Fred Warner on Underrated Purdy, His Toughest Opponent & Favorite AFC Contender + NBA Christmas Preview w/ PJ Carlesimo

Hey, we're still a listeners. You can find every episode on Apple podcast and Spotify. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Thy ticket, Lady Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks. Good sir. Here is my discover card. They accept discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it? With the times. With the times? You're playing the lute. Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. The Ryan Rosillo show presented by DraftKings. Loaded for you again today, a lot of NFL with Fred Warner, but he thought of the Seattle LA result, his Niners win, Phillip Rivers return. And also, he gives us a great answer on who do you tackle really hard that never complains, that loves it. He has a good answer for us on that one. PJ Carlysimo, we're talking hoops. How do you stop the thunder? Some of the things that we saw from the Spurs Thunder matchups that we can look forward to this next coming week. We go deep on a few different things on staggering players. And then my quest to define the difference in the truce, I guess the different truce of different generations of the NBA. We have a Chalamet update, so we didn't even get the live advice until like 15 minutes of screwing around. So a very, very big pod for you right in front of Christmas. It's the most wonderful time of the year and DraftKings is making it even better. Yep, it's SGP Xmas, baby. The season of extra. DraftKings sportsbook is handing out holiday cheer like Santa with a parley slip and you're going to want to get in on this from December 22nd through the 25th. DraftKings is giving you a brand new extra generous offer every single day. That's right. Four straight days of promos so you can slay your NBA and NFL parlays. You wake up, you check the app, boom, a fresh gift from DraftKings waiting for you. 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Tokens are single use and expire at the end of the final game each day when offered. Terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com slash promos. He's going to join us throughout the season as we told you so. Visit number two with Fred Warner from the San Francisco 49ers and also the host of Real Ones the League. Make sure you check out the episodes. The Dernal and James interview was awesome. The Alex Smith one just went up. So if you're a fan of just great interviews, you don't have to be if you're a fan of Fred, you're going to like it. But I really enjoyed him the last couple of weeks and digging through everything. So it's good to see you, man. How are you? Man, I'm great. You know, I'm great. That Monday night, the night is on top, baby. Billing great, man. Yeah. Yeah. You do the resume here. They're the 5C, but they're 11 and 4. You know, there's still a lot of things in play. Yeah. So they get the Monday night or against the Colts. I can't wait to ask you about Phillip Rivers. But first and foremost, let's start with your guys. Like, what did you see from the team and getting this done on the road? Yeah, man. I mean, it's always unique when you have to go on the road for these night games on the East Coast. Because when you play a night game here on the West Coast, it's a five o'clock start time, right? It's, it's, let me, when you're later in the season, that the time has changed. It's dark outside. So it's late, five o'clock start. You go on the East Coast, they start their their night games at 8pm. So it's like, holy smokes, you're sitting at the hotel all day long, just to get ready for this game. And you finally get on the bus at like 5pm to go to an 8pm game. So it's just a long day. So you always kind of wonder, like, are the guys really going to be firing from the jump? Or is it going to take them a little bit because they're a little, little groggy, maybe from a long day? But to see the way that our offense came out and was hitting on all cylinders. I mean, I think that was Brock Purdy's best game of his career thus far. Like, he's, he's had outstanding performances since he's been here with us. But that game showed just how, how poise is how he's able to dissect defenses, deliver the football on any point of the field, rolling out to his right, to his left, delivering the football, throwing like, finishing with six, not three. It was just unbelievable. And I think he was playing six, too. Like you, you see it on the, on the, on the broadcast, on from the TV, you see his nose is all red, man, because he's probably over there sneezing all game. But the guy's a complete baller, best in the game in my opinion, of course. And yeah, man, I mean, we just, we just deadly out there on, on offense and defensively, it was, it was good to see us take the ball away on special teams. My God, Jair Brown coming through with the, the brand one or punched, punched out, man. You know, we were, we were laughing about it in the locker room just now because I told him, I'm like, he told me, he's like, bro, I specifically remember you telling me elbow above the wrist, because if you want that, you want that right angle. So when you're going through, it's like, you've got that little pocket in there for that ball to come out. So I guess you remember a little something that, you know, well, Freddie told him, right? So he goes in there, he punches the ball out on kickoff. My boy D winners, man, just shout out to D winners, finally gets himself a pig and it's a pick six to the house, the ice, the game. Unbelievable. You know, we were going into the game where everybody's saying that our run defense wasn't any good. Their run game was the best in the league and we hold them to 20 carries for what's 50, 60 yards. Like it's unbelievable. So, yeah, old Phillip Rivers, man, was still out there hucking that thing, trying to just deliver that pill. It looks like he's over there, man, just got that food on the platter and just is hucking it out there, man, but he's still doing it. And it's super impressive because I don't think people understand what it takes to really step out there because this is this is violent a game as it gets. You see, obviously, what can happen in terms of guys getting hurt on any given place. So the fact that he came out of retirement after five years not doing it, it's still throwing tussed down, fired up, you know, they're showing them on the broadcast just just fiery, a fiery cat. You man, you can get behind that any day. So all in all, man, fantastic win for the Niners. A lot of great ball ahead of us. And I'm excited, man. It's a great time to be fan of the game. The Rivers thing. It's amazing that he could look like when you would see the shots of him in the sideline in his uniform and maybe it wasn't the best uniform for an older guy. I would just have these moments. I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe this guy that's out there. And then, you know, all you have to do is get knocked around a little bit and you're just a football player, you're in it and he's chirping. And, you know, then there'd be a throw where I'm like, all right, well, look, it's always kind of been this weird delivery. And then there'll be exactly there was one to the right where it was like, oh, are you going to get enough on that? And I'm like, all right, well, is that because he's 45 or is that because he just missed a throw like anybody else would? But I do wonder if there's a bigger thing on display here. Now, granted, his relationship with that coaching staff and knowing the offense, like this wasn't like they just said, hey, who's 45 that we can have playing games right now? As far as this is, there's there's at least we know when he's back there, he's going to understand exactly what we're going to do. And I'll forever, as we get to know each other, forever be fascinated, challenged, clueless definitive like any any way I could describe my feelings on quarterbacks, or I'm like, I think this guy's going to be good. And then he's terrible. And then a guy who I think is going to be terrible turns out to be terrific. But is there something that we're, we're realizing if Philip Rivers is coming into a game and at least being competitive, where the knowledge is so much more important than any of the physical stuff. And that there's there's just a development gap between what we ask of the NFL quarterback at the beginning of his career and what they're actually ready to handle every Sunday. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a super interesting topic that I know you've heard Tom Brady talk about it, right? He talks about guys not being as developed coming into the league because of the college game kind of changing. So they're unable to really dissect and read defenses as early on in their career. So then they have to learn that part of the game as they're transitioning to playing it at the highest level with all the speed and everything of that. That nature. I talked with Alex Smith about it on my podcast. He said that he thinks that this is the best the quarterback position has ever been in the entire NFL because he just feels like just the level of athlete that's it back there. Guys just throwing that throwing the pill around the field. And he feels like this is the best it's ever been in his opinion. Obviously, his opinion means more than my opinion, because I never played the position. But yeah, I think with Phillip, it does it shows crystal clear, especially Monday night where everybody's tuned in. It's a night game prime time. And you see him get up to the line of scrimmage and they're sending motions. All right, hey, hey, he's kind of just like kind of roaming around like just like just so like nonchalant about it. He just kind of like, um, hey, let's go. I'm like, okay, like, and there's so much time on the play clock because he's just like he's obviously that efficient early in the in the down to be able to just be like, okay, let's check to this boom, boom, boom. And I'm just going to hook it right here. Like in this little 10 yard pocket, and it's just going to be a first down completion, we're going to move the chains, we're going to continue the drive. And it's like, did he do something fantastic with his feet with his arm with any like, no, it was because he was able to read reading dissected defense to deliver the ball in a place that it needed to be delivered. And at the end of the day, you want to just get a as high percentage chance throws on any given drive to get yourself in position to score a touchdown, right? Or to just put points on the board. And so when you have a guy that can put you in that position to stay ahead of the sticks, because you see where the issues arise, especially in this game, it was when they get behind the sticks where you're you get a TFL or you get an incomplete pass, you're in second and 10, you're in third and 10, it's like, well, there's not a whole lot of plays in your playbook repertoire to say, hey, we're going to go get a first down on on third and 10 versus no, we're in third and four or less. So, I mean, the combination of them not unable to get the run game going now puts a lot of pressure in the deep there, their defense not being able to start stop our offense, puts a lot of pressure on field to be exactly right on every single play that he's out there, where he has to check it correctly, he has to deliver the throw perfectly. And it all works in unison. But if you don't have a guy at that position, who understands what's going on, you're going to be constantly like, oh, let's hope that he makes a play with his legs. So let's hope that it just works out instead of actually like meticulously working your way down the field, where our defense feels like, Lee, we can't do anything right. This dude just knows exactly what we're doing. It's like, it's just deflating for our defense when you have a guy like that who knows what you're doing, because it's like, oh, should we do we need to start doing something different? Because he knows what we're doing. So how different is it? How different is it? Like when you couple series and you're just with the defense, you're like, this guy's lost. This guy, you're talking about a quarterback? Yeah, I'm sure there's younger quarterbacks. Oh, yeah. How different is that? Yeah, no, I've had experiences, you know, we went into what was it 2023? It was after our bi-week, we had just lost three straights. So our backs are against the wall, we're going coming out of the bi, we got to go on the road against a hot Jacksonville Jaguars team who had won a ton of games up to that point. And, you know, Trevor Lawrence, we had seen on tape where, you know, they, he wanted it to look a certain like for a quarterback, you're going to either see too high, you're going to see single high, you're going to be like, okay, I know where the ball is supposed to go in my progression based off the safeties and what, and what the DBs are presenting me, right? So we're like, okay, if we can money the picture up for them, pre snap, and then play something else, let's see how that affects them. And we went into the game and we're like, all right, we're going to start single high, and then we're going to switch to too high post-snapping. You just saw him go from his first read. Oh, it's not there. Okay, boom. Let me look at the rush. He's obviously progressed a ton since then is much, much more developed in being able to read disguises and understanding understanding understanding scheme as a quarterback in his system and with Liam Cohen. But at the time we knew we had him because it was like, you could tell just the panic set in within a quarterback, a young quarterback who was unable to understand what's going on from a disguised standpoint of like, okay, boom, like now the timer in my head is quicker because as soon as he doesn't see his first read, my cleats are on the ground, I'm ball out breaking to try to go pick something off or get ready for when he's starting to run with the ball or check the ball down. Yeah, because like on the other side of it, maybe if we had like five shows together, I push back a little bit on you saying Brock's the best quarterback in the NFL, but I've realized very quickly here, you're the best teammate in the league, not only the best linebacker. But you know with Shanahan for us casual viewers, like I just expect there's a floor that's so much higher for every quarterback because of what Kyle's track record has been. And this goes back to like, man, they like a Roppolo that much. And then I think I kind of figured out with Garoppolo, like there were, it felt like there were some maybe limitations out in the field and that the offense could be a little predictable. But then you'd have like, again, I don't know how many of these guys you were there for, but like Nick Mullins has a nice little run, it was like CJ had a run and like, Donald comes in and it was like, I kind of can't wait to see what happens with Donald. And for everybody that's like, how does the league miss out on a party? And if you go back and watch him in college and like, I watch a lot of college ball, you'd be like, Hey, this looks like a smart guy who's undersized. And this is exactly where this guy always goes when he's drafted. And I would say even physically, some of the stuff that we really value and contend to overvalue, it's like, Hey, I don't care how big your arm is, if you can't get to a point of identifying some stuff and just being a decision maker that's not going to freak out or have some sort of pocket awareness, that Brock feels like he checks a lot of the boxes that are harder to evaluate on Saturday. Yeah. So, you know, I think some people look at his success and go, Oh, I wonder what he would be without Shanahan, but it seems like you would say, no, no, no, like, was there a moment with Brock where you're like, Okay, this is actually different. Like we have a chance here to be even more dynamic in the passing game, despite everybody giving the head coach all the credit. No, I mean, it was the moment he stepped into being the starter when Jimmy went down in 2022, it was 2022, 2023, 2022. He came in in that Miami Dolphins game when Jimmy went down and made some throws in that game. Because of course, when you get a rookie quarterback in, what is what does a defensive coordinator do on the opposite side? He's like, man, let's send the house at him. Let's see if he can really make a throw or read a defense on the fly versus just hold on to it crumble and then take a sack. He's delivering throws that a 10 year veteran would make in terms of being able to process at the highest level and understand where that ball needs to go and delivering it in the rhythm, in the timing that needs to be delivered. I think there's baseline, there's like, for a quarterback, starting quarterback in this league who wants to be, you know, actually great player in this league, there's baselines in terms of athletic ability, arm strength. If you're going to be a shorter in stature, obviously these baselines kind of, they bump up a little bit. They got to be a little bit better. And I think people, they don't understand with Purdy, the savviness, the quickness, the quick burst that he has to be able to escape and roll out and create with his legs. I think it's shocking when guys get on the field and they're actually playing him where it's like, oh shoot, I didn't realize he was that twitchy. And I think he's joked around where he's like, yeah, I had a better 10, 10 yard split on the 40 than Christian and Debo at the combine. And I'm like, wait, is that true? And he's like, everybody lies about that. I'm pretty sure that's a real thing. Like he had a good 10 yard split. Like what does that mean? I don't know. But at the end of the day, like he's got some twitchiness about him to then be like, okay, that's enough. Now, what's the thing that's the deal breaker? It's the processing ability upstairs to not do like the whole Kyle Shanahan argument. Of course, Kyle is the best, of course, in my mind to ever do it in terms of head coach and play caller. But at the end of the day, you can only put a quarterback in the right position or the right scheme. You know, what am I trying to say? A quarterback at the end of the day when bullets are flying and he's out there in the game, he's the one that got to make it happen. He's the one that's got to figure it out and be able to process, deliver the football, do it over and over and over and over and over again in the heat of battle of like, of what people are trying to attack him with. So the people who don't want to get parties do like, well, you just obviously don't understand the game. You don't understand how football works. You don't know how the quarterback position is played. And you need to go watch film because you go and watch that Monday night, Tabe just now, you can't tell me that that's that's that's music. Like that's beauty at its core right there. What he just did, what he just did and performed on, on that on a national stage. Yeah, I just looked it up. McCaffrey's was a one five two. Purdy's was a one five five. So close the ballpark. No, but he said it. You're right. He did say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's listen, it was right there. You guys, there's no way anybody believed him