Rosie Perez is Still Doing the Right Thing

When I saw the five-year-old. Liam. That's what broke me. Yeah. That's when the tears came. Because I have a grandson. I couldn't imagine the fear that little kid was going through. That blank stare of shock that he displayed, that's what broke me. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Best People Podcast. This is a first. The best people are always iconic. They're always brilliant. Sometimes they're really, really funny, but never before have I brought you someone who is also one of my best friends. This week's guest is an icon in her own right, nominated for every award that exists, Oscars, Emmys, you name it. She's made all sorts of firsts, but she's also one of my dearest friends. And that's hard as women in jobs like these. I want you to hear from her as much of the time as we have together. I hope it's her voice, her wisdom, her laugh. So without any further ado, this is The Best People, and this is my dear friend, Rosie Perez. Hi. Oh my gosh, hi. Hi. Oh my God. Do I have to give you like a C note for that introduction? I mean, I've never had anyone that knows me well enough to crack me open. And I think because it makes me nervous, right? So you're obviously one of the best people I know. You were on all of the earliest lists of the kinds of people that we would want to bring in. But you know me too well, so I waited. But you're here now. I'm so happy. Me too. Me too. I mean, I guess the first thing is our origin story. And I have to say that you're too deep and real for it to have been like love at first sight. I think we kind of endured something fucking crazy the first day in the first week. But I feel like it took longer to earn your trust and to become friends. But I tell two stories about The View. When WHIP was out and we were sort of holding it together, and I think they were like on the street looking for anchors before they thought I could do it. And you one day walked out and I remember you saying to someone, she's gonna be a fucking anchor someday. You guys are idiots. And you left. Yeah. And I sat there and was like, wow, I don't think anyone's ever advocated for me the way Rosie just did. I left because I said, if you don't make her the point person, then I'm out. And then I told everyone they were fucking idiots. That's what, yeah, I did. I said, she's going to be an anchor. I said, you're going to feel really stupid. And what could you do now? But it wasn't like, I would never have said that and advocated for myself. Politics is all sort of behind your back, behind, you know, and this was just a world I didn't really know that much about. And I'd never seen anyone sort of use their power for somebody else like that. Thank you for doing that. Well, it's my pleasure. I don't do it for everyone. It's just when it's well-deserved. Yes. I'll tell you when things changed between you and I. It was for me, I made a statement about George W. Bush, right? And you kind of smirked my way and I go, what? And it wasn't a great comment. Let's just say that. And you said, I bet if you met him in person, you would like him. I said, no, I wouldn't. You can go, yes, you would. I said, no, I wouldn't. You said, yes, you would, because you are much more of a moderate than you want to admit you are. And I went, oh shit, she figured me out. I mean, it takes one to know one. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then you said, you see both sides of the argument. And that's when I started looking at you differently. I just was like, wow, because somebody else, if they would have presented that statement to me, I would have maybe taken it the wrong way, but there was, it wasn't combative in any kind of way. There was no agenda behind it. It was just a funny statement that held truth. And so I remember I looked at you and I went, yeah, I don't know. And you started laughing. Well, because someone else there was so agitated by the idea that behind these policies she hated was a human being. And I mean, that's Rosie O'Donnell, obviously. And I'm not a Republican anymore, but being a Republican and moving to New York and going to the view as a person that there was some preconceived notion that I was always going to carry the Republican water at the time that the Republican Party was being taken over by Donald Trump. Like in some ways, we were like a canary in the coal mine, right? And I get fired because I wasn't Republican-y enough, which is funny to me because George W. Bush, when I first moved to New York, was loathed for a lot of decisions that were very unpopular. That's an end of the statement. Right? And I also remember, you know, I got fired in Variety. And I remember calling her and I said, is it true? And you're like, of course it's true. It's fucking Variety. Like, I don't know. but it was such a journey you know it's funny though it's like we're talking about not being so absolute that's what the problem is right now is everybody is so polarized and no one can see the gray area and the gray area is what used to make us great it's also where like 90 of people live right like yes like most americans are not able to say i hate everyone that voted for Trump because they've got a partner or a parent or a boss, or they have to live in a world. And I'm hard lying on what I think Republicans have done, but you can't go about your life. You can't cut out from your life, everyone who voted for someone that you didn't. I agree partly with that statement. I think that that probably holds true for the people who are in office, Republicans that are in office, but we're starting to see that even there's cracks there. And from what I see on the ground, because I go into neighborhoods that nobody wants to go into, even when I campaign for