The Surprising Leadership Secret That Transformed My Life and Business | Winn Claybaugh | Motivation | E38

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Hello, my name is Tim Story. Welcome to MiracleMetallity. Remember rooftops, drawing spaceships on the ground. It's for the dreamers, the doers, the believers in something greater. In each episode, I'll invite you to rise above the mundane, to push past the messy and learn to live boldly in the miraculous. Every episode will have practical wisdom, spiritual insight, and my guests will explore what it takes to activate your Miracle Mindset. Remember to subscribe, follow, and like. Welcome to the MiracleMetallity podcast. I want to thank you guys for continuing to watch. And you've made us in the top 10 in the categories where I like to be in the top 10. And when you think about it, you have hundreds of thousands of podcasts. And to be there is not by accident. It's because you guys are telling people. So continue to like if you could, subscribe, and also comment. Today's guest is literally one of my best friends. Someone that I love to be around. We've learned from each other. We've been around each other a long, long time. And his heart is amazing. His mindset is amazing. And I've really come to love his family in a wonderful way. And we'll talk anywhere from his mother to his children to his partner. And he just has a great group of people around him. So let me just give a formal when Clay Ball will be coming up. He is the author of Be Nice or Else. He is a host of the very popular masters by when Clay Ball podcasts, which has been going for 30 years. So there's a lot of podcasters today, but he has been going 30 years strong. And according to Larry King, and I agree with this, he is one of the top speakers that we have literally going in the world. So he's also co-owner and Dean of Paul Mitchell Advanced Education and Franchiser of more than 100 of these amazing establishments. And so when Clay Ball is a mentor, a teacher, a lover of human beings and good to see you, my good friend, when Clay Ball. Thanks, Tim. I want to ask you a question about the early days. I like to talk about in life some things we decide, some things we discover. When you were in high school senior year, what were you even considering becoming? Did you want to go to college? Were you wanting to join the military? What were you thinking of doing? When I was a senior in high school, my parents moved to Utah. I grew up in California and somehow I talked them into leaving me behind. So literally a senior in high school, I had my own apartment, had a job, had a car, which was pretty unusual. And then barely attended school. Yes. So how I even graduated, I have no idea. I barely, and I mean barely graduated from high school. Yes. But my intention, my mindset where this came from was always I was going to be an entrepreneur. I always knew that I would do something for myself. I knew that I would not fit into that traditional work environment where I was going to be answering to somebody else. Yeah. I knew your mother for years. She's in heaven now. One of the greatest ladies and you'll talk about her later, I'm sure. But tell me who else was in the house? What was the house like as you were growing up as a young person? I'm one of eight kids. From my father, I learned an incredible work ethic. I learned how to hustle. I learned discipline. I learned compromise and sacrifice and giving up whatever you needed to to be a good provider. My mom was the most kindhearted woman ever. I don't think I ever remember her speaking ill of anybody. Always just from that loving place. Good moms, all they have to do is give you a look and you know, you don't want to break mom's heart. So you do what mom wanted you to do. And so she taught me to be nice side of me, the kindness and then to implement that into business was my gosh, the best experience, the best gift ever that she gave me. Did the house feel cramped and crowded or did it still feel like you had room to maneuver when you have that many people in that one house? We were certainly not a wealthy family by any means, but it didn't ever feel cramped. In fact, not only did we have that many kids, eight kids in the family, that was the gathering spot. My parents were smart enough and now that I'm a dad, you realize you want that to be the place where all the friends come. So my parents always knew where we were. And so not only was it us, but everybody had tons of friends that would all gather there. And all my friends today are saying, yeah, when we went to high school, that's where we hung out was at your parents' house. I think one of your strengths that I see as a friend is your individuality and your very authentic. Was it hard to capture your own voice when you have so many siblings? Because I think many, many times I'm the youngest of five. It would have been very easy for me just to mimic my brother from his music style or what he liked. How were you able to find your own voice? You know, I think that confidence that my parents instilled in me. But again, that came from working hard, having responsibility, but it also came from self-esteem, building confidence in me. And I pursued music and I pursued all kinds of different things and always, always felt like I had that support from mom and dad. I want to talk to you today a little bit about the stages of life. So many psychologists have written about this before. I've been really doing a deep dive on this for about seven years, but from birth to 20, they call that stage one. 20 to 40 is stage two. So the birth to 20 is very, very important. And as you know this, and even raising an amazing daughter, from like birth to even about seven, you see that they're starting to pick up a lot of things from the parenting, the