GABA, Methylene Blue, Mitochondria and The Parasympathetic Edge with Dr Scott Sherr

We used to think that depression, for example, was a serotonin deficiency. And that's why we were giving serotonin-ergic drugs or drugs that increase serotonin like SSRIs, like Paxil and Prozac and things like that. But we now know that there is no evidence that serotonin levels are lower in people with depression versus the people that don't have depression. But their GABA levels, by the way, are lower. GABA deficiency is absolutely associated with depression. Well, welcome back to the podcast. Our topic today is GABA optimization, mitochondrial recoupling and the parasympathetic edge with my guest, Dr. Scott Scher. We're going to talk all about the importance of GABA, the breaks in your brain. We're going to talk about why humans are stuck in fight or flight and the sympathetic spiral of doom. And we're going to talk about the parasympathetic edge, how this enhances our healing, our recovery, our energy, our brain function. We're going to talk about mitochondrial recoupling and key compounds that can help to activate the mitochondria and recouple it for optimal energy production. We're going to talk about how to leverage oxygen in our system for better energy production, how to rewire the nervous system and pull our body from stress and survival to adapt to really health and thriving. And so a little bit about Dr. Scott. He's a board certified internal medicine physician, certified to practice health optimization medicine and a hyperbaric oxygen therapy specialist. He runs TROscriptions.com, which is a line of physician formulated pharmaceutical grade and precision dosed buckle trochies containing novel ingredients like methylene blue, for example. And these formulas help enhance energy focus, sleep stress, immune support and more. He's also the vice president of health optimization medicine and practice and the chief medical officer of one base health, a company building software and hardware to power integrative technology, including hyperbaric chambers, lights, sauna and more. He has a wealth of information. You guys are going to learn a lot. You're going to really enjoy this conversation. I know I did for sure. And again, you can check out TROscriptions.com and also Dr. Scott share SHERR two hours at the end of his last name to learn more about Dr. Scott and about the products he utilizes and talks about in this interview. And of course, also check out DrJockers.com if you have questions about any, any major health questions, DrJockers.com. We've got the best articles and infographics. We also offer virtual health consulting and coaching as well. So you can reach out to us about health coaching and any questions that you have. You can email us at info at DrJockers.com. Thanks so much for doing that. Thank you for being a part of our podcast community. You guys are going to enjoy this episode right before we go to it. We've got a message from one of our sponsors and then we're going to go right into the episode. God bless you guys and we'll see you in this interview. If you're like me, you're on a mission to simplify and accelerate your path to health optimization so you can feel better now. And I just discovered TROscriptions, a company that uses the most novel delivery method on the planet, the Buckle-Trokey. These are extremely fast acting, typically 15 to 30 minutes, because they infuse their ingredients directly into the cheek mucosa, an area that is highly vascular and very close to the brain. This approach bypasses the digestive system altogether, leading to faster onset and higher bioavailability compared to traditional oral supplements, which can often take up to two hours to make an impact. 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There's a completely new way to optimize your health. Give it a try at troescriptions.com forward slash Dr. Jockers or enter Dr. Jockers at checkout for 10% off your first order. That's T R O S C R I P T I O N S dot com slash Dr. Jockers, D R J O C K E R S for 10% off your first order. Clean energy, clinical grade, you'll feel the difference. All right. Well, here I am with Dr. Scott Scher. He is chief medical officer of OneBase, and also he is a health optimization medicine practitioner and board-certified internal medicine physician. And he runs TRO-SCRIPTIONS.com. Great interview today. We're talking all about GABA optimization mitochondrial recoupling and the parasympathetic edge. And so Dr. Scott, great to connect with you here. Let's start with why humans are stuck in what you call the sympathetic spiral of doom. Why so many people are stuck in fight or flight? Yeah, I feel like I should have like a sound track every time I say, somebody says a sympathetic spiral of doom behind me, like the dun dun dun kind of thing. It sounds kind of ominous, and I understand that it can feel like that for many people. And that's kind of why the name kind of stuck as I was describing this to my patients and realizing that so many of us are stuck in this sympathetic loop, which means that our sympathetic nervous system is just overloaded. We're in fight or flight all the time. So our autonomic nervous system, our nervous system basically has two branches. One's called our sympathetic nervous system. One's called our parasympathetic. Sympathetic is our fight or flight. It's the thing that's supposed to make us run away from the proverbial saber tooth tiger. I don't know why we use that analogy, but we always do in medicine. And then parasympathetic is supposed to be your rest, digest, detoxification, relax. But the way modern society works is that instead of being in parasympathetic most of the time, which is what we're supposed to be, we're actually in the sympathetic most of the time. And that's because of just everything that's going on. I call it top down and bottom up. What I mean by that is that top down is like there's a lot of things externally that are causing our stress, whether it's work, it's our family, it's our job. It could be any other number. It could be from when we were a child and we had trauma, for example, it could be tons of things that keep us there. On the other side of things, you can also have things that directly affect ourselves, especially a part of our cell called the mitochondria that make energy and things like toxins in our environment, insulin resistance, and medications and infections that are also affecting how ourselves can make energy. And if our cells can make energy effectively, they go into this sort of what's called the cell danger response, this stress response that makes it even more difficult for you to make energy, increasing your sympathetic nervous system that way. So you get these sort of top down, bottom up inputs that cause the sympathetic nervous system to be activated. And when that happens, you're pumping out neurotransmitters like epinephrine and norepinephrine, you're pumping out hormones like cortisol as well that are basically causing a lot of stress on the system over time and making it break down. And people don't realize that they're in this loop, but when it happens, it's very difficult to break unless you understand what's happening. And when you're trying to break it, it's very important you break it from understanding it both on the sympathetic side and also on the cellular side too, because if you just do one or the other, you're going to get into trouble. And I see this all the time in clinical practice. Yeah, it's a great explanation. And you know, we're sympathetic nervous system is great. Like when we're exercising, we should be activating it. We need it for performance for really accomplishing a lot of things in life, but we should be able to switch back and forth like very effortlessly between sympathetic and parasympathetic. So when we're not trying to perform or exercise, when we're just sitting on the couch, we should be in this kind of relaxed state where we're undergoing deep healing, right? And our body is able to kind of reset, heal and regenerate, right? But so many people because of they're stuck in sympathetic dominance, they never really get into a state of, you know, heightened parasympathetic tone. Is that correct? Exactly, right. And so the parasympathetic nervous system is supposed to be the one that's activated most of the time. If you think about, if you look at like tribal cultures, even some of them that are still existing now, in tribal cultures, most of the time they were resting and relaxing, right? But then when they had to do things that they were doing things, if they were going to hunt, they were going to hunt, if they were foraging for food, they'd forage in for food. But for the most part, it was trying to relax as much as possible, because that's when you weren't burning as much energy and you were conserving energy. And also, that's when you were resting, detoxifying, you know, and recovering. And people don't