Raising Boys & Girls

Episode 338: 5 Love Languages for Families with Dr. Gary Chapman

39 min
Jan 6, 20265 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

Dr. Gary Chapman, bestselling author of The Five Love Languages, discusses how parents can identify and speak their children's primary love language to build stronger emotional connections. The episode covers practical strategies for recognizing love language preferences, adapting communication across different developmental stages, and maintaining intentional family connection in the digital age.

Insights
  • Children's behavior reveals their primary love language—observing how they relate to others, what they request most, and what they complain about are reliable indicators of their emotional needs
  • Parents can learn to speak unfamiliar love languages through gradual, consistent practice even if they didn't experience them in childhood, transforming discomfort into natural family patterns over time
  • Filling a child's emotional love tank through their primary language directly impacts behavior compliance and reduces acting out, making discipline more effective when wrapped in expressions of love
  • Family rituals like shared meals without screens and consistent one-on-one time create lasting memories and establish communication patterns that persist into adulthood
  • The 18-year window before children leave home requires intentional investment in teaching life skills and building memories rather than assuming children will naturally develop resilience
Trends
Parental shame and perceived failure increasing as parents feel pressure to optimize child development across multiple domains simultaneouslyGrowing recognition that screen time moderation requires proactive family systems rather than reactive restrictions, especially for digital-native childrenShift toward understanding behavior problems as indicators of unmet emotional needs rather than discipline failuresIncreased interest in practical, evidence-based parenting frameworks that acknowledge parents' own childhood limitations without judgmentFamily connection strategies emphasizing quality time and intentional rituals as counterbalance to digital distraction and fragmented schedulesAdolescent communication requiring dialect shifts in love language expression rather than abandonment of emotional connection strategiesMulti-child parenting requiring differentiated rather than equal treatment to meet individual emotional needs effectively
Topics
Five Love Languages FrameworkIdentifying Children's Primary Love LanguageEmotional Love Tank ConceptPhysical Touch and Affection in ParentingWords of Affirmation StrategiesQuality Time and Undivided AttentionActs of Service and Life Skills TeachingGift-Giving as Love ExpressionAdolescent Love Language AdaptationScreen Time Management in FamiliesFamily Meal Time RitualsParental Apology and ModelingBuilding Family MemoriesDiscipline Within Love FrameworkDigital Age Family Connection
Companies
fivelovelanguages.com
Website offering love language assessments and resources for identifying children's and teenagers' primary love langu...
People
Dr. Gary Chapman
Guest expert discussing four decades of work helping families understand emotional connection through love languages ...
Sissy Goff
Co-host conducting interview and sharing application of Chapman's work in counseling practice
David Thomas
Co-host conducting interview and discussing parental challenges in digital age
Quotes
"The question is not, do you love your children? We love our children by nature. The question is, do your children feel loved?"
Dr. Gary Chapman
"If you don't speak their primary language, they will not feel loved even though you're loving them in some of the other languages."
Dr. Gary Chapman
"You are where you are. We can't change our history. But here's the good news. You can learn to speak any one of these languages as an adult, even if you did not know it as a child."
Dr. Gary Chapman
"We have 18 years before we're going to release them to a bigger world. So we want to think in terms of preparing our children to live in a world where we're not around."
Dr. Gary Chapman
"We're influenced by our childhood to be sure, but we're not controlled as adults. We can make decisions to change some things, become better parents and better people."
