Catching the Codfather

Hey, this is Outside In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I am Nate Hedgie. And I gotta tell ya, I love a good Boston movie. Give me Ben Affleck robbing banks in the town. Give me Marky Mark dropping like 100 F-bombs in the departed. Or I guess I should say like the depotted. F*** yourself. I'm tired from f***ing your wife. How's your mother? Kurchi's tired from f***ing my father. There is just something about that accent that I love. And when I first heard a new podcast series from Ian Kos and our friends over at Boston Station GBH, I just knew it was gonna be a winner. It's a true crime saga set in the fishing port of New Bedford, Massachusetts. And it's centered on a guy named The Codfather. We're gonna share the first episode with you now, but also be warned, The Codfather swears like a sailor, even though he doesn't actually like being on boats. Alright, here we go. Can you tell me about how you did ultimately get arrested? This all started a few years back when I wanted to sell my business. See, my legacy, it was to grow this to a point that I would turn it over to my kids. I did it. That said, I'm done. I wanted to give the business to my middle daughter. And I told Stephanie, I was 62 at the time. I said, Stephanie, Daddy's tired enough. I'm gonna give you the business. I don't want no money. At the end of the year, the profits you split with your sisters. It's yours. So she looks at me and she says, Do you think I want the kind of live you have? And she didn't want a company over a hundred million just for that. Can you blame her? No. No. No, because I see what I did to my family. I never get to spend time with them. I never get to go to the school place and all this other shit. And you can buy those things back. It's over. But if you get the American dream, it's a certain amount of sacrifice you've got to make. It doesn't come from heaven. And they say, lock, lock bullshit. You have to go look for lock. Lock doesn't come to you. You buy lock is work your butt off an America and you will get ahead. And she said, I don't want that kind of life. Are you crazy? So that's why I end up getting in the shade of because if I want to get out at 62, none of this bullshit would have happened. Carlos Rafael leans back and lights a cigarette. None of many over the course of our conversation. Could you talk about all the Scarface pictures? My daughter gave me that one. She bought that one in New York. Carlos's office is covered with images from the movie Scarface. There's an actual cigar from the set, a hand drawn sketch of Tony Montana, the cocaine kingpin and a still from the film of Al Pacino in the big hot tub. Carlos told me that Netflix once approached him about making a movie about his life and asked who should play him. Carlos didn't need to think about it. It was obvious. I said, Scarface, he'll be the only one could do the job the right way. Al Pacino. So you can picture an older Pacino if you want, but with jowls hanging under his chin and totally bald except for the sides of his head. That's Carlos. And what did the producer from Netflix say? Now I ask him when I mention $20 million, I said, forget it, look, I thought, good, it's something that's going to get done. I want money. And you'll see as we go along, there are some parallels for sure between Carlos Rafael and Tony Montana. It's the story of an immigrant who has to make his own luck and is willing to push that luck again and again and again. Hunger, opportunity, excess, ruin. There's a famous scene in the movie when Montana is out to dinner and gets in a heated argument. It's at a fancy restaurant. Everyone's very well dressed, lawyers and bankers, and they all fall silent watching as Montana lunges across the table, spilling wine and food all over the white tablecloth. But then Montana turns and addresses the crowd directly, calls out their silent judgment of him saying, you need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say, that's the bad guy. Then he asks, so what does that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. When he's done, Montana stumbles out, shouting over his shoulder, say good night to the bad guy. I can hear a little of Carlos in that scene. Even after he was investigated and labeled a crook, after federal agents carted him off to jail and dismantled his empire, he keeps pointing his finger right back at the government that brought him down saying, that right there, that is the real bad guy. They take this off the problem. Heavens, oh shit. Because fishermen are a lot smarter than they are. They're a lot smarter than they are. From GBH News, this is The Big Dig. I'm Ian Kos. Carlos Rafael is an American success story. He started from nothing, working in a neglected industry, in a neglected city, and he built something real. His business was fish, Carlos seafood. And by the end of his run, he owned the biggest fleet of boats in the most valuable fishing port in America. So why did it all come crashing down? And why does Carlos insist to this day that he did nothing wrong? Welcome to season three, catching the cod father. It's a story about work, about dreams, and ultimately about how all of us relate with our government. Part one, Red Lobster. Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives name your price tool for years. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and Coverage Match Limited by State Law. Carlos Rafael grew up in the Azores, a string of islands in the Atlantic that are maybe a quarter of the way to North America if you're coming from Europe. So way out there and small enough that you have to really zoom in on the map in order to see them at all. The Azores are part of Portugal, and in the 1960s when Carlos was a kid, Portugal was fighting colonial wars on several fronts in Mozambique and Angola and Guinea. Carlos had friends who were drafted off their tiny island and sent abroad, who died in the jungle fighting for a lost and distant cause, a pointless cause. His parents did not want that for their son, so they sent young Carlos to study at a monastery. That's the way they would keep me off the military festival at a monastery. I mean, I've only known you for about an hour, but it's hard for me to picture you in a monastery. All my friends says, what a hell of a priest you would have made. But once my sister, she told me dad has an American passport. Carlos's dad had an American passport. This revelation is not entirely surprising in a place where lots of families move back and forth to the US, but it was news to Carlos, infuriating news. Because it meant his dad had an easy out all along and was so comfortable in his island life, he just didn't want to take it and instead sent his son to a monastery. I freaked out. I said, oh yeah, we're going to America. He says, you know, you're not going to America because you stay in a monastery. That's where they put you here. So I did shit, so they go through me out. Every night, the priests in training would have dinner, then go to prayer, and by 9.30, they'll go up to their dormitory. So everybody went up to the dorm. I went to the football field and I jumped the fence and I took off. Carlos didn't care about actually getting away with this little escape act. He wanted to get caught. He wanted to get punished. Didn't go too far. I went for a walk until I was about a quarter of 11 when I came back. I jumped the fence and I came back. I was a little like no, the priest was up, stays waiting for me. He says, you'll be an expel tomorrow. I'm calling your parents and we ship in your back home. Now Carlos would find out if his gambit paid off. It looked like either way he was leaving the Azores. Could be for the U.S. Could be for Angola. Which one was up to his father. So I was terrified to get all my says. He's going to beat the living crab out of me. My father says, I'm going to teach you a lesson. We're not going any place. He's the one. He was in the right place. He should have stood there and all that. But there was my mother. She every day would be harmonious. And she says, you know what's going to happen if he goes, he'll probably come in the coffin. Carlos was 15 at this point. At 16, he would register for the draft. So after she keep battling and battling these sites to come here. So you got out just before your 16th birthday. I got in much. June would have been too late. Carlos boarded a TWA flight and followed the same route across the sea that people from the Azores had taken for generations to the small coastal city of New Bedford, Massachusetts. The flight attendant gave him a little set of plastic wings. He could pin on his shirt. He was proud of those wings. Proud to be starting fresh. Proud to be in America. Finally free. When I arrived in the United States in 1968, I always said to myself, I am not going to be working for anybody else all my life. I'm going to do this for myself. And it turned out that Carlos was arriving at the right time, a time of crisis actually for the industry that defined New Bedford. But as Carlos himself has told me, a crisis, now that is when you can make a lot of money. And Carlos Rafael would do just that. Throughout the world, New Bedford, Massachusetts is best known as the whaling city. New Bedford, as you may know, is the port that inspired Moby Dick and where the author, Herman Melville, set out on his own whaling voyage. The first whale ship, the Darton, sailed out of this port. But if you stepped off a boat there in the 1960s, when Carlos arrived and wandered into the neighborhoods along County Street or Rivet Street, you'd find a very different world from the one Melville knew. That entire area was all Portuguese. Maria Tomasia, like Carlos Rafael, came to New Bedford from the Azores. It's like every island or every town had their own club. You know, there's the Pont de Dargada Club, there's the Fial Club, there's the Mederez Club, there's the Fisherman Club, Central Louza Club or for the Saunch Club. So everybody had their place to socialize. There were two Portuguese newspapers. There was a Portuguese radio station, a dedicated Portuguese library with over 3,000 titles in it. This was the capital of Portuguese North America. The Portuguese immigration here started in the Moby Dick era, the middle of the 1800s. Whaling ships out of New Bedford would stop in the Azores and Cape Verde to pick up supplies. People got on board as well. And then more people followed and more people. And they saw there was a fishing industry. You lived by the water. Once you lived by the water, it's very difficult to go anyplace else and not see that water. By 1970, Massachusetts was home to one third of all Portuguese