The Super Mario Galaxy Movie, The Drama, and More

Hello everyone and welcome to Slash Film Weekly. It's Wednesday, April 8th, 2026 and on today's episode of the show we're going to be talking about the latest film and TV news and then we'll talk a little about the Super Mario Galaxy movie and A24's The Drama. My name is Ben Pearson. I'm an editor at SlashFilm.com. Let's get into the news. Last week I excitedly mentioned that Ryan Gosling was teaming up with Daniels for their next movie. Unfortunately that deal was not finalized and Gosling has since dropped out, which is a real bummer. Speaking of people leaving projects, Supriya Ganesh, who plays Dr. Mohan on The Pit, will not be coming back for season three. That makes sense given what her character has gone through in the show and the nature of doctors revolving in and out of this teaching hospital on the series. But I'll still be sad to see her go because I like that character and I like that actress. I got a little bit worried because I also saw that Catherine Lanasa, who plays Dana, was cast in another show, a Hulu series called Count My Lies, and I assumed that might mean that she was leaving the pit, but the casting announcement specifically said that she'll just be recurring on this new show, so that should not conflict with her work on the pit, thankfully. Count My Lies is about a compulsive liar played by Shailene Woodley who lies her way into a nanny job for a beautiful, charismatic couple, but she has just entered a household brimming with secrets that are about to explode. That sounds an awful lot like The Housemaid to me, but who knows. Anyway, I hope to have a longer conversation about The Pit once season two wraps up in a couple weeks here on the podcast. So in the meantime, I encourage you to read a really great article that Chris Evangelista wrote that went viral earlier this week about how some people are watching that show incorrectly. I will link to that in the show notes. The prequel to Weapons sounds like it might actually happen. Zach Kreger, who wrote and directed the first movie, is writing the prequel script, which I believe is called Gladys, alongside somebody named Zach Shields, who has previously worked on several of the Monsterverse movies over at Legendary. I'm still not sure it's a good idea to delve into the backstory of Aunt Gladys for a movie like this, but I'm hoping that Craigor will surprise me. It'll be really interesting to see if he comes back to direct this or if he ends up handing it off to somebody else. We've heard really, really good things about his Resident Evil movie, which is coming out later this year. Apparently that had like a really phenomenal test screening recently and we wrote about that a slash film so i'm excited about that uh let's see what else here i've talked before about the director of mandy making a movie called flesh of the gods that is about a married couple in 1980s los angeles who crossed paths with a hard partying and hedonistic cabal that was supposed to star kristen stewart and oscar isaac kristen stewart is still on board oscar isaac had to drop out and he has now been replaced by wagner mora which at least is a lateral move and not a downgrade. So all good there, I guess. A24 has come on board as the U.S. distributor of that movie as well, so that's exciting. Next up here, Peaky Blinders creator Stephen Knight has announced that the upcoming sequel series has recast the role of Duke Shelby, which was played in the recent movie by Barry Keoghan. This show is going to be set 10 years after the events of the movie, and now that character will be played by Jamie Bell from Rocketman and Josh Trank's Fantastic Four, and I believe he was in The Adventures of Tintin as well. That is a huge, huge change in performance styles going from Kyogen to Belle like that. So it'll be pretty fascinating to see if the character is even recognizably the same guy or if that's part of the point of the new setting and the new era of this show. This one is set after World War II and it's about the race to rebuild Birmingham in the wake of that war. charlie heaton who played jonathan on stranger things is a part of this new cast as well as is lashana lynch who i thought was very good as the new 007 in no time to die i wrote an article about this casting that i will link to in the show notes if you would like to read more about that ryan coogler apparently never sleeps because he and his proximity media production company are developing a new animorphs tv show i was a huge fan of that book series growing up but I never really got into the, I think it was a Nickelodeon version of the show that came on in probably the early 2000s. So even though this is probably going to be aimed at a younger audience, I might dip in and check out what they cook up with this one when it premieres. It's still a long way off there. If you don't know anything about the Animorphs, it's about an alien race that is secretly invading the earth and a group of kids gain the ability to transform into animals to fight them. I remember it feeling like very epic when I was a kid and I really really loved that book series we've known for a little while that Jake Schreier who directed Thunderbolts is going to be directing an X-Men movie for Marvel Studios sometime after Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars presumably reset the Marvel Cinematic Universe and kind of pave the way for a new X-Men team whether they do that with another timeline or what we're not really sure but earlier this week we learned that Schreier has enlisted Lee Sung Jin, the creator of the Netflix series Beef, and Joanna Kahlo, who is the co-showrunner of The Bear, to write the latest draft of this X-Men script. Those three people worked together on Thunderbolts, which I thought was very good, especially for a late-stage Marvel movie. And Schreier's quote was, when you go back and read X-Men comics, there's ideology but also interpersonal drama, almost of a soap opera quality. Having writers who understand both how to drive ideology from personal stakes. If we get that right, that's what will feel most honest to what X-Men can be. So it seems like he was kind of like interrupted in his thought process there. But anyway, he's saying the right things. So we'll see if they can actually deliver in a few years when that movie comes out. Man, I'm really kind of bummed about this one. So the Academy announced the dates for the next two Oscar ceremonies, and they're both going to be in March, which is just way too late in the year. I mean, you can listen to other podcasts that focus more on Oscars and follow Oscar pundits who care about award shows more than we do here. I'm guessing they're just going to be apoplectic about this, but I was disappointed to see that decision was made because award season is just so damn long already. And they had an opportunity to lessen the pain