Mikey Sherrill, which people are like, what the hell are you doing? Unless we have to have her win. And I'm going into these neighborhoods. And even when I was on the campaign for Kamala, which was, I'm just going to be honest, it wasn't a good campaign. And I told you that. And you told me that. And I didn't want to hear it. You didn't want to hear it. Nobody wanted to hear it from me. Remember I said, She's going to lose. And the calls. And you knew it on the calls. I knew it on the calls from what people were telling me because I have learned through people who are MAGA in my family and some people who are friends. I have learned to stop yelling. And I've learned to listen more. And when I was on those calls and I'm listening to people who are Democrats and independents and Republicans, they were all saying the same thing. They wanted the same thing. It was the economy, stupid. That was it. Nobody cared about social issues or anything like that. They were struggling and they wanted something to change on that level. That was it. That was it. And it blew my mind that so many people were on the same page, regardless of party. And I just kept trying to tell the campaign that and nobody was listening to me. How do they feel now? I've gotten apologies. Not from everybody. But I've gotten apologies. How do those voters feel now, though? If the economy was what they wanted, do they feel? They feel disappointed. They feel disappointed because they truly believed in Trump and saying that on day one, he was going to fix the economy. And that is not the case right now. So they feel disappointed. And that's even some of the MAGA in my family. You know, I have one particular MAGA person in my family, you know, she told me the other day, all right, listen, I'm just going to be honest. I said, what? And she goes, I don't agree with everything that this man is doing right now. And I went, oh my God, what date is it today? I'm going to write this down. She goes, if you keep on, I'm going to hang up. I said, okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry. And the number one issue was the economy for her. It was the economy. And then the second issue, to my surprise, was ICE. I said, really? Because that was the second reason why she voted for him. One was the economy, second was immigration. And so my point is, is that there's so many Americans to each other. And that is a disservice to us as a nation. It really, really is. Because if we start to figure out that we're having common ground, we could work from there. Like to everyone's surprise, I love Joe Rogan. And people go, oh my God, how can you love him? I said, he's great. He's great on the UFC. I just think he's a funny guy. And I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't agree with everything that he says, but that doesn't mean I have to hate him for it. And I hope he doesn't hate me because of my political views. But I sat there watching a clip of him saying the treatment of American citizens, even the treatment of undocumented, is going too far. My mouth just dropped on the floor. And I said, wow, this is great. And then someone says, are you shocked? I go, you know what? Not really, because I think he's a decent guy. And that's where we're at. Everyone is terrified right now. Everyone is terrified to speak their mind, to come on podcasts like these in fear of the consequences. And the consequences are real right now. You know, two people are dead right now. There's been multiple people who have died because of immigration and freedom of your right to protest and what have you. But to live in fear and not having the wherewithal to push through it is where we are right now. And that's why we're not moving forward as a nation. You know, the fear is real. The fear is real. But when I think about what history has taught us, you think about someone like Martin Luther King, right? He knew, he didn't know concretely, but he knew his day was coming because he took a stand. When I was listening to Terry Gross on Fresh Air, this is Terry Gross on Fresh Air. I'm sorry, I love how she said that. And Jane Fonda was on, you know, criticize her all you want, but at least this woman takes a stand. And in the interview, Terry Gross was telling her, oh my God, you're so brave. And Jane Fonda goes, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm not brave. I'm scared. Jane Fonda says she's scared. And she goes, but I'm more scared if I don't do something. And I think that if we all admit our fear, I think that we could really come to some place. And the fear is coming from both sides. It's not just from the far right. It's also the far left. And I know that's very controversial to say, but there it is. It's like, I'm afraid to say it. That's pathetic. You know what I'm saying? If I say one thing, the far right is going to call me a libtard, which I didn't know what that was. I had to find out what that meant. And then if I say something else, the far left is going to say that I crossed over or I'm a hypocrite Or how dare you? And both sides want to cancel me because I have an opinion. What the fuck is going on? I think that's right. And look, as someone who's out there 10 hours a week, you look at everything you say through that lens. And I guess the difference is a lot of the threats of violence that members of Congress say they face is from just one side, and it's the right. I'm not saying the two sides are equal. I am not. What I'm saying is that you could place blame on both sides. The degree of blame is not the same. I will give you that. The degree of blame is not the same. What about the ICE policies? What is your thinking about what's happening in Minneapolis right now? Well in regards to ICE I think that we do need a level of immigration