Dr. Gary Chapman
Full Transcript
Do you remember when we first started the podcast? I remember. We had microphones, big feelings, and absolutely no idea what we were doing. We laughed all the time about how it's a miracle tooth therapist who struggled to open a Google doc ever got a podcast off the ground. Starting something new is terrifying, and if I'd known then what I'd know now, I would have said, get a partner like Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US, from major household names to brands just getting started. They help you build a beautiful online store with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. They've got AI tools that help write product descriptions and enhance photos. You can create email and social campaigns like you've got a whole marketing team behind you. And best yet, everything lives in one place. Inventory, payments, analytics plus 24-7 support if you get stuck. So if you're sitting on a what if, maybe it's time. It's time to turn those what ifs into... with Shopify Today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash RBG. Go to Shopify.com slash RBG. That's Shopify.com slash RBG. Hey, friends. Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas. And we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Dr. Gary Chapman is the bestselling author, counselor, and speaker who has spent more than four decades helping families thrive. He's best known for the five love languages, a book that has sold over 20 million copies and transformed the way millions of couples, parents, and kids understand emotional connection. Dr. Chapman's work focuses on practical, hope-filled tools that strengthen relationships at every stage of life. We are so honored to welcome Dr. Gary Chapman to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. Well, Dr. Chapman, it is an honor to spend time with you. We have had so much respect and admiration for your work for so many years and it's a joy to get to spend time with you today in person. And we love to begin by asking in all your years of working with kids, families, and research, what do you believe kids need the most right now? Well, they got to have food and sleep, okay? Yes. Otherwise, then I'm going to make it. But I really feel like that meeting a child's emotional need for love is one of the most important things we can do for that child because that impacts everything else about the child and all their other relationships. And that's why I've given so much of my life and time dealing with this, how to effectively communicate love on an emotional level that meets the other person's need for love, and in this case, children. So I think, yeah, that's what I would say. Well, we are certainly so grateful and have both been changed and deeply impacted by your work and use it frequently in our counseling offices. So we're so grateful you devoted your life to this. You have done so much to help millions of people understand more about themselves and the people that they love in the five love languages. Will you talk about how you see these love languages uniquely showing up in children? Well, I think the love language concept and understanding helps parents be effective in communicating love. You know, I've often said to parents, the question is not, do you love your children? We love our children by nature. The question is, do your children feel loved? I remember a 13-year-old young man was in my office and had run away from home and in the context of our conversation, he said to me, my parents don't love me. They love my brother. They don't love me. I knew his parents. I knew they loved him. The problem is not that they did not love him. The problem was whatever they were doing to communicate love was not coming through to him emotionally. And so that's why I think the five love languages can be very, very helpful to parents because I really do believe that each child has what I call a primary love language. And if you don't speak their primary language, they will not feel loved even though you're loving them in some of the other languages. The other point, of course, I make very clear to parents is I'm not saying you only speak the primary love language. No, no, no. Heavy doses of the primary, but you want to speak the other four because we would like for that child to learn how to receive love and later give love in all five languages. That's the healthiest adult. And most of us did not receive all five growing up. So I just think the concept of the love languages will help parents be effective in doing what they're trying to do. And that is to communicate love to that child in a meaningful way. Dr. Chapman, for the one person listening who's not familiar with what the five are, will you just name them for us? Surely. One of them is words of affirmation, verbally affirming the child. One is acts of service, doing things for the child. When they're young, you're doing things that they cannot do for themselves. In fact, we are forced to speak this language the moment they're born. We put the food in, we take the food out. I mean, they can't do anything. As they get older, this language is also teaching them how to do things for themselves and then teaching them how to do things for others in the family. So acts of service. And then there's quality time. Giving them your undivided attention and what you're doing depends on the age of the child, of course, but they have your full attention, whatever you're doing, whether it's reading a story together or playing a game together or talking together, but they have your undivided attention. And then there's gifts. It's universal to give gifts as an expression of love. The gift says, they were thinking about me. Look what they got from me. And then there's physical touch, affirming physical touches. And we've long known the power of physical touch emotionally. That's why we pick up babies and hold them and kiss them and cuddle them long before the baby understands