Episode 513: It's PayDay!

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I'm outstanding, Conrad Bradshaw 316. I just stole your fucking podcast. Well, I am so glad you did and we appreciate all of you being here with us today. And what a day it is. John, I don't know if you know this or not, but our great post personal friend, the man behind the scenes, the man who makes it all happen. You know him. You love him. The stud muffin Dave Silva is celebrating a birthday today. Happy birthday, Mr. So happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Super Porky want to be happy birthday to you. I like that you've started calling him super porky. Did you know that good old J.R. calls him bull ramus? I didn't know that. Well, actually, I did not, you know, I psycho clown. I like psycho clowns. Good friend of mine. I wrestled super porky back in the 90s. Stud muffin Dave Silva actually referred to himself as the new Stokes super porky. So that's where I got it from. So I'd love to claim it for myself, but he actually referred to himself as that he's a very creative guy. And it's his birthday. He's 92 today. Can you believe, by the way, that he has recorded four podcasts with me today on his birthday? He is a workaholic. He is a workaholic. And I hope that he has a great day after his birthday because I personally have ruined his birthday. But we appreciate all of us getting together here to talk about something to rassle. We should start with some big news. Normally, John and I record on Thursdays. We're actually recording a day early. We've got some travel. Stay tuned for more details on that. The big news today on Wednesday is the passing of Ted Turner and Ted Turner, obviously, in a wrestling context, represents WCW. But boy, what a pioneer he was in cable television and so many other things. But TBS, TNT, CNN, the Hawks, the Braves. I mean, you go on and on and on. They don't make them like this anymore. Do they, John? No, they don't. That man was a freaking entrepreneur. What an unbelievable pioneer Ted Turner was. You know, we go back to Jim Barnett. You know, Jim Barnett has done so much with so many people. Started the Dumont Network in Chicago, doing it to Australia when he had a little problem with the Kentucky football team. Yeah, a slight problem. And he went to Australia and with Rupert Murdoch lit up the world on fire down there and national television down in Australia came back, got with Ted Turner and did the same thing here. I mean, you know, there's a huge correlation here with Jim Barnett. But Ted Turner, what a freaking legend in the business. A media maverick creating 24 hour news networks, really creating cable television passing away at 87 years old. And, you know, I don't know that this is in the cards, but I hope it is. I don't even think he would have cared about this much success in his life. But I hope he goes in the WWE Hall of Fame next year, John, because so much of what we appreciate and enjoy today really was based on him supporting wrestling, whether it's buying the Croquettes or going head to head with with Monday Night Raw and creating what we still talk about as the Monday Night Wars. Or if you're watching along with us on something to wrestle.com, we're seeing a photo right now of the contract signing of the first ever live on paper view matchup with Rick Flair and Hulk Hogan. A lot of people thought it should have happened back in 92 at WrestleMania eight. It happened two years later in July of 94. And it set a record. But the idea that Ted Turner was really a friend to wrestling, you know, an ally, a believer, an advocate, whatever Paul Heyman would call himself for Brock Lesnar. That's what Ted Turner was for wrestlers. Don't you think? Absolutely. Yeah. And he changed the world. You know, he changed the world of regional regional sports networks first. You know, when he got the Atlanta Braves and he's put them on his network, he owned the network and the baseball team that changed the world. Now you watch Ness. Yes. Network. It's changing because of streaming. It's changing again. But now you have the Braves on there who you don't have to worry about making money for the baseball team from ticket sales and from just revenue. You also got free content on your network with those guys, you know, 80 something plus home games, plus, you know, 162 games for the entire year. Same thing with wrestling. You know, when we were competing with Mr. Turner, you know, he owned the network. So it wasn't like he had to make money off pay per views or he had to make money off. Simple live gates or television revenue because he owned the network. He also that guy was content to him and basically free content. You know, it came from somewhere, but because he changed the model, I mean, changed it absolutely completely. He was an absolute pioneer. And if he hadn't left, he hadn't had that time or merger, which is one of the worst corporate mergers in the history of corporations, not on his side, on the other side that significantly overpaid for all this stuff. This would have, you know, wrestling could have, could have been, could have been different. I still think Vince probably wins, but it would have changed. You know, I know that he certainly had his critics. Everybody did, but I love the rivalry as much as it may have been a one sided rivalry between Vince McMahon and Ted Turner because during the Monday night wars, it does feel like whenever we would see Vince come out and say something about WCW. More often than not, he wasn't talking about Bischoff. He was talking about Ted Turner. And I know that, you know, wrestling was Vince's life's work, whereas this was just one of Ted's many businesses. But I love that he just did things his own way. I'm looking at a tweet today from Josh Billinson who wrote, thinking about the time Ted Turner fired the manager of the Atlanta Braves and appointed himself as the replacement to try to figure out why the team was so bad. Break a 16 game losing streak. He managed for one game in 1977 before the national league told him he couldn't do that. They must have put that rule in yesterday. If I'm smart enough to save 11 million to buy the team ought to be smart enough to manage it. I don't know why, but that tickles me. He was the best. I mean, he's the one that created, you know, and when Vince was fighting WCW, you know, he was fighting Ted Turner because he's the one that created an unfair environment. I say unfair, there's nothing wrong with that. That's what you want. You want an unfair environment. You want the odds on your side. That's what Ted Turner created because he owned the network. He had so much more flexibility financially than WB did who just had to make money off of straight wrestling product. He didn't have content that was going to USA Network and Vince had owned USA Network. It would have been the same. Now you're getting your content from your wrestling, which you also own. Ted Turner was quite the pioneer. I think he really regretted in his life getting rid of CNN. I mean, I think he really hated the fact that he did. I mean, he took a huge payoff, but I think he was a worker. He wasn't a guy that wanted to retire on his Buffalo ranch and just kind of run off in the sunset. He wanted to go out working. And I think he really regretted selling CNN and Time Warner. I can't wait to see all the different tributes that are going to be popping up in the coming days and weeks for Ted Turner. But man, his impact on pro wrestling, I don't think can be stated fondly enough and proudly enough. I know that it was really a blip in the history of his life. It wasn't all that important relative to all the other things, but put an impact he left in this space. We actually talked to Eric Bischoff earlier today. He argued that WWE and AEW in the way they exist today wouldn't be that way without Ted Turner. And I don't think I don't think he's that far off. What was his argument? Well, his argument being that just the format of the show and the way the format that exists now for all wrestling shows was largely built out of nitro. And that was built out of necessity. Hey, how do we compete and go head to head with a Monday Night Raw? And even furthermore on the AEW front, would wrestling be on TVS and TNT if there wasn't a legacy in the history there? Like, I don't know. I think it's interesting the debate that's going to happen in the coming weeks. Where is Ted Turner's place in wrestling? I think it's got to be up there. Yeah, I did too. And you always wonder what would happen if he didn't have that merger, that Time Warner AOL merger, because Ted was very interested in wrestling. He always said, the longest he was there, he's always going to have wrestling. But once you had that merger, they didn't care. They didn't care at all about wrestling. You listen to anybody who dealt with the executives. Nobody gave a crap about anything wrestling did. That was Ted Turner's baby, though. You know, if Ted Turner had stayed, you wonder how things might have changed because Ted was a complete pioneer and he was a very smart guy. A guy that could do that. You know, if you're Vince McMahon, you don't want him 100% invested in that wrestling product because he's a very, you would be a very good competitor. Let's talk a little bit about the other news that everybody's talking about this week. But before we do, I want to go ahead and give a plug to our friends over at Factor. 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John, the headline this week is not necessarily a good headline, but it is necessary in business. And some people are saying it's the cost of doing business. Other people are throwing the flags. Obviously it's an emotional conversation when you're talking about people losing their jobs or having to take a pay cut. That's going to be front and center for some of our discussions today. There's a report out that TKO has come and asked some of their performers to restructure their contract. And some of those have went along with it and it does feel like it's a little bit of a witch hunt to sort of name names online, which I think is a little silly. I want to remind the people who are doing that, hey, the folks you're wanting to be publicly named and shamed have to make the decision the best for their family. They're not taking a vote here. They've got to make a good business decision for their family. So I hope that that will subside. But two of those folks who were asked allegedly to take a pay cut said, Hey, thanks, but no thanks. I'm talking specifically about Xavier Woods and Kofi Kingston, two of the more beloved figures in WWE. Kofi's probably one of the more tenured figures in WWE. Once upon a time, these guys set every record as a tag team act for the longest reign and Xavier Woods became king of the ring. And certainly we know Kofi and one of the more touching moments in WWE history became world champion. People still point to that moment as a triumph. He had a long run. He did it all. But now it feels like all good things must come to an end. Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods, I guess, will be officially released in just under 90 days. And I assume we'll start appearing outside of the tent of WWE. Were you surprised to hear this news that Kofi and Xavier are no more? Yes, 100%. Yeah, yeah, I figured they'd just be lifers there. I really thought that, you know, I don't know what happened with the contract from the other side. I have no idea what these guys are betting on themselves. Good for them. I tell you an interesting story, or I think it's interesting story. I love when people used to go to events, go, events, I got something you'll love. I'll be the judge of that. I always love when he said that. So I don't know if it's interesting to you or not. You may hate it. You may think it sucks. Dave Sylvain may go, why in the world is he telling me this shit on my birthday? I don't even want to be here. But I was down in Malawi and I was working with BoBaeC Pride, this wonderful group, Nick Keller, the big group, sorry, that's to be honest with you, Nick. You guys down in BoBaeC Pride were building a school and a rugby field sports facility for a bunch of kids in an area 45 north of a long way. And I'm working with a bunch of kids out there one day and they spoke Cheyewan. I didn't speak very much Cheyewan. They didn't speak much English. I'm trying to communicate with them and never did, you know, I want to help them. You know, we're there to help me get job skills and you'll get educated, you know, hopefully get out of, you know, some of the deep poverty that they're in. It's one of the poorest areas in the world. And I can't communicate with them. Finally, one of the kids go, you know, Kofi? I mean, God, right, I'm in a place. I am probably 10 miles from a road, 10 miles from electricity lines, 10 miles from running water. There's no, there's nothing where I am. It's one of the poorest areas of the world. And I looked at this kid and I said, Kofi Kingston? I couldn't, it was shocked me. I've told Kofi this story. And one of the kids goes, New Day, you got to be kidding me. And because of that, I connected with them. We got some stuff. You know, those kids, they got about a thousand kids in the program and they're not because of that, but because of the wonderful people at the FACI Pride. But it was unbelievable to be in an area like that. And Kofi Kingston was the one person that all these kids wanted to talk about. That Kofi mania was legit. I mean, he was a freaking, is a freaking global superstar. So is Xavier Woods. Those guys are incredibly talented. I've worked with them a ton of times. I love working with them. They're very smart. They don't have to worry about anything with a script or getting them throwing them off or anything. You can't throw them off. Not smart guys like that. And so if they're betting on themselves, that's what it is. Good for them. They are going to be absolutely fine because those are incredibly talented people. I know there's a lot of people who are upset with WWE and TKO about this. And I get that because you never want to see somebody lose their jobs, but I don't want anyone to think that for whatever reason, Xavier Woods and Kofi Kingston were singled out. There's a report that, hey, there's at least a half dozen other talent who were approached. I'll just speculation about some of the names who accepted those new contract renegotiations, if you will. But it's not just the on camera performers. Allegedly, a fellow who worked in the television side of the business who'd been with the company since 2001. He too was recently shown the door after 25 years of working with the company. I'm not saying that to pile on TKO. I'm just saying, John, this reads to me is almost like, hey, there was a mandate that we've got to reduce