Nightcap Hour 1: Shai & Chet TAKE DOWN the Knicks + JJ Redick DOWNPLAYS CONFRONTATION With Luka + Celtics ANTICIPATING Jayson Tatum’s RETURN + Iso Joe AGREES with Max Kellerman that MJ could average 40-Point TRIPLE DOUBLE + Mr. Tendernism JOINS Nightcap

Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver's strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals, and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent gumster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and Free Agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts. To my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now. Shoot your shot on prize picks and get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. That's right. Prize picks now is giving you $50 in lineups when you sign up and play your first $5. prize picks makes every dunk every dime every board that much more exciting so don't miss a chance to get started on america's number one app for sports picks football season was fantastic but it's time to shift gears to basketball trade deadline was exciting you know i'm rocking with la and my guys lebron and luca more points more threes more rebounds more more more new feature alert prize picks now have early payouts if your lineup gets off to a hot start you may now have the option to cash out those winnings before the game even finishes. PrizePix is simple to play. Just download the PrizePix app today. Use code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. PrizePix, it's good to be right. After watching a friend grow through a loss a few weeks ago, I saw how quickly grief turned into financial stress. No one deserves that feeling I saw him feel ever and I mean no one no matter what I offered to help it wasn't enough and I promised my family I would never make them feel the same way my buddy felt trust me that experience watching a friend go through financial stress while grieving changed how I think about protecting my own family life insurance is about expecting the worst but it's about making sure the people you love are supported no matter what that's why at nightcap we recommend life insurance through ethos ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same-day coverage. How much easier can protecting your loved ones get? There's no medical exam. Just answer a few simple health questions. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos now by going to ethos.com slash nightcap. In a little less 10 minutes, you can get a free quote up to $3 million in coverage at ethos.com slash nightcap. That's ethos, E-T-H-O-S dot com slash nightcap. Again, that's ethos.com slash nightcap. Application times and rates may vary. I can't hear nothing. Oh, well, I didn't hear no countdown or anything. Sorry about that, guys. Welcome to another episode of Night Count. Obviously, y'all know who I am. I'm your favorite up. My partner and co-host, Liberty City's own, Bengals Ring of Fame honoree, a former Pro Bowler and an All-Pro. That is Chad Ochocinco-Johnson. And the third member of the Big Three, joining us two nights a week, going to three nights a week. Y'all know him, University of Arkansas alum. Little Rock, Arkansas native, a seven-time NBA All-Star with the Atlanta Hawks, and recently nominated for the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame, here he is, ISO Joe Johnson. Joe, what it do? What's happening? What's happening, fellas? Hey, you know what I just thought about you? I can't hear you guys, but I will keep going. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button and do us a favor. Go subscribe to the Nightcap Podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts from. We would like to personally thank each and every one of you for your eyes, ears, and your word of mouth. All the support that you've shown, Uncanocho Nightcap, over the years. We could not have done it without you. We will continue to shine. We will continue to glow up only because of you. We cannot thank you enough for your support, especially over the last year. Again, thank you for your support and your continued support. Those looking to purchase a bottle of Shea by LaPortier, head over to LaPortierCognac.com if you cannot find it in a state or city near you. It is the best tasting premium VSOP cognac on the market. Try it. Compare it against other cognacs. It does not matter the make. It does not matter the brand. Just try it for yourself and you'll see. We have the best tasting premium VSOP cognac on the market. Please drink responsibly and stay safe. No. Hey, Ocho, say something. What's up? What did they do? Hey Joe, you can hear me? What's happening? Yeah. Hey Joe, I've been in the lab, Joe. What you been doing? Hey, don't worry about it. Just get that knee together. Oh, oh, oh. Get that knee together. What? Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm just letting you know. Hey, I booked my ticket too. I'm letting you know ahead of time. I booked my ticket for March 16th. I'm going to be in on the 15th so we can go to the Hulk game. What's that? That's the Magic City night? Yeah. You trying to do something about too, son. Uh-huh. I thought you said we can go. I heard you book my tickets. I'm going to make it happen. Say bless. I'm going to make it happen. I book my tickets. I frequent Atlanta maybe once a year, so this will be my one time. Oh, boy, you're going to have a good time. What you going to do? Man, you know, old neat, old, you know, if the water don't rise and, you know, don't get too high. You're going to have surgery soon. I went and saw Ortho today. I got another We'll get two opinions and see. You know, he said, you know, probably the best thing for us to go in there and get it taken care of, get it scoped, get it snipped a little bit. 15, 20-minute procedure. And we'll see what the other guy says. And so we're going to take the best of the two scenarios. The one thing I do know, we're not going to leave it as is. It's painful, and I'm not taking any pain medicine for that. So we'll get that thing resolved. And then, you know, your boy will be out there running again. You know, I'll be out there. Go ahead, Ocho. Yeah. and now we're gonna ask you a 15 20 minute procedure what's the rehab time like uh he said i'll be uh i'll be sore for about about a week ocho because anytime they go into the body oh that's it no you're gonna be sore uh but you're it's probably four to five weeks okay that ain't bad that ain't bad you know i go to rehab he said uh it's a it's an in and out procedure so you go in that morning you'll be out that day and then i do i'll start rehab the next day yeah that's because you know what I need to stop playing around and do, Unk? Like all jokes aside, Joe. What's that? I need to get this damn cataract removed by my right eye because I can't see at all. I couldn't see to begin with. Now, cataract has built up so much. My right eye, my whole right side, great. So, hey, I got a question. How in the hell do you think you're going to beat me in anything with one eye? Joe, I played my whole career with one eye. I only had one eye since 1994. Okay, I like that. Look, one thing about me, I'm going to use everything to my advantage. You gonna go to my right? If my opponent got a weakness, you best believe I'm going at it. But Joe, that's not a weakness. I played my whole career with one eye. You ain't gonna be able to keep up with that with no one eye. Joe, you too slow, Joe. Who? You 6'8". All right. All right, Ocho. Joe, I mean no disrespect, but it's gonna be real funny when they say, God damn, why that nigga Ocho gave a Hall of Famer that work. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. The Thunder go on the road in Madison Square Garden and take down the Knicks by the score of 103-100. Chet Holmgren had 28 points, 8 rebounds. Holmgren tied a career high with 6 three-pointers. Shea Gilgis had 26 points as he continued his streak of at least 20 points. I think it's 122 now. I think he's a couple of games behind Wilt Chamberlain's record, which I think is 124-126. But Chet Holmgren had 28. Shea Gill just had 26. Lou Dort had 16. That rounded out, but they did a great job. The Knicks got a valid scoring, but it was not enough. OG had 16. Carl Anthony had 17. Josh Hart had 10. Mikael Bridges had 15. Jalen Brunson had 16. And Landry Shammott had 14. But they shot terrible from the three-point line, 10 to 35. And that was really the difference in the ballgame. Shea hit a step back three. He only shot one three tonight, Joe, and they put OG on him and he drove to the basket and he snatched the pool, let that three go, and that was really the difference in the ballgame. Watching this game, Joe, you can see the Thunder are starting to feel like themselves. It looks like they're starting to gain some confidence back because they feel the best player in the NBA is on our roster now. They don't have J-Dub quite yet, but you can tell they're starting to feel themselves again heading into the playoffs. Oh, yeah. And they're not fully healthy, but they're still grinding out wins night in and night out, fellas. They just beat Chicago last night without Shea. Shea played tonight. The one thing that's glaring for me about OKC, Uncle Ocho, they guard, bro. They play defense. If you look at the Knicks, their shooting percentages was horrible. Brunson was 5 for 18. OG was 6 for 17. Mikel Bridges was 6 for 17. These dudes sit down in their chair, they move them feet, and they guard, and their defense is what fuels their offense. Now, they do have a guy in shape who can get to the bucket, get to the spots whenever he wants, and he just makes the games look easy. But I've said this