Ep. - 1527 - REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS WITH BEN MANDELKER

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It mixes easily with water or smoothies, making it simple, enjoyable routine that you can stick to every single day. Right now get 15% off the super elixir at wellco.com and use Kate Casey 15 at checkout. Try it for yourself and feel a difference within weeks. That's W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com code Kate Casey 15 at checkout for 15% off the super elixir. 15% off at W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com promo code Kate Casey 15. First time orders only. Welcome back for another episode of Reality Life with Kate Casey. This episode I'm thrilled about because Ben Mandelker from Watch With Crappens is back with me today and we're going to talk a little bit about the real housewives of Beverly Hills. What I love about this episode is we talk more in terms of like the sociology of real housewives of Beverly Hills about power, identity, reinvention. We go through each of the cast members. Kyle is navigating what happens when a woman who has been the emotional center of a group suddenly steps outside the institution of marriage and navigates something different. D'Ariette is still wrapped in her image but the cracks are showing. Sutton as always is the wealthy eccentric outsider. The woman who refuses to follow the social script but wants to be part of the social structure. Then you have Erica Jane who is perhaps the most fascinating arc because she's a woman who had an embarrassment of riches and everything turned on a dime. Now she's reinventing herself going from the wife of this very successful attorney into a performer and we see her on the cusp of something different. Then you have Rachel Zo who's new, who represents a woman pivoting after divorce, rewriting her narrative with a kind of chic authority. Jennifer Tilly who floats in as this sort of whimsical unbothered sprite of an old Hollywood wealth. A reminder that true riches don't always seem like they have to be in part of a hustle. Somebody who just sort of is amused by themselves and then you have Amanda Frances bringing in this modern influencer era abundance of Braggadocia if you will and then you have Bose who is representative of corporate America impivity and out of that into her own sort of entrepreneurial future. So you have all of these cast members. They have interesting singular stories and how they weave their lives together. And Ben, as you know, has this podcast where he reviews every single episode with his partner, Ronnie. And it's so fun to chat about these shows because they spend so much time looking at all of the specific details, all the big moments but also the small moments and kind of put it all together. And as you know, this is the kind of discussion that we always love here at Reality Life with KKC. So having the opportunity to kind of go through each person and where they are in their life right now was most interesting. I hope that you share this with the people in your life who also watch Real Housewives because of course every franchise is different and this one is so specific. So if you are a Real Housewives person, this is totally up your alley. But you know, if you don't necessarily watch it or watch every single episode, I think you're still going to be interested in this discussion because it does sprinkle into other reality shows and different characters and how shows are filmed in the longevity. So please enjoy this episode of course. Make sure that you are in the Facebook group reality life with KKC. Please get that what to watch list at kkk.substack.com. Also those bonus episodes, I've got a great series with Mary Payne called Tell Me Everything each week we share a story with one another. And you can find that on Patreon. However, there are also bonus episodes on Apple as well. And of course, make sure that you check out all the other episodes. I've had some great, great episodes this week and even the previous week too, true crime sports, it's a mix of all different things and I know that there's something for you. So please enjoy this episode with them. Ben, we're brought back together again. Ah, at the long last Kate, how are you? I'm good. I'm remembering this week how years ago we did a review of some show that was called Hotel Something or Another. Yes, I'm still mad at you. You made me watch that garbage show. You're like Ben, come on the show, we're going to recap hotel rescue or something. I was like, what? But then we had a really funny time making fun of it. We did. Because we were like going off script and who we think these characters were really like off the show. And I just love that. But it makes so much sense because you are a writer. And I'm sure that your lens to which you look at a lot of these shows is not just obviously escapism. But do you find that some of these characters, you're looking at them almost like characters from a script or from a book? 100%. I actually look at the shows in general as stories. People always say, oh, my stories are on, but they are stories. Obviously they're stories. I mean, everyone looks at them like they are stories. But I really see narrative structure in these shows. And I think it's important to have narrative structure. And the seasons that kind of flail about are the ones that don't have that or the characters are not interesting or they don't have conflict. All these shows, whether they're scripted or unscripted, whether they're a docu series or whether they're a competition or comedy, they have to have those basic building blocks. You