EP: 414 The Sixth Day: Creation, the Fall and the Crucifixion with Rabbi Jason Sobel

Hey Sainsbury's, have you got anything to help me save on my lot's dinners this week? Well, we're always matching and lowering prices. So hundreds of Sainsbury's fresh fruit, veg and everyday products are price matched to Aldi. And every week with Nectar you can save money on thousands of the products your family loves. So we can help you plan your dinner and your budget. Sainsbury's, good food for all of us. Selected products, Aldi price match not in Ni. Nectar prices require Nectar account. Why was there a veil in the temple? You have to understand what the tabernacle in the temple represents. The tabernacle was a portable garden of Eden. Is a return to the garden of Eden. God's presence is now among the people, but the people aren't holy. So there has to be a barrier, a separation between God and the people, or God will judge the people because of his holiness can't be in the unholiness. And so God creates a house and he creates a barrier. And the last barrier is a veil. And on that veil are cherubim, the cherubim that guarded the way to the garden of Eden that prevented the people from going in. Where cherubim flaming angelic look like fiery swords that prevented people. The same thing was on the veil. So when the veil in written two is like, okay, Eden is open again. Connection is restored. You're not barred. You're not in exile. I'm welcoming you into my presence to reestablish relationship like I walk with Adam and Eve in the garden. But even more intimately, I'm not just going to walk among you. I'm going to live in you. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to journey. The Smithsonian, and if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right, it must be the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen cherubim. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, welcome back to Blurry Creatures. We're going to go right into this one. Annie Downs and Troy Brewer gave us the green light for you to come on. Instead of chat, hey, don't forget about chat. Oh, chat is well. Chat told us, like, oh, you don't need to talk to you. Yeah. Rabbi Jason Stowe, we got to talk to him. Former Footlocker, referee. Former referee. Yeah. And now Messianic Rabbi, author, and just we're excited to get to know you. Rabbi Jason Stowe in the house in the Blurry basement. Welcome. Come on, it's great to be with you guys. Thanks for having me. We're excited. We kick off every episode. We don't have a lot of time today. But what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? What do you think about him? And then we'll get into it. Hey, man, I'm all for Bigfoot, man. I think he's out there somewhere. I don't know. I grew up a big, big interest in Bigfoot when I was a little kid. Really? Loved it. What do you think? Loved it. I think, who knows, maybe he's related to the Nephilim. I don't know. He's something. Oh, that's for him. He's something. Interdimensional being? I don't know. You're so far ahead of most far-aggress. I love it. Tell us about your story, though. What's your background, your testimony, and how does it hop in? How does a rabbi come to know Jesus? How does a rabbi know about the Nephilim? That's what I'm saying. Well, it's in the Torah, but it's an interest. God has a good sense of humor. I grew up in a Jewish family in the Holy Land, New Jersey, where there are more Jews than in Jerusalem. Grew up going to Hebrew school, Bar Mitzvahd, lost most of my family during the Holocaust, so being Jewish was something that was really important. But became a hip-hop DJ. I was working in a large recording studio in New York City with a lot of famous hip-hop artists. And as I looked at the lives of all these famous people, I said to myself, there has to be more to life than just this. I began a spiritual journey, started to study with my traditional rabbi, but also got into martial arts, and through that meditation, and one day I was meditating, and my soul began to vibrate, and it left my body, went through the ceiling, through the clouds, and the next thing I know was standing in heaven, and there was this king high and lifted up in this glorious light, and I felt the power of God pulsate through every cell of my body. It's an indescribable experience. He told me I was called to serve him, and I knew that king was Jesus. I knew nothing about Jesus. No one ever shared with me about Jesus, but I knew that was Jesus. Next thing I know was down in my body going, I'm called to serve him, and I'm running around my house, and my mom's like, you're called to serve. You're called to serve. Who were Jewish for goodness sakes? But I didn't come to faith at that moment, because again, I never heard anyone share with me about him, and literally, I thought Jesus was a nice Jewish kid who converted and became Roman Catholic, because I didn't know any Jewish kids by the name of Jesus, mothers by the name of Mary, because Hebrew is Miriam, and just like I'm Jason Sobel, I literally thought Christ was his last name. I was like, the Christ family? Yeah, they're a very nice family, the Christ family. Mr. and Mrs. Christ, great people. I had no idea that Christ was the Greek for Christos, which is the Greek for the Hebrew Messiah or Mashiach, anointed one. No idea. My best friend comes of faith. He said, Jason, could you tell the difference between the Old and the New Testament? I said, sure. He read me this passage. He was bruised for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. By his stripes were healed. He said, is that the Old and the New? I said, is clearly the New Testament. He said, no, that's Isaiah 53, the Hebrew prophet. Speaking 700 years before Jesus walked the face of the earth, I began to be provoked to jealousy. He invited me this messianic congregation. At the end of the evening, they dimmed the lights, prayed. I figured I needed all help I can get. So I prayed. He said, if you prayed for the first time this prayer, raise your hand. I raised my hand. I said, if you raise your hand, you've just been born again. I said, I don't know what it means for a Jewish kid to be born again. I gave my mother enough trouble when I was born once. I'm not getting born again. But they said, we saw you raise your hand. You have to stand up. I realized we're not going anywhere until I stood up. They gave me the first New Testament I'd ever seen. Took it home, read it, blown away how Jewish it was. Jesus celebrated the Jewish holidays, all the messianic prophecies. But the thing that really impacted me was that what Jesus said to me in that encounter in heaven was a verse from the New Testament, which I'd never read. Never even seen a New Testament. And I was like, okay, he's the Messiah. Believe in him. He begins to transform my life. One week later, I had a friend who was in the hospital homeless. Went to see him. He was going to have to have his legs amputated from frostbite. I prayed for him. I said, silver and gold have I known, but having the name of Jesus rise, take up your bed and walk. I read the book of Acts just before he got healed. He came to faith and he walked out of the hospital a week later. And that began my spiritual journey. Wow. Do you not love that? You know what, Jason, it's so cool to hear. What an intro. I mean, very blurry. But the zeal of... This is what's impressed on me when we talk to folks on the show sometimes. The zeal people that are freshly converted, they want to go out and just... They believe they can go out and do the things in Acts and they do them. I think about some people we've had in the show that were like, radically saved and they're like, I want to go do deliverance. I want to go pray for people to be healed. And there's something like really amazing about that because I think people that grew up in church, like Nate and I, at some point along the way, I don't know what happens. It kind of gets eroded. You're like, you believe that stuff, but maybe that was for a different time. Not saying that doesn't happen because we're not cessations or anything, but like... You know, I had to have an experience myself in Southeast Asia when I was 23, 24, with Wyam. I'm talking about on the show before, but like... Where I saw God, right after He healed people and I was like, man, dude, he's still in this business. I know he's in the business. I knew he has been in the business. He's still in the business. That's just