SC EP:1174 The Vagrant

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that that shocked me. They don't make people that that big. The way it moved. Almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chunting away back and forth, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw was bears. 911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better. Sheriff? See ya. Hello? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. This is Jack from South Mississippi and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. So buckle up and hang on. The End Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. We've got a great show planned for you. We'll be speaking to Chad. And Chad was stationed at Fort Lewis back in 1992. He recalls this incident where his group came upon this giant creature that was screaming at them and they decided to kind of give chase. I'll let Chad go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is west at Sasquatch Chronicles dot com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles dot com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome my Chad to the show. Chad, thanks for coming on. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, and you had this incident back in 1992 while serving and thank you for your service. This happened on Fort Lewis. If you would take your time, I mean, what were you guys doing and what happened? Sure. So, you know, like I said, it's been 33 years, but it's one of those things that you just kind of don't forget. So I'll be as detailed as I can, as I can remember. So I was at Fort Lewis and I was in the first Special Forces group there. And we're doing what we called force on force. So that's where we'd have SF team or Special Forces teams assault whatever targets. And at that particular time, we were, we set up a SAM site or a surface to air missile site, which was actually a trailer. And then it had a container on top that, you know, kind of resembled a makeshift missile launcher. And I think that we had probably maybe 20 plus guys and so equivalent to probably two operational detachment alpha. So two ODAs and some staff personnel. And we really didn't receive too much high tech equipment. You know, it was just pretty much a M16s, I think a couple of HF radios and we had a couple of M60 machine guns. And so we were fortified very well. And I don't recall exactly what training area we were at, but I'll say it was a good half hour, 45 minute from Fort Lewis. And the train was kind of in layers. So facing east, you know, we'd had the SAM site and then we'd have just in front of us was a track or a trail for vehicles. And then wood line that probably went 100 meters in, maybe 150 meters. And then there was a trail and it was a very clean trail. What I mean by that is like, there was no debris on it. You can move up and down this trail very easy. It wasn't a game trail was purposely there. And I don't know what reason. And then from the trail to the top of this ridge was probably, you know, the length of a football field. And then it plateaued it. It was a very large space field. It was tall grass. Our mission was pretty much, you know, fortify this, this some SAM site while different ODAs or special forces teams would attack and never to destroy the SAM site. So that was the mission. Our mission was we would patrol on that trail back and forth during the night hours. And we do it to man teams and I think it was about three or four hours we patrol back and forth in that the particular night of this experience or this encounter was just a beautiful night. The moon illumination was just remarkable. And so it was myself and I can't even remember the guy's name, which is a very odd part, but he was a Sergeant First Class and he was an 18 Delta. The 18 Delta is a special forces medic and we would patrol back and forth. So we'd use what we had the elements in the forest to, you know, tactically move back and forth. We'd move about five, ten feet, take a knee, kind of standard the ferns. And the ferns were, I'd say they were between the knee and waist height, so they were pretty thick. So we would move back and forth and, you know, so we'd move, stop, take a knee, scan, listen, and we move. So our whole mission was to assault any element that was coming for the SAM site. So we were looking for that SF team that was going to come through. And we probably did this for an hour and at the end of the trail, it kind of just came abruptly to a wood line. It was pretty dark. I remember we went there and we were standing and since I can't remember his name, I'll just call him Guy. Guy pulled out a cigarette and he lit it. It was magical. He just did this, how he lit the cigarette was just, you know, because it, tactfully, you know, people would cup it or they'd cover it and light it. The way he did it was just like impressive. There was no light. And so I remarked, I was like, you know, that was amazing. And he was like, oh yeah, we call this a sniper check. And so he did it how normally people would do it in the field. And so it was like a cup, a cup in your hand over the cherry of the cigarette and he drew on it. And it lit up his chest and neck area and part of his face with this red hue. Just after that, maybe, I mean, right away was this very loud scream. And I originally, I thought, oh, this is some bizarre animal or, you know, I was like, it was an elk or a sick elk or something, but it was a very loud and it sustained and I think I'm being very conservative when I say eight to 10 seconds. It was a very long time, but so it, it screamed and at some point it switched to within that scream, like a male tone, a human male tone. And then it went to a male kind of gargling babble. And then into a cackle, like a coyote, but it wasn't, it didn't sound like a coyote, but exactly like a coyote, but that's the best. And this went on for, like I said, 10 seconds. So it was on top of the ridge and so our backs were to the ridge. So we turn around and 10 seconds was a lot of time to scan to see what was, you know, we're looking for. So we're looking back and forth and on top of the bridge, I seen a silhouette. And I know I, you know, I've heard in podcasts of people saying, you know, like, they peek around trees. This was this guy's big dude was just standing there, you know, two arms, two legs in the silhouette. And I remember thinking, well, man, this is a big dude. And I was also thinking like, who in the right mind would do this? You know, this is not typical of, you know, any special forces team. And these guys are masters of, you know, guerrilla warfare and pun intended. But I was looking at these guys, this guy and thinking, oh, he's huge. And if I knew who Shaquille Neal was back then, I would have said he's about the same size. So I was thinking like, who, who is this? And that silhouette was kind of rocking back and forth a little bit, at least it appeared to. And so we're facing east at some point it turned north. And so that's to its left. And so it started walking across the top of the ridge and I could hear it and I could see it. So I'm thinking in my head like, who's in the SF group that's that big? You know, I'm like, why would they do this? They're going to be embarrassed. This is silly, you know, but we were either going to go up the ridge after it or we were going to follow it, which this trail paralleled with the ridge. So we were sticking with it and I kept