realize that, you know, if you're exercising, of course, you want to activate your sympathetic nervous system, because you want to, you know, use that sympathetic reserve that we have to gain more muscle, to gain more strength, endurance. But as soon as you're done with your exercise, you need to go into that parasympathetic mode to actually recover and also gain what you're looking to gain, whether it be endurance, hypertrophy, or muscles and things like that. Because you make all your gains from the gym after you workout, not when you're working out. And this is what, what I've been calling the parasympathetic edge, which is if you can get yourself into be more in the parasympathetic mode, your workouts, your performance is going to be better on when you're exercising, but also at work as well. Because if you're too stressed, your, the front part of your brain doesn't get enough actual blood flow, which is your executive function. It's like, where you keep things for your memory, for keeping things in your mind, your executive function goes down. If you don't have enough blood flow going to the front of your brain, this is the classic story of like going in front of an audience to give a speech and forgetting all of your lines, right? And this, that's kind of like the classic idea. And so if you can maintain more parasympathetic tone, you can optimize your performance both in, you know, the boardroom, you know, in the bedroom, like when you're going to bed, of course, because sleep is parasympathetic, but you need to be more parasympathetic to get to sleep. And also, of course, for exercise too. So the key is to understand that, you know, when I went to medical school, for example, like that we had shirts, my friends and I, that said sleep is for quitters, right? The whole culture around, you know, I'll sleep when I'm dead, the hustle is real, go, go, go, go, exercise and go to the, go to your job and go to your meetings and never have any breaks between the day, like eating, standing up while you're eating. This is all not good for our nervous system. So the real key is to understand we have to find ways to, to calm it down and to be more mindful of that. But it could be difficult because, you know, we, most of us don't, a lot of us don't realize what it felt like to actually have a nervous system that was calmed down. So, you know, leveraging the GABA system can be very, very important here. And we can talk about that. And also make sure, making sure the cells are well supported, because if you start taking the, if you start putting the brake pedal on and getting the brakes to start, you know, actually going back on, but you don't have enough cellular support, you might crash along the way. And I see this in clinical practice a lot. People go to their practitioner and feel like a lot of nervous is anxiety and things like that. They get something to calm them down, but then they crash. Why? Because the system didn't have enough support to maintain at that parasympathetic mode. Josh Axe I just want to take a moment and interrupt this podcast to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts I listen to. It's called the Dr. Josh Axe Show, hosted by my good friend, Dr. Josh Axe. Every week he shares how to balance your hormones, restore your gut, boost your energy and slow aging without relying on harsh medications or quick fixes. He shares both ancient, biblical practices and the latest breakthroughs in nutrition, herbal remedies and lifestyle medicine. And he sits down with world renowned experts to have real, unfiltered conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So if you're ready to take control of your health, renew your energy and transform your mind, body and spirit, tune into the Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. Josh Axe You mentioned GABA and we think about GABA as this neurotransmitter that's the breaks to the brain. So we have all this excitation, which we can think of as adrenaline in our brain, glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter. So stress hormones and glutamate, it's kind of the gas pedal, right? And then GABA is the breaks and we need, just like driving a car, we need to hit the gas and we need to hit the breaks, right? And we need to have kind of a good fluidity between the two in order to operate our car effectively. Well, it's the same in our nervous system. And so, but in our society, we're so amped up like you were talking about. So let's talk more about GABA and the importance of that. Josh Axe Yeah, so you mentioned glutamate as well. So glutamate is our primary excitatory neurotransmitter and GABA is our primary inhibitory. So gas breaks. 80% of your neurotransmission, neurotransmitter function is actually glutamate and GABA. The rest of your superstar neurotransmitters, you know, your norepinephrine, serotonin, dopamine, only 20% of your brain's neurotransmission. So it's really running the show is this balance between glutamate and GABA. And interestingly enough, almost all of your GABA is made in the brain. Glutamate converts into GABA in the brain using the cofactors of vitamin B6 and magnesium. And the challenge is that the majority of us are GABA deficient. And that presents with anxiety, with depression, with insomnia, with mental health problems. And to go back to depression for a second, it's interesting, right? Because on average, we have about 70,000 thoughts every single day, 70,000. That doesn't mean it's the same, doesn't mean it's a unique thought, it could be the same thought over and over again. But when you're anxious, when you're stressed and you're depressed, you can have up to 120,000 thoughts per day. And so when your mind is overactive like that, it's because of GABA deficiency. I mean, for a long time, David, you probably know this, that we used to think that depression, for example, was a serotonin deficiency. And that's why we were giving serotonin-ergic drugs, or drugs that increase serotonin like SSRIs like Paxil and Prozac and things like that. But we now know that there is no evidence that serotonin levels are lower in people depression versus the people that don't have depression. But their GABA levels, by the way, are lower. GABA deficiency is absolutely associated with depression. But if you go to your regular doctor and you complain about fatigue or depression, I mean, I was in this situation when I first went graduated residency and went and worked with the primary care doctor, everybody that came in the office that had fatigue or depression got an SSRI, right? Because that's how we treat you. But that's not really what's happening. If you really leverage the GABA system and understand if you can support it, there's lots of different ways to do this and get that brake pedal to be working better, then a lot of these symptoms often go away. And I guess it's always multifactorial, right? Because GABA levels go down because of that sympathetic activation, no doubt about it. Yeah. And inflammation as well. Yes. That's the other thing I was going to mention. If inflammation levels are very high, you don't have the ability to convert over from that glutamate to the GABA. And the big way that we see this is that it's an eliquid gut, for example. So if you have a leaky gut, a lot of inflammation, there's a couple of things that are happening here. Number one, that you also have a compromised blood-brain barrier. And if you... So GABA itself, you can take GABA supplements, but they shouldn't work. If they do work for you and you take GABA as a supplement, it's because that brain barrier is actually leaky. It's actually allowing things in that shouldn't get in there because GABA is too big to get across. So I've seen this in clinical practice where I give my patients, you know, they're taking GABA supplements and then we... Then they're working for them. Then we give them something that will optimize their gut. And their gut is no longer leaky. And then the GABA supplements stop working. And so you have... It's very interesting how that goes, right? So the key is to optimize GABA levels, knowing that you need to do this in a holistic way. I mean, obviously, long-term, you want to optimize the gut. You want to work on B6 and magnesium levels. You want to optimize the precursors of GABA, which are glutamine, which is amino acid. And then of course, there's glutamate. You don't only want to give sources of glutamate typically, because that's like going to the Chinese restaurant and having MSG in your food. It doesn't feel very good for most people. That's an overload of glutamate very quickly. So you want to give the precursors. You want to look at laboratory values. You want to understand how to decrease the stress on the system. But right now, if you want to optimize the GABA system, there's a couple different ways to do that. I typically like using some supplementation because it's a way to kind of give people the experience of