from last season, even throughout the playoffs, the better Check-Hongry is, the better this OKC team will be, which can lead them to be a dynasty, meaning winning multiple championships. They look good, man. They're in a great spot. Obviously, you know, coming down to the wire with the season. They get healthy. They still going to be a scary team to deal with in the seven-game series, fellas. Hey, Uncle Joe, normally, right, when you think about basketball in general, you have every team has its identity. Sometimes it's defense. Sometimes it's offense. Most of the time, you really don't have a team where on both sides in transition, you're good on offense and defense. How the hell are they able to sit in a chair and play defense the way they do and still have the offensive prowess to score at will like they do as well. If you look – Go ahead, Joe. Go ahead. They in great shape, Ocho. They're able to play both sides of the ball. You got to be in shape. Obviously, yes, they're one of the youngest teams still in the league. So they cause a multitude of problems. And they're one of the only teams, like I've been saying, who pick up full court and wear you down in the fourth quarter to where they can still be fresh. Yeah. I think the thing is, Ocho, plus the fact that you look at it, the guys that are really sitting in the chair, those are not your guys that you're counting on to give you 20, 30 a night. Shea can play defense, but that's what you got Lou Doris for. That's what you got Caluso for. That's what you got Casey Wallace for. That's what you got those other guys for. That's what you got a seven-foot guy in the backdrop, Chet Holgren, to check anything that gets past those guys. So we know and they understand this is who we are. Isaiah Joe. Okay, Chet, I mean, Shea, shoot as many times as you like. Chet, you're our next guy, especially now that J-Dub isn't there. But when you get J-Dub back, you got another guy that can sit in the chair. They go – at every point in time in the game, they're going to have three of their five guys that can sit in the chair. Absolutely. That's at the bare minimum. Now, you mess around and go out there with Caruso, and you have Dord out there, and you have Wallace out there, and you have Joe out there. Yeah. Now you got four in your five. J-Dub was an all-defensive player. He can play defense. They're loaded. And they say, you know what? We get some really easy shots. We get some easy runouts when we turn you over. So they bought in. Everybody understands. I love the fact that when somebody does an interview, everybody's standing around. Now they might be, hey, check out my outfit. They might be shucking and jibing. But that shows the closeness and the camaraderie that they have, everybody doesn't have that. Yeah. This is a team that's to be reckoned with. As long as everybody understands their role, this is who I am. Hey, Chet, I mean, Chet got a max deal. J-Dub got a max deal. Shea got a max deal. Now, we ain't got no more max deals that can come around, Joe. We ain't got no more max deals that can come around. Everybody understands that. Now, you're going to be in a situation where you can win a lot of games and win championships, but somebody at some point in time, they're going to start picking off those pieces like you see in the NFL, Ocho. Guys start like, hold on. They winning. He's been there. He knows what it's like to win. Let me go get him and see if we can put that in our locker room. But I love the way this team plays. I love the closeness of this team and being a part of a winning culture. Guys genuinely have, normally, normally, I've been saying this always, Maybe there are situations where guys don't like each other. But all the winning that I've been a part of, guys were really, really close. They did things together. They went to the movies together. They did cookouts together. They went bowling together. They did a lot of things together. Played cards. We were constantly going to somebody's house. Be at Baltimore. We were at Ray's house. And Buffy, his mom, was cooking. Or we was in Denver. We was doing things, going to the movies, bowling. This team is close. You can tell they're close. Yeah, you can. And I think that helps them too on the court. Okay, Ocho. You know, that closings that they have together, you know, spending a lot of time with each other off the court. But I think just because they got these max contracts, I think these other guys who I would probably call them like fillers for the most part, I don't think – I think they all stay. I think even a couple of them may even take a pay cut just to stick around because just think about it. If they make it to the finals this year or if they even win another title, I mean, now they can definitely be amongst history. So I can see this team kind of sticking around for quite some time. I think it makes it easier for them to leave, Nigel, because I got two rings and somebody's going to give me five years at $70 million. You see, at what point in time, Joe, how many rings do I need? You know, I'm 26 years of age and somebody's about to drop me, you know, let's just say $70 million for five years. Somebody's about to give me $100 million for five years. And I got two rings. Well, I'm good. Now it's about securing my family to make sure everybody's great for the next 35, 40 years. So we'll see how it plays out. I mean, everybody says, oh, I want to be here, I want to be here, I want to be here. And then somebody's like, damn. Boy, that's a lot of money, Joe. Yeah. They was like, hey, you know what I think? I think ISO might want to stay in Phoenix. And Lano say, Joe, we got this little package for you over here. Come on, what you think about? I know. I like Phoenix. I mean, I have to go. Let me go. Joe say, hey, Joe, hold on. What's that? Valley, Paradise Valley. Is that in there? You got Paradise Valley, right? Ooh. They got nice homes out there. The sand, the cactus. Ooh, it's nice out there. It's nice scenery. I spent a lot of- You don't talk about Joe. nice scenery hey hey hey hey oh it's nice hey ocho hey it's nice you gotta tell me yeah scarsdale and all that yeah yeah man well i had a time when i was out there you hear me hey that's a long way boy no right right the clonal for me yeah i mean i'm just saying for me you know i'm really i'm really on the west coast i'm just just think about it obviously remember when we went to the Super Bowl in Arizona, that goddamn flight, man, Jesus Christ. From Miami? Well, everything as far as you coming this way from Miami, it's just like everything as far as coming this way. If you're on the West Coast, going East, whether it's New York, Jersey, Miami, Jersey, man, it's hell. Now, it's easy for me to go there because I got the wind at my back. But boy, when I bring my ass back, oh, Lord. That's a long flight, boy. Man, I done got up and I took me a little quick nap, go to the bathroom, four hours, four hours? Hell, I felt like I was late for three. Oh yeah. But that's the part about going overseas, Ochoa. I remember we went to Australia. Man, I done watched four movies, done took me a nap. We still got 12 hours. Yeah. Wait, how long the flight to Australia? 18 hours. That's about how that flight was. We went to China. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's a long time to be on a plane. What? Whew, Lord. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid. Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon. And wouldn't you know it, Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun Cancer Moon. The story of the sport's most consequential driver's strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out, and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricciardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both? He started getting all this attention, and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better. and plenty of other mishaps, scandals, and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stops. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, pro days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. J.J. Reddick downplayed his sideline argument with Luka Doncic saying the exchange was very normal. Video emerged showing the interaction during a Saturday's 129-101 win over the Warriors. We got the video? Take a look at this, Joe and Ocho. That's so reminiscent, boy. After being subbed out of the game, Luka avoided Reddick on the sideline, causing the coach to walk after him and Gar exchanged words with him on the bench After Reddick walked away Luka jumped up and potentially continue the argument But Jerry Vanderbilt quickly hopped up started clapping in front of Luka to de the situation Joe how normal is this Is this very normal Is this somewhat like what's really going on? Nah, this is pretty normal. I think he probably, what, he must have messed up when coach took him out. He didn't want to come out. Luka tried to get that score and tried to look. Let me tell y'all something. That's normal, bro. When you're in the game and you mess up and you can't get a chance to get back and he take you out, you know what I mean? You walk over there with a little attitude. You see he ain't want to even shake his hand. You know what I mean? That's pretty normal, Uncle Ocho. You know, you come back, you're like, man, damn all this, man. You know what I mean? Hey, Uncle Joe, I remember I had the same incident. Obviously, this is basketball. Obviously, that's a meaningful game that they're playing. but every time in the preseason Joe Joe in the preseason come you know the ones hey they said before the game start alright the ones