need to have conflict. You need to have characters. You need to have protagonists and antagonists. Resolution and climaxes and first act breaks and second act breaks. And it's got to follow that path. And so yeah, I totally look at these things through that lens. I always feel like I look through the ones of characters like a sociological experiment. I find all of the things that they do and that the things that they don't do to be endlessly fascinating. And I always appreciate the stories because they really do live in a space that do not seem to exist in regular TV or film. Like, where are you going to find a woman over 40 who may have four kids who may have gone through a divorce, is handling a health issue and also trying to keep relationships not only with their own children, but maybe like their in-laws. I think it's hard to find all those things in a character in a TV show or a movie. Or even just like going out to watch some parties consistently. I have the traditional view of women being like, oh, they have their kids. And then they take care of their kids. And they disappear. And then they disappear. And then you have sex in a city came along. And that really was a big deal for pop culture, which is crazy. Like it's crazy that that like it's like, oh my goodness, women in their 30s have sex lies and they go out and they brunch together. But in fairness, that was written by mostly men. So a lot of those characters were so over the top that we didn't really see ourselves in that. True, but there was something, you know, there still was something obviously very groundbreaking about it. The idea that women in the 30s were not necessarily settling down and having kids. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. But like that was the reality for so many people. And it's like, oh my goodness, they're showing that. And now we're seeing on the real housewives, you see women in their 40s or in their 50s who are living vibrant, exciting lives, getting drunk, having sex, sexual awakening, sexual awakening, you know, being a little crazy and, you know, and having conversations about each other and trying to work out relationships with each other, like seeing women in in 3D ways. And that's why I always get so mad when people are snobby about the real housewives. I think it really actually offers so much more than just like catfights and complaining, you know, it's actually, it actually presents women in ways that we are now taking for granted because we're used to it. But like, we never used to see women in pop culture presented this way. Oh, never, especially over a certain age, it was like forget about your wash up. Yeah. And the movie with like a 35 year old plane, you know, the mother of like a 16 year old, which made absolutely no sense. Yeah. 100%. You know, and actually in a weird way, like when you see those movies where you have like a 38 year old plane, you know, like the grandma, which of course there are 38 year olds who are grandmas. But we were talking about it, when we're saying grandma, we're talking about like stereotypical grandma. I don't know, when you have the real housewives, it's just sort of like pokes holes in all that. You just sort of realize how thick that stuff is. And then I also love to see so many of them gain their own power. Maybe they they stood behind their husband because of his position or his family or whatever it may be. And then suddenly the show is really about them. And they find that they're looking at themselves in an induid different way. And the way that sometimes their husbands were checked that, that you know, the power and balance, I think it's pretty eye opening as well. Yeah, it totally is. I love it. I love the real housewives. I think it's, I just think it's a richer. It's a richer font of content than people who give it credit for. No pun intended about richer. But I've been, you know, I always say this, you know, people, I feel like so many men will say, like, I don't know how you could watch that. It's just it's just women arguing. Right. My husband says that. My husband says it all the time. How many times do you hear a guy say that? Like, oh, it's just women arguing. And then at the same time, these same people will line up on a Friday night to watch, you know, or a war movie or Jake Paul or Logan Paul fight, like, like, you know, they'll be some UFC fight. And that's just like guys pummeling themselves in the face. And honestly, I don't, I don't say them like, how could you watch that? It's just that. I would never say, yeah, you're allowed to watch that. But like, why is watching the real housewives watching, you know, adult women figure things out and are, you know, using their words to to deal with their, their shit? Why is that any worse or why has that considered more low brow than watching two guys punch each other in the face until one of them has like a broken draw and it's like black and blue. Also, a lot of people say WWE. Oh, it's great storytelling. So just. Yeah. Yeah. I will defend the WWE, of course. I think I was on, I think I was on last on your show. You did like a deep dive into Ben and I think I was an intern at WWE. But like 100% I think that people are allowed to get their storytelling wherever they find it, whether it's the NFL or whether it's the real housewives. But what I don't think is that there should be snobbery about the genre. I think there should be snobbery if I think the show has poorly made. I think there's like a lot of really crappy reality TV out there. And so that I will be snobby about. But I think to be snobby about the real housewives, just because you're watching women