Greatest Hits Vol. 5: Your Favorite Calls of 2025

These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that. People had some thoughts about these calls. So listeners, these are your fault. We have been in an affair now for the last probably eight months or so. It is New Year's Eve. And if you're with us, I'm super glad you are here. Or if it's gone into the new year and you're just getting a download of this show, you're driving home from something, you're waking up wondering what couch you're sleeping, wherever you happen to find yourself, I'm glad that you're here. Happy New Year. Like all of us, 2025 was a bit on the... Woo, chaotic side. And I'm, I don't know, I get accused of being pessimistically optimistic about everything. Like it's all coming down, but it's going to be fine. And so I'm pessimistically optimistic that 2026 is going to be the year we transform and that we make things right on a grand scale. But I know this, we probably can't all affect much of that stuff, but we can affect the things in our own hearts and our own heads and our own families and our own homes and our own marriages and our own kids and with our own friends. So we're going to start there. I'm glad that you're with us. So this show is a special Kelly 2.0. I mean, divided by two, Kelly 1.0. You're the square root of Kelly 2.0. You're like the horse covered buggy and she's a Tesla. It's okay. Wow. What's like New Year, New John? Come on. No, it's not New Year's yet. It's New Year's Eve. Tomorrow, man, New Year, New Me totally. Kindness. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I'm sure you are. All right. So this is the best of, these are three shows, three calls. We call them the greatest hits here. Greatest hits. Oh yeah, I got greatest hits. That's awesome. It's the greatest hits of 2025. These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that. Well, normally our calls get, I don't know, a couple hundred, maybe five or 600 comments. These calls got thousands and thousands. So like 1, 3,500, 5,500 and one of them got 8,500 comments. So these people had some thoughts about these calls. So listeners, these are your fault or you did this or how do you want to put it? But for whatever reason, these caused. Drama. Or strong feelings, which in return caused more strong feelings. And so we're going to run them back. We put them all in one episode. This is 2025's greatest hits. Three calls guaranteed to get you and those in the car with you right now talking. Buckle up. Thanks for joining us on the best of 2025 episode and make good choices tomorrow. Let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Will. What's up, Will? How we doing, man? Hey, John, how's it going? I'm doing all right, brother. What's up? Hey, so I got a quick question for you here. I kind of got myself in a little bit of predicament and so I'll just get right into it. My wife and I, we've been married for about five years. And in that timeframe, I was able to reconnect with a friend of mine that I had made a male friend of mine that I had made after high school and whatnot. Started to kind of hang out with him and found out kind of through hanging out with him that his wife kind of made a pass at me. And we have been in an affair now for the last probably eight months or so. We've obviously talked about just about everything under the sun. And I guess I'm trying to figure out, you know, am I interested in this person or is it just the thrill of having an affair and doing something obviously that, you know, you're not supposed to do. And so I'm trying to figure out how to figure that out because, you know, I just want to a little bit of advice on trying to how to progress forward with that. Oh man. So let me just walk it back and you can just tell me up or down. So you are sleeping with a great friend's wife. Correct. Does your friend know? He does not. Does your wife know? She does not. And so you're not calling me to ask like, oh God, I've blown up my life and my wife's life and I've blown up one of my close buddy's lives. It's not why you're calling. You're calling to ask, is this true love or not? I'm calling to ask because, you know, in the time that I've chatted with this person, you know, we've obviously, we've talked a lot more about the just the physical nature of things. And, you know, there's been times where we've both had the idea that, you know, our lives potentially could be better with that other person. And obviously that's not something that I, you know, want to, I don't want to jump into something or I don't want it to technically pursue something. And then turns out it was just because of the thrill of an affair. I mean, my life and I, we've had our struggles and our issues free the involvement of the affair or my friend almost called it off a few different times without that being a factor. So I think it was just kind of came across at the timing that I was the most vulnerable to accept it. But yeah. So I guess the best thing I could tell you or the right thing I could tell you is you are so, it's like you're watching the Lion King. You're watching like a, you're watching like a Disney movie in the theater and you're watching these animals all talking to each other. And you're wondering what it would be like to talk to one of those animals too. Like, okay. Your, your questions are so divorced from the reality with which you actually find yourself that it tells me that you've had to construct a world where this is okay and there's a world that everything's going to be okay on the other end of this. Because if you didn't have that kind of psychological moat around what you're actually doing, you would implode because you become somebody that you could never have imagined you would be. You're sleeping with it. That makes sense. You're sleeping with one of your closest friends' wives, period. Right. You're actively for over a year having sex with somebody that's not your wife, putting her at physical danger, putting her at grave emotional danger. I mean, like, and what you're thinking about is, man, isn't this going to be wonderful on their side of this