Week 1 (Day 274-280): Is Jesus less than the Father?

Hey Bible readers! Welcome to the Bible Recap Deep Dive. In the Bible Recap Deep Dive, we cover one week's content. We take everything we read that week, we choose four or five questions from the Bible Recap Recaptains Facebook group, and we dig a little deeper into those. And so we're here with our hosts for this podcast. We've got Kirsten McCloskey. Hello! Emma Daughter. How's it going? And I'm Terri Lee Cobble. I'll be here from time to time. But these are the two who are going to carry you through the deep dive every week. So without further ado, will you take us into our first question, Kirsten? I'd love to. Thanks. Alright, so our first question is coming from day 274. The question is, does Jesus being called the only Son from the Father mean that He's less than the Father? And this is coming from John 114. John 114, we read that voice. Yeah, I'd love to. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. Good question. I think really what the question is getting at, or the sentiment behind it is, is Jesus less than God? Did He become divine? Like, if He came, if He proceeds from the Father, He came from God, does that mean that He's smaller? He's not as equally God? Like, what is that insinuating? And the short answer to this question really is, no. Jesus is not lesser. He didn't become divine. He's always been divine. He's existed before time and is co-eternal with the Father. This is weird because even the Word's Father and Son suggests that one predated the other. Yeah, and I think that's kind of the heart behind why maybe someone reading this would think, wait, am I understanding the Trinity right or all of them equal? Yeah, so the title Son of God, it's suggesting His relationship to the Father, but not His rank necessarily. So when I was going through this seminary training program, we learned three key words to describe the Trinity, unity, equality, and distinction. So the idea is unity, hero Israel, the Lord our God is one, the persons of the Trinity are one, equality, they are all equally God in distinction. They play different roles. So the Son died on the cross, the Holy Spirit didn't die on the cross. So there is a distinction between the persons, but it doesn't mean that they're lesser. Jesus was not created because He's the one who created all things. Yes, exactly. And so He could not have been created as He is the one who has made it all. And that's a question that's, Church History has been asking that question for years in the fourth century. Kirsten, you've probably learned this in your studies. There was a guy named Arius and he claimed that Jesus became God or wasn't fully God that He was created. Yeah, which is wrong. This belief system became known as Arianism as you rightly exited in the Council of Nicaea and 325, was it? They said, hey, Jesus is of the same essence of the Father. And that was a really, really important distinction. Yeah. And I was thinking, when I was thinking about this question and kind of thinking about like the application and why this is so important, we need to know the essentials of the faith and the Trinity and the reality that God exists as three persons, one God, is essential to the faith. And that's something that was proved at these councils, that's something that Church History has said this is what we believe as Christians. Yeah, and it's vital. Without the Trinity, you don't have Christianity. Exactly. Like it is a vital doctrine. And it is one that marks true Christians is the belief in the Trinity. And that unity, that diversity, those things that make God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit, united, but also distinct. And the fact that they have all their co-equal, their eternal, and the Son is the person of the Trinity who is embodied to show us what God the Father is like, which I think is so beautiful because a lot of times when we're reading through the Bible, there's this idea that like Old Testament God is angry and mean. And like once Jesus shows up on the scene, that's when God gets nice, you know, and that's not the case. We read through the Old Testament and we see the character of God is consistent, Father, Son, and Spirit. Their character is consistent, their will is consistent, and they all work together to achieve the same goal. They just have different roles in fulfilling that. Yeah. And that's a great distinction because we need to believe that each person of the Trinity is fully God, but the way that we're seeing them do their works, always unified, but in these different roles. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you have to believe that they're one, because each person has distinct roles, but if they're not one, that's polytheism. Right. And that's not what we believe, right? I also think that the question being specifically about Jesus is so significant because if Jesus was, if he was a created being, he could not have born or bared the infinite weight of God's wrath on the cross. Like if Jesus was a created guy and he wasn't fully God, then everything about what we believe falls apart. Right. It's the Son of God. It's Jesus who is God who took the punishment we deserved. And so this idea, this theological concept, it really is essential to the gospel itself. It's important. Right. And Jesus shows up all throughout the Old Testament. Yes. We see, if you tie together Genesis one, John one and Colossians one, you see this thread of Jesus being the one who did the manual labor of creation. God the Father issued the creation command. God the Son did the manual labor. God the Spirit sustained everything. And he was there at the beginning. And so he actually shows up throughout the whole Old Testament. Christophanes, these prophecies of him, he was not, he did not just show up in a manger in Bethlehem. In the second half of the story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's good. Kirsten, anything you'd add? Well, I think that depending on maybe your church tradition or depending on how new of a Christian you are or just kind of how much you know, I think that really it's worth even diving deeper than obviously what we just did in this overview to understand the Trinity. Again, because it's so essential to what we believe and it's so unique. And there's kind of a lot that you have to wrap your head around. And we want to make sure that as we go through scripture, we're not losing someone in the Trinity because we're only focusing on this one person. So like, I only talk about the Holy Spirit. I only talk about Jesus. I only talk about God the Father. There is such unity. And I think that we really miss that sometimes in the way that we talk about God. Yeah. You were not intending to do this, but you did set me up perfectly to share with me. I was thinking about it. I thought about it. And I was trying to figure out like, how am I going to take it? That's so, so thoughtful. I wrote a Bible study about the Trinity called, He's Where the Joy is. I wrote a regular book about the Trinity called, The Joy of the Trinity. So if your person who loves Bible studies, you can do that Bible study. It is a six session or seven session Bible study, depending on how you approach it. Or there's just the book itself. And I, I agree. This is, it's not, it's not only essential. It's just so rich. It's such a rich doctrine that once you grasp more of the Trinity and it seems like it seems unattainable to like fully understand the Trinity and you're right. It's, it's, it's unattainable to fully understand it. What's the quote? He who tries to understand the Trinity will lose his mind. He who fails to understand the Trinity loses his soul. I remember that. You know, yeah. I love that. Yeah. And so we can't understand everything about the Trinity, but we can understand more about the Trinity. And the more we learn about God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Spirit, more it impacts and enriches our relationship with the triune God. And so I, I am cheering you on to learn more about the Trinity and like you can, you can understand the Trinity more. I'd love to help you do that. You know, and maybe this is also giving you a launching bad for deeper study. Speaking of diving deeper, we got to move to the next question. All right. It comes from day 277. And really, I think the passage in question is Matthew three, but we're, we're talking about the Pharisees. Who were they and why are they the quote unquote bad guys? Good. That's a good question. The Pharisees show up a lot. So let's get, yeah, some idea of like who we're dealing with here. Right. Okay. So some just kind of basic things about the Pharisees. So they were the largest and most important religious group during the New Testament. There are other groups that our readers are going to run into. So we've got Sadducees, Essenes, Herodians. Yes. Pay attention to those, but the Pharisees are really going to be kind of the biggest players and the biggest opponents to Jesus. Um, Pharisee means separated ones. And so this can mean like from the crowd or also in order to study, they separated themselves in order to study. Um, it can be separated from uncleanness. And they basically were the ones that controlled the synagogue. And they had a lot of sway with the Jewish population, which we see. And so I think maybe the question too is why, why do we see them as the bad guys? What's going on with that? Do we like calling them bad guys? I mean, Jesus, I know some people like come to the defense of the Pharisees because they like they wanted to pursue holiness, but Jesus calls them whitewashed tombs. So I think that's fair to call them the bad guys. You know, you brood of viper. Right. I think that was the harshest words in the New Testament are for the Pharisees. Yep. Um, and so I think that's fine. But you could sum up like, okay, why are Jesus's words to the Pharisees harsh? Why, why is what you just said true? Matthew 23, three, they don't practice what they preach. Like that's, you pointed out, yeah, and like separated for study. Yeah. We're so well