our budget in every department by X number of percentage. And inevitably, what you wind up doing is you look to see, hey, where can we cut the most costs? Because you want to eliminate as few jobs as you can, but save as much money as you can. So where do you look? Maybe you don't look to your tippy top, your guys on your posters and your collector cups and your WrestleMania main events. But you probably also don't look to your younger talent that you just brought up and maybe on more reasonable contracts. You look for, hey, who are the tenured guys who may be creatively? We've sort of done everything. And because they're more tenured, they're probably earning more. We go offer them the opportunity to reconsider. I know it sucks, but it does feel like it's not unique to specific talent. It's just across the board. TKO, right? Yeah, it is. And it's just a corporation. That's what it is. You know, it's a corporation mindset and they're making a ton of money. They're doing something right and look, they don't adopt you. That's the mistake that people think that they make. Because you work there, because you've been very successful, you've been paid for that. Does that mean they have to keep you for life? No, absolutely not. It doesn't. You're not adopted. You're hired. And that always comes to an end. There are guys who stay around and will be around forever, but for the most part, guys come and go. And that's just part of life. I'll tell you an interesting story, which I don't think I've ever told. I was prepping for surgery. And they're going to quote this and they're going to throw him under the bus and he doesn't deserve it. Not for this or I don't know about for anything else. Not for this. I was prepping for surgery and Laura and I just called me and says, we want to reduce your contract. I'm preparing for it. I'm about to be out for six months. I'm literally in the hospital and I had my cell phone with you. You know how if you have survived a bunch of surgeries, you go into surgery and you've got your cell phone with you until they knock you out. I've learned though, be sure to take my cell phone from me. Don't let me have it until I become completely coherent because there's no idea what I'm going to do on it. I've done that before too. Laura and I just called me and says, hey, we want to give you, we're going to restructure your contract. They never say we're giving you a pay cut. I'm just like, you got to be kidding me. I'm looking down and I'm about to get these my arm and I'm looking down. Years later, I talked to Johnny about it and he had no idea. It just happened. I tell you what, I was pissed off about that for quite some time because I thought it was on purpose. It turns out it wasn't. Anyway, Johnny has enough problems with people piling on him for something that wasn't his fault for him, for people to pile on. I've had it done too. Whether I was prepping for surgery or not, they told me at the time we're going to reduce your salary. I was making good money. Bradshaw was running out. Nobody knew JBL was coming. They thought my career was pretty much done. I was in that same boat Conrad. It was that same boat where I was making quite a bit of money and I wasn't being used that much. I wasn't the top guy and I wasn't the new guy. I'm exactly the people you're talking about. I had the same thing done. I thought, you know what? This is the downside guarantee, which is a little bit different from now. I thought, I don't care because if I deserve it, I'm going to make a lot more money. If I don't deserve it, I always thought I shouldn't get paid anyway. It didn't really bother me. It's a little bit different now because there's not downside guarantees because there are not as many house shows and pay-per-views that you can make several times your salary. I think I made at one point a good lord, 10 or 15 times my downside guarantee when I had to run. Something like that. I never cared about having a huge downside because I always thought it was a meritocracy. One of the things I want to point out is one of the names that's been floated around, I don't know that it's public yet, but one of the people who agreed to a pay cut allegedly has the story goes, John. That person had like a $4 million a year deal and now it's a $2 million a year deal. I know that there's a contingent online who are like, hey, you got to stand up and do what's right. Do you realize what you're saying? If you have a new five-year deal at $2 million a year, who walks away from $10 million a year in the twilight of their career? Let's be honest, a much easier schedule than he originally signed up for, like the amount of travel versus the amount of time you're home back then versus now. The quality of life is through the roof. This is still a great deal. I hope people will just be a little more realistic and have a little more grace if guys are deciding, hey, you know what? That's still a pretty good deal and I'm happy here. I don't think it's our business as fans. Let them do what they want to do and make the decision that's best for them. Yeah, Conor, in my first year in WWE, the only year I've actually released any numbers. I don't mind saying that number. I worked every single live event I believe. I worked every single pay-per-view I believe. I made, I think, seven or eight years ago. I believe I made, I think, $76,000 or something like that. I mean, and I know that was, you know, almost 30 years ago. I understand that, but you don't make any money when you're on the road 300 days a year and you have to have a rental car every day. You have to have a hotel every day. You have to have food every day. I mean, you just don't make any money. And now for people to say, oh man, I don't know if I can get my own two million a year, which I don't hear. I'm saying that, but, you know, that's the presumption that that's what they're thinking. Good Lord, man. The real world's tough and what they're getting paid, good for them. And if they're getting cut, look, it's traumatic, but you got to decide, okay, is it worth it to stay and take this? Remember, Conor, I've been through this before. I thought it was worth it to stay for me because I thought I still got a chance to do something. And I did. I became JBL and made that downside guarantee that Lauren Otis gave me. That's the one I made 10 or 12 X of what that downside guarantee was. I wasn't worried about it. You know, and a lot of these guys, you know, you can go out, you can make a name for yourself or you can take guaranteed money. There's not a wrong answer. I'm really excited to see what's next for these guys because as a reminder, they're going to do fabulous outside of the tent and WWE. I do realize that they've lost a little bit of leverage and I feel like right now there's a large portion of the internet wrestling community that's understanding what leverage means. Like it's if for some reason WWE hypothetically, and I'm making up numbers, this is not the number, but it's just easy for our experience here. Hey, you were making two million a year and okay, well, I'll just go to AEW and make two million a year. Well, there's no reason for AEW to pay you two million a year because it's not like there's any other bidder at that price. So even if it's a half of that and it's a million dollars, you're going to wind up working on Wednesdays, Sean. That's right. Which means your weekends are available. Yeah. Which means you can go print money on the convention circuit and you can probably do a podcast and you can probably do your gaming show and other outside endorsements. Like it's not over for these guys that they're going to get to try some new things and make a whole lot of money and have a whole lot of fun. They're going to be fine, Sean. Conrad, you're 100 percent. We didn't have all this stuff. You know, like back in the 90s, you know, like when I get like a pay cut, I mean, we didn't have all this stuff. We didn't have these silly phones that you can build a brand off of. We didn't have the ability to work because of business model of change where there's basically no live events and where you can create another business. You can actually run another business. You're home so much right now. You can start a new life because you're home so much. Use the news what you're getting the name off of the money that you're making on television because you're home most of the time. You know, that's not a bad lifestyle. You know, I've been the other way where guys, you know, in my generation didn't have a lot of side stuff. And the reason was because we work all the freaking time and we didn't have these phones where people build brands off social media, off Instagram, off Tiktok, off Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it. These guys have a real opportunity here. And if you're creative, use what that is and leverage that and make you something else because it will make you more valuable where you are as well. We know that Xavier Woods took to social media and he wrote a beautiful message. He said, let me wind down with some advice. Do your best to live a life without regrets. Control what you can control. Always give it your all and fight hard for what you believe in. Do not ever compromise or accept less than you're due when it comes to your worth and find the courage to believe in yourself and fearlessly pursue your goals and dreams because anything is possible. And so as the sun sets on one chapter, so too it must rise in another. Tomorrow is indeed a new day. We're all pulling for Kofi and Xavier on the outside of WWE, whatever's next in their future endeavors. Conrad, these guys, this whole new day, throw Big E in there as well. I worked these guys a ton and I was always kind of the foil, the heel that would, the old guy they would play tricks on or whatever it was. I was always the fool. They were always incredibly generous. They had asked me, is this okay? Is this okay to say that? These were incredibly generous guys. They were not selfish guys who got over at other people's expense. They got over because they were creative, which I got a lot of respect for those guys. I got a lot of love for those guys. You know, when those guys in the Usos were having battles, man, that was, there's a pretty good time. I got to say, I think there's a lot of people, myself included, who would have assumed, hey, if you're making great money and they come to you and they ask you to renegotiate, to meet their fiscal goals and they want you to take a pay cut. That a lot of people may say, hey, you know what, I'm going to stick with the devil. I know. I got to say, you know what, I'm going to bet on myself and I'm going to see what life is like outside of these confines of the wall. I think that's a power move. Just like hiring Morgan and Morgan is a power move. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They've got over a hundred offices nationwide with more than a thousand lawyers. Over $30 billion has been recovered for like half a million clients. So Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation. I'll take my word for it. Check out this story. In Florida, a client recently received $6.1 million. That's after the insurance company's best offer was only a hundred grand over in Georgia. Another family got 29 and a half million up in Nashville. A different client got 10.6 million. If you're injured by the negligence of another, you deserve to be paid. If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go right now to for the people.com slash wrestle or dial pound law. That's pound five to nine on your cell phone. That's f o r the people.com slash wrestle or punch pound law. That's pound five to nine on your cell phone. This is a paid advertisement. Don, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I am curious. You've seen a lot of WWE contracts through the years. And I think one of the things that's giving people heartburn is that there's some misconceptions about a WWE contract recently talked to our gimmick attorney, Mike Dawkins. He's at gimmick attorney on social media or you can go to gimmick attorney.com. He's not just helping people secure their trademarks and secure their IP and copyright things and patent law. He's actually representing talent. So he's seen some contracts from WWE and from AEW and TNA and other companies. So he's familiar with this. I know a lot of times people sort of miscategorize and misclassify the term non compete. In reality, they don't have a non compete. They're still under employee. They've been giving like a 90 day notice that, Hey, these are your last 90 days. But I think what's giving a lot of people heartburn is a lot of these talent, including those that were released a couple of weeks ago, like Alistair Black. They had a term, you know, X number of appearances per year for X number of years in exchange for a certain sum of money. And now when the company comes back and says, Hey, we know we just signed that last year and we know you're supposed to be in a contractual 2030. But it's not meeting our goals anymore. So we need to renegotiate. How does that strike the locker room? Do you think does this affect morale or is everybody sort of mind in their own business? Once upon a time I heard wrestler say, Hey, you never ask anybody what anybody else is being paid. Everybody just sort of keeps their head down and it's nobody's business. You think any of that has changed or when something like this happens, does everybody start to get nervous and it becomes a topic of conversation? I think it becomes a bit of a topic of conversation. But you know, some there's nothing wrong with guys being nervous. You know, I've been there and I've been, you know, flew a lot with Vince and Kevin and got to be part of, you know, not a part of decisions. I don't want to overstate what I was. I don't want to embellish at all. But I got to hear a lot of things. And, you know, sometimes, you know, they'd say, you know, you make a move because you want to put people on alert. You know, maybe you let someone go because you want to put people on alert. You know, sometimes people get too comfortable and some people, you know, it's not a kumbaya moment. You know, you're still trying to make it in this business. And I see some of these locker rooms. There's nothing wrong with that. We had a great morale in our locker room and a great feeling of community in our locker rooms. But I wanted somebody else to spot and that person knew I wanted their spot and they were fighting me to keep me from getting their spot. I mean, sometimes people get too comfortable. And so I think it's okay sometimes for people to go, you know what? The restructuring contracts, maybe I need to pick it up here a little bit. And by the way, you know, I've talked with a lot of people, counseled a lot of people that have called