tutors, the mentors. And that's why you are very careful of who you bring around your daughter. Okay. So for you, if we take Win Clay Ball from birth to age eight at six, seven, eight, what's starting to go through your mind? You are loving animals, you're loving people, you're loving art. What are you loving? All of the above. But I also knew that I was different. I always knew that somehow I was different from my siblings. To this day, I feel like I'm different than my siblings. Yeah. I mean, this in a boastful way, but I'm the provider for the family, so to speak. I have my own company and most of my family members or many of my family members, siblings and nieces and nephews have worked for me or still worked for me some for 40 years have worked for me. And so I always knew that in some ways I was different, but that difference also came with a burden, a responsibility. Yes. That responsibility on my shoulders, like I need to step this up. So when one gets a knowing like that, which our friend Oprah would call an aha moment. How did you start to realize that I think I'm the one? I've asked many, many people this, including your friend, Magic Johnson, that a lot of leaders, even when they're little, they know, I think I'm the one. I'm the one that's going to have to get people up and out so I can get through the break so they can have a breakthrough. When did this awareness start to really happen? I've never heard it put that way. Yeah. But as you're saying it in my mind, I'm thinking that absolutely was me at a very, very young age. I already knew that that was in me. And so not that it kept me from making bad decisions and stupid mistakes. I'm 23 years clean off of drugs. And so absolutely I took those horrible paths as well. But always, always in the back of my mind, I knew not because of anything that I did, maybe call it grace, maybe call it this knowing that you have that. Yeah, you're here along with everybody else, but there's also an added sense of responsibility. I love what you say that even with grace because we're both people that respect the things of God, but yet we're both not overly religious. Both of us are non-judgmental. Both of us are very inclusive. We love all people. And I do believe when, and even the way you treated your mother for so many years, is that grace of God was on you to lead. But tell me a time, so we talked about the first phase of life is your birth to 20. Tell me a time in your early 20s where you decided, you know, I probably need to kick this into a better gear. There's some areas of my life that I need to deal with. And one reason I ask that question, because when we go on tour and we're speaking to the schools and many of them you're part owner of for the Palmichol schools, is that you have a way to love the student, but also challenge them. Give me a time in your early 20s where you felt the need to challenge yourself. I was probably as close to being suicidal without actually being suicidal. Meaning I just was miserable. But I knew better. I knew there was something in me that said this is not how it's supposed to be. And so I became this, for lack of a better term, a stalker of motivational speakers. I'm not a big reader. I wrote a book, but I don't read. And so the way I gained knowledge and gained experience was subscribing to mentors. And it was in that process of bringing on so many mentors and listening to so much of their information. The only way that I could validate that and put it to practice in my own life was to talk about it. And when I started talking about it, hey, I just went to this training, this retreat, and this is what the mentor said to me. And I'm trying to repeat everything that they said. Yes. All of a sudden I realized I was capturing people's attention. They were tied to the words that I was sharing that I was speaking. And so that in itself, again, by grace, it was a gift that was instilled in me that I have this power with my words to move people, to get people to take action. And I took that very, very seriously. Yeah. So you say something within the ballpark of if you aim at nothing, you're going to most likely hit nothing, but really aiming for the right things and hitting the bullseye. When do you think you started to get into alignment for your assignment? Not that you knew you were going to be when clay ball, who is a household name, mostly in the industry that you're in. Anybody I talked to in the hair care business. It's amazing how many people know you that have nothing to do with palmitchell. But when did you start to get in alignment to your assignment where you said, okay, maybe I'm a businessman. Maybe I'm a leader of leaders. When did that start to unfold? When I started figuring things out for myself when all of a sudden I started putting into practice. I remember specifically where I was New Year's Eve 1990. Yeah, I could have made the decision as I had in previous years and as maybe many of my friends made that decision to spend New Year's Eve drunk in some bar and some club. That's how you usher it in. I purposely knowing that it was going to be a brand new decade, a new millennial, so to speak, that I needed to spend it surrounded by the right people. And it was actually I was at a retreat with Marianne Williamson where it started at 11 o'clock at night at the stroke of midnight. The curtains open this full gospel choir singing. And that's how we rang in New Year's Eve 1990. And it was just, I just knew that that's where I was supposed to be. And that was the path. That was my journey that I was going to use. I was going to grow my circle of influence. Now, of course, I just said to you that I'm 23 years clean off of drugs, meaning after that time, I then chose that path. But to this day, I don't regret that. I'm so grateful that I have that