enforcement I do believe in that I think that if we get rid of it entirely that like throwing the baby out with the bathwater That said having masked law enforcement is insane You think about all the dictators what history has shown us all their henchmen all their footmen Did they ever wear masks They've never worn masks. And in the United States of America, we have law enforcement that is being paid by our tax dollars wearing masks. We can't even tell who they are. And then making statements like, raise your voice once again and I'll erase your voice. It's like, what is going on? That's what I mean. It's like everything has gone way too far and it has resulted literally in the death. of two people and the shooting of many and people in the detention centers. And then there's no accountability. And then they're defying court orders and on and on and on. The insanity just needs to stop. It really does. And then if I say that I'm anti-American, if I say that I'm a libtard or libertard, however they want to call me, it's ridiculous. First of all, you know I'm not a liberal by any means. And so what's going on is really, really scary. It really is scary. And if you're not scared, take your head out of the sand and wake up. Really, it's terrifying. That's my opinion on it. And it goes back to forever of the need for immigration reform. You can't have ICE be the number one funded law enforcement in the entire nation. How many billions of dollars have they been given? Gazillion. Yeah. And you just can't do that and just give them this absolution of power. It's not American. It really isn't. And I have to say it again, people, you may disagree with me. That's fine. It's my right to say it as an American. We do need some type of enforcement on immigration. We do. And we do need to get hardened, violent criminals out of our country. We do. But somebody who has applied for asylum and is going to court and following the paperwork, you're really going to do that to them? You're going to put them on that same level? It's sad. It's really, really sad. And I've texted you. I'm crying. My husband goes, please, Rose, turn off the TV because I'm watching this and I'm literally sobbing. My friend Peter came over to dinner. He goes, you all right? I said, no, no, I've been crying all day. I've been crying all day. It's just, it's too much. I mean, I think that what people feel, when you look at the numbers just on the Trump side, the promise is to remove the worst of the worst. The worst of the worst are primarily in jail. They're adjudicated criminals. By and large, the people they're targeting at preschools and at landscaping jobs and at schools and in hospitals are not people who've committed any crimes, let alone violent crimes. And I think the people on the streets and Renee Nicole Good was blowing a whistle for the people sort of targeting people who are parts of our communities. But this issue of going into schools and using a five-year-old as bait and going into hospitals and people afraid to take their severely ill children to the hospital because they're afraid they'll get separated, either the child deported or the mother deported, or, you know, does feel like an effort to break the fabric of our society. Yeah. I think when I saw the five-year-old. Liam. That's what broke me. Yeah. That's when the tears came. Because I have a grandson. I couldn't imagine the fear that little kid was going through. That blank stare of shock that he displayed, that's what broke me. But I think that it really started when actors were calling me, asking me to stand up. And I said, well, are you going to stand up too? No, I can't because I have a deal in place. And I go, I understand. Explain that to me. They need to make a living just like you and I need to make a living. They have families. They have mortgages. They have car payments. They have insurance payments. And we don't get work on an everyday basis. You may get one, two projects a year, and the next year you may not work. So we're in an environment now that if you make a stand, if you speak up, that can be in jeopardy, right? So you may not work for one, two, three, four, five years. So that's where the fear comes in. And I don't judge it. I really don't. I understand it. I really do. And it's also just regular people too. Look at that guy that stood up to Trump in the factory, right? He got fired. He got let go. That's the fear. He's a regular Joe. That's what I'm saying. It's like, what's going on in America is terrifying. It's terrifying. You know, when I started in the AIDS movement, my friend and mentor, God rest his soul, Dennis DeLeon, I was berating another actor for not taking a stand in the fight against AIDS. And he came over to me and he put his finger in my face. He goes, who the hell do you think you are? Are you God? Are you judge and jury? You've just potentially lost somebody to the fight. You have to allow them to come to the table. You don't force anybody to the table. Did anybody force you? No. He goes, so who the hell do you think you are? Don't ever do that again in my presence. Ever, ever, ever again. You don't know what they're contributing or not. That's their path. That's their journey. They're going to have to stand up to God at the end of their life. But it's not your job. We're going to take a quick break here. When we come back, much more with my dear friend, phenomenal, iconic actress, Rosie Perez. Stay with us. Explain the internal process because I covered the Golden Globes where I thought it was notable, especially after all the big speeches in 2017, 18, 19, 20, including from Meryl Streep. Hollywood is crawling with outsiders and foreigners. And if we kick them all out, you'll have nothing to watch but football and mixed martial arts, which