the meaning of the word love. The baby feels love by physical touch. So those are the five languages. And every child, as I said, has a primary love language. Okay. So for parents listening who are new to this concept, what would be the simplest way they could begin identifying their child's primary love language? Well, I'll give you three informal ways. One is observe their behavior. How do they typically relate to you? Because that's the clue. For example, well, I think you can actually figure out a child's primary love language by the time they're four years old by observing their behavior. For example, my son's love language is physical touch. When he was that age, when I would come home from work in the evening, he would run to the door, grab my legs and climb on me. He's touching me because he wants to be touched. So observing their, now our daughter never did that. At that age, she would say, Daddy, come into my room, I want to show you something. She won't equality time. She was asking for it. So observing their behavior, how they relate to you, how they relate to siblings, how they relate to grandparents and other people, because typically what they're doing to others is what they want to receive. So that's one clue. A second clue is, what do they request most often? Mommy, can we play? Can we play? They're asking you for equality time. They want your undivided attention. So what do they request most often? For example, my daughter, when she became a teenager, the most common thing she would ask is, Dad, can we take a walk after dinner? She's asking me for quality time. They're taking a walk with her. And then the third is, what do they complain about most often? The complaint reveals the love language. I had a mother say to me recently, she said, my six year old son said to me, we don't ever go to the park anymore since the baby came. He's telling her, quality time is my language. I used to have your full attention at the park together, just you and me, and I'm not getting it now. So if you put those three things together, you can pretty well figure out what a child's primary love language is. Now, they can also go online to the website, fivelovelanguages.com. And there is a, there's a poyos for teenagers that a teenager can take. But for younger children, there's also a series of questions that a parent can ask a child, now an older child, you know, that can read and so forth, can do it themselves, but ask them these questions and they make choices between two things. And it will also help you determine a child's love language. So I think with the informal and the poyos, you'll be able to figure out what their primary love language is. That's so helpful. Well, you mentioned teenagers and knowing that kids need to grow and evolve over time, how would you say the love language, love languages evolve or change over time as kids move from childhood to adolescence? Yeah, you know, I've had a lot of parents through the years say to me, you know, we read your book on the five love language of children and it was so helpful when they were younger. Now they're teenagers. It doesn't seem to be working. They asked me, does their love language change when they get to be teenagers? And typically I say, I don't think the love language changes, but you have to use new dialects of that language because what you have been doing, they consider childish now. So, you know, when they were little, you can say, you sweet little thing, I just love you to death. You say that to a teenager, they go, oh, come on, mama. Our physical touch, when they were eight years old and they were playing some kind of sport, you could go out there on the field with everybody watching and give them a hug. And if physical touch is their language, I mean, they ate it up. You try to hug them in front of a crowd now at school, they're going to push you away. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, do that. They still need physical touch. I think it's still their language if it was their language, but you have to give them hugs in private, not in front of other people. So I think, and that's where, you know, I later wrote the book, The Five Love Language of Teenagers, same five languages, but I talk about how you have to learn new dialects of what it was, how you were expressing it in the, when they were children. And that can be very helpful to parents if they have teenagers. When a family has multiple children with different love languages, obviously that can feel overwhelming. So what encouragement or practical guidance would you offer a parent trying to nurture each child well? Well, let's face it, if you have six children, you got a full time job. And that's why some parents say, wait a minute, I can't figure out all these kids love language at all. I say, I fully understand that. You often feel overwhelmed. You have so many children. We only had two, you know, my wife and I. I remember when she said to me, she told me before marriage that she wanted to have five boys because she grew up in a big family. But after we had, first of all, as a girl, we had a boy, a little while later, she said, you know, honey, I think maybe one of each is enough. But if you have, you know, four or six children or whatever, understanding the love language concept is really going to help you because it's going to let you invest the time you have in the best possible way. And also it will help you understand, I can't just treat each child the same way and think it's going to register with all of them. You know, maybe you're going to speak your love languages to them, give them all words of affirmation, you know, and you're giving words of affirmation. And if your eight year old says to somebody or says to you, you don't love me. You'll be shocked. Cause wait a minute, wait a minute. I've been doing, you know, I'm trying to be equal here and love everybody, you know, the same way. And no, no, you're not loving them the same way. You're