Episode 158: Heirloom

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode comes to us from a man named Connor and his wife Lacey. At the time that all of this took place, Connor and Lacey had just left Mormonism, which they had been raised in their entire life. This was a very big change for Connor and because of it, he had a complete crisis of faith. He experienced a complete 180 in his beliefs about the spiritual and when we interviewed him, Connor referred to himself as being a cringe Reddit atheist. He is not the first person to come on the show and describe himself that way. I think a lot of people who grew up in very religious households end up having a complete reversal like Connor, and they end up being a person who goes out of their way to try to disprove other people's beliefs. So, Connor had a hardline skeptical belief until one day some strange things begin to happen in his house that seem to be connected to a certain family heirloom that was being stored in the closet. This episode is titled Heirloom, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with. I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. He was just looking. His limbs were just like wrong. He was just there. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. So I'm Connor Cox. I'm from Mesa, Arizona. I was born and raised here. I've spent most of my life here. It's only been like maybe a nine-month period where I was living in Oregon and I was actually on a Mormon mission. My parents were very, I guess you call them devout Mormons. It sounds weird, but yeah, they were very devout Mormons. I wasn't really given a lot of choice or like freedom growing up. It was kind of, it was a very strict, very structured household. So like, for example, my parents would go through our music, like our song, and go through like the song lyrics, decide which content they wanted us listening to. And like even beyond swear words, they were worried about like subversive ideas, stuff like that. So that was my life. And then I ended up actually going to serve a mission. And so a Mormon mission with that is once you reach a certain age, what you do is you go out and you basically try and convert people to Mormonism in a very structured sort of way. They sent out the missionaries and all that. While it is like voluntary, it's kind of the only choice you have. If you want to be like a good Mormon, like that is what you need to do. At least as a Mormon man, that was an expectation. I ended up serving a mission at least nine months of one. I came home because I got Lyme disease. I think just my overall experience with that is actually the first thing that kind of made me start doubting Mormonism. I kind of decided I didn't think what they were saying was the truth. And I didn't believe that the church was actually like God's hand in our life now. It just seemed like it was an organization and it seemed like they were even kind of corrupt and doing a lot of bad stuff. So that causes a full faith crisis is what I would call it. When your entire worldview and just everything, your whole outlook was based on this very structured belief system, you try and leave that belief system or try and kind of like take that framework out of it you're gone it's like what do I believe about anything what happens when I die like what is the point of this what is what's going on what do I wake up for like everything goes into question or even like is honesty good it's just like everything like you gotta you gotta figure it all out for yourself and that's kind of the process I had to go through rebuilding my belief system without that framework that I was started with for that the first 20 years of my life Growing up and like with Mormonism a lot of the kind of paranormal stuff either they've come up with like a good Mormon answer for it or you don't talk about it and we don't talk about that so specifically I'm thinking like with ghosts I remember growing up like even trying to like talk ghost stories and read that stuff my dad was very quick to like shut it down he'd say things like oh these kind of conversations invite these like bad things was basically what his answer was for it but so we never talked about it And so we never really got to like explore that or really go there. After Mormonism, so after I kind of left that belief system, decided that wasn't true and like that that wasn't really how you get close to God. Or I actually at that point didn't think there was a God. I thought that maybe that was another deception that kind of I think maybe threw the baby out with the bathwater and was like, oh, yeah, no more God, like no more Jesus, no more spirituality. Like none of that stuff exists. It's not real. It's a trick to get you to tithing. And that's where I was at. And so I kind of was definitely very jaded and I kind of turned, I would say, like, cringered atheist. It was very like, if we cannot prove it in a laboratory setting, it doesn't exist anymore. Because someone hijacked my feeling system. Now I can't trust that. So it's like out the window. That's where I was at for a while, like a long time. and it's wild that I was in that headspace when this experience happened. So I'm actually not positive how the, I mean, it's good that you'll be talking to my wife for this because I'm not sure how the doll came into our lives. We'd recently moved in together. We've been together a few years, but it's kind of still in that new period where like just stuff appears and like you're like, oh, there's more stuff. So the doll just kind of appeared one day in a closet. And I believe that she, it's like an heirloom or something she can explain. My name is Lacey. Connor is my husband. We've been together for about 10 years. When I was growing up, for some reason, I really liked glass dolls. I thought that they were really pretty and I enjoyed collecting them. So