inspiring. It's inspiring. How does your family react to you having a conversion? So I come to faith in Jesus. His Hebrew name is Yeshua. And so I hide the Bible in my bedroom because God forbid my parents should find it. Of course, I should have realized you can't hide anything from your mom. That's the truth. I just turned 20 at the time. She finds the Bible, confronts me, go meet with the rabbi, you've joined a cult. So I get my Tanakh, my Jewish version of the Old Testament, start reading all the Messianic prophecies, highlighting them to make my case, met with the rabbi. That really began my passion for connecting the old and the new, which is what we do in our books and my work with the chosen TV series as a spiritual advisor. And that's kind of like a passion. But as they saw that my faith in Jesus didn't make me less Jewish, it actually made me more Jewish because Jesus celebrated all the Jewish holidays. All these things pointed to him. All these things find their fulfillment in him. And when we understand these connections between the old and the new, I like to describe it kind of like this. One year before the Super Bowl, I went out and bought a high definition television. And everyone's like, it's going to change the way you see the game. I'm so excited. I'm watching the game. I'm like, I don't know what everyone's talking about. It's like a bunch of hype. It's not that great. And then at the end of the game, I'm bored. I'm flipping through the channels and I have a realization. The higher channels are the high definition channels. I watched the whole game and standard definition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I remember that. Right. So I feel like a lot of times people read the Bible in standard definition and it goes to high definition when we understand the deeper connections in the scripture between the old and the new or with the supernatural like you guys do here on Blurring Creatures. Right? Yeah. Hello. Hey, Luke. How you doing? Doing great. Actually, I can hear you loud and clear. I know. Must be my mid-mobile service. That's right. Back in the day, cell phone service was, you had a bag and it was $1,000 a month just to have a cell phone. It was real hard to get out of your car. That's for sure. And I don't know about you, but when it comes to my cell phone, I don't like to overpay. And unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers, they like you to overpay, Nate. They do. Somewhere along the way, cell phones just got expensive, but not anymore. Mid-mobile is here to save that. For only 15 bucks a month, you get everything you can from the big guys. As you said, 15 bucks a month, all plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talks and texts delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You bring your own phone number, activate with e7 minutes, start saving immediately. No long-term contracts, no hassle. So you can ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mid-Mobile for 15 bucks a month. You know who did this recently? Who? DJB. If you've listened to Dr. Jed Burton on our show, you know, he's calling in right from his phone. He's done his interviews right from his phone these days. And he's using Mid-Mobile. If you like money, Mid-Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, five gigabyte plan required. A clue into $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees, extra C-Mint Mobile for details. You were wondering why everything's so expensive now. Back in the 80s, things were cheap, but they were also high quality. Luke feels like we're in the matrix now. Everything's so expensive and it's not even high quality. What do we do? The answer we found here Nate is quins. Yeah. We've been talking about quins for a long time, right? They make high quality, everyday essentials, using premium materials like 100% linen, Reno wool, cashmere. Nice towels, upgraded bedding, legit wardrobe staples. And the best part is that their prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands because they cut out the middlemen. They work with ethical factories. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And everything's designed to last and make getting dressed easy. And hey, we're heading to the spring, which means it's time for you to refresh in the old wardrobe. And you know, I know for me, I got some new t-shirts. I got the Flonet Breeze Performance T. I have the Flonet sweatshirt. So if it gets cool, it's Tennessee here, man. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's cool. They've got us covered. Actually got stuff for my kids as well. They've got matching Flonet hoodies. I just love everything they do. It's high quality. It washes well. It wears well. And I'm excited to make a new order here. I've got some more t-shirts, some shorts. It's starting to get warm here. So refresh your wardrobe with quins. Go to quins.com. Slash blurry for free shipping at 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, all the way up there with Gary Wayne. Go to quins.com. Q-U-I-N-C-E. Dot com slash blurry for free shipping at 365 day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. Yeah, the high death version. That's it. We didn't have that in the 80s though. We did not. We had something like this. We said the two in the fuzz and you had to hit it. Couple times. Grab it here. You got to move them. I was the remote for my grandparents. Remember that. They were like, go change the channel. 12. You know, and then you had the cable box that was actually wired into the cable. Oh, I know. Right. You had to hit the button. That was funny. You guys are going to love this. So like you shared my first job was in Foot Locker. Yeah. And so a number of years ago when my kids were younger, we were in Foot Locker and they have this sign in Foot Locker. And in the sign, it's like for these retro Jordans. And they're like a yellow and black. And there's a checkered taxi cab. And then there's a yellow and black box in it. And my kids are like, looking at it like, what is that box? What could that be? They can't figure it out. I'm just laughing like kids. That's called a walk man. We used to have these things called cassettes. They used to have a cable. I figured it out. Yeah. Then we went to Discmans and you put those into your tape deck in the car. Yeah. But you have a new book, Transform by the Messiah. Yes. Is that out or is it coming out? It's out. All right. Let's go. Why did you want to write this book? What was the participant behind this? Yeah. Yeah. It's called Transform by the Messiah, How the Old and New Testament Jesus Connection Reveals God's Intentional Story for Your Life. And part of our passion behind it is that when you understand how intentional God is, how every detail mentioned in the Bible has a reason and communicates something of significance, then you begin to realize in the same way God is involved in every detail of our life. There's nothing wasted. There's nothing extra. It's all there for a reason. And I think that generates a hope in our life and it helps us to fall more in love with the Word of God, more in love with Jesus as we understand his story from its original biblical, historical context. I tell a story in the opening of the book how when we were young, every year we take a road trip from New Jersey to Florida back in the day in our big old woody station wagon. You have to wear seatbelts. There were no laws, child safety laws. You just play in the back of the car. You bring your toys, right? And we had no iPads or iPhones or Game Boys. So my parents gave me activity books. And one of my favorite things in the activity books was the Connect the Dots. And there was something so satisfying when you saw the picture come into focus after you connected the dots. And this book is about connecting the dots. And so you see the picture, full picture. And it's kind of what we do with our work with the chosen. This is on the life of Jesus beginning with his birth, his ministry, his death, resurrection from beginning to end. And it's tracking with the chosen. And what I do as a spiritual advisor on the chosen. What do you feel like is some of the main dots in the connection? Because I know there's always like, there's a lot. What are some that really kind of move you emotionally? Yeah. You see. Yeah. I think one of the foundational ones is, you know, we're coming into this season of celebrating death and resurrection, of Jesus, of Easter, of