doing the same routine, but some of them are getting it and others aren't getting it because that's not their language. So understanding the concept and determining their primary love language early on is going to help you invest your time in the most meaningful way to them. And now again, I'm saying, yes, speak the other four languages. I'm not just saying speak only their primary, but you got to give heavy doses of the primary if you want them to feel that. With Mother's Day coming up, we have both been thinking a lot about our moms. We both lost them in recent years and there are days we miss their voices more than we know how to say. There is something about hearing a laugh, a phrase they used to say, even just seeing the way they moved in a home video. Those details matter. And so many of those memories are still sitting in boxes somewhere. Old VHS tapes, camcorder tapes, photo albums, fading with time. That's where Legacy Box comes in. Legacy Box is the simplest and safest way to preserve your old home movies, photos and audio. You order a Legacy Box, pack up your tapes, film reels or pictures and send them in with their prepaid label. 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That's bowl and branch BOLLAND branch.com slash raising code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. It's so good. One of the things you talk about often that we love is keeping a child's love tank full. So for parents who are listening, how can they notice when a child's love tank may be running low and what should a parent do first when it is? Well, I use that concept because I think it's an easy concept. You know, in a car, if you have gas, if a gasoline tank is full, you can go a long ways. If it's not full, you're not going very far. And so I like to picture inside every child, there's an emotional love tank. And if it's full, you're going to see the best behavior of the child. If it's empty, you're going to see the worst behavior of the child. You can, you will see them more likely to, to disobey the guidelines or the rules that you've laid out for them. You're going to see them sometimes acting out and begging you or sometimes what I call pitching a fit. If they're little, we've all seen that in the grocery stores. All of those kind of behaviors are indicators that their love tank is full. And that's just the child's way of trying to get your attention. And so I think if a parent understands this, they'll be far more open to having a positive response to whatever behavior that they are observing that troubles them, because behind that behavior is a need inside them that's crying out for your attention. And so that is why I think we say to a child, maybe they're in some way disobedient or whatever. And you say to them, let's say words is their language. You say, you know, honey, I just want you to know, I am so proud of you because most of the time you obey the rules, but you know, this time you didn't. And so, you know what we have to do, right? So whatever you've already told them is going to be the consequences. You lead them to do the consequences. But then you say, but, but I want you to know, I'm so proud of you because you almost always obey the rules. You wrap the discipline in love and you're going to, you're going to have a child that's going to be far more obedient to the rules. So understanding the concept, I think will help a parent in terms of whatever behavior the child is showing that that troubles you. You ask yourself, first of all, have I spoken their language lately? They may need to fill up. Okay, building on that for parents and kids that have opposite love languages, how can families bridge some of that space in ways that feels, that feel natural and not forced? Yeah. Well, I think let's face it, there are many parents who grew up in a home where they did not receive all five love languages. Consequently, as adults, they don't feel comfortable speaking certain languages. I remember a father who said to me, he said, Dr. Chairman, my wife and I read your book on the five love languages of children. And we discovered that my 10 year old son's love languages, physical touch, he said, I hate to say this. I have never hugged my 10 year old son. And I don't know how. He said, I did not grow up in a touchy feely family. I don't ever remember my mother or father hugging me. I just don't remember it if they did. And I don't know how to do it. And I said to him, well, you are where you are. We can't change our history. Okay. But here's the good news. You can learn to speak any one of these languages as an adult, even if you did not know it as a child. I said, for example, come up here and stand beside me. We were in my office. I said, now, why don't you take your right hand and just pat me on the back? Not hard. Just a little tap. Okay. He said, really? I said, yeah. So he did. I said, that's your assignment this week. I want you to go home and I don't care where or when or what time of day. You just walk up to him and give him a little tap on the shoulder. I said, you can hit him and run if you want to. And the next week I said, okay, I said, did you do it? He said, yeah. I said, okay, now come up here. This time I want you to give me a little tap like that and then two little pats on the back. He said, you're serious. I said, yeah. So he did. I said, that's your assignment this week. So I just kept, you know, kind of easing it along. And I never forget the week that I said, okay, this is the week. Come up here and stand in front of me. I put my hands down beside me. I said, now give me a hug. He said, Dr. Chapman, really? I said, yeah, give me a hug. His arms were like lead, but he got them up there. And I waited for him to reach out and grab me and he didn't. So I reached out and grabbed him and pulled him in. And when I did, then he put his arms around me. I said, okay, man, you hug me. This is the week. You hug him. I said, I don't care if you hug him from the side or from the