“Kooky Tantric” (w/ Robyn)

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Starts Saturday 21st March on ITV1 and ITVX. Ding dong! Lost cultureista's calling. Did you know I was having such a reflective day today because like just going through the uvra. We've had so many formative memories with our guest music. In fact, I remember the very first time I ever even heard about our guest was way way back. And then it feels like truly like throughout the eras, there's always been that moment. Because this is a true defining artist of our time who gives something like every few years comes back out and is like, don't forget. We I surely never have. We dropped acid up state and listened to honey. I told our guests when I met them backstage at Radio City. It was so intimate. By the way, that was not the performance. Oh, my God, it was so amazing. I'll never forget this. Our guest in David Byrne. It was an amazing evening. That was, let's talk about it. I was sitting alone in the green room and then you were like, hi. And I was like, you will like, I can't do this. This is too much. And then I word vomiting and I was like, so I was in a K hole two summers ago. What he holds me was, are you in a grand day? Be all right. And when I got into bed, I got into the car. I was in just looped honey, the album for about like six hours straight. And it saved me. This is not the first time you have been flapper gas. The Dennis celebrity is in front of you. And I was in a K hole and this is like the second or third time I've heard from the of him saying that he doesn't even like frequent ketamine. Don't be concerned. I don't know. Don't be concerned. It's not I don't have it a substance problem. Not a kind of meeting that people with non substance. Yeah. And I have really good news for everyone. She's here. The album is called Sexist Central. That's what I was going to say was the good news. That's the good news. Fuck a app in the words of our guest and driver makes her horny. She reveals this. But we've heard it by the way. Sorry. I know that's going to make you all feel some type of way. But we've heard it and you got away. Our friend has heard it. Gitalentino. Oh, and I'm sure she's because she's writing. She's writing about our guest. Let's just let's just get into it because it is truly an honor for our first guest of the year to be like it to be on. It's beyond one and only, but the one and only. Robin. Come on. I'm so happy to be here. Oh, this is like a joy for us. No, it's a joy for me. Thank you for telling me all these sweet things. My heart's racing. We haven't even been being honest. It could complemented. Complemented. Is that how it's absolutely? Absolutely. Because I could see the face crack when I was telling you about my K-hole. You were like, I don't know what to say to this guy. What's your memory of that? No, I loved it. I thought you were being so vulnerable. Yes. We're often vulnerable here. Our acid trip was also you. I really appreciate it. I know that I'm so happy I could help you out. And I feel the sincerity in that. But it was like, I laugh about it now. But like, I mean, that song is so important. The title track of Honey. And I feel like, I feel like I really admire how you just say, you just took up this space with that album to be, to have the sensuality with your production and your vocal. And then now to understand that you are fulfilling a societal need to like bring us back to the fucking club. Yeah. And like, I want to start this interview by asking, what was this intention, why this album, why start from the ground up, with this song like Dope, I mean, that you've had in the bank for 10 years. Yeah. Well, I mean, I felt like I was on a spaceship, like I'd been floating around in space, totally lost, going through very existential things. And I was crashing back into the atmosphere of the earth and like kind of back into myself. And that's what I wanted it. That was my picture of what the album was going to be, just this feeling of like impact and a dust of emotion, a cloud of emotion just rising up and not having to explain too much and then just letting it settle. And I wanted there to be layers in there. And lots of things for people to come back to and relate to. But also this like very just high impact, strong like force. Yeah. And that's where I was in my life. Yeah. And so that's what came out of my body. I had a son. Yeah, you birthed existential. Also had, yeah, lots of things to write about. Yeah, absolutely. But the album's not about my son. It's about maybe the time before. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I loved about like you recently said that you feel like it's your life's purpose to remain horny. Yes. And to keep driving towards horne-ness. By the way, I deeply feel that I feel it. I think you're amongst friends. And so I would describe the album as a horny little album. I mean, like I think. A horny little slutty album. It's a real slutty album. And I do feel like we do need those reminders, you know, to go out. Because I do think like, I don't know, maybe this is like a boring thing to say because it's so obvious. But we are isolated. We do need reminders to go out and dance and like low-key touch each other. Totally. And you also describe horne-ness as not just about being sex, about being curious. Yes. Exactly about being curious about having the time and space to feel pleasure and to enjoy my life and to have that not have been taken away from me by stress, by politics, by just the world going crazy. Yeah. So it's like it's an active resistance, but it's also just like fun. And how I would want my life to always be if I can. It's a luxury. And no pressure, like if you're not horny, that's okay. That's what I got. But it's not necessarily about sex. Which is kind of like, it's kind of freeing. You know what I mean? Like it's not like we're not putting pressure on anyone to go out there and go crazy. But it's like whatever it means to you is emboldening. Totally. It's like how you approach anything I guess. Be horny for life. Be horny for life. Kind of love that. Horny for life. And every sense, like be horny for the duration of the time you're on this earth. Exactly. And then be, be, have a sexual drive towards like the things in this world as much as you can. Be tantric, like let things like build and feel exciting and not rushed. Yeah. But kind of like pleasurable at the same time. Was tantric like the process? Was that like you in class like being like, let's get like cookie? No, that's a terrible word. No, I like it. Okay. I mean, I don't mean to equate tantric like the tantric with weakness. I'm going to be a whole vibe. I'm going to be a little bit more of a vibe. You know, I'm in twenthinky. Yeah, it's kinky. It's kinky. No, me and Klaus, we're not getting kinky. To be clear. Yes. But we've been, you know, we've been so close for so many years and in this weird way, we don't, what we see each other sometimes in our personal life or like without outside of the studio as well, of course. But, but it's mostly just him and me like just exposing ourselves to each other over and over and over again for like now, what is it? Like 20 years. And having not fallouts, but peers where we don't necessarily want to be with each other and then coming back to it. And we, I think why we get along is also because we have the same work ethic. We like to work a long time on things and make sure we like it. And we don't have a problem with that. And so tantric is definitely a part of it. It's like, we're both okay with it not being comfortable all the time, which I think is also, it has to be that way in order to get to the good stuff. I think you have to be uncomfortable, be able to become uncomfortable with each other. There's a push pull. Yes. Like, it's so interesting that you see that as like part of the tantra of your songwriting, right? I think you were talking recently about how like the songwriting process is not necessarily like fun. No, exactly. It's like, it's really hard and labored and like, you know this. Yeah. Well, sometimes it's like, are you here artists talk about how like, oh, this happened very quickly. And that's how I know it's good. But that's just a certain process that someone might have. So, I mean, usually I'm like, oh, can't be that good. All right. So like, you're like, what's the catch on this song? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Sometimes it happens quickly. Yeah. Like, a couple of like a song that did happen very quickly and maybe you were like, I don't know, but you didn't touch it. And then ultimately it was what it was. Dancing on the ground. I was, I don't know why I spiritually felt like that must have come through like Chana Channeled Way. It was kind of a channeling thing. Yeah. And sometimes it does happen with every happy happen that way too. But I feel like there are like years or at least months of something leading up to that moment. And then sometimes you just click in and you're able to just get it out in one go. Yeah. But then dopamine took 10 years and you know, it's so different every time. Yeah. Yeah. But the, I guess when you're acting, I mean, I think actors and comedians are just so good at it. Maybe sometimes better than musicians because you have to be vulnerable. You have to try things and you have to make yourself like you have to be able to be ugly and we are not those things to get to the thing. Yeah. Right. And sometimes when I get into studio with musicians that are really great but not comfortable with that, it just, it's harder, right? Yeah. Well, with music, I feel like you can take your time to discover. Yeah. Whereas like when you're an actor or a comedian, like you have to like be able to at least perform discovery. Yeah. And so that discover I often feel like it's like it's sometimes better to not look at any lines until right before so that they can feel really fresh. We don't like being prepared. Exactly. I don't want to be prepared ever. I don't know what that is. But like for you, it's like to hear that dopamine took 10 years, it still feels like something that's very like organic. Even if it felt like at times arduous or like you were like, I don't know if that's ever going to come to fruition, but I know I have it in the back pocket. Yeah. It still feels like a new song. Exactly. And to get to that point, like you know, you might have something that is supposed to feel that way. Like you know that there's something in there like we, oh, we could get to this point where it feels totally natural and organic. But it might not start out that way. And then it's like you have to find it as if it was the first time you can't fake it and like pull out the arpeggio baseline one more time and just like slap it on there. Like it has to be created from scratch and really intentionally made again, I think. Right. Was it called dopamine all 10 years? Did the title change? Yeah. No. Well, the title was so good. The chorus was there from the beginning. I mean, there were all these amazing people involved in it too. It was class and tire crews who. Yeah. Wow. tire crews. Yeah. So the chorus is written by tire crews. So I think, you know, it's this thing of deciding like how to deal with like this little gold that you know you have. Where to place it. Wow. Just to like return to dancing on my own first, I can because I feel like on this podcast last culture, it's this. If you're going to be here, we have to give dancing on my own at some moment. And this is why. Because when you, we went to go see you at Barclays and we just talked about this concert on our Rachel Senate episode because it was when we were like recreationally ripping using poppers at the time. And thank God we were because that episode so much. Thank you for listening. Rachel will love that. But I remember like when you played dancing on my own at the show, it was so clear in that moment that that is like the defining anthem for us. Like there's a few songs that feel like that. I would actually call I love it by Charlie X, X and I kind of pop another one of those. When she did that song at the sweat tour, I felt the same way. Whereas afterwards, I remember you just like received for like quite a while all this love that was flying at you from from the audience. And I feel like the question that I feel like, you know, the basic question would be like, when did you realize that this song was that or how does it feel that this song is that? What I want to ask you is what is your dancing on my own? Like what are your defining pop anthems? Like I want to know. Well, I mean, glory will be purple rain. Yes. It's our purple rain keep going. Oh wow. It's, but it didn't, I hope you could feel that because it was true. I mean, it's a release. Wow. I mean, if it makes you feel that way, then I'm super happy. I think purple rain has this like also this tantric thing, right? You want to come back to it and you want to feel the thing again. And I think small town boy with front. Oh my god. Wow. When he goes into that high note in the beginning, you want to cry. Yes. And I get this sense and let me, I'm guessing here, but I think probably were you a Whitney fan? Yes. I feel like there's like her, her, her, her, and that makes. But also Mariah. Mariah is the best. You know, a lot of Mariah when I was 12. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, he, he, he, he, I'm not trying to hit those high notes. Yeah. Right. She didn't never happen. Do you have a favorite Mariah? Mm. It's a hard one to say. You know, which my favorite Mariah is, but that's just because I love the original song as well as I can't live if living as well. Oh my god. That's what it is. She really just, that was already a brilliant song, but she just made it something else. Yeah. It was amazing when I came with it with the live MTV sessions. Yeah. With her hair and, oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's the queen of like, oh, I know you know this song in one way and I'm going to live. Just rip it up. Yeah. Like the other day that there was on, on my algorithm, I was scrolling by and there was this unbelievable video of Mariah and Whitney recording when you believe. All right. From the Prince of Egypt and it was just exactly exactly. Exactly. But also the way Mariah handed her whole thing and like how funny she is and you know, the intelligence of her is really entertaining. Yes. I mean, is it fair to say that you are, I love that, I love that you do this. There's a track on, it's like the central blow my mind, which is like, it is like you covering