From Coca-Cola President to Unlocking Human Potential: Ahmet Bozer on the Art of Global Impact

If the only reason, if the only reason you're doing this is to earn money or to earn some status in the society, if that's the only reason that gets you only so far. But if there is something bigger than yourself, something contribution you're trying to make, you're trying to make life better for some people. And that doesn't have to be grand things, but your mindset is about contribution, about legacy. I'm the one that I'm a gamble on, I'm Ramble on, I'm about to get my Ramble on. And I'm the one that really couldn't get a handle on. Then when they see that Mr. Wadda get a chance, come on, then I know. They never thought we would make it. Underdogs, it wouldn't be gave. Labels don't ask who we bring. Tell them we bring in the tape. Hi there. Are you a professional or business owner? Peaches and investors for sharing big ideas and for your presentations just are not keeping up with your vision. That's exactly why I use Gamma app or proud partners. 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Our guests spent more than two decades at the Coca Cola company. Yeah, he rose to become president of Coca Cola International and president for Eurasia and Africa. In that role, he helped oversee some of the fastest grid markets in the world, including India, Turkey, the Middle East and Africa. The young corporate leadership he has served on multiple global boards, including Turkish philanthropy funds and the advisory board of Georgia State University. Today, he is focused on something even deeper. Unlocking human potential is the author of Sogri of framework built on the idea that growth begins with mastering our thoughts, emotions and mental models. From leading global markets to mentoring leaders and developing a philosophy of personal transformation, he still resets right at the intersection of leadership, mind-set and impact. I'm it. Welcome to the Kingdoms forecast. Thank you. Once again, thank you, Adam. You're welcome once again. So let's let's let's touch, you know, from the beginning of your journey, right? So you've actually spent more than 25 years at Coca Cola and eventually led international operations across multiple continents. When you reflect on that journey today, what we have the defining moments that shaped you as a leader. There are so many, but I'll focus on a couple of them, which share a common theme that common theme is sort of fusing what's seemingly different or maybe sometimes opposite experiences into one. So the most important one for me was being exposed to cultures that are predominantly individualistic and those cultures that are predominantly collectivist. If you plotted all the countries around the world on the spectrum, everybody would fall into some place. But but certain characteristics of those cultures would make them closer to being individualistic cultures where you are constantly told you can do anything you want. If you set your mind to it, it's all up to you and your borders are pretty defined. You know, nobody will if they try to breach those borders, that's culturally not acceptable. Then you have these cultures that are more collectivist where things like if I do this, what would others say? Or I have to sort of deliver on the expectation of my community or my family of those who are close to me. So that's your your more mindful of what the society expects from you. I think experiencing both of these cultures were fascinating. And I came to realize that neither one is perfect, neither one is the right one. I thought I had to find the best of both worlds by taking what's best in the individualist cultures and what's best in the collectivist cultures and and then live those values yourself in your life. To the best of your ability. This helps me grow as a person, but it also helps me grow as a leader. And that was probably one of the sort of I wouldn't say a moment, but a defining process that helped me grow as a leader. The other one was more on the business side where the Coca Cola system is comprised of the Coca Cola company itself and the bottling organizations. Those are separate companies. And I've had the chance to work in both. And in the course of everyday life, you know, this relationship is very important to the functioning of the Coca Cola system and having the opportunity to to be in both also gave me that. So those two, you know, two experiences of fusing or integrating two sides of the same equation and experiencing that in your life. I'd say those were the most fundamental experiences that that helped shape my leadership style. Well, interesting, you know, looking at your background, you come from Turkey and I would say you guys tend to have more of that collective culture, you know, that is similar to what we have in Africa. Right. And when I also try to mirror your journey, I'm an African who moved into the Western world. And what were you talking about actually resulted in a culture shock for me, that is looking at how individually stick the Western world is versus how collective our culture back in African Asia is. And of course, you know, like you rightly said, there's no right way. There's no wrong way. Right. And achieving that balance. So how do you achieve that balance, you know, depending on where you go to and how do you still make people see you as being authentic? That is, you know, leaving that collective culture that you grew up with, but also adapting, you know, optimal ways of getting things from the individualistic culture. So how do you achieve that, you know, balance based on context? Yeah, you know, I've always believed in internalizing certain concepts, internalizing ways of being in such a way that if you've internalized this integration within your way of being. And just be authentic, then you're able to connect with either culture. So for example, by the way, for me to internalize something for anyone to internalize a value or a concept, it has to make sense to you, right? So you have to reflect on what makes sense in the individualistic society. And that is one example is being achievement oriented. That's