when he first said that. The D-bow one might be a stretch. I don't know if I have an official number on this. That's ten yard, man. That little ten yard burst. After that, it's like, okay, listen, you got what you got. You know, I'm writing that same ballpark. It's like, I'll lean on the ten yard when I'm gloating to get about my speed. And then once it gets to the 40, it's like, all right, listen, I'm not anything special compared to anybody else. Yeah, but I mean, there's an argument to be made that you'd rather be quicker in a ten yard. Oh, absolutely. And most positions on the field in an NFL game, you'd, yeah, you, it's a ten yard burst. The only time you're not in a ten yard burst for my position is if you're burnt on something where you're, you got beat and you got a haul, you got a whole tail to go run somebody down. You might have the best. Well, look, there's going to be some quarters that are faster than you, but I think one of my favorite things about you is there, maybe you're, you're 20 to 30. Oh shit, I got to get out on this guy's speed is faster than everybody else. We're the quarterbacks. Like I got him. I got him. My, on every single play I run harder than the guy who runs the four, four, four, three. The guys who four run four, four, four, three, they know they can kind of like coast and turn, pick and choose when to turn it on versus me. I'm the four, six. It was like, I'm running that four, six every single play. And so I got to make sure my gas tank is where it needed to be to make sure I'm running that four, six every play. I got to ask you about the Seattle Rams game because, you know, this is, if you're the Rams and I'm bringing this up because of the division and like what is still played for you guys. So it makes sense. So I'm sure you're, I don't know where you were for the game. If you're texting with your boys, you're just going like, okay, because I think a lot of people go into that game and like, based on the first matchup and Donald's issues, they know what they need to do now. They get that big lead. The Rams have gone into this 13 personnel thing, which I do think is really interesting and how a lot of people have talked about it. It's because it's like, we're giving you a look that actually is not what we want to do. But yet the running backs are stepping up and there's no Devonte. So then you're like, all right, well, how often are they going to be going out of two wide receiver sets the entire thing? But I think before we get into some of the design stuff that's happening here with the Rams, when the Rams are leading that game, like the football sense made or the football world made sense to me at that point when it was that score. I'm like, you know, I think they're the best team in the league. They're going to be the ones. See, they're going to win the division. They blow that game. Yeah. What's the worst you've I mean, I guess it might be the Super Bowl loss, but that's going to be the kind of loss where you're just like, how like that's going to let this get away like it was. Yeah, it was like we had this so wrapped up in a present. How did we let that one go? And I think it honestly speaks to the fact that they fired their special teams coordinator after the game. You know what I'm saying? Like that was a pivotal moment in the game where you have a guy, I think did he did he fumble the? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, it was that we get they gave up at punt return touchdown to Seattle, right? The Rashid Shahidi ran it. That was the first touchdown. Right. Right. That was there. When I remember when we were going into playing against them, that was their Achilles heel. We talked about how we had an advantage against them in special teams because, you know, of course, people never talk about special teams, but it's that's the third part of the game. You got offense, you got defense, and you got teams. So, you know, I think those one or two plays that you talk about swings and momentum. And yeah, I mean, Seattle had to have a lot of things go right in that game for them to even have a chance to win it. Like you talked about those two point conversions that they converted on. I've never seen in my entire life a team who the ball gets thrown behind the line and scrimmage. They blow the whistle. They're running back, picks it up in the end zone. They're lined up to kick the ball off. And then all of a sudden they're saying, hey, no, we reviewed it. And it's actually a two point conversion. And so it's like, that was wild. And then you go on and they got to score the two point conversion to tie it up and then a two point version to win it in an overtime. So, you know, a lot of things had to go go their way in that game and to for them to win it. But all in all, the Rams, I know they're sticking their stick to their stomach right now because they had full control of that game and they had full control over their destiny to win the one seed. And now they have to have some things go in their favor in order to even have that happen now. They also had the miss field goal as they were going back and forth once the score was tied up. That's what it was. He missed the field goal. I guess I just never, I don't know. I mean, there'd be all 22 blocking stuff that somebody would have to explain to me to understand why it's the special teams coordinators fault on that one. But you can't just sit here and blame it on the special teams. Like you, the Rams had that's something that we don't know. They had their MVP quarterback with the football at the end of the game where it's like, you guys get a first down, you ice the game and this game is over. But they, they, I think they went three and out at the end of the game to give the Seahawks another chance to take the ball and go score. And then obviously they went for two to win it in overtime. So I mean, you want to blame, you want to blame people blame the offense for not icing it. Yeah. No, there was, I fully expected once it was the ridiculous two point thing, I'm like, okay, it's 30, 30 and guess what's going to happen? Stafford's going to go down the field. They're going to set up because everybody gets in a field goal range at the end of games now. It's like automatic and everybody's kicking the hell out of the ball. So I was like, they're going to still end up winning this and everybody's going to kind of forget about this collapse and they'll be the one seed and on and on and on because I felt like they were the most complete team. Okay. Explain to me, like I understand the numbers and I think most people listening understand 13 personnel or it's the one receiver. Well, it's like one three is the one back. Three tight ends, which means the one receiver. And as everybody's going to get into this and you notice some stuff with Stafford McVeigh and the appreciation people have for McVeigh is that he'll figure it out. He'll evolve. He'll look like a completely different team. What does it mean for you when you're out there going, okay, this is this thing they like doing is kind of taking the NFL world by storm here. But really it feels like they're trying to show us a personnel and then run out, run different stuff as opposed to what this personnel would tell you they were doing. Yeah. I mean, it's just unorthodox to what you're, what you're accustomed to seeing around the NFL. When you see teams getting to 13 personnel, that means they're getting all big people on the field to do what, to run the football, right? Like they want to get their big guys in there and say, hey, we're going to now muscle you into running this football, so on and so forth. But the thing that's unique with the Rams is they got personnel and they got obviously a guy in McVeigh who can dress it up in certain, in different ways to not only run the football effectively, but to now pass the football because he has trust in these tight ends that they've now acquired. Like this guy Ferguson out of, out of Oregon this year, you know, he may not been a guy who was getting involved in the past game as much early on in the season, but now I'm seeing him get way more involved where he's getting tons of ops. He's a freak. Yeah. That tells me that, that Stafford now has a ton of trust in this kid to be able to even just look his way and throw him the ball because if he didn't, then he's like, man, I'm not, I'm not even gonna, I don't want to look his way because if I don't trust that he's going to run the right route, if he's going to catch the ball, do these things. You know, I remember lining up against him on that Thursday night game and it was, he was out at number one, we're in man coverage out as a number one receiver and he ran a goal ball on me and usually I'm like, that's how it is. Like I run a goal ball out here. He ran a goal ball. He had Stafford looked that way. I'm pretty sure he would have caught that goal ball, but I think it just goes to show you that the kid has talent and now it's like developing that trust to then get him the ball more and more. And when you have that ability to throw the football and 13 personnel, it keeps the defense on their heels because now the defense is at a disadvantage because what are they going to do when you get 13 personnel on the field? You're going to go big guys on the field. You're going to bring in more blind backers. You might bring in more delineated to try to do what, to stop the run. And then so now when they're passing the ball, they kind of got these mismatches because they have athletes at tight end to be able to expand the field. And they still, of course, have one receiver on the field, which is usually Puka, who you're now getting him in a one on one matchup, probably to either get him open running down the field or across the field or to the flat or something. They just, they hit you with so many different ways and all the pre snap motions to try to get your eyes moving in different directions. It's so confusing, but at the end of the day, they're just running simple concepts with different personnel groups and different ways of running those different plays. And they're doing this without Higbie too. So like they're also going like to the next three tight ends and look, Colby's terrific. They had that play a few weeks ago, I forget what it was, where they ran Puka left to right in motion and then they had him cut up in between the offensive linemen and he's coming out of that and you're just going, bro. I watched that play. I was like, why hasn't that been a thing for like 20 years? Because, no, it's crazy because they'll, they'll run that insert with Puka a ton where he's coming up into that C gap to now dig out a safety, dig out a nickel, dig out maybe even a linebacker. And so when you've got a guy running in there, you got that safety thing and he needs to come in and fill that gap. And then he just runs right by you for an over route for a corner route. It's like, Oh my gosh, like these guys are unreal. Like it's just stuff coming at you in all different ways. The big shack is out now and it's a serious burger. We're talking two Angus beef patties, three buns, new secret sauce. It's stacked balanced and built the right way. You get everything you expect from Shake Shack, fresh ingredients, that toasted potato bun and sauce that pulls the whole thing together. It's big, it's fresh and it's legit one of their best burgers ever. I know I've talked about this in the holidays and a couple of cheeseburgers and the kids and the whole thing. But you know what mom's love is maybe not having to cook every single night with family in town. You know what everybody loves is a cheeseburger. You know what's great about this one is that it's easier to put together than Legos because they put it together for you. You're like, who built this thing and be like, that guy back there. Like, this is great. I don't need to buy batteries for this. It's ready to go as soon as it's out the box. So think about Shake Shack and think about the efficiency and think about the taste and think about, Hey, I didn't even have to put this thing together. They build it for me. If you've been waiting to see what all the hype's about today's the day you go to Shake Shack and order the Big Shack sounds familiar, made different. I loved your conversation with Thurman James. Any of us that love college ball, you know, you get into the draft and you're like, how's that guy got not going to be special, right? Just watching him just ruin things. Oh my God. And then there's been a few mic'd up games that I've watched him on where then you like fall in love with him all over again because he's not, he's not like nasty talking shit. He's almost friendly. But it's friendly from this perspective of like, I'm still that dude out here. So like, don't make any mistakes and I'm not going to be out here and be like evil. And it's so clear that you guys were kind of like cut from the same cloth and like hyped. And I was going to share this with you because like, I've always liked Tony Jefferson, right? And then Henley, who you guys had FaceTimed into your interview there, which is always the sign of respect. Because if you're like, Hey, who do you want to FaceTime to have jump in the interview? As a guy that guy doesn't answer, then you just look at your asshole. But watching that chiefs game, and like we get what the Chargers are supposed to be under Harbaugh, right? They have Herbert and the O line is falling apart. And I think we all like hampton a lot and the receivers have been kind of like great some weeks and other weeks, you know, whatever, at least there's some names there, but it's still like Harbaugh wants you to feel the punishment. And with all the new rules, and I'm going to factor you into this as well, sure, with the new rules and the way the game is called, like when I watched that chiefs game and granted, Rishi Rice had been getting torn apart in that game. And he'd also gotten destroyed in the Houston game. I was just about to say that. He's been mad for like eight days. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he's killing me right now. Thornton gets hit by Jefferson and it ended up being a concussion. And look, we can all say like, hey, you know, the nice thing to say is nobody wants it's not that it's that wasn't the nastiest hit I've ever seen. And when the ball carrier goes lower, as you're lining up the hit, you're there's nasty plays and they're just mean hits and Tony Jefferson laid them out. And so then Rice is mad at Jefferson. And I think Rice is more mad because of what he had gone through, as opposed to even the hit on Thornton. Yeah, I just wonder if you're ever like, if you're one of these guys and you are one of these guys, if you'll have afternoons with an offense where you just want to be like, Hey, what do you think it is that we do here? Like, do you so have you noticed this shift and like, when it's physical, when it's aggressive guys like the charges have like you have in San Francisco that you just feel like the offensive guys lose sight of like what your job is, even though the rule changes have told you to try to figure out a way to safer way of doing this. No, absolutely. And you got to understand too, it's like, no matter what the time of, I don't know, like where we're at in football and the NFL these days, whether it was back when guys were getting folded up like lawn chairs or now where it's like, it's a little more softer, the offense is going to be mad regardless of their if their guys are getting hit and knocked out or not. You know, it's like, yeah, of course, I feel like there's hits like that Tony Jefferson hit where it's like, what do you want the guy to do? But you know, guys are taught on offense to protect their brother, right? Because everybody's talking about, oh, you know, we're family, we're brothers, this out of the other, if you guys getting hit, that's this is like the closest thing in my mind and like with with the way that our sport has played out violent, it is too fighting, like you got to you got to stick up for your guys when you're out there, you know, going back and forth with with each other. So, you know, I'd always have thought about it as I'm always trying to toe the line, right? I mean, yes, they've made the game safer with trying to take certain hits out of it. But at the end of the day, you can still be extremely physical, extremely violent in the right way to now impose like because you want to impose your will on your opponent, you want to get not only through him physically, but you want to get in their minds mentally to say, oh my gosh, these guys are just all over us. They're flying around, they're hitting us. It just feels different than anything else we've ever encountered. And I feel like that's a huge part of my game. It's a huge part of how we play defense and how we play honestly football here with the Niners, like we were just get workers of physical football team. And that's just how it always is. And that starts, you know, early in the year and training camp guys going after each other. Of course, this is all in the right way. Like it's nothing dirty, nothing's out of line. But you know, it's a mindset of like, man, it's either you or me, you know, because if I if I if I try to just let off and now an offensive player is is lowering his pads on me or ducking his head, and I get folded up. It's like, man, I'm not I'm not about to put that on tape, you know, because this this whole thing is our resume at the end of the day. And there everybody's watching every single play, every single game. And the moment that you let off the gas, you might as well go ahead and hang it up because then you you start tiptoeing around, it's not meant for you anymore. So there is a fine line in there of like, man, what's too much? What's not enough? And you got to kind of you got to kind of tow that line when in terms of how you play the game these days. And it is what it is. Like, it's not cut out for everybody. Not everybody's built that way. But you see the guys who, you know, are the imposers out on the field, like they do tend to tow that line. Yeah, once I started working with more of the guys that played defense at ESPN, like, I used to think, hey, is that necessary? And I don't know, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. I think it was, yeah, might have been the Sean Taylor hit in the pro bowl. Uh huh. Yeah. And Darren Woodson in the audience has heard me tell the story, but I'm going to tell it to you again. And Darren Woodson just looks at me with like, absolute disgust and Woodson's the best. And Darren just looks at me and goes, you live. Like, you're on the field. You're live. Like, what the fuck are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, you know what? I was like, he's right. Like, that's that's, is there an offensive player that you've gone up against? And I'm not going to ask you for the guys that complain too much because that might cause some problems for you. Yeah. Is there somebody that never complained? Like you can just lay them out and they're like, good tackle for everyone. Oh, 1000%. 