35.06 - MU Podcast - The Mysteries of Kurupira

Welcome to the show Welcome to Mysterious Universe, season 35, episode number 6. On today's show, we explore an unexplored land, a forgotten, forbidden, lost world to outsiders reported to be inhabited by strange beasts out of time. I am your host, Brandon Thomas, and with me, as always, is Joe with the Flow Hodgdon. How are you, bud? Good, man. You ready to do this today? I'm so ready to do this. This one I've very much been looking forward to. And I've just got to shout out the author here. He's just a buddy, honestly. I met him in the old show, got him on for his The Last Dinosaur of the Lost World, My Search for Little Nessie. And we are talking, of course, about Ben Tejada Ingram. Very cool author. He writes on CryptoZooWoo, Mysterious Lands, Amazing Explorers. he is the one that introduced us to uh jose miguel perez gomez who's this incredibly cool venezuelan adventurer he actually and i have a copy of it here i picked up a few when this came out so i'll send you one joe he's in national geographic history and this was uh january february of 2025 for his discovery of this incredibly cool artwork that leads this trail through the Venezuelan wilderness in this really amazing, beautiful, but highly dangerous area. Yeah, I'm stoked that we're finally covering this one because he sent me a copy of it a couple months ago, and we told him we'd cover it, and now we're in the swing of things and we can finally get to it. And just a great guy. I've got a chance to talk to him a couple times and a fellow Plus subscriber too. So shout out Ben. He is. He's so cool. I called him when we got the gig, and he's just so badass. And, you know, the Aussies have covered him. Mysterious Universe Season 30, Episode 1, The Dinosaur of the Lost World, which is going to be the top link in the show description. So that you guys can go back and check that out for our Plus subscribers who have access to the back catalog there. Go check it out. It's a banger, of course. And we're grateful to continue presenting the work of this incredible author on this legacy platform here. so legends speak of not one but several bizarre and terrifying creatures that haunt the ancient plateaus of the south american wilderness the mysteries of kuru pira the land of unknown creatures that inspired conan doyle's lost world by ben tejada ingram is linked in the show description now ben's work of course like we talked about amazing he has the lands forgotten by time, which of course we will absolutely cover more of this young man's work. He just does a great job. Again, Jose Miguel Perez Gomez is amazing explorer. He is going to be linked in the show description as well so that you guys can learn a little bit more about him because he is fascinating. This dude invented a home gym system in Venezuela. He started giving it out to his neighbors because it's just this banger mount on the wall. It's like one of the most efficient things ever made. He then patents it, licenses it as a side thing to his exploring just for helicopter fuel so that he can put gas in a helicopter and fly it out and go explore. He created this whole sub company and it's highly successful. And he's jacked too. He's like the, he really is the South American Indiana Jones dude. He's amazing. Dude, what a life. That'd be great to get paid to go do that. Where is this place that, And I keep saying it wrong. Kuru Pira? No, you nailed it. That's it. Kuru Pira. This is an actual place. I'm sure you'll get into it, but I was just wondering from my own curiosity. It's a great question, and let's absolutely get into it. So the deal with it is it's roughly a place and a creature of the forest, the spirit of the forest. So it's both. It's this mythological creature and the creature's home, which are both – they both share the same name, which has been changed. The spelling of it's been changed. A lot of obfuscation in this whole process as well, just unraveling this mystery that Ben did. Interesting. And you'll have those pictures you were showing me earlier in the notes? We are going to have it in the book. Ben included them in the book. And so I'm going to link to the book. These are his work. So I'm going to show you while I'm presenting to you some of the maps. And I highly recommend, guys, that you pick this up. It's linked down in the show description. Kura, or damn it, now I'm not saying it right. The Mysteries of Kuru Pira, The Hidden Land of Unknown Creatures That Inspired Conan Duel's Lost World by Ben Tejana Ingram. We do have a couple maps I'm going to share for you, Joe, like I said. But listening audience, either pull up a map online or get the book, which we highly recommend. Now, also, there are going to be a couple of links in here for some map sites. There is, of course, Jose Miguel Perez Gomez. We have Carl Schunker and we have some additional things that you will want to check out, like the University of Texas Yakima language decoder, which is something we may get into this episode. We may not because this might not be one episode, man. There's just a massive story here. And Ben did such a great job. There's a lot of characters and a lot of other people's tales in it as well, like secondhand trappers from 1800s diaries and all these interesting tales that kind of interweave because that's how deep he had to go. to discover this. So there is a lot of like native lore around it too then. It's wild. And all of the indigenous tribes around the area all point in the same direction of where Kuru Pira, this evil spirit lives. And all of them have different names for it as well, but they all point in the same direction and say that it's all over there and don't go over there. And these, all of them, yeah, even the uncontacted. You know when the natives say stay away from this place, just, just probably listen to them. It's amazing, but it's such a big story to get there. This is not, again, Ben's first time on Mysterious Universe. Check it out down there, The Dinosaur of the Lost World, his search for Little Nessie, which is about another sighting location, not even the one that we're talking about today, of a creature in the remote jungles of Angel Falls, Venezuela, which, again, also being linked for that ask. Now, also mentioning Jose, a great guy. Check him out for sure. I can't undersell Jose Miguel Perez Gomez, guys. Go check out his website in there. I had him on the old show several times. I can say this dude is one of the sweetest people you will ever speak to as well. His heart is huge. He does not stop smiling and is a sweetheart to list his accent as infectious. So Ben begins his adventure with a quote. There are lost worlds everywhere. These timeless words were penned in 1955 by Bernard Huelmans, the father and founder of the modern study of cryptozoology in his groundbreaking book in search of unknown animals who we talked about on a plus extension a few episodes ago remember that guy not the name but i mean my short-term memory is all but gone i'm sure if you brought it up again i would totally recall it though he's the father of cryptozoo woo woo in search of unknown animals 1955 that's pretty much you're caught up okay in fact this was one of his central premises, that even in the modern world, there are isolated, small, remote pockets of land and sea that remain essentially unexplored and untouched. These pockets could serve as sanctuaries for creatures that remain uncatalogued or presumed to be extinct. This idea, along with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's novel, The Lost World, has profoundly influenced our fine author Ben Tejada Ingram and shaped the themes of his investigations. He wonders if there is a single original place that may have given birth to this concept. He asks, is it possible that the original lost world still exists, largely unknown and undocumented even to this day? What mysteries and discoveries might such a place hold? Strange creatures, apparently. Strange-ass creatures. What do you think of this, though? These pockets of untouched, isolated bits of the planet. She told him in Truman Show he can't go exploring because it's all been found. But really, is that true? Are there still places out there that humans are not familiar with? Well, I mean, you'd think because of Google Maps and Google Earth and all that stuff that we have a picture of the entire place. But there's still a bunch of places that have uncontacted tribes and places in the Amazon that are still largely untouched. So maybe we have a rough, I don't know, picture, I guess, of everything. But definitely there's plenty of places on Earth that have not been touched by humans. Completely agree. And you think about what's just under your feet. They're finding things like Darren Cuyus all over the place. where this dude was digging his basement, just wanted to expand his house, and then boom, Darren Cuyu, this massive underground complex that was buried on purpose. What's just down below a little bit? If this idea that a great flood occurred, then this whole settling of New Earth and all those things, it's a wild possibility, but in these remote places, they're so hard to get to. And Ben even mentions in here how dangerous they are from humans, not necessarily these creatures. It's a wild tale that it makes you feel like there are still places where adventure can be found. And maybe this is entirely possible that some wild creature or