on, you know, keeping a good eye on it. Although, you know, I was losing visibility, but I could hear it. And it was almost, you know, we were thinking, you know, I was thinking this was a diversion, you know, they were pulling us away. So I was expecting like the SF team to move in and the south of SAM site. Again, though, I was thinking this is not typical. This is really weird. And then I was thinking, okay, might not be an SF team. Is there any other elements who might be out here with us doing this? So we're on that trail and kind of following it. And years later, I didn't realize this at first, but years later, I was thinking like, man, we were jogging. We were moving pretty quick and we weren't, you know, at all out sprint, but we were moving pretty quick trying to keep up with this. And I could see where a break, the moonlight or I'd see a shadow, but I could tell it was still walking plus I could hear it. And it wasn't being quiet. So I originally at one point was thinking, oh, was it was a big guy with a rucksack on maybe that's why he's so big. But we keep on moving and I, it's hard to gauge, but it was probably a kilometer. So I was just under a mile that we're following and we're skirting with this. Well, the, that trail that we were on in that ridge kind of bottleneck and the canopy of the trees were thicker. So we were kind of losing that moonlight and started getting darker. And we kept on, you know, keeping with this thing as best as we can. It was a, it was walking, but we're jogging trying to keep up. And so we get to a certain spot and then all of a sudden it turns west towards us and comes down this ridge and it's barreling through this to the brush. And it was, you know, the only way I could describe it was it sounded like a bipedal rhinoceros. I could hear it stomping and it didn't just break sticks. It was breaking limbs. I mean, it was very loud. And I was thinking like, okay, you know, somebody's circus bear got loose or this is some big guy that kind of lost his steps and maybe he got momentum and I'm going to find him at the bottom of this ridge. You know, and so it barrels down and coming towards us, although we were probably, I don't know, 25, 50 meters behind where it actually came down. It was kind of charging towards us. So we did what we were, anybody would do, I guess in this scenario is we went to intersect it. So we turned northeast towards it to intersect. So we went off trail and we started breaking bush. Mostly at this point it was just a thick ferns. And so we slowed down quite a bit. Like I said, it was kind of bottlenecking. It became even more dark as we came up to where it kind of came down and I could still hear it, but I couldn't see it. And I don't recall seeing any movement. We were behind it at this point. So I don't, I don't remember how far we moved into the wood line, but we were behind it and I could hear it. So we were still tracking it. So at this point I'm going, man, this guy has to be beat up and I'm still waiting to hear for a firefight. And then I started realizing like, oh, we're in the kill zone. So this is the perfect spot for an ambush. So I'm like, oh, they're drawing us into the ambush. They got the big guy to chase us over here or to draw us in. And so me and Guy are moving in. Guy's right behind me. And it's darker. The trees are more of an older forest at this point. And so we were closer to the ridge. So we had like no light from the moon. It was very dark. And so I could hear it and then all of a sudden it stops. It goes silent. So I pause and scan, listen, looking for any movement. I look back at Guy. Guy's scanning. So I move probably another 15, 20 feet forward. And we're guns up. I'm waiting for muzzle flash, flash grenades, because that's our mission. That's what we needed to get done. But I'm kind of going, all right, this is really still bizarre. So I pause again, scan, look back. Guy's still doing the same thing. I don't know how many times we did this, but I remember the last time we did this. I start moving and I walk into this. It was like a wall of stench. And I would always tell people when I told this story, and I haven't told this story to anybody except family for probably 24, 25 years. When I hit that, I would always say, yeah, it was like a dirty dog smell, a wet dog. But I can define that a little bit more. When I was growing up, I had a good friend and he had this dog that would get loose. And it would go and rub up against roadkill. And so I went over to his house one day and he was like, okay, I can't go anywhere until I wash the dog. And I was like, oh, I'll help you. Big mistake, but get the dog. And it was such a foul smell. It was a dirty, wet dog with a decay roadkill smell. So that was the first part of the smell. So to me, and it seems it might be different than other experiences, but there was layers to it. And that first layer, I continued moving in. I mean, I'm like, okay, well, you want to be around whatever dead animal here. Because my only reference of Bigfoot back then was, you know, Leonard Nimoy and $6 million man. So I started moving forward and then I hit the next layer of smell. And the only way, I mean, I've thought about this for years and you can almost still smell it, but it's kind of like a fecal matter, a really bad infection and urine mixture. And it was very pungent, very strong. And that is when, you know, and I really, I think there was like some kind of pheromone in it because instantly, you know, I don't want to say dread or fear because I think fear is an awesome tool, especially in those moments. But it was, it was like, this is a bad, we're in a bad situation. This went from a play, practice and exercise, a training to, you know, like this is real world. This is something bad is going to happen. And so I had to categorize it and I couldn't. I left the Bigfoot, the side-squatch thing in the back of the head, my back of my head, but I was thinking, all right, you know, I'll just go with the bear thing. I was like, but you know, there's a grizzly bear in Fort Lewis. This doesn't make sense, but I had to, I had to rationalize it because I paused, I stopped, I didn't move forward. And I was scanning, looking because it was quiet. There was nothing, no sounds. The ferns were tall. And it was, I was like, I know if I turn my back, I'm going to be pounced on. So I look back over at Guy and Guy looks at me and he gives me the nod of like, okay, we're going to work him back out. We're not talking at all. He turns around, he takes point, but I couldn't turn around. I just, I felt unsafe. I felt like this is going to be bad. I'm going to be attacked by a Kodiak bear or something. Fort Lewis isn't cool. So I start backing up and I'm moving, I'm moving slow because I don't want to trip and fall, but I want to face whatever is coming on. And so as I'm moving and I came in call, it was quite a distance. I walked backwards. I did not feel comfortable, but at some point I remember thinking, oh no. Guy's going to leave me here. He's bailing. He's moving out. And so I, at some point, and it was quite a distance. I felt comfortable enough where I was like, all right, back to my senses. And I turned around and I was so surprised to see he was only about 10, 15 feet away from me. So I assume that he must have walked backwards too. And I'm not sure because I've never talked to the man about this. That's some of the weird part. So that was all