Answering the SPICIEST Questions About Marriage, S3X, and Gender Roles | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Respecting your husband is a command. It's not if he's earned it or if he's been really sweet to you or if he's deserving of it. It's a command. The big thing here for men, you use your authority to bless your family. You are the loving head of your home. You are not the selfish head of your home. You've probably been told many times before that God is preparing a man for you, but the reality is God is preparing you for a man. Well, hey, Live Free Nation, thanks for watching today. Hey, here's what you need to know. this podcast is being recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But what God is doing here is not just for Dallas. We believe it is for you. No matter where you are, Lake Point Church Online is a real community, real people, real prayer, real discipleship. And so if you've been listening to the Live Free podcast and thinking, man, I wish I could be a part of something like that. Well, you can. Every weekend we stream live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's not just a broadcast. We've got live hosts in the chat. We've got prayer teams ready to stand with you and clear next steps to help you grow from groups to serving and beyond. You don't have to just consume content. You can belong wherever you are. If you are traveling, deployed or out of state or just checking things out, this is our invitation to you. Join us live this weekend. We have services Saturday and Sunday. Jump in the chat. Let us know where you're watching from. The link is in the description of this video. We would love to see you at church online. Fine. Let's kick this pig. Let's do it. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Marriage Weekend episode of LaPree. We're so excited for it. I got Miss Jana with me, and we're going on a date right after this. We are. Best night of the week. I know. I'm really excited. So here's what's getting ready to happen. This is going to be an awesome episode. We're holding hands right now. It's going to be an awesome episode. What we're going to do is dive in, and it's going to be a little spicy here. So let me explain what's getting ready to happen. We're going to talk about things like submission and headship. And we're not going to do the thing that sometimes I used to do as a pastor. I refuse to do it anymore. Where I used to spend half the sermon explaining what those things didn't mean. Instead of just leaning right in and going, nope, here's what they mean. It's like what we should do. That's good. So here's what we're going to talk about. Submission and headship. Are there things married couples shouldn't do in the bedroom? So here's what we're doing. We're not trying to be shock jocks. I'm trying to like talk about all the stuff that I didn't get a hit in the sermon. Yeah. And these are real issues that you've told us you just you need someone to talk more about. So we're hitting them. Yeah. So yeah. So hitting that. Should married people have friends of the opposite sex? I want to answer that right now. Jan has pre-decided all the in-laws questions. How do we set boundaries? What are appropriate boundaries? We're going to talk about dating. When is it OK to get a divorce? How do you know that when you're dating that a person is for you? So we're just going to go there and all this stuff. For people who are listening, let me give a quick heads up and a disclaimer. There's going to be a couple moments in this deal that I'd say are more like PG-11, but we are going to just specifically answer. I think we had like – it looked like 400 or 500 questions. It was so many. So we're just going to answer those questions. So heads up, there may be a couple moments that are like a little PG-11, and then I always want to give caveats when we talk about stuff like this. when jan and i talk for because what people like to do is clip something out of context and then you know nail you on the internet yes the internet is very fair loving and safe place yes irony um so uh uh we are talking in the next few minutes um about uh under normal circumstances so what sometimes people will do is they'll take something you say and say what about and they'll throw out this wild edge case yeah it's so heads up that's a disclaimer talking about under normal circumstances. And then last thing, and then we're going to get right at it here, is there's a couple moments, if you're new to the podcast, where we're just going to go right at what the word says. Yeah. And there are a few things that if you're not as much of a word person, you're going to be like, I can't believe I just said that. Because it's very different than how the world thinks of things, especially around words like submitting to your husband. The husband is the head of the wife as Christ the head of the church. And I think what I would just say is like, why would you want to do what the world does? The world sucks at marriage. Right. And we are disciples. We love Jesus. We love the word, so we want to obey it. That's exactly right. That's going to be fun. It is. We're going to have fun doing it. Real quick, want to give a shout out. So here's what you can do. We got every week, we're giving away live-free hats. Here's our hat winner for the week. We got Miss Dana Garcia. And I'm going to read this because it made me happy. Oh, it's so sweet. She said, love the podcast. Been listening since the first episode. Keep going at it. God is moving. Also, please keep bringing Jana. We love her. So sweet. I know. So we got Miss Dana. Hats on her way. If you could, we want to just blanket the place with live free hats. So we got them right here. If you can head over to YouTube and drop a comment there. just put hat or give us your no don't do that that could go sideways just put hat there you go yeah just put hat that's safe any comment on the YouTube thing that's gonna we'll pick like I'm just gonna say it we're gonna pick 10 winners sorry guys and we're gonna give away 10 hats and then I also want to say we have like tons of people who are starting to come to a Lake Point campus we're in DFW oh it's been so much fun insane. Yes. From the podcast. Yes. And so if you come to one of our campuses and head to one of the first time guest tents, we will give you a free hat. You just walk up and say, hey, I came from the Live Free podcast. We'll give you a free hat. Oh, so come hang. Sorry. I interrupted you. I the crazy story, though, like I so I'm out in the lobby between services. I try to talk to as many people as I can. And we had a couple from Australia that listened to the podcast and came to town and it's just incredible. It's ridiculous. I love what God's doing. Shout out to Live Free Nation. I know. It's great. And then Arthur can you send me some deal? I think somebody's coming on their honeymoon. Oh no, I'm wrong. Never mind. We have people coming from business meetings. That's very different than a honeymoon. Well, someone from Canada is coming this week. There you go. And they're excited about marriage. It's going to be awesome. man yeah it's gonna be awesome yeah okay so uh that's what we're gonna do we're gonna get right at it now i think uh reverend arazzo what are you gonna do here we're not prepared we have no idea what's getting ready to happen it'll be quick this game's called thumbs up thumbs down okay and uh so i need you to extend your thumb like that you know and if i i'll say okay so okay there you go so I'll share quick popular marriage advice and very quick you will say either yep thumbs up or thumbs down if you agree disagree and then if you want to say something additional you can do it in one sentence that's it and then we'll keep we'll move quick here okay okay marriage is supposed to be 50 50 thumbs down happy wife happy life there's some truth to that okay look can I give You've got one sentence. Okay. What happy wife, happy life actually means is that a husband judges his happiness on whether or not his wife is happy. I'll just say that. That's pretty good. There you go. There's a right and a wrong way to load the dishwasher. Oh, yes. Oh. James is very happy. I'm like, it got in there? Yes. You got one sentence. Oh, I get one sentence. But I think there is a right way, and there are certain places where all the plates need to go. And I think I show Josh like every day. This is where it goes. Not untrue. Sharing phone passwords is mandatory. Yeah, absolutely. Blanket stealing in bed is a crime. We don't have that problem. We don't do that. Sarcasm keeps the marriage fun. Ooh, gross. Happy husband, happy life. you know i like we we talked about that i mean i'm okay can i yeah if i'm happy i'm happy can i say this yeah go so one of the things that we were talking about as we were discussing and i was just like okay this is a way you lead our family like josh comes home like he's happy even if there's been a weighty day like hard things have happened like you you don't wear that like you come in you're joyful you're always finding something to be happy about or something positive to say and so sorry that was really long but but yeah like i think i don't know i think that we take our cues from the head of our house and whenever he's happy then the house is happier when a man of god walks into his home peace should walk with him yeah whoever cooks shouldn't have to do dishes oh i no no i i do i mean i still do the dishes that's my job that's my thumbs down That's one of my jobs. Okay. Sex once a month is enough. Oh, my gosh. Sorry for you. The trash. For people who are just listening, we're thumbs down. The trash doesn't have to be completely full before taking it out. Oh, no, man. Wait until it's up there and you push it down two or three times. Jenna disagrees. That's what the house does. Yeah. So I still think it needs to be full before you take it out. Okay. Yeah. And then last one, when your spouse says, I'm fine, they're actually fine. Oh, no. Don't say fine. Don't say fine to even your friends. Like, fine is not fine. Extremely helpful. Well done. Great job, guys. Thank you. Thank you, Carlos. All right. So for anybody that missed it, this podcast, I strongly recommend when you're done going back and listening to the sermon. What we did this week is we began a series called Investigating Jesus, where essentially from now up until – actually, it's the week after Easter. we are essentially walking through the gospel of luke and asking questions that people tend to ask about jesus so um here here's what the series is going to look like i'm pretty excited about it this week we hit what did jesus say about marriage divorce and sex and so you need to go check that out we did a theology of marriage divorce which is tough and remarriage all that stuff then we're hitting um if jesus is real why didn't he answer my prayer did jesus claim to be god or did Constantine make it up? That's a thing people say. What did Jesus say about government and politics? What did Jesus say about heaven, hell, and the afterlife? Why did Jesus have to die on a cross? Is there evidence Jesus rose from the dead, or is that a myth made up by his followers? When will Jesus return, and what will he do then? That's the week after Easter. And what did Jesus say about corrupt religious leaders? Now this week, obviously, we hit what did Jesus say about marriage, divorce, and sex. So we're going to get right at it and hit a whole bunch of things in a very direct way that we didn't have time to get on the podcast. It's going to be fun. Yeah, it's going to be great. On the sermon, it's going to be fun. So, okay, Jana, here's how this podcast can go. We're going to take a few minutes and talk about biblical roles of husbands and wives in marriage unapologetically. We're going to talk about wives as the respectful helper and husbands as a loving head. And then we're going to start rapid firing answers to people's questions that were really common. So let me lead into this. And then Jana, I actually would just like you, why don't you go ahead and here in a second, just start talking about what do wives need to hear about what it means to be a helper for their husbands in marriage. So let me just kind of get a running start into this and then we can go right at it. So what you're going to hear, here's the reason there is so much opposition in our culture to this is what you'll notice in the Bible is that when God does things in the Bible, he creates in binaries. So if you go back to Genesis, It's very binary. It's darkness and light, sun and moon, land and sea, male and female. It's very