wonderful. And believing that you have a lot more in your power to achieve what you're looking for. Then you think so pushing the limits, trying that, having time to yourself, having your privacy. Those are things all of us need. And so therefore, you know, that makes sense. And I feel I need all of those. Those are good for me. So I internalize that. And I try to live those concepts in my everyday life. Then you turn to the collectivist society. I come from a large family of a lot of great friends. And, you know, I really enjoy when I'm connecting with them, when I when I share experiences with them, when I share joys, when I share sorrows, that human connection comes through the collectivist society. So you then say to yourself, yes, all of those that I've mentioned in the individualistic society are great. But I also have to. This also makes sense. I also have to internalize the fact that those are also good for me. I cannot live without them. So therefore, I have to live that as well. Now, now that you have these beliefs and ways of being, obviously, you have to be aware of your environment, what makes sense, you know, to bring out what doesn't make sense to bring out and try to adapt to those environments in the best way. But let me tell you this, you know, we're all human beings, even in an individualistic society, a human connection is valued very much. So if you have that in you and where it is sort of appropriate, then you activate that. That works. That's a collectivist society feature, predominantly collectivist society sort of theme, let's say. But that doesn't mean that it won't work in individualistic societies. The other way around is sometimes could be difficult, but not every society is homogeneous either in each society. You have people who are more inclined towards this side or the other. But if you have convinced yourself that this is very human aspects of both societies are very human, we have just gone different ways in living those human realities. And if you sort of accept that, make it your own, live it in a context appropriate way, then I find that it generally works. Interesting. You know, you've been able to lead teams across different regions, you know, Asia, Africa. But what are the leadership lessons that still lead with you today for managing teams across different cultures and different social economic realities? You know, something that I've realized fairly quickly is, you know, as the number of countries that I was responsible for, I was increasing. If you take an approach of saying, OK, what's the specific culture in this country and how do I adapt for that? I figured that's not the right way to approach leadership. A better way to approach is we're all human beings. The first question is, what are those common values, common principles that work regardless of where you are? And you'd be surprised that you'd find a lot of those values. Then you could say, OK, I'm going to South Africa. Yes, be aware of some of the cultural aspects there that you sort of enrich your approach with that. But the foundation of your approach is what's common to all of us. I used to call this common currency of humanity. These are invisible. This is an invisible currency. So what is an example? You know, if I show genuine interest in you as a person in a conversation, or if I demonstrate care in what we're doing together, you would that that currency would sort of transmit to you. You're going to engage differently. And that works everywhere. If I demonstrate genuine respect for you, whoever you are, that currency works. If I recognize you for what you've done well, that works everywhere. If you didn't do something too well, if I sort of carefully share that with you. Anniversary of Independence. We wondered about a game plan for the country's future. So Hall of Fame basketball coach, Mike Cheshevsky drew one up for us. To build a championship culture, you need talent and character. You then develop the values of that culture. The best teams have the best values. We had seven integrity. Do the right thing. Respect. Everyone is important. Courage. The courage to say or do what needs to be said or done in that moment. Selfless service. Loyalty. Duty. The dignity of work and trust. Values based organizations stand the test of time. Our country has great talent. And for 250 years, we have proven that we stand unshaken by the tests of history. Moving into the future, we must continue to teach, celebrate, and most importantly, live the values that have made America the best country in the world. Well said, Mike Cheshevsky. Many leaders actually struggle when they come from technical exercy into global leadership. So what skills did you have to unlearn and relearn when you stepped into the executive role? Well, I transitioned to general management, let's say, from a financial role. Interesting. So as a CFO, I was, you know, my character is also very much a control oriented character. And the base of it. So as a CFO, when you're in charge of money, I used to travel around. This was the smidgeness. I used to travel around with a bag this big. Why? Because I had, you know, every number with me that you can imagine. If I had a question or if somebody asked me a question, I wanted to be on top of everything as a CFO. Exactly. So when I first got my, and at that time, internet wasn't as pervasive. And I would say during that time was the first time we got introduced to the idea of email. You know, that was like mid 90s. Being chested. In the company environment. So that was the technology of the time. So I was walking around with this huge bag. When I got promoted to the general management role, I said, well, if I aim to be on top of everything all the time, there is no way I could do this job. So it's not just finance. There's all these other functions. So I decided to reinvent myself and it was more, that's when the people issue became even more pronounced. Because you really have to trust your team. You have to nurture a great working relationship with your team members individually, as well as as a team. So if I can, if I had a good team and if I trusted in them, I don't