thing? It's kind of like watching, it's like, it's like you're in Los Angeles right now watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild. Right. Like you're not absorbing reality. And so number one, no place in this conversation are we talking about how are these feelings real or not? Not until we've looked your wife in the eye and said, I've blown our marriage up and I don't want to be with you anymore. Not until you've looked your buddy in the eye and said, I've been sleeping with your wife for a year and I'm sorry. And after the ash settles back to earth, after that conversation, those conversations, then you can ask yourself, okay, are we in a relationship? Are we going to try to build this thing and make it go and move forward together? And so percentages on that, just scientifically, the percentages of those relationships being successful are very, very, very low. Right. Because then the old bumper sticker, like it's true somewhere somebody else is tired of her too and you also, right, like you all get, you all just living in a fantasy world where you don't have to deal with reality. You just get to have these romantic, oh my gosh, conversations and you get me in passion and we get to have sex and there's nothing anchored to it in reality, like dishes and bills and hey, we're trying to build a life together and I want to do this, but I want to do this. You all have to, you all are skipping all of that. So until you anchor back into earth, any conversations you all have are just fantasy. They're just Disney movies. They're not real. Why haven't you sat down and had that conversation with your wife yet? So we've been obviously dealing, like I had previously stated, we had been dealing with our own obviously struggles. Yeah, but you took struggle every marriage test. I've had nightmarish struggles. You went the next step. Right. So I haven't sat down and talked with her about it because I guess I'm kind of put it in my mind that if this marriage that I have with my wife were to potentially fail, that I didn't want this reasoning of what's going on. Bro, you have failed it. Like you're the failure. You get what I'm saying? Right. And I'm sure she's got her own challenges. I'm not saying she's perfect, but right. Like you're actively sleeping with your buddy's wife. You're like, well, if this thing doesn't work, right? It's like, you're the one that's not working right in it. You get what I'm saying? Right. No, I'm aware of that part. What I'm saying is that like, obviously our marriage previous had obviously its problems. We were trying to work on those things and I obviously made the mistake initially and you know, her and I, we haven't engaged in anything in a while because obviously I'm taking a step back, but it's also one of those that it's at the point where I feel like in order to build with my wife, if that's what her and I choose to do, then I need to obviously be upfront and honest with her about everything that has happened. And if I do that, then... Bro, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. You are... And I like, I'm really close to compassionate for you right now. I'm frustrated with you. I'm angry with you, but I'm also compassionate because I think you have created a delusion that you live in. And you use these huge circular, well, you know, and then we might listen to me so carefully. You're having sex with another man's wife and you're getting going home and you're laying in your bed next to yours. You're having sex with your buddy's wife and then you'll go have dinner together as a foursome. That is where everything has to start. You can't be sleeping with somebody else's wife and trying to see if your marriage is going to make it. It's madness, Will. Madness. And you can't be hanging out with your buddy while you're banging his wife and be like, well, I'm trying to figure out if our feelings are right or wrong. What are you doing, man? You know what I'm saying? No, I get what you're saying. I think... So like today, today needs to be the day. Today needs to be the day that you tell your wife, we got to talk. I've been having an eight month affair with our mutual friends and I've blown our marriage to Smithereens. Yes, we had problems. Yes, there were holes in the boat and I detonated it. And you being a grown man need to say, I've already got me an apartment. I've already got me a friend's couch to crash on because I know I've blown your world up and I don't want you to have to move too. And maybe she comes back and says, well, I should probably tell you I've been sleeping with somebody else too. Maybe. Right. Maybe. Who knows? I would doubt it. Okay. Obviously, I don't know, but... And then you ask your friend, I'm going to meet you in a diner here in Nashville. We got to talk. Or you tell the woman you're having an affair with, hey, you got 24 hours because I got to come clean with my buddy. I've become somebody that I never dreamed I would be and I have to stop. I think that's where I've been struggling because it's like I have gotten far down the road, obviously. And I think in my mind, I have this delusion that there is a different path out besides going back. There's not a way to land the plane. There is no going back, but your fantasy about how this plane lands is false too. Both are true. So there's no going back. You blew it up. The boat's gone. You and your wife might choose to swim to shore amid all the rubble and rebuild a new boat. That happens all the time. And I'll walk with you if that's what you all want to do. You and this other person have a sliver, teeny, tiny sliver of statistical probability that you've blown up your life. She's blown up hers and you all choose to build a boat together on whatever shore you all swim to, maybe. But you'll always wonder if she's sleeping with somebody else like she did with you and vice versa. It's just a very shaky ground to build a new thing. But it happens. But there is no like, then you have a hard conversation with your wife and she's like, well, I don't really want to work on this. And you're like, that's cool. I already have a four