for everybody and cut it shorter and they blew it. So whatever the opposite of congratulations is, I wish that to the people who made this decision. And then lastly, the Writers Guild of America and the studios have reached a tentative agreement to prevent another strike. It's a four-year deal instead of a three-year deal, but the writers will get some much-needed money for their health plans. So I suppose that's the trade-off there. The deal still needs to be ratified from what I understand, But from the outside looking in and not being privy to all of the finer points, it seems like a good sign. I don't know if the industry could literally handle another shutdown like what happened last time, even though it's very much in support of the writers for fighting for the gains that they desperately needed last time around. so uh yeah it just seems like it's not going to come to that kind of like desperate times call for desperate measures type of action that was required last time around which again from the outside looking in that seems like a good sign so that's all the news we have to get into here let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back joining me now is slash film staff writer nina starner oh hi all right nina you and i may be the only people unfortunate enough on the slash film team to have seen the Super Mario Galaxy movie. Yeah, I think that's right. You reviewed this for us. I'm going to link to that in the show notes. I encourage people to check that out. But I have some notes of my own about this movie that I would like to go through with you. I would love that. They're so haphazard, but I think the movie itself seemed to put very little thought into its structure. So I thought I would respond accordingly here. I mean, can we call it a movie? Or was it just kind of an exercise in like corporate synergy, right? like yeah i mentioned this in my review but like i thought i caught references to like other nintendo games specifically tears of the kingdom and i was like what are we doing here um but yeah i want to hear about what you thought about it i i will tell you i didn't crack a single smile which i know makes me just kind of a humorless jerk to some people but man i just i don't this movie was just a bunch of loud noises and colors on a screen it wasn't really any there was no they're there. Yeah, I'm right there with you. Actually, I was really hoping to at least be amused by some jokes and I simply was not. So that is deeply unfortunate. I think I lost all hope about this movie, maybe like 15 or 20 minutes in when I realized they weren't going to be doing anything risky or interesting. I was kind of thinking like, OK, with that first movie that came out a few years ago, the big knock on that movie was it's so boring. It's so safe, like nothing really happens in it it's just kind of like uh reintroducing or introducing mario to potentially a whole new generation or whatever and like i was kind of like okay with that out of the way maybe they can actually make some real choices in this sequel and they end up just not doing that it's very much just exactly the same kind of approach as they took the first time rescue a different princess and like i know that that you know it was a big deal that they brought Yoshi in I still kind of can't believe that they got Donald Glover to I'm using air quotes voice Yoshi I mean he doesn't do it he just says why why would they do that a lot like it it's I will say like I think he's been having a lot of fun on the press tour and I he said the other day he expects an Oscar nomination and what he's doing is just like Daniel Day Lewis and I do love that um I think that's an incredibly funny bit that he has going but yeah like why would you get multi-hyphenate Donald Glover to say Yoshi over and over again for 90 minutes. It's crazy. Yeah. And even at one point, one of the characters is like, okay, so a dinosaur just shows up and he's just part of the group now. Okay. And like, yes, that's exactly what happens in the movie. Like the way that Yoshi is introduced into this is not really organic. It just is really like, he just shows up and he's instantly best friends with everyone and we're just supposed to accept it and like there's that I think is indicative of this movie's approach to storytelling where it's just like things happen and they just kind of paper over what in any normal context should be an actual arc of some kind right like the the whole evil plot that Bowser Jr again another inexplicable casting choice to me Benny Safdie why like man you were in oppenheimer like have some dignity um but like his plan is capture different princess okay um steal her cosmic power question mark and then i'm not sure what any of the other steps were beyond that are you yeah i believe it i believe it was destroy the entire universe and rule over the ashes but like they didn't quite get that far because rule over what Yeah, like rule over what? Yeah, there's nothing there. So yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, obviously, Nina, like this movie is not for us, right? This is a movie for children. But you know what, to that point, I want to say really quickly, like I left feeling very dour about the state of children's entertainment for that reason, because I was thinking about, you know, I was born in 1990. I had Disney classics. Pixar releasing its first movie was such a big deal. Is this what kids are watching now? Just blobs of color and noise? Because like that did bum me out. And I don't have a kid like I have no, no horse in this race, but it made me very pessimistic, honestly, about if this is like what is for kids now. Yeah, I mean, when you look at something like K-pop Demon Hunters, which I think is also ostensibly for kids, but also for adults, that's a really fun movie with a great message. That is like the polar opposite of this, where I think there is actually some really great stuff in the kids entertainment space. It's just unfortunate that with the iconography that is so powerful and sort of like all consuming from Nintendo, that this is what people are doing. I have a friend with a four-year-old and I was like, do not show her this movie because it just, it's not bad for her. It's just, it's too stupid for her. It's disrespectful to this child. I would say if anybody's listening to this conversation, if any, presumably adults, but if you're a kid, hi, thanks for listening to Slash Film Weekly. I would say if you're on the fence about seeing this movie and just because you grew up playing Nintendo or something, I would beg you not to see it because I think even though this movie is going to make a ton of money, whatever little degrees of less money this film could make could potentially push Nintendo and Illumination toward taking some actual risks with the storytelling or just making any choice and doing something interesting. So I think as