yourself, but it's just a redux of a track of the same title. Mm-hmm. It was the third album, right? Yes. Yes. It's true. And like I talk about that because it's truly, it's especially feel listen to both those songs back to back. You're like, oh my god, this is just such a trip and like this is sort of recontextualized now. I don't want to give it totally away. But like that is such a cool like refracting of like your old work, old quote unquote is in like, past work into something that feels. Again, like extremely current. Mm-hmm. That makes me very happy. I mean, I always loved the song. It was on an album that I released before I started my label. So it was in this kind of forgotten category and it was never really a single. And I think it's a brilliant song in me. And also what happens when you have a kid is you just don't have that much time. I don't want to say that's the reason, but I was like looking back at me because I had all these other old songs for the album. So I was like, oh, this might be the time where I get to do a cover of my own song. Oh. And I always wanted to. And then we rewrote it so that it's about the present time. Now it's more about cutigression, I think. Yeah. When you love someone so much, you want to hurt them. Yeah, like the Yavitan Trump towards them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to eat your baby? Yeah. No, there's a thing where like people want to like eat where you asked you want to eat your baby. Yeah, so when he eats his cheeks, I know his butt cheeks too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always want to eat the baby's leg and foot. Yeah, like every part like Joey. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. This cannibalism is like totally innocent. It goes away as the baby gets older. Does it though? That's up to you. Let us know. I hear from people that doesn't like it's still like you want to do it to your 20 year old, but it's. Yeah. How old is your baby soon to be four soon to be four. Okay. So this was like soon to be four. So this was four years ago. I wonder because you just collaborated last year with Charlie XC X. So I'm not sure when you did the 360 remix. Yeah, it was it was right before the album. Her album was released. It was like six months before. Yeah. And the summer before it was released and she was in Sweden and she she texted me and she was like I want to do this remix with you and Jonathan with young lean and I just thought it was like the best idea ever. It's so sick. And of course it came from her because she's brilliant and you know, had no idea what she was doing. We hadn't been touched for a while and I just thought with crash, she was just you could tell she was getting into her zone. She was like she was ramping up this like perfect storm of emotion and like expression and she was so sure of herself. And I was like, yeah, I just want to hear what you're doing and she played some stuff. She said, oh, I think it's about, you know, I think the album is just about female relationships and how, you know, how complicated it is. And I was like, that's so interesting. And I think she wanted us to write something and I was just like, I didn't even know how to put myself in that position because I just love her so much. Like I could never even like think about how to find like a conflict. Right. Like I was trying to get into it and then we did the remix as well and we wrote some other things and it was so fun to talk to her and have like some time with her before it all happened and to see her in that moment. I feel like you guys must have like so much in common that very few people have in common too. When the reason why I ask about like when your son or you're like, you know, was born, like she talks so much, she rumenates so much on that idea as well. So I wonder like what you were thinking when you heard that. She totally inspired me to go to be personal, to be more personal than I had ever been with my own lyrics and to be specific to not shy away from being very defined about what it is you want to say. Yeah. I think the subject matter was already there, but just kind of like how she approached it and how she was so vulnerable and tough at the same time. Yeah. It's true. We always I think connected on that. And I think with Jonathan as well, like we have that experience of being like, you know, just doing it on like different levels and in different worlds from like a very young age. Right. And it's funny. For me, it's it's it's beautiful because I don't really know if I've shared that experience with people artists my own age, I feel like I can relate to Charlie and like hard generation in a different way than my own. It's clarifying if it's coming from, you know, something that is a little bit outside of yourself. Yeah. And some level like layer of remove there where you're like, Oh, she's rooming on parenthood in this very deep, vulnerable way on her music. I can also be a reverent in the way that she's a reverent. I feel like sexist, gentle, title track. Definitely. It's just it's an id. It's it's so funny. It's like you like you even have this moment where it's like your doctor confused as Adam driver for Adam. Sam Ler. And God, yes, you got it. It's so it's so but let's like that is um. It's a true story. It's a true story. I feel like you you haven't been this funny since Robin since the first Indie since the first Quenichiwa records album. Yeah, it's true or silly or silly. I think both. Yes. Silly funny cookie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tantra. You know what I mean? I'm so happy that you feel the way because I I wanted it to be that way. Yeah. And I told class I was like we have to write a rap about IVF and he was like, oh. He was like, now let me look up what that means. Yeah. Exactly. No, but actually he's one of those really um equal like Swedish man. He's been at home with his kids. Yeah. So so he he can relate. Yeah. I think. But maybe not to the IVF part. Of course. The sexist and show was like the you know, it's like the joke title of the album for a really long time. And then I was like, that was just going to be sexist and show. And then I was like, we have to write a song called sexist and show. Oh, yeah. How it came true. And it was like the last song we did. So it was like a very free space where you know, we could go deep into the things that we had already been talking about. Right. I think it's one of a standout. It's one of the standouts. But then like the word sexist and it gets littered and other like and blow my mind. Yeah. Or in talk to me, I think. I love talking. I mean, is that the official second single? Yes. Love it. Great choice. It's going to come. Oh, it's going to come soon. Well, it was that today. It's not today. It's not today. So this is coming out a week from today. So it's been out a week. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's out already. I want to ask how many songs is Max Martin on on this? On two? Two. Yeah. So that must be a very long relationship. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But that's the longest one. But very sporadic in the sense that we've only really worked together on three four songs, like two on my first album, one on the body talk, release, and then two now five songs. Yeah. Max Martin is a very sincere, very smart and sensitive person. He always gets depicted as this machine, who has a strategy, and you know, is like almost like a robot. In a way, it is like working with AI because it's so fast. Right. And I think that's like that is the inhuman kind of thing about him that it's not it's so like the problems like solving is so quick. Right. It was his math. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it's not a it's not a formula. It's like real sense of melody and like experience. It's experience. Exactly. And you know, him and Klaus went to the same class in the same music school. Wow. Yeah. In Sweden. So then so they get me this. I feel like. You know, you are such a part of Max's story. Mm-hmm. And like, I think that is, I don't know, I think that must be a really interesting thing to like just track mutually your your your your pathways like in this business that has changed so much. You know, when I came here, I was like, oh my god, this kind of building and this kind of like office hallway and my hair today and the mint is very what it was like I was coming back into like a record company building. Oh, wow. Wow. And I was like, you know, well, we are a and R and we are going to we are we are this is a signing meeting for us. We're interested in you. Can you get a little tang member? Yeah. Probably. Yeah. We all love a good meal, but there's no feeling quite like cooking one, whether it's everyone at yours for a Sunday roast or after school, sausage and mash. Quick, simple, gone in minutes. One thing brings it all together. Oh, this the original gravy rich, smooth and unmistakable since 1908 when the gravy makes the dish make the gravy. Oh, this. I feel like the story of Max Martin is obviously understanding pop music and creating pop music as we know it today in many ways, but also understanding artists like what he gets from and what he's able to channel from someone like Taylor and someone like Ariana, you know, go over this is just recent and you throughout the years, like I feel like he really helps to not define artists because artists define themselves, but hone in and make specific and therefore, like sometimes even make funny what an artist can do because they have like a bit that they can come keep coming back to. You know what I mean? Like that's I guess where like the reheating your own nachos comes from one people saying about certain people. It's like, no, this is just my style. Yeah. It just happens to be like the biggest one over the other one that's like dominated all the charts. Exactly. But it is actually really personal and yeah, I got to meet him once. Yeah. How's that? It was so interesting because it's like you're saying like I was expecting this like larger than life like very methodical precise person. But he's lovely. But we went to go see Spamalant with Ari. Yeah. And he's just like easy going wonderful nice kinds like chill person and I was like, this is and I didn't say this to him, but I was just like this is it's like you're said, it's like it's not what his portrayal is as like this prolific songwriter and hit maker. It's like, oh, he's he's a not to produce it, but he's a guy. He's a guy. Not totally. And then in a great way, he's a guy. Yeah. And he's because he actually has something like almost like grace. Yes. He has grace. Like he will go deeper and like find the like you're saying like the real meaning behind that artist and what they're trying to say. And he will go for like the the higher kind of round, I think. Yeah. And he kind of has, you know, he has good morals. He hired a new really amazing, beautiful female producers like Elbira who worked on Alison Ray and you know, he's like making good decisions with his legacy. Yeah. But then he's also, you know, when I worked with him the first time like he was this young person who was just so ambitious and really wanted to win. That's also a part of it. And he is obsessed with statistics and he will like, you know, he is it's amazing to see someone with that much success and it doesn't like, he really goes at it as if he's trying to win like the first time. It's not an ordinary job. Yeah, it's really amazing. Hungry. Yeah, hungry. So yeah. I mean, the deeper meaning behind the way he finds deeper meaning like I feel like you have a sense of what your deeper meaning is you don't have to share it with us. But I feel like it's so interesting that you've in the past that things about like, oh, I wanted them to sort of have an inflection point after dancing on my own. I didn't want to be known as like the heartbreak musician necessarily. Yeah. And I, and you said recently, I think on Zane, low, you're like nostalgia is like a perilous thing. Yeah. Like a lethal thing. But I, but I loved about the Brooklyn Paramounts at least. Settless was that like it just woven like your full discography. So beautiful. And then you sang, show me love for the first time in like, like 10 years. The great experience of it too. So it's like, so it's like, I wonder like what your relationship is now to like the way you not nostalgia, but the way you look back on your own work. I look up back on the first album and maybe the second one as well, which is like a lot of sympathy and love for, you know, the situation I was in. It was, you were young. It was insane. Yeah. Like it was really trippy to come from Sweden into the culture that I thought I knew because I grew up growing up with it and then realizing how lost in translation you are sometimes. Yeah. And in America, especially if you don't know the culture. Right. And just little things like how America is very divided, I think, between like children and grownups. And I was still a teenager and just finding myself like in this very kind of, you know, you're in the kind of a separated world. Right. In a very adult industry. In a very adult in the 90s. Yeah. And there was nothing. No one was, no one even would know how to ask if you were okay. There was no me too. Exactly. And I was like, yeah, I would say that, you know, being a pop star at teenage pop star is like a lethal, it's a lethal situation and it can really get you. Well, yeah. And I, but I was prepared in the sense that, you know, safe, havin' back home and I don't know, what was the question? The question was, how do you, but this is actually dovetails perfectly into something else that I want to ask you about. And then we'll ask you the question. And then we'll ask you the question. And then we'll ask you on the style, yeah. As a perilous thing. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I was saying. I think nostalgia is dangerous, yeah. But I think, you know, playing show me love isn't the style, I mean, of course, it's nostalgic, but in the good sense that there's something that's real and that's a part of people's lives. And that's not for me to have any opinion about, you know, and I love the song. Right. And you're not singing it as the teenage version of you. You're singing it as you now and therefore it's a different song in a way. Did that speak to the choice to arrange it the way you did? Yes. Because it brings out the softness of it and the beautiful melody and you can hear what's there that's maybe timeless or whatever. Yes. I think what makes Nostalgia lethal, as you're saying, is that it is treating the past as aspirational. Yes. Exactly. That's never what you want to be. It's a delusion also. I think. Oh, we got to go back to this better time. I think that's over. Depressing. Yeah. I'm sorry to make it about this. It's like a fascist idea. We got to go back to the way things were. Oh, that's so true. You already know this deep down. The thing I want to do to you is I think you maybe don't get enough credit for inventing the notion of an independent pop star. I think going and making your own label or just putting out your music, your own way, now it's like indie pop is such a thing, right? Yeah. But I feel like you don't get enough credit for that. That you really modeled this thing. Even for someone like Charlie who knows, oh, I'm going to do one for me and one for them. And the one for me thing is the thing that brought her most success I would argue with Brad. Totally. That was supposed to break away from crash, where she was like, you know, I'm going to break away from crash, where she was like, you know, fulfilling the contract for the label, doing like what a pop traditional pop star album would look like. But I feel like you've kind of blueprinted out this thing for a lot of people, which is like you can do it on your own terms. Yes. And I feel like I hope you get that sense now as we're like all coming together once again to like celebrate Robin. Oh, thank you. That it comes your way. I love her taking it in. Thank you. Are you ever surprised when a certain artist like who's a because I feel like Gracie Abrams is like when you listen to her music, like it's a totally different genre than you might think. But she was it she that invited you to perform with her? Yes, she did. Was that where was this glass? The Mary. No, it was Chicago. Oh, yes, yes. That's the big, a lot of a loser. A lot of a loser. That's what it was. No, she invited me and and she was so sweet. Yeah. She's the best. I got to do dance gone out all night. You know, anyone that gives me that love, it's like, it's a big compliment. It's always amazing. Well, we would like to ask you the central question of our podcast. So and I bet you are the answer to this question for many people. But Robin, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you, this defining, whether it's pop culture at large, movie, song, a specific moment, something in the environment that you can look back and say, I'm probably me doing large part to that. I think I have to say Buffalo stands with an inner cherry. Wow. You know, being like 10 years old and then hearing raw likes a she for the first time. Uh huh. I remember it was like summer break. I was playing cards with my friends in the country house and we were just playing this album over and over again. And we all knew that she was Swedish. Yeah. And and that her real last name is Carlson. Yeah. It's like you are. And I was just like, that's amazing. If she's Swedish, I can also be that way. Yeah. Like this kind of really sexy and powerful, playful energy. And it was pop music and it was made from me. It was not made from my parents. It was for for a new generation. It was mixing and it was undefined away. It was like New York and Sweden and London and there was inner language as well and and the things that she was saying. So empowering. Yeah. And vulnerable. Just man child like being so critical about like toxic masculinity, but also saying like no money man can be my love. Yeah. And speaking to ideas that had not been spoken to in pop music or maybe even music at large. Yeah. Like it just didn't feel like we this was area we had tried before. When I think about Sweden, I think when a lot of people think about Sweden, I've only been once to Stockholm, but I went to like the museum of pop music and it's really an Abba and Eurovision museum. Yeah. But is the culture like you mentioned obviously this song and this this album, but is the pop music culture as long as you can remember? Was it that thick in the air like it like the way that like they say LA is Hollywood and you know, this like people have their industries like is it very thick in the air like the pop music thing. I think it is now. I don't think it was right. I was little. I think we were still a very, you know, I don't know what this word will mean to people here, but like it was, you know, Sweden and the old days. So there were only two, three TV channels. Wow. You know, we had maybe four radio stations, no commercial radio yet. No way to find like American music. You have to go to the store for import CLPs or cities like it was not easy to be concerned or into popular culture. Yeah. When I was a teenager, you really had to work for it. So in that sense, no. But then when I started working, which was so early, I, you know, all the people that I was working with was, you know, maybe 20 or like it's sometimes even 30 years older than me. And then, you know, I got in touch with, you know, like a more connected part of Stockholm, which was like, you, I don't know, like you want to rank and you know, it's Auckland and these like more commercial directors that had been traveling and working outside of Sweden and the cardigans and, you know, all these other like, Swedes that were connected to the outside world. But nobody, my age had that network. It was much later that it happened for like my generation. But now I think there's so many young musicians and artists in Sweden that really feel supported by the legacy of the music. And of course, like Abba is, you know, the year zero, year one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then kind of, you know, Max Martin of course. And all these producers that are now creating popular culture all over the world, it's like, I guess we're like the third or fourth biggest music export country in the world. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I feel like it's always like, whenever you heard an artist went to Sweden, you're like, oh, here we go. Here we go. Where did she go? Yeah. She was spotted where? Like I remember it's like, it's like, I remember years ago, like Kelly Clarkson, they were putting her second album together and they felt like she didn't have a full album. So they sent her to Sweden. They sent her to Max. And then she had since you've been gone. Right. And it does feel like there's a song. Since you've been gone the best. Yeah, that's like one of those. Yeah. It's like one of the ones that will last and it feels like Max does hand you that every few years or more. Totally. He still does. Yeah. Yeah. And he's still into the songwriting. He's not producing that much anymore. He'll leave it to the younger producers, but he's like in there and still writes a lot. I feel like a lot of people don't really realize how it works. Like what a real producer really does. You know what I mean? When you have a concept or an idea or a strong urge and you go to Max, like there, what exactly is that? What happens then? I mean, it's different every time, but this time it was I had this beginning of a song we talked to me and me and Oscar worked on it a little bit and then started producing it together and then Max came in and did his thing. And heard what I was thinking for the course and he was like, yes, you should go there. And then he kind of left me with