think I have to walk around with a suitcase of information. So that was the first thing I changed. And I have sort of shifted my focus from doing the functional work into more trying to understand, you know, what's involved in that general management role. Then I discovered things like when there is a difficult time, you sort of have to be there with the people like we had an earthquake, for example. And then you have to genuinely authentically participate in it sometimes as a worker, you know, we set up tents and stuff like that. But also during these times, people would look to you for sort of a constructive vision for hope in a realistic way. So that means that leadership will make you turn inwards even more. Because if you don't feel that, if you don't feel that there's a better future out there. You won't be able to convince your team to that. But if you maintain your realistic, but constructive attitude towards what can be achieved and stretch yourself, be willing to do that yourself. So I didn't experience that as a CFO so much. But as I moved into general management, I started learning that those are traits that are very important for you to succeed in a leadership role. So, and then sort of, you know, you're not expect, you may think because you're in a leadership position that you should know everything, but you will never know everything. And being at ease with that, being at peace with that idea helps also. And so those were some of the things I demoed. Before we dive back into today's conversation, I want to share something important. This episode includes a paid partnership with BetterHelp, a platform designed to make starting therapy easier. I know for my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that life can sometimes feel overwhelming. 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So, if you feel like you'd benefit from talking to a therapist, visit www.betterhelp.com forward slash condamns. That's www.betterhelp.com forward slash condamns to get 10% off your first month of therapy. Once again, this is a paid partnership with BetterHelp and I encourage you to take that first step if you've been thinking about it. Sometimes the best investment you can make is in yourself. Interesting, interesting. It's quite interesting to have a guest like yourself who addresses both sides of the population that we cater to. So, we have Diary of a CFO and of course, who better than an ex-cap-collar CFO to address that side. And of course, you have the Kingdom Sport, which is aimed at mindset, AI, leadership, business insights. And of course, you're also an amazing individual to address that side of the audience. Now, it's interesting to see the evolution from CFO to CEO among individuals. Our CFOs, we tend to be primarily concerned about the numbers, but when you make that move to CEO, a lot of people are met with a real awakening that it's not just about the numbers, but also about the people. So, when you were president of Coca-Cola International, you were actually responsible for markets with billions of customers, right? So, how do leaders make high stakes decisions when the scale of impact is so enormous? Yes, you know, decision making is both an art and a science. And the greater the stakes, the more the art side comes into play. So, one of the things my father had taught me was, Sonny said, there's a process to decision making. In other words, you have to think about how you're going to decide before you decide. I think that was a very important learning. You have to decide how you're going to decide. And sometimes in that how, you have very rational exercises. So, you have analysis or you have research or you say, OK, what are my options? What are the pros and cons of each option? A very cerebral process, very rational process. But that's the science part. There's also the art part. It's what you feel. Maybe it's in your gut feel. It's deciding who would be the right person to talk about this, you know, reaching out to your network, knowing who to ask, knowing what to ask. These are more the art part of decision making. And each decision requires a different mix. And at the end of the day, you're never sure whether you've made the right decision because, you know, if you haven't made that, you don't know if you haven't made that decision, what would have happened. So you will never know that. You know what happens once you make that decision. And you say, OK, it looks good. It looks like I've made the right decision. But sometime down the road, you might recognize an unintended consequence of your decision. And you say, oh, I wonder if I did the right thing. So it's decision making is something like that. It's art and science. And if you try to be absolutely sure about whether you've done the right decision, if you occupy yourself on being perfect, on making that decision, then you don't make a good decision necessarily. But it is important to be thoughtful about it. It's important to be used both your rational side and your gut feel and the people around you who might help you. There's a very nice Turkish saying that maybe summarizes this. It says, you know, talk with a lot of people. Think with few. Decide for yourself. Decide yourself, basically not for yourself. So I always found that very useful, very helpful. Because once you allow, of course, that assumes, you know, the decision that you have to make has a certain time. Like it's not you don't have to make it today. If you have time, it's good to let it extend over this time. And through this process, you start discovering things that you otherwise might not have by following this kind of an approach. Interesting, you know, I think I've realized over time is the best decisions are never made in a hurry. So it's always good to, yeah, think before you act. Right. But what frameworks would you say have actually helped you to balance short term business results with long term market growth? You know, you always look for, first of all, you have to accept that, you know, there's always short term goals you have to meet. And there's also long term goals. In other words, you can't be too idealistic and