three, because there's three different examples he has in here, three different creatures, that could live in these isolated pockets that are just inhospitable or inaccessible to man. Because some of these tapuies are thousands of feet tall. They have incredible ecosystems across. They go from miles across on the top and nobody goes up there. They're unscalable walls, some of them. There's hundreds of them out there, and some of them have never been climbed, allegedly. Some of them are forbidden, and you can't climb. And they're only accessible by helicopter, but even doing that, some places the helicopter can't land. So you still are forced to scale the side of the walls, and only a few people in the world can do this. And these plateaus go for miles on top. So it's untouched. Nobody wants to go up there. Very hard to get to. Some of them very restricted. You could see how something may survive up there, especially then thinking of the cave systems that are probably interwoven within there, because you have things like Angel Falls, El Dorado Falls down there, and all those come from artesian wells. How's that water getting up there? It's being pumped up from the ground like they do. Big trees will do this. They pump these artesian wells up, and that's how you get a water flow off of an isolated tabletop in the middle of nowhere, because water's being pumped up through it. Interesting. Yeah, and we're still talking about the top layer of Earth here, Not even, like you said, the cave systems, but also we've talked a lot about the ocean. That's one of the most unexplored places ever. And there are some bizarre-ass creatures down at the bottom of the ocean just from what we've seen. I can't imagine what kind of leviathans are down there. And you wonder where all these, you know, myths and lores about these creatures come from. It's because somebody probably saw something like that at some point. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I don't see why not. or they at least believed in it enough to create a tulpa to make this thing be true at a level, perhaps. And that's maybe how it all works out. And either way, it's fun to talk about. Because then just to kind of assume that science knows everything, explorers have been there. Even finding the source of this river, Ben talks about in here, one of these great achievements in history, and it was just kind of bullshit. It was easily done. This guy planted his flag and then moved on, and nobody even questioned it or went a little bit further. So, again, you kind of get out there and say the science has settled on something. again if you're not questioning it trust but verify people if this is if we've learned anything from this and you and i will probably impart the wisdom of just trust but verify ask questions doesn't hurt well for now while his book aims to provide answers to some of these questions and hopefully appeal to the better part of our nature that sense of childlike wonder and excitement where possibilities are still inherent it's very cool ben feels he must also issue a warning to any would-be explorers, adventurers, or investigators looking to gather firsthand evidence of their own in the locations he mentions in this amazing book. The various places he writes about are located in the wildest, least explored, and most dangerous areas of Brazil and Venezuela. He's not referring to the abundant natural or wildlife perils that are abound there. Rather, he refers to an out-of-control criminal human element that sadly exists in these areas. Many of the locations mentioned in the pages have been invaded by illegal gold miners called Guarimperios by the locals, who have been responsible for numerous violent atrocities, including genocide committed against the native tribes and indigenous populations. these dangerous human predators often do not hesitate to kill anyone who may have discovered or stumbled across their illegal mining camps therefore ben and uh we might as well stamp our approval on this message seriously discourages those who might be thinking of actually traveling to these places in search of awesome creatures reported to be there due to the real monsters in the jungle the damn humans maybe have some experience at least before you go scaling walls and stuff like that too and that's the thing you might have the mountain climbing experience you might have a paleontologist on you might have tranquilizers that could take out you know some of these things and be all good but there's gorilla gold miners out there with illegal mines that just kill everybody they cause genocide on these tribes it's it's really disgusting but this is now not even just beasts you know you can't even go look for dinosaurs anymore man additionally though most of these areas are illegal to enter boo and the government's responsible for protecting them will arrest intruders who enter without permission after publishing his second book the land's forgotten by time which we've got to cover there's a whole section in there on a government that sets land aside because it recognizes yeti and it's a yeti preserve basically they don't claim to have one living they just say that they're setting it aside for it. Very cool. But it's in that book, The Land's Forgotten By Time, which of course is linked in the show description, guys. I got you. Our bold author received a message from a reader in Brazil about a plateau called Curupira in South America, rumored to be home to dinosaurs. How cool is this? You write a book, you write two books. One of them's like, yeah, there might be some cool things going on out there. Then you get this email from a guy in Brazil saying this. Hello, Ben. So first of all, I have read your book about Little Nessie and loved it. It is great, by the way, guys. Check it out. Again, linked in the show notes. We got you. Congratulations for the awesome book. Do you know that apparently there is another Tapui, which is the plateaus we've been talking about, with dinosaurs in South America? The Tapui is called Kurupira by the natives, and it's believed that it is home to three different dinosaurs. The stoa, which is a Carnotaurus. Close enough. The suah, a seropod, and the Washeriwi. That's a fun word to say. Which is a pterodon. Is that really how you say it? Washeriwi. How about you? W-A-S-H-O-R-I-W-E. Sounds right to me. Washeriwi. re-wash yo wee-wee nice yeah I like the way you hear things that's great alright now he leaves a link for Dr. Carl Schunker's website and so I've of course included it in the show's description now because he mentions it in the email here now back to the email I am Brazilian but I never heard of this tapui or creatures in it and seeing as how you are a good researcher I thought if you can discover more things about it maybe you can contact Perez, our friend Jose Miguel Perez Gomez is who he's referring to, again and see if he knows anything about it. Read the link below to know everything about it. It's Portuguese. This is a second language. I mean, what a cool dude. João Marcos Compuret. That's his name. The guy who contacted him. Now, there's a guy named Jarslav Marais, a scientifically inclined Czech adventurer, Czechoslovakian guy, who first documented the specific information about Shrunker's article concerning the Kuru Pira, the specific place, and the creature known as the Kuru Pira, as well as several other fascinating creatures believed to inhabit the area in several books written on CryptoZububu. There's a lot of names and characters going on here. If you got any questions about referring back, let me know. They're all foreign, and so I can help. Now, Jarzolov Mares, We're going to call him Mares from now on most likely for most of it. He's the Czech guy who wrote a book. His most significant book on Kurupira was Kurupira Zovlistin Chavismesti. Kurupira Sinister Secret. Published in the Czech Republic in 2005. This book is divided into three distinct sections. The first section recounts the author's expedition to the base of Kuru Pira in 1978. So, Zsarislav Mares went there in 1978. He went to the base. The second section of his book presents a retelling of the journal of a Scottish prospector named Reginald Riggs, who had resided near Kuru Pira for several years. So, that's another character we're going to pull in here. Original Riggs, who was a Scottish prospector, who Mares published in the second section of his book, his journal. The third and final section delves into the author's reflections on other investigations and discoveries made in more recent years about Kuru Pira and the enigmatic creatures said to inhabit the mountainous region. Mares had written several books on cryptozoology, including an encyclopedia of mysterious animals and two books focusing specifically on Kurupira. During his 1978 expedition Mares claimed to have heard of these creatures from the indigenous Wai tribe who lived near the base of Kuru Pira These accounts were further corroborated by Catholic missionaries in neighboring settlements and in the journals of the enigmatic prospector Reginald Ricks, who we talked about earlier, the Scottish guy. Oh, I've got my journal. Was that supposed to be a Scottish accent? Yeah, I usually tap into Braveheart where he's that line when he goes, I came back home to raise crops and God willing, I'm a liar. Dude, my favorite quote from Robin Williams was saying that the Scottish accent sounds like somebody trying to do a