me and asked for advice. And I always appreciate that respect and the confidentiality I've always kept. But they've asked me, hey, I can take this much money from WB for the next number of years. They're not going to use me much or I can go off and try to make a name for myself. And, you know, my point is there's not a wrong answer. It's whatever you feel comfortable with. And that's what I want to tell all these guys and girls out there now, you know, there's nothing wrong with taking the money. Nothing. So well, in three years, they're not going to use me. Yeah, but you're getting paid. You're taking care of your family, put money in the bank, you're making your life better. Now, do you want to go all in? I'm one of the all in people because that's just my nature. I love putting it all on the table and just see what happens. Not everybody's that way. And some people want to go all in. Cody Rhodes went all in. Brock Lesnar went all in. They hit it big, you know, but if they hadn't, you know, they lose big too. I mean, with great rewards, a lot of times comes great risk and the downside is just as bad as the upside is good. And so there's not really a wrong answer here. Now that we understand, you know, some of the fiscal responsibility that TKO is going to be practicing sort of top down and they're certainly looking to, you know, deliver the maximum shareholder value that they can. So that means, hey, let's make as much as we can by spending as little as we can. And I know that upsets some feelings, but that is the way business works. I mean, that is the very definition of business. Now with the benefit of hindsight, I can't help but take a look and wonder to myself, self, that may be why Brock Lesnar pulled his boots and gloves off in the ring at WrestleMania. Is that why we saw AJ Styles finish up at the Royal Rumble? Because these are guys who've done it all been, you know, in every sort of circumstance, won every championship, every type of main event. But if they're going for more of a youth movement and Vince did this once upon a time, he was able to move on from Hulk Hogan, for goodness sake. He was able to move on from Stone Cold Steve Austin. He was able to move on from the Rock. So it's not like it can't be done. Yeah, but we do see like a new influx of talent and it does feel like there's a bit of a changing in the guard. And maybe some of that is based on, hey, we were paying that when we hadn't used you before and we were trying to promote you in the main events. But now if we see you in a different role and we're not going to be using you in that same capacity, do you think those could have been connected? Do you think that has anything to do with AJ and Brock or do you think they just made a personal decision? I think those two made a personal decision. You know, and again, you're the one that brought up that Brock might be negotiating with you. That's fucking, that's great if he is. I'm such a big fan of Brock and a big fan of guys who would be willing to do that. You know, Cody Rose did the same thing a couple of years ago with Russell Mania and the point. I love it. I think it's different with AJ and with Brock. I think those guys just go to the beat of their own drummer. I don't know if Brock has retired or not. I have no idea the storyline or what's in his head or anything else. I hope he hasn't because I like watching him. AJ Styles the same. He just goes to, he's a beat of his own drum. I think a lot of these other guys, you know, it's very simple. You know, when guys like Pat McAfee come in, guys like Jelty Roll come in, we had the Rock come in, we had Schwarzenegger come in. Listen, if you guys are drawing big enough ratings, they won't bring these guys in. And these guys are drawing big ratings, by the way. But when you don't have a spot for those guys, if everybody on the roster is more over than them, that's why they're coming in. Become indispensable and this, this doesn't happen. You know, part of it is, you know, you have to look at why you and it's not always that something is against you. You know, Kofi and Xavier, I think they have tons and tons of talent. They're going to be so successful anywhere. But a lot of these guys, they look around and think, why would they release me? Well, maybe you hadn't earned your keep. I don't know that. I don't know how they, they measure that. But I know that you don't need guys like Pat McAfee or Jelty Roll. If everybody else is more over than them. Well, it's also true that, you know, both of these guys are going to bring potentially a new set of eyeballs, you know, people from outside the tent. So, you know, you can start super serve the base or you can try to, you know, grow, you know, new fans and get new eyeballs on your product. So I'll never be against the idea of bringing people from the outside into wrestling the way a lot of people on are. I do want to ask you, do you think, I mean, I think this is just part of it and I'm not trying to speak ill of anybody. But once upon a time, Vince McMahon specifically and others in WWE creative, I'm sure, saw Cody Rhodes and said, let's paint him up like his brother and call him Stardust. And they kind of had him boxed in their vision for what Cody was their ceiling that they thought Cody had was Stardust. He had to say, you know what, thanks, but no thanks and go prove otherwise. And then comes back to a hero's welcome. He's reinvented himself and now he's crushing it. That's the exact same story of Drew McIntyre, who was member of the three man band. Hey, we're going to put you out here and sort of a comedy gimmick as a trio. He had to, you know, go recreate himself. He comes back. Now he's a megastar. Do you think this is perhaps because we've seen New Day be so successful for so long that perhaps it's like creatively they're boxed in now. The audience knows them as New Day. There's an expectation for what New Day will or won't be like that does sort of paint you into a corner. Whereas if they pop up somewhere else, whether it's T and A or A, W or New Japan or any other walk of life, they're not going to be able to be called New Day. And Xavier Woods is going to go by Austin Creed. Kofi is going to go by Kofi something or other. I'm sure, but it has to be a little different than what their New Day presentation is. I think in the end, this could be this could wind up being a net positive for everybody involved. I think it's a huge net positive for everybody involved. Look, I can I've been down this road before I've seen it. I've seen this. I've seen this movie so many freaking times. I know these guys. These guys are unbelievably creative guys and you tell them you can't use New Day. They'll come up with something different. You tell me you can't do this. They'll come up with something different. I can get on. I can guarantee you if they want to. That's the biggest thing. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they just want to go off in the sunset. I doubt that's true. I hope it's not. They're going to be bigger stars in a year than they are right now. I mean, look at what's out there. There's not a lot of things that are out there that are that are drawing money. I'm talking about outside of the say the big two, the big three, the one T and A, you know, A, W, W, B. Those guys are going to draw money. There's some guys out there. The Hardys draw money. Dolph Ziggur, I think draws money. There's some guys out there that do. You're adding a huge new element to that. Those guys in a year, I think, could be some of the biggest stars in wrestling. And you will see a bidding war to get those guys back. I'm so glad you said that because you know what immediately happens whenever you see these releases. Fans start to circle and they say, OK, then the announcement was made on this day. So now let's go count 90 days so they can show up. They'll be here in time for such and such show. I almost wonder, does absence make the heart grow fonder? Do you sort of drag it out and when everybody expects you to show up? Because, you know, listen, I'm not trying to be critical of creative. Creative is subjective. There was once an A.W. paper review where there were three people who debuted. So you've got three big jumps on the same show. Like if I was a wrestler and I don't know shit about wrestling, I think I would say, yeah, I don't want to do that. If there's two other people who are debuting, I want my debut to be the talk of the show. Like I don't want to be one of many. And I do feel like with this new rash of releases, if that is to be the case, even as a wrestling fan, I'd rather see them spaced out a little bit. Where would you land on that? Would you want because I understand there's a catch 22 because I'm saying that creatively. But financially, I'd like to start getting paid as soon as I can. So I understand not wanting a gap, but there is a balancing act there. Where do you land on that? I land on control that your environment. And I think they're going to be able to because I'm telling you that these guys are unbelievably creative. The stuff they've done with their video games up, up, down, down and all that stuff they've done. They created a lot of this new day persona themselves. You know, I was in the creative meetings or part of the creative meetings. We had creative meetings as part of the production meeting. So I got to hear part of the credit, not the creative that they had on Thursday, created the had all day off. And I'd hear them write promos for Big E. You want to write like a Southern evangelist. One thing leads to another leads to another leads to another leads to another. The river outflows the banks. The banks outflows the city. The city flows. It's like righteousness. You start putting that together. And people from the South understand that. But you guys writing for Big E that didn't understand it. When Big E and those guys started taking ownership of it. That's when you see these guys get over like a million freaking dollars. And I think that's what they're going to do here. I would rather own what you do as far as you're talking about you appearing as soon as you can. I would rather own. I don't care how big a place it is. I mean, I don't care if it's T and A, which is one of the big ones, or some independence somewhere. As long as you own it and as long as you can control it, as long as you have the one that has the video to put out on your social media. That's what's more important is control and getting over. And I think those guys understand that. I'm telling you, I think these two guys out of all of these people that are not resigning for whatever reason, they're the two that are going to be incredible stars in a year bigger than they even are right now. I can't argue that at all. And me and you have talked on the show and offline. You do a lot of convention appearances and you tell me to this day, one of the biggest lines at every event you attend is the Hardy Boys. It's unreal. Can you imagine even fresher off of TV for the first time ever? That line is going to be insane for Creed and Kofi. Don't you think? Yes. And one thing the Hardys do, which I'm such a big fan of because I sit right beside them because we work for one of the same guys, Tony Hunter. Shout out to our guy who does a great job. I saw we see me in one near them a lot. They greet every fan. Jeff Hardy draws some crazy thing on every autograph. One reason they take so long to get through his fans. They greet every fan. It doesn't matter if there's freaking 500 of them in line. They make every fan a personal experience. And that's one of the reasons they're so freaking popular because they're so personal. Kofi and Xavier are just like this. Fans are going to walk away from that. They're going to spend a ton of money at their table and then they're going to walk away and go, man, that was freaking awesome. They did this. They did that. They told me this. They made a joke about this. They did an impersonation of this. They're going to do stuff like that. These guys are going to get over like, I'm telling you, I'm willing to bet almost anything on those two guys a year from now being bigger stars than they are right now. We were recording today as a lot of the quarterly reports are coming out about WWE. We've got an update on all that. But first, I want to brag about our friends over at Quince. You know, lately I've been more intentional about what I'm wearing day to day. I'm leaning into pieces that are easy, comfortable, but still feel put together. It just makes getting dressed simpler. Quince has become a go to the fabrics feel elevated. The fits are clean and everything just works without ever needing to really overthink it. Quince has all the wardrobe staples this spring. Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts from just 34 bucks. Lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but you still look put together and clean 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt to believe. Their pants also hit that same balance, relaxed, but comfortable, but still polished enough to wear pretty much anywhere. Everything is priced like 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting premium materials without the markup. I highly want to recommend that you go check out. And I don't know if you've done this already. The 100% merino wool all season short sleeve base layer tee. Dude, you can wear that under a sport coat or just buy itself and it looks like a million bucks, but it's like 39 bucks. Go see for yourself. You're absolutely going to love Quince. Refresh your every day with luxury you'll actually use. Head on over to quince.com slash wrestle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada to that's Q I N C E dot com slash wrestle for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash wrestle. So John, you're a finance guy. I can't wait to hit you with this. Brandon Thurston is tweeting right now some other reports from these quarterly earnings. And we're seeing the three months that ended at March 31st and we're getting a comparison of 2025 to 2026 and it is remarkable. The boost in live events and hospitality. They went from 76.3 in 2025 to 123.5 an incredible number. The difference for total revenue. Obviously this is in millions in the first quarter of 2025 is 391.5. Now it's 475.7. They've increased revenue 22%. That's 84.2 million. But the biggest driver was 47.2 million increase in live events and hospitality revenue. Of course, there's a 30 million dollar increase in media rights. Everywhere you look man, TKO is just winning. Now I know that a lot of times whenever this conversation happens, people immediately want to talk about contracts. Let's just take a time out about contract cuts and all that. You have been a guy who's been savvy with Wall Street and investments for a long, long time. You wrote a book called Have More Money Now. You've got a financial podcast called Have More Money Now. These are big league numbers. What do you make of this report? Insane numbers and if you look at what they're doing, I mean they're hitting on all cylinders. So this dynamic pricing is unbelievable. It's changed live events. The NFL was going down, I think Australia and they were bragging about how they sold out their tickets in an hour. And I thought you got to fire somebody. You morons don't know how to price tickets. If you're selling out tickets in an hour, people used to brag about that. All that tells you is you have no idea what the market is because you've underpriced everything. You're selling out a couple of hours before the event starts. You've priced your tickets perfectly. And that's what WBDB is doing. Now they're not always selling out, but they're getting incredible revenue for those tickets because of this dynamic pricing. But a lot of other stuff they're doing. I mean they're bringing in all of this different revenue into wrestling. People say, oh, that's destroying wrestling. Bullshit. I mean, come on. Look, I was in pro wrestling and I was in sports entertainment. There's no comparison. What these guys are making now, when I want a commercial during my match, by the way, internationally with all the streaming stuff, you know, that's pretty much a North American function. But if I want a commercial in a match, yeah, if I'm getting paid double, hell yeah, I want a commercial in my match. I want several commercials in my match. I mean, look, the business has changed and it's changed significantly for the better. I mean, people love to bitch about layoffs. They love to bitch about cutting here or there. And so what? I mean, life is not always just the sweet little road. You go down and everything's hunky dory. You know, it just shit happens. But this is a very well run company. Yeah, you want to talk about a safe place to invest. I would think that TKO stock is about as safe as it gets. Holy shit. I don't know what it's up Conrad. I've had it since the IPO. You know, when the IPO came out, I think we got, I think it was $17 or something like that. I can't remember exactly what it was. Anyway, it came out double the price. And I bought as many shares as I could. Actually more than I probably could afford. And I thought, man, this thing's double. I'm selling it. I never, I never told Vince because Vince would have got hot. It guys that sold it because they wanted people to hold on to the stock. But I got to double my money here. This is awesome. So I sold it the first day right at the open. And then I bought it back later, you know, in the teens. So I've had WB stock a decent amount for, since the teens, it's been one of my best performers. And I'm still happy with it. It started at $17 a share on October 19th, 1999. It opened at $30.50. It finished the first day of its trading at 25, 25. But as we're talking right now, and I can't believe this is real, it's 190. So $190.47 a share. If you're curious, since the TKO merger in September of 2023, it's up over 85%. So TKO knows what they're doing. You want to talk about masterful operators. This is more of that PW Insider is actually reporting the TKO's SEC filings today include the figures about Nick Kahn. And Nick Kahn has sort of become the man. And I don't know if there's a wizard of Oz, it feels like it's Nick Kahn. I mean, he was the dealmaker that created the opportunity for WWE to wind up on Fox with Smackdown and then everything that followed. He's the architect for a lot of this. Drew McIntyre recently referred to him as the billion dollar man on the Bobby Jones podcast, but it comes out. He is going to be the president. He signed a new contract with WWE. He's going to be there through 2030 and his base salary is 2 million bucks through this year. It'll be a base salary of $3 million next year and every year through the rest of the term. Of course, that doesn't count all of his stock options and incentives and all of that. Do you want to talk about a no brainer renewal? Whatever TKO does, you can't let Nick Kahn slip away, right? Oh my God. That guy, what a negotiator he is. I mean, he's unbelievable. I'd love to watch him work. You know, I got to see Vince work. I got to see Kevin work. That was amazing. I'd love to watch Nick Kahn work. I'd love to see him work a room, you know, full of people in there negotiating something. I'd love to see him negotiate. I mean, he's that guy's world class man. They are really fortunate to have him. And this salary of his kudos, I mean, the two of them remain on our side. That's nothing for an executive like that for a company that's in the teens and billions. And now I understand all kinds of incentives, but he's got to hit those incentives. He's got to hit those marks. And if he does, he's worth every penny of it. You know, lately I've been more intentional about what I'm wearing day to day. I'm leaning into pieces that are easy, comfortable, but still feel put together. It just makes getting dressed simpler. Quince has become a go to the fabrics feel elevated. The fits are clean and everything just works without ever needing to really overthink it. Quince has all the wardrobe staples this spring. Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts from just 34 bucks. Lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but you still look put together and clean 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt to believe their pants also hit that same balance, relaxed, but comfortable, but still polished enough to wear pretty much anywhere. Everything is priced like 50 to 80% less than what you find at similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman. You're getting premium materials without the markup. I highly want to recommend that you go check out and I don't know if you've done this already. The 100% merino wool all season short sleeve base layer T. Dude, you can wear that under a sport coat or just buy itself and it looks like a million bucks, but it's like 39 bucks. Go see for yourself. You're absolutely going to love Quince. Refresh your every day with luxury you'll actually use. Head on over to quince.com slash wrestle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada to that's Q. You I n C E.com slash wrestle for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash wrestle revenue for the first quarter this year was $475 million. The net profit for the first quarter this year, the net profit nearly a quarter. Billion dollars, $249.8 million. Of course, that's not all WWE that does lump in UFC, but the point is TKO is on a tear. You know, and that's something that a lot of people are going to be discussing. I think there's a report being done right now about the amount of debt that TKO is carrying. And I know that some of our listeners may not understand that, but I know there's tax advantages. I mean, the reality is you don't pay tax on borrowed money. So there is a tax strategy to leverage some stuff, take some loans. Now you've got cash and yes, you will be paying back a little interest, but boy, it sure does beat the hell out of paying tax on it. But as the report goes and I'll admit, I haven't thumbed through the filings on the new release today. I think they have like a $4 billion debt to service. That's not as scary as it sounds because we don't know all the other mechanics. There are some tax strategies. Can you speak to that? Yeah, there's a lot of tax strategies to it. Vince took the company public in the 90s and it was really, in my opinion, a vanity IPO. I thought it was at the time. You know, you went on Nasdaq first, I believe it was, anyone a year later on the NYC. That's how you get to events. You know, you don't, Vince didn't have any debt. And so there's really not a need to access public markets if you don't have debt or you're not going to bring debt on. And so that was, you know, it was, Vince was doing, I think, more for, I say for vanity reasons. It was for company reasons. You know, he moved to Greenwich for, you know, profile reasons. You know, he had his company located where he had it for profile reasons. He wanted to be on the NYC because of profile reasons. You know, this is no longer the National Guard Armory Rasslet or the Rolard Erby Rasslet. You know, this was New Age entertainment, which is certainly what it become. And then when they had the merger, you know, one reason is they wanted Vince, you know, it was UFC had a lot of debt. I don't know how much that came over, but what you're talking about as far as is all manageable, by the way, you know, Dana White is good Lord. I wouldn't even teach me back right, by the way. You know, I tell you, he plays half a million dollar hands. He doesn't play blackjack anymore. It's a separate, complete issue, but I got, I want to learn back right now because I heard that about him because it's supposed to be so much of a better game. But a lot of the audio debt is managing taxes and how you can handle that. And there's a reason not to pay off that debt. And that's what the position that they're in right now, they got so much cash. They could pay off this debt they wanted to. I think they're choosing not to. And that's probably for tax reasons. Well, I can't wait to see where all of these numbers land because I know that it's going to continue to be a conversation, but it is good for the wrestling business. And I know sometimes people sort of debate and disagree with that. But, you know, if WWE is doing really, really strong business, a lot of the people on the outside of the bubble, you know, they sort of conflate wrestling and WWE almost like their interchangeable terms. The way we refer to a tissue as a Kleenex or a soda as a coat. I think for a lot of people in the mainstream wrestling is WWE. So for WWE to be really, really strong. And it certainly looks like their financials are strong and their media presence is strong. I still feel like that's good for sports entertainment as a whole, whether you're AEW, TNA, New Japan or anyone else. Of course it is. And Conrad, you know, I eat predominantly at sports bars because I like the food and I like to watch television. It's got better on all the games. It is amazing how many promos ESPN has for wrestling and it's all WWE. It's unreal. And so of course it's going to be associated. I mean, WWE is now just associated with wrestling. No offense to AEW or TNA or anybody else. But, you know, we see it all the time like that. That's that's why the association becomes. But it's great for wrestling. We look at it with Netflix with what they're doing with Seth Rollins being involved in so many different broadcasts. We does a great job, by the way, but he's involved because they're also producing and putting WWE on their shows. This is unbelievable presence. In the history of wrestling, I don't think there's ever been a time where the stars of WWE are wrestling or have more different platforms and worldwide stars than they are right now. I totally agree. I was actually talking with Eric Bischoff about that earlier today. Like, you know, there's there's different reports out there who knows what you can ever believe. And there is one negative Nancy out there that says that, oh, WWE must have disappointed ESPN with their numbers and ESPN is not happy with the deal. They gave them. So now they're having to full court press all the coverage by the way, who loses in that deal? I mean, this is a stroke of genius. If you're if you're Nick Khan, like it is a home run to get guaranteed revenue from ESPN and to have your product featured on the ESPN unlimited app. But the added value there is it almost guarantees that ESPN is going to overdose your audience on promoting those events. They want to ensure their success. And the way to do that is to hammer it with promotion. And we all sort of expected a full court press for WrestleMania and we got it. And I did not expect to wake up on a Wednesday morning and see Paul Heyman on ESPN shelling backlash this weekend. We're in the middle of the freaking NBA playoffs right now. And we're talking about backlash this weekend on ESPN. Like that's added value that you almost can't buy, John. You can't buy it. No, you can't. You could. You have enough money. You're on must money. You're on with the right but you not realistically. No, I'm sitting there and watching ESPN or talking about the NBA playoffs and they got Tampa this and Tampa that they all talk about backlash. It's unbelievable how much they are promoting. And Conrad, I cannot tell you we're back in Dallas back in the early 90s. We got in the sports page again. We've been in before wrestling there. It's like this the little line, you know, like black bar lost to JBL. Brett John Hawk lost to black bar. You know, that's always a little bit of line, a little blurb. Guys were so excited about that. Oh, man, it gives us credibility. And it was just a little bitty blurb. Now you have all these great stars on ESPN, you know, Steven Smith, Pat McAfee's, all of your great stuff, you know, commentators, your personalities talking about wrestling and not just talking about wrestling, you know, trying to get some quick notes. They know the product. They know the product. They appear at the shows. It's unbelievable what's going on right now in pop culture with wrestling and with WWE. Yeah, high fives all around. Hey, I do want to ask you about about something that happened this past week. We saw last week on NXT, a big fella debut that we've only seen in the UK. We knew him there as Will Pruse. But now we found out this week on NXT, he's got a new WWE name, Mason Rook. This is the guy who first went viral last year for an incredible move set. And I think a lot of people saw some of these clips of these really innovative in ring maneuvers that he could put together. And for those of you who've kept up with the UK independence scene, he's been tearing it up over there. He was on John Cena's radar. He's continually pushing him on social media. But there are critics who are critical of his physical appearance and say that, hey, this guy doesn't look like a wrestler or whatever. And I think you and I have been wrestling fans since the King Kong Monday day. So I asked, what are we talking about right here? Doesn't look like a wrestler. Have you seen any of Will Pruse and what do you think about Mason Rook and NXT? I think Mason Rook is awesome. And by the way, King Kong Bundy felt about the little guys like I felt about him. And I hit him with trash cans. He dropped elbows on him. So kudos to King Kong Bundy for trying to rid the world of people like Hornspock. I think that's a wonderful humanitarian effort. He should get a Nobel Peace Prize for what he did at WrestleMania. It's those little guys. But let's look at this stuff