argue, I think it's just so, it's so archaic, it's so outmoded, it's so outdated. Anyone who watches those shows know that there's so much sophistication in the crafting of those narratives and the crafting of the comedy of those shows. That to just like reduce it down to the simplest form of like it's just bickering and act like that's just like the worst thing in the world. I think it's a crime. I agree. Well, I thought it'd be fun to go through each of the cast members in the real housewives of Beverly Hills and kind of talk about their personalities and kind of the sociological part of not only their singular stories but also their interpersonal relationships. So at that we start with Kyle. Kyle, I kind of think she represents the woman who spent decades being almost like an emotional mayor of her life, like the wife, the sister, the center of the group. But now she's confronting what happens when she steps outside of that role. And now there are a lot of people that have speculated she's moved or purchased a home in Nashville, Tennessee because of Morgan. And she's alluded to a relationship at the beginning of the filming of the show, which of course was filmed quite some time ago. So I wonder how that plays into her identity. Like is it an identity rupture after a long-term marriage? Also, I think it plays into female reinvention under public scrutiny because like I said, she's been this emotional mayor of her community and with that I think becomes expectations of someone. Yeah. Is that you're saying that she's the emotional mayor because she always has in this town, like she is the mayor. I mean, she starts from the very beginning, but I think in her family of origin, we kind of see that. I have said in the past, it almost seems like Kathie's the dictator and Kim is the disaster. And sometimes Kyle even seems like the doormat because she's the one who kind of has to keep them all together. Because of the Kaufman drama triangle, if you will, if you will. Carmen, Ramachrangle, which I think is Carmen. I forget. Yeah. But it is. I think that yes, what's interesting with Kyle is that I'm assuming that she's always been defined by bigger personalities in her life. So she was always like in Kim's shadow as the big star. And then sort of also in Kathie's shadow as like as Kathie became a prominent social light. And Mauricio's shadow. And I think what we've always seen with Kyle and Lisa Vanderpump's shadow on the show. And we see that she is in the shadows and she doesn't like being in the shadows. But then once she claws her way into being in the light, she's like uncomfortable and doesn't and sort of like find someone else to kind of be behind. And then is upset again. And so she's I think in many ways she doesn't really know who she is because she's often in the context of someone else. Right. Like she's often Kim's sister. And so you see her with her relationship with Kim on the TV show. She gets frustrated with Kim and she gets mad and people don't see her as more. And then she's taking care of Kim and she's doing everything for Kim. And then she can finally be the star of this show. And then she just doesn't know who she is or whatever. And then she brings Kathy on all of a sudden. And now she's like Kathy is like the one that everyone loves and then people don't like Kyle. And now she has to grapple with that. And so I think she's like constantly trying to define who she is. And yet like always retreating to the safe space of having someone that she is sort of under. And maybe that's like a very relatable thing for a lot of people. I think that's actually something that I encounter in my own life. You know, I make fun of Kyle. But like that's, you know, I have moments where I'm like alpha and I have moments where I'm beta. And like, and I think also having gone to therapy and learned about myself, you know, one of the tensions in my life is that I am as a now out gay man, but as a gay child, it was always safer for me to sort of be in the shadows a bit and like just always have a smooth like, you don't want to get in trouble. So you don't put your neck out there, you know, because the moment that you don't want to shine a light, you don't want to shine a light, right? But then as a result, you don't get to say all the things you want to say. And then like, like, fast forward 40 years later, and I'm like a podcaster saying all the things I want to say, right? And so like, I understand that that desire to want to just be like, I want to actually be in the spotlight. I want to be in the sun. I want to say all the things that I want to have to like keep it quiet. But then when you're in that space, you've not been in your whole life. It's like very scary and strange and it's just much easier to retract again. So that that tension that I feel like I see in Kyle, I think is very relatable. And I imagine there are a lot of people who go through that with various spouses and husbands and appearance and siblings. To your point, you know, living with Mauricio and, you know, he's been building this business. And I think there is a little bit of a cheese while there. Like, you know, like he's steering the ship. And the irony that this would be the point where she would have an opportunity to soar, to really have the freedom to be who she wants to be. Yet she'd spend in this relationship with someone who does not want them to be public while living in this weird vortex where they're in a music video together. So it's very confusing for us as viewers. And I can imagine it's incredibly confusing for her as well. Well, it's not the same. It's the same thing of like, she's in the music video. She's