EP8 - Deep Breath, Deep Breath

Welcome back to Beth Stead, Episode 8. I'm Monica Padman. And if you've been following along with us, at the end of the last episode, episode seven, we sent an email to the professor hoping to make contact. And we just hopped on to record because the three of us were just on a just standard logistical meeting about the show. And we got an email back. It says, what is this regarding? um we sent one back to that and we did say this is regarding a catfishing podcast we'd really like to speak with you let us know and so we just got a response to that email uh literally while we were all meeting on zoom about everything else and it's just sitting there in our inbox ready what do we all think i think he's gonna say i have no idea what you're talking about i i'm fine thank you i yeah i think he's gonna say i'm i'm not interested in participating i disagree i think it will be weird but i think it will be a slightly door ajar for us to explore more with this person. That's my guess. All right, you guys ready? Yeah. Opening up the Google account. Oh, my God. Here we go. Who wants to read it? Oh, my God. Elizabeth? Okay. It says, okay, that's what I thought. I'm really reluctant to relive the darkest period of my life, so I'm begging you to not use any information that might lead to me being identified and my family being publicly humiliated. I can be available when you want. Oh, my God. Door ajar. You nailed it. Door ajar? Door blasted wide open. Oh, my God. I don't know that I've ever been so nervous in my life. Yeah, I feel, I feel, you guys, I feel, I'm stressed. I'm stressed out. I'm stressed out. Look, I have to be me here. This email makes me very sad. Oh, it feels so manipulative to me. Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm not buying this. Okay, wait. Okay. I had a thought. Can we stop sharing this? screen because I want to see Monica as we like discuss moves. Yes. I think our response has to be kind and calculated. Totally. Agreed. And also kind of forthright. I think it would be like we understand. We understand. We understand and we address his concerns and we say you know, in an ideal world, we would love to set up a Zoom with myself and one of the producers from Armchair or however you want to say, like, it would be me and Monica from Armchair Expert. We are definitely open to keeping your identity. We're definitely open to working with you to... On anonymity? Or maybe we're, I mean, I don't know how nice you want to be, but like making this easiest for you. Like, I think we really have to fawn a little bit here. Yeah. I think it's like our intention is not to humiliate anyone. That is not my intention. No. Actually, at all. We're not naming him, but it will be humiliating to him hearing the show. But we're not publicly humiliating him. But that's not our intention. Our intention is to tell, I think we could say this, Our intention is to tell our story, how we experienced it. It's not to humiliate anyone. We would really love to hear from you about how you experienced this. You guys, you guys, you're going to get answers. Like real answers. This person is not pretending he didn't do anything. Well, I don't think he can. Yeah, he's not. He's copying to it. I just, I want, I mean, I love that you're here with us for this, Monica, because I do think that my radar is up so high of like, he's, this is so manipulative where you're like, it's not. So I think it's good that we're going to have like both perspectives, but I'm already worried. I'm not going to believe a word that comes out of this man's mouth. Do you know what I mean? But you can't show that while you're talking to him. You have to play the role of the like understanding. Well, you do and you don't. Look, that is why we're both there. this happened to you two it did not happen to me so i do have the ability to be removed and potentially offer some compassion in a way that you maybe you like just can't and also that's fine if you can't like you know yeah victims get to handle what happened to them however they want so i think the response is we understand we appreciate your willingness here's what i i think it should be um let me just jot this down i won't even do it in the reply yet because that scares me um i'm just composing new thing okay well there's another message oh oh wait no that's just from that's the original thing that came out okay okay i mean it wouldn't be out of character that's why um so say we understand our intention is only to tell our experience of this story it's not to humiliate anyone we appreciate you talking to us it will be myself andy and our producer from armchair we would like to set up a zoom and a zoom is just a lot to add like i think i would even be like no we really need the zoom so we can visually confirm is who we think it is. Like, I'm not trusting a phone call. Well, maybe we could say, can we set up a Zoom? We won't use any video. We just would like to see you. Or we'd like to have a face-to-face interaction. Oh, you mean like we won't use the video of him later? Gotcha, gotcha. We won't use any video and any audio would remain anonymous. that's a tricky he's gonna be weirded out about a recording i mean it seems like he wants to make his piece right now which is it doesn't i don't think so i think we have the upper hand here too though i actually think we say ideally we would like to zoom with you we will be recording the audio with your permission I don't think we say record. We just say we'd like to Zoom so we can be face-to-face. And then are we... Then we have to decide from there what we feel is ethical. Because I don't know what that's going to happen