say, oh, I'll never make a decision that helps me in the short term, but hurts me in the long term. Of course, if you could, that's wonderful. But I try to look at making those short term decisions in a way that they contribute to the longer term where possible. And then the important thing, though, is to run your business in such a way that short term crises, short term surprises are minimized. This means you've established systems, structures, cultures, people, a good planning discipline. So all of these in a well run company, excluding like external shocks that you that is not in your control. If you have your house in order, you already minimize the sort of disruptive short term actions you have to take. But then there would still be short term goals to the extent that you can set them in a way that they contribute to the achievement of your longer term goals. That's the ideal. You try to do that the best you can. So looking back, was there any difficult decision that taught you a lot about leadership and responsibility? Yeah, there were certain organizational decisions and people decisions. Those are the harder ones and sometimes also commercial decisions that taught me a lot. And I think what what what these decisions teach you mostly is you really have to believe in your believe the rightness of your position in what you're doing. Because when in these decisions, you have a lot of objections or a lot of criticism and all of that. If you really believe in what you're doing, you have to hold your ground, not as a stubborn person, but more as one that continues to explain why that's the right thing. Continue to win people over about why that's the right thing. And if you have the belief and inner strength in you, then you can do that. If you are easily swayed by external pressures or external criticisms and stuff like that, then you're not going to make the right decisions. Interesting. So speaking of right decisions, right? You actually spent a lot of time in your career leading growth in emerging markets like India, like Turkey, like Africa. A lot of people complain about emerging markets. They are full of challenges, but I say that they are full of opportunities. So what did you learn about taking on these challenges and also what I say harnessing the opportunities that exist in this emerging markets? Yeah. And I'm with you. They are full of opportunities. There are opportunities in developed markets as well, but the opportunities in emerging markets are from a business growth standpoint are probably even greater. I think the key would be your time horizon because the emerging markets can go through a lot of volatility, ups and downs. So if you view these markets with a longer term mindset, you know that there will be ups and downs. So when the downs come, you focus on how to strengthen yourself through that downtime because that downtime will be over. And then when it's back into the normal business, you have built yourself more strongly and your better position to take advantage of the opportunities. So that's probably the fundamental approach to it is to take the longer term horizon and look for the downs to make yourself better through them. Interesting. So for the founders and the CEOs that are listening today, what are the biggest mistakes that companies make when expanding internationally? What are the biggest mistakes that companies make when making global expansion? Yeah. A common pitfall is let's say you are accustomed to doing business in your own country, right? And you sort of think, okay, the country where I'm going, the same approach by and large would work. For example, you may have a distribution system that works especially well for you in your home country, but then go to another country. That may not work as well because it may not be the same circumstances or the pricing approach. You may be a very premium brand in your own country, but you go to another country. Nobody knows you and you try to start out as a premium that has its risks, maybe. Because you know. So everything is about the context. And first, really, really understanding what are the critical success factors in the country you're going to. And that's not easy. For that, many times, you need good, reliable local partners who sort of know the market, who are honest, you know, who you can partner with in a productive way. So that will be the biggest mistake to avoid, to not assume that what has worked for you in one, two or three countries, even five countries, will work in the next one. Each one has its own dynamics and each one requires a careful, thoughtful strategy to. Interesting. You know, speaking of, you know, local context, that there's something Coca-Cola does in my country, Nigeria. We even have our own branded Coca-Cola, you know, and Nigerian Fanta as well. It's interesting how even in London, Nigerians still go for the Nigerian Coke and the Nigerian Fanta because that is sort of like customized for us. Is there a trick to it, especially with Coca-Cola? You know, I go to some countries and then I'm like, oh, that is the Coke for Turkey. That is the Coke for Romania. That is the Coke for Belarus. But what's up with the branding and customization of Coca-Cola products for certain special countries? Well, that's getting us into, you know, Coke business. And as you know, I've been away from that for the last 10 years, so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on, you know, formulations or anything of that sort. Okay, but like it's clear you guys are doing that market differentiation for certain, would I say, certain markets and it seems to be working. But like in your own view, what separates companies that successfully globalize from those that feel outside of their home markets? What's the differentiating factor? Yeah. I guess, you know, every product, every brand has, you know, what appeals maybe more universally and then what will have to be adjusted locally. Sometimes a certain product may just work universally and that's great. You don't have to adjust anything. But let's say, you know, some countries, you know, orange juice consumption may be so big that it's so