From No English to 5 Clinics with Dr. Mark Gabriel DC– Chiro Hustle Podcast 766

you've made it to chiro hustle sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast this episode is brought to you by peach state payments ethical processing more profit less stress chiro hd more than an ehr projects management simplified the chiro speaking company attract educate and convert chiro spring cloud based user-friendly software with all the essential features chiropractors need. Redmond Relight, the IFCO, ChiroMoguls, ChiroHealthUSA, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Pure ChiroNotes, Tytronics, and Life West College of Chiropractic. Let's hustle. This episode of ChiroHustle is brought to you by Relight Hydration by Redmond. Here's the truth. Most Americans are walking around dehydrated, low energy, brain fog, muscle cramps, headaches, and they think they need more caffeine. When what they actually need are electrolytes. Hydration isn't just water. It's sodium, potassium, and trace minerals that help your body actually absorb and use the water. That's where Relight comes in. Made with Redmond Real Salt. No artificial junk. No neon dyes. No sugar overload. clean, balanced electrolytes designed to support hydration, muscle function, and optimal daily performance. And here's the best part. Grab their sample pack with multiple flavors so you can find your favorite. Once you dial it in, it's an easy daily habit you'll stick with for life. Chiropractors understand this. The nervous system runs on electrical signals. Electrolytes help support that communication. If you're tired or feeling drained by 2 p.m., this is your upgrade. Go to CairoHustle.com and get 25% off Relight with our exclusive promo. If you want to wholesale Redmond products, see the show notes for the wholesale application. Hydrate smarter, perform better, stay aligned. Hey guys, welcome to episode 766 of the Cairo Hustle podcast. I'm your producer, Luke Millett, and here's your host, James Chester. So today we have the opportunity of interviewing Dr. Mark Gabriel. And if you want to hear our conversation about coming from Egypt to scaling many multidisciplinary practices, stay tuned for the full episode. Welcome back. This is another episode of the Cairo Hustle podcast. Today I have Dr. Mark Gabriel on with me. He is coming out here from Rose City or Bridge City, which is Portland, Oregon and just really excited to have him on. I met him at the Cairo Congress event. We were both out there learning about how to support state associations and his leadership within the Oregon State Association. We're just going to talk a lot about chiropractic topics, marketing, multidisciplinary practices. How many clinics are you running now, Mark? I do have five right now that I run and manage. Okay. So multidisciplinary, multiple practices. And we're going to talk about insurance coverage for chiropractic and cash flow after making a multi-million dollar per year in revenue, which I think is exciting for most chiropractors to get a little taste of becoming financially abundant. and how to run multiple practices within that framework. So those are topics we're going to talk about. We're also going to talk about his origin story, about how he got into the profession. But before we get into this episode, which is 766, we're going to talk about the big why. Why do we do what we do at Cairo Hustle? Well, first things first is freedom of speech. We believe that's very important to the profession. And if anybody's out there and they've ever had themselves censored or shadow banned or traffic throttled, we'd never do that to you. So anybody we've ever interviewed, we've always aired their episode and we talk about medical freedom and family health freedom also. They're not the same things, but if you need guidance on these things, find a chiropractor in your area and go ask them for the guidance on medical freedom and family health freedom. They're very important. and a lot of people aren't experts on those topics but chiropractors are so knowing that you have resources out there go find them philosophically speaking we protect the sacred trust it's bj palmer's last written words if you don't know what that is go to our show notes check it out you're going to learn more about chiropractic than you did previously and if you know a chiropractic student that is not getting chiropractic philosophy please share the show with them. If they're a new grad, share the show with them because there's things that we're going to talk about on the show today that are going to give good influence to the young minds of chiropractors that they're not going to get anywhere else. And further down the rabbit hole, we do support subluxation-based chiropractic. I know I shouldn't have to say that, but they're removing the lexicon from the colleges. So we do also more philosophical. We support the innate intelligence. We believe in innate intelligence, universal intelligence, and the educated intelligence. We believe that when man or woman physical gets adjusted, it connects them to man or woman the spiritual. I know it sounds like a lot of woo-woo, but it's not. If you ever get adjusted, you'll get closer to yourself and you'll get closer to the creator. With that being said, this is episode 766. Dr. Mark, welcome to the show. James, thank you so much. And thank you for running Carol Hustle. Thank you for having me on the show. Yeah, I know. When I met you, you said, hey, man, I want to get on more podcasts. I go, well, let's get on mine. I really appreciate you. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here today. You said you also want to get more speaking opportunities. Yes, definitely. I've been on a mission to enhance patients' lives with trusted healthcare providers, and I have been doing this since I was pretty much three years old. So I grew up in Cairo, Egypt, as you mentioned, and I moved from Africa when I was 19 years old. And since I remember, I actually grew up working in a little pharmacy in Cairo with my mom. She's a retired pharmacist now. So I have been in healthcare my entire life. And this has been my mission to really work on enhancing patients' life since I remember. So origin story, how did you decide the chiropractic coming from, you know, Egypt at 19 to America, how did you decide chiropractic was the right path for you? Funny you ask that. I did not hear about chiropractic until I was 25. Matter of fact, I did not even speak English. You just muted yourself. There we go. So I did not actually speak English until I was 19. Didn't hear about chiropractic until I was 25 years old. And at that time, like I mentioned earlier, I grew up in a pharmacy, going to work with my mom, and this was what I was going to become. So I went to pharmacy school in Egypt. And when I moved here to the States, I realized this is not really my calling. It's not what I want to do to help people out, to help patients out. At the same time, I really wanted to be in healthcare just didn't know what I wanted to do. And I was a power lifter at the time and I hurt my back pretty severely doing a bed deadlift and couldn't really work out and things got much worse and wasn't able to like walk properly, lost a lot of mobility. And I was going to a physical therapist for about six months and didn't really help me out. So a buddy of mine saw me and from the gym and said, Hey, I haven't seen you at the gym. Are you okay? What's going on? And you can see that I wasn't okay. And I told him the story and he said, go to my chiropractor. And I went to the chiropractor and three months later, I'm back at the gym. I'm lifting again. I started competing again. And the rest is history. I just decided this is what I really want to do for the rest of my life. Really fun story, man. I'm glad you got improvement. Yeah. And so how old were you before you actually spoke English? Nineteen. Nineteen. Yeah. What was it like to come to a country where you didn't speak the language? A life-changing experience. I would recommend everybody to try it. It really changes how you interact with people, how you perceive the world. it changes you fundamentally on how you think about the outside of your circle because the bubble gets much bigger and the way your brain works is in a completely different way to function. But yes, it was definitely a culture shock. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just impressive to me that you came no knowledge of how to communicate. And I guess my real question is like, how did you get around and how did you like order food or how did you get like accommodations? Yeah, all of these. It's so funny you said that. So I came here 2001 and it was two months prior to 9-11. So you can see just how the culture shock was a couple months later. And it was actually July of 2001. And my dad had already lived here for about maybe 11 or 12 years prior. So I did have some support system. I came here to stay with my dad and I came here to live with my dad. And we went to the social security office. I remember this until like, I will remember it for the rest of my life. This interaction that I had, I was outside of the social security office waiting for my number to be called in. And while I'm waiting, somebody walks by asking me for the time. and he said, what time is it? And I just looked at him and I just didn't understand what he was saying. He was like, you have bad communication skills. And he just walked away. And this forever changed my life. I decided this is really one thing that I really need to improve and really need to master. And again, communication is a very hard thing to master. You continue learning every single day for the rest of your life. But it was something that really flipped the switch to me. I think when you get a chance to speak on more stages, that's your anchor message. Thank you. I will definitely use that. Is understanding that communication, it doesn't always have to be your first language. It's your intention around it that creates the message that you'll eventually tell. Definitely. So chiropractic students, do you meet many of them? Yes. So as part of the Oregon Compractic Association board member, I was actually appointed as the liaison for the association at one of the colleges that we have here in the Pacific Northwest, and it's called the University of Western States. So I communicate with students all the time. Since I was allowed to host students as preceptors, I have hosted at least one student per quarter for the last maybe 10 years. Wow. So what's the most important message that you can tell these students or other students that might listen to our show? the university's job is to give you the knowledge and education to give you a degree so you can be able to practice it is not their job to teach you practice management and how to practice so the in every relationship that we do have there's always going to be something that you expect and something that you give. So you're giving to the university right now your attention and your ears, whether you're actually young or older, and you're going to give a lot of money to the university so you can be able to get the degree. And expectations are going to be one, two, three, four, five. So if you're expecting you're going to get practice management out of the university, it's not a fulfilled expectation. You're always going to be resentful for this relationship But as long as you able to actually appreciate and be grateful for the education and the knowledge you getting to become a health care provider a leader in your community a member of society who producing who actually giving jobs to other people and running teams or being part of a team you going to be more successful than just being resentful for what you did not get. That's great perspective. What's your message to them on marketing? On marketing. Marketing is one of the most important things to do in a practice. As a starting doctor, if