are not the arts. And there was obviously a different tone of the Golden Globes, and it happens the day after Renee Nicole Good is shot and killed by ICE. Nobody who won said anything about the people of Minneapolis in their speeches, and I thought that was newsworthy. Obviously, something shifts between the Golden Globes and the Grammys, And I know it's a different group of creatives in a different industry with different pressures, perhaps. But it seemed notable that one of the biggest winners of the night, one of the biggest winners of the year, Bad Bunny, uses his speech to say, ice out. Before I say thanks to God, I'm going to say, ice out. we're not savage we're not animals we're not aliens we are humans and we are americans what's going on behind the scenes that we don't appreciate i think what i've stated in the music industry is completely different than the television and film industry right and i also think quite honestly, it's an issue of access to the world. They have the world listening to them. Bad Bunny has the world listening to him. He is incredible. He really is incredible. And I also think it's part because he's Latino. It's the Puerto Rican spirit there as well. But then you look at somebody like Billie Eilish, she does it too. Lady Gaga. And Lady Gaga and everything like that, they have armies behind them of support where a lot of actors do not. I do have to say that, but I will give you that there are a lot of actors out there that are extremely privileged, extremely well-off, constantly working, and can afford maybe a couple of years of not working, but they're still fearful. I mean, if you're not in the industry, it's hard to understand what the changes in ownership mean for you, for creative people? What does it mean to have, I know Jane Fonda put out, you know, had a position about some of the mergers. What is the consolidation and the presence of really Trump-friendly people in the mix mean for actors? We don't know yet because we haven't seen anything concretely that would point to, ah, see, now they're in control. This is what's happening. I want to just wait and see, but it is troubling. It is very, very troubling. I mean, it's happening in our world too, obviously. And then also it's like fewer people making the bigger decisions. That's troubling. You know what I mean? So you don't have as many various different platforms that you can say, oh, they don't want me. Well, maybe this platform may want me or what have you. but I just want to wait and see what happens to see if that is the case but everybody in Hollywood is going oh my god what the fuck just to be honest they are they're scared everybody's scared I'm scared everyone's scared that's the whole thing is that you know everyone thinks like I'm talking to you and I look so brave I'm terrified yeah I'm terrified like the one comment will be taken out of context and attacked by the right and the left or both or all or none yeah yeah yeah And it's just like, you know, you take a chance. You take a chance and it is scary. Yeah. It is a scary place to stand in. Yeah. And, you know, and I just hope if anybody takes anything away from our conversation, it's what I went back to in the beginning. Even Martin Luther King was scared. It's not what you do or don't do because you're scared. It's like, it's baked in that we're all scared. It's a scary moment. And then what do you do while you feel afraid? Yeah. Yeah. Vote. Vote. And I guess I have covered the institutions, obviously, for the last nine years. And I watched one by one as they fell. For me, it was sad that the Republicans in Congress didn't believe anything they said they believed, right? And so for me, watching all the institutions fail, and Eric Holder said it in last week's podcast, that the Republicans in Congress failed. The Congress, by and large, failed. The Justice Department has fallen. The Pentagon appears to be falling under Hegseth. And so to me, to see the people of Minneapolis be the ones that say, this stops with us. And I don't know the minds of every single voter in Minneapolis. I'm sure they feel as you do, that we have to have, we're a country of laws. We have to have laws when it comes to immigration, but they're not targeting people who've broken any laws. They're just rounding up people who don't look like white people. That is what the people of Minneapolis have said, and they've drawn this line. To see them out there with literally whistles and cell phones in a span of 17 days, two of them pay with their lives It is a remarkable thing that as scared as we are we get to have this conversation We have all sorts of privileges of people out there walking the streets businesses that close and can really afford the losses but they close because it matters what's happening in their community. Does feel like a different story than the ones we've sort of told over the last 10 years. Yeah. Does it feel different to you? It feels completely different to me. I'm thinking back what you had asked me, what's the difference between the Golden Globes and the Grammys? I think that short period of time. Yeah, the country changed. The country changed. Yeah. You know, that short period of time, because I've recommitted myself. I told you this too. I've recommitted myself to the fight against AIDS by rejoining God's love we deliver, by advocating for safe sex. Still, people just don't get it. It boggles my mind. but also rejoining the Democrat Party in regards to getting the vote out, because at the end of the day, we have our voice and we have our vote and our vote is our voice. Right. And I just think that the price that those two individuals did pay with their lives, the price that the individuals, like you said, who got shot, who are suffering in detention right