Tree Mailbag!

Everybody! Everybody! Everybody! Drop your buffs! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Bup! Drop your buffs! Welcome back to Drop Your Buffs. I'm Sean Ross. And I'm EvanRossCats. And we're off schedule. What is this? Sometimes something gets into Evan and he's like, can we record a podcast? I'm like, about what? He's like, I don't know. Well, I feel like because we don't have like a rubric that we're following when we do like our, like, catch up, sometimes it's like we miss things. So like I had texted you about one of the songs from Robin's new album and you were like, oh, I meant to talk about that. You know, so like we don't have the topics listed, but I feel like there's a lot of like pop culture to catch up on. And we have no formalized setting. I almost feel like we need like a monthly, like a culture catch up or something, where we just like kind of like go through the topics. But I don't know, it's like, it's a survivor podcast, sure. But I think at least for me. Ostensibly about survivor as the Washington post called it. Famously said. But for me, I'm like, I enjoy when we get to talk about things. I was gonna say adjacent. Sometimes they're not even adjacent. Sometimes they're just have nothing to do with it. It's just Gation. Isn't that great? Yeah. Well, do you want to talk about the Robin album? I do, but I first want to just expound on something that we had spoken about on last week's after show, because I feel like it's kind of had like a continued life. And that is this conversation around the women players on Survivor 50 being under edited. I do feel like, although I obviously fundamentally agree, I do think it's becoming a little bit of a steam rolling in the respect that this show doesn't owe us anything. And also this show has always been a certain way. So I think for, and by the way, I am not taking fault with Angelina, whose statements plural, I very much support. But I'm starting to see a lot of like former players who otherwise aren't really speaking out about much kind of galvanizing around this and also just random people that are talking about this. And although I fundamentally agree, like we need to see more of these women's stories on this season, I don't think it's like, I don't think we need to get picket signs out about this. I just feel like this is sort of how the show has been throughout time with various groups, whether it be people of color, gay people, women, etc. And this is the show. And while I want the show to do better, I think the sort of like pile on I'm seeing is kind of like, we're galvanizing around like the women of Survivor 50 being under edited. I just feel like on the one hand, I'm like, there are more important things to talk about. On the other, I recognize, hey, this is a moment where we can look at something that's fundamentally off about this season and talk about it. But when I say steamroll, I feel like it's just gaining a level of momentum that like, it's just sure we can clock the fact that the women are under edited. I don't know what we like what we need to, if we need to have like a million discussions about it in the hope of what am I off here? A little bit, I think, because I feel like just because this is the way it's always been doesn't mean that it's the way that it should be or that we should accept it as a way to do it. Accept it as a fandom or as players in the game as say like a Chrissy or a Tiffany, for example. I think there's also the conversation we had on the after show, which is we don't know what's left on the cutting room floor. Well, that's I guess what I'm trying to get to that is which is sure if there was a world in which it's like there were these secret scenes coming out. And we were like, holy shit, all of the secret scenes are these incredible moments with the women that are not being included in the main show. I feel like then we could have more of an argument, but right now it's a lot of the belief that because we're not seeing this, it means that the editors literally went through and prioritized the men over the women. And I just don't think we have enough to really go off of. But I agree with you. Like, yeah, I would like to see more of the women included in the show. I just feel like the way I'm watching everyone make this into something. I'm just not sure what the end game is and the reality is what would happen if the editors would have come forward with an edit that was more even. And it turns out the footage is just remarkably boring. Then we would have a different conversation, which is about casting. Yes, fair. I think that the issue as I see it is that survivor has always had a problem around how they depict women, how they cast women, how they edit women, particularly female winners. And this is just sort of like another nail in that coffin, maybe not the final nail in that coffin, but just another one. And often these conversations get brought up. I think about Sarah Lasina in Winners at War talking to Jeff at Tribal Council about why do you only call men by their last name and never women and sort of this conversation around Jeff in particular favoring the men in Survivor. And there was a moment where he was like, you're right. Like, you clocked me. I'm going to try to do better. He starts calling her Lasina for a little bit. And then nothing happens, right? And I don't think that anything's going to happen, but I think making noise does matter. I think that the conversation, as with many things, is just going to die down and nothing will change. But I think it's worthwhile having the conversation. So to be clear, I agree with you that I think it's worth having the conversation. Ergo, why we spent as much time as we did on last week's After Show, having the conversation. I am not against the conversation. I'm very much for the conversation. I think for me in watching the conversation continuing and having every podcast sort of discussing it and weighing in. And like I said, former players and whatnot, I agree with you that, you know, the only way in which change is made in any system, whether it be Survivor or otherwise is for people to speak out. But your example just now of Sarah Lasina and nothing actually changing just goes to show you that like this show has always not only operated operated a certain way, but shown you what it is. And so at what point we kind of just say, do we stop expecting the show to do better and look towards other avenues to seek out better forms of representation? Say the traders, for instance, which, you know, we get so many depictions this season was basically like the girlies plus Rob Rauch. So I guess it's just like, I'm not, I'm glad that we're having the conversation. I guess I'm just not sure like really, I maybe it's defeated that I feel, but I'm just not really sure like what to do with the conversation other than to like identify the fact that like, yes, the women are being under edited. Yes, they have historically been under edited. Yes, the women throughout time have been depicted a certain way and flattened in a way that the male characters are allowed to just be so much more fleshed out. All of this is true. And I don't know what to do with all that information other than complain. Well, isn't that the basis of our entire podcast? I mean, we've spent the past five years recapping the new era and complaining about it to what end, because sometimes even if something isn't going to change, I think just having the conversation and complaining about it can be cathartic to those who want the change. Yeah, I think for me, I would be interested in hearing from Emily or D or some of the women on this season who have had a more fair edit if you want to characterize it as that. To get their perspective, because right now we're hearing from the aggrieved party parties, which makes sense, right? Like they're aggrieved. Angelina, Chrissy, Tiffany, but I would like to hear from other women who don't feel as though or actually maybe they do feel but haven't expressed that same sentiment. I would like to hear their perspective because right now it just feels like, I guess for me in order to like kind of wrap my mind around this is like a broader conversation. I need more people's perspectives here because right now it's just a group of people who feel they were wronged speaking out, which again, I feel the need to say as they can and should. But it would be good to hear from others and I still am operating off of the mindset of like, so are we to believe that, you know, Chrissy, for instance, has this amazing storyline that the producers just decided to bury. And I also feel like using the whole like poop and shit as the sort of like, I like making it seem like as though that like the editors are bad for including that. Like, I'm very pro farting and pooping and shit. No, that to me is like, it diminishes the value of the argument by saying like that, that that which it's basically trying to characterize that is like, stupid things that aren't character driven or what have you been doing. It's like, well, no, we actually we love stuff like that. That's not the problem. The problem as we articulated in our last recap is the over emphasis in telling this particular season, as though in this last episode, for instance, that Christian, Ozzie and Rizzo are the three people controlling not only the game, but the narrative and that's where I think we are frustrated as viewers. But again, it's like, tail as old as time on the show. Yeah. And like, not too much on the shit everybody because that has been the highlight of the season so far. So that's not the best example to point to when we're talking about this. Chrissy recently did another tweet where she was talking about how she pointed out a couple of things that coach got a lot of screen time for that she did the same like she allegedly gave nicknames to all her tribe mates. Granted, it's a little bit different. I think they're leaning into coaches history of giving nicknames and nighting people and like that is sort of encompassed in what we understand coach to be so it feels relevant to the story of coach on 50. But there's an example where she's not necessarily pointing to those big moments that everybody loves like that's not a great argument. But these smaller moments, sure, there might be something there. But I don't know. We have some questions about this. So we'll talk a little bit more about it. Because what we're doing here, I've been said is Evan really want to hop on the mic. And so we put out a call for voicemails. We're going to do a little bit