Passover. And a lot of times Christians don't even ask the question, right? The symbol of Christianity is the what? Cross. Cross. But why did Jesus have to dine across? Like what's the deeper significance of that? Well, think about it for a moment. How did sin enter the world? The first man and woman took from the tree. So God put back on the tree for you and me, Jesus, to undo what the first man and woman did and couldn't redeem or fix. Why are his hands pierced? Because our hands took from the tree. So his hands were pierced. Why is his side pierced? Because who was it that led Adam into temptation? It was Eve and she was taken from the what? Side. That was right. So he's not only making a toman for Adam. Paul calls him the last Adam, but he's making a toman for Eve, the one taken from the side. And on a deeper level, he's birthing the new bride, the church, just like Eve is taken from the side. The church is going to be taken birth from his side that is pierced with the spear. Why does he have his feet nailed to a cross? Because what's the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible? Genesis 3.15. What does it say? So the crush had the serpent, but it struck the heel. Yeah, the seat of the woman would crush the head of the serpent and the godly seed would, and Satan would bruise the head of the seed of the one. Right? So Satan's like, you think you're going to crush my head? He's the original gangster. He's the OG. He's like, I'm going to nail your feet to the tree and let's see how you're going to defeat me. He's mocking the plan and the promises of God. He thinks he's foiling it. He doesn't realize he's actually fulfilling it by nailing Jesus' feet to the tree, the beginning of the fulfillment of Genesis 3.15. Then he has a crown of thorns on his head. Why a crown of thorns? Well, what's the physical sign of the curse of creation? The ground would produce what? Thorns and thistles. He's literally taking the curse of creation on his head to break the curse and to restore God's blessing for us. Wow. Our symbolism is wild when you break it down like that. It's like, we say this about the Bible sometimes. You can't write it any better. It touches every single piece. It's like if you were writing a... But you were saying... If you were trying to piece this together as a person, I just don't know how you do that. You can't make all these things happen simultaneously. But you were saying you were trying to make your case to your rabbi about that being an enzekiel, right? Beginning in Genesis and walking through the Bible. Listen. So, the rabbis say this about the scripture. It says they say everything in the Bible, everything in the Old Testament, everything was written for the sake of the Messiah. So, in one way or another, everything in the Old ultimately points to Jesus in the New. This is the road to Emmaus. After his death, two of his disciples discouraged, dejected. They think, well, we thought he was the Messiah. He's crucified, buried. He's not. He appears to them in hiding. They can't recognize him. And he begins to open the Torah, the writing, the prophets show how they all point to him, breaks bread, their eyes open, and they realize it was him and they said, our hearts not burned within us. Like he walked them through from all the Bible and showed how it points to him. Everything points to him. They all find this fulfillment in him. What about in the Old Testament specifically, like more of those like deeper clues? Obviously, we go Genesis to the Calvary. There's all these other Old Testament, you know, mic drops that we miss along the way. Yeah, 100%. Oh my God. How granular do you think it is? I just love it because I think it helps us understand that the Bible is a different type of truth. It's a truth that keeps repeating. You and I are living a biblical story right now in the way that God is interacting with us. It's like you could, but you can take this story and relate it to a previous story. So it's a truth. It's like revelation keeps revealing. Let's start at the start. So the very first word of the Bible in Hebrew, Barasheet, we read it in English, we translate it in English as the beginning. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, but there's another way to read it. Barasheet can be read not in the beginning, but bait is a preposition in Hebrew, which can mean inner through. And Raysheet means the first or firstborn. So it can be read on account of the firstborn, God created the heavens and the earth. What does that mean on the account of the firstborn? When the rabbis read that passage, they read it like, one way they read it is like this, God only created the world on account of the Messiah. Why? Because before the sickness ever came into the world, God had to make sure there was a cure. He wouldn't have created unless there was a cure for the death and destruction. So there's a Jewish tradition that God comes to the Messiah and he says, I'm only going to create the world if you're willing to suffer and die to redeem it. And Messiah agrees to it. And therefore God creates the world. And this is the idea behind what John says in the book of Revelation. He's the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Before the world was created, the Messiah agreed, Jesus agreed to die for the world before it was ever created. It's in the very first word of Genesis chapter one, verse one, or on account of, or can be read in agency through the firstborn God created that. And this is John one, all things were made through him. Everything that has been made by him. John is reading it like a rabbi. Another way can be read in Hebrew. Take it even more granular. The first letter of Genesis in Hebrew is the letter of Bate, the Buh, a beginning. The last letter of the book of Revelation, the last word is the word Amen in the book of Revelation, right? The last letter is the letter N. The first letter is B, Bate. The last letter is N, it's Nun. The first and last letter of the Bible spell Ben, Son. From the first letter to the last letter, it all points to the Son. From the beginning to the end. You know, and creative people make films, you're working on the chosen, and you love to tell a story, the beginning is the end. You love that. The opening scene is usually the way the movie ends. If you're a great filmmaker. Yeah. And subversion, as we talked about with Doug Van Dorn, is taking captive of a story that's true. And I think the thing about the Bible that's so interesting is that, you know, there's these same hero villain stories that repeat just on a human family dynamic, and then play out in the cosmic realm as well. They also relate to what's going on in heaven and on earth. And it seems like there's almost four dimensions of stories happening at the same time. How do you feel like the family dynamics, you're talking about this a little bit in the beginning, like, or off-era, family plays into the story of the Messiah, because obviously it's God's Son. And I think that this is a big debate in, you know, Jewish culture of why do you think they can't see Jesus as Jesus a lot? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're talking about this off-air, which is that everything on earth is a reflection of what's in heaven. Yeah. Right. That's why Jesus prays, your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. So what's in heaven is meant ultimately to be manifested in this world below. So just like earth has a, just like we have governments here, heaven has a government, and that government is family. And so that's why Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Now, the question that you're asking is, it's a great question. Why don't Jewish people, why can't they see that he is the Messiah? And I think there's three overarching principles that we need to understand. Number one is, unfortunately, Jewish people have been persecuted in the name of Jesus from early church times to the present in some form or fashion. And during the Holocaust, as the trains were, as my family was being deported to the concentration camps, oftentimes the church on Sunday morning would sing louder to drown out the tears of the people. Right. So yes, there were believers like Bonhoeffer and Nemoller and Corey Tamboon, but the church was infiltrated and things that Martin Luther had said about the Jews were used against the Jews, but it goes back even earlier in that. So Jews are like, how can we believe in a Messiah