immigrants in the entire country. And most of those people were clustered in the coastline near New Bedford. Within the fishing industry itself, there's actually an interesting ethnic divide, historically at least. For many years, the scallop boats tended to be run by Norwegian immigrants. But the draggers, the boats that went after bottom fish like cod and flounder, they were overwhelmingly Portuguese, 80 to 90% by one estimate. They will be the focus of this story. And in the 1970s, when Carlos was still new in town, those fishermen were in trouble. I would be mostly as a translator. The man the fishermen went to for help was Maria Tomasi's boss, New Bedford Congressman Gary Studs. You're concerned about the fact that, you know, there were other people out there. Other people out there. Other people competing for the same cod, haddock and flounder off the coast of New England. But with bigger boats, bigger nets. What the fishermen described was a foreign invasion. That's how they would talk about it. They felt that they were taking away what was theirs. Okay, coming up, we've got a Russian big-water trawler. He's about 12 and a half miles off the coast. It's a little hard to imagine now. But in the 1970s, foreign fishing boats could come as close as 12 miles off the coast, and they could catch whatever they wanted. This audio is from a Coast Guard flyover just off Cape Cod. Okay, this is a boat carrying. There were German boats, Russian, Spanish, Japanese, all drawn to the rich coastal waters of New England. And because they were so far from port, these ships were essentially floating factories. They filleted, froze, or canned the fish right on board, working for months at a time on a massive scale. Probably averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of, say, 35 to 40 tons a day. I used to see miles and miles and miles of these ships. They look like big cruise ships. Rodney Avala was a young fisherman at the time, just starting out. And I used to say, I'm going to have no fish when I grow up. Modern trawling techniques are sweeping everything from the sea. This foreign presence really ramped up over the 1960s, so that by the mid-70s, if you looked at the total catch on New England's very best fishing grounds, 90% of it was pulled up by foreign boats, 90%. And the fishermen and scientists alike could see the effects. And that's how the whole thing came into being, is that they wanted something done about it. That's where Congressman Gary Studs came in. For several of the reasons that I cited in my brief remarks, I think that the time is right to ask to extend these protections. Studs was always a bit of an odd fit to represent the working class Portuguese hub of New Bedford. He was formal, clean cut, Yale educated. In pictures of him from the 1970s, he looks like he could be in the 1950s with black horn-rimmed glasses and plain suits. And on top of all that, Gary Studs was also concealing the fact that he was gay. The suggestive term people used for him at the time was a confirmed bachelor, not a strong political brand in those days. But Studs was driven. When I first met him, he introduced himself in Portuguese. So when he ran for that seat, Studs took a six-week intensive course in Portuguese, then spent another six weeks traveling around the Azores, Cape Verde, and mainland Portugal. Oh Maria, how are you doing? You know, I'm doing well. Yeah, so that type of thing. You've gotten anything good lately? In 1973, New Bedford sent Studs to Washington as their representative. And in that very first term, he also landed a seat on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee, which meant he was actually in a perfect position to do something about the whole foreign invasion issue. So that same year, Studs teamed up with Congressman Don Young from Alaska to introduce what they like to call the Young Studs Bill, but was commonly known as the 200-mile Bill. It would probably be something like a 200-mile economic zone where the... It would establish a new ocean boundary that foreign vessels could not cross, an invisible fence exactly 200 miles offshore, and inside that fence, our richest fishing grounds would be reserved exclusively for American boats. A 200-mile extension of U.S. coastal jurisdiction. You would think that bill would be an easy win. I mean, who would oppose kicking out foreign fishing boats? Gary Studs was about to find out. The problem, as it has so often been in subsequent years, was the United States Department of State. And it turns out the bad guy in this story is the U.S. Department of State, which makes some sense. The diplomats wanted to resolve these fishery issues diplomatically with an international treaty. They did not want to just unilaterally draw a line in the ocean. It could impact trade, military movement, intelligence gathering. Studs was saying, it can't wait. By the time a big international treaty is ratified, the fish will be gone. That's when Studs realized there was a deeper problem underneath it all. I discovered that the biggest problem that those of us who represent maritime areas have was that nobody in Washington knew anything about it. And the best example I can think of... This is Studs recalling the story in a speech a few years later, where he gave a specific example to illustrate the challenge. For years, Studs had tried to