putting herself out there. But then she's also pulling back and being, you know, not like she's hedging her bets. Like if there's going to be some sort of backlash, she can say, well, no, no, no, it's just a music video. Although this season, we are getting more insight, which is that it seems like she would be pretty comfortable saying what her truth is. And she's basically said that it was, that she was keeping things quiet essentially for Morgan Wade's sake. But I don't, that's a strange one for me. I mean, I don't understand that. But also, I sort of respect. Well, I think what people have said is that maybe Morgan's not totally comfortable with being out in for her family. Yeah, I think that we all just assumed she was out bad. But like, look at the fine, the fine text as she maybe she's not. Yeah, complicated. Okay. So then let's go to Dory. Dory, much more emotional this season. Do you buy it? That's she's at a place in her life where she's feeling like she can finally have a freedom to express how she's really felt a felt in her marriage. Or does this feel a little bit like an acting exercise? That's a good question. I haven't even thought about this. So I have to, I'm going to think of a hot take right on the spot. Is it? I think it's almost like is she stepping into her own identity? Or is she just using this like a walking Chanel press release? It could be all the above. I mean, I think that I think that like I don't get the sense of to read that she was suppressing some sort of persona when she was with PK. I think that to read has always been kind of fake, you fake. And but I think that she's been ambitious and upperly mobile. And she like she's going to just like, okay, you screw me. Well, I'm going to come at you 10 times harder and I'm going to make myself look like the victim in it as well. And you know what? She might very well be the victim in it. By the way, I'm not going to say like it's all an act on that part. So I don't know. I think that to read is I think she's shrewd. I think she has managed to make herself this fashionista and this fabulous lady. And yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't see the same thing like with Kyle, with Colisee as like trying to find identity, but would to read I think to read is just like all I care about is being fabulous and wealthy and being in in great circles. And I'm not going to let PK drag me down. Yeah, I always kind of think of her as this like a woman who's entire identity is built through aesthetic control. So well signaling the fashion, the branding. But I just feel like at some point the crack starts to show. And it's finally caught up with her that now we're kind of seeing the cracks. Well, status driven. And I think that the cracks, the cracks are basically well, now her or her marriages start to fall apart. And I'm not going to say it's because of her. But I think that originally it was like we have this great life. I love PK. He's as smart. And he's so wonderful. And he's just the best husband. But now obviously like there was more going on under the surface. And so we're seeing that there's a lot more turmoil that she's dealing with in her life than she ever let on before. Yeah. So what's going to be left at the image once everything starts to slip? Well, that's why it feels like you know, she's we're seeing two marriages falling apart on Beverly Hills. And like Kyle and Reese will have a lot of pretty friendly appearing separation that's happening. But to read NPK, it's going down a bad path because I kind of get the feeling that she's like, this is my life. This is my trajectory. I'm on the show. I'm doing all the stuff. I'm finally getting my life to where I want to be on this girl from Connecticut who was now ascending ascending ascending. I'm now a fame. I have beauty. I have wealth. I have fashion. I have fabulous friends. And you're going to destroy it all with this divorce. Like no. And she's just going to like separate and push them out, push them to the side. And you know what? I support it. It's like she looks at it as like dead weight. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Let's talk about Sutton. Sometimes I feel like she sometimes I feel like she's in a different show. I don't know what that show is. But yes, she is. And I'm glad that she's here because without her here, this like honestly, this entire show would have just kind of like collapsed under its own, you know, controlled weight. I think, you know, we talk about Kyle. Kyle is like in search of identity, but she's also very much like she controls her image to read his controlling image, which is why we see her. I feel like spiraling out with with PK or maybe not spiraling out, but like angry at him because I think that he is threatening this thing that she has built. But Sutton cannot control her image. She tries, but she can't. And she's like, she's she's very, very emotional. And that's what's I think so good about her. And that's why the show needed her when she came along. I think that she saved Beverly Hills because the show was starting to ossify with the Fox Force 5. They had this idea of like who they were, West or is they want to put forward? Like we'll put out a little bit of conflict. So it looks like we're not just like all buddy buddy, but it was all kind of like, oh my god, you look great. You look great. Oh, she just, you know, she's being a little mean to me or oh my god, she says I talked too much. I have Sutton who is like emotionally bereft at all times. And like she's unpredictable, which then throws all the other ladies off of their game. And that has kept the show live. She also