Episode 340: A Story of Autism and Hope with Leland Vittert

Blowing out budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in... Dashboard Confessions! I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit. Go to linkedin.com slash lead. Terms and conditions apply. Hey friends, welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas and we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Leland Vittert is the host of On Balance with Leland Vittert and serves as News Nation's Chief Washington Anchor. A veteran journalist, Vittert joined News Nation in May 2021, where he has been pivotal in covering national affairs and delivering special reports across the network's prime time weeknight newscast. Before joining News Nation, Vittert worked for Fox News from 2010 to 2021, starting as a foreign correspondent based in Jerusalem and later serving as anchor and correspondent in Washington. He is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Born Lucky, which we loved talking about his amazing journey with his dad, learning about his autism and all the incredible things he offered through this conversation. Leland, it is so good to meet you and we're excited to talk about your new book, Born Lucky, A Dedicated Father, A Grateful Son and My Journey with Autism. Will you start out just by telling us some about your story and how you came to understand about autism? Sure. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I knew that I had been diagnosed with what we now know to be autism when I was much younger. I was about eight years old when my parents were told they needed to have me be evaluated, which I'm sure is something that a number of the children you work with, their parents have been told. My parents took me to one of those medical testing buildings, left me for a couple of hours. They sat in the waiting room with the linoleum floors and the uncomfortable furniture and stale coffee, old magazines. And when I was brought back, the woman who had done the testing and evaluation said, this young man has a lot of problems. Number one, big sensory issues. So if there was socks on I didn't like or a jacket or anything like that, I didn't like, I would melt down. There was behavioral issues. So forget birthday parties or play dates or anything like that, that if a kid looked at me the wrong way or touched me, I would turn around and slug them. So that was a problem. And then big behavioral issues, mental issues, learning disabilities. So as you all know, but I'm not sure for your listeners, an IQ test is the average of two scores. The 20 point spread between those two scores is a learning disability. I had about a 70 point spread. The woman said to my parents is the biggest spread we've ever seen. And my dad naturally said, what do we do? And the woman said, there's not much you can do. You kind of have to meet him where he was at, which was a problem. So my dad's challenge was to, in his words, adapt me to the world rather than the world to me. And Born Lucky is that story of this friendship between him and I and his journey, I guess, or quest, you want to call it, to adapt me to the world. Now, my wife would tell you that that is still a work in progress. She would not be incorrect. But the purpose of writing this book is really to give hope to every parent of a kid who's having a hard time, not just with autism like I did, but ADHD and anxiety, difficulties with bullying, growing up, physical disabilities, whatever it is, to give parents hope that they can make such an enormous and real difference in their kid's life. It's so grateful that you've written it. And parents, I mean, we're sitting with every day, certainly need that encouragement and that hope. Well, you have shared a lot of stories in the book from growing up that shape who you are today. What would you say is one early lesson that taught you something about resilience or navigating the world with curiosity and grit? Well, the words you said there, I think are really important. And that word resilience is one that I think is really key. And I'm sure that's something that you all talk to with your clients and in your parents and your kids a lot. And it's something that's really not taught, I think, as much as it is. One of the takeaway lessons, I think, from Born Lucky is that adversity is your friend, embracing adversity and fighting through it. You know, I'll give you just one, for example, when I was in eighth grade, I was in art class and we've all been there with the tables in your painting or you're doing pottery and there's stuff on the walls that kids have done. And one of the art teachers didn't like one of my paintings. So I go home, I tell my dad about it as most nights, you know, I would cry and be angry and take out from all this emotion that I built up throughout the day. So my parents used to say, I'd come home broken every day and they'd have to put me back together. And my dad would listen to it and let me go through it and he would put me back together and then he would send me back to school the next day, every day. And I think it was that that knowledge of walking through hell that has been so important later in life. And I tell that story because when I was 37, 38 years old, in the span of about a month, I had broken up with my longtime girlfriend, moved out of the condo that she and I were living in. I've been asked to leave or invited not to return to Fox News, a little bit like private school invited not to return and almost died of COVID. So I was living in my parents' guest bedroom down in Florida, recovering from COVID. I'd been in the hospital for a week. I