Why Great Strategies Fail Without Great Leadership with Eric Dingler

Welcome to Tenacity with Sonia C, the podcast for founders, entrepreneurs, dreamers, and leaders navigating the journey of growth. In each episode, we get into the setbacks, the rebuilds, the pivots, and the lessons learned along the way. These are honest conversations with leaders who face challenges head on and found success in business and in life. I'm My guest today is Eric Dingler. He is the owner of a digital marketing agency and has spent nearly three decades leading teams, including the last several years running a fully remote company while traveling the world full time with his wife and four children. His work focuses on helping businesses, business owners lead better, build stronger teams, and create systems that support growth without the constant pressure. This matters because many founders hit a ceiling not because of their market, but because their leadership approach stops working as the business grows. In this conversation, we're breaking down what it actually takes to lead remote teams, build systems that scale, and grow a business without burning out or losing control. Hi, Eric. Welcome to the show. How are you today? I am doing fantastic. I have been looking forward to this all week. Nobody would know this by listening to it, but we're recording on a Friday. It's the last thing I do. And so I'm going out on a high note for the week. So I'm pretty pumped. Me too. That's awesome. I love your energy. It's a good way to start. Good. Yeah. So let's dive right in. When did you realize your business growth was limited by your leadership, not your strategy? Wow. That's really a really great question. So for me, it was when I realized we were on a treadmill. We kept having the same conversations about the same problems. And I realized that that was me. I wasn't leading us through a solution. So we didn't have to keep coming back to the same thing. So when, when we were having the same conversation multiple times is, is when I realized, Hey, wait a second. You know, it, it used to be enough for me to talk about it once. And in that small realm of just, you know, two or three of us, that's all it took. But once we started layers of leadership, you know, where it was people leading people that I didn't interact with that much is when the conversations had to keep repeating. Yeah, I can totally relate to that. Do you ever find yourself like or found yourself in a place where you're like you're having these conversations and people get really excited about the conversation? But then when you kind of like get up from the boardroom and go off, nothing really gets done. it was just a conversation? Yes. Yeah. And I can kind of, I kind of unintentionally contributed to that because I'm a verbal processor. And so I'll meet with somebody on my team and we'll talk about, you know, maybe, maybe we'll talk about, uh, okay. So this, this coming fall, we're going to have our, we're going to host our first online summit. And so I'll talk to one person and we'll come up with some ideas and we'll be brainstorming and we'll walk out of that meeting and they think we have, you know, we, we've decided some things, but I was just brainstorming. And so then I go into the next meeting with somebody else and we start talking about it and we brainstorm other ideas. And so I kind of pivot my mind and then I talked to a third person and then all of a sudden when we get all together, people are like, well, wait, I thought it was going to be this. I thought we, I thought we decided three days and five. And I'm like, no. Now, luckily, I learned that about myself a long time ago. So I'm not doing that during the summit planning process because a long time ago, I realized I had to tell people at the end of a conversation, I have to end with, hey, thanks. This was a great brainstorming session. We haven't decided anything today. I had fun daydreaming though with you. We'll, you know, we'll bring this up. that. Or I have to say, Hey, this is great. Let's lock it down. Can you take the ball and run with it from here? Or I'm going to have, you know, let me, let me loop Emily in. Emily's my executive assistant. You know, let me loop Emily in on this and, you know, she'll help me take it from here. So I've just had to, I've had to learn that I had to communicate to people at the end of a a conversation, what conversation I was having, because obviously sometimes we weren't having the same, we weren't having the same type of conversation, I should say. I, I totally get it. So I feel like you had to be very intentional about what you were saying, who you were saying it to, and what was the action plan from that conversation? Yeah, because my team started to learn over time. Well, when I talk with Eric, he's just like, I can't take action yet because he's still may be thinking about something. Then I would have a conversation and I would walk out of the meeting thinking, oh, we just came up with a solution. But nobody went to do anything because they were waiting for me to come back with my next thing. You know, oh, guys, you know, I was talking to so-and-so and I realized we could do this. And so that's when I realized, hey, one of the reasons we keep having conversations and nobody's taking an ownership for solution is because they thought we were having this type of conversation. I thought we were having this type of conversation. And so I had to, as the leader, I had to own the responsibility of doing it. One of the things we do now is part of our culture of our company. When somebody starts a meeting, we start meetings with the point of today's meeting is, and that's the kickoff to the