binary. And then what Satan does is whatever God creates, Satan tries to confuse. So Satan comes along to something like a gender binary that God created. And Satan goes, you know what? Maybe it's not a binary. Maybe it's more like a spectrum. Maybe it's more like a rainbow, you know, that kind of thing. So Satan's always trying to do that. But what we see in the Bible is that men and women, they are created radically differently, which points to the fact that they have radically different roles in marriage, the church, society, all of those things. So like, man, I'll just say this for anybody that's got sort of opposition to this. If you look in the Bible, God created men and women differently. That's very obvious. Jesus said he created them male and female in the passage we preached this week. Then if you go to Genesis 3, God gives the man and the woman different curses. Then they're given different commands all throughout the scripture. There are gender-specific commands all throughout the Bible. You even get to places like 1 Corinthians 11, and it's like – I mean it's very like, hey, dudes, like this is actually a Bible verse. I'm probably unpacking it at some point. Paul's like, hey, doesn't nature teach you that if a man has long hair, it's to his disgrace. But if a woman, you know, then long hair is her glory. And kind of what he's saying is like, hey, man, quit doing things that erase the gender distinctions. And so those are things that we lean into and we celebrate, not that we explain away and try to erode. So that said, let's just go right at it in something that has a bit of a wick coming out of it. But Jana, can you start talking to us about what does it mean in the Bible for a wife to be a helper? I would love to. Oh, actually, can I hit the respect first? You can do whatever you want. You can do whatever you want. Okay. All right. Well, the first thing I want to do before hitting that is that I just want you to know. So reviewing all the questions and praying over what we were going to say today and just praying just over you. I just want you to know, anyone who's coming here hurting today and you're hoping for a new marriage, I just want you to know there is so much hope for you. And God is able, he is able to just work and refine and redeem everything that, like I love that passage in Lamentations, everything that the locusts have eaten. So he can redeem all of that in your life and restore it. And so I just want you to know there's hope for you. And so I'm glad you're here today. So I'm going to hit, so I'm going to get to talk about being a respectful helper. So I want to hit respect first. So you can't really hit respect without going to Ephesians 5, 22 through 33. So I'm not going to read the entire thing, but I just want to give our ladies the homework to go to Ephesians. Read 5 through verses 22 through 33, but I'm going to hit verse 33. And it says, however, let each one of you love his wife as himself and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Yeah, real quick. Let me just interject. So that's why we get the helper and head distinction from Genesis. That's where we get our theology of wife is helper, husband is head. But then what Jana just read, the Ephesians passage, it adds an adjective. It gives a specific command to a wife. Hey, your job is to lean into respecting the head. Yes. And then it gives a specific command to the husband. Your job is to lean into loving the helper. So that if you want it, that's where we're getting this language. Wife as respectful helper, husband as loving head. OK, so I mean, you kind of I think we need to just define like what respect is and like what what that looks like. So respecting your husband is, you know, it's esteeming his God given role as head of your home. You speak and act towards him with honor and support him in a way that you want to elevate him. So husbands, just like Josh just said, like husbands are to love their wives. That's the command they are given. But wives are given the command to respect their husbands. And so I just remember in past we've gotten pushback from people on those things. But women need love, too, or women need to be respected, too. Well, we're not disagreeing with you. Both men need love. Men need respect. Women need love. Women need respect. But the thing that, you know, is really going to like fill a man's tank is respect. He doesn't run on love the same way a woman does. Dude, that's okay. Also, let me interject something here. What husbands and wives need to understand about this too is some of the reason that Paul gives the distinction in the commands. Husbands, love, wives, respect is he understands the way that men are created. that men more naturally respect people and not as naturally love people. Women are far more naturally loving, not as naturally respectful. So you can freak out all you want on that. This is fact. So if you're around a bunch of dudes, they'll respect each other all day long. Like, hey, man, respect for athletic prowess or accomplishments, that kind of thing. But men are not as good at like, hey, man, my bro is hurting. Let me sit down and weep with those who weep. Like that's that doesn't come quite as natural. Right. Women, they'll like all day long, like I'll weep with those who weep and lean in on the loving. But, you know, women, you know, and not all not. We're making general generalizations here. So, you know, sometimes women can be not as good at naturally respecting. So that's where some of that's coming from. Right. That's right. Respect is what women can do to feed their marriage. It's going to build your man up, and that's what you want to do because there's so much power within your words. In Scripture, like we always want to base things on Scripture. So Proverbs 18, 21, death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. So you can build him up or you can tear him down, but there's going to be fruit either way. So do you want good fruit or bad fruit? So obviously you want good fruit in your marriage. So I think this is why I think women get frustrated because they're like, oh, I'm doing all these things and I'm not getting anything reciprocated. Well, I think what you're probably doing is you are trying to love your husband the way you want to be loved rather than respecting him how he needs to be respected. So we're just in general, people tend to want to give to others what they want to receive. So you need to start thinking in different terms, like you need to start thinking in terms of respecting him. So I just want to hit this, and I'm going to be just very blunt. Respecting your husband is a command. It's not if he's earned it or if he's been really sweet to you this week or if he's deserving of it. It's a command. You are told that's your responsibility. God has given you this responsibility to respect your husband. So start speaking to and about him with honor. So praise his strength. Praise what he's good at. What is your husband uniquely good at? And I've had women say, well, I just don't think there's anything. And I'm like, no, no, no. Why did you marry him? There is something that you found attractive in him, something that you loved about him, something that he does well. So go back to those moments. Find them because you're going to find something. So find something specific and be specific. Don't just give a blanket. You're great. Like, what is he specifically good at? And what is he specifically, like, doing that is blessing your family? Even if it's just taking out the trash, praise him for that. Like, wow, that was such a huge blessing to me. Thank you so much. So I'm going to give some examples because I know that examples just, they help. So I just always want to have words like for you whenever we're talking or you're coming home or whatever that I like I want to encourage you or build you up. So I'm always like, you know, thank you so much for working so hard for our family. Like, I mean, every every time I like do our grocery shopping, thank you so much for working so hard because, you know, groceries get expensive. So I'm like every time I grocery shop, I'm like, oh, I'm so thankful for Josh. He takes such good care of us. You actually, I want people to know, she actually does that. I do. Like almost every single time she finishes the little, what's it called? Instacart? What's it called? Yeah. I do Instacart because it's a blessing in my life. It's a blessing. It's a blessing. It's no joke. Like, I feel like every single time you do it, you look, hey, thanks so much for working so hard to provide for our family. Yes. Yeah. Because it just, it automatically makes me think of you. Like, it's like, what a gift. Like any little thing that it can be big or little. But, okay, let's take an example of like, okay, he decides to lead your family in prayer. Like, thank you so much for leading us in prayer. That blessed the kids and you are pointing them back to Christ and, you know, just say thank you. Like, okay, let's say you're sitting in your life group or your rooted group. I've really loved what you had to say on that topic tonight. That really, you know, blessed me. And I'm going to keep thinking about that. God really used you. Like you want to affirm his fatherhood. Like, okay, if you see him doing something great with the kids, like you are such a great dad. Our kids are so lucky to have you. What a blessing you are. I love how they are so excited whenever you get home because they feel just so safe and loved by you and when you're around. Okay, and then I think you'll like this one. So if you pick up a large package or something big, you'd be like, wow, look at those biceps. Have you been working out? They look great. I really like it. I once told Jana, like, if you want to make a man feel good, say something about his arms. It works. It works. It works. Only me. No, I'm not telling any other man. I'm telling them to tell their man. That's right. But it works. So you figure out the place that your husband needs encouragement and you build them up there. So whenever you are respecting him, you're communicating more than you're aware of. You may think it's just something small and like, y'all, this is easy. It should be this should be out of the overflow of your heart. You know, it's like it's not I mean, think about how you encourage other people. Think about how you build up other people. It's not hard to think of a way that your husband is being a blessing. So if it is, you need to pray about it. You need to observe because you're missing it. You're missing something. Can I highlight some things you're saying real quick? Yes. And then I want to talk about, you know, and then we want to lean into, you know, loving head, respectful helper. So here's the big idea for ladies that are listening. And then men, you need to understand this too, is the way that men are created. Here's how it works. Whatever you affirm multiplies and whatever you criticize metastasizes. I'm going to say this one more time because this is like if you want to totally change your marriage with just the power of the tongue, this is all you got to do. Whatever you affirm multiplies and whatever you criticize metastasizes. So what a woman can do is you got a choice. You can either find the 10 things that really drive you nuts and you can choose to, with your words, highlight those things and talk about those things. And guess what's going to happen? If you do that, whatever you criticize metastasizes. So what women I don't think a lot of times understand is the way God's wired the heart of a husband is it's like there's this thing inside of him that says you're right. And it's whatever a wife says about him, his heart is eventually going to believe you're right. You're right. So if you're like if a wife is constantly being like you don't, you never, I wish you would. Why aren't you? His heart is eventually going to go, you know what? Like you're right, man. I don't think I got what it takes. But if you have, you know, you're such a wonderful. I love you. If you have somebody who like every time you turn around, you know, you finish preaching. And the first thing you hear every week is that was amazing. I don't know how you do what you do. Thank you for working so hard for our family. The podcast was incredible this week. Well, guess what happens in the heart of a man? Is this like you start going, you know what? She's right. I do got what it takes. Yes. So here's the – like what you got to get is you cannot – what some women do is they go, well, I'll respect him when he's respectable. Listen, you cannot disrespect a man into