about the bodies. Look at Dusty Rhodes. Are you kidding me? Look at Dick Murdock. It's a different time. Yeah. But look at guys without traditional bodies. Look at Kevin Owens. Look at Mitt Foley. They got decent bodies. They're not bodybuilders. Get over like a million freaking dollars. Can you get over? That's all that matters. Does a body help you? Absolutely. Be able to walk out with that great Sid Vicious type looking body. Oh my God, of course. Everybody loved to have that. But can you work? If you work, you can get over. I mean, look at Dusty Rhodes. Nobody's ever going to put him in a bodybuilding contest. And that man could fill arenas. There's no doubt about that. Dusty Rhodes knew how to make you feel. He knew how to emotionally connect. And I think on some level, that's going to be the secret sauce of Mason Rook. I feel like to a large part of the audience, he represents their every man. I think that was some of the charm of Dusty Rhodes. If I'm, you know, a fan in the stands in 1983, I may say to myself, self, I don't know that I can look like Nikita Koloff or Hulk Hogan, but Dusty Rhodes, well, he feels like a buddy of mine and he just rolled off a barstool and he's a badass. I hope that that's the same with Mason Rook. And I know that maybe Booker T got a little bit of unfair criticism when he said, hey, I thought that was a fan on commentary. I think that's the point that he looks like, hey, he's one of us and he's in there kicking ass. That makes you want to pull for that guy. It feels relatable, right? People love picking on Booker, don't they? I do. Booker's awesome. He's Booker's a national treasure. He's like Gerald Briscoe. He's a freaking national treasure. I'll stick up for Booker six days a week and twice on Sunday. I think Booker's awesome. I've always had. But yes, look, these guys have it. If you can get over, you can get over. I just saw the Creed Brothers who, by the way, are incredible athletes, different type of look. I just saw them working heel down in Mexico. Good God, man. These guys, wow, those guys, they're fun. They're fun to watch. They got new Galeno down in Mexico, big, big baby face, Dr. Wagner's brother. There's some guys out there and not a terrific body. He's not a bodybuilder. He's just a big dude and can work. If you can work, you can get over. It's that simple. I can't wait to see what's next for Mason Rook. I agree with you on Booker T. I think these guys who give awards like Worst Commentator of the Year, we should eliminate awards like that. First of all, why does an award like that exist? That's just negative and we don't need it in wrestling. But more importantly, I love his enthusiasm. I like that it's a little silly. Like a man who can get right on camera and you know, shucky ducky, quack, quack, sign me up for that. I want it. It's always been fun. I had a dance contest with him at the WrestleMania after party one time. Booker's one of the best guys there is. He's one of the best guys on the whole freaking planet. And him, I want a commentator out there that enjoys what he's seeing. You know, it's like when Michael Jordan was on top of the world. You know, he paid a lot of money to go see him. Michael Jordan was the best in the world, but with his tongue hanging out and flying through the air, you're going, oh God, man, this guy loves what he's doing. People relate to that and it draws you to that. When Booker sitting there going, shucky ducky, quack, quack and all this crazy stuff, he says he's having fun. And when he's having fun, it's infectious. That's what you want from a commentator and all that bullshit about Worst Commentator. They shove that up their ass. No, I agree. I mean, it's weird because the people who are often trying to be, you know, body positive and all inclusive, then they want to tell us who the worst comment is. Like, what are we doing? Like either we're going to be this safe celebratory space or we're not. But Booker T, what I love about him most of all, and I really like this in a character. I've told you before, one of my favorite television wrestlers is Martin Briscoe on AEW because he can do everything from the silly to the serious. And I think Booker T could too. Like Booker T could do super silly when he was doing the King stuff. He made it work. It was awesome when he was whipping people's ass and T and A and doing commentary while he's beating them up. That was awesome. Amazing. But he could also do serious. Like, are you telling me in real life if Booker T got really pissed? He couldn't turn it on like that and everybody shit their pants. Like he has that fear of credibility. And I think that's unique to guys like Booker and I love it in him. I think it is too. You know, you got a booker's a big guy, you know, and it's a big guy. You know, and good looking, you know, body, good looking Frank. Good looking, you know, and he but he's a legit tough dude. But there's a bad ass. But he can all that stuff he does with the comedy. Oh my God, when he was the king and he had Queen Charmale, I mean, Booker was freaking off the chart. He was so freaking good at what he did. That's why I love his commentary because it's just insane. You know, he can call a match. He knows he's had thousands of matches. He knows how to call a match, but he can also just be entertaining. And when you're calling match after match after match, I mean, there are times Conrad, when you're calling a match and you want to stay out of the way, you know, when a match is really good, you know, it's like when they make the calls, you believe in miracles. You know what he did right after that? He laid out for a minute and a half, you know, and let it breathe. You know, there are times when you have something incredible that happens and you want to let you want to let it breathe. You want to let it live on its own and there's art to that. But then there are times Conrad, when you're calling match, some of these matches suck and you're sitting there and you got characters that don't really have any background, characters that don't really have any personality. You're trying to make stuff up for them. That's when you got to be entertaining. And that's when Booker comes up with a shucky duck and quack quack and all the crazy stuff he does. There's a reason for it. You know, sometimes you've got to cover for what you're watching. And I think Booker does a great job at that. And respectfully, where does he do it? He does it on the developmental show for the talent that need the support the most. But a lot of people who don't understand it don't get that, but everybody's not going to go out there in their third match on TV and it'd be a five-star classic. So you need a little help. You need somebody like Booker T to help make those moments special and magical. You know, some of those moments we want to memorialize forever. I know we've all got something like that in our life and we usually think about sharing those moments with mom just in time for Mother's Day. I want you to know about oral frames. Now, a lot of us don't live close to our mom, so we might not be celebrating with mom this weekend. You've got to get mom a Mother's Day gift. And I want you to get her something that she'll never forget. Pop quiz hot shot. Did you get mom for Mother's Day last year? I bet you don't remember. And I bet even worse, she doesn't remember either. I want you to capture the magic of y'all's relationship and celebrate that with great memories with oral frames. It's a fantastic product. 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John, let's talk a little bit about Roman Reigns. Yeah, and kind of before you do, if you don't mind, you brought the Aura Frames. My sister has that. They're actually, they're fantastic. But it also brought up Mother's Day. And I want to bring up something. If I can just be serious for just a minute here. You know, I want to talk to all the rest of the fans out there. You know, a lot of things you don't know about your mama. Your mama was a wrestling fan for them, most likely. And she was a JBL fan. I mean, she wanted to, I mean, let's be basic, you know, and be honest, she wanted to ride the cowboy. And so you've got Mother's Day coming up. Make your mom happy. I mean, she married somebody that she probably didn't want to your dad, but that's okay. She's staying with her. She's staying with him. Get your mama cameo from JBL and what's your turn? Giddy, like a little teenager seeing Elvis again for the first time. Just something you can do for your mama out there. Just something that you can do for something I'm doing for the world. So you're welcome. John, are you saying my mama wants a JBL cameo from Mother's Day? Yeah, I wasn't talking directly about your mama, but yes, your mom would love a cameo from JBL. Yeah, just like a little cameo. You know, like she probably saw me on television and thought, man, that dude is smoking freaking hot. Wow. Oh, man, I can do it. Not your mom, not your mom, but get her, get her a cameo. She'd be very, very happy. In fact, probably giddy is what I would say. Well, hang on John, like you've met my mama and if I want you to send a message to my mom, I got to go to cameo and order a cameo for my mama. It would just be easier that way. That way you can have that way she can have it on file and that way she can play it over and over and over. Like, you know, in times when, you know, she's like, yeah, I do. I really want to go out and do your artwork or I'll watch television. Or do I want to watch my cameo from JBL, that heart drop for the 1,038 time? Why is she watching it so many times, John? And why is she watching it over and over? Because it's going to be very entertaining. I mean, it's going to be really entertaining. I'm really good at doing these cameo stuff. I've got like 100% like five-star reviews, you know, like my Melzer matches. I had all my whole career. In fact, that's all I had. I had a few like I had one 11-star match. Yeah, I know you were telling me the other day that you thought the star ratings for Melzer were cumulative. So if you kept getting quarter stars, eventually you'd build up enough and you would actually have the five stars like you're trying to collect them all. Yeah, I had like 40 matches and you added up all the stars that Melzer gave me. I had like 38 and a third stars. There you go. That actually may be a new piece of merch. JBL, the first ever 38 and a third star. 38 and a third star. That's right from Melzer. That's right. So cameo.com and then just search for John Layfield. Is that how you do it? John Layfield on there and just ordered a cameo for your mom. She'll be so happy. She'll be the happiest you've ever seen her. You record these in private or as your wife in the room when you're recording this? No, I record them down here in my basement. My cat, baby Briscoe, whose name is Briscoe, he helps me. So he holds the camera. Yeah, you know, he holds the camera. Yeah, I think we should move on. Hey, let's talk a little bit about Roman Reigns. I don't know if you saw, but he was advertised on some international shows in June. And now he's not. Now this has led to a bunch of speculation. Oh, is he one of the guys getting a pay cut? I doubt it. Perhaps it's the idea that he usually flies private and flying back and forth to Europe over and over again will make a P and L turn red in a hurry. So maybe that's it. I don't know for sure, but there is no denying it's added some speculation and some stakes and some heightened interest in his title match with Jacob Pai II tomorrow. I know you have no inside knowledge. We don't know what's going to happen. If you were a betting man, would you bet that we have a new WWE champion come Sunday morning or will Roman retain? I think we're not. In fact, I got to meet the first time I met Jacob. I was so happy. I was so surprised that what a freaking worker that guy is, man. I'm a big fan of Jacob. I've said that forever. I was just such a big fan. He has got to meet him at the world there with fanatics and stuff, you know, sitting there with the Rikishi and Jacob came up and said, how's really happy to meet him? I don't think so. I mean, I think Roman's the guy. You know, they've gone to such extremes. The stuff he's done getting up the WrestleMania to get here. Now, if there is an issue, which I have no idea if there is or not, then yeah, they're going to switch the title. And then we know there is an issue, but I don't think there is, but we will certainly find out Sunday. I don't think they're going to switch it unless there's an issue. I think Jacob Pai II is going to be champion one day. I just don't think it's this day, but I don't think they're going to switch it unless there's an issue. I can't wait to see what they do this weekend. It's probably a match I've looked forward to more than any other in quite a while. I mean, the idea that Jacob Pai II is wrestling Roman Reigns feels make believe just a few years ago, maybe at the peak bloodline. I was doing a podcast Kevin Sullivan and we would talk about Jacob Pai II every single week and it was almost a daydream that he would ever have this opportunity. Well, dreams come true this Saturday tomorrow on pay per view. Of course, you can watch on Netflix throughout the rest of the world, but here in America, North America, at least you can check it out on ESPN on the ESPN unlimited app. You're going to get a couple of free matches, including Bron Breaker and Seth Rollins on ESPN two. And then you get three matches on the PLE ESPN unlimited. And they started the shows earlier, John. What do you think of that? Like, once upon a time, it felt like it was always eight Eastern seven central. Now it's like six Eastern seven central. Now it's like six Eastern five central. We're getting our wrestling done a lot earlier. Like by eight o'clock, we're done here in the central time zone. What do you make of this earlier start time? I think it's a great idea. I thought it was a great idea. You know, a couple of times back in the day, we had tried something like that. I always thought we should go earlier with these times. I always thought it was too late. You know, kids, even though it's Saturday, most of these pay per views, you know, you don't want to have these things are Sunday. You don't want to have these things too late. You know, for kids, it's only it's a great idea. And by the way, you better call the Tampa Bay Sheriff because these boys are going to steal the show. I have a feeling that Roman is going to work his ass off. I guess that's his cousin, Jacob. Is this cousin, right? Yeah, they're related. Yes, sir. So I think he's going to work his ass off with Jacob. I do as Roman does with everybody thought his master CM punk. He worked his ass off. Never fantastic. But I think they're going to steal the freaking show. I remember I think it was