Hi, it's Dr. Jen Kennedy. I'm a sexologist and couples therapist. The Pleasure Project podcast is about sex and relationships. So this includes discussions on desire, dysfunction, dissatisfaction, exploration of all things sex related. So sometimes I'll do toy reviews and we'll look at trends. And sometimes I'll also enlist other experts. We'll increase your insight and enhance your pleasure. So tune in. In this solo podcast, I'm talking about my core idea of I'm with you because more and more couples are feeling really disconnected and I get it. I've been there. I go in and out of it in my own life. And so I'm giving practical, practical, personal stories and ways to reconnect with your partner. So tune in and let's figure this out. Hi, welcome back. So today is going to be just you and me. And I'm going to start out with telling you guys a personal story that happened recently. I was heading out the door. I was in a rush. I had been sleeping downstairs now. This is because my partner had had COVID. I thought COVID was over. COVID is not, it is back. We had been socially isolating. So I was sleeping downstairs for a week, right? This was like day five or six and trying really hard not to get sick. And I had a big day ahead of me. I had a lot going on. I was doing this big three day intensive training. And my brain was all ready for the day. And I was thinking about that. And I was also thinking about staying far, far away. And as I was dashing past her on the way to the shower, she said, hey, and I was like, what? She said, give me a little dance. And I stopped and I was like, what? In my mind, I was thinking, what are you talking about? Like, are you kidding me? I've got all the, all these plans in my mind. I've got all these calculations I'm doing with what I'm, what I'm talking about today and what I'm thinking about and what's, what's in motion. But I recognized in that moment that what she was asking for was connection. She was asking for attention, right? I mean, she wants the dance. The dance is a, is a short hand way of her saying, be with me, notice me. And so I pause and I turned toward her and we had a playful little moment of exchange. And it was great. Like it changed my mood. It changed her mood. It set us up for a very different kind of day and it reconnected us. And it was, it was brief, right? It was, it was really brief and it was so doable. But it did require me to shift gears and to be in that moment and to be willing to pause and to set aside, like kind of recalibrate my brain space and my priorities and to allow what she needed and what she wanted to matter in that moment. And when you're in a partnership, sometimes this is, this has got to take the front seat, right? This has got to matter. And so what we're going to talk about today, you and me in this exchange is sort of how we reconnect in our partnership and this idea of I'm with you. How do you come back around to the person that matters most to you and communicate verbally or nonverbally? I'm with you because ultimately that's sort of how the connection stays present. And that's, that's where like the gold is. So it's not always about proximity, but a lot of times it is. And the feeling of like closeness and togetherness, veins, you know, waxes and veins as we're in this longer term relationship. Now, when you're first together, of course, it's easy because you're, you're sort of in each other's presence and there's this pull towards each other and there's this constant checking in via text, via phone, via whatever. There's usually lots of sex happening. It's very easy. And there's just this, this loop of dopamine that's happening. But in longer term partnerships, and I'm talking 10, 20, 30, 40 years, that's not as accessible. And so you have to make a decision to sometimes pause, put down your book, put down your knitting, put down your video game, put down your phone, put down your sports page, whatever it is that gets you, pay attention to them in a way that matters to them and to you. So that's what we're going to kind of jump into today. But it's, it's ways of reconnecting that say, I see you, I feel you, I'm tuned into you on purpose. So let's jump in. First of all, let's talk about the difference between proximity and presence. Because I think that a lot of couples are around one another, but they're not necessarily together. When you're in your working years, there's not even proximity, because typically people are going off to their work environments, although not necessarily if you're telecommuting in modern day. But you can have, you can have shared space, and not actually feel very together. You can have very little time together and feel quite connected. It's about quality, I would say over quantity of time. And so if you don't have a lot of time together, or if you don't have much capacity, then I would say if you can make more of an effort to spend that time or spend at least pockets of that time in meaningful ways, that's going to be important. And that might be morning cuddling. That might mean setting aside date time. I've got couples that sometimes create these rituals in session, because they're aware that it's just not happening. And so what does that look like? Every partnership is different. Some people really value sitting together and doing the crossword puzzles, or taking walks, or whatever your thing is, you guys come up with your rituals collectively, but you have to have whatever your thing is happening and happening with some sort of consistency and continuity. Because if you only do it every once in a while, or if you only do it in these grand gestures, you get this big surge of like feel better, but then it runs out and it doesn't last. I find that people that come to couples therapy, they get this big influx of relief, but then the real true test is like, can you keep