1000% is Joe Burrow through and through Joe Burrow. I played him a couple times and we played him in 2023. They came over here. That was part of that, that three game losing stretch where I mean, we were getting mulled by, by a couple of teams and they were one of them that came right before our buy and it was out in the open field and I just ran right through him and he delivered the ball anyway. It was on the third down and they converted, but I remember him just popping up and like, it was nothing. He's like, Hey man, good hit. And I'm like, oh, what the heck? Like, just ran through you. Like, I didn't even let up either. And you see it all the time though, when you're watching him and you're watching games where against the Ravens where it's like, it's just, it's physical guys are getting after them late hits that aren't being called. And he's like, instead of him just like flopping his arms and being like, bro, what the heck? He's like, he just kind of just, just picking himself off the, off the turf. Like you got his linemen kind of trying to lift him up and he just, he's just a dog. Like he just, for whatever reason, I don't know. He's makeup's different than a lot of these guys in this league. And so my, my hat's off to him. He, you talk about competitive spirit. He's got it through and through and you can see why guys rally around him. And it's something that makes him special is that he got that, that dog in him. Some guys got it, some guys don't. And you know, he shows it. I want to ask him about the AFC on Monday's pot. I opened it up saying I give up. I don't know. Maybe there is no one special. Maybe it's all new and we're having a hard time with that because we know Pat's going to be out Lamar's out and the bill style have a chance at higher seed here. But with that defense, you're like, okay, you know, and as I watched Jacksonville, a team that I think most people have a hard time saying, Hey, I think the Jackson, if you're on TV on Monday, I think the Jacksonville Jaguars are the best team in the AFC. There's going to be pushback. And now that pushback is starting to feel a little unfair because like maybe Trevor Lawrence isn't going to be the franchise changing icon that we expect with that profile coming out of Clemson and being the number one overall pick and having all the physical stuff. This has probably been the best stretch he's ever played. So I'd have to see it be a little bit longer before I say, okay, you're five, you know, when everything clicks. But if you have a defense like this that has been playing this well now for like five weeks, and then you look at the rest of the landscape in the AFC, I don't know where you are. This is not a leading question. It's simply me expressing my own confusion at because we have so many of these stalwarts out, including Borough, all the teams that we normally are going to love in this conference, we have to get real comfortable with something new coming out, perhaps if it's not going to be Buffalo. Yeah, and we talked about it that first podcast we had last week where it was like, that AFC is so wide open and even more so after this past weekend because, yeah, Denver was slotted as the team to beat in the AFC. You know, they were the one seed currently, and it was kind of them and the Patriots kind of battling for that top spot. And it's so tough to go on the road and playing Denver and Jacksonville is kind of, you know, they've had a great year, but there's been some times where it's like, ah, can Trevor make that next step to really be in the guy and leading his team to these big time wins in this league? And he's continuing to show it now. I think, like you mentioned, their defense has some real promising pieces to it where they're able to overwhelm cats. And I think Denver, of course, has a really good defense as well, but there's a lot of pressure on, there's a lot of pressure on Bowen, there's a lot of pressure on Bowen Nicks to really operate and get it and will his team to victory because, you know, the run game is, you know, so, so obviously they've had injuries at different positions, running back. You know, it is wide open. I like the Patriots a lot. I think, I think their game against the Ravens showed a lot. I think, obviously, Drake May is up there in the MVP conversation with Matt Stafford, only in his second season, it's unbelievable. Vraebral seems to be just a complete players coach, understands how to really fire his team up. Their defense is playing opportunistic. The run game is efficient. They play the game the right way. Stefan Diggs seemed like he just, the ultimate competitor, leader for the team. Yeah, man, I mean, they got a lot of things going in their favor right now. So I don't know who exactly I would say, oh, this is the leader in the clubhouse because, like you said, like I would have said Denver before last week, but then Jacksonville does what they do. So does that mean Jacksonville is now, you know, at the lead or is it, or now does it go back, fall back to the Patriots? And then, of course, the Bills have a kind of like a, ah, yeah, you beat the Browns, but it was a tight game. Josh Allen hurts his foot. So what does that look like? Yeah, I'm almost going to make myself pick someone other than the Bills because I think I've seen enough of this Bills team where I'd only be picking it because of one guy. And, you know, this Denver defense, I'd like to see it be back to where it was the first half of the season. This has been about five straight weeks where it's not what you'd expect, but the personnel's still out there. So if it's your tan, if it's Benito, if it's Zach Allen, like if it's, yeah, it's like, all right, well, you're going to just, they're just not going to be good all of a sudden. Like that doesn't make any sense. Like Bo Nix is a little bit easier for me to go, like, I don't like him as much as this other group of dudes. But then Bo Nix lights up the Packers when I was getting ready to do that. This is why I don't believe in Bo Nix segment. And then the Packers blow that game and Bo Nix is, that might have been the best game he's ever played. Like he was unbelievable in that game. So I think I'll probably, I'll probably ask you again at the end of the regular season. It's just not an original question, but it speaks to how competitive the AFC is right now. Yeah, but like, I might rather have the really good defense in the average quarterback going like we talked about before. Yeah, exactly. Right. I think this time of year, especially. Okay, I'm going to do this. We're going to make sure everybody's, you know, cool about it. And I sent it out. I asked X for questions for Fred. So we're going to do just a couple. Okay. Here, we tagged you on this. Very nice. I'd like to hear his thoughts on the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Table that one. I didn't prep you. Oh man. Do you have any plans to fight in MMA when you're done playing football? Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a for, it's a for debate. We might. Are we a well rounded guy or we, we strictly one discipline? Yeah, that's the thing is like, I'd have to really get into the ground game stuff. Cause I mean, I've, I've trained on the feet for years now, but so maybe, maybe me and Jake Paul down the line, we'll fight for 200 million and just get, just get tons of views. I could see you signing up for that. He made how much money in his last fight against Anthony Joshua. Did you watch that fight? I did. Dude. I mean, to get in the ring with that cat, that guy's 6'6, 260 and Jake Paul's like 6'1, 215. And yeah, of course he's not, he's not engaging from this, from the jump. He's kind of, you know, he's jumping around the ring and he's, he's trying to tackle buddy, but still to even get in the ring with that guy. Like, hey bro, much respect. And he made like 90 mil doing something like that. It's unbelievable. I've watched Joshua enough to, to feel like, like there's boxing people are going to be like, what are you talking about? He's a heavyweight champ. And he's had this many belts. And it's like, yeah, but I mean, generally the thought of what he would be at his peak, he never hit that. There was always some disappointing result that he would have. And you were like, what's going to happen here? And the fact that he's got 30 plus pounds on him, he's got all that reach on him. He's an actual heavyweight champion of the world. Dude, I didn't think, I didn't think they were actually going to go through with it. I was shocked. Yeah. I think Jake, even with the falling down, trying to grapple a little bit thing, and he was running around from him in the beginning, but I thought Joshua was trying to knock him out for like four of those rounds. And then he finally gets him. And that's a nasty, straight right hand breaks his jaw, but he didn't knock him out. So I don't care. You can hate, look, the YouTube videos weren't for us, man. They were for kids. And just because Jake became a millionaire off of that, and you're annoyed by it now, like he's, I have all the respect in the world. Absolutely. Same here. Tons of respect. All right. So how about, how about we do, I need to screen these quicker. Here's a real one. Can he explain the process of hearing the play call in the helmet and how he communicates it with the other 10 guys in the field in a timely manner? Oh, good question. I mean, it's way, from how I imagine it, it's way easier than what an offensive quarterback has to do in terms of getting his whole crew lined up. But because our play calls are what two, maybe two or three words, I give a two, three word call. But the key is, is having everybody on the same page for the checks throughout the down, like pre snap, before the down even starts. Because yeah, they might line up in a certain formation and it's IR boom, everybody's on the same page. But if this guy motions, then we're checking to this, but if he, if he jet motions like super fast, we're not checking that we're going to this instead. Oh, but if he jet motion stops and lines up and then they got two guys that, and then they got a guy that shifts over here, then we're going to check and we're going to go to this now. And we got to make sure, I got to make sure that all 11 are on the same page. Cause if one guy's off, then that's when you see, you got to get an explosive pass down the field. It's like, oh my gosh, like these guys just can't get it right. It's like, no, there's a, there's a lot that goes into the pre snap communication before you even snap the ball. Like I'm barking out all these things pre snap. And now I got to line up. I got to get in my stance. I got to, I got to see my indicators of like what the offense is trying to run. And then they're hiking the ball. I got to get in my job or after in the run game, I got to shuffle. I got to strike a 350 pound lineman, get them off me, boom, make a tackle, drive my legs. So now pushing back rather than getting driven back in the past game, get my cleats in the ground quick enough to then understand, is he trying to look me off? Is he trying to throw a ball behind me or is he checking it down? Break on the ball to either make a pass breakup or an interception or shoot. Like, is it bro, there's so much going on pre snap to then post snap, having to go make a play is completely different. Like anybody can go out there and say all this stuff, blah, blah, blah, but then to now go try and make a play on the football after that. That's where I feel like that's what separates the goods from the greats. Right. So there is a lot of pre snap communication that's going on. But like I said, I couldn't imagine on the other side as a quarterback, all the verbiage. I mean, some guys use wristbands, but all the verbiage you got to get out to the offense, motions, shifts, making sure guys are set, delivering play fakes, delivering even simple thing is handoffs to then continuing to do the play fakes, to now draw the defensive end and make sure that he doesn't just close down the line of scrimmage to then make a TFL. It's like all these little nuances of the position and then we can't even get started on throwing the ball like that's putting the ball in the right place, knowing where it's supposed to go, escaping out of the pocket. Do I step up? Do I evade to my right? Do I evade to my left? Do I like protecting the football in the pocket? It's just so much little things that go in for a quarterback. I can't imagine. I can't believe they're not like at least three or four blown coverages a game. Yeah. Considering how many snaps, how many things they're showing you. And now with defenses prioritizing all this pre-snap movement and shifting, like you guys are inviting in a lot more chance at error for the advancement. It just feels like this is where defenses are. It's like, all right, we're showing, we have to counteract what had happened the last few years. So now we're going to try to mess you up now, the way you've been messing us up for years. And when I see a blown coverage and the one time it maybe happens in a game, I'll see it. And like, again, this is me not maybe understanding like this is why you guys are all so special. And if you want a smart team draft smart players, but I'm 70 plus snaps, 80 snaps. I'm surprised there aren't like three blown coverages a game. Hey, me too. I mean, you go through so many reps throughout a week of practice of meeting time, walkthroughs, practice time, more walkthroughs and more meetings, or it's like you, they're ingraining this stuff in your brain over and over and over again, at a chance to see it in the game. And it may, you may not even ever see that rep in the game. There's obviously stuff that comes up in a game that you haven't seen, but you still got to be able to think on the fly and make sure if we all mess up, but we're all messed up together, like, all right, we can get through the down, but all the problems arise when all right, we're all correct, but then there's one guy's off and he doesn't understand what we're doing. Then it's like, boom, that's when things now the defense is unlocked. And as a defensive coordinator, I'm sure it's like, Oh my gosh, like, what am I going to call if these guys aren't out there just executing the little things right? Because yeah, I mean, I could try and put them in a more simple defense, but that's now hurting your defense because the quarterback who knows what they're doing, they're like, Oh, okay, boom, you, this is, this is just seven on seven. Now I know exactly where the ball is supposed to go versus, you know, trying to make it muddy for them. We'll do that every week. Just a couple of ones. We won't hit you up on the cold war or anything like that. We'll make sure you're, you're prepped up. I'll do my research on, on my history. Make sure you do your research as well and check out his latest episode with Alex Smith, who when we had on the pod, like people that were on the fence about Alex Smith, loved him afterwards. We know the friendship means a lot to you. The generally James one was great. So Fred Warner, real ones, the league, it's a lot of fun and he's a natural at it. So hey, get healthy and we'll be talking again soon. All right, Fred? Yes, sir. Appreciate you, buddy. Basketball season is here, which means the excitement of being in the stands before tipoff is here too. The game time app gives the advantage back to fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use and the game time guarantee means you can trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. I was scrolling through the NBA Christmas Day games and I'm seeing Spurs Thunder tickets starting at $86. I know we have a lot of Spurs Thunder this week. PJ Carlysimo and I talked about it a ton, but I love watching the Thunder and what they do defensively. And obviously we all love watching Wimbanyama and trying to see what everyone's done defensively against him where it's finally like after a month of games this year, you're like, you know what? I don't know if the Lakers are first. They're so smart with their advanced stuff, but they were like, how about we put smaller rugged players on Wimbanyama and try to mess with them on the catch more and then we can try to figure out how we want to bring help after that. And seeing that Cup game where it was like, man, they had Caruso on him straight up. So is that something they're going to default to? Were they testing it out during a Cup game? Like this is the Cup. But that's the kind of stuff I absolutely love to talk about all the time. And whenever I'm watching two teams play when I think they're going to probably be on a path, not a certainty, but could match up in the playoffs, like what kind of stuff are they going to try to prioritize here in the closing minutes in a close game? Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with game time, download the game time app, create an account and use code RISILLO. R-U-S-S-I-L-L-O. For $20 off your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code RISILLO. R-U-S-S-I-L-L-O for $20 off. Download the game time app today. Let's talk some NBA. As you know, PJ, Carlos Samo, a dear... Well, yeah, maybe we're not that close, but you know how much I love this guy. I love talking about all the biggie stuff. I don't know if we'll have time for that today. A busy, busy NBA schedule for the Christmas viewers out there on ABC. He's got the middle game there, Maz and Warrior. So it's good to see him, man. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. I'm great to be with you. So I wanted to start with OKC because, you know, look, they're even better this year. They have a million options. It's incredible that you can build a roster like this. The irony is kind of like, yeah, you can't really do this anymore with the rosters and restrictions and Presti's able to kind of get this last version of it in here. And also being on the competition committee, you wonder if he kind of was able to map this out on top of everything else. So look, if you had a game plan against them, what do you do? What are you talking to your assistants about? Well, you know, I mean, the cop body is you can't change too much. You got to play the way you're going to play and you have to take care of the ball first of all. I don't remember. We may have even talked about this last year at Christmas time. I don't remember a team that has led the league in turnovers, fewest turnovers as an offensive team and led the league in most turnovers forced as a defensive team, which I mean, people are aware of it, but they don't understand what that means. I mean, you're already starting the game. You're just giving them a whole slew of extra possessions to begin with. On top of that, they're the best or second best they're one and two right now. I mean, it's a little early for stats, but they're one or two on points, off turnovers. So when you do turn the ball over against them, A, they force the most, B, they're incredible. I mean, they just, they score like in a split second. I mean, you're so happy when you turn the ball, like on a violation or the ball goes out of bounds, it's a dead ball turnover, because in transition, they're just, they're incredible the way, how quickly they get down the floor. All their players can run and catch the ball on the fly. All their players can pass the ball or shoot it. I mean, you know, they got two of the best passing bigs in the game with Hartenstein and with Chad Holmgren and they got a slew of about seven or eight wings that can all run, you know, long arms, they play defense, they run the floor, they can finish in transition and they can shoot threes. So it's like the number one thing is we got to take care of the ball. The interesting thing is they're not a really good rebounding team. So you have that little dilemma right now, are we going to send people to the boards and try and hurt them when we don't score in the half court against their, you know, their half court defense is excellent, but they're not a very good rebounding team. So you're tempted or you're teased into, well, we got to go to the glass, we got to hurt them on second chance points themselves. And, but then if you do that, you're exposing your back court. So you got to walk that line. But it is a way you can, you can get at them. You can hurt them on the offensive glass, but you better get, you better get the rebound and make them take the ball out of bounds. Because again, in transition, they're so good. There's a lot of teams that don't even send anybody to the glass, but it's funny in the last two or three years and the Knicks right now, or maybe Celtics kind of, we're a little ahead of the curve. The Knicks right now might be the best. They've analyzed and they know now they send guys to the boards from the weak side on the angle and they're, they're coming up with a lot more offensive rebound. So it's kind of interesting right now. There's kind of a rebirth of offensive rebounding in the league. Yeah, I'm with you, especially with the Knicks because you have Mitchell who comes in who's just an automatic. It's like he feels like he's right. You know, I, there's certain players that you think you have a read on and then it really was for me like last year during the playoffs. I was like, this guy's better than you think he is. Like he's impacting possessions, you know, because I don't love. He and Stephen Adams are in one sense, they're so limited in what they can do as basketball players. And in the other sense, the word you said, they impact the game more than most of the players in the entire NBA. Yeah. I mean, this is a whole different thing because like, you know, I was watching Minnesota and get that win against OKC, right? Yeah. Incredible. They got checked or they got going at chat, you know, it looked like something. I'm watching stuff and wondering like, especially when it's two teams, you could see each other in the playoffs. I was like, I wonder if this is something that they're going to do because Ant got really stuck against them last year. And you could tell there was moments of him not wanting to force it, but then that sort of evolved into like his aunt being passive of all people. Like I don't think I'd ever really worry about him being passive, but then, you know, this fine line of aggressive and passive where it's like, well, what do you want the guy to do? Dribble into three people and miss a shot to prove how intense he is, you know, so you can't have it both ways. But you know what? I was thinking about Minnesota and OKC. I was just like, the problem is, even if Ant gets the better of SGA, which is asking a lot on a single night, it's like I need the rest of the guys to be even, right? To be even. And if you're thinking of like the chat, Rudy part of it, even if you still think Rudy is better defensively than Chet is, it's just hard for me to live with a guy who no one can pass the basketball to, you know, it's kind of back to your Mitchell thing. It's like, you know, how long can I get away with this thing that I also know is super important in some other category that I'm trying to win tonight? And it drags him away. Like you said, well, don't put them on Holmgren, you know, put them on Hartenstein and put them on one of the other guys. The other guys, they all go out to the three. Hartenstein maybe is not an effective three point shooter as compared to anybody else, but he still, it matchups and you can't dictate in transition against a team that's so good getting down the floor and say, okay, we're going to guard him with this. Well, guess what? You can't control who's guarding who a lot of times, a lot of possessions, there aren't that many dead ball possessions. And it's interesting because Minnesota's played them decently. They had a single digit loss to them. I mean, that's how ridiculous it is. People are talking about how many points you lose by the okay. So just them getting them once when, when only it's only a single digit game the first time they played, they beat him to second. I was waiting to see what happened. Was it last night or the night before they just lost by double digits again, but it appears to be at least a decent matchup. They can hang. Other people are out of the game by late first quarter or the first time out of the second quarter. You're saying this game's over. I mean, unless okay, see goes to sleep, the game is over. So it's incredible. But it is the key. There's no question. Jaden McDaniels is shocking me. I went to the University of Washington game last night, living in Seattle. And I just think back to Jaden McDaniels when he was at UW. I said, this guy's never going to make it in the league. He's not going to be a professional. He's too loose. He led the league in technicals when he was a freshman at the old pack 12. It's turned out to be one of the best defenders and an excellent player. So hats off to him, but they have some players who can match up with those wings that okay, see has everybody, eight of them. It's to the point last year when Kesty and I were getting ready, because we hadn't had him on that much bad on us at ESPN. And I said, I don't recognize some of these guys facially. And they all look the same. They all play the same. They're excellent defenders. They get deflections. They run the floor. They make trees. Now, at least I recognize them all, but it almost doesn't matter. Mark Dagnall just keeps throwing guys into the game and one after the other just pick it up. They've weathered injuries better than any team in the league. They've had really a lot of injuries over the last couple of years led by Holmgren. And it doesn't matter. Somebody's, you know, the A.J. Mitchell's, the Wiggins, these guys, they just step up and they don't miss a beat. No, I mean, they've only had Jaylen Williams, their second best player for 10 games. Exactly. And he's one of the best. It doesn't matter. You could make in case he's one of the best five, six players in the entire league. Something that I saw, because San Antonio and the Thunder are going to go out of twice here, where, you know, there's, there's a version of events against the Nuggets in that seven game series where it's like, well, once they put Caruso on Yoko, that changed everything. And like, I've thought about dedicating an afternoon. I don't know that I have the time to do it, but going back to those possessions, because how I remember is that Caruso is the initial defender and then it's just swarming people. So the idea that like Caruso is just one on one, taking care of Yoko. I don't believe that's what I saw at the time, but I feel like it's been played out a little bit because one team wins a series, the other one doesn't. So I've seen them, there was a game last year against Wimbanyama where it just the attack dog defense on him where it's like, he's so big, the frame is so long that if he's even taken a second with his decision with the ball in his hands, just everybody just swarm on him and it's going to overwhelm him and he looked overwhelmed. The Spurs get him in that cup game and in that fourth quarter, they went Caruso and they weren't really bringing doubles to him. And I'm thinking like, is Dagnall, is he, is he deciding like, hey, I'm just going to show you something here or I want to see how it looks because this is the absurdity of the thunder is that I think even with this record and the performance they've had at your point, they're like, they're plus five in turnover margin. Second best team is the Celtics at like plus two, four. So you're right on it, like already going into it. Hey, we're going to be down five plus possessions in this game. When you see something like that, do you think that that's, hey, let's just see how it looks and experiment even though you could argue like, why would you be experimenting this here now and in what's a cup game and it's supposed to mean a little bit more? I agree. I think he does. I think he's, if it's possible to be underrated to have accomplished what Mark's accomplished, Dagnall, in such a short time, he's not a good coach. He's an excellent coach. And again, I give, go back, Clay Bennett and Sam Presti deserve a ton of credit. Sam's been the GM executive VP, whatever his title is right now. He's the major domo, obviously, in OKC since 0708. He got the job in 0708. He's been on the job since then. So the one thing that's really impressive about it is Clay Bennett and Sam Presti, Clay Bennett, the owner, primary owner and Sam Presti have been in charge of that franchise ever since. And a couple of years ago, they just broke it down. You know, after they had, you know, KD and Russell and James and them and different players in and out, it wasn't working. They broke it down. They went back to square one. Mark Dagnall had been a coach of the OKC blue, the G-League team, and they gave it to him. He had a couple of terrible records initially. He's so smart. He's so calculated. There is no question. He tries things at times, even tries them early in seven games series. We're going to try and play this way and see what's going on. And no, he's not, obviously, he did care about winning. They were trying to win the cup because, you know, it was disappointing for them last year. You remember Milwaukee destroyed them in the finals of the cup last year in Las Vegas. And now this team is a different team. They've won a championship. They're close to being at 100% right now. They're healthy. Yeah, I think for sure he was experimenting, if you will, or looking at different ways to play Wemby. I think you will tonight and in a Christmas game because there's a good chance they're going to meet San Antonio somewhere in the Western Conference playoffs. There's a good chance they're going to meet Minnesota again. I do think Minnesota is going to, you know, kind of get their act together and they're going to be there too. And it's going to be seven game series are interesting and the adjustments, we've talked about this a number of times. It reminds me so much. It's like college. It's the only time the NBA is like college in terms of you get to prepare, you get to really do things in the next game. And you play, you know, you play a little chess match with the other coach. Usually in the regular season, you don't have the time or the practices to change things, do this, do that. You're on a back to back, you're on a trip, whatever the heck it is. And injuries always place their part too. But that's again, we're OKC, but San Antonio also, the depth is a major factor. OKC's depth is ridiculous. How many players he plays on a regular basis at key times in a game, although the key times for them is often the third quarter, not the fourth quarter, but he puts these guys out there in situations so that if he's got to put them in a playoff game, even in the finals, they're accustomed to it and they're accustomed to playing with the, you know, with different combinations. I've said it before, but I just can't believe like in the NBA, I accept it, right? I accept that, especially with success, but usually youth and talent, there comes that bullshit face where you're dealing with stuff that you're like, you know, can't we just lace them up and play guys? Like you're all going to get your accolades, you're all going to get your money. It's all going to happen. And I don't really, like it's just kind of the timeline of the great young player where you're probably prioritizing the selfish things early on. And I'm not even being critical of it. It's just kind of the way of the world in this league. Everybody in their contract year, how they play those situations. I just can't believe that you could get this group together, have them be this young and, you know, Sam can have a vision and culture and Mark can be the most brilliant in-game guy, you know what I mean? Like you can, and for Mark, I don't even think it's necessarily the in-game part of it. I think it's his long term, like this is what we're doing. This is what we're trying and this is who we want to be and these are the, we want to be able to develop different options instead of just, you know, being who we are, knowing we're going to have this huge advantage. This is just, look, it's one thing to say in the modern era of the NBA and roster building. Again, they kind of got in under the cut off, the last call of roster building. They had to go out and just add all these guys. Now they wouldn't be able to do it. But to then have a personality where, you know, I don't blame a lot of you guys for losing your minds because you're just going like, what are we about? Like, what are we about as a team? And if I have some of the wrong personalities, then I'm fighting with my own team and I am more of the opposition on any given night. And that's the reality. There's a lot of teams, a lot. There's a number of teams, a good number of teams as talented or has as good a roster, but they haven't figured it out. And I think that Sam is his own man for sure, but he'd be the first to tell you, he took an awful lot from the San Antonio blueprint. And the main thing he took, first of all, is the continuity with Peter Holt and Pop and R.C. Buford did in San Antonio, Clay Bennett and Sam are doing in OKC. But they do their homework in terms of people. And they make a mistake every once in a while, but they move the guy on. They have really quality people. And these young guys have bought into what they're doing. Yes, they've just extended the big three and their payroll is going to go off the charts in the future. But SGA and the J-Dubb and Chat, Isaiah, I mean, the two pickups last year, Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Caruso were such incredible pickups. But those guys are about winning. I mean, I think you could almost say one through 18, 15 players in the three, two-way guys. OKC is about winning. And yeah, I mean, SGA is the best player in the league and he gets the most shots in jail and Williams when he's right is right there behind them. But the team's accepting of it. They know their roles. They know what you have to define roles. You got to have a leading score. You got to, you know, who you go to with critical situations. That team is on board and their culture, the winning culture they have, it's not rhetoric, it's not cliches. It's what separates them right now. And I think it's why San Antonio will be knocking on that door going forward, because I think Mitch Johnson is doing a great job there. Obviously, RCA always, but I think the Spurs, Wemby's like that also. When your best player cares more about winning than he does the individual things. And you know, you do the job they've done with the rookie at years with Stefan Castle. I can't believe I go to Dylan Harper is. Rahe bluely at the three games in. I thought he was good when he was at Rutgers. I had no idea he was this good this quickly. San Antonio is those, those two teams, if you know, health is always the biggest thing going forward. That may be a great and epic rivalry for the next four or five years at least in the Western Conference. Yeah, I'm with you on Castle. Like I thought it was limited coming out, which I think it was. And then, you know, there's something about just aggression, you know, I'm not telling you like the handles, the tightest. I'm not telling you the finishing package and all that kind of stuff. But I'm telling you right now, it's like if you're not squared up and ready for him defensively, he's going right through your chest. Relentless. And he was his butt off on defense like he'll guard SGA in jail. And he's going to get beat obviously as anybody is sometimes, but he doesn't back down. He just got, remember, we used to talk about Bruce Baldwin, how Bruce would like defend Kobe and Kobe would get 42 points. And Bruce is working just as hard in the fourth quarter, making him work for every one of those points. That's our Steph defense. He may not be textbook perfect, but he ain't backing down an inch from the best players in the league. And he's really, Danny early was dead. I remember going to the, they were in Seattle to play Gonzaga to battle in Seattle. And I walked into the practice and Danny goes, good, I think he was wearing number five at Yukon also. He was down and you can go down, check out number five, see what you think of him. And he was, he's unbelievable. And then the final four that year, he could have been the MVP in the final four Steph Gassel. He was that good as a, as a freshman at Yukon. Yeah. And you're right. I mean, there's stuff with Harper where I don't even care about the numbers. There's just little things with him where you look at his, like it was something you saw at Rutgers, you go, Oh, wait a minute, like you thought he was stuck on the baseline and he's not stuck on the baseline. I didn't really, I missed it. I didn't really, I thought he was good. I said, yeah, he's a good player. I had no idea he was this good this quickly. He's a man at mid Johnson when I, we had them earlier in the year against Golden State, ironically. And I said, you know, what about, he was out at the time, Harper, he said, you're not going to believe him. He said, what he was doing first, whatever it was games before he got hurt. And he said, he missed a chunk of the preseason. He said, he's going to improve pretty much significantly during the course of the year. I mean, you say rookies always do, but these rookies are playing that that's the thing about O.K. C's guys and San Antonio's guys, they're playing big minutes. Cooper flags doing that. I know right now Dallas's record isn't great, but this isn't like, you know, on a team that's tanking and he's getting meaning, you know, meaningless minutes. Cooper flag is handling the ball, taking big shots at the end of the game. Dylan Harper is, doesn't realize he's a rookie. I mean, he takes shots. He does things. He did things in a cup that were just super impressive. He's going to be a special player. And again, Harkson, probably no surprise at all him and his mother, obviously great bloodlines there. It looks like a guy that grew up as a little kid trying to score against an NBA dad. Amen. That's like, I see some of these things in there where you're like, well, see, this is a guy that was a little kid that his dad just was like, I'm going to block your shit. And you're going to have to figure out some of these little things. And he just, he has this very advanced, like you think he might be done on the possession and it's like he's not. He's still out. He's so big and strong, athletic. I mean, he's really a good player. This leads me to Houston because when I look at the West, we all love OKC. Yep. We love the idea of San Antonio, right? I still love Denver. No shock there. I'd say I even like Houston. I like Minnesota probably better than the Lakers. There's, you know, the Lakers, if they're fourth great, if they're sixth, maybe