EP 66: Cesar, His Side of the Story

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts in the Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. Well, welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the room. You can't. We have crying puppies in the background today. You made a horrible decision and bought two more dogs. I went to like animal kingdom in here. So the place that I went to to look at dogs, they said they were $700 each. I was like, I can do that. Not a big deal. When we get there, those fucking dogs were sold. Oh, these ones were like $1,700 each. Yeah. And I made the mistake to bring my daughter with me and fucking once she's seen them, it's like, yeah, it's a lot of money for a dog. Yeah, I should have just got on fucking Craigslist. Is Craigslist still a thing? Like a humane society? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of dogs over there. Kaylee wanted to love them. So. Well, there's like 800 fucking animals in this house now. Yeah. Fish and gerbils and cats and that's only for sexual preferences. Yeah. Like a Richard Greer thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, supposedly, I mean, who knows. Richard, if we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Don't do it. Yeah, I've always pictured that rumor as like somebody who just thought he was like a piece of shit. And they were like, yeah, I got six gerbils under that. And they just ran like it just ran with it. That's like, yeah. Hater, dude. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, um, I don't. Do you guys watch any comedy at all? Do you watch Tom Segura? Oh, I love Tom Segura. He has that bit about his dad saying that Tommy Lee Jones was gay for like 30 years. He was like, so for every person that I ever ran across from like from fucking the fugitive to no country for old men, I told him Tommy Lee Jones was gay. And he was like, until I got like up in the realm of Hollywood and stuff. And he's like, I was interacting with somebody who knew him. He was like, yeah, you know, that guy's gay. And he was like, no, maybe. Either way. It's like, no, he's not gay. He's like, who told you that? He's like, my dad. Yeah, my dad just said. In fact, he was like, no, he was like, no, he's not. He was like, so he called his dad. He said, dad, why did you tell me Tommy Lee Jones was gay? And he goes, I don't know. I just thought he was. That's fun stuff to do. They're just like, say shit. Yeah. Just say stuff and see what takes on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, welcome back everybody to another episode of two addicts and a moron. And today we have a special guest following up on the very last guest that we had. The fiance of the young lady that was here last week. It's my love. Ladies and gentlemen, Cesar is in the house. What's up, dude? Nice to meet you all. Hey, he is so nervous right now. Yeah. You feel the tension? Yeah. You feel it. I'm always quiet. It's kind of how I was in. I know, dude. Well, we're just gonna be in here chopping it up, man, but you have a. Not maybe not such a story. I mean, I'm sure you have a story, but the. I think the, um, the perspective that you bring not only as being the fiance and a normie of someone who's in recovery, but you worked in recovery and you work in mental health and you work. I mean, there's a lot of. A lot of cool stuff that can bridge to what we do here. For sure. And after our last podcast, we sat around and talked a lot about men, mental health, you know, that seems to be a hot topic. We brought it up on here a few times, um, you know, with men having the thing where it's like, dude, just got to bottle that shit up. Yeah. You feel something get rid of it. But yeah, shut it, shut it off. And, you know, not the most healthy thing and probably why society is a little bit of the way that it is right now is for that, you know. So, um, tell us a little bit about yourself, man. Like what, what's your background in this? What? Oh, uh, you know, I'm like everyone, you know, I have my own struggles with, you know, mental health stuff. Uh, thankfully I'm in a great place now. You know, I've always had a great support system. Um, really loving family. Uh, so all, you know, checks all the boxes. Someone, you know, you wouldn't think that someone like that, you know, why, why are you so depressed? Why do you have anything like that going on your life? Um, you have, you know, you're all, all, all things good, all things on the up, but I think a lot of that came from just like, um, being like comparing myself to other people. And then I was like, well, I mean, I feel like this feel really bad. And then I felt bad that I was feeling bad. That makes sense. No, 100%. And, you know, I have a, you know, awesome older brother. Uh, and he always, you know, we, I mean, my sister called him the golden child, but like, uh, can do no wrong. Uh, but really like he's an amazing role model for me. And I always compared myself to him. Right. And so I always felt like I wasn't measuring up coming up short. And I was like, I'm never going to be as good as him. And so like, it's a lot of negative self-talk from a very early age. Um, you know, I have a twin brother, um, fraternal twins. Um, so we don't look alike, but, uh, he's special needs. Um, never really diagnosed with anything from a doctor, but that made me, you know, that's something I've had my whole life, you know, knowing how my brother is. Uh, it was just very heavy. And I think that's like a toll on me. Like I had like, I did go to therapy at one point and they said I had like a survivor's guilt, you know, like I'm living my life, uh, normal, normal. Right. And then he has, he's, he has a lot of things that he's not going to experience. Um, so I think a lot of that really just weighed on me and I have a, had a lot of stuff like that. You know, as guys, I think we always put ourselves like in a position where like, I have to do this. Like I have to be the one pushing things forward and, uh, I can't fall to her. I can't fall. I can't let people see that I'm weak or I got to be the strong one. And so you put enough weight on your shoulders. You're going to fucking crumble. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of that was. Um, but as I like tried to get better on my own, you know, go into therapy, uh, listen to the music or, you know, just people that are trying to be positive. Um, trying to reframe my mind into, uh, you know, getting out of that negative way of thinking made me want to do something that helped others. And so that's what pushed me into like working in the mental health field. So what do you do in the mental health field specifically? So at the time I was just, uh, I was working at a treatment center, um, for, you know, substance abuse, mental health, um, men, women. Yeah. Men, men, women, it was just, it was, uh, you know, uh, residential treatment center. Um, nice, you know, lots of land out there, you know, like 70 something acres of land. Um, not locked down facility, very, uh, laid back. Um, and I was just working as a tech, uh, worked my way up into like a, you know, a shift lead position over there. Um, and it was just, you know, boots on the ground kind of thing. Right. Like, uh, trying to help people get through their, you know, worst days of their life while they're in treatment for, you know, 90 plus days or what. Were you a tech at first? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I went to rehab, like I always say the techs there, looking like got me through the days and every, like we had different techs and every single one of the techs helped me in some kind of way. Cause my first week was a fucking cry fest. Yeah. Like not being, being able to see my daughter, not being able to talk to my daughter, being away from my daughter and I'm coming off of drugs for 10 years. And, um, they, they really like, they got it. They understood. And so yeah, I think techs and rehabs are so vital to rehabs. And there's, there's something to be said whenever, like sometimes they wouldn't even talk, they would just listen and just listen to me cry or fucking, you know, and, and just say, Hey, it's, it's going to get better. It's going to get better. I found that like in my time working there that sometimes people just need to get that shit out. And, you know, like you said earlier, right? Like as, as, especially as men were told to like push it down and don't let that shit bubble up. And when you're trying to like work through some stuff, you need to process it and you can't process it if you're shoving it down. You got to, and the problem with that is, you know, why, why in treatment, it's a good thing to, at least you're there because you're able to be in a safe environment, um, where you're, uh, able to let that shit in, like kind of explode out and you're able to process that with, with your, your peers, with the techs, with your therapists, um, anyone else you come in contact with it, then you're able to work through it so that it doesn't happen again, or, uh, you're able to mitigate it from happening to such a large extent where you're, you're going out to self medicating or finding whatever is to make you not feel that stuff anymore. Yeah. Well, that's where the substance abuse starts to happen, right? When you're left to your own devices and you're like, I don't know how to fucking deal with this shit. I'm going to move to this drug or whatever, but, uh, uh, just a kind of a side note because I'm a normie in the recovery world. Yeah. Right. What's that like being like working in rehab as a tech, a boots on the ground guy. Yeah. And you got to probably develop a little bit of credibility because you don't do the substance or you don't have the issues that they had with the substance. Right. Like, I, well, was that difficult for you to kind of overcome coming in? I think, I think, um, that was the hardest thing for me, uh, to develop the credibility aspect, right? Like, um, because I struggled with my own like mental stuff, I was able to, you know, uh, relate on that level, but I never, I've never picked up a drug or alcohol. It's never smoked. I've never done anything. And so whenever, never. No. Wow. Um, and so it scared me. But like, uh, but not even beforehand, right? Like when, when I worked with, uh, uh, I used to work with kids and I'm working with kids now, but like in high school and she never did anything. No, I was, I was always, uh, the, you know, DD or I would just hang out at my house by myself. So you got the X's on the hands, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. I identify like with the, with the straight edge movements. Yeah. And so, um, but my credibility was, was, uh, you know, non-existent with, you know, drugs and alcohol, but because I had my own struggles with, with mental health stuff and depression, anxiety, I was able to talk to the, to the clients and be like, well, like I, I have that. I understand where you're coming from feeling that negativity. Obviously they had a lot of trauma as well. Right. But I was able to be like, I didn't do this and this is what I did instead. Um, I identified with music. Um, I threw myself into hobbies is what, was what I did. Um, and so I would try to, you know, what do you like to do outside of drugs? Yeah. You know, and then be like, I like going to shows. It's like, what can go to shows? Go to movies, do stuff with people you love. Um, that's where I was able to connect with them. Um, and then me being able to empathize with everything, that's where they were like, okay, like this guy's legit. He's not just, uh, just because he hadn't done it. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't mean he doesn't. I mean, I think that's what you're kind of saying is it's not really about what you've done. It's about the effort that you're willing to give someone. Yeah. Like, you know, we always said, like, you know, you meet people where they're at. Yeah. And I would come in and I would see, you know, uh, whether it was someone that was, you know, 18 years old or someone that was 65 years old, like what life experience have you had that has put you into this position to be in this building? And then just talked, just listened and that, that's what built my credibility with the clients because then as after I started, you know, new, you know, clients, you know, come in and out, people would be able to be like, oh, yeah, he's, he's good. Like he's, he's, he's going to listen to you. He's going to help you out. And then so it's a snowball effect into, to helping everyone else, um, see that I'm here for y'all, not here for some paycheck that, you know, anyone that works in recovery knows you're not making shit for money. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, um, you told me that you bridge into working with autism and autistic children. Right. So I have, I have a theory about autism. I think we probably all have a little bit of it. Oh yeah. It's a spectrum. Yeah. That's, yeah, it's like, it's a spectrum for a reason. If we weren't on it somewhere, it's not a spectrum. Right. So, uh, we've had a few people come in here and say that they were diagnosed autistic as adults, you know, going through the recovery system. I work with a lady, same thing. She was having, she was going to therapy and trying to figure stuff out on her own. And, um, they were like, you're autistic. Like you, you have autism, you know, are you working with adults in this too? No, it's, it's a purely early intervention, working with, with, uh, you know, kids like, you know, 18 months to like nine, nine years old, 10 years old. Okay. Um, man, what a, you work at behavior management. Over to you. Where I work for a place called action behavior centers. Okay. That's where that's where a destiny worked there. Oh, really cool. Yeah. She worked at the one right. There's one like four minutes from here. They got, they got places that pop it up everywhere. Yeah. But yeah, it's, uh, work, working with a lot of kids and it's, it's quite a change of pace from going from working in a treatment center where, you know, sometimes you could be running around the property, you know, right? Someone or like, are you just listening to someone talk about their day or, uh, telling their, you know, their life story. And then you go in, you know, I lay, I leave there and, uh, I'm working with kids that are, they just don't, it's very similar in sense. Like they, like when you go to a treatment center, they don't have a lot of the skills to like cope with their, with their stuff. Yeah. And then when you go, you know, when you're working with these kids, they don't know how to articulate what they're feeling, why they're upset, why they lash out or verbalize it. Like, yeah, in some cases they can't, they, they're nonverbal and I think that's also goes into like why those other behaviors happen because they, they can't explain. They're not able to communicate. And so they're just like, ah, yeah, dude. It's like, um, I've always said this, but it's, it's like, uh, I, some of the guys with babies a lot, like I'm talking like little tiny babies, because if you think about it, they don't know how to communicate. Yeah. Right. They're like, and I think about this. I'm like, I know it sucks when my leg is asleep. Like that sucks. It fucking hurts, but I can like tell you, yeah, why are you limping? Dude, my leg hurts. A baby can't do that shit. Like the only thing they could do is be like, man, you're like, I said you, I fucking change your diaper. I did everything. And they're like, my fucking arm hurts. I don't know why, you know, but it's just going on in their head. So I, I mean, for that, it feels like a little bit of the same, right? Yeah. They don't know how to get it out of them. And how, how do you go about trying to pull that out? A lot of times really, it's just, you're kind of just watching them and seeing what they're trying to do, you know, some things like, like, like pointing, right? Yeah. Uh, a lot of times like the kids will, there'll be something on the fridge that they want, right? And you walk them over there and they're like, are you hungry? You know, you just kind of grab stuff. You're like, is this, you want this, you want this, you want this. And then they're like, they'll scream at you. And I'm like, all right, let's all pick them up. If I can, if they're, you know, of age that they can pick them up. Um, we can't pick them up after like, they're like five. Yeah. Um, but, uh, I'll, uh, do you want this? And then eventually you'll get to what they want and then gravy. They're all, they're all chilling. Yeah. Um, I guess it's kind of like if, if I spoke a different language than what you did. Yeah. Like how are we going to communicate? Right? Yeah. A lot of fucking pointing and a lot of fucking a lot of hands, making sure that you're like, I don't know what the fuck. Yeah. It doesn't matter what you're telling me. I don't fucking know what you're saying. Yeah. Is it this? Is it this? Is it this? I got a theory. So when I was growing up, some 45, you're my age. Yeah. How old are you? 28. Okay. So when we were growing up, there was no such thing as autism. Right. Maybe there was, but it was, you were either a special ed or you were like, they, uh, and when I went to school, they had special ed classes and then they had everybody else. Right. Now there were some classes that we called resource where like he wasn't as quick learning, but he wasn't on any kind of spectrum back then. Right. It was special ed and there was everybody else. I have a theory and I know that this is like a big theory for a lot of people that the medications and stuff that, uh, the vaccines that they have us do. Sure. Changes people at a very young age. And I believe, and I've talked to a lot of parents who have kids that are autistic that say my kid was never autistic at one and two and three years old, but whenever they started getting these vaccines and shots. They became autistic in some kind of way. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like you're like, I know it's a, it's a conspiracy theory. Yeah. That's a, that's a hot topic. It's some stuff that people would have to definitely do some research into and like, you know, actually have like nothing. The hard thing with that is like, you have to have a, like what's your control demographic and what's your, you know, what's the one you're actually testing? Um, cause I don't remember any kids when I was growing up. That was nonverbal, right? Like if you were in the classes that we were in, there was no such thing as nonverbal. Yeah. Right. And I remember the kids that were special ed and like they were not just nonverbal. They needed more help than anybody. Yeah. Right. So I just don't, I don't, I didn't grow up with anybody like that, but now it seems like damn near every kid has some kind of autism or autistic or something. Right. Like we had ADHD. Yeah. Right. And I think, and I'm a big believer that everybody has some kind of ADD. Right. But we just didn't have that growing up. So when I hear it now, I'm like, man, there's something that changed. I think for me, at least I think that's, uh, I don't know what the, the term for it is, but it's like, um, it's going to be a really weird example. But like, you know, like when you, you may have never seen like a certain car, but then you get that car and now you start seeing it everywhere. Yeah. I think a lot of that is like, you know, we, we have everybody in one or two boxes. You know, like, like you had back then, right? You had, you're either special ed or you're, you know, normal. Right. Right. And when people were started doing more research, like, oh, like there's other, you know, sub, you know, uh, category, right? You know, someone's autistic. They have, uh, it was like Asperger's syndrome, which I think is now just part of the autism spectrum. But, um, back then, you know, you had that. And so you're, you're, you're put in one or two boxes. It's harder to see that. And you know, you just clump everybody together. And then as, as labels came out and you're able to categorize people differently. Well, you start to get an application too. Yeah. Like over time, it's, I mean, it's the same thing with a drug addiction. Like so taboo when I was a kid, like, don't do drugs and all that, you know, and that's what, but now as time is ticking on, it's like, this is, there's this bigger, there sub genres of it. And there's, I mean, it's, it's just like anything else, man. Every human being is completely different. And that's why, like, I was not a good student at all. Like I was, I was, I wanted to make everybody laugh in class, but there were subjects that I was in, like I was, I aced history because I was just into it. Like I've, but a story, man. But then like, as I got later, I was like, of course, like everybody learns different. And everybody learns, like, of course, you're going to be ADHD in math. If you don't give a shit about the numbers there in front of you, right? Of course, you're going to fail history. If you don't give a fuck about George Washington, you know, like, if you don't give it, like everybody is going to be on the spectrum of learning. Now, that's why I think there needs to be different, like educational, like formats for, and I know that'd be insanely hard to do. You know, there's, there's, I think there's definitely ways to do that because I, I'm someone that thinks like that were, you know, if, uh, I think there's a quote by like Einstein back in the day where he was like, if you, you look at everybody the same way, like that. Yeah. And you put him in a certain, like we're trying to, you put him in a box, right? Like you, you take a fish, throw the climate tree and you can't, you're stupid. Yeah. Something like that, right? That's kind of, I don't know the quote exactly, but if something like that, but, um, if you were to take kids and put them in like what they excel at, you know, then they would be much better off because me, I hate math. Yeah. I suck at it. Um, I don't care how simple the math equation is. Someone can be like, Hey, uh, what's 50 minus 12? I'm like five. I don't know. I'm not a math magician. Yeah. Yeah, dude. She, Caroline hates when I say that, but, uh, I know it's mathematician, but it's more whimsical to say math magician. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like, I, I could not, and I still don't to this day as an adult now, I was absolutely right as a child. I was like, why the fuck do I need to know long division? Yeah. Like I don't need to know that for every day. Like I need to know percentages, some smaller division, some smaller multiplication, but I don't need to know like long fucking four. A million. Algebra. Algebra. I don't need to know that shit. I'm not making rockets and sending them to the moon. That's not going to be my gig. Right. That kid might, but. If I, if I had it my way, what, what I think would be a really cool way to, uh, get kids to be the people they're meant to be in the career path are meant to be on, um, would be to like, they, you have to take an aptitude test, like every, every few years to see where you're going. Um, IQ tests kind of thing. Like, okay, like, you know, can they think, um, critically about this? And then you, you know, you put them kind of on a path that they're supposed to be. Uh, that's good for them. Something that they can be happy with to do, but something that's necessary for all of us to have in society. Right. Right. So as far as you. Uh, getting involved with someone who's in recovery, not a long term recovery too, or damn sure long term addiction. You know, uh, what has that been like for, for you? I mean, I, I've, I've seen people, uh, women that come in here and sit down and they have these thriving relationships and stuff. And it's like the first thing that comes to my mind is like how, how strong a man needs to be to be with that woman or a partner woman, be with the woman or whatever the case, right? But it's like, there's such a past there. And again, you know, uh, being macho or being like, it's like, man, I don't know if I can be, and then you try and flex upon the relationship. That can be very, very easy to do as well. So what has that been like for you? Just curious about that with being with someone that's in long term addiction and recovery. I think of where I goes back to like working in treatment is and comparing myself to, to the people that are in treatment or in recovery is man, if someone judged me based off of my past, my past mistakes, um, decisions, then I wouldn't want to be around them. Yeah. And so for like her, um, I know who she is now. Yeah. I wasn't there during, during all of that stuff. Um, I can empathize because I know she went through a lot of stuff had, you know, you know, maybe not the best, uh, support system, you know, didn't, and didn't have anything really to grab onto, uh, when a lot of her would spiraled her into, into that, that world. Um, but I know who she is now. I know what she represents as a person. Um, and that's what I hold on to. And so everything else, she's worked through it. She's one of the strongest people I've ever known. And so for her, I have any, really anybody that's in recovery, I have so much admiration for it because I look at, and you have that past that you had to like get through, get over it, process all of that and move on. Um, as much as you can, cause you still carry that stuff with you, right? But you have that you have your, your personal life, your family life. You have work and then if you work a program, you have all of that you have to do, you got to go to meetings, you got to sponsor your sponsor, all that stuff. I was like, that is so much stuff. And it's so overwhelming. I'm like, I don't know how you'll do it. And so it's, it's incredibly, um, rewarding for me as a partner to seal her. Uh, like just like in hindsight, just to look at, I was like, everything that you've been through to do that, to be where you are now, um, I can be prouder. And so me being, you know, a normie and being with someone that is in long term recovery has had, you know, a lot of, uh, you know, substance abuse at that, that point, I'm just here to see where you are now and continue to move forward. We don't, we can look in the back, you know, look in the mirror to like, see what we, where we've been, but we don't have to, to stare at it. Yeah. I've always wondered that. And by the way, I'm going to correct you being a straight edge dude, your whole life and never having a drink of alcohol or drugs. You were anything but a fucking normie. Yeah. Yeah. I know that for sure. Yeah. You are an outlier. Yeah. Like you are not a normie. Like you are, I used to say that at the treatment center, um, you know, people will be like, you're a normie. And I was like, dude, I've never even picked up anything, but like, you know, my headphones or some shit, you know, and they're always like, how? Yeah. And they're like, how? And I was like, dude, because I'm out of there. I'm weird in that sense because, uh, and don't get me wrong. Like being, being straight edge and like having that, uh, it's not always easy. It doesn't come without temptation. You know, I've been, I have friends that, you know, that they, their whole purpose when they go out and when they go out and they want to drink, they're trying to get fucked up. Yeah. Trying to get obliterated. You know, they're, they don't want to remember the night. I'm like, they're like, I'm trying to get blacked out. I was like, that's fucking crazy. Why, why would you not want to remember tonight? You know, we're having an awesome night and then, then I'm a downer because they're like, oh, you got fucking serious. Yeah. And I was like, well, it's serious. If you go home and you're, you're fucked up and then you cause an accident that loses you or anyone else's lives. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. I think it's so important. What you said was like, uh, you know where she's at now. That's something that, um, my fiancee struggled with with me. She's like, like she, it took her forever to get her on the podcast. And then she didn't want to like put her fit. Like she sings really well. She plays piano and guitar. She makes all her own music. She doesn't ever want to be in front of a camera because well, what if somebody recognizes me or say something from my past or this or that? And I'm like, who gives a fuck? Yeah. Like that's not who you are now. And that's really not who you were then. That's just who you were pretending to be. Right. Because you didn't have a good support system or cause you grew up in a fucked up way or you didn't have role models that would sit there and say, Hey, that's not the way that we conduct ourselves. Yeah. You know, and, and you were on drugs like that, not that that's an excuse, but it's not you. Yes. Yeah. That's, let's be honest. That's not, you don't make the greatest decisions. Whenever, uh, when, when you're using. So I think that's, that's very important, especially like in when someone's in recovery, that you meet them where they are now, rather than, you know, you can't judge them for who they were because that's really not who the fuck they were. Yeah. Like I've always said, like most people that are addicts that I've met in recovery are some of the best people you'll ever meet. Just when we're using, we make some of the fucking worst decisions and we're, we're some of the most selfish people that you can find. Yeah, dude, but I think, I mean, I look at it, I got to see you on both ends of that spectrum, right? Like I got to witness that and I loved you from the moment I met you, right? Most men do. Yeah. That's you have that effect, but the deal is, is like, you can, when you're, these people are that person, you know, on the other end of it, even when they're in it, I hope I'm making sense when I say that. It's like, you can still tell the soul of a person. Yeah. You know, if you're a piece of shit person, you're going to be a piece of shit on drugs or you're going to be a piece of shit on the other end of that, right? But if you're not, then you're not, you know, and that goes for both sides. It's just like there's some shit that has to be worked through on that side of things to get them to that side of things. And so I think it's real interesting. Like I, I think it's super interesting to me that you are a complete straight edge guy that was working in recovery for a long time and ended up, you know, and I, we have this in common. It was like for me to like find my place or the people that I connect with the most. Like I had to start hanging out with a bunch of former drug addicts. Right? I think what I've loved about working when I've worked in recovery and meeting people in recovery is they are who they are. They're unapologetic about who they are. They wear their mistakes and their past with pride because they're like, I went from that to where I am now and they're just so much nicer. Yeah. Because they have a real like respect for where they, where they are now because they're like, I was, you know, and what they're capable of. Yeah. What they're capable of. And like, you know, I have friends that I'm like, dude, you don't know right from wrong and it's really weird. Yeah. And like, because y'all people in recovery, they've worked on themselves and like, you know, Carolines helped me kind of see past my own little veil of like myself because I was like, oh, like I look at myself in a certain light and I don't recognize my shortcoming sometimes. And because she's worked on herself, she knows what she needs to work on, no character defects or whatever. Yeah. And then she's able to point out my show, which is really refreshing because no one has ever really done that for me or taken a chance to or or taken an opportunity to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So that can speak to it intelligently and so yeah, like actually like make me see it without me being like, no, you're full of shit. You know, yeah. And that's refreshing. I still need to work on a lot of that stuff because I it's some like it's like sometimes it goes in one ear and out the other because I'm like, I hear what you said, but I don't understand. And then, you know, I'm a little bit of a sensitive guy. And so she's like, I don't hurt your feelings. Yeah. And sometimes that gets offensive to you. What do you mean? I hurt my feelings. Yeah. Like I'm a fucking dude. Yeah. I've said that before too, I think where I was like, I was like, yes, I'm sensitive, but if you don't tell me anything, then I'm not going to fucking learn. I'm not going to realize that I'm going to continue to do the same thing. Sure. Sometimes even with when she tells me, I still do the same thing. Yeah. Because I'm, you know, it's it's burned in. It's it's burned in. Like you are who you are, man. Like breaking those breaking those cycles or or habits. That's the one thing I wish, like, not that I wish I had, but when, when you're coming into recovery, you're able to kind of be like, oh, like that was me on drugs. Yeah. I don't have that crush. Yeah. I'm like, that's fucking me. Yeah. Me being a, you know, dumbass and like just like, like not knowing where I fucked up where I've been an asshole. That's just pure me being blind. Yeah. Um, ignorance. Yeah. And, you know, ignorance is bliss because I've lived like this 28 years without knowing where I've where my shortcomings have been. And for her to be able to, you know, pinpoint, I'm like, oh my God. You know, it sucks that we have a mutual friend that watches the podcast Ramon. And, um, he was my supervisor and he had fired me four different times. He's coming on pretty soon. He is. Yeah. We're going to get him on. So, uh, sounds like a cool dude. I used to always use that same excuse. Well, fucking, I'm on drugs, you know, I'm fucking high or whatever. Well, when I got sober, he caught me in a lie at work and he's like, see, it was never the fucking drugs. It's you, like it's you. And, uh, and