this riddle. He was like, but just think about this court and that kind of transition melodic leitata tata and he just left and then I solved it when he was away because of the instruction he gave me. Right. This kind of like, I don't know, Andy Warhol way of working. I always think. You know, like he will see it and he'll give instructions. Sometimes he will write as well. He wrote things on the other song we did and on, on, talked to me as well, but, but it's very, very smart. It's very intelligent, very, very good. So when we talk about producing, really, I think a better way to explain it for people that don't really get it is and really what they're doing is directing you, right? Like he gets a lot of credit as like an amazing vocal producer because of the ways in which he's brought new vocal stuff out of artists. He certainly did with a like you can actually mark like you can see like there was someone like Arianna says, I think with break free or was that said? I was like, but like what he did was he was like, I really need the straight tone singing for this kind of song. Oh, yeah. It's like working with the producer as like a vocal director. Oh, yeah, he did. I know he gave Ari that direction. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's first I think people don't realize that it's like that's what that job is. The way Britney sings on the first album is really like her singing like the way Max wants her to. Yeah, that kind of cool. I mean, I'm a huge amazing singer, but like he did the demos like the baby, but like all the demos are him doing that. It's really, yeah, it's right. He's very into the sounds of things to it. It doesn't really. It might not be about the word is might or be about the vocal or like the the vowel. Yeah. The consonant hits, but I think with him, it's more, it's still songwriting is still concept, but it's more conceptual now. But a lot of producers are, you know, a producer is still like the person who's making the sound on the record. And I think that's also what he used to do. Yeah, right. Just now he's like a little bit bird's view. Yeah, more executive, I guess. Yeah. But I feel like you, I feel like your voice is so precise. So it's what I've always loved about the quality and the timbre is that it's clean isn't the right word. It's just, it's just, it's perfectly matched with like a Swedish sensibility in a way of like making music, which is that it's like right on target. And one of my favorite episodes of song splitter is your episode about honey. Yeah. Where you do like, it's like the initial like track of it was on the girl's episode. And then the evolution of it, just the way it becomes just this warm, expansive song is so beautiful. And I feel like the way that you are, the way that you're occupying all this range between like a warmth and then like a dryness and dopamine where you're like, we're just singing about, we're building from the ground up this, this idea that like it's just a chemical thing. Yeah. You know, like that is, I think those are the perfect bookends for me like in the recent discography. So anyway, that's great. I think both of those songs, both dopamine and honey, what they do have is they have a lot of rhythm in the words. They throb. There's a lot of like conversational lyrics and conversational like almost like talking singing in them. And I really enjoy that. I still get lost in honey. I will put honey on a flight. Yes. And I will, it feels like I'm taking a bath. Yes. I'll sleep to it and then I'll come back. I'll wake up again and I'll fall back asleep. Perfect. It's, it's, I, for years, I've done this. It's kind of like that's perfect because the feeling, you know, when you have a nap in the day, yes, when you're like in that in between state and your body feels weightless. Yeah. That was what I was trying to find when I was writing it because I was in a kind of bad state myself. Oh. Okay, hold. No, you don't have to tell us. Not like a very long one. Like a depression. It's just a depression. Depression, depression, depression. Like a depression. And I was trying to find my, my, my, so actually, yeah, like in a way, like find my way out of a bad spot. Yes. And I couldn't see it. So I had to kind of like create it. Yep. So I'm really happy to hear that that still happens for you because it happens actually for me too. And we play it like now. I'm like, wow, it feels really good. Is it your favorite? Is it the one that you play where you're like, I think this song is my favorite one? I think I were feeling myself. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Totally. Yeah, I feel like that's, that's got to be true. Yeah. I'm proud of that. Sometimes like it, you must listen back and be like, I'm really, I'm Robin. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not going to agree with that. I feel that, that feels cheesy. But yeah, it's a good song. Yeah. Did you love playing the Brooklyn Paramount? What a cool space that is. I love playing New York. I must have been, yeah, New York is the best. I just love playing here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brooklyn Paramount. Flanted, banked, floor. So it's a good view for everybody. Yeah. So it's a good view for everybody, even in the back. Yes. And the sound is good. Yeah. The sound is good, although they need to, you know, fix their fire alarm thing. Oh, wait, was it going off? Did something go off? Yes. No. I'm happy you said it. First song. Now they will. Two minutes in. We were like, in the peak of missing you. Fuck. And then like all sound disappears. And they just had to go off stage for like 10 minutes. But then we came back on like, and we did it so that we started right where we ended. Oh, nice. So it was like right in the middle. It's like, zzzz. We came back on. It was like, rrrr. Oh, it was a good, it was a good, yeah, turn out. The building next door did, said, I'm, did, did burn down that. That's a fire alarm, was real. Sorry. Wait, this is a weird question. But what's your relationship to adrenaline? Oh, well, adrenaline is like necessary evil, I think. I'm so used to it because it's being nervous, right? Yeah. You said nervous. Yeah, I still get nervous, but I can define it more now as an adrenaline rush. And I know I recognize it. And when you do, when you go on stage, you, I mean, you both know how that feels. When you do something over and over again, you, you, after a little bit at least, you get used to. Yeah. If you, if you stay on it, you, you get used to that feeling and you can kind of handle that. Yeah, yeah. And use it and write it. Yeah. I almost asked it because I feel there's so much adrenaline in your music. And there's so much like, you know, tension, but release of tension. And that's like, speaks directly to adrenaline. Yeah. And so I was like, looking at you and I was like, I wonder if she's ever jumped out of a plane. I would never jump out of a plane. So that's what I'm saying. No, like I'm not a adrenaline. Jo, Jo, yeah. Yeah. Definitely dopamine, but that's so nice. It's nice. Adrenaline is not so nice. You're right. But they speak to each other. They, they come always hand in hand. Yeah. Like little friends coming together. Exactly. I think adrenaline is like, maybe like that's a really cool thing to do a bit, a bit