bedroom, three bath house with somebody else and her, your buddy, her husband is like, ah, well, it didn't work out this time. That's just not how this ends, man. Right. And so the quicker you can re anchor to reality and from a place from the inside out, because dude, you have, you have created a verbal gymnastics studio that you just swirl around and ride the monkey bars and but your feet never touch the ground. You've got to be a look yourself in the mirror and say, dude, I blew my life up. Do you feel that? I think I hear no room. I hear no remorse. No, like, yeah, yeah, well, no, I think it's, it's one of those that I'm trying to, you know, obviously I haven't let many people, it's anybody know about this situation, you know, so obviously I've only ever had my opinions way on it. So having, you know, an outside source way in on it is obviously beneficial, but it's also making me hear things that I haven't heard, obviously things that were are accurate, but I haven't heard because I'm not telling myself those. Okay, you need to after this call. Everyone likes to think that obviously there's a good way to land every plane in life, obviously. So, you know, I think I have been caught up trying to figure out if it's or if it's possible to land it versus actually realizing that it's not. What you're trying to do is to convince yourself that if this is actually love or this is actually viable, these feelings and the excitement of sleeping with somebody that's not your wife, which dude, I don't begrudge you that one bit. You probably feel alive every time you sneak away, every time you almost get caught and you don't. It won't surprise me at all if you felt dead in your own skin for the last five, six, seven years, however long you've been with her. I get that. But you're trying to convince yourself that these feelings are somehow valid in the grand scheme of the cosmos and that it will justify destroying your wife's life and destroying the life of your buddy. And so two things, love is not a feeling. It's a choice you make every single day. It's a decision. And a marriage is a choice that two people make every single day of their life, man. And so whatever happens with this other person, you all have to choose that every single day. Except that choice is going to be anchored into styrofoam because you know, oh, she's capable of blowing this whole thing up at any time. And I am too. And she'll know that about you. That's why statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that it continues. But again, it's part of this psychological construct you're trying to build. Your plane is going down and you're trying to like figure out the right way to pull the cushions off of the airplane seats so you land comfortably. It's not going to happen. So what I'll tell you is at the end of this thing, there's a fire. You can do a control burn right now and try. Or you can just wait till the whole thing goes up and smoke, but it's going to catch fire. I think I've just spent too much time dancing around and trying to figure out how to make the fire as small as possible when in reality, the focus should be on that the fire is happening regardless. And I need you to internalize in your guts. Your house has already burned to the ground. Hers too. They're gone. They're over. The marriage you had is over. The marriage she had is over. The little plate time you'll have together is over. You all have to decide what we're going to build next. But bro, you've got to come back and anchor the ground, man. You've blown your life up and you've blown her life up. And she's blown her life up. I mean, I don't know a way that you're going to sleep all night. I don't know a way that you're going to have peace at all. Do you sit down at a conversation with your wife till you let her know you got 24 hours and I got to come clean with my buddy? Because I'm not going to be this guy anymore. And there's a high statistical probability that when the smoke clears, you've got nobody. You've got no friend. You've got no girlfriend. You've got no wife. That's a high high probability. And then you'll have to choose to do the next right thing in mid that ash. But man, stop with the verbal gymnastics. Stop with the are these feelings real? But start with. I've cheated on you. And I blew her life up and doing it for almost a year now. Through the holidays, through your birthdays, I was seeing somebody else. I was sleeping with our friend. Let's start there. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by better help. I want to talk about traditions. Traditions are things you do every week or every year and they can be great or they can be a heavy obligation. 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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash D'Loni. Alright, most of the stuff on supplement shelves is just garbage. If I'm going to take a supplement, it's got to be amazing. And that's why I've been taking thorn supplements for years. When it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I use thorn supplements for sleep, for performance, and for keeping my brain on track. So whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, a dad trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, you deserve only the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing, not thorn. They make every product with science not spin in their world-class facility in South Carolina. 35% of thorn's employees work in one place, quality control. And they reject 15% of the raw materials because good enough is not good enough when it comes to thorn supplements. 