get the American lobster designated as a, quote, creature of the shelf, meaning it lived, as the name implies, on the continental shelf and could be protected from foreign fishing boats. We held hearings to find out why the State Department had not designated the lobster to be a creature of the shelf. And the State Department, I kid you not, came in and testified I can still picture them three men. There they were all lined up in very, very fancy three-piece suits to inform the House Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries that the lobster was not a creature of the continental shelf because international law defined a creature of the shelf as an animal which never left the ocean floor. And the State Department had verified that when the lobster was excited it jumped up and down and left the ocean floor. Now, I wish I could tell you I was exaggerating to make a point, but I am not. I asked the Department of State if they thought the kangaroo was a creature of the earth. And there was no response whatsoever. I threatened on several occasions to put an unpagued lobster on the witness table in front of them to see if any of them had ever met one. I seriously doubted. Washington is populated by people who think that lobsters are red and that is the source or at least the symbol of a great many of the problems that we have had over the years in trying to accomplish things. If you don't know, lobsters, when they are alive and uncooked, are not red. They're greenish-brown. That year the bill went nowhere and the foreign harvest of the sea floor went on. Carlos Rafael is in his early 20s at this point. He's been in the country for maybe five years and while Gary Studs is learning the ways of Washington, Carlos is learning the trade of a fish cutter. What does it take to cut a fish? What does it take? A little bit of knowledge, but as you learn, you get to it and once you get to it, the name of the game is shopping your knife. Carlos started out working under a Cape Verdean man who showed him how to hone his blade until it was so sharp he could shave the hairs off his forearm. Once you got a gig of it, once you know what you're doing and you got a sharp knife, then it's like ice cream, it's easy. In an eight-hour shift, each fish cutter was supposed to fill 16 boxes, 125 pounds each, so 2,000 pounds of fish a day for an average cutter. I won't say I was the best one in the city, but I bet you I was the fourth of the fifth best in the city as a fish cutter. I would cut 20, 22, sometimes 24 boxes by 2 to 30 in the afternoon, so I would go into the men's room, upstairs, I would sit and smoke a cigarette and the boss would come, get your butt to work, I said, I'm not going to work now, I'm having a cigarette. You've been here for 20 minutes, it's too bad, you're fired. So I must have got fired 50 times working for this company, but it could never fire me because I was always way over. As Carlos said before, he did not come to this country to work for someone else. This was not his American dream, but it was also not a great time to strike out on his own. Even from the floor of the fish plant, Carlos could tell the industry was in trouble. You know, not much fish around and so far, we're going through a crisis way back then. Catches were down, some species had virtually disappeared, and Gary Studs knew all this too. So Studs came back around for another try, this time smarter. The presence of the foreign fleets out there who were literally raping the resource, the eastern block countries, the Soviets, the Japanese. This time, Studs mounted a public campaign for the 200-mile bill. He held hearings, he met personally with President Ford, he teamed up with a whole fleet of fishing boats that sailed down the coast and up the Potomac to D.C. The foreign fishing activity in the campaign worked. Legislation under which the United States laid claim to a 200-mile limit on its coastal waters. This time, the bill passed, and in 1976, 50 years ago, Gerald Ford signed what became known as the Magnuson Act, after Warren Magnuson, the senator who co-sponsored it. Today, I guarantee you, any fishing captain in the country will know exactly what you mean if you say the name Magnuson. One of Studs staff members told me that years later, as the Magnuson Act became increasingly controversial, Studs would sometimes say, Thank God, they didn't name it after me. So, I started playing music again. I actually just played this folk festival recently. And now that I'm playing music, I need to look a lot sharper than my typical athleisure sweatpants working from home outfit, right? So, I picked up this blue chorecoat from Quince that I absolutely adore. It's durable, it fits great, it looks cool, and it costs less than $100. You see, everything at Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're getting premium materials without the markup. Inspired by jet engine silences, the Dyson Hushjet Purify powerfully purifies the entire room, quietly, capturing pollen, allergens, and pet dander, removing odours and harmful gases such as NO2, day and night. Hushjet, powerful, compact purification, that's quiet. I went to the owner and I told him, I'm giving you two months to get somebody to replace me because I'm going to do this for myself. Or you're never going to make it, he says, that's your opinion. We will