back or from the front. I don't care. But once this week, I want you to walk up to him and just grab him and hold him for a moment. He said, oh, man, I hope I can do this. I said, well, you just hug me. If you can hug me, you can hug him. Okay. And he come back and he had done it. I said, okay, now you did it once this week. Now this week, I want you to do it twice, two days. Then we just kind of worked our way up. Once he got to hug him once a day. I said, now, if you can hug him once a day, you can hug him twice a day. So I said, this week, before he goes to school, if you're home in the morning, I want you to give him a hug in the morning before he leaves. And then sometime later that night when you're home, give him another hug. And so he overcame it. He learned how to do it. But it is in the early days, it feels strange. Okay. And you feel like it's just kind of forced. Yeah, it is. If you're learning new language, new spoken language, you have to work at it. If it doesn't come natural for you. And so it's the same thing as with the love languages. So it will not come natural to start with. But the fact is, when you didn't receive it, you can't expect yourself for it to feel natural and normal to you. But if you see how important it is, you can learn to speak every one of these languages. I'm so grateful for how you describe that, Dr. Chapman, because we have a lot of people who have talked a lot about how in the last probably two to three years, we feel like parents feel more of a sense of failure and more shame around what they're not doing and what they don't know or what they feel like they're making, what they feel like they're blowing it in than ever before. And you did that with so much grace and so much humor. And I just would be curious, is there any further encouragement you would want to offer the parent who does feel like, I don't know, I feel awkward, I don't know how to get there. And I've been making huge mistakes in terms of trying to what it even looks like to let my kids or I just haven't even been doing it at all. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, depending on the age of the child, obviously, a conversation with the child about love and explaining to the child that, you know, they're basically five different ways that we love each other. And you probably have noticed sometimes that dad comes up and gives mom a hug. That's one way we express love is by physical touch. It can be a hug or it can be a pat on the back or a handshake or a high five. And that's one way. And you just kind of walk through the languages of love, explaining it to the child. And a young child, I mean, they don't have to be all that old, you know, five or six, they can get this concept. And so in our family, we'd want to use all five of these. But we also realize that one of them is more important to each of us. For example, mother's primary love language, what really makes me feel loved and you tell them what it is. And daddy's primary love language is and you tell them what daddy, you know, so that's a, so when you want to really love daddy, that's the way to do it. Okay. Want to really love mommy. That's the way to do it. And what we want to do is love you in the way that's most meaningful to you. So we're going to talk about which one that you think is most meaningful to you. So if the, if the whole family is as children, if they get that concept growing up, it's going to be much easier for all of you to talk about it and to, and to implement it, you know, and it will be a growing thing over a period of time, it'll become much more natural and normal in your family. And that's what we want. But it will take time because, you know, maybe you didn't grow up in a home where that happened. So it's going to take time and it will feel awkward. But that's, that's going to be true. If you, if you're going to be successful, we've got to make the effort to learn how to do something that might not feel real comfortable to us when we begin, but will become more comfortable as we go along. Thank you so much. Dr. Chapman, in this digital age, I think connection can feel harder than ever for families. So how can the love languages help families stay grounded, intentional and emotionally connected? Well, I do think that because almost everyone agrees, one of our deepest emotional needs is the need to feel loved by the significant people in our lives. And I think as parents, we have to keep that on the front burner of our minds. And, and there's no question about it. The digital age is here and it's here to stay. But we do have some control over how it's used with our children. And I think if we start young, it's easier, but you can start in the middle of the flow of life. So, you know, I just think we're spending so much time looking at our screens that we're not looking at each other very much. So I want us to talk about this and we're going to, we're going to try some new things here. And we're not going to all be looking at our screens, sitting around looking at our screens all the time. We're going to have some, sometimes you can do that and sometimes when we can't do that. And so let's, let's talk about how this might look, what this might look like. And depending on the age of the children, you bring them into the conversation. Now, if they're little, of course, you're telling them, mom and dad have talked about this and here's what we're going to start doing. And so you tell them, you know, what, what, what, when's going to be a screen time and what you can look at on the screen and when are going to be non-screen times. You know, back when we were raising kids, of course, it was only television. It was easy. So we had four programs that our kids could watch two of them, two of them each week. And so they could choose, give them a little choice. But, but now they knew what they could look, look at, they could choose the two that particular week, but there was only two. Okay. So much easier