calming down the nervous system now. But you don't want to be drinking alcohol. You don't want to be taking benzos. You don't want to be taking sleep drugs if you can, because all these drugs, what they do is that they bind very tightly to the GABA receptor on a separate site of where GABA would bind, not where GABA binds, but the separate site. And they increase the affinity for GABA to bind so dramatically. And the increased tolerance withdrawal and dependence are very, very common with all of these things. And we of course know like with alcohol, you might go to very quickly, but you're going to wake up in a couple hours or wake up in the morning feeling like crap and your sleep score is going to be terrible. So what I always think about here at TROscriptions, we've created a couple of compounds, a couple of products come to me called TRO-COM and TRO-Z that are naturally enhancing the GABA receptor using compounds that are very safe and then using them in combination to prevent any tolerance withdrawal or dependence. We use something called B3 GABA in TRO-COM. B3 gets across the blood-brain barrier, no problem, and it brings GABA with it. And then there's a little bit of B3 and there's a little bit of GABA in the brain. B3 is mildly activating, which is good so you don't feel tired. So you have the anxiety relief, but you don't have the sedation. Then it has Kava, CBD and CBG, both non-psychoactive cannabinoids. The Kava is great, but of course Kava on its own can cause a problem for some people, because Kava itself can sometimes, it gives you that drunk feeling and people need more of it over time, where Kava combined with the nicotinol, excuse me, the B3 GABA, is very, very effective in this way along with we have CBD and CBG in there, which also work on the GABA receptor. They work a little bit on the serotonin side and then also work on the endocannabinoid system. There's something called TRO-Z for sleep. TRO-Z has a combination of something called agarine and hanokia from Magnolia Bark. Agarine is from a psychedelic mushroom called the aminida muscaria mushroom. It's not a psychedelic ingredient at low doses. The aminida mushroom is the beautiful mushroom with red cap, white spots. It's thought to be maybe related to Christmas, Alice in Wonderland, Mario Brothers, if people are listening, they're probably just the most iconic mushroom out there. But it's toxic if it's not dried. Obviously, there's another ingredient in there called ibotinic acid, and that's neurotoxic. We don't use that particular ingredient at all, we use just the agarine. And it's a long acting of binds to where GABA would bind on the receptor. And then hanokia binds to a separate site. And then TRO-Z also has six other ingredients that are working on all different other pathways that are related to sleep. Because if you can get somebody, David, to sleep better, almost everything else is going to get better. So one of the first levers that I always try to pull for people is to get their sleep better. And TRO-Z is great for that, because it's leveraging that GABA system the way we described it. And then, of course, long term, we're trying to work on diet lifestyle behaviors to actually match what we're doing from a supplementation perspective. Yeah, that's so good. And you mentioned alcohol, you mentioned kind of strong sleep medications. And people often turn to alcohol, they turn to very strong sleep medications to cover up basically to help them overcome the symptoms of low GABA and chronic brain inflammation. Very true. Yeah. And when it comes to alcoholics in general, it's very classic for some, some families have various genetic aspects that make their GABA levels low at baseline. And this is why there's more alcoholism, excuse me, alcoholism in those kinds of families, because when they drink, they feel normal. Yeah, exactly. It relaxes them. That's what a lot of people will say. I need to drink because I need to feel relaxed. Yeah. And because if your glutamate levels are higher than your GABA levels, you're always going to be on edge compared to somebody that's not. And but the good news is that there's very natural ways and very supportive ways, but alcohol is certainly not one of them. Alcohol binds too quickly to the receptor and too tightly. And binds as a result, so tightly that it increases all this GABA to bind. You feel good, but then as soon as the alcohol, the molecule comes off the receptor, you don't feel very good at all most of the time. And then you have the, the tolerance and the withdrawal independence of it. And, you know, Xanax, Ativan, Valium, these drugs do the same thing. They feel good for sure. But then they have that risk, as I just mentioned, sleep drugs, the same thing. And so, I mean, what I, what I always think about for when I tell my patients is like, look, we need to find ways for you to calm down your nervous system, but I can't tell you to calm down. That's not going to work. Like if anybody's had, you know, everybody's in a relationship, like you tell your partner to calm down, you're not going to get the reaction you're looking for. I know this, you know, being married almost 20 years and having four children. If I tell my wife, you know, I think you should calm down. Like, no, that's not going to go well, you know? And so you have to find ways to bring the nervous system down in a very intentional way. And with support. And, and I can't tell a lot of my patients just to go meditate, go do breath work, go do yoga, you know, try to take a walk around the block and be hard as well. So if you can give people the experience of it, that's what's really, really transformative. And then, okay, here's some trochom, take this 15 or 20 minutes later, you're going to get this, you know, this down regulation, you're going to feel that. And that's where there is. And then when you know where there is, you can do this with breath work, you can do this with yoga, you can do this with meditation. But if you don't know where there is, it's difficult sometimes to get there. And, and the other part of this, David, that's important is that you have to always remember that you don't want to just calm somebody's nervous system down without giving cellular support at the same time. And this is where, you know, immediately, how are you going to support the mitochondria, the part of our cell that make energy? Because mitochondria are super stressed in modern society. 94% of US adults have some element of mitochondrial dysfunction, also known as metabolic dysfunction. People that are listening may have heard the word metabolic health or the term metabolic health. This is basically a term that is describing our capacity to make energy effectively, and to be able to neutralize the stress that happens when we make energy, because our cells are like gasoline powered cars, we make ATP, our energy currency, but we also make water and carbon dioxide and these things called reactive oxygen species. The ROS themselves are okay, they're needed, but if you have too many, you don't have enough antioxidants around to neutralize that, it causes a lot of stress. And so 94% of US adults don't have the capacity. So if you start taking the gas pedal off, you start going on the brakes, and then all the cells don't have anything to work with, you know, because they don't have the capacity, you're not going to feel good. And I was talking to a lady just a couple of weeks ago with mold, with lime, and it was having a lot of stress for her practitioner, you know, wasn't trying to hurt her, but gave her something to calm her down and she crashed, right? Because the system needed that stress load to be able to maintain where she was. And as soon as it came off, there was no cellular support there. So I'm a big fan of looking at this in the short term, what are you going to do now? And then long term, what are you going to do to help optimize the mitochondria and really keep it sustainable, you know, and sustain it. So short term, I like, you know, I've had a lot of success with a particular compound called methylene blue, which I know you've written about. And then the long term, it's about optimizing, you know, vitamins, minerals, nutrients, cofactors, gut health, neurotransmitters, hormones, all the things that are involved in, of course, many different things in the body, but certainly in mitochondrial function. Yeah. And especially when you're pulling somebody out of a kind of a deep cell danger response, like you were talking about, you know, somebody that's healthy on a regular basis, some hormetic stressors, like exercise, for example, can be so powerful for mitochondrial function. But you know, when somebody's in a deep cell danger response, dealing with mold, lime, things like that, like you were just talking about, some of these supplements can be like really helpful to kind of move shift them into a place where they're able to produce proper amount of mitochondrial