now, it has woken America up. It really has. It's made everyone get up and look in the mirror and say, man, what am I doing? What am I doing? And I think that whatever you're doing, you may not have to go out and protest, but you can go out and vote. Or you can cancel stuff. Like Scott Galloway has got all these things that you can do from your keyboard. And I think there are a whole bunch of people who are really afraid and who are now afraid for themselves and their kids to be out in the streets. because it's clear that ICE has no qualms using force. I think the reason the country changed is because the price of protests became clear. You could pay with your life, right? You could pay with your life. And I think that's what woke people up. The people are out there. It's also freezing. Like it's freezing in New York. It's whatever is 10 steps beyond freezing in Minneapolis. And they're out there every day. Every day. But I think that the space that I'm trying to understand better is what people can do in the safety or privacy of their own homes in terms of changing their spending patterns. Yeah, because brick and mortar is not really a thing as it was before. So you can't force companies to change. Like with the Jimmy Kimmel, it was, all you had to do was this. That was your protest. And no new, right? And nobody knew. Nobody knows your name. There's not going to be someone on Twitter or on Instagram saying, you piece of shit, you canceled Disney. You, you liberal, you are lefter. I feel like someone on the left has to like reappropriate. Like the right is so good with the smears that they just make you feel like an idiot. But I don't even know what the, like you call someone MAGA, they're happy, they're proud. Why are liberals so afraid of being called liberal? But people, I'm not a liberal. Why did that become so negative? Because of their campaign. They're just good at branding. They're not standing so much on a righteous level. Yeah, they're standing more on a cunning. I bet you this is going to work level. And, you know, I think the left has tried that and they failed miserably. you know you even mentioned to me you said you don't tweet as much as you used to I said yeah I do I still tweet boxing and you were like come on you know you were calling me on it and I said well you're absolutely right because for me it just wasn't effective and I was becoming a part of an algorithm that I didn't want to become part of and there were people who were on the far left who were telling me what to tweet and I'm like I'm not gonna tweet that you guys sound stupid But it's, I don't know. I don't know why they're better at it, but they are. They are. They are. They're good at the trash talk. What is your boxing world for people that don't know you in that world? I would say that there are a lot of things politically and economically that are changing in the boxing world right now. There's people who are advocating to eliminate or to amend the Muhammad Ali Act, which will hurt fighters immensely. So people know that I'm against that. They want to amend it so that it would benefit the promoter and managers much more than the fighters. And so that's why it was in place from the get-go. So that's really troubling to me. And that's like an old-fashioned sort of labor fight, right? Yes. Like if you are looking for like a parallel. Yeah. But with boxing, To me, boxing is so honest in its depravity. You know what I mean? I have learned in boxing to sit back and wait this out. They're going to come back around because they know that I don't have an agenda. I don't have a soapbox that I'm standing on outside of that soapbox advocating for the fighters. That's all. I am a super insane fan who wants to stand up for the rights of these people who are getting bashed in the face for our entertainment, who are literally putting their lives on the line for our entertainment. And so that's it. I say to myself, they'll come back around because what I'm standing on is you can't really criticize it. You really can't because I'm a fan who loves fighters and think fighters should get their due. In America, the one thing about sports, whether it be boxing or football or soccer or whatever, is that it's tribal. It's pure American tribalism, right? You're inside a stadium or an arena where you don't know who the hell has voted for who, right? It doesn't matter. It's suspended for a time. It's suspended. Everybody's there just as fans. Everyone's there just as Americans. You know what I mean? And that's it. But politics, get out of here. I want to see someone get punched in the face. You know, I remember even the Kamala campaign. I said, hey, I could get your ringside seats to this big fight in Las Vegas. You should go. Oh, no, we're going to have a voter registration booth there outside in the fight. What? But if they see that she's there, that she's enjoying and she's saying, yeah, I'm American. Let's put politics aside. I'm just here to enjoy the fight. People may look at her differently. No, that wasn't going to happen. Well, Trump understands what you just articulated. Trump is very smart. If you're going to give him something, say that he's very cunning. You know, he's there at the NFL. He's there at those fights. He's there at the UFC. He's going to be there at the fights now. He went to the US Open. Some people booed him, but it was a smart move. Who in the Democratic Party has that sensibility? That can go to a fight and sit there? Or that understands and appreciates its importance? Your silence answers the question. I mean, do you think there's anyone who could be made to appreciate? I mean, John Hellman always says this. Politics exists downstream from culture. Do you see anyone in the Democratic Party who sees it that way