in that conversation. And I don't know if it's just a retelling for us or if we do want to use the audio. That's why I'm saying we say what we want, like we would like to record the audio for the show. And then if he pushes back, then we might have to pivot. I think it gives him too much of a reason to shut the door. I kind of do, too, because he's already asking in this email. He's already saying. He's begging us. Yes, he is. He's like, I will chat with you. Basically, like, to end this. And the thing I'm asking is, please don't do what we're about to ask him to do. I mean, unless we changed, morphed his voice. That's super easy to do. That's not a problem. All right. So maybe what we do here is don't mention the recording. See if he'll get on Zoom. You guys are going to get on Zoom with him and see in the first second who it is And then you can say we really appreciate you doing this We completely understand your concerns By that point I think it fair to say we want to ask you if you okay with us just recording this audio And we are happy to change your voice to keep it anonymous. So I think that's the move. Yeah. Like once we see him. And then navigate that in real time. Yeah. Yeah. And if he's like, no, no way, it's like, okay, we tried. But the most important thing I do think out of all of this is verifying who this is. Exactly. I agree. And asking them the questions. This is like, I can't believe that there's going to be real answers. Yeah. I was not really expecting that. I wasn't either. I thought it was going to be no way. You guys, we need to do this quickly. and I think we need to say to him, do any of these times work? Like we need to... Yeah, yeah, let's be like very pro. I mean, should we offer tomorrow when we were supposed to record? We can do that. I almost feel like, can we do today? I think we need more time to prep. I think we might need to sit with this for a day. And we need to decide, we need to have a list of questions that we're going to ask. I know, but I'm like, can you do 2 p.m. our time today? because you don't want to give them time to think. That's true. Is there one window that we could do today? I could. I have an appointment at 1.30, but I could do 2.30 or. Three? Three. Do it. Guys, it feels crazy to do it today. It's not. We're in it. It's not crazy. And I have the questions, like, I can jot them down in the next five minutes to have a jumping off point. Okay. Are you available to Zoom today at 3 p.m. PST? Thank you. Andy, how do we feel? Okay, I feel good. The only other thing I would throw in that maybe we could say to get him off his defenses would be our intention is to tell our story and speak to parasocial relationships. Like maybe make it something that seems a little intellectual so he doesn't think this is just about him. It's kind of like we're doing like a thing on parasocial relationships. and so it's a little less about like... Tell our story and the dynamic of parasocial... And speak largely to parasocial relationships. I like that. Speak largely to parasocial relationships. Okay, guys. We completely understand. Our intention is only to tell our story and speak largely to parasocial relationships. It's not to humiliate anyone and we appreciate you talking to us. It will be myself and our producer, Monica, from Armchair. This is good. Are you available to video Zoom today at 3 p.m. PST? Thank you, Andy. Yeah. Great. Oh, my gosh. Okay, I'm sending it, guys. Okay. I think we need to go over questions right now then if that's good with you guys. Yeah, absolutely. High on my list is some way of asking him about the $1,000 donation. And so I would love to craft a question that we figure out the best way to ask him about that. And what do you want to know about it? Just kind of like, you know, one thing that we've been scratching our heads about revisiting this is the large donation that you made to us. And I mean, maybe this is as simple as that. I was wondering if you could speak to that at all. Was that calculated in any way? We've just never really been able to understand that aspect of this whole thing. Yeah, I want to know, was it a way for him to indebt me to him or the character of Beth? Which I'm assuming it was. Or like, where did that come from? Maybe like, what kind of hobbies is he into? Favorite colors? That's hilarious. What's like top of your list, Monica? Yeah. Being more on the outside. Yeah. For me, it's, what were you getting out of this? Yeah. I need to know that. Like, what was happening that made you keep coming back and engaging? And was it like, you felt connected? You know, there's a, I want to know what he got. I think that's a great question. Yesterday, listening to our web designer conversation, she goes, I think that this was his way of forcing you and Andy and all of your listeners to participate in his kink. I don't know if he'd ever say that exactly, but that's such a good theory. He probably wouldn't know it's his kink. Well, no, I don't think he's going to say that. But I do think it's an interesting angle. Yeah, like psychologically. My main question is, what was he going to say to me if I called that number? That's a great one. Yes. And also, I think it's like, and what do you wish you could say to her now? Yeah. That's, I think, a great way to wrap it up. Yeah. Yeah. Support for Beth Stead comes from Honey Love. Okay, Elizabeth, have you tried the crossover bra? Yes. I love the crossover bra. It's so comfortable. What I love is it doesn't have underwire, but it still lifts and supports. There are very few bras I can do all of those things. It doesn't dig. It doesn't pinch. There's no red lines, no pressure points. Yeah, I totally agree. And it's doing some heavy lifting over here. Same. Same, girl. Same. I also love that they have a very, very wide range of sizes. 