Good Goal. Questionable Process.

How long is the flight? So two hours to Dallas, two and a half to Tampa. Are you purposely saying it like that? Saying what? The city in Texas. No, no, sorry. Not Dallas. It's one of the, it's like the major airport in Washington. It's called Washington, Dallas. Oh, okay. I thought this was another mishap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Washington, Dallas. This is Detroit all over again. Welcome to 32 Thoughts The Podcast, presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers and the 100% electric BZ, available now during red tag days. It's your Monday morning edition, Dom Shermadi, Elliot Friedman, and Kyle Bacoskis with you once again. For age, the margins and the playoffs, as you know, are razor thin, and they certainly were in Orange County in overtime on Sunday night. Ryan Paling, the hero for the Ducks, they lead the Oilers three games to one. On the goal that was probably in, it was really difficult to tell for sure under the skate of Tristan Jari. However, it was the process of getting to that point that's kind of come under scrutiny here in the emotional aftermath of that game. I agree with what you said on the air afterwards. And look, you were the one that was on the phone with the situation room. So why don't you bring us up to speed on what you were told there and just your whole feeling about how that game ended at Honda Center. So first of all, obviously I had a lot to say on social media and after the game. Even though I may disagree with some of the things that happened, you don't need to pile drive anyone to the ground. So let's just stick to the facts here. They called it a goal on the ice. I respectfully disagree with that call. I just don't think anybody was in position to make that call. And then when they sent out the email blast later on in the night at 1.58 a.m., the situation room determined that the puck completely crossed the goal line. Now let me just say that when I made my phone call, that was not specifically communicated to me at the time. It was later. It was not at the time. But I think it's important to recognize that it was probably a bit of chaos. It's right after the game and we had a quick conversation. So it's okay. Like it's fine. That was not communicated to me at the time. But like I said, it was chaos. When they sent out the email at 1.58, they said the puck was completely over the line. And I do believe that first of all, the puck was probably in. Logically it was in. But at the time, I had been told that there were no replays that could overturn the call on the ice, which was good goal, which I respect. There was no replay that could overturn the call. So I understand how they ended up there. I think it's the right outcome. I just disagreed with the process. And I also really strongly believe, Kyle, that at the end of the day, people in the league felt that they couldn't go to Pat Verbeek and Stan Bowman, the two GMs, and say that was no goal. That they felt that was a goal. And because the call was made on the ice, they couldn't overturn it. Now one thing I'm going to say here that I strongly disagree with, and it's 2.25 AM, and I was just sent this text message by someone, I had somebody send me a note saying, the original call on the ice doesn't matter. I was like, and this was not somebody in the league. This was someone who is, this is not somebody who works in the national office. I want to make that clear at the beginning. And I just said, I think that is total BS, total BS, because there have been times when I've had this debate about people, and they have said to me that generally all the GMs get told, and Betman has said this himself, that you only overturn calls if they're dead wrong. Okay? So for me, if for anyone to claim that the call on the ice doesn't matter, that is, that flies in the face of everything that I've ever been told covering the league. And it's been made very clear to me that the commissioner himself uses the words dead wrong. And sometimes even one more word piled into there, which I will not repeat on a family podcast. So I'm not even this late at night. Not even this late at night. Will you go down that road? Will I go down that road? So like, I don't want to hear that. I can totally understand that they felt that was a goal. I can totally understand logically it was a goal. And I completely feel that, like the idea that you go to Pat Verbeek especially and say, you know what, I can't tell you that's not a goal. I got no problem with that. I just, you know what, like I just said, like, I think we all look at that and say it's a goal. I just think the process there, you know, there was a referee I had a big fight with last year. Good referee, a guy I really like. And you know, we had a big fight over something. And at the end of the day, he said to me, don't guess. Like either you know or you don't. Okay. And I think that's the right approach. And I just think in this situation, they weren't in a position where they could make that call. You know what, I would like to have seen there just from a point of view of if this happens in the future is they're going to review that call anyway. The NHL always looks at goals. Are they in or not in legally or cleanly? So even if the officials on the ice had ruled that no goal, they still have the right to look at it and say, we're going to check it. So it didn't, there didn't even have to be a goal call there. It was still going to be reviewed. We've talked about this on this podcast before and because again, this is the process of how they got to the point of what they called on the ice, you know, take away the review part and the situation room from the equation, but how they got to the decision on the ice where they said, we have a goal and now we're going to review another example of where it would be wonderful if somebody could go down to the officials room and just be able to get an answer of what was the conversation between the four of you? How did you get to that point? Because it looked impossible for anybody, any of the four there, where they were situated when that puck trickled right to the goal line, almost across, probably just enough across to be able to say then and there, yes, we have a goal. And then at least we have some sort of explanation, but that is not the world we live in here and now with the league. And so we're forced to talk about it this way instead. By the way, is there been any further steps towards a world in which there's something resembling VAR in terms of puck technology being able to track where it is in the NHL? Not as far as I know, but my kingdom for tracking that works. You know, it's interesting, like they've tried cameras in the goalpost, they've tried cameras in the crossbars, they're really challenging things because they get obscured too. It's not like they haven't tried other things, but no technology. Kyle, we need the technology. There are really smart people in this world. You must build us the technology. Yes. Give Hawkeye a call. I think they've looked at that a bit, but again, it's because the goalie blocks some of the... This would have been the exact kind of play that might not have worked on Hawkeye from what I understand because the skates blocking the puck. That's right. So there is still not a correct answer. On social media, there were some pictures of people who obviously know the dimensions of a puck and they kind of draw it, for lack of a better term, what it would look like underneath the skate. It looks like it's in. I mean, it's probably in. I think we all recognize that now. Then some people sent similar drawings to me, like photo shops of what the puck would actually look like. I was kind of laughing with someone. I was saying, what did I say? Do you have like a protractor at home or one of those metal compasses we used to have from grade eight geometry? We were kind of laughing about it and they said, well, you can use the dimensions and there's stuff for this. One thing I learned tonight was that the NHL has something like this. I don't know if it's AI or what, but they have some technology that allows them to do that. Make the decision for them, but they look at it and they say, okay, it does have no the dimensions of the puck and this is where we think it is and they use it internally, I think to support and explain their calls. So look, to me at the end of the day, what this is about is you got to look two GMs in the eyes and say, this is how we came to this decision. This is what we think is right. And especially for Pat Verbeek and the docs, they're like, hey, we can't go to them and say that's not a goal. And that's how I think they came to this. It doesn't take away from Anaheim. They deserve the win as much as Edmonton did. And the Oilers here are really pushed to the brink, really pushed to the brink. I don't think it's impossible, but it's been wild to see how Edmonton, which has terrorized the league on its power play for years, is getting really hurt by the Anaheim power play up to nothing, two penalties, two goals. And the docs are full measure for this win. This is not a fluke that they're up three to one. This is not them goalying the Oilers. They have earned and deserve this win. I think the things that you look for at your Edmonton, you say, okay, we hang our hat on this is Jari was good. He gave you a chance to win. And also, McDavid had a couple plays in the third period that made him look a little more healthy if that's the right phrase to use. He looked a bit more like himself, but it's not impossible for them, but it's a big hold to climb against a confident young team that just doesn't think it can win. It believes it's full value for the win. Yeah. And that's the big part. We also mentioned, I think it was Mark Spector that asked McDavid after the Game Point blank about his health. And though he didn't answer directly, just as any or most players would in that spot, we're all playing through something at this time of year. But to see the jump in the third period, you're