of a mailbag. We heard from a bunch of people have selected some voicemails, and we'll respond to them some survivors, some not survivor related. But before we get that to that, I want to come back to the conversation about the Robin album. Yeah, how you feeling about sexistential. Yeah, I'm very thumbs up on sexistential. I have tried to not consume too much about it just yet, because Robin's an artist that people feel such by people I mean her fans but also critics often have such a like a spiritual connection to her and her work that extends beyond just the music I mean a lot of it is like her process, her worldview, her positioning with in the music industry, her positioning within pop, her age as it relates to female artists, there's just so much there. So I think I'm in this age of like just trying to, you know, consume it as a body of work. It's also hard with Robin because it's constantly kind of comparing I guess this is the case with many artists but you're constantly comparing her to her other work and it's all of her work. There's so many. I was gonna say eras but I almost feel like it's like phases of Robin's existence and I'm quite fond of like many of them for very different reasons but I think I hold the self titled album in particular high regard because at that point in her career she felt more underground and I think dancing on my own and body talk was something of like a the mainstreaming of Robin which is not to say that qualitatively it went downhill but just that like it's a different experience of Robin for those that were like with every heartbeat Robin heads and then those who like came aboard with like a hang with me. But I would say on the whole I'm just loving it. I think it is a grower. There are some I would say like first listen to give it like a number I think I was like a 6.5 out of 10 on my first listen and my initial reaction was that this feels a little too akin to honey, which was her last, you know, last album that she dropped. And then upon really like sitting with the album listening to it sequentially because three of the nine songs were already out so really it's just like we already heard a third of the album. Anyway now sitting with it. I think I'm up to like an eight out of 10 maybe maybe even an 8.5 and I think the standout tracks like are some of her all time best. So really really pleased with it and happy for her for what I think is like a very bold and I think that it's an album that could have rested on laurels that she chose to kind of push push as Robin loves to say and I'm loving it. How about you? Well that's the thing about Robin is I feel like she always is pushing. I don't think she's ever really rested on her laurels like there is always some evolution and some I've been more interested in than others. I know you're a honey fan like honey never really landed for me in the way that it landed for others. To be clear, I am honey the song fan. I'm not a fan of honey the album. Oh I thought you were a fan of honey the album. I have to tell you I was a fan for a long time and then this summer I have like this very specific memory of Billy and I on the water we took in order to get out to shelter island. You take a you drive onto a boat and then like you know you cross the water in your car. Yeah and I was and Billy doesn't know Robin at all. And so I'm like playing honey blah blah blah we get to honey which always like in my mind evokes girls and I'm so happy and then like we're listening through to the rest of it and I just was like not only do I not love honey I like don't like honey. Skating review. Yeah but I feel similarly but all there is one song in particular on honey. I'm just like I think it's a human being and then because it's in the music because it's in the music is laborious but I love baby forgive me. And then missing you is like fun but like missing you feels like a B side from body talk. And yeah. Yeah I think that what a lot of people want is just like body talk to continue and to continue and to continue and I appreciate that she hasn't done that I always think of her similarly to how I think about Bjork like she's just never been like that. Never gonna do that thing you wish she was gonna do again that's in the past leave it alone there's no reason to do sort of the lady Gaga imitation of the height of my career because it's never going to live up to those things so let's try something new this feels the closest to body talk that has come post body talk and that's significant but it also does feel still like an evolution. Can you think of an example because I'm glad you brought up Gaga and mayhem and I think a lot of the sentiment around mayhem was that it was a successful attempt to reheat nachos which is to say that although it was considered by many to be a very good album it very much felt like it was existing in the shadow of you know Gaga at her best form. Can you think of an example of someone that was able to like feed that to recreate the magic without it feeling like a derivative version. You're really putting me on the spot do you feel like what do you think spice world would be. I don't think that I don't think it's comparable at all in what sense well what are you suggesting the spice world is. I mean they had two albums as a five piece that were two years apart I guess what I mean is that spice will be an example of like it so successfully created a sound that was like. It was as good as the first but they were too close together because I think there is a decade apart we've had some some highs and lows in between yeah we're returning to a certain sound. I can't I can't think I'm sure that there's an incredible example that's escaping me right now I do think it's been done. I just can't I feel like Britney Spears glory would be more akin to like the mayhem yes eating of the nachos yeah and I think I think those are a dime a dozen it's the it's the comebacks that. Almost like a almost like when share put a belief like what a comeback or Madonna with confessions something like that that's a good one yeah yeah. But yes I hear what you're saying about like the fandom in general always sort of chasing the high of body talk and I feel like it's worth noting that we've only gotten honey between body talk. Well there was also the Royce hop EP. Wasn't that monument on it when was that wasn't that from like I was. Yeah it's post-blog I love monument love monument. What in fairness that's only I think five songs. Yeah and honey's only nine like these are all like very brief albums. Oh my god do it again is so good. Okay interesting so that album you're referring to which is called do it again came out in 2014. Yeah a couple years after body talk. Yeah yeah and body talk three was 2010 yeah you're right. So anyways loving I do think particularly talk to me and light up our top tier Robin songs like okay top tier. Wait you said talk to me and light up yes but I got to just put my favorite song on the album because I think light up is like obvious like it's like how can you not but for me sucker for love. Is just triumphant are you aware of the lore of blow my mind. No do you know blow my mind is a cover of her own song from 2002. Well I know I know that song you know I was wondering about that she's she said I saw a clip of her she said my mind yeah same song. And so she said she's always wanted to cover one of her old songs from like her pop days and so she chose blow my mind she's performed blow my mind before in her concerts is like. A surprise throw away song. It didn't occur to me. Wow. Oh cool so it is a cover she said I wanted to cover blow my mind because I've always loved it and as we were doing it I realized like the lyrics felt a little dated to me so she rewrote the verses. Wow so cool. Okay then I feel like that part towards the end of really real when the radio dial starts to like wild. That is so that's so Bjork. Yeah I mean for me there's no I wasn't into the song existential as a single but I feel like it works on the album it works on the album it's funny when Billy and I were listening to it. I went to skip it and he was like go back. She's always had a song like that on her albums that very much is a Robin staple like I think of can you chew on bitches on yes Robin I think about like criminal intent. I was just gonna say criminal intent. Fem bots like there's always she likes to have fun in that way and I think as an album track I think where it didn't land was releasing it as a single and performing it on late night. No it belongs as a as a album track that we're having fun with as we're you know grooving through the album. Yeah but yeah I mean I'm having a ton of fun on it I wish there was more to it but I know Robin has spoken out recently about the fact that she is a fan of shorter albums and I do think there's something to be said about. Leaving people wanting more which Robin consistently does but I think it's a really strong body of work and my hope is that. She won't stay away for as long because I think that when you have an album as and by the way if people that don't know body talk is an album but it was released in three segments body talk one body talk to you and then. But I've never understand the drop your buffs audience knows. Okay. But have you always this is like okay Kevin Hazelhurst our new co host of drop your buffs on the Australian survivor request. Now he's listening to all the episodes right so he wants to hear when his name comes up and so he was listening to was it our after dark last week whenever it was we were talking about the comeback. And you said let me frame for everybody what the comeback is and Kevin texted me and he's like if you're listening to drop your buffs you know what the comeback is so I have to push back at that actually because. While I don't disagree with you I get dinged all the time this is more shut up Evan but all the time about not properly contextualizing a thing that I'm speaking about and so while I can appreciate if this is drop your buffs you know blah blah blah. I actually have to imagine their segment of our audience that don't know this and do find the information useful. I think it's a little bit like you get annoyed not you Kevin but you the audience you get annoyed if you know about a thing that's being explained and then there's also the segment of the audience that gets annoyed when people talk about a thing without explaining it. So I feel like it's a little damned if you do damned if you don't I don't think it's crazy that I'm explaining that body talk was released in three parts. Do you want me to like