I couldn't use that excuse anymore because it was like, well, fucking, you know, so yeah, I definitely used to always use that as a crutch. Well, I was high, high, but even when I was high, I always knew the right from wrong shit, but I didn't, I never looked at the consequences, I think more than anything, like I'm going to do this and I'm, it's going to work. Like I'm not going to get caught. Like when I used to drive my daughter around and hide dope in her car seat, like I would never do that now. Yeah. Right. And when I was doing that at the time, I knew like, this is fucked up, but I'm also sick and I need to get dope from point A to point B. And if we get pulled over surely they won't check her car seat. Like that was my thinking. Yeah. Right. I could justify anything that I did. And, but now being sober, like when I hear other people do that and other people are like, I can't believe they would fucking do that. I actually, and kind of like, I kind of get it. Yeah. Even though I know it's not right, I kind of get it because I've done it before. Does that make sense? Yeah. You're able to put yourself like, if that were me. Yeah. I can see why, how that. Yeah. Like when we went and picked somebody up, I won't say the name on here. We went pick somebody up. Me and Destiny did and we drove them somewhere and we got pulled over and they had dope on them. Like I'm two years sober. Destiny's a year sober. And this person got in our car knowing we're literally driving to a restaurant and coming home. Right. And at first I was pissed because when the cop got me out, I'm like, look, I'm sober. I mean, look, I'm going to fucking rat on somebody right now quick because I ain't getting in trouble for your ass. If I can call me a snitch if you want to, but he's like, I smell weed in the car. So it's not me. Not me and it's not her. I don't know who it is, but it's not us. And then there's three of us. There's three of us. It's not me. He's like, not her. I promise you. And you're like, and I'm telling him like I'm in recovery and he's like, all right. Well, so he gets everybody out. He checks everybody and sure enough, the person that we had with us had something on him. And of course she's like, I don't know. I'm just someone put it there. It's not mine. Right. Same shit. I would have said to, and I couldn't even be mad at the person. At first I was thinking like, what the fuck would you bring that car with us? But then I had to remind myself like when I was sick, I was bringing my shit no matter where I was going. Yeah. Like it didn't, it didn't matter who I was with, but my pipe was coming with me. And I'm going to have a bag of dope on me too. And I'm going to have my torch somewhere with me too. Cause I can't like, even if it's going to a restaurant. So I could not justify, but I could see like, well, I couldn't even be mad at him. Yeah. You know, and it's crazy. Like the thinking that we do whenever we're in that, like it's thinking that I would never do now, but I get it. I understand it. Cause I've been there. Yeah. Makes sense for sure. So, um, said to your music guy. Yeah. Yeah. What do you listen to? All right. Now I'm like really big on sleep token. Okay. All right. All right. But I listened to anything, man. I'll listen to, I can go from like mayhem, like black metal stuff to classical music. Some, you know, throw on some Disney anchor. Yeah. I, I have this. Swing token. Dude, you need to put on some sleep. So go on. Put on some sleep. Oh dude. I listened to chokehold. So that's a banger. So if you have you seen the guy from another band singing chokehold? Uh, I forget the name of the band. He it's on YouTube. If you put on a chokehold cover, you'll know the band because you listened to that. It's the same. I've heard, uh, you know who actually did a cover. Uh, I think it was, I don't know if it was them or bad omens that he did a cover up, but Chris Dottry did a, uh, he did a cover. I do can see. Yeah. I mean, he's like an OG from American Idol. Yeah. But he, dude, that guy can sing the fucking phone book. He's got some pipes, dude. Yeah. Uh, chokehold cover, check it out whenever you're done. I'll check it out when we get out of here. It's fucking crazy. Cause he, he, it almost when that song comes on, you almost have like an R and B feel to it or it's like you, you're like, what the fuck is this? And then it breaks into kind of hard guitars. I'll hype up sleep token like no tomorrow because they're, they are just genre benders like they'll, they'll go from, like you said, like an R and B kind of sounding song. They'll have like some soul in it. They'll have, uh, you know, some like post hardcore kind of things going in there and then they'll have straight up real gutter all screaming. Yeah. Like this dude's got so much range. Yeah. Vessel, shout out vessel. When you were saying, uh, that you were straight edge, that term is like, Oh, you got like minor threats. It's like, yeah, it's like punk rock. It's like a punk rock thing. I grew up listening to a lot of punk rock and a lot of metal. I had the, the suspicion not because of the way you look. I feel like you have to know, I'm like, based on how you look, I feel like you listen to like, like gorilla biscuits or something like that. I feel like you listen to them. Yeah. No, I have, I have the wildest like playlist. So my girlfriend can't stand it because it'll go from the temptations to slayer. Like very, if I'm just playing random stuff, you're the time for that. Yeah. It's a poly jammer. That's a good one. Yeah. I had no clue what you were talking about. Yeah. I still listen to the same thing, man. Right. Yeah. I still listen to staying. Staying is fucking great. To like, I've never like after that group of rock, I never moved into the newer people. Yeah. I stayed with Lincoln Park and all that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Caroline, well, I'll give a shout out to Nickelback too, because like Nickelback, the best man I've ever seen. They get so much hate. Bro, did you see their documentary? No, they have a documentary. There's a documentary on Netflix about about fucking Nickelback. And I was of that mindset before that documentary, like, ah, this fucking bullshit. Yeah, whatever, you know, but there's the documentaries basically like, I mean, it's addressing them coming up together, like young kids and Canada and all of that. But it like, it directly addresses that. That they got. Why the fuck are they are we hated? Like, why are we hated so much and them kind of leaning into it? And they're like, yeah. I mean, obviously there's we fill up arenas still today. Like people don't not. Have you ever seen them in concert? No. Have you? Yes. It's the best band I've ever seen a concert. OK. And the first time that I went and I've seen probably 500 bands in concert, like, you know, because sometimes they have three or four different bands that come on. I went to watch Trapped, remember Trapped? Yeah. Went to watch Hedstrong. I was the only song. I was the only song I know. I only saw it. That was the only song I had. They were playing in San Antonio and they were opening for Nickelback. Nickelback was and I was like, once Trapped gets on, we can just we can leave after they had gone on Hedstrong. I don't care. But the couple that we went with, they were there for Nickelback. So we had to stay. Yeah. And that was the best concert I've ever been to. Yeah. Holy shit. Like they put on a banger and then I went and seen them like two or three times after that. But yeah, they they were great. I haven't seen the documentary, but I heard it's phenomenal. It's fucking great. But I heard it. Yeah. For some reason, they were just hated. They got hate because they were they were successful, you know, like, and I think Chad Kroger sing he sounds just like sounds like same way. Live same same fucking way. That's how I judge bands. If you can sound at least comparable to how you sound on the record, then you're good. That's everything. We just went and watched Lincoln Park and they get they got the girl. They got that. Yeah. Fucking great. She sounds really good. I was I was real hesitant to give them. I was two drops because I was like Chester was like irreplaceable is what I felt like. And he still is. I mean, he still is a different chapter of the band. But yeah, that that's one of those things that it Chester will never be replaced to me. Like I love Lincoln Park, too. Can you imagine how much pressure she had replacing him? Oh, yeah. Or she doesn't get enough credit for taking that on either. No, I mean, like, dude, she took a bunch of shit. He still does. Like from the family, I'm live. She is one of the best performers that I've seen, like getting the crowd hyped up. OK, and getting like involved with the crowd. She's fucking great and her vocal range is fucking stupid. Like Destiny sings really well and Destiny was in awe of her. She's like, man, this she can fucking get she can hit everything. I think the pressure from the band members to like, I'm sure, you know, like that's a that's a task. I wonder if they had resentment towards him, too, though. To Chester. Yes. I'm sure because I was like, I mean, well, that's mental health, right? Yeah, I mean, ties back in that, you know, like him in like in a selfish way. Right. Yeah. Like, I know my own personal feelings. I would have resentment towards someone because I'm selfish. Like, one, why didn't you come to us? Right. And say, hey, this is what I'm going through. Blah, blah, blah. Maybe you did. Maybe you didn't. But then, too, you literally my selfishness would be like, man, you could have ruined everything for us. Right. Not, you know, and it's it's like, you know, it's transference because, you know, whatever someone was going through, they obviously felt strong enough that they took their own life that they had to take it in. But that is now transferred to their loved ones, you know, like Chester Benson, he had his kids, you know, followed all the way down. And it's it's just going to trickle down. And that's other trauma that it might not be the same magnitude, but it's like you splinter it off and pass it down to everyone that, you know, you touched in your life. Yeah. I saw it. Well, I didn't see it, but I just heard I saw like a YouTube video or something whenever the I don't know what her name is, but whoever took over for Chester, his the his wife, his widow had some. I know she was like, she did not like it. It's probably still doesn't. And that makes all the sense in the world to me, though, because like what I just said, like Chester, is irreplaceable. Yeah. To her, that's her husband. That's her world. Like that is to her even more than every fan out there. I don't care who it is. Like that is that was his thing. But Emily Armstrong's her name with with with with. I always like when he died, it was like shocking. And then you go when something like that happens, you inevitably go back to like listen to their catalog a little bit. And then you're listening to the lyrics. You're like, oh, yeah. Kind of like mapping it out. Like he's really just fucking telling you that this was always that song. One more light. Yeah, the one that I'm always like, oh, my God. Like I remember when he when he passed away, that was one because I didn't I hadn't listened to that album. Yeah. And so because