Scottish accent. Like they're doing a bit. No offense to any Scottish people. I think it sounds great, but it does. It sounds like you're doing a bit when you talk. I love it. That is great. That is beautiful. We missed that guy, man. He was a big part of our childhood, wasn't he? Among these creatures, the most extraordinary was the one that Weaka called a stoa. This lends credence to the idea that Conan Doyle may have partially based his book on this real location. In its rich indigenous lore, as the word stoa appears in his novel, The Lost World, referring to a terrifying bipedal carnivorous dinosaur that natives describe as a massive caiment, which is a species of South American alligator, which is approximately like 25 feet long. However, unlike a caiman, the stoa is believed to have walked bipedally on its hind legs upright. It also had a shorter head and snout compared to the caiman, but possessed distinctive small horns above its eyes. Its body is covered by non-overlapping scales, and this intimidating creature was reportedly known to prey on tapirs and capybaras hunting in an ambush manner. This thing would lie in wait near riverbeds, concealing itself into its unsuspecting prey, ventured too close, at which time it would attack. See, just that enough is, I don't want to go there now, because anything that resembles a croc or an alligator, I'm good. You're good, especially if it stands up and runs? I don't know how these Florida people do that. They just live with crocs or alligators. I don't know which one it is, but they're just in their backyards, and they just deal with it. I think it's immersion therapy. You know, they're just around it, so it's just what it is. Yeah. It's like, what, you don't have crocs running around? No. I loved, because Ksenia Moore, a friend of ours from Australia, she came, and we met him in Utah, and she saw a squirrel and lost her fucking mind. I was like, what? A squirrel? We don't have fucking squirrels, mate. Yeah. And so she was losing her shit over a squirrel, taking videos of it and everything. It was adorable. We did the same thing with kangaroos, and they feel the same about it. So these things have remarkable speed and agility as well. Mares, in several of his books, proposes that the Stila may be a surviving relative of a dinosaur called a Carnotaurus, which was a large carnivorous predator of the Cretaceous Era. That's a mouthful, isn't it? The Carnotaurus is a large carnivorous predator of the Cretaceous Era. Jesus Christ. You're doing great. Thank you. Notable similarities to the fearsome T-Rex. Did you have a favorite dinosaur growing up? Because we were raised in the dinos. I always liked the, it's kind of partial to the stegosaurus. The spiky things on its back. I mean, everybody loved the T-Rex, obviously, especially after Jurassic Park. But they look goofy. They got those little dangly arms in the front that they can't do anything with. Something about it don't sit right with me, too. And I heard somebody say that actually all of the paleontologists that work on them know that they're putting the shoulders on backwards and that they're supposed to be wings. I've heard that rumor through the grapevine that they all just sort of have this agreement. Like all doctors tell agreed to tell you that there's no crystals in your heart, but there's crystals in your damn heart. What? One of these hundred year light bulbs, secret things. Like it's just one of these agreed upon things. Virus is a real. You don't have crystals in your heart. Dinosaurs are this thing. Yeah, well, that is making an assumption that dinosaurs were, in fact, real in the way they're described. Thank you. Thank you. And not just actual dragons. Dude, and to that, we were to the point where I was going to talk about Jack Horner, so I will now. He is this paleontologist who admitted that they counted all these fossils as new species and didn't consider that things are first small and then grow. And then as they do that, they change size and characteristics. and they said to have had to reduce the number of species by like at least half. So when you had those thick ass dinosaur books as a kid, they were just misnamed different stages of development of dinosaurs. I could see that. That makes sense. It's going to be linked actually. So we argued that many dinosaur species were actually juveniles of others, famously proposing that Triceratops was a juvenile torosaurus and that Nanotyrannus was a juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex. Or maybe they were different types of dragons. What's your thought on the dragon thing? I think it had to have existed in some form or another. There's too many mythologies or so-called mythologies, especially in China and that kind of area. There had to have been something to it. Now, whether they flew around and breathed fire and hoarded gold in their caves, that might be embellishment. Nah, that's the only bit that I'm sold on, actually. All of the other bits of bullshit. But I do like the Chinese Zodiac element of it because it's the only non-real, air quotes, creature on that damn thing. Yeah. Anyway, that Jack Horner stuff is going to be linked if you want to watch him do the TED Talk on it. I think it's a TED Talk or something that looks like a TED Talk. Anyway, back to it then. Here we go. So, Mares draws parallels between the only well-preserved Carnotaurus specimen and indigenous descriptions of the Stoa. The Carnotaurus specimen clearly demonstrates the presence of distinctive small horns above the eyes and its non-overlapping scales as well, which can be deduced, allegedly, from impressions on the specimen. The actual skin of the formidable predators has been preserved on certain parts of their skeletons. Bones of the creatures have been found in Argentina and in other parts of South America, suggesting that if any survived Earth's mass extinction events over the eons, they might have ended up in Brazil or Venezuela. After all, modern crocodiles, caimans, and alligators are descendants of the large reptilian order Crocodilia, which first appeared in the late Cretaceous period, allegedly. They've existed in one form or another for the past 94 million years, making the notion of a modern surviving descendant of Carnotaurus seem imminently plausible. There's this guy named Ritiwa, and he's a close friend and Waika guide, and he recounts an exhilarating tale of a confrontation between hunters from his tribe and Astoa. During a hunting expedition, the warriors stumbled upon Astoa. leading to a fierce battle between the humans and this terrifying prehistoric beast. The prospector informed Reginald Riggs that the hunters attempted to shoot the Stoa with their bows, but the arrows failed to penetrate its thick armored hide. Instead, the arrows only enraged the beast, causing it to kill several members of the hunting party before being driven away. Ritiwa shared another account of a seemingly prehistoric creature Occasionally, people of the tribe would catch sight of a strange creature on top of the Kurupira Plateau Ritiwa described it as resembling a large tapir with a long neck and short legs and reptilian features Now despite limited information about this enigmatic creature the locals had given it the name the Stoa Based on Ritua's stories and sketches he had shown Riggs, Mares hypothesized that the closest match to this bizarre creature might be a modern descendant of the Cerepod dinosaurs. We have all that straight? Ritua is a Wakita guide, and Riggs is the one delivering this story in his journal. Mares is the guy that wrote about Riggs' journal. Got it. Cool. All straight. It's a lot. It's a lot with a lot of names. Cerepods, the long-necked herbivores of the Jurassic, Triassic, and Cretaceous periods were the largest animals that ever roamed Earth that they've ever found, allegedly Do you think that's true? Do you think there could be some fat big whale or something that nobody ever heard of that died millions of years ago, laid on the bottom of the ocean floor that we've never heard of that's bigger than these damn things? I would almost guarantee it, like we said earlier we know there's monstrous creatures down there I mean, just even, I think what's the largest known one is the blue whale or is it the sperm whale? It's one of those blue whale. Let me fact check that on the floor. They're massive. They have like, I don't know, six foot long dingers and stuff there. I mean, Oh, nice. Yeah. But, uh, I would imagine that there's probably even bigger stuff closer to the bottom. Cause I mean, those are, those are deep down, but they're still relatively, I mean, they're higher up than the farthest point down in the ocean. So there's gotta be bigger stuff down there. I mean, you see, it's probably a lot of AI flop now, but you do see, you know, legends or myths of these giant like squids. And those, I think those are actually documented. And even those ones are monstrous too. So it just seems like the further down you go, the bigger shit gets. And it would have to be because of the enormous pressure, you know, they've got to have massive bones or whatever is in there that keep them from imploding on themselves. So I bet there's all kinds of weird stuff down there we have no idea about. That's a great point. You're absolutely right. I feel the exact same. Now to confirm here, the biggest creature in the world is the blue whale. The largest animal known to have ever