a way to kind of like vote with your dollars or something like that I know this is not really going to affect much but I do think if maybe we could grab the people who are on the fence and tell them to just wait until potentially years from now when Nintendo starts making real choices that might be a better case scenario. Yeah, don't reward the laziness of this movie, but okay, go on. Yes, 100%, 100%. Hey, everyone, it's Ben. I just wanted to interrupt real quick and say that from this point on, we're going to be spoiling the events of the Super Mario Galaxy movie. I didn't respect the film enough in my conversation with Nina to actually bother with a spoiler warning in real time. But as I'm editing it, I'm realizing some people might care about that. So if that's you, go see the movie or don't and then resume the conversation. Okay, here we go. I wanted to say one positive thing, which is I thought the animation for the Star Fox flashbacks was pretty cool. And there are actually like several times where the movie goes into different animation styles. And I think they're pretty effective for the most part. I really enjoyed the scene where Bowser Jr. I kept wanting to call him Baby Bowser. I thought that was his name. I didn't know where Jr. came from. It's been a while since I played like a true classic Mario game. I have been known to dabble in some Mario Party as of late in my 30s. But I liked when he was watching Peach and Mario go through this series of obstacles he set up as the supervillain and it went to the flat 2d like pixel style of the original games i thought that was a really clever move um yeah it was it was the only besides the starfox thing the only visually interesting thing that happened in the entire movie i also found that sometimes it would undercut itself by then going right into now it's looks like a marvel superhero fight but i also loved the starfox animation and i also think like out of the people earning their paychecks in this movie, Glenn Powell was up there for me. I think he was kind of like made for this role. I mean, bless Brie Larson. She didn't have anything to do and she didn't do anything either. Um, she collected her paycheck and went home and I, congratulations. But I think like Jack Black and Glenn Powell were basically the only people earning a paycheck in this whole movie. Yeah. Um, speaking of Jack Black, I have like a, it's not a theory about the movie, but it's a, It's an observation. I want to present this and then toss it to you for your thoughts. So the movie has one idea that I thought was kind of interesting, which is the notion of testing Bowser's allegiances. It starts out with him held captive and he slowly starts to become friends with Mario and Luigi. And there's this moment where you think he might betray them once he tricks Mario into making him large again, but then he doesn't. And in fact, he volunteers to work in the mines so they can get away and save Peach. And then later on, there's that moment where he convinces Bowser Jr. to spare their lives. But I almost wish the script had taken a whole different approach and just kept him as a pure villain the whole time. Because the movie makes the decision to turn him back into a villain by having his son tell him, you know those friends you made who were trying to turn you into a good person? Don't listen to them. Family will never let you down. Do what your family says. That was deranged. That was a crazy choice. It's such a weird message to send to kids, especially when the family is explicitly villainous here. So what do you think about that? I was baffled by that choice. I mean, again, this movie was sort of, I wasn't so much watching it as it was happening to me on a large screen in front of me, right? So I was like, would I say I was, you know, super locked in for every second of it? No. But I did find myself absolutely flabbergasted by the choice. I thought it was kind of fun that he was like part of the gang. And then he just turns evil so fast after about one sentence from his kid. And again, to your point, the message is like, you know how you told me to never make friends because they'll always betray you and you should betray them first or basically whatever. I was like, don't tell children this. This is a horrible this. That's for people like when they grow up and they watch a Bravo reality show, they'll learn that then they don't need to learn it from a Super Mario movie for children. I thought the film also came dangerously close to doing something interesting when Mario murders Bowser on the bridge. Yeah. There's one shot where Peach is looking horrified that Mario has done that. And Mario himself just has this like really guilty look on his face. And it's like he's not sorry that it happened. He's more sorry that he was caught or like that he did it with the witness's presence. The tone of this movie, I don't know that the movie even necessarily has a tone. But when it tried to, it was bizarre. I also very much clocked the Lord of the Rings Return of the King reference in this scene where Bowser's hand slips into the lava just like Gollum's does at the end of that movie. And I also felt like the other dinosaur popping up in there, the non-Yoshi one that they hit. What was the baby gun? I can't even get into that necessarily. But that was very Jurassic Park. And I was like, they're doing that thing that I think Pixar movies have really excelled at. I also think other children's properties like I think Spongebob Squarepants actually did some of this stuff really well where they add in a reference to something for the grownups to like actually enjoy. But they didn't even really commit to either of these references. They were just so fleeting. And I just felt like, oh, so it's just like this weird little attempt to make you think of a better movie. And then there's no real like weight behind it. Like there's no, you know, in Finding Nemo, the shark shoving his face between two boards and yelling, here's Brucie. Like you don't even commit to the bit of referencing movies for adults. And I found that weirdly frustrating too. Yeah. I mean, well, speaking of the weight of it, like Bowser Jr. In that moment, he falls to his knees and he's really in anguish, I think. And like witnessing his father's death. And it seems like the movie might be ready to really kind of say something about the humanity of video game characters. and like engage in what it actually means for somebody like Mario to essentially be murdering a bunch of Koopas and mushrooms and whatever all day. But then Bowser just gets resurrected as a skeleton and the door closes on any possibility of that like deeper engagement. So that would be a much better movie is Mario grappling with all of these creatures that he is mass murdering just to get a bunch of mushrooms, drugs, question mark. I also felt like I don't know if the first movie was like as bad