Should I Want to Have Sex With My Wife?

What are you talking about? I've never, ever, ever heard what you're saying. Hey, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm glad that you are here. Talking about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your kids, your sex and intimacy life, whatever you got going on. That's what this show is. Pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right move. Let's go out to Raleigh, North Carolina and talk to Andrew. What's up, brother? How are you, Andrew? Good, how you doing, John? I'm good, my man. What's going on, dude? Yeah, so, brief history here. I've been married about 10 years now. We have three beautiful kids, another on the way, me and my wife. And, yeah, the entirety of really my whole life, but my married life as well, I've always kind of had these questions in my head that I have a real deep love and attraction to my wife. Nothing held between us. We both desire each other like in every way. We're each other's first, you know. Are you talking about sex? Sex, yeah, exactly. I guess I'd start with that. But yeah, we're each other's first and only sexual partners. And we have always never held anything back desire-wise. But in my... Yeah, right. But in the strict Christian religion, I hold to, I try to hold to the values, which is every time you come together in communion of marriage, that's to create a baby. now me being a guy who's also very much yeah so it's the point is we don't they don't my um my christian values hold or not my christian values my religion that i follow um is roman catholicism so it's very much the approach is if you are going to you know come together in union it you have to be open to the possibility of children every every time you do unless so are you like four for four right yeah well no no not four for four okay but um my question is more how do i personally handle the feeling of guilt when I, it's hard, it's guilt, but it's not really my guilt. It feels more like I should feel guilty that every time we do, I just sometimes want to enjoy my wife. And she sometimes just wants to enjoy me. I don't want to be, you know, too descriptive, but you know, I don't think I have to go into it in detail for you to understand what I mean is sometimes I just love to be intimate with my wife and, you know, just please her and make her feel good. And sometimes every time. Okay. Here's, here's the thing. Um, I've got friends that are, I, I'm not Catholic. Okay. My son goes to a Catholic high school. I've got loads of friends that are Catholic. Right. Um, what you're telling me is something I don't, I don't know. And I've never, ever, ever heard. Right. I do have friends who their religious belief is anti-birth control. Yeah. Well, that, that is a, that is definitely something which is like, knock your lights out. We raz each other. We make fun of each other, but like, I'm not going to like, that is what that is for them right i have never in my whole life ever ever ever and dude the comments will tell me where i'm wrong here i've never heard a secular a christian a mormon a muslim i've never heard any faith tradition say that you're not supposed to enjoy sex with your wife ever right well and No, I wouldn't think that anyone would say that. That's what you're telling me, that you feel guilty that sometimes you don't want to make a baby, and hopefully it's all the time. You just want to have sex and have it be awesome. Yeah, yeah. I want it to be awesome. Okay, stop. Why do you think it's not okay for that to be the case? because the um and this is something that again i i have a lot of mixed feelings about is they um in in a lot of the teachings um you read about the sin of onan onan is like spilling the seed right no i if it's what are you talking about i've never i've literally i've been around faith traditions. I've spoke at bajillions of faith traditions. I've worked at ecumenical faith-based universities with kids. I've never, ever, ever heard what you're saying. That doesn't mean it's not true. No, no, no. I know. So what they go off in teaching about the theology of the body and human sexuality is that every time you come together to have sex as a couple, you must not, um, you must not spill your, your seed as in it must go in the correct place to be able to make a child. If you are to orgasm and it does not, you know, um, come to the possible creation of a child that would, you know, that would be a sin. Okay. So let's do this. Yeah. I can't speak to that. I've never heard that that if you orgasm in the wrong way or in the wrong plate I don't know what to tell you about that right what I can address here is this you are participating in a belief structure or in an organization or a sect of an organization that has given you a script for how you're supposed to do your life and you are coming up against that script and saying, A, I don't believe it. B, it is causing a rift between me enjoying a fun, amazing life with one partner, ride or die. Right. And so at the end of the day, you have a choice to make. Mm-hmm. And it's just that simple. It's that complicated and hard, but it's that simple. Right. And I think that's, you know, I think that's where I'm, I believe that God gave us, you know, man and woman to enjoy each other and to not