that makes a little bit more sense. Who knows, you know, again, if they're healthier than everybody else, they could, they could be a three seed with this whole thing. But there's definitely some net differential stuff where you're like, how are they that high up there? Everybody else anyway, as I say that about Houston, I watched them this past week and I went through all the games just trying to get caught up after football. So I was like doing a deep dive on them. They, they got Denver in the rematch. They lost the first game in overtime and those are back to back games, not back to back on the schedule, back to back games within five days in Denver. They blow the lead in New Orleans. They lose to Sacramento on Sunday night and overtime. So there's two overtime losses. I think the officiating is probably the first one in Denver where they'd have some legitimate excuses and I know E-Mai wasn't necessarily happy. But the constant that I've seen in those losses is, hey, we're going to double Durant. It's up to you guys to figure out now what you want to do off of these doubles. And there's probably too many possessions last year for Rockets fans where it ended up with Van Vliet and it was like up to Van Vliet to like, is it going to go in or is it not? But you know, this, this point guard position that you know, feels like every year we have less of these guys that truly understand what comes with that responsibility. And maybe it's nice that we have five guys that can score on the floor. But if there was ever a reminder of what it means to have a point card against how he, I just can't believe that Houston's like, Hey, guess what? They're going to double them again. They're going to double Durant like 30 few and you have to figure out something. And you know, whether it's a men being reluctant to take that over, whether it's shingoon not loving his matchup, you'd think he's ball handling and his vision and his passing that, you know, eventually like you'd want to get out of doubling Durant that hard and shingoon when it ended up burning you. But this isn't even a Houston thing. You can make it about Houston if you want. But just the shift of this game for so many years to get away from that traditional point card and then seeing teams like, like, mean, it would be nice right now. It's, it's Chucky fucking Atkins, you know, I mean, again, like I'm, I'm being a little ridiculous with that name, but there's just nights where I like, I couldn't believe watching the same thing happen to Houston over and over again in those spots and losing those games. We had it. It was opening night. So it was a long time ago. The only time I had Houston in person and reach upper wasn't ready. Then he's got, he's gotten better. Oh yeah. He's doing things. I mean, they were attacking him, you know, mercilessly every time. Well that okay, see opening night. He's going up against those guys, playoff ready defense. I'm watching him going. That was unfair. Yeah, exactly. You felt badly for him. He's improved a lot and they may still fill in, you know, figuring it out and good. It's not, I mean, Kevin's a Justin too, but I mean, Kevin is a superstar who is easy to play with. People can say whatever they want, but I mean, like Kevin will give the ball up. Totally. So I think they, I think they'll continue to improve as the year goes on, but there's still a work in progress. I don't think there's any, any question about that. And it, you know, it's like a lot of teams. I mean, the injuries, that's a whole, I'm sure you've done show. That's a show in itself. What's going on with all the injuries in the league, but you just shake your head and say, boy, if they had friend, friend, the way he played last year, be unbelievable. A man is improved so much. Shangoon, if it's possible to be underrated, be acknowledged as much as he is, is underrated. He's, I mean, he doesn't, he doesn't blow your way with some of the stuff he does. Like he doesn't always look graceful or I think, but he's such an effective player and a man is still improving. I mean, he's dramatic. I think a level better than he was last year. Yeah. It's just a matter of like, are you going to have him initiate stuff if Fred can't come back this year? You know, are they going to be in the second round? And my guess would be they're not, but if you have Durant holding it 30, 35 feet away from the hoop and you've got a defender under him and then a second one shading at him, like one of the great things about KD is he's not necessarily going to force it, but you could see him even in that Pelicans game getting really mad. He was starting to get like really frustrated going like, Hey, look, we've got to have some kind of plan. If the double, if there's, it's a hard double and they're staying with me, we have to have a better plan than you guys wondering if I'm going to try to dribble it from all the way out here because it's just hard for him at that size to get going with that kind of pressure as great as he is. And then there was one play where you could just tell, he's like, I'm not even waiting. I'm just going and then he dunked it. And then it was like, he was almost looking at his own team after the dunk instead of the opposition because it was like, Hey, we've got to figure some of this stuff out. Tasty trade has a suite of probability tools so you can make smarter picks for your portfolio, though it can't help you fill out your NCAA bracket. You can trade stocks, options, futures, and more all in one platform. Tasty trade offers low commissions, including zero commission on stocks, so you can keep more of what you earn. 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And I'd say in that Warriors game last night, like it was some of the bad Palo, like the frustrating possessions where he's trying to figure it out. And they're staggering. Like there was a game against the Knicks and the couple where I felt like Moe's didn't stagger his guys. He staggered them in that third quarter and he was trying. I remember, look, you barely had them, Westbrook and Durant, but that was always kind of the thing where they didn't want to be staggered. Is that something that you remember with different rosters that you had? Where it's like, I understand you two guys want to start and finish together. But the best chance we have, at least to keep up offensively, is you're going to get all the priority looks if you have 12 of your 35 minutes, not with the other guy. And it seems like some teams or coaches are afraid of that or some of the players are like, well, I had, I want my job to be harder out here. No, but you have to. There's no question. I think of all the things, all the challenges you have as an NBA head coach, figuring out a rotation, especially what you're, the rotation, it always matters. But what are you doing with your key one or two guys? And, you know, the modern NBA, what do you do with three? You can't win a championship supposedly unless you have three of them. How do you figure that combination out? Which guys do you have on the floor at the same time? Yeah, I think it's a major, major factor. It's a big sell job to, you know, an individual player and just say, Hey, you're better off. And again, it takes time to do it. And all of you say, Well, this guy's going to be better with the other guy because he doesn't command shots. But for whatever reason, it doesn't work. You know, he's not a guy that can throw it into it and move. And you've got to figure out, you know, how, how, how some guys play better. I mean, even some of the really elite players in the league are really good when they're with the other elite player. And when you say, Okay, now this is your time to shine. Like we got to rest this guy. He's on the bench. Now you can take over the game. And guys aren't capable of doing that. You know, there are some guys that need even to be, you know, excellent players themselves, but they need to be on the player with the other alpha dog to be effective. And they're not real good play. That's why the commodities are those six men like the, you know, going back to the Jamal Crawford and sweet Lou and those guys that, you know, people say like, Well, you know, why do you keep that guy on the bench? If he's so good, right? Because guess what? He can bridge the gap when they're when they're resting the good guy or the good guys, a couple of guys. And he, you know, he can score points. He's good enough to do that himself. So sometimes that guy off the bench or a guy who is content or is able to just not get many shots and not play well when he's on the floor with the good guy, and all of a sudden you're resting one of them. And the guy, you know, the guy kind of takes the game over. So it's a, I think it's a major thing. I think it's a selling point. Orlan has had so many injuries. I really think Jamal does a nice job. That team just seems snake bit. It's like they never have all their guys available. I was impressed with them in Vegas. I am watching tapes in them before and then, and then, you know, right away, Vogniz out. Suggs, it seems to be heard all the time. Paulo for his big strong, Paulo's a footballer. Everybody forgets. Paulo, when he was here in Seattle for Oday, was a quarterback when he was a freshman. Everybody thought he was out of his mind when he said, I'm going to concentrate on basketball. I'm not going to play football anymore. They did this, whatever he was, 6, 6, 6, 7. He was playing with Kyle growing up all the time in AAU and against each other. And he said, that's it. I'm not going to play football anymore. And Oday was one of the best football programs in the country. Lost his six, eight quarterback that everybody said, well, he's going to be a first round draft pick. And, but it's worked out pretty good for him. But he's still figuring out his game. He has like in the first half, in, in Vegas, he was really struggling. And then all of a sudden in the second half, he just started dominating and doing special things. I, I, I like jail and sucks a lot. I, I think they haven't figured Desmond Bain into the lineup was a big thing. Desmond played really well in Vegas. He struggled early in the year. I think they're still figuring out how did they feature Desmond Bain and that group that you're talking about staggering. I mean, when you start going Wagner, Desmond, Suggs and Paulo, that's interesting. How you're going to, who's you're going to start? How you, I mean, not necessarily who you're going to start, but when are you going to sub? How early are you going to sub? When are you going to start bringing guys in? You're clearly going to finish with them. There's no mystery who you're going to finish with, but there's a big mystery in the middle, like 30 minutes of the game. I want to talk about Draymond last night. Interesting, even by Draymond Green standards, there was a play where he, he throws the ball away. It's, it's picked off and then they call a take foul and he immediately after the turnover and I looked at whatever angle I could find. I was like, was somebody grabbed and that's why he's blaming the ref for the turnover. It likely was probably something else that was already lingering in his head and he lays into the ref and he's like, call the foul, call the foul. He said it's six times. They don't tech, they don't give him a tech because he, they're shooting a technical already. So it's almost like they're doing Draymond a favor, which I always, like Jeff Van Gundy nailed it years ago. He was like, the leash that Draymond has is actually longer than any other player. So like the idea that he's targeted, like they're almost, they've built up a tolerance to officiating Draymond where they let him go more than, if other guys did that, they'd be, they'd be getting teased. The things he says and how he says them is unmatched in the league. Don Brooks is trying, Brooks is trying to catch up with him, but he's not there yet. It's not. So then the tech is made off of, off of the take foul again, because I was watching it this morning and then Draymond immediately he's like, I'm not done. And he goes back and he talks to the official, but they go to commercial. So you don't get to see the full part of it. And it seemed like he was a little bit more under control than maybe he would have been. Spencer goes to grab his jersey and he's like, no, no, I got it. I got it. And then he ends up on the bench and then we realized like there's this altercation. He has Kerr, he doesn't come back in the third quarter because he goes in the back and then they go on a huge run. And then Kerr's like, look, and Kerr has had his play the same note all the time, right? Hey, this is our guy. He's helped us win because he knows he can't really go the other way with him because then it turns into something else. So it's like, look, we just accept what it is. And Draymond was like, I had to go in the back and Kerr said I wasn't going to go back to him anyway. It doesn't really matter. I wanted to ask you about this because like you didn't have Rashid during that peak here. Rashid was normal. To me, it was great to me. He was bad on officials even then. But later on, he became, I think the only guys that ever left the bench and I don't want to say it because he's coaching now. JR for sure and Strick may have done it one time. They might be the only two. She was fine with me. Officials, he was unbelievable. But JR and Strick were the only two that I ever had leave the bench. Okay, but you didn't even have peak sheet because I was looking at it again this morning. Not even close. Not even close. 41 texts in 77 games. And then, you know, my whole thing was that I felt like ultimately there's a line with it where it starts to feel selfish. It's like you just kind of want to do this. And when he went to Detroit, it wasn't like a completely different guy. Like he'd still be in the 20s, but 41 is an absurd number. And you know, you had him in his first year in Portland. And I think it was only 11 texts. So we were full of story. Right. But you know, when you have somebody like that, like, I think we both agree, Kerr can't decide to get at the podium one day and just let Dremont have it because he knows there's no point. Like, even if it's the right thing to do and people would agree with me, there's no point. I know my guy and there's no point in doing this. So it's like a bigger picture where I don't know that there's necessarily an answer. I think what I always find frustrating is you can when you see it that it's about to happen. It's like, okay, your main priority is not your team. It's not your teammates. It's not the outcome of the game. It's not the points because sometimes these texts are in huge spots. You just have decided you want to do this. You could make the case that it was a championship in 2016, you know, influenced by this. Literally an NBA championship may have been lost by that. Absolutely. It's a completely fair argument. And I've asked him about it. I remember I had him in Toronto, the All-Star game, and I was like, is there any part of you that ever thinks like, I can be and he was like, no, I can't be and he was defined about it too. Like he wasn't, he wasn't, he was fine. It was, it was a good conversation. He wasn't like worked up because I was challenging him a little bit on it. And he was like, I don't have 70 million. I don't have the contract extension. I don't make a, I don't get any of the stuff. If I go into a game, not like this, that I'm not who I am. And, you know, I, I wasn't necessarily even like saying, Hey, you're wrong because I, because I kind of get that part of it. But I'm just seeing like, as he gets a little bit older here and this team's 500 and there's nights, especially with the defensive matchups and playmaking where they desperately need him. I just, you know, I already know the answer. It's probably going to get worse before I would, I don't know how it's ever going to get better. Well, you know, I always have the conversation with this is Tom Enzo and Kyle's at Colgate is a senior at Colgate and they opened up at Michigan State. So I went out and spent two days with his and always at some point, anytime I'm with is there's five minutes to a Dremont conversation. And he flies into town sometimes like he'll fly. If he's got two days off, he'll go and talk to Dremont. Like it wouldn't surprise me after what happened last night. Isle find time before the big 10 schedule gets going or something like that. You know, and he'll visit with him and it won't be a phone call. I mean, he'll literally go see him. But I mean, I don't want to say deal with the devil. That's not fair. I saw him after I came back from the Michigan State game. We had him and he donated 3.1 million. You guys see the weight room that he put in to Michigan. I figured the present center, I think is what it's called. It's spectacular. And he knows my relationship with him has always been the same kind of like a love hate thing. And I go, man, I got to give me credit like what you did. That was fantastic. But Steve, that was a deal with the devil that was signed X amount of years ago. And there's a lot more good than bad that's come from it. But it's so far down the line now, there's nothing they can do. And I don't want to say because I can't speak for Steve. I don't want to say it doesn't bother Steve that Steve didn't think about it when he went home last night. But I guarantee you, Margo, his wife just said something like, Steve, I mean, what do we why are we talking about? Is this is something new? I mean, why do we even talk about it? It is let's move on. Let's get to the next page. I'm dying to talk to him and Ray Ritter when I get into San Francisco. But that's drama. You know, who else? And I know you're aware of it. Luca walks that technical line himself with the officials and even nights, he doesn't get the text. I just think I can't officials are still humans. The way Luca is with the officials and the times that he spends laying on the floor when he thinks he was filed and it's a five on four at the other end of the floor. But again, you take the good with the bad and dream on's not quite as I don't think he's quite as bad anymore in terms of not playing. Luca will not play for five seconds and just the next defensive possession. They got no chance because he's not even involved and he's still barking at the officials and not concentrating on the defense. Dream on usually plays on. But the things he says to officials and the times at which he gets technical files and for a guy who's intelligent, dream on's very intelligent, for a guy who's intelligent, sometimes when he goes off at a critical time in a game, you just shake your head and say, what is he thinking about right now? Look, we could I could do it all day, you know, and it was it was funny because it was like a big emotional weekend on officiating again. Right. And Mike Pereira, who is become a friend because he lives in Manhattan Beach when he's here doing work. Yeah. And I'll end up sitting next to him at bar and getting some dinner at Slay. And I'm going to have a man. So I really wanted to save when I was going to have a man, but the coach too good and it works too well right now. And I know he's not going to mind, but he can expand on it when I finally have him on the show is we were talking