How is Empathy Weaponized to Manipulate You?! (ft. Allie Beth Stuckey) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Empathy becomes toxic when it leads you to do three things. That's affirm sin, validate lies, or support destructive policies. The popularity gospel will basically tell you that the more popular you are, the more anointed you must be. No one will ever convince me that my God is not faithful to provide for his kids when they walk by faith with him. No one is saved by their ethnicity or by their sincerity, but by their faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Aras, and I'm here with Pastor Josh Houghton in chat. Hey, hey, hey. Vamos a petir este cerdo. Vamos a. What did I say? You meant to say vamos a. Is this? Pegar. Pegar. Vamos a pegar este cerdo. Ah, to pegar. That's right, man. We just believe in. From Spanish to Italian, real quick. We just traveled around the world. It was awesome. Hey, man, coming to you from Lakewood Church in Dallas, Texas. Today we're going to have a great episode. We're going to have Allie Beth Stuckey from the show Relatable join us later in a bit. Yeah, she's coming on, man. We're going to ask her why Hillary Clinton wrote a hit piece about her this week. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be a great conversation. So essentially we're having Hillary Clinton join the podcast by proxy. That's right. That's exactly how it works. Hey, Jason, Hillary Clinton. Hey, none of us are suicidal. If you get it, you get it. Come on, man. If you get it, you get it. You're a joke. I can tell both of you were like, that's funny, but can we laugh? We're also going to go, we're going to ask the question. We're a sound mind and able body. Are Jewish people that do not believe in Jesus but faithfully practice Judaism, are they saved, Pastor Josh? We are going to answer that question. That is a very common question. I also want to know, is tithing a biblical mandate? The internet is going to go crazy for this. A megachurch pastor will respond. This is a filthy megachurch pastor. You preach on money? We'll get to this. Okay, great. Pop quiz. What percent of Jesus' teaching was about money stewardship or giving? I have a number. He probably got it. I'm going to go 25%. You're high. I'm going to go 24 then. I'm going to go 18%. Oh, okay. hey uh last week uh josh paul he said that he had never tried a whataburger oh okay wait hold on and so when i heard that you know i i said i made it clear that i'm an in and out kind of guy uh hey hold on we're gonna talk about this so i but he you know he should have whataburger so i thought the pastoral slash moral obligation to fix that so i took paul you took paul i took him that's right so i have a photo to prove that uh trinity look at that oh and jason's in there too look at the howard team look at how happy he is evaporating off my life as i'm eating that he does he looks really happy he just looks so happy paul paul what did you think uh it was fine are you kidding okay so here a couple things so number one it's kind of like the waffle house of like burger places right and i consider that a high compliment i was i was about to say i'm not saying that's a slam have you heard the thing that waffle house is uh southern hibachi that's perfection it's awesome if only they would like somebody they put the shrimp into your mouth if they could do that like with a hash brown or piece of bacon would be fantastic i'm never gonna get that image out of my head obviously we know what where you stand on the in and out slash whataburger i'm for the one that's from texas not california We're like, here's the thing. It was fine. It's your thing. It wasn't bad. I actually got two burgers. I got a bacon cheeseburger. You said basically go basic. So I was like, let me go basic. I got a bacon cheeseburger, and then I got something called the Monterey. I only could eat half of both because they're massive. Monterey was great. I was like, man, I'd go back and get that bacon cheeseburger. It was like eating a bigger Wendy's thing. How dare you? Did you try the – we need to talk about the Bible. Oh, we will. Did you try the spicy ketchup? I did. It's fine. I did not. It's fine. But here's the deal. They don't do spicy in El Salvador, do they? Uh, not, it's not a thing. Yeah. But you know, we do, but it's just not a thing. Yeah. So I know the first question you'd ask and the first question everybody asked, so what did you think was better? What a burger in and out. And I'm just going to be honest with you. I really don't see much of a difference. And if people weren't biased, I don't. We just lost like a hundred thousand subscribers. Cause I'll even, what? I'll just say for the record, I'm more of a Shake Shack guy. Um, and. My brother worked at Shake Shack. I like Shake Shack. And then for our people that are from the Southeast, you'll get this. I think the really best one that's more regional is a little place called Cookout. Cookout, to me, is the absolute best. Anyways, my point is I actually want to prove it, if you don't mind conducting an experiment with me. What is happening right now? What is legit? What is happening right now? Because I really feel like if people were honest, they couldn't just tell the difference based on taste. Oh, dude. So we have – don't bring it out quite yet. You can bring out the blindfold. So I have an In-N-Out Whataburger behind me. I do. I do. Bro, this is fancy, by the way. So in a second – It's real fancy. I asked for a blindfold and I got a whole – I got questions. I don't even know what this is. My admin, Nina, she's the best. She does whatever it takes. She goes above and beyond. So she didn't just get you a blindfold. She's like, you may fall asleep when you're doing this test. Here you go. Okay, so we're going to give you a burger. Now, I did find out you're not a vegetables guy. So, Carlos, we're going to have to take the vegetables off. No, I don't do vegetables. So we'll have to take them off. So here's what we're going to do. You're allowed to hold the burger with one hand. You can't, like, feel around it or anything like that. You just got to hold it, like, really simply and just take a bite. And we're going to have you take a bite of each. We're not going to show you anything. And then you're going to have to tell us first which was better. So just objectively, which burger was the better bite? And then we're going to ask you to guess then which was which. I object to the methodology. All right. Hey, hey, hey, well, let me ask something. Let me ask something. Yeah. Are you guys going to try to juke me and give me two in and out burgers? I thought about it. I thought that's the George Costanza, you know, they're all two in this method. I'm not going to do that. I thought about it, but I'm like, that's just devious. That's wrong. Okay. So we're going to do this. We'll try to do this fast to save us on time. All right. So we have the Bible to talk. We do have the Bible. Hey, get rid of those. Get rid of them. Yeah. So we'll let me get rid of. Hey, by the way, Paul's touching it. So if you get sick, Josh, you know. I'm not very germ conscious. Okay. Okay. Oh, wow. Here. Yeah. That's there you go. I think we'll just do the edge. I'm going to hand it to you. Yeah. I'm holding the back end of it. Wait. So don't eat the back end of it. You're holding it. Actually, here. Just grab it and take a bite out of it. bro if you guys do if you guys i can i already know this you're feeling around it all right take a bite i feel like you cheated a little bit right there is there anything for real are you messing with me there's no there's nothing on it i'm sorry if you don't like mustard that's a real burger okay okay what is on is there anything on this no we took it all off you said you did bro that's like a normal order of what a burger horrible this is there's nothing on this that's a normal water burger order since i was four oh i guess i shouldn't have said that would you say nothing nothing don't worry about it uh okay no you're good okay you're good take that away this this proves my belief this only confirms my belief i need the other burger this has cheese on it so that's a little bit better. Well, you didn't even do apples to apples? We did. We did. Go ahead. Try that one. Hey, for real. You're punk. I can tell from your tone of voice you're punk. No, you're good. Go ahead and grab the light. What are you doing to me? Which one's better? Reality hits you hard. What are you doing? Which one's better? Are they both the same or which one's better? First or second it's time to decide which one's better well but the second one had cheese on it okay taking the cheese off just besides that the second one was better because it had cheese on it oh look at that qualification all right pastor you can take the first one was the water i hate to break it to your but you're holding it in an alberger right now now i did not mean for that to happen because i think they're both the first one was water okay yes the first one was you spiked the test by putting cheese on the in and out burger i thought they were the same i'm crying over here because i'm looking at that mask on your face i think you just like if you know they only have cheeseburgers and then on what a burger you have to ask for cheese to be added on it so i'm gonna give you a redeeming moment because you just accidentally trashed what a burger saying it's the worst thing you've had since you're like four i will say is the burger with nothing to give you some credence and to move this along i will say that was i will say looking back i did not mean We kind of did kind of lead you a little bit and loaded. You know, again, I'm just more of I think they're just both OK. They're just OK. I'm sorry. Consolation price. But that being said, you know, we're doing some Spotify hat giveaways. And so I want to give you some love right now because I feel like we put you on the spot and you accidentally threw your beloved Whataburger under the bus. So we are giving away hats. and one of the things that one person wrote, and I think we actually have it on the screen, because there's some controversy over the arm wrestling competition and that maybe you had kind of loaded up. Listen, I'll do it again right now. You were having too much create team, but there was someone who wrote in to defend you. This is from Mike Barnack, who we're going to give a hat to this week. He said, Josh, I'm with you, bro. Just because a 5'8 dude beats a 6'3 dude doesn't mean he's taking something. It just means he was a better man that day. Well, but I did create team. But we just got to redeem it a little bit. is he the winner of the he's the winner of the last week i have to move us along a little bit and also just say hey we kind of put you on the spot there let's redeem it and that's fine because we're having this conversation to uh this week's giveaway comment whataburger or in and out below on youtube or spotify be honest which one is better pastor josh already told us which one's better uh and so i'm kidding and so uh and then we have another winner as well john foxwell 11 from YouTube, hey, thanks for participating. I also just want to say, and then let's start talking about the Bible. I do just want to point out, the guy that thinks In-N-Out is on the same level as Whataburger just moved here from the Pacific Northwest. And I just need to clearly state this for the public. Yes. I will say, we don't have time for this, but when we're off camera off air, I'll describe to you just his experience there yesterday. It was... That's a different... Bro, we got to get to the Bible. We got to get to the Bible. We have things to talk about. Also, shout out to, like, if you're a part of the Liffer Nation and you come visit us in person to any of our physical locations, come say hi. We have a gift for you. This