respectability. Here's how it works. You give him a crown, and he's going to become a king. That's right. So you can either, I'm going to choose to focus with my words on these eight things he's not good at, or you can find the one evidence of God's grace in his life, and you can just pour out all your words on that thing, and guess what's going to happen? Whatever you affirm multiplies. Whatever you criticize metastasizes. You took some of my stuff. Oh, I'm sorry. There are multiple things that I wanted to say, but your opinion of him matters more than what anyone else says or thinks. And so I just want to highlight that. Like it really does. You may not think so, but it does. So I did want to say, okay, I'm going to go back to this, but then I want to go back to where you were talking about. You cannot disrespect a man into respectability. But whenever you're respecting, like honestly, respect feels like just, I mean, this is just something we naturally just want to owe and give everyone, especially our husbands. but um when you respect him you communicate that like I trust you I trust your leadership of our family I believe in you and I think that you've got what it takes and you're a great leader so whenever you respecting that going to keep welling up in him and he is going to want to become the man that you you know you believe that he is So whenever you said go ahead can you say it again where you said give him a crown Give him a crown, he's going to become a king. That's right. And I just want to remind women that to the woman who does this, guess what? You're the crown. Scripture is so clear in this Proverbs 12.4. It says, an excellent wife is the crown of her husband. But she who brings shame is like rottenness to his bones. So it's like you're the crown. You're the crown of his life. So if you struggle to respect your husband or you undermine his leadership, I would just tell you just, you know, repent. Repentance is so good. It's so good for us. And, you know, I have to repent on a very regular basis. You need to repent to God, but not only to God. Repent to him. Or if you have said something to your friends or to your kids about him, you need to go to them and make amends there, too, and then just start fresh. And, y'all, I've had to do this this week. I undermined Josh in front of the kids. Wait, tell the story. Okay, so I was kind of— It's good for people to hear an example. Yeah, okay. So Hudson, he's really good at sleeping in sometimes. And so I got really excited because he was sleeping in and I was like, all right, I get a, I already have my time in the ward. I'm going to get my workout in before I need to start doing school with the kids. And so I was like, I already had my shoes on. I was getting ready to walk out to the garage to work out. And then Josh goes to get Hudson. And then I'm like, I'm in the kitchen and I'm like, what is he doing? And the girls are sitting there. I was like, I'm supposed to be willing to work out right now. And I was like, now, now I've got to do breakfast. So I was kind of just having a little moment, a little pity party there. So then I realized, I was like, oh, this is not good. I just modeled really bad behavior in front of my girls. And so I went to Josh and told him and asked for his forgiveness. And then you know what we do after that? We move on. That's right. We move on. We don't talk. I mean, we don't need to talk about it again. We don't keep bringing it up and like, remember that time? That's right. Oh, there's one more thing. You were talking earlier. You said whenever you're getting the examples, you always do this. You never do that. And I just I want to say that is not accurate. And like the truth of it is, is you know it because that you are speaking out of emotion. That might be how you're feeling, but that's not accurate. He doesn't always do this. He doesn't never do that. So stop thinking in terms like that and just start start seeing what he is doing. Okay, let me – I'm going to tell a story about how far – like so here's the big idea is there's the word and the world, and the word and the world are in constant conflict, and everybody has to decide. Man, am I going to side with – am I going to let the word stand in authority over the world and judge what the world says, or am I going to let the world stand in authority over the word and judge what the word says? And the reason people freak out about commands like, hey, wives, you're supposed to be respectful helpers for your husband, and husbands, you're supposed to be loving heads of your wife. And the reason people freak out about it is they have been emotionally calibrated to the world instead of the word. Because honestly, man, these are not debatable or controversial commands in the Bible. And here's a big idea, man. His commands are not burdensome. What man – listen, like we've seen this. The more we lean into these commands that the world says are oppressive and domineering, it's actually the opposite. It's like we just see like, man, so much life and blessing. So I'll tell an example of this. So I'm hanging out. I won't say who names omitted to protect the guilty. I'm hanging out with a bunch of guys that I'm discipling. And we come across this verse comes up. You know where I'm going here. This verse comes up in first Peter and it's talking about this, about wives submitting to and respecting your husbands. I'm going to read it and I'm going to tell you what happened with these guys. And I read it. So I read this verse and it says to wives, it says, let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart. with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in God's sight. And then verse 5 says, For this is how holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves by submitting to their husbands as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord. And you are her children if you do good and don't fear anything that's frightening. And I read this verse, and one of the guys in the room goes, Well, from now on, I'm going to be asking my wife to call me Lord. And every dude in the room just starts cackling. And honestly, I didn't. And I just pointed out, after everybody stopped laughing, I said, guys, can I just point something out? All I did was just read a Bible verse, and everyone in the room laughed because of how crazy it sounded. And I pointed out the reason everyone in this room feels that is because you are more calibrated. Your expectations are more calibrated to the expectations of the world than the Word. This is a Bible verse that a wife submitted to her husband and called him Lord. And God goes, you know what? Good job, Sarah. I'm so proud of you. And can I just like this will some people this will actually probably freak somebody's going to say this. Somebody's going to go wild on the Internet. Sometimes I will ask Jana for something or if she can do something at home. And what do you say? Sir. Yes, sir. She will. Jana will. She'll call me sir. Yeah. And it's not because, like, if you know anything about us, like, oh, my gosh. It's, like, such a loving, respectful, you know, mutual value. But it's, like, Jana has a – that makes me emotional. You have this spirit that's so beautiful in God's sight. Thank you. But, like, I think my response to that and reaction is, like, whenever I, like, call other – like, say sir to other men, like, you know, somebody – If I say yes, sir, or answer somebody with a boss or a boss or why would I not say that's my husband? You know, if I'm going to respect and show respect to other men, why would I not, you know, want to offer that to my husband? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's going to I'll just know it like that's going to sound absolutely insane. Sure. Some people that listen. But man, that's like the word gives us an example that it's a beautiful, wonderful thing for a wife to go. you know what, I respect and honor the authority of my husband. So, okay. All right, so that's, you got anything else there on respect? The only thing I would say, because you did go to that 1 Peter passage, is that I want to tell you, like, ladies who have unbelieving husbands, and, like, it's like, oh, how do I get my husband to come to the Lord? Like, you know, it's like, well, it tells us you can win him over without a word. But also, it's just like respecting him, building him up. He doesn't have to be a believer for you to respect him. You just continually do that. And when he sees your actions and how different you are in Christ, that's going to be – he's going to want to know more about that. That's exactly right, man. Yep. Okay, let me talk real quick to the dudes about what it means to be a loving head. And then we'll rapid fire. Okay. Hey, give some examples of what's it mean to be a helper as a wife. Where do we get that word from the Bible? And then I'll talk about it from a husband being the head. So let me talk about this. What husbands ought to be according to the Bible in the book of Ephesians says, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, washing her with a cleansing of the word is what it says. So what type of head is a husband supposed to be? We're supposed to be a loving head. So here's the big idea, man, is really if you watch, there are only three kinds of marriage relationships. And everybody gets to decide which one you're in. There's three kinds. If you have somebody that is, if you have two people, everybody has to decide whether they're going to be a giver or a taker in the relationship. And what you got is if you have two people that are both takers, so they're not loving, they're selfish. Then what you end up with is a relationship that feels like a battle because it's always your will versus my will. If you have, and this is doubly true when the husband is the taker and the wife is the giver. If you have a relationship where one person is a giver and the other person is a taker, honestly, the relationship feels like abuse. It's like, man, I'm always giving up what I want, and you're always taking what you want. I just feel used and abused. It feels like abuse. But something really special happens when you have two people that walk into the relationship, and they both are going, you know what? I'm here to love, serve, and bless. when you have two people that are both givers and they walk into the relationship going, I'm here to serve and love you. It doesn't feel like a battle. It doesn't feel like abuse. It feels like a blessing. What a husband is called by God to be is not just the head of his home. Listen, the loving head of his home. So how did Jesus exercise his headship of the church? He gave himself up for her. All right. So here's the big idea is we need to walk in, not exercise. I'm going to get to this more in a second, not exercising our headship to get what we want. We're exercising our headship and our leadership of the family to be a blessing to the family because we we love them. So I'll just say a few quick, quick little practical things. One is, again, this is from the book of 1 Peter It's a super un-PC verse 1 Peter 3 says that what husbands should do Is they should honor their wives as the weaker vessel And when it says weaker vessel It's not saying that women are less valuable than men Literally, man, it's literally just saying If you and your wife get into an arm wrestling match You're probably going to win You should win If you don't win, this is not the church for you So this is not it. We need to stage an intervention. And what it's saying is, hey, man, what God gave you that strength, physical, emotional, spiritual strength to do is to honor, bless, and protect her. So this may sound like 1950s. In fact, when I say this, what somebody may say is, man, Josh, I'm disappointed. You're taking us back 70 years to the 1950s. My response to that is, well, then I failed because I'm not trying to take us back 70 years to the 1950s. I'm trying to take us back thousands of years to Genesis 2. So like this is why like we do things. And I want to say I want the men of Lake Point to be like this. We open doors for women. We say, yes, ma'am. There's a reason that our culture, when a woman used to walk into the room, men would stand up or they would take off their hat. There's language that men might use around other men. They don't use around women. Well, why? Because we're supposed to use our strength to honor women as a weaker vessel. There's little things like we do at home. Like I want to do this at home. Like, man, first of all, I am super into Jana. I got eyes for one person and one person only. And I hope – I think I shower you with affection verbally. Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. Yes. All the things. There's little things like at home, like, man, we got a rule at dinner. Nobody starts eating until mom sits down. When mom sits down, then the kids can start eating. Don't start eating until mom sits. Why? because I'm trying to use my headship of the home to show the family we love and we honor mom. She's the first lady of the home. So there's things like this. I would say to husbands what 1 Peter 3 again says is it says to live with your wives in an understanding way. And so what that means is that husbands – there's a lot of husbands, they got a GED in their wife, and they need to develop a Ph.D. in their wife. So it's like I'm supposed to become a student of who my wife is so that then I can like – and what I've learned is that in order to love you well, one, yes, I provide. Yeah, I protect, all those things. But dude, it's like there's things that I figured out that you need to – your heart needs to hear. Like I figured out Janice Hart needs to hear, you are an amazing mom. Or, man, thank you for working so hard for our family. Because I've got the elders at Lake Point, people who work with me, who they can see how hard I work, and they honor me for it. Well, a lot of your – they're secret sacrifices, quiet crucifixions. Like husbands, your wife doesn't have anybody except you, especially if she doesn't work outside the house. So it's like you got to be the one that showers that on her or things like I'm so glad I married you. But just like studying your wife to figure out how can I shower the blessing on her that she needs instead of just the thing that comes naturally out of me. Yeah, I would just I'm going to add this here so I don't under the helper. But the same is true for wives. Like you need to be a student of your husband and you need to see how does he in particular need help? Like that's where both of us is a very reciprocal thing. Like we're both trying to just serve one another and be the spouse that God's created us to be for each other. That's right. All right, Jana. Let's talk about the one that's considerably maybe less popular. Talk about what wives need to hear about. What does it mean to be a helper? Helper. Yeah. Okay. So I think first we need to go all the way back to Genesis 2, 18. And it says, then the Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone. I will make a helper fit for him. And then I also want to read 1 Corinthians 11, 9. It says, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. So, I mean, it's very clear here. Like a woman is her husband's helper. And I know that you've probably been told many times before that God is preparing a man for you. But the reality is, is it's really God is preparing you for a man. So you need to let that sink in. So I love reading Christian biographies. Just super fun for me. So I'm currently reading one about Susanna Spurgeon. We're having fun. And I'm reading that, like, little sections of it to Jana before we go to bed at night. It's so fun. I was reading it, and I just kept sending him quotes from it. And he's like, let me just start reading that to you. We're doing this thing right now where it's like right before bed. I'll just be like, hey, let me read a couple pages. It's super encouraging. It's so encouraging. I mean, just getting to read about a godly marriage and just seeing how they work together for the kingdom. I love it. It's beautiful. But one of the quotes in it that was so good, and I think you ladies need to hear this. It says, it's not simply that Charles needed a wife. He needed a very specific wife. He needed Susie. And so I want you to know the same thing is true for you and your husband. Your husband, he needed a very specific wife. He needed you. And so maybe you need to write that down as just a little reminder. Like you are the wife. You are the suitable helper fit for your husband. So just kind of telling a story from my own life. So before Josh and I met, I was just radically saved in college. And God, I started interning at the church I was part of. And God ended up calling me into ministry. I just knew that I was going to be doing vocational ministry with the rest of my life. And so for years, like, I just kind of, I don't know. I just, I thought about, okay, my ministry, like my specific ministry and what I was going to be doing. But then I found this in an old book that I had been reading. I think this is the first year of our marriage, and I pulled it out this week, and I had written a note in the cover of it. It was on marriage. And my note to myself was that God called and put a passion in my heart before I met Josh because he was preparing me to be Josh's wife. So, like, that calling, it wasn't just a Jana-specific calling. It was because I was to be a suitable helper to my husband. So just to tell you that, just to remind you, don't let our culture or your feelings dictate how you feel about the word helper. It's a beautiful word, and I think we need to embrace it more and own it. Because, like, ask yourself, who else in Scripture is called helper? And there's so many examples, so I'm just going to give you two scriptures. So Psalm 3320 says, our soul waits for the Lord. He is our help and our shield. So God is our help. He's our helper. And then John, I love this. John 14, 26. But the helper, the Holy Spirit will teach you all things. So we get the Holy Spirit as our helper and he guides us and leads us and directs us. So a helper is one who supplies strength in the area that is lacking the help. So you get to supply strength to the areas where your husband is lacking. And that is such a beautiful picture. And so if God describes himself as our helper, I think we can really get behind that because that's part of God's character. He is our help. Eve was someone who would provide valuable and vital strength to Adam. So don't diminish your role as a helper or the role of women in general. Just think of it this way. You were meant to be a gift to your husband and you're filling up what was lacking. And then just like some like just practical things on just ways to think about being a helper. You got to remember, you got to be a student of your husband. How does he need help? Because different husbands are going to need help in different ways. So go to Proverbs 31. That's going to give you a lot of ideas right there. She helped her husband in many different ways. But I think looking at so many of the questions, I think that we can get afraid to ask our husband what he needs. And I think just embrace it. Like I ask you a lot. You ask me a lot. A lot. How can I help you today? Yeah, how can I help you today? A lot. Or if I know it's an extra busy day, what can I take off your plate? Is there something I can do instead of you? What would be a blessing to you? So he's going to help you as, you know, you might feel like a little, I don't know, it might feel clunky at first, like not really knowing what to do. So just ask the question and he can give you some insight to that. For me personally, I just, I try to efficiently manage our homes so Josh doesn't have to think about it. Whenever he's home, I want him to feel like he has a haven to come home to and he doesn't have to think about anything about the house. I also want to make sure that our life is not overly chaotic. There's a lot to juggle, a lot going on. So, you know, I'll be asking myself things, what needs to change? What do we need to pull back from in this season? Or what's okay to add in this season? And just, you know, figuring that out to make sure that our family is not saying too much to too many things outside of our home. Um, I, having a meal prepared for the family, that's important for you to be able to come home and be fed. And then, you know, it's important. It's important. Um, and I, you know, I have a friend, so, you know, she works full time too. And, um, so one of the things that she said that she does is she batch cooks on the weekend and then that way, I mean, they, they heat it up through the week. Um, but I think that's a great way that she is like serving her family and, you know, just taking care of her home. So I love that, that idea. Um, make sure he has clean clothes. Um, I have a funny story on that one. Okay. All right. So there, someone had, had mentioned to me one time she was feeling just like so guilty because her husband didn't have any clean clothes. and um he'd been i can't wait i have no idea what's going on i don't know why i'm sharing this um but he's been having to turn his underwear inside out oh my gosh and it's like you know it's oh my gosh i did not know that was coming okay go ahead so just just do the laundry You don't need to keep feeling guilt, even if it's just a little bit bothering me. Oh, my gosh. Throw it in there. But clean clothes are important. So let me interject something real quick. So what we're talking about, and tell me if this is a good way to say it or any color you'd add to this. What we're talking about is, like you started off, you know, talking about, it's that verse from 1 Corinthians. that man was not created for woman, woman was created for man. And there are some things that are very politically incorrect, but they're biblically correct, and his commands are not burdensome. And so what the Bible is doing for us is it's showing us, hey, Adam was not created for Eve. Eve was created to help Adam. And so what you have in the Bible is the biblical sort of pattern is that a husband is primarily – he is oriented towards his calling and the marketplace. And then a wife is oriented towards the husband. I'm going to say that one more time because it's very, very politically incorrect, but it's biblically correct. What you have is the husband is oriented towards his calling and the marketplace, and then a wife is oriented towards the husband in a way that the husband is not oriented towards the wife. That makes sense. You can't just interchange them. So what you've got here is what you're going to notice is that wife is the helper. Every wife is going to end up being a husband's either his launch pad or his lid. But very frankly, I'll just shoot really straight. I think back to when I was in Bible college getting ready for ministry. There were guys that were way more talented than me, and that's not false humility. They were legitimately more talented than me. There were guys that were smarter than me. There were guys who, because of their relational networks and maybe who their dads were, they had access to way more, way more opportunities than I did. And I hope this doesn't sound weird, but like honestly, like I've gone farther than those guys did. Why? Because I married a launch pad. I did not marry a lid. And I've gone way farther in my calling that God's placed in my life because you have embraced your role to be like, you know what? I'm Josh's helper, and you've helped me go way further, way faster. How does that feel? Does that feel right? Yeah. Okay. Good, good, good. Praise the Lord. I'm glad. I'm glad it's been that. Yeah. And I think it's just like that's where like whatever your husband's unique calling and job is, like how can you come alongside of him? Because, I mean, we have friends that they own a business. And so my friend, what she does is she'll write notes to their clients or she'll check on their employees or, you know, she just whatever way her husband needs help in managing the business, she comes alongside of and helps them. So you just have to find what is what your husband needs. Can I get let me give some examples and also move on. OK, so I'm going to give some examples in our marriage so that people, when they hear it, they can be like, oh, that's what it looks like. Yeah. So, for instance, Jana asked to pray with me before almost every sermon. Now, we've got that. I've shown that picture a million times. Now, sometimes you're going to be like, can I pray for you? I'd be like, please pray for me as I walk out the door because I'm running behind. But she has to pray. Every single week, the first thing I hear when I walk off the stage preaching into the, you know, to head out to the lobby is I open the door and Jana goes, that was amazing. I don't know how you do what you do. So, you know, you're an encourager. For all of our Godfather fans, Jana didn't know what this word was. Jana's my two siglieri. It's like legitimately, Jana and I take a walk every single night. That it's warm enough. Kids go down. It was 1.6 miles. We take a walk. And if I'm making big decisions, I trust that God gave me my helper for a reason. And so I'll process big