Why the Nancy Guthrie Case Captivates America, Joel’s Winter Olympics Takes, and Tales From an NBA Locker Room With Logan Murdock

Hello, media consumers. Welcome to Press Box Thursday. It's Brian Curtis. It's Joel Anderson. It is producers Bruce Baldwin and Isaiah Blakely. Coming up on this here podcast, why America is tuned in to the story of the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie. Joel is going to put on his spandex luge suit to talk about the Winter Olympics. Wow. We got some final thoughts. about the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl ratings, how to fix the NBA, and ahead of Sunday's All-Star Game, our pal Logan Murdoch stops by to tell us some tales from his days as a Golden State Warriors beat writer. Fashion icon, Logan Murdoch. Truly. Look at Instagram if you don't believe us. We got to start with Nancy Guthrie, Joel. Oh, man. Yeah. Because as we talk on Thursday morning, she is still missing. Yeah. Nancy Guthrie is 84 years old. She is the mother of Today Show host Savannah Guthrie. She disappeared 12 days ago on February 1st from her home near Tucson, Arizona. Man, I mean, that's just, it's really one of the worst nightmares a family can endure because the mystery is probably worse than like certainty or like having some sort of closure about what's going on, right? And the way it is right now, and hopefully, you know, we get some information about what has happened here, but there's no guarantee that we'll get any real closure at this point. Absolutely not. A number of developments this week. On Monday, Savannah Guthrie released a video on Instagram. Here's a little bit of that. So I'm coming on just to ask you, not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you, that you report to law enforcement, we are at an hour of desperation. And we need your help. on tuesday joel the authorities released pictures of the apparent kidnapper who was wearing gloves and a ski mask those pictures were taken by guthrie's doorbell camera been a lot of explainers about how that footage was recovered as well we had harvey levin from tmz making the cable news rounds speculating on the person or persons who wrote the purported ransom notes yeah he was also talking about how there was activity in a Bitcoin account that was mentioned in one of those notes. And then late Tuesday, a man was detained by authorities in Rio Rico, which is south of Tucson. The man was then released, and he told reporters, quote, I hope they get the suspect because I'm not it. Here's what I'd love to discuss with you. Why is America so tuned into this story, do you think? Um, well, I think Savannah Guthrie is maybe one of the most famous and least polarizing people on daily TV left. She's been doing the Today Show for so long. And that's not a show that is a lightning rod for controversy. Right. Like it's usually cooking segments, the bright side of the news. And she's just generally sort of given off a sunny and warm disposition that is really hard to disagree with unless you're a sociopath. And there's more than a few people out there that are like that. But so we know there's a feeling of familiarity with her. And, you know, it's easy to think about her and see those pictures of her mom and like, you know, feel get a sense that we can feel what she's feeling. because she's been in front of us for, you know, 20 some odd years. And her mom's been on the Today Show. Yeah. So for people who are really locked into that show, she's a person they know, a person they've seen on television before. Again, you know, if you talk to people, my mother-in-law's one of those people who really watch those morning shows, they regard the host of those shows like family. Yeah. Know things about them. That's right. Know what they do, know what they like, know their you know their habits and and you know their their passions and all that kind of stuff so i think for a big segment of the tv watching audience this feels very personal absolutely absolutely you know it i mean we don't know how this is going to end but you know how like something some um crimes just a sort of an inflection point like like the adam walsh i don't know if people remember Adam Walsh. And it's like, it totally reoriented the way a lot of parents parented their children and like the fears that they had about leaving them alone or, you know, a stranger danger and that sort of thing. And I sort of wonder if that is also sort of driving this too, because it's like, it really, it's so random, but it also feels like that could happen to anybody, right? Absolutely. Jesse McKinley has a good story in the New York Times called Why Nancy Guthrie's Disappearance is Breaking Through the Noise. Mentions the celebrity aspect with Savannah Guthrie. Mentions, as you say, this idea that it could happen to everybody or anybody. I mean, you and I have parents who are in their golden years. Absolutely. And you see a story like this and you're like, you suddenly become even more protective of your parents, more worried about them. That's mixed up in this. You see them get older. You see them get more vulnerable. You see that like it's because it hits you right around that age. It's like, oh, the role of protector has fundamentally changed. Right. Like that's I it's flipped by this point in their lives and that like I'm responsible for their safety in a lot of ways. Man, you know, when I worked at the Hernando Times, which was, you know, the one of the regional papers of the St. Petersburg Times, I had to cover this really horrible murder case in Brooksville, Florida. And 83, 84 year old woman had opened her door to somebody in her neighborhood. It was like sort of known to her, but it was still like a street person. And that person murdered her in our home. Like he stabbed her, left that house bloody, whatever. And I remember having to talk to her son about what had happened. And like he was just so torn up about like I knew that she shouldn't have been living on her own. I remember that was one of the things that he kept saying over and over again. I knew that she shouldn't have been living alone. And it's just like, yeah, it really touches on anything. Anybody who's watched somebody that they love that is older than them get vulnerable and fragile, for this to happen, it really would hit you in a particular way. We all have so many versions of that conversation. Oh, should my mom or dad be driving? should they be living alone should they be as far away from me as they might be you know should they should they be you know doing this and that as part of their weekly routine absolutely the thing i was thinking about too and mckinley mentions this is we live in this world with nest cameras yeah and cell phone signals and it seems crazy that something like this could just happen. Yeah. So brazen. Yeah, exactly. And the authorities would just have no idea about what happened or very few ideas, at least as we talk here on Thursday morning. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, you know, one of the most controversial Super Bowl ads was about the ring camera, right? And people were sort of upset because, you know, people don't, I mean, there's a debate if you're a progressive about whether or not you should invest in ring cameras or whatever. But you hear about something like this and even it didn't it has not thus far protected Nancy Guthrie. But you you hear about a story like this and you're like, well, this is why people have it. Right. Because it pieces together like it's a piece of evidence. We did. They didn't have that. It's already sort of a it seems like a really difficult investigation at this point. But if they didn't have that, I mean, just think about how much further behind the eight ball they would be. To use a term of art that we employed a lot back in the 1990s, this is a true media circus. Every break in the case or seeming break in the case has been documented on cable news. You've had ex-law enforcement types parading through every single show, offering their expertise or something like expertise. You have reporters camped outside Nancy Guthrie's house. This week, the Pima County Sheriff's Department tweeted, We can't believe we have to say this, but media on scene, please do not order food delivery to the crime scene address. This interferes with an active investigation. Then you have the figure that is inevitably dragged into this or becomes the center of this investigation, Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos, who said, I'm not used to everybody hanging on my words and then trying to hold me accountable for what I say. I mean, so I remember watching one of the early press conferences he gave. And I was like, well, he's not ready for prime time. Right. Like he's just not used to anything like this. And that's a media story, too, because, I mean, Pima County, the second largest county in Arizona. But I mean, the second largest county in Arizona. I think the main media outlets there, the Arizona Daily Star, which I read has like 10,000 digital subscribers, and it has like a normal number of broadcast outlets for sort of a medium-sized outlet. But like he's very rarely had to deal with this sort of thing. My understanding is that the last real big national major story there was in 2011 and the mass shooting that involved Gabby Giffords. I think six people died and that 13 people were wounded. And at the time, Nanos was involved in the investigation and he gave quotes, but he wasn't at the top of things. But just think that was a long time ago to have to deal with the national media. Right. Like he's just not at the center of things and he's not normally having to have every word parsed the decisions that they're making with the department questioned in that way. It must be I don't it's not that I feel sorry for him, but it's just like, man, this is not the kind of case that you guys typically handle. And it's showing right now. You saw us get dinged for going to an Arizona, Oklahoma State basketball game. I kind of felt that wasn't fair, man. First of all, Arizona's great this year. They're really good basketball. They're number one in the country, I think. And so, you know, I mean, the thing is, that's what happens when you're in a media storm and you're not used to it, right? Like somebody put it probably been like, you know what? That's probably one of the games you should watch on TV tonight, bro, or whatever. But even years. I've always vowed not to be a bad look guy. because everybody says well that's a bad look and i'm like well who cares about what is it bad yeah yeah that's isn't that what's important you know right is a bad look but i'm like i was also like you know what you probably shouldn't go to a basketball game well probably shouldn't but then it's just like thousand media members are in tucson and that kind of tough day you know it's like what would make you get your mind off of it for a few minutes like that but then people would probably credibly say you probably should not have your mind off of it like this i'm sure people think you should be thinking about this with every waking moment that you have so i well that's the thing it's like do we do would we think you know