in whose name we're persecuted? If he claims to be the king of the Jews, and if Christians hate Jews or antagonistic towards Jews, how can he be a fulfillment of the promises that were originally made to us? Right. So that's one issue with it. I didn't think about that. Right. Right. Another issue with that is the fact that historically when Jews believed in Jesus, they were told you could no longer be Jewish. So it was if you wanted to believe in Jesus and be Jewish and you wanted to keep the Passover or do anything that was cultural or from Jewish life, you were called a Judaizer and you were excommunicated from the church, which is so odd because the first theological debate acts chapter 15 was did Gentiles have to convert to Judaism, be circumcised, keep the law? And the answer is no, Gentiles come as Gentiles. They don't have to do all these Jewish things, but then the church turns it around where the church becomes partakers of the promises, eventually they become overtakers. Right. And they turn around to do the very thing that wasn't done to them, which is saying, if you're a Jewish person, you believe you can't be Jewish anymore. And so Jews are like, how can we believe he's the Jewish Messiah? If he tells us as Jews, we should give up everything of what God said to us. It means to maintain our covenantal identity and to fulfill our covenantal call and being covenantally faithful to the things God has did. So that becomes another issue or another way to say it is like the picture of Joseph in the Bible is a story of the end times and is a story, it is a picture of Jesus. Right. Joseph rejected by his brothers, sold for silver, sold by Judah. In the New Testament, it's Judas, which is a Greek version of Judah. So, both sold by Judah, stripped of his tunic, thrown into a pit, falsely accused, gets elevated to the right hand of the father of Egypt, the Pharaoh, seated at the right hand of the Pharaoh. The brothers don't recognize him. The first time they come down to Egypt, they only recognize him the second time they come down to Egypt. And they don't recognize him the first time. Why? Because he walks like, remember the Bengals, walk like in Egypt. He walks like an Egyptian. He talks like an Egyptian. He's unrecognizable to them as their Jewish brother, Joseph. And it's not until he takes off the Egyptian garments and speaks to them and he says, Anioseph, I'm your brother Joseph. This is our brother Joseph, revelation, recognition. In a sense, we've made Jesus into an Egyptian. He's unrecognizable to Jewish people. A blonde-haired, blue-eyed, European-looking Jesus who eats ham and who, I don't know how the Passover land became the Easter ham, Mr. El asked when I get to heaven, right? Yeah, yeah. Didn't celebrate. There was no Christmas. There was no Easter. And he celebrated Passover. So it's not that Anioseph things are wrong or bad. It's great. It's fine. But it's not historically what he did or the disciples did. Yeah, yeah. All right. Before we dive back into the weirdness, we want to talk about something that's been a game changer for us. And that's our new partner. Yeah. I've been using this stuff, Nate, and it's incredible. We hear a lot from listeners who are tired of all the chemical-filled products out there, and they want clean, natural, ancestral solutions. And that's the heart of the No More story. Exactly. No More was started by people who were fed up with the industrial complex of skincare, and they went back to time-testing ingredients, organic grass-fed tallow, which is rendered beef fat. And it sounds old school, but there's a reason it's making a comeback. And it's because it actually works. You've got to try No More. They use organic grass-fed tallow. It's high quality, pure, and incredibly clean. It generally has no strong odor. It rubs right into the skin and provides a deep, long-lasting moisture and healing. And listen, they don't just do skincare. They do all sorts of things. And a product we like to highlight is a tooth powder. It's fluoride-free, made from things like bentonite clay, activated charcoal, leaves your mouth feeling genuinely clean. It actually remineralizes and restores your teeth. It's this focus on traditional, natural ingredients that makes this partnership with No More such a perfect fit for us here at Blurry Creatures. We're all about exploring what's been forgotten, uncovering powerful truths outside the mainstream narrative, and No More tallow is a perfect example of that in the health and wellness space. So ditch those chemicals and get back to what nature intended. Head over to BlurryCreatures.com and we even got a Blurry-branded organic tallow bombs and it's amazing tooth powder right there on our site. Check out a company that aligns with our mission, BlurryCreatures.com. Check out No More. So we've made Jesus, in a sense, we put all this cultural westernized veneer over him to the point that Jewish people look at it as another religion and something completely foreign, as opposed to the fulfillment of the promises that are made. Do you feel like the prodigal son could be a little bit of a version of that, the older brother? Is like, has a little more familiarity with the story and the house? Well, yeah, I think that's why he tells the story. So I think in the parable of the prodigal son, first of all, it's a bad name. It's a terrible name for the parable because really it should be called either the merciful father because really one focuses on the father. But the end of the story is not on the prodigal son because the prodigal son represents the Gentiles. It represents the one who's with the pigs in the foreign land that comes home and is accepted. The older brother represents the Jewish people, that should have known him, the one that was close to the father all along and yet doesn't get him. It's the religious person in general and in that context, it's the Jewish people in the context of him telling the parable. So yeah, and it connects to the book of Jonah because Jonah is left unresolved. Jonah is the prophet that brings a Gentile revival and is as mad at God that God saved the Gentiles because he should have been judged. They should have judged the Gentiles and he's mad at God because he says, God, that's why I didn't want to go because I knew your gracious compassion is slow to anger, abounding in kindness and I knew you were going to do this and he didn't want to go because he knew the Assyrians had one day hurt the Jewish people and take them in exile because prophetically saw it and he didn't want to go because he knew what they were going to do to the 10 tribes where he was from. But we don't know if Jonah ever gets the message, just left unresolved. We don't know if Jonah gets it and we don't know if the older brother ever gets it either. Let me ask in two different ways. So we've talked about this show before, like the Jews are expecting a geopolitical figure that's going to liberate them from underneath the foot of Rome and conquer and Christ does that but it doesn't do it in the way that maybe the people wanted or they'd hoped for. And so, the Jews today are still waiting for a liberating Messiah. Was that part of the thing too where Christ is like, it feels like a subversion. We're talking about subversion. It's like he's doing it but he's not doing it. He's doing it in a way that is supernatural. There's so much in the unseen realm that Christ is doing. It's a principality conquer more than a political conquer. And he's actually, he's undoing these things, the curses and he's fulfilling the prophecy but is it because it didn't happen in the way that the Jewish people had hoped? Is that part of the rejection? Yes, it's definitely part of it. And I think, again, going back to the season that we're in and we talked about it in the book, Transformed, it's Palm Sunday. So Palm Sunday, Jesus comes riding into Jerusalem with great fanfare. The reason why he comes riding on that Sunday, first of all, because that's the day in Egypt the Passover lambs were set aside at the first Exodus. We're brought into the home and inspected before they were offered on the day of Passover. That exact day, the 10th of Nissan, was the day Jesus rides into Jerusalem because he's the Passover lamb. And when the Pharisees and religious leaders are questioning him, it's like the Passover lamb that was brought in the house, they're going to make a decision whether he's fit to be offered as the lamb or not