meeting. And then that way, everybody knows, oh, okay, this is what we're doing with this. I found myself in that place too, but I like what you did. It's very intentional. What does a leadership capacity ceiling look like in a real business for you? The thing about leadership capacity is no business is going to grow beyond the capacity of leadership. I've talked with people and they're hanging around with friends or something like, oh man, we've been stalled for six months. The economy has just got to stall. And you know what? The economy can impact things, but if you've been stalled for six months, you're not leading something. Well, leadership isn't happening somewhere. You've reached your capacity in that area. And so for me, leaders always need to be growing or your business will stop. I mean, it's just that's it's not your marketing isn't your capacity, your market reach, market saturation, marketing dollars, the size of your team. It's the leadership capacity. If you're holding on to every decision, because I used to think, and this was a long time ago when I was a young leader, I used to think the more questions that came to me from my team, that made me valuable and important. But then as the company grew to the point, I could only handle so many questions in a day. People would have to wait now two, three, four days to hear back from me. are we we started missing deadlines and it was a leadership issue i thought it had i thought only i could make these decisions so i think when you're looking at this how do you self-diagnose this you know in your own self your own company um is if your people have lack of clarity that's a leadership capacity issue. If your team has plenty of clarity and not enough hours in the day, that's an operational capacity issue. And so those are the differences, I think. So let me run a scenario by you because I've heard this a lot and I've experienced some of it myself. So, you know, most founders are believers that, number one, if they need to get something done right, they need to do it themselves. And then they get excited about new ideas and things that they want to do. And sometimes we automatically assume that so does our team, right? But really, we're the only ones that are excited about it. And so I guess my question is, like, is that because like our expectations, because we're excited about something, sometimes are not reasonable? I think in my experience, when I got excited about something and my team wasn't excited about it, it was an, it was an issue of vision and alignment. I, I might see how something is really interesting, you know, going to help us, you know, achieve our vision. But the team doesn't see it yet. And so, you know, it's one of the reasons, you know, Simon Sinek's book, you know, start, you know, start with why is so important. You know, we, we have to constantly be casting vision. And if I'm not able to, or I don't take the time to communicate to the team, like, Hey, listen, I'm really, you know, I've got this idea and I'm really excited because it's going to solve these three things over here, which is going to turn this part of the, you know, it's going to turn that department into better of alignment, you know, towards our vision. Um, if I don't communicate that, then when I show up excited about with an idea, it's just another thing that has to be done. And people like to win. And so when you're able to say, hey, this is it. And by doing that, the other thing, something I've learned that helps me is sometimes I do get just genuinely excited about an idea. But then when I sit down and go, okay, how do I connect this to our vision for the team? I really quickly realized, oh, this was just a shiny object. This was, this is totally off brand. It's off vision. It's not part of our mission. And, and now I see I'm, I'm just excited about it because it's new. Cause I get excited really easily about new ideas. Yeah, me too. Yeah. So, but when I sit down and go, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm going to tell, oh my gosh, you know i have a new exciting idea every day um and so when i sit down and go okay i'm going to share this to the team and when i start to think through how am i how am i going to get past connect this to vision that's when i either realize like oh this is really good or i realize oh wait this was just something i was excited about and then i i write it down on my someday list yeah so i've I've had moments personally in running companies. I've had moments where I sit with my team and I'm like, this is the vision for this year. This is the goal. Our goal is to change this, change that and get to this point. And everyone's like, yes, we're on board and everyone's so excited. And I used to have the saying I know it not very nice but sometimes I would be like my team is where things go to die ideas go to die because everyone would get super excited about it We sort of put together you know everyone would walk away with actions of things they have to do And then they go back to their desks and to the day to day and they kind of get back into the mode that they were in before they showed up to the meeting. And then and then I start feeling like I'm their assistant asking them, did you do this thing that we talk about? when is that going to be done did you start that it's been three months where is it and like is it because they're not excited is it because they they're they're not interested or they're overwhelmed like what happens from that excitement in that boardroom to them just going off and completely forgetting about that discussion or do they just not care i have i always go back to the system i believe it's a systems problem. It's never a