lived, reaching up to 100 feet long and weighing as much as 200 tons. Good thing they're in the water. Couldn't drag that fat ass around. Dwarfing even the largest dinosaurs, it reads here in this AI search that I quickly did while we were talking. They were massive. So this says here that they were... They varied in size with a smaller or dwarf seropods ranging from 5 to 6 meters or around 20 feet in length compared to the larger seropods that grew to between 33 and 34 meters or around 110 feet in length. But this AI slop just told me that it was 100 feet and that's the longest thing ever. So I'm going to call bullshit on that. We're going to go with his research. Oh, what is it? No. perhaps the descendants of a smaller seraponic genius is one of the strange creatures known as the suwa and this may be what they found in that my search for a little nessie because even jose miguel perez gomez has a picture of something that he drew and he even has a picture they print in the book of this little mini freaking nessie looking thing you know it looks like one of these tiny or a smaller serapod maybe it's a juvenile right it just hadn't gotten a chance to get that Let me see that Nessie, I get my dinosaur names mixed up, but is it the Brontosaurus or the Brachiosaurus? What are those two that has a super long neck and kind of resembles a Nessie? Could be totally off. Yeah, Brachiosaurus and Brontosaurus both have that. Brontosaurus allegedly had the snout on the head, which was from Jurassic Park. And that one was just a little bit bigger allegedly than Brontosaurus. But Brontosaurus was the thing in Land Before Time, the thing that fucking mom died and made you cry as a child. Even the Loch Ness thing has ties to Crowley. I mean. Really? From what I, oh man, now you're making me doubt myself. No, I totally believe it. This is another thing that we could do is, you know, cryptids and Crowley. That'd be great. Yeah, I seem to recall some, I don't know if it's true or not, but some legend that he was opening a portal somewhere close by. And maybe that's what happened is some interdimensional creature got through and then he never closed the portal. Because that's a famous thing that he never closed the portal correctly or whatever. That's right. Could you imagine, though, that they come back? I think this happened in Rick and Morty, where they came back, and they were the high-intelligent species, but they were all dinosaurs, and they just left and came back to find that we had destroyed the planet, and they were trying to help us out. And it may be this, you know, that he called forth one of these damn things, and it was just a hyper self-actualized, what we'd call dinosaur, and they weren't stupid at all. They were fucking awesome. No, and they're walking around. Well, in Rick and Morty, they're walking around with, like, crystals on their heads and stuff. Exactly, doing telepathy and, you know, all of that. And if you're not watching Rick and Morty at this point, what are you doing with your life? Such a great show. It's so ridiculous and so offensive and just great. For a nothing box, it's wonderful. If you're doing other things instead of stuff like that, keep doing that, like sewing or learning a skill or learning how to make moccasins with your hands or something like that. I'm talking about your brain rot time of the day when you're done and you can just kick back and watch something stupid. That's a good go-to. A nothing box. And we all need this, by the way. You know, we could talk about this. There's a psychologist that I saw do this talk a long time ago, he talked about the difference between men and women and that women, when they ask men, what are you thinking about, we can say nothing. And the reason we can say that is because we compartmentalize what we need to do based on what we're doing at the time. So we're actually a little bit more in the moment, but it's just the way our brains are wired, allegedly. Because women, it's connected like a web, right? Like spokes on a wheel. So they're thinking about many things connected to many things while they're involved in one thing that may have nothing to do with all that other shit, and that's the way they're wired. Yeah, it's jumping around. All the neurons are just firing randomly Right, which means just a simple task is now connected to a memory, to emotion, to all of these things. But you could just be like, dude, just screw the thing in the wall, Debbie. You know what I mean? It's not that big a deal. You don't have to bring up your data issues right now. Just screw the little thing. No, I can definitely say that my brain hardly ever stops going either. But there is a time of day or whatever I'm doing where I'm just in the zone and I'm literally thinking about nothing except what I'm doing. I'm screwing this new outlet into the wall. what are you thinking about? This, this right here. This is it. This is it guys. And that's what's funny too. It's one of those old man and women are so different and check this out. But it is interesting when you take a look at it because now Mary and I, we address it. I heard this like 10 years ago, man. So we've, this has been a thing in our relationship. I'm like, oh, you're ready for our nothing box. That's when it's time to sit down. We've done so much or our minds are just done for the day. You've got to unplug and just unwind and kind of be that buffer between the high concepts that we look at, the job, the work, your excitements, whatever, nervous system, and bring that down. And that's a wonderful distraction is a nothing box. And that's what we call it. That's literally what we call it. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, whether it's football or whether, you know, somebody, you got to have your nothing box. And I think the only problem would come in is if you're constantly in that nothing box, then you're probably not getting a whole lot done. Yeah. This can be video games. It can be anything, you know. And same thing, like anything, moderation crew, you know, all of that. Yeah, because most of the time we're going to move on. And moderation within moderation, too. Don't be too moderate all the time. That's boring. Yeah, moderate your moderation, okay? Yes. Get it right, guys. Remember, if you can run through walls, just get going real fast. You just got to really believe it. That's it. Like, really believe it. Now, the third mysterious creature found on Kuru Pira was not part of any story told to Riggs, but rather one that he claimed to have personally encountered. Riggs even insisted that he had observed a pair of these creatures engaged in a fierce fight. This creature, known to the Waiyeka as the Washariwi, was the third member of this ragtag group of enigmatic creatures discovered on Kurupira. Of their tribal mythology, the Waiyeka believed the Washariwi to be an ancestor of all modern vampire bats. They describe it as an immense creature with enormous leathery wings, a long beak, and a distinctive crest on its back. Unlike modern bats, which are nocturnal, the Waiyika observed Wachariwi during the day. So they're out wandering around in the day rather than bats. And he goes into something fascinating about the names that he found in a directory that we're not going to cover yet. It might be on this episode. It might be on another one. But it's fascinating. I've got it here, and it's going to be linked if you guys want to beat me to it. It's the last link in the show description probably, unless we add something else. But it's titled Texas State Yakima Directory. And you can go see the etymology of some of these words. And that's how he made a really cool discovery. And, you know, we'll get to it. So they occasionally spotted it perched on trees near Kurupira and witnessed it skimming over the treetops of the surrounding area with its impressive 20-foot wingspan. What would you do? You see this pterosaur flying above you, man. I immediately think that I probably shouldn't have done that DMT earlier, but also probably making a little mess in my pants. If you see that in real life. You offering a fudge dragon to that? Yeah. Okay. Mares noted that Curupiro was near an area in Brazil where numerous exceptionally well-preserved pterosaur fossils had been discovered. These are allegedly other, of course, dinosaur creatures with leathery wings that they found, and they're found all over this area. Now, he argued that based on this fossil evidence and the apparent presence of numerous pterosaurs in the region, that it was possible that any survivors might be the descendants of the Washer-Wee-Wee. Aren't you glad I gave you that mnemonic for you? Now you know. Washer-Wee-Wee. No, Washer-Wee-Wee. It's actually great. It's really great. And now I know the etymology of the word. We're not going to get to it yet. I really don't want to spoil it because it's very interesting and it requires explanation. But I now see those two words and now see it. The washer is one and riwe, R-I-W-E, are the suffix. So you have these two different things that come together, but it's interchangeable. And you can see other words now that do it and you'll be like, oh, shit, it's a riwe. I know what that is. It's really cool. But thank you. Yes, the alliteration you offered, the washer riwe, actually has helped phonetically quite a bit. Thank you. now as he finished ben here as he finished reading shrunker's captivating article which is linked guys