y'all get one series and then we all coming out man who you think don't want to come out the game you everybody went off the sideline I'm the only one still on the field waiting on the twos to come in hey hey even even if you done caught a pass or not I done caught a pass or not most of the time I ain't catching them because they just you know they just doing vanilla stuff hey, Joe, I done had Coach Lewis. He done had to call a timeout to get me out the game. I refuse to come out. I'm coming to the sideline. He walking towards me. I'm going straight to the end of the bench. We laugh about it today, man, but I don't think he understood I needed to be in those preseason games. I just needed to catch that rhythm. I needed to catch that speed of the game just to get my body acclimated to it because no matter how much you practice, game day speed is completely different. no matter how much you practice. Man. I know that feeling. I think Luka wanted to get the cup. Hey, we scored easy. Luka got a quick 28 easy. Say, you know what? I'm trying to win the scoring title. And so it's game like this here, Joe. Hey, let me go on and get me a little 35. Let me go play an extra three minutes. Let me get me three more minutes. Right. And then I'll come sit on the sideline. JJ probably thinking, nah, in that three minutes, a lot can happen. You must rather step on somebody's ankle. Somebody hit you, do this, and get out of the ball game. because, you know, the thing is, like, when you got it going good, you know, Joe, you know you got it going good. And they say, hey, man, you know you got this many yards. Really? Man, I go in there and get me one catch. I'm going to get one catch. I did this in college. I said, Coach, I said, Coach, all I need is one catch. I need one catch. I'm going to have 200. I said, Coach, I'm going to catch it. I'm going to go out of bounds. He's like, all right, home, we're going to throw you one. Joe, he threw me that smoke right I faced up, down the sideline. I win. You were gone. Hey, Joe, do coaches understand, especially it might be different when it comes to basketball. If Luke is in rhythm, if Luke is hot, maybe JJ's not thinking about him being able to get that scoring title and wanting to come out the game. Don't they have some type of situation or understanding, like, let me stay in, like maybe eye contact while he's in the game and say, I'm good right now. Just let me be. Man, them coaches be aware. They be aware of what's going on, Ocho. Don't let them fool you. Don't let them fool you and think that they don't know what's going on. They got people on the sideline that's telling them, hey, Joe got four fouls. Ocho got five fouls. Shannon got two fouls, so he good. They got people that study giving you that information. You know exactly what's going on. Yeah, Ocho need 10 more points. He'll have 20,000 points or something like that. They know, bro. They know. So, yeah, they know he in for the scoring title. Right. For sure. Hey, but Joe, if they know he in for the scoring title, why would you take him out? I mean, whose side they on? I don't know, Ocho. Look, the thing is, the last thing that you want to have happen. You leave him in there, you're already up 30 points, Ocho and Joe. And you know what comes with that. And he must run and get hurt. They're going to say, why was he in the game? Right. And then you're going to say, man. I got you. Oh, really? So now you let a guy put his selfish needs, trying to win a scoring title over the bigger, more important needs, which is the playoffs. So I see both sides of the equation. I've been on both sides of the equation. I remember we've played the Chiefs. Mike took everybody out. They came up there and told Mike, Shanna has six for 99. 84. I done took my helmet. I don't know, strapped my shoulder pad. Because we already beaten, we already beaten, we at home. Already done the toughness. 84, you back up. I was like, huh? You need a yard for 100. Okay. Let me get on back in there, Ocho, and we did 100. 100 look better than 99. Right, right. So we're going to run something simple. We're going to run a boot, down flat. Watch the end down to the A gap. Go to the flat. rots the air down to the to the A gap and he don't throw it to me on timing he tried to pump pump throws it late he gets picked oh man oh that's a boy man Mike boy Mike turns so red I said lord have mercy I'm like bro I'm sorry but you should have threw it to me the first time but I see both sides of the equation because sometimes like when you're in a rhythm Ocho and Joe you know this in basketball Joe that thing cooking and you can't you can't do no wrong you shooting off wrong foot you don't matter what you throwing stuff up there it's going in and you getting and ones and everybody know Luca can heat up I mean he don't need to see but a few go into the basket and that's your way that's it Yeah. That's it. He see a few more in the basket. First of all, his first shot going to be a three. He going to check it. He going to get that step back. He going to pull you and he going to shoot that step back. Don't let him see it go in. A couple of them go in now because you got your hands. Oh, yeah. You got your hands. So, I understand. But, like, you know, J.J. just left the game, what, Joe, what, five years ago? Yeah. Probably about five. Yeah. So the thing is with him, he knows. You give these guys a little leeway. It's not like you wouldn't dare do no stuff like them old school, like a Phil or Pat Riley, that stuff like that. Oh, no. They ain't going to go for that. Hey, hey, hey. Even Unk said when he was in college, his coach let him go back in there. Shh. Coach Nolan Richardson ain't having none of that. I don't give a damn. How many points you got? You sit your ass right over here with me. This game. That was the only time. That was the only time he ever done that. Because I remember we played, it was my senior year. And, you know, obviously, you know, we want to have a good season, you know, try to make the playoffs. But, you know, Scouts are going to be there. Sterling Sharp's little brother, a two-time All-American, conference player of the year. We want to see what he put on. Man, Ocho, I was like, man, I was in peak shape. I'm talking about, hey, done worked out. I didn't have to work in the fields. I didn't have to do no work. Hey, I'm just training. Right. I'm good. I show up, I'm 228. I'm talking about, ugh. Chisel. Got in a fight with a sword and lost. Cuts everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Cut like a small bag of dope. That's what I'm looking like. That's what I'm looking like. I'm just saying. That's between us now. So I go out there in the first half. We had halftime. I got like, I got five catches for a buck 50 and two touchdowns. We up 30 to nothing. So I'm saying to myself, I'm about to get me 300. I said, they throw me another five. I'm going to get 300. Right. Man, Coach talking about. He said, home, home, you done for the day. I said, come on, Coach. At that time, I had never had a 200-yard game. Nah, home, you done. Man, he told me after the game, he pulled me aside after the game. He said, son, you got the best chance of any player I ever coached to be great at the next level. Son, if something happens to you, I'll never forgive myself. I thought about it. I was like, all right, coach. But I showed that about five games later. I never had a 200-yard game, Ocho, and then I came and strung three of them things back to back to back. There you had 200 back to back? I went six. I went seven for 221. I went nine for 202, and then I go 10 for 205. God damn I sprinkled him like a simple buck 54 and three tubs in there too yeah this all in one season yeah oh yeah well we're eating one oh nine games I had 13 on the yard nine games 18 touchdowns damn well you would have been over if I played hey Joe I would have locked on your ass up you gotta realize think about Ocho you see me because I'm a receiver I'm getting off the bus I'm 6'2 225 and I'm talking about yeah ready for a different take on formula one look no further than no grip a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series join me Lily Herman as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1 including the astrology of the current grid. Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon. Wouldn't you know it, Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon. The story of the sport's most consequential driver's strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out, and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricciardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both? He started getting all this attention, and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better. And plenty of other mishaps, scandals, and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stops. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, pro days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With a shield. I had a shield back then. I had a shield. Yeah. Had it. You know, Joe, remember we used to have them great cutoffs? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so bad. That's so bad. Looked like I had tennis balls in my stomach. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying? like i swallowed my five or six tennis balls been out there in that sun so i'm good and crispy looking like charcoal you know what i'm saying i'll leave fingerprints on charcoal that's how black i was ocho but i was tore up but man i get it I get Luca's point of view. I also get JJ's point of view. I do. Because remember, Joe, the previous game, they played Phoenix, and he struggled shooting the ball, remember? Yeah, yeah. So he said, hey, this is my get-right game. Right. That bounce back. Yeah. So I'm not surprised by this. I'm not surprised by JJ's response to this. I don't know if anybody's ever been around JJ. I've been around him a little bit. Yeah, he's a feisty personality like most guys from Duke are. Yeah, I love Kyrie. You go back and look at Kristen Layton. You look at Bobby Hurley. You look at JJ. You look at Grayson Allen. You look at those guys. They got a little edge to them. So I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that Luka responded in the way that he did, but I'm also not surprised that they ended up taking him out of the ball game. The anticipation for Jason Tatum's return is building in Boston. There's circumstantial evidence is piling up to suggest that it's going to happen any day now. If Tatum had to decide to set out the season, it would have given himself about 17 and a half months of layoff before the next season kicks off mid-October. Basically, the same timeline as Kevin Durant. But should Tatum suit up for the Celtics this week through, he'd be returning in about 10 months after he went down in the closing minutes of Game 4 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Knicks last year. The 10-month return would mark the shortest post-Achilles absence for a starting player since the 2015-16 season in which Rudy Gay came back under nine months with the Kings. Joe, you think Jason is doing the right thing or should the Celtics protect him and say, no, bro, we see you next year. I think he's probably going to give it a chance. Okay, Ocho, I'm not sure that I would. I think considering the fact of where they're at in the standings, which is second in the Eastern Conference, I think they feel like they still have a window to where they can compete for a championship if they had him because they could have used him tonight against the Charlotte Hornets. Did y'all see that? I saw it. Man, Charlotte, hey, they got some shooters. You look at, hey, look at LaMelo Ball shooting off the left foot, wrong foot. You got Miller. You got Knepple. You got Coddington. Hey, they not playing. Bridges. Yeah, but I think Tater Mills is going to come back. I think he's going to come back. I mean, he got his money. He got 300 M's. I mean, yeah. There's another one out there waiting on him, too. This one's going to be 400. Right, because he ain't but what, 27, 28? Yeah, I think he's going to come back because, you know, the East's so wide open, they're going to feel like they really got a chance. I can see him coming back this year. Yeah. Well, that's tough. Go ahead, Ochoa, what you thinking? That's tough. It depends on how he feels. It depends on how he feels. They're playing so well, too, being number two in the East, you know, coming out. If anything, I would chill the rest of the season. I'll chill the rest of the season and maybe come back during the playoffs. I would say maybe come back during the playoffs. And as well as they are playing, do you really need to come back and hurt yourself a little bit more, coming back too soon? I mean, it all depends on how he's feeling. It just is kind of iffy to me, honestly. Coming back, messing up that continuity, messing up the rhythm of the team and some of the things that have been going so well, having him come back. I'm not sure. I mean, Joe, you're better off suited to understand it much better than I am is they've been playing so well. You insert him back into the lineup, and then he's – obviously you're a little rusty because you haven't played real live basketball. Yes, you practice, but game play is completely different. I think it would throw things off. You're going to have to deal with a little bit of rust, Ocho, but if he's able to come back, like they're going to take him. Like I said, this window of opportunity that they have, to get a chance to come out to East still. The only thing about him coming back during the playoffs is that the intensity is going to be revved up so high. Yeah. It's like, I don't know if he tested that Achilles really, really right now. I'm sure he is as far as weight training and getting out there playing two on two, three on threes. But, man, it's a different ball game, bro, when you get out there and you go to run around and try to get some of the boys off your back. That's a different game, man, that high-intensity playoffs. atmosphere. I think what has happened, you guys are both correct. They're playing better than they even anticipated. And because they believe the East is so wide open, we get him back. We are a major player. Because now we feel we have two of the top five guys in the Eastern Conference. With JT and JB, it's hard to say there are five players better than those two. Now, you might like Brunson or whomever you like in the Eastern Conference. But they have two of the five best players in the Eastern Conference. And we feel that if we get JT back, why can't we come out? Can we beat the Knicks? Absolutely. Can we beat Cleveland? Absolutely. Can we beat Toronto? Absolutely. So that's the way they're looking at it. It's like, you know what? Who knows what's going to happen next year? Somebody can make a power move and swing, and all of a sudden Giannis might end up somewhere, and we're not in the same boat. this time as we were last year at this time. So they're like, you know what? Let's go take full, let's try to take full advantage of this opportunity. It's, you know, the key leads to just, and I understand technology is so much better because the guy was explaining to me today, Ocho, the surgery that I had on my knee back in the 90s, it took an hour, took 75 minutes to do that same surgery in 15, 20 minutes now. Damn. The surgery where it used to take three, four hours to do hip surgeries, to do these same surgeries in 75 minutes to an hour. Even breaking the bone, taking it out, putting it in there because mostly everything is robotic now. Ain't nobody doing no scaffold. They set that robot up. Wait, the robot doing the work? Yeah. Yeah. Nah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Hey, that robot. Hey. Hey. Hey. They say in a few years, they say in a few years, if you ain't no electrician or a plumber or something, well, your job is expending. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. Well, you know. These robots gonna be out. These robots gonna be out. Oh, Joe, you know back in my younger days, I did a little plumbing, you know what I'm saying? A little plumbing? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell you, hey, hey. I told you now. I told you about laying your best pipe down in the rent houses now. I told you. I told you. I told you. I saved something, you know what I'm saying Joe? I saved something, I saved it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I ain't put on my best work. I already know. Yeah, I already know. But you wanna put down a mean demonstration? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just let me know. Dang. If I never in need of some repairs, I know who to call. You know what I'm saying? Hello. You never know. Hello. Hello. But it sure seems like he's gearing up to come back. And I think the thing is that you want to be in a situation where he gets probably, say, 15 games in before the playoffs start. Playoffs start, yeah. So I think that's kind of the situation that they're kind of gearing up for. And if you read the tea leaves and see where everything is going, that's kind of how it's shaping up. I would be a little hesitant because knowing the last thing you wanted to do that again and knock on wood pray that don't happen. I just hope everything goes according to plan. The Kevin Durant timeline seemed great to me because KD doesn't seem like he missed a beat. It doesn't seem like he missed nothing. Well he took a whole year off. He took 17 months. Because remember he heard it and then and they had a 2020 season, then what you call them happened? The COVID happened. So he took that time off and then he came back. So he didn't come back to what, like November. So that happened in yeah So it gonna be we see yeah he he told that in june of 2019 and he didn come back until like what september october because the the end of and so yeah so he didn't come after like november december because remember they came right I don't see KD. I see Jason Tatum. I don't see Kevin Durant on this thing. Okay. Okay, KD, yeah, 2018, 2019, 18.4 months, yeah. John Wall took off almost two years. But I think John Wall, his mother had passed or something in between that also. But hold on, I think he re-injured. He might have did. Yeah, he re-injured. I think he re-injured it at home or something. You're right. Damn. Which is common. Somebody else did that too. They ended up re-tearing it. That's no fun. yeah but you got to be careful yes you got to be careful especially if you feel anything i'm obviously he's doing what's necessary they got the right doctors the right resources and you know medical people people there just man that pushing and and that that jerky irky movement you know playing basketball and i don't know but it got me nervous it's not even me DeJounte Murray took 13 months. But it's normally if you project it out, Rudy Gay was less than nine months. But if you look at it most of the time, it's about 12, somewhere between 12 and 14 months. Yeah. When Halliburton come back? Halliburton's going to take this whole year off. Yeah, he off this year. Yeah, because I don't think they're in contention to do that. So he won't be back. Like, he will not be back until – so he tore it in June of last year. So July, that'll be 13. August, September. So at bare minimum, they don't play until 16 months. He's going to be 16 months at the bare minimum. Starting next season. DeSean Watson tore his. He's done for a year. It's going to be – you know, remember Ocho? He tore his. He missed all the season. So now we're looking at, you're talking about looking like 18, 19 months. 