go through like the album credits that might be a little bit in the thick of it but like. Anyway what I was going to say is have you I've always been really annoyed by the fact that body talk the album is ostensibly body talk three in that it features new songs but then it takes the quote unquote best of from body talk one and body talk to to formulate it as I hate that I hate that they did an album I hate that they did a compilation album for body talk. But why didn't they release a body talk three they did no they didn't but I did I was there there was a body talk one of body talk to a body talk three after body talk three they released body talk the album. Which was an edit of the three EPs. Okay so do not mess with me I was there I lived through this. All right. Okay so to be clear body talk one has 12345678 tracks body talk to 12345678 tracks then body talk three only had four tracks one of which is just the sped up version of indestructible which was first released on body talk to. You just need a more song which then they made a compilation album out of yeah okay you're right. I know I'm right. Wait okay we have all these voicemails to get to I also wanted to touch down on the comeback episode to. Well I want to rewind the tape I think I think you were a little too hard on the comeback. On the podcast or IRL. On the podcast. Oh okay. Like I just feel like while I think that your criticisms are obviously valid I feel like when I was listening to it I was like I my take away is that you really didn't like. The comeback season three premiere and like my understanding off the mic was that you liked it but had certain things that you didn't like love about it but I just. I liked one half of it I liked the first half of it the second half of it I didn't like. Okay but the weight of your dislike. Felt heavy the weight of your dislike well when you're waiting for something for over 10 years and you are underwhelmed by it you can it can feel disproportionate you know your response to it. So yes an immediate sort of like I felt let down after watching it. Now we can we move on to episode two which I'm like like I'm nine out of ten on. Yeah but then I'm like are we gonna hop on the mic next week and you're gonna watch episode three and be two out of ten on like is this just this just. Hard to say. I can't predict how I'm gonna feel about something I haven't seen. Okay I want to be ten out of ten I want to be twelve out of ten. But I only have the material in front of me. Can we go back there just to cap off the Robin conversation what would you give sex essential on a one to ten. Right now I'm probably sitting seven point five. I think we're close certainly I see that it's a grower and I think as I get to know the songs I'm gonna fall in love with each and every one of them. Okay but right now I'm finding myself sort of like skipping between the ones I want to hear the most which is just like that's that's so. Okay and then with the comeback so you said that you'd give episode two and nine out of ten. Give me the comeback season three so far. Like I'm supposed to rate it. Yeah one out of ten. I. Seven six point five or seven out of ten. Okay continue. Oh right well I wanted to touch down on the comeback episode two because we have Valerie cherish playing the traders. What a moment. Anything to say on it now. Well you brought it up. I know I was bringing it up to get a reaction out of you. Yeah I mean it's what you know what it reminds me of it's what we were just saying about Robin is how like with the thing with Robin is that you just kind of want more and I think that was a great example of like a cut away. I think it was what 20 seconds on the show and we're seeing it all through someone's phone and all I wanted was a secret scene that was anything it could have been a round table just anything like I wanted the opportunity to watch Valerie playing traders. Well it's so funny because for so long you've been saying you know it would be great a scripted series of the traders like that is how the traders could really succeed because you could really make it wild and also you know fix the boot order problem that the traders has. And here we have like dangled in front of us the opportunity for a scripted version of the traders now as I understand it from the comeback Valerie was voted out on the second episode I think and so it wouldn't be very long but I would still like to see it I want to see. I like that now I'm imagining a version of season three of the comeback that's just the raw footage of the traders castle. Wow which would be so good and the raw footage of her confessionals and how great would that be so fun and you know what's funny so when I was watching this scene I immediately thought about wild cunts from and just like that to remember Miranda's famous meme. And how we were like you know struggling with that because we were like this wouldn't actually you know be a meme this isn't how memes work yeah. The funny thing is there is something about the secudro as Valerie cherished delivering the line stressful that actually it does have it is like an earworm her specific delivery of the line. So Valerie that I was like I can believe that this would be like a moment that people would be talking about and I think it specifically works in the context of the traders because the traders is the kind of show that enough people are watching and talking about online. Whereas like the Miranda plot was supposed to be like this random woman on the news said something and like the whole world's talking about it where it's like I feel like if an actress like Valerie cherished went on a show like the comeback and had a moment like this. Excuse me sorry when I'm sure like the traders and blew up her game like this it would totally be like position for virality. Well as we saw on the newly minted Claudia Winkleman show Lisa Kudrow was a guest and said that her performance on the trader that Valerie's performance on the traders was based in part on Linda's performance in season three of the traders UK and then of course they brought out Linda. Because how could Claudia not and Linda is a great example I mean the way when Linda's head turned when Claudia said traders I'll meet you after that moment continues to live on people are still posting that image and I feel like that is very akin to Valerie cherished saying stressful. Yes and I gotta just point out how great the costuming is Valerie's costumes on the traders top tier and how amazing. Yeah we get well just the inclusion of Trixie to begin with is just so great. Yeah I think that was amazing I also loved the zoom call that she had with all the executives and when they were pinning themselves and when they did the little jazz hands and acknowledgement of her jokes was just incredible. The Mrs hat. Oh my god so good so good let alone Jane Fonda Jane fucking Fonda and also not for nothing they shot that at Soho house that is the second time that Soho house has ever been used for a film or television show do you know the only other time it was used. No that would be sex in the city is that because they own the Jerry Hallowell. Well so it's funny you are quizzing me on this thing that I don't have all my information on yes they shot that but that was the New York Soho house I believe that the there's a chance that they shot what would they have shot at the L.A. Soho house because they were staying at the standard. So the only time I'm aware of the sex in the city ladies leaving New York is to go to the suit. Well they go to L.A. and that's when Sarah Michelle Geller enters the picture but they're staying at the standard. I think that you're I think that would be correct. So I think this is the only time that they've I think they shot at. So who else twice once in New York once in L.A. but anyway just how great I think there are a number of things that this show does really well but I think the fact that it just like constantly shoots on location. I remember in season one when Valorant June have lunch at the Ivy they're at the Ivy I just and also when they go to Palm Springs they literally are in Palm Springs. I think it's really just great to see a show like this when they say that you know we're going to so house you feel the vibe of what it's like to be at Soho house as opposed to being on a soundstage right. Okay well I'm locked in I'm going to watch the rest. I do have the screeners for the whole season. Crazy. First of all like boyfriend to the pod was like don't watch them without me and I'm like okay so then he comes over this weekend I'm like okay like let's watch him like get my laptop out because I can't watch it on the TV and he's like you can. There's an app. There's an app. Oh yeah this changes everything. I'm not watching it on the laptop and I was like yeah fucking sitting on these for a week and. There's a specific WBD screener app. Oh I gotta take a break. I gotta take a five break. Okay. Okay good to know this is game changing. All right. Well should we get some questions we are 30 minutes in. Yeah. Am I going to get heat for my opening remarks for sure. Okay. You got a heat on the after show last week somebody was like not Evan I wish I had the comment. Oh I do actually. Hold up. The Ur case takes on the after show where women speaking out are a little sus. If Angelina and Chrissy didn't speak out we wouldn't be having the conversation at all. Okay. Also him siding with Law Roach and basically giving qualified immunity to all judges on reality comp shows is weird especially given all the ANTM stuff coming out. Well those are two separate. I know they are two different things. Someone just had it in for you. Okay fair enough I'll take it. By the way this is my thing. Obviously I'm totally fine with people feeling how they feel. It's like the freshman thing is sometimes feeling like the thing that people are globbing onto is is misconstruing what you're saying and then you kind of wonder did I say it poorly or is somebody choosing to just kind of take their own idea of what I said and I don't know the answer to that. Are you talking about the Law Roach part. No I just mean in general when you come out the saltier take because the reason I felt the need to keep saying and I is that I don't want it to be misconstrued to think that I don't think Chrissy or Angelina should be speaking out about this. This isn't my point. I'm more speaking about the fact that I think people are seeing that this is a trending topic and hopping onto it to like sort of juice it in a way that I think it's Chrissy and Angelina's conversation