with this just because it's been a while um but i feel like during all the fight scenes like all the mushroom like power-ups and stuff the protagonists were just tossing around i was like i get that that's obviously a huge part of the games but it is it was used so haphazardly it's never discussed in any way and they're just constantly adding power-ups onto each other and themselves and i just like i thought that was just like such a lazy a lazy reference to a thing we're all familiar with from this video game and i'm not asking them to agonizingly explain every single power up. But I think you get what I'm saying of like, it just felt like it just added to the mess, I guess. Yeah. And it's just when the rest of the story is so thin, it just becomes an excuse for them to kind of trade on this iconography that they know that we know, and they just expect us to point and clap and laugh. And that's what I think a lot of audiences are going to do, which is just really unfortunate because I just want people to like demand better of stories like this so yeah especially because like nintendo the next big you know adaptation they have coming out ostensibly is a legend of zelda movie and i understand these properties are very different but this makes me nervous because i feel like there's a lot of storytelling capability within the zelda universe obviously it's it's a i mean comparing mario and zelda is a fool's errand on a basic level because the mario universe doesn't have storylines as in-depth as the Zelda universe. So like that, that feels unfair of me to say like the Mario movie should have as strong of a storyline as a Zelda movie, but it does make me apprehensive about kind of the future of Nintendo produced movies. If this is the like slop that we're getting. Yeah. If this is indicative of their general approach to storytelling, then we're in trouble. Yeah. I would not even watch this movie on a plane. If the option were back of seat or this movie i'd pick back of seat yeah definitely um i also wanted to mention real quick mario just straight up sucks as a character in these movies like even setting aside the chris pratt of it all where like his awful vocal performance just why won't he say it's a me why won't he do it i don't know the whole movie it just like he just saps the character of any sense of fun and whimsy that mario has in the video games but even like putting all of that aside right mario is written in such a boring way. He's just kind of there. He's nothing. He doesn't have an arc. Even the idea that he's romantically interested in Peach, he kind of hints at that at the beginning, but then that's resolved when she kisses him on the cheek after he didn't even actually have a conversation with her about it. After he killed a man in cold blood. Right in front of her, yeah. Yeah, right in front of her. Yeah, after she witnessed him commit murder. I mean, you'd think maybe they would chat about that. Well, and actually, I said that two people earned their paycheck. I really should say three, even though I find it so jarring to hear Charlie Day, mainly because I say this in the review. I'm such a longtime fan of Always Sunny that I kept expecting Luigi to like spew expletives or talk about rats or something or like just start singing Nightman Cometh. That would have actually been great. I would have accepted that. I do think like he does his best with Luigi, who is also written like his personality trait is I'm scared sometimes. Yeah, but not all of the time. But yeah, Mario is nothing. There's just no, and again, there's a level on which it feels silly to sit here and be like, I think Mario from the Mario movie, the plumber with the mustache should have had like a really deep character arc, but it's just completely devoid of anything. And it's just kind of crazy. Yeah, I think it's not unreasonable for people to want and demand better from even movies like this. I mean, I know we said it's a kid's movie, but there are plenty of examples of stuff that we grew up with and even stuff that's being made today that actually takes this stuff kind of seriously. And that does not mean like make it grim and dour and dark or whatever. That just means do the work to actually apply basic storytelling structures to these things instead of just lazily relying on imagery to get you through. I think that the first two Paddington movies are like a miracle in that they are kids movies that I greatly enjoy and think are genuinely excellent. I really I still think Paddington 2 should have 100 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. And I'm mad at that one guy who ruined it. But I think the big thing that those movies do so well that it was obviously taken from studios like Pixar is they don't talk down to children. And I feel like when you talk down to kids the way that this movie talks down to them, it's just it's empty and it's insulting. And I think that children understand and can grapple with concepts in a way that like we don't appreciate. And this movie presents nothing to grapple with. It presents no conflict. It presents no character, anything. It's just nothing. Yeah. Anything else about the Super Mario Galaxy movie that we didn't get to that you feel like should be said here? I don't ever want to watch it again yeah me neither there's no way in hell I'm going to watch this again no again back of seat or this ooh I love the back of the seat yeah take the putty choice from Seinfeld yeah exactly alright thanks Nina I appreciate your time with me now is slash film editor and chief film critic Chris Evangelista oh hello alright Chris let's talk a little bit about the drama this is the new movie from A24 and director Christopher Borgley. It stars Zendaya and Robert Pattinson. What'd you think about this? I really liked this. I thought this was really interesting and funny in a twisted sort of way. I really liked pretty much everyone in this movie. I really liked. I really liked Zendaya in this. Robert Pattinson has quickly become one of those like really great actors who could really play like guys coming unhinged really well. A lot of Haim has a really interesting part in this where she plays like a kind of a jerk. I really want to shout out Zoe Winters has a very small part in this, but she's very funny playing the wedding photographer. She was on Succession and she had a really memorable supporting turn in Materials last year, which is another A24 film. And her part in this is smaller, but it's very funny what she she does in her limited scenes. And yeah, I thought this was really – I was really impressed with the script for this at the risk of being canceled. I would say like it reminded me a lot of the type of movies like Woody Allen used to write back in his heyday, back before we all knew what we know now about Woody Allen. Or like Albert Brooks like Albert Brooks early films like Modern Romance and things like