very strange and weird to be concerning. Another part of this that kind of doesn't add up and I could never rationalize really exactly what was going on. When I was able to turn around and I was like, all right, I feel comfortable enough. I can turn around. I didn't realize like how far we had went. I didn't realize how far off the trail we went because we were moving and I was like, oh, we must be coming up to the trail now. Nope. All right. We get a little closer. Nope. And we moved and moved and moved. Finally, we made it to the trail and we were back into the beautiful moonlight. We're standing there and not at one time did the guy and I talk or say anything. And there was like a time warp and I don't know if that's the best terminology, but there was like a where I can't account for a certain time. I think the whole scenario only took about 10 minutes. I mean, we probably traveled a kilometer and a half or more. But I remember standing there, you know, staring at guy in the moonlight, you know, and neither one of us are saying anything. And I'm like, please don't light up another cigarette. I remember thinking that. But we were standing there and then all of a sudden you're just so we're a I hear coming from the same site. So we must have made it back to the front or the area in front of the same site. I could hear movement coming in. I knew that was our replacements coming. So I knew there was like a loss of time. I don't even know if that makes sense, but I remember hearing them coming in. They weren't being tactful, but are super, you know, stealthy because I know they didn't want to sneak up on us, but, you know, they weren't trying to be loud either. And I remember thinking like how soft they sounded, how quiet they were compared to this thing that was on the ridge. And so they come in and I think this was the only time anybody talked. I didn't say a word. I remember a guy giving them a brief like, yeah, we encountered something and went across the top and I remember exactly how that went down. But he gave him a detail like, yeah, it's north. We're not sure what we were following. And this is what happened. And so we went back to the same site and, you know, we didn't have tents or anything. So, you know, I just, I, it was still dark out. So I think I just climbed into my sleeping bag and I don't recall if I slept or anything, but at some point, you know, it was daylight. It was early morning and I look over and I see guy over there at the talk. So that's where the tops are the top individuals, the commanding officer and higher ranking individuals. And he looked like he was briefing them out. And so I go over there and I listen to the tail end of it. And he was talking. He's like, we were in pursuit of something. It was moving across. It came down. We followed it this way. He was like, it was moving quickly. You know, and he was saying the same things I would have said. And if you, and guy was, he was like, he had been in special forces for, I don't know, 10, 15 years. So everybody knew him. He was a solid individual. So I remember the, I think the commanding officer. So he called on the radio. I think it was, you know, the training coordinators or whoever there was in charge of the entire training. And he called him and he said, Hey, we experienced, you know, an element moving across this area and doing this. And was there any special forces teams in our sector in our area? And they called back and there is like, no, the closest one. I'll never forget this. They said, no, the closest one was 10 kilometers. Like that's freaking six miles. So, and so I'm like, okay. And then he said, well, was there any elements, any known elements? And they were like, no, no, you guys are over there by yourself. There's nothing going on. So I'm thinking, wow, all right, this is, this is crazy. I didn't want to say out loud like, oh, it's big foot or Sasquatch or, you know, and then I remember there was a guy Mike. He, um, super cool guy. He was, I want to, he was one of the team guys. He's one of the teams. And I think this is where things kind of changed a little bit. I learned a little bit about the encounters everybody else has had. So he slapped me on my, my chatting and was like, like, it looks like you chased yourself some big foot there, hard charger. And I was like, what is going on here? And so there was a, another team that was there and I had, I was talking to them and, and they actually had a name for their for it because there has been, there was a lot of encounters or experience with this in, you know, in different ODA teams or special forces teams. And I remember, um, they called him a vagrant or they call him the vagrant man. And that was one particular team. And, uh, I remember they were like, I was, I had asked, I was like, what, what, what was this thing? They were like, oh, that's the vagrant man. I was like, well, what is that? A freaking hobo out there? What are we talking about? And they were saying, no, this is a, no, it's a guy. He just was on the woods. He's leaving alone, stuff like that. And so it was almost like a rite to passage. Like a lot of these guys had had experiences or do have experiences, but that, that didn't solidify it for me. I needed, you know, I was, uh, you know, I was young. I was only 223. So I was really, you know, unaware. I wasn't sure. So I couldn't hold back. I started asking everybody and I started receiving stories. And so, um, I went to a couple of, I told all my buddies, kind of like, yeah, listen, this is what happened. This is what, but I had went to some seasoned individuals that I knew had been in that SF unit for quite some time. And so I had asked one, he was a, he was actually in a Ranger battalion prior to going into SF. And he was telling me in like the mid 80s, he was like, yeah, there was a whole squad of Rangers chased down in pursuit and couldn't keep up with a creature for, you know, I've heard the difference. Some say five kilometers, some say five miles, because I had heard that story several times asking around. I then, I went to, we went, it was probably a month later, we went to North Fort Lewis had a Jumpmaster school. And so I had the opportunity there to talk to a lot of different guys from different teams. And, you know, just like saying, you know, they were like, oh yeah, that stuff happens. You just ignore it. Don't mess with them. You know, so you get that kind of information. But I went to anybody that's ever been in first group, they're battalion would know who I'm talking about this guy's a legend. I saw I went to him, I was like, Hey, Tom, have you ever had this experience because this is what I had. And I gave him the snapshot and he said, yeah, I had my own experience. And he proceeded to tell me that they were out doing some patrolling training at a training site. And he was just him and his team. He was a team sergeant at the time. And they were doing whatever they whatever training. He said in the evening they were they've trained late into the evening and then they they kind of just chilled out around a campfire and, you know, debriefed. And he said then, you know, they just all crashed out went to sleep. He said he woke up and he looked over and he was about 10 feet away. He said there was this hairy guy squatted over the fire, kind of like Messer poking its finger into the coals or using a stick. I think it is what he said. And then he said he didn't even