to start. I think it'd be something really interesting to bring up at the reunion and bring it up to Jeff or as I said earlier have other players weigh in but all of like the former players and just fans of the show coming forward and clocking it to me it's just I feel again it's like a hamster wheel to me where I'm like I don't know where we go from here. Should we re-litigate like other issues we have with the show. Yeah why not. In some ways I feel this is the point of our podcast. Fair. But let's go we're going to get more on this so. Great. Here we'll dip our toe into it with our first voicemail. Hi Sean and Evan this is Max from Cleveland. I've been thinking of the two instances this season of Survivor bringing up controversial final tribals without too much nuance and incidentally undermining winners of those seasons. It's interesting since Survivor has tried to be more aware and protective of the way discourse plays out but these two instances came across as pretty naive. We'd love to hear your thoughts on how the edit approaches such controversy as well as nuance in general. Thank you. So this is in reference to the flashbacks and conversation around Sophie Clark's win in South Pacific where I think that at that first not journey but that battle for supplies it's just sort of stated like oh yeah coach you totally deserved to win South Pacific. And then shots of that which that's one issue. And then of course Charlie's entire storyline which is very much presented I would agree with this caller it very much is presented in a way of like Charlie deserve everyone knows Charlie deserved to win season 46 undermining Kenzie's win. And I think it is interesting when you look at that like I certainly had a reaction to the South Pacific conversation because it was very much rewriting history and I wish that. I don't know whether it was in his intention or not but I wish that there was some talking head from Aussie saying like oh I'm telling coach what he wants to hear right now because Sophie Clark did deserve to win South Pacific and she did win South Pacific and she's in fact she's one of the great winners of Survivor in my view and so to sort of be like oh no like we're starting out 50 episode one or like 10 minutes in and it's like oh by the way coach was meant to win that season. It's like no he wasn't. Sophie was meant to win that season because she played the best game and got the jury votes to win. Well could what they perhaps mean is that coach was meant to win that season based off of the edit that the producers crafted. I don't think that that's what they were saying. Okay but I'm not and I'm not saying they were. I'm just saying is there an interpretation when we say like meant to win. Like it's fair to say that like Russell was meant to win Samoa in if you look at the show as it was conveyed to us the viewer. We were not led to believe Natalie White was going to win Samoa which is not sort of like speaking ill about Natalie White's game but it's just there's a version of events that play out on the show that lead you to a specific conclusion. In some instances you think that's like purposeful like the show wants to goop you and in other instances you're sort of like wait I think that and again this is sort of I think a lot of the frustration with the editors where it's like oh they just don't know how to edit women. Yeah that would be a fair way to look at it except that the problem for me that I can't get over is that this conversation is happening between two people who were there and the game so I don't think there's nobody else weighing in on. It's not like you being like oh yeah I totally thought coach was going to win that season it's Aussie telling coach you deserve to win South Pacific. Coach telling. OZI telling Aussie telling coach you. And you're saying that you could have used the talking head of Aussie being like I'm just placating. Yeah okay I am with you because then without that it's it's one Aussie saying that which I don't love from our dear friend Aussie and and something I also just don't think Aussie I just don't think Aussie thinks that I really agree yeah and so I would have loved that context but then. With the show presenting it in that way without any kind of commentary of that sort it feels like the show is co-signing that oh yeah coach was supposed to win South Pacific. Totally fair I think that one thing that an instance like this could use is like this is a great thing to write down for now as a question for the reunion and unfortunately I don't think the reunion is going to give us questions that are like this specific. But it would be great to be like an episode one Aussie when you said this I want to give you the opportunity now to either double down or explain yourself and then we at least have clarity on how he feels. Cause I'd be really interested because like you just said I don't think Aussie actually thinks that but let's hear it from the horse's mouth. What about this after 50 we get Aussie on the pod for his second interview on the pod and we surprise Colin Sophie Clark. Love. Now that's a moment. Yeah. All right. But I mean can I just add to this I think this is like one of the really interesting things about survivor but I don't think it's necessarily unique to survivor which is the way a lot of shows but really specifically reality shows. Have really complex relationships with their early eras the ones that made them popular because I think that there's been this sort of reappraisal at the landscape of how reality competition specifically well I think reality in general how the how the you know the genre came to be. And I think there's like a tension between the fact that like the house that built reality is a condemned house if you will. And so a lot of these shows trying to distance themselves from their past while also having to reconcile with the fact that their past are often the most popular and memorable versions of themselves. So they go to like these great lengths to like try and celebrate their past while also rewriting it. And I think that they can be largely successful in that because it's really only like the super fans that are going to go back and be like wait a minute that's not how it played out to a lot of people Aussie saying this in real time will either affirm something that they felt 10 15 years ago whatever or that will be their new understanding of how it was because they haven't thought about it since. So I think it's a little I think it's both insidious on the part of these shows but it also sort of highlights the fact that just oftentimes and we saw this like we see this with top model like as well where it's like in looking back at that documentary all of the most traumatic moments that played out in the documentary happened to be the most iconic moments from the show. And there's just something that I don't think we and I say we is like the collective populace in terms of those who watch these things when they first aired. I don't think we quite know what to do with that because for us we can disavow it now all we want. But that doesn't really acknowledge the fact that like these moments are burned in the brains of so many of us for a reason. Yeah and I think that this. Okay there's a couple things I want to say one I think that this sort of thing about undermining Sophie Clark's win does speak to a faction of the fandom. I was there I remember that Sophie Clark's win was received in a lot of ways similarly to Parvati's win in Micronesia where people weren't happy. They felt and it's not it's not even that they felt necessarily that coach should have won. I think people were hoping Ozzy would win. And so I remember a lot of disappointment but those people who were disappointed by Sophie Clark's win are the same kind of person I think that are disappointed by Kenzie Petty's win in forty six. And so when you've got the two things coming together on Survivor 50 it's sort of reaffirming that faction of the fandoms belief around what makes a great winner of Survivor and it's often I think partially rooted in misogyny. And also in like also partially rooted in the way that they had it female winners. Yeah. And the other thing I was gonna say about the reframing of historic moments and there's things that like obviously haven't aged well and. People remember those things they talk about them differently now than when they happened. There's also a lot of forgetting other things that have happened. So here's an example in season thirty nine with the sexual harassment conversation. It was it's presented as though it's the first time it's ever happened. Of course we just rewatched Survivor Thailand season five. And I think it happened in a very severe way there and nothing was done about it and we sweep that under the rug. And another moment that just occurred to me this past weekend as I told you boyfriend of the pot is suddenly like on a survivor journey. He finished Survivor Micronesia this weekend and he prior to that finished Survivor China. There's a moment in Survivor China there is a challenge where they have to wrestle each other off of platforms in the water and in that. Fuck I can't remember his name but like one of the guys gets fully naked to give himself an advantage in that challenge because he thinks maybe people won't want to touch him. They do and like James just chucks him off but very reminiscent of Richard Hatch getting naked in the challenge where there's close contact because he thinks it will give him an advantage. We talk a lot about the Richard Hatch moment we never talk about the survivor China. That's interesting. It's also worth noting just in talking about the Sophie Ozzy coach versus the Kenzie Charlie. It's like in the scheme of things it's being brought up because of the circumstance on Survivor 50. I don't think anybody is going to be thinking about season 46 of Survivor and like the Maria and Charlie vote. It's like that is so small potatoes to me in the scheme of like iconic survivor. Right. At least with the Sophie Ozzy and coach it's like there are three formidable players on a very memorable season. A lot happened in that season. Good hand bad but it's a very memorable season. Whereas like if you were to be like what season 46 of Survivor I would be like oh it's the season Kenzie won and it's the season where Maria betrayed Charlie. But like is that like epic. It's like. Don't forget it's the season we saw Hunter the inside of Hunter's house. The inside of Hunter's. Oh loser. We're just disturbing that was. Yeah. Okay. Let's move on to another