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It provides 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens, and so much more. Stick with your wellness goals. Go to cachava.com and use code Beth for 15% off. That's cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code Beth, B-E-T-H. I want to know, from the get-go, was it supposed to go this way? Or did it evolve over time? Did it get away from you? Was the suicide always in the plan? Yeah. Yeah, I also want to know about guilt. Like, does he think about this ever? I mean, I think he does. If he thinks about it and if he has remorse, what part, what specific part, like, lingers? What part gives him? He wrote back. Oh, boy. Okay. I kind of want to see it. Do you want me to share screen, Monica? God, he's so fast. Yeah. I don't have reliable Wi-Fi, so I don't know how well Zoom will work. We can try it or something else. Okay. Okay. Okay, great. Let's give it a try. I think it's just we send him a link. But is he going to use the Wi-Fi as like a I can't get on video? Yeah. Oh, yeah, he is. Yeah. Fuck, if he's not on video, motherfucker. I think we push back a little bit and say that this needs to be face to face. It's important to us that this is face to face. Like we want to talk like human beings. Yeah. And then should we just share the link? Yeah. Okay. I think that's good. Oh, my God. This is wild. I mean, we've gotten farther than I even thought we would. This is nuts. This is, oh, my God. It's also happening so fast. I know. Well, it's good, though. I mean, we got to jump strike while the iron's hot. I really think this is the way to do it. So, Elizabeth, you're going to be like, you're going to not hear any of it. Or are you? I'm going to not hear any of it, which might be cool. You guys like reporting back to me. I mean, I wonder if you're on the Zoom as a camera off. Yeah, because, Elizabeth, what if you get so compelled and you're like, I want to ask you something. Yeah. You know what? I do want to be a fly on the wall. I think you should be close by or off camera. Yeah. And also that way I can text you things if I have questions that come up as it goes. Not that you need to be beholden to that. You'll text both of us. But I think you need to experience this. Like, you were the largest victim in this whole thing. And you know what? Maybe I will pop on. I'll text you guys if I'm going to. I'm not just going to like, hey. but I don't I think we need to decide I think that because we didn't give him a heads up either I don't know why that feels weird to me okay in some ways it's like you want him to see the face of the person he's been doing this to yeah and he was so so specifically like manipulative of me and my feelings during such a tender time in my life yeah You know, like the mother dying, all the sexual stuff, all the flattery, the dancing, the weight stuff, like it's all custom, tailor-made. Personally, I think it will be a game time decision. Like I don't think you can right now make it decide actually. I agree. You'll know. By the way, another thing, I mean, this is more for the conversation afterwards, but just because he says it doesn't mean that's what it is. For example, him being like, it's the hardest, darkest time of my life. I just also, I do know a lot of people who've done really bad shit in the darkest moments of their life. And that is, whether it's manipulative or not, maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't. But that is also an option. Like it is, I mean, I don't know. I know he's obviously he's not a well person. The way he behaves in life is not normal. Yeah. Even still. Yeah. None of us thought this was how today was going to go. No, we did not. Okay. So what am I saying? Okay. He said, I don't have reliable Wi-Fi, so I don't know how well Zoom will work. We can try it or something else. will say, okay, it's important to us that this is face-to-face. Let's give it a try. We won't record the Zoom video. Here's the link. Here's the link. Great. And then see you at 3 PST. Thank you. What have you said? Love you! Thank you! Exclamation point. Are you okay with that? Oh, no, thank you. Yeah, we don't need the exclamation point for him. Okay. Am I doing it? Fuck yeah. Yes. Barf. And then, Monica, I'll record. I'm so glad you're in this with us, Monica. I don't think we would. Me too. Yeah. Me too, but. You're like our rock emotionally through this. We'll get on at like 2.30, Monica. Okay. Because I want to make sure my system set up to record his audio coming in but but then should I still record here He wrote back Okay, let's try it. See you at 3 PST, hopefully. Of course, hopefully. Oh, boy. I think this needs to feel as not intimidating as possible. And honestly, I know it's our one shot, but let's really go through all the questions, and it is what it is, the main thing is to find out who is this, why they did this, and what they were getting out of it, you know? Like, and if all of the questions I have ever had aren't answered, that's okay. Okay, so let's walk through our prep. Okay. Number one, we get on, Monica, how are we addressing, like, thank you so much for doing this. Right off the gate, we know this might be a little uncomfortable. We are working on a show that chronicles what happened to us and our show involving you back in 2016. But would you be okay with us recording audio? And if we were to use it, we will change your voice. And that kind of implies we're not using his name. Yeah, I think that that... What if he asks, like, are you