detailing the accounts of seemingly extraordinary creatures ben suddenly recalled that he had indeed heard of kurupira before he remembered skimming an article years earlier but he hadn't taken it seriously at the time and dismissed it altogether see it knocked on his door he dismissed it and then remembered only after connecting it only after this guy wrote him seemingly unconnected to this thing as well it's just interesting to the synchronicities again that elf on a shelf kind of idea that it'll pull pull you even because when you go buy an idea you're not ready for it yet you're not ready to open the door but you know the door exists you're like oh okay well we come back to you and then when you come back to it you like oh wow okay is this the time and this was ben time i mean that happens all the time in men in Black or UFO reports too where they don remember it until 20 years later they have an experience and then it pings something in their brain and they go oh yeah, I saw monkey men in my bedroom when I was three. How did I forget that? It's like, yeah, how did you forget that? Like the story we read of the soldier who saw a mantis zoomed up on TV 20 years after some crazy experience he had with a mantis being, didn't remember it until then, and then he saw it, and then boom, flashed in his mind again. Yeah. That's another reason not to watch TV. It could trigger repressed memories that you were just fine living without. So firstly, he'd been able to find any corroboration of any of these reported cryptids that folk had talked about and encountered in the region of Brazil or Venezuela. The beast purportedly witnessed by Shrunker appeared to be isolated sightings and reports, which made it difficult for him to attach any weight or credulity to him. especially since he couldn't find out any other mention of these creatures on any other records. Now secondly, another aspect that made the entire story challenging to accept was the fact that it seemed that few people could agree on whether Kuru Pira was actually a real Tapui. Plateau there. Ben's quick review of the comment section attached to Shunker's article confirmed this. Readers have asked specific questions about Kuru Pira's location. Schunker responded somewhat enigmatically, stating that, according to Marais, the Brazilian government had intentionally obscured the precise location of the Tapui, possibly hiding it or removing it from recent maps. What? The government doesn't do that. What? That's crazy. They would never do that. They're working for you. You're the people. It is wild, though, to think about. You get this wild area, you know, and this raises the question about the authenticity of the story. If Kuru Pira is a real location, it seemed implausible that it had been deliberately concealed, Ben says. But you and I agree that it seems pretty smart, actually. If you are trying to hide a place, then you just declare it a zone that you can't go or change the name on the map. So now people go looking for it in the wrong spot, and this comes up later on in the work, actually. Oh, yeah. And like going back to places that are undiscovered, I mean, there's plenty of examples of people allegedly and they get buried and they get debunked of people finding, you know, pyramids in the middle of the forest that are just overgrown with all kinds of stuff. and they either fall off the map real quick or they get disappeared or it's, oh, that was a conspiracy and whatever. And it's like, well, why don't we go back there and check it out? And so then the government goes in and checks it out. And nope, there sure was nothing down there. Nothing to see here. But we're going to cord it all off. Don't go here. It's illegal. It's dangerous. Now it's illegal. You can't do it. Well, it's like the Grand Canyon. Well, if there's nothing there, why don't you put an iron gate over it and restrict, I think all but 20% of the Grand Canyon is accessible. Yeah. But it's public. So what's that? It's a waterway. Then they come up with these retarded reasons why you can't go in there because there's some kind of owl that's in there that there's only three of them left. And hey, maybe that's part of it. It's interesting also they chose an owl. Sort of that Moloch idea. I think the spotted owl was actually taken off the endangered list. Really? Good for us. Way to go, team. I know. Further investigation led Ben to discover posts by other curious researchers who had attempted to find its true location. While some Reddit posts suggested slightly more precise indications of the lost plateau, additional research in the area indicated yielded no specific findings. Some researchers even concluded that there was no plateau or tapui in the area. We're going to get to this with the maps here in a minute, Joe. this information was both confusing and frustrating to ben he wondered if the other researchers on reddit had accurately translated the reports about the location additionally a significant number of people dismissed the entire kuru pira story as a hoax welcome to reddit ben despite these skeptical reactions he couldn't shake the feeling that there was something more to the story and good on you mate if mares had indeed revealed the exact location why hadn't anyone been able to pinpoint it on a map in our age of easily accessible satellite imagery and tools like google earth finding hidden locations should be relatively straightforward now google earth i will say kind of full of shit if you think about it they're offering you what they want you to see not necessarily what's there and i've seen a lot of fuckery when it comes to people who spend a lot of time on Google Earth that will show if you zoom in at a certain, you'll clip like we've talked about video games do this, they clip they kind of glitch a little bit and you'll see something else under it. It's almost like they do have the real shit, but they overlay something over it. A lot of water is done with this. There's talk of that they're hiding entire continents and weird shit like this. I'm in a group on Facebook actually of Google Earth anomalies and 99% of it is just dumb. Sure. And it's like fine, good for the people that have the time on their hands to go zoom in and do if you ever watch one of those videos of somebody like look at this crazy thing and it takes them 10 minutes to zoom into the spot it's like oh i'd go right to the end man i'm not fucking what are you doing yeah no i times two everything or i'd go right to the end i'm not falling for that shit like uh getting a recipe we skip past the story get get to how many cups of whatever i don't need six paragraphs of how your grandma loved this recipe just give me how much how many you know teaspoons of baking powder i'm sure she was delightful and had amazing tits, but not now. Grannies always have great tits. Always. A quick fact check on my spotted owl. It is near threatened now, and it says population decreasing. So I... Wait, so it was endangered, it's near threatened now, and going the other way? You got my hopes up about the spotted owl, bro. I know. And now it looks like that's the other way. They're just not doing so well. Well, they've had their time. Yeah. I mean, everything goes extinct eventually, right? Allegedly, yeah. So if Kuru... Thank you for that fact check, by the way. We need those kind of things. Yeah, no problem. I do appreciate that. Well, I don't like the open tabs. I'm like sitting here in my mind going, fuck, I gotta look that up later. I'll write down some things sometimes, but I like that we do it on the fly. Now, if Kuru Pira was real, it seemed logical that it would be present on satellite maps. Furthermore, his gut feeling told him that it should be located in the area originally indicated by Mares. This Czechoslovakian author went out there, explored, found a diary of somebody else. You're there. Now, Ben's mission was to find out where Kurupira truly resided. And at the time, he had no idea that this pursuit would lead him on an extraordinarily intricate and captivating journey of research and discovery. Ben had no idea what strange revelations might emerge as he ventured into the pursuit of the truth of Kurupira. Of Kurupira. There we go. For Ben to embark on his quest for the truth behind the legends, he had to acquire a copy of the original book written about Kurupira, written by Zhezlov Marese. He believed this book would provide more details about the location if indeed Kurupira was a real place. He'd wondered if the English-speaking investigators investigating the mystery had found the correct passages or sections of the book that described the location or if they had used faulty translations. So this is the thing, too. He's translating a book from Czechoslovakian that this Brazilian guy recommended him. A lot of things are lost in translation. Think of some very popular books that everybody's probably read at some point. The Bible? How many translations did this go through? was there an agenda behind maybe inserting or deleting certain sections? That's a different show, though. Sorry. That's all kinds of show, man. I love it. We'll do it. Finding an obscure out-of-print book written in Czechoslovakian was neither easy nor inexpensive. The only copies available for sale seemed to be in the Czech Republic. However, fate intervened when he discovered that there were a few digitized copies of the book's text floating around online. Finally, he was able