week, Trinity, can you pull that real quick? We had Eric and Anna flying from London. Yeah, we did. To come say hi. It was awesome. They joined last year because of the relationship series. They got married four months ago. Bro, love that. And then to download the Lake Point app also, if you're looking for a daily Bible reading plan, we got you. We got the daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly sermon plus an early release of the weekly Live Free podcast plus the discipleship guide. Go to lakepoint.church slash – actually, no, just kidding. Text the word app to 20411 and we're going to hook you up. Pastor Josh, how are you doing? I'm cleansing my palate. That was a little rough. That's great. What did I make into the sermon? All right. This is a good one. This blessed me to study. So first of all, we did this week. We're in week whatever of the boot camp series. We're talking about a disciple, stewards, all that he has. So this week was the Luke 19 passage. Honestly, I've never preached this passage before in my life. This is the parable of the ten minas, which a lot of people confuse with the parable of the talents. So one's in Luke, one's in Matthew, I think. Yeah, Matthew 25. Matthew 25. That's what I thought. Thank you, Chad G. Peltie. You're welcome. So a few things. Here's what's going on here in this passage. It's really interesting. This passage – so here's what didn't make it into the sermon. I don't have time to talk about this. This passage is after Jesus has, quote-unquote, set his face towards Jerusalem. What he's doing in this passage is – I'm going to read it. It starts saying this, as they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable because he was near to Jerusalem and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. Then he goes in and he tells a parable about a quote-unquote nobleman that goes off into a far country to receive a kingdom. While he's there, he puts these guys in sort of like his senior VPs. He puts them in charge of resources and asks them to steward the resources. Then he comes back after he's received the kingdom. This is really important. We're going to talk about a theology of the Jewish people and some things around Jerusalem here in a second. And then he awards each of them reign over cities. This is really interesting, and it has theological implications. Reign over cities according to how well they stewarded the minas, which was a month's wages, while he was gone. So basically whoever turned the highest return on investment on what he put into their hands, they received rulership over a certain number of cities. And then at the end, I'm going to read it because it sounds like pretty savage. At the end, I'll read this. It says, I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. So it's like Jesus is like the anti-Bernie Sanders. It's like literally – it's the opposite, and there's a reason for that. It's the opposite. And then in verse 27, it says, as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me. Now, let me say a couple of things real quick here that didn't make it into the sermon. So what Jesus is doing here is he's correcting a misunderstanding for people who were listening because they all thought that as he was going to Jerusalem, they thought he will walk in. It'd be immediate coronation and that he would be crowned like the new like the what David was, the old covenant. Jesus would be even better to the new covenant immediately. He'd become the king of Israel. Israel would ride in and overthrow Rome, and he would establish his earthly kingdom. Jesus is correcting that here, and he is alluding to something that theologians now call inaugurated eschatology. That's George Ladd, inaugurated eschatology. Eschatology is a big theological word that means a study of the end times. So what he's doing here is Jesus is correcting. He's going, actually, man, the kingdom is already launched because I now – I am ruling and reigning through the power of the Holy Spirit. And you're going to go and make disciples of all nations. So the kingdom is already launched, and the church, churches are quote-unquote outposts of the kingdom. So in the same way that if I go to Israel or wherever, and there's the U.S. Embassy, when I walk into the U.S. Embassy, the laws from another kingdom apply on those grounds. A lot of people don't know that. It's very interesting, that little square footage. Whenever you walk into a church, that's an outpost. It's an embassy of the kingdom of God, and the laws of the kingdom of God apply. So the kingdom is already launched through the church, but Jesus is saying it's already, but it's also not yet. That's the big theological terminology George Ladd popularized, inaugurated this catalog. He's going it's not yet because I'm actually not. He's going I'm not right now going to become the king and make Israel my earthly kingdom. So what he's doing here is he's answering the question, well, then what should you guys be doing in the meantime? That's really what should you be doing in the meantime? Now, a couple of things are really interesting here that have theological implications a lot of people miss. One, the fact that these guys, his senior VPs, they receive cities. That actually pulls on a little thread that runs its way through the entire Bible. A lot of people don't know this. We do not fully understand what this means. What we do know is that when Jesus does return in some way that we do not fully understand, spirit filled Christians will reign alongside of him over the new earth and in his new kingdom. Here's some verses talk about this. Revelation 20 says, and I saw thrones and they sat on them and judgment was committed to them. They talk about like honestly, like us three, dude, someday this like we're in this verse. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 2 Timothy 2. Here is a trustworthy saying. If we died with him, we will also live with him. If we endure with him, we will also reign with him. That's interesting. Now, here's the one that's the most interesting. Anytime there's verses about angels, I'm like, bro, I don't know what the heck's going on, but I bet it's going to be cool. 1 Corinthians 6. Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? So like in some way that we don't understand yet, when Christ returns, we're going to be part of the final judgment. And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? It's a whole different thing. Do you not know that we will judge angels? Do you have any idea what that means? You got any thought? I don't know. The idea, excuse me, that we're ruling over and somehow we're a part. We partner with God even in the judgment, specifically of the demonic angels. So like when they're casting a lake of fire, you think we're there going like toss them in. Well, and even that's where sometimes – and obviously I don't say it in the moment like at funerals or other times. Oh, when they – someone says become an angel. I'm like, good for you. Someday you – Yeah, no, you don't become an angel. No, you don't become an angel. Yeah. In fact, if anything, we're going to rule over angels and judge them. So that's interesting that in this passage that's the reason he sets them over cities. It's pulling on that same theological thread. Okay, two other things that were really interesting that I wanted to make it in. Do you have a question? No, I was just going to say. What's your face saying, Harlow? That's consistent. You can read my face actually pretty well. I was just going to say that's consistent with Genesis 2 of giving dominion over Adam and Eve, garden to a city. Anyways, there's dominion and – yeah. Bro, some of my personal – we'll rabbit trail for 30 seconds. Okay. Some of my personal Bible reading time this week, the whole thing of like the Gospels as Genesis 2.0. So like, dude, it just went a layer deeper for me. So, okay, you've got obviously Adam is the first man, and his sin gets imputed to – we didn't plan to talk about this. Let's do this real quick. Let's do a little theology really quick. Let's go. So you've got Adam, the first – theologians call it the federal head of mankind, the representative of mankind. His sin is imputed to all of his children. God noticed this. This is what I noticed this we never noticed before. When God creates Adam, the Bible says he gets face to face and he, quote, breathes the breath of life into him. Interesting. Then he comes to life through the breath of the Father, and then he gives him a dominion mandate. Go and cultivate the earth and basically bring my kingdom and my rule to everything. And then obviously had it all the fall happen, Adam failed at a tree. All right. So you start putting all this together, bro. And then Genesis 1 begins, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. All right, so then think about Jesus. So you put all this together, this starts becoming absolutely fascinating. So in the Gospels, John chapter 1 begins in the same way Genesis chapter 1 begins. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So you have a Genesis 2.0. The book of Romans calls Jesus the second Adam. We know that. OK, in when we are saved. So think about this. God breathes the breath of life into Adam. That's how he comes alive. In John chapter 20, Jesus turns to his disciples and he this is really he breathes on them and he says, receive the Holy Spirit. So how he created in the beginning was through breath. How he does new creation in the new covenant is through breath. Jesus succeeded at a tree. The book of 1 Peter calls the cross a tree. Jesus succeeded at a tree where Adam failed at a tree. God did creation in Adam. What does the Bible say about us? We are a new creation. And now we're remaking the world. In the same way that he gave Adam a dominion mandate, hey, go and cultivate the earth. He gives us new creations, a new covenant, dominion mandate. Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them. So honestly, I just want to layer deeper. Like, bro, the parallels are insane. There's a lot. It's crazy. I love it. I'm taking up all of our time. I'm going to keep going. It's great. All right. So here's the other thing. This is really – this is honestly – dude, when we go to Israel, you've got to see this. This is like one of the coolest things. Okay. So here's what you've got. You've got in this passage. Jesus at the end of the passage goes, hey, these enemies of mine, take them and slaughter them, all the things. And he's lamenting over the fact that he's going to Jerusalem. Now, here's what we know. When he gets to Jerusalem, they do not receive him. He gets to Jerusalem, and Jerusalem does what Jerusalem did with all the prophets, the New Testament says. They kill him and stone him. So they kill Jesus. Now, then you get to the end of Luke 19, and it says this. I'm going to read this. As he approached Jerusalem, he saw the city. He wept over it and said, if you, even you, had known on this day what would bring you peace, but now it is hidden from your eyes. Now, here's a prophecy he makes. Verse 43. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and your children within your walls. Now, here's – listen. They will not leave one stone upon another because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you. So Jesus is prophesying, and he's going, hey, man, that temple that's in Jerusalem, not one stone will be left upon another. Now, in 70 AD, after the completion of the writing of this gospel – that's really important. So after the completion of the writing of at least three of the Gospels, this dude named Titus, a Roman military leader, he comes, and they sack Jerusalem. This is AD 70. It's one of the most important post-Gospel events in history. Titus reportedly, according to the Jewish historian Josephus, specifically tells his soldiers, don't destroy the temple. Here's the problem. But Jesus had prophesied they would destroy the temple. So here's what Josephus records. This is really interesting. One of his soldiers throws a burning torch into the temple. When he does that, the temple is full of all this gold. Now this is debated but the end of it is not debated As the temple is burning all the gold in the temple some people report that that gold melts And then it gets in the cracks of the stones that form the temple on the top of the temple mount. We're going to go there later. And so all the soldiers, they start looting the temple to get all that gold out of the temple. So even though Titus commanded his soldiers not to destroy the temple, Jesus' prophecy from decades earlier overrides Titus' command to his soldiers. They get in there, and they start – bro, these stones, when we go, they are two to three tons each. So when you go to the Temple Mount, if you look over the west side of the Temple Mount – I took this picture while I was over there. That's what you see looking over the west side of the Temple Mount. What that is, bro, that is – this will send a chill down your spine. Here's what that is. That is every single stone. I repeat, every single stone from the temple that Jesus said right here in Luke 19, quote, one stone will not be left standing upon another. And those dudes ripped apart literally every single stone, tossed them over the side of the west part of the Temple Mount. And to this day, when you go there, you are walking through the rubble of the fulfilled prophecy of Jesus, not one stone. Now, let me just say this. If what he said would happen, did happen. Here's a good news. then what he said will happen is going to happen. Come quickly, Lord Jesus. Amen. That's it right there, man. That's the thing. That's amazing. That's the thing. Wow. We want to talk about Jewish people real quick? Yeah. I want to know. Okay. Just even a little bit of encouragement. I'll do it fast. There's something – I'll use a fancy phrase. Can I sneak this in today? Please. Sensus plenior. What did you say? Sensus plenior, the idea of the fuller sense. and it's the idea and for people that don't know paul what language is that oh it sounds like latin yeah and so it's it's like you're trying to make a joke on me right there you had a no i just you know he whips out if you don't know paul whips out random languages i got makeup earlier for every new italian food when we can make it up for the earlier what we did to you uh but no i'm sorry just keep going again the monterey burger amazing anyways um the idea there can be multiple fulfillments. And so even what you're saying is the idea of, on the one hand, Jesus was predicting an event that was going to happen within a few decades, and then it did happen. But there's another sense that that was a lowercase j judgment. There's a capital J judgment day coming. And so in the same way that the Jews did not heed the warning and then look what happened to them, in the same way, Jesus is still giving to everyone today that, hey, there's going to be a capital J judgment day coming. But the good news is, is that Jesus faced a judgment day so that we wouldn't have to. Amen. Amen. To even go what you said, he went to the cross and took on the wrath of God so it wouldn't come on us. So I think it's also just an encouragement to say, hey, as we're talking about the Jews rejection and some of the theological things, to say, hey, that applies to all of us. That's right. That if we don't heed Jesus' warnings and repent and place our faith in him, that day will come on everyone at one day, and that's the final day. That's right, dude. Okay. Yeah. Now, let's dovetail this one last thing, and then we want to ask this a very, very common question people have, and there's a thread that runs right through this passage. So we're going to get a running start into it, and we want to answer the question, a very common question. Do Jewish people who do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but they do faithfully practice Judaism, are they saved? We want to answer that question, and that's a very important theological question to answer. Let's get a running start into it. So what people will do is they'll point to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and some people, there's actually like a little, It's a weird little theological sect that they'll say, oh, God divorced his people. And then now there is – he has no affection for the Jewish people whatsoever. So let me just do a quick deal. So when this happened in AD 70, everybody started asking the question, hey, what's this mean about God's affection for the Jewish people? Now, okay, now Gentiles are being saved, Acts chapter 10 and all the things. Gentiles are being saved. So, hey, what's the deal here? Here's some homework for pod listeners. Romans 11 answers that question. Really, Romans 9 through 11 is a parenthetical part of the book of Romans to specifically answer questions about how did the Jewish people fit into God's new covenant plan for the unfolding salvation. And here's – I'm going to give a quick postage stamp on this, and then we're going to specifically – I'm going to have Paul – we're going to specifically answer this question. So what you got here is in Romans 11, what Paul does is he says, hey man, he says branches – this is the analogy he uses. He says branches were broken off, and basically he's going back to the Gospel of John analogy of Jesus is the vine and we're the branches. He's going, hey, some of the branches – and he's talking about the Jewish people – were quote-unquote broken off – stop me if I start lying, Paul – so that Gentiles could be grafted in. Now, what he says is really interesting. If you read Romans 11 later, he says this happened to, quote, stir the Jewish people to envy. So this is a whole deal, and this is not – I don't want to – people won't take this racially the wrong way. I don't think they will. But if you just look at history, it's just a fact, dude. I mean you just got to get it – you just got to accept it. The Jewish people are high-performance people. When they harness that for good, it is high-performance for good. There is a radically disproportionate number of Jewish Nobel Peace Prize winners for a reason. And when they harness it for evil, they are high performance for evil either way. So they're just high performance people. Now, essentially what Paul is saying in Romans 11 is he's going, hey, man, I know the psychology of Jewish people. Here's how we're going to get them. They're going to see the blessing of God on Gentile people, and they're going to want it. So he's going, this is what you're going to see. So in order to, quote, stir them to envy, that's what Romans 11 says. Then he says this. So if you're asking the question, what is going to happen to the Jewish people in the future before Jesus returns? He begins answering that question in Romans 11 that dovetails into what's happening in Luke 19. So this is the way I'm going to quote him, Romans 11. He says, for if their rejection, talking about the Jewish people, brought reconciliation to the world. In other words, God, quote unquote, broke off some branches so that he could graft the Gentiles in. All three of us are Gentiles. He says, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? He's nodding. He's giving like a tip of the cap. I think what he's saying is that whenever you begin to see the Jewish people grafted back in and salvation happening in mass among the Jewish people, He's saying when he says it will be life from the dead, he's saying you watch out. The resurrection is right around the corner. That's what he's saying. Then he says this in the very next verse. He says, if the part of the dough offered as first fruits, talking about the Jewish people, why does he say that? Because God began to work to save the Jewish people first in the Old Covenant. If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then so will be the whole lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. And then he says, I'm just going to read it. He says, I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery. Now, if you're listening right here, here's why what I'm getting ready to read is important. If you have ever asked the question, what will be the clear signs we will see before the second coming of Jesus? His feet are going to come right down on that Mount of Olives someday. He's going to crack the skies and everybody's going to be looking east. If you've ever wondered what are some of those clear signs, I'm getting ready to read to you what is one of those clear signs. I do is Romans 11. I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited. Pause. There's this whole weird, weird thing right now. It's like, you know, and people can use the term anti-Semitism like they use racism where it like literally means anything. And it's like if it means anything, it means nothing. But there actually is. There actually are people who are like the Jewish people are uniquely more evil than anybody else. That's like literally in direct defiance of Bible verses from Romans 11. It says, don't be conceited. They are not more sinful than you. They are less sinful than you. We have a command in Romans 11 to, quote, boast not against the branches. And it's like literally these verses. So read your Bibles, people. And then it says, Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Talking about predestination and election there. We should do a whole podcast on that sometime. And then he says this. And I love this, dude. This actually makes me tear up. And in this way, all Israel will be saved. And then he says this, as it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion. He will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I will take away their sins. So what he's saying here is someday right before the return of Jesus, there will be a massive outpouring of the Spirit on the Jewish people and a massive revival. Like massive. So many Jewish people will place their faith in Jesus and bend their knee to his lordship that you will be able to accurately say, all Israel is getting saved. I don't know what's happening, bro. All Israel is getting saved. And let me just say this for our listeners, man. When you see revival among the Jewish people, I'm going to quote the King James, lift up your eyes and look to the heavens for your salvation draweth nigh. If you ever see that in your lifetime, you be ready, brother. That moment's getting ready to come. Wow. So that's something that we look forward to if somebody's asking, but what about now? If somebody is practicing Jew, are they saved? Yeah. So, Paul, let's phrase this clearly. I get this question a lot. Yeah. Are Jewish people that do not believe Jesus was the Messiah but faithfully practice Judaism, are they saved? G. Paul T., you're probably going to be real anti-Semitic here. Go ahead. That's a joke. That's a joke. Yeah, I love you. No. Bring it back in. No. But that's not because they're Jewish. is because no one, I repeat, no one is saved by their ethnicity or by their sincerity, but by their faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God. So everything I just said applies both to Jew and to Gentile. So you could be someone who's a non-Jew, but you are sincere in your religious devotion, but your sincerity doesn't matter. And again, neither does your ethnicity, but only your faith in Jesus Christ. Because that's part of the overarching argument of Romans 9 through 11. So, for example, even in Romans 9, Paul is speaking. I mean, you have to remember, by the way, in this context, Paul is a Jew who had come to faith in Jesus. And also he's speaking to the Roman church, part of who is Gentile, part of who is Jew. That was actually part of what he was writing about because there was conflict. So it's not that literally every single Jewish person had rejected Jesus, but a large part of them had. And so he's trying to explain, hey, why is that? But it's interesting. He says, I'm speaking the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience spares me witness in the Holy Spirit that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen in the flesh. He goes on to say – That's huge. Let me just pause. Yeah. Like I just – if you're listening, don't let that verse slip by you. Paul was literally saying I would give up my seat in heaven if it meant that my kinsmen in the flesh, the Jewish people, could get saved. Here's a side note, a little pop quiz for you. Actually, I'm not going to quiz you. That's annoying. Did you know that Puritan pastors, in order to get ordained, they were asked in their ordination trials, would you be willing to go to hell if it meant that the people in your church would make it to heaven? I did not know that that's – that's crazy. Yeah. You're about to be put on the spot in your ordination process. Yeah, Richard Baxter – in Richard Baxter's old Christian directory. I think that's in there. Go ahead. Well, no, but with that – I mean to that aside, it's like all Christians should have that heart. I mean think of what he just said. I'd be willing to spend eternity in hell if it would mean that they would come to faith in Jesus and be in heaven with him. And so even to your thing, that by the way leaves zero, zero room for anti-Semitism. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Zero. But with that, the question we have to ask is why would he be willing to do that if they were already going to be going to heaven? And then also – Say that one more time. That's a really important point. Why would he have to be willing to do that if they were already going to go to heaven if they were sincere? Because even in Romans and in other books, Paul talks about they were zealous, but it's not enough to be zealous. It had to actually be zealous as a passion towards Jesus Christ because no one comes to God the Father except through his son, Jesus Christ. And also even as you said, Romans 11, they will be saved. Well, again, like will be saved if they already are saved, then there's no point in saying that. And so again, just to be clear, it's not because they're Jewish that they're not saved. It's because ethnicity and sincerity aren't what saves you. It's faith in Jesus Christ for both Jew and Gentile and everyone in between. Dude, it's – I can't say that on the pod. That verse, that Romans 9 verse, that great sorrow and unceasing anguish for my kinsmen of the flesh to be saved. Man, if anybody's ever had – you got a prodigal son or a prodigal daughter or a relative that you love that's like your kinsmen according to the flesh. That Romans 9 verse is a great one to pray. Yes. Dude, here's one, and I want to make sure you agree with this. What a lot of people don't know is that even the Jewish people in the Old Testament before the incarnation of Jesus, the New Testament seems to say they were in a certain way saved by faith in Jesus. Yes. Okay, so let me explain this in two seconds here, and then you can dovetail and tell me where I'm wrong. So essentially what you're getting here is the theology. People really – some people think, oh, in the Old Testament they were saved by works, and in the New Testament we're saved by faith. That's the discontinuity of the covenants. No, no. In both covenants, people were saved not just by faith but by faith in Jesus. Now, you may be going, well, what do you mean, Josh? Jesus hadn't come in the Old Covenant. Well, here's what – so I'm going to read you two verses. John 8, 56. Jesus says, your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day. Listen, he saw it and was glad. Now, how in the world did Abraham, who I think was around 2,000 years before the coming of Jesus, how did he see Jesus' day? Here's how I take it. I want to know if you see it. So when Abraham does the deal where God tells him to take his firstborn son, your only son whom you love, and take him up on the top of the mountain. And he tells his son to, listen, to carry some wood on his back up the top of a mountain. And that the father is going to slay the son. And then his son gets up there after he carries – listen, every little warning light in every Christian's head should be flashing right now. The firstborn son carries wood on his back up a hill to be a sacrifice, and then they get up there, and God provides a substitute. Okay, so I think when Jesus says in John 8, 56, your father Abraham saw my day and he was glad, I think Jesus is saying he saw the foreshadowing of I was going to be the firstborn son that would walk up Golgotha Hill with wood on my back and I would be the substitutionary sacrifice for your sins. And Jesus is saying Abraham was prophetically seeing what was going to happen in Jesus. And then you go a little deeper. Galatians 3.8 says this. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham. Saying, in you shall all the nations be blessed. And when Galatians 3.8 says that, it's talking about the promise that God had given Abraham. and it says through your offspring. And then Galatians points out that, this is really important, that semantically when God promises through your offspring the nations are going to be blessed, the word offspring is singular. So he wasn't saying through all your lineage, Abraham, the world's going to be blessed. He was saying, no, no, there's going to be one of your offspring that's going to come someday. And through that one guy, all nations will be blessed. Guess who that guy was? Jesus Christ. That's right. So what do you think? Is that accurate to say? No, I think that's very much so. I mean, think of it this way, even if you go to the book of Hebrews, because sometimes people say, well, hey, what if Jews don't have faith in Jesus as Messiah, but they have faith in the promises that there would be a Messiah? Hey, they're still having faith. The issue with that is Hebrews talks about how in the Old Testament, those were the shadows that pointed to the substance that has come in Jesus. So whereas to your point in the Old Testament, they could have faith in what God had revealed to them that moment when the substance comes, when the actual thing comes that the shadows are pointing to. At that point, it's not enough to believe in the shadows anymore. You have to believe and have faith in the substance. So even like it says in the book of Hebrews that the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Well, wait a second. Then why did God command it? Well, for a few reasons. Number one would be it showed that sin demands death and it's a costly thing. but also because ultimately Jesus would be the ultimate fulfillment. That was a shadow pointing to Jesus, and his sacrifice was affected not only for people who put their faith in the present and people who actually know him as Jesus Christ, but also people in the past, to your point, who had faith in God and had done those sacrifices to cover sin but didn't know the name of Jesus Christ. That makes sense. I think it's basically that same kind of idea is that they had faith in how God revealed to them at that moment, And then Jesus' sacrifice covered not everybody in the future, but also everybody in the past who had already placed their faith. So all the pre-incarnation Jewish people were saved by placing their faith in the promises that pointed to Jesus. And in that way, even they were saved by faith in Christ. That's what these verses are saying. And if you end up – so that now after Jesus, it's not enough to put your faith in the promises because the person that has promised has come. That's right. So even some of that, because I know we've got to get to, I think the tithing conversation is the idea of, hey, every human being on planet Earth has the same problem. We have all sinned. We all deserve the wrath of God for our sin. We're separated from God because of our sin. And we all have the same solution that is offered to us, which is Jesus Christ took on our sins on the cross, bore the wrath of God and our guilt on the cross. So that also means that we all must place our faith in Jesus then to receive that benefit. So we all have the same problem. This is not just a Jewish problem or gender problem. It's a human problem with a God solution that's been offered that all misplace their faith in to receive it. Let's address real quick because when we have this conversation on this particular parable, there's a lot of misconceptions about money and resources. Let's go real quick through all the different quote-unquote gospels. Yeah, dude. And let's talk about those real quick. There's a lot of misunderstanding about this. So, yeah, yeah. So really what we preach about this week is a disciple is a man or a woman of God who, quote, stewards all that he or she has. And we talked about the difference between a steward and an owner. Go listen to the sermon. I'm not going to pre-preach the sermon. But here's what a lot of Christians miss is there's a tremendous amount of confusion around phrases like prosperity gospel. And, okay, well, then what about all these verses that talk about, you know, with the measure you use that we've made? You shall prosper. Yeah, like it literally says that. Like it literally says that. It's like we didn't get that from nowhere. Yeah, man. So, like, I'll just do this real quick is what Christians have to learn to do is differentiate between. I mean I'm actually going to say five of them, and I'm going to rapid fire these. You've got the prosperity gospel, which is essentially give in order to get. So that's the thing, man. If you sow a seed, you give God 1,000, he'll give you 10,000. And to that I would just say, man, what that does is it produces Christians who actually don't love God. They just use God to get money, cash, and prizes. And I would just say, man, like honestly, if the best thing God can give you is a G-Wagon, he doesn't love you very much. So, you know, that – so number one, you got a prosperity – you got a prosperity gospel that's not good. It creates like very, very, very, very malformed, deformed Christians. Our goal when we give is not to get a whole bunch of stuff back. Our goal is to please God that we love. So then on the other hand, this became like super popular when I was in college, is like I'll call it the poverty gospel. and it's kind of like I'm trying to decide how inside I want to go here. The pendulum swung basically the other way. I feel like I can hear the names in your head. It's kind of like you need to be really radical and that's a misappropriation. That's actually an unfair characterization but that's how people, it's really like man, really the poorer you are the more godly you are. It's kind of the vibe there. And man, I'll just say bro, here's the problem, man. Well, here's what that gospel does is it honestly, it malforms your understanding of the character of God. Like, dude, just I'll get to this here in a second again. Understand, the Bible says all things are to be received with thanksgiving. Sometimes God jobs you and he will take you through seasons of suffering and loss. And it's like, man, naked I came from a mother's womb and naked I shall return. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Sometimes he jobs you. Sometimes he Abrahams you. And there are people where it's like, man, Abraham was a very, very wealthy man. Lydia in the New Testament, very, very wealthy woman. You have that. So God is a good dad that likes to give good gifts to his kids. So we don't want poverty gospel. So those are bad. Now, there's a couple that I'd say are good. One if you go read the book of Proverbs it just says a whole bunch of things that essentially are like hey bro if you work hard you going to do good Like that not prosperity gospel That's the productivity gospel. Like let's get off your butt. Let's swing a hammer. Let's work hard. Let's be diligent. And the way God has designed the world is typically that's going to go pretty good for you. That's the productivity gospel. So, yes, we're good for that. There's also the – I'll call it the provision gospel is that we simply have promises in the New Testament. Can you see all the Ps that I'm working with? I like it. I've been a preacher for a minute, man. You're cooking. I've been a preacher for a minute here. None of these are original to me. By the way, I've always wanted to get this in a pot. If anyone ever hears me say something that sounds like another preacher, it probably came from another preacher. We help each other all the time with stuff. My pastor buddy, Joe B. Martin, who I quote like 30 percent of the time, he's literally texting me during the Passion Conference. Hey, bro, what you got on this? And we're helping you. So anyway, if you ever hear me say something that sounds like another preacher, it probably was because our goal is not originality. Our goal is to be helpful to people. So anyway, where was I? In another P of a – you had the product of the gospel. You just got all these verses where God's like, hey, man, if you're faithful to me with your firsts, I will supply all your needs in Christ Jesus. So that's a provision gospel. Hey, man, that kind of thing. And then the last one that – the last one I would say, I'm trying to – oh, yeah, I just call it – this is a real stretch to keep a P thing going is a presence gospel. I'll allow it. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. P-R-E-S-E-N-T-S, presence. And this just goes back to, hey, dude, like God is a good dad that loves to give good gifts to his kids. And so, yeah, when you're like – you got it right. It's literally in this passage. Because you stewarded the things that I gave you well, I'm going to entrust you with more because I'm a good dad, and I really like giving good gifts to my kids. There you go. Can I have one more? I will allow it. Okay. Okay. Man, I think if you think about it, like in the last 15 years, obviously, I will. I would not do it any other way. Thank you. So I think, you know, if you think about, especially with this new generation today, I would say a lot of people are buying into the popularity gospel. Come on. And the popularity gospel will basically tell you that the more popular you are, the more anointed you must be. Whoopsie daisy. And, you know, especially today, people will assume that if you are grown in popularity, then God must surely be blessing you or you're only as anointed as you are as influential. And so I would say, you know, for somebody that's like probably wondering, you know, is it true? Like, you know, because today everybody wants a little bit more of that. I would say it is true that God can bless you through popularity and influence, especially as a result of wise, humble stewardship. uh if the bible actually says that if you humble yourself god is the one who will lift you up in fact you pastor josh are an example of that uh but what that also means is uh if you are in a season of anonymity or in a season of faithful hidden service or maybe nobody is applauding you or maybe you're getting criticized a lot uh or you're not getting recognized or the recognition that you think that you deserve uh that does not mean that god's blessing and favor is upon you And I think my fear is with this new generation, especially when social media and all the things, if we examine our hearts, most of us care about how do we become more popular, more even perhaps than how can I become more faithful and obedient? And the reality is more likes, more applause, more popularity from other people, that doesn't always mean God is blessing you in what you're doing. Jesus said in Luke 6, Woe to you when everybody is speaking well of you, because that's what they did with the false prophets. John the Baptist's ministry grew smaller because his people were turning to Jesus instead of John. And his response in John 3.30 was, Jesus must increase and I must decrease. And so it's like those two went together. And then Jesus said he was the greatest man of all. And so I think that last false gospel of the popularity gospel would say, you know, you seek fame. The gospel would say, no, you seek to be faithful. That's right. And so I know for me, this is something I'm always wrestling with because I want to make sure that my heart is always in the right place. And I want to live for an audience of one, not of people. Amen, Carlos. That's the – man, if you live for the approval of people, you'll die by their rejection. That's right. That's right. And it's just an inviolable law of life. That's right. That's right. I have one more question for you. I will out. Is tithing a biblical command? This is, you know, so here's what, anytime a pastor answers this, like, oh, of course he's going to say that. Of course he's going to say that. You're incentivized. It's like people think, nevermind. You've been on social media, I'm see. No. So here's, honestly, man, take the church out of it. And what I would say is this is like really personal to me. So what I would say is you've got and we'll just do this quick because I mess with this a little bit in the sermon is honest to man. What I would say is there's a principle that runs its way through the scripture. This is really important that was in place before the giving of the law in the Old Testament was articulated in the law of the Old Testament and is reaffirmed after the law in the Old Testament in the new covenant. The principle is – I just call it the principle of the first. And the principle is God is first. He is, quote, before all things. Theologians call this the preeminence of God. And so what you get is because God is first and God went first, what God asks us to do as an expression of faith in order to teach us and our children to walk by faith. He's like, I just want you to return the first tenth of everything I've entrusted to you back to me. You can fire at me all you want. That's like – I don't know how much – I don't want to deep dive this thing. But it's like it's affirmed before the law is ever given. You have – first of all, that's what – people miss this. That's what the Sabbath is. It's all part of the same principle. Give me the first day of the week, and what you're going to notice is that me plus six days of your productivity can do more than you in seven days without me. It's the same principle. Give me the first, and the rest is going to be blessed. You got that same thing if you go to the Cain and Abel passage. Why did God accept Abel's offering but reject Cain's offering? It's because the Bible says that one of them brought the first, and the other one, it says, in the process of time, he brought his. Obviously, you got it in the Old Covenant. It's like all throughout the giving of the law in Deuteronomy. It says a tithe of everything, which means tenth belongs to me. There's all this stuff that people don't notice. People do not notice how much this principle is in there. So when the children of Israel go into Canaan, God tells them to bring everything when they conquer Jericho. He says bring everything. Bring every single thing in Jericho. It all belongs to me. Now you may be, well, why everything? Why not a tenth? Because Jericho is the first city. Yeah, first. First city. The first belongs to me. That's why Malachi chapter 3 says, hey, man, actually, to not bring me your first is to rob me. Why? Because I am first. So the first belongs to me. And when you keep something that doesn't belong to you, it's actually stealing from it. So you got that. Then Jesus reaffirms it. It's the passage, Matthew 23, 23. Jesus reaffirms. He's like, hey, this is the NLT says like this. He says you should tithe. Yes, Jesus said that without neglecting the way to your matters of the law. And then people miss this. Again, it's the whole principle everywhere, and then we'll shut this thing down and talk to Alibeth. If you ever notice this, when Paul is giving instructions, it's in 2 Corinthians. You got that up? 1 Corinthians 9. He's talking about those who get their food by the temple. Is that the reference you're going? Maybe. Yeah, keep going. Hang tight. So people miss this. He's taking up a collection. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's taking up a collection to bless people at another church. And people miss this. He says – he goes, oh, here's how I want you to do it. On the first day of every week, I want you to set aside your increase. So people miss it. And, man, the big idea – and you go listen to the sermon. We don't need a deep dive. The big idea is, hey, man, this isn't to get something from you. I want to give something to you. I want to teach you and your children. That's important. To walk by faith. And when you return the first to me, the rest is blessed. This is really personal to me. So this – go ahead and toss that from the journal, my journal entry. This is from 2000, and I won't bore you with this guy. When Jana and I first got married, I was a rural Kentucky youth pastor, and my take-home salary was $27,000. and Jana did not have a job because she was like, no, no, we're in ministry together. We're going to figure it out. And so the math didn't math, and we just had to make a decision. Are we going to walk by faith or not? And I was a brand-new husband. I was real scared about it because I'm a spreadsheet guy. And in my journal, this is from 2005 right here, first year of our marriage, we made that decision, and I opened up a journal just like the one sitting on there. And on the top of the page, I just wrote it, God's Financial Faithfulness. I was like, I'm going to write down every time that God takes care of our needs because we chose to step out in faith and return the first. And that right there is what – I wrote down everything he did in the next year. And bro, there's literally – I wish I could go through them, but we need to get Allie Beth on. Bro, there's literally stuff on there like the Kentucky state government had a law on the books that if there were overpaid property taxes and they couldn't find the people who overpaid the property taxes after a certain statute of limitations, they had to give it to the people who now lived in the property. Like God is so powerful, the IRS paid me. It's like there's stuff like that There's just crazy like insane stuff People just dropping stuff in our Our mailbox And it was like dude The reason I get emotional about this Is that listen if you're listening And you're like you're jaded And you're like oh this is a big mega church pastor Of course he said don't give to my church Fine don't give that's fine I don't care I just want you to see I want you to learn to walk by faith Give somewhere else Whatever But what I'll say is you will never, no one will ever convince me that my God is not faithful to provide for his kids when they walk by faith with him. You're never going to convince me. So, yeah, my answer is yes. That's helpful. Hey, we have Allie Beth Stuckey coming up next from the show Relatable. And Hillary Clinton. And by proxy. By proxy. No promises. We're all of sound mind and able body. Stay tuned. Well, hey guys, as you know, Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know God, live free, and make a difference. But here's the thing. Movements, by definition, move. And so, if you're not moving, then are you really being a part of the movement? In fact, somebody once said that too many churches are like football games. 