voicemail. Hey Buffy's this is Jake from San Diego. So in the earlier seasons there used to be like one to two sponsored rewards per season right. You'd get the car reward. Sometimes Visa would sponsor like an excursion reward type of deal. And nowadays we don't see that like we just have Applebee's every couple seasons. And this is not shade to Applebee's but there's definitely a difference between winning like an Applebee Shark Bowl versus like a new Ford Tacoma or whatever. That's probably not even a Ford car. Anyway. So I'm wondering do you guys think Survivor still gets these sponsorship offers and they turned them down or is are they just not bringing in the sponsorship anymore. Right. So if they have the well run dry what do y'all think. What do you think. I don't know. They you would think that they have to be getting. People approaching them first. How does it work. Do you think that they approach companies or do companies approach CBS and say hey we'd like to do some product placement. I don't know how that works. But it seems hard for me to believe that sponsors wouldn't be interested. I agree with you but I also think it's hard to believe that they would be turning down sponsorship opportunities. I think it's interesting in that like and again I don't know by the way I just want to preface by saying I think that CBS probably has their relationships with a lot of these companies locked and not just relevant to survivor just like I think that they have like CBS is going to have a relationship with like Kellogg's because of myriad things like whether it be just you know all kind of partnership opportunities right and left. Also add on to the fact that you have like now look at social media tie ins these things. And the idea that like a lot of these shows have a lot of these products have their own channels now to advertise. Whereas like that wasn't the case before so like I know like IKEA just did a sponsorship on survivor Australia where it's like these days IKEA has a popular social media channel with which they can target. Ikea users but to answer the question I don't know the answer. I think it's really interesting. I'm more surprised that brands don't do. Oh God it's the word again. Is it ancillary. I don't know because we've gone back and forth so many times that it's honestly to go either way I say ancillary. I'm surprised that more brands aren't doing ancillary content with players from the show. So the example would be like like if you're like equinox. Okay. Right. And you have Jonathan on this season. Like I'm surprised why and I don't know if it would be CBS selling this but I'm surprised why you wouldn't like have Jonathan do equinox or he could do like an ad for like you know like a David protein. We're happy like I'm surprised they don't use more of the players or just like like I don't know like you could obviously use Christian for stuff for what have you. Look at me naming all the men or like I'm surprised they wouldn't have like Angelina have done like a jacket spawn. Let's do like Chrissy was brushing her teeth with that thing. Let's get her an oral be there you go. So I don't know if they're inbounded outbound but I'm surprised if not on the show that they don't push the talent out to do more partnerships. Yeah. Well I'm surprised that there just aren't more sponsorships on the show. I mean we've got sponsorships for Billy Eilish which I don't think anybody's paying for. We've got a big sponsorship coming up for Mr. Beast which there may have been there may be some trade off there because of course there will be a survivor episode of Mr. Beast and I think there's a lot of speculation that Mr. Beast is going to up the prize fund possibly with money from Mr. Beast Corp. I don't know. Well Elizabeth Warren would like a word. Elizabeth Warren's investigating the whole situation and you know what this may be the thing that takes it all down. Wouldn't it be funny if Mr. Beast got cancelled ahead of this episode airing. It would I would literally die like it would be so incredible. But back to your point about Australian Survivor I didn't want to say this is like that Australian Survivor is a show that is breaking in like when it's airing airing numbers under 500,000 viewers granted Australia is a much smaller country than America. So the viewership you know is the ratios are off but it is a much smaller audience on a much lower budget and at the merge they did a reward challenge where they gave away a brand new car just a random not a random reward challenge it's a merge but it's mid season. Usually at the merge there is some kind of giveaway they have done like hundred thousand dollar cash gives a giveaways they've done fifty thousand dollar giveaways they've done a car they've always done a car. And here this last one what an incredible sponsored reward where they were going to have a feast of iconic Ikea meatballs. Like what a great sponsorship like that's so fun so in the tradition of Casa Desharmine and those things were always like yes we're rolling our eyes like we're rolling our eyes at the celebrities and and. It's annoying we rolled our eyes at Casa Desharmine but we had fun with it. Yeah I don't know we rolled our eyes. I mean I think I was rolling my eyes when I came up but I was like lol like rolling my eyes like OK so this is where we're going we used to we used to give away a car but now we have Casa Desharmine but I love Casa Desharmine. But I also think the Ikea meatballs is a great example to use because most of us know the taste of an Ikea meatball. So when you see it offered up you have your own relationship to it whereas when they just offer up like the random you know you're going to eat like skewers or what have you or jambalaya or whatever Jeff says these days. It's kind of like you don't have that same idea where it's like when it's Applebee's when it's something that you have a specific taste for it just hits different. Now back in the day like were the rewards always just food or something shelter related. Or car. No there were often there was often things where you could go get cleaned up so not necessarily a spa but just in rewatching some of my Cornesia with boyfriend of the pot on the weekend they had. Rewards sponsored by herbal essences where they love that shower or I think it was at a waterfall or something and then they can shampoo. Yeah but these days they're barely on the island so it's like but they really need that. So they get there and it's like all right. But yeah it's usually it's usually food spa or experience. I also think it would be fun to add more cars and stuff because I think it would complexify the game of these days specifically to be like well so and so already want a car you know so how fun would it be for like a trip for the family to Disneyland Paris. Love. Yeah. Or you could also do you know like on big brother I think it's big brother where they like offer like you can do a set visit for a CBS show. Yeah it's like why not do a co brand. It's like you know CBS is putting to put Joe Hunter on something they like that for big brother because it's. It's happening in the now so we get to go see their visits like it's all like I think the cross promo thing works a lot better. Let's do a live season of Survivor. Let's do it. Let's shake things up. All right let's go to the next question. Hey guys it's Kelly from Raleigh North Carolina. I was wondering if you had any survivor players who are kind of like the antithesis of the Azur Vellani award people who. You enjoyed on the show but then their social media presence kind of ruined their charm after and turned you against them. Thanks bye. The reverse Azur Vellani. Great question. What a great question and I'm scared to name names. I was going to say because we're not behind the paywall show. Let's take New Era out of it because it's most of the New Era. So that kind of case is there anyone from back in the day. So basically their social media presence. Oh I've got one that I'm comfortable naming. Okay. Andrew Savage. Oh he is so fucking annoying on Twitter. He will literally like relitigate in such detail events from past seasons and mind you in his defense it's he's being asked about it. But he is just so like willing to take you know a random Twitter user. No avatar. The username is just numbers and you know detail day 17 in the Pearl Islands and you know whether or not there was chocolate on the shelter. It's just he's a lot. Yeah that's a really good example. I'm trying to think if there's somebody else like because when I think about when I take New Era out of it because honestly the answer is most the New Era. Yeah that's yeah that's who. And when I take them out of it there's people who are online from the old era and they are posting stuff that I'm rolling my eyes at but it's almost charming how like out of touch it is like a great example and I don't think he listens to this but it's like Kobe from a palau. He is like he's going into like Facebook create mode you know when you see a Facebook status that has like a graphic behind it. He's doing that but on Instagram and posting like he's posting tweets basically to like he's writing. And then he's posting it as those a tweet to his Instagram grid. And it's like usually a bad take about survivor. But I like find it so charming how like boomerish it is that I'm giving him a pass I actually enjoy it. It's like a double double reverse as a Vellani. Got it. Other than that. No because I think. Part of the joy of this show as it once existed was the fact that most of these people aren't chronically online posting about it so that's actually like why like there's just such a such a fault line between is it fault line. Such a line between old school and new school just because it's like the old schoolers just aren't that online for the most part. And the new schoolers are way too online. They're online. They're playing survivor with each other. They're in the comments of drop your buffs posts before I know there's been a drop your buffs post. Yeah. Do you know what it tells me. It's like I was thinking about this this morning because it's like you know it's it's so us to like shit on these people. But like I'm like I think there are just so many lonely people out there in search of community. And I don't I'm not saying this in a mean way I'm saying it in a genuine way where it's like it's just interesting to me when you see these people who go and do this show. And then all of a sudden they're like best friends with all these people and like all of their social media posts are like them traveling