to download Mahrez's original Microsoft Word manuscript document. But this presented a new challenge. How could he read the book written in a foreign language? Google Translate. You can always trust that. Spot on. Through the ever-evolving wonders of modern technology, this problem was swiftly resolved with the help of Google Translate. Oh, read your mind. Look at that. Ben was immediately—our cycles are so synced. Ben was immediately captivated. Zsarslav Mares weaved an intriguing and colorful story written in what must have been a beautiful prose in his native language. Even the Google-assisted translate version still has a certain poetic, lyrical, and artful quality to his choice of words and language. How about that? Your shit's translated into another language. It still sings from the mountain. So this book begins with Marais' extensive experience and knowledge of the port city of Manas, Brazil. He painted a vivid picture of sights, sounds, smells, and culture of this Paris of the tropics, as Menace is sometimes known. One thing was abundantly clear to our humble author. This man was undoubtedly speaking from real experience. There was a certain ring of authenticity to his story, imbued with the emotions of someone recalling a vivid adventure, which quickly dismissed the criticisms some had made that mares has never set foot in brazil or those who insisted that it must all be a hoax the guy was too convincing in his writing joe i love it when people dismiss things and debunk it just by saying no it's fake it's uh it's just not real you go well how do you know because it isn't obviously and you go oh all right good i can get about my day now appreciate that that was articulate it's nice because it's like a visual Axe body spray. You remember you used to tell a dickhead by the Axe body spray before the internet you just smell it and be like oh man I'm not gonna have much in common with you. We're not gonna. Yeah the old double pits to chesty. I remember that. Well now it's like that. It's like you could see him coming from a distance and so it's kind of nice actually. I like it. It shows you what you're possibly getting into and so you can go ahead and say no thank you. Well yeah you just go oh okay and I'll just agree with you and then uh yes you are correct and then you yeah It saves you a lot of time, really. I like that. You look happy. What did you do? Oh, I stopped arguing with idiots. That's stupid. You're absolutely right. I love that. You are correct, sir. Have a great day. One of my favorites is that bees don't waste their time explaining to flies why honey tastes better than shit. Now, he soon came across something significant. the impetus of the adventure the spark of discovery that led Marais to decide to embark on an expedition to the uncharted wilds of the Amazonian jungle how fucking cool is this man would you do this would you like man I would have been an adventure of turn of the century steampunk shit I would like to say that I would love to go do that but in reality I would be terrified I mean the Amazon jungle by your, I mean, I guess you wouldn't be by yourself, but even with people who are experienced, you never know what you're going to come across. You step in one wrong spot, and all of a sudden you've got some weird, I mean, even creatures we know of that can just pretty much unalive you immediately. Sure. No. And you got pygmy people and all kinds of shit out there that you don't even know what's out there. The unknown unknowns. Hey, pygmy is racist. You can't say that. Is that right? Can we not do that anymore? I mean, probably. I don't know. All right. maria's notes that he had been enthralled by sir arthur conan doyle's novel the lost world since a young age and he had dreamed of having such an adventure for himself one day following the footsteps of his childhood heroes have you ever read the lost world i don't think so are you familiar it's it's just this really cool adventure story highly recommend if anybody has never read it in fact uh i'll note to link it but i'll link it down in the show description okay guys so you So you can just find a copy of the reprinted, you know, it's just a fiction work or whatever. But man, it inspired a lot. And it might not be 100% based on fiction. There's a fictional story perhaps based on a real location. And we're going to get into a little bit more about that. So you didn't, have you ever, did you have one of these, you know, stories that you've read as a young kid, like about Egypt or like Jordan Petra or anything like that? or did you do you have any like that that you can think of when you were a kid not off the top of my head but yeah I definitely read a lot of those types of books one of my personal favorites it was a movie actually but The Land Before Time great movie that cartoon you remember that I got pulled out of the theater crying I saw it in the theaters well I saw part of it and my mom however old I was when it came out she had to pull me out of the theater man I was screaming crying I was so pissed Just bawling like a little bitch. Yep, fuck that shit. It's trauma and I'm not interested in playing that game. Bingey too. There was a Bingey movie she took me to. I think she just finally stopped taking me to shit. Oh, I remember those. Oh God, I cried so hard. Fuck those people and what they do to animals on camera in front of kids. Fuck those people. That was way before CGI too. Oh, yeah. Okay, we're not talking. All right. He also mentions that Conan Doyle's book does contain some telling clues as to what could possibly be a real location if one carefully traces the route of the journey undertaken by the protagonist and the landmarks encountered along the way. Namares recalls that it was during an earlier trip to Brazil about 10 years prior to his expedition that he first heard stories of the legendary table mountain Kuru Pira and its sinister reputation. As if living a film noir in real life, he recounts a chance meeting with a mysterious stranger, a trapper in a seedy, dimly lit back alley bar. This fur trapper, now deceased of course, told of an experience in which he was asked by two young Europeans to be a guide on an expedition to a table mountain deep in the jungle many years ago. Despite being offered generous compensation, the trapper declined, knowing in part the legends concerning this mountain. The trapper insists that the two members of this ill-fated expedition were encountered years later, albeit only their shrunken heads in a manis curiosity shop. That rumor's still going around, the shrunken heads? That's what he says. He says, that's what happened is that these two dudes, he declined to take out into this mysterious place because he knew exactly what was out there. So this is Curipoo, so they wanted to go out there. And he said, no, thank you. Years later, he saw their heads in a curiosity shop, shrunk up. What do you think about it? Why would you keep that? Why would you keep that on your shelf? Why would you keep the shrunken head? Yeah. Honestly, I don't get it, but to each his own kind of thing. That's a different type of decoration. You got to really explain yourself. You really do. I mean, this is like Christmas decoration. Could you imagine just having shrunken heads all over your little Christmas tree? I mean, it sounds like a movie. Yes. But I guarantee you there's people out there that have way weirder stuff than that on their shelves. Could you imagine finding that out about your spouse? You know, you're like, hey, I have this weird hobby. I haven't told you before. And there's this underground basement you don't know about in your house. And this is this shrunken head factory. Museum. Like, Jen, my God. She's good with her hands. This might be a deal killer. I know we've known each other for quite some time. I don't know. Common law would get you on the divorce rate. It'd be cheaper to keep her, dude. You got to bring that up in court, though. Like, no, your honor. Look at this. Like, well, there's nothing actually that states can't do that. Exhibit A. Yeah. So, what calamity had befallen them? And did it have anything to do with their destination and seemingly the cursed plateau? question mark? The trapper also weaves another colorful tale imparted to him by the sole survivor of a group of Venezuelan military defectors. That's a good name for a band. He encountered this man by chance in the jungle. The survivor on the run seemed terrified and traumatized by what he had seen. The survivor explained that when crossing the uncharted border zone, their party had decided to camp on top of the table mountain. In the late evening, the surviving Venezuelan was asked to scout the terrain ahead by his commanding officer. And while the rest of the group set up camp, that's what he did. He wandered off. When he returned to his companions a short while later, he was horrified to find the 10 members of his party all dead. It was as if they had all started to flee from something unseen, some unseen force or menace in the midst of their camp. They had seemingly scattered in every direction, but none of them made it far. And to make it even stranger, the survivor stated that not one of them had any visible injuries of any kind. Ah, that was going to be my next question. What was the cause of death? This incredible, shocking story seemed to have no rational explanation. Indeed, according to the trapper, it wasn't the first tale of