again to get to go back to bad luck would we think this guy shouldn't have two hours where he is not thinking about the case or is doing something else while he's thinking about the case if he were to do that at home would we be against that you know in 12 days? I don't know. That's a tough one. But that was a report and it was out there. Yeah, and it's just weird because people, I'm sure, have sort of an impression of what a sheriff is and where they are. But it's not like this guy's Joe Arpaio. He's a Democrat. He represents the Democratic Party. He's been the sheriff there since 2020. And he's said that his department is not going to enforce federal immigration law. Like he's, in a lot of ways, he's like sort of the vision of like a reformist law enforcement authority. So it's not like he's the typical law enforcement villain in this case. But, you know, yeah, just whenever people get a chance to start questioning the actions of law enforcement, because again, most law enforcement, most law enforcement never has to deal with a case like this anyway, like no matter how big of a city you're in. Like it's a very unique case. Nobody's going to be well equipped to handle it. And so then you're going to every step is going to be scrutinized and you end up with people mad that you went to go see the number one team in a country play a home game. Can I tell you how excited I've been to hear you talk about the Winter Olympics? Really? Since the torch was lit, I've been waiting for Joel Anderson's analysis. I am that guy. Milan and Cortina. Here we go. Do you know that my first national job when I was at BuzzFeed, I covered the 2014 Winter Olympics, but I covered it from home. They gave me a whole little setup where I could record GIFs, and I had to get up at 3 o'clock in the morning to watch this. That's so BuzzFeed. The Winter Olympics. Yeah, I used to make my own GIFs back in the day. Wow. And so, yeah, isn't that crazy? I used to know, and I don't even know where all that equipment is now. I mean, it's long gone. But since so, you know, I was thinking, especially after the Super Bowl, I was just like, man, this seems everything. This seems like we're in sort of a malaise that there's sort of a low energy and low enthusiasm for like major sporting events. And I've been so wrong. Like it's not reflected like the first of all, the soup with the Super Bowl, like did pretty well. But like these these winter games are the highest rated games since that the 2014 games. And apparently it's a continuation of everything that's happened since the Paris games, which were a hit, if you recall, for people that can even think back two years ago. They were a hit in a way that I can't really recall over the course of my life in terms of like the Olympics. Like it felt like everybody was watching some part of the Olympics at that point. And NBC had done so well carrying them. It was like, damn, they did a really good job with that. And everybody was engaged, right? Yes, I totally agree. I think two things are happening is one is technology finally caught up to the Olympics. Yep. Cause the problem with an overseas Olympics would be stuff would happen during the day. Yep. You'd be like, they do the old member turn on, turn down your radio when the sports update would come on sports radio. If you don't want to hear what results. Yeah. And then NBC would repackage him from prime time. Yeah. We've now gotten to the point where we have peacock, we have streaming. So you can just watch anything you want, no matter how obscure live on tape, whenever you want, which is really, really works for the Olympics. Like what Netflix did to movies, streaming has also done for the Olympics because it's this monstrous, diffuse sporting event. That's one thing. The other thing is you're right. Like it feels like there's just so much going on in the world. And it feels like we have so many options that naturally we would be less interested in this. And I think that is generally true. But at the same time, live sports are the one thing we are all interested in. Right. And if you ever had any doubt about that as a fan, a network executive or whatever, this really confirms that live sports are the thing that people are going to tune in to watch pretty much whenever. But do you think media has done a good job of reflecting that? Because I feel like even, we'll talk about Super Bowl later, but I just kind of feel like I haven't seen the coverage or I haven't seen the attention or the headlines coming out of there. I've heard about Lindsey Vonn, you know, tearing her knee and then crashing in her final, her most recent event. But that's kind of all that's broken through. And I was thinking, well, who the hell is even over there covering the Olympics outside of NBC? Is that because we're just the ultimate casual fans when it comes to the Olympics? Possibly. Yeah. I mean, I've been watching every night because my kids just love this. Really? But I did not know. California kids loving the Winter Games, huh? Oh, truly. And they love it in exactly the same way I do. I'm not football dad where I'm like, okay, this is who this is. This is Sam Darnold's story. I'm like, your guess is who Breezy Johnson is as good as mine because I just learned that myself. You know, there's something kind of like wonderful about being a casual fan. Oh, yeah. We were watching the men's Super G last night. Do I know the difference between Super G and other skiing events? No, I do not. At all. I do not at all. but I watched and I'm people who are watching us on the Spotify app right now will see me glancing at my notes. Cause I'm going to have to get this right here. Ryan Cochran Siegel. Okay. We went to silver last night, Vermont's very own Ryan Cochran Siegel. Vermont. And I'm like, this is cool, right? This also feels no matter, forget the fact that JD Vance got booed and then everybody got mad because an Olympian said something other than America. Hooray. We are the best and everything is great. this actually feels like a safe space for patriotism. Yeah. There's not a lot of like, I'm rooting for you skier from Vermont that I've never heard of. And it'd be really cool if you got a medal and I feel that I feel great. And that feels uncomplicated to me. Unlike other feelings about America or every other feeling about America. I've enjoyed it on that level too. Oh, that's what's up. Yeah. I mean that, and that's totally the way like, cause I mean, again, it's not like they're sitting around doing, you know, the San Marino biathlon competitor or whatever, right? We're not getting a lot of that. So yeah, so we have the people that they're bringing to us. And NBC, as we've pointed out before, and they're doing a great job with the NBA, they're really good at telling stories, getting you engaged in these folks and introducing them to you. And it's just like, I don't know anything about this, but I might as well root for this person who I just met 30 seconds ago. 100%. And NBC, that's an interesting part of it because you're right when you say like the tip-offs that you and I, the Olympic casual, the Olympic normie fan would have gotten decades ago are gone. Yeah. Remember that Sports Illustrated issue that would arrive in the mail? And again, once again, who's potentially going to like medal and everything in every event? Oh, that was so great. Right. Sports Illustrated still exists, still covering the Olympics, but used to get something in the mail and it would be like, oh my gosh, this now I understand. I see somebody on the cover. I see Brian Boitano. It'd be that nice, thick Olympic preview issue. and you would just learn everything. Krista Yamaguchi on the cover, you know what I mean? Right before the Olympics. It was fantastic. That doesn't exist in the same way anymore. But if you watch NBC, and again, I'll go back to the Super G last night, if I can sound like an expert here. They had a feature on Marco Odermatt. Who's that? Well, he's a Swiss skier. He's a multi-time medalist in the Olympics. His parents, they were at his house talking to his parents. and you're like, this is so much detail for someone who wound up finishing third in that event. Here's who he is. Here's him talking. Here's his parents. Here's the photo albums of his early days as a skier. And you're like, you could do this a lot more cheaply and a lot more half-assed than NBC's doing. They're putting a lot of muscle into telling you who these people are. The thing is, if they're not going to do it, who's going to do it? And it has me thinking about like the WAPO's decision because, I mean, they still sent three people over there, including Rick Mace, who's one of the best feature writers in America, of course. Who's staying in the post. He's one of the he's one of the survivors of the sports section massacre. He made it. He made it. And I'm just thinking, I just wonder if like this is how it's going to be or if this is sort of where we're headed. If like this is what sports going to be is going to be like the networks and the casual sports fan. they're going to really gravitate toward each other and the casual sports fans are going to tune in for the big events and they're going to get all their information from the broadcast partner and then the hardcore fans the real sports stat nerds they're going to listen like I do when I consume college football content I go to the different podcasts that I listen to the different blogs the different sub stacks whatever the social media accounts and there's nothing really in the middle for like you know because normally in the Houston Chronicle or whatever you'd read and they'd be okay. Like I'm following the local team or whatever. But I, if I just wonder if people, if there's a fundamental change in the way we think sports are now and what they're supposed to mean to people. It's a good question. I think the winter Olympics is probably not the best test case for that. Yeah. I mean, when I saw that the Washington Post asked for 14 credentials to the winter Olympics, that was not the most sympathetic moment I had for the sports. Fair point. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I I was like, damn, y'all doing it like it's 1996. I mean, look, if you're a Washington Post sports writer, it's not your job to go to Will Lewis, the departed Will Lewis, and say, hey, please don't put me on this plane because I'm worried about the financial health of the paper. That's somebody else's job. So, I mean, get on the plane. Go for it. But I'm like, really? We're saying 14 people to Italy? Nobody else is. I mean, who else would even be close? Maybe the Associated Press, I guess. I don't know if the Athletic has. I bet we could find somebody in the – and it was explained to me that the thing is you have to ask for the same amount every year. So you're going to want 14 for L.A. in 2028. Gotcha. So you ask for 14 for Italy because the number – you don't want the number to go down. So, oh, well, you only said six last time. We only get six for the Summer Olympics Right But to me it like we have this very old school idea from newspapers of the period and Sports Illustrated the period that like you just send a squad to everything even when it across the world and even when it the Winter Games which are not going to be as big a part of the American consciousness as something else. And I'm like, you know, do I want more people to be there? Yes. Do I want people to be able to get on a plane to go? Absolutely. But we also just can think of this in a more modern context. Like maybe we just send fewer people to stuff like this. Every local newspaper, major local newspaper would send somebody to the Super Bowl, even if they didn't have a team participating. Like the NFL person at that newspaper would go or the NBA writer would go to the NBA finals or even a number of playoff games. They just start showing up and covering the Western Conference finals or whatever. And like, obviously, that is all gone. And it probably makes a lot of sense. because it's like, yeah, that's of questionable value to the reader. But it sucks for the writers. It sucks for the people in journalism because there's just a lot few opportunities to do those sorts of big events. But at this point, I'd rather have a job than have to worry about that kind of stuff. We just might have to make it work a different way. Yeah. Last note on the Olympics. Skiing. Yeah. Always exciting. It was part of the famous montage for the Wide World of Sports. thrill of victory and agony of defeat with the big crash. Look, it was always a little flat TV-wise. Then the skier comes around and now we get another camera shot. It was exciting, but it was only so exciting. Let me tell you something. Drones have absolutely changed skiing on television. It looks phenomenal now. Now you understand a little bit of what it takes to compete in one of those events. oh man absolutely yeah it does it looks so different and so like yeah it just it's not even remotely like the two-dimensional thing that you got when we were kids or growing up there's a better word yes it is in three dimensions and it looks unbelievable yeah have you ever skied before Brian uh my mom one time we went to New Mexico so I grew up I don't know if you're around this in Texas but like all friends would ski like that was a big deal sometimes it would be the Christian skiing trip kind of game or young life was that what it was called or whatever that was a thing and I don't know why I'm not but I was not a skier because I thought rich people did that I was not into that and then my mom one time when we went to New Mexico bribed me with a hot dog and said can you take one lesson I was probably in elementary school and I took one lesson and then that was one and done for old Curtis I've never been skiing don't know what it's like But I like the vibe, like the cabins, the fire, you know, the suits. It seems like that's really fun. But you know what actually, and this is kind of a crazy thing to bring up. Do you know what really kind of fucked me, got me got scared about skiing? What's that? Sonny Bono. Oh, my God. Do you remember Sonny Bono? Yes, I do. I'm sorry. I'm laughing. Yeah, sorry. RIP, Sonny. Sonny lost his life. You can die skiing. Didn't somebody else like Natasha Henshry's or somebody like that die skiing, too? Yeah, there have been a lot of accidents. That might as well be bungee jumping to me, man. It doesn't seem like that juice is worth the squeeze. You have any final thoughts on the Super Bowl, as long as we're talking sports? I thought it was a decent game. I can understand why nobody else cared. I think you talked about this, Dave. Who would you say was the biggest star in the game? I mean, I asked the Heifetz and Kelly, our favorite Danny's that question. And it was like Stefan Diggs. Stefan Diggs. Because of who he's dating or was dating. Was dating until the Super Bowl week. Right. Maybe. I mean, Donald Drake May. It's like it. I can't remember a Super Bowl without with so few famous people. It was so low wattage. So low wattage. Yeah. And again, that's fine. Like you and I are football fans. It's not like we have to have famous football players to enjoy a game. We like college football, and all those guys are low-wattage too. But I'm like, was anybody as famous as Fernando Mendoza in that game? I don't know how to even measure that. That's a good question. Is Sam Darnold as famous as Fernando Mendoza? It probably is just because of fantasy. I mean, one thing that helps Sam Darnold is that he was a star at USC, and they've always got a little cachet in ways that other people don't. But, yeah, I mean, it's close. If it's – NFL is just on another level, though, with gambling fantasy and all that stuff. So it may just be – but regardless, it was a low-water Super Bowl, and it was a low-scoring Super Bowl. Low-scoring Super Bowl, which isn't a problem for me. I like defense. Of course – Do you like no touchdowns? Because there were no touchdowns through three quarters of that game. Well, so I talked about this on Tailgate the other day, and I like defense when a great defense is stopping a great offense. it's a little less compelling when it's a great defense against an outmatched offense, right? Where they're just like, man, I mean, those cornerbacks were breaking on passes. Like I don't give a shit about your arm strength or anything. Like they're just like, they had no respect for the arm strength, the Sam Darnold or Drake may who may have been hurt. So maybe that's it. But that's the thing, right? Drake may was a vote away from being the NFL's MVP this year. It's amazing. Does that say something about the celebrity or the staying power of the NFL? Because they didn't have – I mean, I guess the Patriots are sort of a premier team, but they didn't have any stars. Nobody was – and it still did pretty huge numbers, right? Yeah. Yeah. I honestly don't know how much to think – what to think about those numbers or how much stock to put into them. Yeah. because it's like everybody goes with, oh, my God, it averaged 124.9 million people. And look, that is a gigantic number in the society we live in, in the post Cheers Cosby Show world that you and I exist in now. But I'm also like, what did we learn from those numbers? That football is popular? Right. That Bad Bunny is popular? I mean, I'm sorry. What, like, you will look at, can you tell me something that that number tells you that if it had been 127 or 120, that that number wouldn't have told? I mean, what? I think would it tell – so the two ways it could – to me it does say something is that at least right now, and I haven't listened to Chuck Klosterman's interview yet with Pablo, right? But football is really – its ratings are resilient. Like it barely – like especially the NFL. It barely matters who's playing, the quality of the game. because I often, you NFL fans, I'm like, how can you sit here and watch this shit, bro? Like you're watching the Jets versus the Bengals. This game is so horrible. You're a college sports guy. I'm a college football guy, and I had to make a decision for the sanctity of my marriage and my family. So I had to pick one day on the weekend, and it was college football. But also it's because I'm drawn to it, and I look at the NFL, and I'm just like, that looks horrible. But it doesn't matter. Like it just doesn't seem to matter who's playing, the quality of the game, when it's played, Saturday, Sunday, Thursday. You sickos are going to sit there and watch NFL football. And God bless you, I guess, you know, because I don't have that sort of patience for it. But the only other way that it could have made news is if it had had a really low score. Right? Yes. Which looked like we were going there for a while when it was 9-0 and then 12-0. Your point about the resilience of the NFL, about how it doesn't really matter who plays, which stars, all that kind of stuff, or only on the margins, completely agree. Also, I already knew that. Yeah. I mean, it just, like, we knew all that stuff. That's right. So I just love the gazing at these numbers. I do find it interesting, and there's a good explainer and awful announcing about this, is that people, I think, hear so many numbers now with, like, YouTube downloads and views and all that thing. the Super Bowl ratings or any ratings are measured for an average number of people watching any minute of the game. So this is not a cumulative 124.9 million people. This is an average of 124.9 million viewers watching at any minute of the Super Bowl, including the brutal early minutes and the brutal late minutes of that game. Man, that's incredible, man. I mean, again, God bless these people because, I mean, that helps us. Like, as a media, the people's, you know, rapacious appetite for football is what helps keep us employed. But I'm just stunned that there's nothing that seems to put it in at it. And look, this is the 10-year anniversary of the Colin Kaepernick stuff. You know, everybody was full of shit. Just for the record, everybody was going to boycott the NFL. Both sides were going to boycott. Both sides. Yeah. Like, the NFL is too woke. I'm going to support Colin Kaepernick and boycott and none of y'all were up for it bro. Both sides tried to peace out and there was a, remember the brain injury part of it too, like I can't do it anymore, I can't watch. It's too tough yet like everybody's full of shit man Before we bring on Logan Oh yeah. There was another interesting podcast out there Bill Simmons and Nick Wright which started with by the way like 20 really fascinating minutes comparing the Chiefs Dynasty and the Patriots Dynasty and it sounds like that would just be one of those you know first things first we're yelling at each other in a playful way but it was actually a really fascinating comparison of those two dynasties and how we think of dynasties and all that kind of stuff and you know what it feels like to lose the Super Bowl which both men had been through in the last two years Patriots have been through a lot of them man they've lost six Super Bowls as Bill pointed out there you go they also got into the NBA and how to fix the product that is the NBA here a couple of days before the All-Star game. What did you make of that discussion? Well, I know it's not possible, but Nick's idea to have the black guys versus the white guys was a pretty good... I was like, he was right. It would get very intense. That would be very interesting. But in lieu of that, you know, I don't... Because I'm not the NBA head, like I'm an NBA fan, but I'm not an NBA head like those guys. I'm just kind of over complaints about the NBA. And here's what I mean. My entire life, everybody has wanted the NBA to do something different. There's too much defense. There's not enough defense. They don't shoot well enough. Fundamentals bad. Oh, the shooting's too good now. Now they shoot too well. Do you all like basketball? I don't understand. What are we supposed to, what do you guys want them to do to play basketball in a way that you will find appealing enough that you will stop complaining about the way they're playing basketball? Because I haven't seen that version of basketball played in my entire life, apparently. All right, put aside style of play. What about tanking and load management? Yeah, I mean, it seems like the issues here, and they've pointed it out, they should play fewer games. And tanking, I mean, they're not going to get