and could appreciate the importance of culture to prevailing in politics? I mean, you're campaigning for Mikey Sherrill. I mean, she and Abigail Spanberger are just one big. Yeah, those two women. Yeah. If they showed up at the fight, nobody would be like, boo, get out of here. Well, maybe there will be some booze, whatever. But they would accept them. It wouldn't be like, what the hell are they doing here? I would say that. I would say that about Josh Shapiro. I would say that about kind of Gavin Newsom. Some people don't take him at his word yet, but I think- Like they'd be suspicious that he was there because of the politics. Yeah, because of the politics. I know a person that nobody really talks about, Andy Beshear. Yeah. I think if he showed up, people would be like, hmm. People like him. Yeah, people like him. You know, he's a very likable guy. That's about it. That's a sad statement. When you campaigned for Mikey Sherrill, what was your pitch for her? My pitch for Mikey Sherrill was the economy. that was it. And you think that that's the thing that one unites people and two makes a difference for people that are sort of like that each side has their tribes. And for the people that are up for grabs, is it your argument that that's it? Economy, economy, economy. Economy, economy, economy. And the places that they sent me out to were from the middle class all the way to the poverty-stricken Latino and African-American neighborhoods and West Indian neighborhoods as well. Those are the places that they sent me to. The places that most celebrities don't want to go to. Like they want to be standing next to Cheryl. You know what I mean? They asked me, they go, Mikey, Cheryl, she's going to show up here. And then Obama's going to come. I go, no, I got to go to Perth and Boy. Right. I was like, what the hell is Perth and Boy? And they go, well, they have these. OK, I'm there. You know, none of the other celebrities. And when you knock on the door and you're like, hi. Sometimes I- Take me through a day in the life of Rosie on the campaign trail. Well, like when I went to Pennsylvania. I remember that. That, I'm knocking on the voice. I'm knocking on the voice. Hi. And to be quite honest, I'm terrible. You called me after those. Yeah. Oh, God. I was depressed. I think I was crying. I think I was crying on the phone. You knock on the door. You're terrified because you don't know who's going to answer. Just knocking on a door is scary these days. It's very scary. Because if it's not Amazon, they do not want to see you. They do not. right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it Amazon? Not exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, going into Latino neighborhoods, and it sounds shallow, but any Latino will understand. I go, my hair has to be done. I got to do my hair. You're running late. I got to do my hair. Leave me alone. I know what I'm talking about. And I need lip gloss, you know? And so it's knocking on doors. It's going to community centers. it's going to restaurants, dive diners, going to campaign headquarters, trying to reinvigorate the people there. You just want to say rah, rah, rah, let's go. And she won huge. Mikey Sherrill won huge. Yeah. And the thing is, when I went to these neighborhoods for Mikey Sherrill, there was a difference. People wanted to listen to me. A difference from 24 to 25. Yeah. Why? I think because what they may have voted for has not turned out the way they wanted it to. They got scammed. They were promised something and that promise has not been delivered as of yet, right? Even the canvassers, the people that are going to go out on knocking on the door when I went to Perth and boy, I wasn't going out with them and I'm trying to give them the rah-rah speech and they're like this, right? And I go, wait a minute, you don't want to talk to me. You don't want to hear me talk. You just want to get out there. And this girl goes, yeah, we're ready to go. And I went, what? There was a different type of surge, a charge. It was completely different. But you're speaking about both the campaign and the voters. Yes. Okay. Yes. The people that volunteered to go door to door for the campaign, there was a different sense of, we got this. We know what to say. We don't feel like it's doomsday. Where on the other campaign, it was. That was the feeling. Also, the people, they were leaning out their doors. They were rolling down their windows. So they were open. They were very open to what I had to say. Is that a Mikey Sherrill versus Kamala thing or 25 versus 24 thing? I think it's both. I really do. And also, not for nothing, because Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamburger, they were more centrist. They were more in the middle. They were slightly progressive, but they weren't far left. And I think that that's why the American people will be like, okay, I'll listen to you. My conversation with Rosie Perez continues right after the break. We'll be right back. Do you think Harris is far left? I want to be quite honest with you and it no disrespect to the former vice president I never got a hold on what she was I really didn I couldn figure it out I just being honest I think that her heart was in the right place I think she really cared for the American people. And what I was feeling on the ground and what I was feeling myself is nobody was really sure as what she stood for and who she was as a person. And I don't know why that was with Kamala. I really don't. Because she was exuding this joyfulness, this when we fight, we win kind of spirit. But yet something wasn't clicking. And I don't know what that was. There was something missing and I couldn't figure it out. And I usually can figure people out, you know? And I was just like, huh, this isn't