people problem. And I can, I can fix systems. And I can, I can, you know, yeah, fix systems. I can build better systems or fix systems that influence people. So, you know, it could, it's real, that's one that's, it, you know, it's going to depend upon the team, their experiences, you know, has, is this one more thing that you've gotten excited about and then later changed your mind? Like as a leader, do you have a habit of doing that? Because if so, then the team is going to be there like, there's just one more of their nutty ideas. But I have found that with my team anyways, genuinely what we do is I love to set the big vision out there. And then one of my favorite questions is, okay, what has to happen for that to be true? And then I just stopped talking and Well, we'd have to do this. What has to happen for that to be true? Well, then we have to do that. Okay, well, what has to happen for that? And I just keep asking that question. And then it breaks it down into really small steps. And really, until we get to the point where I'll go, you know what, can we come back next Monday with that? Can everybody do those four things? You do that one, you do that one, you do that one, you do that one. And if you don't have time, tell me now, because my job is to get something out of your way. And I teach my team when we're onboarding our team and I have to remind them, it is totally okay for you to look at me and say, hey, Eric, this is a really good idea. I'm currently working on these three other things. Which one should I stop working on to work on this new thing? Because a lot of times I'll go, oh, that first thing, forget about that. Pause that. Or a lot of times I'll go, oh yeah, you know what? I forgot we were working on those three. Let's put this, we'll put this fourth idea in a parking lot and let's put it on the agenda for our very first meeting in Q3 or Q4. I love it. And that question, getting that question back from my team, it empowers them to lead up. and for somebody like on a disc profile you know person you know a disc profile I'm a high d if somebody walked into my office and I if I was busy and how a lot going on and somebody walked in and said hey listen you know these things you said I'm not going to do it I'd be like oh well then I guess I get to only sign one more paycheck of yours I'm very excited like I would not respond well to that. But having that question, Eric, working on these, help me see which one you want me to stop. Then I'll go home. Or they can come in and say, hey, you've given me, I'm working on these three priorities. You just put this one on. I need three weeks, extra weeks, because I believe that these three are more important. A lot of times, eventually people will get to do that, which is good because now they're problem solving and thinking they're owning the responsibility. But it starts with new people by giving them that ability to say, really what you're doing is you're giving people some, you're giving somebody the ability to say, I'm overwhelmed, but they don't feel bad or feel like they're whining or complaining because you've given them language to use. I think a lot of leaders go through that process, especially in the early stages, because they're like bubble head. They have a million ideas and the team doesn't always understand you. So, yeah, let's move on. What did you have to change first in how you led your team? uh i had to realize that the like i said a little bit ago um my value isn't in how many questions i have to answer in a day um my greatest value is developing my team um to make decisions that you know are the decisions i was going to make you know or at least you know come from the same value system that I have. Um, and, uh, yeah. So I think that was, I really used to, oh man, when I, when I was first leading, I ran a summer camp, uh, and I just thought I had to be the aunt, you know, I just, I, you know, I wore it as a badge of honor that I was working from 7.00 AM to midnight, you know, um, getting radio calls in the middle of the night. If a camper got sick and, you know, where I, I thought that was, I thought that was real leadership. Um, and now that I own my own company, you know, even starting out, I used to think, you know, similar things, not to that extent. Um, but it was really robbing me of, of more so it was robbing my family is what I was doing. Um, and the real win is when we got to the point, like about three years ago, you know, me and my wife and our four, you know, kids, we went, we spent 10 days in the Amazon jungle. Wow. Nobody could have reached us if they wanted to. I mean, we were off grit. I own a web design digital marketing agency and we've got several hundred client websites on our server. Man, if we would have had a server issue and 350 client websites went offline, the team would have had to solve it 100% on their own because I wasn't here. They couldn't even have reached me in the Amazon. That was the that was the moment when I felt when we when we got into the jungle is when I realized I was leading. I was leading the way I should have been leading all along. And sometimes it's hard to have that lesson. Was there something was there something hard for you that you had to let go of? uh from a task perspective yet my my email um you know letting my letting my executive assistant start handling all my email that was really really hard because now she's saying no to people that want to meet with me and i want to meet with everybody so um and it's like man what if she says no to the wrong person. What if somebody reached out and it's a $150,000 deal and she says no to them? And so from a practical point of view, that was the hardest and scariest. I