rid of the draft. Like that's just not going to happen. I know that everybody says they want to get rid of tanking. They should get rid of the draft. It's not going to happen. OK, so what are we supposed to do? Right. So, again, I think it does kind of suck. And especially if you're the kind of person that wants to go to a game like I wouldn't mind taking my kids to a Wizards game someday. And I can only imagine preparing all month to take my two kids, my wife to an NBA game, showing up and like Luka don't play. you know I would be so pissed I'd be so mad but um that's just sort of the the bargain you got to deal with and I think that yeah you're right if they played fewer games but I still think that players would still take I still you know would still take time off I don't know that that would necessarily by reducing the season to 75 games I don't know that that would get it what do you think exactly I mean I think that's the problem and there's this interesting tension in the NBA right now, which is that Adam Silver went out to get a new TV deal. And boy, did he get a new TV deal. Yes, he did. A lot of rumblings that he wasn't going to get a great TV deal, but he got $7 billion a year to put professional basketball on television and now on streaming. So what happens now? Well, what if we made the season shorter? That sounds like a very, very reasonable idea to me. what if we start the season on Christmas day rather than creeping up into the fall, all that kind of stuff. You're going to give the money back. All right. You got $7 billion a year. And now you're going to try to give some of it back. I mean, this is, this is what makes things impossible. Right. And we see this in every sport. Oh, Oh, we, we, we have 64 teams, the NCAA tournament. Why don't we just have a ton more? Because that's not nearly enough. Or we have, you know, a 12 team playoff in college football. oh, why don't we go to 16? Why don't we go to 24? What happens is you go up and up and up, and you get more money, and then it becomes impossible to go back because nobody's going to write a check and send it back to NBC and ESPN and Amazon. Absolutely. So they're just stuck. They're stuck. We can talk about it. I think a shorter season would be a great idea. Maybe you could try to fix some of those load management issues. The tanking thing feels like a little bit of a separate discussion, But how do you get past the point of you did the thing you're supposed to do? You made everybody even richer, especially the owners. Yeah. Now what? You make everybody a little bit poorer? Yeah. And they talked about tanking. The play-in was supposed to have been sort of a solution for that. They're like, okay, there's still a little bit more engagement. A few more teams have a chance to make the playoffs. And then people are like, wow. I mean, I don't know. It's just a sort of like derision about the play-in games. And I'm like, oh, those are terrible. They're horrible. Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't know how many times I have to watch the Chicago Bulls play in a play-in game, but I guess this is going to happen forever. But, yeah, I'm just like, look, man, they're doing the best they can. I just don't know that there's a real solution for this. I will say to Bill, because Bill said, oh, I should not address our boss like this. But, Bill, I saw what you said about how the players should give back money. No, the owners should give back their money. Let the owners give back some of their money instead of the players. Well, I just don't think anybody's giving back any money. Nobody's giving any money. I mean, look, the baseball season, you could make the same argument. It's too long. Do you really need that many games? Could you decrease it by 10, 20, 30, whatever it is? Who's giving that back? Right. Do you also think, and people, the way we cover basketball and the way we cover sports in general, is like there's so much fixation with the postseason. Like nobody's legacy map. Like James Harden is reviled for a number of reasons, but also because he's played terrible in the playoffs in key moments. And it's like when you get the fans in the media have sent the message to the NBA players that it doesn't matter what you do in the regular season. You are going to be judged as a player and your legacy is going to be judged on what you do in the postseason. If you would just say, I enjoy the games, I like going to watch hoop and it doesn't matter what happens, but I like basketball. and if people covered it in that way, I wonder if that would make a difference and the players would receive that message. But the messages that all the players have gotten for the last, I mean, since the MJ, you know, since the end of the MJ era is that the rings are the only thing that matter and that's how you're going to be judged. And so they're acting accordingly, which makes sense. I think that's fair. But I also think you get messages that lots of people don't care about the NBA regular season. That's true. That's true. You know, you get messages from the teams, You get messages from the players. You get messages, all kinds of messages. And I think it's all self-reinforcing. Like, I don't think we created this with rings culture. I really don't. At least exclusively with rings culture. Not exclusively. So you're not in for the Blazers-Kings game tonight or something, huh? Yeah. I mean, look, and it's different than the NFL, right? In the NFL, you want to win all those games because you want home field advantage and all that stuff in the playoffs, right? There's very few that you're just like, wow, that team just took the week off. Yeah. But it happens in the NBA. And once it happens a little It gets real hard To get somebody to watch a Monday night NBA game Because Like you said, only got to go once And no Luka and you're like Or no LeBron, you're like Actually I don't trust this product anymore Fundamentally What is load management about? Keeping players healthy for the playoffs They don't load manage in the postseason That's what it is That's absolutely what it is And again, NBC is really trying to figure out ways to get people to watch NBA games on Monday nights. Amazon's trying to get people to watch. That's the fundamental challenge in the NBA is really, really simple. How do you get people to pay attention during the regular season? How do you make those games seem meaningful? And again, is it us? Sure. Is it the players? Yes. Is it the owners? Yeah. Is it Adam Silver, who Bill was saying very interesting things about? Yeah, I think it's all those things. But you're just like, it's really complicated. And I do not see an obvious way out of this. Yeah. Also, again, I'll just – I bet there's a lot of revisionism about, like, how people regarded the regular season 30 years ago. I'm curious to know how many people were tuning in for Bullets Hawks on a Wednesday night in 1992. You couldn't even watch that game. You know, like in a lot of – like, TNT Turner was probably the best way to watch that. I don't know if it was Bullets Hawks. but I don't know how many bullets came Turner head on a regular rotation but no I think it was what's the oldest slur about the NBA the first, only the last two minutes of the game matter and it was the same thing about the regular season and the playoffs, only the playoffs matter I guarantee that's been around a long time I didn't know which direction you were going with the oldest slur I was like how far are you going back not the oldest slur about the NBA one of the older complaints about the NBA Excuse me there. All right, Joel, time for a very, very special guest. All right, Joel, we are joined now in the Ringer headquarters here in Los Angeles, which has been a very interesting place lately. A lot of people come through, man. I mean, you've got a senator. You had the face of a centrist media outlet. And now you've got a cover model. So I've seen his photo shoot. he did the Kobe LA magazine photo shoot for his Netflix debut he's also a ringer writer he's a host of real ones he's the guy who knows his way around the Warriors locker room and basically every NBA locker room at this point he's our friend he's Logan Murdoch Logan welcome back to the press box thanks so much for having me man it is an honor this is crazy you guys are on video now the digs are great It's good to see Joel. I know he's going to hate. I'm not going to hate. I'm happy to see you, brother. I was alerting people to the fact that you're on Netflix now. I have you up and paused right now on my screen. It's you, Raja, and Howard, man. Good-looking group of people, man. No wonder y'all are on TV. I appreciate that, man. It's very surreal to be even saying that sentence that I am on Netflix. My granny can see me on TV now. It's pretty cool. It's a really surreal experience for sure. So Joel, Logan and I had lunch a while back and he started telling me stories about interviewing Steph and interviewing Draymond and working the Golden State Warriors locker room. And I was like, wait a second. We need to take this conversation we had over tacos and put this on a podcast, which we'll call Tales from the NBA locker room. That's great. Did you go to the same taco place you took me to when I was there? No, it was a different one. Oh, man. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you for asking for that detail, though. Okay. Appreciate you keeping me honest here. Anyway, tales from an NBA locker room. You got your first job, Logan, when you were 24 years old as a beat writer for the San Jose Mercury News. How did you walk into the Warriors locker room and make relationships at that age? Well, first of all, let's just give some backstory of like kind of how that happened to just kind of paint a picture of just how intimidated I was. So this was 2017. At the time, this little mom and pop shop called The Athletic was starting up and they had a goal of pillaging all the newsrooms. And they pillaged the San Jose Mercury News newsroom of Tim Kawakami, Marcus Thompson and Anthony Slater, all in one swoop, all in one summer. And at the time I was interning in in Memphis, Tennessee, at the Commercial Appeal and for a program called Sports Journalism Institute. and I was writing and I remember I got a text from Marcus, like you need to reach out to the Mercury News. And I'm just thinking like, all right, cool. I'll do it when I get back. I'm not really thinking much of it. And also at the time, like I really didn't have that much experience writing, right? Like it was, I could write creatively, but like, you know, just writing the newsers, writing, you know, the gamers, I was just very green at the time. And I think that speaks to just the state of the business at that point in time, right, where, you know, you just have, you know, just a cheap way of running a lot of newspapers and a lot of newsrooms. This was the beginning of like, you know, the venture capitalists buying up news, newsrooms and like just kind of pillaging the resources. And, and so I was, I was, I was cheap. And, you know, I had gotten recommended by somebody else, by Marcus and some other folks, because I just had been in the region interning in just a myriad of