How Music Brought Us Together: The Healing Journey of The Head and the Heart Band-Music Saved Me- Encore Episode

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? How did this have been made to fit? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. 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Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much, iHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at veeps.com or the veeps app. Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more, about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wodum and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Music saved me. It's a Fleetwood Mackean process. I can steal that. A lot of songs you can kind of, are grappling with inter-band dynamics, to be honest, you know. And you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning, and you're learning from each other. And there's just as much value in that as there is in a personal relationship or some other experience that you went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much time together. that is literally like it does end up becoming a part of like what occupies our minds and what we're processing and going through. I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me podcast, the podcast that explores the deep healing forces of music. Now, if you like this podcast, thank you. And please share with your friends and don't forget to follow so you never miss an episode. I'm so grateful today. I get to speak with Matt Gervais and Charity Rose Thielen from the American indie folk band The Head and the Heart. Maddie and Charity, welcome to Music Save Me. This is a big thrill for us. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you so much. All right, so first I want to ask you, your band formed rather serendipitously at an open mic night at a bar in Seattle. Can you tell us how music brought all of you together initially? Yeah, Yeah, it was kind of a hodgepodge of individuals being attracted to this Irish pub called Connor Byrne in Ballard. And John had moved from, a lot of us were actually coming from different states, and it was in our early 20s. John moved from Virginia. Kenny had come up from L.A. Josiah also came up from kind of the L.A. area to go to school. in Seattle and I had just been studying overseas and coming home. I was born and raised Seattle but had literally met the band two weeks after getting home. Chris was the only one there who later joined and he was the bartender of this open mic. And we all kind of met very serendipitously. Kenny went to not even play music at the open mic but he came to watch a Lakers game and saw a couple of us, you know, performing and, um, you know, said, oh, well, I play piano. Never, never had been in a band, um, didn't read music, but, you know, Kenny has this, has this, you know, musical genius that he possesses. And, and, um, so he joined and, um, I came through a friend and, you know, and, um, so with the exception of Tyler, no one, Tyler later drove out from Richmond, Virginia he knew John but with the exception of them we hadn't known each other and then we later met Matty at the music festival the first music festival that the band played and his band was playing and because of circumstances we lost one of our members and he wanted Matty to take his place and so it's just been this kind of family collective how we've operated as a band with multiple songwriters and multiple personalities and we've gotten to know one another in real time. You know, we really bonded from this kind of, we formed you know, in a very unspoken way, we formed because we connected immediately and had this kind of wild wonder about at that point in life and music and didn't know what we were doing, didn't know who we were, and we just were meant to be together. And we've tried to maintain that kind of uncertain wonder, I think, through the whole thing, the whole time. That's very special. It's a big band. So, I mean, there's a lot of moving parts. It's six of us. Yes. So that's a lot. Your music often explores themes, home, belonging, personal growth. How has your relationship with these concepts sort of evolved through the years that you've been together? Yeah, well, I think the early days, you know, so much, especially the first album was, yeah. leaving home, looking for belonging, kind of questioning what is home, who am I, where do I belong and kind of a lot of the themes that occur in all of us in that time frame of life I would say but then it reoccurs when you get into your 30s have another existential crisis, you know, and you kind of are reminded of the same questions. But I think there's so much comfort in kind of moving through uncertainty in music. You know, there's so much comfort that you find from making it and also engaging with it as a listener and, you know. That's for sure. Now, this, Maddie, did you have anything to add to that? Oh, yeah, I was just going to say, you're kind of processing these things. You're talking about personal growth. When we all started music, we were all in our teens, basically. And it starts off being this almost like one plus one equals two sort of dynamic where you have a feeling and you're translating it through song, and it's very direct. And as you kind of learn that, you work that muscle and you realize the catharsis that comes with that, Slowly but surely, as adults, it becomes more and more of like, oh, I see what I'm doing now. At first, I didn't realize what this was. And now I see what its power is, and I can almost harness it more intentionally, if that makes sense. Yes. And so that's kind of been really an amazing thing. As we've all matured and as songwriters, we've found ways of