with their former contestants are going to these fan events. And I'm like did it like did you have friends before this like did you like what was your life before this. And I mean this less to say it's like oh aren't they losers and more just like I think there are a lot of people that are just in search of something to like give their life meaning and for a lot of people it's the opportunity to either be on this show even if it's first boot. For some people it's just a podcast about this show for some people it's to become friends with a cast away but I think there are a lot of people who it's like just in search of something to give life meaning. Yeah that's deep. I also think that not everybody probably more new era than I would like to think are going into the experience with that in mind but I also think there's probably a lot of people who went into this not with that in mind. And then I can't deny that I think even though this is at best 39 days out of your life I think it's an experience that like profoundly impacts you and you probably can't help but form a community with others who have also done that. Like to give them sort of like the benefit of the doubt here like I think it's a really unique experience which also was probably shared by Big Brother contestants which is shared by challenging contestants. I think just doing something like this and then going through the ride of like watching it when you're a normal person. I think that that probably does bond you to people and you want to be around and then you can actually like genuinely enjoy the experience of being the alumni. Yes but you think about you brought up Big Brother where like that's you know 100 days or you think about the real world which had 20 plus seasons where they weren't filming that for months at a time like there are just so many examples of comparable shows in which so much more time is spent doing the thing. Like the most time you will have ever spent doing the show if you're one player season in the old school was a few weeks like a few weeks of your life. And on the one hand I don't disagree with you that like you know you can have an experience that completely you know changes you but there is a part of me that's like I'm so it doesn't have a ton of heft despite the fact that it might have changed your life. How much does a life changing event of any ilk kind of like dictate your life moving forward. Yeah but I'm asking it as a question. Life changing events that aren't reality TV shows have sort of like an ecosystem of things that keep that going. Do you know what I mean like it's like I like I've had life changing events that that really I do think about often and I keep in touch with people that I shared those things with. But there's not like reunions every year or like charity every year and maybe if there were a bad go to them. Right and also because this show has like new seasons that have watch parties and things there's all these opportunities to link up. And also not for nothing I think the fact of the show is twice a year also plays into it because it's 26 weeks. It's perpetual. Yeah like it's constantly happening. But again it's like I point to the fact that I think one of the things and I obviously think there's overlap here but I do think there's kind of like there's a fandom that is like watching it for strategy and gameplay and all of that. And I think there are people that watch it for characters and drama and like funny moments. And again not to say that there isn't someone that can do both but I find that unique about this show where it's like I think that there's different people coming to it for different reasons. Whereas I think it's show like drag race. I think it's fair to say that most fans are coming for the same flavor of TV. Hmm. Okay let's move on. Hello Sean and Evan this is Daniel calling in from London, England. My question is a follow up from the exit press from Angelina. Do you think that Survivor has ever made edits to episodes they're just about to air because of feedback they've seen from fans about the trajectory of the season so far? I know other reality shows have had to make edits because of contestants disgrace themselves but I wanted to get your view on how agile you think Survivor actually is if it needed to or wanted to edit an episode. Thanks bye. Great question. Yeah. I don't think. Yeah go ahead. I don't know the answer to this. I don't know of I can't. There's no example that I'm aware of that I can point to where I say, oh Survivor changed the edit of blank episode. The only things that come to mind are Zeke's outing by Jeff Varner and Game Changers. But my understanding is sort of like I think they realized that was an issue. They involved Zeke in the edit or at least like approval of edit of how that was going to look. But when that happened, I don't know. Was it like the week before it aired? I sincerely doubt it because they had a whole bunch of lead up time to sort that out. And then I guess the only other examples I can think of are like season 39 but again they would have known what they were dealing with in advance. The only actual evidence I have towards any of this which isn't super relevant but is with Australian Survivor. I am aware that not all the edits are in the can when the season starts airing. And so does that mean they're going to rework things? No, I've never heard of that happening. But it's not that the season is completely done and polished by the time episode one airs. Yeah that's true of any TV show. Yeah that's what I would figure. So is the opportunity there? Yes. I heard of it happening as a decision that's made as a result of some kind of fan reaction. No, could it happen? Possibly. Will it happen in this case? I doubt it. I highly doubt it but I also think we have to realize that and again this is a larger conversation about the changing nature of social media and also social media being one incredibly reactive but also social media capitalizing on one person's complaint or negative view and kind of incentivizing people to glob onto that and add into it and also formulate opinions around things that they would otherwise be agnostic about because they recognize oh there's potential for virality in weighing in on this conversation. It's why if you look at what's happening right now in the Drag Race community, basically this queen that was like a favor to win the show was voted out and the fandom is having like a full blown meltdown and people are being like is Drag Race as a brand over? Should they just cancel Drag Race and then former queens are being like but without Drag Race like would we have any queer representation and like the conversation just balloons so quickly? This to say that like while I certainly think it's reached a higher pitch than your standard sort of like survivor discourse, I don't think it's become something that has reached a point of like the majority of the fandom, the not online fandom would feel any type of way about. I think you would need like the we would need to like literally move through the rest of the season, have Tiffany win and have there be this amount of confessionals from Tiffany for us to really feel some way about but also we would need to have the show or representatives of the show remarking on it. Otherwise, this is the thing about you know Kate Moss famously said in an interview several years ago. She said never complain never explain. And so because the show has not weighed in on this discourse, it only allows for the as I said earlier the agreed party to speak out. So the only way in which this could really have like a second wave would be that if someone from production were to try and explain themselves at which point the fans could glob on and be like well wait a minute like you're saying this but blah blah blah but like right now it's just based off of an edit. Yeah, and I don't think this is anything that production really wants to touch I mean we've seen cases in history where this conversation the conversation of women on survivor and the depiction of or the edit of or whatever it might be has been called into question and survivors response has always been very very very cagey except for the one time when Jeff said to Sarah Lucina. I'm listening I'm learning otherwise it's been that very like pushback gaslighting sort of thing. There is this somebody just put these stats together I'm assuming this is on Reddit or something I don't know where it came from but it was shared in the Buffy chat. It's a very interesting stat which is the thread about the how they edit winners. Oh yeah, have you seen this. Yeah, we all see the same things because this is what I'm trying to say. I only saw I only saw it on the sub stack chat so I'm surprised you saw it. Okay, and I only saw it because it populated onto my Twitter again I'm trying to like point out this thing and I know there are going to be six people snapping their fingers. We're all seeing the same things on social media. These days specifically it's changing in real time and it makes us think that that everyone's talking about blah blah blah when that's not the case we're being made to think that everyone's talking about it. I literally sound like a conspiracy theorist right now but like there are so many instances in which someone will send me a tweet and my response will be I've seen it. Not because I'm like you know I follow all every all the people I should blah blah blah it has nothing to do with that it's because we're all being shown the same tweets. Do you want to talk about the tweet? Yeah, it basically says that there are these different formulas for how the show there's like six different categories of how they edit. So one example would be when the show has three final three women in the final and basically it will glob onto the story more often than not this is one example but it's basically the why the man lost instead of the story of the women and that can come down to when there's three people in three women in the finale But in general the show tends to either edit its males as heroes for their win and the story of this heroes journey or in the case of like a Charlie and Maria and Kenzie why the hero lost. That is like the overall thesis that I took away. Okay I feel like you saw more information than me because all I have in front of me is two pie charts. It's a thread right? I don't know it's just somebody posted two charts in the sub stack chat so that's where I'm getting this and I saw five minutes before we hopped on the mic. So I have two pie charts in front of me. So