of blocker, because you can kind of, then you can experience where you're supposed to land after the adrenaline. Right. And I think like handling that first, you know, five minutes of the show is about just managing the adrenaline until it's like until you're settled in. Exactly. And just kind of imagining that place, because if you go on the adrenaline, you'll just start doing. Yes, it feels good to go with the energy, but usually that's when you like, like screaming a little bit too much. You're not in control of it. Yeah. And it's, you know, you're in your instrument because it got out of hand. Yes. And also what happens in a band, I don't know if it's the same thing with other people when you're doing comedy, it's like you, when you go to hard, it's like you lose each other. Yes, yes, yes. And if everyone pulls back, it's like you can hear each other. And then there's like a good feedback loop instead of like the crazy one. Yeah. Like we got to manage this thing that's like a little bit outlying and we have, we got to pull back down or something totally. I mean, I feel like, I feel like the awareness of it though is the helpful thing. And that's like, even like you writing a song called Dopey. The reason I asked if it was still called that 10 years ago is because I feel like the word has a new sort of like balance to it. It got really invoked for us. It's like over the past like few years, which is so excited about that. I was just so like, wow, this word, I can feel it. It's like so relevant. It's not the right word. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I felt that 10 years ago and that's why I held on to it. And I, you know, I don't know if it's not so good for the world that we're still in that space. But I think we are because of social media. And I think, you know, the Dope I mean hits that we're getting. Everyone is more aware of what addiction is now, which I think is a great thing. But it's also because everyone has to be aware of it because everyone is addicted. Yeah. And so yeah, the song is more relevant now than it was 10 years ago, which is cool. That's really cool. No, I do think so because when I listen to that song, I go, yes, it is like demystifying this thing. And it demystifies even the addiction of like being on our phones. Whereas I think there is this like bigger movement now of just everybody kind of being like, oh, let's put that in another room. I put the phone in like the closet. Yeah. Like it's not in my bedroom anymore. And I'm like the last person to do. I mean, like, no, you're not. You're a pioneer of this. I know. People do not sleep with the phone on the other room, even if they're saying. That's true. I can't. Now it's like, it's dangerous. I feel it's like my body is red. Like the adrenaline kicks in where I'm like, I got to put this away. But I hope you don't feel this way by falling in love. Oh, no, that's so sweet. I don't think he does. No, no. Oh, that's so nice. What makes you ask that? Because I think there's almost this like, at least on my feed, there's this like a version to falling in love. You think it's because you think it's because of something societal? Or do you think people are just like something societal where we're like afraid of losing control. We're like always decoding our physical responses to. It's like we're not taking it seriously because it's just a chemical substance. It's just this chain reaction in our body and like being in love is stupid or, you know, it's also hard. I mean, like that's, I think that's another part of it is it's like we are increasingly living in a time when things can be really easy. And relationships and love is never going to be easy. It's easy to just write it off. Yeah, you can't cheat it. There's like a decline in the feeling of awe. You know what I mean? And I truly, I truly, I feel that whenever I listen to you, but I think when we went to the Barclays show in 2019, I certainly felt that poppers notwithstanding. Like the poppers are the problem. Like when like the curtain drops in the honey show, was the curtain to veil? Like that's like an, I'll never forget that. Like that's awe. I'm like, oh my god, I'm experiencing this with a bunch of other people. And I do want to say this before we go to, I don't think so, honey. Like I think there's something a little bit, I know we all love nightlife here and like going out and going to the club. Yeah. Something about the club is a little like, it's not totally clicking right now because everyone's there for a different reason. Either you're there to listen to music or to connect your fans or you're there to like, fuck, and that's okay too. Or you're there to do drugs and that's fine too. But it's just that we're all there for different, like the organizing principle there is a little bit scattered. And like, I don't know because I don't go out anymore. No problem. That's just how it is now where I'm like, oh, like yeah, like I've been out like a few times last couple months. And like they've been five and there's no, there's there's there hasn't been like a sublime thing of like, oh my god, I had the best night out dancing. And that's very much attainable and that happens all the time. But I will say going to a concert, everyone's there for more like, oh it's true. We have a mission. We have a mission where they're to enjoy a performance. Right. And then we all leave going like that was amazing. Wow, that's great. You know, that is cool about going to live shows. I agree. So do you still go to live shows? I do. I love going to live shows. What are, can you talk about something that have been like? Well, I wish I could give you like five examples, but I'm just, I'm a single working mom. Yeah, first. But, Damachan, but I went to see Katriya Limpakama Rosso. Do you know that? No, check that out. Yes, you should. That was amazing. Yeah. Very all over the place, but that's their thing. Yeah, good. That's like the only thing I've seen lately. Yeah, but I recommend it. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah. No, that's a little source. We will source. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a little source. Yeah. It's time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You always get to be generous with that. Yes. Are you active on Instagram? I am, yeah. Are you on a lot of gay guys close friends? Yes. I bet you are. That happens. Yes. You're seeing a lot of like me or selfies. Anise. Anise. Yeah, of course. What they allow on close friends, my boy. It's the bad department we all have in common. Wow. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Every poops. Yes. It's actually Rulaculture number six. We all have an anise and common. Mm-hmm. That's a pluralist. That's a pluralist. That's a pluralist I don't want to see. If that isn't a pluralist, I don't know what it is. but I guess hide that one close friend story for me. Do you want me to still be here? No, make a break. No, that that that that that we already knew you were thirsty. Now you are being thirsty for this answer? Please. We just want to give that a thought. But if you are trying to be respectful, that's good too. Yeah. This is Bowen Yang's, I don't think so, honey, his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Having sex with the lights off, turn them on, show me. I can't see. I want to see. It's not about, no need to be self-conscious. We're already at that stage. There's no need to be shy. Totally. Let's just trust me. I'm into it. Even if it's not that great, it's still, bad sex is still pretty good. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to, I'm not saying blast it like this. Thirty seconds. Doesn't have to be overhead. Can be a little bit ambi, can be a little, you know, night light there, little. Totally. Little yeah. It can't be like inertia's off it. The doctor's off it. I'm not saying, keep it, I'm not saying clinical. I'm just saying like, I want to see a little bit. I want to see it off. I want to see it off. Fifteen seconds. Yeah. You know, having sex with the lights off, I get that it's a preference for some. I want to be able to grow up around in the light. Five seconds. Totally. And that way we're just, we're setting ourselves up for success for some accuracy and precision. And that's one minute. I couldn't agree with you more about Yang. I also feel like, you know, you're there to have sex with that person. You're not there to have sex with the idea of a human form. A mound. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I just think seeing it is very sexy. Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. This is Robbins. I don't think so, honey. All right. This is going to rip. I know it. Robbins time starts now. Okay. I don't think so, honey. Well, I always hated Elon Musk. You know, I always hated him. Same before it was like cool to hate him. Yes. Yes. Because it was a time where there wasn't cool to hate him. But you know what I'm, I don't know, man. I didn't think about him that much at least. Right. For me, I started hating him when he put a Tesla into space with a David Bowie song on it. He actually shot a car into space. As if there wasn't like enough shit floating around. Exactly. 30 seconds. Okay. So this is the thing. I think there should be democracy in space. Yeah. There should be democracy on earth too. Yes. Yes. Which we really maybe don't even have at the moment. But the fact that anyone or any like commercial company can decide what to do with like natural resources and also do tacky things. Tacky. Yeah. Like sending a stupid fucking car into space. Five seconds. Also dangerous for people like think about the astronauts that are like up there in like the International Space Station and they don't really know what's going to hit them or whatever. Like I just think it's like, can we all just like have a vote on whoever gets to do anything? Yeah. And that's when men but keep going. Because I honestly like I so agree almost everything he does now makes my skin crawl. Yeah. And what really bugs me like it was just a core thing of what you said is when any old person thinks that just because a song is out there and you could you could stream it or buy it that you can use it for your. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that he like the best song in the world and he put it on his just to sell cars. What was the song? Was it like fun Mars? It was space. Obviously. Oh, space out of it. Okay. No, that's not what he was talking about. Whatever you think. No. No. I exactly. Whatever you think you can't talk about even. No, exactly. He was turning his grave. You're right. It's not safe for the people who are up there. You're an astronaut doing working your whole life to be an astronaut. Yeah. All of a sudden a fucking model. Why comes barreling towards you? Exactly. With an iPad for a fucking dashboard. You know, no way. No way. What's the name? I didn't know he did that. What's the name of what? He's just done so many other things. What's the name of an amazing movie with brown, beautiful woman? It's lost in space. She's twirling around. Oh, gravity. You know, Sandra Bullock and Brown Beautiful Woman. And we're rolling the movie. It was like, it's like, it's like, fake darling like a David Bowie song. Yeah. That movie is truly amazing. It's amazing. She is so brilliant in that. But I also think we should hit on Jeff Bezos. I mean, we're like, let's do it. He also did that. He went up to space, up in space. And then he came down and he put out on whatever social media who's like, now I realize that we really have to protect this beautiful pearl in the universe. I'm like, okay, so you had to like destroy the human race. Yep. Like, destroy the environment. That too late to tell. Go up so that we all can have you realize this thing that everyone else understands. Like nobody else had to do that to get that this is important. Now that I've cut off my leg, I realize it'd be better to have two. Yeah. It's like, shut up. But also it's not your leg. It's everybody's leg. It's everybody's leg. Oh, my God. It's the one leg we share. All these, all these guys are missing something. Yeah. The line of billionaires that was behind Trump when he was inaugurated. Yeah. They're all, they're all without. Yes. They are without. They are without and everything. I think that there are so many people who are without in some way, not necessarily the way they are without. I do believe they're without souls and also like, like a function that like an empath, empathetic function. But I think that there is an idea that that is in some way aspirational because it's a, it's a, it helps you be the best capitalist. If you don't care, then you're going to be the most successful because you didn't care to begin with. So you're not going to have any checkpoints. Well, they don't and you might find that you might have stand that person, but suddenly you're realizing, oh, wait, you do have an emotional checkpoint and that's good, but you are too late. You are too late. And it is fucked up and you should feel bad. And it's okay that people feel bad. Yeah. I will also say that. And being like, I have buyers remorse with the Trump thing. I used to stand ill on now. I don't know. Feel bad. Feel bad. It's fine. It's fine. Um, this is just to revive what have Matt's old catch races, which was, um, precious one, you're without. Precious one, you are without you are without. It's a way to give empathy, but let people know that they're lacking precious one, you are without who's not locking is our guest or us now that we're going to have a new album soon. And all your work, which is so important to us and so important to anyone who loves music. I'm telling you like, it's just so cool for us to be able to say that we have platform that you would want to come hang out with us on. Like it's truly one of the moments of the podcast that we're like, I can't believe that it's come this far. You're just the best. I love you guys. I love you for having me on here. I listen to you all the time. That's so why I'm so happy that you're saying all of this to my face. Yeah, we love you. Love you, Robin. Okay, we end every episode with a song. And if you do me right, I'm going to do it right by you. And you keep it. Hey, I'm going to come by to you. I mean, it's all you want to be done for that too. That's our key. No, I don't know. My key was that weird. That was great. It was great. It was great. It was driving me for my key. No, it was great key. I just, it was too high for me. So it was raw. I was raw. Bye. Bye. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.