studied on the law, but then when it came to living it out, they missed the heart. They fell short. Yeah. And on top of that, they added their own laws that work God's laws and treated them as though they were equivalent to God's laws. And so, you know, we talk about this in TBR of that building a fence around the law. And so like, if the speed limit is 55, they say the speed limit is 45 and write a ticket to anybody doing 45 to 54. And so they put this heavier burden on people than even God himself put on people. And that was really oppressive to people. Yep. So not only would they not do, they weren't only not practicing what they preached, but they were also adding to God's words in a way that missed the heart of God altogether. Yep. It made it look like righteousness was something you earn, which is another problem. There's just, yeah, it's, it's the difference between striving and resting in the sufficiency of Christ, because they're, they're being presented. They're, they're seeing Jesus face to face. They're being presented with his sufficiency. And then they're saying, no, we're going to keep striving. We're going to keep trying to earn this ourselves. We're going to keep, we're going to keep, we're going to keep, and you just can't do that. Can I just stop on that and say how many people in the church might still feel like that today, that they might feel like, well, Jesus saved me. And now it's up to me to maintain that salvation through my good works or to earn his favor through my good works or things like that. Like, like that is not the gospel. And it reminds me of when Paul is addressing the Galatians and the people are in that church are like, Hey, you got to be circumcised. And he's like, are you kidding me? Like, no. And he says, you are severed from Christ. You who would be fulfilled, you who would be sanctified by your works and or justified by your works severed from Christ, not adjacent to Christ. Severed from him. He's like, if you try to add anything to it, you sever yourself from it. And so that's what the Pharisees keep doing is saying, like, you got to do this stuff, you got to do this stuff. And that is such a, it appeals to our flesh, which is why I think it's so prominent today, even though we aren't Pharisees. Because we like to achieve. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think like we do just want to be really clear that what they did was add to God's law. And you mentioned that already, but it's, it's not that they were even, I mean, they were zealous for keeping the law, but they became more zealous for keeping their laws, their oral tradition versus just following the 10 commandments, doing what God had asked them to do. They were like, no, no, that's not good enough. We'll go above and beyond. We did 20 commandments. We're going to add, get the list longer. Yeah. And so then, yeah, then it becomes like, well, as long as I can just take this box off, then I'm fine. Yeah. And I think God wants to draw people to him. That is what Jesus was doing. And the Pharisees are like, wait, but only in this little, you know, you can only do it this way. It's, it's blurring the lines between imputed righteousness and righteous living. So imputed righteousness is like when, when you're saved, you're standing before God is set forever. Christ's righteousness is upon you. Now that is true, no matter how we live our lives, if we're, if we're believers are standing before the King, it's secure. But then we want to live rightly in response to that. And that's where the role of the spirit comes into, into place. So it's not throwing out these righteous ideas. It's the way they were elevated to a much higher spot in their hearts than they should have been. And I love Jesus's response to their additional laws is to very carefully threads the needle of breaking their laws without breaking God's laws in a way that shows like, how can this person heal on the Sabbath? And, and have broken the Sabbath. And he's like, he doesn't break the Sabbath. He breaks their Sabbath laws while keeping the heart of the Sabbath and, and demonstrating the Father's heart toward brokenness and need. And, and, um, he just threads that needle so beautifully, breaking their laws without breaking God's laws. It's good. Yeah. I think one other thing that I always like to kind of make sure of when we're talking about the Pharisees and again, putting them in that category of, yes, Jesus has very harsh words for him from Matthew three, which is, I think, where this question stemmed from. John the Baptist has very harsh words for the Pharisees, but we also just want to make sure that as we're reading the Bible, that we are also recognizing that we can at times have phariseical. Totally in our own lives. And so I think my caution while being very honest about, about the reality of where, where they were with Jesus and the opponents that they were to him. We also just want to make sure that we're not putting them in, in this separate camp of kind of being like, well, I would have never been a