EP: 410 The Return of the King with John Bevere

I know we don't know the day or the hour, but Jesus absolutely said we would know the season. No other century has been able to say, in the 12th century they weren't able to say, well, Israel has its land. Because there's got to be a temple and there's got to be a place where they're doing sacrifices that this man of sin can walk into and stop the sacrifices and set up a sacrilegious object inside of the temple. That has to happen. There has to be an Israel for this to happen. There is now an Israel. There is now Jerusalem under the control of Israel. And so I believe we are in that generation. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. I'm going to assume at least one person is right because if one person's right it busts the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen church. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. John, how many books have you written? This is 25. The thing we're really excited about, guys, and I'm not asking you to say anything, but they've sold probably close to 10 million or more. But what we're really excited about is 16 years ago the spirit of God just literally flooded my basement after a round of golf. And he said, you've been faithful to the English-speaking community. I want you to get your books in the hands of pastors all over the world who can't afford them. So I'm like, what? And so now 16 years later, you look at the grace of God and it just knocks me over. We have given away over 65.5 million resources to pastors and leaders and 243 nations and 146 languages. So we built an app. We put $40 million into the app. And the app is like first class. It is the number one app in the world in languages. YouTube's like number six in the world in the 80s. We're at 146 languages. So we have 12,000 users in Saudi Arabia alone. Saudi Arabia, where it's illegal to have a church. We've given over 4 million resources to Iran. I mean, in the underground church in Iran, it's just been the greatest joy to see how God has opened the doors for this. And of course, you could never do it unless God tells you. We're rolling, right? Okay, good. Keep that. We'll let you introduce the show. Yeah, no way. No way. Yeah, that's awesome. That's a heck of an intro. Yeah, that is a heck of an intro. Let's start the show because I want to, like folks that listen to our show don't really know who you are or what you do. We love to start there. We can retell that story too. But kick it off, Nate. Yeah. You don't usually wear a hat. It's to the slatness. The slatness. The red lettuce. Yeah, you know, you got to like bring it back. The short hair was in for a while. It was. A little while. It's coming past your ears. You're looking good there too. You see, he's got it. I'm not joining. Yeah. Yeah, Luke's going to grow his hair out. Angelic lettuce is coming. And then we got to cover our heads because it tempts the angels. Yeah, I think the angels had long hair. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the basement. You know, this is analog. I don't know what you were doing in the 80s, John, but welcome to blurry creatures basement. We try to recreate the best decade there ever was. 70s. 70s? Yeah. You know, the best part is, is the 70s spilled into the 80s. So we got a lot of the cool leftovers. We had the better music there. You guys had a lot. Yeah. I mean, that was those 20 years, baby. We'll let the 70s hang with us today. But you're a best selling author, bold communicator. Welcome. You got a new book out. Are you ready for the return of Jesus? The King is coming. Yeah, we're excited. But we have to ask you, what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? What do you think about that? You're a Colorado guy. So guys, let's, let's face it, as believers, Bigfoot shouldn't surprise us at all. There were Nephilim in the times of Noah. Yeah, baby. When angels came and had sex with women and had children. And these were giants. You're on it, man. You were on it, John Bavir. Guys, a lot of people are like, well, no, the giants weren't eliminated by the flood. No, they weren't. What do you think David fought? And that guy had five brothers and one of them had six fingers and six toes. And, you know, so this is God we're talking about. This is the one that the angels cry holy and literally shake an arena that maybe seats over a billion people in heaven. All they're doing is responding to what they see and they cry holy. I mean, they're not, they're not singing a song. We made a song out of that, right? Yeah, we did. They're not making God feel good about himself. They're literally responding to what he sees. They see every moment and other facet of his glory is revealed and they cry holy. So the Bible tells us that he created everything seen and unseen and I'm happy. I happen to believe the unseen world is much larger than even the seen world. And so what would be Bigfoot? It could be a Nephilim. It could be some kind of a, it's not angelic. It's demonic, I believe. And so, yeah, I have no problems with