fit to be offered. And ultimately, we know that he's decided that he's unfit. They actually fulfill prophecies in deciding that. But it's that whole, that's what's going on. But then he comes riding on a donkey. Yeah, what does a donkey mean? What is great question. And this ties into your question and there's a deeper spiritual significance here. The donkey's a mix. It's not Balem's donkey, it's not talking. Could be. It connects to that. So it depends how deep you want to dive on the donkey. Let's go deep. So let's remember to come back to your question because it ties in at the end. So the Hebrew word for donkey is ha more. You got to get the ha. There's a lot of ha. It's a little bit German almost. Yeah. Yes. Gutterl. Yeah. And so every Hebrew word is built on a three letter root. And so the same root for donkey is from the root that means the material world. It's for matter. Chomer in Hebrews. Everything is like made up of Chomer matter. And the donkey is the ultimate biblical manifestation of the material world. That's why it's called a beast of burden in the Old Testament. It represents physicality. And so Jesus riding and Jesus. So the donkey represents physicality. Jesus represents heaven. God creates heaven and earth. So the donkey represents earth, the physical world and matter in the Hebrew word itself. And Jesus represents heaven. Jesus riding the donkey is harnessing everything in the material world, in the physical world, for the sake of heaven to advance God's plans and purposes. This is the verse in Zechariah. In that day, even the pots and the pans will be holy to the Lord. Everything will be used in the service of God. So Jesus is riding the donkey. He's taking control of the physical world, taking back the physical reality that was hijacked by the serpent in the beginning. That's why Satan offers Jesus all the kingdoms of this world. Jesus taking it all back, taking the physical world back, material world back by riding the donkey. And so when we fell, we came out of alignment with the priorities of God and we made the physical more important than the spiritual. Jesus riding the donkey is reordering and showing us the right priority. So it's kind of like in heaven, the streets are paved with what? Gold. Is that because it's like MTV Cribs? Like God's just bling-blinging out heaven. I got it like that. Lifestyles of the rich and famous, right? God's just showing off, frosting out heaven. No, because gold, biblically, represents wealth. In fact, Solomon got 666, the measurement of 666 talents of gold every year. That's a whole nother story. But it represents the wealth of this world. So the streets of heaven are paved with gold. Why? Because it's a reversal of the vies of this world. What people will give their life for here is only pavement in heaven. What is it if a man gains the whole world but loses his soul? It's seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you. And so Jesus riding the donkey is basically making a statement and asking us a question is, are you riding the donkey or is the donkey riding you? And if your focus is on, if your identity, if your drive is primarily to acquire material things, you're the ass and you're being taken for the ride. And then it ties back to, it does tie back to Balaminate, because think about it, everything the old points to new, all throughout the Old Testament, the donkey is connected to the story of redemption. Where's the first place to read about the donkey? Genesis 22, we talk about in the book. God tells Abraham, take the donkey, he takes the donkey, and take Isaac and do what? Go up the hill and offer his only begotten son in the mountain that I will show you. Doesn't he carry wood up the hill? So they're going up to the hill, they're offering a sacrifice, they have the donkey with them. So the donkey is right there with Abraham, the beginning, Abraham, the father offering his only son on the same mountain that Jesus has offered on. And Isaac carries the wood for the sacrifice, like Jesus carries his own cross. He's the Isaac. And God the father, God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. That story originates in Genesis 22 at the binding of Isaac. Okay, so the donkey is there. Boom, Genesis 22, beginning with Abraham. Well, think about this, the donkey plays a role in the Passover. When God tells Moses to go redeem the children of Israel, what does he do? He puts his family on the donkey. So Abraham puts materials on the donkey, Moses puts his family on the donkey, but ultimately Messiah is going to ride the donkey. He's the donkey rider. So if you got into it, you see there is a progression of redemption beginning with Abraham, Moses, Balaam, who also prophesies about the coming of the Messiah. And then ultimately Jesus, and it's a fulfillment of Zechariah 9.9, which says, behold, your king will come to you humbly and riding on a donkey. But this ties into what you asked before. Who knew the donkey was the pinnacle of creation? It's like when Shrek, he goes, I'm a valiant steed. It's like the donkey is overlooked. It's awesome humility in it too, right? Because the kings wouldn't be riding a donkey. That's not, especially at the time of Jesus, you'd be riding a, the Romans and their leaders rode stallion, steeds, as Nate said. You know what's interesting? The story of Joseph in Egypt, I was like 19 when I heard that story. Like for the first time I heard that story, he was saying that the dreams he interprets are from the cupbearer and the baker, the blood and the body. And the dream is one's going to be killed on a tree in three days. And then one's going to be restored to the right hand of the king. And I remember sitting there as I go and, wow, this is so interwoven. And it changed my life when I heard that early prophecy of what was going to happen. So that was a story, so many layers in Joseph in Egypt. I mean, there's something about Egypt in particular. Well, it's tied all together. So it's tied all together. So, because you're right, it ties to Joseph, it ties to the donkey, it ties to your question, all ties together. So how? So we have to understand is that the rabbis make the statement. They say if Israel is unworthy of receiving the Messiah, he will come riding humbly on a donkey. If there is worthy, he will come riding on the clouds of heaven. It represents two aspects of the Messiah. So in the Bible and in Jewish thought, there's actually, in Jewish thought, there's actually two Messiahs. There's Messiah's son of Joseph, who like Joseph in the Bible, rejected by his brothers, suffers in order to atone and redeem his people. And then there is Messiah's son of David. He is the ruling and reigning Messiah. So traditional Judaism sees two different people fulfilling those two different roles as a Messiah, two different. But we know from the New Testament, it's not two different Messiahs, it's two comings. The first time he comes humbly riding on the donkey, Israel wasn't ready to receive him. He comes as the Lamb of God. When he returns, he comes riding a horse and riding the clouds of heaven because he's coming back as the line of the tribe of Judah, who is going to wage war against the enemies of God and establishes the kingdom of God on earth as it is on heaven. So they think he's the, they want a Davidic or Maccabee type Messiah from the story of Hanukkah, cleanse the temple, rid the Gentiles. He doesn't understand that he's looking to do it in internal spiritual level, in the spiritual realm before he does it in the natural realm. So he's not riding a donkey on the second time. That was riding the horse and riding the clouds. He's a cloud rider. He's a road dipped in blood. There'll be a donkey in there somewhere, I bet. There's got to be. This is the show, right? I love the idea that we, that Christ is acting in these two realms. When he's, these things that, as you talked about, like in the Lord's Prayer, it says on earth as it's in heaven, there's this duality to the things that Jesus does that are both here in the physical and then also in the spiritual realm and the supernatural. A couple questions, because we're talking about Easter here. So ultimately it comes in on Palm Sunday and then we have the crucifixion, the veil of the temple being torn from top to bottom. What would that, what's the significance of that? What is that, what does that matter? Or the palm branches or something else. I mean, there's just the symbolism, like as, you