kind of seems like the wealthy woman is and conformed to the groups social scripts. Right. And that's important, I think, to have exactly. Well, she also seems to come from like the Southern Gothic school of tragedy. And she has tragedy in her backstory. And then she's, you know, been kicked to the curb by this wealthy finance year. And she lives this waspy Southern life where she's on the board of ABT. And she maybe owns like a minor league team. She's in Del Air, but she's also kind of like shattered and also not accepted by the cool girl. So she has all the money, but she's also on the outside. And so to me, she represents the person whose like perfect life has been actually taken away from her and she has no agency. Unlike to read who seems like she does have agency and she is controlling the narrative of that situation. Sutton has been just trying to get her bearings for these all these years and like trying to like get her next step, get her shit together and figure out the her next chapter. But she's just constantly being unmoored. And like she is the one who's just trying to hold on for your life, which just makes her compelling to me. I also like when I franchise, I feel like the city exists as another character. And the truth is it Beverly Hills, you know, it's really your social capital. It depends a lot on what your job is and how famous you are in the same way. Like in New York, in the finance world, it depends how far you can move up to social ladder according to where you went to school if it's old money. But so when you take these fish out of water stories, I find them fascinating because in most cases, it doesn't matter how hard they try, they will never be totally accepted. And there's a frustration that comes with that when you have an enormous amount of money and you can't just kind of crack through. Yeah. And like Sutton also comes from a world of old money. I don't know if Sutton herself is old money. She made, she was I think raised around it. I think so. Yeah. And because I think if she was truly old money, I don't know if she'd be on the show, but she definitely has like her, her childhood, well, she wasn't in her childhood has. But when she went back to Augusta, it was definitely a nice home, but I'm sure that was funded by everything. In fact, we actually went to her childhood home. Yeah, it was sort of like a middle class. Yeah, middle class, right. Middle class. But I think she was around it. You know, I was raised, I was not raised with a silver spoon, but I was raised around that. So I understand that world and how it, like how that world speaks and behaves and moves. I think she does too. And so she does in a way that the women in Beverly Hills do not. And so there's some interesting friction there as well. I mean, Kyle, Kyle, Kathy, they all are new money. Kathy has picked up the most lessons from old money. Kathy has new money. She truly does. Yeah, although she married into old money, quote unquote, well, like I guess old for a definitely LA old money. Correct. Yeah. Is cost old money? No, no, no, no. Yeah, not a Rockefeller, but enough that it would put you in a different social category than somebody who, you know, just kind of like went to a nice guy. She learned, she learned how she had to act and behave. And she like, carries that forward. And this is that's like as much of an old money as LA can be. Although, I mean, Pasadena has has old money. Yeah. But for Beverly Hills, like Kathy Elton is definitely old money-ish. Yeah. And I think it explains Sutton's seemingly her obsession with being friends with Kyle, because I feel like Kyle offers her some protection. Like a sheep protector from staying on the show if she's in her front circle. But I feel like because Kyle's the emotional mayor that when Sutton kind of breaks down, Kyle is always like, well, she's going through a hard time. And I think she relies on that in order to kind of stay in the in the circle. Well, Sutton's also probably just always been insecure, which is probably always felt like an outsider. She has a strong willed mother who like that probably was like a lot. And she is, she, you know, she just wants to be accepted in the in crowd. She probably never quite was in the ink frow and maybe when she was dropped by her husband, it was just further evidence that like she wasn't enough for people. And so she goes to Kyle, who was like the ringleader of the circus. And she's like looking for Kyle's acceptance. And all of us watching are like, why why? Why? Because you know, you know, you're friends with Kathy, but for some reason she wants, she wants to be accepted by the cool girls, which is something like deep that like is hard to shake in life. Like you have. And I think that especially because she's sort of vulnerable. I think she's been shattered by this this relationship. And it's funny because when I watch Beverly Hills, it feels like there's the Kyle circle. And then sort of off camera, there's the Kathy circle. And suddenly it's kind of part of the Kathy circle, actually. There's like these women who go and they hang out with Kathy. And we hear back from them, like, oh, I was like Kathy, I was talking to Kathy, there's like Kathy's house. And so you have sort of like this almost like, that is like the old money crew thing with Kathy. But I think almost as they're a feeling of like we don't want to be seen as old bitties who are just like ladies who lunch, we want to be doing something young and hip like with Kyle. I don't know. I know that's a good question. Erica, a little bit calmer this season. Of course, we know she's in a relationship that we will never find anything