its kind to come from the area. There seemed to be no explanation other than the lurking supernatural menace of the mythological being the Kuru Pira, whose home had been intruded upon. Namares was shocked and astonished to learn that just as in the Conan Doyle novel, many native people of Brazil seem to know about the Kuru Pira, or the demon of the forest. Though according to folklore, descriptions vary, this mythological being is said to be somewhat human-like in appearance. It is known to play tricks on, attack, and even kill human beings, especially those who disrespect his home deep in the jungle. Sometimes, however, its description is something even more terrifying, a lurking, shapeless, formless, evil presence capable of causing people to drop dead. In general Brazilian indigenous groups from the northern part of the country are terrified of the Kuru Pira I will mention here also that Ben interchanges when he talking about the entity he spells it with a C When he's talking about the place, he spells it with a K. So the phonetics of this are really important as well because this is how maps have been changed up and obfuscated as well. And we're going to see more about that. So just to know that when we're talking about the creature, spelled with a C, C-U-R-U-P-I-R-A, we're talking about the place, chuck a K in front of it instead of a C there, okay? However, more interestingly, they seem to generally agree on a specific location where it resides. According to Zsarzlov Marais, this existence of the place has been verified and is undoubtedly real and evidenced by its presence on certain older maps of Brazil. However, strangely, it didn't appear on any of the current maps in the 1970s and the time of his expedition. This was precisely the reason for his expedition in 1978, which was aimed at testing his hypothesis that this lost world was indeed a real place. So who was this Jarlow Marais? He was an acclaimed adventurer, international traveler, and author. His insatiable curiosity and wanderlust led him to become a knowledgeable enthographer and biologist during his travels. His most renowned academic contribution was the identification of the strongest carnivorous beetle in the world, the Manticora Imperiator. Imperiator, that's a good word. Is that like the Manticore? Isn't that Harry Potter? Is that Harry Potter? Manticora Imperiator? Which he discovered and described in 1976. So that thing was discovered by Georges Lov Mares in 1976. The Manticora Imperiator. That's a cool word, Imperiator. Later in his career, Mares became a specialist in the tiger beetle family, discovering, identifying, and describing three additional unique species of beetles. Throughout his life, Mares was an avid international traveler visiting over 85 countries. After graduating from the University of Economics in Prague with a degree in foreign marketing, he worked for a time for CSA Czech Airlines, which provided him the opportunity to explore remote corners of the globe. That's pretty cool. You work for the airlines so you can fly around. Oh, yeah. That'd be one of the biggest bonuses for doing that. It is funny, the older maps, when they talk about, oh, this was on this older map, but surprisingly not on the new map. and i mean obviously you gotta ask why especially if you have brains like ours but there does seem to be a lot of that that goes on where it looks wildly different and it could be obviously because there weren't you know the cartography back then wasn't as good but then you also look at surprisingly um detailed and accurate maps from the same time periods and you're like so did they get this totally wrong for some reason or is something being hidden over here Like the earlier maps of the North Pole doesn't look anything like what you'll see now. Yeah, where'd Hyperboea go? It could have changed, but the supposed lore around places like the North Pole looks so much different than what we see now. It's just an ice shelf or ice sheet, whatever. Yeah. But you look at the older ones and they have the Axis Mundi there. They have the mountain. The Black Mountain. The Magnetic Mountain. And yeah, with the four rivers going through. And it was like a well-known thing. And then now you look at it and it's like, that doesn't look anything the same. So what's going on there? Man, we should do a Hyperborea. Let's do it because it's fun to say. I guess the explanation would be climate change. Oh, what a bunch of horse shit. You can't melt landmass. There's landmass there that you say is not. And if it's climate change, it's covered with more ice. So you're covering it with more ice but telling us it's getting hotter. Get fucked. The whole thing, get fucked. This is so silly. That's what they do. They roll something silly out in front of you and then offer you something else. AIDS was one of these. I heard Owen Benjamin use the example the other day. AIDS. They were scaring the shit out of everybody. And then they also at the same time put out a diet pill called AIDS. So they would say lose weight with AIDS. But it's this conflicting messaging, right? All this sexual shit everywhere. But then this obfuscation against sex. It's this odd in your face but don't do it. Think about it. Don't think about it. So you're thinking about it. That's the problem. But you're like being shown it all the time. It's a fascinating thing. So, Jarzlov Mares authored 22 books, many of which were focused on enthonography, which is map making, I believe, biology or travel-related topics. However, he did have a particular interest in cryptozoology. He wrote several books on the subject, including an encyclopedia of cryptozoology, Mysterious Animals from Around the World. Ben finally located the first of several passages that precisely describe the location of Kurupira, the enigmatic tabletop mountain. The initial clue to its actual location lies in a section discussing the mythical creature that the mountain was supposedly named after, the Kurupira, the terrifying humanoid demon of the forest. Now from the book, quote, Although Curupira is the ruler of the entire Amazon forest, the Indians have a specific and precisely determined dwelling place for him. This location is situated on a steep mesa on the border between Brazil and Venezuela, separated from the surrounding forest by steep vertical escarpments that average about 200 meters in height. Can you imagine that? These are just vertical sheer cliffs. I'm going to show you a picture of one here in a minute. On the Venezuelan side, the Ornico flows from here, while on the Brazilian side, the Catrimani, a tributary of the Rio Blanca along the Mala... Mapilao, Pacamiao, and Tutotobi rivers, nailed it, got them all in. You did it. All drain the waters into the Demi. This is the domain of the menacing and mysterious forces hostile to humanity. No one knows exactly or will explicitly state the nature of these forces, but you couldn't convince any local tribesman to venture here, even if you offered him a substantial amount of gold. That's from the excerpt of Kurupura published by Jarsloff Marais. Here we gain some crucial information. Now first, the location where the demon of the forest resides is precisely along the Venezuelan-Brazilian border on a steep mesa. This location holds significant geological importance as it is believed to be the source of five rivers. Could it be a mere coincidence that a spot from which numerous major rivers initially originate is also thought to be the seat of power of a malevolent force, the Curupira? As Ben continued reading, he stumbled upon another passage that provided an even more precise location, one that anyone should be able to locate on a map. And according to the available maps, the Kirupuru Mountain has an exact location, irregular and torn in shape. The Sierra Kurupira with a C roughly resembles a large figure 8 spanning approximately 180 kilometers in circumference. It's approximately 40 kilometers long with a width of 20 kilometers at its widest point and 8 kilometers at its narrowest. The plateau stands at a little over 1,000 meters in altitude. The border between Brazil and Venezuela runs along its edge, and the Brazilian part also crosses the border between the Brazilian states of Amazonas and Romamia. On some maps, the entire plateau between the Tapipapeco and Paraming Mountains is collectively referred to as the Sierra Kurupira. However, the western part of the plateau is lower, easily accessible, and has no connection to the Indian legends about the demon in the forest. The true Kurupira emerges as an inaccessible fortress only in the easternmost part of this plateau. The nearest starting point for the journey to Kuru Pira is the mission settlement of Porto del Maloca, situated in the upper reaches of the Mapularu River. It's approximately 25 kilometers as the crow flies from the eastern wall of the plateau. Now, let me show you, Joe, a section here. We probably won't go much further into this, but I'm going to show you just a couple of things here. And you guys definitely check links out below. we still have so much more to talk about. So honestly, definitely going to continue this on the Tuesday show because there's just so much to cover. All right. So this is the Porta del Maloca, and this is the origin point for the border between Brazil and Venezuela, but it's right here on Roamia and the Amazonias. So this border land right here, the Brazilian states of Romania and Amazonias