totally understand. Totally worth it though. Totally worth it. Yeah, I know for sure. but but you know it's hard to let go of some of these things like like your email you we get attached to it like it's our baby right what do you mean someone else is going to manage my time what yeah yeah well again it's i felt vow i got value out of that yeah yeah yeah you know so it was that was that was hard how do you build trust with a remote team when you are not physically present? So culture trumps vision. So building trust and creating team culture is super important. So why we're not physically present, we are digitally present in a very regular basis. So we have several different things we do. For me as a leader, it's leading with transparency. We have no secret metrics. We have no secret dashboards. The metrics I look at as the CEO, the metrics I look at on a weekly basis, everybody on my team gets the exact same metrics. You know, lead count, lead conversion, pipeline numbers, MRR, you know, like every single metric, you know, average ticket, you know, every average sale ticket, you know, commission rates, everything. Because bad things grow in the dark. and I talk to people and they're like, oh yeah, but what if somebody sees that and they get all upset because somebody, you know, that, you know, and I'm like, well, then I've hired people with the wrong character. And again, it goes back to systems. You know, if, if I'm hiring people or if we, I don't do all the hiring anymore. Now my, my team helps with hiring. If we hire people that are going to get that upset out of over something. We've hired somebody that does, that's not aligned with our values. And so we're just very, you know, aware of, of that. So one, just being very transparent, radically honest. Everybody meets one-on-one every week with their, their leader. You know, every leader has everybody on my, everybody on my team that's a leader has to meet every week and do a one-on-one with their direct reports. I meet with all of my, you know, direct reports every week. We have an company, all staff once a month. And we change the time. Some of the times, you know, some of the, sometimes people in the, you know, the, the Americas are getting up at one o'clock in the morning. And, you know, a month later it's the you know the team in asia or europe that's getting up at one o'clock in the morning you know so it's but it's just but everybody we we talk about that in the in interviews like it's no surprise in the job description you know it's no nobody is no and if they're like oh i don't ever want to get up at one o'clock for an all staff then go work for somebody else i mean everybody's hiring right now like go work for somebody else that's okay um our i would so i would say our during even recruiting were very transparent i tell people all that like if you want a job with a company that has all of their sops in place and everything just runs perfect and there's no chaos you don't want to work for us because it's a little chaotic behind the scenes um in some areas because the airplane took off and we're still building it um we haven't Like so you coming on board a plane that still under construction but we also at 30 feet in the air and we can land So so we just in our interview process we just very honest with people maybe even sometimes maybe even a little over sharing Yeah I really want people to understand what they're getting into. So it starts with that. Um, and then the onboarding process, having meetings with people, um, everybody, every, you know, everybody does a weekly, you know, fills in a quick weekly report on the last day of their work week. It's just six questions. and then outside of our project management team management software we keep a separate whatsapp group and it's our virtual break room and what's crazy is i've got team in india bulgaria ukraine el salvador united states all of these the united kingdom everybody on my team is within like five minutes of a Starbucks, no matter where they are in the world. And so we load in barcodes for the different Starbucks regions and our team can go into their local Starbucks and scan it and get a coffee. Because if I had, if when I had a, when I had a, a ran the camp, we had an employee break room and we kept, you know, a cooler of drinks in there for the team. And, you know, the cooks would, you know, add, have cookies and, you know, stuff like that. So we do it the same in virtual. And then we ask a question of the week. Once a month, we do a contest. We'll do a photo contest. But we try to do a photo contest that's like, you know, or like, you know, upload a 10 second video from inside your grocery store. because a grocery store in Bulgaria looks very different than a grocery store in El Salvador looks very different than a grocery store in, you know, Ohio. And so it's that, or like, take us to your favorite park, take us to your favorite restaurant. And so we just, because if you were, if you were in an office building and you were in the break room and somebody goes, oh, did anybody try the new Italian place down at Lord's Corner? You know, there's a similar reference there that everybody knows. Oh, yeah, no, I haven't been there yet. You know, well, how do you do that in a virtual team? You know, it's the same thing. Oh, here's my favorite restaurant. And then we, you know, we'll go in and like create a Google map and drop pens on it. You can go and see. So it's just, you have to be very intentional to create those opportunities. We make, we celebrate birthdays, anniversaries. We celebrate the birthdays of our team's kids. We celebrate their birthdays. So there's just a lot of things. We're constantly doing