22 people on the field in desperate need of rest being watched by thousands of people in the stands in desperate need of exercise. And so, hey, listen, we refuse to be a church like that. God has given each of us gifts and talents that were made to be a part of his movement. And so if you have not yet joined a serve team, I want to invite you to take your next step like right now. Just text the word serve to 20411 and we'll help you find your spot where you can make a difference in person or online, whether that's serving in our digital ministry teams to help out with projects like this podcast or our greeter team or maybe even serving with our kids team whichever serve team you are being called to go ahead and do that right now thank you for being obedient to god's calling in your life and let's keep doing this together ladies and gentlemen welcome alibeth thank you so much it's really we got alibeth stuckey and by proxy hillary clinton uh that's true my bestie she's my good good friend hillary she read my book i'm sure we'll have a chat about it soon uh so before i we get into like what this is yeah did you think she actually read any of it i think that her millennial staffers probably read it and they put it together she might have scanned it quickly and approved it so i don't really think hillary there's no way she read it i don't think so i hope i would love to send her a signed copy uh but yeah something makes me doubt me too so what i will say first of all for all for live free nation um all of you should be listening to ali best uh podcast it's called relatable janna and my girls listen to it on their drives to school well thank you so like so i'll just give a heads up especially for parents this is how we use it because my kids don't want to hear me talk about all these things all the time we do that dinner dinner table yeah is what if you're unfamiliar with ali's uh podcast relatable. She does probably one of my favorite jobs of anybody in America at the intersection of faith, culture, politics, all the issues you honestly you're thinking about and your kids are processing school. Yeah. So what we like to do is Janelle toss it on during a drive and our kids listen. And so they were like, you're seeing Miss Allie today. Yeah, that's so sweet. Well, I'm so thankful for what you do. I was thinking about this last night, that clear pastors make podcasters jobs easier. Like I want to be an auxiliary feature in a Christian's life. They're already getting their clarity from their pastor, from their husband, from other teachers in their day-to-day life. And they can listen to Ali Stuckey on the side to help clarify some things. What I don't want, and unfortunately what the state is in so much of Christian America today, is that people are having to look to podcasters as their main source of clarity, besides the word of God, because they go to church on Sunday and their pastor dances around every issue, not even just politics, biblical issues like gender, marriage, abortion, things like that. And they're like, OK, well, that was fine. But like, what should I actually think about it? And so you make my job a lot more fun and a lot easier because you're bringing clarity to your congregants in a way that only really a shepherd can. Well, that's very mutual. It's like a little pastor cheat code to point your people to other voices that are like biblically reinforcing what they're hearing from their spiritual father. And so we're very grateful for you. Well, thanks. Likewise. All right. Let's talk about Hillary Clinton. Let's do it. Now, before we do this, I just need to ask a clarifying question. Are you of sound mind and body? I'm of sound mind. Yes. Checking myself. Okay. Yes. I'm good. All right. Good, good, good. Yes. Yes. I love to be alive. I just want to say that. Yeah, that's good. Apropos of nothing. I love living. Have a great life. My family. Yeah. Unfortunately, I have to announce that. Okay. You're in the crosshairs. Good. Just for clarity's sake. Yeah. So for listeners who don't know what we're talking about, it was, I think, last week, Hillary Clinton wrote a piece in The Atlantic. Yes. It was kind of like an Allie Bestuckie hit piece. It was a little bit. So let me take our people real quick, listeners, through what the piece was. And then I want to ask you, the first thing I want to ask you is why you think progressives are like aggressively targeting specifically this thing you're saying. OK, so if you don't know what we're talking about. So here's what happens. Let's go to that first one. So this is last week. Hillary Clinton tweets. I believe that Christians like me, which I have questions, by the way. Yeah, wow. I believe that Christians like me and people of faith more generally have a responsibility to stand up to the – this phrase is hilarious. To the extremists who use religion to divide our society and undermine our democracy. I think that's us. I think that's us. In fact, I'm going to get that on my office plaque. Instead of senior pastor, it's going to say extremist who uses religion to divide society. And undermine democracy. And undermine democracy. It's a little long for a sign, but I like it. I think our team can fit it. Yeah, I think so, too. So she tweets this. Now, before I go on to what specifically you said that she was not super happy about, what is it like? What happens to your phone in your day when Hillary Clinton tweets about you? Well, I can tell you I was having a nice little chat with my dad and my husband talking about life. And then my phone starts buzzing. I flip it over and I have all of these texts in all caps saying Hillary Rodham Clinton wrote an article about you in the Atlantic. And my publicist said, don't say anything until you call me. So I called her. We talked about it. And, you know, it's just another one of those moments where someone decides that what you're saying is uniquely dangerous to the constituents or voters that they're trying to get. And so we talked about how I would respond to it. OK, so your phone blows up. So then let me take people through what she says. So go to the this was the article. The article was titled Maga's War on Empathy. The crisis in Minneapolis reveals a deep moral rot at the heart of Trump's movement. Do you call yourself Maga? How do we how do you relate to that term? Well, I don't want to give it away. But later, she actually says that I'm the commissar of Maga morality, which if there's anything for a sign, I would love to put that on my set in my room, maybe bumper sticker or something like that. But no, I don't really refer to myself as a set. I don't either. Just a Christian conservative. Yeah. That's me too. Okay. So then this is what she says. I'm going to read this, and I want you to let's just jump off responding. Why is this specifically aggravating to her? And respond to what she says. This is what she says. Bishop Budd. And by the way, is that the woman that did the thing when Trump visited the church service? Yes. Yes. And I can after you read this paragraph, I'll give more context because Clinton is very, very dishonest in what she describes as my response to her. Shocking. OK, Bishop Budd was immediately vilified. One Republican congressman said, quote, she should be added to the deportation list. The pastor and influencer Ben Garrett weren't his followers. This snake is God's enemy and yours, too. She hates God. And as people, by the way, people listening, this is like a Bishop Budd was like a super progressive, like like in not any meaningful sense, a Christian, if I understand. Yes. Yes. This was the inaugural weekend for Trump. And they're all sitting in this church and Bishop Budd goes in there and starts chastising him and says, hey, you know, there are trans kids out there who are afraid for their lives. That's right. And that was the one where J.D. Vance is looking over at his wife like what is going on? And so that's what everyone is responding to here. She continues. The right wing. This is Hillary Clinton. The right wing Christian podcaster, Allie Beth Stuckey, called the sermon, quote, toxic empathy that is in complete opposition to God's word and in support of the most satanic, destructive ideas ever conjured up. Toxic empathy, exclamation point. I love how she writes this. Yeah. Exclamation point. What an oxymoron. I don't know if the phrase reflects moral blindness or moral bankruptcy, but either way, it's appalling. Yeah. What she doesn't say is what I was responding to, which is what I just specified earlier, that this Bishop Budd person was talking about transgenderism and kids. It's not possible for a person to be born in the wrong body. There's no such thing as a trans kid. It is evil. People are getting permanently sterilized. They're becoming permanently infertile. They're butchering. Their body is being pumped with cross-sex hormones. It is one of the most satanic and destructive ideas ever conjured up. Amen. And so Hillary Clinton doesn't say that's what I'm responding to. She basically says Bishop Budd went out there and told us to love our enemies. And then she puts my response is that's toxic empathy. All right. I want to I want you to explain a second what you mean by toxic empathy here in a second. But let's continue because there was another part of the article where you were mentioned. She goes on. This is exactly the kind of mainstream Christian view that enrages Allie Beth Stuckey, the author of Toxic Empathy, who styles herself a voice for Christian women, has more than a million followers on social media. You get a lot more than that, if I understand right. In between lifestyle pitter-patter and her demonization of IVF treatments, she warns women not to listen to their soft hearts. This, here it is, this commissar of MAGA morality targets other evangelicals whose sympathy, she warns, has left them open to manipulation. Maybe they recognize the humanity of an undocumented immigrant family and decide that mass deportation has gone too far, or they make space in their heart for a young rape survivor forced to carry a pregnancy to term and start questioning the wisdom and morality of total abortion bans. It's all toxic to Stucky. Alabeth Stucky, what's that you? So many things. I would love to know what she thinks is lifestyle pitter patter. I've started to think maybe I should do lifestyle pitter patter because I don't even know what it means. I might have a whole segment on my podcast of lifestyle pitter patter for Hillary Clinton. The next thing, the demonization of IVF, obviously, that's a mischaracterization. I think all life matters from the point that there are embryos onward and how we treat them matters. IVF treatments can very often lead to unethical ways to treat those babies. And then moving on, she actually gives me perfect examples of what toxic empathy is. We should see the humanity in the illegal immigrant. That scene of humanity shouldn't lead to us advocating for open borders. We should have compassion for the rape survivor. That should not lead us to advocating for the death penalty for a baby because of the circumstances surrounding his or her conception. Yeah, that's right. So, OK, see, you're diving right into this. Can you explain what is toxic empathy? Allie Beth, why do you hate empathy so much? Yeah. So it's funny. I was thinking about this the other day. Progressives, they talk about toxic masculinity. They talk about toxic positivity. And if you say, well, masculinity isn't toxic, they'll say, no, no, no, not all masculinity, but this form of masculinity is toxic. And yet when I say toxic empathy, they pretend that I am saying all compassion and all sympathy and all kindness and all love is toxic. It's not. I say that empathy becomes toxic when it leads you to do three things. That's affirm sin, validate lies, or support destructive policies. Wait, will you say this one more time, those three things? Yes what it teaches you or leads you rather to affirm sin validate lies or support destructive policies And I can kind of explain what this looks like if you feel so deeply for the person who thinks that he trapped in the wrong