19 months. Damn. Was it him who re-injured his at home too? I think he did, yes. Yes. Yep. Yep. Hell, damn. You got to be careful, man. Anything of a sudden, the scooter stops or something, you know, you got to be on that scooter. Woo. rich paul and mac kellerman disagree on how mj would do in the modern era mac says mj would average 40 point triple double today rich says these kids today they don't they're not bowing down to nobody they're not just gonna sit around and let you shoot every shot joe who do you agree with on this one no i agree with max i think you know the cream always rises to the top I do think MJ would probably average about 40 in this era. I'll get Ocho. He was so dynamic. He was fast. He was quick. He was explosive with an unstoppable turnaround mid-range jump shot. Are you kidding? It ain't but a couple guys shoot the middie now. You know what I mean? If you ain't shooting a three or dunking something at the rim, ain't nobody shooting no in between. 40 points on middies, that means he's going to have to get up eight to ten threes a game. And he said, I don't like to shoot the three because it takes away from my aggressiveness. Now, something's going to have to change, Joe. Well, he's a two-way player. He's going to get at least six to 12 points off defense now. The way these boys shooting this, it's a faster pace. He ain't necessarily probably going to shoot a lot more threes. I mean, he'll probably take a couple more. But for the most part, he was so relentless in getting to the basket. Who's going to be able to stay in front of him? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody going to stay in front of him. I agree with Max, too. You have to think during Jordan's era, they played a little bit more defense, Joe. They was a little bit more aggressive. When you go to that goddamn hole, they're going to meet you. But you guys are looking at it like Jordan or who he is and what he's become. Now imagine him being on a team and he's not Michael Jordan yet. So now you think they're going to just say, okay, shoot 27 times a game. because when he averaged that 37, he was shooting about 27, 28 times a game. And the way these kids are wired now, these kids don't really respect anything. It's easy to say they respect Jordan now because Jordan is retired. But look at him on your team. It's hard, man. These kids are different now, Joe. They're not like you, Joe. They're not like you and I. We would have easily. Okay, do your thing, bro. These kids, I'm trying to get mine. Even if they didn't care, Joe, Uncle Joe, it's still Jordan. He's still going to get his regardless, regardless of whether they respect him or not. I mean, I mean, I'll give you a prime example. You get a couple of guys like Kobe. Kobe wasn't conceding ish to Shaq. He's not. He didn't. And what happened? They broke it up. Kyrie got fed up. He ain't conceding. What happened? They traded him. They broke it up. So you got to look at, not like Jordan now, with the Jordan brand, the Jumpman, the NASCAR and all that. You got to look at him in a today's game player. These guys, they don't respect much, Ocho. And that's the thing, though, Uncle Joe, even if they don't respect it, we're talking about skill set, what he's able to do, right? What he's able to do. Jordan is one of the few players, I mean, there are a few players that can play in any goddamn era and dominate, especially this era today. But I got to give you the ball, Ocho. I just ain't finna take the ball out and just hand it to you and just turn it over to you now. I'm trying to get mine too. I mean, hypothetically speaking, we're talking about Jordan at his best. I'm assuming being in today's game, he putting up 40 a game. Ocho, but you got to realize, back then there weren't a whole lot of players. These guys now are more skilled. They're more skilled guys now than they were then. Absolutely right. You look at that guy, them guys couldn't shoot everybody on the team now to shoot the three. Yeah, I understand. Okay, you had a Steve Kerr, you had a John, you had a Paxson and a Craig Hodges. That's three guys on the bull. Every once in a while Jordan would get hot. But Jordan is about a 32% three-point shooter. These guys now? Do I think Jordan would dominate? Yes, but I think he's going to have to get some threes up. I just don't believe as aggressive as he is to the basket. I just don't know if getting to the basket and shooting the midi, Joe, I don't know if that's enough. You've got to hit the three. You've got to get six, seven threes up. I think he would definitely increase his three-point percentage. But the fact that nobody can stay in front of him, I just don't see how he's out. And they let you play zone now, Joe. Yeah, I know. but he ain't going to get, man. I think the thing is the 40-point triple-double. That's what's throwing me off. If you say he going to average 40, I'll give you that. But a 40-point triple-double, that's going to be tough. That's the point. I'm not saying he couldn't average 40. Oh, absolutely he could average 40. Oh, yeah, okay, okay, okay. It's the 40-point triple-double that's throwing me off. Yeah, a 40-point triple-double is tough because what Yoke is doing is tough. So to add, he probably needs another 10 points to be at 40. He's 29, 10, and 12. He's averaging 12 rebounds and 10 assists. Yeah, 40-point triple-double. And rebounds. Well, 40 points. He getting that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not doubting that. Well, hell, I'm telling you, if you got Shea doing what he's doing every night, before injury, he just came back. What, he had 26, 27 at night? Yeah, yeah. And remember, he had 35 the other night. And he went out because he was on the minutes restriction. Hey, hey, hey. And then when you look at them old Bulls teams, I mean, Michael Jordan leading the Catalyst. Man, them dudes were yoked up on Camocho. I'm talking about boy. Them boy were cut up. Dennis, I mean, Scottie Pippen. Dennis Rodgers. Hope Red. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had the breakfast club to where they met, and they lift weights and all that before practice. Them dudes didn't play no games, man. you know they was and plus you got to think about it Joe to get average a triple double as a guard you got to I mean Russ what Russ did is unbelievable because you got to chase down a lot of loose balls to get that 10 rebounds a game and that's what we give Russ credit for because like we're like damn this man Russ is the best rebounding guard we've ever seen a guy that's 6'3 that's getting rebounds like that but that's a lot of effort that you got to exert to go chase down rebounds. The hardest part, I think, is assists because you got to count on somebody to make the shot. I'll give you the best situation, but if you blow the layup or blow the bunny, you cost me. 40 points, no question in my mind, Michael Jordan can average 40 points. Hell, I think Larry Bird, the way he shot the ball, I think he could average 35. But then when you start talking about a triple-double, whoo. That means you got to go out there hunting. Yes, yes, yes. And that's why they gave Russ so much slack, because they felt like he was out there stat patting, you know, getting them triple doubles. But he out there hunting for them rebounds. You're right. Every time that ball go up, that ball go in there, get them some rebounds. If you were big, you up under the basket, you gonna get a lot of them. Right, right, right. But as a guard, you gotta make a conscious effort. You gotta make a conscious effort. Get your ass down there. Yeah, you're right. Now, Jordan's in that kind of shape because Russ is in that kind of shape. to exert that kind of energy, to push the pace like he's pushing the pace, to go and get the rebounds, the box out, to go way over there and track down the rebounds, that's a lot of energy. No doubt in my mind that he could average 40. But it's that double-digit assist and double-digit rebounds, and I was like, I don't know about that now. I think that's asking a bit much. What did he average? 