say that you just watched it. And he said it stood up. Then it wasn't very tall, very big. It was hairy and had long hair hanging off its arms. And he said he watched it walk down the trail and then turn into the woods. But, you know, so there was always, you know, a lot of conversations, you know, when I had conversations about with people, but there was always a lot of, you know, like it was like, oh, yeah, no, you're going to see that stuff. Yep, no, it happens. So it was way more common and I can't read. Nobody ever made fun of me in that scenario. It wasn't until I came back home and then I told somebody the story 24 or 25 years ago. And I was like, okay, yeah, that was a mistake. And then, you know, just share it with friends, close friends and family. But so that's kind of the story in the nutshell. You know, there's one thing that's been eating at me over the years, Chad, and maybe you can kind of help me understand, you know, on these military bases, encounters consistently happen. I could probably name off like 10 military bases right now where encounters consistently have happened over the years. And for Lewis is notorious for sightings. I've had so many people have lost count of how many veterans I've actually talked to that were on for a Lewis that encountered the creature. And what I don't get is it seems like if I ran a military base, I was in charge of everything and I was getting these reports from enlisted men and women about running into this creature. I'd be like, wait a minute, what the hell's going on here? This guy said he ran into someone as big as Shaquille Neal and they couldn't catch him. I mean, I would kind of want to look into it, but it never gets looked into. What, why is that? You know, I don't know. I mean, it's almost, you know, I know in that particular time with that SF community that there was quite a few guys that knew. And they were hiring listed. I mean, we're talking E6 to E8 officers, you know, they were like, yeah, yeah, this stuff happens. You know, they'll mess with it. It'll go away. But I don't know. I have no answer to that. I don't know if there's like, there's just no value to them because I think if there was a value to and they're like, all right, let's snatch one up or put one down. But, you know, then I don't know. I think maybe others are like, yeah, no, you're probably spending too much time in the woods or, you know, so I don't know. I don't think I really have a clear answer to that. Yeah, I think it's one of my main arguments why I believe the government is covering it up because it's happening in their home. And yet they have no interest. No one really seems to care. I don't get it. I interviewed a retired colonel one time and I asked him that question and he basically told me, you know, if you want your career to move forward, you know, your opinion is irrelevant. You want your career to move forward, you keep your mouth shut and just do your job. Yeah, that's probably true. Maybe more than the officers, I would imagine. I think enlisted. They're like, yeah, we really don't give a crap, you know. But I would say an officer is because that's more of a political, I think, drive for those individuals to move up in rank. So I would imagine. But I don't know. I think as far as the enlisted, I don't know. I don't think it mattered as much. Maybe because I don't know. I don't know if there is any situations where people were injured. I think if somebody was injured, maybe there would be more of an interest or like, all right, what's ruining our soldiers here? I know, you know, a lot of SF guys, you know, they spend their entire life doing that and they put a lot of money in these guys. And if they're getting injured by some creature you can't account for, then I would think that there was probably, there would probably be more involvement by upper echelon. Yeah, I can't say that I've ever interviewed someone who had been injured or reported an injury from one of these creatures on a military base. I interviewed this veteran one time and they were doing live fire on the range. I want to say they were firing mortars, but it was a live range and down range. This what they thought was a guy dressed in all black comes running out of the woods right onto the range where they were firing. And the range instructor called ceasefire and he was pissed. He couldn't wait to get his hands on this guy that came out on the range when they were firing. Well, the more they looked at this thing, they realized even from a distance, this is way bigger than a man and it's all black. And I remember when he said this thing kind of looked in their direction and then took off for the wood line. He goes, it was running like a man, but it was doing probably 35, 40 miles an hour. I mean, right then and there when it took off, he goes, I've never seen anything or any man run that quick. It definitely goes on on these bases and it has for decades, you know. When you guys very first saw this creature, how far away from you was it? You know, so it was on top of the ridge and the incline to the ridge was it was not too much of a challenge. Well, I would say maybe a length of a football field. Even that at that distance, I could tell it was a big guy or you know, plus it was very bizarre because you know, nobody in that was just not a tactic anybody would go. It was the scream that really got my attention. At first I thought, oh yeah, it's got to be an animal of some sort. But when it went into that male tone, that human male tone, I was like, oh no, it's a person. It was very loud, way louder than, you know, I think any human can, you know, sustain. But it was probably a football field length away. You know, you had mentioned the babble that you heard after the scream. Did it remind you of the Sierra sounds? Yes. Yeah, very close because yes, it did. You know, Wes, it was like years later, when I got dial up internet, I searched. I forgot what I put in, but it was very similar and I think it was like 1974 Sasquatch scream, Puyallup, Washington. And I remember hearing that for the first time since then and it was very close. It had that long screech and then there was like some cackling at the end, you know, kind of a very similar, like a coyote cackle. But yeah, it went from like animal scream, male tone to, you know, like that Sierra babble right into this really clever cackle that was very similar to a coyote. And when I say it was eight to 10 seconds, it could have been longer. I was being very conservative and saying that I just remember like it was long winded. That's a lot of time. So we, as soon as I heard that, remember, we turn around with, we may even stepped off trail getting ready to go up towards it to make contact. But, you know, I don't remember if there must have been like it moved out behind a tree, but, you know, when I hear other podcasts and they're like, oh yeah, I see him peeking behind tree. I didn't see any eye shine or anything like that. It was just a dark silhouette and it kind of rocked back and forth. And then it seemed like it turned like it's up for torso a bit because that's when I was like, oh, must have a rock on, but no. I think it was just, it had some girth to its upper chest. It was just wide. And then when it was moving across the ridge, you know, like I said, I didn't think about this until way later was like how fast it was moving, walking and us jogging to keep up. And, you know, of