stuff to celebrate as a team and have fun. Yeah. I'll hide stuff then on our website, you know, and announce a contest. You got to be careful with some of that stuff. Not careful. You just have to take into account time zones and things like that. But we just have a lot of fun. I find fascinating sort of like your approach to it. There was a lot of things that you mentioned that I probably I would have never thought of just because I'm an in-person type of person. I hate virtual. But hearing you, I'm like, okay, if someone really needs to run their business virtually, there is still a way to like feel that connection to your team and your employees. So I really like that. An example, we had all staff one time and I, at the very beginning, I was like, okay. You know, and I think there were like seven of us on, on the screen. I was like, okay. And I knew everybody was in their house, you know, and I, and cause we told them ahead of time, you know, be this, don't be in a cohort, like their cafe being your house. And I was like, okay, everybody go get your favorite frying pan or cooking pot right now. And we all just jumped up and went running and came back. And it was just, it was just something for fun and silly, but brought everybody like the inside of their, their world. And then we started realizing like, they all looked very different. And so anyway, yeah, just having random fun. I like it. What has been your biggest leadership mistake while running a remote team? pride for sure um thinking that you know we've arrived when we haven't at at things um you know yeah i i starting out a long time ago was pride um and and not only that you know thinking that because we're we were remote and someone was a freelancer that just not seeing them as valuable as I would have in person. So what did you have to do to fix that in yourself? I just had to just I had to begin to begin. Well, one, I had to admit that I was doing it, but then just just just started having to start to be more intentional. embrace the idea of a virtual break room and you know that you know that kind of stuff and so yeah I also over promise things to my team starting out because when we started out and it was just one other person on the team my so my family and I my wife and our four we have four teenagers right now for the last four and a half years we've been full-time digital nomads and when I started the agency, I just had one other person and we were in Istanbul and they were in Bulgaria. And so I flew him and his wife over and we hung out for a week in Istanbul. And so then our team really started to rapidly grow. And by the next year we had, you know, four and then, you know, nine and, you know, the team, you know, kept growing as the company was growing. And I promised everybody like, oh, every other year we're going to have a company retreat, no matter you know we're gonna bring everybody together you know from all around the world well that's way more expensive than i anticipated and so i felt really bad about that because i had to go and tell everybody like um we're not doing it i over promised i just so that was a pretty big mistake um but again it was pride not you know not counting the cost before i opened my mouth yeah so yeah there's a couple of examples i have many more i'm sure yeah no i'm sure i always like to try and extract at least one so our listeners can be like hey i've been doing that here's how i can solve that problem right yeah hey we're going to i mean but it also helped like my team also makes mistakes it helps me have grace for my team when they mess up you know like okay you know we all do it. The goal is one of our values is systematized for success. And so, okay. And our very first policy as a company is the no policy policy, which means we don't create a policy just because something happens one time. Sometimes things just happen. We're not going to overreact. And so we really wrestle with, does that really need a policy? Was that a one-time thing. And then if it is, then we systematize for success. You talk about structure endurance. What does that look like in your daily leadership habits and what keeps you consistent? For me, it's I have to have regular reminders and I want to make sure that my team has the, you know, regular reminders. So I every morning I read through the same exact thing every morning that reminds me of, you know, our why and what, you know, what we're headed towards our three big priorities right now. Um, and it's just that, that constant reminder, uh, I'm always trying to grow one area of my leadership and it's challenging to grow in, in leadership because it's different than, let's say, trying to change to a diet, a new diet. Okay, you don't have that food in your house. Or you can hang a post-it note up on the refrigerator to remind you. And so if you walk to the refrigerator mindlessly, you see that. A lot of times in leadership, our leadership, there's a lot of intentionality in leadership, but there's also a lot of reaction in leadership. You know, how do I want to be as, how do I want to react to certain situations? And you can't, I used to struggle always identifying the trigger, you know, because I, you know, every habit book talks about that, you know, well, that's great, except for when it, there isn't a trigger because it's a conversation thing that comes up. So I always have something that I'm trying to work on. And then I always ask myself in the morning, you know, okay, did I have any chances in the last 24 hours to do this? And then I just, I just have to be honest with myself. Where did I do well? Where did I drop the ball? Do I have any known or predictable environments coming up the next 24 