energy. And I like how you started with really focusing on GABA and sleep, because we know sleep, you know, we're producing melatonin and melatonin is not only a sleep hormone, but on top of that, it is the number one antioxidant to help clean and protect the mitochondria. So if we're able to optimize melatonin production through, you know, proper sleep hygiene, really good deep sleep, getting that GABA enough GABA in our system to relax and calm us and infrared light, right? So getting out in the sun on a regular basis, getting good sun exposure, but also we can get red infrared from, you know, a red light box or from infrared sauna. All of that will help help get the melatonin up, which also helps protect the mitochondria. Well, I just wanted to take a moment to interrupt this podcast to remind you that Americans are spending an average of 90% of their time indoors. And most people don't know this, but indoor air can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air. But now you can breathe easy with air doctor, the award winning air purifier that eliminates 99.99% of dangerous contaminants like allergens, viruses, smoke, gases, mold spores, and more. This is what I personally use in my house because air doctor was voted the best air purifier by Newsweek. So it's no surprise that 98% of air doctor customers agree their homes air feels cleaner, safer and healthier. And unlike other purifiers, air doctor captures invisible particles 100 times smaller than standard HEPA filters. You can head to airdoctorpro.com, use the promo code nutrition to get up to $300 off today. And air doctor comes with a 30 day money back guarantee plus a three year warranty. That's an $84 value for free. Get this exclusive podcast only offer now at airdoctorpro.com. That's A-I-R-D-O-C-T-O-R-P-R-O.com, use the promo code nutrition today. But what are some of the other important elements of mitochondrial recoupling and getting the mitochondria to function properly? Well, I think you nailed it where sleep is really a big piece of this, David. We do a lot of our detox throughout our whole body, including our brain through the lymphatic system in the brain. And so working on optimizing sleep is a big one. And that's why leveraging the GABA system can be so helpful, not only for just getting the system to calm down, but when you get the system to calm down, especially when you're sleeping, your mitochondria can do some repair as well. And with mitochondrial recoupling, the way I think about this is that there are so many things that are affecting mitochondrial function in a negative way. And I think the first one, and we've talked about that a lot, is this sympathetic spiral for sure. So breaking that, calming that down is absolutely essential. In addition to that, you have to think about other things that are causing significant mitochondrial stress. And the other big one out there is insulin resistance. And so if you have high blood sugars for long periods of time, your glucose, the glucose levels, that becomes a substrate. It's the number one substrate that our cells, our mitochondria, use to make energy. So if there's a lot of glucose around, you're going to make a lot of energy, but there's also going to be a lot of waste products. And the system's going to start breaking down because you don't have enough capacity to neutralize the waste that we make when we make our energy. So insulin resistance is a big one. We're also seeing a rash of really a lot of other things like chronic infections. So if you have chronic infections, like if you have long COVID, chronic mold, chronic Lyme, these are all mitochondrial destroyers. They have significant dysfunctional capacity. They have a significant, they cause a significant dysfunction on the mitochondria itself, especially the first couple complexes on what's called the electron transport chain, which is the part of the mitochondria that helps you make energy. And if those first couple complexes don't work very well, you don't have the capacity to make energy very well. There's also toxins in our environment. There's pesticides directly, there's pollution in the air, in the water, in the soil, everything, you know, heavy metals as well. Think of like arsenic and cadmium and lead. And these are all things that are in the soil now, or in paints that are getting in our cells and making like a lot of damage, especially in a mitochondria, even medications that we take on a regular basis, things like proton pump inhibitors, like your Prilosex and Protonix, and even other ones that actually deplete nutrients, like birth control pills actually, can deplete nutrients that can cause mitochondrial stress. And so you have all these things that are happening. And so the first thing that I think about here is let's support the mitochondria now, no matter what's going on, because sometimes it can take a while to downregulate the nervous system and get out of sympathetic to find why somebody so, you know, is having so much toxic exposure or to really address infection. So but supporting the mitochondria now can go a long way at helping. And so you mentioned a couple of things. And I think, you know, circadian rhythm is a big one. So, you know, trying to yoke yourself to the sunlight, getting sunlight in the morning, trying to get some get see the sunrise and seeing the the sunset in the evening, trying to time your meals appropriately can be helpful and try to get rid of at least the the processed food in your diet and anything that's going to be highly inflammatory. I know that there's a lot of different ideas of what a perfect diet is. And there's no such thing. But in general, you know, trying to clean things up can be helpful. That's why all the extreme diets work vegan carnivore keto, they're all going to work for a short period of time is that you're not eating the standard American diet for a little while. But this is where I found David that actually this compound, oh, even though it's, it's a little bit unique, and it's a little bit, you know, controversial called methylene blue can be very, very helpful. Because our cells are like, as I mentioned, gasoline powered cars, we make waste. But what methylene blue can do is it can compensate for the energy production capacity that we may not have, and also can compensate for the detoxification capacity. It's called a redox cycler. So it ends up helping with energy and detoxification. So it ends up being more like a like an electric powered car compared to a gasoline powered car. And so you can use very low doses of this as long as it's clean. And as long as you know where it's getting where you're getting it from, because the problem with methylene blue oftentimes is that it could be contaminated with heavy metals, which don't make the system work better. Academy of lead mercury and arsenic, which again, you don't want those right. And so methylene blue, as long as it's clean and low doses around four or eight milligrams, maybe up to 25 milligrams, those sometimes a little bit higher, but that's kind of the range that I see, you get more energy in the system without causing too much stress. And that is transformative for people, it can be that bridge from where they are now, which made me know not that great to where they want to go, but where you want to go and optimizing, you know, vitamins, minerals, diet, lifestyle, behavior, it can take a while, it could take four months, six months or longer in some cases. So what's that bridge? I found that methylene blue is a fantastic bridge. You can also add red light and sunlight to it, by the way, because methylene blue actually synergizes with red light from sunlight around 680 nanometers. So you get this fantastic combination where you get the synergistic energetic aspect of using methylene blue at these low doses. So that's what I found is really key for people, is give them support now, you know, while they're on the longer path of finding out, you know, the path that they need to get to where they want to go. Yeah, and methylene blue became more popular during COVID. People started experimenting and doing research on its ability to help people, you know, when somebody had long COVID, they were basically stuck in this sympathetic spiral, this cell danger response. And so that was being studied to help people come out of that sort of long COVID issue. Now, there's been some controversies in the natural world as well. I haven't looked too deep into it all. Can you address those? I know them all, of course. Yeah. I mean, the first one, of course, is this natural world, as you described, right? So, methylene blue is a fully synthetic compound. It does not come from the earth. This is an argument or a conversation, I should say around, is everything sympathetic, synthetic bad for us? Is everything natural good for us? So let's get the second part of this out of the way. Is everything natural good for us? Of course not. Arsenic is