that It reminded me a lot of that Not so much from a filmmaking standpoint I feel like the filmmaking is a little more modern. But the script reminded me a lot of those sorts of movies. Yeah, where it's just sort of like it feels a little bit like an issues movie. But it also feels at the same time just like adults having conversations and kind of like trying to work through some problems, right? Like that, is that what you're kind of, uh, uh, yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's like people talking in rooms, but they're, they're certainly like Woody Allen, uh, you know, his, his, his, you know, I'm thinking of movies like crimes and misdemeanors, something that like, you know, he, he, he was very good at making, writing these scripts that were like about characters grappling with moral conundrums in darkly funny ways. And obviously you can make of that what you want now that you know what you know about Woody Allen. But at the time, like he was, you know, he was very much influenced by like Russian literature and something like crime and punishment. So like things that are like these sort of like moral stories, but he was injecting like dark humor into them. And that's really what I sort of took away from this. It's that sort of like situational comedy where, you know, there's a character who discovers something and their whole world unravels in a humorous sort of way. yeah definitely and it's in terms of like the modern uh aspect of the filmmaking i thought the editing style was really interesting in this you get these little flashes of almost like um kind of what could have been moments or moments that are like visions from characters or moments that are flashbacks and you're never quite sure what you're looking at in that regard and i thought that stuff worked really well because it's just these little quick glimpses almost spread throughout the movie that was I feel like other movies have done this but I was struggling to remember any other film that does it exactly like this or maybe like as effectively as this did this seem like a kind of a newer thing to you or can you think of any movies that do this kind of thing with the editing you know I know I've seen this in other things before but I it's like I can't come off the top of my head um Christopher Nolan actually used to do this a lot with his early films uh um but yeah It's more like a, it's like a, like a, I'm going to call it like a fantasy, but it's almost like a imagining like what could happen, like a scene could play out a certain way, but it doesn't quite. I feel like the most recent version I can think of is after Yang did this actually a lot. I don't know if you saw that the one with, yeah, yeah. There's actually a bunch of that in that movie. So that's like the most recent one I can think of, but it's done in this very interesting way where the characters are sort of like grappling with their own, like they're in uncomfortable situations and they're sort of like playing all the angles where it's like, all right, how will this play out? And I feel like everyone has sort of done this themselves where they're sort of like imagining how like a certain situation is going to almost like you're rehearsing a scene in a way. Like you're sort of like, how am I going to, how like, like, I don't know about you, Ben, but like, I'm, you know, I grapple with anxiety and stuff like that. So like, Anytime I'm like about to be in a socialist situation, I frequently like play it out in my head. Like, all right, how is this going to play out? Because I want to be prepared for it mentally before I, you know, so I don't like screw it up by being a buffoon. Yeah, there are people in my life who do that exact same thing. I'm very, very familiar with that idea. I feel like we have to talk about the main reveal in this movie, Chris, which is played up as a reveal only because the trailer hides it. It's actually like not a, I wouldn't call it like a plot twist or anything like that, because it's basically just like the thrust of the movie and you learn it pretty quickly early on. But like for those of you who have seen the trailer or maybe don't even know what we're talking about, it's these characters sitting around effectively a dinner table, just like having drinks and talking about the worst thing that they've ever done. And when you get to Zendaya's character and she reveals the worst thing that she's ever done, the entire movie changes. And that her answer looms large over the entire rest of the film as she and Robert Pattinson's characters are getting ready to engage in this this wedding like the I think that very weekend. so um from this point forward we're going to spoil what she says which the trailers i think smartly hide um but we just kind of have to talk about it so if you've not seen the drama yet check it out and then come back and listen to the rest of this so the reveal chris is that she almost committed a school shooting and that strikes me as like a very provocative choice and i'm curious if you were provoked did you feel provoked as a viewer by that answer yeah you know it's gotta tread lightly here. I mean, first, like for one thing, I I'm kind of conflicted on how they're marketing this. Like I get why they're doing it this way because it's really hard to get people to go see movies today, especially movies like this that aren't like, you know, big blockbusters. So you gotta have a hook and that's the hook they're playing on. But like you said, like it's not really a plot to it. It's sort of like the whole movie is based around this. So I don't really think you can call it a plot, especially because it happens pretty early it happens like in the first like what i say like 15 to 20 minutes and then the rest of the movie is based around this so it's not really a twist it's more like a see i don't even know what you would like a secret i don't know but um anyway like so i man i don't know like i get why the characters react the way they do here especially because uh christopher borgley is is intentionally trying to sort of like make the audience grapple with um man i don't want to use the word the term cancel culture because i don't really think cancel culture exists uh not the way that people think it does i mean because everyone gets to come back sooner or later um so like you know without like uh getting lost in the weeds like just the other day it was announced that louis ck has like a new netflix special coming out so it's like and you know i used to love louis ck i think he's a very funny guy but it's like he flat out admitted to those things he was accused of and now he's just like well here's a new netflix special so it's like castle culture does not really exist in the way that you know your boomer parents want to claim it does but i do think the film is sort of grappling with the idea of cancellation and the idea of judging people