you're going to go on your own, And I remember I started the practice back in 2012. And at that time, my practice was just one room and it was inside of a gym. There was no windows in it. I had a table that I borrowed from a buddy of mine. And I'm grateful to this guy. He's a naturopathic doctor now and a great, great human being. And I'm grateful to this guy for the rest of my life because he let me borrow his table so I can start a practice. and the rent at that time was $200 a month for the room and the deposit was $200 and all I had in my pocket after I paid the $400 was $200 in my pocket. So I printed postcards and I was actually going around town giving them to people in their hands because I just did not have any more money to actually post them. So being out there to market is very, very important. By the way, giving people postcards in their hands did not really work. So I didn't have a single patient for the first 28 days of practice until I actually had a breakthrough. But I would say marketing should be at least 50% of your time should be spent on marketing until you have a fully developed marketing department. What was your breakthrough? It was communication. Yeah, it was really communication. You graduate as a student and or if we're going to be talking to students, students graduate and they think, well, they have hands and it's called chiropractic. So you practice with your hands and then people have spines. It should just click. But it doesn't really work this way until you learn how to communicate with people, how to actually get them to trust you, how to build that rapport. how to get somebody to talk to you about their issues. So communication is a huge thing and marketing is a huge thing. So those are two of the fundamentals within chiropractic that they probably don't teach when they get that education, right? No, we call it patient education, right? Because this is what we call it in schools. and besides the fact that it is patient education, it's salesmanship. It's being able to really take care of yourself, being able to build yourself. You always need to continue to learn and grow so you can be able to improve your communication skills. So I started taking classes for communication classes and practice management classes. Very shortly after I opened the practice. And again, I didn't have any experience. There was no support. I changed the garbage at night. And then I did the billing myself. And by the way, I wrote every number on the HECFA form to bill out myself. Because I didn't have money to actually have a software to do it. and once I took those classes and of course I was busy you're always busy right but when you say that you're busy you don't really have the brain the brain capacity to think and develop and create so you're always thinking you're busy and you don't really get to grow and at that time I thought I was very busy and I was seeing about 20 patient visits per week. And by the way, we're going to talk a lot about numbers because this is one of the things that really, it doesn't define success, but it actually measures certain performance indicators. It's called KPIs for a reason. And you know how many podcasts you've done, right? Mm-hmm. Right, because the success of any organization is built on the great story, like we're talking about philosophy. We talk about chiropractic, and we're passionate about it. And at the same time, the success of the numbers is another part of it. And at that time, like I said, I was seeing about 25 patient visits per week, and I took classes. And that number jumped from 25 to 80 in three weeks. same room no windows same table nobody else working with me so the practice quadrupled in three weeks for nothing changed except for the way that i communicated with patients so growth how long did it take you before the gym clinic to the next iteration of your practice? The gym stayed for about a year and a half. At that time, we were seeing about 120 visits per week out of that room. And again, there was zero overhead, right? And then we moved to an eight-room practice, which until today, it has stayed at eight rooms. And that's been about 11 going on 12 years right now for that practice. So a year and a half to the next location. Correct. And then how did the growth pattern happen after that? Because I know you said you have five practices and right so at that time part of the mission was to really we want to heal people and part of healing people is making sure that they get to achieve their goals and 85 90 percent of people did and the 10 percent did not and part of being a perfectionist or entrepreneur or all of the above is how can I serve these 10%? What else can I do to really get to that? If you're a student and you listen to this and you really care about that A plus and it really bothers you, this is really where it became a thing that I wanted to help more people that didn't get better and added on more services and more providers and more practitioners to help me to help patients. And once it got to a point that I said, well, I cannot really do both, run the practice and take care of patients. So the mission, of course, stayed the same, but it changed with what I do in the organization. So I was able to step back and really help multiple providers to help multiple patients. And that way I was able to really grow the practice into delivering the message and delivering that mission. I think it's really cool to hear the entrepreneurial story. Because there's a lot of people out there that don't realize how challenging it can be to transition and to level up. and to change, and to change roles. Because so many times people think that they have to be the ones that do the same thing over time forever. Otherwise, they're not doing the job. It's really interesting you say that, James, because it depends on, there are multiple factors, and there is a lot to unpack on your statement here. The first thing is the way that you identify yourself is, for