out about on the show, which seems completely hypocritical. She kind of seems like like a late stage capitalist diva. Maybe who's trying to remain kind of mythic. Like, I don't really have to give you anything about myself. But what you should know about me is I could buy, at least when she came on the show, I can buy and sell all of you under the table. And now of course, things have switched. So I feel like she's kind of in a limbo phase right now. Erica, I think she's trying to be an archetype. I think she's trying to be just the fabulous gay icon who doesn't give a shit. She is trying to be the Lucille Bluth. She is trying to be the elixir almost. She's just trying to be or like a Betty Davis. But the problem is it's like a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. It's like the simulacrum situation. Yeah. Where it's doesn't, it just doesn't feel authentic to me. I believe that there's certain things that she has definitely settled in at the I don't give a shit more authentically over the years. When she first came on, she's like, I don't give a shit. And like, I think you do. I think you do. I think you do. And I think that she has actually started to move towards not giving you shit about certain things. Because I think that she's gone through so much that it has actually like, it has made her older and not older. But like, it has built the walls up around her, which is what those women act like that. The famous icons act like that because they've gone through shit. You know, I know she's really gone through some shit. But the problem with Erica is it's hard to, like I think she's trying to be one thing. But we still don't really know who Erica is. Well, I think that's why she wears all of the over the top outfits because it provides like a psychological and sociological barrier. You don't, you know, she's hoping people will ask more about the clothes that she wears and the accessories than how she really feels. And because that were to require introspection. And that seems like something she's not interested in doing. Well, I also think like she sort of vassalates between two personas. One persona is like I'm a girls girl. I'm your best friend. I'm going to give you the tough level you need it. I'm going to be in support when you need it. Like, if you come to me to tell me about like how you just got laid last night, I'm going to tell you how I got laid. Tell me about a dick. Tell me about a dick size like this is girl time. And oh, the guy left you will fuck him. She's going to be like that like Rizzo, you know, right, right, right. But then she's like tries to like high art and like it does not like the high art, like the cost me and everything. It just, it doesn't feel it just it's to me it was never that interesting. It's sort of funny when she she has certain looks. But it's like she's she but then she's trying to be like ice queen modern. She gaga. And I'm like that's a persona you're putting on. And it seems actually if anything like the more authentic version of her is that kind of like how best friend reliable best friend. Maybe she's afraid to be that way. Maybe because it's like she she's pouring herself into other people. But like there's nothing going on with her, you know, but it's annoying because she just she's so guarded. And I think that she I think the arrival of Erica was when this show started to face some real significant issues because she came on being very guarded. And I think when one person comes on to reality show and they're guarded, then other cast members say, well, if she's not sharing well, why should I have to put myself into this show? If she's not. So I'm going to just pick and choose what I show. And I think it's like really bad for shows. And suddenly it became about glam. And it came as highly curated. So first race. Yeah. And that's why that's why I say when Sun came around, she couldn't curate what you know, the way the others could. She could self-produce because she could barely control her emotions. And we needed that so badly. You know, I agree. I would love to know what you think about Amanda. Oh, well, there's so many words. I mean, she's obviously grifter. She leans into buzzwords. She's, she is. How does one describe her? She's a feeling she's like internet capitalism meets like a wannabe guru. Yeah. And I, but I also feel like sociologically, why don't I think sociologically, but it feels like she's in the role of like kind of bratty kid sister. And she's come in like it's almost like her big sister has her friends over. So she comes into the room and it's like once in my toy, I got my toy. She wants to sort of show off things. And she wants to be in the mix. And I mean, I'm really what it's piece of is like rampant insecurity. Like if you're talking that much about stuff, it's you are, you are sad on the inside. And she would say, I'm actually very happy. I'm feeling very secure. And that's why I say it. But I think it's actually sadness. Unless, I mean, maybe the producers are telling her just, just brag. We want you to brag. And she's just following orders that that could be it. But either way, she's sort of giving like kids his survives. Yeah, she's also kind of like a bully vibe too. Like somebody who went to middle school with who says things in such a direct nasty cruel way. But, but, but kind of couches it as like, I'm giving you what you need. Yeah, but she's also like freshman year bully because because the true cool girl is Rachel. So and that's what Rachel is doing there. And she's like, who is this? Because Rachel's though works and and moves in the world of true celebrity. Not just reality TV