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So yeah, so how do we jump into this? Cannonball is the best way. Cannonball, yeah. So a whole whopping seven months ago, married this amazing, beautiful woman. We started dating approximately three years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the unicorn that every guy dreams of running into. She started off as a client of mine through a hobby job that I was doing. And then we had both recently ended previous relationships and found confidance in each other and quickly snowballed into the relationship and same hobbies, same interests, same everything. And we got married in May. I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship financially and entered this marriage, not really standing on my two feet, just trying to play catch up with life and bad decisions in the past. And everything was great up until planning the marriage. Our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit and I kind of alluded it to just the stress of planning a wedding and planning a marriage. And post-wedding, we had that little honeymoon phase and things just never really ironed themselves out. So we started going to couples counseling at the beginning of June. First session was great. I made an advent. I'm all in, just personal values, upbringing, all into work on your marriage and lean into it. And so I was all in. Our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week and she dropped a bombshell that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out. And she had found where I had basically paid for porn. It was something that I didn't deny it when she bought it up. I made it to it. It was something that I had struggled previously with years and years and years ago. It wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but struggled with it. I'd stopped and then kind of relapsed back into it in the last year, year and a half. And about August, I kind of had that realization of, I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I doing? And stopped cold turkey. But she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating on her own and found it. I tried to cover it up. It was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. I'd seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt. I had told her that I had previously had a problem with porn and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. And I guess when she did her whole investigating and found it, it blew up to, I can't be trusted. She called me a cheater a couple of times, which hurt the most because I would never, while I understand that porn, some people can look at it as cheating, I would never act on that. I would never physically step out of my marriage. Yeah, but she doesn't know that. Yeah, she doesn't know that. But the trust thing is the hardest part. That she feels like she can't trust me. And she basically said that she needed some time to think and our therapist suggested that one week no contact. That was the hardest, longest week of my life. I thought at the time and we reconvened and she walked into the therapy session late. I noticed she didn't have her wedding band on. When I saw her walking the door, my heart immediately sank because that was the first thing that I noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band. And she said that she wanted a divorce and my life has been basically crumbled since then. So we're a month post that last therapy session. Our therapist suggested we each individually see therapist again. I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly here more recently bi-weekly. And I'm all I'm all in, you know, trying to do better for myself. Fix my problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, vagueness problems. And trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still refer to my wife, although she's filed for a divorce. So she has filed paperwork? Yeah, she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. I got my lawyer just to protect myself. And we're kind of letting the lawyers, you know, do their thing. But I'm still okay. But so you got, you have to exhale that this is over. Yeah. And you haven't yet, have you? No, I'm still trying to, I'm still trying to hold on and still trying to fight because I do. I do love her with everything that I've got and I'm willing to do anything to show her that I'm all in. I know, but you got to hear her say she doesn't care. Yeah. I know it's hard to hear. Yeah, it is. So how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this. I don't know. I understand. I've got to go through the self healing process first. I'm still going. Well, you do, but... Really just move. I'm in a hole and I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how that light at the end of this, at the end of the hole. Yeah, stop digging. Yeah, stop digging. Okay. Here's why. I wrote this down when you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her. Sexually, financially. Probably attractive. Like you came in thinking, oh my gosh, look at the fish I got on this line. Yeah. And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of I love how you just ended it. I'm in a hole. Yeah. And until you stop working, walking around, giving your credit card to a, to a porn company is in the whole behavior. Yeah. That is less than that is I am desperately trying to feel alive in my own skin. So much so that I'll take one of the most untrustworthy groups of people on the planet and give them my account number. Yeah. You said something that I want to make sure I double click on. That you kind of held some stuff back from her because you were worried about her judging you. But I got a sense that you kind of feel right righteous about that. Like, yeah, see when you found out, you're judging me. Not really. And I dove into that as I've always had issues with being vulnerable. To this previous, previous life. I lost my dad when I was in fifth grade and, you know, I kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this persona of being 10 foot tall, bulletproof for a family and stuff like that. And I've always had a problem of letting myself be vulnerable to other people. And I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my personal therapist. So, so what? So it was a scared, I was scared of being, and I don't blame her for the way that she acted. Well, but hold on, hold on. It's very, very rare. I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices. Okay. So in law offices. But in my world, it is very, very rare. For somebody to find an old incidence of paying for or pornography, search history, found