be in your head worried about all these rules and things. And we do have an amazing love life. Between me and you, I think you're right. Right. And I'm not asking, obviously, anyone's opinions on any religion because I don't think that's a fair thing to ask you. I guess for me that was more of – I feel like there's something wrong if I'm going in my head when this is the person I've committed my life to. I think you're right. I'm always focused on her. As long as your focus is, how can I love her in the best possible way that she has told me she wants to be loved? Right. And vice versa at the same time. And there's navigation there. There is, for lack of better words, a bad word to use here, but there's compromise there. There's feelings and emotions and all that stuff is there. Yeah. But I think you are 1,000% right. Well, I think. Yeah, that was – I cannot help you in any shape, form, or fashion with a belief structure, a – what your – the way the particular religion you ascribed to has read these ancient texts and said this is what this means in the 21st century. I can't help you with that. Right. That's a choice between you and your wife and your faith tradition. Right. But yeah, and that's a good point that it's, you know, I think that it's one of those things that some you have a million different people and they all have a different opinion on it, you know, and it's like, oh, this was taught here. this was taught here and you know it at the end of the day I do really feel when ever since even before we got married although no one would suggest that you you uh you know before marriage it's best to probably not have sex but even though we had uh been together before it I had chosen this is the person I'm gonna love forever you know we've been together 15 years almost and And I just completely loved her, and it always felt like – for a lack of a better term, it did feel holy. Although it's romantic, and it's awesome, and it's amazing. It's the person I love forever. Yeah, but again, hold on. You're creating a bunch of narratives around things. Okay? And so let's take sex off the table. Let's take religion off the table. Those are two really electric topics, okay? Mm-hmm. If you purchase a workout program and you say, I am going to do this workout program, and then you get into it and you're like, well, I don't really want to do this part of it. I want to do this part of it. You, as an autonomous being, are allowed to do that. But you can't walk around saying, I do this workout, because you don't. Right. And if every time you do that workout, but you do something different, you feel guilty and you hate yourself for it and you beat yourself up for it. And it doesn't ring true to you. Let's say you bought one of those crazy Looney Tune influencer workout programs, not one like from my buddies at Mind Pump. That's like legit and good or my buddy Jordan Sight, like or Lane Norton, like a real science backed program by people who have trained people for years. Right. Let's say that's not what you got. You got one of these dorky influencer like, yeah, like whatever, right? Let's say you bought one of those. And when you do the workout, it hurts. You feel terrible. It injures you. Then I would suggest stop doing that thing. That doesn't make sense. Right. Now, if you do a mind pump workout, you do Jordan's workout, you do Lane's workout, you do like knees over toes workout. All those are great programs. If you do those, they're going to be really hard, and there's going to be days you don't want to do it. But you're a part of this community. You're part of this system for a long-term good, right? So I'm not saying you'd stop doing things just because it's hard or it's uncomfortable or you don't like it or it doesn't, quote-unquote, feel good in the moment. Yeah. Right? And nobody who follows a faith tradition or a religion, it doesn't ever feel good all the time, period. Right. Right. Even if you're a Christian, Jesus was in the garden before he died and said, hey, is there no way we can do this? He was crying, sobbing in front of his father. Right. And so it's not always going to feel good. And that's part of life. That's part of being a part of a tribe. Exactly. But if you're walking away injured, you're walking away hurt. You're walking away knowing this is doing more damage to me. then A, I would suggest you back up and stop doing that thing, or at least be really thoughtful about it. And B, you can't walk around and tell everybody that's what I do. Because you're not doing that anymore. Exactly. Yeah, and I think that's probably where the conflict is, is that I need to make sure, is this something that I you know like to a believe in and is this also something that is a net good for me and my family right and and you know I think me and my wife do we do talk about everything we we talk about this exact thing as well because um we we ultimately trust each other and everything and um I do want to be a good father and a good you know spiritual head of the house the house And that also goes with in my life with my wife opening up everything every door with her not keeping any door closed All that's good, but you're talking in really lofty, distancy language. And until you can let this center in the middle of your chest, I think