decisions with Jana, like that kind of thing. Now, let me just say this to husbands. Some guys may be listening like, hey, I don't know business or I'm an accountant or I'm a CPA or whatever. And you're going like, well, my job is different than yours. I can see how Jana can do a podcast with you and she can help you with that or she can pray with people in the lobby. That's how she helps you. And you're going, my job is different than yours. Here's what I would say. Figure it out, bro. I really mean this. Like, figure it out. That's what men do is they get in there and they stand on their own two feet and they use their heads and they figure it out. So what every loving head needs to do is to figure out how to position his wife in a way that she can help him. Yeah. Anything else you would say there? I think that you need to expect like you helping to look different in different seasons of your life and stages of your life They like I just think that women have probably a few more stages and seasons of life in their own life than a man does. It's kind of like usually, you know, men do have like the season before, you know, they're married and all that. But usually it's like they get a job and they're going to work that job and it's going to be a season. season. But, you know, women like and, you know, there's some similarities in that. But like, you know, you get married like it's you're maybe you're not married and then you have the season of maybe you're working a full time job and then you move on to your season of being married and then you have children and then you have little children who need a lot of your time. They need a lot of your attention. And sometimes the best use of your time is to to be at home more and you need need to be at home, like raising up young children. And like in our life, it's like looked very, very different in different seasons because like whenever we first got married, Josh, you know, Josh had a student ministry job, but I was like, even though I wasn't on staff, I was like working right alongside of him, helping with the girls in that ministry and helping with the female leaders and all of that. And then we were church planting after that. So in that season, I was doing a whole lot of hospitality during that season. We were having people over all the time. And then there was like no one wanted the role as kids minister. So I stepped into the role as kids minister. This is all before we had kids. And then for the sake of our family, it was time for me to step out of that. And Josh helped lead me out of that season because that was not what was best for our family. And then it's just like you'll see it here. And I know people have noticed because they've asked me about different things. But I am not always doing the same thing in every season because sometimes I am more needed at home. Josh needs more help in a different way. And so I'm just adjusting my life to what is best for our family in that season. So just know there are seasons to life. And, you know, it's going to look different when we're empty nesters and what I'll be doing and how I'll be helping him in those ways, too. So just know, don't expect every season to look the same. Let's answer one question a lot of women have, and then we're going to move. So, you know, the biblical pattern is that a husband's primary orientation is towards the marketplace to fulfill his calling, his career, and provide for his family. And then it just is, man. And this is the pattern throughout the scriptures is that a wife's primary orientation is towards the home. So I'm going to say it one more time. Biblical pattern. Husband's primary orientation is towards career calling marketplace. Wife's primary orientation is towards the home. So, Jana Howerton, are you saying that it's wrong for a woman to work outside the home? Nope. I'm not saying that. So, I mean, and we have scripture to go to. So you go to Proverbs 31. It's a great chapter. If that's new to you, go read through it. Can I read it? You're going to read the whole thing? I've got a couple of verses. Okay, yeah, yeah. Do you have those verses in front of you? I thought I did, and I did not. I got them. So this is a great point you're making, is that the wife of noble character in Proverbs 31, she spends some time in the marketplace. She does. Now, her primary orientation is towards the home, so she dabbles in the marketplace only to the degree that it can help her at home. Absolutely. So this is kind of what you get. I'm going to read it. It's right here. She considers a field and buys it. Out of her earnings, she plants a vineyard. She sets about her work vigorously. Her arms are strong for a task. She sees that her trading is profitable and her hand, her lamp does not go out at night. And there's more. But what you're seeing is that even this wife of a noble character, there are some times when she dips out into the marketplace, but still for the purpose of helping and blessing the home. That's right. Yeah. I mean, you also see she makes garments and she sells them. So she is industrious. She is, I mean, I want to be her. I want to be her. So it seems like there's just nothing that she can't do. But the important thing, you said it already, is that everything she's doing, it's pointing back to her family. It's all for her people, and it's a blessing to them. And we know it's a blessing because it says that her children rise up and call her blessed. So we know this is not taking away from her role at home. She's very present there. And so, you know, just to the ladies, because I know that there are so many ladies, they are working full time, and they wish that they were home. But they are doing it for the purpose of being the helper that they need to be. And so I think that there is a blessing. Yeah, a husband needs help providing for his family. And she's helping. And she's helping. She's making a sacrifice. She's doing her job. That's right. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. Okay, let me talk real quick about what it means for a husband to be the head of the home, and then we're going to rapid fire some of these questions. Is that good? Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. So let me say a few things here. Again, it's going to take a pair of scissors to get this out of the Bible. So you can complain about it all you want, but it is simply in the Bible that a husband is the head of the wife, like it says, as Christ is the head of the church. And you even get these passages like it says that wives submit to your husbands in everything. And so the Bible is setting up this pattern all the way from Genesis. So you see this. Adam is put in the garden to work it and to keep it. And then Eve is created as a helper to help him with his thing. So a couple things for a husband to understand. Number one, first of all, let me just say this. If you're the type of dude that is super selfish, you are not loving to your wife, she does not feel blessed by you, and then you're ticked at her because she's not respecting you and coming under your headship, Let me just say, if you're having to get in the Bible and beat her over the head with verses about you being ahead, you already lost, man. Like, let me just say this. You already lost. So you can't start there. Like, you got to love – you know, you got to establish your leadership through the love that you shower on her. Now, what I would say is, man, what both spouses need to do is that you need to focus on obeying your verses. so wives need to focus on obeying their verses husbands need to focus on obeying their verses when husbands get into the business of trying to make wife obey her verses and wives get into the habit of trying to make husband obey his verses and they're ignoring their own verses you lost yeah it's i mean stop seeing the speck in somebody else's eye when you got a log in your you know yes and there's so much of that so it's like yeah honestly i think there's i have too much in me that I'm noticing and needing to deal with and bring to the Lord and repent of than to like constantly keep an eye on where you're feeling. So just like focus on what the Lord needs to do in you and how you need to act and obey. That's it. So number one, you know, number one rule of leadership is just, hey, it's follow me. The Apostle Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. So number one, it's just you're the lead repenter. You're the lead lover. You're the lead Christ follower in a home. I will say this. What you're going to notice is that something – women feel safe, wives feel safe when they see a husband who is submitted to Jesus and worships Jesus. Here's the reason for that is you're stronger than her. So she instinctively knows she can't make you do anything. But when she sees a husband that bends his knee to Jesus and worships Jesus, something in her heart goes, I'm not stronger than him, but Jesus is. And Jesus loves me, and so I'm really safe with him. So that's number one is you got to be that guy. Number two is notice in Ephesians 5, this is really important. It says the husband is the head of the wife. It does not say the husband should be the head of the wife. So here's the deal, man. The question is not whether you are going to be the head of your family. The question is, what kind of head are you going to be? Are you going to abdicate your leadership and then let either the children or the emotions of your wife or the council of the world step into that place? Are you going to be a good head of your home, a bad head of your home, an absent head of your home? So you are. Whether you know it or not, you are already setting the direction of your home either via your godly leadership or through your ungodly passivity. One of those two things is going to happen. Number three, I'm just going to – younger guys need to get this. Again, a little un-PC. When we used to do marriage counseling, what I would tell all the younger guys is every young man walks into marriage a little scared of his wife's emotions. And if a young man does not conquer the fear of his wife's emotions, then the emotions of his wife, not his godly leadership, will dominate the home. So I'll just – we're going to get real vulnerable here. I think that's good. Like a few years into marriage, Jana alluded to this. Jana was a kids minister at the church that we were planting. And honestly, she was crushing, like doing an absolutely incredible job. and a little bit of your identity kind of got caught up in like sure how successful this thing that i'm leading was going but honestly like i watched and you were working so hard outside of some of your gift set you know you were that was also we were struggling with infertility stuff and you started kind of downward spiraling it's a pretty pretty rough season of i would say depression. And I had very gently for months kind of been like, man, babe, I'm not sure that it's best for you to be in this kids ministry role. And you were very adamant that you wanted to continue in it. And I got to this spot where I was looking at it. And honestly, I'm a young man, you know, relatively new husband. And I realized like, oh, oh, shoot, because this is hurting my wife and it's hurting my family. And so honestly, like it was one of those moments where I just had to pull rank. And what kept me from doing it is I was scared of, man, Jana's going to blow up. It's going to be hell at home. And, you know, to be very honest, there was a little season where it was, it was hard. Yeah. We had to work through that. We did. Yeah, we did. But honestly, I think that did two things. One, it established my leadership of our family. And in that same kind of arena is like it forced me as a younger man to get over being dominated by fear of my wife's emotions so that I could just act on based on what was best for our family instead of the emotions of my wife. And then the other bigger thing is it led to blessing in your life and blessing in our family. Oh yeah. It was, I mean, it was the right decision. It was the best decision. Um, and it, you know, like I had to come to terms with what was going on with me and just, you know, finding identity and ministry. And, you know, so I had a really, God had to really sanctify me through that, but Josh did the right and hard thing. And it was the best thing for our family and falling in, in his leadership. And that was the best thing we could have done. I'll just say it is not fun firing your wife. It is not fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not fun to be fired either. No, that's right. That's right. Had nothing to do with ability. No, no, it was the right call. It was the right call and it was good. That's right. Let me just say a couple other things real quick here and then let's, let's keep moving. The big thing here for men is you need to use your you use your authority to bless your family you are the loving head of your home you are not the selfish head of your home so there's only been a few times in our marriage where I've like pulled rank it's fairly rare yeah and it is I I think looking back every single time all of our family would go man even if it was hard in the moment he was doing what was best for us. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's where the, like some fear comes in is I think, um, maybe people who are new, like near to the idea of submission or don't totally understand it. They feel like it's like, well, he's just going to tell me what to do all day, every day. And, you know, like, but I think us talking about what that looks like in our life would be helpful. So like the times, yeah, the times where I've like essentially pulled rank in our family. It's been moments where it's like, like Janice, your problem is Jana is high responsibility. She will work herself to death into honestly a bad emotional place. And usually when I got to pull rank, it's like, Hey babe, no, you can't keep doing that. We need to do something to make your life easier. So it'll be like, you know, we fought forever about like, um, you know, We've got three kids, big church, trying to do life. Janice helped me with ministry. And I was like, man, it would be good if maybe once a month we got a housekeeper to come by and help with a home. And Janice was like, I don't need somebody helping me. I think she felt maybe like I was saying you couldn't do your job. Like I'm bad at my job. Yeah. And eventually I was like, babe, I'm really sorry. We are going to do this. And I need the help. And now I'm a little nervous if Janice had to choose between me and the housekeepers. I'm nervous. You don't need to be, but I am super, super thankful for the help. That's right. Yes. Or another example would be homeschooling. Yes. Is we homeschooled, I think, one year too long. Maybe two. Yeah. Maybe two. Yeah. And we're, by the way, we're committed, like now our kids are in a Christian classical education. So we're all in on Christian education. Yes. But it was like three kids, husband or Hudson was detoxing. You know, there were some things going on there. and you know jana didn't want to give that up i'd be like hey babe we're doing this again identity issue here you know they have to like oh what does that say can i not handle this but i didn't have a single day off because i mean think about it we have church saturday and sunday so it's homeschooling through the week and then here there's just a lot and um and it it was It's a great move for us to move from now. I just I homeschool three days a week instead of all five. And it's a blessing. Dude, last thing I'll say here, and then we're going to rapid fire some of these questions because so many people asked them. Is men. Here's what it is. Because honestly, a lot of wives, they're like, I wish my husband was a spiritual leader. And they think it's like I'm like sitting down and doing a big family devotion. And we're singing hymns every day. It's honestly not like that. It's like what it is is I'm just I'm following Jesus. We're talking about Jesus at the dinner table and all this stuff. The big idea is lead with lets. So you be the one that's, hey, let's go to church. You be the one that's, hey, let's sit down for dinner. Hey, you be the one that's, let's tithe. Hey, let's do the Bible story before bed. All you got to do is just sort of lead with lets, and it starts taking care of itself. And then as he does that, that's when you respect. That's when you encourage and you build that up. I think sometimes it's like your husband will start leading in these ways and you want to start interjecting or talking over him or adding and just see this as a like, hey, he is leading our family. And it's just a time for you just to sit there and you, I don't know, you just do what you need to do to encourage and build up and not try to interrupt or get in that way. Yeah. Wives should not be surprised when they're when leaders start leading and husbands should not be surprised when helpers start helping. That's their job. Yeah. OK. People asked a whole bunch of questions we want to get to. You want to start rapid fire in some of these? Yeah. Let's do it. So why don't you take the first one? You can call for whichever one you want. Well, hey, Free Nation, let me share something that we are very excited about. We believe that an investment in your marriage is one of the most significant things in your life. And so we want to give you tools, real, practical, biblical wisdom you can actually use because strong families don't drift into health. They are built with courage and obedience. And so what we've done is we've compiled a series of resources that you can use to build and strengthen your marriage no matter where you are in your season. Whether you are single or maybe you are going to get married soon or maybe you're engaged or perhaps even been married for a long time, these are for you. So to get these resources, text the word marriage to two zero four one one. You will find resources for those of you who are so single previous podcast recordings of Josh and Jenna answering questions about sex. You will find our love life sermon series sermons. You will find content on parenting and so much more. Go check it out. Now, back to the podcast. You can whichever one you want to throw up there. um okay so this one was oh what if we have different dreams and plans long term but deeply love each other so okay so this sounds like someone who's dating oh and just to start off like as we're getting this like we don't know each person individually and so this is why you need to be in a rooted group or a life group you need people in your life who are speaking wisdom into your life. They know all of the intricacies of your life. They know what's going on. They know the deeper level of the question that you're asking. And so we're speaking to generalities, whereas if we knew you, there might be some different things we would say to you. That's right. So I just want to throw that out there. So we're just speaking generally. Did you want to? Okay. so um i would say okay sounds like you're dating and um i would say that if you know long term you have different dreams and goals and plans in life then i think that either you need a change and i mean if you're going to marry him you're going to need a change and come out after like the goals in his life or it might be time for you to kind of to part ways because that does To me, I can just see down the way there's going to be some problems here. I don't know. What would you say? Yeah, 100% agree. Again, husband, head, wife, helper. Adam is oriented towards his calling. Eve is oriented towards Adam. So listen, I know this is tough. I can't speak to every sort of scenario that's out there. But in general, what happens is a husband gets a calling on his life. He moves towards that calling. Then the wife orients herself towards helping the husband towards his calling. So like here's what is not healthy is two people walk into a marriage, and instead of becoming one, they want to stay two. So what's not is he's got his calling in his career, and I've got my calling in my career, and I'm going this way, and he's going that way, and we're just going to try to figure it out. No. No, that's not what's supposed to happen. You're supposed to come under his leadership and in his direction. So you need to figure out now, if this person's dating, you need to figure out now, do you want to submit your career, your calling, all those things? Now, that doesn't mean that women have no calling on their life or spiritual gifts. We're talking in zoomed out generalities. You need to figure out, do you want to bring your life under the direction of his life? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I would just say that, you know, it's like because you're not going to want you don't want to focus on the me. It's the we. So if you can't do that, then, yeah, you're going to maybe need to. That's right. To move on. Yeah. Last thing I'll say here. Single guys need to get this single guys. You need to get clarity on what the calling is that you're moving towards, because if you don't do that, she doesn't know what she's joining and submitting to. So it's like you need to get clarity on that. And by the way, that's why women are generally attracted to men who are going somewhere and have a vision for their life because of how women are wired to become helpers for their husbands. Yeah, that's right. All right, let's do the next one. You can toss one up there that I put in there. Okay, here we go. Yeah, this will be fun. This is a very common question. Yeah. Let me find where I'm at here. Yep. Okay. The question that was submitted, is it okay to have friends of the opposite sex? What if you don't agree on this subject? Now, let me say two things. Jana's very adamant. No, no, no. Let me say a few things here. One, I would say it depends what they mean by friends. Sure. Like, man, we've got couples that we're friends with. Right. And if somebody said, oh, Josh, you know, are you friends with Brooke? I'd be like, oh, yeah. We totally we love the Arazos. Yes. So if by friends you mean like acquaintances that you as a as a family like. Well, yeah. OK. But by what people typically mean by friends. No. As far as like intimacy, emotional intimacy, sharing parts of your life with that person. No. The reason I say this is in your wedding vows, what you said is forsaking all others. That's what you said. And then the New Testament says that what a godly man is is he is a one-woman man. So if somebody looks at my life and they go, man, how many women does Josh have an intimate relationship with? The answer is one. One. It's that girl right there. So the deal is God designed men and women so that emotional intimacy, it naturally trends towards physical intimacy in general. It's like I'll shoot you super straight. When we got married, there were girls when I was in college that I was friends with and good friends with. Nothing wrong with that at all. Then we got married, and some of those girls that were still single didn't understand, like, oh, things just change now. Josh is now married. And so, like, you know, I'm trying to obscure details. I'm just going to say the name. But it was like, you know, girls that I had been friends with were still like DMing and messaging on back then. Facebook was like the platform. And honestly, I just had to have a very awkward deal with some of those girls like, hey, I'm married now. Our relationship is not the same. And so, hey, I'm not going to be having friendships with women anymore. Right. And so, hey, if you wouldn't mind, feel free to reach out to me and Jana as a couple. If you want to message both of us, that's totally fine, whatever. But please don't do that to me personally. And, dude, I will say this, too. I respect what is generally known as like the Billy Graham rule. And, dude, people don't like this. Billy Graham had that rule. And I'm not saying that everybody needs to do this. I'm saying this is what I do. Um, Billy Graham had that rule that he was never alone with a woman that was not his wife, not in a car, not, not nothing. Um, I have that rule in my life. I, I, like, I don't get in a car. I've, you know, my assistant is a few decades older than me and we love her with all of our heart. Um, there is, I don't think anyone anywhere would ever think anything. I do not, even to drive less than one mile from here to discount tire, I do not get alone in a car with my assistant that is a few decades older than me. And feminists online, they'll hear that and they'll be like, well, we don't like that. That limits opportunities for women that are around you, and we don't like that. And here's my response to that is I don't care. You know who does like it? Jana. I do. Jana. Jana likes it. And Jana's who matters. So what I would say is, no, when you got married to somebody, you made a decision that like you're drawing a circle so small that only you and your wife are inside of it and nobody else gets inside of that circle. That's right. Anything you'd add there? Well, just to make it clear, like because you were coming from your perspective, but that should be the same thing is true for a woman. Like I'm going to have those