course we, I'd stop and pause for a second and then, you know, we'd keep moving. It was fast. So when you say, you know, that creature went 35 miles an hour, I think if this thing was at full speed, I'm like, yes, yes, I could see that thing moving quick. To me, it was a diversion. You know, and that's what I originally thought. I thought that we were being diverted away to either be ambushed or they can assault the same site. I think this thing was doing the same thing. I think it was diverting us away for some particular reason. And I'm going to say this, I think when I was in that, that big foot stench, if I would have took two steps forward, it would have been, I wouldn't be talking today. I think it would have been, I think Fort Lewis commander would have to figure out why one of the soldiers was was mutilated by this thing. And, you know, I, you know, it was so loud when it was coming down that, that, that ridge. You know, I've had a bear encounter just last year, and it was a 300 plus pound male black bear. That was probably 15 feet away. And I didn't even hear that thing coming towards us. And it was being chased by my hounds towards us. My wife and I, we were backpacking. And that, that little bear had nothing on this thing. That's why I was like, you know, I had to be a, well, this is a bear because they had to be that size. But I could hear it. It was bipedal. It was running, you know, I remember, you know, I had nothing to base it off. You know, I heard these stories. There was a place, I forgot the name of it. And I think it was in Tacoma, C&L monkey store or circus store. It was like a thrift store. I think C&L had like a clown on it on the sign. One of my friends was like, hey, you got to go check this place out to thrift stores in Tacoma. And it had Ivan the gorilla. They had Ivan the gorilla in there. And so I was like, what, you know, because I wanted, I wanted to rationalize what this was. So I can't tell you how many times I went and visited Ivan. But I would go to this thrift store, but you know, I'd get a friend or somebody to go and I went in there and, you know, I would, I stood there staring at this poor gorilla and going, you know, you know, is this what I'm seeing? Is this what I've seen? And I'm like, no, he was smaller than this thing. You know, and plus, you know, I've seen this thing walking. And so I think Ivan, I think they moved him like right after, not too long after that, maybe 1994 or something, they finally get that gorilla of his cement prison or whatever he was in. But I remember going, you know, I had to rule out big monkey guy. I wasn't even sure, you know, I couldn't even put that, put him in. I was like, all right, somebody's, you know, loose gorilla. Where we were at, I, again, I don't really recall. I remember we called it Rainier training area. And so I was thinking, was it near Mount Rainier? I don't recall. I don't think Fort Lewis has a training area there. I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah, I want to say that they do. For some reason, I remember veterans tell me being up near Mount Rainier when they were training up for Lewis. You know, you had brought up the Puyallup Screamer. And I think I have that here. And this was going on back in the early 70s. People were hearing this and recording it. It made local news. No one could figure out what this thing was. But here is a Puyallup Screamer. Oh, my God. I love the guy at the end where he's like, oh, my God. That's what I would have been saying. You know, over 30 years later, I ask everyone, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take? You know, that, I, you know, you thought about that over the years. I thought about it. I thought about it. I thought about it. I thought about it. I, you know, you thought about that over many years now. And for me, and I'm not denoting anybody else's experiences, but I was a, that was a living creature. You know, I, you know, I hear other people saying, you know, forgive me, because I really, I never really studied this. You know, I've watched very little to nothing. Like finding Bigfoot or anything like that. Maybe a documentary here and there, but as far as what that was, you know, I mean, you're like, did somebody get funky with a monkey or did somebody's like circus bear get loose? You know, and these were all the things that, you know, you go over. I can't say it was a primate, but I know it wasn't human. It functioned human by the way it moved. I think it was drawing us. Like I said, I think it was drawing us away. Maybe it was drawn us away for a particular reason. I think it had the opportunity to remove us from the situation, but it didn't take that opportunity. I think it gave us a warning and we, we ignored the warning and kept on pursuing and then it did this, this, you know, Bigfoot spray of some sort to, you know, let you know you're in a danger zone. And so I think it's a, it's definitely an animal. I think it's like the David Blaine of the forest. I mean, I think it uses its element because I think it's a human, but I wouldn't want low too. I wouldn't want up a tree. I think a bear goes up a tree because it's afraid. I think this thing probably went low. I think it went, I went in once I learned about the quadrupedal or that it crawls like a spider. I was like, yep, well, okay, there it is, man. I think this thing went low. I think it went below the ferns. And I think if I would have took a two steps forward or just a few steps forward, I think I would have been, it would have swept my legs and it would have been over, you know, good thing guy was a medic, but I think he would have been tore up too. You know, so I don't know. Other than, I know, I'm pretty sure for me, my experience, it was a, it was a, it was an animal, it was a creature. It functioned that way. I just think it's like, it's an apex of the forest. It's very smart, but you know, so our orcas and gorillas, so I think it's, it uses its environment and it was able to pull us away from wherever it needed to be pulled away from and then it had to give us warnings. But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I just think it's an animal. Yeah. And I think that's a fair answer, Chad. And I get why people say that. In your email, you talked about seeing the lights. You mind telling me about that? All right. So the first time was probably in 2000 and probably 2000, 2001. My wife and I, we went to the upper peninsula of Michigan where there's a Pauling, Michigan or the Pauling lights. And I don't know if you ever heard of them. And that was the first time. So I, we were going to go up there backpacking at the Porcupine Mountains. And so on the way, we're going to hang out there and see if we could check out those lights. And so we get there, we spend the day and then we just kind of hung out in this like parking lot area. Apparently, you know, there's, you know, legends and it's a ghost of a railroad worker that was hit by a train. And I guess there could be gases or it's a UFOs or whatever it might be. But we waited there. It was probably around 2am. We started to see the lights down this trail. So we got out of the vehicle and we went closer to the trail. Earlier that day, I went down the trail back and I mean, there was nothing exciting, but when the lights kind of appeared, so it was like two lights and they'd kind of shift in colors. And it seemed like blue, red and then white. And then there