celebrity. She is with a listers. Yeah. They are her friends. That's who she mixes and mingles. She is a true cool girl. And you just see her energy when she's around like the cool girls. She is good. She has like a certain energy. And when she's around someone she doesn't like, she just tightens up. And I think that Amanda probably desperately wants to be in with Rachel. So she wants to be a bit Rachel's part of the social structure, but the social structural will never accept somebody who she's so outside the system. I mean, they don't even understand what she does for a living. They don't. And she is, yeah, I think she's just sort of giving kids that sort of we're looking at this in high school. Rachel's though is like, she runs the she's Parker Posey and Daisy and confused. Yeah, she runs the show. Kyle, Kyle, I think she's like the Regina George, but Rachel's though is the one who's like the popular girl that actually everyone in the school really likes. Yeah, she's a little cigarette with the Palazzo pants and the gold chains. Yeah, because the thing is this, like the the be all think like, oh, the pop most popular girl is the minus one, but there's like a strain of popular girls who's popular because everyone likes them. And so Rachel's though is just sort of like comes in confidently. She has years of fame under her, you know, under his sleeve and on her resume. And she's just like cool girl doesn't impress anyone. They all automatically love her. And she knows that she's loved and she knows that she can reverse different worlds. And Amanda's just there, like a kid who just wants to be sitting at the table. I also feel like when Rachel shares things that are personal, it really she feels like she's letting you into her world. Like it would be no difference between her sitting at the end of the table or in a therapist's office. Whereas I feel like Amanda feels like everything that she says is scripted for you to buy a seminar. Right. But also like Rachel understands the rules of the world. Like so you see Rachel, you see Jennifer Tilly, these like they can do a flex and it's effortless and it doesn't feel bragging. It feels like extension of their interests and their love of things. When Jennifer Tilly walks into a party and she shows off her ring, you're not like, oh my gosh, she's so bragging. You know what you sense is someone who's like an enthusiast who loves collecting these things who hunts it down. And I think because she's whimsical about it. Yeah. And you also get the sense that like there's some thoughtfulness and artfulness put into how she composed herself that night. She's like, I decided to put on this ring and I know something about it. I know the story about it. Like there's like a there is the authority. She has like authority about these things that you really respect. And same with Rachel Zell when she talks about fashion, she knows what fashion is. True. And so like you don't feel like she's just buying labels and being like, look what I'm wearing. And that's actually where to read is. So that's why to read is also like in a different tier because it feels like she is label mania. And I do think that she actually knows fashion. I think that to read is very fashionable. But Rachel, if you feel like she lives in a different way, but Amanda Frances just comes on just wearing all the baton and with the big labels. All the labels. Yeah. I think if Amanda Frances were not on this cast, there would be many more problems between Rachel and Doree because I feel like Doree would feel as if she was like on her turf. Like I was known as the fashionista. And so chic and all of these things. And now you've kind of ruined that. But I think Amanda has kind of offset that. I don't think so. I think Doree would just cozy up to Doree. I think she I think Doree recognizes that Rachel is the next tier up. I think she comes to Rachel. She gets fashion credit from being near Rachel, etc. So I think that's what I wouldn't see. Which is why Amanda is actually good for the show because I think they are all be very comfortable and they just be just showing like you don't have a minor skirmishes here and there, but it would basically be about like what's your look? What's your look? We all should talk about both. Yeah, let's talk about both. Because both she actually is the girls girl that Erica. I don't want to say Erica tries to because I actually do kind of think Erica might be a girl. She's selective who she allows us to be that right. Yeah. But I think like Bose, it's almost like again, Erica's almost trying to be the girls girl that Bose is like for me, Bose is like very naturally a girls girl the way in the most recent episode that Marisa sat down at the table. And like he meets Bose and almost immediately she's like, by the way, I started with the club and I was texting Kyle because I saw you with the girl and I was talking. That was her way of being like, I love you. It's the Kyle and I'm watching you. And I was like, that is a friend right there. That is a friend. And to confront him and not to say that, like, you know, when you get in the car, like, by the way, I wanted to say it to him, but I didn't because I didn't want to embarrass you or I didn't want to make it uncomfortable. She's like, no, I'll just I will say it to you. But I think her level of success in the corporate world is refreshing because I'm sure a lot of women who've been in that position have tried to be on this show, but she's got a warmth to her coupled with kind of being outside of that with this corporate success that I feel like it's a it's a really good fit. She also knows like, I don't know, I feel