this specific doll was given to me by my grandmother on my dad's side that's passed away. I'd gone through my doll collection when I moved out, or as I got older, and chose specific ones to keep. And this is one that I kept because of the fact that it was given to me by my grandmother. She was really little and had really pretty red curly hair and a blue dress that had lace and stuff sewn on the edges of it. I had this doll in a cardboard box, and I just stored it in our closet and called it good, because obviously I wasn't going to put those up in my house anymore, but it was kind of just like a nostalgic thing and, I don't know, a weird attachment thing that I just kept it. The way that I came into knowing we even had these was that I had a dream, and it was a really weird dream. It was like all the features and all the details of my house were the same. Like, everything was spot on. It just was, like, hazy. Like, super blurry and hazy and dreamy. Like, this doesn't feel like the real normal version of my house. At some point in my dream, I ended up opening, like, one of our closets in the hallway. And there was a woman just, like, standing right there. And she had deep red, like, ringlet-type curly hair. And the doll had, I mean, it was, like, white complexion. So it was like a white complexion. Same with the woman had a white complexion. Otherwise, though, I don't remember many details about what she was wearing or anything in the dream. That was, it feels a word to say this, but it's like, that wasn't what I was supposed to see is how I feel about it now. And that's like a wild way to say it, but it was like the face was important. Like if you were painting a picture, you would want this thing to be detailed and then this other thing that's in the painting that you don't want it to be as important, you wouldn't paint as detailed. That's like how it was in the dream. It was more like, I'm showing myself to you, and here's my face. The clothing was not important, and that wasn't what I was supposed to see. It was just a look in her face, because it was very close to you. I mean, a person standing in that closet, there's not a lot of room. She barely fits in there. So it was like, oh, wow, there's someone right here. And it was just like, hi, kind of energy, not that she said anything. That's pretty much all I remember. That startled me awake. But I ended up telling my wife about the dream, and her kind of first answer and instinct, she actually was just like, she started going through family members of hers. Because again, she's much more in touch with spiritual stuff than I am, and so she was just kind of like oh was that my great aunt this person or grandma this person or this person Just going through people and looked at pictures of them to try and match It took her a while and I think yeah eventually she just was kind of like there's a doll in that closet. And the doll has curly red hair like that. And then we kind of ended up going over there and looking at it. What the hell? Like, wait, there's, like, it's just like, yeah, that doll resembles the person that appeared in my dream. And what that is deeply alarming, it was a lot. It was a lot looking at that doll. And I don't know that I believed anything still. Even that happened and I was still kind of like, yeah, like that's weird. I was more comfortable with the idea of like, maybe I had been through that closet and subconsciously I'd seen the doll. So that had entered my subconscious and was in my brain. And my brain, you know, it popped out that way. It's convoluted, but like, sure. I guess I just kind of left that experience on a shelf until just in the course of us living together and in that house, the doll got moved from that closet to our personal bedroom closet. And I had a white noise generator that I was using. It was just an app on my phone that kind of made like rain sounds. I would turn this thing on, and as I was going to sleep, it was like I could hear chattering, like talking. This is the hardest part to describe to you, because it was like through the white noise. It was like, you know when someone who's very talented with a guitar uses the guitar to make it sound like the guitar is talking? It's like that. It was like the sounds of talking without the consonants being super hard. It was like they were trying to do it, but it was only sort of on the edge of perception. But I would hear this voice talking to me at night. It was this woman, and she would just chatter about things that were going on in my life. Like just totally random stuff sometimes. it was just talking at me while I was trying to go to sleep. And it was like somebody that, like just a real chitter-chatter person that just wants to chatter about whatever. Like it's not really that important. It's more that they're talking and you're listening and we're here together kind of thing. But like that was happening to me while I was trying to sleep. It was like a really like mundane stuff at first. Like, oh, I can't believe she said that. Gossip, like dumb gossip. Like it was like, yeah, and then this person was doing this. And I don't know, kind of the way the guy was kind of looking into you, no, no, no, no, no, it was kind of like this. It was basically like, I live here too, and I'm observing the people too, and here's my commentary. A little bit. Really mundane, little gossipy stuff at first. And then even to where I felt like, oh yeah, this thing clearly doesn't like my friend Chris for some reason. The way she talks about it was more negative and more antagonistic. It was like, this person has opinions of people, and is chattering away at me. When it got really bad, it started to get a little bit more, I would just say like targeted. Oh, it doesn't like that person. And it's clearly like trying to convince me of stuff. It was like actively trying to tell me that my wife