Santa Tony. I said this before when the Umaga and Cena had that match and I wouldn't do the commentary. I remember just taking off the headsets. I was sitting out there inside the bowl with, I guess, Michael Cole, I guess, and a J.R.E. King or Colin. I remember watching it going, God, that's why I love wrestling. It was that it was that freaking good. And Jacob reminds me of Umaga. I think he's maybe a little better athlete. But man, I think this is going to be one hell of a match. I don't know if they'll get 38 to 30 stars, but it's going to be a good match. There's no doubt it's going to be a great match. The match you were referencing, I believe, was last man standing Umaga, John Cena, Royal Rumble 2007. Go check it out. I'm sure it's online somewhere. Speaking of online somewhere, I don't know that you saw this, but as we're recording yesterday, it was Tuesday. WWE uploaded what they called a Hulk Hogan mixtape. It was like four hours. But there was a lot of behind the scenes, including the now infamous black and white three man band of Scott Hall, Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan when they were first creating the NWL right after the turn. Call it late July, early August of 1996. And you could literally see Hulk Hogan developing that Hollywood Hogan character in front of you. He would start sentences and not finish them and say, all right, that didn't go anywhere. Let me start again. It was an unbelievable look at how the sausage is made and developing. What I think is one of the greatest bad guy characters of all time. And I want to recommend that everybody go check it out. Of course, if we could show you clips here, we would. But look for that WWE vault mixtape on Hulk Hogan. I bring this up though, because it proves that even when you're Hulk Hogan and you've drawn all that money through Hulkamania and the golden era of WrestleMania and rock and wrestling and everything that followed. It still takes some reps drew McIntyre did a podcast earlier this week with Bobby Bones and they talked about house shows and he broke out some some some facts in his opinion. And I want your opinion. See if you agree or disagree. He said these days I wrestle one match every couple of months. They finally eliminated most of the non televised shows. One, the talent was just getting hurt all the time and going out of the biz quicker and two from a profit standpoint. It just didn't make sense. House shows never made sense to me profit wise. So now the money's in the TV deals and all the other massive deals that the billion dollar man Nick Conn is constantly making. So because I'm wrestling once every two months, every three months, I do feel like I've been in a car crash after the matches and I trained for each match now. Like I assume a boxer would train for a fight. UFC fighter would train for a fight. I train for each pro wrestling match. Boy, that isn't about face from the way the business used to happen. It is the reality of today. But there are promoters out there like Jeff Jarrett and Scott DeMore and others who feel like house show business is necessity. You know, you need these reps in order to become a polished in ring performer to try things to have the ability to fail and not be in front of a global audience and a part of the permanent record. But this does feel like a corporate business decision. You're going to run a P and L and hey, they're not as profitable. Okay, let's maximize profit. Where do you stand? You know, the Jeffs and the Scott DeMores of the world say, I don't know if this is good for wrestling, but I understand it's good for business. You see it both ways. I'm sure where do you land, John? Yeah, you know, back in the day, we used to run a lot of cities with that, but to benefit our television products, you know, so we would run a lot of places and need to promote a local TV station. You know, we'd run some small towns, different places. We were running a lot of shows, but we'd run something and we'd ask why it's because they had a new TV deal or something because you had all kinds of different deals around the country and around the world. We go and support, you know, when we were had a good TV in Germany, we did great Germany, same with Italy or the UK, bad TV deals. We didn't draw any, you know, hardly anything. It was all dependent on, a lot of it was dependent on television. That was one reason why we ran some of the towns in certain markets. You know, the other reason was, you know, we made money off these things. It's different now. These guys are making so much money now, you know, and now they're, they're, they're some of these live events. I've seen, I've heard some of the numbers and they're incredible. I mean, they're, they're absolutely incredible. The business has changed. Now you got to have great producers because great producers are now becoming so important. We didn't have to have producers because we had, we were having matches every single night. So Lanzel would come to you, what do you want, Jack? Get him over, slip on a banana peel, whatever it is. That's all you know. How long do you need? 14 minutes, whatever it is. You know, that's all you'd say. Now producers, that's why guys like Finley and guys like Jamie Noble, guys like Adam Pierce, guys that they have all in all their different companies and iterations of their companies are so important because these guys are not doing house shows. You know, we were up in, it was Edmonton or Calgary and that's when Scotty Thu-Hotty did the worm for the first time. We had no idea what he's doing. The place went nuts. He was just doing some crazy thing. All of a sudden he ended up with something that he's made a living off of for the last 30 years. But if he hadn't had a house show to try that, he would have never done it. So he tried something. He tried stuff in house shows all the time. I used to always do different promos every single night in the house shows because with the live mic and cut the promo, I wanted to see what worked and what didn't. I would have different matches every single night because I wanted to see what worked and what didn't. You don't have that opportunity now. And so it's hard on these guys. And that's why producers have gotten so important. Let's talk a little bit about WrestleMania. You know, there's a lot of discussion about where WrestleMania 2028 is going to be. Next year, WrestleMania is in Saudi Arabia. That's been a source of some criticism for sure. But I'm sure the bag has been guaranteed. Nikon was at the helm negotiating that one. So I'm sure it'll be the most successful WrestleMania of all time. But where is 2028 going to be even during the town hall? We saw Nikon tease. Wait until you see what we're doing in 2028. There's a report from Brian Alvarez and Brandon Thurston has confirmed it that Nashville is throwing their hat in the ring. Allegedly offering $3.5 million as a site fee. I'm sure there's tax advantages as well. But the way Nick teased, wait until you see, it makes me think that there's going to be something different. So about a week ago, John, I jumped on social media and I said, hey, I have zero information, but maybe a light bulb moment realization. What's better than one site fee for WrestleMania? Two, what if perhaps they did an international WrestleMania thinking like a London and a Nashville WrestleMania, not on separate weekends on the exact same weekend. You could take over all of European television and all of American television. You could get paid boo-coos of money. I'm sure the municipalities would want some sort of exclusivity. If I was Nashville, I wouldn't want to know that they're going to run one night here and another in Cleveland. But if there's one night here and one across the pond, so to speak, I could see that. We know Nashville is going to be installing or finished by that point. They're brand new stadium. I'm sure it's going to be state of the art billions of dollars. But we know that London has always been a mega market for wrestling. That's been proven time and time again. I'm not saying necessarily London, but somewhere international. And I do think that the roster is large enough where you could give enough that fans don't feel cheated. But I also know that it would create some opportunities for the things that people maybe are frustrated about right now. I don't know. It feels like it could be a no brainer to try it again. And when I suggested this on Twitter last week, I got some Boo Birds and critics who said, oh, it works so well for WrestleMania too. Comparing the way the world is in 1986 with 2026 is a little silly. It's not even close to the same thing. But I do want to ask, what do you think? Will we see a WrestleMania that exists on two continents over the same weekend? Is that possible? Yeah, it's possible. Now, are you suggesting there was a simulcast of the same shows at the same time in different continents like WrestleMania 2? Are you suggesting it's going to be on different nights? Well, it's already on different nights. So, you know, it became a it was it was born out of the two night WrestleMania was born accidentally with the pandemic. You know, we were all shut in and so it became all right, but we'll just do two nights. And so from that, now it's become a tradition. Hey, why would we have one great gate if we can have two great gates? Well, you could still have two great gates and you wouldn't have like I can be honest. If I was a family on a budget and I was taking kids to WrestleMania, I might say, hey kids, we're not going to both nights of WrestleMania. So pick which night you want to go to. I wouldn't necessarily be faced with that option of, oh, I picked the wrong show and the kid really wanted to go to that one or whatever it may be. We're not going to freakin England. We're going to Nashville. So we're going to go to the Nashville WrestleMania. So I feel like if you could do like a Saturday afternoon London show, that would be Saturday afternoon our time, but it could be Saturday evening in London. And then the next day we could do our Sunday Nashville WrestleMania, but that would give me a real opportunity to space out things like the Hall of Fame and then XT Super Show, all your other supporting shows that happen. You could have a world display, you know, for the world to enjoy in Europe and you could have one here in America. Maybe I'm wrong and overthinking this, but it does feel like you wouldn't cannibalize and force your audience. Hey, do you pick this show or that show? Why not have two sellouts? Because I think that's been a problem this past year is which night do we pick if we can't do both? And I think you could super serve an American audience and a European audience. What do you think? Yeah, I agree with you. And I thought all along when they announced Saudi Arabia that they could possibly have two type of WrestleMania events. You know, I didn't think maybe back to back nights. I think that works. But I think you may call it something different. You have a big show in the United States, a big show in Saudi or whatever it is, you know, because the American audience and people who travel to America. Which includes the Europeans that might not travel Saudi Arabia. It's a long way. Not talking about anything about politically about Saudi Arabia. It's just a long way from there. They're used to coming to the United States, you know, would want to come here for that. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think it makes a lot of sense to do something in a city that wherever that is. And if you're running at two different nights and you're not using any talent between the two, you don't have to fly on back and forth. I mean, obviously you're going to have guys like Triple H and Bruce and Nick Khan and these guys are going to probably be on the same page. They're going to be on the charter flight and fly all night to get to the other the other event of the second night to run it. But I think it makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of, you know, it's not going to be dependent on being in the UK if these talent is not interchangeable. So you can run something. I mean, you know, you can run Moon by you can run Sydney. You can run Tokyo. You can run so many different places. You can run somewhere down in Rio. You can run the South America. I mean, I think and you can make it a really cool event. Make the fan fest, you know, wherever the WrestleMania is, you have two different fan fest. Yes. Two different everything. I mean, and now it's not a matter of you're splitting the revenue because you're in two different places. You're potentially doubling the revenue because you're in two different places. And not to betray any confidences. I don't even think they have to worry about chartering management back and forth. You and I both know that there's been times where Hunter was out and Bruce ran the show and vice versa. So I think it's a lot because you have both guys who are capable of covering for the other one in that gorilla position. I think it's possible. We'll see what happens. But here's what we know. They're going to report record revenues and we're going to have fun watching it. A little more fun watching it with my friends from mood. I don't know if you're in the loop on this, John, but souls new mood gummies are a home run. Specifically, I want to brag about the out of office THC gummies. It's been an absolute game changer in my household. 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Right now, soul is offering our listeners 30% off your entire order. Go right now to get soul.com and use the code wrestle. That's get soul.com with the promo code wrestle and you'll get 30% off. Hey, speaking of having fun at Dave and Buster's, we're about to debut a pretty fantastic episode of Curtain Jerkers. And I want to give everybody a heads up that we're going to be traveling. We're on the road this weekend to the suburbs of St. Louis. We're going to S I C W Fan Fest for this is all happening as a part of the wrestling at the Chase Memorial. It's the Bruiser Brody fourth Memorial. The who's who of wrestling legends are going to be here. The powers of pain warlord and barbarian are going to be here. Bobby Fulton's here. Carlitos here. Haku's here. Dan Severance here. Mickey James, the rock and roll express, Carrie Morton, Jack Dome. How about the bagwells going to be in the house? So Dilo, Doink, Paul Ellering, Haku and man, I can't wait. Somehow, some way, Mick Foley, JBL and the Brooklyn brawler. You want to talk about a Mount Rushmore? Everybody who's seen pro wrestling, here they are. These are the lot. The legends we grew up with. You've got all their action figures. Now you can come out and get your autographs. You can get your pictures and you're going to see our man Dylan roaming around with a camera. We're going to be on location filming some Curtain Jerkers and we're looking for fans to have some fun. So if they see you or if they say Dylan with a camera, they need to come say hello. Dylan, absolutely. Come say hello. Come say hello and tell us what you like about the show. I've got so many people coming up. I was out in Vegas telling me the Bradshaw 316. So I really appreciate all that. Thank you guys for coming out. Demolition is going to be there. It's going to be a lot of fun. Herb Simmons runs that heck of a show. A little wrestling show on Saturday night. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's happening at the Radisson Hotel and Convention Center in Fairview Heights. You can get your tickets right now at s-i-c-w dot o-r-g. That's Southern Illinois Championship Wrestling. S-i-c-w dot o-r-g. It's happening this weekend. That's tomorrow. Actually, I'm sorry. That's today as you're listening and tomorrow. You don't want to miss the fan fest. You don't want to miss the wrestling show. You don't want to miss Mick Foley's one man show tonight right here in Fairview Heights, Illinois. Tickets on sale now at s-i-c-w dot o-r-g. John, you guys recorded something with a very special guest for Curtain Jerkers and somewhere along the way. You went to a David Buster's and this might actually be the most fun episode of Curtain Jerkers so far. I can't wait for fans to check it out. Take a look and stay tuned. John and Cassio coming right back. So here's the deal. We're at David Buster's. We're going to play some games. I didn't bring my wallet and I know you never have yours so we're going to find one of the fans. Hopefully that will play for our tokens. We're going to mooch on somebody's wallet. Yeah, yeah. If they want to pitch or they have to give you tokens, play. We play for tokens. We play for tokens. Cassio can play for tokens. Alright, we'll be right back as we're dominating all the games. We're going to find somebody dumb enough to give us tokens. Sir, do you have ten dollars? Alright, token. You know what I'm always doing. We're robbing. Sonic! I'm going to drop kick Sonic so all of his coins fall out. Wait right here. I'm about to poop his blue ass. I got a card. It's Cassio, JBL, Jimmy Wayne Yang. Finding out who's the true Ski Ball guy. Ten thousand! Oh yeah! Jimmy! Jimmy's not doing good. He's trying to... He's trying to block! I'm out! Here we go! Let's see who won! You're seeing the fastest biggest game here, right? Biggest biggest game! It's good with balls. We should have known it was Gell-O-Balls. Wayne Yang, six seven. That's a new thing, Wayne Yang. I'm glad to hear how good you guys are with balls. How do you feel you were last... We thought you were the Ski Ball guy. And you were last. I didn't realize you guys were good at handling balls. We're basketball guys. Are you the basketball guy? Yeah, he's the only guy. Let's go! Ladies and gentlemen, our video game partner from today... Welcome in. How would you enjoy him? You know him, you're friends with him. He is what happens if Michael Hayes and Mr. Fuji has a son. He is... Jimmy Wayne Yang! Yeah! Call me... My man! Thank you, thank you. Oh, no, yeah. Very long hug. How we doing, man? I'm good. I'm good. I'm good at jirking the curtain. I thought you all talked about watches and murderers. I thought we were talking about jirking. Jirking what? Jimmy's... Wayne's... Or Yang's. You know, I was named after three penises. Is Jimmy named for a penis? I've had a lot of conversations with humans in my life. None of them went, hey, you might know me. I've been named after three penises. Yeah. You're Jimmy. Jimmy. You're Wayne. Wayne and Yang. And you're Yang. Yep. And we're all curtain jirkers. We're supposed to talk about jirking... Jirking, man. Jirking curtains! Jimmy Wayne Yang, three penises, man. Yes. How are you, man? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? How do you two guys know each other? I'm what's called a commentator. I heard you did that a couple of times. Yeah, a couple of times. You're the greatest commentator of all time. Yes! Yes. Wow, man. The reason why Jimmy Wayne Yang got over is because of JBL. Yeah! And in wrestling and WWE, sometimes, you know, I told him backstage, it's like sometimes you're wrestling for an audience of one. You guys know who that is? JBL. No, Vince McMahon. Or Kevin Dunn. And I think they booked me so much because they wanted to hear what JBL would say about me. And all I did was set the table. Now, Jimmy delivered like you have to do, and that's up to his talent. But I sent the table for him, he delivered. And he never offended me. I know a lot of Asian people. I do know Asian people, and they were offended about us. I know exactly... I've offended a lot of people over here. Yeah, I know exactly what he's doing, and he's just trying to get me over. And even, you know, he would say, hey, if Michael Hayes and Mr. Fuji sang each other and they had a baby, it would be Jimmy Wayne Yang, you know? But then when I would hit the moonsault, he was like, oh, that's like great Lou Geinus coming off the high dive. I haven't seen a backflip since the Olympics. And then he put me over like a million bucks and like I owe John so much. Like I really credit Jimmy Wayne Yang's character from JBL. We had a lot of fun. John, what are you... Before that, you know, like, but... Bradshaw hit me the hardest I've ever been hitting wrestling in my life. It's football, basketball, any kind of sport I've ever done. Like harder than Kawada, Tenru, Hanson. Like he hit me so hard that I had to become an Asian Redneck. So... Where was that at? When was that at? I got knocked out, so I don't remember it. John, do you remember since you were the perpetrator? I do. We don't have a video of that, do we? Do we have a video of that? Are you okay with us showing this footage? You're the one that got knocked down. Yeah, let's do it. Do y'all want to see the footage? Do you want to see somebody get knocked out? The hardest he's ever been hit in wrestling? Let's show that beautiful being footage. I don't know what a boot to the face. Brackshaw hit him in the back. He got a body. Brackshaw got a hit in the Rumble match. Holy cow. Here is your winner, Brackshaw. Bradshaw joins 14 other superstars for SmackDown. The team from Raw in the Rumble match Sunday in Philadelphia. Take another look. Brackshaw, he's a lucky catcher. Brackshaw, he always didn't look at this. A pitch up. A thousand one-thin, another shot at it. Close life from Haluna. Good night. That didn't look fun. I never said this, but you hurt my arm. You hurt my wing. You hurt your hand, Jimmy. How did you have any yang left in your wing after that? That killed a yang dynasty of China. Yang dynasty? 800. Was that y'all's first match together? Or y'all done some stuff before that? I think it was. I know you don't remember anything, but... No, I do remember it because it was the first time I was wrestling somebody that's like a main eventer. Oh, really? Okay. I had a partner, Ryan Secota, wrestling piece. He was a great guy. And I think, again, I think Vince was our... They were messing with John. I was like, oh, we're gonna put these two speedy wrestlers in the ring with you. And they told me, he's like... They told us to blow you up. Wait, wait. So they said, when you get in there, blow Bradshaw. I said, don't hold back. He's gonna hit you hard, so do not be scared of him. And I want you guys to run him like... Did you know that, John? I did not know that. It's the first time I've heard that. It's hard to blow you up when you don't run. Yeah. But if you see the five minutes before the finish... Yeah, we're going wild. He just asked. I was like, yeah, well, I deserve that receipt for a time. Yeah, so it makes more sense now than the finish. Yeah. One time they told me and Ron, we want to get Mark Henry in shape because we want to use him. So they did this sometimes. I didn't know it was done to me, but it was done. They told me and Ron, get Mark Henry in shape. So we had it when it was a spot show. I think we're now in the curriculum. I think we were. Mark and Dilo, keep just keep Mark in the ring. Just doing drop downs and stuff and making him work. So I get him outside of the ring and I go to run his head in the stairs. I don't know that he's never not taking this. But he's blown up and he's never taken it. So Mark just runs his head into the stairs. Just literally just running. He's just going off and bust himself open. And he goes down and he's bleeding and he's blown up. So I climb in the ring and Ron goes, what happened to Mark? And I said, I think he's dead. He goes, better get Dilo in. Busting Company. An unbelievable in ring action. From wild characters to unforgettable rivalries. Don't miss a single moment. Tune in every Thursday night at 7pm on YouTube. JCW Lunacy. He thinks he's the axe god. We'll see how it is. High score of all time, 375. Here we go. Right here. Woo! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Woo! Yeah! Yes sir! We own this place. Wow! Got it! Yeah! Oh yeah! I got a great watch shark. Look at this. I got a great watch shark. Yeah! Woo! Thank God, ladies and gentlemen! Yes! Come on, Casio, get over there. Come on. Oh yeah! Yeah! Oh yeah! Here we go, Jimmy. Oh shit! Get away, get away, get away! Here we go. Oh yeah, buddy! Oh yeah! Bam! Ready? Now we're at 620. Woo! It was rigged. Double the weight. They were faster because there was two of them. Jimmy Wayne Yang right in the pit. It really hurt me. What do you remember about this guy, John? When he's first coming up? He's entertaining as can be. I had a lot of fun on commentary with Booker T. Booker T is very entertaining, just like Jimmy Wayne Yang. So it's fun when you have guys like that. You make stuff up and you just have fun talking about them. And they're going to deliver. They're going to deliver. So no matter what you say, they're going to exceed all expectations. You just got to set the table for them. That's all it was with Jimmy Wayne Yang. I want to tell you a story. I don't think he remembers this. But he asked me one week when I was a kid. Before Jimmy Wayne Yang, he asked me hey, I'm thinking about putting you in the cabinet. What can you do? What do you mean putting him in the cabinet? I was looking for cabinet members. Orlando Jordan. Oh yeah! Wrestling God. Do you remember? Oh yes! And then I could, like this is the first time we ever talked. But like, you know, I was like, oh man, this is awesome. I said, I want you to come up with an idea. And I was like, I have no idea. I'm a little fit in the cabinet. Maybe I could be your international affairs guy. Yeah, I just wanted a fun cabinet full of good workers. Yeah. And so I was putting the cabinet together. And so I was looking for it and I thought Jimmy would be perfect. Yeah, so that was awesome. That's the first memory that I have of John. Like, he came to me and asked me if I wanted to be part of this main event group. And like, I love wrestling. You know, I love this and getting an opportunity. I was like, oh my God, this is so awesome. And then he picked Orlando Jordan over me. I didn't pick Orlando, but I did. They didn't ask me if Orlando was okay, which I fully agreed with. And Orlando was a really good worker. Yeah, he was good. Well, let me ask you a question. Because you've been a lot of places, like a lot of us have. Now, you have not been to the moon, right? I don't think nobody's been to the moon. So I guess we're going to talk about it. Like Cassidy, okay, this guy agrees with me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No Cassidy, Conrad, everybody's from Huntsville, Alabama. Yeah. Huntsville, right here. Yes. But you're from Texas where a lot of space stuff goes in. There's massive down in Houston. Large space content. Yeah, FK and stuff like that. Michael Hayes talked Glenn Armstrong how to moonwalk. Wait, what? True story. Yeah, Armstrong, first guy on the moon. He learned how to moonwalk by Michael Hayes. True story. What do you mean? He learned how to moonwalk. I just told you. Yeah, but he just bounced. And what Michael Jackson, he just... I didn't say Michael Jackson, I said Michael Hayes. Free bird. He learned how to moonwalk from Michael Hayes. And Michael Jackson called in the free birds and how are we going to moonwalk. And Michael Hayes goes, I'll show you. Now it's on you. That's what Michael said. Buddy Roberts was there. But you know what I mean? I want to ask is JBL is the smartest wrestler I've ever met in my life. He really knows history and he's really, really smart. So I'm not as smart. So when I need smart person questions like, hey, John, please explain to me this in like redneck terms when I understand it. Like, it's my relationship with him. And I ask him about political stuff and stuff like that. But like, I love history and you guys from Huntsville. So he's from Huntsville. He believes the moon landing was not real. That's false. We have a large contingent there. We have the Vaughn Brown center. Vaughn Brown center. First TNA pay review. Who knows the flying Elvis's? Anybody know the flying Elvis's? Conrad like Sonny Stocky. He didn't like this. I was his favorite Elvis. So Jimmy, you believe the moon landing was BS? Yes. They made it up. What? In a Hollywood studio. Yes. Because like, that's the thing. We're 2026, right? I live an hour and a half away. I have this new iPhone. Like, I have dropped calls from an hour and a half away. But they videoed this and it was like no drop calls and like, perfect footage. So you think it was shot in a Hollywood studio? In 1957. Why wasn't it shot? Why did they do this and perpetrate this fraud? I think because it's the space races, right? Do you know the space races? You know like Russia, like the United States and stuff like that. Yeah, we beat their ass. Really? Maybe. Maybe. According to Jimmy. Maybe. And JBL. So he knows, he's so smart. I'm telling you, he knows this stuff. I'm telling you, in the NASA program. Okay, so you can read like, like, Don't do this right now. You know how this, these work in 2026, right? 