know, as 21st century Westerners, right? We, a lot of what we've, we talked about with the work of Dr. Michael Heizer and then also having you here because there's this, there's this whole Jewish cultural backdrop that we are separated from as well, time, space and everything else. But, you know, what does that matter? Why does it need to be torn from top to bottom? What's happening there with after Christ's death? Let's frame it in the bigger context. So let's start on, and if we want to get into the last supper, we can, but let's start on Good Friday. So the first question I think we have to ask is, of all the days Jesus could have died, right? God's very intentional. Why did he die on a Friday? Right? We need to understand from, from the point of the biblical reckoning of days, Friday is the sixth day and Saturday is the seventh day, it's the Sabbath. So, biblically, Jesus dies on the sixth day. Why? Because on Good Friday, because man was created on what day of the week? Last day. The sixth day. Man was created on the sixth day and Jewish thought we fell on the sixth day. When Jesus comes, he comes to restore what was lost. He does his first miracle of water into wine. Well, why is that the first miracle he does? Well, what's the first miracle Moses does? He turns the water into blood. Jesus turns the water into wine because he comes not to bring death, but to have, bring us life and have it more abundantly. They both do water miracles, but opposites, right? Not blood, wine, symbol of the Messianic Kingdom. But how many pots does he do the miracle with? Six stone pots. Yeah. Because it's restoring the fruitfulness of creation that was lost when man who was created on the sixth day, sinned on the sixth day, he's restoring the fruitfulness God's original and design and intention for creation. And how is it going to be restored? It's pointing to his death and resurrection and he's crucified on the sixth day, the same day we took from the tree, the same day we fell, the same day we lost God's original blessing for creation is the day that he dies. It's the restoring of the tree too, as we talked about in the beginning, right? It's restoring of the tree. And those weren't even, those pots were not big wine skins either. Well, they were, they were, they know they were big stone pots. 30 to 40 gallons each they could hold. And they were washing. They were for ritual washing known as netiolacia. Like cleansing pots. Cleansing pots. And so it's showing, there's two ways to interpret it. I interpreted it as he's, Jesus is renewing the old by fulfilling it, but here's a deeper thing. So there's no Roman numerals in the Bible. So how do you write numbers? You write numbers with letters. So every Hebrew letter has a number associated with it. It's alphanumeric. Hebrew and Greek are alphanumeric. By the way, that's really important. This is a little sidetrack, bunny trail that Hebrew is in Greek or alphanumeric. The languages in our make, the languages, the three languages the Bibles are written in, Bible is written, it's all alphanumeric. Because view, I know you guys get a lot of people that watch that maybe aren't followers of Jesus yet, right? They're interested, they're seekers, right? Yeah, a lot actually. So think about it. I think one of the hardest things for people to wrap their minds around, if they're like more academically or scientifically orientated into quantum physics, is how can you believe that God spoke the world into existence? They were like primitive people, they didn't understand, we can't take the Bible seriously. If you understand the Bible is alphanumeric, when God speaks the world into existence, he's coding creation. Coding requires letters and numbers. The letters form the building blocks of the spiritual aspects of creation. The numbers behind the letters, which are interchangeable, form the mathematical structure of creation. So when God was speaking the world into existence, he was actually, words have carried numbers, he's actually building the mathematical structure of creation and coding it when he speaks. If God is coding creation, we know like simulation theory, something people postulate, right? So if you kind of go down that rabbit trail, then God speaks 10 times in the creation count. Some people think there's 10 dimensions, which could be the 10 dimensions of God speaking 10 times. Then sin, okay, what that is, it's introducing a virus into the system that causes it to crash. And Jesus comes to remove the virus that was put into the system. But the idea that letters and numbers are interchangeable, we live in a mathematical universe. So the letters, numbers being interchangeable shows that God is creating the mathematical structure. His word is the blueprint of creation, right? So then why is that important? Because Genesis 1, verse 1 in Hebrew has seven words in Hebrew. The sixth word begins with the sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, which is the Hebrew letter, vav, which is in the shape of a nail. And the vav is the most used letter in all of the five books of Moses. It's the conjunction and as well. So God creates the heavens and is the sixth of the seven words of Genesis chapter one. So man was created on the sixth day, we fell in the sixth day, what happened? We broke the vav, we broke the connection between heaven and earth. Jesus dies on the sixth day to restore the connection between heaven and earth in the shape of a nail. And he does it by nailing heaven and earth, reconnecting it again on earth as it is in heaven. So there can again be this alignment between heaven and earth as a result of what he did. And as a result of that, the sixth zone pot shows what happened when heaven and earth align, the blessing and the overflow that results when heaven and earth are connected once again. And does that symbolize the veil going top to bottom? And that symbolizes the veil going to top to bottom because redemption begins, comes from heaven to earth, not from earth to heaven, right? So redemption begins above by the will of God and comes down to man. And so redemption is not something man can work his way up or cause to happen, but it's decreed and decided in heaven and then manifested on earth. So it always has to happen, heaven down, top down. The veil being written to represents connection. Why was there a veil in the temple? You have to understand what the tabernacle in the temple represents. The tabernacle was a portable garden of Eden. Is a return to the garden of Eden. God's presence is now among the people, but the people aren't holy. So there has to be a barrier, a separation between God and the people or God will judge the people because of his holiness, can't be in the unholiness. And so God creates a house and he creates a barrier and the last barrier is a veil. And on that veil are cherubim, the cherubim that guarded the way to the garden of Eden that prevented the people from going in where cherubim, flaming angelic, look like fiery swords that prevented people. The same thing was on the veil. So when the veil and written to is like, okay, Eden is open again, connection is restored, you're not barred, you're not in exile. I'm welcoming you into my presence to reestablish relationship. Like I walk with Adam and Eve in the garden, but even more intimately, I'm not just going to walk among you, I'm going to live in you. Wow. It's incredible because I think storytellers, when you have a movie, you make a movie, it goes viral. You have all the fans that pull and they pick holes in the plot. And you are writing a book that says there are no plot holes in the story. If anything, there are more connections and there's nobody that can poke a hole in the biblical story. No, absolutely because like, because we've been scrutinizing this book forever because we've been looking for plot holes. We've been looking for reasons not to believe it. And it keeps proving itself more true and more connected and more symbolism and more A to B. 100%. There's no, on one level, there's no way no one is genius enough to make it fit together and have all of those connections the way the Bible does. It's a statistical mathematical improbability for hundreds of messianic prophecies to be fulfilled to detail in one person's life. But then on another level. And through things like a donkey. In ways that we don't, we can't see till now because we have that particular spot in history to look back and go, oh, that's why the