as part of my story as well, because I know that every part of our story sells hope to somebody else. I believe that the best leaders, the best mentors, the best entrepreneurs, the best parents, the best teachers are storytellers. And the best stories that we tell are our own stories. I love telling other people's stories. I love telling the stories of my mentors and what they've been through and what they overcame because that's inspiring as well. But when we tell our own stories, my gosh, that's just what that's so good. And yes. So to shout out to Marianne Williamson, she famously has written the course and miracles and me and her have been on many, many stages together. So she influenced you at that event. But then it happens to everybody, as you know, now you need course correction and that doesn't happen overnight. Okay. So what I want to do is I want to fast forward, then I'm going to backtrack. Okay. So I want to fast forward to you. I could be talking to you on the phone and you could be in the Palm Springs area and an amazing house. Then you had another amazing house in Southern California. And I won't name the exact neighborhood, but a great, great house. Now you have another amazing house here now. So you have a great life partner. You have an amazing daughter. So now that you see the leverage that life has given you and as a business owner of many, many businesses and doing well financially, did you have an inkling that this was possible? Did you have an inkling that was possible to live the way you live? 100%. Okay. Take us there. You know, some people say, I'll believe it when I see it. And I always felt like that was backwards. I'll see it when I first believe it. And I believed it way back then. So now when people are saying, gosh, did you imagine 40 years ago that you would have over 100 locations? My answer is yes. Of course I did. Yeah. I build upon that. But I've always surrounded myself with people who instilled that belief in me. I was never attracted to watching the real housewives. I was never attracted to Jerry Springer. A minute of that was just offensive to me. Not offensive in a judgment way, but literally like my, I would start to hyperventilate and my skin would crawl. My mom said that how she got me to eat breakfast was to tell me that that's what Walt Disney ate for breakfast. So even at a very early age, I was drawn to successful people who did really good things with their money and with their power and with their stage. That's super powerful. Yeah. Yes. So we look at this idea of some things in life we decide some things we discover. Talk to me about the discovery of you within what we would call the hair care business. But first I'm going to tell you a story about our friend. So Vidal Sassoon and I were eating on Canon Drive probably 30 years ago. Could you imagine with a pair of scissors learning from a certain mentor that he had that this is the first thing that took me into this field. I never saw the empire, but it started with a pair of scissors. Okay. So that was a little bit of a decision, but that was a lot of discovery as well. Talk to me about when you first got into this whole hair care business as we know when Clay bought today. I never had the desire to be a hairdresser. And I love sharing that that without the license that my students are going to possess one day attending my schools without the license that many salon professionals have today. What I've been able to achieve without that license is incredible. And I like having that back part of my story because then that gives them hope. Yes. And I have more than when has I have a license and nobody's ever said no to when nobody's ever said no to me. Nobody's ever said, well, show me your documentation here. Show me your degrees that give you the credibility to do what you say that you want to do. Yes. And so the professional beauty industry always embraced me that way. But the journey to get there was again just mentors. I'm a product of my mentors. And I can tell you for a minute, for a minute, and I can tell you who the person was where I thought that if I'm going to be successful, I have to be the smartest person in a room. And I remember walking into a room sitting down and and somebody a famous hairdresser started talking and I'm thinking he's only a hairdresser. Yes. Then he starts talking business and I'm thinking, my gosh, this guy is so smart. I'm never going to be successful because I'm not as smart as he is. Yes. And that lasted for about a minute. And all of a sudden I realized that because of other good mentors that came along and taught this to me that I don't have to be the smartest. I don't have to be the most talented. Yes. I don't have to be the prettiest person in a room. Yep. And how many people are held back by thinking that they have to be one of those things on the list in order to be successful and thank goodness that that didn't last long with me. And what I realized was I just need to be a product of my mentors. I need to surround myself with incredible, amazing, amazing people. I'm proud of the fact that I had people who had been with me for 30, 40 years. Yes. They don't want to go anywhere. I love that people say, my gosh, this is the best job I've ever had. This is a culture that I really believe in. I feel like I found my place because I came and worked with you. Yeah. And I find that to be very unusual. And that's why I've always teased with you. I always have like a pastoral gift of mentoring people from your relatives to even a lot of people that have gone through trouble in the industry that you're in and really caring about them and trying to get them back into the other world. You and I have lots of those conversations as well. Yeah. 100%. Okay. So when help me with this. So Malcolm Gladwell talks