had no lung function left. And one night I was feeling really sorry for myself. Sitting in the living room and my dad goes, hey, he says, you're feeling pretty sorry for yourself, aren't you? I said, uh-huh. He said, well, you can keep going. You can get through this. And that mentality is so important. It's so hard for parents, right? Because taking away the adversity for kids has become very easy and quite invoked to just sort of make life as easy as possible. Completely understandable. I'm not a parent, but I get it. My dad, I didn't find out until we wrote Born Lucky. My dad oftentimes after listening to me be so upset and so angry and on and on and on, I'd go to bed and my dad would come downstairs and my mom would find him in the living room one, two, three o'clock in the morning just crying himself. He had taken all that emotion onto himself. So it's so much harder for parents to hold their kids hand through adversity, to teach them that resilience than it is to take it away. But that resilience, as you all, I think are pointing out is so important. Yes. Thank you for sharing that story. In the book, you talk about moments where you had to adapt quickly or learn on the fly. And how did those experiences shape your confidence, both as a child and then later in your work as a journalist? I think you learn to survive, right? And through time, you learn either to crumble or to figure out a way to survive and get through. I think probably that survival instinct is one of the reasons that the CIA took a liking to me when I was in college and thinking about going to work for them was that kind of ability to think and to survive. I'm trying to think about how you said shape my confidence. And again, I don't think I would have been able to get through that time a few years ago when I was sort of at the lowest point in my adult life. Had I not known that I had walked through these things before, right? When I was in fifth grade, for example, and just sort of to meet kids that you're dealing with where they are, I asked my little sister when we started working on Born Lucky, what's your first memory of me? Real simple question for a younger sister. And she said, oh, that's easy. When we were in grade school, you were in fifth grade. I was in kindergarten. My sister was younger. And she said that I would come every day to the kindergarten classroom to pick her up and walk her home, about a half mile from the school. So I would pick her up from kindergarten. We would walk through the PE fields and we would get to a fence line, go through the fence where there were some woods and then out to our house. And she said, every day when you got to the fence line, into the woods, you'd start crying. And I would hold your hand. And that's her talking about being a kindergartener for her big brother who was in fifth grade. And again, I think that once you've experienced that, once you've had that fight as a kid every day to survive, you can really survive so much more as an adult. And I think about a lot of kids and now, you know, I have the benefit of being 43 and, you know, working with some phenomenal young people. But a lot of them, I think, have not had those challenges as kids. So much of the adversity has been taken away that when there is hard times in an office, when you are as a team having to deal with some difficult issues, they kind of don't know how to deal with it. And it requires sort of this totally different worldview for them of what adversity is. And now sort of teaching this is how you deal with adversity in a very different way. So if you can understand that adversity is your friend and teach your kid that they can do hard things, that is an enormous gift. And now a quick break to hear from one of our incredible sponsors who make the podcast available. So David, rumor has it, Connie's been doing a little redecorating. Ha, a little might be an understatement. It started with the guest bedroom, just a few new rugs, pillows, blankets, and some side tables from Wayfair. It looked so good until she looked around and said, well, now our bedroom looks sad. Oh no, the classic home decor domino effect. Exactly. I should have seen it coming. One Wayfair box turns into five. And before you know it, I'm putting together nightstands at 10 p.m. But honestly, it's worth it. Everything looked incredible. The prices were great and the shipping was fast and free, even for the big stuff. That's what I love about Wayfair. It's the one stop shop for everything home, bedding, furniture, storage, even faux plants. I could redo every room in the house without ever leaving the couch. And Connie kind of did. She says Wayfair makes it way too easy to get organized, refreshed, and back on track for the new year. At least your house looks great, David. It really does. Get organized, refreshed, and back on track this new year for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. So David, rumor has it when your adult kids were home for Christmas, they were very entertained by your new cookware. Oh, they were relentless. I barely pulled out my new Our Place 4-Piece Cookware set in sage green before they started teasing me. Look at Dad pretending to be a real chef. Well, were they wrong? Not entirely. I was feeling pretty professional with that matching set. Two always pans and two perfect pots. It looks so good. I kind of want to hang it on the wall. Connie says it's the first cookware we've ever owned that actually matches. And you're officially toxin-free now, right? None of those forever chemicals in your kitchen. Exactly. That's what I love about Our Place. No PFAS, no Teflon, just beautiful, high-performance cookware that's safe, easy to clean, and cooks like a dream. And their colors are amazing. I keep mine out all the time in my kitchen. So do we. These pans are sleek, sustainable, and perform like high-end restaurant cookware. So the verdict from the kids? They might still tease me, but after the first meal, they were asking if I'd order them a set too. Well, that's a win. 