you're going to struggle with the connection to the problem, to the issue, to your wife, to your faith Yeah Right? Yeah Because what you're running up against is I consider part of my identity as a member of a particular religion And at this point, I don't believe what this religion has taught me and is teaching me, and I don't believe it's a net good for me and my family, much less anyone else in that community Yeah And now I have some really hard decisions to make that I want you to start at the identity level Do I still believe in God? Yes or no Do I still believe in the daily practice of prayer and meditation? Do I believe in taking a knee to something bigger than me? Do I believe that I need to be part of a community that worships in somewhat the same way? Yes. But can I continue to go to this particular building with this particular set of leaders who have taught me this particular thing that is a net negative? I've never, honestly, again, I've got to circle back. I've never heard of what you're saying. It doesn't mean I'm right. It just means I've been around all different types of faith for decades and decades and decades, and I've never heard this one. It doesn't mean anything other than I've never heard this. but I want you to not use like big lofty distancy language as though you're trying to sound smart and sound elevated and like I want you to be honest about where this is going to impact you it's going to impact you in your spirit right in the middle of your chest it's going to change the question it's going to change the answer of who am I and when you change who am I that impacts the actions you take to build into that identity that you've created for yourself, that you've stated publicly. And so that's what that is. But to answer your original question, I would hope you and your wife are having the time of your life. Life is hard. Life is tough. And sex and intimacy is sometimes one of the only places where we have human connection and play and the eros and where you get to kind of step out where you get to fully be seen and known and experienced and where things get messy and things get confusing like all that man it's all good stuff but yeah dude entering into that moment with your wife of a decade or more or whatever y'all got four kids and trying to follow like a roadmap or a chart yeah that's a recipe for not ever being fully present with somebody in fact that's a recipe for using somebody and that never ever leads to a good connected marriage a good sex life or ultimately peace. So that's what I got to say about that. Best of luck to you, brother. You got some hard decisions to make, but it sounds like you're already there. You want my permission. I can't give that to you. That's between you and your faith tradition and your wife, but that's just my opinion on that one. I don't know how to end it, but best of luck to you, brother. That's the best I can say. When we come back, a woman asks, should she break off her engagement with her fiance? because he won't set boundaries with his mom. Yikes. All right, it's February and it's dark and it's cold outside and I know that you're spending more time in bed. So if you're gonna be spending more time in bed, do it right and do it with comfort and get yourself a Helix mattress. It's the new year. Get a Helix mattress. I've been sleeping on a Helix mattress for a couple of years now and I track my sleep and I know for certain that my sleep has improved since I started sleeping on a Helix mattress. Helix mattresses are designed for real people with real sleep styles. Whether you run hot, whether you toss and turn, whether you just go to sleep and sleep like a rock like my wife does. Listen, I want you to get online and take their sleep quiz. They'll match you with the perfect mattress. It's simple. It takes like two minutes and it works. Helix offers a hundred night trial and every Helix mattress comes with a 10 or a 15 year warranty. It's worth the risk. It's going to change your life. And right now, Helix is giving my audience 27% off your entire order site-wide. This is the best deal you're going to find anywhere. Go to helixsleep.com slash Deloney today and get yourself a Helix mattress. That's Helix, H-E-L-I-X, helixsleep.com slash Deloney. With Helix, better sleep starts now. All right, let's go to Los Angeles, California and talk to Monica. What's up, Monica? Hey, Dr. John. Grateful to be here. I'm grateful that you called. What's up? So my question is, should I break off my engagement if my fiance cannot put boundaries with his mother-in-law or with my future mother-in-law? Oh, yikes. It doesn't sound like your future mother-in-law is super great, huh? Not at all. All right. So what happened that precipitated this phone call? well it's kind of been like cumulative so it's just little things that are adding up over time until i became like an explosive bomb and just said i can't take it anymore okay um but there's just a lot of micromanaging controlling um from her she yes she texts or calls my fiance say sometimes daily um she wants to know a lot of she it's just very invasive um and the way she treats him and me is like we're her child under her roof kind of thing like i don't think she understands the concept of leaving cleave very well well it sounds like