on the Brazilian Venezuelan border right there. Looks like pretty much out in the middle of nowhere to me. Oh man. It's way out in the middle of nowhere. And this is what's interesting too, is that he's going to start getting into the elevations here in a second. And that's why he said that it slopes off to the western side, but the eastern side is what has this sharp edge to it. These descriptions are what helped Ben locate this area. Because if you call it a tapui, then it's got a solid tabletop to it and then jets cliffs on either side of it. That's the definition of it. And this is why there was some argument on whether it was a tapui at all. It seems to gradually ascend an elevation on one side and then just drop on the other. And so this description of it, and we'll get into it, if you're coming at it from a certain angle, you wouldn't describe it as one of these tapuies because you can't see very far in either direction. You come up against this wall. You've seen hundreds of other, you know, there are hundreds of these around that are confirmed to be this way. Why wouldn't you think that? And Ben goes over it, which is just awesome. So now, finally, a solid concrete reference point. Ben already knew that Curupira was located on the border between Brazil and Venezuela. but now he also knew that part of it should lie between the Brazilian states of Amazonias and Romamia. With growing anticipation, he opened Google Earth and searched until he located the precise area which intersects the border between Brazil and Venezuela. He also includes the states of Romamia and Amazonias. He was hoping to see a vast plateau rising out of the jungle. Instead, what he found was something more captivating and perplexing. There is the map. He shows you on a map that you can see. Porto del Maloca is situated in this area. He decided to measure it with a straight line extending eastward from Porto del Maloca, precisely 25 kilometers, as indicated by the yellow line in the map. To locate the eastern wall of Kuru Pier, as explained in Mare's book. At this point, a lower landmass appears to intersect with what appears to be a jagged, uneven cliff face protruding from the jungle, whose area on the map appears to be darker than the terrain below it. One aspect of it, though, it did not make sense. Upon zooming out, he expected to see the outlines of a table mountain or a mesa, which is what we've already talked about. Instead, just dense jungle and vegetation. now Ben's initial excitement hoping he had reached an easy case closed moment was quickly replaced by bewilderment he was left scratching his head where is the plateau this unmistakable shape of a tabletop mountain he was certain that he was missing something and decided to search the area to provide more answers the area of Kuru Pira with various elevation points and this is the part where it gets really interesting. So if we take the map in the book, again, guys, get the link down in the show description, we go from Puerto del Maloca, and you go 25 miles, then you're going to reach the western edge of that thing. And whenever he did that, he found, again, that this is only 154 meters here. This is 188, 505, but he has this 1018 right here, but it's not one of these signature tabletop tapuies. So he almost said phooey on the tapuie. So there's no like answer to why that that's like that? Geographically, it's just the way that the land works. And this is part of the mystery that he had to unravel because it was called a tapuie, meaning that this should look a little bit more like this, like this isolated where it's got a real tall point, but then it goes very flat around, very consistent elevation, 500 meters, 100 meters or so. But these things jet up and then are surrounded on all sides at that height. If you think of Angel Falls or something like this, here you go. Here's a picture of it in the next chapter. So you have these straight vertical escarpments. And this turns out to be one of the challenges in the book, The Lost World as well. Conan Doyle, they had to climb up a stovepipe that's on the side of the thing. And it was this crazy adventure. Then they found a cave that led them out. But again, caves exist in these areas as well. But if you're to come across one of these in the jungle, you've got to go up this vertical cliff face. And a lot of them kick back at the tip. See how they curl back like that? Yeah. It's this very interesting feature. But if you were just to approach this from the side and see it, you would just say, well, that's another one of those Tipuys. If you walk all the way around one of these things, They're 100% some of them are 100% like this all the way around. And unless you walked all the way around this thing, you would just hit this barrier and assume that you'd hit one of these Tupuis. So it turns out that geographically it's misidentified. And so that was part of the challenge that Ben had to figure out and unravel. Right. Again, misidentified or covered up. Yep, exactly. The nuanced description of the terrain provided by Mares, as mentioned earlier in this chapter, seemed to align with the topographical information. However, at the point of approximately 25 kilometers to the east of Porto de Malka, there is a dramatically steep cliff with a high peak of approximately 1,018 meters. If we recall from the works, Mares said that the western part of Curupira is lower and easily accessible and has nothing to do with the Indian legends about the demon in the forest. And indeed, the two westernmost points on the map in the book here are significantly lower at 505 and 582 meters to be precise. Thus, the region that Mares believed to be the real Kurupira, according to the Waikolet indigenous folklore, rises like an inaccessible fortress only in the easternmost part of this plateau. So his description corresponds to the peak that Ben found of 1,018 meters shown on the topographical map. It also perfectly matched the topographical indications of the Tapui's altitude, which according to Mares is slightly over 1,000 meters. Furthermore, to the north, the ground gradually begins to recede again. Ben now felt more certain than ever that the area that had been identified in these modern maps must be the real location of Kuru Pira. And let's end it there. We're going to pick this up on the next show. So if you guys want to know more about this, and you do, we haven't even gotten to the mysterious creatures. There's all sorts of other stories in here and accounts. And the location and mapping and how he was able to discover this is fascinating. Because even in the book, it talks about that the compass is confused. The points on the compass are confused when they're talking about the map. And Ben was able to take that information, find a map, figure it out, and turn it, and make it aligned properly. It's these type of little things. This is a true investigative work. It's a true detective story, ironically inspired by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who wrote Sherlock Holmes. But it's not about Sherlock Holmes. It's about an adventure in the South American jungles. It's such a bizarre interaction going on here, but it's an amazing story. So we're going to continue it on Tuesday's show. You guys stick around for the extension for sure. And then of course, sign up in the link down below so that you can join us for plus and you can finish things like this. Cause there is so much more to the story, man. So I'm very much looking forward to kicking this over into the next plus show. So you guys join us for that. And yeah, we haven't even found out what you're going to talk about in the extension. Do you want to talk about that? We just got a got into this shit. No. Yeah. I can't wait to hear more about this. Cause we, yeah, you have a lot more to go with this, But coming up in plus, we're going to be going into the cellular cosmogony by Cyrus Teed. This was originally published in 1898, and it's very controversial. So that's why I'm doing it in plus. But thanks to Mark for emailing in this recommendation. I've never heard of it. It's basically the idea that the Earth is a concave sphere. Oh, I love this one. Weird idea. The core idea is that the universe is a closed, finite cellular structure, and humanity exists on the inner surface of that structure. So it's not flat Earth. It's not, it kind of goes, it's more like Hollow Earth, but not in the way you'd think. So I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but it's an old-ass book. So I thought this would be fun to go into. Again, thank you, Mark, for sending that in. And yeah, stick around and plus for that. Otherwise, we'll see you next week. That is right. We will see you next week and stick around for the extension. Thank you again for signing up for the Plus Plus members. And Ben Tejada Ingram, thank you so much for writing this work, for being awesome, for exploring, for really doing a tremendous job. Not only with the writing of the work, but the exploration process that it took to get you to the understandings that we were able to glean from this. So, again, guys, so many links down below. And we're going to continue. So some of the links won't even apply to this section. But get excited about them and join us for Plus and come hear the rest of this story. because it's absolutely amazing. Thank you again, Joe. This was awesome. We will see you in the extension. Welcome to your plus extension.