relevant in some others. It may be apples. You know, depending on what your product is, what your brand stands for, it's always finding that right mix of, you know, where something is universally relevant. That's great. That means you don't have to spend time and money to try to localize it. But if that doesn't work, you'll have to do that. So each product, each brand will have to be find their own unique mix for that. Interesting. Product market feeds. Let's talk about leadership, you know, and mentorship. Because after your corporate career, you transitioned into advisory and board roles. So how does leadership change when the role moves from being an operator to being an advisor? Yeah, you know, and I've also had some, you know, formal board roles and advisory roles. You know, the key there is to sort of shake off your mental habits of being an operating person. When you're an operating person, your mind is shaped in a certain way. You're operating, but when you're in a board role, you're governing, you're not operating. And that has its own dynamics. You have your fellow board members who participate in that governance. You have certain rules and regulations you adhere to, etc. And, you know, you have more of a long term strategic stewardship oversight, let's say, not stewardship and oversight responsibility and looking at risks over the long terms. It's that kind of focus in the board roles. And you just have to keep and check your previous operational experience to a point that you're not intruding. You're not creating a sense of mistrust or intruding unnecessarily into management's work. Once you do that, and then of course the other changes, you know, when you're operating, you're always on top of all the issues, right? But then when you're in these board roles, you come in and out maybe every three months, every four months. So it is important that when you sort of jump in, you're well prepared and that you can play your role in the best way. So that preparation is also very important. Interesting. So what do great boards do very well that average boards fail to do? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have been in probably, I don't know how many, eight or nine maybe, but so it's hard for me to generalize. But what makes sense to me is, do you have a sort of a good complementary set of skills for the task at hand? So for example, you know, do you have somebody with a technology or AI background today's world, right? Or do you have someone with a people focus? Do you have someone with expertise in the business itself, deep expertise? So I think that that formation is that you have complementary set of experiences in the board. And then, you know, the culture and the environment of the board is very important. Is there participation from all members? Is everybody able to contribute what they can? And, you know, is there like a healthy mix of both harmony in the board, but at the same time, healthy differences of opinion and discussions about them? So it's those kinds of cultural elements are also important in addition to the complementary experiences. And then there's a bit of discipline in how the board is run, right? It's not you don't get your board materials day before the next meeting and there is good follow up and all of those things. So those are the things that come to mind that make things work. And in some cases, you know, the discipline may not be there. In some cases, maybe, you know, it's not run in a way. It's run in such a way that only few people always talk and the others listen. So now I'm not saying people have to say something because they have to say something. No, but it's the dynamic of is there as wide a participation as possible. So that that kind of thing, I think that makes the boards effective. Interesting. So you actually mentor many leaders today. What common mindset barriers, events, talented professionals from reaching their full potentials? It's really hard because in our world today, everybody works long hours just to keep up with what's going on. And it takes a certain kind to be able to step back from all of that and take a look at themselves, take a look at business from a distance and have a good conversation about what's holding us back. And that it's not so much the mindset. I find people to be open quite, you know, they they're willing to listen. But just the pressures of every day makes it very hard for them to be able to step back and look at things with a cool mind. And that's hard. That's hard. Now, you may say that's because the leader isn't able to delegate properly because they now miss the time for themselves. And that's probably true that maybe that's the mindset question, you know, as I think about it, that try to set your work up in such a way that like you're not so swamped and you're like you're accessible, you're able to have time to think for yourself, think, you know, have self reflection time. It's those kinds of factors, I think that allow people to to grow. Then you can also have your classical things like I know everything right. No, that's not the way to do it. Not being open to other views. And there's not a black and white answer on that because sometimes you are right. Sometimes, you know, you can't you shouldn't listen too much. Sometimes you have to so it's it's a balance you have to find. But but if you sort of if you're wrapped up in every day business going on, you never have a chance to step back from yourself and reconsider those. That's where the problem, you know, activity doesn't necessarily generate productivity. Let's talk about your book, you know, the philosophy of soul tree. That book introduces the idea of, you know, doing a kind of self surgery on our thoughts and emotions. What inspired you to develop these frameworks? So when it was time to move to my next chapter, I gave a lot of serious thought to what I should do next sort of what might have seemed natural is well go on and either work as an executive again, or just participate in a number of boards. But I wanted to share what I learned from my experiences in the interest of developing better leadership, as I saw it. So