then, much more difficult now, no question about it, much more difficult now. And especially when we start them off with screens and I see this and you see this all the time in the airports here, the kid is, I mean, they must be less than one year old. They got this screen in front of them. And they're growing up with, this is what life is all about. Oh man. And it's going to be much more difficult to, to have some balance in the use of screens if we don't start it earlier in the, in their life. And I understand why parents do it because they're watching the screen. They're not crying or yelling on the airplane, you know, I understand why. I'm not so sure that's the thing we ought to be doing for them with that at early age, but at any rate, obviously every parent has to grapple with this in our, in our age and how you're going to handle that. But I think there has to be some moderation of the use of screens. You know, there are some organizations you just trust because you know the people behind them. That's how we feel about men. We have trusted the folks at Menno for years. Our dear friends, Jess and Denise work there and we've seen firsthand how deeply they care about helping kids know and love Jesus. This isn't just a streaming platform. It's a mission. Menno helps kids and families experience Jesus every day on and off screens. It's the number one source of Christian content for kids. And it makes it super easy and honestly super fun for families to grow and faith together. 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You'll actually use head to quints.com slash RBG for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash RBG for free shipping and 365 day returns quints.com slash RBG. Well, Dr. Chapman, you have talked for decades about the power of small, consistent acts of love. What are some daily or weekly rhythms that families could start now that can help strengthen connection? You know, one of them, I think, is having a meal time together every day. If it's at all possible. Now, I know sometimes there are parents that work out of town two or three days a week, they're gone and you can't do it. But with the rest of the family, if the mom's left at home or just the daddy at home, you can you can have a meal time with it. And at that meal time, the TV is off. We're not looking at computers. We're not responding to our phone calls. This is the time when we eat and when we talk to each other and have some form on what we're talking about. For example, to say one of the things we're going to do every night is we're going to have everybody gets a chance to tell one thing that they did today that they really enjoyed doing. So daddy used to tell something while we get to tell something and never tell that their stage, they get to tell something they enjoyed today. And then we can have another question would be, okay, now let's just tell something that was really hard for us today. Each of us something that was really hard for us. So everybody gets to share that. And what we're doing is we're building something into our family, a trait into our family that we talk about things in our family. We did this and I would bring bringing up our kids and it went all the way through. You know, even when they came to college, they'd come back and bring friends. We'd still sit around the table every night with their friends. We'd do the same thing. And their friends would say to them, your family do that every night. I never, never had so much talking around a table. But our kids say that was one of the most meaningful things we remember is we always talk. And I shared life with each other, you know, so that's, that's one thing. And that's what also is in that context. You can talk about the love languages, you know, all kinds of things you can talk about. Another thing I think would be very, very helpful for families and building a sense of unity in the family is that there is to have a devotional time with the whole family every night. When you just got one child, you know, you could have a family. One child, you know, you can read a little simple Bible story to them, you know, even when they don't understand the words yet, you can still do it. And then, and then hold them. And, and yeah, and you have priority. Yeah. As they get older, of course, you can, you, you, you up the granny in terms of what you're reading, uh, you know, but there's, there's lots of material out there to help you with that. And then what my wife and I, of course, as I said, we only had two children. What we would do then every night, uh, one of us would take one child to their bed and get on our knees beside the bed and pray with them. And the next night we'd switch, switch children. And, uh, and then as they get older, of course, not only would we play, but we let them pray, you know, as they get old enough to pray. And again, our children say, man, we, we just have that memory. Uh, that was just so meaningful to us. So those are, those are a couple of the things or two or three of the things that I really think if you can work it into the fabric of this is, this is our family, this is, this is how we live at our family. This is what we do at our family, which setting them up for some pretty good success when they get to be parents somewhere down the line. Yes. Thank you for those. As you look ahead, what gives you hope about today's generation of kids and families, the parents who are raising them and what encouragement would you want every parent listening to hear today? Well, I would want to say to parents, remember that we have 18 years before we're going to release them to a bigger world. So we want to think in terms of preparing our children to live in a world where we're not around. And if you, if you have that concept, uh, you can be thinking and asking yourself, what do I want them to know how to do by the time they're 18? And it's a good to be a little older. You can actually let the children ask you put