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I guess we all been in the principal's office before, and the woman says, you know, everybody at this school thinks Lucky is really weird. And then she followed up, and frankly, I do too, right? So we never use her name. That's not because I don't remember her name. Trust me, I remember her name very well. It's because we really wanted to point out what an enormous difference adults, friends, teachers, therapists, counselors, coaches can make in the life of a kid who's having a hard time. And I certainly wanted to honor and thank, and we did in the book, the people who were nice to me and who really cared about me and who were a safe haven. There weren't many of them, but it meant an enormous amount in my life. And I think, you know, you talked about friendships. I didn't really have any friends growing up, right? My dad, when I was eight and really when I was a little bit earlier than that, he realized I wasn't going to have any friends before I was diagnosed. And he said, I decided maybe I could be your friend. And really, he became my only friend. He still is my best friend. It's 4.45 in the afternoon and Eastern time that we're recording this. I think I've talked to him three times today. Probably we'll talk to him a couple of more times the rest of the day. That's just who we are. That's how we've always been as a family. And I'm certainly so grateful for it. But that was the biggest point for me was having my dad as my only friend. And, Born Lucky, you described school experiences that didn't always go the way you expected. What helped you stay engaged academically or re-engage when things felt discouraging or overwhelming? It's a good question. I'm not sure I really was that engaged academically, at least to the extent that I wasn't very good at it because of obviously the really severe learning disabilities. There was never any accommodations made. There was never extra time on tests or different classrooms or any of that. My dad's philosophy was you have to learn to live in the world the way it is, not the way you might want it to be. The one thing my dad was great at, one of many things I should say, is he would find things that I could take pride in or be good at that were outside of academics. And by that I mean he realized I wasn't going to be good at school. He realized I wasn't going to be good at athletics that kids typically get self-esteem at. And I wasn't going to have a lot of friends outside of school. So he started me doing push-ups, 200 push-ups a day, five days a week to try to teach me that self-esteem is earned, not given. But obviously Rowan was a huge part of my life later on through high school. And he didn't push me to fly. I pushed him to be able to take flying lessons as a kid. But it's something also that he encouraged to allow me to have pride in things and to be good at things that I could be good at. And I think that was a really important part of this was dad realizing that it wasn't about what other kids were good at or what his friends valued in kids, but what he could find to help me learn at hard work equals results, sort of triangle or equation, whatever you want to call it, that is so crucial to have success in anything in life. It is so sweet to hear you talk about him. I can only imagine how proud he is of you. That the admiration certainly goes both ways. It does. It really does. And I think what's most touching about Born Lucky to me, or I shouldn't say most touching, maybe most emotional for me, is the afterward by dad. And he really didn't want to be mentioned in this book. I mean, he knew he was going to have to be mentioned. He really didn't want to do this book. I'll let your listeners into sort of the backstory here. We started working on this book because a talent coach that I was working with was working with me one day and she says to me, you know, I really want you to try to react more emotionally to the person you're talking to. So for those listening to this podcast rather than watching, we're doing in what we call a two box, right? So there's two squares and you've all seen on cable news on the screen. I'm in one square and Sissy and David are another square. And that's the two boxes. She said, I want you to try to match the emotion of the person you're interviewing better. I said, fine. Next time we're working together. She says, how's that going? It's a little hard. Next time she goes, I'd try to figure this out because this is not working. I said, well, I said, I'm trying, but it's the hardest thing in the world for me. She goes, why is that? I said, because I'm autistic. Silence. 