37-8-8? Ooh. Thanks. Yeah, he averaged 37-8-8 the year he won the MVP. Or was it 35? I think 85-86. What year did he – was it 87-88 that he won MVP and defensive player of the year? He's the first to win them in the same season. I ain't going to even lie. I don't know what – I know it was early, it's correct. Yeah. And I think that's the thing. it's got to be early in your career. Because, boy, you ain't fit to be no 28, 29, chasing behind that basketball like that. That's what I'm saying. You got to tip your hat to Russ. Do you understand for a guard to get that many rebounds? Do you understand the kind of effort, the energy, the effort that he got to put forth every single night? I don't think people understand that part. You know, I'm talking about the nights where you don't feel like that. You really got to go out there and exert that energy to really get them rebounds, get them assists, you know, to score them points. Like, that's tough, bro. Yeah. But, look, just to put the ball in the basket, the way he could put the ball in the basket and you couldn't hand check him, yeah, it's going to be hard to keep him. Hey, but the problem is, Joe, they might get mad because they don't like you shooting. Either you dunk the ball or you shoot the three. You ain't shooting no midi. They get mad if you shoot the midi. Yeah, the analytics. Analytics. Oh, we don't want to shoot the man down there. I'm getting to this spot. I'm pulling up. It's cash. What y'all talking about? They messing up the game, man, taking the middie out, bro. I had Shump on the podcast and Shump say, man, the guy, hey, he was at the three-point line. He fake got up. Guy came flying out the sky. He put the ball two bounces, shot the middie. They took him out the game. They're like, what you mean? That's a bad shot. That's a bad shot. I said, what you mean? The guy flew past me. He's like, yeah, once he fly past you, hey, gather yourself, shoot the three. Right, right. He's like, really? A 15-foot two-point shot is a bad shot now? Damn. Hey, that's all they taught us growing up. Shoot that 15-footer. That's how my uncle used to talk about, hey man. When I was in high school, hey man, hey, you gotta get that 15-footer in your game, man. You gotta get that 15 footer. I'm like, all right, bro, I'm working on that 15 footer. Now you need that 22 footer in your game, Joe. You need that 22 footer in your game. You need it, look, I'm gonna keep it real. You need it all. Like, you know, the great ones, the great scores, guys who really love to score, they got everything in their arsenal from them little touch shots that we call floaters, middies, to the 22 footers, to the three, to the two, three steps behind the three point line. They call them four level scores, man. And this is why I believe. Hey, Joe. Go ahead, Jocho. Go ahead. I was going to ask Joe, but what's your midi looking like right now? Cash. Huh? Cash? Yeah. You think so? Man, listen. See. I mean, hold on, Joe. But you're saying your midi is cash, but it's a cash for somebody guarding you. That's the difference. Look, if you're trying to say, when you guard me, I shoot that town man on you, Ocho. I don't even see you when I go up to shoot it, and I let that gooseneck. We call it that. That's that gooseneck. You see that? Yeah. Hey, Joe, can I say something real quick? What's up? I mean, no disrespect. I know, but you got to bring the ball up. How you gonna bring the ball up when I'm in your face? Well, in my shop pocket. So in basketball, you got shop pockets. I work on high pickups. So by the time I pick it up, that's like up there, you know, close to where your eyes are. You ain't gonna see none of this here coming, partner. Don't even worry about that. Just get it out the net. You can't stop it. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. That's it. Get out the net. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Listen, Joe really thinks shit sweet. Like I can't wait till we do this little one-on-one. I mean, like it ain't what you think it is playboy. I know I didn't play your sport. I respect you and what you do, but it really ain't finna be that. Hey, you knee high to a duck's ass, man. You ain't gonna be a dude. Nothing with this here, partner. You too little. You too little and you ain't got enough bricks in your back pocket, homeboy. Yo, I'm 6'4", 205. Joe, what you mean I'm too little? I've been around you, partner. You ain't no 6'4". Okay, I'm 6'3". I'm 6'3". And I think the thing, but also the one thing we know, the really great players can evolve their game. You look at LeBron. LeBron didn't shoot the three. I mean, he's struggling a little bit. He's struggling a little bit. But you see every – he's like, you know what? If I want to stay, I'm going to have to shoot this three. Look at Brooke Lopez. Brooke Lopez has found a way to stay in the game because he's never been a great rebounder. But guess what he's been able to do? At seven foot tall, he's been able to go beyond the three-point line and make an honest living doing that. And so Jordan – Absolutely. would have gotten better. Jordan would have gotten. So the 40 points, I ain't even worried about the 40. The 40 is easy. That's easy. You're hoping you don't get 45, 50. Because think about it. In basketball, fellas, you got, all you do, bro, is go to the gym and shoot jumpers all day. So if you do that every day consistently, you know, repetitions, repetitions, repetitions, man, you're going to become a hell of a shooter. So that's why when LeBron first came into the NBA, Uncle Ocho, he wasn't no great shooter. He had to work on that. He had to work on that. Then he became a pretty good shooter. You know what I mean? You can't do nothing with what he got going on. And the thing is kind of like what? They did the same thing with him. They did the Giannis. Build a wall. You got to keep him out of the paint. Keep him out of the lane. Hey, pop, you tell him back off. Give him back. If you want to shoot a 17-footer, let him have it. Just don't get so close that he can go by you and dunk on your head. There you go. And the really good guys, they're going to adapt. They're going to find a way to get the job done. They said Jordan couldn't go this way and he couldn't go that way. All I know is nobody could put the ball in. And they told me, was this guy's a better scorer? All I know, that man had a bunch of 30-point seasons. You don't win 10 scoring titles without being prolific and putting the ball in the basket. Yeah. 10. and said he won seven consecutive, took a break, and said, you know what? I'll see you. I'll be back. And won three more. Hey, Uncle Joe, what if Jordan never did take that break? Do you see any more championships in that window where he was gone? Yeah, yeah, he would have gotten two more. I think he got bored. I think he got bored, Uncle Ocho. That's why he wanted, you know, obviously his dad passing, probably weighed a lot on him. Yeah. And him wanting to go try baseball to see if he – he was so good at basketball, I think he was like, you know what, I think I can take this greatness to baseball. I want to challenge myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He went out for that challenge, took a couple years off, came back and picked up right where he left off it. Man, nobody done that. Yeah. That's crazy. I think the thing is, man, it's easy to say yes, but we've seen an injury here or an injury there, and it changes the whole landscape. because we saw Scottie Pippen's back gave out on him, and it almost cost him the series against Utah. Absolutely. And before they really started winning, Scottie had problems with migraines, and we saw how that impacted them winning. So, man, so many things have to be right, and for the most part, he never got injured in the playoffs. That's crazy. Well, nothing was reported. I mean, I'm sure he had bumps and bruises, but he really never had. And he never had a teammate. He didn't have a teammate to go down. Like when San Antonio was going and they looked like they were going to give Golden State all they could handle. And Pacheep shot and Kawhi lands on his ankle. Boom, he out. Kyrie and Kevin Love, he's out. Magic one year, Magic hurt his hamstring and then James Worth hurt his hamstring. The Bulls were very, very fortunate. not to have any serious injuries. But to put together a streak like that, Joe, where they won, you know, three and three, but to put it together and to go eight straight years is hard, man, to keep all that rub on the tree. Because think about where you're going. Your mentality got to be different. You play in the June every year, Joe. Yeah, think about it. Damn. Your mentality got to be different, Uncle Ocho. Like, these dudes never got satisfied with winning, with success. You know what I mean? They was always, okay, boom, let's win another one. Boom, let's win another one. Like, bro, mentally, it's got to wear and tear on you because you're going to the end of the season every year and then picking right back up with – Oh, we got a very special guest joining us. Now it's time to welcome Mr. Tenderism himself, Mr. Walter Johnson. Mr. Johnson, how you doing? You're muted. Unmute yourself. It was old school like that. I don't know what. Hopefully somebody there can help. He's muted. Bear with us just a second. Somebody with him. if I if this world were mine take your time old school we got this barbecue it's just it's just getting tender it's just getting it's gonna fall out the bone when it come on it's gonna fall out the bone y'all so just bear with us just a second Can y'all hear me? Yeah, we got you now. I don't know why y'all was trying to crack on me, Mike. Talk about, oh, what's up, Kyle? I don't know, Mike. Hey, but anyway, man, why y'all do me like that, Mike? It's cold, man. I ain't do y'all like that. Can you see me? We know once you put them glasses on, I see the thing about to get worked out now. Yeah, and that's a fact, Jack. Hey, hey, look at him. Can you see me? We can see you. I can see you. All right, everything cool? Everything is, everything beats you on this thing. Hey, man, I appreciate you. The honors, man. You accepting me on your show is sharp. Thank you. No, thank you for coming on, Uncle Nocho and Joe. We really appreciate you. Can we go back to the beginning? How did you become involved, and how did this destination smokehouse, how did this thing take off? Hey, you know, I'll tell you what it was. See, we started at a place. It was a shop. Okay. It was a coffee shop. Okay. And I went in about four or five years ago, and then I made some gumbo. I've been with them there since. And so we flipped the coffee shop to a smokehouse Okay Yeah Yeah So you go in there it was a coffee shop You go in there and make some gumbo and you turn it into a smokehouse Now, I found out about Destination because I see you and you talk about you shaking the