and sort of like moral righteousness like the Alana Haym character is very much meant to be this sort of like, uh, intolerant sort of like asshole who's like, has no room for nuance. Like she does not want to like, the minute she finds out that Zendaya's character was playing the school shooting, she has like no remorse for her. And she has her own personal reasons where she says like her cousin was, uh, paralyzed in a shooting, but it's like, she takes it very seriously. She's very freaked out about this and, and angry about it. and Robert Pattinson's character is very, uh, kind of perturbed by this, but not in like a, it's almost where he's like, he doesn't really think he understands this person he fell in love with. You know, I gotta say, um, from my own perspective, like if my girlfriend came to me one day, it was like, I was going to plan a school shooting in high school. Like we're both in our forties now. If she had said that to me now, I would probably be like, man, that's fucked up. But I would not like, I don't like again you can't know how you're gonna react until that happens to you I guess but I really don't think I would spiral the way Robert Pattinson's character spirals here like I just don't think it would like disturb me as much as it disturbs him and uh I don't know what that says about me I don't know like I want to like I you know I am not to get all girlfriend guy here but I love my girlfriend if she told me this I would I would be like wow that's crazy but I would not be like, I'm horrified. So I don't know. I think it works in the context of the film and the context of the archetypes, the characters are trying to be placed into. I just don't know how realistic it is. I don't like, what about you, Ben? Like if your wife came to you and was like, I almost played a school shooting, would you be like freaking out or what? Like, how would you react to this? I mean, I think I would freak out a little bit. Um, I don't think I because it's so much time has passed for me and my wife and then also the characters in this movie. It's been like decades since it happened. So like the idea that, you know, a person does this and then is still harboring similar feelings decades later. I don't know if I would make that jump. And Robert Pattinson's character really fixates on this and is kind of making that jump. And it seems very, very worried about it. And like one character at one point suggests that they would call the police if this happened to them. And I'm like, what would the police do? That's like a very silly response to that learning that kind of thing, I think. Yeah, I do think like, yeah, the time period is the key goal here. Like if my girlfriend came to me today and said, I'm going to I was thinking about going into work tomorrow and shooting everyone, I would be alarmed. I'd be like, all right, that's alarming. But if she was like in high school, like that's so long ago. Like high school is such a long time ago. And I get that the characters in this are a little bit younger. I guess they're in there. I don't know how old these care. I guess they're in their thirties. I want to, how old is Zendaya? They're probably early thirties. Yeah. I actually do not know. She is 29. All right. So she's, she's like bordering on 30. Robert Pattinson, I would imagine it is he's 39. Okay. So he's, he's closer to my age than Zendaya is, but still it's like, I don't think I would be as perturbed as Robert Pattinson's character is. But again, I get what, what like he's doing that because that's what the, the movie requires him to do. And I guess you could argue that that's like you, I suppose you could say like, Oh, that's bad screenwriting, but I, I don't think that's true. I like, is this realistic? Probably not. I don't think they're trying to make a realistic movie. I think they're more trying. I think they're trying to take this sort of situation and sort of take a satirical farcical approach to it. Like, I'm not really interested in whether or not this is realistic or not, but I do think I did have some problems like that, that moment where the character where I think it's Hayley Gates is the character where she's like, I would call the cops if my boyfriend told me he almost did this in high school. It's like, what, why would you do that? Like the cops would absolutely do nothing about this. Like it's just a very strange, the way everyone reacts here is very strange. But again, that's sort of like the point. It's about like how these characters all have their own very different reactions to this character's revelation. And at the same time, I do think I did. But I think I think that's kind of what makes the movie interesting. Like, I'm very fascinated in how Zendaya plays this, because after she admits it, she very much does not want to talk about it. And, you know, on one level, I just got done saying like, I wouldn't freak out about this, but the way that she keeps being like, can we stop talking about this? That's not really realistic either. Like, I'd be like, we probably should talk about this a little bit, like, instead of like brushing it under the rug. So it's, it's, it's, it's interesting just how it plays out. Yeah, I thought it was a really, really provocative idea. And obviously, like, he's trying to kind of like touch a nerve in terms of something that is, you know, that we talk about as a culture, but talk about in a very bizarre way, I think, and kind of just the fact that's that I mean, they talk about it in the movie, how it's like, a cultural thing to America and like a very specific thing. And there aren't very many films that touch on this topic, even though it's become essentially a part of the fabric of daily life in this country. And so I think it I totally understand why A24 did not want to put that in the trailers, because I think it would put a lot of people off from seeing the movie and marketing it as like some sort of mystery, I think, really worked. because if Zendaya's character said, I killed somebody back in the day, I think that would be way less interesting to me than I planned this thing that we all as viewers, as audience members have seen play out countless times in the past 20 years, but I didn't do it. And that idea, that like walking up to that line but not quite crossing it is, I think, the source of this movie's drama, so to speak. And I think it really, really worked for me. I was like fully locked in and compelled all the way through. Um, I'm glad you said the thing about cancel culture, cause I actually had that written down in my notes about like, what is this movie actually about? I mean, it's about forgiveness to some degree based on what happens in that final scene at the diner and kind of about looking past your partner flaws And I was curious if you thought it was making some sort of larger commentary on cancel culture that idea of like somebody saying or doing something