was lying to me about certain stuff, like very specific things, even like things that she had said in the house. Like, I mean, like things that it was here for, I guess, if it was around, but it'd be like, no, she's lying. Like she's trying to, she's lying to you. And like, you're the butt end of the joke. Like that kind of very negative, like paranoia level. It started leaning into that and trying to make me doubt myself. And I think it wanted to separate me and my wife, too, for whatever reason. That's something I felt like it had intentions on and things it tried to do. I thought that was in my head 100%. I was like, damn, I'm now having auditory hallucinations at night, every night? I was like, what is going on? I feel like all these thoughts could have come from my mind, I guess. Like, I could just be making this up. I was positive that's what was going on. One big thing that convinced me it was not was when I started telling my wife, Lacey, about some of these experiences. I was having these dreams and these talking and it was disturbing me while I was trying to go to sleep. And what she did is just straight up vocalized to it in our room. She just said, hey, stop. I decided to like outright say in the room like hey if you're a spirit and you're here it's fine that you're here just don't bother us when we're sleeping just leave us alone like don't put dreams and stuff in Connor's head just leave us be and called it good I went through and I sage that evening as well and didn't really think much of it that night we're laying down I'm going to sleep she's going to sleep I hear the phrase are you sleeping? Like whispered out, kind of snarkily, like kind of like, she said like, oh, don't mess with him while he's going to sleep. And she's like, are you sleeping? Like, are you here? Like, are we good? Are we good to talk for like, it was like, are you sleeping? But my wife also heard this. We were going to bed and I heard in a woman's voice, like a question, sleeping. We both just kind of froze at the moment. I don't know what you do. if it is a thing in my head, I shouldn't engage with it. If it's a real entity in my room, I probably also shouldn't engage with it. Like, it's either way, don't touch. So, like, I kind of just was like, freeze, pretend you're asleep. Like, just don't talk to it. Don't engage with it. But then we ended up talking the next day. In the morning, Connor, we basically started getting onto the topic of like, hey, did you hear that last night? Did you hear that? Like, I heard sleeping as like a question. And he was like, oh my gosh, yeah, no, I heard that same thing. That sent a cold chill down my spine. Again, though, I still kind of thought it was in my head. Like, I was like, damn, I'm messing up my wife now. I don't know. Like, I know, like, we live in a world with, like, the placebo and the nocebo effect where we know, like, if you do not believe that this medication is going to help you, even if mechanistically it was going to help you, you can undo it. You can stop it with your beliefs. And so I was like, maybe via that power, I am making a thing that's messing with me now. That was more reasonable to me than that there were forces that I didn't understand existing outside of me. Especially for the time period where I'm going to sleep, you know, like entering sleep or entering the dream world. I'm willing to believe like I could, all kinds of weird nonsense could probably happen there. Like I'm willing to believe that. So that's kind of like, whatever. It wasn't until like she heard it too that I started to believe. I still, again, was still kind of thinking somehow I could be a cause of it or a big factor in it existing, but that there was a thing going on. It was like, no, no, I can't deny it. I was like, that makes no sense for me to deny that me and my wife heard the same thing talk last night. I can't. We did hear something. And then the nightmare started. It was like every night, Like it was like, this is what happens when you go to sleep now. So the dreams themselves, the thing that really sticks out to me that I remember the most is just how they felt. Like the particular details, I don't quite remember. They were all just like I was in different situations and in a weird, blurry version of my house. But it was like a lot of them, it's like I always got captured. Like a thing gets me in these dreams. and I don't know how to describe this other than this is how it feels and like how it occurred to me but the thing that was getting me in the dreams is also the same and I don't know how to tell you like why I know that but that's like that was that was a theme that I was very like conscious of the whole time was like the same thing is getting me in my dreams even if it doesn't always look the same but basically all the the dreams centered around like an entity of some kind being in my house. Like there's another person here and that other person kept making themselves known in the dream or charging at me in the dream. I had her grab my shoulders and like scream at me like in a dream of war too. It got consistent and I guess bad enough that I actually had to start training myself. I started just anytime that entity or anything started to feel awry or uncomfortable in a dream, I would just start screaming. like just screaming bloody murder. And what that would do is usually make me start screaming in real life and would usually wake me up to get out because it was like, I actually don't feel like I have any avenue in these dreams to do anything about this. Like I'm gonna just keep being terrorized. So it just got to the point, I was like, okay, well we're gonna develop an eject button and call it good. So it was a person or it always looked like a person and I do wanna make that distinction again. But, like, it was, like, its face sometimes in my dreams would change. It would change