different places. And so when I got back from Memphis, when I was in Memphis, I had written a story on Nick Van Exel that got the attention of the San Jose Mercury News editors And then when Marcus Tim and Anthony left I got a call from their editors and they really took a chance on me I was I got the job October of 2017 The day of the season opener was my first day and it was really really intimidating I had been around the Warriors, but just like I had worked at NBC Sports Bay Area as an assignment editor. So I would occasionally go in to go to games and, you know, I interned at like CanBR and a couple other places. And so I had been around the team a little bit, not enough for them to know who I was necessarily, but to know like, oh, that's a familiar face. We kind of know him. And so when I got, when I, when I got the job, I remember being like, wow, this is crazy. And also I have a lot of work to do because like I just said, you know, Marcus is on the beat. Anthony's on the beat. Tim's on the beat. Chris Haynes was on the beat at that time. Ethan Strauss was on the beat at that time. And it was also a national beat. So, you know, Rachel Nichols is popping in. Will Barron, everybody you can imagine was I remember the first practice I ever attended as a beat writer. David Aldridge was like was was there. And that was like a huge deal for me because he was at Turner at the time. And I'm like, this is what I have to compete against. That's how I felt in my mind. So I remember just doing like crazy research on every single player, like all other ticks. I read about everything and I just wrote it down before the season and like wrote some like story angles. But I had no idea like what I was getting myself into. And one thing that really helped me early on is that like I had a I had a relationship a little bit with KD going into that because we had met when I was when I was interning. and he was actually my first ever byline for this uh for this newspaper out of sacramento so black owned newspaper called the sacramento observer and he i did a story i requested to do a story on him on one of his uh older um he had a rapper called name privilege i know this is one of brian's favorite rappers okay what's your favorite privilege song uh i'm sorry please owner of logan we were just talking about his experience so i so i i had written a piece on him right one of my first uh my first byline when i was 18 on kd and him like basically producing a rapper and i'd kind of known him over the years he had known my face so that was cool so like my first month then i was able to write like a q a get a q a with kd and that really the kind of solidified who i was on the beat um but still i had to master the day-to-day type of stuff breaking news, writing newsers. I wasn't, I was third on the beat. So I didn't really write gamers like that was kind of, which helped because it was like that as an industry, we were going away from that. So I was learning new tools, but I was very much learning on the fly. So I'm learning on the fly from a technical standpoint. And I also like I'm covering a version of the Beatles. Right. And that was, it was very, very intimidating to do all of those things. It was a lot of frustrating nights, right? Sometimes I just didn't get what I needed or I failed. You know, I absolutely failed a couple of times. I had high highs and very low lows my first year. And so it was a very big learning process to kind of just stay even keeled. And just I learned a lot on the fly. I think that was my education those three years on the beat, for sure. Well, I just kind of want to know because I remember earlier in my career, I had opportunity to cover some professional sports teams like, you know, the Mavericks, the Cowboys, Rangers, and then later, you know, in Houston. And the one thing that really flummoxed me was, how do I make relationships with these people? Like, I mean, they've already got established media relationships, right? They've got, clearly they've already got people they talk to. and these people that are working in the newsroom around me, they're veterans. They know, you know, I don't know how they're breaking news, but they're breaking it all around me. And I could never quite figure out how that stuff happened. So, like, how did – did you get any guidance about how to work a locker room or team beat? I think it was the years before I got on the beat that was really my education. I didn't have, like, a formal education in journalism. I just it was just the education that I got was like seeing stuff around me. Right. So when I was in college, I went to Laney College in Oakland and I was really just going there, honestly, for the Pell Grant, you know. And so I would I would my first year of college was the lockout year. And so I had an internship in Sacramento at KFBK Radio. And what I what I would do was I would just I would go front low my classes until in the morning and then go to Kings games. And so when I would go to Kings games, I would just kind of I would have a credential for the games because my role was just being a stringer, which was, hey, you get the you get string, which is sound. and you send it at the time I was an intern for Pat Walsh and I would just send the uh sound in um this is like for the sports updates for the sports updates exactly yeah yeah and so I would just send it in and then I would uh you know and then I would use that that uh in with the Kings to uh get credentials everywhere so I would come down to LA all the time and just like I'm Kings and Lakers are playing bed I'll plan a little you know weekend around it or I'll plan a time going to LA. But through that time, I was seeing like other people, how they did their jobs, right? Like Mark Spears was, I learned how to like get a player off to the side for Mark Spears as he was doing that. Right. I learned how to also, um, write on deadline from Jason Jones at a Sacramento B because I would literally sit by him. Cause I'm like, yo, bro, let's look at some food after He's like, hold on. I got an 11 p.m. deadline. I got to write. And so I'm sitting next to him. I'm like looking at his laptop like, OK, how do you what are you doing right now? Oh, you're doing this is a lead. OK, how are you trying to how are you writing through this story? Oh, you're just writing around these quotes. OK, how do you do this? I'm just like looking and then I'm seeing just kind of how everything is working around me. So and that happened that was going on for about five years. So once I got to the Warriors beat, I was using all the tool, all the like stuff that I was that I learned from just being around and how like kind of the world worked, this world worked and kind of using that. I would I remember thinking like, oh, I wouldn't do that. Oh, I think I'm gonna take that from him. I don't I don't really like how they kind of did that. I'm going to refine it. So by the time I was just really just going on instinct my first couple of years and the biggest challenge, though, was like, you know, just being scared. My first my first year on the Warriors beat, I remember towards the end I had gotten, you know, some interviews and I, you know, I'd broken some news. But one of the biggest takeaways was that I was writing and reporting scared. I was reporting like somebody was watching and I was scared of what their reaction was going to be. And I remember going into that next season just being like, I'm not going to do that anymore. And whatever I do, I'm just going to go 100 percent full go. And, you know, that's something that I really learned that first year, but that I learned how to build relationships by really just like on one level, I just did a ton of research on everybody. Right. And just see where I could get in and like, you know, where I can find some common ground. But by and large, I don't really have any. I didn't start with the stars. I started with the the bench players. Right. I started with Jordan Bell was like the first person that would give me like exclusives and stuff like that and would like give me interviews. And, you know, that was he was, you know, a rising player on that team. So that kind of once I got, you know, interviewing with him, he was cool with Draymond. So I would go to, you know, they had like a mother's event my first year. And I just wrote a story on Draymond and Jordan Bell's relationship. and that was really vital because I was able, that's when I first met Draymond for real. And, um, I met his mom, you know, and that was, that was a really important thing was just to go like to the events. You know, you might not see him in the, in the locker room, but if they see you at the events, then it's some, you know, familiarity, like, Oh, I know this kid, his kid is grinding, you know, I'll give him some time. And that's how you build up trust. So I was able to go from, you know, doing stories on the lock, uh, the people around the locker room and then getting to the stars. That's what really helped me out. And it was more of just like me building confidence, you know, through the locker room and through the young guys and getting up to the older players. Let's go one by one through the Beatles. Okay. Steph Curry. Yeah. How do you get to know Steph Curry? That was hard. And it was more because it wasn't because necessarily it was more because of my fear, right? Like my first first year, it was like he was the top of the top and also was a fear because, you know, I think one thing young writers get in trouble with is they like are resigned to the fact that the player is already spoken for in terms of like someone in the locker room. Right. They're like, oh, man, such and such wrote a book on him. And they you know, that's that's that's Steph's guy. Well, I'm going to give up. Right. And I you know, I kind of fell into that. Right. Like, there's no way I'm going to get in, you know, or be cool with or not even be cool with him, but like build a relationship with him. So, like, I don't think I tried the first year, but like I I remember like there were some inroads here and there. Like, I don't I think we probably had our first conversation maybe like midway through my second year on the beat. But one of the things, one of the times when me and Steph got cool was honestly when he got injured in the 1920 season because there was no beat writers there. There were local beat writers, but the national beat had all gone away. I think that was LeBron's second year in L.A. And so they were the Lakers were title contenders. So everybody went every which way. And then Steph got injured. So I would see him alone in the locker room all this time. I would see him pregame and I would just, you know, shoot the shit with him. I remember there was this one time where this is a thing when we got cool. There was this one time where there's this rapper named D-Lo out of Oakland. And at the time, I know neither one of you guys or nobody on the press box knows who the hell D-Lo is. But everybody out here is a tough one. I mean, all the rappers, you know, anyway, you know, I don't feel terrible. Yeah. But anyway, there's this rapper who's a legend named D-Lo. Right. And so at the time, D'Angelo Russell goes by, you