he doesn't understand that yeah that's true she sounds like she's a mom that overly is overly unmeshed with her son but she's just doing what he allows. He doesn't understand leaving Cleet. Or let me put it this way. She's just filling a relational vacuum. Yes. So the bigger thing is twofold here. One, let's take her completely off the table, okay? What you're really asking me, and tell me if I'm wrong here, is, number one, is being in this relationship nudging you to become a person that you don't like or want to be. Number two, have you been clear with your fiancé that this is important to me and he has looked at you and said, I know, but she's more important than you. because if behavior is a language that seems to be what he's telling you right but like if you if you nickel and dime it like a mom who calls her son every day or text every day that's different than me and my mom but i don't i wouldn't necessarily that automatically mean something's bad it seems like a lot but isn't it but like you said it's cumulative But if you have set your default setting to every call, I mean every – I think she's invasive, and so you'll see everything she does as invasive. But if it's specific, she says we're not allowed to eat at this restaurant. She says we have to be at this place or she's going to cut off her son. She says that she doesn't like the clothes I wear. then now we're getting into invasive she says we're not he he's not allowed to buy this particular house in this particular town and he said my mom said i can't do that now we have a problem do you know what i'm saying yeah i guess what bothers me more than the invasive is like the manipulation and can i give you an example i would love that yeah okay so she called me and said it's urgent. So I called her thinking it was urgent. And she said that her and her husband checked the phone records and my fiance hasn't called them since May, which is not true. And she asked me if I know why he's not calling her as much. And she said, we noticed a change about two years ago. Do you know what that could be from? Well, that's when we started dating. nice okay so this thing happened she said can she said can you figure out what his problem is but don't tell him I asked and I said well if you have a problem with him or your communication like you need to go to him directly I'm not I don't do like the triangulation thing so it's just that's not healthy and you would need to go to him directly perfect she's like well I just don't understand why you can't talk to him for me and just don't tell him that I asked you. And I said, because I don't, I don't do that. So that's the no. Okay. So somebody asked you to do something that was against your character, which I applaud you. Bravo. Bravo for not getting triangulated. Bravo for not holding secrets in your marriage. Awesome. What did he say in response to that? That he immediately say, I'm going to call my mom, dude, I'm sorry. I'm going to pick this. and tell his mom, mom, don't ever call my fiance again like that. Yeah, no, he didn't. So he, he, he agreed with me and said, yeah, that was, that was wrong. Like, I don't know why she did that, but his pattern is avoiding confrontation with his parents. And he, I kind of watch as his nervous system shuts down and he kind of just goes into this blank space kind of thing. And so back to your original thing about he doesn't understand leaving cleave. I think the resentment that I have is less about his mother and more about him because I feel a lack of emotional safety and protection. Uh, when I feel like I'm left to, you know, defend myself because his, uh, coping mechanism is to just avoid and not answer and just become kind of like stoic. Okay, but let me push back on that. What if he has learned over 25 or 30 years that it's a complete and utter waste of time? And that it's a fight not worth fighting because it's unwinnable. And if he told you, hey, if she texts you, just don't respond. Don't call her back because she's not mentally stable. She's not well. what you're seeing what you're calling resignation might be deep wisdom wow you get what i'm saying if she's gonna call you and say that kind of crap i can only imagine what she has said to him over the years right and so what you see is shutting down might be him just putting the car into neutral because he's in the mud i'm not just gonna hit keep hitting the gas here. That's a good point. And for me, I think in the beginning when I would confront him and say, Hey, like that was really hurtful or what the way your parents like treated us was wrong or it didn't feel right. Can we talk about it? He would get really defensive and say like, Oh, they're just joking. Or, um, you just don't like my family. And then we would get in an argument. And now I think we listened to your show a lot and we've done couples counseling. And so he's becoming more aware. I'm becoming more aware of what I bring to the table. And so recently we've had some good conversations where he is less defensive and he's more, more so like, yeah, I avoid it because like the best way to win is to not even play the game. So I do, I do see that there's wisdom in that. so i'm a big lifelong for before it became super famous i was obsessed with mma right even when it was like