about it takes roughly 10,000 hours to be a master at something. It takes the right tutelage mentorship. So when you realize that you wanted to get into this business of the whole hair care world, you get into the palm of the world. How then do you start to get trained? What's the early training that now leads to where we are today? By doing exactly what we're doing right now by being a speaker, by having a voice, by having an opinion, by doing lots and lots of studying, both through reading or podcast. Or mentors or these kinds of conversations. You know, when you and I get together, I'm constantly drilling you. I'm asking your opinion. I'm asking for your advice on life stuff. Because that's, I feel like what becomes then part of my carpet bag that becomes now part of my dialogue of what I share with other people. Yeah. And I challenge, I remember having my first group of franchisees, new palm of the school owners at the first training. Yeah. And maybe a group of 50 of them. And the first thing that I challenged them was, you're all going to become motivational speakers. You know, of course, now they tell me half of them wanted to run out of the room. You know, they say that that's the number one fear is public speaking. And number two fear is death by fire. So you can imagine how they felt in that moment. But I truly believe that it's because I became a speaker. And that was the first thing that I set out to do. I didn't set out to learn anything about the palm of the products. I didn't set out to learn anything about finance or HR or payroll or operational. First thing that I set out to do was to become a really good speaker. And I think any good entrepreneur, because you and I know brilliant talented people that can't get anybody to buy into their ideas because they don't know how to move people. They don't know how to share a vision. And I think that that's just the best skill that I could have developed. And I'm so glad that. And it was because of people like John Bradshaw and Louise Hay and Marianne Williamson. Yes, I was so in awe of Ag Mendino and Leo Buscoglia. I love that you're saying all these things. I love these people. And I could quote them. I could tell you when I was sitting in an audience with Louise Hay and somebody raised their hand and asked a question. And I could. This is 30 years ago. I could tell you what the question was. I could tell you how Louise answered the question. I could tell you the reaction of the audience of how it was uncomfortable and how Louise handled all of that. I mean, I was just fascinated by all of that. Thank you for watching the Miracle Mentality podcast. So many of my friends are texting me, DMing me, speaking to me and saying, Tim, thank you for these great guests that you're bringing on. So share it with somebody, a friend, a family member, a colleague, and then make sure and reach out to us at TimStoryOfficial and let us know that you love what we're doing. Thank you for being a part of this movement. Okay, give me the strength of your skill set. So the strength of my skill set would be, I'm a good listener, as you know, because we're friends. I'm very good at being empathetic, seeing somebody where they're at. And also I'm very good at finding solutions. So that's a strength of mine. A weakness of mine would be, I'm too kind sometimes, so I'd be taken advantage of. I did have a weakness in the area of understanding money because it was never really taught to me. So in my early 20s, mid 20s, even into my late 20s when I started making more money, I had to bring in a team to help run it at first, but then to educate me. What would be, in your opinion, a strength of your skill set and a weakness of your skill set that you continue to work on? My strength would be finding really good people. And doing whatever I need to do to have them become loyal to the vision, to the culture, to the company, to whatever it is that we're doing. I'm really, really good at that. I'm good at helping people find a home. And I'm proud of that. My weakness would be in probably everything else that has to do with running a business. They don't give me a key to the building. They don't want me hanging around in the accounting department. They rarely ask me my advice on things like that. I'm aware I know what's going on. I know enough to be able to inspect and have an idea of what's going on in my company. But those are my weaknesses and there's a lot of them. Yeah, but I don't think that anybody would see that from the outside because you're the one that brought me into the schools and I've now spoken at 38 of the schools. You're seen as the father of the schools. And I see the students look up to you, the leaders looking up to you. So I don't think they see that at all. But please help the listener and the viewer understand what a Paul Mitchell school is and what we do. I opened up my first cosmetology school 40 years ago. And then 25 years ago, I went into partnership with John Paul DeGioria. So he's one of the co-founders of the product company. Yes. He's the guy with the ponytail that you see in the commercials. He's an amazing, amazing man. He's been a wonderful partner, a wonderful friend and a mentor. Yes. And together we started opening up. Originally the goal was we're going to have seven locations and then of course we opened over 100. It happened very, very quickly. Was it John Paul who was thinking that it would be as low as seven and that's not to put him down because we both know he's a big thinker. Or was it you who was thinking it would only be seven? You know, that's a good question. And by the way, we never formally marketed. We never went to a franchise convention to try to sell the palmitches school opportunity. It was all organic. It was all through relationships. And a lot of it was