good. So I hope whoever is going to be our next candidate is clear. You know, I think- You think that the nation is ready for a woman? I mean, I don't know. And after 16, I'm totally out of the prediction business. I do think there will be a woman. We're just going to run out of men. And anyone looking at what's going on now and is like, yeah, more of this, should have their head examined. I think your story of doing what you've always done, and you were involved with the AIDS movement at a point when it wasn't just not popular. It was viewed as a potentially risky association. It was viewed as a career killer. That's what it was viewed. And I was scared then, to be honest. Just sort of tell me how to scale that. Doing a thing that you're afraid of doing because it jeopardized your dream. I think some things are so true. Everyone's afraid, unless you're part of the 36% who approve of the job Donald Trump's doing. Where does that come from in a person, in you, to do the thing you're afraid of, to fight for the thing that you want that's better? Because other people fought for me when I was a kid. And it made a difference in my life. Who? Sister Margaret Francis. She left the order. How scandalous is that? She left the order. She was a nun and she left the Catholic church. She turned in her habit because she didn't agree with certain things and how the children were being treated. She stuck up for me. She's the woman that told me, put your head down, study. Education is your way out. Do not give up. She's the person that fought for me to just be seen in a room. And she didn't have to do that. And she wasn't supposed to do that. And she did anyway. There are people in my life, such as politicians, who fought for a certain type of policies that would protect children that we couldn't get hit anymore. You know, that you had to treat us a certain way in regards to food and shelter and kindness. They literally passed policy for that to happen. People don't understand, like, I know I look cute, but I'm old. I'm next to clearing my senior citizen check, okay? That's how old I am. And back then, people had the right to beat me. They had the right to do certain things to me. And there was no law to say no. And people fought for that to happen. And could have jeopardized their livelihood as well. And they didn't. There were teachers that stood up for me because I was treated poorly in schools, because I came from the child welfare system and the foster care system. There's so many people that stood up for me and fought for me. And that's what gives me the courage. But also, I have to tell you, it's because I am who I am. I was born this way and I knew it from day one. We have a suffragette in our lineage, which I never knew. And I went, oh, well, that makes sense. Yeah. You know what I mean? I just think that's who I am. But I think most importantly, the reason why I push through my fears is because I've been stomped on. I have been stomped on. I've been forgotten about and everything like that. And I don't want anybody else to feel that ever. It's a shitty place to live. And there's a lot of people living in that place right now. And when the AIDS movement came about and one of my good friends, my ex-boyfriend, passed away from AIDS. And before he passed, he told me, Rose, show up for the cause, not the cameras. Fuck your hair. And it changed me because it immediately made me remember of all those people that stood up for me and took a chance. And at the time I had representatives telling me during the AIDS movement, could you stop? Could you be quiet? And I go, no, I can't. Well, you're not going to get this job. And I would cry. Really? Is that real? Yeah, you're not going to get this job. You're too controversial. And I'm not going to say I was so brave and like, yeah, well, I don't care. I did care. It did hurt. I remember those days. Today, I remember those days. But if I didn't stand up, then what? You know, look at how far the AIDS movement has come now. You know what I mean? And my latest thing is to stand up for Gilag has this new drug, but it costs so much money. How can we figure out to make that more affordable, you know? Or how can we put the message back out there that people are still suffering from AIDS, regardless of all the latest, you know, medications and advancements in the field? How can we put out the message that STDs are like running rampant people, young people? And old people. And old people. Oh my gosh, you know? And so all those things, that's why. That's why I do it. And I can't stop, even though I cry. I cry every day, Nicole, I do. But I got to pick myself back up and say, okay, let's go. Let's go. Somebody out there needs someone to stand up for them, you know? And I am inspired by Minneapolis. I am inspired by those people because it is terrifying. It's terrifying what's going on. And I'm also inspired by the American people. People are saying the American people have lost hope. No, we have not. No, we have not. Look at what is changing. We're starting to come together whether we want to admit it or not. We are. If we could do that, like even in the Democratic Party, it pisses me off what's going on. You know? What are they doing? Oh, if you're not a Democrat socialist, you're... Oh, in New York? Yeah, in New York, you're like, what? And if you say something, you're against the mayor because you're against the DSA. say, no, I'm for the people and so is everyone else. You know what I'm saying? Like, there are other Democrats that are calling me and say, can you say something? Why don't you say something, bitch? You know what I'm saying? About Mom Donnie or just about anybody? I don't have nothing against the man. I don't. Trump loves him. He loves him so much. Someone says, do you