example, James, how do you identify yourself? I'm talking about what you do, how you identify, when you introduce yourself to people, what do you say? I run the number one podcast in the world for chiropractic. This is amazing, right? So it's going to depend again on how I introduce myself to others, right? I own and manage and run multidisciplinary practices. now i did not say i'm a chiropractor i did not say that i'm a chiropractic physician because this is my role now in the organization versus if and again some people do what they do best with their their identification because we're not just like james you're not just running the number one podcast for chiropractic you are a human being. You like to do things. You're a hiker. You're an athlete. You actually do other things as well. Well, I think one of the things, Dr. Mark, is that I'll just bring this home for you. I've never edited a show. I've never posted a show. And I've been doing this for eight and a half years. So I've always stayed in my lane to do the thing that I do best and the thing that I like to do the most and I built a team around myself also. So I think that the worst thing for anybody to ever consider is thinking they have to do it all. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're absolutely right about that. 100%. So how many providers do you have working with you now? We currently have 15 providers. How has their lives improved by being inside of your system? we everybody of course has a different goal different aspirations everybody that i sit down with we identify those goals and we make sure they achieve it whether it is going to be growth we have providers that were able to achieve growth by 300 percent over the first year of working with and we had providers that were able to run a multidisciplinary practice. We have providers that were able to really hound their skill set and we have providers that got to enjoy going out on vacations and being able to really enjoy time with their families and have multiple children if this is what they needed and all these things that are different for different providers. And we have providers that wanted to go from working seven days a week to three. and we're able to achieve these goals for them. That's cool. So you take everybody as an individual. Correct. Absolutely. It's not just a one size fits all. Yes, there are certain things that we want to be able to control and certain things that we just can't because everybody's different. I know that the first thing that we do when we take a look at a practice is that we actually look into a deep dive with the practitioner or with the practice and do a full audit on how they perform their communication skills, their production, their patient business, their marketing strategies, everything that they do. And then from there, we look at their aspirations and potential. What is it that you like to do? And what is it that you really want to do? What are your aspirations? And then we can be able to have a custom strategic plan for growth, which is going to be, sometimes it takes six months, sometimes it takes a little bit longer because everybody's different in the way they implement the knowledge. And then the main thing is always about service expansion and just potential growth because once you see how big the potential is of making an impact in your community, you just cannot retract from that. You've made it to ChiroHustle. Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. This episode is brought to you by a peach state payments, ethical processing, more profit, less stress Cairo HD more than an EHR projects management simplified the Cairo speaking company attract educate and convert Cairo Spring cloud user software with all the essential features chiropractors need Redmond Relight, the IFCO, Cairo Moguls, Cairo Health USA, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Pure Cairo Notes, Tytronics, and Life West College of Chiropractic. Let's hustle. Hey docs, let me ask you something. Are you adjusting patients but not adjusting your revenue? Because a lot of chiropractors are still undercharging without even realizing it. They're accepting insurance allowances that are just too low. And they're hesitant to raise the fees because they're worried about pushback from patients. The problem is when your fees and financial systems aren't aligned, it creates a slow leak in your practice. And when you try to grow more marketing, more patients, maybe even another location, the leak gets bigger. There's actually a smarter way to handle this. ChiroHealth USA helps chiropractors charge appropriately when insurance is available while still serving cash or limited benefit patients through a compliant discount medical plan. The results? Many practices see revenue increases around 15 to 20 percent without adding more visits. Same patience, better margins, more freedom. If you want to stop leaving money on the table and build a practice that's both profitable and compliant, check out chirohealthusa.com to learn more. Well, if you had to go back in time and change one thing, what would it have been? letting go of control earlier because i really thought that i am good at doing this and only this like you said earlier right and once i learned that when the vision and the mission is so clear everybody on the bus is going to actually be able to ride with you and you don't have to be the driver of the bus and the everything that has to do with the bus and the mechanic and the painter and like everything that has to do with like maintenance of the bus as well yeah one of the analogies i use all the time is does the guy that make the car sell the car no no it doesn't no it doesn't it's so true and then i say well does the guy that sells the car fix the car? No. No. Right. And there's different disciplines within the car industry. Yes. And if you think about the fundamentals within the chiropractic profession, there's also that you can use that same