over in japan it was pride fighting like i've i've been obsessed with mixed martial arts for a long time and one of the keys of mixed martial arts is know your thing really well your discipline the thing you're the best at if you're a wrestler or you're jujitsu person or you a kickboxer or muay thai guy like know your thing the best and try to get your opponent to play that game And where I see fighters over the years get in a lot of trouble is their ego gets in the way And they're a world-class wrestler, but they're fighting a great boxer and they decide to box with him. And they get their head knocked off. and so i wonder if like it's by the way it's very very common super common especially in young relationships but especially over time like i don't want you talking bad about my family great cool um and so you as somebody who loves him needs to know the best way to communicate with him isn't to bad mouth his mom that doesn't make him weird and you figuring out a way you can tell him in a language he can hear which is what like romantic communication is all about it is hey i'm uncomfortable when your mom calls what's a path that you have seen work over the years and he would say dude don't return that call which is what i would coach a fighter to say hey this guy keeps trying to take me down should i just wrestle with him and i'd be like no he's gonna kill you you try to keep this fight standing as long as possible and try to sucker him into a boxing match. You know what I'm saying? So the deeper question for me is, and this is a hard question. When you see him as a man that you're considering becoming a unified team member with, ride or die, us two forever, is he a person you want to be with forever still there yeah because here's what here's what i'm hearing the subtext okay okay and you tell me I'm out to lunch and I'm a moron and I shouldn't even have a show. I'm so dumb. Feel free to say that. What I hear is you don't know if he's the right guy for you and so you've put on a pair of glasses which is I'm going to find reasons why it's somebody else's fault that this close to marrying him ride or die us two till death do us part. I don't think I want to do this. or maybe it's not even that dramatic it's just i got really cool feet yeah because i know loving him means i'm gonna have a crazy mother-in-law forever and that's really what it boils down to i think because they live in in another state so when it's just us too and we have a great group of friends like i see him as that person that i want to marry And then when we communicate with his family, we start getting into this cycle of arguing and we're both triggered. And so that's kind of. OK, so here's my rule on triggers. You get to. You get to be triggered about the same thing two times and then you have a responsibility to go make a change. Either I've got to go deal with my personal trauma history Or I've got to deal with this relational pattern Or I just have to stop picking up the phone And it might cost me an inheritance It might cost me my cell phone plan But just choosing to constantly be triggered Over and over and over again is indeed that It's a choice You can't help it when your body A trigger is your body acting before you even know it To try to keep you safe So at this point, it's in my control to say no to the phone call. It's your responsibility to. Otherwise, every time you pick up the phone, you're choosing misery. You're choosing, because you know how the pattern goes, you're choosing to have a fight with your fiancé. Yeah. Now, the real relational work is every time I answer the phone, I choose to become somebody I don't want to be. I get angry. I get bitter. I get frustrated. So the thing I can control here is to stop picking up the phone. and to your fiance when i come at you and i blame my discontent on your mom and i call her this and i say she's making me do all these things i realize that i put you in a position to let somebody just bad mouth your mom however crazy she is or defend me and that puts you in an awkward position i'ma Quit doing that. A lot of the critique I get on this particular show is I just have it ingrained in me since recess in fourth grade. I don't like talking about other guys' wives. I don't like talking about other guys' girlfriends in a negative light. But it's you say because it puts people on a defensive in a pretty profound way. But I want you to come back and own this. And the question I would pose for you is, are you going to let this woman get between you and the person you want to spend the rest of your life with or not? And if he is telling you through his actions, she's going to be an integral part of our life, then you have a really hard choice to make. or if he's constantly telling you, stop answering the phone. She's not well. Or we have to do once every two years, we have to do Thanksgiving with them. That's just a polite, kind thing to do. And we're going to do it, and it's going to be miserable. And so on the front end, we're going to do some things, and we're going to plan a thing on the back end because it's just, we got to go touch the electric fence once every two years. Then you get to decide I want to be part of that. yeah i i need to reflect on it because i yeah i wonder how that i'm just curious