natural, right? Mushrooms that you forage for that cause liver failure and death, which I saw in medical school, are also not things that are good for us, right? So there are certain things that are natural for us that are certainly not good for us. And then when it comes to synthetic, well, if you're diabetic right now, you're taking insulin, that's synthetic, by the way. That's how you're still alive. If you go to the hospital, like I had to do a couple years ago with my son who had a cellulitis tracking up his leg and I didn't take him to the hospital, he could have died if I didn't give him antibiotics, right? And so we sometimes need synthetic things because we live, well, in a synthetic world. I live under synthetic lighting and synthetic food for everything else, processed food, et cetera, right? And so, where Methylene Blue kind of falls here is that it is a synthetic compound for our world now, which is not ancestral. I don't know any many. I met one guy just recently that's homesteading, but he still has electricity, right? So for the most part, most of us don't live like we did 30,000 years ago when this human biology was formed, right? And so that's one of the big controversies around Methylene Blue David is that it's synthetic. But I think I feel very comfortable using it with my patients, my father, who's a chiropractor for over 45 years on Long Island. He uses a ton of it in clinical practice. Back in the 80s, he was militant against anything conventional or medical. But now he's kind of understood, right, that there is a place for all of these things. And that's kind of how this goes, right? I'm not hoping that somebody takes Methylene Blue every day for the rest of their life. I'm hoping that it could be a bridge for them that really can help them across really some really nasty waters of getting better. But over the long term, they need it less only when they have more stress. Like, for example, going on an airplane, which is a low oxygen stress, and it also causes more inflammation. And Methylene Blue can work just like oxygen in your cells and actually prevent a lot of the symptoms you have of jet lag as a result of that. Even if you're in that 6%, that's metabolically healthy, you're going to feel better when you get to your destination if you have Methylene Blue on board. So that's the number one controversy. I mean, there's more. The second is well, is it because there's some arguments out there that Methylene Blue only works because it also increases serotonin in norepinephrine? So Methylene Blue is a monomine oxidase inhibitor, meaning that it increases norepinephrine and serotonin. So there's some arguments out there that's the only reason why people feel better taking Methylene Blue is because of that. That's complete malarkey as the word I would use. There is some aspect of, there is an increase of neurotransmitters for sure, but it's dose dependent. It's very mild in general. And then of course, people with mental health issues like depression, anxiety, like a major component of this is mitochondrial. And I had a colleague of mine reach out just a couple weeks ago and he's like, you know, Doc, I started taking Methylene Blue and my anxiety went away. And I was like, well, well, that's why is that he's that anxiety all his life. And then as soon as he started taking Methylene Blue, this wasn't, you know, he'd taken, he'd tried SSRIs, he tried all the stuff over the years, right? No, that stuff works. But as soon as you start getting mitochondrial support that he needed, then his cells were able to calm down and start making energy more effectively. And so that's another big piece is, you know, the question about serotonin. And the risk there, people have to, as I should mention here, is that if you're taking an SSRI, if you're taking a medication that increases serotonin, there could be a combination where you do increase serotonin more taking Methylene Blue. Now, the risk that's talked about in the literature is something called serotonin syndrome. But there really is no evidence that happens with oral Methylene Blue combined with these medications. That being said, I do recommend that if you're taking an antidepressant with serotonin or reuptake inhibition or norepinephrine, that you work with a provider to make sure it's safe. The other argument that happens in the natural world and the performance world is that you shouldn't take Methylene Blue if you have normal mitochondria, if you have optimized mitochondrial function, because it's going to make your mitochondria function worse. This is also something that's not panned out in literature and not panned out in clinical practice. I mean, the other aspect that's important here to remember is that only 6% of U.S. adults are metabolically healthy. And so 94% I think could benefit from using Methylene Blue, at least on occasion. Okay. And the more optimized you are, the less that you're going to need Methylene Blue on a regular basis, because you're already well optimized, right? So like, I have some of my friends that are in the endurance world, they use Methylene Blue like two or three times a week tops when they have bigger days of endurance or bigger days of stress as to kind of give them some additional base or if they're traveling, for example. But if you're pretty well optimized, you shouldn't need to take Methylene Blue all that often. There might be a reason to take it at higher doses, like around 50 or 70 milligrams or higher if you have an acute infection, for example. Or if you have acute trauma, concussion, like I have all of my patients keep the higher doses in their medicine cabinet just in case because at higher doses, it's a great, it's a fantastic antimicrobial, especially antiviral. It's a fantastic support for rescuing mitochondrial function in acute stress, like acute concussions, even stroke and traumatic brain injury, I guess that's the same as concussion. But acute stress, there is some evidence that using Methylene Blue immediately at the higher doses can be transformative and save tissue. And so I have it in that capacity too. That's interesting. Now, how would it compare with other mitochondrial support, like Coenzyme Q10, PQQ, even creatine, which can have some of these similar benefits? Those are all great. Now, I use them all the time in clinical practice, but they're not something that immediately starts shifting biology. Usually, creatine maybe, but certainly PQQ and CoQ10, these are things that build up in the system as you're able to shift out dysfunctional biology and optimize using more CoQ10. The thing about using vitamins, minerals, and supplements is that oftentimes it takes about three or six months to start really shifting cellular architecture using supplementation. So this is a bridge. Think about Methylene Blue as something you can use in the short term, because it's going to help now. And then long term, you can use it less often. But I use them synergistically all the time. It's not like I'm just using Methylene Blue and that's it. It's typically optimizing by understanding what's happening at the cellular level. And then from there, using it as a synergistic tool, as I'm using vitamins, minerals, supplementation, dietary changes, exercise, etc. Yeah. Yeah, that's good to know. 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They have Affinity PX, a cleaner, smoother energy boost than caffeine, L-theanine, which is an amino acid that promotes calm energy and attentiveness. They have Alpha, Alpha GPC, a new tropic for enhanced mental processing and vitamin B6 and B12 for balanced energy and mood. These are truly clean, plant-powered pouches designed to sharpen your mind and lift your energy all without caffeine, nicotine, or a crash. 90% of users saw significant improvements in their overall focus levels. Calm, steady, flow state focus, enhanced memory, smooth energy and mood balanced. Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch, delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use the code Jockers to get 15% off at TakeUltra.com. That's TakeUltra.com for 15% off with the code Jockers. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Now, let's transition to hyperbaric oxygen. I know you're an expert in this. I actually have a hyperbaric oxygen chamber in my house and I've been a big advocate of that as well. What are the benefits here? How do hyperbaric oxygen chambers work? Why is oxygen so critical to get deep into the cells? What kind of chamber do you have? You don't have to tell me the brand, but what pressure do you go to at the house? I think it's like 1.4 ATM. It's not a medical grade. It's the soft chamber. Yeah, nice. I've been involved in hyperbaric medicine for almost 15 years now. It's a fantastic technology. I really think the best way to think about it is that it's an accelerated healing performance and it really can heal wounds from the inside out. As you think about wounds, we're not just thinking about trauma. We're thinking about wounds of aging, wounds of degeneration, of inflammation. What happens immediately when you go into a chamber is that you're flooding the body with a lot more oxygen. You do this by combining increased atmospheric pressure, simulating the pressure you feel under a certain amount of seawater, and increasing the amount of inspired oxygen you breathe. Then by the combination here, you're driving more oxygen in circulation up to 1200% or more depending on the pressure of the chamber itself. When you do that, you're decreasing inflammation. You're creating a place where there's more oxygen in circulation so you can save tissue that might be under stress, for example. If you have like an acute heart attack, acute stroke, acute traumatic brain injury, you can reoxygenate very quickly. You're going to save tissue. You also get stem cell release. Your immune system starts optimizing itself. You get decreased swelling and you get more lymphatic flow. This is all happening immediately. Then long-term, you get what are called epigenetic changes on your DNA, which are how your DNA shifts in expression. You get more blood vessels that are created. You get decreased inflammation. You get all those stem cells maturing into really awesome new tissue for you. Your immune system is more optimized and more. I use it a lot in the respect of understanding that if there's an acute injury, hyperbaric therapy is fantastic. It's going to help heal the system faster. There's no doubt about it because you can educationally throw stuff at the wall to help you. Methylene blue could be one of those things that I use a lot actually. Also vitamins, minerals, nutrients, lots of different things depending on the situation. But long-term, if you have a long-term issue, like you've had a stroke three years ago or you have mild cognitive impairment or chronic infection, these aren't things that happened right away or just immediately. These are having over a long period of time. What you're really thinking about here is, well, how can you optimize the system so that you can really make hyperbaric therapy work better? Because if you flood the body with a whole lot more oxygen and you don't have enough capacity to make energy effectively and you don't have enough capacity to detoxify from the stress of all that oxygen coming in, you're not going to feel good. You may not be able to have the capacity to really have the benefit of being in the chamber. This is where I usually like to say it's good to take some three to six months ahead of time and optimize your physiology before going into the chamber. Then you can really benefit from it over the long term. You can combine it with doing laboratory testing, doing supplementation, other technologies and practices that can be helpful. Then watching your hyperbaric program over time and seeing if it's the most effective for you and not being relegated to the same pressure or the same time every single time you go in. Sometimes you need to be dynamic about it and really see what's going to be best for the client. My hyperbaric practice has evolved over the years. It used to be everybody gets into the chamber all the time. At this point, I consult with people all over the world, understanding that the framework is important. If it's an acute issue, yes, we can use the chamber and we can see people heal faster. Hands down just happens. If they have more of a long-term issue or they want to be in there for more longevity purposes, then it's really, let's get that ground game really well optimized as best as possible ahead of time. Then using the chamber, then you can use other tools and technologies along the way as well and it can be really, really beneficial. In the context of what we've been talking about with mitochondrial function, that's just a big piece of it here because hyperbaric therapy can actually improve mitochondrial biogenesis. It can actually improve your capacity to deal with inflammation, but it's not going to do a great job if you're already under a lot of stress and don't have a lot of support. That's the context here is that hyperbaric therapy is a fantastic tool and I think using the chamber can be great. Knowing what type of chamber to use, how much pressure to use, these are nuances that are important too. In essence, the deeper the pressure, the more systemic oxygenization you're going to be getting. The miles of the pressure, 1.3 to 1.7 is more of a neurologic pressure versus 1.5 to 2.4 is more of a systemic pressure in general as well. The soft chambers that go up to 1.4, that's going to be more of neurological benefits. Usually that. I think of them also as in a day-to-day optimization chambers. Getting recovery, little bit of performance benefit, good for jet lag. Great to combine with other therapies like red light and sauna and cold and things like that. I think the main challenge I see is that a lot of people don't really know how to use these things in integration very easily. How do you use them? I have a company called OneBase Health that does help with all of this. We have a connected system software that we've been working with and then have a bunch of different technologies to help people do that better as well. That's of interest. People can check that out too, for sure. Yeah, that's great. That's kind of your framework, your health optimization, medicine framework. Can you go through that a little bit in detail? So, health optimization, medicine, and practice is home hope for short. It's a non-profit organization that's training practitioners on how to optimize health rather than focus on disease. People have heard of functional medicine, which is the root causes of illness, which is great. But there really is no specialty that works on the root causes of health and focus on optimizing health first. Not that I have a lot of functional medicine practitioners that I love and their dear friends of mine and I refer to them all the time. What health optimization medicine does a little bit differently is just set the disease aside and working at optimizing somebody on a cellular level, specifically on the metabolomic level, which is looking at small molecules that are involved in the real-time working of your cells. This is things that are coming from outside of your environment and things that are inside your cells as well and then kind of crunching all that together into the science of metabolomics using another big word called the holobiont, which is a study of the holo organism that is you. You are not somebody else. You're made up of trillions of cells that are not human and you also have human cells too. The idea with the holo-biont and metabolomics is that you study the holo-biont using metabolomic data, is a short story, and then optimizing people to the ages of between 21 and 30 years of age, as that being the optimal level for all of us to be living. You don't want to be normal for 45 or 50. You want to be optimal for your age and that means moving and shifting your gut hormone nutrient networks to the 21 and 30 years of age range. This is not about longevity as more about health span as how we see it with what we call morbidity compression at the end, which is you live as long as you can, as healthy as you can and you die as quickly as possible when it's your time, whenever that might be. Health optimization medicine is the framework that I use in my clinical practice as a foundation of what I do with my patients. It's a nonprofit. It trains practitioners as well. You can check that at homehope.org if you're a clinician interested in more training. Absolutely available. We have continuing medical education credits as well as the CMEs available for those that are interested. For my clinical practice, health optimization medicine is the foundation. I do lots of consulting on hyperbureic medicine as well. Again, I try to shift people over to thinking about, well, maybe hyperbureic therapy is not right away. The answer, maybe we should optimize things first, especially if there's more of a long-term play here that we're looking for or a long-term goal, I should say. Then we use tools, technology, supplementation along the way to help patients, help patients truly optimize over the long term. Yeah, that's good. That's good. You also talk about psychosocial and emotional reset and utilizing psychedelics. Can you talk more about that? Well, what it comes down to, David, is that when we talked about the sympathetic spiral here, oftentimes supplementation and nutrient optimization is only going to go so far. If you are in a sympathetic spiral, I can give you supplements to help you short-term, but long-term, it's not going to do the trick. Whatever you go, there you are is the saying for a reason. A lot of this sympathetic activation from that, I call the top down. If you have trauma as a child, if you had deaths in the family, if you had bad