same exact rules. That's right. So, yeah. All right. Next one. Take it away. All right. Okay, if someone is godly, how do you know that it's the person for you from God to do life together? And so, like, I don't know. The way I would answer this, one, I think that's great. You're seeing godliness in this person. They love the Lord. That's a really good thing. But I just want to, you're like, whenever I met you and like fell in love with you, it's just like our lives were in alignment with one another. We were going the same direction. We were running after Jesus and our plans, our future looked so similar. So it was like everything aligned with that. But there was desire there. Like, I don't know where I don't know how that person feels. But if you're not, you're like, oh, I should like this person, but I'm not really feeling it. I wouldn't rush into something like that personally, because you're going to have that desire. You're going to when you love somebody and you don't want to spend your life apart from them, you're going to know it. That's right. That's the first Corinthians verse. It is better to marry than to burn with passion And the implication is you probably going to be burning with passion And that when you know that honestly that one healthy thing The only other thing I'd say here is, is for people who are dating, this is really important, man. So, so important. She said, if somebody is godly, I just want to highlight that. If somebody is single, don't date potential date patterns. Yeah. So this is a really important, especially women men can do it too but especially women is women will look at a guy that's a little bit of a mess and be like oh but i see what he could become and they'll think about potential yeah don't date potential date patterns okay oh he's got potential yeah but he's also got a whole bunch of credit card debt and you're marrying that too and he has some patterns that created the credit card debt or, oh man, he's got potential, but he's also got a porn addiction. And that's a pattern. Yeah. And you're going to be marrying that too. So the big idea is, this is really important. John Lovell, friend of mine, he was an army ranger. He's got a podcast called Warrior Poet Society. Lovell says that in army ranger training, what they say is you don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training. It's the same thing when somebody's dating. is do not think, oh, I'm going to marry them, and then they're going to become, they'll rise again. No, no, they're not. They're going to fall to the level of their habits. And I know what people say is, man, yeah, but it's so hard being single. And Jan, I've seen this over and over. The only thing harder than being single is wishing you were. Yeah, yeah. So there you go. All right, let's do the next one. Let's rapid fire these. Oh, okay. That's a big one. This is a big one. Tons of questions about in-laws. So the question I asked is, in-laws, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, how to have and handle boundaries. Okay, let's do a little theology and say a couple things real quick. So first of all, I ran across an article this week. Forbes magazine a few years ago, they did a study on what is the most common reason for divorce. The number one reason for divorce was, quote, lack of family support. so infidelity sexuality marriage all the things those were all lower than lack of family support so here's what here's what i'm driving at is people think oh man the reason that marriage gets really hard is probably money and sex and people like those are things people fight about yeah they are but actually what is worse is if your in-laws are acting like outlaws That's what that's showing. So let me just give us a theology of this, and then let me say something to the actual in-laws, maybe the older generation, and then let me give an encouragement to the younger generation. So what we have here is I'm quoting Jesus. Jesus quotes it in Matthew 19. This is all the way from Genesis. Jesus says, for this reason, a man shall leave. Leave his father and mother. And the King James says cleave to his wife. So the big idea is you can't leave. You can't cleave if you don't leave. So here's the deal is that, man, you will hear some well-meaning but naive Christian parents. What they'll say when their kids get married is they'll say, oh, we're so excited. We're adding a daughter to our family or we're adding a son to our family. And just very gently, let me say, dear sir or madam, that is not what's happening. You are not adding a son or a daughter to your family. Listen, your son or your daughter are leaving your family and they're starting their own family. So when our kids get married, we're not adding two sons and a daughter. Our two daughters and a son, they're leaving our family, starting their own family. And then we then become extended family. And let me just say this gently. At that point, it's their job to prioritize their immediate family over their extended family. OK, so here's where this happens, man, is let me give a word to the older generation where you're you have kids that are leaving. And then let me give a quick encouragement to the younger generation talking about in-laws. So to the older generation, what I would say is where this really becomes a pinch is, one, if you try to control them with money and stuff, like don't do that. Don't give gifts with strings attached. Anytime I've learned this as a pastor, my gosh, anytime somebody gives you a gift with strings attached, it's not generosity. It's greed or manipulation. And what some in-laws will try to do is they'll try to control their kids with like money and gifts that have strings attached. Hey, we shouldn't be doing that, man. Our job is to help and bless them. This really gets complicated around holidays and vacations. And so what I would say is, man, to the older generation, if this is you, what you need to understand is the relational law of push and pull. where if your energy towards them is to push, push, push, I'm trying to push you and get all up in and I have expectations and you're badgering them for, hey, why don't you come over? If your energy is to push into space that doesn't belong to you anymore, then they're forced to have energy that's pushing you away. But if you adopt a posture of, you know what, I'm releasing you. I'm not going to be pushy. I'm letting you do your thing. What you're going to notice is that their energy over time is usually going to flip to, oh, wait, we want you. We want time with you. So if you're pushing in, then their energy is going to be to push out because especially – I'm just going to say in general, women are territorial creatures, and they do not like when somebody is impeding into their territory. But if your posture is, you know what, I'm releasing, then their energy becomes, oh, let me pull you back in. You need to let them establish their own family traditions, their own holidays. Help them prioritize their immediate family over their extended family. That's what you raise them to do. That's a blessing. And here's the last thing I would say is sometimes – I learned this this year when I was discipling a younger couple. sometimes you're hoping they're going to come for a holiday or a vacation and and they say no and very frankly there's a difference between secrecy and privacy and they're dealing with some things that are private that they should not have to share with you like for instance if you're going hey we do we've done this family vacation every year for 20 years we expect you and your wife and your children to be there. But marriage is really, really hard for them right now. They might be dealing with something this private and you need to have the respect of their immediate to go. You know what? I love you, son. Let me give you your space. Now, let me just say to the younger generation is like you're starting your own immediate family. Their job is to let you leave and cleave. But listen, you have a command to honor your father and mother. That looks different when you're younger versus when you're old. When you're young, that means obedience. When you're old, that means, in part, giving them a place and a space in your life. And I would just say, man, to younger generations, the Bible says honor your father and mother is a commandment with a promise. It says when you do that, it says that it may go well with you in the land. And Janet and I have noticed this. You'll notice a lot of the happiest, most blessed people you'll ever meet. They're people who honor their parents and welcome their parents in their lives. So what I would say to the younger generation is watch out because unbeknownst to you, you are deciding how your children will give you a space in their life by how much space you give your parents in your life. You're setting an example. So watch out, man. Like honor your father and mother in those things. It's good. All right, Let's go to the next one. What you got? There ain't no way we can read that. Which one? I'm trying to think if I can remember. I can pull it up on my. Can you zoom it? There we go. We got zoomed. So it says, as a kid, you're told how wrong sex is. How do you just change those thoughts in your head once you get married? It's hard to enjoy something that you are conditioned to think is bad. And so I think, you know, honestly, I think this is like just an area where I think Satan tries to get a foothold. And it's just all about renewing your mind. Like, so just like we renew our mind in any other area, like you have to like renew your mind and remind you that God gives us sex and marriage as a gift and it's for pleasure. And it's so it's not wrong. It's not bad. But I think you're going to have to continually remind yourself of the truth of what God's word says and that it has been given to you as a gift. So is there anything you would add to that? Did you want to say something about – oh, there was that other question about, man, if you failed. Yeah, that's – it's a different question about how to talk to your kids. Why don't you go ahead and do that because they dovetail. So this one was how to talk to your teens about boundaries and dating when I didn't do the right thing when I dated. And I just want to let you know, like, hey, you are not being a hypocrite to talk to your kids about having boundaries. So I think the best thing you can do for your kids and what a blessing this is, is you just being honest with them. And you can, I mean, you wouldn't want to go into detail, but just about how that had negative impacts on your life before, you know, maybe you accepted Christ later. And so it's like this just sets them up to not make the same sinful decision at their age and protects their future marriage. And so what you're doing is you're giving them a gift and a blessing by just being honest with them. And there's no hypocrisy there. That's good, you know. Hey, Trinity, while we're on this, will you go to that one, how to help my husband heal from an affair? Let's go to that one while we're on this. Okay, so this is – honestly, tragically, this is a really common question. Yeah, yeah. How to help my husband heal from an affair that I had two years ago, there's still no trust. First of all, man, I love this. I love this precious woman's attitude. I know. Because notice that she's going, how can I? I even love this word. How can I help? Yes. There's repentance there. That's right. There's a desire to restore. There's a desire to, like, she's agreeing it was wrong. I want to help. I want to fix it. So, man, what you got here is, first of all, I would say to this woman, man, step fully into the reality of the forgiveness and the cleansing Jesus Christ has given you to the cross. David said, purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean. Wash me and I shall be whiter than snow. So man, I just want to say to this woman, the only scarlet letter that marks you is a big old scarlet F that says forgiven. That's what's written over your life. And that's the most true thing that's about you. Let me get real practical because can I just give everybody a heads up. Throughout your marriage, there will be varying degrees of ways that the other person sins against you. And one of the most important skills anybody learns in marriage is how to practice radical and quick forgiveness. Very frankly, when we sin, it's like we bring trash into the marriage. Forgiveness is how we take out the trash. That's good. And so for most couples, Honestly, man, the problem is not that they fell out of love. The problem is they fell out of repentance and