was two of these things kind of floating around. And they kind of move forward a bit and then kind of move back. The creepiest part of that was some, some lady was behind us and didn't even know. And she was like, you know, in a very raspy voice telling us that they come all the way up to the guardrail that was there. She said, oh yeah, they've come up all the way to the guardrail and, you know, bounce around the cars. And this particular time they did not. So that was the first time. And I guess it's pretty frequent. So that's a Pauling, Michigan. The second time my sons and my nephew and I were backpacking on the North Country Trail on Manistee National Forest. And so we decided to camp for that night. And so I settled my camp. I didn't put a canopy or the rain fly over my tent. It was this beautiful night. So I was laying there and I woke up in the night, peered down the trail. So the trail goes to an open area where power lines went across the river and then another forest or wood line was probably, I don't know, two, three hundred feet across from where I was. And then just inside that wood line, there was a very large, I would say it was probably four feet. And it was in the bright light. It was a soft light. It was kind of dull. It was a circle light. It did not, it didn't seem to like illuminate, but it was just a soft light. So I watched that for a while. It really didn't move much. It kind of moved a little back and forth. So I'm thinking maybe that's a reflection of something. I had no explanation. I just watched it for a while. I think I probably dozed off. I wake back up and it was gone. It was still dark out. And then the next morning I asked my sons and my nephew, I was like, Hey, did you guys see this? And they were like, No, we didn't see this at all. So, you know, it was no big deal. Probably a few years later was my third time. And this one was a little bit more active. So I was doing on the same trail, but more north of where I was at that last sighting. I had stopped for the night and I was sleeping in a hammock. And I, you know, kind of looking around and I could hear some moving or movement in the tree line to my left. And I look over there, it looked like two people were moving around. Actually, I didn't see like people. I just seen what I thought was their headlamps. But it was like, again, there was like probably the size of a plate about eight inches, 12 inches. And they were kind of moving around and they were, it was as they were moving around, I didn't notice if there was like any different colors, but they didn't illuminate the light. I was like, this is weird. But so I just watched for a while and they were loud over there. I could hear sticks being moved, things being dropped. And I'm thinking myself like, man, people, you know, hiking in late, you know, and you know, loud, you know. So, and there wasn't very many people on the trail that particular time. So I'm watching them. This went on for maybe a, I don't know, half hour, a lot of ruckus over there. I could hear like, maybe like a log or something being moved or dropped or tossed. Sticks being broke. I didn't recognize like anybody stepping, just a lot of movement. And so that next morning I get up and I was like, oh, I'm just going to walk down that way a little bit and see what's going on. And I walked down that way and I'm like, there was nobody there. There was nobody camp there. I couldn't tell if there was too much movement in that particular area. But it was like the worst place to, you know, pitch a tent anyways. It was on a ridge. So that was probably the last situation. I don't recall having like any other, there was another time though I was like, oh yeah, there's another light, but it turned out to be the moonlight. So I'm always, you know, aware when I go backpacking in that area, you're probably going to see lights in the woods. I remember that my wife and I, when we went backpacking last year, I told her she hadn't been there in a long time. I was like, like, you have, you probably see lights in the woods here or, but you know, that particular time I didn't see me. Yeah, the lights are very strange. I could see how people would confuse them for, you know, people walking with flashlights or something like that. The second time I've seen them, that was the very first thought I had. Oh, that's somebody with a flashlight. But I wouldn't say the lights are really scary. They're just weird. You know, when you come across them and they don't put off a lot of light. It's more like a soft light and kind of a pretty light, but I wouldn't say that they're terrifying. Yeah, you know, I, I know I didn't, I wasn't afraid. You know, it didn't like concern me. You know, I just being interested and intrigued by it. Like what is just a phenomenon. I remember somebody a long time ago telling me like, you're going to see a lot of things when you're in different countries. You know, because I think we were talking about me and my friends were talking about black magic and we were in Asia. And we were kind of talking about because we were concerned we're going into this area where I mean they practiced black magic or something of that nature. And I remember one of the older, older guys came and he was like, listen, you guys are going to see all kinds of stuff. You know, even you're going to, you know, recognize that you're going to hear this. You're going to recognize that things are way different than we're used to. You're going to see things you can't explain or understand and that you probably never even explain or talk about. He's like, but you respect their culture. Don't mess with it. You know, and he went through this litany of things to not do. You're like, don't mess with their, don't mess with their, their women. You know, respectful to them. No, they're all their elders. No, they're, they're, they're culture, they're rules. And so, you know, I guess, and I just kind of always carry that with me. It's like, you know, I'm not going to mess with anything, you know, I, but you're right. It's just, you know, the lights are kind of cool. I mean, it wasn't, it was just different. I find it interesting that the same time you were seeing these lights, you were hearing this noise in the background like somebody was moving something or doing something. And I've had, you know, people report rocks being thrown at them. The same time they're seeing the lights, but there's nothing around that's throwing rocks. They couldn't figure out where it was coming from. You know, before we started recording, you had mentioned this paranormal incident that happened. And I wanted to ask you about that. Well, there, there's quite a bit. I've been working in a juvenile correction system for quite some time in the building that the old building, which is actually scheduled to be leveled any day now. So there was two parts of this building. So there was like a 1926 building and then a 1957. So it was a very large, secure juvenile detention center. And so when I first started working there, you know, I wasn't very in tune or caring so much about any paranormal stuff or really not to say I didn't believe. I just didn't really care or paid attention or was interested in it. That was soon to change. So I worked there for 23 years. And there are, I got so many accounts. I have pictures. There was, we had video of things that we can't explain doors, shutting, slamming, things like that. So