right. That's a positive sign for the Oilers. It's been amazing to watch Anaheim through this series that the belief grow through Game One to two, to three, and now four, as you say, not just hoping to beat a team like Edmonton, but now thinking they really can do it. It was a great interview with Mason McTavish and Scott Oak in the aftermath. We've talked about on this pod through this series, some of the the forwards, the young forwards going through this for the first time. How great they have looked. Jackson Lacombe here on Sunday night, nearly 30 minutes for a game that just got into overtime. You know, for all the love of the forwards again, and he has been incredible as the guy on defense for the Ducks going through all of this for the very first time in the postseason. And not only not looking out of place, but staking claim of a pretty big role here. It's cool to watch. Guy couldn't even get a minute at the Olympics. Uh-huh. By the way, I'm laughing here. There's a tweet from JC the Swede. My head already hurts in anticipation for 10 minutes of discourse on the podcast about this. Hopefully, JC, we cut it a bit short for you. Yes. And that you came to armed with, I don't know, a heat pack. Try to soothe you. All right. Anything else on this one, Fridge? I would think that if any team is capable of coming back from a 3-1 deficit, the Oilers would be very high on the list. Like I said, McDavid looked better at the end of the game, but you've got dry-sidle not 100%. You've got Dickinson not 100%. And you've got the Ducks flying confident. Jeffrey Vale, one of the heroes of this series, traded for a fourth rounder. Like he was going to go on waivers, I believe. And then Verbeek said, no, I'll make the trade just to make sure I get him. Right now, the Ducks, they're good and everything's coming up, millhouse for them. But if there was one team I would look at that could come back from 3-1, I still think Edmundon could be that team. Banged up and beaten up a bit, write them off at your own peril. They have looked on the ropes and in deep, deep trouble a couple of times over the last two years on route to Stanley Cup Final appearances. They found a way then, and now they are being asked to do it once again, down three games to one head and home for game five back in Edmundon. Now, meanwhile, earlier on Sunday night, the Montreal Canadiens and the Tampa Bay Lightning for the first time in the series, no overtime was necessary between these two teams. Do you have a guess, Elliot Friedman, of who led all Tampa Skaters in ice time in game number four? All Tampa Skaters? All of them. Was it Crozier? It was not. He led the team in devastating hits, and we'll get to that in a minute. Was it Hegel? It was Brandon Hegel. Okay. More than Darren Raddish, more than JJ Mosier. He was just over 25 and a half minutes a player who would not be denied on this day. Trying to avoid going down three to one, they do just that. Two more goals for Hegel. He was the guy that had the roof going off the Bell Center at Four Nations over a year ago. He silenced the crowd here on Sunday night. By the way, I have to say, you had a lot of great interviews. You had a great, your Hegel one was a great interview, and your Cole Hudson one was a great interview. You are, I give you your props, Kyle. You're on a run of really good interviews in these playoffs. But fortunate to have some good guests. Yes. Nice to see. But still you have. By the way, I wanted to say too, it was really funny because I put out the video of the cap and pen and we'll get to that there. And I had DMs from Canadians fans calling me anti-Canadian and saying, why do I hate Canada's team, the Montreal Canadians? And then when I made the comment about the Orthers game, I had a bunch of Ducks fans saying, I root for Canada and I hate the United States. You cannot win. But those are the nights that are so awesome about hockey, Kyle. And those are the nights that I actually really love working in this business because we have great fans and some of you are crazy. But without your passion, none of us have jobs. Yes. And like we're all on social media together and we're all going through this together and it's awesome stuff. It actually reminds me of a story that it actually reminds me of a story. You remember the comeback on Catala, right? Yep. So Bob Murray was the GM of the Ducks at the time and him and I actually got along reasonably well. And but I found out like that. So that night, on one of the goals in the comeback, the Ducks had held the leg of the Edmonton goalie, but nobody noticed it until the intermission. And someone sent me a note saying they held the goalie. So they played, we found the replay, the overhead and there it was. They were holding the leg of the Edmonton goalie and we were, and we just made a big deal out of it, the intermission. The guys, the bosses at the time, it sports that the next day I came in and they'd gotten a call from the league and they were kind of laughing. They said, the Ducks called the league and, and said, is there no such thing as unbiased reporting anymore? You've got this Homer Canadian and this Homer broadcast showing video of us holding the leg. Uh, says these guys are total homers and they're trying to get a penalties called against us and they're trying to fix the series for the Oilers. And I said, well, what did you guys, it said, what did you guys say? And they said, well, I mean, the video was pretty conclusive. But it was just funny. Like, uh, somebody had sent me a text about that tonight after the game, but it's the second time I've been pro Oiler and anti Ducks in an overtime game involving those series are laughing about that old memory. Anyway, sorry. Oh God. Let's get to this game. Yes. Actually, can I, can I add to that about just the fandom? Like just leaving the building on Sunday, there was a haves fan that was like, uh, hey, don't you think the Kutra faked an injury just so we can get the penalty on Evans? I'm like, I don't know, man, Evans gave him a pretty good ride in the boards. Like, I don't think many of us would be getting up after like, did you see how hard Kutra went into the boards? Like, oh, do you think he faked an injury? I'm like, I don't think so. That was a pretty solid thought. But near eyes should have just got up. It's crazy. It is. Uh, you know, it's funny. Like, first of all, I think the embellishing in this playoffs, not, not to this specific play. Um, but just in general, the embellishment in this class, we've talked about it. It's been horrendous. And it's screwing up the officials. Like I know people are getting on the referees and I know they were mad about the cap and play and we'll get to that in a second. But like some of these plays, it's on the players that the officials are so screwed up. They're going to be four and we'll say it again. Like, I was talking to someone on Sunday and he said to me, they really thought that by calling those embellishments on Crosby and McKinnon, they would solve the problem because the players would look and they would say, okay, one of the greatest players ever and potentially the hard trophy winner this season just got called for embellishment on back-to-back nights. That'll send a message and it hasn't worked. So I don't know what these guys are going to do now, but what a great series Tampa Montreal. Like we all thought we were getting seven games of this. There's nothing between these two teams. Like whoever wins this series, it's not an upset. It is just a hard fought, hard played, great series. And nobody should be surprised. It's two, two through four and we're probably going seven and there's nothing between these two teams. So the cap and end, you know, we all say this a little bit of inside baseball for everybody. We felt very strongly that we had to show it because people were using the one Sportsnet play to show that there was no penalty and James certainly looked like he embellished. But you know, we felt that we have to show that there was a penalty on this play. It was just a little earlier and high sticking is getting called everywhere. Like to me, that's the most consistent call. The playoffs, Kyle is high sticking. If people get their sticks up, they're getting called and it's happening in every series. So when I saw that play, the original play, I was like, Oh, of course that was a penalty. I actually didn't realize until some Canadians fans pointed out to me that they were upset about the this the later part because the arm doesn't raise until after that and there's no contact. And I didn't actually realize that at the time. I just assumed I didn't understand why everyone was upset because clearly there had been a high stick. I get that more now, but it was a penalty. So I don't have a problem with that. What I just, I know we just felt we had to show it because people kept on using our play to justify it. So we're like, no, we better show the full replay. But what a great series. And it'll be interesting to see how they handle this because like, I don't mind the Gensel penalty. I think goalies have, you know, if you've ever heard me talk about things like Sam Bennett on Stollers last year, I think goalies have to be protected. You cannot afford entries to goalies. And if they're going to go the extra mile to protect goalies, I'm good with that. But I know that both Lightning fans and Canadians fans were furious about some of the calls. All I'd say is that I just think the embellishment is making it borderline impossible on these referees. Yeah. And I think you could feel it again on Sunday here that both sides were having difficulties finding where the standard and the line was. You saw John Cooper teetering towards kind of losing control a little bit, particularly in the second period over some things that either were called or were not called. But ultimately it was the lightning that prevailed here. One of the plays that helped change things in Tampa's favor here in game number four was that Max Crozier hit on your eyes, Slavkovsky. Maybe not quite as heavy as