how flash forward you know having kids and then being around their grandparents like i i don't know if I could handle that. And I guess it would come down to how much exposure we have. And if it's once a year, then fine. But if it's more common, then I don't want to do that. So yeah, I guess it would, I need to think about that. So here's my challenge to you as you work through it, okay? Okay. Use I statements as much as possible. Those are words of ownership. Instead of your mother keeps doing this. I want you to use I statements, which are. I don't like being disrespected. I don't like being triangulated. I am uncomfortable with X, Y or Z. And so it stops a the way to Instagram say this is victim mindset. But there's actual real victims in the world, so that blanket statement isn't always helpful. But there does come a point when I want you to begin using I statements. I no longer want to have my body take off and try to solve me and keep me safe every time this other person calls. So I am deciding for this season, maybe not forever, but for right now, I'm going to quit taking those calls. and once a year once every two years if i have to see this person and she starts off with man my son used to call me all the time until you came along and you never take my call you can just smile and say yep i don't pick up the phone very often and go on about your day and if that continues to hang on you like an old wet t-shirt you have to ask yourself what is it about me that needs other people to like me so bad maybe that's what i need maybe i've been a people pleaser my whole life maybe i've been a peacemaker my whole life and i'm tired of that job absolutely yeah that's that sounds i'm gonna let this affect my day yeah yeah oh my gosh yes Now you're on it. Because what you just said there is, I get to choose what happens next. Yes. And when I say what I'm choosing, when you say what I'm choosing next, here's where that's vulnerable and scary. He gets to choose whether he wants to be with you. And when he says, here's what I'm choosing, I will go see my mom once a year. You get to choose. To let him go alone and you not say that's the end of our relationship. You recognize the pickle he's in, which is he's got a mom who's not well and who's super manipulative and it's still his mother and he wants to honor and respect her. And he gets to choose, you know what, I'm going to love my new wife with all of my guts and I'm going to protect her from this trip. I love that. And in a perfect fantasy world, yes, it would be awesome if both of y'all snuggled up and you had two in-laws that were like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're here. We got your favorite food. We got everything for you. It's going to be amazing. Y'all want to go out to dinner? No. Cool. Great. That would be awesome. That's not the life you'll have. By no fault of your own. Not by your hand, but it's in your lap. So you get to choose X, Y, Z, and then he gets to choose whether he chooses you. Yeah. And that's scary. That's hard. And it's also hard to constantly be being whipped around by other people's feelings and emotions and manipulations, etc. So what I'm asking you to do is choose your hard. Choose the path. Both paths are hard. Choose the path that is going to give you empowerment, strength, and peace. So your move, sister. Thanks for the call. Call anytime. And if y'all want to call before you get married, I'd love to take that call too. When we come back, a man asks how to tell his sister-in-law that their filthy home is a danger to their kids and their marriage. Montana Knife Company makes the best knives on the planet, period. This holiday season, me and my son were out in the woods all across the country hunting, doing outdoor adventures. and me and my wife have been cooking the whole break between the woods and the kitchen. I need knives. 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You will not be disappointed. That's montananifecompany.com. All right, we're back. Hey, take two seconds. Two seconds. And just hit the like or subscribe button. This is one of the most shared shows in the world last year. I'm super grateful for you all sharing the show. I want you to take two seconds and hit the subscribe button because it just kicks the show up into the algorithms and puts it in front of more people who need a sensible, just wise approach to see what bravery looks like when you'll call and what doing the next right thing looks like. So take two seconds, hit the subscribe button, and I'm super grateful. Let's go out to Utah and talk to Parker. What's up, Parker? Thanks, John. Well, love the show and happy to be here. Appreciate you, homie. What's up? Well, we want to know how to best talk to our sister-in-law about the filthiness of their home and how it's a danger to their kids in their marriage. Okay, that raises two flags for me, one of which is, if you've listened to this show for any period of time, I'm hyper protective of children. And so let go to the marriage part first and then we loop back to some duties and responsibilities when it comes to hurting kids So tell me about your brother and what he says about his home Well it actually my wife's brother, but my wife's brother and his wife, uh, they're both, uh, almost 40. They've