like she's had life experience. That's very different from these women in terms of corporate, like being in the corporate world. You deal with people differently. You deal with different ways of communicating with people. And you just, I don't know, you also deal with very smart people. And sometimes I'm not always, like, I don't know if I was like a Kyle Richard would be like, that's a smart lady. I think that she's smart. But I don't think like, you know what, she doesn't seem to me like she has, what's the right word to say? Because it's not like, well, I know what you're saying because smart, but there's like, I feel like I say that too a lot. Like, none of them, I'm obviously come from a corporate world because a corporate world, you have to manage your own emotions. You had to figure out ways to work with other people. You have to manage communication skills. And I think a lot of them who come from a world where maybe they were just, you know, the wife that it's probably hard for them to adapt to the dynamics of the group dynamics. Yeah, she hasn't had to navigate certain things that you would get in the corporate world. And that's not bad or good, but she just hasn't had to. But I feel like Kyle almost thinks that I feel like Kyle thinks that she has. You haven't. And so, Bose has had to navigate that. And what was good about Bose last season was that she was sort of checking people lightly. She was new. So she wasn't going overboard, but she was keeping an eye on everything. And she sort of settled into, she's a little bit, she's sort of passive this season because she's doing her own thing with IVF and whatnot. I think she's so in her own world about that and God bless because I think that if you go through that, you really have to truly have to protect yourself. Yes, exactly. But I mean, it looks like she is adhering up to, you know, to, to maybe check Amanda Frances. We saw that she checked Mauricia, which is good. But I think like Bose, Bose, it weighed like Bose's archetype is almost like the career woman, you know. And like, she's she's on the world. She's dealing with whatever that entails. But, but I feel like she's been, she should be more present this season. And that's a, it doesn't know for the producers, not a no for Bose. But I feel like they should be centering Bose. I think Bose is the future of this franchise. I think Bose, he's sat in, they may have been giving her the grace though, not to add, added stress. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. But I just, I don't know. I think I think Erica's, I think Erica's a problem for the show, believe it or not. And I've heard that she's actually a great person. I've heard that she's wonderful. But I just, she's not, she doesn't give, she doesn't give. It's like not enough to see her, like doing household chores. It's like a nice, it's cool to see you're being like relatable, celebrity, they're just like us. But we need someone who's just a little bit more forthcoming about their life. Let's go back a few years ago where she was just straight up villain. And she was going through sure. And she was just, that was, that was her thing. She was the villain. And, and because that was actually like, she was a bit more emotional during that time. And I don't know, I just, I just, I think that, I think that like, the, the energy on Bravo is for their real housewives to give a bit more emotionally. And this cast does not, they hold back. And it's, it's weird because they probably would say we don't hold back. We, we're, we give our, we throw ourselves into it, but we can all pick up on something there. And it's starting to feel like Beverly Hills is like a little bit out of step with the rest of what's going on with Bravo. And so, like, we found. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, you know, Bravo is never going to get rid of college richards. So I'm not going to call for them to get rid of college richards. It's just, it's a waste of time. But I do think it's like, you need to get some more people on the show who are willing to be confrontational and high stakes. Mm-hmm. High stakes and, and not be afraid to be an agitator, you know? Yeah. Well, I love spending time with you. And I appreciate it. And, I mean, isn't this the best that we can just like, tuck away and just talk about all these great characters because we've been watching these shows forever. Feel like you and I stick in bandana on the street. That's right. Walking the streets, talking about this stuff for years. And I'm also grateful for your friendship and your time. Tell everybody where they can listen to you guys and follow you. Well, you can listen to our podcast, Watch Your Crappens. On any podcast platform. And our Instagram is at Watch Your Crappens. You can also follow me personally at Ben Mandelker on Instagram. I also have a food substack. If you like a king and what not, that's called MBD fancy. That's MBDfancy.substack.com. And if you are really, if you're a real nerd like I am, I've started up a YouTube channel for board games. And that's called table scraps. So go check that out. Nice. Thanks for having me. Love you too. I want to thank my great guest Ben and remind you to make sure that you click subscribe. Please leave a five star review. Join the Facebook group. Reality life with KKC. You can get bonus episodes on Apple podcast and on Patreon. PATReoN.com. BackslashKKC. Also my What to Watch list is available at kkc.substack.com. And make sure you follow from my social media. I'm on Instagram at at KKCCA Tiktok. It's KKC and Twitter threads and Blue Sky at at KKC. Check back tomorrow for an all new episode.