hours where I may get to implement this? And then I just do that every single day. So I have to have that morning routine of reminding myself. And then I do the same thing with my team. Every Monday, I send a text message out to, you know, a team chat. We still call them tech. But I call it, I send a text message out through our team chat of everybody that I'm leading. And I ask them, what's the priority you're working on this week that has nothing to do with a project? because they know I'm asking them, like, where are you developing? Because when everybody is reminding themselves, so our digital marketing agency, the reason our agency exists is because we want to help local businesses be more successful so they have greater margin of money and time to donate to causes that they're passionate about that are geared towards ending human suffering around the world. And so we help our clients be successful, but we are also every month to our clients, we're sharing stories about, you know, another company volunteering in their community or a nonprofit that one of our clients donated to that just dug, you know, this well and, you know, this community in Africa, You know, a nonprofit that helps families, you know, fund their adoptions. Uh, business has such a great business owners have the ability to create margin that can fund that stuff And so we that why we exist And so we work with companies that want to be able to do more even even just hiring more people in their community So we have to collect those stories and share them with our team first. So our team remembers, Hey, right now it's really a kind of a pain because Google's changed their algorithm again. And now we have to completely rework our local SEO packages because what worked last February is not working this. Like that's a pain in the butt and it's draining and it's hard. And that's where it'd be easy to give up. But when we come back to, well, this is why we're not just trying to help people get rank higher on local SEO. So they rank higher when they rank higher, they bring in more customers. They bring in more, you know, they, they, they make more money. They now have more margin to contribute to, you know, causes that they're passionate about. Um, so having those reminders, all those reminders about the why that's what structures that endurance. And I think then that's what makes tenacity so achievable. It's not, I want this bad enough. That's not the fuel that's going to carry things over through the long haul. It's the, this is going to help us make a difference. So we're going to, so I'm going to push through on that. So our vision is to help business owners, impact life change around the world. Our mission right now, our vehicle happens to be web design and digital marketing. That's how we could have done it through business coaching. I didn't want to, we do it through marketing and helping companies help better in their marketing. And then we have our set of core values and the core values determine how we make decisions within our mission that's driving us towards our vision. And I just talk about that all the time with my team. Setting the vision and you're setting the direction. So everybody sort of, it seems to me like you're sort of structuring your business as nothing is a surprise and they know exactly what to expect from you and leadership. Well, Eric, we're coming up on time. It flew. But before we wrap up, I have one last question for you. How have you built a business that allows you to travel full time without losing performance? My team, a hundred percent. I mean, it's, uh, we wouldn't be anywhere if it, if it wasn't for, for the team. Uh, so, um, yeah, yeah. And that's scary. That's scary. A little bit, but I, I didn't know it was scary because for 15 years when I ran the summer camp, like I had no choice, but to hire people. Right. Right. Like I had all these kids coming, We had to hire people to help take care of and cook meals and lifeguard. I couldn't do all of it. And so every year, though, at the end of the summer, I got to go, OK, what worked, what didn't? And I got to reinvent my leadership every year and grow. And most leaders don't get the chance to do that unless they exit, unless you exit something. And then maybe you take the time to do that between the exit and your next startup. But generally, that just doesn't happen. And so that was a really unique experience. So when I started my, my, what became my agency, I hired right away my, you know, two hours, two hours a week, $4 and 50 cents an hour. My first employee cost me $9 a week. But, and he, that was six years ago. And he's now our director of web services, you know, full-time runs a team. Six years ago, the guy barely knew how to log into a WordPress website. So, you know, that's, that's, but that developing your people and letting them grow up and own responsibility. So yeah. So we, we have a lot, a lot of founders, they have mindsets that don't serve them well. Like you talked about at the beginning. And so it can be scary, but man, having a team is my favorite part of owning a business. Yeah, for sure. It takes time to wrap your mind around. This is my baby. And I can't, it's growing to a point where I can't do everything. Right? I think sometimes it takes, well, I mean, I know I've been there. It takes like a moment or sometimes something like for me, there was a time when something physically happened to me, I got sick, and I had to take time off and I just couldn't. And that's when I had that realization like, oh, crap, my team has to do this. So I have to rely on them. And then when I came back, it was like, wait a minute, they do this better than me. And then all of a sudden I'm