an old expense. What was this? Because that story is not super ring and true with me. Either that or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path. Yeah. And that's what I'm thinking. This was kind of a debt of a thousand cuts. And that was the... Yeah, but you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being an all-round scumbag, right? Yeah, no. And it was actually kind of the opposite direction. So what did she find? That's what she told me. You know, and there was really nothing else. I mean, I had, I had tried to start, I tried to start a business right there when we got married, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest move on my part. That's all fine and good. There's something else here, brother. And I don't know. Was it pornography or was it webcam girl? Like what, was it interactive? No, it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but I was strictly paying for videos. So there was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying for videos and subscriptions. And she, you know, she, she, she basically said that, you know, a lot of, a lot about it. I relapsed. I'm, I'm cheating on her. Well, and you say you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language. Yeah. And I was over clinically. Dinos is addicted. Sure. I guess I, yes, I am. I mean, I don't think you are of just from what you're talking about, but I don't work with you day in and day out. So I don't know, but I, I, I really don't know how I can help other than the faster you exhale into, I mean, she's, it's one thing if she says I want to divorce, takes her ring off and then doesn't do anything for a month or two. Yeah. Then you, in my world, that's the, so you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah. This is, this is filing. Here's the paperwork. The lawyers have a date and we're moving down the road. That's when, like, here's the deal, man. You can't go to all this therapy and do all the stuff to try to win her back. You got to go to the therapy and stuff because there's something not right. And it might be that she's not right. And I might say she can do whatever she wants. She can divorce you for whatever reason and she feels this is infidelity. It's infidelity. I'm out. Okay. But either this is just, I don't know. I'd have to, I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to get a better beat on this thing. But what I can tell you is the faster you exhale and grieve this thing. It's heartbreaking. You did some stuff. You weren't honest about it. It doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is. She says that's a violation. That's infidelity. I'm out. I can't trust you sexually. I can't trust you financially. You hide things. You go change labels. We went to marriage counseling in June and it's August when I found this out. And so we've been through two or three months of counseling and you didn't tell me that I'm out. I'm out. People can judge her all day long, but she's got every right to walk. She's got every right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and go, okay, this is happening. What's going to be different next time? And by the way, she's not a unicorn dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody that somehow you have found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them. And you keep showing up and you keep showing up and you keep showing up. See, the best thing I can tell you man is keep seeing a counselor, but also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you. Because right now you're entering into all these relationships, the counselor, the marriage, the everything from in a hole. Stop digging and just stand up. The hole is not as deep as you think it is. Stand up and this one may have cost you everything and take that on the chin. That's another big loss for you. Pressure down and your marriage is tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough. There is healing on the other side man, but you got to own the reality of where you find yourself. Ain't you a call man? Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'll be happy to walk with you. We'll be right back. Hey, I want to talk about my friends at Cove. 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You customize your system with a quick online quiz so you get exactly what your home needs and nothing you don't. And with the Cove app, you can check in anytime, anywhere and look at what's going on in your home. Listen, you can't control everything, but you can create a home that feels safe, calm and protected. Go to CoveSmart.com and use my code DELONI and save up to 80% off your first purchase. That's Cove C-O-V-E CoveSmart.com Code DELONI. All right, we are back. Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Devin. Hey, Devin, what's up, man? Hey, John, thanks for taking my call. You got it. So we talked back in September. Refresh us. What's going on in your life back in September? All right. So back then my question was, hey, my wife gave me an ultimatum, I have a third baby or possibly she was walking. I called them to get a couple of tools from you. I used a couple of those, but now I'm coming back to the well to see if they have any more knowledge for me as I continue to navigate through this. So then where my recommendation is not great, it's okay if they weren't. Well, you're fantastic, but I find myself in kind of another odd predicament with her, but I'll unpack however you think would be most useful to be an eye on your time. Tell me about today's call. What's going on? So the main point was we got to a point in that discussion over the third baby, but he's really a proxy battle for me kind of capitulating anything that she wants. Her going nuclear so to speak if she didn't get what she wants. We got to the end of that and it came to that sort of lights up conversation that we had. And I said, listen, however we got here, the important thing is that I think we try to build something new. So I kind of established I wanted to build something new. I wanted to put away all of the insecurities, all the issues we had, kind of