and tainting their image and then potentially being accepted despite that misstep. And like, yes, we don't need to like really drill down on examples of this in the culture, but like, what do you think based on how this movie ends and the fact that these two characters reconcile at the end and like they both kind of need to put this thing behind them and for Pattinson it's like obsessing over Zendaya's revelation and for Zendaya it's like the fact that Pattinson's character kisses that woman and almost has sex with her and like his co-worker or whatever they both have to like put this gigantic weight that's hanging over them behind each other so they can move on together in their life so like based on how this movie ends what did you think the commentary is if there is a purposeful one there about that cancellation idea we're talking about you know it's we get into like a whole like uh what's the term um can of worms here sort of thing because it's obvious that christopher borgley director is very interested in this topic of cancel culture because the movie he made before this dream scenario with nick cage also has this sort of like cancer cultural thing running through it where you saw did you see that the nicholas cage yep yeah like that for those who haven't seen it that movie is about like everyone starts having nightmares about nicholas cage's character and in truth he's done nothing wrong like he's he like he has no control over it but everyone's afraid of him and it's sort of like that movie is sort of like about like him being canceled even though he hasn't done anything wrong and now we have this movie which is also very much about like uh can you forgive zendaya's character for thinking this terrible thing it's sort of like the thought crimes sort of is the term i guess you want to use and then you can't really talk about that unless you would have to now we have to wade into the fact that right before this movie came out it was revealed that Christopher Borsley, he's in his 40s now. But when he was in his 20s, he wrote this essay in a Norwegian magazine where he revealed he had a relationship with a 16-year-old girl when he was in his 20s. Now, right off the bat, we should add that in, I think, in Norway, the age of consent is 16. So legally, he didn't do anything wrong. But, you know, obviously, it's very weird if you're in your 20s and you're dating a teenager. Like I couldn't, I can't imagine like just from like a logistic, like what are you even talking about? Like, have you ever tried to like, how have you been trying to talk to like a teenager? Like they're idiots. Like what are you going to talk to a 16 year old about? But so it's like, there's an icky thing right there. And so it's obvious that like this sort of thing is on his mind. And I do think the movie, the drama, getting back to the drama, I do think it's sort of like trying to ask for a sort of empathy. I don't know if you want to look at it as like, he's asking for empathy for himself, for what he did. I don't really know if you want to take it that far. I do think the ending here is kind of sweet. I do kind of like, you know, I got to admit, I was hoping it was going to work out for these two. Like, just because I think, I think Robert Pattinson and Zendaya have really good chemistry together. And I kind of want them to make like a whole bunch of rom-coms now, because I think they play off each other really well. and after all the shit they go through in this movie i i was rooting for them in the end so in the end when we get this sort of happy ending where they you know they're they're willing to you get the impression that they're willing to sort of like put the past in the past and and move forward together i was happy about that i liked because i feel like they deserved it um again it's it's a question of degree like if robert pattinson had gone all the way and had sex with his co-worker like he stopped short of having sex with her if he had actually had sex with her it probably would be a different question again like you said if zendaya's character had actually shot someone in school it would be a different thing but i do think the film is trying to say there are degrees of these sort of things and i i don't think that's incorrect you know again i don't want to wade too far into the the cancel culture discourse because i do think we as a society are way too quick to forgive people for way too quick to forgive certain people for certain things and at the same time it's like i don't know who gets to be the the the judge in these sort of things like who appointed us to be the like i just feel like it's got to be like a sort of like gut reaction sort of thing and it's like you can only approach this things on how it affects you on like a moral level like if robert pattinson's character was like a a sexual predator or something i would not like that character but he's just like this guy going through this emotional turmoil and he has this slip up where he turns his co-worker for you know a tryst because he's he's seeking some sort of thing like i'm not saying that's right i'm not saying i would do that but i get where that character is coming from and the same thing with zendaya's character they give us sort of like a back story into her there's like these very amusing flashbacks to her as a kid where you sort of see like why she got sort of like into this zone of you know spiraling out of control and coming very close to doing a school shooting you know she was bullied again i'm not saying it was right i'm not saying you know if you're bullied you should be a school shooter like i was bullied in school and i never shot anybody so i'm not saying it's okay I just think the movie is trying to say we shouldn't go. We just shouldn't go too far with how we react to these sort of things. Again, it's like it's a level of degree. Like you should be willing to forgive people for certain things. But, you know, there are also things you should not forgive people for. There are things people do terrible things that get overlooked because, you know, we like them or, you know, we're amused by them. And, you know, where's the line you want to draw? And I'm, I kind of appreciate the movie is not willing, is willing to sort of just be like, there's no like easy answer here. You just sort of kind of like play it by ear, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, that's very well said. Yeah, I fully agree. And I'm glad this movie is, is kind of presenting this as a conversation starter or like a, I'm glad that, that, you know, a conversation like the one we're having right now is the result of seeing this movie. I feel like we could all use maybe a little bit more nuance aside from the cases where it's very cut and dried that someone should just be like completely ousted from society because of what they've done. So, yeah, I also you mentioned at the