Clevenon and Nikitian, but boy, it was absolutely in the same category. It was good to see Slavkovsky came back to start the third and finish the game because that was heavy, heavy right in the middle of the ice. Actually Dan Hynote, one of the assistant coaches with the Lightning, told a great story to Gabby Shirley of the Lightning show. Yes, I saw that. You saw the clip? Yeah. Yes, great. You should mention it. So for those who didn't catch it, he was saying so they had an optional practice the day before. And I guess Crozier clearly had a feeling then that he may be playing here on Sunday. And this is a guy that had missed time for about two months. I think he had core muscle surgery done. He was gone for a long while. He played that last game of the year, the regular season, when there was really not much to play for. So he's telling Hynote on the ice going, I need to get hit. I need to feel getting hit again. You know, just to be ready to go back in. And so he calls over Connor Geeky, who is by no means a small guy. That's a big body out there. And he goes, take a run at Crozier. They just ran him down the boards like the old gauntlet drill. You do a minor hockey. And Geeky took a couple of runs out of him and I guess got to the point where he was like, all right, glad I got to feel this again. And physically, clearly he was, he was ready to go here on Sunday. Richter scale. You know what, Kyle? I asked, I saw a clip of that from the Lightning broadcast and I asked if we had any of it from the pregame and it was unfortunately, I didn't see it till the third period. So with no overtime, we never really got a chance to look. So we'll watch it for game five because I'm assuming Crozier is still going to play. I mean, that hit was clean on Slavkovsky. I'm glad Slavkovsky came back to play. I want to see players play. And also I think that just changes, I think it just changes the series tremendously if he can't. And then I don't like to see that, but what a great, what a great series of hockey that is. Hegel has been phenomenal, like just incredible. And you know, I'll say this, I thought Suzuki played his best game of the series and that's a good omen for Montreal. Just great, great hockey and I hope we get three more games of it. Although I'm sure the Canadians and Lightning fans will say, please only give us two. We can't take three. Last thing I'll say on this for Montreal, youngest playoff roster and for all the talk of not having the same playoff pedigree as Tampa, as you mentioned off the hop, nothing about these first four games says that they're not at Tampa's level. I think the big thing going forward over either the next two or three games, can they handle those swing moments in a game better than their opponent? And that's going to go a long way to see who ends up in the second round and who will end up meeting the winner of the Buffalo Sabres and the Boston Bruins. It is the Sabres now with a three to one series lead. They take both games at TD Garden, maybe one of the best first periods all season in the eyes of Lindy Ruff. First game of the series, they didn't wade into things to the Sabres and it's kind of full circle ish, I think for Buffalo LA, because you remember you go back to the second game of their season, they played in Boston, they lost three-one. I remember Ruff ripped his team after that game and it was like, oh man, is it disaster already again in Buffalo and back in that building? Their most thorough victory of the series, they've got a stranglehold up three to one. I could not believe Boston in this one. First of all, both Boston and Buffalo fans who listen to the podcast have really disagreed with my analysis of it so far. And I have said that it's not a series I've been able to watch a lot because it's usually on against the game I'm working. This was the first one, Kyle, I really had a chance to watch that was not against anything. So Sabres fans, you're welcome. Bruins fans, I'm sorry. Because obviously I'm good luck for Sabres fans, awful luck for Bruins fans. I think that the thing that really blew me away, first of all, the guy I'm happiest for, Peyton Krebs. You know, Peyton Krebs has taken a lot of heat from Sabres fans. It's hard to be traded in a deal like that and be the main piece coming back. You're always compared to that player who goes, even though it's not fair. And he's had a great start to the playoffs for them. He's been excellent, really happy for Krebs. But secondly, the thing that shocked me was all four of those goals in the first period, Kyle. Boston handed it right to them. They made bad plays on every single one of them. And you watched Sturm at the end of the game and he was absolutely shell shocked. He didn't know what to say. He was at a loss. And McEvoy's quote about to a man, we all have to be embarrassed. You know, he's right because almost all, like all of those goals were self-inflicted to some degree. Like sometimes a guy makes a great play or sometimes you get beaten on the rush and that happens. But they were all breakdowns and giveaways. And in the playoffs, you can't do that. But you know, game five in Buffalo is going to be insane. A chance to win a playoff series. I can't imagine what that crowd is going to be like. The Bruins made all the giveaways and the savers to their credit. You know, that's what good teams do. You're up two, one in a series and you get a chance to do a str- to give a stranglehold. And you do it. And they took every single one of the Bruins mistakes and they put it in the net. And I really do believe that that's what true Stanley Cup contenders do. They make you pay for your mistakes and they don't let off the gas. And Buffalo, like watching Buffalo win that game like that, that's when you look at a team and say, boy, that team has what it takes. Like that, that's a winner because they step on your throat and they don't let go. Swamin, you all saw that shot of him going off the ice in the third period after he got the hook and the TV timeout. He of course was not the problem for Boston in this one, but some words for the bench and trying to get them in the right headspace again, heading into game five. That was an interesting thing to see. Sturm did make a couple of lineup changes. Clearly, it did not have the effect. I mean, the problems for the Bruins were much bigger than just that. Krebs, you mentioned great story. Both Byrams having a great, great series as well. He's not the only Savers defense. You can say that about, but a second straight multi-point game for him. Buffalo, and it felt like loud in there for in terms of the amount of Savers fans that were in the garden on Sunday. It's just a lot of momentum behind not only finally ending the streak, but not just one and done here. The Savers have plans of doing something much deeper. They're good enough to do it. The Swamin thing, I have to admit, I'm a little bit mixed about it, just in the sense that I've always kind of been of the belief that team keeps their problems in-house as much as you possibly can. But I also understand the competitive nature of that and how angry he got. So I mean, and also, as I say, we always say hockey players are boring. We can't rip them when they speak their truth. Harry Price did the same, perhaps fans will remember, Michel Terian pulled him in a home game a number of years ago and gave him the look coming off the ice. It happens. They are competitors. They sure are. Game five in Buffalo on Tuesday night. All right. The fourth of the four here on Sunday, Elliott. We've got our second sweep and it will be only two sweeps here in the first round. Colorado Avalanche put the LA Kings to bed and with that, the incredible career of Anze Copetar comes to an end. It's a wonderful scene that he got a nice ovation from the home crowd and was able to salute them one more time. I can only imagine the feelings and mixed emotions, not only for him, but of course his teammates and your season just come to an end and now you're kind of seeing your captain and leader off one final time. What did you think of the scene there in Los Angeles on Sunday, Elliott, and Colorado doing what I think was not a shock if you were to predict going in, putting away LA and Forrest Rait. If anybody out there listened to our preview of this series, I really felt it was an awful matchup for the Kings. Honestly, Kyle, they probably played as well as they could. They didn't get blown out in any game until the end of game four. It was funny. DJ Smith was asked in the pregame on Sunday about McKinnon and having not scored yet and he kind of said, I hope this isn't a bad omen. He went out and scored twice. They did a lot of things as best as they probably could. They defended well at five on five. They didn't let their top players run wild, but every game, Colorado was just a little bit better, as you would expect, because they were the wire-to-wire presence trophy winners and they're a better team than LA. This was, I think, what a lot of us expected. The Avalanche are going to get, I think it was Mike Russo pointed out that if wild stars go seven, they could have over a week off. I don't think teams like that, but that's what we're looking at here. That series shows no sign of going, it's like Tampa Montreal. That series is probably going seven. You know, Colorado was just too good for them. It's that simple. It's going to be a really interesting offseason in LA. Copetar gone a huge void in their organization. Obviously, Gratsky played for the king, so you could say he's the greatest king ever, but if you really think about a guy from beginning to end who was a king, Copetar goes down as the best king ever. It's going to leave an enormous hole in their organization to fill it. You heard DJ Smith talk after the game. You can tell he wants that job badly. When you take a look at interim coaches, like there were some guys who got hired really late in the year this year. Peter DeBore, of course, was one. That's a little different. Smith took over with six weeks to go in the season, and I thought he did