see if I make it or not. The rebellious teenager who ran away from the monastery and cherished his plastic wings was going to follow through on his promise to work for himself in America. That was the beginning of Carlos Seafood. And truly, Carlos' timing was very, very good. Because after the 200-mile limit went into effect and the foreign fleets were gone, congressmen's studs helped use federal money to usher in a golden age for the New Bedford fleet. Again, Rodney Avila, New Bedford fisherman. Interest rates at that time were quite high. If you were buying a house, you might pay 10%, 15% interest. But if you were buying a fishing boat, it was basically free money. And I'll do all the rest. Remember, 90% of the fishing pressure had just been removed in some areas. So at this point, overfishing was not really a concern. How could our dinky little fleet even approach the damage that those floating factories had done? So you took that $5,000 and 27 cents. What did you buy? What did you set up? I would buy fish at night from the fishing vessels, lobsters, monkfish, scallops. At first, Carlos was just a small-time dealer, a middleman scouting for side deals around the docks. But in those days, if you were making money in fishing, you'd be stupid to not put that money into a boat. So that's what Carlos did. He bought two boats, in fact. And I should clarify, Carlos did not captain those boats. He never captained his boats. In fact, Carlos told me he went out to sea just once, right around this time. And I swore I'll never go again. Why? Because that's not fit for human beings. Carlos got so seasick on that trip, he offered to pay for all the extra fuel if the captain would just drop him off at the closest port. He literally leapt off the boat as it approached the dock. And from that point on, Carlos Rafael was not a fisherman. He was a businessman. So I think I did pretty good. But I would work 20 hours a day, 18 hour days. I didn't have no breaks. Vast quantities of valuable, healthy protein can now be harvested by the U.S. industry if it expands its capabilities. From 1976 to 1982, the New England fishing fleet doubled in size, from 600 boats to 1200 boats. And it wasn't just about the total number. These were bigger boats with more powerful engines. They were made of steel instead of wood. They had new nets, new fish finding technology. The skipper stays close to the cabin during the tow, watching a remarkable collection of electronic instruments. If you ever look at footage or pictures of fishing boats, you can spot the differences right away. On the older boats, the pilot house, the enclosed area, is way in the back with the open deck space in front, because the crews would haul nets on board by hand over the side. The modern boats have a pilot house toward the front, so they can pull their nets up from the back of the boat with a hydraulic winch. Finally, the net comes winding back onto the overhead drum, the fish are shaken down into the cod end. It was like the leap from propeller planes to jet engines, a whole new era, a new generation of technology. Demand for seafood was growing very fast at that time, and so Magnuson offered a chance for the U.S. industry to modernize, to reclaim its ocean food chain. Studs himself called Magnuson a rebirth for the fishing industry, and locally at least, he was a hero. Please give a rousing New Bedford welcome to Congressman Gary Studs. I talked to one congressional staffer who told me that he knew people in New Bedford who would display a picture of Studs in their home right next to a picture of the Pope. And that's what Gary Studs was for them was their savior because they loved them. This fishing industry has known times in the past when everyone thought all was lost. Maria Tomasia remembered that later on when Studs sexuality was revealed as part of a congressional probe, when he was publicly censured, and when he chose to run for office again as the first openly gay congressman in American history. Even then, the city and the Portuguese community did not turn on him. As soon as they saw him, they would start yelling and applauding, and I was like, unbelievable. You have to understand that for coastal communities, the Magnuson Act was like the New Deal because each new boat employed a crew. Each crewman supported a family and together they supported a whole waterfront economy. So it was just tremendous. In every way, everybody was benefitting from it and that's what the American dream was about. Carlos Rafael and Rodney Avila were part of a whole generation who rode the Magnuson wave. To this day, you can walk along the harbor in New Bedford and see the boats they've built from 1978, 79, 1980, the boom times. But for the fishing industry, Magnuson was always a faustian bargain. They asked the government to get involved in their business, to formalize what had been informal, to regulate what had been unregulated. They got their wish, but they also got more. And my uncle, again, Rodney Avila, he said to me, you don't want the Magnuson Act that I kept saying, why they're going to take my fish? And he said to me, there'll still be enough fish to support you. But once you let the government into your living room, it's like your mother-in-law coming to visit you. You never get them out. We're going to jump forward in time, because I want you to see