donkey, you know. 100%. And then on another level, like anyone who writes a book creates a podcast, creates a work of art. On some level, it is a reflection of the person who writes it. Part of who that person is is expressed in whatever that individual creates. It's an extension of that individual in some way. That's true of the Bible. So because God is infinite, there's an infinite number of connections and an infinite level of depth in Scripture. So you can't exhaust it. So it's different from any other book because you read a book once, you watch a movie once or twice, you put it on the shelf, you don't need to go back to it. But the Bible is different because it's living and active. It's a book that's alive. Every other book is dead. The Bible is a living book. And what that means is every time you open a page of the Bible, and you could read a story a thousand times, and there are a thousand new things you could find, there are a thousand ways God can speak to you differently through the text because it is from the breath of God. God is eternal. It is God breathed, and therefore there is an infinite eternal nature to God's word, and therefore there is infinite wisdom and depth and connections in it. It's like the ocean. Shallow enough for a child of swimming and so deep, we know less about the ocean than we do about the moon. Yeah. And the best movies are a rip off of the gospel. They just tell the Christ story over and over again, whether it's Marvel movies or it's sci-fi movies. They're all telling the gospel story. But literally like... The good ones. No, but literally like if you look at the history of Hollywood, the pioneer of modern storytelling is Cecil B. DeMille. And Cecil B. DeMille learned to tell stories through studying biblical narrative. So literally one of the pioneers of modern movie making learned the principles of movie making and storytelling based upon biblical narrative. What are some of your favorites then? Like you've been uncovering these secrets that are popping out of the text all the time. Oh, that goes back to this. You've already mentioned a lot of them, but what are some... Yeah, there's so many that we get into a book. Like let's go back to the but earlier in the book, there's a few things we talk about. Like one of those things is the Jesus baptism. And at his baptism, the heavens open. Well, why do the heavens open at his baptism? I grew up outside in New York. I used to love going to Broadway shows. And you know a Broadway show starts at the opening curtain call. Heaven's open up because it's the opening curtain call. It's the start of Jesus story, right? And on the cross, the heavens close. There's three hours of darkness. It's the final curtain call. And why are there three hours of darkness? Because there were three days of darkness in Egypt. And what's the 10th plague? It's the death of the firstborn. That's God's firstborn son on the tree. He's taking the plagues of Egypt on himself so that we don't have to experience. So it begins with the opening of the curtain. It ends with the closing of the curtain. Then the curtains open, voice of the father. And the spirit comes down in the shape of a dove. And a dove. A wide dove. There's a lot there with the dove. But here's something amazing. So Jesus says, as it was in the days of Noah, but one of the interesting things with this is that Noah, before he comes out of the ark to know that he's safe, is he sends forth a what? Dove. Dove. And the rabbis ask the question, what happened to the dove? And one of the things the rabbis come to the conclusion based on a number of things that we don't have to get into, but some interesting stuff. They say that Noah's dove went into heaven and it's waiting in heaven. We talk about in the book with a golden crown in its mouth waiting to crown the king Messiah when he reveals himself. King Messiah is revealing himself, the dove returns in the form of a spirit. The days of Noah begin and Jesus reveals himself as the one that the Old Testament prophesies. I mean, this is one little thing. Jason, we were in the season of Easter here in the resurrection. You had mentioned, we didn't get to it, but we wanted to get back to it was the Last Supper. So what's happening there? Because you teased it a little bit and then we got into the donkeys. Yeah, let's talk about the Last Supper. Let's make sure we talk about the empty tomb here. How many donkeys do you own, by the way? I own none, but here's the fact that people don't know. I want to go get a donkey. There's actually two donkeys. There's not one. It's a donkey and the colt, the fall. So people don't think one donkey. No, there's two donkeys. Why? The adult donkey, the mama donkey represents the old covenant and the young donkey represents the new covenant. It represents the coming together of the old and new covenant fulfilled in Jesus that he's uniting it because he comes to fulfill the old and he comes to bring Jeremiah 31. I'll make a new covenant with the house of Jesus. I always have a backup donkey. I always have that backup. Old and new. Old and new. And donkeys are fierce protectors out on the farm too. Yeah, yeah. And donkeys had to be redeemed like the firstborn of Israel. There's a lot there. My grandpa had a donkey and we got to name it. We named it Taco Bell. Very 80s. That's great. He named his after his method. The donkey had diarrhea all the time. There was two donkeys. He named one and we got to name the other. He named his after his mom, Gertrude. Gertrude and Taco Bell. That's great. My grandpa had two donkeys. This is all coming full. It's a full circle. I see it. So what's happened to Last Supper? Last Supper, well, again, so let's go. Come on. We called it the Last Supper, but technically it was the Last Seder. Right? So Jewish people, when they celebrate the Passover, have a meal to come to God commands to commemorate what he did for us when he brought us out of Egypt, like they did in the days of Moses. There's three key things, the Passover lamb, the unleavened bread, the bitter herbs, and then there's, it's sent around four cups of wine or grape juice. What's significant is that Jesus institutes the Eucharist communion at the Passover Seder, at the Last Supper Passover Seder. And there's four cups because there's four aspects of redemption, four letters of God's name, four exiles, but he institutes it over the third cup. Why the third cup? Because the third cup is known as the Koska'u'la, the cup of redemption. Why? Because there was three sprinklings of the blood on the door, on the top and on the two sides of the doorpost. So three sprinklings of blood, Jesus raises the third cup. His death is going to be the blood of a greater Passover lamb, which by the way ties back to Abraham and Isaac, because Isaac asks his dad, I see everything but the sacrifice, where is it? And Abraham says, God will provide himself a lamb. It could mean God will provide a lamb or God himself will be that lamb. It can be read that way in Hebrew. And that is the real meaning, but guess what? God doesn't provide a lamb, he provides a what? A ram. Because the lamb was yet to come. The lamb is the Passover lamb, it's ultimately Jesus who is the come, God's provision for redemption. And so the third cup, the three sprinklings of blood, redemption is tied to the number three. Hosea six is two days I will tear you, but on the third day I will restore you. Then in the New Testament, Jesus does his first miracle of water and to wine the third day. He's crucified at the third hour. There are three crosses. Peter denies him three times, three hours of darkness. He rises from the dead on the third day in fulfillment of the third cup, the blood of the Passover lamb, and redemption being restored. But here's something beautiful. The third cup reminds us of the Passover lamb and there are no Passover lamb sacrifices today because it could only happen when the temple was operating on the temple mount in Jerusalem. So since Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, no Passover sacrifices. But in the days Jesus lived, they actually offered the Passover sacrifice in the temple. And he ate of that Passover at the last supper, that sacrifice. But here's the thing. When you offered the Passover lamb in the temple, the person who offered it had to have in mind every single person who is going to eat that Passover lamb with them at this Passover Seder meal that evening. If that person was not