a pretty good job there. I thought the team played as well as it could with him. You know, I thought Byfield showed some improvement with him, and you could tell how much he wants to be the head coach of the kings. They defended well five on five, and like I said, the big thing for them is Byfield. In a lot of ways, they need him to become the standard bearer of the franchise. I think that whatever you do, one of the most important decisions you have to make in running the kings now and making this coaching decision is, can you show that you can grow Byfield, that he can go to the next level with you? At the very least, Smith has made them think. Now they're going to have to go out and they're going to have to find another center. It's going to be tough because there's a lot of teams that are going to be out there looking for centers. I think who isn't? I think Winnipeg is going to look hard for a center. Calgary's a team that always talks about looking for a center. I'm just going over my list now. There's a billion teams out there looking for centers. I think the one thing that's going to be interesting is that if the kings are going to want to make a big trade to get an impact player, Kyle, who do you think they're going to be asking for? Byfield? Yes. It defeats the purpose. You want a center to play with Byfield. One-two punch. You don't want to have to trade Byfield because then you're no better off than you were before. It's going to be fascinating because they don't have a lot to deal. I think they want to big, big players. The other thing we're going to learn is that there's a lot of teams talking about and hoping to make big moves this summer. Not everybody's going to be able to do it. Some of these teams and some of their fans are going to be disappointed. I think the kings are one of these teams that really want to swing big. It's LA. That's what they want to do. Not everybody's going to be able to pull this off. The really tough thing is that everyone's where people are going to want from the kings, they're going to want Byfield, who's the player they should least think about trading. I'll say this too. I think they're going to need to become faster on the blue line. You could see that, like I said, they did the best possible job that they could to contain Colorado. I think they were disciplined in this structure. They played strong, but they just weren't quick enough on the blue line. This is a fast league now. You're watching Anaheim. You're watching San Jose in their division. You're watching all these teams now that are good. They're fast. They're going to move fast, and they're going to have to improve their speed. Byfield too, I think of all the years he's been with the kings, and you're watching the development next season for me, is going to be the most intriguing and possibly revealing one because now there's nobody ahead of him on the depth chart. He's going to have all the opportunity to play in all the situations that they believe he can that he wants to be in and wants to show he belongs in. I think we're going to get as good of a sense as we ever have with Byfield as an NHL-er of where he can take things in terms of his abilities and potential as the go-to guy there in LA because you're right. It's a big hole there now with Copa Targon. For a few years now, it's been, can he be the next guy to fulfill it? Golden opportunity this coming fall. It'll be an interesting one to watch too. That along with Brent Clark needing a new contract this summer. Oh yeah. Imagine that'll be an interesting conversation there in terms of where they ultimately want to go with that one and how they view the player and all of that. You know, it's interesting because he's a really talented guy and you can just see he wants so much more responsibility. And I want to say this about Clark. I don't think it's always been easy. The organization will tell you they really like Clark. They really believe in Clark and they really think he's got a bright future, which I definitely think is true. But there's been times he's been frustrated and he has shot any negative talk down, at least to this point. He has not allowed it to become an issue. You know, like you've seen it, like reporters there, they ask him, are you happy? And he kind of parries it. He won't let it become a thing. I think he's handled himself extremely well. But you're right. The contracting, that's where it can sometimes go sideways. So we'll see where this one goes. So we head towards a new era in Los Angeles. We wish Anze Copetar all the best in his retirement. And as he said, you know, the kids now get dad on a lot more regular basis. So more time seeing him at that Toyota Performance Center in shorts and flip flops sitting on the bench, watching his kids play Elliott, then in the weight room and training room and on the ice himself, as we did when we were down in LA a couple of years ago. And for Colorado, they took care of their business. And now they await a heavyweight clash. Well, a current one is still ongoing between Minnesota and Dallas, which we'll get to a little bit later in the pod. OK, time now for the final thought presented by the Toyota BZ. So just some other news around the league that you wanted to shed some light and some updates on. And it's a lot of the stuff that we've been following over the last few weeks. So what have you got for us here? We'll make it quick. And it's because it's late at night and you've got an early flight. Just the some of the GM searches, Toronto. I think what we're kind of awaiting here to see how this is all going to work is Matt Sundin's decision. And we'll see where that goes this week. But as you've heard me say, I have wondered if he's contemplating a larger role that has kind of been hinted or reported. And I still believe that's true. And I think everyone's hoping to get an idea this week of where he's going to be. Where he's leaning and what he's considering. And so I think once we know where Sundin falls on this, we'll have a truer, clearer picture of what the Maple Leafs front office is going to look like. In Nashville, I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a potential curveball there that they've been either considering or talking to or looking at someone we haven't seen yet. I'm not expecting anything Monday. Like I said, I heard they'd gotten it down to a short list, but there were some things I heard on the weekend that have led me to believe that the predators may have a curveball in there. I haven't seen yet. Vancouver, I think more interviews. Names we've been reported or have been reported so far, Shane Dohn, Kevin Adams, Ryan Johnson, Ray Whitney, Bill Scott was reported by John Shannon on Sunday. And I've heard five other names. I'm working to confirm some of them have BC connections. I think that's one thing the Canucks have kind of looked at there. Maybe is there anybody and not even necessarily somebody who was a Canuck, but somebody who has BC connections that might have some pride in the region. And so I think those are some of the things, not all of them, but some of them. And I think those are some of the things they're looking at, but I still think they're doing their interviews. All right. So curveball, Nashville, is that just a name that is under serious consideration that we're not aware of yet? What does curveball mean? I think that's what it is. Somebody who's under consideration that we're not aware of yet. Just somebody a little different. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. That was the final thought presented by the Toyota BZ. We'll take our first break. We'll come back with the thought line. And then after that, we'll get to the other four series that one has concluded and three more still ongoing in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs. More 32 thoughts in the podcast after the break. All right. Welcome back. Another edition of the thought line coming your way here, Elliott. So before we get to that, how about this for a chance run in? So I'm walking back from the arena here in Montreal after the morning skate Friday before game three into hockey fan podcast listener Lewis who reminded me of a conversation him and I had inside the building prior to Canada, US four nations in Montreal just over a year ago. And he goes, I said to you that night, I hope this is the loudest this building will ever be. And arguably it was up there that night. Oh yeah. So I just happened to, he was in town going to the game Friday. I just happened to run into him on the street and he goes, hopefully tonight, it is even louder than that four nations game. I'm not sure it'll get there, but hopefully it was. Anyway, and it was rocking on Friday and again on Sunday night. But it was nice to see a recurring podcast listener for another sequel. A sequel. Yeah. Yeah. Which one was louder? Which one was louder? Well, it was four nations or the game. Four nations was like a once in a lifetime. Yes. Perfect storm of things coming together. But I love it. So Caden Gully said his first playoff game last year there, he goes, get in the room afterwards. My ears are popping. He's like, I've never felt that before. And this is a guy that loves going to concerts, some music festivals. He likes listening to things loud. And he goes, I've never felt that before. Awesome. Anything to clear the deck with you? I didn't have a lot of time to go through it, but there was one. We had a couple of good Insta DMs, Kyle. And one of them in particular was somebody who sent us a video of Rocky's announcers sharing, Mikey Ziegler is his name, Rocky's announcers sharing a one pound 23 inch hotdog known as the Glyzilla and said, your move gentlemen. I've just seen this now. He also sent us a video of a guy trying to dummy the five pound ice cream in Tampa. Mikey Ziegler did. Before our careers are done, we are taking down that ice cream. He just, I guess he wants to see us eat. He wants to make sure we're... What did Don call it, lady in the tramp? That's exactly what it is. Yes. Yeah, the Glyzilla absolutely is that 23 inch hotdog. There was another person, Reese Musgrove, I think it is. He said, could you please bring this up on the next pod of how corny this post is. And it was your Insta post of the arena in Montreal where you wrote two minutes for looking so good. Yeah, standing in the penalty box. Now those of a, well before both of our times, but there is a great commercial with Maurice Richard back in the day. Oh yes, Grecian formula. Yes. It was before your time, but it was not before mine. I remember that trial. I tried to protect you. You did. It was nice. That's a good teammate, Kyle. It was nice, but I am old enough to remember. It was so easy, remember? Hey, Rocket, two minutes for looking so good. But Reese thought it was corny. Okay, hit me. Hit me with the thought line. All right, just a couple here for you today, Elliott. And we begin with Tyler from Etobicoke. Good day, gentlemen and Elliott. Back in September during the live show in PEI, I feel like five years ago. Oh, seriously? My goodness. Great trip, but it feels like forever ago. Oh, God, geez. You took a question from a friend of mine, Sean, though technically the first interaction came earlier at the hotel gym while Elliott was... I remember Sean. Absolutely. Yes, yep. While Elliott was struggling through what could only be described as a interesting workout routine. Sean was the one with the thumbs up, right? It was like the squat with the thumbs up. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're admiring that one. I gotta say something. I just want to say something for the record here. Sean's routine was much more interesting than mine was, if I remember it correctly. Mine was pretty basic. The hotel we were staying at had a pretty basic hotel gym, so I have like a basic hotel gym workout. His was stranger than mine. I would like to say that for the record. Yeah, I love... You adapt your surroundings. Yes, yes, yes. Basic gym, basic workout. I'm like a chameleon. I just blend in. Yes. Fast forward to this week. Sean and my beer league team found ourselves in the championship game. Despite being sidelined with an injury from the semifinal, Sean still suited up and took his rightful place on the bench. No shifts, all vibes as we pulled off a two to one shootout win. Congratulations. So with the Stanley Cup playoffs now in full swing, it got me thinking about memorable Stanley Cup final moments involving injured star players forced into more of a morale role. Of course, Stephen Stamcoast and his goal in the 2020 final against Dallas, despite only playing a few shifts, immediately comes to mind. I'm curious what other stories you guys can think of. There's one that you and I were both at, I'm sure. Yeah, Char, right? Like you're talking about Xenochar. That's the one I remember where he sat there and when he broke the jaw in St. Louis, and he opened and closed the bench. That was a big one. And then when he was introduced in the starting lineup before the next game, just the huge ovation in Boston for him. Another big one was Sidney Crosby when the Penguins won their first Stanley Cup in 2009. He was injured in the second period in Game 7 at Detroit, and he sat on the bench for the third period and didn't play, but sat there and gave moral support and celebrated when the Penguins hung on and won that game with the great save by Mark Andre Fleury off Nick Lidstrom with seconds remaining. So those are the two that I really remember well. The other one I always remember for that, it wasn't an injury, but I always remember when New Jersey won its first Stanley Cup over to Troyette, how Mike Paluso couldn't play at the end of the game because he was so emotional and crying so hard that he just couldn't take a shift. And I think anybody who saw that has always remembered how Paluso, how emotional he was as the Devils were closing out that series. And he played a big role on that New Jersey team with the crash line. One I think of, it wasn't Stanley Cup final, but the playoffs a few years ago, that Game 7 against Toronto Tampa in Toronto. Remember Braden Pointe who was having a great series, he scored the overtime winner in Game 6 to force the seventh game. Remember he got hurt, I think it was fairly early in the first period. I think he tried to play maybe one more shift, he knew he couldn't go. If I remember correctly, he stayed on the bench through the rest of that one. And Tampa of course wins Game 7 and goes back to the Stanley Cup final. I also think too, like with Pointe, we've brought him up here. If he had not missed time with injury, I think particularly their first cup run in 2020, I think one of those two years, he was earmarked for a consmythe trophy, like he was that good during those back-to-back cups. That was one that came to mind for me of recent memory. Good memory. I wouldn't have remembered that one. But all good. Good question. Sean, great teammate, bud. Weird Jim Workout, but great teammate. Austin from Cleveland, one more here. Hey guys, short-time listener here, been tuning in since the 32 Thought Stays. Nice. Welcome, Austin. With Marco Sturm being a former Bruin and now stepping in as the Bs bench boss, it got me thinking, how often has a former player come back and coach the same team they played for to a Stanley Cup? Well, the guy who held the record for most cups for a long time before Scotty Bowman broke it was Toe Blake, who won eight Stanley Cups as the coach of the Montreal Canadiens and also played for them and was an extremely successful player, too. So right off the top, he is the absolute first guy that I think of because he was the record holder for most Stanley Cups as a coach for a very long time. So that's number one. That's the first thing that jumps into my head. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head if anyone else did it. I thought you were going to ask how many players coach teams that they played for and I was jumping right to the Bruins because the Bruins have a long history of coaches who played for them. Steve Casper, Mike Milbury, Terry O'Reilly, Jerry Cheever's, like they had a long list of guys who coached their team, who played for them. But off the top of my head, who else am I missing if anyone, Kyle, that coached a team that they played for? Like Darryl Sutter won Stanley Cup for the Kings, but he never played for them, correct? Joel Quinville never played for the Blackhawks. I'm trying to remember, am I missing anyone here? There are actually seven others from Toe Blake that meet this criteria. Hold on. Okay, all right. Let me think here. It's been a while. Oh really? So it's nobody recent? No. Did Glenn Sather ever play for the Oilers? No. Okay. So that's, okay. So I discounted Sather. I didn't think he ever played there. Okay. Let me think about this here. I will just say it's funny you mentioned the Bruins of all the ex-players that coached there because two answers here, one Stanley Cups with Boston as coach. Ew. Okay. So let's go back. Okay. I'm just doing this in my head. I'm going back through every winner. No, Terry Crisp never played for the Flames. Al Arbor never played for the Islanders. Did Al McNeil play for the Canadians? Yes, he did. Okay. That's one. We're going back into situations here. I can't, that is the second most recent example. That's the second most recent? Yes. Well, okay. So Joe Primo for the Maple Leafs. Correct. Happ Day for the Maple Leafs. Yes. Yeah. Before that, I can't remember who all the coaches were. So we'll get Joe Primo and we'll get Happ Day. And then I'm trying to remember who's after Al McNeil, not Scotty Bowman, not Fred Shiro, not Arbor. Okay. I'm checking something here because I can't remember who the Bruins coach was in 1972. So I'm looking up. I know it wasn't Harry Sinner and I know that wasn't Don Cherry. Oh, Tom Johnson, he's one. Yes. He played for the Bruins. Other than that, I can give you three. I can't get the rest of them. Yeah. I can't remember who the coaches were back then. That's all right. So yeah, you got Tom Johnson, Al McNeil, Joe Primo, Happ Day, Toblake, Frank Boucher with the Rangers. I never would have gotten that. And when the Bruins won in 1941, Cooney Weiland, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, was the coach of Boston then. He played over 300 games with the Bruins. And the other one, which is, I would imagine a tricky one, Lester Patrick won two Stanley Cups. Oh yeah, because you played like the one game for the Rangers or something. He played one regular season game, one playoff game for the Rangers. And then won two Stanley Cups as coach. Okay, so I am looking this up because if I remember correctly, he played the one game in Goal because his goalies got hurt. Yes. Yes. So that's it. It's in the final. Lawrence Shabbat, eye injury, and he went in, he played at age 45. That's a pretty famous story. When you mentioned it, I kind of remembered it. I had to look up the exact details, but he only went in as an emergency because the number one goalie got hurt. Wow. Wow. Wow. And if I remember the story correctly, they, at that point in time, they actually had to ask the other team for permission to use a different goalie. And the other team refused to let them use certain guys until they had no choice but to put in for Patrick. And I guess, yeah, the one regular season game would have been the same instance too, because he was the head coach simultaneously the previous year and got one game. Great question. Really good. Great question. And, you know, I just want you to know, Kyle, I wasn't, even though I was old enough to remember the Maurice Richard commercial, I'm not old enough to remember this occurring. As I said, try to protect you. Welcome aboard Austin. Thanks for listening. Yes. Okay. That'll do it for another edition of the thought line. 1833-311-3232 is the phone number to leave a voicemail or you can email us at 32thoughtsatsportsnet.ca. We'll take one final break back with more 32 thoughts the podcast after this. All right. So let's go through the series that we're not in action on Sunday. We'll