Pharisee. You know, I'm like, I would 100% have been a Pharisee. And I pray that God would have saved me, you know, like, I'm like, but maybe I could have been like Nicodemus, you know, whatever. So, but, you know, so I think that that's, I just kind of always want to be careful for me personally. Yeah. Of, okay, I want to make sure that I'm recognizing what's being said to them and also being open to like, maybe God has a word for me in this, you know. I think that's wise. And it makes, there are two things that makes me think of is like Paul, a Pharisee, a Pharisee, no one's beyond God's reach. So it's not, Jesus does not say that there's no hope for them. Right. You know, like there is hope for the Pharisees. And then the other thing is, I think it's important that you pointed this out, like how our hearts are given to this. I think there's two ways that we all are, we all lean toward one of these two ends on the spectrum, either legalism, which is, I want to know all the rules and check all the boxes and I'm going to make myself look perfect and be perfect and do the right thing. Right. And then the other end of the spectrum is licentiousness, the people who are, want to take license with things and just, well, God's grace is going to abound. So he just forgives me. Do whatever I want, you know. And all of us are sort of bent more toward legalism or licentiousness. And so if you find you're like, I'm not like the Pharisees, like, I don't feel like that. Well, then you probably have a problem on the other end of the spectrum, you know, but none of us nails it. Right. Exactly. In our flesh. Right. Yeah. To be aware. Yeah. So if you're the person who's like, I love it when Jesus tells him that their laws don't matter. Maybe. Maybe we should pay attention. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Kirsten, you got the next question. Oh, yes. Thank you. So this is coming from day two 78. And the question is, am I testing God or seeking his wisdom and direction? And the verse that we're pulling this from is Matthew four, five to seven. And so let me just read that. Okay. So this is when Satan is tempting Jesus in the wilderness. Okay. Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, if you are the son of God, throw yourself down for it is written, he will command his angels concerning you. And on their hands, they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone. Jesus said to him, again, it is written, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test. So that last part there is kind of where that question is coming from. So what do you think about that? Emma? Yeah. I mean, my, my gut instinct reply is that testing God is demanding proof. Whereas seeking God requires trust. So trust may not come with proof. And, and here's, here's kind of how I'm thinking through that. So in the wilderness, Satan's tempting Jesus to jump, to prove that God will catch him. And that's, that's the key. Like show me, prove it. Let's see it. And Jesus refuses, refuses because he's like, hey, demanding signs on our terms. Isn't necessarily faith or trust. It's, it's pride. It's like God, prove it to me. Prove yourself. Whereas, whereas trusting or seeking God is like, Hey God, I trust you. I'm going to depend on you. Even if I can't see what you're doing. And anything you doubt on that? Well, I think also that's such good context. And then also Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 616, where it says, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test as you tested him at Massa. And then, but what that is referencing back to is in Exodus 17, when the Israelites were in the wilderness and they were upset because they didn't have water. Yeah. And they were, they were kind of asking, is God among us or not? Yes, exactly. The question. And the crazy thing as I was looking into this is that in Exodus 15, God had literally already given them water. And so then in Exodus, he had just done it. He had turned the bitter water into sweet water. I think that was the way it was raised. Yeah. Um, and so, and he had given them manna. So he had given them water and he'd given them manna. And then they're like, is God among us? Yeah. Yeah. Where are you? And that's the thing. Like it testing God, it often comes with spiritual amnesia because they're forgetting his past faithfulness. Like he just proved himself. Yes. And then they're like, no, it's not enough. Right. Right. 24 hours have passed. But I'm thirsty again. Yeah. Prove yourself again. Right. God just gap. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one thing that's interesting about this, this question, um, is, am I testing God or seeking his wisdom and direction? We can be certain that in this passage referenced Satan was not seeking God's wisdom and direction. Satan was absolutely testing God by asking these questions. And what's so, what's so convicting to me. And so, um, just important for me to remember is that you can know the truth and not be moved by it. You can know the truth and not surrender to it. If anyone knows who Jesus is, it is Satan. Yeah. Satan who was an angel of sorts in, in the kingdom with, with the father and then fell knows the truth and yet still does not surrender to it. And I remember being in college and a friend of mine that I had gone on mission trips with and seen her share the gospel. She like called me up one day and she was like, I got to tell you something. Can I come over? She came over and she was like, um, I need you to know I'm not a Christian. And I was like, what? And she was like, I know that this is true. Like I know all of this is true. I just don't care. It doesn't change anything about my life. And so we see this happen all throughout the gospels where Jesus does a miracle and their hearts are just hard. They cannot receive it. And so Satan was not seeking wisdom and direction. Satan was not yielded to the glory and the power and the sovereignty of God. This was absolutely Satan testing. But if you are a person who is filled with the spirit of God and you are genuinely asking for wisdom and direction and you know that your heart is yielded to whatever that truth is, you can't compare yourself to Satan here. You know, like that's a, you're in a different situation. And that second part of the question is so important. Am I, or am I seeking his wisdom and direction? Because we know he invites our questions. Like that, that behavior is encouraged. Uh, James one, five through six, raids. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives generously to all without reproach and it will be given him, but let him ask in faith with no doubting for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. And I read that and I'm like, Oh my goodness. Like that, that's what we're supposed to do is asking in faith and asking in an honest faith, like even, even saying, I think it's okay to say, God, it's really hard for me to trust you with this situation, but I want to, like, would you give me the faith to and show me what to do? And that passage in James, James one, and it talks, it talks about the double minded man who's unstable in all of his ways. That's what the next pass, part of that passage says, that's the person who seeks wisdom, gets it and doesn't abide by it. Yeah. And so if you are seeking wisdom and the Lord brings it, be sure you lean in. None of us want to be the double minded man who's unstable in, in all his ways. Yeah. Not just one of his ways, all of his ways. Right. Well, and I think the other piece of this too is that this was a demand for the miraculous. And so when we're coming to God seeking his wisdom, it's also coming open handed being available and ready for whatever it is that God says. And so that's like, yeah, God, you might come to God for wisdom and he might say something that you do not like, but you still do it. Right. That's the proper response. And I love what you said about the open handedness, not demanding a specific outcome for God to prove himself. You know, like, God, if you're real, help me. Get ready tomorrow. Right. Let me win the lottery. You know, like those, I think, although sometimes when people do ask that, like I talked to someone at school the other day, literally how he became a Christian. Wow. Love that. Oh, is that God, if you're real, but I think that him asking that, it was a genuine plea. Yeah. God, if you're real, please, like I need you to show me that, you know, so even that, you're seeing. It also feels different than a believer asking God to do it. Like that's a lost person saying, God, I, I want, I want to see you. Yeah. I want to see you move. Show me that you exist, that you're real versus a believer being like, God, show me what to do by making it rain tomorrow. Yes. You know, yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, our next question comes from day two 79. Specifically, John three 12 through 13, which I'll read in just a moment, but the question it reads, it says, no one has ascended into heaven except the sun. So what happened to all the people that died before Jesus saved the world? And here's the text. John three 12 through 13. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the son of man. Okay. So I'm going to jump in here because here's, I just have to say a little, I don't love this question. Okay. And here's why I love this question. Okay. Sorry to ever submitted this question. I'm glad to read captain. Yeah. Stay with us. I liked it. There's the reason we chose it. We think it's great. Yeah. Forgive Kirsten. Forgive Kirsten. Okay. Let me just share kind of where I'm coming from. So this question, I shouldn't say I don't love this question. What I should say is that this question makes me uncomfortable because it feels like the question is pulling something out of context and making it into something else. So what I mean is that this, this is a totally normal question to ask. What happened to all the people that died before Jesus saved the world? Like what, you know, questions about heaven, questions about what happens after we died, those are all very good and normal questions. But this text, I don't think is addressing that. So that's kind of the caveat that I want to give where it's like, we need to talk about that question. I think it's, I think that is a good question, but let's just make sure that as we're reading our Bibles, we're not just kind of being like, Oh, well, this makes me think of this text is clearly saying, is talking about the people that are in heaven and out in heaven. Right? Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. I, I think what you're getting at is like, what is the main, what is actually the main point of these verses and what Jesus is saying? And I think he's, he's saying, I'm the only one who came from heaven and can speak about these things with authority. But reading those verses can raise. Yeah. So let's, so let's address it like in the two part then, like what's really being talked about in this text and what is the answer to this question that is made someone come to this question from this text. Yeah. So I think, so this is about, and I think you hit it right on the head, like this is about Jesus's authority to speak about heavenly, eternal, spiritual things. So he as the son of man who came down from heaven can talk about that. And it also emphasizes humanity's need for someone to come and reveal, rescue and reveal, rescue and reveal to us. Like we can't make it to heaven on our own. So Jesus has the authority to talk about these things. Yeah. Just to tag back to our first question. This also points to the fact that Jesus existed before he was born on earth. Like he was in heaven. Good. Father then. Yeah. So then Emma, how would people, yeah, how do people get to this question or like, yeah, well, I think it's, it's, it's the timeline that's being presented. No one has ascended into heaven except the son. So if no one has ascended into heaven, if you're just taking it very literally at face value, well, what about all the people who died before Jesus came? Like I, I think that is a valid question to ask to your point. That's not what he's answering here or talking about, but it's still a good, a good question. Uh, and I would say that the answer is really simple. A lot of times we think, oh, people in the Old Testament were saved by keeping the law, doing the sacrifices. No, that would be salvation by works. They were saved by faith, just like us. So, so we see that most clearly. Genesis 15, six, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. And that was before he did anything. Yeah. And it was before the law was even like, even given, was like 490 years or something before the law came. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a good amount. Yeah. Well, I came under this. Moses wasn't even, Moses wasn't born yet. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, a significant number of years and that's a better. Yeah. That's a safer. But I feel like the 400, it's on the ground. I think it's 400. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that could be right. But we can, we can be certain when we read it was counted to him as righteousness, that that is saying he was saved. He was secure in God's eyes. Specifically, we can say that with certainty because we can look at Romans 4 and read the words, it was counted to him. We're not written just for Abraham's sake, but for ours as well, for believers today. And so I think that's a really helpful way to, to just remember what, what's true about Abraham is really relevant for us because God is, God's consistent. And I mean, we see that also really clearly. I love that you brought up an Old Testament passage because when you said, we see that most clearly, I was like, Oh, she's going to say Hebrews 11. And I said, you know, I said, a few places. Yeah. Hebrews 11 recounts all of the kind of the faith, all of fame. Yeah. It counts all of these Old Testament people. And it says by faith, by faith, by faith, by faith for all of them. It points out that their, their relationship with God was established by faith and that it wasn't something that changed when Jesus came on the scene. It wasn't like, well, they were saved by works and now we're saved by faith. They are saved by looking forward to a savior. The faith that the savior will be will come. We are saved by looking backward to the savior by, by faith that he did die on the cross and raised from the dead. And so everything points to Jesus in the center. There's just a forward looking faith. Or is this a backwards looking faith? And so tying everything back together, this verse isn't addressing that timeline. That Jesus is in the middle. Some people are looking forward to his coming. We're looking back. That's not at all what Jesus is talking about here. He, he's making a claim about his divinity. Isn't it the word he's talking about? Yeah. And I do just want to say that I think that if you're the kind of person who reads the Bible and these sorts of questions come to your mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's those are really good questions to be asking. Trying