there was, for example, one situation and I got quite a few. There's a lot of stories on this. Like actually just today I was in a meeting and somebody was like, Oh, was that old building haunted? I'm like, yep, it was. We always get police officers come in and want to talk about it or experiences that they've had or hearing about this facility. So it was very active. So one example was we had this conference room that actually was at one point early on probably late 50s, early 60s. It was the living room to the director of the facility. And so we made it into a conference room. So we had a conference table in there and that's where we'd have meetings. So during COVID we put a computer monitor in there, a computer, and we would have Zoom meetings or, and so this monitor was sitting in there. And I was in my office and I heard a something smash. And so I started walking that way. And one of the secretary of the facility was standing in one doorway and one of the staff was standing in the other doorway and they're just looking at each other. I was like, what's going on? They were like, computer just flew off the desk here off the table. I was like, Oh, no, come on. So I go and I look and the computer's on the floor and so I put it back up there and I called somebody up. I was like, Hey, let's try to debunk this rule this out. Although I knew because this, you know, working all those years, there was there's quite a few active poltergeist kind of activity. So we couldn't figure it out. We're like, we don't know why it went off the desk. So we set it back up and probably a week or so later, the union wrap, he was like, Hey, I need to talk to you. And so we go into that room, we shut the door and we're standing at the far end of the room and he and I are talking and he said something. We were talking about somebody we were dealing with. And he's like, Oh, yeah. And he said, you know, you know, this person was just a pain. And all of a sudden that computer flies off the desk hits the wall and smashes on the floor. And so we were just both standing there. We're like, did you hit the table? And like, no, I didn't hit the table. And we're like, how'd that happen? And, you know, there was just no answer to it. Another experience or situation was I was a I was a on duty supervisor at the time. I saw I picked up some overtime working the third shift. So I went over to one of the wings and they had a gym over there and they had a workout ball of crunch ball. So I would take the crunch ball and I'd go back to the office and I do sets every 15 minutes or every half hour. So I went and got this this workout ball and I go into the gym and shut the door, you know, check on the staff that was over there. They were all good. I go back up to the front office where all the cameras are. And I'm the only person up there. There's nobody can get in the building or go through the building without me authorizing through the doors. So all of a sudden I get a call with the radio and they were like, Hey, were you are you over here messing with me? And I'm like, No, what are you talking about? And I'm not over there. And they're like, Are you sure you're not over here? And I was like, No. So I go and look on the camera and I see the staff sitting in this room and she's, you know, behind a table in the center of this room. Looked like she was praying. Well, she was. She was praying. So I was like, I better go over there and check it out. So I go over there in that door that I was in was wide open and I go over there and I was like, What's going on? She was like, There's things being moved around. I could hear like slamming in the gym. And then she said, All of a sudden this door slams open. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I don't know. You know, just check that out. So that was like, you know, that happened in this, this one time frame. And then this one time frame, we started having a lot of unexplainable kind of activity. For example, like lights turning on and off or, you know, I was setting in this room and I had a group in there and we were discussing what was in a group of these kids were discussing what was going on and all of a sudden the door. I mean, you know, there was no pressure change in the building. The door just starts opening. And so I joking around said, and I called it Danny, I didn't know what to call it. So I was like, Danny, you know, put mess with us, shut the door and door slams. So the, so the ghost got the name Danny. But there was another time I was coming up and there was like this intake area and I walk by it and there's nobody up there except one other person and she's in that area monitoring cameras and opening doors and I come walking by. And I walk by this what we call the intake search room. So when they come in, this is where we search them. And the door was wide open and it's pitch dark in there and I walk by like perfectly. I heard, hey, you. And I was just, I just kept on walking. I was like, no, I'm messing with that. And I go and I look in there at the staff that was in there and she looked at me and she's like, I heard that too. And I go, I got to go look. I got to see if, you know, who's in there. So I go in there and there's absolutely nobody. But there's a, I can go on and on with these paranormal kind of activities where doors close, slam. When we moved out of that building and we moved into our new building, myself and the maintenance director was the only two individuals that were authorized to go in that building and had keys to it. So it's a high secure facility. So, you know, not too many people would want to break in. So I went in, I'd go in there and you could hear people moving around. And so we would, you know, I would either call somebody like, hey, or I just go check and make sure that there was nobody in the building. But there would be certain areas throughout the building that you could hear movement. I had put a digital recorder on there that would only turn on when there was noise. And I put it in certain areas. And one area I was like, you know, I really was a dummy, but I was like, you know, I'll, you know, say something like, yeah, if you want to, you want to talk, just talk to this. And I don't do that stuff, but I did. And so I put it in this room where there was a really bad incident back in the 70s. And so I said, you know, if you want to talk or say anything, do whatever you want. Just talk to this thing and I left for the night, locked the door. Nobody could get in that facility. Come back and listen to it and you could hear doors slamming all night long. I mean, you can hear them in the distance. And so there's just a lot of little paranormal stuff like that. What do you think was causing it? So it's kind of like an old part of a building that you guys were no longer using or were about to no longer use? Yes. So, you know, the old part of the building, which we didn't really use, was actually like it was a foster care and adoption agency. And, you know, in like the early 30s, they had put detention rooms in there. And then they added on to that building with, you know, more secure back. Back in the 57, they added more of these detention wings is what we call them. And then they did that also in 60s. And so I know that there had been two individuals in the early 70s and I think the early 80s that had died in there. One was on one of the wings. I had the young man on Easter morning, hung