going to name me in this? if he says i'm getting off unless you tell me that you're not using my name i think yeah we should say we're not going to use your name because look the truth is we're not going to use his name i don't think right if giving him that assurance is what gets you to be able to record or keep talking to him then you can say yes we will agree not to use your name if you allow us to record this. Yeah, I think it's smart to do that. Yeah, I think we need to see who it is. Like that is first and foremost, that's the big question. So we do need to find that out. And I am worried if we say we need to find another time where you have Wi-Fi, I think that we might be closing the door. I guess that's why we decided to do it today as opposed to waiting. I do think big advantage the sooner we do it better, right? So part of me He thinks we do play the card of if he can't get his camera on, we need to see you so we can confirm your identity. And if he's like, I can't do that, I think we can be like, then to be honest, we can't promise we're not going to use your name in this piece. Then I think we can say something like that. We do have the upper hand for him to I don't think he would risk us using his name in the piece. I think that you guys will figure it out. Like I kind of do, too. And I think I don't want to get too heady. I know. I'm just worried that I'm going to get too aggro and then you guys will be upset with me after the fact. Like, you blew it. Because my instinct is not just to be an asshole. It's more like I feel like we do have the upper hand that I feel like it's within our grasp to get what we want. That's why my instinct's like, well, if you don't do this, then sorry, the jig is up sort of. Yeah. Holding his feet to the flame, he might just be like, actually, let's just do this. Exactly. We'll see how it goes. Okay. Do we have all of our questions? I'm so nervous. Did you guys both get the Google Doc? Where'd you send it to? I put the link in our text. I don't see anything in our text chat. Oh, shoot. I sent it to him. You sent the questions to him? No, you did not. I'm joking. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I mean, look, I think we're going to get what we can get. And yeah, take the pressure off yourself. So you're prepared. Yeah, I think it's going to be great. It's fine. Okay, so we are back from our little lunch break. and we are on our computers. We are about to call the professor. How's everyone feeling? I'm so nervous. I said to Andy, I was like, if we're nervous, think about how he must be feeling. I know. I'm sure you're right. We curious to ask him if there were more characters than Beth and Tasha. You have that? Oh, I want to ask, were there more people? has he done this to more people yeah oh i definitely am curious about that yeah and how do we navigate bringing you on elizabeth how are you going to let us know if you want to come on or not i think i'll text you guys and um i think you should just say to him like hey i know we told you it's just gonna be us but elizabeth actually has a few questions she feels comfortable asking, would you be okay with that? I guess. Do we need to even ask him? There's a part of me that's like, Elizabeth wasn't going to be a part of this because it felt like it was a lot for her, but she's here and does have some questions. Yeah. I don't think we need to ask permission for that part. But it is later in, if Elizabeth wants to chat, right? It's not like you don't have to say that at the top of the thing, like just right. So he is under the assumption that he's not here. And that's like a real bad, bad feelings. I think I will do this. So I'll just let you know when it seems like things are kind of in a place where it would make sense. I'm going to take Andy's iPad outside. Okay. And log in from his account. So it's like a new person coming in and I'll just do audio. Okay. We got this. team this has been a long time coming yeah how crazy everyone get your faces ready I do a spit take when the camera comes on you know I just like when I was in our little break I was like what if it's the wife oh my god if it's the fucking wife we gotta be cool imagine it's my buddy josh after all oh god elizabeth you look like you're in witness protection i look what you look like you're in witness protection your background i did it on purpose because like the way it was set up there are pictures of our kids there and it's just on the off chance that there's an earthquake and i press the video button no it is smart okay i feel like maybe i should get off i feel like we're like waiting for the new year's ball to drop yeah well i don't know if that's the analogy for me i don't feel this nervous for that okay fine the new year's ball dropped in in 1999 there you go y2k yeah y2k situation make sure your camera's off elizabeth when you pop in like that again next time what if i have a heart attack because my cholesterol that'd be a twist too all right we're almost at showtime if he shows up on time. Make sure to text us, Elizabeth. We'll see him. Okay, deep breath, deep breath. Hey, can you see me now? We're going to be honest, we weren't expecting to see you. If you want to listen to all of Beth's Dead ad-free, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts or on Patreon, where you can also chat with other listeners, watch live streams, get bonus episodes, and more. That's at patreon.com slash Beth's Dead. Beth's Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman, and nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lame, and Monica Padman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music and sound by Andy Rosen.