it. Yeah, I like that. Dude, that's a track in John. Well, I mean, we use it as like a way, a gateway to learn how to believe the blurry things, learn how to understand some of the weirdest stories in the Bible. I mean, I think modern day sightings, the most people, the thing that, the weirdest thing that people see the most of is Bigfoot. You know, I, but I guess, I mean, a lot of people have been emailing us lately. It seems like UFO sightings. Oh, UFOs are, and what do you do? What do you do with chariots of fire? I mean, these are the angels of God. So why do they need a chariot? This is the... Okay, why? Why is Elijah not just taken up? Why does he have to go in a chariot of fire? Yeah. What's this flying scroll that Zechariah sees? Yeah. So, so he's never seen anything... Well, people don't want to say that's actually, that's just a metaphor for like, it's just a noun. Oh, gosh. Or it's allegory or yes. Why do people go to metaphors? Iconography, yeah. I know. So, I mean, what are these, what are these creatures or machines that John sees that is hair like women, stings like scorpions, people want to see death, but they're not allowed to. Right. So how is John supposed to describe anything that he's never seen before? Because he's never even seen a flying craft before. We didn't see flying things until, you know, as far as mankind, what we made until the early 20th century with the Wright brothers and some of the others who invented airplanes. So... We had hot air balloons and... Yeah. Oh yeah. Hot air balloons. Okay. I guess we can go back to 18... And Zephyrs had a real short self-life before the Hannonburg. But what I'm saying is there was nothing in the air except birds when John was around. So how's he supposed to describe all this? Yeah. You know? Yeah. And how's Zechariah supposed to do it? So, you know, Zechariah is Elisha supposed to describe this chariot of fire. Yeah. So, yeah. I think sometimes people become very close-minded and when in reality, when you meet God, you should actually be expanded in what you expect and it shouldn't shake you. Well, we find that we run into a lot of people who want to put everything into boxes. And I think that what you have is you have this exploding new age religions because they've had all these paranormal experiences and the church sees... Or they're looking for it. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't know how to make sense of them. And they go to the people in the Christian church and asking questions, well, I had this big foot show up. Or I saw this UFO or this light came down and I felt... And then they're like, no, that's not real. That's not... And I think if you're dismissive and you relegate things to this corner, it doesn't help the gospel. It gets people to search outside of the gospel for answers. And so we like to define things here and that gets a little bit heated, you know? Well, we have to always remember Satan doesn't say he can transform himself into an angel of light. He does. It says he does. Yeah. So the whole thing is deception. Yes. And the reason I... We just did a podcast. Isn't that how he was made? I mean, that's what he is. Yeah. And then he just says, loyalty has changed. Yes. I mean, I don't know, do you think his physicality changed too? Or is he still the same? Or is he just moonlighting as a good guy? I don't know. But if he can transform himself, that means he can take different forms that I do know. See, one thing that you're going to learn with me immediately is if I don't know the answer, I'm going to tell you I don't know. Yeah. I don't want to ever tell somebody that I can say conjecture. I can use that word. But I believe that the Bible says he does transform himself. He can take different appearances. And the thing I would like to make very, very clear to everybody is the Bible says that we are to set our sights on the realities of heaven. We are to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, the author and finish of our faith. So the thing I always say to people is, don't be surprised by this stuff. Yeah. And it's okay to investigate. But it's like Jesus said, don't be so all excited that the demons are subject to you in my name. They are. You know, and I've seen manifestations of demons all over the world. I've watched human beings crawl up like a snake, literal snake, a woman in Indonesia. I've seen the supernatural strength that comes on people when demons inhabit them. So don't rejoice that they are subject to you in my name. He said rejoice that your names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. So I think there's a real purpose. The scripture tells us keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, the author and finish of our faith. And that's what, yeah, that's what we just had this conversation recently. We were actually talking about the UAP UFO thing as we sort of started here. And the guess we had on is privy to a lot of these conversations that are going on between government and NGOs and aerospace. And his whole thing was like, there's a lot