begin with the Ottawa Senators, Elliott, the first team knocked out of the 2026 Stanley Cup playoffs. Congratulations to the Hurricanes being the first team to punch their ticket to round number two. Elliott, the Sen's were largely viewed with how they finished the regular season as a team that you may not want to face in the first round. And not only did they not win a game against the Hurricanes, they did not hold a lead for a second over the course of the four games. Naturally, the questions began around what the future looks like, how does Steve Sayos address things moving forward? And there's the Brady Kitchuk question also, where do you want to start with the Ottawa Senators, a playoff run that ended almost as soon as it began? Kyle, there's one thing that you did not address in your introduction to the Senators. Okay. Where are your Senators pajamas today? I left them home. Maybe that's why I went so poorly. I didn't bring them with me. Senators fans, Ottawa fans, there's your man to blame. It's really unbelievable, Kyle. Think about this. All year long, what did we say about Ottawa? They just need to get some goaltending. Lienus Allmark had a 932 save percentage and a 2.03 goals against average, and they got swept and never led in the series. If you would have told me, if you would have come back from the future and told me that that would have happened, there's no chance anyone would have believed you. No chance. The other thing too, I was looking at some of the numbers. Carter Yakimchuk, who played one game, was tied for second in Senators playoff scoring. Two points. What happened in this series is unbelievable. It really is. I don't think anybody surprised Carolina won, but the way it went and how it all went down and Allmark playing great and the lack of offense and also the craziness of the last two games, it was just an insane series. The number one thing, I'm going to give free advice. Normally, I charge about $800 an hour for advice, Kyle, but I'm going to give some free advice. The first client. Yes. The Senators need to make no decisions, no decisions for a week or two. It is white hot around that organization right now. They're angry. They're frustrated. They're disappointed. They're furious. They're all the bad emotions rolled into one right now. There's no sugarcoating it. It's an awful defeat. It is. They had terrible injuries. Everything about it sucked. They had such high hopes. They really thought they were going to be better. They thought last year, they didn't start the playoffs on time and they figured it would be different this year. They got the goal tending and still they went nowhere. But what they have to do is take a deep breath because it's painful and it hurts. I have said this many times and I'll say it again. The way the NHL playoffs are set up, I never worry about when you lose. I always worry about who you lose to. They got swept by a playoff tested team, a team that seemingly wins two rounds every year. A team that is always in there, won the Eastern Conference, won their division comfortably, a disciplined, structured team that understands the assignment and did what it does. Now, I would also say, everyone's talking up Stan Coven and he was great. No question about it. People are talking Taylor Hall. He was excellent. No question about it. But Freddie Anderson, it's a reminder. You can always rewrite your narrative in the playoffs. He had the worst numbers of his career in the regular season and he beat them four in a row in the playoffs. Like you heard what All-Mark Stats were. He beat that four straight times. He gave up an awful goal in game two, but he did what every elite goalie has to do. He shrugged it off. I did this wrong. I'll fix it. He did and never was out of control. He was the best player in the series. So, when I look at this, if I'm the Ottawa Sanders, you can sit there and say, internally, we got swept in the first round. Yes, but you know what? We lost to a machine. And that is the standard that we are going to need to aspire to. That is the team that we have to beat. And that's the way I would look at it. I would say, you don't have to do major surgery and we'll get to something here in a second. You don't have to do major surgery. You don't have to say, because this is what happens for a week, you're going to hate everything and everyone. You're going to be like, this guy's bad, that guy's bad. This is what happened here. This is what happened there. You still have a very good core. You still have a lot of really good players. Like I said, there's one circumstance we'll get to here in a second, which could force you to make some hard decisions, but you don't need to sit there and say, we need major renovations. Like, Kyle, do you know when Rod Brindamore says it's not a sweep like a couple of years ago when they lost the floor? 233. This was not a sweep and everybody made fun of Brindamore for it. This is where I understand what Brindamore was saying there. Yes, it's a sweep. And if you're on the losing end of it, and you want to make fun of the other team's fans, you don't care about any of this, how close it was. And this was a sweep and Carolina earned it. No question here. But this is where I get what Brindamore is talking about. You can look at it and say, regardless of the result, there's a lot of things we've got here that we can build on. There's a lot of things we got here that are good. Don't overreact. Don't do something stupid because you're emotional right now. There always has to be one person in the organization who says, guys, this sucks, but we're not doing anything dumb. Go on vacation. Players will do their exit meetings here on Monday. And of course, we'll do one final bit of media and the questions will be flying fast and furious surely there. And I know over the course of the four games, by and large, it always felt Ottawa was a shot away. Ottawa was a shot away. I think if you looked under the hood a little further, I'm not sure it was as close as some may have made it out to be. But what a lesson to your point, Elliott, of going up against a team like Carolina. And you mentioned that about Anderson. It's easy to forget too. He was one, statistically, one of the best goalies last year through two rounds in the playoffs. And then they run into the juggernaut Florida Panthers and things change from there. But he has put out some very, very good performances in the playoffs with the Hurricanes despite some shoddy at times, regular season numbers. Okay, you want to get to Kachuk here? Yeah. So this is obviously the big one. And in the interview we did with him, he made it very clear. I'm not the one saying this stuff. It's other people speculating. It's other people's conjecture. That's all fair. A lot of that is true. I think now we probably find out where do things really stand. You know, where are we going here? And obviously, it's a huge decision because if there is any change to the status quo, it is a major turning point in the future of the franchise. So I'm not going to guess. I'm going to wait and hear what he has to say or what the team relays in terms of what they know from him. So no more he said, she said, let's get to the facts. So you talk about one situation that could drastically change things. That is one there. And also at some point, there's likely after July 1st, a conversation to be had with Drake Batherson. Another career year for him. He's been at very good value with just under $5 million for a while. He's extension eligible this summer. He's not going to be at that number beyond next season. So what does that conversation look like too? Zube too. Zube. Very good point. Absolutely. Who is as important a guy on their back end, maybe not at Sanderson level, but sends fans know the value and importance of having him there. There's some business to be done or at least some hard conversations to be had and it extends beyond just their captain. And Claude Giroux. I mean, Claude Giroux is an obvious one too. And he's still as competitive as ever and he can still play. And you can tell that those players all really respect him. He is very much a big part of the attitude of that group. You know, I'll say this, one player I'm also curious about, Kyle, is Zetterland. I really like the Zetterland trade. I really like the player. It's been a difficult fit for him. You know, I would just say that in the first round, like I said, I really liked the player. He just wasn't as impactful as I think he can be. And I'm just wondering, do they look at it and say, we have to do a better job of funding a spot for him or or what? Because it just, you know, like, look, like Chak had no points. And as the captain, you take the heat. That's the, that's the reality. That's life in the big city. Stutzler had one point. I thought he competed like crazy. He couldn't score. You know, but I mean, like, this is a results oriented business. You're, you're that guy, you take the heat. That's life in the big city. Zetterland isn't as front line as those guys are. But again, I really liked the player. It just didn't work. It wasn't effective. So how are you going to deal with that situation? All right. Before we move on, by the way, Carolina Hurricanes social admin, were they ever out for blood after this series were done? One hit after another, they were relentless, kind of like how game four was at times when it really got dragged into the mud. That Tyler Cleven hit on Nikitian. Now we hear he's in concussion protocol. He went back with the team. We wish him all the best. That was heavy. And then everything beyond that, man, it went beyond just trying to settle some scores. There was some pretty hardened intent when you see some of the stuff. We know Ridley Greg is going to have a hearing and rightfully so for what he did. There's a lot to get to beyond just the score itself in game four Saturday. So I got to tell you, when Nikitian got hit, it reminded me a lot of when Tavares got hurt in the bubble against the Canadians. Just the player at Tavares trying to get up. I