investing in yourselves? Can you make it last? Can you have the discipline to keep it going and do the work on your own once you're back out in the world? And so all of us have that challenge. I go to couples therapy too. Like, it's like, how do we do this with regularity? Right? How do we actually... And I know from my side of things, it's like, I have to check myself, I have to turn toward, and in these moments, I appreciate being called back into the relationship and saying, hey, I don't get to have this person all the time. And I don't want this person all the time either. But in these moments, like I make time and I prioritize this relationship, and I get the returns from that. So the difference between proximity and presence, right? I think sometimes you can actually feel quite close to somebody and not be directly interacting with them. That can look like when you're maybe sitting in bed, both reading and your toes are just kind of like canoodling, right? That can actually feel quite tender when you're first waking up and you're just sort of like hugging and kind of being there or watching a show together and laughing and kind of enjoying it. You don't have to be directly talking, but there is a shared experience and there is awareness of each other and there is consideration, right? We feel it when there's disconnection and when there isn't that willingness to sort of acknowledge and when, say, you're watching a show, but one person is checking their phone or doing something else and so they're missing like the laugh moments and it's like it doesn't feel as rewarding. So having the proximity, meaning like physical closeness, but then also having the presence is part of what feels the return and the reward of being together. So the next piece I want to talk about is intimacy is a result of both attention and curiosity in your partner. So a lot of people, and I'm not saying intimacy is just sex, I'm saying intimacy is sort of that closeness that most of us hunger for. When we say we come in wanting sex, but really it's intimacy, I find that most people are really after. So attention is tuning in, it's noticing, it's being interested in a partner and curiosity is assuming you don't actually know everything about this person. Even if you've been together 20 years, I guarantee that you do not know everything about them. They have inner thoughts that you have never heard. They have cravings, be it for ice cream flavors or memories or sports or you know there's just things that we, you know our little brains are going all the time about things. We get new stimuli through listening to media or reading things or drifting back to these vignettes of life. And so having curiosity about our person is really rich. If you can know that, that they have inner workings and lives that you should be curious about because when you're curious, it makes them brighten up. When you show interest and curiosity and give them attention, it's not feasible to do this all the time, but if you can do it sometimes, it feels really good to be on the receiving end of that. So curiosity, some attention, it leads to intimacy. The other caveat to those is if you don't have an agenda and if you don't have judgment as you do it, right? So if they're going to show you more dimension of themselves, then ideally when they're doing that, you're not judging it. You're not saying, oh that's gross or why would you want to go there or that turns you on or I hated that place or whatever. You're just hearing it with an open mind and sort of like, interesting. Okay. You don't yuck their yum, whatever their yum is, whatever their thing is, even if it's an old memory, like you just listen with some curiosity and openness. That feels really good to be on the receiving end. That's why people like therapy. Honestly, you guys, people come in and we as therapists sit and we go, wow, that's interesting and we don't have judgment. We don't, we sit in this non-judgmental place. We just listen and we encourage and we validate. Partners can do that too. I mean, I do it better probably for my clients than I do it for my spouse. I could probably do that better. But I'm saying when you do sit in that place and you really do that for somebody, it feels so good on the receiving end. Right? So it's like, if we can just be in relationship with our partners and I know that when I can channel that at home, it goes so much better. When I can say, tell me about your day, like what's going on? What'd you do? What'd you learn? What do you care about? Tell me about what you made for dinner and tell me about the fish market and who was there and I don't know, where'd you get this recipe and are you excited to make it? Like show some interest and curiosity in whatever they are doing or caring about and it will go a long way. Lastly, I guess I just want to tap into this piece of that it's not about fixing, impressing or performing in these exchanges. I'm going to slow that down because it's tricky and I do this stuff all the time, right? It's not about fixing. Some of us are fixers. I could be a fixer for sure. It's not about fixing though. It's about just showing up, being curious, being in it, right? Just being with somebody, meeting them where they are and just being together. That feels so much different. We do it with our friends better, although sometimes we're advice giving to our friends, but not fixing. Just being like, oh, interesting. And it's certainly not about impressing. We don't have to impress our partners, certainly if we've been together for years, we're less inclined to feel like we have to impress them than we are in the beginning. And it's not about performing. Sex oftentimes slides into that performance piece, but ideally, if we can just be with our partner, it feels so much better, right? And it's just about showing up. It's