in, let your teenagers tell you what they'd like to learn how to do before they get to be 18. And some young men say, I'd like to learn how to take off a tire and put it back on. If I, in case I have a flat, okay, well, let's, we'll work on that. But they'll have ideas of what they'd like to learn. Uh, and then you have ideas of what you'd like for them to learn. So I think having that in your mind that we have a limited time, I know 18 years seems like a long time when they're little babies, but on the other side and looking back, that wasn't very long at all. But I think realizing that helps a parent think about what, what, where do we need to be investing our time? And the other thing I would say is seek to build memories with your children. Memories and things that, you know, they have an interest in. If it's fishing, uh, then go fishing, you know, with the children, like to go fishing. If it's taking a hike, take a hike with the children that like to take a hike. Uh, but do things that will, will build memories in their mind. I remember when our son was a teenager, we would take two days every summer, he and I, and just go do something together, just the two of us. And then when they were younger, uh, I would take my daughter out for breakfast, uh, once a month and then take him out for breakfast once a month. Other than that, we were eating at home, you know, but, but, and just, just that individual time with the children. So building memories, I have great hopes for, for the children of this generation. I know we're living in a world that's, you know, really in many ways difficult. And there's so many messages and people yelling at them and all this sort of stuff going on in the culture. But if we can make our home a place where they know, as they get older, they can come to us and ask questions, uh, that we're going to be there for them, that we love them, you know, and, and, and that's why we do what we do. And if they're asking for things, for example, that we don't think they're ready for, we say, you know, honey, I love you too much to do that right now. I'm going to do it because it's something that would be helpful to you. But I think not, not at this stage. It, we had to wait a little while on that one, uh, cause I love you too much to give you something I don't think was good for you. You know, that's, that's what, that's the way God treats us. He doesn't give us everything we ask for. I'm really glad about that. If, if he'd give me what the first girl I asked him for, Oh God, I want to marry this girl, I'd have missed out on my wife. Woo. He loves us too much to do everything we ask for. And we have to keep that in mind also. So I just think there's a lot of hope for parents. And that's why I encourage parents to, you know, read a book on, on parenting with different stages, you know, and, and, and, and if there's a group in your church, if there's a class that's offered in your church on parenting, takes the class, you know, go to it. And, and, and there, there are podcasts like yours that would be very helpful. You know, so if you, if you know, there's a good podcast, plug into it on a regular basis, keep learning, uh, because we, we don't want to feel like as parents, we've got, we've got it all together. We are in process too. So let's be learning, uh, as we move along. And, and if we do really, I think we fail somewhere, you know, apologize. I've had parents say, but if I apologize to a child, won't they lose respect for me? I said, no, no, no, they gain respect. They already know what you did was wrong. You know, you just say, listen, mommy lost her temper. Her daddy lost his temper and yelled at you. And her father should never yell at the child. That's not kind. And that's not loving. And I'm asking you to forgive me. Okay. So we're teaching them how to apologize when we apologize and they'll, they'll forgive you. You don't have to worry about, they'll forgive you, you know, and then later on, you'll have them apologizing to you because they've seen you apologize. So they learn by our model as well as what we verbally teach them. Yes. Thank you so much, Dr. Chapman. Thank you for this time. Thank you for your lifetime of work in these spaces and helping families grow together and understanding and love each other better. We just are so grateful. Well, thank you. And I'm glad and encouraged by what you guys are doing. I mean, you know, when you're helping parents in whatever way, you keep, keep going, we need people like you. And the counseling, of course, as you know, because some people need individual counseling because of things that have happened in their lives and much of it is because of things that happen in their childhood that, that, you know, cause things that they have to deal with now as an adult. So, and if you happen to be an adult and you're going through things, you know, impacting from your past culture, reach out for counseling, you know, read that that's what counselors are all about. And you can get help. You don't have to stay stuck. You know, we're influenced by our childhood to be sure, but we're not controlled as adults. We can make decisions to change some things, become better parents and better people. So thanks for what you're doing. No, that is good news. Good reminder. Thank you. It's a joy to spend time with you. Thank you. Thank you. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris Sterrett, our engineer, our management team at KCH. And we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always. What a scream. We installed telephone wires across rural Britain over a century ago, and you're still paying to use them for your broadband today. If it ain't broke, what? Stop. Your days of selling phone age broadband are over. Blast. I've spilled the beans. Upgrade to 100% full fiber. Gigaclear, faster broadband for rural Britain from only 19 pounds a month. Price may rise during contract. T's and C's apply. Check availability at gigaclear.com.