stuff, the brisket and the beef ribs and it's falling off the bones. Then you started doing oxtail. So from the time we got to the coffee shop, turning into the smoke, the smokehouse until we are now. How do we get from that to this to where we are now, Mr. Johnson? Tendonism. Tendonism. Tendonism. That's how we got there. Oh, tendonism. That's a fact. You coined the phrase tenderism. Yes, sir. And so now it seems like everybody started like, man, got this thing going on. because a lot of people in the beginning thought it was your shop. They didn't realize that you had, you know, you fixed the gumbo, but you were not the sole proprietor or you wasn't the proprietor of the shop. So how did we end up? Is there a fallout? Are you still cool with the owner? What's going on? Because I'm hearing that you open up a shop in Texas, might be having something coming to Atlanta. So how did we get to where we are now, Mr. Johnson? Hey, man, this is how we got there, Sean. Houston, let's start with Houston. Okay. I spoke to a gentleman one night. He said, I got two restaurants. Okay, cool. I looked at the restaurant. Now, what I will do is go out there and help him open the restaurant so he can get him a team. But I'm in California. And then moving to Houston. Hey, man, I ain't no young chicken no more. Hey, you still with Elway? No. Let's be for real about this. Yeah. You ain't off Federal Boulevard no more running up down that field. So, man. What you talking about that? Don't worry about it. I was right around calling from you. Yeah, at that time. Yes, sir. Yeah. As a matter of fact, when you asked me that question, you make some cognac too, man. You can email my cognac tonight. No, I'm just, hey, man, don't be playing with me, man. Southside Chicago. I can get it to you. Just get it to me, man. Look at here. Southside Chicago or the Westside? You grew up on one of them, son. I did. I grew up on the South Side. Okay, everybody say street, stuff like that. But anyway, I don't know too much about South Side. I know you know about that L, though. Yes, you do. Yeah. I was, Mr. Johnson, I left at a very, so now I left at a very young age. Me too. You're going to help a gentleman open up a restaurant, one of your restaurants. I will. Go ahead. I will. You will. Is there anything brewing in Atlanta? In Atlanta, I got to go down there and talk to a guy. It's Steve Barbecue. So I'm going to go down there and check him out. And if he needs some assistance, if he got it together, cool in the gang. I'm going to let him know if Mr. Tendonism approve of it. You did what I'm saying? If you don't have it together, I'll tell him some tweaks, twocks, you know. I'll put that snap back on me. You did what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Hey, hey, tell me something. Mr. Tendonism, hey, you tell them the difference between barbecuing and grill. because, see, a lot of these cats think they putting meat on the grill and they think they got the tendinism. Tell them the difference between the barbecue because I'm sure you probably over there using a smoker. I use a smoker, barbecue, two bricks, an oven grill. Hey, man, look at you. I've been doing a lot. Boy, I get out of that fat red cheese factory. Where you at? I come to your house. I'm a cook, Sam. You tell me, Mr. Sharp. Tendinism. When I finish tendinism, you don't need no teeth for the meat. That's right. Hey, Mr. Johnson, listen, my last name is Johnson, too. We might be related because you got the gift of gab. Hey, man, look at you. Hey, look at you. I don't know if y'all trying to get no money. I ain't got no money. Hey, Sean. Oh, that's going to blow the hell, Mike. Hey, Johnson, I had a whole lot of brothers, though. Ooh-wee. I ain't going to talk about. Wait, you ain't got no family down here in Miami? No, I don't know, man, because there's a whole lot of us. Yes, sir. Yeah, I had a brother. Ooh, wait. One sister. Where you from? I was born in Gary, Indiana. I know about that South Side, too. Oh, yeah. Down 94. That's right. Yeah, I ain't know. That's why you're so familiar with Chicago. You're right around the corner. I'm familiar with it. Boy, look at y'all. I ain't want to tell you. Any ham We gonna move right along from Shantown Yeah but no man I spent a whole lot of time in the south Yeah Learning different trades about cooking So did you ever Did you ever envision That the tenderism And what you had started Did you ever think it would blow up Like this so when Did you realize that you know what We might be on to something when I rolled that oxtail man one day on the side of the building black diamonds and it came off like an orange yeah I knew it was on something and I said oh look at him that tendonism and then from that point on man look just keep it like this but hey it is what it is tendonism yeah yeah hey Mr. Johnson for those of us that are watching including myself if we want to try the tendonism and see what it's all about. Where can we go? Only thing you have to do is send your address, get in touch with Mr. Joe, Dr. Joe White, and I'll come right over to your house in your backyard, front yard. Oh, you cooking? You cooking? You don't think I can cook? You can grill him? What did I just say, Sharp? You say you cook. Hey, man, it's Pee-Pee. All right, man, don't be playing with me, man. I ain't got no smoke. I just got a little hardware grill. You know, the little round one. Yeah, you ain't got to worry about that. See, Home Depot ain't too far from you. And we just go get you a smoker, put it in the backyard, and I get busy. Yeah, that's how that goes. You don't get smoked on again until you use it. Oh, no, man. Look here. We ain't buying it. Hey, man, you got to pay. Come on, man. You know, hey. I ain't got no problem buying the grill, but I don't know how to cook on no grill. I'm going to teach you, man. Hey, man, come on. Let me take the glass off so you get a good look. I'm going to take mine off, too. But let me tell you, while you're cooking, I'm going to be in the house watching TV. Let me know when it's ready. Hey, I want to learn a little something. Hey, man, look. The only thing y'all got to do is set it up. And I'll drop down. Hey, matter of fact, sometime this summer, Mr. Johnson, I have all my kids. I got about 27 kids. 27 kids. Yeah, go to Swift Meat Market. Right now, start buying meat. And then we'll work it out. Yeah, 27 kids. Okay. I definitely want to cook for you. You got to help me out. 27 kids. Oh, look at him. Yeah. Yeah, I got a lot of help. That's all right, man. You can have them all. I'll just be that awful. Yeah, sure. All right. I appreciate that. We going to do that. We going to do that. I'm going to stream that on Twitch. All right, then. What's the If I said okay Come in I need you to cook I got my family Just close It's gonna be like 15, 20 of us What you cooking? Yeah I cook the oxtail The beef rib The pork chop I mean And then put some sides On the side Yeah The only thing you gotta do Is tell me what you want Go to the store and get it I'm gonna put it on the grill Tendin is gonna come out of You ain't gonna Leave your teeth at home though Yes sir Hey Hey I'm looking for some of that brisket. Hey, man, look here. Only thing I have to do, go get about five of them brisket. I put all of them on at one time, and the oxtail, and the pork chop. Hey, man. Pork chop? You don't like cooking pork ribs? I like ribs. Hey, man, I cook you some ribs. Man, it don't make no difference with a St. Louis or Sparrow. That's the difference. You asked me about smoking. See, you can smoke some ribs, or you can put them on the grill. There are two different things about smoking. that he gonna carry and smoke the meat. Slow but short. Now grilling, that's a fast cook. You gotta watch it. Yeah. But anyway, y'all wanna do it. Fast cook, slow cook. Yeah. Slow and steady. All day long. You know what I'm talking about. Slow and steady. Well, I might go ahead. Before you come, I might go ahead and get on this egg right here. I might go to Home Depot tomorrow, get on this egg and work it out. So, you know, me and you have a little competition. And I had a tender rhythm, too. Hey, let's not worry about competition. Stay with Elway now. Okay? Hey, you ain't going to get a touchdown. You ain't going to be tight. You ain't going to be tight. You ain't going to be tight. Yeah, you ain't going to make Elway look crazy. Hey, Elway, I'm going to do something to you. Me and Hermione, let's try an easy start, Mr. Shaw. Email me that cognac. No, I'm just playing. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. No, but I love the Moxdale. I love them oxtails off the grill. I mean, off the smoker now. Okay, one thing you have to do, man, is get the smoker. I show up and show out. Yes, sir. Hey, how much, Mr. Johnson, how much a smoker cost? I don't know a couple hundred dollars. I'm talking about a little smoker. Now, if you want to go get a great big smoker, then you know. No, hell no. No, just go down there to Home Depot. You want an offset. Okay. It sit on the side. It's round. It's black. Yeah. Yeah. Just go get that. Okay. Call me up. Hey, y'all got them jets, right? Yeah. Just pick me up, man. Just pick me up, and I'll come over there and get busy. Where you in, Houston? We'll fly to Houston. No, I'm in Hemet, California, where everything is. Oh, you in California, that's right. Okay. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey, but you about to get ready to come here to Atlanta. Where you going? I'm going to come check you out. I'll be there on the 13th and 14th. Of March? 