that's going to be revealed and it's real. But none of this, this all pales to the importance of the gospel and of Christ if we keep Christ at the center. Correct. And I love that. That's what we try to do here. But you've got a new book, King is Coming, which is about the return of Jesus again. But John, for folks that aren't so familiar with you or what you've written, this is book 25, we talked pre-roll. Yeah. You've been 40 years of ministry. But can you kind of tell folks what you're doing, what you've done? You were telling some really amazing story on before we got, we started the show about, you know, God showing up after a round of go. Which is man, I used to love playing golf before. It's been four years and I have an almost four year old. So this is my season of life right now. But yeah, just can you share a little bit about the ministry you do and your journey so they can have a little bit of a foundation before we jump into, you know, why write a book about the return of Christ, which we'll get to. Sometimes investing feels like gambling, but with Stash's smart profile, your money is guided by experts and it gives you peace of mind and you can watch it grow. Now Stash is just not another investing app. It's a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with expert personalized guidance. So you don't have to worry about gambling or figuring out on your own. 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I played Purdue at Purdue University. Boilermakers. Yes I did. What did you play? Pardon me? What did you play? I played tennis. I was number six man on the team. And so I played the USDA circuit and junior Davis cup. So I'm on a tennis court four to six hours a day growing up. Still. No. I actually came back from our spring road trip. We played the Carolinas. We played Tennessee, Kentucky, those schools in those areas. And I flunked a physics test. And so I was studying mechanical engineering. And I hated. And I can't say this any stronger. Hated English. Creative writing. Foreign language. You're written. The irony. You're going to make it. I literally scored 370 on the SAT in English, which I've only met two human beings in my entire life that scored lower than me. It would take me four hours to write a one page paper. So when God comes to me in 1991, I'll never forget it. It was like 5.30 in the morning. I was in a cul-de-sac praying. My car was there. It was a construction area. So I was all by myself. And the Lord said, I want you to write. And I'm like, okay, you have so many kids now. You're getting us confused with one another. You don't want me to write. All you have to do is talk to my high school English teachers. And he said nothing. And I took his silence as an agreement to my rebuttal. So I do nothing. 10 months later, two women come to me from two different states in the United States. And they say the same words. They said, John Bavir, if you don't write what God's giving you to write, he'll give the message to somebody else. And one day you'll stand in judgment for it. When the second woman says it from the state of Texas, two weeks after the first woman from Florida, the fear of God hits me. So I got a notebook piece of paper. Remember, this is 91. We didn't have iPads. So I got a notebook paper. I got a Sharpie and I wrote a contract. I wrote a contract with God. I said, God, I think you're making a massive mistake. I don't know how to write. So I need grace. And I signed the contract. And now the books today are, they've sold probably over 10 million. Wow. They're in 146 languages in the world. I know Beta-Satan just passed 140. Beta-Satan just passed 6 million copies two years ago. But that's not what I'm really excited about because in 2011, I played the round of golf. I came in and the Spirit of God, it was, it was a memorial day. And Lisa was in England speaking at a big women's conference. My, my, my sons were out of the house. Spirit of God filled my basement. One of those times that you can count on one hand, literally the presence of God is like a fog in my basement. And he spoke and he said, you've been faithful with the English speaking community. I want you to get your resources in the hands of every pastor in the world that can't afford them. I'm like, what? And I knew John the Baptist's dad went deaf when he kind of questioned God. So I thought, I'm not going to question him. Like I'd like to hear. How in the world, how do, how in the world do you do this? So I walk into a meeting with our directors a couple of months later and I said, guys, how many books did we give to pastors over seeds last year? And they go 33,000. I said, that's pathetic. This year we're going to give away 250,000. The whole room went silent. My wife to this day describes it as she tasted it up in her mouth. And our CEO argued with me for 20 minutes. And finally I just pounded my fist out of the table. I said, we're doing this. I said, when it's not up for discussion, we're doing this. Yeah. Well, that year miraculously we gave away 271,700 books to pastors and leaders