very beginning and I don't know if we've necessarily conveyed it super well in this conversation, but this movie is very, very funny. It's so it's dark, but it's very funny. that scene where Zendaya as a 15 year old, like has the gun in her room and she's like recording these videos and her webcam keeps screwing up. And like the computer keeps trying to update and stuff like that. Uh, I just was cracking up during those moments. And there's this one little quick thing where like it cuts back to a flashback of her and she's like, Sally, you're going to be the first one to die or something like that. You know, like it's just, it's so dark, but it's very, very funny. Um, so I just really want, in case people are like listening to this whole conversation without having seen the movie and are maybe still on the fence about seeing it it's it's almost as much a comedy as it is you know like a suspenseful movie or like a relationship drama i would honestly say like this is a rom-com it just happens to be about a mass shooting it's like like like like a near mass shooting like i would honestly say this is a rom-com but it's a very dark rom-com Um, there's like multiple moments here where the audience I saw this was just like gasping in horror as I was like cracking up. So like, I don't know what, again, I don't know what that says about me or what, but like there are like, I acknowledge that the humor here is very dark, but it's, it's, it's funny. It's a very funny movie and it's very dark and twisted sort of way. Yeah. And I also just want to underline what you said earlier about Robert Pattinson and like how great it is to watch him become unhinged because I was very surprised that this is basically robert pattinson's movie like zendaya is top build in the movie because i think she's technically a bigger star at this point but she kind of like fades into the background a little bit i thought this was going to be a much more even kind of two-hander type of film and it really is more about watching pattinson as you said spiral out because of this revelation and how he responds to this you get a little bit of zendaya's reaction and and like regret in revealing this and like how she's dealing with the consequences and the fallout of what she said when she was drunk one night but for i i would say this is probably more pattinson's movie than zendaya's and i just thought he did a really really great job with it um you know coming off the back of uh die my love with jennifer lawrence like he's just doing really interesting work where he's those two performances are very very different but he's also like one of those actors who is okay with being in kind of like a secondary role or like a subservient role almost. Like he is not one of those guys from the seventies or eighties who it was like the entire script needs to be solely about me. And I need to look like a badass in any given situation. You know, there are a lot of stories and like William Goldman's books about screenwriting and stuff where like, even people like Robert Redford, actors, we like a lot, Warren Beatty, people like that, you know, Steve McQueen is another one where like these guys would kind of like have this line that they wouldn't cross in terms of like how they looked on screen. They really cared about their, their image. And he's like completely game for anything. It seems, you know, a lot of like, I've never seen the twilight movies, I must confess. And, but you gotta, you gotta give it to them, man. Like everyone gave Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart shit for those movies. But I think they've both evolved into like two of the most like interesting actors working right now and i don't think anyone saw that coming but they're they're both just like so willing to do different things and i think that's so cool one day i should go back and actually watch the twilight movies just to to see to see what it was like back then but uh yeah yeah i've never seen him either um maybe that could be a project we embark upon the twilight podcast where we re-watch twilight all right well anything else you want to say about the drama before we wrap it up? No, you know, I hope this does well. Uh, like I, anytime there's a movie like this coming out, I touch on this where it's like, there was a time when this was like the normal sort of like Friday night movie for adults. And we don't get that anymore. Or like the movies come out and no one goes to see it. Um, I, I think Zendaya has a pretty big fan base. So I'm hoping they turn out for this, even though I don't know if like, this is like what her fans expect. Although, you know, I don't think it's like a crazy movie, but it's not like a fun movie either, but it is kind of fun. I don't know, man. I just want people to go see these sorts of movies because I don't want everything to be blockbusters. You know, like I want the movie industry to survive and for it to survive, we need movies like this, which are they don't cost an arm and a leg and they're not about spectacle. They're just like sort of stories about adults going through things. Like there used to be a time when that was what going to the movies was about. And then it all changed. And it hasn't been like that in a long time. And those movies still exist. People just don't go see them. So, you know, if, if the drama is playing near you and you are interested in like an adult driven rom-com that is willing to push some buttons, I really recommend going out to see this. I think it's worth the time. Yep. You and I both. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks very much, Chris. I appreciate it. Yeah, man. All right. That's going to do it for this episode of the show. You can find more about some of the stories we mentioned on today's show at slashfilm.com and linked in the show notes for this episode. You can subscribe to Slash Film Weekly on Apple, Overcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Check out patreon.com slash pop culture to hear more from me and Chris Evangelista and Brad Omen. We have a Simpsons rewatch podcast that you can subscribe to over there. We have free episodes over there where we basically do like old water cooler style conversations that are very much like the ones that we used to have on Slash Film Daily and Slash Film Weekly. Anyway, check us out at patreon.com slash popcultured if you're interested in hearing more from us. You can send your feedback, questions, comments, concerns, and mailback topics to us at bpearson at slashfilm.com. Make sure to leave your name and general geographic location in case we mention your email over there. Don't forget to take a minute to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That really helps us out a lot. tell your friends about the show if you can that would be greatly appreciated as well thank you so much for listening everyone and we'll talk to you next time