like, wait, I don't want to go back to doing that. Like, I'm okay with them doing it now. Like, please take it over. Right. Yeah, that's really cool. That's true. Yeah. You know, it's like I'm a I'm a parent. We've got four kids and you know i love seeing them now excel in independence you know and becoming their own person and stuff like that it's the same with the team and not just them taking on more responsibilities and doing things um you know uh like four months ago was the last time we we had one of our team their their their they had their two-year-old's birthday and they were posting pictures from the birthday party and stuff like that. And I was sitting there and I was looking through them and, you know, I looked, my wife was sitting there and I looked and I said, you know, I hope I never get tired of the fact that what you and I started as a side hustle is creating a life for that little boy. And that's, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So I just, it's a great, it's worth it. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't have got here if it wasn't for having solid mentors and, and having people that was speaking into my life as a leader. I've always, I've had a coach of some kind in business and leadership for it, for 20 years straight. There's never been a time in 20 years at least there's never been a single moment in 20 years that I didn't have a coach or you know in some area yeah of my leadership or business you know it changes from time that you know they change yeah you got to have you got to have a leader good leadership mentor and coach yeah I think that's super important if if there's anything that I can always tell or advise other founders is like, get a mentor, get a coach. Like you said, they can, they can differ and be different at different times, depending on maybe you're, you have different needs, but always have you, we have to be beings that are always willing to grow and learn. And you can't do that on your own. Yeah, absolutely. And I've always, and when I'm talking to somebody about a possible, I ask like so what's it look like for me to outgrow you and if they don't have an answer yeah but if they don't have an answer for that well that makes me kind of nervous you know that's a good point you know well wait what's your plan because I want to know what's your plan how are you going to help me get get better um and so yeah so I just it's it's so important it's so important and And that's good advice because you're also saying like, make sure when you are picking a coach or a mentor that you're, you're not just grabbing somebody from a pile and make sure that you're very intentional about the type of coach that you're going to have as well. Right. Yeah. And if you're at a point like now, cause I know there's, I can't afford a coach, you know, you can have, you can have a coach that you're not paying, um, you know, author, you know, binge, binge, read an author, um, uh, a podcast. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We have access today to the mind and the way certain people think and make decisions through their podcasts, through their YouTube channels that we didn't have 20 years ago. Yeah, it's true. And so, you know, you were saying that's one of the reasons you started your podcast is to create that space. And so it's there. And not only that, I think as soon as you can, we call it everybody. We say in my team, I tell everyone, you know, everybody should have a Batman and everybody should have a Robin. Have one person a step ahead of you that's investing in you and have somebody you're investing in. So everybody on my team is investing in time into somebody else. And it's not anybody on. Let me think. Yes. As of right now, it's nobody on our team. Everybody's coaching somebody or mentoring somebody that doesn't even work for our company. And that's fine. That's fine. Yeah. Well, Eric, thank you so much for this lovely chat on a Friday afternoon. It was lovely to have you on. And thank you for being open and sharing everything that you've experienced and being willing to, you know, send that off to the next generation. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And you're an amazing question asker. I try. I need a better word. I know everybody listening right now just went, that's not what you call that, Eric. I think, but everybody will understand you. I couldn't get to work. It's fine. Thank you. I appreciate that. That's actually very nice. Makes me feel good. Thanks. You bet. I want to thank Eric for joining me today. One thing that stands out in this conversation is your business will not grow beyond your ability to lead it. Systems, communications, and expectations are not optional. They are the structure that holds growth in place. As founders, we often look outside for solutions, but the real work is building the discipline and the clarity inside our leadership so the team can actually execute without friction. Take time this week to identify one area where your leadership is creating confusion and replace it with a clear system your team can follow without you. And that's a wrap. Thank you for joining me on this journey of learning and growth. If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to subscribe to the podcast, leave a review and share it with someone who's building through a challenge right now. You can also connect with us on social media and be part of a community that believes resilience is the real advantage. Remember, growth isn't linear, success isn't guaranteed and setbacks are part of the process. What matters is how you execute. This is Sonia signing off. But as always, keep chasing your dreams with tenacity. you