remember hearing at the time, that's what someone in that position does. You try to get to your feet to show you're okay. We remember how scary that was. And I was happy to hear that Nikitian was celebrating with his teammates after the game and he was there to enjoy it. Because in the moment, you were really concerned about him. First of all, Kyle, did you think that was a penalty? I could have been convinced it was late, but the fact that they reviewed it and didn't even say, all right, two minutes for a charge spoke volumes to me about how the officials saw it. I agree. They reviewed it and they had all the looks at it. And look, people can decide how they feel about it. It's totally fine. But if you want to change that play, you are going to change how hockey is played. Now, some people might say, okay, because I don't want to see that outcome. But you do realize that the same people who say that, if in the playoffs, if someone peels off that kind of hit, they'll be highlighted and being called like a chicken, right? Because Nikitian does the pucks right there. And even though he doesn't really have possession of it, he tries to play it. So under the way that we currently play the game, he's eligible to be hit. If people want to change it, then ultimately, we can change it. That is going to fundamentally adjust the way hockey is played, particularly at this time of year. People can decide how they feel about that. BX is saying it was a two minute interference penalty. I was kind of laughing because I was like, you would have delivered that same hit too. That's exactly the same thing that you would have done. And he didn't deny it. And he didn't deny it. So people can decide what kind of game they like or they want and go ahead. So I didn't think it was a penalty, particularly since they reviewed it. And he doesn't get the head. The end of this series turned really nasty, really brutal. I like good, hard hockey. I didn't like the sucker punch. I thought that was terrible. Everybody's had their own opinion about that. He's going to have the hearing, as you said. A couple of things about this. Ottawa was furious about the Sanderson play. I understand why. When I saw that, I was like, that is not going to be a suspension. You look at the hits that lead to suspension, they're not that. I realized too, when I watched the slow-mo, Sanderson also gets hit a second time when his helmet's off. And I mean, it's bad because two shots to the head like that. Sanderson takes a second shot after the helmet goes off. And it's completely unintentional. But one of the things we've learned about concussions is if you have head contact two times so quickly, it can be damaging. So I felt a concern for him when I saw that. Because you don't have any chance, like with Hall, you can at least see it coming and kind of try to defend yourself. The other one is the head at least see it coming and kind of try to defend yourself. The other one, you can't. Like you're, it happens instantaneously and you're spinning. But when you take a look at the way the NHL suspends for hits, I knew that wasn't going to be a suspension. Although I can understand why the senators were angry that the Kachak one got reviewed and that one didn't. I understand that completely. You know, the Ridley Greg thing, I have to tell you, Kyle, every time I talk about this, I forget the, there are some officials active and retired who get really upset at me whenever I suggest that the situation room should have more control over the game. It's a real sensitive sore spot. And for those of you who are not familiar with what I'm talking about, I've heard in the past, there's been discussions in situa- and like I do not blame the on ice officials in that situation. It's chaos. There's multiple scrums. They're trying to control the players at the benches. Like I had some people saying to me that the Laurier should be suspended. Kachak should be suspended because they left the bench to get involved in altercations. I mean, it was craziness there. It was out there. I don't blame them for missing that. There was a lot going on. So one of the things that has been discussed before is if there's an incident like that in a scrum, should the situation room have the right to call down the penalty box and say the officials should add this call or make this call that they didn't see, that will either make things more fair or calm things down. And the on ice officials, they hate that. They don't like it. It bothers them. They feel that they've already lost enough say for what happens on the ice through video review. Like ultimately the on ice officials are supposed to have the final say on is it a major or a minor and they have input on the offside or the goaltender interference, but the final call is made from the situation room. But so the officials are very sensitive to losing control about what is happening on the ice. And I heard it from some people after I suggested that. They were very upset about it, but I just look at that situation and especially what happened after was Sean Walker and Widdly Greg and Walker who got cut there, he was out for his own pound of flesh, which as you saw Kelly Rudy had no problem with. You know, I mean, if that penalty is called and he's he's he's given something or a game misconduct or a major or whatever, does everything calm down. And so like ultimately my only goal, because everybody accuses me of having an agenda whenever I say stuff like that, my only goal is to make it the best possible outcome to try to get as close to right as we can get it. But people are really sensitive to that. And but I look at that situation where the officials on the ice had no chance to see that. And my overall point is, is it really a bad thing if they can buzz down and say, go to the monitor and look at what happened and you guys make the call. So we had a listener right into the thought line after you had that intermission segment on Saturday. And they were wondering about the idea of having like a third referee watching virtually. So someone that's part of the group male or female is is a referee, not from the situation room, watching virtually have access to all the different video inputs and replays. And in certain situations, like on a major or something where an injury occurs, if something was missed on the ice, being able to call down and say, hey, guys, maybe want to take a second look at this. And you'll remember interviewing Rod Brindlemore a couple years ago, coincidentally, coach in this game, and his thought of having one official on the ice in the game, the other in the penalty box or by the timekeepers table with the opportunity to look things over when review is necessary, because you take one less body on the ice, the game is fast enough, as is, to be out of the way. And you've got somebody there to confirm what you did or did not see. Yeah, it's an interesting idea. And maybe that's a way that can make the on ice officials a little more comfortable with the idea, because it's one of them. I'm open to any suggestions. Mike, I think that's a good solution. I'm open to it. Like, I'm open to the idea. If that makes the on ice officials happier, I'm open to it. I just think you can point to that situation in general, and say, how much does that game calm down if that call is made right there, right there? I think you could make an argument a lot. And that will carry over to next year too. You know, it was interesting. So somebody texted me after the game, a player in the league now, and he said that if that was him at the end of the game, when it was four to two, and it was basically over, he would have asked to go out on the ice and say, let me pay my pennants now. I don't want this hanging over me all summer. And I thought that was interesting. He said, let me just deal with it. And I'll stand up for myself. I'll deal with whatever I have to deal with. But again, I'm open to any idea that allows for that call to be made in the moment. Anything else you want to talk about with Senators Caroline or anything like that? No, but I should just because we did get a couple of questions to the thought line about this too, of while the Ottawa Senators are eliminated, now Ridley Greg's having a hearing. What does this mean if he gets, in fact, a suspension? It takes him over into the regular season next year. And it's a phone hearing, not an in-person, so maximum five games. There we go. All right, to the three other series we haven't gotten to yet, this pod, Elliot. Minnesota Dallas, not unlike, as you mentioned, Montreal Tampa. It has lived up to all of our hopes and dreams through four games. Another overtime thriller there. Tip of the cap to Jesper Volstadt, who made some key, key saves shortly before Matt Boldy scored the overtime winner. That's a guy that looks playoff hardened. I know that's been a bit of a process between Boldy and the Wild. Certainly the early years as he was coming into the league, he has looked fantastic for the Wild. Three goals now in the series and up to five points. We're all squaring at two there. What a series. This one like Tampa, Montreal has to go seven, just has to. It's a heart attack on a plate for Wild and Stars fans, but this one has to go seven games. I do, by the way, Boldy, the U.S. could use him at the World Cup with that excellent free kick he almost scored on in overtime in game number four. That had to be the most blatant kick puck in NHL history. Yes. No need for a huddle there. The, no, definitely not. They got that one. You know, to me, number one, does hints show up at any point in the series? Hard to say, but that's a big one. Like, if you're Dallas and you can get him back, you'd feel even better about yourself. So that's number one, but number two, Dallas got to start scoring at even strength. I mean, they've only got three goals that even strength this series. I don't know that you can win in a world, Kyle, where you get outscored that badly at even strength in the playoffs because eventually your power play dries up. Teams are too