looking into what that experience is and what that transaction is. that you're having when you're writing and understanding it. And it's been really interesting to go back and listen to records from heroes of ours that are like, we're at the same point in their careers that we are now. Whereas before it used to be like, we're looking up to them and now we're like, okay, this person is the same age when they made this record that I love that I am now. And what does it mean to them at the time? And what does it mean to me to be making music at that same age? and that's just been kind of a really comforting thing almost to have that. Yeah. I mean, certainly when you have a certain amount of time behind you and you can look back and see patterns and things that you've learned and you didn't even realize you were going throughout that time until you get here. Exactly. It's pretty amazing. Speaking of which, and you mentioned you have a large band and a lot of moving parts, You have spoken about seeing a therapist, the band as a whole. And all I can think of in my mind is when you're together, you're probably more together with the band than you are with your own families. I mean, you work really hard, and it's almost like a marriage. And that can't always be easy. And I think prioritizing mental health is pretty incredible. I've only heard of one other band that did this, and it was Metallica. No, but I mean, it was brutal, but it was amazing that they did that. And that was a group of guys, which is hard enough to get people to seek some counseling. How has prioritizing that mental health affected the creative process now, now that you've sort of gone through that? Well, it's interesting. like, you know, every time that we've mentioned that or brought it up with other bands that are peers of ours, when we encounter them on tour, they're always like, wow, that's cool you guys do that. And you can see their gears spinning, like, why haven't we done this? Like, we should be doing this too, because there's so much that can be gleaned from it. And you realize that your fortunes are tied together, whether you like it or not. You know, it's like you're greater than the sum of your parts. and no one member necessarily has the ability to go off and strike it on their own. Metallica actually is ironically one of the few where that actually did happen with Dave Mustaine going off and creating Megadeth, but it's very rare for that to happen. Realizing that our fortunes are tied together and it's important that we stay together has been something that's definitely informed where we're going. To answer your question though So you're talking about how does it Like Impact our song Creative process Yeah I mean It's kind of very Fleetwood Mackey To be a good It's a Fleetwood Mackeyan process Where we're literally A lot of A lot of songs you can kind of Are grappling with inter-band dynamics To be honest You know and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning and you're learning from each other. And there's just as much value in that as there is in a personal relationship or some other experience that you went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much time together, that is literally like it does end up becoming a part of like what occupies our minds and what we're processing and going through. Yeah. Two things that come to mind for me. For me, songs that are incredibly impactful for me as a listener are songs that feel like the writer was very connected to themselves from within, very honest. And I think when you aren't just a solo artist, but you're in a collective, you have to get to a place where you're safe enough to be vulnerable. and and for me you know songs and music I can be more honest in songs than than you know talking about something you know talking about that theme and and when you have you know multiple relationships and then there's dynamics and in groups right you have to you have to work with to get to a place where you feel safe with one another in order to kind of release in such an honest way and create in such an honest way which then if everyone guards come down you know in the like the recording writing process as a collective then you know that's another layer of of connection in the process that is so powerful and that nuance and magic can be captured in live takes you know in the music itself and so it's just building upon this connection that starts within the individual and then it starts moving outward you know and and so i think therapy is is necessary for that just it really gives a lot of tools in in terms of communication i think that's the biggest takeaway is just learning how to be more understanding and more curious um with one another in communication and the second thing it baffles me that it isn't more of a norm. It's, I think in my mind, the support, the infrastructures that support bands, like labels, there should be an arm of, like a mental health arm, a holistic kind of domain that is supporting the bands because it's a pretty, it's, you know, it's like a faceless marketplace that's not considering the human and it's not sustaining. And there's a reason why addiction is prevalent amongst musicians and why, you know, it's mind-boggling to me. And we're moving more towards support, but I wish that there were, even within, there was more of a recognition and infrastructure for that than just kind of tertiary, you know, organizations. But yeah, I'm grateful that we found this incredible, incredible therapist who I knew intuitively would, you know, she really emphasizes group dynamics. And it really, she's resonated with everyone and she's been amazing for us. I have to thank you for sharing that. You know, a lot of