13th and 14th? Yes, yes, sir. It's a Fed bill. It's Steve's Barbecue. Yeah, Steve Barber. Yeah. Is that Bill Georgia? Yeah. You know, I saw him. I think if I saw him, I think I saw him on IG on TikTok. Okay. Yeah, that's where I'm going. I'll be there. Hey, you know what I do is come down there 13, 14. You see what we can do. Yeah. So you like a high gun. You like a high barbecue gun now, huh? So you just go around and take your talents anywhere. Hey, man, I'm trying to tend to near the whole world. I want to go to Iran, tend to near some Campbell's. You know what I mean? To Dubai. You understand? Yes, sir. Hey, so you opening up your own. Hey, man, I just want to tend to near some stuff. I come by people's house and tend to rack up. Man, I ain't getting no younger, man. You think I'm going to get up early in the morning? You know how it's 4 o'clock in the morning? Yeah. Okay, then. All right, then. Hey, hey. I'm a little bit older, y'all. Okay? Hey, man, I don't know why y'all didn't send me the 401k. No, I'm just fine. No, I'm just playing. Hey, I like having fun, man. I like having fun. You have fun. I mean, look, we still follow you. We always going to support you no matter where you go. Hey, it don't matter. You can go across the world. You can go wherever. If you got a social media page and if you go close by, we going to show up and we going to support you. Hey, where you at? Yeah. Absolutely. I'm in Vegas. Hey, you next door to me. Yeah. Yeah, right. I just left California about two years ago. I was in L.A. for two years. I mean, for eight years. Hey, you on the north side or south side? Vegas, I'm in Summerlin. Y'all know where they're about a hospital? Fort Apache. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Actually, I am. Hey, man, I don't know nothing about Las Vegas. You know something about it. You over here talking about Fort Apache. I know. It's that Tropicana, Decatur, Rainbow. I don't know too much about it. Lake Mead. Hold on. What you know about Rainbow, Lake Mead, Tropicana? Hey, man, I ran across through there. I might have been working at the MGM at the time. But anyhow, yeah, let me see. Some more of them places out there. Yeah, man. No, my daughter stay there right now. Oh, really? Yeah, she does. Well, I tell you what, when you come visit, I'm going to have this moment already. Hey, man, look at you. Do I need cherry? Do I need cherry? Oh, what type of wood I need? Hey, get the hickory. And let me have it from there. Matter of fact, I'm finna call Joe right now. Hey, Joe. Hey, man, we going to Vegas. No, I'm just playing with you. Hey, man. No, y'all right down the road four hours away. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's true. You about to put the car on the road. Hey, man, if I can put it on the road tonight, come down there. Hey, we need to stay in one of the hotels or something, man, because you know we got to do this right. Hey, Joe, you listening, man? Hey, man, Mr. Sharp trying to get me down there, Mike But we got to take care of that thing No, I'm just for Hey, but anytime you want me to come, Mr. Sharp You just, you pick a date Just for the date? I say you pick a date Oh, okay, because you know what? We might have a nightcap get out And we bring all them boys in And you cook it up Hey, boy, look at here Nightcap, afternooncap, morningcap I would do what I do I have oxtail omnis What you talking about? Yeah, you ain't here one before, have you? Okay, man I ain't never heard that Don't you know I'm a country ball I do country things I do, yeah, absolutely And I love eating That's a fact, Jack Yeah, sure It sure is big We should talk Baby, it's so great to have you on, Mr. Johnson Hey, man It's great being there, man I'm hanging in there, man. I ain't going to give up. Yes, sir. Where can people go to donate to your GoFundMe? You got a GoFundMe account set up. Right. It's Walter Johnson GoFundMe page. Okay. Yeah. We're going to get something to you, Mr. Johnson, because we really appreciate it. We appreciate everything that you've done. We love the fact that you came on and you talked about what you're doing, not what has transpired in the past. You didn't sort anybody up. You didn't talk negative about anybody. All you talked about was positivity. and about how you can move forward. You had fun with Ocho and I and Joe, and we really appreciate that. So we're going to get something to you. We look forward to seeing you. But this is not the last you've heard from Nightcap. You will hear from us again. I want to come down there on the show since you're not so far away. You down there. We're in Long Vegas. Boy, look at him. You want to come on a live show? Yeah, I want to come, man. We sit up and talk. We kick it. Yeah. Just set it up, man. we'll definitely set it up the next live show we have you're going to be on it you're going to be a guest on it okay man I'm going to hold you at that too man yes sir we got it I appreciate it though man I appreciate it yes sir I do thank you so much thank you Mr. Johnson that's the man that called the brain tendonism here he is Mr. Johnson that's a fact Jack thank you for joining us tonight we appreciate your time I appreciate y'all. Talk to Joe and get me there. Cool in the game. I'm gone. Boo, y'all. Oh, man. So he has a GoFundMe account. You found it? We're going to pin that link in the chat. All right, then. Cool in the game. Appreciate it. Appreciate y'all. Y'all take care. Stay safe. God bless all. Absolutely Booyah Hey man I ain't got no time Not to be busy I'm going to be busy the rest of my life Yeah man I'm going to try to get it Yeah I want to see what he's talking about I'm going to go check him out Just stay right there at the night camp I'm going to check y'all out And bring y'all team together And we're going to feed them See Jesus said feed them Then I can give them the word Yeah cause you can't do nothing on the episode I know Boy look here I see you You think I can't see you I know you eat You get what I'm saying You look here Yeah sure You ain't gonna be eating by yourself though I eat too Okay that's what I'm talking about Yes sir you like hot water cornbread black eyed peas Woo hot water cornbread With the iron skillet? Oh, my God. Me, I don't know. Hey, what about the candy am? Hey, what about the candy am? Don't you know what? Man, come on. You know what candy am? Dude, don't be crazy. You know we love candy am. Family, family. We love. Talk to me. I don't tell y'all. Get me there. You get me there. Proof in the pool. We're going to make it happen. Hey, you know what? We're going to make it happen. We're going to make it happen. Cooler in the game. I promise you, this summer, we're going to make it happen. Yes, sir, Mr. Sharp. we might have to start early in the morning and take a break because it get real hot during midday in Vegas. Hey man, look. Let me say I stayed on Fort Apache. I think I stayed on Lake B right off a rainbow. Tropicana. Yeah. I know how hot it get. It gets warm. I ain't worried about no heat. In the kitchen. If you can't stay in the heat you shouldn't be in that kitchen. You know what I mean? Yeah, we got you. But y'all make it happen, I sure show up. We're going to make it happen. We're going to let you get on out of here, Mr. Johnson. Thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate that, and we look forward to seeing you real soon. All right. God bless y'all. Remember that I say this right here. That word life, if you take the L and E off life, you'll have if you wake up. Right. Huh? That full-letter word, powerful ain't it? Booyah. Gone. Appreciate you, Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir. Have a great rest of your evening. You do the same. All righty. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess he don't get very many people to talk to. Hey, Mr. Johnson, hit, right? Yeah, yeah. Hey. Man, that was great. We're going to get him out here. I'm going to bring him out here. Yeah. I'm going to have a Home Depot deliver me a little smoker. And I'm going to get him out here and see what he putting down. Yeah. Hey, Joe, I'm sure going to do something with the kids now. You know, Grandma's house going to be done in the summer, huh? So, you know, we got a brand new house. Oh, yeah, so you're in prison and break it in. Hey, I'm going to break it in the way it used to be. Back in the days, Grandma have all the kids over, man, you know. Got to get that tradition back going, man. Damn. That's awesome, man. Man, he was so bad. He was so geeked. The whole church tell my man, thank y'all for coming and having me on Nightcap. Man, he was geeked. Man. We was geeked to have him. Right, right. Hey, look, when y'all go to having these events with Ong now, y'all make sure y'all send that invite, all right? Yeah, yo, we got you, Joe. We got you. Hey, Joe, you want us? What you talking about, man? Yeah, well, I had to just reassure some things. You know what I mean? Nah, Joe. I don't know Joe's dragging too much, Joe. I see. Here you go. Hey, don't worry about it, I got you. I got you. Hey, hey, hey, we being good. I'm going to take care of him. Don't worry about it. You going to take care of who? You. Hey, you ain't going to be able to brag too much longer, boy. Hey, man. Y'all just got to chill. All right? Just chill. Hey, Joe. Hey, hey. Let's blow up. Wherever Unk go, let's blow up that spot. Man. Man. Unk say he traveling. He traveling with that tendinism. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver's strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals, and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and Free Agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts. To my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now.