I decided, you know, a good way was to sort of capture my thoughts somewhere in a book. And then maybe I can publish that book at some stage, which I did. But an interesting thing happened in that process. I've always believed that for me to be a better leader of others, I have to become a better leader of myself. And when I realized that's been my approach to leadership. So if I'm going to write anything, I'm not a scientific person, you know, I'm not a this is not based on any science, it's based on my experience. If it's going to be based on my experience, then it has to honor that principle. Leading yourself better before you lead others better. So but then when I dove into that subject, self leadership, I found myself in really the realm of what's growing as a human being, you know, because if I'm going to lead myself, what am I going to lead myself towards? What is it for? What's my end goal in leading myself? If you're leading a company, your end goal may be to make more profits or to add more value to your stakeholders. What's the end goal of leading self? I decided that was this, just like businesses, we also have incredible potential of what we can accomplish and who we can become, the kind of person we can become, both accomplishments, the what and the how, both. So if that's the goal of self leadership to discover and realize ever more of my better self, so I found myself in this concept of working on yourself to realize that potential. And I said, what does that feel like? Man, it looks like it's like you're doing self surgery, you're doing surgery on yourself. And that's how the name came up, self surgery of the soul. So yeah, it was like a desire to contribute something in the area of leadership. And if you dig deep into its foundations, I ended up spending this time on what I called initially self leadership, but then what in reality was a way, a framework to continuously realize your better self through life, through your everyday life. Okay, many people focus on external success, but they neglect that inner growth. Why do you think or why do you believe that personal transformation is the real foundation of leadership? Because that approach avoids having to pretend. In other words, if my inner self is strong, meaning I can manage my emotions, I can decide what skills to build, I can build those skills, I can increase my wisdom, I can know more about things. So, you know, all of that is included in your inner self, I'm including your skills in your inner self, you're building your skills. So if those are there, and you just authentically, you're authentically present in all situations, you don't have to pretend that inner self comes out naturally. If you sort of ignore your inner self, and just focus on what am I going to do today in this job, or, but then, you know, your inner self is sort of struggling there. Yeah, maybe you might be able to sort of twist some arms or force some solutions, but that that is not sustainable. But if you keep building a stronger inner self, which I include in the book, in that inner self, your wisdom, your character, and open heart, and your skills, those are the four things, your skills, which includes your job skills, as well as your soft skills, those will naturally come together in your job, they will come together in your role as a family person, like if you're a father or mother, or so, just keep building that inner machine, keep building that inner machine, and reflect them through your roles in an authentic way. That's how your performance is sustained. I'm not guaranteeing success for two reasons. Success may be different to you than it is to me. It's a relative thing, what you consider success. But what I'm saying is that you can sustain a high performance through this, through, on an inside out way. There's a whole... What would you say are the key mental models that people have to master to unlock the true potential? What are those mental models that people have to unlock to unlock the true potential? Of course, there is no one right answer on these, but what Soljari says is being a meaning seeker. In other words, if you're in doing a job, if the only reason you're doing this is to earn money, or to earn some status in the society, if that's the only reason, that gets you only so far. But if there is something bigger than yourself, something contribution you're trying to make, you're trying to make life better for some people. That doesn't have to be grand things, but your mindset is about contribution, about legacy. That doesn't mean you ignore your financial goals or other personal goals. You don't ignore them, but you put them into the context of the contribution you're making. I'd say that's actually two mindsets. One is that you're seeking some meaning out of what you do. The second one is that meaning usually comes in the form of some sort of a contribution, some legacy. I call this a legacy mindset. Being a meaning seeker, having a legacy mindset, those are a couple of the mental models. Then, how do you engage with people at work, at home, in your society? You asked earlier about how do you engage in different cultures? I talked about this common currency of humanity. Those common currencies, there are certain qualities like integrity, courage, fairness, respect, humility, that connect us more closely with one another. If I approach you with respect and humility, you probably will be more approachable, you'd probably engage with me more. The third mindset is to have that kind of authentic human connection, behaving with these qualities that connect us to one another. That's the third mindset, meaning legacy, human connection. The fourth one, I'd say, is resilience. All the problems we face, all the adversity that finds us when we're not expecting the most. Do we have the mindset of approaching that so that we grow through them? We truly do that. Then finally, I'd say, if you take these four mental models, you can always improve how well you are acting on these. There is no perfection in them. Sometimes you'll do well, sometimes you'll fall. How consistently, how well, so let's say, take a certain human quality. If