body And he says, the only way that I can be liberated and happy and fulfilled and live my life is if I can identify as a woman and go into women's bathrooms and play on women's sports teams. If you feel so deeply how that person feels, because that's what empathy means to feel what someone else feels, then that could lead you to one affirming his sin, which is pretending to be something that you're not denying your biological reality, validating the lie that you can become the opposite sex and then supporting the destructive policy of infringing upon the rights and the fairness of women and girls. And so that's what that looks like. And we see that across everything. We see that on immigration. We see that on abortion. We see that on crime. empathy can actually lead us to making really stupid decisions. So just for clarity, you are clearly not saying, man, having compassion and care and empathy for people who are hurting, you are not saying that's toxic. It's actually just the opposite of that. There's this book called Against Empathy, which is even stronger than mine, but it's by a secular psychologist, Paul Bloom. He wrote it in 2016, and he argues really that empathy in general is not that much of a helpful feeling. He says that there's this phenomenon, especially among young people, that the higher you rate on empathy, the crueler you are to those outside of your group. He calls it full of empathy and mean as hell, if I can say that on this podcast. And so what he says is when you feel so deeply for one person that you see as the victim, maybe it's the person being picked on. You perceive everyone outside of that group as opposed to that person. So you justify cruelty against them. We see this when it comes to the immigration debate. Someone who is for deportations, a progressive might see is opposed to that little five-year-old boy who is being detained by ICE. They would justify then cruelty, hatred toward you because you have become the enemy of the person that they feel empathy toward. So I actually think that, yes, being led by what Christians are supposed to be led by, the truth in love, is just a much better and more compassionate way to navigate these complex issues. So I want to know what you think about this. I heard somebody say, first of all, on the Paul Bloom book, I've got a pastor who will remain nameless right now. He's a fairly well-known guy. He's in a very progressive city. He told me – this is a high compliment to you. He told me that that Paul Bloom book is the gateway drug to Allie Bestucki's book. I love it. And what he said is, I can't get my people to read Allie Best's book. This is a very progressive city. But he's like, I can hand them Bloom. Yeah. And he's essentially saying the same thing as Allie, but they'll receive it because he's progressive. And secular. And secular. Yeah. And then I can get him over here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. Thank you, Paul Bloom. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So you responded. I'm going to read something you said. You responded – you wrote an article in the Free Press. Is Barry Weiss still over there? She is. I think it's a part of CBS now. Yeah. You responded to the Free Press. Here's what you said. You said, she just accused me of thinking empathy is a sin. That's not my argument. But there's a reason she's mischaracterizing me, writes Allie Bestucki. Why is she mischaracterizing you? And why is it that like this obviously is so upsetting to Hillary Clinton and just really secular progressivism in general that they're choosing we have to destroy this target? Why do you think that is? Do you fish? I fish. Yes, I do. OK, so my husband and I, we like to dabble in fly fishing. And what I have learned, I know, I know you. I know it's surprising. I didn't think we could like you even more. I know. Here we are. That's great. Okay, so what I know and what everyone knows who has ever fished before is that bait only works if the fish doesn't know it's bait. It has to look realistic. It has to look like something that they would want to eat. This is a great analogy. And so as long as progressives can convince women that the images, that the headlines, that the stories that they're showing them are real examples of where their compassion needs to be pulled, they can effectively persuade them. But if women can spot the decontextualized image of that little kid in the blue hat or can spot a headline as I think they're trying to manipulate my emotions and I feel like they're not telling me the whole story. That's propaganda. Or my empathy is actually leading in a toxic direction because now I've forgotten about the other person on the other side of the moral equation. Oh, this story about this woman who had to carry this baby has made me forget about the humanity and the rights of that little baby inside the womb. Maybe my empathy has become toxic. When you name something, when you show people this is bait, this is not real, they're not going to latch onto the hook. So that's why you think they're like – I mean they're aggressive. It's like we have to stop this. You think it's because they do like their whole movement is running on that thing. Yes, it is the sharpest tool they have in their toolbox because we know this. You do this so well. Whenever people are manipulated by a decontextualized image that grabs at your heartstrings, that punches you in the gut, it is really hard for us to come alongside that emotionally evocative image with logic. Because you've got to get people to stop. You've got to get people to think. You've got to get people to shut off their emotions for a second and just think logically. So much harder to do than to make people feel. And so if we take away that really sharp tool that they have in their toolbox, they don't really have much because progressivism isn't logical. That's fat, dude. So you actually you said something that I talked to with my kids about at the dinner table. I'm pretty sure you said this. Weren't you the one that was like a week and a half ago? You said you said they don't want you to think your way through things. They want you to feel your way through things. Yes. They don't want you to think your way through politics. They want you to feel your way through politics. Yep. So then we're talking about it at the dinner table and my daughter Eliana, the one I was just showing pictures of before we started. In school, she's doing – she's learning the ethos, pathos, logos thing. And then it's the – so toxic empathy, I've heard it – maybe you said it – defined as they try to get the pathos to override your logos. Yeah. Which is the – obviously pathos is emotion. Logos is logic. So let me play on your pathos, emotion to override any logical thinking. Yes. Accurate. Yeah, I would say that's totally accurate. And I will just say this is not a demonization of all emotion. But the problem with empathy and specifically toxic empathy is that it blinds you to reality and morality. And so actually it's not that you're so compassionate. It's that you are so narrow in your feeling that you forget about this person over here. I mean we see it with abortion all the time. And wow, I feel so deeply for the story of this woman that's written about in NPR that she was poor. She had eight kids. Her child was diagnosed with this life-limiting anomaly, and she's forced to carry this child to term. Think about all the financial, physical, and emotional hardships she's going through because of this draconian pro-life law. But you have completely forgotten about the baby on the other side of the moral equation who, if it weren't for that pro-life law, would be poisoned, would be dismembered, would be discarded like toxic waste. But instead, because of that legislation, that baby got to be born and held and loved and named and buried. And so I'm actually asking people to expand your compassion and to expand your virtue when you're navigating politics rather than only allowing your outrage and your empathy to be dictated by what the liberal media says it should be by. So for listeners, like just, you know, most of the – a lot of people listening to podcasts are my church members. So like let me just pastor you for a second. What Alabama is talking about right now is the book of 1 Peter. By the way, this is a command and not a suggestion. It says, gird up the loins of your mind. So what she's talking about right now is, hey, man, whenever you're wading into something that is high emotion, when emotion gets high, logic tends to get low. And what the book of 1 Peter is saying is, hey, man, whenever you're in that spot, you need to be a man or a woman of God who can – okay, let me check my emotion for a second. Let me quote, gird up the loins of your mind. What that means is put your mind in a position to do battle. That's what the analogy is. And this is exactly what Alibeth is encouraging you as a man or woman of God to do. Okay, right now I'm not feeling my way through something. I'm asking the question, hmm, what does the word of God say about this? So what you just did, because I want to give my people clear targets. How much time I got? Okay. I want to give my people clear targets on this so that they can do what you said and know when it's happening. So you just gave – I'm going to ask you to give two more examples of how, quote-unquote, toxic empathy gets weaponized by secular progressives to advance evil legislation. You just gave one, and I'll just reiterate it. On, for instance, abortion is, hey, let's tell a story of a 16-year-old girl that was raped or taken advantage of. And then she tried to – she was not able to receive an abortion, and so she had medical complications and she died, which if I actually remember right, there was a story like that that wasn't actually true. But that was huge a couple years ago. And what they'll do is – so think about emotionally gripping story, which by the way is legitimately emotionally gripping. Like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? But to stir up your emotions so great that actually you're willing to disobey commands of God like, hey man, that is terrible, but you shall not murder is still a thing. Right. Okay, so that's one example. Can you give two more? Do the however you want to take it on gender, marriage and sexuality. You can go trans, however you want to. And then do the immigration thing. Just quick examples in each of those. Yeah. So on the abortion one, that's a good example and something that we haven't said very clearly. So someone tells a story about this woman. She went to the emergency room. She was having a miscarriage. She wasn't able to get the care that she needed. and so she died. That is a legitimately sad story. We should feel so sad for that woman. And so I'm not trying to arrest your emotions there. I'm not saying that you shouldn't feel for that woman. But when we feel so deeply, we tend to accept whatever narrative or accusation is attached to that. So the narrative and accusation that is attached to that story is, well, it's because Roe v. Wade was overturned. That's because of pro-life legislation. And what just needs to happen in that moment for us to say, is that true? Wait, how do I know that's true? Wait, how does this law connect to this over here? Well, what does the law actually say? Oh, I see that the law has a protection for miscarriage care. And actually, legally, she could have gotten the care that she needed. So those two things aren't connected. That takes more time. That takes more diligence. But that is what Christians are called to do because we are given this incredible mind that can think. And that is true about all things. Certainly, that was true with the little boy, Liam. We see this story. It evokes our emotion. We should feel for him. I do feel for him. But immediately we just buy whatever story