where all these changes are headed, why they matter, specifically to Carlos Rafael. It's 2015, almost 40 years after Magnuson became law, 40 years after New England fishermen cautiously welcomed the government into their world. Now the boom times are over. The fishing industry is struggling. A disaster is a disaster. And that's true whether we're talking about crops or whether we're talking about fish. The years leading up to 2015 had been brutal for New England fishermen. A dramatic 77 percent cut in the cod catch. The catch quotas set by the government kept getting lower and lower. That's going to be a heck of a number of people out on unemployment. The regulations kept getting tighter and tighter. Prospects are the bleakest they've ever been. That I'm going to be tied up for months. And that's the kind of draconian bureaucracy that fishermen are living with and struggling to maintain. For many fishermen, it meant the end of a career, the end of a way of life. We are the most regulated fishery in the world. And Carlos is tired of it all. He employs hundreds of people, manages dozens of boats, but his own daughter doesn't want to take over what he's built. So he decides to put the empire up for sale. In May of that year, Carlos got a phone call from a broker, someone who helped very wealthy clients manage their money. This broker had a pair of Russian businessmen in New York who had made an awful lot of money, something involving healthcare equipment. Now they're looking for a place to invest it. Carlos told the broker everything was up for grabs. The boats, the nets, the dredges, permits, property, a fish processing plant, the whole enchilada, as he put it. I gave him a silver platter, the whole enchilada. The price was $175 million. No problem, the broker said. Let's talk. Two weeks later, the Russians drove through the chain link gate and parked in front of the fish plant, a plain blocky building made of corrugated metal, like a big shipping container, with a sign on the side, Carlos Seafood. The Russians drove a BMW 5 Series, the sport version with a V8 engine. They wore Louis Vuitton shoes and Versace belts, pinky rings, Rolexes. Carlos was in his usual outfit of jeans and a worn out flannel. The breast pocket stuffed with slips of paper, and of course, a pack of cigarettes. He did not look like a man worth $175 million. Carlos led the men through the plant and up a metal staircase to his office, the one filled with pictures of Scarface. The Russian buyers, however, are not buyers. But they are very curious about the business, and they are recording everything. They're undercover feds. I'm picturing in a white van with headphones on. There are white vans. Ron Mullet was the case agent with the IRS. But I don't recall if on that particular day, white vans were involved. I was certainly somewhere where I could respond if things went sideways in there. So how did the IRS first get interested in Carlos Rafael? They recognized that he was growing in a time where the industry was shrinking. Most boats sit idle, confined by federal rules, the limit when they can fish and what they can catch. People were having a hard time meeting their loans on their boats. Yet he was succeeding, and he can step right up and has an abundance of cash to buy them out and buy their permits, most importantly. That led to different theories from other law enforcement that he must be involved in some other illicit illegal activity, and it ran the gambit. Some agencies thought he was involved in human trafficking or smuggling. Some people thought it was drugs. People thought there was public corruption. Several different agencies had feelings that it was something, but none of them could figure out what it was. The IRS, despite its reputation, does not just investigate tax fraud. As one agent put it to me, we do everything but crimes of passion. As long as there's money involved, we'll take it. That's why these other federal agencies wanted to brief Mullet on Carlos Rafael. There was obviously money involved here. It was just no one knew where it was coming from. I listened to their brief, I thanked them for their time, and I left and put the briefing sheet in my drawer, expecting never to look at it again. A few months later, Mullet heard from a source that Carlos was looking to cash out, and figured maybe this was his chance to get a peek inside the fish plant. Mullet recruited a pair of undercover agents with Russian accents, then a third agent to play the broker, and sent them in to buy Carlos seafood. Again, none of them knew what kind of business Carlos was really in. It could be drugs, it could be arms dealing, so they had no idea what the man was capable of. And it didn't help that the building was full of long, sharp knives used to filet fish. There was an uncertain moment early on when Rafael noticed his three guests were all wearing the exact same 18 karat gold Rolex watch, but the leader of the group didn't miss a beat. Those were Christmas gifts for the boys, he said. So Ron Mullet was listening intently for any signs of trouble, and also for any clues as to what Rafael's true business was. The men got to talking, and Carlos was happy to talk about his business. This was his life. He talked about scallops, he said, and he talked about scallops. He talked about scalpers and draggers. He talked about