people assume that, you know, you have it all. You've got this great band and you're touring the world and, you know, people don't realize how difficult it can be for artists to be together like that. And music is a therapy in and of itself, but you still need levels of things to get yourself through life. And for you to share that is pretty astounding, actually. You know, you're letting, you're feeling vulnerable enough to say that publicly. And I bet it helps a lot of people to know that even the most talented and, you know, famous people actually do need some help too. And it's okay to get that. And it works. Oh, yeah. I mean, thank you for even, you know, thank you for saying that. You know, I think I can't help but just always, you know, be honest. I know. I'm cursed with it, too. But I think that, you know, there's always and there's always a thread of of deep gratitude and understanding of the privilege and the gift that that we have through everything, you know, and that's what one of the drivers and that keeps us going, you know, and and and that, you know, grand acknowledgement. um but you know every relationship we're human and um and if you're human in a relationship there's always going to be it's always a dance of understanding and then you multiply that times so many and and and also you know when we started as a band we were young we we we were trying to to stay informed and be sage and all these things, but we were still, we, this was new for all of us and we didn't know one another. So we didn't have that foundation. And so all of this is happening and it was just, there's such an intensity and an extreme when you're on in the industry, you know, we have extreme stream. Our year, you know, is, is, is booked with extremes where you're on, or you're, you're really on, or you're really off, you're gone and away, or you're home. And, you know, and so I think it's just, it's trying to navigate those extremes to kind of bring them more towards the center in a healthy, balanced way. When did you first both discover that music had healing benefits to your fans and to listeners of music? Well, yeah, I think we all started making music because we recognize that power, you know, from, you know, very, very, very, very young. um uh we you know whether it be music the way we experienced it you know going to for me it was catholic church every sunday and you know and sharing songs with uh family members my grandfather was a singer and um you know just the the shared experience that you have with that my parents were big huge music fans and so we grew up listening to all the classics you know like they have great taste. Bob Dylan records and Neil Young records and Bruce Springsteen and Buddy Holly and music from the 50s and the 40s and a lot of great jazz records too and just pretty, you know, as an early teen slash tween, I guess before I was even a teenager I had an older brother who started learning guitar and kind of we formed a band with our close neighbor down the street and it became this very immediate like uh form of processing and an outlet for stuff that you know feelings and and experiences that you couldn't you know quite necessarily you know uh comprehend you know and so music was always that you know it's always a way of transporting to the to someplace else in a healthy way that that gave us that um drive to do it ourselves essentially and then you know come full circle and seeing what you what you mentioned like with how the music that then you then write affects others is just the most profoundly amazing experience and affirming experience to ever have happen you know you can there's nothing that can even remotely come close to it because you you realize the full circle benefit of putting yourself out there and you and you've you've gotten so much from all the people that came before you and you're channeling and churning your life experiences into these new creations that are doing that for someone else, it's a profoundly gratifying thing. And it's easy to forget that that's what you're doing, you know? But, like, it's just, when you see it on the faces of people that come out to the shows, it's just, it's everything. Yeah, because I think in many ways, in the creation process, I am, I think I was born this way, but also conditioned, I don't know, you know, but I'm a deep empath, a highly sensitive being. And I'm the youngest, you know, and in our family line. And, you know, I can't help but just think of others a lot. But in the music creation process, I'm not thinking about anyone else. I'm, again, trying to be honest, the most honest that I can be with myself so I can connect to the deep parts of who I am and also be open to receiving whatever is coming from beyond me. And it's cathartic and healing for myself. And so it's extremely, not unexpected, but surprising every time. And so beautiful to know that someone is reacting in the same way like to to the music to how i i did when i was making it and so i think there's that you know you can't you can't um truth is truth can't help but be attractive you know and connect so it's that's the power you know and it's beyond i say like the the the most powerful you know songs and music canon come from this place that is beyond yourself beyond the writer and in the room and you're almost receiving, you know, you're a conduit and vessel for this. And so it's outside of ourselves, you know, what we're connecting with. Absolutely. And empaths can have a hard time with large crowds. But it makes sense, though, because you're sucking in all of the energy, the good and the bad and all of it. But the weird thing is at a concert where you have fans of your music and you're fans of making the music and