analogy within the chiropractic profession. You know, does the person that schedules the visit adjust the patient? And does the person that adjusts the patient do the billing? Maybe. Definitely should not. Maybe sometimes. Earlier in their career, like you, they did. Absolutely. And I think there's different roles than responsibilities as you grow and scale. And you have to understand that from all perspectives and all resources. You have to grow and evolve with the seasons. and I think that there's an old saying that people do things for a season, a reason, or a lifetime. That is so true. And I think there's times when you have to be in that season of growth and solopreneurship, but you also have to be in that season sometimes of releasing control so you can have the best life for yourself and provide for others to have the best lives for themselves. So the reason is growth. The reason is helping more people. And then you have to think for lifetime, you know, like why do people decide that they're going to choose to be with you? Well, they must have the season, the reason, but what is the lifetime for them and how can you retain good people for a long time? And really, I think that that's the essence of being in your role is creating that lifetime responsibility for people to where they find themselves in a unique situation to where they find home. and they can provide for themselves, and they can find purpose, whether it's three days a week or seven days a week. Right, absolutely. I know one of the topics you wanted to tackle today was insurance coverage for chiropractic. Give me your perspective on this. The taboo topic, insurance or not. insurance pretty much has not been a thing until i want to say early to late 1940s and prior to that all doctors used to go to people's places and treat them there and And about 11 years ago, I was actually working for a naturopathic school as a mentor for them. And they sent me on a trip to go to Indonesia. So while I was there, and of course, I didn't speak the language there. So everybody would ask me, where are you from? I said, I'm from Egypt. And they said, where is that? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, you haven't heard where Egypt is? And it was baffling. and I learned later that they call it Misr which is the name of Egypt in Sanskrit and then a couple of guys asked me later so what do you do for a living so I figured well if they don't know what Egypt is I'm not going to say I'm a chiropractor so I said I'm a bone doctor right and they said oh we have a bone doctor too I was like where is this guy at and he was two hours uphill working out of a temple. And of course, I said, I'm going to have to go visit this guy. So I go spend a couple of days with this 80 years old chiropractor. And he ran a temple in a very small village outside of Ibud, which is in Bali. And of course, like I did not really speak the language. He did not speak English. He got the knowledge from the gods when he was 40 years old and he's fourth generation chiropractor. And this guy sits down on the floor outside of the temple. And he has about 30 or 40 people in a semi-circle sitting on the floor in front of him. And then they would come to him, give them a card. And then from that card, he would look at it, throw it on the side, and he would adjust the patient on the floor and they would just walk away. And he smiles, looks at me and he smiles and the next patient comes through. And he did this 40 times in about an hour and a half with a smile on, without any issues. Didn't do any paperwork, did not do any HICFA forms filling and he did not accept insurance. And this brought joy to him and everybody around him. And I know that this is like a very long-winded story to get to the insurance question or the answer of the insurance topic. We, as providers, started working for insurance companies since the 80s. And insurance companies figured this out. We no longer work for patients if we accept insurances. We work for the insurance company because we have to do paperwork. We have to spend time to fill out forms. We have to get prior authorization from the insurance company. And we became okay with that. So it became mandatory that if you have insurance, you're going to see a chiropractor. Now, I'm not saying we don't accept the insurances. We accept the insurances. This is my personal opinion about it. And I do have a lot of personal opinions as well. At the same time, insurance is right now figured out that it's not a sustainable model for multiple reasons. Chiropractors don't really make enough money to move the needle right or left as far as insurance decisions. We don't really go and lobby to a point where we say, hey, I want you to change this law. because insurance is lobby with multiple other resources with more money, with more resources to be able to really change laws that way. And healthcare providers cannot really do that. So MDs and DOs and everybody else sold to hospitals. If we continue down that path, I don't know where we're going to be. Now, this is one opinion about insurance. And regarding the other opinion is if you actually have the way, if you have the passion and if you love what you do and if you know how to communicate it very well, yes, you can run a practice without accepting insurance. At the same time, you cannot serve everybody if you're not accepting insurance. Well, I think a lot of it comes down to the fundamentals is that the consumer, how you say you work for the insurance company by doing their pre-offs and their system and their paperwork. Also, the consumer, the patient wants to use the product that they believe that they pay for, for the services that they feel like they deserve. So there's also this entitlement era of the end user saying, hey, I pay out of pocket and they take it out of my account every month. Damn it, I'm going to use my thing and damn it, you're going to take it. Otherwise, I'm not going to come to you. You're absolutely