its face in front of me. And there was a time and it changed its face, like, to my wife's face. And then, like, off of, and then, like, and then undid it. And it was, like, that was terrifying. Like, that was a threat. I don't, like, I don't know what that, you know? So, it kind of changed shape, but it was always centered around it being a person. And it was a person that was, like, I would say, like, a tall person. like 6.5, like 6-something. They're not muscular. They're kind of thinner. Its features would change, or it could change its features, but generally it had curly It seemed like the curly red hair like the doll features were more like the I don know like the normal or the base or like what it would go back to But like that was at least a strong consistent thing There was, there's dreams of being pulled by my ankles completely out of the bed by force by this thing. There was times where it felt like it was just looming over me, which is kind of a, that was a common theme in both the dreams and in, I guess, even waking life. All right. We'll be right back after this quick break. It started to be more active during the day. Like, there was a time we were talking about it, my wife and I, and while we were talking about it, it was like midday, we're getting ready, like maybe 11 o'clock or something, we just hear a disembodied voice like just come out of the bedroom, probably like 10 feet from us, like where it sounded like it originated from. It just went, hey! Like, and that was it. And it was a girl voice as well, but it was, hey! I think I had just gotten out of the shower and Connor was getting dressed or something and we both heard, hey, really loudly from across the room. The voice that we heard was obviously a woman's voice and she was obviously in the room with us. So we both react and look over and then look at each other and we're like, you heard that, right? And like, yep, okay. We both like, just kind of like, what the hell? Like, did you hear that? And like, we just didn't really engage with it, but like something was acting out. There was a couple of times where she seemed to be almost messing with me. Like I remember one night Connor was working really late. We worked opposite shifts for a little while. So he was an overnight shift and I was a day shift. So I was in bed alone this night and I was like looking, you know how you look at your phone, you scroll through TikTok and stuff at night. I was just laying there mindlessly scrolling in bed where I had this, this experience where she or this, some sort of entity like rushed me and like passed through my phone and came like at my face and was making a face at me and it made me like physically jump it was a really pale face that was the only thing that I could really glean from it was that its face was really pale it was almost white and it didn't really have any distinguishing features other than it was making this like like it was taunting me like it was it was smiling like it was excited about like screwing with me it wanted to get a reaction out of me it wanted me to jump it got very bad. The dreams started to get very aggressive. And what happened was my dog, one of our dogs, a corgi, got to it. Just bored, anxious, looking for something to do. Ended up finding something in the closet that's made of paperboard, like the box that the doll's in. And so chewed into that and started getting into that and ended up, I guess, I don't know if it ended up damaging the doll or just getting to the doll. But that was something we discovered after I had started having really bad nightmares. So we discovered the dog got to it and it was like chewed up. So of course we moved the box, like we don't want this to keep happening. Moved the box somewhere else, locating in different rooms. We moved it into the guest room just to see what that would do. And like, there's a dream that really sticks out to me. It was a nightmare where I was in the house again, house as is, and this dark, it's like a, like a silhouette of a person. It was like a dark person shaped nothing, but it was charging full speed. Like I'm, I'm going to tackle you and murder you. Like just full devastating, like wild charge at me from the hallway, from the room where we had moved the doll to. So like, yeah, in the dream it like came out of there and was charging at me and was angry that was a very terrifying dream that dream was very intense and the sight of a dark personage being looking directly at one is is very like that's a very deeply discomforting experience i don't know how to describe it beyond that it was like i'm seeing something i'm definitely not supposed to be seeing. And it is mad at me. You just could feel the intention with all of it too. It was very like, no, I'm coming to kill you. Like was how it felt like it was blasting down the hallway in my dream. It was hard for me to say that one was in my head. I don't think I could have even imagined that. That was more terrifying than like the scariest thing I could have imagined the way it looked and the way it had, like just the feeling and dread and the dream of it getting me. So while it was getting more aggressive with like the nightmares and stuff, it was also being more aggressive like when it was talking to me at night, talking at me, I guess, not to me. But what was happening too with that that was really freaking me out and making me feel like it was in my head was like, it was like she was reading my mind. When I would put words or thoughts like at the forefront of my mind, she would comment on them. Like if the voice would comment on them, which again made me think this must be my, this is coming from me. Like, there's no way this is something exterior. So she would comment on my thoughts that I was having and any insecurities I was having, she would like lean into those. It was hard because I wasn't like engaging