relationships with your kids or your spouser, these things need to be addressed. If they're not addressed, these are the elephants in the room proverbially. What I always recommend with my patients is what I always try to understand with them, I guess, is to where they need to go there. If it's pretty severe, I'm very open with them that, look, we can help you. I can help support yourselves, but if we don't also address some of these things in the closets, then it's not going to get better over the long term. Psychedelics are one of the ways that I've seen be very helpful, especially the legal ones like ketamine, for example. I sent a lot of my patients to get ketamine therapy, because I found over the years that resetting that nervous system in a safe way, using something like ketamine, could be very, very helpful with the right guidance. It's not like you want to go to the dude that just hung up his shingle that, oh, yeah, I'm an anesthesiologist. I also can give you ketamine. Like, no, you want to go someplace where there's good therapy, there's good integration, where you can have a good experience. Where I live in Colorado, there's also psilocybin therapy that's now legalized or at least decriminalized here. That's also possible, and I've seen some good benefits there as well. It doesn't have to be psychedelics. It could be things like EMDR, it could be good therapy. There's lots of different other avenues, but I think the key is that if you're not looking at that sympathetic activation long term as to why it's there, there's only so much you're going to be able to do. And these are my patients that I know within the first 30 seconds to five minutes if I can help them when I first talk to them on the phone. And David, I'm sure you know this situation. I feel for them. It's like, I've seen 10 doctors, nobody helps me. I'm sensitive to everything. I can't take anything. No matter what I do, I feel like I get worse, right? This is all true, all true, right? But no matter what I will do now, giving you supplements, changing your diet, it's not going to change anything. It's not going to, right? Because you're already in this sympathetic loop. And no matter what I do, I mean, I've seen people that should have gotten better from everything that I've done over the years, and they don't, right? And it's almost always because of the sympathetic activation. And Hyperbaric Therapy is my first window into this because I was like, well, why didn't you get better? Like, you should have gotten better. You had a concussion. We put you in the chamber. You should have gotten better, but you didn't. Why? Well, it's because you were so clamped down, so stressed out, that there's nothing that was going to get done. And this is like, when our conventional colleagues will say, well, taking supplements is like making yourself expensive urine. They're right if you're in this sympathetic activation, and that's not addressed. Yeah. Well, I just want to interrupt this podcast to tell you about this great company, Troscriptions, which uses the most novel delivery method on the planet, the Buckle Trophy. They are extremely fast acting, typically 15 to 30 minutes, because they infuse their ingredients directly into the cheek mucosa, an area that is highly vascular and very close to the brain. This approach bypasses the digestive system altogether, leading to faster onset and higher bioavailability compared to traditional oral supplements, which can take up to two hours to make an impact on your health. Their products are formulated by a team of four physicians who've used their real world clinical experience to develop extremely effective health optimization solutions. Troscription sources high quality ingredients globally, things like methylene blue, cordicep and from cordicep's mushroom, GABA and many others. And they subject each of these to rigorous testing to ensure unparalleled purity and potency. And each troche is meticulously calibrated and scored, allowing users to easily adjust their dosage to meet their individual needs. All their products are crafted in the United States, adhering to strict quality standards to ensure superior efficacy and safety. They have great products just like just blue, which improves cellular health and energy. Trocom, which promotes relaxation and stress relief. Trozee, which makes it easier to fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling rested. And Tro Mune, which supports immune health, increases deep sleep and fights infections. There's a completely new way to optimize your health. Give it a try at troescriptions.com forward slash Dr. Jockers or enter Dr. Jockers at checkout for 10% off your first order. That's T R O S C R I P T I O N S dot com slash Dr. Jockers, Dr. J O C K E R S for 10% off your first order. Clean energy, clinical grade, you'll feel the difference. So the psychedelics help rewire the nervous system for people that are in kind of this really strong cell danger response, what you're saying. Yes, exactly. Under the right circumstances, with the right support. Yeah. Yeah. And how does that compare to like, for example, like vagal nerve therapies, right? You know, things like the Apollo neuro and yeah, stuff like that, that helps to activate the vagus nerve. Yeah, I know David Rabin for a long time with the Apollo and and it's a great technology. And the vagus nerve is our winding nerve coming out of the brain that gives us our parasympathetic tone gives us that rest digest. And so if you can, you can activate it, you can see that parasympathetic tone go down, increase so that you're going to feel that relaxation stress response. It's all going to be better. Okay. That's a great initial solution for people, right? As long as they're more supported cellularly, right? I know a guy that's coming out with a book called the God shot. And it's going to be about using an injection into your sympathetic ganglion in your, you know, in your neck, because that can actually reset your nervous system too. Now, that is a, it is a course way of doing this, but it does work. But wherever you go, there you are. Okay. So over time, do you keep getting these shots in your neck? Do you keep doing the vagal nerve stimulator? Like, yeah, sure. I mean, especially the vagal nerve stimulator, but like you should be thinking about, okay, well, what is the underlying piece that I'm not seeing here? Right. And it's difficult because I have patients that I was just talking to some, they refuse to look at this stuff. Like they're like, I'm not going to do that. I don't want to deal with my trauma. I don't want to deal with this. And like, I get it. I don't, I feel for people, I really, really do. I will give them as many steps along the way as I can. But if there's something really deep seated there, and that's not addressed, your body, you know, is keeping the score as the books and other things have well proven out, right? And so, it's so important, I think, to think about this in context. And that's how I always try to bring it back is like, okay, yes, big on nerves, no stimulators, Apollo is a great kind of thing, get your aurora ring, you know, get your hyperbaric chamber. Yeah, yeah, that's great. But what's, let's, let's, let's zoom out here a little bit guys and gals, right? Because if we don't zoom out and go, okay, this is what we're looking to accomplish for six months from now, 10, 20 years from now with your health. How do we get you? What's the roadmap? Like, what are the steps we can make to make this easier? What are the bridges we can create for you? Right? But then, and then how do we kind of get in there and make those changes? And you're getting more and more energy is a big one, right? As soon as, as soon as started people feeling like they have more energy, they can start doing the things that they may have not been able to do beforehand, like change their diet or walk around the block or get a divorce. It sucks. But like sometimes you need to have enough energy of activation to be able to do certain things. And one of the main examples that I give of this is that your brain, apart from your reproductive organs, your eggs and sperm have the most mitochondria per cell. But right after that is your brain. Your brain has a huge amount of energy demand, like your neurons have thousands of mitochondria per cell. And it's very difficult to think in nuance if you don't have enough energy for your brain to make. You think in black and white because it's easier. Okay? So thinking in nuance, having these like nuance discussions is very much more difficult if your brain doesn't have enough energy, right? But as soon as you start getting more energy, you can start thinking more in that nuance. You have enough energy of activation to be like actually making a big decision, a hard decision. Like that's a big deal, right? And so the big things that I see in practice, energy and anxiety, that I want more energy, I have too