right. There's a salesmanship from the insurance agent or the HR department person, and they're going to tell the employee or the person who's buying insurance, I'm giving you the best option ever. This is the best insurance you're going to have. So if you're actually selling mattresses and you tell the person who's going to buy the mattress from you, this is the best mattress ever, you're going to go tell all your friends what? I bought the best mattress ever. So with the same token, you're going to go to the provider and you're going to say, well, I have the best insurance ever. And yes, you do, because this is the best that this person was able to sell you. But it doesn't really cover anything anymore. yeah so i think there's always the buyer beware yes be beware of what you accept as a provider and beware what you purchase as a consumer so and i think that um all wheels keep moving forward and people just want to get better and people want to feel better but they also want to control the communication of how they want to accept what you're delivering to them. So we have a very confused marketplace, I think. Yes. How do we bring clarity to it? The message has to be very clear that I am here to change your life as a provider. I am not here to work for the insurance company. I'm here because I want to heal you. So if you take, this is something that I actually used to say to patients, right? And I do have just a card here. I'm going to use this as my insurance card. If I take this insurance card right now and go to the insurance building downtown, and it's going to be one of the biggest buildings probably in any downtown in your city. And you give them this insurance card and you say, hey, listen, I have this insurance card. Can you please fix my back? What are they going to say to you? No, we don't do that. Right. So I'm not going to talk about insurance right now. Let's take this and put it here. I'm here to talk about you as a patient and how to heal you and how to heal your back. Can we talk about that? And let's forget about the insurance. Now we can talk as human beings. Now I can actually work for you and give you the care that you deserve I not working for these guys Makes sense And this is how we can break that barrier on an individual level at least. Yeah, I just think that we have to do a really good job of pre-framing people's expectations. Absolutely. And allowing them to not feel like we're judging them or we're rejecting them. We have to let them know that the system that you're buying into just doesn't work for what we provide. And you can see this on a bigger, on a larger scale where a lot of bigger corporations are doing their own subscriptions right now for healthcare. and now you're getting a different tier of care that is going to be premium and better because you're paying more into that subscription at the same time like on doesn't mean that it'll keep you alive no no no that is so true right yeah it's not it doesn't really mean that it's going to be better. It makes you feel it's better. On a larger scale than the individual, what I really would love to do and recommend is to have more providers go into their representatives, go into their legislators. And it's not just with your voice, It's with your checkbook. And in order for us to do that and have an impact, we really need to grow to a certain point that we're able to affect how the needle is going to tip. Unfortunately, the health arena is definitely the political arena. Right. like we just need to separate the two to where it's actually delivering what's best for that person in front of you like you were saying yes because if not there's a power struggle and people just don't get better anyways yes it's ego and system over results yes you're absolutely right yeah i think we we we definitely covered the insurance topic there pretty darn well who are some of your mentors who helped you become the doctor you are today everybody that i have encountered over the last man i'm gonna age myself right now 17 years since i actually got into chiropractic school has definitely shaped and changed my life and i'm grateful for everybody and i can mention a lot of names. Since the beginning, Dr. Don Dishman taught me how to do nerve conduction velocity studies and EMGs, and I'm grateful for that. Dr. Al-Attar taught me a lot about physiology, and he was one of my mentors who recommended me to go to Egypt and do my preceptorship there in Cairo. And that was another life-changing experience for me. There was a lot of other mentors outside of chiropractic school, Dr. David Singer, and the things that, the way that he actually communicated with people was very impactful and really changed how I communicate with others. yeah i never had a chance to meet singer but i heard he had a huge impact on a lot of people's careers oh absolutely absolutely um where's the profession headed you got multiply you got five multi-disciplinary practices out in portland area where do you see chiropractic going in the next decade. There are going to be very small offshoots that are going to succeed into the very small niche of we're adjusting the spine. And they're going to do really, really well. Besides that, it's going to be a very boutique style mom and pop shops. And we are actually the only form of entrepreneur professionals that are left out there because all the other ones are pretty much getting engulfed by bigger practices. Medical doctors are almost gone. Accountants are almost gone. and lawyers are actually getting engulfed one and two and other right now with bigger firms as well. So it will hopefully be that standalone practitioner, which is actually a really, really good model. And at the same time, that being said, it's not something that I personally prefer to see. And like I believe we are going to be more powerful in unity than not. And unfortunately, because of the fragmentation that happens from very early on in our careers as students and coming