about like officiating and the constant complaint that it's never consistent. And I was like, I've accepted years ago that you're asking for something that can never be consistent to be consistent. So you have to just give up. It's not going to be consistent the way you want it to be consistent. And you get to win every argument by saying, Hey, it should be more consistent. You're like, Yeah, no kidding, but it's not going to happen. And I asked Mike about like his officiating background and he started coaching high school basketball. And because I tell every NFL official or anybody that wants to get into football, I was like the first thing you knew you need to do to become a great football official was officiate basketball, because football is going to feel so slow. And so there's there's a lot of stuff like I have a generational question I want to ask you about here before we say goodbye. But you know, do your point on Luca, I like to go back and watch older games to remind myself of how bad I think some of these arguments are generation against generation. But one thing that stands out is people didn't talk to the officials, you know, and Marcus Smart was upset because he's like, Oh, you know, you go to talk to the official and all I can think of is like, Marcus, I've watched you play your entire career. Like, do you really think the official was like, Oh, hey, cool, Marcus Smart wants to just huddle here for a little bit. And we have a state of the union. And we can go over every call that he thinks because like, here's what I do know watching. Even though there are certain specific issues I have with officiating in the NBA, which maybe I'll get to the overall like, who's right, who's wrong, if we want to start keeping track of like the player that doesn't think he's fouled or the player that thought that there was enough contact, regardless, the officials are more right. So for them to sit there and say, I'm supposed to talk to you after two hours, you've told me you didn't foul anyone, and that you've been fouled every say you've been wrong 15 times tonight, but I'm supposed to stop everything again, so that we can all huddle and like it used to be back in the day, like maybe the superstar would go, Hey, what's going on here, if I'm here, is this that and they would they and then it was just on to the next and now it's like, you know, you're like, are you on a two way and you want to you want five minutes to yourself over here? Like it doesn't, there's no one ever wants to admit that part of the officiating. It's like, these guys get treated like crap all night long by everybody have to talk to everyone. And on the overall keeping track, they're right more than the coaches and the players that are complaining about them every single night. I love to get together with Monty and Joe Crawford, the guys that are doing it now and I mean, the way they evaluate them and everything, but as you well remember, it was so fun in the old days that there wasn't every call wasn't being reviewed on it, like before they even left the building and all that stuff. Those guys, you mess with those guys, they would just go, Okay, and the next call at the other end, when against you, it was good. You guys don't know so much. I miss it so much. That was it. And it was like, no, and they had the latitude, which again, I argue with Monty all the time and that they don't want to, you know, obviously some of the great guys, but they knew if they blew a call and if there was an out of bounds call and you know, in the next couple minutes, they could go the other way with, okay, there was the makeup. There was no question. That's out the window now. I mean, none of that is tolerated. It's so different. But what they put up with from the players and I got to say, some coaches also is is mind boggling. It's so different. And for the most part, these guys do guys and girls, I should say men and women, such a good job. Overall, it's amazing. But the scrutiny that they're under, how every call is reviewed and the supervisors and how they work with them and how people do continue to improve. It's, it's amazing. But boy, I already, when there was two guys, and we used to fight every year at the beginning of the year to be to meeting with the coaches and they'd say, I'd go, you got rid of the guy because he couldn't run two miles anymore. He was 68 years old or something like that. And we got all these young guys with the nice biceps or women in good shape and they can run it two mile and they give beautiful signals. I said, you can put one of those old guys in a wheelchair at half court and they're going to get more calls right just because they know the game. They know the game. They understand, they see stuff. But it's, you know, I always lamented every year, almost without exception, when somebody would move on and would lose a guy and they say, well, he can't cover, he can't get up and down the floor anymore. So I don't care if he can't fight. When I walk out for a game, particularly a playoff game, I want to see that guy or that lady there. You know, I want to see them. I don't want to see one of the, one of the new ones that gives the beautiful signals and runs a nice mile time and everything like that. I want to see the judgment that you used to have from the older, when it was only two officials and, and they were the kings, they could do whatever they wanted to do and really nobody back, you know, nobody said anything to them. It was great. I want to end on this because I've thought about trying to, like one day, create the definitive generational debate, but I know going into the exercise, there's no way I would come to a conclusion where I would get people to change their minds, right? And so, you know, I was watching a Piston Celtics playoff game from the 80s and the clip that I sent out, there were some factors in it that, you know, thinking about it were unfair, but really what I was always focused on, like something that there's a couple NBA coaches that I'm friendly with now will like send clips to each other and we'll go like, look at that. Like there's no help. There's no double. Like their help rules are just, they don't even exist. Like it's just you either have the guy or you don't. And the thing that jumps out at you is like, I think some of the physical stuff in comparison to today's game, like people act like it's this Mad Max version of basketball. And I think that gets overstated because these guys are much bigger and faster and quicker. And I think they're beating on each other and then it comes down to this hand-checking thing. So I'd say advantage like, you know, the current generation, right? The current generation, like maybe that gap of physicality isn't necessarily there. The way everything is packed in, I don't know how anyone could watch basketball from the 80s and 90s and watch today's game and go like, hey, you can talk load management all you want, but it might be just the sheer science of look at how much ground you are covering. Look at what you are running to your cutting your, if there's a pick and roll ball side and the big is the roller, I'm on the baseline and I've got to figure out whether or not I'm going to come over and help against like a 6-10 guy who's already bigger than me. And I've got to somehow figure out how to break up that lob or I have to worry that the guy in the corner is like 37% and my coach actually doesn't want me to help on the roller. And then I've got to show that I might disrupt the lob and then recover all the way over here. The way that they'll blitz, I mean, again, the blitzing thing isn't necessarily new, but I don't know how anyone fair can look at these games separated by 30 or 40 years and not admit that the physical strain of what you're asking to do and I understand nutrition and flights and all that kind of stuff. But I got to tell you, PJ, like watching any of the stuff from back then, I can admire it. I can love it the way I did as a kid, but I have to be honest that it's just you're asking today's player to cover so much more ground. The tracking alone makes it a different game. Without question. And you know, unfortunately, we've lost so many of the guys, but I would love to have had, if we co-hosted a podcast and had guys like John, the guys who were level-headed that aren't going to be overly defensive or something like that. But I'd love to have guys like Havlicek where some of those guys talk about what it would be like to play now, what they would think it would be like to participate or what do they think of today's games because, and rightfully so, some of these guys are very, very, some of the great ones that are still around with this are very defensive about what people say, well, this guy couldn't play in today's game. Yeah, but see, look, like the great ones would figure it out. Without question. You want to sit here and talk about guys throwing fastballs. I'm like, I think Ted Williams, Willie Mays, I think they'd figure it out. Thank you. I'm always defensive of those guys. I wouldn't want to say, oh, Bird wouldn't be able to guard anybody or imagine, couldn't shoot. So therefore, they would figure it out. I'm just asking anybody to be just be honest with what your eyes tell you and going, hey, they bring it across the court, like even in some playoff games, nobody's even really picking you up, nobody's getting your face, nobody's disrupting the first ball action. It's like, nine guys get their foot in the paint. Like you're setting screens on, like somebody catches it on the block and a center setting a screen for you on the block and your only move is to turn left shoulder into the paint and you're like, oh my God, it's like all right here and you're not worried about closing out like on any shooters except for maybe one guy. Yeah. Okay. So we agree on that. Now, here's a point for the older generation because as great as Jalen Brunson is, as great as SGA is, as great as Trey Young's numbers are in his career. The other part where I would ding today's guys is if you officiated these players, the way they're officiated now, I'll admit, like everybody kind of makes the NBA Hall of Fame, but the pro basketball Hall of Fame is what I should call it. There's guys that I think are going to go from like terrific careers to Hall of Fame careers solely because of the benefits of today's officiating. And to throw in now this pivot foot thing, which apparently you can just change your pivot foot. Well, college gave college gave into it. Now we got continuity in college. College rule now is if you've stopped your dribble and you get fouled, you get another step and the officials because it's new or all loving to call it, but they've given in like the NBA's won. Not as continuity and we want to have consistency, so we're going to have continuity. Come on. So as great as Jalen Brunson is, like I have Jalen in a tier above some of the other guys, like look, I've just mentioned SGA. I mean, he is, the MVP may win it again this year, but there's stuff they do today. If they did it in 80 or 90s game expecting, like, you know, if you could play the time travel game, everyone would look at you being like, what did you just try to do? Yeah, you crazy? Yeah, exactly. What are you nuts? Like, we're not getting that. We'd be like trying to do it in high school when you were growing up. It was a travel and it was like, no, no, no one thought to even argue about it. You can't do that. That's ridiculous. You couldn't do that on a playground. It'd be a fight on a playground if you did it and say, that's travel. You can't do that. Yes, you can. That's this is the, these are the conversations we need to do the full. Like, I would really like to dig into all the things that I think are fair, you know, pluses and minuses for both generations, but I can't, every time I throw on something in the 80s, 90s, I just go, hey, look, it's okay to admit, like, they just don't have to move around as much and it's just all clogged up, which actually speaks to like the greatness of a Jordan. It's like, look how clogged that is. Like imagine that guy in today's spacing. You know what, I'll run out. I know we're wrapping. I still laugh in the 70s. I went to, because everybody was talking about the Knicks, are they going to hang a banner and all this nonsense. I went to, I was there in 70, I was undergrad in 70 and forward and then I was there in 73. I was an assistant coach and saw a whole bunch of those games in the finals. You know who was on the bench? Red, Danny Whale and the trainer was next to him and Franky Blushow was like an official score. That was it. Now, now when there's a play, they said they're looking at a second row and there's 11 guys in the second row, 16, they have iPads and they're trying to figure out whether it was, do we challenge, do we challenge or not? I said, I remember, I'm saying, I was sitting there, Dustin Hoffman was the row in front of me, like four seats to the left. Red, Danny Whale and that was it on the bench. Danny Whale had a white Nick warmup top on. Red had his suit on. That was it for suits on the bench and the NBA and they had Willis and Bill Bradley and DeBusher and Clyde and all those guys. And it was like, holy man, is this game changed? Every time I'm in the garden, I think I sit in there watching those Nick games and the playoffs going, wow, have we evolved a little bit? And I'm not complaining. I like, I like when I was a head coach and I like when I was an assistant and that whole bunch, when I went to Portland, I had three assistants. That was it. Dick Carter, Rick Carlisle, Johnny Davis and then that else. What did that change? When did it go from like, here are your three guys to like, we're in the 90s because when I went, there was three guys and you were lucky if you had a trainer and a strength coach and the trainer did everything, booked a travel, you know, if you had a trainer, a strength coach and equipment manager, we flew in a Bocke 111. I think there was 22 seats and there was only two teams in the league that had planes. Detroit had round ball one and we had the Louisiana Pacific plane right then. It is Danny Green now who brokers all the planes. Where do you see the next generation of planes that's coming into the NBA when the current ones, it's time to replace them? It's a new world. It's a new world, right? I love talking to you, man. I love talking to hoops, love talking wherever we go with this. Make sure you check out PJ on ABC. This Christmas, you can celebrate with him with a little Mavs Warriors. We got a whole bunch of Hall of Famers, NBA players, MVP's. We got more accolades for the coaches and the players in that game. The records might not be real good, but I'm like, you know how you write your little notes for a game? I have no room for the notes for these two teams. There's so many rookies of the years, leadin' steals, leadin' points, more Olympic gold medals, future Hall of Famers. It's incredible. It's a great matchup, individually. It also took Cooper like 18 games to figure it out. Maybe 15 games to figure it out. He is... Do you see that? He just turned 19 Sunday. Do you see the set of stats? It's only Kobe and LeBron. He's second or third in virtually every cap. Points, assists, rebounds. There's only two guys that have ever done more. Dwight Howard beat him out in double doubles. The only other guys that have beat him out was Kobe and LeBron. Nobody's done what he's done at the age of 18. It's amazing. Amazing, Cooper. Yeah, I can't wait. He's made that team like appointment viewing, and that's really how I feel about the league now. There's almost no team early on. I mean, look, I could be mean in name of a couple rosters, but I have... There's interest level on almost every single roster for me, especially with how great this rookie class has been. So I can't wait for the holidays. If you were at those Olympic games when the young kids, the select team, and they put Cooper on the select team when he hadn't even played at Duke yet, you saw what he did against that Olympic team before they went to Paris. It was like, even I could figure out five minutes, people said like, well, how's he going to be in the NBA? I said, are you kidding me? The guys on the Olympic team were going, man, this kid's for real. He hadn't even gotten to Duke yet. He's unbelievable how good he is. Unbelievable. I know, and he could have actually been in high school last year too. Oh yeah, exactly. He just turned 19 Sunday. 19 years old. It's absurd. It's fun. It's a lot of fun and always a great visit with you, my man. Thank you. You too brother. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Before we get to live advice, let's check in the Alliance, because we do not have the props up, so Cerule will lead us and give us the scoreboard. Yeah, we're recording this on Tuesday and we're going to have an alliance partly for the Christmas Day game, so the props aren't up yet. So we will have that up Wednesday. It'll be on the DraftKings Sportsbook. It'll be on our socials, so make sure you check it out there, our three-legged Alliance part of A. But I do have our records so far, boys. I am leading the way. I've got two pushes, which is weird. I'm 4-1, 4-1 with two pushes. Kyle is 4-3 and Ryan is 3-4. Ryan on a three game skater here looking to turn it around. So records aren't terrible overall, so we're looking for our first hit in the Alliance, but we'll get there. I check mine. I'm consulting with my guy who's been red hot. Who is your guy? He's just a guy in the crown jewel. I don't want to give too much away, but he's been red hot on DraftKings, so until he fails me, we'll be using his stuff. Yeah, I got arrogant about it. I'll admit. Just give the OG one stuff. Yeah, King of the Corp. Nailed the first couple. You know, the current. All right, so check that out on DraftKings. We'll have that up on socials as well on Wednesday. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life Advice, email addresses, life advice, rr at gmail.com. Kind of regret not doing what we just did. We talked about lemons in a big Meyer lemon phase right now, hoping to buy some fresh ones today. I've been squeezing one into water. It's not because I'm trying to lose weight. I'm actually the heaviest I've been in a while. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing, what the goal is here. Are you a cleanse guy? Do you ever do cleanses? No, but I've thought about a three-day fasting. Like I had a stomach virus one day and was like, well, you already haven't eaten yet today. So you're already a third of the way done. Why not just two more days? I'm afraid I'm going to lose like 12 pounds. And then it's going to take forever. Your doctor told you that. You need to do it, right? And my doctor, I was getting an MRI on this torn ligament and he was like, do you ever thought about like losing a few pounds? Do we already do this? Or do we do it all together? I remember if this was a phone call between you and I or if we did. Yeah, I'll say so. We're together. Kyle seems confused and maybe it was a phone call. I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the pot because I wasn't even sure I wanted to do it. Dude, I'll tell you that. Talk weight. We could do a three-way call if you guys want to talk weight. I mean, if you're just going to do stats, NBA stats, I got nothing, but you guys can always merge the call if we want to talk weight. I got stuff to say off air probably, but... I was just like, look, everything hurts all the time, REM. And I couldn't... I was like, you know, you might need to change things up here. And he was like, have you thought about maybe just losing a few pounds? Because every pound of weight you're carrying is this many pounds. I gave him like a... like, fuck... What? Have you seen me? Yeah, like lose a few pounds? I'm not telling you to lose weight. Just go on the scale and subtract 10. I'm not telling you to talk less. I just need the other host to talk more. So I know I'm probably going to be doing a fast... My stepdad did like a 10-day thing, like 30 pounds. 