know, he goes by D'Lo. But I told me and Steph were having a conversation and he brought up D'Lo. And I was like, there's no way in hell that I can call D'Angelo Russell D'Lo. And he's like, why? And I'm like, because there's only one D'Lo that I recognize. And that is D'Lo from Oakland. And he's like, who's D'Lo from Oakland? And he has this, he has two songs that's great. Both of which you guys won't know. One is called You Played Me and one is called No H-O-E. Oh, no, yeah, Mr. NoHo. Exactly, exactly. So I played that for Steph, right? And he just was so amused by that and it was hilarious and then we were cool ever since then, you know? And that was how we got cool, but that was like midway through his third season. Was it a good song? Did he like it or did he just think it was amused? I think he was amused by it. I don't know if he liked it. Maybe. I gotta check in with him, but it was definitely, he said he saved it so that was but anyways that that that was like but i still hadn't written a story on him substantially and i think that when i left the beat when i got here um i wanted to just kind of i felt like i was ready to take on the challenge of writing about him and with some depth and writing about him uh in a way that could compete with all the other writers that write about him and but it start that relationship started i think like my second or third year in the beat when do you work up the courage to say hey steph can i get your cell um uh i think yeah it was around that time too i was just like yo let me get your math and just i think we built up that trust at that point and then it worked out but like did he look funny when you asked him he was just like no not at all he just was like here um but i really take but that like the phone numbers and all that stuff like i don't know i really just try to like for me i really only just try to use that like just make sure it's all about work and business like i don't really like the small talk or anything like that i just really just be like oh let me confirm this or like what do you think about this like i like to have i like to have a barrier between me and them you know what i mean like it's very explicitly work at this point not to say we don't have like a relationship but it's very much a working relationship but I don't think I got built up the courage until like that's so D-Low. So shout out to D-Low. Mr. Noho. That's what's up. All right. Well, you do. Okay. So you did stuff. What about, uh, Dre? What, how did you get to know? Um, I got to know Draymond. I think it was at that mother's event. That was, um, like 2018. Uh, we had gotten, um, no, we had started building a relationship there. Um, Draymond is, uh, Draymond, I would say, it's very, what I learned about him as a cover in him, he's very savvy with the media. He's, he's very, like, he's the guy that is, um, you know, if he sees a young beat writer that he starts to respect, like he'll go to them and like, give them exclusives. Like I've seen him even like in the last couple of years, like if somebody, and he sees somebody new and up and coming, he definitely will give them an extra quote or something like that. Right. But, um, I remember there was this one time, this was after the, this is when I was like, okay, we're in a, we're in a good place. Right. And I still criticize him. If you guys listen to real ones, like it's still like a balance and I'm, you know, we've never had a back and forth, but I, I try to be as honest as I can about him. But I do remember there was this one time I really stuck out. It was after the Western conference finals in 2019. And they were about to go to the finals. And I need, I was tasked to write a piece on Draymond because he was incredible during that 2019 postseason. That was when KD was out before he tore his Achilles. And I think Draymond averaged like nearly a triple double. Like people forget like right now, like he's not, he's towards the end of his career. But Draymond was good for like 15-7 and seven, especially when you needed it. Like he was an offensive force. But anyway, he basically helped carry Golden State to the 2019 finals that year. And I needed to write about him. and I was trying to get him like just get maybe like a couple quotes for him from him like extra quotes uh outside of the uh outside of the press conference because that's what a real currency is and I remember um going and being like trying to like see if I can get an extra quote from him and a PR person I don't even remember who it was might have been like a league PR person uh kept shooing him away from me like and I was just like very I was just trying to get him so I was very persistent because i was like i need this quote man like i'm trying to go back and um i remember like following him for like a good like three or four stops and he was about to go to the bus and um uh he he agreed to it and i pulled down my recorder and um he like he he pushed my hand down and was like not yet and before i recorded he was like i see how they were doing you just now and I see how they kind of do you for the rest. Basically, you're low on the totem pole and I see how they're treating you because of that. But if you ever need anything from me, I got you. And that really meant a lot at a young stage of my career at that point. Because what I've learned in this business, when you write, it's about moments and it's about getting players. You can get a player at any time, but when you get them at the moment is a difference between whether the piece is red or not and i i needed him in that moment for the story that i was writing because it was his moment and for him to give me time during his moment um really helped so like that piece he he talked about his relationship with kevin durant at that time which was really which was really critical for me because it led the jump the next day and it got and it got my name out there um and like rachel nichols said my name on tv and that was really big for my career. And so that was when that was, that's my Draymond story that I always go back to because I was really helpful him doing that and giving me extra time when I really needed it. So that's my Draymond story. KD is intensely interested in the media. He was tweeting at you last year or tweeting about you last year. No, he added me, he added me. It was nice courtesy. Yeah, yeah. What was your relationship like with him in the Warriors locker room? I mean, it was pivotal, man. It was, you know, like I alluded to it at the beginning, but I've known Kevin since I was a child, since I was literally a kid in this business, right? Like I just said, he gave me my first exclusive. He was always good to me early in my career and was very pivotal in my career. And like when he says in the tweet, uh what annoyed me in the beginning like he like he said that um like i forget the tweet but he alluded to the fact that like um that i'm trying to steal off of his name or something like that but it's a two-way street when it comes to interviewer and interviewee um and you know he early in my career he went out of his way to help me out and then on the back end shitting on me for him helping me out in his mind right so that's what annoyed me but the I remember like when I was 18 he you know he would help me out and he was my first big exclusive he always really gave me time when I needed it when he wasn't talking to other people um and what I do respect about him is like he's kind of cut from an old school cloth now it's a new new technology and new means of doing that but like um he's one a player that like you kind of know where he stands at any given time Like when he sent that tweet off, it's not it's not something that I didn't hear from him in the DMs or something like he's like we don't we don't necessarily talk all the time. But like if he sees something, he'll definitely make you know that he sees it and is frustrated by it or annoyed by it. Never when he's happy about it, which is, you know, an interesting thing. I don't I don't know what that says about him, but I do respect that. Like he if he's if he feels some type of way, he will come at he will come at you. But I do remember like he K was like or Kevin was very pivotal because my first byline was when he was an OKC in 2011. And I remember I had no journal. I didn't know wherewithal of like journalism protocol within the NBA. Like I didn't know when the open locker rooms I used to walk up to play. And I remember getting to it was sleep train arena at the time, very early for around the time when he was warming up. And I remember I was trying to get him for an interview and I just sat on the baseline, very nervous. I was still a teenager and he I went to go after his warm up. I went to go say, hey, can I interview you about such and such and such and such? And the PR people at the Thunder were like, no. And because, you know, they I think you've written about it. Like, you know, OKC could be really stringent. They've been really helpful. they've been helpful in recent times for me, but at the time they were really stringent and I was a nobody. And he pushed aside the PR person was like, no, I'll talk to him. And he talked to me for like 10 minutes. And that was really, you know, it was really formative for me. And he's always really giving me time, even when like he's, uh, uh, gone at me on social media, but like it, it's fine. It is what it is. But that, that, that's what you get when you cover Kevin, like you're going to get, you know, the highs of a great quote, but he's also, if he don't, if he sees everything, so you got to go in mind with that and just know, like sometimes he's going to pop off, but when he pops off, typically when you see him in person or afterwards, he's not really on. It's a weird comp, but he's always reminded me of Aaron Rogers in a way. That's a really good, very online, very interested in the media, very interested in how the media works. Yeah. And always happy to tell you if they didn't like what you wrote. But on the other end of that, he also was a very big proponent of media members in the locker room. And I remember going out and asking him for a story I did on The Ringer back in 2022 about how he felt about people coming into the locker room, media members. And this was at a time when it was locker room access was pretty much on the brink. This is when Adam Silver was test ballooning the whole idea of what if we just kick the reporters out? Right, exactly. And Kay was like, no, I want them in there because we need that dialogue for them to understand us and we need to understand them. It's going to be helpful for all parties involved. So, like, you know, it's. I think, you know, I know that. I know what the job requires, and I know that, like, there are going to be some times when players, you know, go at you and, you know, he's not the only one that is that has done that. but also like, you know, this is part of the job, you know, I'm not, it is what it is, but he is a throwback in that sense. Because back in the day, like there wasn't no subliminal tweets. There wasn't none of that. There was like, no, I'm going to at you. And if I don't like what you say, and I'm going to tell you