like having experiences together. That feels so much different. I learned about a few studies that kind of reinforce what I was noticing kind of in the room and I love when that happens because I'm like, yes, okay, I had this gut sense and now there's this like data, which is always helpful to back it up. Two things. One is that in 2023, the surgeon general declared loneliness as a public health crisis. That's not good. A lot of adults feel really freaking lonely. Even people who are in relationships feel lonely. Like they have somebody in the room, they have somebody in their bed, they are in partnership and they still feel super lonely. That's a lot of people. It's like one in five people feel very lonely adults. So being socially disconnected increases the risk of early death. It's bad. It increases like a whole bunch of different health risks. There's heart risk, there's increased stroke risk, there's dementia, there's depression, there's anxiety, all those things go up when you're lonely. Disconnection leads to loneliness and you don't have to be alone to be lonely. So that's why this is so important. We're trying to get us all back to connection. Right? And I'm with you is the idea of connection. So when you think about your own life, like do you have moments of loneliness? I think most of us do, but are you lonely often? Like are you feeling connected to your partner or disconnected to your partner more often? Would you like to feel more connected? I'm guessing you probably would. Most of us probably would. I'd take connection more. I think that would be a yes. So I think the Surgeon General report was really, was kind of eye opening of like how important loneliness is. Harvard also had a study on adult development and relationships and said that it was the strongest predictor of long-term well-being was relationships. Like having, they've been doing this study for like 80 years and they said that the strongest predictor of long-term well-being was good relationships. Hello. Right? It's not wealth. It's not health. It's like literally what is your, what is the quality of your relationships? And we have control, at least some control over that. So connection, it matters. Like it matters throughout the whole life cycle. It matters. So let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. A quick pause here to share something that I've been working on that I think you will really appreciate, especially if you've ever felt confused or disconnected from your sexual desire. It's a self-paced course that I created for women who want a better understanding of their sexual desire, especially if it's felt confusing, inconsistent or hard to access. A lot of us are taught that desires should just be there, effortless, spontaneous, always on, but that is not the reality for most people. And when it's not, it can leave you feeling frustrated or like something is wrong with you. If you've ever felt turned on one day and completely disconnected the next, or if you've struggled to say what you really want sexually, if you're both excited by the idea of vibrant sex and hesitant about what that even looks like, this course is for you. Desire is complex. It lives in your brain just as much as your body. And in this course, I guide you through the understanding of your unique relationship to it without pressure, shame or performance. You'll get short videos and guided worksheets to help you map out your personal erotic template, identify what turns you on and off and what shuts you down, understand the blocks might be getting in your way, reconnect with your body, and you'll explore your sexual self with more confidence and curiosity. You can go at your own pace. You don't need to want more sex. You just need to want to know yourself better. So if this resonates, then head on over to pleasureproject.us and learn more and enroll in the course. Now back to the episode. Welcome back. So couples don't usually fight about dishes or sex. I mean, it might seem like you're fighting about that. Like in the moment, you might have like a quick, but usually we're fighting about attention because what we're fighting about isn't really what we're fighting about. Like I fight too. Like I'll pick a fight. I'll pick a fight about something really dumb. Like, you know, I'm a chronic non-drawer closer. That's like the thing that we return to in my household that I do wrong is I don't close my drawers. And I don't even, it's weird. It's like I'm not aware that I don't do it. I don't do it on purpose, but I don't do it. And I, it's like, it's been pointed out to me like 6,000 times and I know it's annoying. I fancy myself like a tidy, organized, responsible person. And yet I don't close my drawers. They're like, it gets called out and I turn around and it's like, the drawers are all like half open. And I'm like, I don't know who did that, but it was me. So there's, that is a lack of attention for sure. That's me. I do that. I'll, I'll just, oh not, but we're not fighting fighting. Like we're really having conflict. We're fighting about other things, right? That's an annoyance. But if it escalated, it would be about something else because it's like, okay, yes, I have a little bit of an attention problem sometimes. But typically, when we're really having conflict in relationship, it's because it's about something else. And it's about usually quality of attention to one another. It's like, I don't feel like you like me or I don't feel like you're with me. That's when I feel like I want to lash out at you. When you don't seem like you care about me, when I don't feel special to you. I don't feel chosen. I don't feel special. I don't feel like I matter. I don't feel considered. That's when I want to fight with you. And it might come out like, yeah, it might come out like anger. Sometimes it comes out, but usually