out of school. It makes us very different in so many ways that we want to. we're all mavericks right as chiropractors we are mavericks so we want to do things this way in a certain way and this is my way the right way and unfortunately it doesn't really lead to growth and it doesn't lead to the increase in that collective power if you will Yeah, I think the profession goes wherever we take it. That's so true. That's so true. Well said. We can erase everything that I just said right now. I think the profession goes wherever we take it. That's true. And if we're good, solid leaders and we stay true to the tenets of our fundamentals. Yes. And we make sure that we give good guidance to the younger generations. They're going to be ready. Yes. And the people, I believe, are more committed than ever to falling away from the big box medicine arena. and they're looking for what chiropractic is. They just don't know what it's called chiropractic at the moment. So we have to meet the marketplace where they are and let them know what they're looking for is called chiropractic. And that's the marketing of the future. That's why I told you we don't do chiropractic ads. We do joint health packages because people are looking for joint health. they just don't know that they're supposed to be going to the chiropractor for that. They think that it's a neck or back thing, not a joint thing, but little do they know that their neck and back are joints. So that's a big thing for people to start to discovering as the things that makes chiropractic unique has to be brought to the health arena in a different box for the people to want it. So I think that people are always going to look for something that can help them, but they've been led down this white coat pathway to think that it's only from these types of providers. So when they realize that the chiropractic method doesn't cut it out, drug it out, or burn it out, they're going to be more inspired because I believe that they see the house of cards tumbling with the cut it out, drug it out, burn it out method, and it didn't make their mom or brother or dad better. It actually made their lives more complicated. So I think that when people realize what chiropractic will have as an offering, as a product, the mom and pop shop will be very attractive. and the maverick attitude will be very attractive and the marketplace might not be able to consume because of the disconnect with philosophy and positioning because it's hard to take over people that aren't all in the same attitude and i think that just because of that the strong will within the profession will let it strongly stand alone still without being absorbed into a system that doesn't include chiropractic. So I think that what you're doing is very intriguing that you're leading from chiropractic and bringing other practitioners into it, which gives better influence to people to find the resources that they need without selling out to the big medical arena. Thank you. You're absolutely right, James. And I love today's conversation with you. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to talk about? Nothing. I believe we've covered a lot of topics today, and I'm really grateful and honored to be on your podcast. It's been a pleasure talking to you, and I am really looking forward to expanding our relationship and making sure that we follow up and continue working together in the future, especially that you're going to be coming to Portland and you're going to be speaking for Oregon Chiropractic Association in less than a year and a half. Yeah, I think that we have a good fundamental relationship here with our beliefs and our knowledge. And I think the world just needs good leadership and we need less ego and we need more people to work together. And really, it's not about us. It's about the people that we need to pull up with us, which is why I'm really excited that you're doing the systems that you're doing every quarter, bringing out the preceptor and actually teaching them what chiropractic is, because not only will expand your footprint in Portland and beyond, but it'll expand their footprint. And I think that that's the real win for this profession is teach the young kids what chiropractic really is as a fundamental profession and grow together. Absolutely. Absolutely right. Yeah, I'm looking forward to 2027 to come out there and speak. And thank you for being on with for episode 766 of the Cairo Hustle podcast. Really appreciate you, James. Thank you so much. If anybody has any questions or if you'd like to connect with me at all, feel free to reach out to me on Facebook, Mark Gabriel, or you can reach out to me on my website, thenextleveldoctor.com. So it's all spelled out, thenextleveldoctor.com. And feel free to schedule an appointment with me and would love to connect with anybody. And we do have an acronym that you go by for the next level doctor, and it's GRIND. It is Growth, Retain, Integrate, Nurture, and Develop. I love it. Well, let's grind together into the new year and help more people together with purpose, vision, and mission. And like they say at Dynamic Essentials, give for the sake of giving, love for the sake of loving, serve for the sake of serving out of your own abundance and expect nothing in return. And that's servant leadership. And I'm thankful that you took the chance to learn English and become a chiropractor and come to America and serve the community out there in Portland. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you for having me here, James. Well, check him out. He gave you the web resources. He gave you how to connect with him. check them out on Facebook, check them out at a next level doc.com. And I'm going to close out. Like I always do. I tell everybody you guys are just one story away. Keep hustling. I'll see you guys in the next episode. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Cairo hustle. Don't forget to subscribe and check back next week to continue hustling. .