10 days, dude? Who are you? Come on. I don't know. I couldn't believe it, but he did it like 30 pounds melted right off of him. He got my white ball jazzed up about it. And he was like, you know, it'd be the best way to fast this together. And he looks at me and I'm like, oh man. So I don't know if it'll be January. I was thinking about doing dry January, but like there's a lot of football going on in January. So and then February... Do the pads play off run dry January? Yeah, the other terrible ideas. Maybe April. Maybe we could squeeze it in in April. But I think I should do a month boost free, but it's just... It's getting nice out. You want to drink outside, though. Yeah, I don't know. I think January is out and February is the Super Bowl. So like that has to be out unless we could do like a half month, half month thing. Maybe. Yeah, but why can't you just do post Super Bowl in March? Like 30 days is 30 days, man. Yeah. And then the tournament starts and then I'm back in. Okay. Thanks. I love it. Yeah, that'll be good. I do. No halftime. What kind of cleans do you think? Pats at Broncos, AFC title game. Hey guys. You think I'm not going to crack open a sculpin? Come on. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe my doctor saw those pictures from the Salt Lake show. Angles. That could have been it. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, what the fuck is going on? So I, yeah, I gave him a... He's like, I'm not saying because you're out of shape. I just think it's kind of the Tim Duncan thing. It's not wrong. Imagine if I just shave off like 15 pounds and go, what's going on with him? And it's like pick up basketball. He was that worried about it. It's knees. I haven't ruled it out. I haven't ruled it out. It's not a bad idea at all. I mean, yeah, like, you know, your joints, you know, all that stuff, you know, you look nicer and even your face a little bit, like I thought about that, you know, a face a little puffy and a lot of, you know, a lot of carbs lately. It's like, do I, you know, you cut back. But the problem with the juice thing, though, is like, you just, it's not really like a sustainable thing. Like you just kind of gain that back right when you go back to your normal lifestyle. I believe in the cleansing fast thing. I just haven't done it. There's got to be something good about it charging your body and it starts eating stuff. I like, I haven't looked into a ton of it, but that seems to make sense to me. I just don't think I'm going to do it. Maybe I should. It sounds terrible, but I don't know. We'll see. Can you work out? Probably should. Yeah, I guess you can. Hey, do anything. Kevin Garnett. Well, this is your oyster. Yeah. All right. We're going to get to the life advice emails. You want to talk about the most hated guy to email into the show? Super saver. Just buckle up buddy. Got a ton, huh? No one likes you. People are mad at us for not being meaner, which I think is probably fair. I think it just was kind of an understood like, yeah. He had some self-awareness, though. That was the thing. Like it's, he kind of was like, am I going to alienate people? Do I suck? So at least like he's asking for help. So I'm trying not to be too mean. Right. But it's kind of like somebody's like, I don't like to tip more than 12%. It's like, well, credit his self-awareness. Like nobody's going to take a side or anything. But we have an announcement or at least Saruti just wanted to, by the way, are you rocking an Ohio shirt? No, Lobos. No, Lobos. No, Mexico. Yeah, my guy hooked me up, shouts out to New Mexico using them in my NCA, two-time national champs in my NCA franchise. Oh, that's right. So they reach out to you and send you some gear, huh? Now this guy, yeah, he just hit me up and was like, hey, big fan of the show, big New Mexico guy. He's like, I want to send you some stuff. So yeah. Is it a guy from New Mexico or is it guy that's like, man, give me your address. I'm not sure. Really nice guy. We've been DMing. I think he's involved with some car dealerships. So I don't know. I don't have a lot of answers. Maybe an auxiliary guy. A great gear. Let's see if you can price out some brush cards. Yeah. I'm looking for rain guards, by the way. He told me he was a VW guy too. He listened to the pod and I said I had some VW, so he's excited about that as well. So, you know, it's good stuff. I'm not quite Stanford Steve level yet, but I am, you know, send me your free gear if you want. That would be an all time pivot if you went full Stanford Steve. Because then I would just be like, where is that coming from? Like, oh, Gucci did a crossover with Liverpool. You guys sent me some stuff and they're like, what? Yeah. So, Chalamet, speaking of Liverpool. Yes. Yeah, speaking of Liverpool, our guy SDKid. I don't know who that was before this whole thing happened, but have you guys been like following this at all? Because I've gotten a lot of tweets about the Chalamet thing being like, hey, you were like, this might have been the thing we're most right about all time being me. And, you know, I'm not going to my home and I've been wrong about plenty of things, but like, I was just early on the Chalamet thing. And it's, he is absolutely peeking right now. Like, I don't know if you guys are following what's going on. He's got the Maryship. It feels like a new peak. I didn't even know if this peak was possible. He's re, yeah, he's, he's, there's the second peak that we didn't even know was, it was, was reachable. Plate tectonics, you know, it's like, hey, that mountain's actually higher now. Correct. It's like a volcano just growing even more each time it erupts. Yeah. He had this rap video that like, you would expect it to be terrible and it's not. So basically, if anyone doesn't know, he's got this movie, Marty Supreme coming out, which, which looks really cool to say. I think it's a, it's a safty movie, right? I think, I forget what safty, Benny, which one, no, Benny's in, I think Benny's in the Odyssey movie, the other ones doing this movie. But anyway, so he's got this movie coming out to promote it. He basically did a, did a remix on this like Liverpool rapper who everyone thinks he looked like for a while. He just decided to like, I'm going to do a verse on it. And it was awesome. Like it was like a legitimately very good rap song. The video is super cool. It's only like, you know, I'm probably a minute and a half long. Probably a smart move that way too. Yeah. And they're doing like stuff where he's standing on top of the sphere and Vegas making noises and he's spending like Tom Brady, Marty Supreme gear. Like I don't, I, I mean, the term white boy, the decade has been thrown around. I, I'm not the one to judge that, but the guy is like on an all time run. And even if you don't like the Kardashian thing, which I don't really, it is cool to date Kylie Jenner, right? Like it's, she's hot. Like there's no real, we're not like being around a bush here. Like the guy, I think there's a lot of dudes that would probably take her up on the chance. Pull my arm. Yeah. I'd figure it out. I'd make it work. He's just kind of living every dude's dream. He's like a movie star. He goes to Nick's games. He's a rapper now. He's dating this super hot chick. Like I don't know, other than being like a professional athlete, I don't really know how much better it gets for a guy. And the, and the film guys are like, dude, you guys are so stupid. This is him promoting. Like he's grinding for these promotions. Like he's, he's basically the Tom Cruz of this generation. It's like, he's keeping movie theaters alive. So even like that crowd is they're looking at it through a different lens. Like this is all marketing and it's hitting. So, yeah. Yeah. The good thing about Chalamet too is like, you know, we've accused guys of being like fakers in the past. I'm, I know I'm just like waxing poetic about my guy here. It's like, Hey dude, like give it a break. Yeah. His shit checks out. Like the Nick stuff, you know, he's a ball knower. Like he did. Like he was talking about, he was talking about, somebody asked him an interview years ago, like what his favorite soccer team was. He was like, Oh, it's St. Etienne, which is kind of not obscure club, but a smaller French league club. He starts naming players. I'm like, this guy's just like, he's not just making shit up. Like he knows what he's talking about. And the next thing is not fake. And like people kind of gave him shit because I think I forget what it was at the SAG awards. It was some award where he said like, I want to be the greatest and I don't really care. Like, this is what I want to do. And I want to put it out there and feel like, Oh, that's lame. Like whatever. It's like, nah, man, I kind of nothing that he does seems inauthentic and lame. And it's just like, I don't, I don't know that I've ever seen anyone like that before. So anyway, the rap video is sick. Check it out. Dude, if you get strong, can you imagine? Yeah, that's the only thing he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's hardy. Or he just finds the right tone, like not jack, but he finds the right, like you can see it through a t-shirt and you're like, damn, okay. I just don't know if he has enough frame there. Like when Tom Hardy started being up dudes in chuchitsu and you were like, yeah, but he is, you were like, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I'll make you the problem with hard with, with Tom Holland. He's like, what, five? He's short. Tom Holland, we're not talking about Tom Holland. Dude. Oh, hardy, my bad. Triple A ball. Yeah, I'm about to say we're talking triple A ball here. They're both short. I think, I think Hardy's what, five, seven? Yeah. No. Well, I don't know about that. I think so. I'm pretty sure. Let me look it up. That sounds crazy to me. I, I, hold on. Oh, you know what? Let's leave it on. No, don't even tell us. Cause I don't want guys, I don't want guys that are five seven listening to this podcast, going into fucking Christmas, having a great week. And then this one comes out, we're talking up all these guys. And then we ended on this note where it's like, oh, he's five seven. And then all three of us are like, look, you know what? I'm only five 10s. It's not like I'm, I feel like I can talk about this. Let's not do that to the five seven and under guys. That's fine. That's fair. Let them show me five 10 for the record. Oh, all right. Yeah. Well, that's fine. Hardy's below that. I'll just say that. Okay. Okay. Congrats on Shalamade. No, you were right. Thanks. Yeah, congrats. I never was against him. I was just like, he can't be my 10 when we're rattling off 10s. Not yet. Maybe maybe you'll, there's just no way that Kyle or I are allowed to like him as much as you. I don't care. I'm not one of those guys that's like, hey, I staked my claim and I'm like, I'm no, no, no, no. You know, vented him. Wasn't even about that. Yeah. You've been, I vented him. This is my buddy, Saruti invented Shalamade. What? Yeah. He was the first guy he knew. Although I did bring it up too. Did you guys see the Odyssey trailer? I watched every one I could find. Awesome. It looks really, really fucking cool. Theaters for that one. Maybe Ryan, do yourself a favor. You should see that one in theaters too. I don't know how often you're going. No, I've been going. Yeah. That road scene really got you back on track in the road chase. Yeah. I don't think that that is PTA's like best movie at all. I think you want to talk recency by us on like, how you, how good is Drake May? All right. People trying to say that movie is PTA's best one. Like it's great. I loved it. I love seeing it in the theater. It's not in his top three. There you go. Fine with me. He's top three. You won't. Great road scene. Boogie Nights. There will be blood. Ghost dad. Now that we're going, we're just really off topic. Did you see, was that Tarantino? Paul Dino thing. Was that real? I didn't like it. I can tell you that. I didn't like it either. I got out. I got out. I got out in that movie. I got out immediately. His, his portrayal of that kid in Prisoners is so good. And like you feel so bad for somebody that you also think maybe the reason this guy's kid is missing. All that huge actman stuff. Like that to me is like, hey, there's a bunch of good actors out there. And then there's a little reminder of like what the great ones can do. And I, I was bummed out about all that. And then you're just kind of like, did he do something to him? Although, you know, in this industry where it's so hard that everybody's just super nice to everybody all the time. And it's like, this person's brilliant or this person's brilliant or this script is the most amazing thing of all time. And you're like, is it maybe somebody just not liking somebody was almost refreshing to hear. Because I think generally that industry doesn't, doesn't ever want to be nasty towards anyone else. Because it is kind of a small world and it is so hard. And it's like, you don't want to be some guy who's like, oh, this show sucks and this movie sucks and this director sucks. It's like, yeah, where's your shit? What did he say though? Was it like this would have been the best movie ever if Paul Dana wasn't in it? It was nasty. It was like, what? Yeah, I, I, I hard to disagree. I mean, I respect Tarantino, but that's just an odd, not that I'm not, I think all three of us are, we're fine with a little hate here and there. Like it, you gotta balance things out. I just felt unnecessary and wrong. Look, if something really sucked, I find it refreshing. Yeah, you went on, what was it Zach Bryan? It was like the, you were just like, that song sucks. Yeah, I thought the lyrics are pretty forced on that one. Also not aspiring to be in the country music scene. So it's a little safer, you know, safer. Yeah. Not your lane. I think that ship is sale. I don't think that's going to happen. So don't, don't worry about yourself, you know. I, we're 16 minutes in. This is a really long time. Yeah, anyway, sorry. No, I do that. Our right thing is if it's anyone else's fault, I'm in my own. So we did it together. We had one the other night or we were taping at night and I did it to cause, still feel bad about it. I was like, all right, all right, you know, I gotta eat dinner here or something like that. It was like, I'm the one that's taping. Why don't you tape the ads then guys? Yeah, right. No, no, it was a hundred percent. I called myself out in the moment as I did it. That was funny. It just sounded really bad. And I was like, that's not what you're about. Let's, let's, let's make sure everybody knows. Luckily doing this long enough that I don't think I was going to get offended. Okay. I was going to do some extra ones today because of the holiday, but boy, I don't know. And we would just call this a segment in itself. Addictive to saving. It's hard to express how much I hate this listener who wrote in about half eaten hot dogs. I think he's delusional that his friends get a kick out of it. I bet they egg him on so he continuously makes an ass out of himself. He's missing the fact that he's not in on the joke. He is the joke. I had that feeling. Great example of what Ryan always says, what if everyone did this capitalism would fail because nobody would want to start a business and deal with household customers to operate at this level. Fuck this guy on every level and every way imaginable. Love the show. That, that's probably the best way to summarize the 20 plus emails that we got about that. That guy in there. So I don't know. Yeah. I just wondered if the friend thing, when he said my friends, what do you say, think is performance art? It might just be like, oh my God, look, he's going to do it again. What a fucking idiot. It could have been that. Smokes situation. Instead of like, like, oh man. Wow. That guy always saves a buck. Really incredible. It might just be like, yeah, we'll laugh at this for a couple minutes and then we'll do whatever else we were doing. There's also like factoring in cost. Like, is it worth it to miss an inning or a half an inning? To then go like, I'm going to get back in a line and bring him my supposed stale beer where then I get a half a beer for free. Then if I do it with a hot dog, it's like, okay, what are you actually doing? Now there's another way to look at this. Maybe this guy is so cool and so incredibly well liked that he does this thing that most people would be like, are you seriously going to do that again? And in fact, he checks enough boxes in every other facet of life that they, like, you know, there's usually a weight line. He walks right up. That's the thing. He's checked, he's got friends, he's married, and he said he had a good job. So like, he might be fine in all the other aspects of life. Yeah. You want me to do to take that? A lot of dudes. A lot of dudes. All right. I'm worried my 11 year old son is not cool. 38 year old dad, NBA comp, Blazer, Sean Kemp. I like that. Three boys, oldest of which is 11. He has a lot of oldest child traits. He's kind, hardworking, organized, thoughtful, considerate. Do you guys think I'm like that? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I haven't seen really the notepad how organized, but you have a notepad. That's good. Consider it. I'll consider it definitely, but I'm just, you're saying organized. I don't know. Yeah. All right. Also a bit anxious, high strong. He's a big kid, plays D-line on the football team. The coaches are working with him. He gets a little more aggressive on the field though. My wife and I have noticed that he doesn't have the trademark aloofness of most 11 year old boys. He's always the one initiating hangouts. He's learning texting etiquette and we're trying to teach him that his friends might not always text back right away. And to give them some time before sending a second text, that's going to be a weird conversation with an 11 year old. Hey, just let it breathe, buddy. Just let it breathe. Do you text Tofer? All right. Don't send him a second one until Monday. When he's with his friends, he brings energy and intentionally and is always really excited to see them. This is usually matched by a typical whatever attitude of most 11 year old boys. I realize his thoughtfulness and kindness might be more appreciated once he's in high school or college, but I'm worried that his demeanor isn't terribly compatible with being one of the guys as he enters into middle school. I realize none of you have 11 year olds, but it feels like you're qualified to give insight. Wow, that's a shocker. Thanks, I think. Yeah. Obviously we can approach this using the same wording as they did in the subject line. The motivation is for him to make and keep friends as he enters into what can sometimes be a roller coaster like time of life. What do you guys think is the best way to help him out in this area or are we overreacting? The first thing I'm asking here though is, does he kind of have friends and maybe isn't the coolest in the friend group? Because that's what it sounds like. Yeah, everybody needs those guys too. Yeah. The other extreme is like, there's no one to even text. You know, he's not on any teams. No one, like he's not showing up as the guy that's more friendly. As opposed to maybe this one hit way too close to home with Steve. But I'd have to guess that like the fact that you have somebody that has like a friend group is like, I would worry about this way more if it was, there is he's 11, he's on teams and nobody ever is talking to him because there's also that. Yeah. And sometimes dudes like the friend group that you're in, like, not that you're like a super latecomer, but some dudes could have been like gone to summer camp before you guys even went to school together or something. And you're like, you know, they're just hanging out anyway. It's not anything wrong with you. They're just like, they already got their own thing. So maybe he has to like sort of get in where he fits in. So the other thing I was going to say is like, they're 11. You might be able to like, not supervise a hang, but like, if they're in the living room, they're not going to be like, dad, don't even be near us. Like you might be able to just see like how he is with the dudes, unless he doesn't know. Not like sit down and play a game of Mario Kart with him, but like, you know, be an ear shot and be like, is he saying some loser shit right now? Or am I just maybe overreacting helicopter pyramid? I don't know. Yeah. I was saying you get a Monday morning quarterback, you're 11 year old, so you're like, you shouldn't have said this. Like you should have went the other way out. Like, I don't know. That's also kind of weird. Don't tickle them, dude. Don't tickle them. I always just remember this one thing that I think my mother-in-law said this about about like raising kids is like your peers will let them know. Like the kid has to just like, they learn their boundaries. Like they kind of, I know it sucks to see and like, I'm going to probably go through as a parent at some point too. And you're like, when your kid gets disappointed or sad or let down by a friend or something happens and it sucks to see, but like your kids kind of have to go through that stuff to know what the boundaries are. And 11 is still really young where you're still, yeah, you're like, you still kind of need to figure out who you are as a person and like who you even want, what qualities you want and friends and who you want to hang out with. So I, you know, I would just lay out. Like I just don't, I don't, I think your job, unless like the kid is being like bullied or there's something like extra curriculum that's out and shouldn't be going down. Yeah. Like I just think you kind of just got to let it run its course. There's a lot of game left. Yeah. Totally. And like I do think like being raising like a kid growing up and figuring out what their boundaries are, that's an important part of adolescence and childhood. And that's how you learn like what you're supposed to do in social settings. Damn dude. Well said. Yeah. I said, hey, I mean, listen, I am a parent. What's up as a father? You're fucking ready. As a father. Tell you that much. You know, this is taking some notes over the years, but yeah. So that's, but I get, I imagine that's hard. I know that's probably hard to like when you're seeing this unfold as a parent, like, that's not going to fly. Like, should I say something? I know that's hard to like actually hold your tongue, but that's probably the best way to do it. That's pretty good. I also wonder if he's the oldest of three. Does the parent like, is our email really cool? Was he cool growing up? Sounds like it. Yeah. It sounds like he's, he's picking up on a few things that maybe a not as cool parent would just be oblivious to. So he's picking up on little things, but are the younger brothers like giving him a hard time? Is the middle guy the coolest? Which is always like a weird dynamic. Because it's just like with three boys, it's like, you can't, you can't have that happen, but it inevitably is going to happen. The oldest isn't always going to be the coolest. There's something I was thinking about and it sounds like it's just kind of like you're worried about entering into a danger zone. So it's not like he's not, again, to the original point, he's not having zero contact with his peers. And Surya's line about the peers thing is so perfect. So I'm not going to stay in this too much longer, but I didn't know if there's something that dad could do where it's like, you were talking about the supervised hang. Could you take him to an NBA game like him and three of the guys and kind of see how it goes? Tell him like, hey, don't sit next to me. Like make sure you sit next to your buddies and then you don't sit next to your dad or, you know, like that's what a cool guy would do. You know, I don't know if there's some different observations there where you would get a better understanding of how he fits in. Or if you provide access to something really cool, do his friends maybe look at him a little bit differently of like, hey, that's that's so cool. Dad was able to get us those tickets or whatever. And then maybe it raises your kids stock a bit, even if it feels artificial or crafted or whatever. I like that. Maybe. Look inward, dude. What kind of snacks do you land out? You handing out unsalted trail mix or like, what are we got going on? Like, are there gushers out at your crib? Like what do you, what can they expect? You know, because I can tell you which houses we wanted to go to as kids. And I can tell you first and foremost, fruit by the foot with the ball, right? Based on the health food situation at my house. Grape nuts. I remember one of my friends just being like, I don't want to go to your house. And I was like, no, we have a full baseball field. Like, let's go. He's like, there's never anything to eat there. And it all sucks. And it like crushed me. And I was like, he's right. But then I would go to his house and I would eat eggos in the morning and his dad would come out and be like, oh, I'm paying for you too. And I'd be like, oh, hey. Yeah. So there's a flip side. How's it, how's it going? Gotta say I haven't. Suck. Because he was just like the mom didn't care. The kid didn't care. I'm his friend sleeping over and I'd always wake up super early and I'd be like, oh, fucking eggos, let's go. And then I'd be sitting. Wait, you would just walk upstairs alone and just make an eggos in somebody else's house? I was over there all the time. Yeah. It wasn't, but the dad always let you know that you were on his tab. One o'clock rolls around and tell your fucking friend to go home too. Go home, pay for your food too. I'm telling you to tell your friend to go home. Yeah. Yeah. Then you always kind of want to be like, you're kind of the guy that presents himself as the rich guy in town. So you're going to haggle over a fucking dollar ego here. Mr. Jag. Super saver. We had a buddy who was doing it just to make you feel like it was the routine. It's what the routine was. See, a hundred percent wanted you eating the eggos. He just wanted you. He was a fucking boss. Yeah. I follow a guy on Instagram who was like, his whole shtick is like your friend's dad who's like, who ribs you for being over his house too much and really hits home. I'll see if I can send it to you right because it's good. His dad off me. I was over there all the time. Off that though, we had a buddy growing up who like for some reason just would never tell his dad or really his parents, mostly his dad that he would invite people over. So we would just show up at his house and be like, what are you doing here? It's like, oh, hey, you know, so-and-so invited me over and he's like, okay. And like, what are you supposed to do? Like, all right, my parents just dropped me off. I don't have a ride back. So I guess I'm here. I can walk home. But it's like, this was like, this happened multiple times. Like, guy, can you just at least give your parents the heads up that we're coming over? Big non-confrontational friend. You got there. Let it go. Yeah. But I kind of loved that, that kid was just taking over the entire scene on him. Because like we had another kid a couple of years later than that. It was like eighth grade into freshman year of high school where everybody was just going over his house every single weekend for whatever reason. It just turned into like, hey, we can go to his house. And it's not like we were even doing anything wrong. We're staying up, not sleeping, playing RC car on Nintendo, never sleeping, getting yelled at. But what would happen is if you weren't there that one weekend and something went wrong, then you were blamed for what went wrong. And the dad would just lay into you the next time that you were there. And it was pretty weird that you started to even realize it like 13 or 14 years old. You're like, I just got to take it and then not listen to this guy because he's wrong. And he's just going to be like, were you here the last time when this happened? Because all the guys said, and then you didn't want to not be there any of the weekends because you were like, something's going to go wrong. And then I'm going to get blamed for it just by attendance. Now you're a light bulb guy. Yeah, you smashed the light bulb. You were in here. But it was awesome. Kind of getting to that point of like, that realization of like 14, you're like, hey, you know what? I might not have to listen to this guy. I don't live here. I know he's a man and he's big and I'm a kid. And but I don't, I don't know if I'm going to. What's he going to do about it? Yeah. Yeah. Like at 11, you got me, man. 11, you're in my head. I'm freaked out. I'm scared of you. The whole thing. I'm like 14. I don't think then he used to have a brother would come down and tidy whiteies and tell us who's going to beat us up with all this karate shit that he supposedly knew. And, you know, he had, he had man hair and he was in a band. So I mean, we were kind of like afraid of him. But then we were like, hey, is there any chances brothers like full of shit? Yeah. Is there any chance like one of us? 100% for Tiger. Yeah. Wasn't going to be me, but one of the other guys maybe. Stoker in the flames. Like one day one of us got to do something. Then you'd run into the guy like after high school a couple years later and you're just like, hey man, what's going on? Did you get that brown belt yet? Yeah. You still, still up at that dojo? Did you make that bite? Okay. Last one. Should I accept a free car that has my sister's face on it? This is different. Man, what? 23 year old in the Southeast 6, 2, 2, 10, no gym stats. I do dumbbells instead of benching because of shoulder injuries, pickup comp, Yusuf Nurkic, this guy's beasting on people. Here's the situation. I worked for my sister's business and I drive a very old car in its last legs. I've been thinking about upgrading my sister overheard and said that if I want a company car, she'll get me one, but it'll have her picture and the office number on it. Realtor, interior design, only fans? No. In this circumstance, I would have no car expense because the business would pay the lease and the insurance. I was planning on trading my car in for something where I would pay 5K out of pocket and it would still not be a very new car. This would give me a brand new car and save money, but as a single guy in my 20s, I can't imagine what it'll do to my social life. Imagine driving to a date in a car with your sister's face on it. What do you think? If I do it, then it'll be pretty awesome financially for me for the two year lease. I say for a nice car after and could make the dating life harder. What would you do with my shoes? This is a legit dilemma. Do you have any girlfriend prospects? You want to just take it a jump on maybe? Yeah, could you be aware of the transaction? I don't think I would considering everything that he told me. I don't think I would, but that's me. I met him when he had his own car. Yeah. That's my younger brain working saying I'm weighing these things and I don't think I'd want to do that unless you're like, I could just do this for a couple of months, save whatever, three, four months of no car shit, but it sounds like it's car paid off. No. How old was he? He said mid 20s, I think. I think you're fine, man. 23, he's 23. I would take it. I mean, here's the thing. There is the facts. If you're going on, yeah, it's probably on the side door. Right on the side door, is it a whole car wrap? Well, if it's on the hood, is that different? Totally. I don't know. That probably would be different. I mean, your sister's, her face is on the car. Does it really matter if it's on the door or the hood? Well, is it like the size of those little town vehicles you see when you just get the seal of the town, like right on the passenger side door? Yeah, what's the point? Yeah, I guess. You can't negotiate with your sister about what goes on this car. Like, can you say, hey, can it knock your face? And if it has to be your face, can we strategically put it somewhere where it's not going to make me look like an idiot? Can I get a magnet one? Yeah, yeah, I got a terrible idea. Like, you know. Does the business matter? Because if it's like, hey, how come you do catering in your faces on the company car? It seems kind of selfish. When you think of that, can we put some prosciutto on there with a melon or something? With the product on. Yeah. If it's as it stands, though, I don't think I would do it. If I, I think I was really concerned about getting dates back there. Yeah, I think I was kind of concerned about it. I think, you know, but you know, like, I don't know. I guess, yeah, this was like, can you just save money? You have to show out the car. Like this date, can you finally bring the car out? You know, it doesn't have to be the first, second, third date. You know, fifth date, you kind of are comfortable with each other. She's probably like, if she likes, she's trying to leave you for one little thing like that. I don't know. Yeah. And like, what town you're in? If you were in New York City and I'm like, you're out in the wild trying to go on dates, and granted, you wouldn't need a car necessarily in New York City. But if you were in, there's certain cities where I would go, there's no point. Like the girls not going to understand Southeast, the American Southwest. I think they'd be Albuquerque, you do well. Provo. Some girls might think it's funny too. Well, there are going to be some girls that are going to think it's funny. The best thing about this is, look, I wouldn't want to do it. But if you guys are making me feel crazy. Right. If you own it, you're kind of the man. Like, if you're so self-assured and, you know, women do like confidence, and you just go, yeah, what's up? My sister's face is on my car. Helping my sister out. You know, this is the plan. I get a two-year lease, not, I don't have a car note, and then maybe a sweet little mustang in two years. Really into helping my family, just driving this around everywhere, you know, trying to get the word out. Yeah. You know, she's a good kid. She's a good kid. She needs, you know, she needs all the help she can get. I'm happy to do it. I think you do it. Kyle, I feel like you're talking yourself into the yes. There's so many ways you could play this off, is you being a good guy or you being funny or whatever that like, I think the financial benefit sounds like, you know, five grand plus the car payment. Like, sounds like you could use that money. I don't know. I just remember the feeling of liking my car, and it's fucking awesome when you like your car. That's the one thing. Especially as a younger dude. It's up to you. If you're going to be self-conscious about it, you're never going to be able to sell it. Like, I'm immediately thinking about the list of my friends in college who would pull this off and it would somehow work and it would be awesome. Yeah. It's always like the hot friend though. It's always like the guy who's like, you know, he has never, he never has problems with girls. He's always dating somebody and he has like, it was like the, I remember like the friend in the group who like first wore like pink for the first time. You're like, oh yeah, of course he would, he would pull that off and then everyone else starts wearing pink and it's like, oh yeah, okay, this kind of works. This is back on. I definitely wasn't the first guy. Definitely wasn't the first guy. I was not. I know. I did wear a white suit. Definitely talk shit about that guy and then I don't know. A year and a half later, there I was. Thomas. I can see that. Cuff links. The pink dress shirt thing was huge in the early 2000s. Not 201 or 2001, I should say. 201. I don't know why I did it that way. Maybe just talk about the Odyssey. I hope you do it. I hope you do it because I do think the girl that gets it is like such a keeper alert. Just think about that. Like the girl that's like, could you date a girl who had her brother's face on his car? Now we would just go as men. How hot is she? And if she was hot and be like, I'll fucking polish that thing every week. Because I don't care about your car if I'm attracted to you. So. But like in reality though, just really quickly. If the one worry is just meeting girls, when is this going to bite? Probably 1A, yeah. Yeah. But when is it? Yeah, like it's not. It's up to you to not have to be the first impression. Right. Yeah. Because most of the time you'd be meeting somebody, if you live in a populated area, hey, we're going to go here or whatever, set the vibe and then I'd say drop it off with valet and then have her see it like the second or third time. Be like, this is my car and that's my sister. Yep. Man, I also think in mid-20s, not having to pay that car money was pretty sick. I mean, I was doing the bus for a while there, but then once I had the car payments, it was like. Next size tax. God damn. Didn't I already pay for this? Really? Son of a bitch. So that would be cool not to have to do that. All right, that's a long show. Want to do that for you. Christmas week. Next week, Monday, Friday, correct? Yes. Monday, Friday. You might have a fun little idea for Monday. I think we have a great idea. I don't think it's a fun little idea. I think it's an incredible NFL idea that we will be doing on Monday's pod as we are a week out from wrapping up the NFL regular season. I think it works out well. I think it was looking at the Slater Games and looking at, I think we needed to do something to juice that Monday a little bit. So let's do that. Thanks Kyle. Thanks to Saruti. Thanks to everybody that works on the show. Everybody celebrating Christmas enjoys the time that they'll have with their family. And like I said, we'll be back next Monday. So please subscribe. Ryan Rosillo show, Arsenal Network.