because obviously everybody knows John Paul and knows the palmitches company. But as I shared earlier, I was hustling. I was on the road. You would think we're opening up schools on teaching people how to cut hair and color hair. That the first thing that we would need to release would be a cutting curriculum. It's not the first thing that release. The first thing that we released was culture. It was culture. Where's your cutting curriculum? We don't have one yet, but we're going to teach you about culture. Statistically, they say 50% of people who quit their jobs did so to get away from a toxic culture. Yes. Did so to get away from a toxic bond. And I have this in my notes because I think that even by me visiting the 38 schools I've been to, when you talk about looking and you see these things about be awesome. And the title of your book, Be Nice or Else. But on all these schools throughout the nation, I think maybe we have one or two overseas. We do. Okay. All right. So tell me about where this started to come of these mantras of excellence and going beyond and dreaming. And you actually like almost spoke it into existence. And then the students wanted to try to step up to that standard. It was because I came from that place of desperation. What do they say? You're motivated through inspiration or desperation. Yes, true. Again, back to the mid 80s. Now, I was already in business. I already own salons and schools, but again, I was desperate and miserable. And by learning what I needed to learn to pull myself out of that, of course, you know, once you have that gift and you see there's hope in your own life, how can you not want to share that with other people? And then when I realized that not only is that good for my personal life, it's actually a good recipe, a good platform, a good stability for a successful business as well. My gosh, because you and I have done that. We walked into successful businesses where you know of their billions of dollars, you know of their reputation and their marketing. You walk in and it's just toxic. But why? It doesn't have to be that way. Yes. You walk in and there's a hierarchy and everybody fears the boss. Everybody hates the boss and they don't share with each other. And there's no such thing as feeling safe or that you belong or that you have a purpose. I'm here for one thing and that's just to get a paycheck. Right. You don't bring out the best in each other and it doesn't have to be that way. Yes. So I knew if we started with all of that, if all of that was the priority and I had people, of course, we're very proud of the cutting curriculum that we have. Yes. We're very proud that we have beautiful first class facilities and you've been in a lot of them. Oh, yeah. But you ask any of my graduates and I'm 99% confident, ask them, tell me about Palm Mitchell School. They'll say, oh, it was the culture. It was the culture. Every time. I mean, I just had my eyebrows done just a couple of days ago by a Palm Mitchell alumni. And I was recently in Las Vegas doing an event and went to get my haircut and started bragging about you. And the ladies says, oh my God, when clay ball, I went to the Las Vegas school. But this is like everywhere I go where I see our alumni. So of the schools that teach people to do what Palm Mitchell schools do. It seems like somehow you guys became like the standard. Okay. How did that happen in your opinion? There's been other great ones, but you guys became the standard that go to Palm Mitchell School and you're going to be treated like you're excellent and you're going to come out walking in excellence if you choose to. It started because of the culture that John Paul himself set up with the product company, which has been around for over 40 years to I mean, he'll tell you stories of not even being able to pay his own bills. But of course they were always looking for ways to give back and make a difference. And so we started off our schools that way as well. You know, I'm proud to say that in the last 22 years, we've raised over $27 million for a variety of different causes. Yes. And that's by $5 at a time, $10 at a time, very, very grassroots. Maybe I told you the story. Our school in Orlando to raise money decided that they were going to have a topless car wash. And so they promoted topless car wash. So of course everybody showed up. But what it meant was they didn't wash the top of your car. You had to pay extra for that. You know, but they raised $1,500. And so when you have students, so they're brand new to starting off their career, but they're learning from day one that I need to be a contributor because we're all consumers. We're consuming. We consume oxygen. We consume water. We consume trees. We consume the paychecks of our customers who come in and buy our services and our product. We have to be contributors. And when they're learning that from day one, you come to work for Palm Mitchell schools. We're actively involved in making a difference in our communities locally and globally that completely changes the dynamic. That is so powerful because I think most people go singular, but your culture has always gone plural. So let me let me read a little bit about this. So in the nonprofits, what they've done, as he said, they've raised over $27 million in the last 20 years working with people like Dolly Parton, Magic Johnson, your great friend Betty White, Marie Osmond, who loves, loves, loves you, Gary Sinise, and what he's done, and so many, many other people. And it's a privilege for the last at least 15 years to be invited to the Gala's that you do in Beverly Hills. Now, so when you look at the nonprofit side of WinClayball, again, it's you loving the underdog. I want to know why you love the underdog because you do tend to look for people that have been through pain and