in 48 nations and 44 languages. The next year it went to 1.3 million. The next year it went to 2.7 million. And next year it went over 4 million. We just passed 6.6 million resources that we have given to pastors and leaders in 246 nations of the world. What's the hardest country to get books into? North Korea and Saudi Arabia would be definitely, but we have users, we have over 12,000 users on our app in Saudi Arabia. Now we've not been able to get the physical resources into either one, but they've downloaded it and we know that from Google analytics and how in the world we got in there, I have no idea because it's against the law to even have a church meeting in those countries. But yet we have users that are using them. It's crazy. It is. I don't think modern people even understand you can't even get a book into North Korea. You have to smuggle it. Yeah. And you're going to lose your life if you get caught. Really? Yeah. In Iran we've done over 4 million resources. I actually just met with the leaders in Iran in 2024. Lisa and I went over to speak to 5,200 leaders in Yervan, Armenia, which is just 30 miles from Iran. And so we had leaders from Syria, from Afghanistan, from Iran, all over the Middle East there and Central Asia. And we were meeting behind closed doors because these guys' identity has to be kept secret. The leaders showed me a picture of immigration in Tehran. And they said, do you see the picture on the wall? I said, yeah. He said, that's your book, The Beta Satan. And there's a sign under it that says this is illegally being distributed. And I said, okay, so I can't like go to Iran. They said, are you kidding? No way. Wow. So, you know, but I'm amazed at the grace of God. And, you know, I look at what you guys do. Let me just say this. My team was like, oh my gosh, you're going to blurry creatures. I really love those guys. And my sons and my wife, my wife. And so I want to say, guys, you are really impacting a lot of people. And thank you. Thank you for glorifying Jesus with the amazing way you have to communicate. And God has given you, obviously, a niche, just like he's given all of us. And you're being really faithful to it. So you're impacting a lot of people. Thank you. Thanks, John. It means a lot. I think it's a change. There's someone who's given away millions of resources. I mean, the impact, that's a lot of people. That's a guy who knows I couldn't do a thing. It reminds me of the story of Moses though, right? Like, not to say like John Pavir and Moses, but like the, it's always impressive on me that God calls us oftentimes to do things that we are at least qualified for, because it reflects his glory and his power more than ours, right? Well, I thought that, you know, the, Moses can't talk and you're like, hey, go talk to the Pharaoh. I mean, I think we thought that paranormal crowd would really like the podcast. And I think it's actually kind of flopped. I think the Christians actually really embraced it. Lipped or flopped, maybe both. Flopped, like in terms of, like, I don't know if... No, there's a lot of believers that absolutely love you guys. Yeah, and I definitely think... You're not scared by the unknown. You're not scared by the out of the box. Yeah. And if God is God, if he's this great God, how can there not be out of the boxes? Yeah, 100%. But the thing is we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus. Yes. Well, I mean, it's hard because I think a lot of people use language like NPCs to describe a lot of the stuff going on in the church, you know, like there's just these topics that just get glazed over. And I think there were a lot of theologians in the 90s and like Dr. Michael Heiser. Yeah. He almost got frustrated, you know, so he would go to UFO conferences and you'd start talking to them. He's like, those people actually want to talk about these things. The church is still very much behind. So I think, I mean, in a way, it was good for us because it was ripe. Everyone was ready for the blurry discussion, obviously. Yeah. Chuck Missler was like blowing the show for in the 90s on some of this stuff, but... But people are like mad at those guys because they're sort of shaking the system a little bit. So we just appreciate that because it's been a weird burden to carry because you don't know, you're talking about so many unknown things. You're not always sure, is this legit? Is this not legit? I would just say, guys, what's fact fact and what's truth truth and what's conjecture? Yeah. Keep them all in that category. And let's talk. Right. I mean, God gave us brains and he gave us brains to think, not to be scared of stuff. I'm not scared of anything because I know in whom I've believed. I know who he is. So nothing scares me. He's Lord. Yeah. He's the king of the universe. He is the creator of the universe. So nothing scares me. Yeah. And obviously, things are getting crazy in terms of the return of Christ. I mean, we have all this paranormal activity creeping up. We've got all these signs and obviously... We just talked about a pofis recently