been married for 10 years. Um, this is technically their third place that they lived in. Um, and And frankly, they can't seem to keep it clean. And she's a stay-at-home mom, for lack of a better phrase. And he's the sole breadwinner, so he's working all day. Sometimes he has to travel for work. And he unfortunately admitted to his mom that he dreads going home because it's filthy and chaotic. I can, uh, he doesn't rush home after work. And so where do y'all come in on this? Cause it doesn't sound like he's asked for y'all's help. Um, he's, they've asked in the past, they've asked our help to help clean their home. Um, and when we would help them move, we would spend more time cleaning than actually moving. Yeah. And especially when they're leaving apartments, they have to, of course, keep them. They have to have them cleaned up all stuff, and that takes longer. And we've actually had to put – we've had to set healthy boundaries, saying that after the fourth time of them cleaning it, seeing not to do anything, that we can't come over and clean their home anymore. Okay. And so how did they respond to the boundaries? Kind of indifferent. Like they said, oh, we'll get on it, but they don't do anything. And then because of the level of filth in their home, it definitely contributes to how they get sick fairly often, like more often than my wife and my son do. And then with that, they have no discretion of coming to family gatherings when any of them are under the weather. And then that gets us sick. and especially last Thanksgiving we actually missed we were supposed to go to my family for Thanksgiving but we couldn't because my son had a bad flu because he caught it from one of my nephews alright you're attaching a ton of causality to a group of people you don't like okay Like, like, I think the honest move here is you're grossed out by him. Is that fair? Yeah, it's pretty fair to say. I mean, how old is your kid? How old is your son? My son is eight. Okay. I guarantee you there's kids in his classroom licking the floor and passing donuts around. So who knows where he got the flu? Sure. Okay. and it's gross when people show up and they're under the weather and they're coughing all over everything and they're not using, I get it, okay? But what I don't want you to do is use your kid, use moving, using y'all's previous lack of boundaries as an excuse for saying, I don't want to go around to family, I will not go to family gatherings where they're there anymore. I don't like them and they gross me out. I'd rather you take ownership of what you're going to do next because what's been made super clear in your life, if behavior is a language is, they don't care. Now, if there's rodent feces all around, if there's dog crap all over the house, if there's dog pee all over the house, then I'm going to call social services because those kids are in danger. If those kids are coming to school with open sores and unwashed clothes and et cetera, that tells me that their mom is probably struggling mightily with some sort of challenges, emotional, psychological, or otherwise. Indeed, she is. I mean, she has been diagnosed with OCD and depression, and it seems like she has no motivation to clean. And so thankfully they don't have any pets and cause we know any kind of, uh, uh, uh, rota feces or whatnot to, you know, so I'm just concerned, but we're talking about like, like a moldy food and, uh, just gross. Just gross. Yeah. I get it. I get it. It's gross. And it's not how you and your wife do life and it's not how you would wish anyone live or grow up. I get that. but it sounds like if you want to help her if she's been diagnosed that means she's been under the care of a professional so the big question is how can we get her the support services we need and how can we either get invited to be at the table and help with support there or look at her at your wife's brother and say until you invite us in to be a part of how we can be supportive, we're going to choose to back out. Because here's the deal. What's the alternative? You're now finding yourself angry in October, about two months away of family stuff. Yeah, like to the point where be second guess go to family gathering because we'll know that they'll be there okay I mean they're the sweetest people but yeah living in the situation that they have is we would never want to go over to their place it's always gathering at grandmas okay and so if that is if what y'all need to grieve is man we wish we could go to each other's houses and we just can't or we're just not going to then let's be sad about that and let's get on with our lives. Or if the story is, I wish my brother had never married her. I wish he would just leave her. I wish he would take the, here's the deal. He's not going to, at least not now. And he's not asked for that input. And so just sitting there and basting in that story over and over is a choice to be miserable. It's like screaming at somebody who just cut you off in the car in front of you. All that does is raise your blood pressure. That person can even hear you. Yeah, exactly. So it's a choice for you to die younger in your car. Or you can exhale and open your hands on the wheel just a little bit to relieve some of the pressure and you can just say a quick prayer. Dear