is attached to that image that he was kidnapped and used as bait without even asking. How do I know that's true? That's not what happened. Yeah. Yes. And you've done such a good job of debunking that. They cared for this little boy. The father apparently ran away and all of that terrible thing. You should feel for him. But that doesn't mean you accept whatever story is immediately attached to him. So when it comes to, for example, gender, I kind of already gave this example earlier. You hear this story, and this is told all across the news, of this child who feels like, oh, my gosh, I've always been trapped in the wrong body. And I can only be happy. And, in fact, I won't commit suicide only if I can get cross-sex hormones, if I can go on puberty blockers, if I can have some kind of surgery to make me look like the opposite sex. Yeah, it's the, hey, do you want a living son or a dead daughter? Yes, totally, which is not true. And I've talked to parents who are completely duped by that and allowed their minor to get the double mastectomy. And that is, of course, very compelling to us. We don't want anyone to feel like they're uncomfortable in their skin. We want them to be happy when we want them to be free and to feel fulfilled. The problem is that stops us from remembering the consequences that they are going to bear on their body. Like I have talked to woman after woman on my couch on my show. They were a teenager. They felt like they should have been a boy because of the empathy and the love of the people in their life. They were allowed to go on cross-sex hormones, get a double mastectomy. I can think of three girls off the top of my head who then realized later on, oh, wait, I'm not actually a boy, detransitioned or living who they are as women. But all of them are devastated that they cannot breastfeed their babies. They're married. They have kids. Their milk comes in not to get too graphic. But as a mom, like I can just imagine how devastating this is. And they can't breastfeed their kids because of the toxic empathy of the people in their lives who affirmed them into making that choice. And so on all of these things, we just have to remember that there are motivations of people who want to capture our consciences and extort our emotions for very nefarious purposes. And we as Christians have to ask a couple of questions like, what is true, factually true, scientifically, historically, all of that, but also what is biblically true? At the end of the day, it's not about the stories that can pull on our heartstrings. It's what does God say? For example, on gender, we only have to go 27 verses into the entire Bible to read that God made us male and female. So no matter what someone feels about their gender or their identity, we can look to God's word for that clarity. And agreeing with God is actually the most loving thing we can always do. Yeah. Do the you've you've teased it. But because it's the one that's in everybody's head right now, apply it to the immigration thing. How does toxic empathy get weaponized to advance potentially destructive policies? Yeah, well, we hear the story and sometimes it's true, maybe. And a lot of times it's not true. The story of the person who was here totally innocently. They've worked here for 20 years. And then mean old Donald Trump and his ICE agents come along and deport them, separates them from their family. And we only hear those stories. And that makes us think, well, maybe all of these deportations are unjust. Maybe we shouldn't enforce these immigration laws. These are people who are our neighbors and our friends. But then when you look at the other side of this, OK, if we weren't to enforce this law, who gets to stay? I think of Kate Steinle, for example. She was the 30-year-old woman in San Francisco going on a walk with her father one afternoon and an illegal immigrant who had already been deported five times but was able to come back and stay because of the 2015 San Francisco Sanctuary City laws that actually shielded him from deportations. He stole a gun. He shot her in the chest. Her last words were, help me, Daddy, and she died. When I think of Lakin Riley, when I think of Molly Tibbetts, when I think of Jocelyn Nungere down in Houston, I think of all of these people who would still be alive if we enforced the policies that people today are saying are so draconian. And the fact of the matter is, yes, we can have one side of the story that's sad. The person who, besides crossing the border illegally, hasn't committed a crime and now has to go back to Mexico. We can look at the sad story of Kate Steinle and Molly Tibbetts. But at the end of the day. We have to just look at what is actually true. And the truth is, is that every nation has a right to sovereignty, has a right to legitimacy, has a right to borders. We see that principle all the way throughout Scripture. God being a God of order, nations and laws and borders were all his idea. And so sad stories aside, it's just legitimately the right legal and biblical thing to do to have borders and to enforce that how a government sees fit. But Allie, you're training Christians to be heartless. What say you? I actually want them to have much softer hearts towards the people who are truly vulnerable. I just want them to remember that Lake and Riley is also their neighbor. I want them to remember that the unborn child is their neighbor. I want them to remember that the little girl who just lost a scholarship because there's a boy competing against her in track is also her neighbor. I want them to remember that the children that are being forced to be raised in fatherless and motherless homes because we've redefined marriage, that's also our neighbor. I want them to know that the people in communities that are now getting murdered and assaulted because of soft on crime social justice policies, that those are our neighbors too. I want you to expand your compassion, but then I don't want you to be led by your feeling. I want you to ask yourself, what is politically true and what is biblically true? What does the Bible say about gender? about not murdering people, about life inside the womb, about the definition of justice and how the state should work in the authority of the state and about borders. And we can have debates about those things. I think that's fine. But what we cannot do is just be led by our emotion, which is being weaponized against us for very nefarious purposes. Man. So, again, I'm just I'm verbally highlighting things for our people. So you every one of you, because we have we got a ton of people who are like brand new Christians. that are not Christians yet, listen to the free. So you just need to know this. You're going to have to make a decision at some point in your life. Does the word of God stand in authority over my feelings or do my feelings stand in authority over the word of God? And so you're going to have to make that decision. So does the word stand over my feelings and judge and evaluate what I feel or do my feelings stand in authority over the word of God and judge and evaluate what the word of God says? And then you decide based on your feelings what you accept and what you reject. So for instance, to what Allie just said, man, if you're listening to the example of that, is, hey man, oh my gosh, that really rips my heart out about the 16-year-old that was seeking an abortion. I have feelings about that. Okay? I understand you have feelings about that. But does the word of God have authority over your feelings? Or do your feelings have authority over the word of God? You have to make that choice. And we all know the right choice. So, Allie Beth, let me just finish and kind of do some quick hitters with you. Sure. Okay, let's quick hitters here. So, you know, you can take this wherever direction you want. Let's go two to three sentences on these things. Yeah. All right. Situation right now with ICE. I am praying for ICE officers. I'm just very thankful for people who go out there and are willing to enforce totally legitimate immigration law. And that doesn't mean that you justify every single thing that every officer does. That's right. Of course. But I'm just I'm very thankful for them and we should be praying for their protection and praying for their morale. It's a very hard time to be doing your job in that arena right now. There has been speaking of. So it's not just that that the empathy when progressives do empathy, it's not just that it's toxic. Jan and I've talked about this. It's also selective. Totally. So it's the nature of empathy. We're going to highlight this person needs empathy and hide these people who are also deserving of empathy. So like heads up, there is an over eleven hundred percent increase on violent assaults on officers, on ICE officers in the last. Well, hey, man, most of those guys are dads that are risking their lives and making $55,000 doing it. So it's like, hey. And arresting sexual offenders, some of the most grotesque crimes that you have ever heard of are being committed by the people, not all of them, but a lot of the people that they are arresting and deporting. So thank God for ICE. Yeah. And again, we're not – neither of us are giving a blanket approval to literally every action of literally every ICE agent. That's not what we're doing. Or anyone. No, he's doing that. Epstein files. Okay. Sin makes you stupid. And when you covet power or people, you end up getting way too close to criminal activity and perversion than maybe you originally intended. And yeah, that's one of the lessons that you take away from this. And also I read an article a few years ago that I thought was so interesting that the reason why we have a rightful revulsion to Jeffrey Epstein is because of Christian civilization. That's really good. That's really good. Yes. Christianity and Christian morality and the definition of marriage is between one man and one woman to be fruitful and multiply. lie, that precludes pedophilia. And so there have been a lot of Jeffrey Epstein's throughout history in all different cultures. It's the vestiges of the Christian conscience here in America that make us rightfully hate Jeffrey Epstein. That's fantastic. So listen, if you did not just pick up on what she just said, that's brilliant. Essentially, what she's saying is, hey, man, throughout history, nobody really cared about people messing around with 13 year olds until Christianity came along. Still in many countries today that are non-Christian. That's right. Dude, That's fantastic. OK, midterms. What do you think? Oh, I think Republicans got some work to do. I think we got some messaging, like messaging work to do to make sure that people know that this is if it is the party of justice and the party that is doing its best through its capacity to make your life freer and safer. Preferred next presidential candidate. Ooh, that's tough. You know, I really like J.D. Vance. I think he could do a good job, but I love Marco Rubio. I love the guy. I like him. I like him more than I did in 2016, actually. He does like seven jobs. Yeah, I know. He does. I think he's doing great at all of them. I got a pastor buddy who will also remain nameless for the second that he was in his small group. And this guy tells me like, no, no, he's like real deal. Well, at Charlie's Memorial, he went up there. Oh, he crushed. What is happening? I mean, just the full gospel. He can't be the commissar of MAGA morality because that's me. But he can have every other role, I guess. We're going to send her a plaque. Thank you. I want it. Ladies and gentlemen, Alibeth Stuckey, all of you need to be listening. I would encourage you, especially if you have daughters, with your daughters to her podcast Relatable. The Howard team are big fans. You should be, too. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. Thanks so much. Thank you.