about it. So I respect it. Well, I want to, cause this actually happened to me. I can tell you, I'm not going to make this about me. Cause I'll tell you some other time. Jeff Kent once came at me in a lot in an Astros clubhouse for writing something about him in a game in a game story. It wasn't even a column, but at any rate, and it was just a very surreal to see like Jeff Kent is like mad at me talking shit about me as I walk up to him on credit I tore my Achilles and so I was like hobbling in there So what kind of experience did you have like that that did not involve Kevin Durant Was there ever a time you walked into the Warriors locker room and it was like oh man they got it out for me They don't want me in here or I'm about to get it. I remember one time I reported that. That DeMarcus Cousins was trying to come back around Christmas. this is when DeMarcus was on the was on the team for the year and he was really trying to get back because he was trying to get a new contract at that time it didn't really work out for him in New Orleans and he signed a mid-level exception with Golden State he was really trying to get back fast so he can get paid again and I reported on his I reported on what he wanted his injury timeline to be and he was not happy with that at all, he was pissed and you know I went in there and I remember Raymond Ritter, the PR guy, he's a, he's a PR legend and we'll go to state. And he came up to me, he was like, Hey, the markets ain't happy with you. And I was like, and I just went into the locker room and I was like, let's talk. And he, you know, say what he had to say. And I responded and that was that. And, but like, you know, it, there's, there's much, you know, I'm not going to say like, I come from like the hardest environment, But like, you know, when I was growing up, there was a lot more things to worry about than somebody yelling at you and probably not actually going to do anything to you. So, you know, you got over it once you, you know, somebody like I've been yelled at before in like real life with more dire consequences. So it wasn't like that big of a deal. So once I got through it, it was like, whatever. How much of these guys actually read what you wrote? I think variations It depends I don't know I write a lot of words now Very dense things So I don't expect them to read every single word I think more now It's the aggregation of what you write More than the actual piece of what you write They hear about it They hear about it And we're so connected now I think more than we've ever been Where you know you may know somebody in somebody's camp and they might send it to can you like send it to the player like can you believe he said this or can you believe he wrote this and see uh send something completely out of context and then you get a text based on something that was out of context you get a call or you get a cold shoulder on something and you know that um they didn't read the whole piece they just read what was like the kevin thing for instance like he read an aggregation of something and responded to said aggregation i highly doubt he read the whole entire piece i think warriors world screenshotted a paragraph yep and that's what he was responding to yep and so um yeah i i don't i i do know there was another story of people that do read the whole piece i remember there was a um piece i wrote on omri caspy back in the day oh man damn that's going bad well no it was it was like 2019 2018 and i remember the headline was like how um omri caspy his experience playing in israel shaped his journey into the nba or whatever right but it was really like a 500 word like piece on omri caspy from the game and i remember steve kerr was like yeah man i i came to read your piece on um omri caspy and it was yeah the headline was kind of misleading like you didn't really write anything about his journey i was really excited to read it he basically said my my piece was was shit and damn or the headline was shit or the headline was shit and i was like uh oops so i know he read all of it but i don't know like you never really can get a good gauge if they wrote read the whole piece or listen to the whole podcast because you know people listen to get snippets of real ones gets aggregated all the time and um you know it's devoid of context or like the other thing that i'm uh trying to like trying to master at this point is you know when you're talking on podcast you are talking like how we're talking i'm talking to my buddy Brian and my buddy Joel right but it's like when you're talking sometimes you mess up the context of what is actually being what you're thinking because you're talking as if you expect the other person to be understand what you're saying not you kind of forget about the audience because you get lost in the conversation and sometimes that kind of bites you in the ass because you really have to think about what you're saying on any given moment at least I try to do that. And sometimes when you're lost in the conversation, it messes up the context of what you're actually trying to say. And as a result, you know, people will come at you because it gets aggregated as such. And so that's something that I'm trying to figure out, especially as we get into this new Netflix video age and the Spotify video age, it's even more tricky. So, yeah, I'm trying to get used to that as well as it pertains to being in locker rooms and being because I'm somebody that like I'm going to be around. If you want to see me, you're going to see me. Look at you, Stephen A. Okay. I don't want no beef. I'm not trying to be I ain't trying to be like Stephen A. I'm not trying to don't come at me on camera, please. I'm not trying to have the World Star moment. I'm just trying to do my job. Do you watch World Star? No. You missed out. You never seen a World Star clip? No, I don't think so. Man, I remember I used to... I know you old, Joe. I remember like freshman... Not freshman year, but like... Probably like junior and senior year of high school. We'd have like zero period, and that would just all be watching World Star. That's how we got our news. It was great. World Star was a really... You guys should do like a press box with World Star. We may have to do a special monthly issue on that. Yeah, no, actually, though. That'd be kind of interesting. I got a lot of my news, like legitimate news from news clips. from Worldstar. It had a lot of cultural cachet for a long time. I mean, if you saw anybody getting into it in the street, somebody would yell at Worldstar. You could watch a Rick Ross exclusive music video, but you could also watch a CBS Evening News snippet. Did Sharkeisha come through Worldstar? Maybe. Remember Sharkeisha? Vaguely. We're getting real deep. Okay, anyways, I'm sorry. I want to ask you about this and I'm sorry if I'm pivoting too far afield here, but you reported and wrote a great profile of Chet Holmgren, because you were talking about Oklahoma City. And I just wanted to bring this up because it really came up in the last few days after somebody asked him about the shooting of Alex Preddy there in Minneapolis. And you know, he kind of, I mean, he gave sort of a, he equivocated a lot. He said, that's a very loaded topic, obviously. I don't want to get into the opinion and politics of everything. Well, the thing that you wrote about him was about, you know, the influences in his life. And anybody who has heard Chet Holmgren or looked at pictures of him can see that he has spent a lot of time around Black people in his life, which is going to happen because he played basketball. And you wanted to talk to him about that and focus a little bit on that part of his presentation and even to the way that he speaks. What made you comfortable asking him about that? And did you let him know that that might be something that you were going to touch on when you talked with him yeah i mean i think it goes back honestly to the my first year on the beat with the warriors and like making that promise to myself that i just wasn't going to be scared you know right and i'm not going to report scared i'm not going to write scared i'm not going to interview scared um and i remember going into the interview and going and prepping for the interview and saying i can't write this story unless i go there with him right unless i ask him about his upbringing and what makes him him because that's always i think and everything i read about him that was always the biggest question mark and that was always something that like when you read about his journey the in the black influence on his life was kind of always it wasn't no one actually went there when they wrote about it you know what i mean like they never actually like explored that nuance of a white kid that is um thought to be a suburban white kid actually living around blacks and actually being influenced about blacks and from how they speak to the food that they eat to also, quite frankly, his game, right? Like he was taught by black people how to play the game of basketball. And I wanted to explore that. And fortunately for me in the piece, I think that was something he was open to talking about. And I got the impression that he was he felt that he needed to uh talk about and actually explain himself at least that was the impression that i got to say like hey man i'm not i'm not faking this this is really just who i am right and you know i talked to a lot of people around him for that piece and it was a lot of black folks around him and a lot of them were like no this is kind of who Chet is. Not only this is who Chet is, this is a product of the family he comes from, right? And the father that he has and the mother that he has that made sure that, you know, he was around a diverse set of people. And, you know, that, so I went into the piece knowing that I had to touch on this if I'm going to write a really in-depth profile of somebody, right? Because I feel like it would have been hot. I wouldn't have felt good about myself and I would have felt the piece was hollow if I didn't go there because I feel like it explains a lot of who he is as a person so I knew going in that it was going to be a some tough subjects being broached but I knew that I couldn't be scared going into that interview I got two quick ones before Joel hits you in the lightning round could you do this now what you did starting in 2017 get to know players create relationships given how much players are now giving to their own podcast and their social media accounts and giving about and given how much the media has come down in everyone's estimation since then yeah no i think about that a lot um in some ways i i you know have the ego and being like yeah of course because i would have just grinded my way and i would have did exactly what i've you know did in this moment i would have just used those same tools in this moment to get there but But on the other hand, it was like that was a different era, but it was also the end of a particular era going into this one. And I think with the mindset that I had at that point, I was really new to the beat, but I also knew the language of my generation. I knew how to use Instagram at that point. I knew how to use Twitter. I