the regulations he had to deal with, the sectors, the quotas, the permits, stuff the IRS agents didn't really understand. And more than anything, Carlos talked about the art of buying and selling fish, an obsession he has maintained since his days as a small-time dealer. But for the undercover agents, who again were pretending they wanted to buy out the whole business, there was a mystery staring them in the face, that asking price of 175 million. As big as Carlos' seafood was, that number seemed like a lot. So the agents asked for some proof that this business was really worth what Carlos said it was worth. And he, within probably the first 10 or 15 minutes, he called his accountant. To send this stuff over, the financials and tax returns and stuff. But early on, it was, there's a part of the business that she doesn't know about, and we're not going to talk about that. Because she's going to go through your la la la la la la because she don't know nothing. That's what it meant. We want to talk with you separately about it. Okay, because. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we're talking about, Carlos. So the accountant is on her way over with the financials. She'll be there in 10 minutes. The plan had been to take a break and go down to the docks. But now everyone understands that there is a certain corner of the business, that if it comes up, the accountant will cover her ears and go la la la la. That's what he means by that. So what to do? These buyers seem serious, and they are clearly smart enough to know that the business on those official financial statements is not worth 175 million, which means Carlos has a decision to make quickly. They coming back here, they says the numbers doesn't justify 175 million. So stupid of me. I go in a bottom draw of this desk. We're just sitting there right now. Yes, well. And what he does, he opened the drawer and I got another set of books. And he put it on the desk right here. Tell me it's not worth that. We said $5 million. There you go. There he is. This is normally. That's where we want to go the la la la before she gets it. This is at Cabo Seafoods. This set of books was labeled simply cash. However, the lines of numbers on the ledger did not reveal a smuggling operation or a drug business. It was more fish, more prices, more lists of pounds and species. Because while other fishermen had been suffering and protesting under the system of regulations created by the Magnuson Act, Carlos Rafael had figured out a way to break the system entirely, to catch whatever he wanted to catch and get away with it for years. And this was not just about being a rebel and reeling in a few too many fish that he sold on the side. This was an operation. Carlos falsified official documents. He manipulated gaps in the enforcement system. He built up a network for selling black market fish to high-end restaurants involving a mafia associate, two corrupt cops, duffel bags full of cash and money hidden in offshore bank accounts. All adding up to millions of dollars worth of fish. The fishing was not a front. It was not a distraction. The fishing was the crime. You will not see it up there. I watched it. That was Cabo Seafoods. With the tension broken in all his cards on the table, Carlos joked with these men who he had only met that day, that he's really trusting them at this point. I do not know you could be the fucking IRS any of these could be a fucking clusterfuck. We have the same affinity for IRS in you, though. I regret that for the rest of my life, son of a bitch. They would have never, never got me. But hey, it's over. This is a story about one man's choice to break the rules. But I see it as part of a much bigger story. Americans, we've always hated government regulation. That rebellious attitude Carlos has is not unique. It's part of the American dream, really, that desire to be autonomous, to work for yourself, to make your own luck, as Carlos put it. That culture has always been there. But the place we are in now somehow feels different. Today, the very idea of government regulation has become polarized. And I mean that on both sides of the political spectrum. It seems like people are instinctively for it or against it before they even know what it is. Like as a matter of principle, people on the left are mostly focused on the benefits of regulation, how it can be a tool for justice, for safety, preservation. People on the right seem to be mostly focused on the harms and the costs, to the point that there is talk of dismantling the regulatory state entirely, shutting down whole agencies, stripping it down to nothing. Surely there is some nuance between these extremes. But the fact is, most of us don't want to look that close. It's boring. It's complicated. So we look away. Fishermen do not have the luxury of looking away. Nor for that matter, do truck drivers or small business owners or nurses, farmers, a lot of us. And I should be clear here that I am one of the lucky Americans who leads a pretty unregulated life. I make podcasts that go out on the internet. I don't need a permit or a license. I can say whatever I want, including swears. I can make any number of episodes anyone can do. Anyone can listen to them anywhere. It's a little hard for me to appreciate what it means to have your day-to-day work monitored by the state, to