performing it, and you're feeding off of each other all the good, then that's a safe large crowd environment for someone who picks up on all that stuff, which it just kind of dawned on me. I've always had issues with large crowds, and I've never been a musician on stage making them just feel amazing. So it just sort of dawned on me that that's how you could probably handle it. Yeah, 100%. And as a fan, you know, I think about experiences and like when I'll, you know, be in the audience, we've been lucky enough to see, you know, Paul McCartney a couple of times. And, you know, just like you look at the faces and the tears streaming down, these strangers that you don't know that are sitting in the same row as you and you sharing in this experience. And this music has meant the same thing to them as it's meant to you for so long, for decades and decades, your whole life. and so as a fan you know that that's what's happening in the audience or at least you as a performer that's what you hope is happening in the audience and and you know that it is when you see and you look out and you see those tears and you see those smiles and you see that release that everyone's experience experiencing and it just gives you the ability to reinvigorate what those songs meant to you in the first place when you were writing them and and it just yeah i mean it is a spiritual experience there's no other way of putting it like that's the whole like that's the joy of of live music and of concerts and especially with artists that you love it's all about it's all about that shared sense of community and shared history and catharsis and all the good things and it's and it's crazy that you know that can that it's it's that like power to unify um especially in like the the live the live music setting you know is um i always go back to the fact that i learned a few years ago that the average american attends one one concert per year and so it's a rare occurrence to be in attendance at this concert you know um and i think that there's so much power in that and so everyone in attendance you don't you don't know their relationship with the music but nine times out of ten they've been moved deep enough by the music to want to come see an experience alive and and so it's this rare occurrence for the person but everyone is is drawn there for the same reason and you and and it's like you're uniting thousands of people are are united um and connecting in various moments and ways um and songs and that is such a powerful beautiful thing to have in society um and moving moving our collective you know towards unification towards connection um and away from division like that that is the tool that music can have live live music and also just listening to it you know on headphones or in your car having that as a tool that can heal and and bring us you know move us away from fear and more towards love on that spectrum is beyond extraordinary. And, you know, I think we're learning there's evidence, there's greater and greater evidence on the neurological side of how it can heal the individual and thus the collective in our society. Yes. Listening to music, going to shows together and listening to music, all of it. We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved Me podcast. And by the way, if you like this podcast, you are going to love our companion podcast called Take in a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend Buzz Knight, and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses in different places but just an embracing of the isness of it all if you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology creativity and real life this episode is a must listen listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion. will all be on full display. Thank you so much, iHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at veeps.com or the veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more, about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wodham and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. my latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. Hilary opens up about complicated family dynamics, motherhood, and releasing her first record in over 10 years. We talk about what it's taken to grow up in the entertainment industry and stay grounded through every chapter. It's a raw and honest conversation about identity, evolution, and building a life that truly matters. You desire in family, like, this picture, and that's not reality. A lot of the time it's for people. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life. And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast, the podcast where we discuss the healing powers of music with some of the biggest names in music, as well as up-and-comers. Maddie, we'll start with you. Who are some of your favorite artists or songs that have truly impacted you, say, at maybe a particularly difficult time in your life? Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, because there's countless. There's so many. I can think back to my teenage years and listening to bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Green Day and bands that I looked up to when I was younger. and going through the trials and tribulations of early adulthood and the Bachelor No. 2 record by Emmy Mann and Rufus' Want records are just so influential and so got me through my early 20s. Neil Young's Silver and Gold around a similar period of time, Harvest Moon, just countless acts like that. one of the ones that always sticks out in my head and it wasn't necessarily a personal difficult time, but as a nation, post 9-11 Bruce Springsteen puts out The Rising and it's just this absolute he sums up so many of the feelings we were all having in this way, they're like, I don't know how you performed that magic trick but thank you for that, you know what I mean and every so often you just have to come I come to this like realization like oh my god thank god I live at the time that I live where these people gave these gifts to all of us uh because it's I can't imagine my life without it and I can put those records on that I put on it when I was in my early 20s or in my teens and I have the exact same feeling that I had and I can remember the the reason why I was going through something in that moment. You know, I can re-experience painful as it was, like when I lost one of my best friends to a drug overdose or when I lost my grandparents or all these different feelings that you go through in life and they come right back to you, you know, but then, of course, they're viewed through the lens of history and all the things that you learned and processed before that And after that, it just becomes, it's just a very peaceful feeling because you get, you realize, okay, I can put this record on whenever I want to. And it's like, I can't believe all the anxiety that I was having because of what I was having was happening today. It just drifts away. It's gone. And I have that, that release again. Um, it's, it's an incredible gift. So yeah. I have a question. Were there, like talking about your grandfather, was there a specific song that kind of in the moment, I guess, of his life's decline and mental decline that point to? Yeah, you could probably Google the words. I can't remember the name of the actual artist because it was we didn't really have it. It was pre Google. Pre smartphone. Back in the day. Yeah, back in the good old days. But it was like, here's my song, Violetta. It's the song that's in my heart. And this is, you know, my grandfather who had Alzheimer's was, you know, not capable of conversation in a way other than kind of reliving stories and reliving things that he had gone through in the distant, distant past. but these songs and these melodies would come back up and he would sing them over and over again and he'd just kind of have an appreciation for the staying power. It lives in a different part of you than the part of the brain that we typically access when we're responding to an email or driving down the highway or whatever the case might be. It lives somewhere else. It lives in the soul. And so it's amazing to see that happen in real time with someone who has a mental decline or something like Alzheimer's, which my grandmother did. Does that answer your question? Take it from here, Charity. yeah well i mean i think i think the more that i learn we learn you know but just about how there's you know a part of the brain that can only be communicated with through music is is and the fact that our brains have evolved you know to maintain this uh access is is said something you know and um that makes me think of the disney film coco that happened to be the first kind of dizzy film we showed our our eldest who's four almost four yeah i think just the power to be able to communicate and heal you know that means the music the power that music has to do that um that is beyond a talk talking a talk therapy or somatic therapy or that makes me i can't help but cry hearing about that um just to make you feel better I think almost every one of these podcasts that I've done has brought me to tears in a good way, but it's there. I mean, you don't see it, but I'm, I turn around, I'm like, yeah, it's just so special. All of that. For me, can I share with you? Our song hurts, but it goes away. Oh, interesting. Okay. So tell me first, You have to tell me about the song because for me, having someone, my husband or my best friend or someone, anyone close to me when I'm going through something, they say to me, it's going to be okay. That changes everything, especially if it's someone that you trust and love and they tell you that. You need to hear that sometimes. I was just curious if you could tell me a little bit about that song. yeah i guess the line that sticks out to me is like um um i've been noticing the leaves are changing colors uh it just kind of like it's it's talking about the passage of time and despite the fact that we are might be in the thick of it right now there's beauty in in in the passage of time and and and the healing lies there i'm not the only one who feels the weight of this you know it knows it shows that you're not the only person going through this. It's a shared experience, regardless of whether or not you feel like you're at the center of it. We're all in this together, even when it comes down to your own personal struggles, because everyone shares those struggles at one point or another in their life, and they are always an invitation to take the next step and move beyond the plane of existence that you've been on and step towards something greater than you would have conceptualized had you not gone through that experience in the first place. And so, yeah, like to say it goes away, I mean, it's almost like it would be better almost to say it hurts and it stays with you. It gets better. It gets easier to deal with. To quote the great Britney Spears, stronger than yesterday. No, it's one of those things where you become stronger for it, if that makes sense. Right. And I think as a person who carries and lives with heightened anxiety, I'd say, you know, and I think that there's a lot of collective pain in the endemic of anxiety. but emotional and mental pain and suffering that we all kind of dance through on a daily basis to varying degrees. Living with anxiety, it's really the understanding that kind of trying to find the hope. Hope is the only way to kind of