when a survivor man wins in those in 57% of the time that happens that male winner had the most confessionals in the season in 71% of instances where a woman wins a man had more confessionals than her. Which does feel significant and then you know it does get broken down a little bit more which is probably the context that you've read in a thread that I've yet to see because you know what you should have sent that to me. I apologize. All right. Hi Sean. Hi Evan. Hi Max. Hi Sophie Clark. My name is Noah. I live in St. Paul, Minnesota and there's a grand tradition of people coming to help around at camp as a reward. For example, Country Music star Zach Brown and the safety swimmers taking care of those fish in the water. I also do find a lot of dark humor in the red berets or the green berets, whatever they are. Being there for that famous episode in Thailand that infamous one and my question for you too is what skills would you bring to camp as the celebrity guest? Thanks. Love you. Okay Evan, you're getting a call from survivor. They're like, let's put everything behind us. Let's put all the drama behind us. Make an alliance here. We're going to fly you and Sean out for survivor 51 as the reward, the island of the idols and you're going to be able to help the contestants. What help are you offering? I have a good answer for this I think. Okay, yeah, go ahead. I think we go out there to talk, we sit down with them and say, okay, what's going on for you right now? And then we coach them on how to make the best TV to boost or improve or establish a brand for themselves that could mean they could become a returnee or like translate this to other opportunities. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, but I also. Could easily see like a fan at home being like, well, who the fuck are these guys? Yeah, I mean, it's a completely fake scenario. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I don't I don't think I have many viable skills. Are you are you? Yeah, you could be like, um, you could, uh, well, you can't style them because there's no clothes. Yeah. You could tell them what to do and not do on social media when they get back. No one's paying attention. Okay. Um, what skills? I don't think I have any skills. Well, you have skills just none to share on survivor. Okay, I don't think I have any shareable skills. Okay. Sadly. I thought you might pull a rabbit out of a hat with that one. Hmm. Okay. Do you want to skip ahead to some non-survivor questions? Yeah. What's up guys? It's Lydia from Minnesota and I am currently obsessed with Gabby Wendy's new show, Love Overboard. And I know Evan, you posted about it, but I was wondering if we could get like a BTP behind the paywall conversation about it. Because I think it is really good casting and I love the premise and I would just love to hear some more of your thoughts. All right. Bye. Love Overboard. I haven't watched it. I've read a little bit about it. I've seen your memes. Uh, how are you feeling? So I actually think you would be into it because it's more of a competition than I expected it to be. So basically there are 16 singles, eight men and eight women, and they play this initial game where they pair together four couples. And those four couples live a quote unquote life of luxury on the top deck. Well, the eight people that weren't selected go and live below deck and have to, you know, serve the four couples. It's upstairs downstairs. Upstairs downstairs, but basically the people downstairs can try to break up the couples by going on individual date by winning the opportunity to go on dates with people from the upstairs. And then basically that they like going to date with someone they can try and convince that person to send their current partner overboard in favor of choosing them. And if and when that happens, the person might be like competing with somebody else that they fell in love with below deck and be like, let me get above deck by like mating with so and so. I'll get above deck and then I'll, and then you and I can go on a date and I'll kick off the other guy. The people who are below deck, are they ever allowed above deck? Yeah, they mingle with people above deck all the time. Okay. Yeah. So I would say like it's not all the way there premise wise because there's some like, well, there's some logistical like, how does this work that I still and not fully wrapped around, but I will say I'm very pleasantly surprised by how like how competition focused it is. And there's also that fun element of like, does this person really like me? Or are they just trying to get, you know, out from below deck? I do think that I wish that being below deck, like was like, you get the like, I want to get out of deck. Like, like I want it to be worse. Like I want it to be like you're either on the boat or you're on an island, like survivor. Like I want it to really be like a struggle. It's like one's on a yacht, the other's life of pie. Exactly. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I agree, uh, that the casting is really great. There are some real standouts. There's been some real friction. But then like you run into this issue where like you have one couple who like they locked in from the get go. They're, you know, they're clearly lifers. And so there's nothing for them to really do on the show because neither of them are willing to entertain the possibility of other love. So like you need people that are like willing to like, even if they like someone willing to explore the possibility of somebody else. And then how do eliminations happen? You literally walk out onto two, there's two planks and then whoever the person doesn't choose, they, their plank gets pulled and they fall into the water. And they're, and they die. They die. Wow. Yeah. Uh, okay. This is exactly what Valerie Charish was afraid of with reality. Yeah, she'd be great. And how is Gabby Wendy as a host? Um, she is great. I will say there's quite a bit of ADR because it's clear that like they were still coming up with like how to explain the competition. But I think her pro... You'll sit here and explain, body talks one, two and three. You'll explain what the comeback is, but you'll drop ADR as though everyone knows what that means. What does ADR stand for? I'm assuming audio dub. R. Audio dubbing. I stand for... Alternative dispute resolution. That's right. And ADR stand for in... Automated dialogue replacement. Oh my God. Oh, so it's wrong on all. Yeah. So I think that like there's, um, there's some instances where it's like they don't show her face for long periods of time because it's clearly like, it's mostly hardly explaining the rules. I would say Gabby is an excellent host. I think if anything, the show just needs more Gabby. Like it needs to figure out a way to integrate Gabby more because the thing about Gabby is she's such a magnetic screen presence. And the fact that she's the host means she can't really like hang out with the cast. So, which is this is a good problem to have, but the show just makes you want more Gabby. Okay. Okay, maybe I'll check it out. What channel is it on? It's on Peacock. Like we famously don't have Peacock. So I'll figure out what Canadian streamer it's on and probably have to pay a fee to watch it. Okay. This is a great segue because another question for you. Hello, hello. This is Sarah calling from Chicago. I have a question for Evan. Evan and your survivor and traders coverage, especially recently, I've been noticing that you have some really great ideas about what production should have been doing to make the episodes more entertaining or make more sense. And so it makes me curious. Do you have any interest in the future of getting into television production? Like literally not a producer on Survivor, but like some other project. Is that something that you have an eye on or have ever thought about doing? Because I also feel like you've got the connections to kind of get into that world if you wanted to. Thanks guys. Wow. Wow. Before anybody asks, no, I don't have any ambitions whatsoever. Okay. I've got all these questions for Evan, none for Sean. But you know what? That's probably because I don't talk about anything. Well, maybe you need to reveal more of yourself. That's very, very kind of you to ask. I would say that it's easy to be the person on a microphone, diagnosing the problem or being like, this is what we should do to fix this. It's very easy to be the critic. It's very easy to be the Monday morning quarterback. I would definitely be interested in it, but I wouldn't say that because and it's very nice that you think that I offer interesting ideas up. It's, it's harder to say that like those interesting ideas when put into practice would give a better result. For instance, Sean and I, we complain all the time about survivor casting and I stand by that. Like it's, they're really do a dismal job with the casting of the new era, but that doesn't mean that I could do it better. In theory, I have a bunch of people that I think would be better people to put forward. But for all I know, if I were at the helm, we'd put them on the beach and they'd all flounder. In fact, you would put my cast on the beach and it would be like a 90% male edit and then like the, you know, the fans would just be up in arms. So I would be interested in this, but I don't think it's fair to say that I would be any good at it just because I can hop on a microphone and offer what you deem to be the interesting analysis. But yeah, I would definitely, I'm interested in game design, you know, but I don't necessarily know if I have like a talent for it. But I'm definitely, I would definitely be open to exploring opportunities there. Yeah. And that's interesting. I feel like the best situation to be in is, is not to start because like the way you're describing your skills as like an armchair expert is the best place to be is to go into an established property. I'm going to use survivor as the example, even though it would never happen. But survivor says, okay, Evan, we're going to hire you as a consultant. Jeff shows you the whiteboard, flips over the whiteboard and goes, here's what we're thinking. And then I feel like you would be quite good at being like, this is fun. This isn't fun to sort of like go into something that having seen what works and doesn't work and then providing advice as a critic. You know what I mean? Yes. But I kind of, thank you. And I agree with you. But also I feel like I have a lot of friends whose job is consultant. And this is ostensibly what consultants do, but in areas beyond reality