on the show, which is like... There's so much going on. So, I mean, listen, John, you've written on holiness, honor, I mean, beta-satan, you've written on these vast topics. You're an evangelist, obviously, you're getting the word of Christ out. But you know why? Yeah. The New Testament says weird stuff's going to happen when Jesus comes back. And what was specifically compelling you to write about the return of Christ? It's kind of comical. It's really comical. Do you know that until this year, I've not preached a message on the second coming in the church in four decades? Okay, I turned 67 this year, right? But it's been... What was it? It was a hot topic back in the 80s. 99 reasons. That's where I'm going. Yeah. Edgar Wynes that writes this book, 88 reasons of why Jesus has come back in 1988. I buy its hook line in Sinker. Totally. Right. My wife is like, uh-uh. All my friends buy it. Well, September 88 comes and goes and I see the fallout. I see the devastation. Then I see the arguments about pre, post, mid. I see a millennial, a millennialism, post millennialism. And I'm like, I don't like this. I don't like it at all. It creates too much arguments and there's too much controversy and ambiguity. I'm staying away from it. People would actually say to me, don't you preach on the second coming? I'm like, no, I'm not called to. Well, in 2005 years ago, God puts it in my heart to get into the word of God on the second coming. Guys, I didn't spend hundreds of hours. I spent thousands of hours. And all of a sudden I started seeing fruit in my personal life that actually was good. I became much more passionate about ministry, much more passionate about winning souls. My family said you become kinder. My wife said, I like this version of my husband, the best I've ever been married to. We've been married 44 years. And all of a sudden I realized, wait a minute. Well, then when you investigate, you find out the second coming is the second most talked about subject in the entire Bible. Second most written about subject by early church fathers. It is one in every 30 verses in the New Testament. This seven year tribulation is the most written about time period in history from the Bible. So here's what comes through to my mind. Okay, so right engineering mind. Why would God talk about this so much? What is the wisdom behind it? On blurry creatures, you often hear biblical stories from a different perspective and it changes the way that you understand that story. And if you ever thought about the story of the cross, most of us have heard it from just one perspective. What about the cross itself? What if the cross could tell you a story? There's a new book out by Tim Tebow called If the Tree Could Speak and it does exactly that. It gives your kids a different perspective on the cross itself. Yeah, and it's, you know, if the tree could speak, it's exactly that story. It's like what if the cross could tell the story of the crucifixion. And Tim Tebow created a beautiful book that really walks through the entire experience of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. And as we sit here looking down towards Holy Week and to celebrate the resurrection, this book could be one thing that will stick with you and you make a new Easter tradition for your family. It's beautifully illustrated. In fact, my favorite part is that moment of it is finished. It's this really cool scene where it goes dark and everybody's going, what is happening here? And you get this really fresh look at a story that maybe all of us have heard thousand times growing up in church or even just going to church on Easter Sunday. And this is really like hearing it again for the first time. It's the illustration that really captures you and helps you immerse yourself in the story. And Tim Tebow did a great job with this book. I read it to my kids. We went through it one night and my oldest was asking a bunch of questions and it was really connected to him. And it was cool that we got a chance to do that with our families. So step inside the story, hear the witness and experience Easter like never before. Check out Tim Tebow's book, If the Tree Could Speak on Amazon. I'm going to go to Amazon now. That's If the Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow. Order your copy on Amazon today. And that's what I started out seeking and that's what this book is about. It shows you the wisdom of why God would talk so much about this and why I was wrong, really wrong to avoid it. Yeah. And so the King is coming in essence is not a book just on timelines, dates and all the blood moons and all of this. Although this is part of it. Yeah. It's more about being prepared because most people see it as an event. It's really much more an event. This is the wedding of the ages. If I can say without being irreverent, this is a low sick groom who literally died one of the most gruesome deaths you could even articulate. Who's so long to come and get his bride that he gave his life for and a bride that is loved sick for her groom. That's what this is a