good, I think that that's the one thing that really concerns me for Dallas. Is can you score at even strength and make this more difficult for Minnesota in that situation? I mean, you know, the one thing is, the thing about Dallas is, I generally think they're a lot like Carolina. They always go two rounds. You know, the last couple of years, they've run into Vegas, they've run into Edmonton twice. They haven't been able to make that last win to get into the Stanley Cup final, but they always seem to find a way early, even times when it looked like they could be in big trouble. It's the one thing I look at in this series is, I think you have to prove you can climb the mountain. One team has, one team has not. I think the wild are very different, I think Hughes has changed them in a good way, but you've still got to prove you can climb the mountain. That's the last thing. There's almost nothing different between these two teams in this series. Almost nothing. They're evenly matched, just like Tampa Montreal. However, you've got to prove you can climb the mountain. I wrote down the even strength stuff as well, and Ellie, as I believe the wild are outscoring them 11 to three at evens through four games in the series. The reason is because I remember talking to someone with the Oilers after last year about the series where they beat them in five. They really believe that there was ways for them to expose Dallas at five on five. If they could just limit the power play damage. I just went back and looked as a fresher game one that the stars won that year. They had three power play goals that game, and then they had all of two over the remaining four as Edmonton ran away with it. So to your point, when the power play dries up, it can be trouble if that's what you're relying on. Dallas this year, they have eight on the man advantage by far the most in the league, but that three at evens kind of looms large. The irony of all, of course, was Glenn Gullitson was part of that Oilers staff last year and now head coach here in Dallas. So things for them to sort out as it heads back to big D for game number five. Okay, the Vegas Golden Knights in the Utah Mammoth, the first playoff game in Salt Lake City did not disappoint. Amazingly, Elliot, just 12 shots on goal in the entire game for the mammoth, but it was enough to score four. They have a two to one series lead over the Golden Knights. They got goalied in that one. You know, the thing is that if life were fair, Vegas wins game three. But you know what, Kyle, my parents always used to tell me when I was a kid, life's not fair. They always told you that? Yes, way too often I heard that. I would say that's not fair. And my parents would say, you know, it's not fair, Elliot, life. Life's not fair. So here we go. Look, Vamelco was really good. And heart wasn't four goals on eight shots. And you're just not going to win like that. You know, the thing, it's really interesting, like you brought it up, Gunther and what Keller said about him best release in Utah fans have known it, hardcore hockey fans have known it, known it. Now the world has seen it. Like what did Tortorello say? You can't do anything about that. And that's true. But when you have a goal tending performance like that, you're unfortunately, you're going to lose a lot of games. And that's just what's happened to Vegas this year. It's been there Achilles heel all season. Now the thing about the playoffs is it's just one game and you, you can forget it and you can move on and you go on to the next game. And it, if you win the next couple, it doesn't matter what happened in game number three. But if you're Vegas, you've got to be concerned that the one thing that has really hurt you all year has raised its head in the middle of a really tough series. You know, it's, it's interesting like Tortorello has been captain positive, Mr. Positive. They changed around their power play. It looks like a bit. They called up Trevor Connelly and Brandon Bowman and Bowman gave them really good minutes and scored for them during the year. You know, Dora Feeve, who's been a killer, particularly on the power play has been very quiet to start this series. The thing that you have to be really concerned about is that the Keller Schmaltz crowds line had a big game in game three. So you know, they're going to be feeling it a bit like, you know, like I don't think you ever panic, but it's clear that, you know, Vegas, Vegas knows they're in a real battle here. You know, the one thing I really don't like for Utah is that McBain has missed two games in a row and clearly he's been battling something. And I just think he's such an important type of player you need in the playoffs, a big, strong center who is somebody the opponents have to deal with and somebody who can make life difficult, especially with a strong two-way game. I don't like that for Utah that McBain's been out and hopefully he'll be able to come back because they need him. But it's, there's no question that Utah has Vegas thinking a bit here. They're, the way the Vegas lost game three was the way they kind of got in trouble all year. And they're a confident group. They've been there. They understand what it takes to win. And like Edmonton, you count them out at your own peril, but like it's been the season-long nightmare and it's the worst time to rear its ugly head. It's kind of thinking like, you know, between Vegas Alliott and Edmonton, you know, two teams in that division, veteran teams have been at this whole playoff thing for a number of years now consecutively and both at times in their own series have kind of struggled with the pace a bit of their opponents. I know like Utah and Anaheim don't play exactly the same way, but they're both young. They're both fast. And that's really, it's been an advantage at times. Even if you're only getting 12 shots on goal in the game, you know, Utah has done enough to overwhelm the Golden Knights at certain points, should also point out another upper deck homerun move by the organization. You see that before game three on Friday night to change the Vegas jerseys for a free Utah one. And also made sure that those Vegas jerseys that were returned were put to a good cause, donated. So, and I don't know who the reporter was who thought to ask that, but great question because that only adds it. Like it's supposed to be fun and that is fun, but you know, it's not like they did anything negative to those Vegas jerseys. They donated them, which is, you know what, that just adds to how good it was. Fantastic. Okay. One final one here and it's the Battle of Pennsylvania. So no sweep for the Flyers. The Penguins finally look a little bit more like the team that we have seen for most of the season in game number four. Sidney Crosby makes his first real mark on the series offensively. Any part of you surprised that Dan Muse went to Arter Shilovs with the season on the line? No, sometimes you just got to throw a jolt, right? You got to try something different. And especially, you know, I don't know if they see Skinner as a goalie of the future there. He might be somewhere else next year. And Shilovs is probably there, right? Like you're not turning your net over to both AHL goalies. There's a good chance or at least a decent chance that Shilovs could be one of your goalies. So give them the game. I didn't have a big problem with that. I'll tell you this, if there's one thing I'm not looking forward to Monday is the potential Mishkov discourse. Among Flyer fans, Kyle, that's like World War One. You dig a trench on one side and you dig a trench on the other side and nobody gives an inch. You know, the people who support Mishkov, they don't hear it any other way. And the people who are anti-Mishkov, they don't hear it any other way. And, you know, one of the things here is that, you know, Rick Tauket has pushed a lot of the right buttons. A lot of the buttons he pushed late in the year got them in the playoffs, along with some great play obviously by their group. And, you know, they're up three of games to nothing before they lost game four. You know, the one thing I look at, and I understand all the potential pitfalls here, believe me, but I just think that he has earned the right to make these calls because he's made a lot of the right calls. And if, as long as it's like the one thing I always say is it can't be punitive. It has to be with instruction. This is what you need to do better. And I have no doubt it will. It has to be handled properly and done properly. But the way Tauket is coached and the surge the Flyers have had, I think he's earned the right to make the call, even though I know it's going to be crazy discourse day on Flyer Twitter if he is indeed a scratch. And you know what? Other guys are sad. And I just think that sometimes it's your turn and sometimes even being a high pick can't save you. If it's your turn, it's your turn. No points in the series from Mishka through four games. He had just over 11 minutes in game number four. I think that may have been the most ice time you've seen of any of the four here so far in the series against the Penguins. So it all was kind of trending towards this potential reality of being sat out for game number five if it in fact gets there. It won't ease the frustration and the anger that truly has already started, but we'll go to a different level if it in fact is the case here on Monday. Anything else there for each? Are we good? I think we're good. All right. Well, with that, another edition of 32 Thoughts in the Blocks, just two games on the schedule here Monday night. The aforementioned Flyers Penguins, game number five from Pittsburgh, seven o'clock Eastern Time for Pacific for viewers in Canada. You can see that on Sportsnet 360 and then a little after that, 930 Eastern Time, 630 Pacific. It is game number four, Utah Mammoth, and the Vegas Golden Knights. That'll be on Sportsnet and CBC from the Delta Center in Salt Lake City. Two games for your viewing pleasure on Monday night. We will be back on Wednesday. We'll talk to you then.