30 seconds later, I go, are you still there? And she says, yeah. She goes, did you say you're autistic? I said, uh-huh. And she said, okay. Really? And I said, yeah. And she says, okay. Anybody know that? I said, no. She goes, well, I didn't know that. I said, that's the whole point. Nobody knew, but I never told anybody about this. And she said, all right. Does any of the bosses know? I said, no. She said, well, have you ever written anything about it? I said, well, I wrote about 700 words once, put it in the drawer. I thought it was going to be an op-ed. Maybe I'd publish in the Wall Street Journal or something for Father's Day, just kind of this idea was titled Born Lucky. She said, well, you send it to me. So I sent it to her. And about six months later, maybe three months later, my phone rings and it's Don Yeager, the fellow who I co-wrote the book with, legendary author, sports writer, 12 times New York Times best seller list now 13 times. And he says, I really want to write this book with you, the Born Lucky book. And I said, Don, I said, I've never told anybody that I'm autistic. It's not something I've discussed. I'm not writing a book. He says, you got to write a book and I want to write this book with you. He said, okay, why? He says, well, I have a child who's autistic. And if I had known this story, it would have given me so much hope and you can give so many so much hope. So Don and my dad and I and Don's child had dinner together one night. And we decided to do this. So as I'm interviewing my dad for all of these stories to tell and to write the book, he would want to adjudicate each one and he would go, that's so personal that we really want to tell that. I don't know. I'm not sure about that one. I don't know. Can we tell this? I said, Dad, we can't do this. You're going to have to be as raw with me as you can be. And I'm going to write the manuscript. And when we're done, if you don't like it, we won't turn it into Harper Collins. Okay, fine deal. So Tuesday of Deadline Week, I give it to him. It's Do On a Friday. Thursday, he calls me and he says, you know, this is just too personal. I can't do this. He says, I'm not a hero. I don't want to be held out as a hero. I just did whatever he father would do. I loved you. I tried my best. I can't do this. I said, well, I owe you a Harper Collins 60,000 words tomorrow. So we need to think through this a little bit. But I said to him, I said, let me turn this around. I said, if when I was diagnosed at eight years old and that woman who told you there was nothing you could do and said there was no hope, had instead given you a copy of Born Lucky, how would you have felt? And he said, well, I would have read it every day or every week. And I said, well, maybe that's the answer, right? That we could give that hope to parents. And he said, okay, fine. He says, but I'm not a hero. I said, why don't you write that? And that was about 10 o'clock on a Thursday night. And he says, well, what do you mean? I said, why don't you write the afterward? Write six or 700 words, whatever you think. And he says, well, when's it due? I said, well, the book's due tomorrow at noon. So your deadline's now. And he goes, okay, hangs up the phone. And I didn't really didn't think anything of it. And about an hour later, the phone rang and it was him. And he dictated to me, what is now the afterward, I think we changed one word in the edit of that. But that, that to me, is really the most important part of the book is his afterward and his thoughts. Well, I feel like people are going to want to buy it for both now, the book and the afterward to hear both. And now we're going to take a little break to hear from one of our sponsors who makes this podcast possible. So David, you know, my nephews are like most kids and vegetables are their least favorite food group. I felt the same way growing up. But they found something they actually love. 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Well, growing up knowing that you were encountering a lot of hard things relationally, just would love to know was there something that helped kind of teach you that curiosity sparked that curiosity in you as you were growing up? I don't know if there was something about that. I've always been super curious. I've always had a lot of questions. In fact, I was a kid as I had too many questions. And one of the things we write about in Born Lucky is how my dad began to teach me the social and emotional fabric that becomes the connective tissue that keeps us all together. And something that comes so innately to the two of you and to counselors and to people with really high EQs. So what he would do is he would take me to lunch with people. And let's just say we're going to lunch with one of you, right? So dad knew David. David and he are having lunch. I had so much time on my hands because obviously I didn't have much time. Didn't have many play date events with my kid friends or kids my own age. He's not any friends. So he would take me to lunch with David. And he said, all right, we're going to go to David with David. David's a counselor. He works with kids, blah, blah, blah, blah. And remember, when I tap my watch, you need to stop talking. So we'd get to lunch and we would sit down. And probably before we got menus, I would start peppering David with questions. Oh, no. How many clients do you see in a day? How do you keep track of everything they say? How do you take notes? How do you advertise? How do you run your business? It would just go on for hours. And dad would tap his watch at some point. And I'd sit there for about 10 or 15 minutes and then I'd start again. And then dad would tap his watch. It would sort of be this process. And the watch tap was two things. One, stop talking, but to bookmark whatever that moment was. So one of the things that would happen afterwards is we would post game and he'd say, okay, so when we sat down and David started talking about his golf game and you interrupted ask about how much he charges per hour and whether he gives discounts in 10 packs, why did you think that was interesting? I'd say, well, dad, I thought this was interesting. And I don't know. That's why I was