knew how to use those things to my advantage. And so if I was coming up now, I would I would like to think that I would know the generate that my generation's language and I would do what I did with when Instagram was popping and when Twitter was popping. I would use that for other algorithmic social media platforms like I probably would be on TikTok. And I'm not I'm not fluent in TikTok right now, but I feel like if I was coming up in this generation, I would be fluid in that. And I would learn how to speak to my generation through those mediums and through how I write. And also, like even the way I write now, it's just kind of evolved with the times because, you know, I think and I'm not just saying this because I work here. I think coming to the ringer was really formative for me because creatively I could kind of do what I want and I could try stuff and copy and I could try stuff to continue to make my copy interesting. And this place has allowed me to be able to do that and kind of kind of let my hair down in a way that a newspaper would it and the way that it may, you know, a regional sports network that has ties to the team as wouldn't necessarily do it. Um, so the ringer was like a real big help for me in getting here, but I'd like to think that I could do it because I would just use the same mindset of just evolve using my way to evolve within the context of what this generation's communication, um, style is. So that's change. Number one change. Number two, just about every outlet has cut travel for beat writers. The Washington Post cut travel before they murdered the sports section altogether. Could you have done what you did without road locker rooms? Well, the interesting thing was I didn't really have access to road locker rooms during my time at the San Jose Mercury News. I can count on one hand during my time at the Merc that I think I maybe did like three road trips that whole season. So you did this all at home. I did this all at the crib. Like I, um, I would just take advantage of, so my road trips were like Sacramento, which is a drive, which is a drive, but you get a road shoot around cause it's still a road shoot around. Right. So I, there's a lot of arenas at the NBA that I haven't been to because I just didn't, I've never done a full 41 game season because at the Mercury news, I was third on the beat. So I wasn't, I was third on the priority list, um, in terms of beat writers, but I was so young that the columnist would go before me. And like, I, it would really, I remember when, uh, the only reason why I got to travel during the finals is because I was in the J.R. Smith locker room after he did the, uh, I was tasked to go to the Cavs locker room after J.R. Smith dribbled the ball out of the paint and let the time run out and pissed off LeBron. And I went into the locker room and they were like, Oh, we liked your copy from that. We're going to send you to Cleveland. and but so yeah like i i had to grind despite it you know i had to do that despite it i didn't really start traveling regularly till i was at nbc and even that was select road trip so um you know i i do believe that you can do it it's going to be harder than ever but i i believe that it can be done you know i think there's a lot of there's a lot of great young journalists out here it's got a great young writers with, um, with ingenuity, with persistence, um, with wherewithal, um, I think they're going to find a way, you know, I don't think they're going to take no for an answer. You know, I think they're going to figure it out in the way that they do. Um, the, the method is going to change, but I think the overall mindset set is not, and the adaptability is going to be there for this younger generation. I truly believe that. all right logan this is going to be your second lightning round so i don't want to hear about you talking about oh i'm so honored to be a dog you've had you got two lightning rounds on our show in the time i've been here bro i feel i feel great about this chris collins where it's only gotten one only gotten one yeah chris should we go get one uh yeah he did he did okay all right all right We're going to start this lightning round now. All right. Most helpful public relations team in the NBA. I mean, it's Golden State. It's definitely Golden State. No, but nobody's better than Ray Ritter at that. Oh, yeah. I don't like giving him full. I gave him two compliments during this podcast. I don't know how I feel about that. So as an outsider, I've dealt with some of these guys. Ray Ritter. Ray Ritter's just another. Yeah, man. And also, one of the things about Ray is like, he loves this shit. you could tell like he's just it's in his bones he's like yo he is always checking in on road uh beat writers are people coming in you know he just goes the extra mile and like everything like you always have a gift when you go to your hotel room like how the hell do you know where i'm staying out here right or like you know he's walking the the um the press area um and just making sure everybody gets what they needs and he just tries to accommodate and also is like hey you need stuff for 15 minutes? And you're like, yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. Logan, it's a lightning round. What are you doing? Sorry, sorry. I got called in the moment, shit. Okay, damn. Okay. I want to ask you all the questions. I appreciate it. Least helpful PR team in the lead. Well, I'm trying to get something from them right now. I'm going to say that offline. I'm going to refrain. Oklahoma City. Actually, no. They helped. The Chet Holmgren piece, they were very accommodating for the Chet Holmgren piece. Okay. So I'm not going to say that. There was a time when I covered the NBA that the NBA beat writers and team could sit right on court side. And I don't I feel like Mark Cuban was one of the first people to be like, I think I want people that pay to sit along that line. So what is the best press row in the league at this point? Man, I was at a crypto last night and I was second row in crypto watching behind the basket, watching Wimby fucking ball out. So that was pretty cool. Lakers is up there because I mean, they could pull. I'm really I was talking to Beck, Howard Beck last night. And I'm like, I'm surprised that they even have us here because they're missing out on a lot of bread by having us right here. So I would say like the Lakers is really good if you get a good seat there. Who else, man? The Kings used to be really good. but uh they they put you up there i don't know man um i think that also speaks oklahoma city's good um they can be good because they put you behind the scorers table um if you're important enough i'm not that important um i don't know i think it also speaks i haven't been to all the arenas yet you know what i mean oh philly philly's great i love philly philly just gives you like a whole back like a whole bottom of the section it's i was i remember i went there for a game And I was like, wow, this is pretty cool Yeah, I would say those three Okay What NBA City Arena Haven't you been to that you want to get to? Madison Square Garden Damn, you haven't been to that? No, what had happened was When I was working at NBC The pandemic happened And right around the time When the pandemic happened around March We actually had a road trip We were going to go to Milwaukee, Toronto And MSG and I was really looking forward to MSG because I was doing television at the time and I was really excited. It was like a bucket list moment to be able to do a television hit from the floor of Madison Square Garden and it really hurt that I wasn't going to ever be able to do that. And so I've been to Madison Square Garden but it wasn't in the media capacity. I went to a Liberty game and I just happened to meet in New York and I was like let me just see MSG. But that's the arena that I would like love to go to that I haven't been. But we got hella ringer people in New York that I can't go to New York. I'm just stuck on the West Coast. So I don't know when that's going to happen. Last two. What player other than Draymond seems best poised to be a media star after their career is over? That's a good question. I don't know. because there's a question of being good at media and also wanting to do it. Yeah. Like having an interest. Because there's a big difference in that. Right. Well, you know, it's funny, like all the people that I would have said, because I would have said from like three years ago, they're kind of in media right now. Like Austin Rivers is great. You know, Austin Rivers, I really I really love what he's doing. I don't know. You know, I think would be good. I don't think he would ever want to do it, though. I think LeBron is going to be great Klay Thompson would be amazing on television I think he would be amazing He has so much great perspective You ask him one question, he's just going to go Off on so many different tangents About everything, and he also is a very Worldly guy, I don't think he's let people Get to know him like that He loves to surf But he's also a huge Bone Thugs and Harmony Fan The range of this guy is just incredible No, don't you dare. Don't you dare. I don't have enough time for it anyway. Not my lightning round. Last one. It's a former high school QB. How good is D.A. Bell? He's better than I could ever be. He's incredible. He's going to Texas. There you go. The nephew of the Real Ones pod is incredible. And I look at his highlight tape, and I'm just like, yo, this dude is nuts. And it's crazy to just see him grow. I remember he was like, when I first met Raja, he was like yeah man i got this eighth grader he's cool and i'm like is he gonna be good like eighth grader okay how good could he be he was winning varsity at like eighth grade like ninth grade um so and he might not even be the best bell um kid ty bell is averaging 33 points a game as a sophomore he's a score i think he just scored like 50 points in a game like last week or something like that i could be wrong but he had a high score he might be the next one that is he might be taking the one everybody by storm and that's saying a lot but ty bell is good too we'll get him to texas too that sounds great oh yeah take the whole we'll take everybody we got the mannings now we'll take the bells that's fantastic i'm so happy no actually you know i don't want that to happen because like texas don't ever come to the west coast i keep i'm looking for texas football to get tickets so they can come to the west coast maybe like the rosewood i'll go to but like i've been looking and i'm like there's no way i can see dia play live unless i go to austin well that's We're just going to have to do that. We're all going. Let's go. Let's go to Austin. You want to go to Austin, Joel? No. Not really. I love it. All right. Logan Murdoch. This has been so much fun to do this. I'm so glad we got to do this in person. Thanks for coming on the Press Box. He's Joel Anderson. I'm Brian Curtis. Production Magic. Ooh, that sounded weird. By Bruce Baldwin and Isaiah Blakely. Coming up next week, Shoemaker's on Tuesday. Joel's on Thursday. Joel will have more lukewarm takes about the media. I can't wait to share them with you. Sure will.