story about. So the thing is, if you look at all weddings of all ages, but if especially look at the Jewish wedding, the bride had responsibilities to prepare herself. She had to make her wedding dress, you know, it was just a couple of hundred years that we just basically go to the wedding rehearsal or the wedding shop and buy her wedding, her wedding dress. Yes to the dress. She had, yeah, she had to make it and it had to be glorious. I remember when Lisa walked into that church 44 years ago this October 2nd. I lost it. I said, I've never seen a site so beautiful in my entire life. Now, what if she would have showed up with an old ratty dress on with dirt and grimes and stains and what if she would have had no makeup on her hair was like up at a bun. It would have communicated me that this day wasn't very important to her. She spent two months. We were separate. I was in Dallas. She was in Indiana getting ready for that wedding and she was literally working on it more than 40 hours a week. So there's a scripture in Revelation that says the wedding of the lamb has come and the bride has made her self ready. For her, it was given to be a raid and fine linen clean and bright for the fine linen is the righteous works of the saints. We have been saved by grace. We could never earn a relationship with God. However, we have been given the ability all the different graces on our life to make ourself ready. And it appears to me that what the bride does in honor of her groom is the material that is makes the dress. If you look at that scripture, if you look at Matthew 22, the guy coming in not having on a proper wedding gown or a tire. So we have the responsibility by what using the grace and the gifts that God's put on our life to be able to build his kingdom, his bride on this earth. So look at what you guys are doing. You're very sincere. God's put a grace on your life. You're touching people. All of us have been given different graces, different abilities, supernatural abilities to touch people in certain realms. The question is, are we going to use what was given to us for our own benefit, our own glory, our own progress? Are we going to do it for the glory of our bridegroom? So when you talk about this book, when I was in college, let's go back to when I was a mechanical engineer in the 1980s. When I was a mechanical engineer, we didn't have cell phones, right? We didn't have them. So when finals, the dreaded finals we came. It was our responsibility to go to the engineering building and find out the building, the classroom, and the time of each of our finals. That took all of five or 10 minutes. I would compare that to talking about the blood moons, the famines, all the signs that Jesus talks about. What we spent hours and hours and hours of doing is preparing for the final. So when I walked into that final, I had confidence because I prepared. Yeah. If I didn't, chances are my dad saw the report card. I was going to be ashamed. So if you look at 1 John 2.28, it says, Dear children, let us remain an intimate fellowship with him so that when he appears. So he's only talking to dear children here, not all humanity. So the when he appears, we might have confidence in not shrink back in shame. If you look at Jesus talking about the bride maintaining her dress, he said so that you will not walk around naked and be ashamed. So you will see like there was one. Okay. My dad paid for my tuition at Purdue University. My dad never made over 45,000 a year, but he invested wisely and he paid out of state tuition for me to go there. Now, I took that serious because when we sat in the big lecture hall, our first day of our freshman year, our professor said to us, take a look at the guy on your right, the girl on your left, whatever, they won't be here next year. We will flunk them out. We will flunk out 50% of you. And then next year we'll flunk out another 50%. Sounds like buds, like the Navy SEALs. Like they're like, these guys aren't going to be here. I know. I know. I have Navy SEAL friends. So I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I took it serious. And I remember when that report card came, I had confidence because I took it serious. I really prepared for the finals. I made the Dean's list. But then a couple of semesters later, I joined a fraternity. Now you know where I'm going. Okay. So I got hung up with the keggers and all of that stuff. I'm not right. I'm not, I'm not, when that report card came, I had no confidence. And I remember when it came in the mail, my dad said, let me see it, son. And I handed it to him and I'll never forget the look on my World War II dads, quiet Italian face. And I never wanted to see that look again. And so there was one semester I was ashamed. And what I don't want to see is believers ashamed when he appears. I don't want to see the face that Lisa would see on me if she walked in with a dirty grimy dress. I'd say to me, the day wasn't important to her. And I don't want anybody having that look on Jesus face and them going, I didn't take this day seriously until