interested. And then he would say, okay, well, what could you have asked David about his golf game? And then we would role play that situation. And that's really kind of how I learned how the human equation worked and probably a little bit about how to ask questions. That is incredible. Just incredible. Leland, every family has saying stories or values that stick. What did your family communicate that shaped the way you approached challenge, risk, or opportunity? I think there'd be two things from Born Lucky. One is the just innate value of hard work, right? I think the overarching principle that was taught in my family and was a demand was character. And part of the Born Lucky story in the beginning of Born Lucky is how my dad grew up. And my grandfather, grew up during the Depression, had become a somewhat successful businessman in St. Louis, died when my dad was only 16 years old, the finding moment of my dad's life. And my dad was actually getting ready for a date. He looks in the mirror as he's shaving. And he sees behind him his older brother. And my dad says to his older brother, who was 10 years older, so out of the house and everything, Bruce, what are you doing here? And the brother looks back. So they see each other in the mirror and Bruce says, our dad died. So that night, they drove down to the family office, little construction company's office, went into my grandfather's office, and opened the safe. And in the safe was a letter from my grandfather to his boys. And we have the letter in Born Lucky. And it talks about how character is destiny. And then a man is defined not by his accolades or his accomplishments or his, you know, monetary holdings, but by his character. And I think that in terms of a family motto or family demand or whatever you want to whatever you want to call it, that value of telling the truth, being a good person, and that one is defined by their character is been that connective tissue for us. Well, I know every family listening who has a child, as you said, with a lot of different hurdles that they're facing, autism being one, those encouraged hearing you talk and would love to know specifically for the parents with a child who's autistic, what is one kind of final encouragement that you would want to give them or one thing you'd want them to know? I'm not sure there's one. You know, I think the promise of Born Lucky is that things get better, right? And that there is hope. And the promise to parents that they can make an enormous difference. And when we started working on Born Lucky and Dad and I, Don and I came up with a book proposal, there were a lot of publishers who wanted this to be an autism book or how to cure autism or, you know, how to help your kid with autism, with checklists and, you know, structure of workbooks and everything else. And I said, I'm sorry, I can't do that. Number one, because I don't know anything about writing something like that. Number two, I'm not a therapist or qualified. Number three, I'm a kid, not a parent. And what this book really is, is this is a love story. This is a story of hope. And it's the story of what really dedicated parents can do no matter what the child is facing. And the most rewarding part of the book has been the letters, the emails, the phone calls, social media posts from so many parents who have kids who have a wide range of challenges from autism to ADHD, to anxiety, to one mother who had a kid who had a peanut allergy, all saying this book spoke to the power in the agency that parents have that I have. And it gives me hope. And that to me is really the most important message. I had father of a child who has profound autism, so nonverbal, living in a group home was 21 or 22 years old. And he would get the reports from the group home, and the kid had all sorts of problems and behavior problems was acting out and angry and everything else. But the only time the kid was happy was when he was in a pool. They would go three times a week to the local rec center and the kid would be in a pool, the son. And the father says, let's get him in the pool more, let's teach him to swim. And they said, no, no, no, we can't do that because if he gets scared and he, you know, get has trouble in the water, he'll never want to go in the pool again. And the father says, let's teach him to swim. The experts say, they taught him to swim. He now swims a mile and a half every day. He is a totally changed kid. He is happier. He gets up every morning and gets stressed to go swim. He's physically very different. You swim a mile and a half every day, you're physically very different. All of these great things, all because of father who said, my kid can be more, I'm not going to let him be defined by the diagnosis. And I think that is really the lesson of born monkey. Thank you. Leigh Ann, there's just no way for you and your dad to know how many families are going to be impacted by the story, but we simply want to say thank you for writing it. And thank you for being willing to talk with us about it today. It has been a pleasure to share time with you. Pleasure is all mine. Thank you both. And thank you both for everything you do on literally an hourly basis to help kids like me. I never went to therapy or did anything like that as a kid, but I think for children to have and families to have folks like you to be able to help them and to coach them through this is really important. Thank you so much. We're so grateful for you for this time. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris, Jared, our engineer, our management team at KCH. We are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.