bring you out of that and bring you through it. And not thinking worst case scenario, bringing you out of that cycle. and that things, your thoughts aren't, it's not the end of the world, you know, and that's, you find that hope and then you build that strength and that resilience to be able to move forward. You know, again, music is one of the main tools that can bring me through that. Yeah, it's kind of funny. You could read a thousand self-help books before you realize like, oh, all I really needed to do was put on my favorite record and that had the same effect of just release and self-actualization that you were looking for in the first place. You know, there's a lot of like, I think we've all been through the part where you're kind of just, I mean, I can't say this is true for everyone, I'm sure it is, but like you're just overthinking everything all the time and you're like, oh my God, I've just remembered that Harvest Moon exists. I'm going to put Harvest Moon on. I did that last week. I was like, okay, everything is good now. you know you're able to quiet the noise you're able to quiet the noise and it's like a form of meditation really you know and i guess to reference kind of songs particular songs that were poignant for me along my life you know um thus far you know as as a child i grew up in a musical household with my mother being a violinist violist orchestra teacher so i couldn't help but be surrounded and played violin since I was very young. And so classical music, I was just, we listened to that so much. And also I have two older sisters and then my mother that I grew up with and we would sing hymns a lot as well. There are moments when I remember singing hymns in my grandma's Cadillac in small town Minnesota, where we moved to for a handful of years as a kid. And being the youngest, I would always add the last harmony. I would fit in where I could, which is a lot. It applies to being in this band too with my harmonies I always kind of the last voice to find their way One classical song that I always come back to and now i playing for my one daughter who calls it the most so so beautiful and makes her fall asleep at the same time is uh debussy's claire de lune which is just one of the most that it makes me feel all of the emotions um whenever i put that um song on um as well as um carnival of the animals the swan song by Saint-Saëns. Both of those tracks I think I could go to for the rest of my life and have carried with me since being a kid. But then moving forward, Green Day's Good Riddance, Time of Your Life, came out right when I was 12. Like I said, we had moved... I'm born and raised Seattle. All my extended family were in Minnesota, including my grandma core in small town and it was kind of near the end of her life. So my parents moved us all out to have a relationship with her and the rest. And for me, I had quite an existential crisis and realized that has since then given me this kind of fierce independence and understanding, like being comfortable with isolation. And, you know, later in my life really lends itself to writing songs for the first time, etc. But I remember the day that we moved away and we had like an overnight actually with our church community. And they put Green Day is Good Riddance as the soundtrack to the photos, the photo like the slideshow. I was profoundly moved by that song. For my sisters, there was sadness for the leaving of the relationships community. And now we're, you know, we're moving back to Seattle. For me, there was, it was almost tears of joy. And I'll never forget just the visual of me, like looking out of the rear of the car. And us all waving, you know, goodbye. But for me, it was, you know, these tears of joy knowing, you know, I'm good friends. Like, I'm happy to be leaving you. I'm happy to be moving on and moving back to where I feel like my home really is, you know, back in Seattle. And, yeah, I'll never, you know, forget the poignance of that song. And come to think of it, you know, there's such a like violin instrumental in the middle of that song, you know, for quite a long time. And that obviously resonates with me. But speaking of hymns, you know, growing up with that, when I when we moved home to Seattle and probably a couple of years later, right before I started getting a guitar and writing, writing music, Sister Act Two, my sister and I would sing to, you know, the classic hymn. his eyes on the sparrow. And that was really my introduction into Lauryn Hill. We would always, you know, duet that song. And there's such profound power in that rendition and that song. And that really opened up my world to, you know, Lauryn Hill and the education, her solo stuff. And, you know, she was a huge, huge influence on me, you know, musically and just seeing the power of music. It's pretty powerful. There's something about harmonies, too. that I don't know what it is. Yes. It's just powerful. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I wish I knew what it was. Still trying to figure it out. We're learning. Yes. Now, I have a couple more things that I want to ask you about before I let you go because you've been so generous with your time. First of all, I wanted to comment on something you said earlier. It's almost as if the way you were describing music was your record shelf, for lack of a better word, or the thing you go through to find your albums or however you get your music, which is kind of dating myself now, is kind of like your medicine cabinet. Totally. So you go in there and you have a problem and you're looking for which one is going to help you get through that moment. Yes. But that was just a comment. Your new album, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is more about what you had just spoken about, hope and light. Can you tell us a little bit more what we're going to find on that new album? We've been going through this period of not knowing who we are, not necessarily being satisfied with where we are, you know, not necessarily appreciating the things that are beautiful that are already there. And the idea is that, you know, we're stepping forward into something new that feels that that's always been there, but we're only now opening up the aperture, opening up our ability to, to see it and to take it in for the, you know, again, as if it was, uh, you know, for the first time. Uh, and so it's kind of like, um, those moments in life where you've, you, whether you've met two or not, you, you've kind of been, uh, having sort of some sort of long, dark night of the soul. I've always loved that phrase. And I feel like it's very apt for songwriters and myself. You go through these periods of despair and depression, and they seem like they're going to last forever. And all of a sudden, whatever the lessons that were in that period of time, they congeal in your brain. and somehow you've translated them into the lesson that you needed to learn at that point in your life. And all of a sudden it's like, okay, I have this new... I get to take a walk down the street and all of a sudden it just feels different again. I'm taking notice of the color of the moss on the branches. I'm starting to see the things that were always there, but for a while you were shut off to. And so there's sort of hope in that. And another line in the song is, time was made for running out. Don't know why it took us so long. The sun was made for coming out, even though the night is long. So it's kind of just giving you, again, the reassurance that you've been through this before, it's going to happen again, but the sun always rises at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day. Well, it depends on where you are. The wrong analogy to use at that moment. It sounds like to looking, what you're saying is, you know, finding those silver linings when things seem really the darkest and then when you realize what they are, it's time to celebrate that and be okay, which is amazing. And it's almost as if you two or your band collective was picked to do this because you sound like musical therapists. But you're giving of yourself and your skills and talents to those that need it desperately. And it's interesting to hear from your side how much you go through this too. And I think that's so important. Thank you. Thank you. I am really excited to hear about the Rivers and Road Foundation. The Rivers and Roads Foundation. Yes, Roads. Tell us about that. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, so the Rivers and Roads Foundation, really, the heart mission of it is to kind of allow greater access to music education. for children in the Seattle area and greater community, as well as mental health support and access to services for musicians. So a lot of, you know, kind of it was a very natural extension for the band and how really understanding how we can support the community that supported our band in the early days and the foundation leading to where we are. And again, going back to understanding the power of music as a necessary tool to have in society, young society especially, and also having a compassionate understanding of the need for mental health support for artists and for crew, you know, who support the artists on the road and in venues and such. And we're lucky that we have a bunch of really amazing pre-existing nonprofits in Seattle that we kind of allocate. Partner with the Seattle Initiative. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we've been able to like over the, you know, each year designate a different recipient of the funds that we've been able to raise. And so, um, and so there's an infrastructure, you know, because our own infrastructure is more just a fundraiser essentially. And then we were able to give that to different organizations that can then translate that into direct, you know, person to person, uh, benefit to, you know, in different communities, uh, within, within Seattle. So that's great. You guys just keep doing what you're doing. I'm so impressed and And you're just so lovely. And it was so wonderful to meet you. And Maddie and Charity, please come back and see us again and share more great stories from your career. I suspect you have many, many, many more years of performing and giving back. And I'm just blessed to know you and to meet you. Thank you. Likewise. Thank you so, so much for having us. I'm grateful. Thank you for having this type of podcast that really is not, you know, as you were saying earlier, not the gossip fluff train of sorts. It's, you know, really getting to the heart of what makes us human, you know, and what connects us. And so thank you for giving us a platform and for your time to share it with us. It's really true. It's like what music does. You know, we could have we could talk to you all day about this. You know what I mean? How long do you have? As long as my kids are in school, we've got a few more hours. I have so much more to talk to you now. All right, well, listen, part two down the road. Go out, kick some ass, take some names, and just keep doing what you're doing. Keep rocking the free world. And I'm sure that we will cross paths again, and we'll have part two. Absolutely, yes, please. We'd love to. All right, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much, iHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at veeps.com or the veeps app. Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? 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