you want to help them out. I look at even some of the speakers on the roster who speak at some of our schools. They're people that have had setbacks and then had comebacks. So you may get a little emotional here, but I need you to go there. Why is it that you, my real friend, why do you love the underdog? You're right. We do get emotional. I'm going to go back to that was something that was placed in my heart. And again, had a beautiful mother who just nurtured that and cultivated that and helped me develop that. Why do I have to go mow the lawn of the old lady down the street without pay? That was just something that we were raised with and taught. This is who we are. Yes. This is what we do. So why wouldn't we also do that in business? So I'm grateful. You know, I can share in it right now. I'd cry at the drop of a hat when we think about these things. I wouldn't know how to do it otherwise. Yeah. But you have the tendency to stick with people that have hurt other people. I've watched you do that because you know that there are more than the pain that they're exuding and the pain that they are creating problems because of what they are not dealing with. I've watched you do that over the years. What would that reason be? Because they're developing character. They're developing again their own personal story. And you know, on the other side of that story that come back as you so eloquently and brilliantly talk about the other side of that story is just going to be something that opens up. Wow. You know, sobriety is like a superpower overcoming any kind of difficulty in life, overcoming a nasty divorce becomes a superpower. Yes. And it absolutely because people will look at me like, well, you know, when he looks like he's doing okay. So maybe there's hope for me. Maybe I can become clean and sober. Yeah. If he did it, maybe I can do it too. And so I just love we sell all kinds of things as we should. I think money's a great thing. You know, people who say that they don't care to make a lot of money would lie about other things as well. I think that we should want to want to make a lot of money because that money gives us power to make a difference. I love this. But I think it is also an opportunity then to use that power in ways that are going to benefit other people. You are one of the most laid back, wealthy men that I know. You really are. And I know a lot of them from all over the world. You are very laid back. You like your restaurants. You like nice clothes, but you do not go overboard. Is that maybe your mother's voice still in your ear? Or what is the reason that you don't drive around in a brand new Rolls Royce right now? Oh, yeah. I know. My dad used to get so frustrated that, you know, why aren't you painting your bedroom? You know, dad, I could pay somebody. He would like fire the gardener every week because the gardener charged more than $2.50 to mow the lawn. And I go out there and remind the gardener, you're not fired. You're okay. You're okay. So I was raised that way. You're raised. We knew how to do everything. That's how my mom did eight kids. You know, we all knew how to cook. We all knew how to do our own laundry. We all knew how to change the oil in our car, change a flat tire, do construction. We had to learn how to do everything. Yes. Help me up with this idea. So we said birth to 20, first stage, 20 to 42nd stage, 40 to 60 seem to be a great run for you. Oh my gosh, the best. Okay. But at the same time, we still always go through recovery and discovery at the same time. So even though you are thriving 40 to 60, you are going, recovering of things, dealing with your mother, a lot of things that go on in life, dealing with relatives. Tell me why you think 40 to 60 really started to just flourish for you. And this is so many listeners and viewers right now really are paying attention because they're in that stage. Oh my gosh, just to have wisdom and what do they say? You can't Google wisdom. You can Google lots of things. Wow. But to have wisdom. My God, I was an idiot in my 30s. Yes. And so just to have that wisdom and just to be serene and things don't bother me as much as they used to and to just give people a break and just to let people be where they are and realize that that's okay and everything happens for a reason. I mean, those aren't just words anymore. You really feel the impact of that. This is all going to work out as supposed to be this way. Let that person go through all of that. Did you find when, when you were younger, that you were quicker to respond from your emotions and maybe as you got older and wiser, that maybe you were a little more slow to respond? Yeah, when you're younger, especially when part of my career, part of how I made money was I would paid to speak. So when you're paid for your words and for your opinion, you think that, well, then it's warranted everywhere at all times. If I disagree with you and you're a total stranger and I don't like how you're, well, then of course I'm going to speak up and just to know that, no, I don't need to do that. And I can just be okay and just be serene and just let things play out as they need to play out. And you said it earlier, you're a really, really good listener. I've had to work hard at being a good listener to not always be ready with my, my opinion. And because again, I've been paid to have something to say. Yes. And then there's the physical side of being in between your 40s and your 60s. You know, I've always tried to maintain a good balance physically and working out and good energy. I love having energy. I'm probably the oldest dad at my daughter's school and yet the other parents who are half my age can't keep up with me. You know, I'm the, I'm the room parent every single year, volunteer room parents every single year. And by the way, for years, I was the only dad is me and like 59 moms, which made me want to start drinking again, by the way. But, you know, and my 50s were really not that different than my 40s, but I will say my 60s physically are very, very different than my 50s. Yeah. And you and I, how many conversations do we have about, okay, here, here's a name, you know, try this, try that, you know, get longevity because we're chasing energy. 