1957. And how far is the moon from here? You know that? It's a long way. It's like 10 miles. Yeah, it's past. Space miles. Yeah, it's past Charlotte from here. And you're like, how? Right? Am I the only one that doesn't believe? No, there's some, no, there's a lot of people that... You believe? I was not ready for this. Who believes that we actually landed on the moon? Why? Why, why? Give me some answers. Why? Because there's footage. Now, why would the government perpetrate this fraud? Yeah. Yeah. Just to beat the Russians to get more money to spend? Yeah. Is that the reason? I think so. Okay. No, there's not a right or wrong answer. It's your point of view. No, but you gotta smart me up with this because I think everything's a work because of wrestling. I think the moon landing was probably real. I don't know if Michael Hayes actually taught Armstrong how to moonwalk. I do think Buddy Roberts was there. I'd really do. Nobody remembers. Bam, bam, bam was so funny. Bam, bam, bam and buzz were tight. So I think the free birds were involved in it. But I'm not 100% sure about that. But I think the moon landing was probably real. Yeah. But you're not... This is gonna turn into a whole thing. It is a whole thing, but like, come on. Just think about nowadays compared to 19... You know what we need? We need to get a moon landing expert on our show and bring him on here and talk to him about it. I'm gonna look directly into the camera right now. If you're watching this and you landed on the moon, please get in touch with him. We would love to have you right here and debate the one and only expert, Jimmy Whitehead. Wait a minute. If somebody landed on the moon, how do you know they're not lying? They don't get your passport stamped. There's only like seven or eight of them, right? If they did. I'll say they did. I got another question. For the believers, all that kind of stuff, like, why haven't they been back? Yes. We were wrong. There's no reason why. You know what? Why hadn't you been back? I've never been. I don't think we can make it there. You know what? In fairness, I've been to Biloxi and I ain't going back. I don't give a shit. It's there. It really is there. After this, you're not coming back to Huntsville. I'll tell you that. Well, look, first of all, we want to thank you for coming on the show. And second of all, John, I think you'll agree with me. This is the first proper guess we've had that I think didn't mention any kind of masturbation or flogging their mule or... No, I did earlier to forget it. Yeah, he mentioned the three penis name, though. Oh, he did three penises? All right. We've still got a horrible streak going here. We do. And there we have it, folks. Another episode of Curtin' Druggers with the Cassette Kid and Jimmy Wayne Yang. Yee-haw! What's your favorite JBL moment? J... Oh! APA All-day. I'm going to say when he shot Big Show with the dart gun. Was that Curt Angler? No, I thought it was JBL, wasn't it? Pretty sure it was. Yeah, that was Angler. But I will say, I did love it when he was entertaining that he got shot in the dart. That's all I was thinking of. Because remember, he had that whole Godzilla playable weapon. JBL, man. Yes! Let's go with that one. Wait. Oh! Ha-ha-ha! Ha-ha-ha! Ha-ha-ha! Yeah, buddy! I'd like to shoot. I'd like to shoot Jimmy Wayne Yang. Right now. Jimmy! It's Godzilla, but do the international copyright. It's not Godzilla. I need to run like it's Godzilla. Godzilla! Shit! Ah! It's upside down. Feel it! Ah, bitch! Oh, yeah, come on, Jimmy. Oh, yeah! Ah, yes! Oh, yeah! Bam! Bam! Bam! Run to death! Oh, yeah! Looks like that, you bitch! Yeah! Ha-ha-ha! Yeah, buddy! Shoot him! God, shoot him! I got him! I got him! I got him! Oh, oh, shit! Ah! Oh, boy! Here we go! Here we go! Ha-ha-ha! Yeah, buddy! Bam! Bam! Yeah! Oh, no! Oh, no! Oh, get him! Jimmy, shoot him! Jimmy, shoot him! Kill him! Jimmy, shoot him! Right here! We got him! We got him! Godzilla's dead! Who's this? Oh, yeah! Did we? Is he dead? No! No! No! I'm not Jimmy! I'm not Jimmy! I'm not Jimmy! I'm not wonder! Jimmy ran! He said we didn't have the copyright for him! That lizard! He said that was his people, so he was there! Did we win? You did? We killed Godzilla. Hey, if you put these on him, it makes everybody look naked! Hell, oh, yeah! I better take them off. There it was! JBL, another edition of Curtin Jerkers is in the books, buddy, and that. I mean, we did not foresee any of that. We knew Jimmy Wang Yang was going to be fun. We didn't know it was going to be absolutely off the rails. Yep, and I beat Godzilla. JBL stands for just beat a lizard. You beat him virtually now. You damn right. I have whipped Godzilla's ass in many different arenas. I beat him in his hometown of Tokyo under the influence. What do you think a bigger W is for a career? Godzilla or the gingerbread man? Gingerbread man. Ooh, ooh, good call! Oh, wow! One's a lizard and one is like an order. Yeah. How about I tell you, judging by how my shirt was hanging on for dear life in that episode, y'all can tell I've whipped a few gingerbread man in my day, okay? It was a nice shirt. I just didn't know who blew it up for you. Well, after watching it, I'm going to walk out to the backyard and burn it. I destroyed it. You all first, Archie. Yeah, I put it through torture and went through some hell. It needs to retire after that. Those threads are tough. I mean, tough. Shout out to Columbia. Those buttons were strong. They held the episode together. We had a blast with Jimmy Wang Yang. First of all, how about those graphics? We were in the ring. We had a jumbo drawing behind us, showing footage of that time he hurt your arm when you clotheslined him. Yeah, he hurt my arm bad when I clotheslined him. He works pretty snug. And then the kicker of all kickers, he announced the moon landing was fake. He just dropped it right on us. Once he started talking to us about it, it made perfect sense. I think he's right. Don't do this. Right after we've had Artemis, we've shot ourselves around the moon and came back. You can't do this, John. You're not by that, are you? John, I live in the Rocket City. I live in the Rocket City. There's something going on here. We're making those ships here in the city I'm living in. I cannot tell you that the moon landing was fake. The realest thing we've got going right now. Michael Hayes taught Neil Armstrong how to moonwalk. He did. Why are you sticking up for the moon landing so vociferously? You tell me to bring up the moon landing, you're like, that's not fake. That does protest a little too much. We have NASA here in literally about two miles from my backyard. It's a base where they're making space parts. If I mention something wrong, my doorbell just rang, which means the suits could be here right now. You're in Alabama. Hmm. Well, I know. It's not Oklahoma. Oklahoma not only hadn't been in the moon, they hadn't been in the 20th century yet. We've got we have seriously, we have rockets here. We have rocket scientists here. I can't tell you enough how much I believe in the moon landing. Hey, wasn't there a deleted scene in that Michael movie with Hayes teaching Michael Jackson how to moonwalk too? Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. I think I saw that voc around YouTube. Yes. Bill Bigsby was one of the first moonwalkers. He got it from Michael. Michael's the one that was there. Bill Bigsby. That was an SNL sketch, wasn't it? I'm Bill Bigsby. Well, that's no Traxie. I'm Bill Bratsky. Who's Bill Bigsby? I don't know. He's some guy. I looked it up one time. He's like the first guy they claimed to moonwalk and turned out Michael Hayes taught him. Michael Hayes has taught a lot of people a lot of things. Yes, he has. Yeah. That's the easy way to put that. We dropped them off one time. Me and Dutch Mantell and Michael knocked on the window and I knew what he was going to do. And I acted like I dropped the keys because I was driving and Dutch was on the passenger side. Dutch first had rolled down the window. But with the window down, that's when I dropped the keys. So I can't put them back in and roll the window up. Michael just starts peeing on Dutch in the car. Oh. What was that to teach him? I don't think it was to teach him anything. I just think of maybe some of the things that he did. I don't think it was to teach him anything. I just think of maybe we had all been over-served. He's such a great teacher. I don't know if that was a lesson. And what Dutch said was, Oh, God damn. Oh, God damn. That's what Dutch said. No. Silver in the chat said Bill Bixby is the guy who played Hulk on TV. I don't see it. It's Silver's birthday and he's like full of himself right now. I mean, he's just like overconfident. Like, oh, that's Bill Bixby. No, it's not. Well, Silver's birthday, he's had to work longer than the guys that were on Artemis. They were gone for 13 days. He's been doing, he's been working for 13 days straight. I feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for him too. It's all you. Well, you have 72 shows now. I do. Yeah. And Silver told me that he's the new super porgy. What he told me. I don't know. I don't know. What he told me. I think my dad had that. I was supposed to watch. I went to San Antonio and not only did Silver not answer my call, I got to the airport, the fucking airport caught on fire. What do you mean? I don't know why it caught on fire. It caught on fire because there was like, I don't know. It caught on fire. So I'm standing out on the tarmac because the air, the airport's on fire at San Antonio. It all happened because I went to see Silver. And he, and he big time. He big time me and then the airport caught on fire. I think you're trying to run you out of town. It's certainly what it seems like. Yeah. He was hoping you'd get back in the plane and fly back home. So did you have you ever seen anybody dance like the machine, like as good as me, you think? No. At the David Buster's. That's what I was thinking. I was thinking, man, his dancing skills really stuck out. I was thinking, man, his dancing skills really stuck out. You weren't good at ski ball. I wasn't good at racing. Jimmy Wang Yang was he's good at conspiracy theories. That was very good. I don't know if you call it conspiracy theory. Next, you're going to tell me that Earth is round. No, I don't know this to me. I don't want you blaspheming trips to the moon, moonpies, the art of mooning, which we've lost as a country. Why don't we moon each other anymore? That's an excellent question. That used to be it. When was the last time you moved somebody? Oh, it's been a long time. I once moved a ship in Buenos Aires. A whole ship. The whole ship. Yeah. A bunch of Russian sailors was on the ship. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Like you just went starboard and dropped trial. Yeah. Yeah, we were on a ship and we had been to Antarctica and we're coming back and we saw this ship was Russian sailors and they were all like, you know, they're like the only ones in the port. They were singing at us and so I told everybody, so let's moon them. So we mooned them. Wait, so that was multiple moons. Oh, yeah, there was a ton of moons, like full moons. And you had a lot of semen involved. That's what you just told me. A lot of what? Semen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I bet you said you wanted all the sailors to join you and you wanted them to see your dingy. No, we mooned them. We didn't. You could have started a war. We could have. Yeah, it was. They're Russian sailors. One of them would have took that offensive. See, that's the point though. That really re-erates my point. Moaning is the funnest thing. Nobody gets offended by a moon. They just laugh. So they told Brian Blair one time, they being the Brisco brothers said, hey, we're going to moon Pat Patterson. And so because Pat had drove by him and mooned him and he goes, tell you what we're going to do. You get in the back in the trunk and when we get up next to Pat, we're going to pop the truck and you pop up and moon him. Okay. So he gets all ready so he could hear the Brisco brothers in the car. They said, okay, moon him. Well, they had pulled up and they parked in front of the diner at E Hall Junction. It was a black full of people. So there's the thing, they honked the horn. That comes Brian Blair's ass and they moon all the people in E Hall Junction and then Jack Brisco floors it and takes off and Brian falls out of the car with his pants down and they leave it. The mooning is always a fun story. Mooning, moonpies and moon landings. I'm here for all of them. I agree. Even if the moon landing was fake, I don't care. I'm not going to sit here and stand for it. You're going to get me. See, I'm at my front door. I think it's the suits. The men in black are here to I need it after seeing me in that shirt. And y'all just let me do that. Why not one of you said, hey, your gun is hanging out. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to say, hey, your gun is hanging out. I thought you looked okay. I really didn't. It looked like a busted can of biscuits for the whole 20 minutes. I heard. You know, that's people that actually used to open biscuits. I don't know. They still have them on the counter. Yeah, they still have the biscuits and the pressurized can. Why are we doing that? Why are we doing it? It scares me every time. And that's what your shirt looked like. Was the busted. It did. The aftermath was laying out on the counter. That's very descriptive. All right. Well, John, look, we survived. Jimmy Wang Yang. Jimmy was fantastic as we knew he would be. And I'm excited to hear feedback from everybody who well, maybe they saw it with John or Jimmy. They buy you. Hey, you know, I told Conrad this and he didn't really appreciate, you know, the mother's day is coming up and I told like all the wrestling fans, you know, a lot of your mamas used to be, you know, what we call, you know, affectionately rats and they used to get these guys out there should get their mama a JBL cameo and watch her turning like a giddy teenager looking at Elvis Presley again. You know, and I anyway. Would you I don't want to pay for one. Would you just would you do one for my mom right now and I'll just send it I'll just send it to the link. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll give it to your mom. But I'll send it to her like on the link. That way she can have it. Do it here. Do it here. And then we'll record it. Because then there's no send it to mama cast going here we go. There's no reason for people listen mama cast. I want to say this JBL here and I want to appreciate you coming all my events down there in Alabama and all the notes you gave me and all the hotel room keys that you sent my way and all the different things that you did. And I want to say I appreciate that. I know you're married probably somebody that you probably don't want to be married to but that's okay. You can still choose to fall in love and be in love with the one and only JBL. God bless you on Mother's Day. What? What? Let's wrap up. What was wrong with that? We got stuff to do in St. Louis. What's wrong with that? I said nice things. I wish you would turn around and move it. I wish you would turn around and move it. Get your one of a kind cameo from JBL right now from Mother's Day. Yeah. Tell her she's in a hopeless, loveless relationship and bring it up cause she was a rat. I love you mama cast. It's a fakesnit rat term not a bad rat a good rat. I'm about to moon you. You better have my son. Let's go be in full mode. I don't think we got enough camera.