with it on purpose ever. Like I was literally like, no, I'm trying to sleep and just sleep and like pretend I'm asleep. But like it would call me out for pretending to be asleep. It's like, I know you're not sleeping. And then it would keep talking. In one instance, it seemed possessive over me, I guess. and that's why I kind of felt like it was trying to break my wife and I up and like trying to get in the middle of that. I felt like she was after me and she actually asked me one time while I was like trying to go to sleep, I'm up, it's late, I'm sleep deprived because of this situation and I got work. She's being pretty persistent and kind of aggressive and kind of loud while I'm trying to sleep, but it's very much like she asked me like, do you love me? Do you love me? You love me. Tell me you love me. You love me. You love me, don't you? Like, you love me. It was like, okay, this is really weird. But it kept going and it just kind of kept doing that. And I'm like, I don't know what to make of this. I really just prefer if it stopped. I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm pretty sure I'm just crazy. I must just be insane. So I was like, whatever, like, yeah, like, I love you. Like, all right, I love you. Love you too. Like, go to sleep. I don't think I should have done that. That was a bad move. Don't do that. I feel like that was when it had more influence over my dreams. Like, I feel like the dreams got worse. Like, it had more power over me after that time. We talked about getting rid of the doll a lot. And even if there were weeks where it would calm down because she'd smudged the house or done something, it would never stay away. And I think a lot of the pushback on those conversations was like, well, this is like, this is a family heirloom thing. And I think we could, we could deal with that or like make it go away. Or it's not really the doll. Like it's just a thing that's messing with us that we should be able to deal with. It shouldn't have to be the doll too. Was I think basically her approach. And so we talked that over and we hadn't quite like settled on like what exactly we're going to do. But I kind of put my foot down and was like, no matter what, like I just, I can't, we can't bring this to our, to our new house. Like I won't do that. and she was like 100% in agreement. It's like if we can't figure it out with a doll or whatever, like yeah, then don't want to bring this whatever bad energy to the new house at all. We guess we didn't know what to do with it either because I mean, if you know that a doll's sketchy or that like there's something sketchy going on with a doll, what is your level of responsibility? What am I supposed to banish the demon? Or like do I, am I supposed to pass this off to someone else? Or like are we just supposed to go bury it somewhere? Like, what is the correct answer? And we just decided, like, I don't know. We didn't know what to do with it, but it was still a valuable doll. And, like, we can't even guarantee whatever's going on is really the doll. So we don't know. Basically, we were starting to move. Like, we were in the act of moving to the new house. Like, we'd already started moving stuff. It had been several trips. And it was kind of just a thing we needed to deal with still. Sticking it in the trunk and taking it to Goodwill It was a goofy solution is how it kind of felt. It felt like passing off the problem for sure, but we also like, we have no idea how to deal with this. I remember the experiences we were like driving to Goodwill to drop her off. It was like I was getting yelled at in my head. It was like this doll was yelling at me and was mad. And I think I remember mentioning to Connor, I'm like, she's mad that I'm dropping her off at Goodwill. I just feeling the energy that you would feel when someone is yelling at you Like when someone really mad at you and they glaring at you from across the room and you kind of can sit there and be like, ooh, like someone, I can feel that someone's mad at me. That's the only thing that I can kind of liken it to is that I could just feel that she was like, screw you. How dare you drop me off at Goodwill? Like I have been with you since you were eight and you're just leaving me here? I'm like, yep, yes I am. I thought it was kind of funny too, and I'm like, I don't know if there's anything to that. But I kind of like snickered at her as I put her down in the bin and was like, bye, have fun, see ya. And it just felt like she gave me like a middle finger and was just mad. And then as we drove away and left, it was like all of her anger and stuff just felt more distant and was gone. And the house felt lighter. There was a noticeable difference with her being gone. For me, it was a very weird feeling. I didn't really think, like, the doll was where this came from. Like, I didn't think, like, oh, this is the doll. Like, I kind of thought something was, like, attached to the doll maybe, or maybe using the doll. But then I was like, I don't, I can't even begin to understand how any of this, the mechanisms of any of this would work. I thought it was a real possibility that us giving the doll away would do nothing. I kind of thought, like, the problem would very, could very likely exist, but I was really hopeful. that it would stop it. Because I felt absolutely powerless to do anything about any of this. So we gave the doll away, and, I mean, coincidentally, I was, like, moved out of that house, like, within the same week, and the issues stopped. Like, we didn't have any more issues. I wish I could say for sure that it was us giving the doll away, but, like, it was all one thing, and I'm just glad that it stopped more than anything, I guess. Because it kind of felt like it was, like, attached to me after me and it was like no it's not on it's not after me anymore it's not on me anymore so that was a big like