100%. So yes, it's in some ways getting older and that period in my life is, is wonderful because of maybe in my 30s, if I liked your shirt, I needed to have that shirt in every single color. Yes. Now, not only do I not want it in every color, I don't think I want the shirt. So just to have, no, I don't need a new car. I don't, I don't need all of those things. And I went to Palm Springs, I have a home out there and I went three days before the family got there for Thanksgiving. I spent three days purging. You would have thought I had a massage for three days, the relaxation of just purging, just getting rid of stuff just felt so wonderful. Yes. Okay, I want to go to a subject of Be Nice or Else, the book. I would say over 40 people that I life coach, I have had them get this book, Be Nice or Else, and then we walk through it. So I know it very, very well. Thank you. I honestly believe this is a must read because we're living in a time where we're so agitated by situations, circumstances, and even people. And it's so easy out of that agitation to have an incorrect response. When you think about Be Nice or Else, how can this type of philosophy add value to our lives, but also to society? Like anything that has value, it's a skill set that you have to learn. I think some people think that you're either nice or you're not nice. You're happy or you're not happy. And if you're unlucky to not be part of the happy group, there's nothing you can do about that. And of course we know that that's not true. Same thing with if I want to play the piano, I need great mentors, I need great teachers, I need to practice, practice, practice, practice. Same thing with being nice. It's a skill set that will serve you so well in so many ways, romantically, in friendship, and in peace of mind, and in spirituality, and in business and making money. But people just think, well, if I'm not naturally a nice person, there's nothing I can do about it. No, same as playing the piano or learning how to cut hair. Get great teachers, get great mentors, divorce yourself from the bad influences, which is why, again, I don't watch Jerry Springer or anything. Jerry Springer or those types of shows. I'm not attracted to those conversations. I purposely bring on great mentors. Again, I'm a product of my mentors. Yes. And you were talking about, you know, that sometimes I choose mentors who maybe who have physically overcome something. You know, our good friend, Cedric King, who lost both of his legs in Afghanistan. Yes. You walk onto a stage, you know, maybe you and I have to come on the stage and work a little extra harder to get the audience to believe that what we are about to share. What we are about to share with them has some value. He walks onto the stage without his legs and people like, okay, I need to shut up and listen. Yeah. This guy has something to teach me. So currently you write books, you run all these companies. I love that we dialogue in private that you're open to be on more stages. Okay. And so if you want to have win on one of your stages, I agree with Larry King. You're one of the best in the world of the way you present using practical advice, things that you've learned great wit and wisdom. So just reach out to him. We're going to give you all wins information in a little while, but I really want you as your friend to go there more getting on the stages and dialog with people. I think you're going to have, you've had fun doing it, but you're going to continue to have so much fun. Tell me one reason why you love the big stages because you've got me on a big stages like Hanzo and all the other ones. So many of them sport clip. You're the one set that up for me. Why do you like being on that stage and helping people? It's like in such a short period of time. So they give you 45 minutes. They give you an hour. Yeah. But it's an audience that is there for that purpose. They are there. They walk in like almost putting it all on you on the speaker. I want to laugh. I want to cry. I want to be moved. I want to leave here more inspired. So all of those expectations are placed on to you. I love that challenge. I love that challenge. In fact, I love it when people will bring me in and backstage to like, you know, when I've seen you in front of other audiences and I'm just telling you, our audience isn't like that. You know, they don't laugh. They don't cry. They don't engage. I'm like, okay, we'll see. Within five minutes, I've got them laughing. I got them crying. I got them hugging. I've got them engaged with each other. That's the best audience, the one that just hates you. Yes. Because usually I'm sure people say, well, I want to do what you do, Tim. And when they say that, that's you just walked off stage in front of 2000 people and you got a standing ovation. They're like, yeah, I want that. Well, no, let's tell you how you get there. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to ask you two more questions. At this stage of your life, what agitates you? There are things in my life that did not agitate me when I was 40 that agitate me now of the way the world is going and how people are treated and what agitates you. That we can't even have conversations anymore. That I will block you. I will delete you. I will unfriend you. You hear about all these kids who I've disowned my parents. I don't speak to my parents anymore. You know, they just think that because my parents voted differently or my parents have a different whatever. Yeah. That I can just cut people off. And I, when you're cutting people off, first of all, I've changed my religious beliefs. I've changed my political beliefs based on sitting down and having a great conversation over dinner. And that's usually how it was. If you're going to plan a dinner, you invite 20 people and you purposely want them to come from different backgrounds. Different lifestyles and different belief systems because that made it interesting. And by sitting down and having those conversations. So you know what? I never thought of it that way. And like I just shared, I've changed belief systems because of a wonderful conversation that I was allowed to have where I was safe to have. We're not even safe to have those conversations anymore. So powerful. So powerful. It's heartbreaking. It really is. And it's a, it's a big change from where we were raised and brought up, right? And I'm sure that you, even in your family, there was differences among siblings, but you felt like you could open up and converse about certain things. Okay. So I want to give you the stage just for a few moments just to just share what's on your heart. And then I'm going to ask you a final question. Okay. But just anything that's on your heart about life, choices, changes, sobriety, betterment, what's on your heart? Well, you know how to do it, don't you? Well, we love each other. What's always on my heart is being a good dad. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I think about a lot of stuff because I have a lot going on in my life, but what I am always, always, always thinking about is how to be a dad to a 13 year old girl. I mean, being a dad to a girl, I only have her. So I don't know what it's like to be a dad to a boy, but I just, it's all I think about. I just want her to be amazing. I want her out of, have a voice. I want her to be safe. I think about that a lot. Yes. And that has guided me in many other ways as well. Like a simple lesson of, and I remember when people used to say this, you know, let your know be a no and let your yes be a yes. Well, I didn't learn that until I became a dad. You know, my nose were never nose because I'll chase any opportunity. Yeah. You know, I'll sacrifice my health because there's an opportunity. Sure, I'll do that. Yeah. But when I'm sacrificing time with my daughter of being a good dad, no, my nose and no, I'm sorry, my no is a no. But then the flip side of that is, well, then my yes better be a yes. Because, you know, you get yeses from people and then you're like, where are they? I thought they promised. Why they, why didn't they deliver? Yeah. So becoming a dad made me really, really learn that lesson. There's no follow up question on that one when because that was, that's a standalone. And I think that's going to affect so many people. And I just want to say as a life coach, if you have not been a good dad, you can turn it around. Last question. What does leading with love mean to you? I see whether we're at a restaurant together around people, people approach you. Sometimes you're we're out together and people recognize you and you're so kind of people. What does leading with love mean to you? Being super, super present. And it's so easy to not be present, whether it's we're distracted by a cell phone. And again, I've learned that lesson. I'm a better boss because I became a dad. Yeah. You know, you have to be present. Yeah. I remember when I was, before my daughter was born, we made the decision that I was going to move my office to my home. I was still working just as much, but I had that opportunity to work from home because I didn't want to miss anything. But I was still working. My daughter was about four years old. She said, Daddy, you love your phone more than you love me. Wow. Lead with love. When what a conversation, so many people's lives will be changed by this talk. What is the best way for somebody to get your book, to ask you to speak, to be connected, to find out more about our schools? Notice how I say our schools. I feel part of the family. You are. What is the best? Is it your website? Yeah, my website, wincleyba.com, through my social media, it's all wincleyba. Yeah. So that's W-I-N-N-C-L-A-Y-B-A-U-G-H. Yes. And so you... By the way, I don't know if you... I personally respond to all my DMs, all my emails. I don't have an assistant that reads any of that stuff. I know that. And I've always wondered where you got the time. You know what? I just felt like that's what got me to where I am today, that I've always been approachable. I've always been available. And I just... Yeah. There's just a part of me that doesn't ever want to let that go. So... Yeah, so wincleyba, that's W-I-N-N-C-L-A-Y-B-A-U-G-H. And find all things WinCleyba. So I just want to say everybody that is listening and watching, this is why I do this podcast. This is why he does his podcast and makes sure to continue to watch his podcast called Masters by WinCleyba been going for about 30 years. And it's fantastic. But look at this conversation. Look at all the takeaways that you could have. I want you to make sure and share this and make sure and comment about what you learned from Win and I on this conversation between two best of friends. And also continue to like, subscribe and continue to tell a friend. And I think Win would really agree with this. You may not be what you want to be, but thank God you're not what you used to be. Don't you dare ever put yourself down. We're on your side. I'll see you next time. I invite you to carry that miracle mentality forward. Visit me at Timstory.com. That story with an E-Y on the end. Until next time, walk by faith, embrace possibility and create your own comeback story.