to backtrack a little bit in case anyone was offended by my comment. But, but what I think is that if, if things pop out to you in the text as you're reading and you're like, but I wonder if that's what's going on here. Like do a little dig, do a little deep dive and, and figure out if that's what's going on in the passage, but also keep a separate notebook or keep, you know, in your notes right down. Like, wait, this is a question that I have. And I wonder if somewhere in the Bible, there's an answer for it or somewhere in church history, they talked about it. Like there's a lot of different things that you can do with those kinds of questions. Can I plug a great resource that we have no relationship with? Love it. Go for it. But I know we all use it all the time is gotquestions.org. Oh yeah. Gotquestions.org is incredible and they link so many other scriptures. So if you have a question when you're, you're hitting the text and it's something that we don't cover in the deep dive that week, gotquestions.org. We love them. That's good. Yeah. All right. Question five. A day 280. What was the dynamic between Roman rulers and the Jews during this time? So we've saved just a really simple kind of like straightforward question for the end. Like question. So go ahead Emma. All right. Here's the thing. You already got to set me up like that. It's so heavy. I mean, there's a lot we could say. Yeah. There's so much we could say. The reality is Rome ruled over Israel with power and force, not necessarily peace. So here's some context for you, some history. In Jesus's day, Israel was under Roman occupation, conquered in 63 BC. Got to make sure I got the date right by Pompeii. And the Jews weren't free. They weren't their own nation. Like we maybe think of Israel today. That's not at all what we're talking about. They were living under Roman governors like Pilate. They paid heavy taxes and they had limited legal rights. So Rome, they did allow some religious freedom. But rebellion was kind of always a threat that from the Romans perspective. They're like, what if these people, what if these people revolt? What if they rebel? So the soldiers and officials were everywhere. And Rome was controlling the lands, of course, the courts, the taxes. So the Jews were living in their land, but it really didn't feel like home. Right. Well, they didn't have a king on the throne. Oh, no. And I'm just thinking about other passages in the Gospels where where the Jews are afraid at a minimum, they were they were occupied. Like Israel was occupied by Rome. Yes. And so that meant that Romans officials, tax collectors, they were seen as enemies. And like Matthew eight, the centurion, he represented Roman military power. So the Jews would fear or distrust. But all in all, as we're thinking about, hey, why does this matter in the context of what we're reading tax collectors like Levi and Mark two were seen as traitors. They worked for Rome against their own people, often to get rich themselves. And a tax collector was was really worse than a Roman soldier, because they were a sellout. They were like, hey, I see what you're doing to hurt my people, and I'm going to join in. Yeah. And now sometimes, you know, we don't know their circumstances. They maybe did that because they were poor and needed money. But at the end of the day, if you were a tax collector, you were not viewed favorably by the Jewish people. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also. So Rome was the enemy for the Jews. And also there was this expectation amongst the Jews that we need to be delivered from Rome. And so we're seeing that in the background and the expectation around Jesus is we're waiting for someone to free us from this. Yeah, they were expecting the Messiah to be this political military hero rescuer who was going to overthrow the Roman government. And that's just not what happened. Jesus's actions were surprising. And how surprising is it then that within his crew, his 12, he not only had Matthew slash Levi, the tax collector slash trader in their view, but he also had Simon the zealot. Yes. Yes. Wanted to overthrow Rome. You have somebody who works for Rome and somebody who wants to overthrow Rome. Also maybe a terrorist. Yeah. The zealots. Yeah. Oh, man. Comes full circle. My goodness. Yeah, that's good. That's good. It's like Jesus came to conquer sin. That's the point. He didn't come to conquer Rome. And they're sinning the heart of the zealot. Yes. They're sinning the heart of the tax collector. I mean, it's that sort of the legalism licentiousness thing, like in a different capacity, like just into the spectrum. And Jesus is like neither end of the spectrum. Like I have a whole different whole different thing. It's marked by unity. Wow. Did we just solve it? I think we solved all the problems. Wow. This we've had a great time. Dive in deep into the first week of the New Testament with you guys. Thanks for diving deep with us. We'll see you next week as we aim to read, understand and love the Bible and the God who wrote it.