put those down and just start something new. And she never really said if she was in or out, she was very upset in that moment, obviously. But then a couple of days went by where she was saddened and since then she's been normal-ish, but not affectionate. So it's almost like she's in, but she doesn't want to say she's in because she's still kind of punishing me because she'll never forgive me. And I don't know how to re-engage it and say, hey, you know, three months ago we had this weird conversation about it, whether you're going to leave or not. Never really shut if you're leaving. So it's kind of walking on this anxious egg shells all the time, like are you just going to leave or what's going on? So what has stopped you from sitting down and having, like, I wouldn't have been able to sleep for three months with the looming potential separation. Like what has kept you from sitting down over dinner and being like, hey, you mentioned you were leaving. Are we all in? Are you in? So honestly, the reason why I haven't brought it up to her again, isn't because I'm afraid she said she's going to leave. I don't actually think she's going to leave and she's not going to say that, but I think the problem is based on how our relationship goes, she's never going to ever say she's all in because she has to have that like over my head because she's been using that for several years. Like I could leave if you don't do XYZ. So I feel like if I bring up the conversation like, hey, let's resurrect this terrible conversation from a few months ago, she'll just be like, oh, I mean, obviously I'm in, but like, you know, I don't know, maybe your family unhappy. So like she'll never give me any resolution to it. That's why I don't bring it up because it's like, all right. I mean, maybe the other part of that, and just to finish this point is, and I said this to her, if we go forward and we're not having another baby, I understand it's going to change the family picture that you had in your mind. So there'll be a season of grieving in your life, which I'll be, I'm all in to help you with and walk with you through that. So I don't know if this is like, okay, she's kind of getting to acceptance her own way and she's in her grieving process, but how long do I let that go before I go, hey, you know, you can't, we can't live in an affectionate, less relationship forever because we're normal day to day, but there's just no effect on her part. It's just like, no, done. This, this, she's kind of checked out that way. So it's odd. I, man, it pains me to say what I'm about to say because it kind of violates one of my core tenants. Is that okay? Get after it. Your wife is incredibly immature. Oh yeah. Okay. And I, I've got a close, close buddy that was telling me about this amazing therapist he has and he said, what's so great is my therapist kind of his, his wife interpreter. And I was like, what does that mean? It's like, well, my wife will say things and the therapist will be like, well, here's what she actually means and it's so great. And I said, no, your therapist sucks because, because you don't, you're not supposed to have an interpreter. You're supposed to learn to be mature and just say the thing. Yeah. Right. And like being adult and if somebody is always threatening to leave you, they have a left. Yeah. They're out and they aren't in. And so you can't build anything. All you can do is be drugged behind whatever truck she's driving down the road. Yeah. And so I guess what I would tell you is this isn't, she's not being a person of fidelity in your marriage. Yeah. Right. In this way, correct. Yes. She's not, maybe she's not sleeping with somebody. But this is, this is the same thing you're like, yeah, she's not sleeping with anybody. Like, like, here's the thing. It's similar to guys who spend every waking moment that they're not at work on the golf course. Yeah. And their wife is getting just, just scraps. Yeah. And then when you call them on and they're like, what, what, are you kidding me? For real? I do all this and it's that. That's not being a person, that's cheating. You're just cheating with the golf course. Right. Yeah. What's happening to you is the same thing. It's just, hey, are you said you're going to leave me and these two kids? Are you going to leave? Oh no. I don't know, man. Maybe like, that's, that's infidelity. That's cheating. That is not giving you her full self. And so you're eating, like you're just feeding on scraps and you're starving to death. Yeah. I think that's completely true. And to kind of give you a little more depth on that, she's created this devious way in which she doesn't say like, I don't know if she actually said directly, I believe, but she, she very strongly like intimates that and she knows that that's my greatest fear. But then like, when I've brought this up to her throughout the process, the other kind of smaller fights for this nuclear one, I directly articulate like, I'm afraid that you will leave if I don't give you what you want. And she would kind of almost do this, not to overuse the word, but gaslight like, why would I leave? I'm not going to leave. And then we get to the next fight and she's like, you know, I really can't do this anymore. And so it's like, she never says like, I will leave, but she, she, she lays that thought in my head. And the reason why she'll never say, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm all in is because if she does that, she's putting down that, that weapon she's always had, which she knows is my greatest insecurity. Like I'm afraid you're going to leave. So what if you do, what if you take all the bullets out of that weapon? Also, um, like we're recording this, we're coming up on the new year. Yes. What if you let her know today, I've got childcare and we're going to take a Saturday and part of a Sunday and you and I are going to map out 2025 together. And here's how we're going to map it out. We're going to map it out in four ways. We're going to spend the morning talking about how we see each other. We're going to talk about things that we see the other person doing that