God, I hope that dude gets to the hospital before his wife dies. I get to make up whatever story I want. So I can sit at home and be like, this is disgusting, that's gross, that's sick. I can't believe she's like that. She's lazy. She's a so-called stay-at-home mom. She doesn't do crap. You can do that. I wish my brother would leave her. I wish my brother-in-law would leave her. You can do that and all you're doing is making yourself insane and your wife do. Or you can exhale and say, my God almighty, I can't imagine being trapped in her body where she's that depressed and that clinically OCD, where she's frozen in time. I'm going to compassionately reach out to my brother and say, hey, if there's everything we can do to help with her depression, if you need help with medication, with doctor bills, with psychiatrists, we'll help any way we can. We're not going to come over and clean your house anymore because that's just a symptom of a bigger issue. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? Either and, because she's not well, because the whole family ecosystem, because we're just oogged out and grossed out, whatever, we are going to choose to not do X, Y, or Z. Right. It's our choice. Minus the story because the story just makes you all miserable. It doesn't solve any problems, and it's probably partially true. Right. We could theoretically talk to her all the live long day, but it's their choice, and it's also our choice in what we do going forward. That's right. It's you getting out of the backseat of your own car and getting back into the driver's seat. I'm definitely up with that. I prefer driving. Yeah, exactly. I do too. I do too. I'm kind of a control freak, so I do too. My wife says I'm a terrible, terrible driver, but I like to drive. but but and it might be y'all bring invite your brother-in-law over and say hey you've asked us for this before we just want to put this out there we know your wife struggles with depression we know she struggles ocd um we're worried about y'all and um anything we can do to help with the funding the fine i don't know what kind of resources y'all have but when it comes to like help this is y'all putting this on the table and saying here's where we're willing to help moving forward and y'all choosing to say, hey, us being angry all the time or frustrated all the time or mad, it solves nothing other than to create an anxious, chaotic home environment for our kids. And as for our house, we're going to solve for peace, which means we got to be sad because we're going to go do Christmas somewhere else. We're going to go get a log cabin during Thanksgiving, or we're going to have our small family Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. We're going to have a rando Thanksgiving where I'm going to invite a bunch of random people from my office and my wife's going to invite people from her office and we're just going to get together and do Thanksgiving. Whatever y'all want to do, but y'all get to choose what happens next. I'm just telling you, choosing misery and anger and rage all the time about a problem that nobody's asking you to solve is a recipe for burnout, for just bleh. And it's not being uncompassionate at all because it sounds like y'all are super compassionate. It's... It's the futility of trying to help somebody who's not asking for does not want your help, which is heartbreaking. But that's the reality that you live in. Thanks for calling, my brother. Appreciate you. You got the next move, dude. Take care. We'll be right back. 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Go to dutch.com slash Deloney and use code Deloney to get $50 off a year of veterinarian care. That's dutch, D-U-T-C-H dot com slash Deloney, use code Deloney. See site for more details. All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it? Yes. So Sarah from New York says, I work with kids on their social and emotional skills in both school and at home. I've been using the questions for humans kids edition deck during my sessions and the kids absolutely love it. Yes. The combination between serious and funny is perfect. Questions like where do you feel safe? Where what are you most proud of? where are you most calm are amazing for kids who struggle with self-esteem or feelings of safety please come out with decks for teachers and kids or kids to kids these are amazing uh you know what i've never thought of kids to kids that's a great idea um and we do have some teachers and student decks for elementary school and for middle school i don't know if we have them for high school and can i say this i appreciate her note because i know they look silly but i work really hard for them to be developmentally appropriate. And sometimes there's silly ones, like what color is a dragon's boogers? There's silly stuff. But I do work hard to focus on kids learning about their social and emotional needs, and that's awesome. I'm glad she caught that. That's pretty cool. That means she's pretty sophisticated. That's awesome. So, questions for humans, pick them up. They are a tool. They actually are a tool to help people put their phones down and look eye-to-eye and chest to chest and heart to heart and actually have a human interaction, which everyone I know is craving these days. Love you guys. Bye.