I'm connecting with you, how deeply am I connecting? I can always improve on that. I can always grow in each one of them. I can connect with my meaning every minute of my life. That's a way out goal. I can apply a growth mindset to my challenges in a certain way now. I can improve on that. In all of these four, you are constantly growing yourself. Continuous growth. That's the fifth mindset. I'd say, soldiery boils down to those, seeking meaning, having a legacy mindset, engaging with human qualities that connect you to other people, finding growth opportunities in your challenges, and then continuously growing yourself, no matter where you are in life. Those are the five mental models. I think that lay a robust foundation for growing as a leader. Amazing. Where can people find the book soldiery? Is it an Amazon or what other platforms is it on? Can we have the link in the description? Yes. The book is available in three formats, both in print, in Kindle, and in audiobook. In audiobook, it's pretty much in every platform from Spotify to Audible to Storytel, whichever country your audience is in. They can look it up as an audiobook. They can download the Kindle and they can purchase the print book through Amazon and many of the other US retailers. What I would recommend to them is this. Before they buy the book, now if they relisten to this podcast, I really want to buy the book, okay, go ahead and buy the book. But if you're not sure, go to the website, which is soldiery.com, www.soldiery.com, and sort of surf that website a little bit. Try to read some of the things, try to look at the soldiery model and see how it does approach growth and all of that. Then they can, from there, they can click to the in the book page, whichever retailer they're going to buy it from, they can go there. Also, they can follow me on LinkedIn with my name and I engage, you know, I share short videos every week. They can, when they're in the website, they can join my newsletter. I'm sending monthly newsletters on how to live soldiery. So there's all these ways they can engage with soldiery, including buying the book. Amazing. Amazing. I will definitely have that in the description section. So let's talk about the future of leadership and of course, human potential. Having worked across corporate leadership, philanthropy, and education, what gives you the most hope about the next generation of leaders? Well, I'm always, you know, I'm not one of the kinds who enjoy conversations when people say things are so bad and oh, we're done. You know, life will always serve us, life will always serve us, you know, disruptive things as well as opportunities. There'll always be adversity, unexpected challenges. My view is this will never end. And we have to focus on what we can produce, what we can make happen on the on the more positive side. I'm quite one of the things that's very encouraging for me is that as I was socializing the book, I get feedback from many saying, this is what this new generation is looking for, they're seeking. And if that's true, which I find that it's true in many cases, that's very encouraging, because that means people want to have a sense of meaning, a purpose, and they want to integrate their lives behind that purpose. That's a wonderful awakening. We didn't have that when I was young. We were pretty much like, okay, you're going to graduate from college and you're going to get a job and you'll get married. And it was like a pretty much laid roadmap for us. And we follow that. But this generation is asking for meaning, they're questioning things. I think that's very encouraging. I'm also quite encouraged about what AI can do for humanity. Now, I do have to say this will be a very, very disruptive period, because AI can be an incredible enabler of realizing our potential, but at the same time, it can be the reason why we shrink. And it is up to the individual, and it is up to how it's governed, both of these factors. On the individual side, if you use it in a lazy way, I'm going to let AI do my work for me, you will find yourself on the shrinking path. But if you use the harder working way to create a better version of yourself by using AI, using it as a mirror to yourself, and yes, getting rid of low value work that you're doing, but really focusing on high value work, which will always be there, as long as humans exist. So in a way, I'm very encouraged by what AI can do. But I also have to say that some of its risks are inevitable, job displacements and losses and how people will adapt to that, how governance will deal with that. Those are unknowns. So yeah, those give me both the hope and the caution for the future. So speaking of AI, how should companies rethink leadership development in a world that is shaped by the rapid changes and global increasing global complexity? How should companies rethink leadership? Yeah, I think a couple of mindsets become very important in my view. One is, is the mindset of how AI will make us better as an organization that you're really committed to walking that path, not sort of overly protective, trying to protect your organization, but really a more constructive, more creative approach with what AI can do. Second one is a more holistic systems thinking type of view that becomes very important. So you should even ask the question of with AI, is my primary product and service still going to be relevant start there? Then question is my business model, the right business model? Do I have the right people? Do I have the right processes? Everything, how am I engaging with my stakeholders? So think about beyond your company, think about the ecosystem in which your company exists. And with that perspective, evaluate everything from the beginning, and then reinvent yourself. So that's the second mindset, a systemic view where you question every existential question about your company, and be willing to take the risks and the actions to evolve it so that it thrives in an AI world. I know these are easier said than done, but it's this kind of people, this kind of mindset that will decide how people will leverage the AI capability that we're being served. Is