himself. And so actually, I did get a lot of information from the previous directors. So he worked there for 54 years, which is paranormal in itself. But, you know, he knew all these accounts. So I had details on this. But he asked for a young man to sign one of those rooms back in, I think it was the 70s. And then or the late 70s. And then another young man, he was in what they call residential treatment program. So it was a medium secure. So he would go off campus and then he came back. I think he was, from my understanding, he was upset because family didn't come and visit him. And he had snuck. I don't think cigarettes, but he snuck in matches. And so he caught his mattress on fire. Back then they didn't have fire retardant stuff. And it wasn't really that secure. But I guess he caught his mattress on fire in this one particular room. That's where I put the recorder that one time. But we used to put kids in that room. Of course, this was many years later. And kids would tell us like, you know, I woke up in the middle of the night and there was this kid sitting at my desk. Or, you know, we'd hear those kind of stories quite a bit. In the other room, you know, we would get a lot of times. I remember a kid came to me and he was like, listen, I got an issue. I was like, what is it? And he was like, would you please tell that kid that you guys have stand up late to stop looking through my window? Because, you know, there's cells and there's these small windows. And, you know, he was saying that I was like, how do you know it's a kid? And he was like, because he's short and he keeps on looking in there at me. Would you tell him to stop doing that through the night? I don't know who's bringing their kids in here, but they need to stop. So we get things like that, you know. Yeah, I don't think I would handle that very well. I think I'd probably quit. Did you ever have anyone quit over this? You know, I don't recall. I know back in the day, we used to write instant reports. And so there was so many things going on that the former director, he was like, you know, write instant reports. But yeah, I remember one particular time, a staff, she was, she kind of covered that. We called it the intake area. So that's where they would come in. And usually it's one staff up there in this whole area monitoring all the cameras and doors for the entire facility. And there's really nobody around them. And she was like, you know, she was like, this is the most creepy place I've ever worked. And she would work late into the night. So she was a second shift staff. Yeah, and I remember, I don't think she necessary quick. I think she was, well, she did quit, but I don't think it was necessarily for that. I think it was, you know, this is just not the job for me as the answer we got. But she was, she was spooked. There was a lot of stuff. I remember the third shift supervisor telling me when I first started working there, he was like, yeah, you're going to hear a lot of crazy things in the building. You're going to hear them banging on the lockers when they walk down this hallway. You're going to hear, you know, and he was just going through this whole list of things. You know, and again, it was like one of those situations where like, you know, you just, you know, you just didn't mess with it. It kind of went away, but there would be times where, you know, things would move doors would open. I remember one of the staff, he was working up in that intake area. He was like, hey, can you come up here and check this out? So I come up there and he was like, watch this. And so he unlocked the door and the door would slowly open up and it'd stay open. And the thing about this door was it had an automatic shut to it. So I go, what? No, this is crazy. So I go over there, I shut the door and there was like a little resistant. So, you know, you start trying to debug, you go, okay, is it the, you know, the HVAC kick in? Is there some kind of pressure going on? But there was nothing. And so, you know, that was like one of the examples. And it was almost, there was some areas where it was a kind of a poltergeist kind of thing. Like it wouldn't toy with you, mess with you, move things, take things in certain areas. Yeah, like I said, I think I would have quit. I mean, I've touched so many people that had this going on in their home and not everyone's in a position to leave. But if they could, they would. You know, it's something you're never going to find and it's going to sit and screw with you all night long while you're working. You know, I don't know why that stuff just kind of bothers me. But I really appreciate you sharing it and I appreciate sharing the Sasquatch Encounter. I always love talking to veterans and I've spoke to many over the years that have had encounters on military bases. And that for Lewis is notorious for sightings. But thank you again, Chad, for coming on. I appreciate it, Wes. And I just want to let you know, you know, like I had told you, I've been exclusively listening to your this podcast for two and a half months, just like educating myself and learning a lot. The people that you have on have really kind of enlightened me and, you know, it makes it a little bit more comfortable to come forward and say, yep, this has happened. This was my experience. You know, I can't say I'm assuming it was a Sasquatch. It had to be. I can't figure anything out. But I just appreciate what you do. You know, it's great. And to tell you the truth, I really, I don't know. I don't know if I ever really want to know what it was. I kind of love that mystery about it, you know, and learning what other people are dealing with. And my heart goes out and my prayers for those individuals that are struggling with those situations that are really that negative side of it. So I do appreciate you. Thanks, brother. And I appreciate you listening and thank you again for your service. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is west at Sasquatch Chronicles dot com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles dot com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone. With those in the hand, in the heart. The lights on. My wheels untone to go alone. The lights on. Maybe you should know where the tune goes. The lights on. This is my home. This is our home. Memories of you do. Untend your eyes. Closer to the sky. Our masquerade. Memories of you do. I saw a moon as a human and writer. The lights on. A unique power crew writer. The lights on. So a book must be a little wiser. The lights on. To do instant thing or quieter. The lights on. This is my home. This is our home. Memories of you do. Untend your eyes. Closer to the sky. Our masquerade. Memories of you do. The lights on. This is my home. This is our home. Memories of you do. Untend your eyes. Closer to the sky. Our masquerade. Memories of you do. Untend your eyes. Closer to the sky. Our masquerade. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. Memories of you do. I'm saying just your name. And it's not leaving me. It's not from your kid to me. I'm saying I hope your dynamite. Don't you die in the middle And I'll make you stay in the middle And we'll slip away in the middle I say just in the end And it's not the way for me As I found the key to the middle You are the customer And I'll make you stay in the middle And we'll slip away in the middle And we'll slip away in the middle Don't you die in the middle