it's sadness actually that's underneath it all, but it might come out like a fight or an anger. So, you know, I'm always listening for that when I sit with people that are coming in in conflict. It's like, what's underneath it? And where, where is the breakdown happening? Where is the dance that's going on between them? So, look at your own cycle. And when it happens, notice what the feeling underneath the conflict is. Because again, you might be fighting about the dishes or the socks on the floor or the money, but it's not about that. It's about respect or it's about, it's about something else. It's about the feelings underneath it that are probably more relational. So, that's going to be where the real conversation needs to happen. So, let's talk about some practices that might be useful in this reconnection together. So, number one is how about just a check-in. And it doesn't have to be this long drawn out thing again. I'm aware that we all have busy lives, but let's try just like a 10 second check-in. 10 seconds, you can manage that. I've had, I've had clients do longer check-ins where they're making this like 60 second or 90 second eye contact and they break down and they're crying and they're having this whole like crazy experience or some just refuse to do it at all. But 10 seconds, you can manage that. Like you can do that. 10 seconds where you kind of turn towards each other, make eye contact, have some sort of presence with one another. Ideally, maybe you're even making some sort of contact. You can hold hands, whatever, you can just lightly touch something. It starts to melt some of the heat and the disconnection because you're tuning back in. We're animals, right? We're watching, we're looking, we're there, we're back in. We're clicking back in with one another. Totally different. Number two, let's find some sort of curiosity and that would be through like a question. So not like a daily task type question, but like something else. I was, I was driving home and I heard on NPR last night, they said, like, what's a form of magic to you? And I thought, oh, that's kind of a fun question. I like sort of, what's your spirit animal? You know, some sort of imaginative question, but like, what's a fun question that you don't already know the answer to that you'd like to hear from your partner? Just something, what would be something that would be fun to learn or to spark some sort of exchange? I would say ask that question. And it might be just tell me about your day, but also what might open up the discussion a little bit more than just like, yes and no, what happened? You know, because you want to get away from that you want to actually like have it be an opportunity to say more. So curiosity question would be a shorthand way to do that. Number three would be the phone down ritual, because the phone is so it's so intriguing. Whenever Apple sends me my weekly summary of how much I've used my phone, I'm like, Oh God, what's it going to say? It's not good. It's a lot. Right. This little computer follows us around. It's everything. It's, it's my clock. It's my, it's my recording device. It's my phone. It's my calendar. It's really, really easy to use it all the time. And so being able to put it down, being able to turn towards your partner, certainly during meals, but like even just for a chunk of time and really having the quality exchange carving out intentional non-screen time is going to be really valuable. Try it. I know it's going to be agitating. It's going to feel a little weird, but try it. And for those of you that maybe have some ADHD and you're like, but I need to now get a fidgeter, get something else that's not a device that's not your phone, because that feels particularly distancing to your partner. You know, if you need to do something with your hand, that's okay. Do that, but still try to hold some eye contact. Try to have some presence that feels intentional because I think it'll go better. So number one was the 10 second check-in. Number two was the curiosity question. And number three was having a phone down ritual at least for some of the time. It's not feel manageable. Hopefully the goal is, the goal is reconnection. So just kind of thinking back to that opening vignette that I laid out of, you know, and there's a million versions of this, right? Where you're rushing through life or you're, you're just in your own bubble. You've got big lives. You've got stuff going on. Your partner does too, but then they're like, hey, they make a bid for attention and for interaction. And you're like, wow, okay, I didn't plan on giving you this moment, but now you need me or you want me. And can you carve out some time? Can you give some attention? Can you slow down? You do it with your kids, hopefully. Can you do it with your partner? You do it with your animals. Can you do it with your partner? You know, just small pauses, you know, can be as powerful, you know, as a prescription, it's medicine. This is medicine for like, for love and for, you know, for the relationship. So yeah, science tells us that connection protects our bodies and our minds. So we need to be in this relationship in an intentional way. And my invitation is to try one practice, notice the shift, and I would love to hear your story. So if you guys have experiences of doing one of these things, let me know. I would love to hear it. Please comment, please share. If you like what you're hearing, please rate the podcast. It's really, really helpful. And I look forward to your input. So thanks so much. Hey, it's Dr. Jen. Thanks so much for tuning in. Please leave us a review and leave a comment if something struck you. We'd love to get the feedback. It really helps the podcast. And if you want to reach me, go ahead and direct message me on Instagram, or you can reach me at Jen at revieratherapy.com. Thanks.