much anxiety, I'm wired but tired, etc. So if you can address those now while you're working on long term or even middle term kinds of things, that's where really we see the benefit. So that's where the products of transcriptions have come in like into play dramatically in my practice, using some trocom and trozii to get people to calm their nervous down and calm their nervous system down and sleep. And using some methylene blue, we have something called just blue, which is great for just improving mitochondrial function. And we have another one called blue canotine, which has a little bit of nicotine and caffeine in there, which small amounts are fantastic for brain function, also anti-inflammatory, also give you some stimulation. Your brain fog gets better, you feel better, you are able to do more, right? And so it's so important to give people these ways in, right? And there's other ways to do this too, of course. We've created the product specifically. I'm a physician, Dr. Ted Oshakosa, who's the founder and pioneer. We are physicians. We made this company as physicians to help our patients now while they're on that longer path. I wasn't interested in supplements when we first started our nonprofit at all, actually. I was interested in helping people long term. Then I was like, well, we need things that are going to help people now along the way. Why don't we make really good things that we can stand behind, that we use in clinical practice, that we use with our families, that we use personally. I have a whole bunch of them over here that I used today. We just got off an airplane last night, right? And so that's the deal, is that I didn't get into this world of education, of being a physician to sell supplements directly. No, it was to help people right now and long term. And this is what Torscriptions really has developed. And I hope people can come check it out and learn maybe how it can help them along their road. Yeah, that's really good. And you guys use the buckle trochee method, which is different than just swallowing pills. Can you explain that? Yeah, buckle trochee are super cool. I don't know if you've played with them all, David. But when you look at a capsule, for example, it's only one dose. And you either have to take that dose, you take more of that dose. You've tried to open up a capsule or even a tablet. You can't really break tablets that easily. And so what a trochee is nice for is it's divided. So you can take a quarter of it, a half, three quarters or full. It's scored in the middle. And so as a result of that scoring, you can take what you want. And then it's buckle means it goes between your upper cheek and gum as far back as possible. And that buckle absorption is a couple of things. It's faster. So it's going to start feeling it within about five to 15 minutes for most people. And it's also the ingredients are going to be more bioavailable, meaning they're more potent. When they go through digestion, they lose their potency. And if also if you have like, if you have digestive issues, it might even be harder to absorb it. So having that buckle absorption is great. Now the only caveat to this, or special, special exception is that methylene blue, if you dissolve it in the mouth, is going to be very, very blue. Your mouth is going to turn very blue. It's a very strong blue color. So most people will swallow it as a result on an empty stomach. If you want it to hit you faster, you can dissolve in the mouth. You can use some hot liquids, brush your teeth, you know, your your mouth will be blue for a little while, not forever. And also remember, when you take methylene blue, your urine is also going to turn blue. So don't be surprised that your urine's a little bit blue or neon green if you've had your B vitamins in the morning. But those are the main reasons why I used a buckle trochee faster onset, more bioavailable, easy to titrate, methylene blue being the exception, you can swallow it on an empty stomach and still get the same benefits overall, just a little bit slower than if you dissolved it in your mouth. Yeah, that's great. So guys, check out Dr. Scott's company, Trescriptions, just go to Trescriptions.com, you can check out. He's got tons of great resources there, tons of information. You'll learn about the buckle trochee and all the different products he talked about as well. So be sure to check that out. And, you know, he he talked a lot about the parasympathetic edge. That's the new competitive advantage in life. And I love that that idea and that philosophy, really leveraging that parasympathetic system to recover better and to optimize our health. Any last words, inspiration here for Dr. Scott and anything that we missed? As I was saying earlier, David, thank you for having me. This is always a pleasure. I'm going to tell you that are listening to calm down, but I'm not going to tell you to do that and get you stressed about it. I gave you lots of different ways to think about how to do this. Because I promise you, if you're listening to this, that you're probably not spending enough time in your parasympathetic mode, which is your edge. We don't realize it, but if we can cultivate it, you will find that is a superpower. Think about your Navy SEALs out there. Do you think that they're in sympathetic mode when they're on operation? No, no, no. They are in parasympathetic. They are dropped down. Because if they were too sympathetically activated, they wouldn't be able to do the things that they needed to do. And so I'm not saying that we're all Navy SEALs out there, but we want to act like them. We want to be the person that can go, you know, go out in the water and almost die drowning as a Navy SEAL would, and then go down to the beach and take a nap, right? Because they have this amazing capacity to dynamically oscillate, dynamically balance, dynamically go from sympathetic to parasympathetic. We call this at my company, Dynamic Equanimity, which is the idea of maintaining your composure, whether things go up or go down. But this is a superpower. And it's not easy to do, but it's possible. But you have to find ways to get there now. And then long term, you can build strategies like meditation, mindfulness, you know, breath work that can really get you there anytime you need it. And this is not like, you know, this is not rocket science. It's been well described. And yeah, I would love people to check out transcriptions. If you're looking for a way to help you now, if you're a clinician, check out our nonprofit as well, because we have training that might be interesting. If you're a clinician, also, we have a practitioner side of transcriptions where we have unique products and we have a unique ecosystem that you can come check it out and learn more. And then also, if you're interested in hyperbaric medicine or the integration of technologies together in a really cool novel way, check out OneBaseHealth as well, OneBaseHealth.com. Yeah, that's great. I like that term dynamic equanimity. That's the term. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, I always say, you know, I was an athlete growing up and now I'm an occupational athlete. And really, everybody that's listening is, right? My wife is an occupational athlete as a mom and homeschool teacher, right? For sure. So no matter what you're doing, you want to perform at your best. And so really having that parasympathetic advantage is really all about optimal daily performance so you can be your best, right, and be able to not get too overly excited, but, you know, at the same time have enough energy to do everything you need to do. And so you guys are offering some great solutions to that. Again, check out Troscriptions.com to learn more about the products that Dr. Scott was sharing and also OneBaseHealth, right? That's the other main place for them to check out. Yeah, or this last piece will be on my... If you're looking for just one place to go, my website, my name, Dr. Scott Scher, d-r-s-c-o-t-t-s-h-e-r-r.com. You'll find my hyperbaric consulting, my health optimization practice, Troscriptions, HomeHope, and OneBaseHealth. That's everybody and everything. Great. Well, Dr. Scott Scher, you're a wealth information. Really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks so much and everybody be blessed. Well, that's all for this show. And I want to thank you again for spending your valuable time with me today. And if there was something you heard in this interview that you have questions on or you want to dive into deeper, then DrJockers.com is the best place to go. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider taking just a quick moment and giving us a great review. Your reviews help us influence more people and transform more lives. And if you took something valuable away from this episode, then please share it with someone in your life. You know it can help. We'll see you soon on our future podcast. Be blessed, everybody.