they were like, that's that's the more poppy album that you kind of did. So I was like, I don't really want to listen to it. And then after he passed, I went back and listened to it. And I was like, falling my eyes out in the car because I was like, this is so sad. Like he like you said, right? He like mapped it out. He told he told everybody from the whole world. The beginning. Like, I mean, you go back and listen to the very first album they had. And there's their shit on there. You're like, whoa, it had so much. He had and thank God he had that. We probably would have lost him a lot sooner if he didn't have that outlet because he was just telling you though. Well, that's the thing is a lot of people always think like depression, right? That's only for sad people that don't have things in their life. And you see these actors and actresses all the time that fucking take their own life. Or it gets lonely or she gets lonely. And I'm sure that lonely or when you reach the top like that. No, that you got to you got to really be able to justify like, who are your people? Really? Like, who are your real friends and who aren't? You know what I mean? I mean, when you have all that money, you got a lot of fucking friends. Yeah. And when that money is gone, like Mike Tyson, you say, when the money goes, so do the hoes. Yeah. You know, and you got to really justify like, who's really in my corner? Well, that's what you think about. Like, I think about like there's a lot of stuff that goes into like, like men's health, men's mental health in particular. I think of like sports, right? Like, you have like CTE stuff. There's a lot of athletes that are athletes, musicians that even the CTE stuff aside, but like they go from like this incredible high of being in front of thousands of people performing or playing the sport they love. And then when they got to hang it up, you lose all of that. Where is that? Where are you going to get that rush again? And so then I think that is where they get that come down. Yeah. They're like they're in a lull. They're so they're that's where their depression comes in. Yeah, I'm not who I used to be. But that and like, who are you now? Yeah. You know what I mean? He's lost your whole. Colby Bryant used to talk about that a lot. Like he had he was setting his career up to where he was going to. I thought he was going to do his second chapter was going to be. It was going to be bigger than the first, I think, which is almost impossible. Yeah, but it was. And that's what he used to always talk about is like when athletes hang it up, what are you going to go to next? Right? And you see a lot of you see, you know, with singers, actress, I mean, with anything like that second part in their life is always not always, but a lot of times it's real sad, depressing, like it's just a downshift. Yeah, because they've been the center of attention for so fucking long. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're not playing sports anymore. You're not going out and winning anymore. Like your whole identity changes in a lot of ways. I mean, even to the entertainer or music, right? Like, you know, you're one hit away from the top, right? And then that hit burns out and you can't make another one. That's you talk about like peak and valley. Yeah, right? Like, I mean, it's really important to to like I my son plays baseball. He plays football. I hate that he plays football because of the CTE shit. But it I had to let him do it. And I I because I want him to do other things besides just playing baseball. I want him to have other try and find other shit that he enjoys doing outside of it for that reason. Yeah. And I tell him all the time, man, it's like, don't ride the highs too high or the lows too low, man. You've got to don't trust it when you're up there. Yeah, don't trust it. And don't trust it when you're down there either. It's a lot easier to work your way up to the middle or work your way down to the middle than it is, you know, if you're not, if you don't establish that middle. Yeah, if you if you don't have that middle ground of where you know that you're good, everything's fine. And even in the middle, dude, it's going to it's going to do that. But if you can mitigate the fucking peak and valley, right? And just make it a a little bit more of a little hilly. That's why I think like the you know, that the quote that this this to shall pass. Yeah. Like a lot of people really think about that quote when they're like in the trenches or something. That's something you got to keep on when you're when things are really good. Yeah, yeah, because that's true. That's just going to go. That's just going to go away to. And then shall pass, man. So you got to be able to know all the all, you know, as good as things can get. That's going to go away at some point as shitty as things can get. That's going to pass to. So you got to find that middle ground where you're able to be. Yeah, content. It's really true. I never thought about that. Like this to shall pass. I only ever thought about that when shit's terrible. Yeah, yeah. But not when shit's good. This is going to go away too. It's like we've all met people like when they talk about their life. You've met those people before where like high school was the highlight of their whole entire life. And I used to hear that from people and I used to think there is no way that I'm going to fucking talk about high school when I'm 30 or 40 years old. Like those are best days of my life. Like I want my life to continue to go. Now I was a drug addict for 10 years. Right. But I wouldn't change that either. You know, yeah, I mean, look, man, thing, things done right. I mean, high school, high school is fun, man. It should or it should be fun. I mean, it should be. It isn't all the time, but it should be. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody looking back. I mean, dude, when you were 17, 16, 17, you you have like no real responsibilities. You know what I mean? Like there's that should be taken advantage of in the best of way. Live your life. That's the only thing I wish I could have done when I was like, like looking back now, like I I think like a lot of kids now, you know, high school is it's it's daunting because of the social aspect of things. It's not like you're not the school, you know, going to class, you know, sure. Some people struggle with their schoolwork and stuff, but it's the going in. How do how do I fit in? You know, if I remember the first time I went to like a new school and you're like, oh, I'm not going to know anybody like and you know, that doesn't hit you until you hit the lunchroom for for lunch. You know, right? I don't know who I'm going to sit with. And then you feel, you know, you you just go come back into yourself. Yeah. You know, it's like in that like being girls when Lindsay Lange goes and fucking stall, but that shit's real, you know, and. You should be able to like just focus on being a kid. Well, and no responsibilities. My favorite movies being girls, by the way, is it in that in that high school environment too, and I know my son probably doesn't do it because of the social aspect of it, but I've always told him, I'm like, man. Let you're an athlete, you're a dude and, you know, you're a guy. I was like, you have more in common with the fucking dude sitting over there by himself. That's dressed in goth gear. Yeah. You know, you I guarantee you, you have shit in common with that guy. Yeah. Maybe more in common with that guy than your bros on the baseball team. More than you think. More than you would think. And I like I tell him and his friends all the time that gather around me. I'm like, take some time and go talk to that fucking person and don't look at him like there's some kind of fucking outcast because I promise you they're not. Like they they're only they're only that way because. Of a confidence thing. Well, you did that or something that happened in the life. Right. Sometimes, you know, like it's how they how they dress or what they listen to is why I'm you see the goth thing is but I'm just saying maybe the only kid at a table is just perfectly normal. Yeah. You know, like when I was in high school, I hung out with I talked to everybody. Yeah. And like I like my group of people were kind of, I guess you would kind of say more preppy, yes, but I would hang out with cow cow Hicks goth people are cool as fuck to me. Yeah, we call them stoners. Yeah. And I remember like in school when we'd be walking through the hall, like I would high five different people and my buddies be like, Oh, fuck, you know them. Yeah. Like, oh, dude, Jim, Jim was a stoner in school. The coolest fucking dude that I hung out with in school. Yeah. We worked at Taco Bell together. Yeah. That's how I met him. And then I found out like he was just a cool fucking dude, even though he wore all black and dressed up and fucking neck chains and dresses sometimes. Yeah. Just cool as fuck. Yeah. And and that's what, you know, I used to always tell man, just fucking talk to everybody. Yeah. I'm not any better than anybody. It's like you said, I might have more in common with that fucking person than the people that I'm really hanging out with. Yeah, man. Try and find some common ground with kind of everyone. Yeah. To that point, that's kind of this thing and what you've done. Yeah, exactly. Like yeah, like I'm in common with these people. Yeah, like that's drug addicts wouldn't have hung out with you if they judged you from what exactly I got that, you know, I got a straight edge. Yeah. I would get hit with that all the time. It was like, oh, you don't understand. Yeah. Fuck that. I remember one of the first times I ever like had to like not not run a meeting, but like I had to like, you know, facilitate a meeting and so I'm getting them started. I was like, oh, this is regular a meeting and I was like, my name's Caesar. And I skipped over like alcoholic addict part and someone yelled in the back. Alcoholic addict. And I was like, neither. And they're like, oh, you're in denial. And I was like, no, I've never, I've never done anything. And someone else in the back, oh, you think you're better than us? I was like, not, not even close. And then I was like, I think I was was overwhelmed. I'd been at that point where I was just like, like I was tripping over my words. And I'm like, oh my God, thank God, someone else was there that came in and saved the day for me. Yeah. But that's what I had to tell everybody every time I was like, because I'm on this side of the desk, doesn't make me better than you because I've never. You know, been where you've been with, you know, a bottle in hand or, you know, pills, whatever your DLC was, I'm not better than anybody. You know, I am a person like you, you're a person like me, and we all have our own struggles. And I just want to make sure that you're able to get the care you need and get better so you can live your life the way you want to for yourself and for your loved ones. And that's just, that was my thing. I can tell you're kind of a quiet guy. Oh yeah. And like, you know, I think about being put in that situation. I would have had a conversation with that dude right there. Yeah. Think you're better than us. Let's talk about that for a minute. Like let's, let's chat about that. I've never sucked dick for coats. Maybe. Like