i guess just chink in the armor of like where i was at with quote unquote cram-grid of atheism but i like yeah which which was just there's nothing else interesting going on and when we die we just die and that's like that was that was it that was my belief uh and then it it was like I just had to kind of live with this huge shape that doesn't fit. It was just like, oh, there's this giant puzzle piece of an experience I had that doesn't work, which for a while I kind of just didn't deal with, but I feel like it has since opened my mind a bit more to what other things might be going on around us. like there's a lot of feelings and sensations and things that happen that like are are really not something I should be able to just throw away or that I could just discount because they're happy like yeah I guess your brain is capable of a lot of interesting stuff but like this was a very weird collection of things for it to do I do feel like this podcast has actually helped me kind of open my mind to the more to there being more going on as well especially as I've listened to it it's kind of I guess maybe helps me have more of a framework for some of these experiences when they're not this crazy wild puzzle piece you can't fit into anything it's a little bit it feels better and easier and like it makes more sense it's a more coherent picture. It's like, okay, I feel like I'm closer to understanding what might actually be going on now. I really feel like we live in such a almost just strange, kind of whimsical sort of world. Like, I didn't feel that way about it before, but I do, because like, there's some weird stuff going on. And like, we're having dreams and people, some people see the future. And like, every night you go to sleep and you go somewhere else. and like we're all, that's fine. Like that's wild to me that like, we're just like, oh yeah, you're conscious. We don't know anything about how consciousness works, but we all just go to, we all lay down and we take a break from that and have delusions like of somewhere else or maybe that is somewhere else. I don't know how to describe what I believe anymore because I'm not sure. I guess I'm open to a lot's going on. I would say it's kind of made it, like I used the word earlier, but like whimsical, definitely more hope. I think it kind of gives new meaning to life because I was struggling with what is the point? And with Mormonism again, I had a very distinct, like, this is the reason for life. This is the meaning of life. That's it. This is what you're doing here. Atheism was like, oh, there is no point. There's nothing. Like, get what you can out of it. Good luck, dude. That's depressing as hell. She said it's core. Like, that's super depressing. Whereas now it's kind of like, I'm not sure what life even is. And I'm not sure what death is. And I'm not sure what the hell is going on, but I'm going to go for it. As a Mormon, I believed when I died, I was going to go be like just tested on how good, like to judge and how good a Mormon I was. And I was going to go to heaven or hell. And then as an atheist, it was like 100%, it's over after you die. Good luck conceptualizing that. like now. I don't know what happens, but like, I think it's a lot more reasonable to believe that there's a question mark there than that there's nothing. Thank you to Connor and also Lacey for sharing this experience with us. You know, I've mentioned on episodes in the past that haunted dolls were one of those things that I really did not expect to be a thing people actually experienced. I put haunted dolls into the same category as floating pumpkins and skeletons walking around. You know, the type of stuff that you see in Goosebumps books and on Halloween decorations. Not something you actually hear about people experiencing in the real world. But we have had so many stories written in to the show about situations like this. And a lot of them have similarities. In fact, we've had enough haunted doll stories sent into us that we only have recorded a few of them, and the ones we do record, I kind of have to space out because I don't want Otherworld to accidentally become a show entirely about haunted dolls, but we get a lot, which is worth noting. whenever we do have one of these stories i'm always left wondering where the doll ended up because the story usually ends with the person getting rid of it in the case of connor and lacy they donated this doll to goodwill you have to wonder who might have bought this doll what they did with it and whether or not this presence that seemed to come with it carried on into the household of whoever purchased it. That being said, if you go on eBay right now, you'll find a lot of people trying to sell dolls that they claim to be haunted. And apparently there are also a lot of people out there in the world who want to buy dolls that they think are haunted. The market does exist, so maybe it ended up with a person who actively wanted a haunted doll. I'd say that would be the best case scenario either way I think the fact that all of Connor and Lacey's problems disappeared the moment they got rid of this doll is the most interesting part of this whole thing that brings us to the end of this episode thank you once again to Connor and Lacey this episode has been called Heirloom and you've been listening to Otherworld Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaefer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson, and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Coberman. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans. Our artwork is by Cul-de-sac Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash otherworld. Our social media is at OtherworldPod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Reese Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you can send us your stories at stories at otherworldpod.com. Thank you.