forgiveness. That's usually what happens. So let me get really, really practical to tragically the hundreds of people that submitted questions about some level of infidelity. Okay. What I would say to this woman, and again, I'm just going to speak to you in a straightforward way. The way that men are wired, and these are not in order of priority. So let me say two things. When trust has been broken, the book of Proverbs generally teaches that trust should be slowly gained and quickly lost. So trust is lost in buckets, but it's gained in drops. So what happened when infidelity happens is, oh man, we just poured out the whole bucket. Now, from that point on, here's what happens. Here's how it gets restored. It's his job to draw the targets for how you can regain trust, and it's your job to hit the targets he draws. So here's how that works. This is what you do is you've got to have a conversation about, hey, I love you. I am so sorry. I'm in full repentance. I want to regain your trust. Will you tell me exactly what I need to do in order to regain your trust? There were tons of questions from women who tragically they, their wives, their husbands, you know, looking at pornography, same thing. You need to have a conversation. I've lost your trust. Tell me exactly what I need to do in order to regain your trust so that you draw a clear target so that the person who betrayed the trust can hit your target in order to regain the trust. So you do that and then listen. I'm just going to speak to this woman. If he says, let's say the infidelity was with somebody at work. If he says, you know, honestly, I need you to quit your job and get a new job, then you need to say, yes, sir. Yeah. If he says, you know what, if it would be okay with you, could we get an app where like all your text messages get sent to my phone? First of all, I don't know why any married couple anywhere would have any problem with that at all. Let me just keep saying that. The number of questions about people asking what appropriate levels of secrecy in marriage are is insane. There should be literally no secrets at all. But if he says that, then you should be going, absolutely. Honestly, if he says, you know what, I'm just going to be super raw here. If he says, man, honestly, I need you to give me with a high frequency what you gave that man that was not your husband. He's like, man, I need a really sexually available wife. then you need to say yes sir like but it's his job to draw the targets it's your job to hit the targets and you need to be the one that initiates the conversation to ask for what the targets are so here's what that means there's two things if a couple decides we're going to see if jesus can redeem and restore this marriage and listen to me he can yes he can he can yeah if you decide that and you guys move forward, there's two things that are not fair. For the person who committed the infidelity, it's not fair for you to expect just trust to be immediately, well, you forgave me, so you ought to trust me. No, no, hey man, not fair. You stepped outside of the marriage covenant and poured out the entire bucket of trust. He shouldn't trust you yet. You got to rebuild that. So that's not fair for you to expect all the trust to be there. But here's the other thing that's not fair. If he decides to stay in the marriage, what's not fair is for him to treat you according to your sin and keep you in the doghouse forever without giving you a chance to rebuild the trust. That's not fair either. So it's his job to draw the targets. It's your job to hit the targets. And then what you're going to notice over time is that that trust is regained and Jesus restores the marriage. Anything you'd add? I think I would add just you need – do not go – like do this alone. Like you need godly couples in your life who can encourage you and to help walk you through this. That's right. Not your wind-down Wednesday woke pagan swifty friends. Get some Bible-believing women that love Jesus and love his word. That's right. Okay, let's go to the next one. Rapid fire these. Should an engaged couple living together abstain from intimacy before marriage? No. I object to the question. Yeah. Yeah. I have just a question. So let me just say, so first of all, this person is asking a, they're just from a pure heart, they're asking a question. A lot of people don't know this. You shouldn't be living together before marriage. So here's the big idea is don't act like one when you're still two, and then don't act like two after you've become one. So that's the big idea. So will you, Trini, will you throw up, toss up that headline of that article real quick? So here's what I just want to point this out for people. So the Bible uses – it's a big weird word we don't use in our culture anymore. It uses the word fornication. Fornication is a big Bible word for sex before marriage. So you shouldn't be having sex before marriage. That's a sin. You also shouldn't be living together before marriage because the Bible says give no opportunity to the devil and make no occasion for the flesh. I'll be super honest. If you are a red-blooded American dude – you don't even got to be American. If you're a red-blooded guy and a red blood coursing through your veins girl, and you're going to get married, and you can live together and sleep in the same bed, you're going to want to do married people things. And let me just say, you're going to end up doing married people things. So you should not do that. So this is an article that said this. This was a big study. The Religious Marriage Paradox, Younger Marriage, Less Divorce. That's a whole different conversation. But inside of the article it said this. Surprisingly, religious 20-somethings who married directly without cohabiting appear to have the lowest divorce rates. Go to the next one. Increased cohabitation is both cause and consequence of the rise in the age at first marriage. But what most young adults don't know is that cohabiting before marriage, especially with somebody besides your future spouse, is also associated with, listen, an increased risk of divorce as a recent Stanford study shows. So here's the big idea. Of course, you should not be having sex before marriage. We do married people things with only somebody we are married to. But it's also extremely unwise for you to be cohabiting at all because here's a big idea. According to studies, you are not practicing for marriage. You are practicing for divorce. you're practicing before your marriage to step out to break the marriage covenant. So what's going to happen when you get in the marriage is you're going to be more likely to break the marriage covenant. So don't act like one when you're still two. So when you're still two and you're not married, we don't want one bodies together in sexual intimacy. We don't want one bank account. We don't want one living situation. We're still two people. But then when you get married, now we're one. once you're one, quit acting like two. So I hit this a little bit in the sermon. We need to have one body in frequent marital intimacy. We don't have separate callings and careers. We don't have separate bank accounts. We don't have separate bedrooms. We don't have separate friends and separate lives. No, no. Don't act like two once you become one. So don't sleep together before marriage. Don't live together before marriage. Alright, next one. Jenny, let's do one for you. We're going to do like two more and then we'll shut her down here. Can you do one of the ones that Jana had? I think we've used – Oh, we already did all of them? Yeah. All right. Let me do this one. Do the – yep. Okay. This is a toughie. What to do when lying, cheating husband is – this is really tough to even read. Lying, cheating husband is unrepentant and we have two kids together. All right, let me go back to something we said at the beginning of the pod. I always want to be very, very careful giving counsel because I'm just going to give you a heads up. Anytime you're talking about this kind of thing, a little axiom is the wisdom of Solomon with incorrect information results in fool's counsel. I can be as wise as Solomon, but if I don't have all the info, I'm going to give you bad counsel. So I'm just basing this off what I'm seeing here. So let me say a few things. Quick theology of divorce because this is we're asking what do we do now. The Bible says in the book of Malachi that God hates divorce in some translations. Let me just remind us what the Bible does not say is that God hates divorced people. That's really important. There are three things that in the Bible are very clear examples where God gives permission for somebody to divorce their spouse. One of them is death. The book of Romans says that – in Romans chapter 7 mentions that when somebody dies, the marriage covenant is dissolved. And I'll just say that real quick. Some people are like, well, that's obvious, Josh. Sometimes as a pastor, you'll notice that when people that loved each other very much and a spouse dies, they get to the spot a few years later where they might want to remarry, but they feel guilty. And let me just say, like, you should feel no guilt about that. Death dissolved the marriage covenant so that it's OK. Number two, Jesus says in Matthew 19, 19, 9, he says that adultery or sexual immorality is a legitimate cause where it is permissible for somebody to divorce. So that's this situation. The third one is in 1 Corinthians 7, and it talks about abandonment by an unbelieving spouse. So like two people get married, one of them becomes a Christian, and then the dude is like, I didn't want to be married to a Christian. You want to do Christian things. I'm out. He leaves. First Corinthians 7 says, hey, it's OK. You're free. Now, here's the here's the big idea. And then I would also add in the case of abuse, it is at least separation is often necessary. Legitimate cases of abuse, at least separation, is often necessary. Now, what I want to point out on this, so that's the theology of divorce. You're going to notice that Jesus says that Moses permitted a husband to offer his wife a certificate of divorce. It does not say that he commanded her to do so. So in a situation like this, I'll tell you what I would say to this person. If somebody has a cheating spouse that repents, what I would say is that divorce should be a last resort, not a first option. At least pray and try if the person is repentant. I would say to this woman, if somebody is in a situation where their spouse is repeatedly cheating on them, I'm talking about physical adultery, in particular physical adultery, repeatedly cheating on them, and they are unrepentant, I would say head to the hills. The person's been confronted, and that's a last resort. in the same way that like if I break my ankle at playing basketball, my first option isn't to cut off my foot. That's a last resort. But then if it gets infected, the amputation is the last resort. Why? To keep the rest of the body from dying. Man, in a situation like this, what you don't want to do, this is really tragic to say, is raise your children, your family, and your soul for the next few decades in a home where a man is destroying the whole quote-unquote body and family through unrepentant adultery. What I would gently say, if I'm understanding the situation correctly, is if that's the case, unrepentant, repeated adultery, not only are you permitted to divorce in that situation, it's probably very wise to do so prayerfully. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Jana, honestly, I think we need to shut her down. I hate ending on a Debbie Downer note. I know. But Jesus is awesome and your marriage is going to be great. It is. Jana, would you close just by praying for people who are listening? I would love to. Yeah. Father, thank you so much for who you are and how you love us and just how you can teach us to be more like Christ. And so I just pray for each one of these marriages or people who are listening that hope to one day be married. Father, I just pray that you'll just do a work in each of us. I pray that we will be people who are quick to see the log that's in our own eye before we see the specks that's in others' eyes and just turn in repentance. Father, I pray that you'll bring restoration to marriages, that you will restore and rebuild anything that needs to be rebuilt. Father, and I just pray that we will stand on your word, that we will love your word and be led by your word. And I just pray that we will give you all the glory for what you do in every marriage of every person who is just transformed by your grace. In Jesus name. Amen. you