look, just because I haven't put a substance in my body doesn't mean that I don't feel the same way that you do. Yeah. You just decided to do this. That's okay. That's why you're here. But I'm here to fucking help because I feel a lot of the same way that everybody in this room does and I never touched a fucking thing. So the one thing I remember telling someone, I don't know how many times I'd brought this example up with them or a few other, you know, clients at the time was I was like, y'all's drug was alcohol, heroin, whatever your DOC was. I was like, mine was my sadness. Yeah. I let myself feel sorry for myself for nothing because I had, I have so much to be thankful for and I, I, but whatever reason, I don't know what it was that really made me feel so down and so depressed about, you know, to the point where I was like, I'm going to kill my fucking soul. I don't know what it was, but I found comfort in it. If that makes sense. Yeah. You know, because nobody could tell me I was like, nobody could invalidate what I felt. I was like, I feel sad. It was yours. I was like, you don't understand, you know, the same thing that the clients would tell me is you never been through this. You don't know what I feel. I would say the same thing to other people, you know, if I ever talked about my why I'm sad, because they would hit, they would tell me stuff like that. I'd be like, you, you have so much to be thankful for. Why are you, you know, like this? And then I had to gas myself to like make myself feel better. You know, and be like, yeah, you know, you've been a fucking bitch. You got this. When you're in those feelings, like feeling depressed, I. I don't know if I ever had depression when I was using. I'm sure I did, but I just used to get around it. And when I got sober, that's actually when I started. Like I used to always tell people, just fucking man up. It's a, it's a mindset. Change your mind, change your thinking. And when I was married to my daughter's mom, she went through depression and I just never understood it. I'm like, dude, we have so many things to be grateful for. Why the fuck are you sad? And she would be like, I don't know. I'm just sad. And I just didn't understand that I didn't. It did. I wasn't the best person to come with that. Right. And now there's days where fucking I'm just sad. Yeah. And there's no reason for me to be sad. I just, I'm just not feeling it today. Right. And Destiny's always like, you know, what can I do? What can I do? And I'm just like, just let me bitch. Let me let me fucking whine for 10 minutes and then I'll get it. I'll get over it. So as long as I don't like sit in that pity party shit, I think I think when you're feeling in that, it's okay to fucking identify it. Yeah. I think it's okay. Like for me, if I allow myself to sit in it all day, I'm going to fucking not be good for anybody that day. And I'm going to bring everybody around me down and it's just going to make it worse throughout the day. Yeah. So I think if you can identify it, like I'm just sad today. Okay. Well, fucking this too will pass too. Yeah, exactly. And if I can get through that moment and get to something else or fucking even take my mind away from it to go do something else, then I think that's how one way that you can battle it without fucking picking up. Because unfortunately, when you're in recovery, we can't use drugs to get around that shit no more. You know, that's why I say like, you know, like I threw myself in a lot of hobbies back then, you know, whether it was going for a walk, going for a drive, I love to drive. To it's expensive habit now because it does fall asleep after like 20 minutes. No, I mean, I'll go. I'll put on a playlist like I love Spotify because they'll make these playlists for you. No, I love finding new music. And so I would, you know, I would just drive listen to listen to the words listen to whatever music genre was. And that's what I would do. I would go drive around. It's super expensive to do that now with gas being what it's at. But that's what I liked to do. And so I would go drive. That felt, you know, the need to scream. I'd be in the car and it's screaming my head off. Yeah. Um, uh, go play golf or, you know, dork. I love golf. Yeah. I suck at it. I play. So when something you said earlier, like when you at would you would ask people in recovery, like, what do you like to do hobbies? So that was something that I didn't know anymore because I had been using drugs for 10 years. What do I like to do? I like to get high. Like that was my hobby. And I'd tell people all the time, like when you get sober, you got to fill in your gaps, right? Like on the days that I had my daughter, I knew I was going to be safe. Right. But on the days that I didn't have her, if I'm sitting in this house, sad and depressed, whatever, those are the days that I've got to fill my time with something else. So I started golf and I started working out again. I started like doing all these playing softball, playing volleyball and like going to meetings. I started filling my time because I didn't, I didn't know myself anymore. So I had to find myself again and had to find out what do I like to do? Like I started playing pickleball. Fucking love pickleball. Golf. Terrible at it. Yes. Fun to just get out of there. But there's something about when you hit one good golf shot, it's like, holy shit. Like that was a great, it was an amazing feeling. Yeah. Right. But I always tell people, like when you get sober, you definitely have to find some hobbies because I can't hang out with who I used to hang out with. I have to separate myself from them. I love them. I can't hang out with them. And then I got to go find who I am now because for 10 years I was lost. I know who I was 11 years ago. I know what hobbies I liked then, but people change in 10 years or 11 years. So I had to go find new ones. Well, and I watched you go through the thing where it was like you got out and you were meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting. I mean, you were going to meetings at lunchtime. You were going to meetings after work, like every day. And times a day. Yeah. He he was having that I got to stay here. Right. Which is okay. That's good. That's what it's there for. Yeah. Right. But you got to create an identity outside of that too. Yeah. You know, and I I'm I'm sure they're out there where it's just like, this is it. This is all I'm doing is these meetings and I'm in recovery and I'm immersed in them. You know, but it's like, man, you got to. Yeah. Well, like I think like the whole point of recovery is like it's so that you can. Live your life how you're supposed to and live your life is like doing things, going places, not being stuck in the rooms. Right. Those rooms are great. They're safe place. They're safe spaces, but. Some point, you know, you got to take the training wheels off. Yeah. Yeah. I had a buddy that I was going to meetings fucking every day three times a day sometimes and he was like, Hey, what are you doing this week? And I said, man, going to a meeting Friday night, Saturday, I'm going to meeting Sunday. He's like, did you get sober just to go to meetings? And it's like what you said, you got to figure out your life and so you can live your life. The meetings are a great place to go and they're a great safe space. But eventually I think that you got to figure out, well, what am I going to do with my life now that I'm sober? Like, am I going to go to three meetings a day? I mean, it takes an hour for the meeting 30 minutes to get there 30 minutes. It's taken up my entire day. Are am I going to go be a dad? Am I going to go do things for myself or my fiance or go just enjoy life? Yeah. I think, you know, you got to find a happy medium in there. I go to meetings now. If somebody that I know is getting a chip and they asked me to go, then I'll always show up for him. Or if somebody asked me to go to a meeting like somebody, Hey, you still go to meetings, man, maybe we should go to a meeting. Somebody that's kind of scratching that surface. I'll always make time to go to meetings with them. And when I was feeling spiritually unfit, when I'm not feeling Jesus in my life, I'm like, I need a fucking beat. Those are the three times I go to meetings now. I go to probably one or two meetings a month. I went to one last night because my home girl got her chip. So, but yeah, I'm a big believer in you didn't get sober just to live in a fucking room. You got to go figure out what you want to go live for. Now, if you're, if that's where you want to be and you just want to help thousands of people, that's great too. Everybody's different, but I like that. At some point you got to take the train and you got to get out of that safe space. Yeah. That's coming for me. Who, you know, take, take it with a grain of salt. It's not in, not in recovery, but, uh, Yeah, dude, but I, so I know Caroline, she's 12 stepper. Mm hmm. So inevitably you're probably working them right along with her. Yeah, I hear the, hear the, hear the verbiage, you know, she does her, her grateful, you know, list and stuff like that every night. Um, she's got me doing those here and there. I'm pretty bad at doing them. Just cause not, and it's not that I have a hard time finding stuff to be grateful for, but like, um, one of the things she always tries to tell me, she's like, anybody could be grateful for like the big things, right? I'm grateful for, you know, having a roof over my head, having this, but one of the things that she does is like being grateful for like things about ourselves. You know, like, like, Oh, I love my, um, I know something. I love my hair or something like that. You know, okay, I can't say it. Yeah. But, uh, you know, things like that. She tries to get me to like look a little bit more, uh, I guess my, my problem is cause like, is I always look, I try to look too deep. I try to make it too deep. Yeah. And so she's like, sometimes you can be on the surface and just be okay with like, what can you immediately see that you're thankful for? It can be just be like, I'm thankful. I got this fucking Taco Bell last night or something. Yeah. You know, and I'm grateful for this diary. I'm going to have tomorrow as a result. Grateful for the opportunity. Yeah. You know, and stuff like that. And, um, but yeah, you know, she, she does her stuff and I have to, you know, I don't have to, I, I, I support her because that's what I want to do. Right. And, uh, well, one of the ways I find my, my, me being able to support is like, well, how can I do like my own part? And I think having worked in recovery is like, even if I'm, I'm not an alcoholic or an addict, but I've, I've read the texts before I've been in the meetings before I've been in the rooms. I can always take something out of those, those meetings. Amen. Dude, I do. It would definitely make you feel more grateful when you go to one. Oh yeah. Like when you hear other people in the shit that they're going through. Yeah. That goes back to like, we're, when I said, I have to gaslight myself sometimes where I was like, I do not have it that fucking bad. Bro, we were at a hockey game the other night and, uh, our, our job changed our pay plan, right? We're very blessed where we work. They take very good care of us, but anytime they change something, I'm always like, they're