TV. And there's a part of me that feels like sometimes I feel like when people bring in outside parties to weigh in and offer the like, here's what I should do. I think it's a slippery slope in terms of allowing people with outsider opinions and strong ones at that to come in and think that they know better. That's why I think like Mike White is so valuable to survivor because he is an outsider to survivor, but he's also someone that makes television. And so he has like an entry point. Whereas my argument against someone like me is it's like, you're just a fan. Like, what do you know? You don't know what it takes to make TV. So when it comes to like consultants in general, whether in this space or beyond, I think it's better when they have some sort of access point to having done the work or similar work in the past for them to say, listen, you know what I'm reminded of as I'm saying this, there's a line on the comeback season one when Shane, who is one of Valerie's co stars on room and board. She says, well, when I was on tick tock tree talk for Disney. And that's a great example of like, listen, Shane was on tick tock tree talk for Disney. So she'd been to the up front before. So she knew a thing or two. And so I think it's helpful when people have some experience in the space, even if it's failed. Yeah. I'm just noticing something in your background that I've never seen there before. And it looks like almost like a screen poster. What is what am I looking at? That is a poster for Valerie Cherish starring in the suburban slasher six. I have been looking at it being like, in my just like subconsciously being like, oh, there's like a screen poster that's never been there before. And then I'm looking closer and closer and I'm like, that's Valerie. It is an official selection for Brooks County Student Film Festival. And it says premier screening at Berryfield College Gymnasium refreshments will be served. And wait, if it's VI is that six or four? That's six. Six. Okay. Yeah. So this is the suburban slasher six. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. They asked me which props I wanted to take home and I have more coming, but this was the one I was like, I have to grab this. Wow. Yeah. Okay. And don't worry. I have a I have a Mrs. Hat poster coming. Okay. Here's a question you're going to love. Hello, it's George from New Orleans. And I'm wondering does ingest like that get better after episode one? Is it worth watching? Do you have any recommendations on how I can enjoy it moving forward? Or is it just not worth it? So George from Washington has watched one episode of and just like that an episode I've never even seen, presumably if it's season one episode one. And he wants to know is there hope from here? So I would say definitely watch episode two because I think episode two might be my favorite episode of the series because that's like the big funeral and what's her name? Susan Sharon returns and you get a really good hat from Carrie. But no, I would definitely say do not watch and just like that for a myriad of reasons. The best thing you can do. What do you mean? I thought you'd be like, oh, yes, like it's it's not good, but it is important viewing. No, I don't feel that way. Wow. No, I would say the best thing you can do is to rewatch Sex in the City. I'm so shocked by this answer. I thought you'd be really into the encouraging someone to watch and just like that. No, I think it's like with time and distance, I find it all a little upsetting. Yeah, just because it's to me, it's like the issue I have. There's the separate issues around the quality of the show and the plot lines and blah, blah, blah, blah, but like the retconning of both Carrie and Miranda, like the attributes of the characters are gone. So it'd be one thing if you were like watching these three characters on a subpar show, but you were like, but at least it's like Miranda and it's like it's not Miranda. Like it's an actress that once played Miranda playing a different role called Miranda. So there's just that aspect. And then also like so many like the costumes aren't there. Like there's just there's very there's just not enough touch points to even make it something worth like, you know, taking that edible and watching like it just doesn't know. Yeah, no. Certain things we had so much fun with. Yeah, I mean, I think as it was airing and there was like certain moments where like the Internet would galvanize around something and it would be like, yeah, it's certainly fun. But like to be in silo to be in 2026 watching and just like that. And that's what it feels like. No one to talk to about it or yeah. Yeah, it feels punishing. Yeah, OK, fair. Okay, final question for Evan Ross, cats. Wait, well, here's the way. Sorry, one follow up from the engines like that conversation is like, I watched season one of Sex and the City famously was told to stop. I was told, do not watch anymore because I want to podcast sex in the city with you. And so I've just been sitting here and like every now and then it'll cross my brain of like, I should throw on a sex and the city episode, but I'm like, I don't know if Evan's going to yell at me if I do that. Like, am I safe to watch Sex and the City season two? No, because like realistically, Evan, when when in the flying fuck are we ever going to podcast sex in the city? I think we could find time. We'll need to clone ourselves. No, I think we could find time. OK, maybe when survivor maybe when survivor 51 is airing. Yeah, but I want to start from the beginning. Well, I know. And like, that's easy because season one is shorter. But it's just like, I'm just sitting around waiting to watch season two. I just need to be there with you. There are so many moments I need to experience with you in real time. OK, noted. Do you remember when you would like text me when you were doing your Buffy watch and be like, just finished like polished off six episodes of season three? Oh, yeah, you were fuming. I'd be like, didn't you you like just skate it through faith? I think the season four return or something. And I'm like, so you just watched my favorite episode of all time. I was like, you don't need to hear. You don't want to hear every little thing. Yes, I do. It's my favorite show. OK. You bitch. Well, in my mind, I think at that time also, it was like still early in our relationship. And I was like, and you were like, your book was just coming out. I was like, he doesn't want like another person talking. Sometimes people like and like, I'll do respect, but like some people text me. But people like no friends, like during a survivor episode, be like, oh my God, I can't believe Q just said that. And I'm like, I don't have time. I don't have time for this right now. Oh, girl. The amount of that. The worst for me was like during the height of heated rivalry. Right. When like any room I would enter into people would be like, can you believe? I can. Yeah. OK. One last question for Evan Ross, cats. Hi, Sean and Evan. This is Sophia from Seattle and I am just calling to ask Evan how the house for model is going. I'm dying to know. I haven't heard anything about it in a while. Wow. Well, you don't ask. Oh. Well, thank you for asking. So the update would be we are knocking the house down. Why? Wait a minute. Hang on a second. That was not in the plans. I know. What happened? Did you find asbestos or something? No, the amount of work that we're doing made it such where it was more equitable. To knock it down equitable or more economical? More economic. So we're knocking her down. Yeah. We're still sticking with those blueprints. Yes. It's the exact same house. We're adding ceiling height. OK. Because, you know, because we're knocking down, we had the option to make some tweaks, but it's the same house. So we're adding additional ceiling height and we're adding a few feet to the, like we're expanding the layout a bit. Like the floor space, but the exact same layout. OK. And we have a meeting on next week with the architect and the builder to start to go over. Like we're moving into that phase. But I don't know. It's like bittersweet because on the one hand we're not, we'll probably break ground like early summer. And so on the one hand, like we get to have that, we were planning for this to begin in May. So we were like, we won't have any summer in the Hamptons. And now we're going to have some summer. But the more, the longer we wait to begin, obviously the more that eats into next summer. But yeah, she's coming down. OK, so I won't be visiting this summer. You can still visit. You could come and say with the whole. No, you could come and say at Billy's parents' house on a weekend that they're not there. Oh, OK. Yeah. I forgot we have multiple houses in the Hamptons. Yeah. Or you could say at my brother and sister-in-law. You know, brother to the pod. Do I ever? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. You know what would make my mom happier than ever would be if we coordinate a weekend when she's out there for you to come visit us. Oh my God. She'd be levitating. Yeah. We do need to get her. Is Mother of the Puget to be at the live show? She'll be at the live show. We'll have to have her do an autograph signing. We should have to be like a spoken word poetry or something. Yeah. We've got to get, does she have a talent? She can play the harpsichord. Stop. Stop. Oh my God. Yeah. This is going to be like a survivor live reunions where they would cut away to Russ Landau playing like a crazy instrument. Yeah. So we'll have her on the harpsichord. We need to get her on the pod though soon to just do a season 50 check-in with us. I would love that. Yeah. We need to get her thoughts on the under editing of women on the show. So this is the thing. This is, I was talking to Max about the logistics of how we're going to do this. So I figure we can just be in a Riverside recording and when it's time to call into Mother of the Pod, because Riverside is probably going to be like a little too complicated, I'm thinking. We can just zoom her and then we'll stitch it in. She can use the zoom. Yeah. And you can set it up and then yeah, we'll just stitch that bit in. Can't wait. Like that. Okay. All right. Well, that's all I got. Is there anything else you wanted to say? No. If you have complaints about my takes, voice memo them in so we can respond. And if you have any questions for Sean Ross, just send them on in. Actually, let's put a call out questions specifically for Sean. Yeah. Okay. So that's good. All right. Thank you for listening. This has been fun. Bye. Bye. Bye.