are great. Then we're going to go to another restaurant. We're going to go get coffee. We're going to get morning brunch or whatever. And we're going to talk about known. What are the things going on in your guts? Are you happy in this home that we're creating together? How can we love each other better? And both people get to speak. Then we're going to go to lunch. And then either during lunch or after lunch, we're going to talk about celebration. Who do we want to be this year? What's that going to look like identity? How are we going to celebrate each other? How are we going to cheer each other on and become each other's biggest cheerleaders? And then the fourth one is nuts and bolts. How are we going to make this thing happen? What must, what must go away so that this new year is becomes true? Seeing known celebrate and challenge. Okay. And let's say you put that on paper. Forget her little threats. If you think those threats are, they're just, they're toothless tigers. Then at some point you have to be the adult and say, whatever, I'm going to keep going. Because y'all are in this weird dance. Where she loses power and so she pokes and you over like, well, over correct. She's going to leave and you shut down for a month and she gets back on top. And then, then you slowly start becoming a great husband again and you're back engaged with the kids and then she feels like she's losing it. So she's like, well, I don't know. It's, I feel like she's, I think she looked into like, I don't know, I don't think that she necessarily looked into like divorce or anything, but I think she's like envisioned that and she realized how hard it is. So now she's, she's not planning actively leaving, but my concerns are the next time, you know, three months from now and she's like, Hey, let's do whatever and I can't do that. Then she's not getting what you want. She's not getting fed that, then it's going to be another fight and then this will come up at some point. But to your point of bound, if I may, the kind of like the retreat you laid out, I kind of did that in a sense, not as well as you did obviously because you do this for a living, but like during the peer, the past month of us being in this weird dance was our wedding anniversary. So I kind of, I got up like a room at a hotel with a restaurant just kind of like have almost like a, a start over type retreat thing. Kind of with this, with what you just kind of laid out in a framework in mind, but not as well. And she first she declined and she said, well, we shouldn't go. We had a good idea. And I said, why? And she's like, well, because we have all these problems. And I was like, I just kind of walked away. I was like, okay, whatever you want to do, but I don't have to cancel the reservation until you know, next day. So then she waits until that day and she goes, all right, we can do it. We can go, we have to talk about things. And I said, okay. And then we went and we did it. We didn't talk about things. I didn't bring it up to be fair, but I was kind of waiting like, where are you going with this? So we just had like a decent evening. But I was like, well, why didn't we do this? What's, what's going on? Like, are you not want to talk about it? Are you over? I keep trying to read tea leaves, which is stupid. Go right, right. Because here's the thing. If she's going to leave you, she's going to leave you. I totally agree. I think she's already left you. She's just left you in your own house. She's left you physically. She's left you emotionally. She's left you spiritually. She's left you. She's moved out. She just did the math. She probably sat with somebody and they did math and she's like, oh, I'd have to go to work. Well, and so if I could just expand on that for a second, not to, not that I'm great about anything, but like I do roughly nine out of 10 things in the house. So like meals, cleaning, cooking, I do so much. So I feel like she probably thought, oh, my life would be much more difficult. I might as well just live here and have them do everything. But I feel like if I stand up and like pull back a little bit in what I'm doing, because I'm also overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I'm doing, because it's completely unbalanced, then she, I always feel like she's going to leave. So I just, everything is kind of through the lens of like, if I stopped doing this one nice thing I do, she's going to leave. And I have to get like, regain my personal agency and take power back in my life. But I'm just, I don't know. I'm so like terrified now after years of dealing with this and this very acute, like recent situation. I just don't even know how to start except saying like, hey, when this was that conversation from a few months ago, what do you do when you're leaving? And then I feel like it won't be resolved because she'll just kind of be like, oh, well, you know, maybe I will, I don't know. So let's flip the whole thing around then. Okay. We're going to go on a retreat and we're going to talk about 2025. And that's a new layout in 2025. I am you, Devin. I'm committed to being well. To being the best father and the best husband I can be. And that means I have to be honest about my time. I have to be honest about my work. I have to be honest about my commitment here at home, domestically, like with chores and stuff like that. And how I am seeking to be the best person I can be. Exercise, sleep and all that. So beginning January 3rd or January 1st or whenever, I'm no longer doing X, Y and Z. I'm going to do dinner. I'm going to do my laundry. I'll do the kids laundry. I will make the bed in the morning. I'll mow the lawn. I'm going to ask you to be responsible for after dinner cleanup. We can figure out who's going to go to the grocery store. We can figure that out. Or you're certainly nailing these things down. But if you do it as punishment, then you become her. Correct. That's my problem. We're not doing it for punishment. We're doing it so that you can be whole finally. You've never been whole in this relationship. And so you have to hear me say you're worth being whole. And here's the thing. My buddy Henry Cloud, like the goat psychologist, who wrote the book Boundaries. He has a great story about how he was a man. He has a great story about talking with a father about his son. He was just living this crazy life. And he says, I don't know what to do. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. And Dr. Cloud has this great response. He said, it sounds like your son needs to get some problems. Yeah. And so your wife doesn't have to do anything. And you continue to cash out every bit of agency you have. Because this isn't a whole relationship. She's not a person of fidelity. And so what you have to say is, okay, this year, I'm not going to punish you. I'm not going to make a dinner anymore. No more laundry. No. When I look at my calendar, I will exercise for an hour a day. I will take my kids to breakfast and then get them to school twice a week. I will work and I'm also going to get that graduate degree I've been thinking about. And so here's what that's going to cost and here's what time that's going to take. So here's going to be the jobs left undone that as the co-creator of this household, this is going to be your responsibility. Are you in? And by the way, now that we're here, what are the things you need to be whole this year? And how can I help fill, like scaffold those things? How can I walk alongside you? How can I love you better? And what you're going to get is somebody feeling in real time, this isn't just a power play anymore. This isn't just sitting on the couch lobbing grenades. I may not be here tomorrow. It's not that. This is like, oh, hours, time, commitment, participation, accountability, the stuff marriage is made of. And here's the thing. You got to hear me say this. She's already left you. And so your plans aren't working. Your attempts to take hold and to get her to not leave, they're not working. She's already left. She just still lives at the house and you pay for everything. The goal here is to say, you deserve to be married to a man that is whole, who can show up and protect and provide and do all these things and be totally connected to you. Here's what I'm going to need to do that. And I deserve to be married to somebody who's whole, who wants all that on this thing. What do you need? I'll do everything I can to my power to make that true. My guess is that it's just going to, like, it's kind of like you have a really dirty windshield and you're flying down the highway at 95 miles an hour and you're afraid you're about to go off a cliff. And you're scared if you clean off this windshield, it's going to show you that you're going off a cliff. It might, but the reality is you don't know where you're going because the windshield's so dirty. So we're going to get in a room and we're going to clear off the windshield. And maybe you're finding that you've already driven off the cliff and your car is just spinning its wheels as it's careening towards the ground. Or you might find out that there's hundreds of miles of empty road ahead of you that you can keep driving together. But she has no incentive to change her life because she likes her life as it is because she does nothing. She just pulls you around on a leash. And she's always got this atom bomb in her pocket, which is, well, maybe it's one beer tomorrow. And for you, it's all right. That's not going to hold power over me anymore. I'm going to go do the next right thing so that I can be whole. And that's the only path you'll have towards hope, towards building something new. It's saying, here's the role I'm going to play in building. Here's the role I'm asking you to build, to take on in our building. Are you in? And dude, call me after this meeting. Call me after it because this is going to be a truth telling, a clearing. And maybe there's some ground rules, no leaving, no grenade throwing, no bombs, no what... We're just going to lay this thing out here. And you'd both of us to be adults in this thing. Been a tough, tough year. And I've been chasing you forever. I'm going to stop chasing. We're going to anchor it. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right. This time of year, we are giving away our time, our money, our sleep. And sometimes without meaning to, we're giving away things way more personal, our data. And that's why I recommend Delete Me. Listen, I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but I want you to remember, and I got to remind myself, every email click, every newsletter I sign up for, I'm handing a piece of my personal life. You're handing a piece of your personal life to someone else. And that information doesn't just stay with them. Shady data brokers, grab it, bundle it, and sell it. Your name, your phone number, your address, all of that is floating out there in the digital wilderness, and people are gathering it up and selling it. That's how you end up with all these spam calls and weird texts that make you feel like someone's watching over your shoulder and absorbing your digital life. If you want to take back your privacy and your peace, you need Delete Me. Delete Me is like a digital cleaning crew. They find your information on these data broker sites and they get it removed and they keep it gone. Peace doesn't just come from turning off notifications. It comes from knowing that your data isn't for sale unless you say so. Right now, you can get 20% off your annual plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash D'aloni. Go protect you and your family this year. That's join, J-O-I-N. Joindeleteme.com slash D'aloni. All right. That was the greatest hits of 2025. I'm going to say greatest hits, the episodes that cause the most drama in the comment sections. Tomorrow is New Year, New Me. I hope it's New Year, New You. Make some great goals. Identify who you want to be this year and then backfill that with some easy low-hanging fruit, some action steps you can take to become the person, the husband, the wife, the parent, the friend, the neighbor, the church member, whatever that you want to be this year. I love you guys and I can't wait for 2026 to hit. We'll see you soon.