still believe he's a fascist? And Trump's like, just say yes. Oh my God, what did he do? Yeah, that was funny. That was funny. It's incredible. Yeah. But my point is, is that I've criticized Eric Adams and Eric Adams was my friend. I've criticized the Blasio. I've criticized Bloomberg and Giuliani. I even criticized David Dinkins, who I adored. You know what I mean? And that's what we should be as Americans who care about what's going on in the world. We cannot be so absolute on either side. Stop it. It's It's imitating already. It is. It's stopping progress. It is. Yeah. I mean, some of that is what you said before. The algorithms, the social media makes everyone so agitated. Yeah. That their nervous system's like over fried. And so they hear any criticism from inside their coalition and they freak out. I have to ask you about Do the Right Thing. When was the last time you watched it? Like if you watched, you were so fucking hot. I mean, you're still hot. Yeah, you're the hot grandma. But Do the Right Thing. Like, can you just take me through like your life before Do the Right Thing, your life after? And are you and Spike Lee friends? We're still friends. Me and Spike are still friends to this day. Actually, he was texting me during the latest fight. Big, big fight. He was saying, where you at? Everybody's asking for you. And that made me feel really nice. But my life prior to do the right thing, I was a college nerd. I was a college nerd. I was a biochem major who used to sneak out of lab class at 9 p.m. so I could go to the club. And I would change out of my nerdy khaki pants. I used to wear khaki pants. You know, and to dress like a Republican. Stop it. Don't say that. You'll see how she is. You see, you see, folks. Oh, my gosh. OK, well, maybe so. But anyway, I would go in there and then during our lunch break, I'll break. I would change into my hoochie mama dress, you know, and hit the clubs. So I was just this confused person that was very happy. I was very content prior to meeting Spike Lee. I meet him in a nightclub and my whole life changes, literally. And people think, oh, he gave you that role. No, he made me audition to make sure, because he's smart like that. He literally has changed my life. And I am so grateful for it. And that movie, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I really didn't. If it wasn't for, God rest his soul, Danny Aiello, I don't think I could have pushed through. I really couldn't. And Ernest Dickinson as well. They taught me so much. So, so much. Any actor out there listening, it's like Danny said, come here, come here, come here. tomorrow's your day off. I go, yeah. He goes, don't sit at home. Come to sit, sit next to me and watch. That's how you're going to learn. You watch. You sit there, just be quiet. Don't say nothing because Spike will get annoyed. Just watch. And I did. And my life changed and it wasn't easy. People think like, bang, everything happened. No, I was still living in Bed-Stuy in my sister Carmen's house with the bar downstairs where, you know, the pimps would come with their ladies. I was still living that life for at least two, three years after the do-do, I think. People did not know that. Yeah, so it was hard, but it was so worth it. And I'm so grateful for it. I love you so much. I love you too. Thank you for this. Did we say everything we were supposed to say? Well, I don't know. Is there anything else? I mean, I guess the only thing that we didn't get to talk about were, you know, all of your amazing roles and all your amazing projects and what you're working on now. Oh, there's several things I'm working on. You know what I want to say? Tell me. I'm working on a podcast. Oh, you are? They hired me to narrate this podcast about the Fania All-Stars. That's the Willie Calon, Jeta Laval, Johnny Pacheco, Celia Cruz, La Lupe. It's about the record label. I couldn't believe that they asked me to be the narrator. Why? So I thought they were going to ask someone like Bad Bunny. You know what I mean? And probably they were like, yeah, but you old. Maybe that would make it more legit. Not old. Because they're from the 70s. It changed everything. Open Blades. He's in it. It's just, that's what I'm working on. And I'm really, really proud of it. But lastly, and most importantly, I want to say thank you for you being my friend. There was a lot of things that happened when we first met. And some of those people I'm in touch with, some of them are not. But me and you have stayed constant. And I love you. I love you. And I adore you. And my husband says hello. I love you. My husband gets to say hello to you all the time because he gets to have you as a friend too, which I think is one of his favorite things about being married to me. He gets to be friends with Rosie Perez. I love you. I love you too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to The Best People. Remember to subscribe to MS Now Premium on Apple Podcasts to get this show and other MS Now Originals ad-free. You also get subscriber-only bonus content. All episodes of this podcast are also available on YouTube. You visit msnow slash thebestpeople to watch. The Best People is produced by Vicky Vergolina. Our associate producer is Rana Shabazi with additional production support from Quarry Robinson. Our audio engineers are Greg Debbins and Hazik Bin Ahmad Farad. Katie Lau is our senior manager of audio production. Pat Berkey is the senior executive producer of Deadline White House. Brad Gold is the executive producer of Content Strategy. Aisha Turner is the executive producer of Audio. And Madeline Herringer is senior vice president in charge of Audio, Digital, and Longform. Search for the best people wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to follow the series.