fucking us. Right. And we're at a hockey game and my supervisor always calls me the night before when they change something to let me know, because he knows I'm a leader in the room. And if he can get me on board and I can get everybody else on board. But if I'm the one in the room that's like, this is bullshit. Everybody's in a follow suit. Yeah. So I'm sitting there fucking arguing with, not arguing, but a bitch. And I get off the phone with him and, um, I'm talking to destiny and destiny's like, well, like, how bad is it? Like, are you into this? And I'm telling her like, well, I'll be able to still make this. And she's like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, is that your bitching because of that? And then as I'm bitching, this guy walks past us and he's got an army shirt on. He's carrying his daughter. He's got shorts on and he has two aluminum legs. Right. And you know, he lost those in a war somewhere. I mean, he wouldn't have an army shirt on. I'm assuming. And I had to sit there and like, that's how God humbles me is he put somebody like that in front of me and like, look at you piece of shit. You're bitching and moaning about this. And this guy is going about his day and he's not fucking complaining at all. Yeah. He's smile on his face. I'm a fucking hockey game, dude. Bro, I would not, if I had aluminum legs, I'm never wearing shorts again. Like that's because I'm gonna worry about what people think. This dude just fucking walk past us like nobody's business. If I have aluminum legs, I'm never wearing pants again. Yeah. That's how I'm going to look at it. Yeah. You know, I'm just going out there just underwear all the time. Fucking look at him. Yeah. Look at him. But yeah, it's like, you know, there's there's so many things to be grateful for. I do. There is like to your point, me being in this arena now, it's changed me just in one year's time. It's changed the I can only imagine did the same for you working there every day. But now that I'm doing this and I'm not doing it every day, you know, we're showing up here once, twice a week. And but it's definitely changed my perspective on what I'm grateful for. It's also kind of in some ways made me a little more insensitive. To people who are complaining to me about shit now. Now I'm just like, dude, I had a lady that was traded for an eight ball of cocaine the other day in front of me, like, you know what I mean? Like it was it was just like you're you're complaining to me about the fucking shoes being expensive or something. You know, I'm just like, Jesus. Yeah, we all have our own like little, you know, first world problems that we do. I mean, they're all ours, right? And I do need to be better about being more sensitive to that. Yeah. It's but I'm grateful for that change of myself because it's got me to look at everybody. Yeah, even I think like that's man, I don't know. I can't remember if it was more recently or if it was like years ago that I heard this, but it was like when you're going through shit and you're but you're here. Right. You're you're not living how you were, you know, during active addiction. You're here now and then shits fucking horrible for a period of time. And then putting it on like on your gratitude list is like, I'm thankful that like that I have the opportunity to like this is my rock bottom at this point. Yeah. This is this is the worst things are going to get right now. I've already been, you know, in the gutter. And now all I got to worry about is like, you know, my fucking utility bill. Three hundred dollars. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, but that's awesome because like the utilities are cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Conditioning. You're like, I have the means to pay for that utility. Yeah. You know, reframing my mind and like in that way to be more in a positive light than thinking negatively like that. It has been one of the best takeaways from working in recovery and working in treatment couldn't be more grateful for that, actually. Yeah, that's awesome. So you're about to have a baby. Yeah. Twenty years old. Eight years old. What do you think about that, man? I'm excited. Yeah. Obviously I have my own anxieties about becoming a father, you know. Obviously, you know, Caroline, she has she has kids. My stepkids and love them. But it's different, you know, like it's like. They're, you know, was it 17, 13 and 10? Yeah. And so they're self-sufficient for the most part. Sometimes they know that. I mean, I know what you mean. They're able to like throw a hot pocket in the microwave. Yeah, you're like, yeah, you're not going to die if I pass out. I get what you're saying. Like, you're. Yeah, they can use the air fryer. They can you can do all this. I was like, but now I'm going like, I have a. I have a little baby rolling around, you know, trying to, you know. Get me to be better for them. So I'm like trying to like, I feel like I'm pretty good as a as a as a person. You are as a man. Nothing's going to prepare you for that. I'm like, there's nothing that's that I have to focus on that way. But I'm like, man, how am I going to? How am I going to give them more than that I've had? And not materialistic things, but like I'm going to make them a better person. Yeah. Well, and that stuff is the. That's what makes me anxious. It's never like taking care of the baby. You may not have any control over that. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I. Be a Caroline. We were talking about this before the podcast when she came on. And she was like, I found out I was pregnant and I started crying because. And I get it. Like, you know, she's got older kids that are. So I was telling her I've got a 23 and a 16 year old. I'm done. He's like, so you wouldn't like cry if you had a. If you found out that you were pregnant right now. And I was like, I mean, I don't think I would cry. I think it would be like the anxiety of fuck, I'm start. I'm restarting the clock. But. I'm in such a better place now to have a child like mental. All of the things that I then. I mean, my my daughter was born when I was 21 years old and my son 29 about your age. So I was still fucking. I am still a moron, but I was such a bigger fucking moron. Yeah. You know, back then. So and she like looked at me for a minute. She goes, you just changed my perspective on that. Thanks. I was like, I mean, it is what it is. Yeah. Like I was one of the first meatheads to have a kid. Yeah. Of my friend group. Like and so like I became this authority on like, but hey, dude, what do I expect? And how do you do it? And I'm like, bro, I cannot prepare you. Yeah. I cannot. I. Because money isn't a thing because it doesn't matter what you make, whether you're a millionaire or whether you're making ten dollars an hour. You're going to make that shit happen for that kid. No matter what financially. It's the least of your worries, but. I cannot tell you in words and I never will how different your life is going to be the instant that kid comes out of the womb. I was thinking about that the other day. Uh, I think we were driving back from her, uh, her doctor appointment. And I was like. Kind of questioning myself. I was like, do I feel different? Like, I know, I know what I haven't been having a baby. Seeing the baby, you know, on the ultrasound, I was like, like I'm the gravity of the situation is still there. Sure. But I still feel like I'm like, you're not seeing, you're seeing fucking sonar Doppler radar, baby. Cause it's still in there. It's it's safe. Yeah. It's like, it's like I'm watching TV right now. Yeah. That's what it feels like. I mean, it's for, for real, dude. And, you know, she asked me and she's like, you know, you're gonna cry when the baby's wearing, I was like, probably, I don't, you don't know. You don't know. Like, I mean, you're, it's such a fucking worldly shock. Yeah. You may even cry without you even knowing that you cried. Like that's how fucking nuts it is. Yeah. It was like, holy shit. That's a human being. It was like pure adrenaline and like, you know, you're in shock of like, I was like, yeah, then you go into, I did that shit. Yeah. What's up? Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, you know, that's, I'm excited. You know, I think I have, we have a great family. You know, we have a good dynamic between like us, the kids. And then, like my, I know my parents, my, my siblings are ecstatic. Yeah. I have two nieces, one that was born in December. And so she's our little, our little girl, I think we have a little girl. Yeah. You know, so at least they'll have some, some cousins that are close in age, and then actually my cousin, he's a four days, four days older than I am, we live across the street our whole life. And he's a, he's having twins. Fuck. And he just found out. And so, and yeah, when I told Carol that she was like, I would die. She was like, she was, she was like, because she thought she was going to, everybody keep putting in her head that she was going to have twins. Cause you know, she's had kids before. So she got, she got just showing a lot quicker. Yeah. And so everyone was like, oh, she's going to have, you got two babies in there. And she was like, don't say that. Don't say that. It could be triplets. And God, no, but I would be excited, but I'd be like super, I'd be way more, more anxious and scared than I am now. But I couldn't imagine having fucking twins or triplets. Yeah. Like I said, I'm a twin. And so that was the other thing that came in. So she was like, but you know, we are fraternal. So we don't look alike. So Caroline was like, she's like, that's different. Y'all aren't, you know, that's two different eggs or whatever. Yeah. Like, but, uh, yeah, I'm excited for, for, I'm excited for the baby to like, to be able to have at least half siblings that are, that are older. It's going to be like a little bit of a, you know, some age gap there. But, um, I know the, the baby's going to be so loved and so taken care of. And it's going to. You got built in babysitters, bro. I was going to say that, but. Or how long have you all been together? You and Caroline? We have gathered since February of 2020. Is that four? 23. I'm like, dude, I'm trying to think what time it is. Like, you know, 23. And how long you've been sober? Like four. So I got one question for you. How have you seen? So did y'all meet when y'all met? Y'all met when she was in rehab, right? Which, which she was working when she was working. Okay. How have you seen the change in her from then to now with her continuously working on herself? She just gets better every day. And like, uh, you gotta say that shit. Yeah. Like I was like, I was like, I was like, she does, but I was like, she's right there. You better say that. Act like she's not here, so never see this. No, yeah. Yeah. She gets better every day, but you know, but like there are times where like, you know, she's, she's gone through some shit and, you know, she's buckled where she's been like, you know, told me she's like, man, like I want to fucking get high. And, uh, thank God she hasn't. Right. You know, uh, well, that's where it's, thank God you're there too. Right. Thank God that you're not also in recovery. Yeah. Because like, you know, that's hard whenever someone says that. Yeah. Especially if you're thinking that on some shit