in the mind of the person offering the sacrifice, they were not permitted to eat of the sacrifice. So when Jesus died on that cross, he had every person who would ever believe in him as mine, in his mind when he died. He had you in mine, he had you in mind, he had me in mind in order for us to be able to partake and participate us in it. And even before he died in the cross, he's the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Even before the world was created, he had us in mind that he was going to die as that Passover lamb. That's good. That's very good. So yeah, when do you start to see the connections? Because obviously, a lot of people read the scriptures in the standard def and they don't go high def. And they did start to switch for you. Yeah, I began to see it pretty early because again, when I had to go meet with the rabbi and kind of make my case for why as a Jewish kid, I believed in Jesus, I had to begin making the connection, at least in terms of Messianic prophecy between the old and the new. And then as I began to read and study those prophecies, I just went deeper and deeper like Genesis 49, the scepter shall not depart from Judah nor the ruler staff from between his feet until Shiloh comes. And that's the name of the Messiah according to the rabbis. And to him will be the obedience of the nations and they'll tie their donkey to the choices grapevine and they'll wash their garments in the blood of grapes. Well, this begins to be fulfilled. John chapter two, water into wine, the overflow of the pots, Shiloh's come, right? The wine's overflowing. This is beginning to be fulfilled. This is a sneak preview of the day that the mountains will drip with wine in the kingdom. So like you begin to read those things and see it or like into him will be the obedience of the nations. We talk about it in the book, when the wise men come, they are beginning to fulfill that prophecy. The wise men represent the nations coming and laying their feet at the gifts of the promised messianic king. The shepherds represents Israel's recognition because they're Jewish shepherds. They're actually not ordinary shepherds. They're Levitical shepherds. And it's the reason why Jesus is lying in a manger and he's wrapped in swaddling cloth because the reason why that's assigned to the shepherds is that these were the shepherds raising the Passover lambs for the temple. And Jesus is born in the same spot, the caves where the Passover lambs were born. And he swaddled like one of the Passover lambs. And therefore the shepherds recognize him as the Passover lamb who takes away the sin of the world. And that's why that's assigned to them and not some miraculous sign. It was that's why those signs matter to them. Right? We get more into what the swaddling cloth was and why the salting and how it ties in the side and transformed. But so all these connections are there if we just begin to like ask, what does this mean in the Bible? What does it go back to? How does it connect to the old? Or like I'll give you one more because of the resurrection season, right? So Jesus dies on the sixth day. He's in the tomb at the end of the sixth day and he rises on Sunday. Why that order? Six in the Bible represents the physical world. God created the world in six days. Seventh represents the heaven being infused into earth because the Sabbath is the first thing God sanctifies. Right? So it's the spiritual being infused into the material. And then eight in the Bible is the number of the supernatural. So Sunday can be looked at as the first day, but it's also going to be seen as the eighth day. In music, if you go up a note, you go up a what? Octave. What if octave mean? It means eight and eight is always a step up, right? And so eight biblically is the number that transcends the natural. It's the number of the supernatural. So Jesus dies on the sixth day. Why? Because just like God finished the work of creation, he finishes the work of new creation. Just like God rested on the seventh day, he rested on the seventh day. And then he rises, on the eighth day, the number of the supernatural, but there's something more. Jesus' name in Greek adds up to eight, eight, eight. Eight is the number of David. He's the son of David. David was the eighth son of Jesse. Eight is the number of new beginnings. How many people were saved in the ark? Eight were saved in the ark. New beginnings. Eight turned on its side is the number of the infinite. It's the number of infinity. It's the infinite breaking into the finite. It's the supernatural breaking into the natural. Okay. So when Jesus rises from the eighth day, what it's saying is that we don't have to live from the place of the natural. We can live from the place of the supernatural. It's why Jewish people are circumcised on the eighth day. The supernatural mark of the covenant is in their flesh. It's the reason why you can't destroy the Jewish people. We bear the mark of the infinite eternal supernatural God. You can't destroy the people who bear the mark. And Christians who now believe in Jesus, who rose on the eighth day, we become eighth day people. We're not six day people. We're not seventh day people. We're eighth day people. And that means we are the people that rise above and transcend natural orders and boundaries. We're not limited by them. Boom. Beautiful. No wonder you like Troy River. I'm the numbers guys too. I do a lot with numbers. You guys over there talking math. Jason, this has been awesome. I'm sure one more thing. Yeah, I'll be constant. One more thing. So we love taking people to Israel on trips. I know you guys got one coming up. The place where Jesus buries is a place called the garden tomb. Why is he buried in a garden tomb? Well, sin began in a garden and has to culminate in the garden. But what's interesting is, and we talked about in the book, transformed, the Hebrew word for tomb is kevher. And it's the same word for womb. How can tomb and womb be the same word? They're completely different things. They seem to be opposites. Right? The tomb is the place where you death promises die, relationships die, hope dies. A womb is something that bursts us to life, promise potential. What are they connected? The tomb and the womb are connected because they're both portals. The tomb is a portal to the afterlife. The womb is a portal to this life. They're both doors. They're both portals to realities. The reason why these words are the same is because Jesus is in the business of transforming the tomb into a womb. The very thing that seems like it was going to be the end is the very thing that God uses to become the beginning. The very thing that seemed to lead to death is the very thing God's going to use to birth life. And so, for the disciples, the upper room became a type of tomb. As Jesus was locked in clothes in that tomb, Roman sealed, guards guarding it, the disciples out of fear locked themselves in the upper room. They didn't want to end up like him. They hid. But when Jesus resurrected from the dead, it said, your fear is as empty as the empty tomb. We don't need to live in fear. Fear is empty. Jesus overcame. The very thing that seems that's going to be your end is the very thing that God wants to transform into that new beginning for you. So, don't worry. Don't live in fear. Live by faith. Place it in Jesus because he changes everything. This has been awesome. It's like biblical archaeology is like mining stuff out of the scriptures. We're going to keep finding things forever. And you said new little things. There are probably so many things that weren't written down. All the Easter eggs. Yeah, they're all connected. Yeah. Well, tell us our listeners where you got to catch a flight. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And love the earth, you guys. Yeah. Rabbi Jason Sobel on all social media website or fusionglobal.org. Got lots of teachings, lots of books, lots of resources. Yeah. When the book, the book is out everywhere. Everywhere transformed by the Messiah, how the Old and New Testament Jesus' connection reveals God's intentional story for your life. Thanks, Jason. I love it. I spent time with us. I always wanted to travel back to the endless well of the Bible and pull new things out. Show you a picture of me with my donkey later as a kid because I... That's good. That's not for the show. It's embarrassing. Well, maybe Ben along with me put it on the show, but I'll show you after. Thanks, man. Thank you.