constantly bump up against rules that feel arbitrary. It's hard for me to appreciate the anger that someone like Carlos Rafael feels, but that anger is real. And that is why I am telling this story. The details of the operation aside, could you talk a little bit more about your motivations? Why it felt like these rules shouldn't be followed? It was not for the money. See, I'm the type of guy that I know the whole thing from the bottom up, because I started as a load on fishing boats. I know what it takes, what you need to raise a family and to get ahead in life. And they forced me to do bullshit so I could keep all these people working. So you felt like you had to break the law in order to protect the people who worked for you? No questions asked. No questions asked. They forced you to do it. They forced me to cheat. They forced me to cheat. When I walked out of Carlos Seafood that first day, I was skeptical of what I just heard. It all felt pretty self-serving. Of course Carlos sees himself as the hero, the rogue fighting back against an overbearing state. On its own, he was easy to dismiss. But then again, I mean we have to look at both sides of the story, every calling has two sides. As I've talked with more people who fished out of New Bedford, who worked for Carlos and who knew him, the image I get is not simple. When you first met him, you'd say, oh this guy's a mafioso. But actually, he had a heart. In the fishing industry, Carlos Rafael remains a deeply divisive figure. If he wasn't born crooked, he must have learned it before he could talk. Someone who inspires jealousy, fury, and fear. Only Carlos turned into the biggest crook in America. Just Carlos. He is a product of his own moral depravity. And someone who despite all his crimes, all his deceptions, a lot of people continue to root for. Do you blame him for what he did? Do you think what he did is wrong? No, I don't. No, I don't. So who is Carlos Rafael really? A folk hero? A crook? A righteous rebel? A selfish con man? I believe in order to judge the crimes of Carlos, you also have to judge the whole system that he chose to break. So we're going to cover those 40 years from the passage of Magnuson to the arrest of Carlos Rafael, to understand that system and the anger that grew up around it. And here is my hope for the series. If you are one of those people who instinctively thinks government regulation is good and necessary, this story will make you question that instinct. If you are someone who thinks regulation is flawed and burdensome and unnecessary, this story will make you question that instinct. And if you are someone who before today thought lobsters are red, then if nothing else, you are about to learn a whole lot about where your fish comes from. We've got riot gear police lined up all down the street here all the way past the gate. In part two, what the government gives, the government can take away. People are being taken into custody left and right here. The last of the dealers are now out of the line hit the pavement. That's next time. I went through a city and I really recognized it. I want that one for sure, the shortest I've ever seen. I have your fishing boats that make parties when you get to the gate. I buy all your work, I have the gas, I love you and I support you. Viva, viva, ano, back for, that little queen of immigrants. Viva, viva, ano, back for, the mother of the children of the distant lands. Viva, viva, ano, back for, I create an emotion for you. Viva, viva, ano, back for, the mother of my heart. All right, that's it. If you want to check out the rest of this season of The Big Dig, catching the codfather, we've got a link in the show notes. The Codfather series is produced by Isabel Hibbard and Ian Kos. It's edited by Lacey Roberts. The editorial supervisor is Jennifer McKim with support from Ryan Alderman. The artwork is by Bill Miller and that absolutely amazing deep cut closing song is Viva Viva, New Bedford by Georges Ferrera. The Big Dig is a production of GBH News and distributed by PRX. And outside in is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Have you ever asked yourself, can the president really do that or wondered if there was too much money in political campaigns? Then check out the new season of You Might Be Right, hosted by us former Tennessee governors Phil Bredesen and Bill Haslam. We're back for a brand new season now and You Might Be Right cements the idea that constructive disagreement can lead to real problem solving. This season, we're going to dig into the role of the National Guard, AI regulation and a lot more. New episodes drop every other week. Follow You Might Be Right wherever you get your podcasts. We all need advice, but it's not always clear who to ask even in 2026. Enter how to. The long standing advice show and ambi award nominated best personal growth podcast that's back with new episodes and a new host who me, Mike Peska. Each week I tackle a listener question ranging from travel to finance to relationships and beyond with help from a world class expert, you know, someone who actually very much knows what they're talking about. Think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session without the co-pay or awkward silences. You've got questions, we'll find the experts and the answers. So follow How To with Mike Peska wherever you get podcasts.