that so? If you were advising a young professional starting their career today, what capabilities would you tell them to build first? You know, I'd say ability to reinvent themselves. So I'd say in your life, you will probably get involved in 10, 15 different things throughout your career. They may be completely different areas, they may be related, but and you will learn, you will prove yourself, you will be successful, and then you'll find that you're disrupted. You're going to have to reinvent yourself again. So I'd say that would be my number one advice to somebody going into, and they shouldn't be scared about that. That's a wonderful muscle to build that allows them to lay stronger roots that they can stand on their two feet in life, no matter what happens. So the other thing I'd say is, it seems, you know, all these things about work-life balance and, you know, we're so comfortable in many ways in many parts of the society that sometimes I think, you know, the value of hard work and sacrifice is slowly being forgotten. Like you have to sacrifice sometimes from your personal life so that especially earlier on in your career, you have to work extremely hard to do that. And sometimes if you have to reinvent yourself, that comes through. And then never to fall into the whole of, I'm just working too hard. And you know, what is this? Where is this going to? Oh, I'm not, you know, don't complain about it. So that will be another thing. Yeah. Okay. Amazing, amazing take. We're getting to the end of the podcast. And there's something I always love to say that anytime a person shares a time with you, they're sharing their life with you. Of course, the SI unit for measuring life is time. So gratitude is good attitude. And, you know, for me to you, it's a very, very big thank you for sharing your life and your time with us on the podcast today. But before you leave, we have a tradition of asking the quick, fire-round questions that is five quick, fire-round questions. And of course, putting you on the hot seat to ask you to individuals, right? So the tradition is you mentioned one person, you are going to invite on the podcast and you invite, you mentioned another person you would like for me to invite on the podcast. So would you give me two names, one person you invite yourself or one person for me to invite? Why do you think about those two names? Maybe we should take you through the quick fire-round. So that is five questions. Just give an answer that comes to your mind first. So number one, what is one leadership principle you need by every day? What is one leadership principle you need by every day? You get your mind on to the contribution you are going to make in your area of work that day. What are you going to make better that day? So get your mind oriented to that. Interesting. So number two is what is the best career advice you have ever received? Surround yourself with good people. I think that is amazing advice. Number three, what is a book that changed how you think about leadership? Very young. I was two books, seven habits of highly effective people by Steven Covey and the effective executive by Peter Drucker. Oh wow, interesting. Peter Drucker, that's an OG of management science. Interesting. I've read one of those books. I think I'll go grab the second one. So number four, what is one habit that helps you stay mentally strong and focused? Self-reflection. Okay, a soldier by the soldier experts. And number five, if you could summarize your life philosophy in one sentence, what would it be? If you could summarize your life philosophy in one sentence, what would it be? It is keep serving in areas where I have the skills. That's basically what it is. Wow. I actually wrote it down somewhere. I don't know if I wrote it down exactly as this. I took time to, I like if you want to hold just for a second, I'm going to read to you from where they are. It's the same thing. I just want to be able to say it. I want to see if I said it in a different way. So to see, here we go. To serve with excellence in areas where my skills can make the most meaningful impact. I think that is brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant. Wow. So I hope you wrote the names that you would love to see other podcasts. Two names, one name you invite yourself, one name I get invited. One name comes to mind, but instead of naming them right here, I just want to be respectful of their privacy and ask them and introduce that new and let them come and then I'll find another second name too. So I'll share those with you. Okay. Amazing. Amazing. Let's cover the name and uncover the name after. I think that is an amazing approach. Okay. So if the listeners could take only one idea from this conversation we've had today about leadership and unlocking human potential, what should that idea be? Never doubt that your potential to do better and to be better is greater than you think. Oh, wow. Wow. Never doubt that your potential to do better than to be better is greater than you think. I think that that's actually true. I'll tell you somebody yesterday that things are never as good as we think and they're never as bad as we think. Right. So we need to be open minded. Yeah. I think this speaks to it. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's a very, very big thank you for me to you, your man who is actually, what I say, he needs many lives and of course aligns very much in my philosophy and of course aligns with the number one brand in the world for me that I love. So many things to love and appreciate about you. So it's thank you very, very much for your time today as well as God bless you and of course to the guys, to the people who listen to us. Never forget it. All is thank you very much. All is go for something in your life's conceit strive to thrive and of course achieve the deal. I call me way next time guys, you know, keep, keep winning and of course, keep subscribing, keep sharing the word and of course, you know, keep helping us grow to that global top 1%. Alrighty. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. 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