too, might be like, fuck, let's, let's go have a one off. Yeah. And like, you know, I come in and you know, when she's had those moments, um, I'm at least able to be there. And like, because I've worked in the field, I was like, I can't, yeah, I know precursor stuff. I know, I know, like, I know what to look for, you know, and how to intervene in a way. She's a little bit harder to deal with sometimes because she, she doesn't say it. She doesn't express her feelings like that. Yeah. She's one of those like, I, I know, because what she's been through, you know, y'all heard, you know, her last week, you know, she's been through a lot of stuff and she did it on her own. And so she's a strong person where she's like, I don't need to fucking go to someone to help me, you know, get through this. And so the good thing about that, since she is like, that's a catch 22 where I'm like, I don't hear, she didn't say anything because she doesn't need to. And then, but when she does say something, I was like, oh, this is like, that's when you, that's when you really got a little. This is, I was like, I really have to listen and just be here. And I'm able to reframe, you know, her mind a little bit. I'm like, what's different this time than all those other times that you were feeling like this? Yeah. Yeah. All this time back then. And the good thing is I am able just to be there to support, just to listen. Yeah. But she's, you know, as far as I've known her, she's been the same person. Her essence hasn't changed. You know, she's always, you know, she's pretty blunt. She'll tell you how she's feeling. It's not going to sugarcoat it. Pretty direct. I like that. And sometimes it scares me. Cause I'm like, oh, shit. What do I say to that now? Cause I got, I'm a, how can I soften the blow kind of person? Right. And she's like, I'm going to throw it as hard as I can at you, catch it or drop it. Yeah. And, you know, thankfully I've been able to catch him. Yeah. Yeah. But she's been good. It's been really good. Getting stronger and stronger. It's getting stronger and stronger. She, you know, her main thing is like, she's, I just want to be the best person I can be for, for her and for the kids. For me, I'm second. You know, I'm like, you know, uh, think a little afterthought on that, but she's, she just wants to be the best version of herself that she can possibly be. Yeah. Um, and myself as well. You know, I want to help get her there. And then I want to be the best version I can be for them. As far as our relationship goes, like there's always like, I think of a, you know, everybody says like, oh, like they're my rock. They're like, you know, they really hold me down. Uh, the way I've always looked at our stuff is it's a little different because I'm like, we don't want to hold each other down or hold each other back. I think of us as like, you know, she's a sale and I'm a sale on a ship because we want to continue to be able to push us forward and just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, uh, the rock thing, I forget who said it in here, but my rock can't be a living human being. Yeah. It can't be because life is fragile and it just is what it is, man. Like that person can go away for one reason or another. Yeah. I think you said it. That's where he talked about God being his. Yeah. God's got to be his rock because, and that all that, because people come and go and people die, people. That's what, but that's what I mean more than anything is like accidents happen and people pass away as we were told last week. Yeah. Right. I mean, and when you make a human being your rock and it gets taken away, I think we talked about it earlier, the peaks and valleys, right? That fucking valley comes at you real quick. Oh yeah. When you're leaning on other human beings. That's why it's got to be, um, Chris talked about the triangle of, uh, body, mind, spirit. He's like, they're all a rock in there and they're all attached by rubber bands. And you've got to try and keep it as triangular as possible. Yeah. But when one rock starts getting pulled to type the tension to the other two or, you know, so you've always got to find that balance. So, um, that was a, that would, that's what I would, it's what I just heard from you with the sale thing. Just another way of saying it. Yeah. I got, I was like, a healthy relationship should be two individuals that decide to be together and to continue to work with each other instead of like, you know, I don't want to lean completely on her because then she's going to fall. Yeah. Um, vice versa. And so I want to be able to push her, propel her further and likewise. But at the end of the day, I'm the one that's got to, you know, poise the sale. Right. Yeah. I got to be the one to, you know, put things in action vice versa. Um, and that's just, I think that's, I think we have a really good, uh, little good thing going, you know? Yeah. Well, again, she's sitting right over there. You got to say shit like that right now. Next time we're going to have you on, she won't be here. You'll be like, I was fucking lying about everything. Like, help me. You've seen that video. There's, there's this guy, he's a, his girlfriend's recording him and he's either in a little apartment, um, eating at a table and she's like, who bought you all that? He's like, you did. He's like, he's like, uh, he's like, yeah, I love her so much. And I was like, yeah, with her being right there. I was like, and it's all jokes, but like, I do really feel these things, but yeah, I can see her like staring. Yeah. Like she's like, you mother fucker, you better say the right thing. There's so many people that are kind of, there are so many people going to watch this, so you better say, I'd. Yeah. It's funny. Well, I think we got another one in the bag here, dude. We really appreciate you coming on and coming on so quick after, uh, just being here, we were, we were so fucking bummed that you like didn't come in and watch. Yeah. I was like, at the same time I was doing some school stuff in the cars. At least I was productive. Fuck that. You got to stop being a nerd, man. You got to fucking just cut like you fucking dork dude. Like come in here and sit in and chop it up. Like, no dude, we're, uh, we're super honored to have you on. After we had you in here, we were like, we got to have him on. I think that's a complete unique experience and having it back to back like that is, I think is really important. Yeah. As you've seen us, as like, I think we are very much, you know, opposite sides of the same coin, uh, everything. I'll look at like our family dynamics. I'll look at like just siblings. We're literally polar opposites. She's got three sisters, one brother. I am. Yeah. I'm, you know, three, three boys and then, uh, one sister. And it's just very, very, uh, unique to be able to see. I was like, wow, like I can really see it's like looking in the mirror, but if it was different. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good way of putting it. And, uh, we saw that kind of immediately too. You know, we heard you were straight edge and I was like straight edge. Straight edge. Like you'd never nothing. And that's fucking wild. So I don't think I've ever met an adult. It's never done something. Yeah. I, you might actually be the first to like, I've, I don't know if I've met a teenager that hasn't done something these days. I met like, I mean, being in the punk rock world and going to punk rock shows when I was a kid and dudes with X's on their hands was like, man, I saw him fucking, I was like, dude, you're on something right now. Like I can clearly tell there's not a whole lot of people out there that fucking like stay true and live that. You're still dead, man. Yeah. There's all those little, uh, same thing as I can recover your right. You have all the little, uh, little sayings. I keep coming back, work, see work, and kind of stuff like that. The straight edge movement has stuff like that, but it's, sometimes it's a little pretentious like, uh, crazy. Yeah. Crazy pretentious. How would I, I've, you, you'll, there, you'll, I think in the straight edge, like community you'll meet, you know, there's people like me. And I say that, you know, yeah, yeah. Egotistical in that. But I was like, you know, I think I'm pretty okay with anybody. I don't, I don't judge anybody. Um, how I worked in recovery. Uh, and then, uh, you'll have people that are like, you know, smoking a cigarette and they'll like think that you're the fucking devil. Yeah. And I'm like, it's better than crack. Yeah. I was like, this one's a cigarette. What's wrong? And then they'll, they'll do, I used to see people like get like beat up at shows because they're like, uh, there's be a straight edge, you know, gang or whatever, uh, and they just beat up on someone because they were, no, and I say gang. Yeah. It's not, it's not like a game. The straight edge bandits. It's not, but like, uh, but you know, actually that's really weird. Like there's, I don't even know what I was going to say on that. It's factioned. I get it. It's very, it's very factional, you know, and like, um, but you know, there's, there's stuff like that, you know, like true till death, you're not now, you never were kind of thing. And, uh, like, so that's like saying, like, you can never say, like, you can never say I was straight edge. We either are or you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, thank you for coming by brother. Um, congratulations on being upgraded to papa here in a few months. You have to come up with a name. We're arguing again about it. Well, I came up with a pretty good one last episode. I think, uh, I think baby Joey is, uh, pretty good. It's a pretty good name. Joe lean over there. Joe. Well, I'm here to tell you right now that no matter what you decide to name it on the birth certificate, that's baby Joey. All right. They kangaroo over there. Yeah. Man, that's how, that's how we're rolling. I'm calling it Joey or her, her. Yeah. You guys found out you're having a little girl. So congratulations dude. And, um, you guys are, uh, I have no doubt I'm going to want to have you guys back. And, uh, continue to talk and, and hopefully you got a little more comfortable as time ticked on here. Yeah. You look like you had a pool of diarrhea forming in your stomach before the podcast. And now you look normal. Yeah. Now it's a solid. I'm always, I'm always like that. If I go somewhere, I'm like, say, how do I, how do we interact? And then it gets better. Yeah. We were like, you want some McDonald's? You're like, yeah. No, can't eat. Yeah. It's funny, man. I was like, it's how I am. It's, it's so strange. And I know like Carolyn, Carolyn pointed out all the time to you. So be like, well, she's really, she's, she's pretty outgoing to you. Yeah. Like she doesn't matter where she's at. Yeah. She's talking to the wall. Yeah. Yeah. I'm that way too. She really did. When she signed her name up there, she did talk to it. Yeah. She was like, it was fucking crazy. I was like, she relapsed. What the fuck's going on? What's happened? Fuck. Well, let's get some pictures snapped and let's end this podcast and let's go enjoy this beautiful fucking day that we have going on. All right. Yeah. All right, man. Well, appreciate you. Two addicts and a moron. We're out of this motherfucker. Let me Joe and Seth.