the day of, the day of she might feel it. The day the report card arrived, I might feel it. So this book is more about being ready than it is about the signs and the wonders. How do you, how do you get ready? There's three things Jesus tells us. You know, the first thing I did guys, I went back to the first coming. Was there ambiguity? Was there uncertainty? Was there controversy? Was there market? Sure there was. Pharisees can't recognize the son of God when he's 30 years old, casting out demons. But then there's this group who you guys know, the Essenes. The Essenes took the word of God seriously. They are the ones that hid the scrolls in the caves of Khumaran. A lot of Bible scholars believe Simeon was an Essen. Simeon is in the temple. There's crowds every day in the temple. He does a beeline right to this little couple that's in their 20s or teens. They have a 40 day old baby. He lifts up the baby and goes, the Messiah. And I thought, he recognized him when he was 40 days old. They can't recognize him. And they could quote the first five books from the Bible, from memory, the Pharisees. They can't recognize him when he's 30 years old. He was in the sick, casting out demons and raising the dead. I'm like, okay, what is it about this guy that Simeon? And we got one verse. He was righteous, which means he pursued Godly living. He was devout, which means he feared God. And fear God doesn't mean you're scared of God. It means you're terrified of being away from God. And he was eagerly anticipating. Now the one that caught my mind was eagerly anticipating. Because Anna takes the same baby in that temple. And she talks to everybody who were eagerly looking for Messiah to come. She didn't talk to everybody in the temple, just the people were eager. So now look at what Jesus, and the word eager is really interesting. It's a Greek word that means you remain in a place of expectancy. You don't visit, you remain. So I'm gonna take a look at what Jesus tells us to get ready in a sluke 12. And Jesus said, keep your lamps burning. Stay dressed for service. And you'd be like those who are eagerly waiting for their masters to return. Same Greek word. And I'm like, what is it about this eagerly waiting? And I start seeing scriptures all over the New Testament. How about Paul talking about how you're eagerly waiting for him to come? All right. I mean, it's everywhere. It's all over the place. I put up just a few when I'm sharing on it. And it's like people's minds are blown. I never saw it in 47 years of reading the Bible until last year. And I thought, what is it about this eager anticipation? And what causes this to be eager? I mean, think about when your kid in Christmas time comes. Your parents put up the tree. You are counting the days until you get to open up presence. You are counting the hours the last week. Because you can't wait to open up those presence as a kid. This is my memory, right? So all I thought about was Christmas. I mean, you talk to me. If my mind's free, it goes to Christmas. When somebody's engaged, all they do is go to their fiance. They're getting married to their wedding day, right? We've all experienced that, right? What causes you is to set your sights on it. And so it's not a mistake that Paul said, set your sights on the realities of heaven. Okay, when I set my sight, it means when my mind's not required, it reverts back to where it's set. So you have to ask yourself, where did you remind Revert to constantly when it's not being required for a task in front of you? It goes back to where it's set. Now, why is this so important? Because John writes, who saw the book of Revelation, when he appears, when he appears, we're going to see him as he really is and all who had this eager expectation will purify themselves even as he is pure. I realized right then that being eager gives us the power. God knew this, to purify ourselves even as he's pure, to keep ourselves, keep our dress unspotted from the world. If you look at the opposite, Jesus talks about a second coming, right? In Matthew 24, then tells the parable, it says the servant who says my master delays his coming will begin to beat other servants and party and get drunk. In other words, putting off his coming causes you to become more fleshly. You gossip about other people, you slander other people, you refuse to forgive other people, now you're not prepared. That's what this message is about. You want to solve mysteries on Blurry Creature? How do you solve the mystery of what's for dinner, right? I think this conversation me and my wife have about four o'clock every single day. What's for dinner do we want to cook? And the easy button for this is Home Chef. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, recipe, ease. It makes cooking simple and they've got amazing recipes. If whatever you find a food you like, Nate, you can find it at Home Chef. You can order it up and it arrives at your door. And listen, what I've been eating lately, let me tell you. Sirloin steak and bacon, demi, jalapeno, popper chicken, you know, I like that spicy food, Nate. Tuscan style shrimp, pinae, and sweet chili pork lettuce wraps. There are a couple things that I've had. And listen, Home Chef makes it super easy to prepare. All you get, all the ingredients there, they're pre-measured, they're set up, fresh, and ready to go. And most of the time you can make a meal in about 30 minutes. You know, you're standing at that fridge and you think that you hope it's a portal and Gordon Ramsay comes through. He can't come through, but he co-created some of these dishes. So it's almost like he's there. So whatever day it is, you get classic recipes, fresh ingredients, 30-minute meals. Yeah, it's like Gordon Ramsay comes through your fridge, but he tells you you did a good job. Yeah, he does. He's not critiquing your cooking because he put it together. You're doing a great job, says Gordon Ramsay. That's right. So I know you're busy in the blurry verse, but for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box, plus free dessert for life. Go to HomeChef.com slash blurry. That's HomeChef.com slash blurry for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. HomeChef.com slash blurry must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. What's the difference between eagerness and faith? That's a really good question. Eagerness is hope. Hope is something that's in the future. Faith is something that's right now. Even though you don't see it, I believe I have it right now. I believe I'm saved right now, even though I don't see heaven, I don't see the streets, but somebody could cut my head off before I'm going to renounce what I believe in Jesus. Faith is the reality of things that we hope for. His coming is called the blessed hope, and that is very synonymous with this Greek word that means eager expectation. That was an amazing question because these are the three things that will never go away. Faith, hope and love. We talk about faith, we talk about love, but we rarely talk about hope. But this is our blessed hope, is the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because when we see him, we're going to be just like him. That's mind-blowing. Literally, the mightiest men on the earth are going to say, hey, rocks fall on me. Hide me from the face of him who's coming. But the thing is, Jesus said in that day, the righteous are going to shine like sun in their father's kingdom, and that we're joint heirs with him if we suffer with him. So in other words, we're going to look just like him. He's, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, because the disciples seemed to have one of those. They were a little bit eager, but they didn't really know it. They didn't have that faith yet, right? And obviously, the Pharisees had neither. They were like hardened. Their hearts were hardened. They couldn't have, they knew all the answers, right? And so there's people kind of in sort of transition of maybe they'll catch on to this message. Do you believe that that's who Jesus was trying to talk to? Is this people that might understand who he is? Yes. It's incredible that you could spend your whole life in the scriptures. Yes, Mr. Messiah. And then he's right there. And there's no internal voice because I think God speaks to us, right? So we should have some inkling. Something's going on here. People say they walk into a haunted house and they can feel the presence of evil. How could you not feel the presence of God? The Son of God in your midst. Well, in Emmaus they do. That's the crazy story, right? When the disciples walk with them on the road to Emmaus and they go, how do we not recognize them? Did not our hearts burn inside of us? Right? It's like, yeah. As you spoke the word to us. Yes. I look at, you know, I've been in ministry now 40, 43 years and every morning I get up and I open my Bible and say, Holy Spirit, please, please open my eyes. Every morning I spend time with him. Every morning I, you know, whether it's in the scripture or in other mornings I miss yes, and I don't make a religious thing out of it. I really want to meet with him first thing in the morning because I want my mind to be set straight for the day. Does it make sense? That's why David, I believe, said my voice, you'll hear in the morning. I think he had an intimate relationship with God. I think it was something where he was going to tell him. I think maybe Simeon had, like he knew, he was had a direct connection. And like, this is the baby. He's here. You know, I don't know. I think there's something wonderful about that. Well, okay. So he was righteous. Yeah. I'm going to put that in a term that everybody will understand. He pursued holiness. Yeah. Now here's the problem. You're the devil and you want to scar people with the most important words in the Bible. So you raise up legalistic preachers that beat people with their rules and regulations. And that's people's image of holiness. When holiness is nothing to do with rules and regulations, it's about being totally his. I have traveled all over the world, all over the world. I have over 12 million miles. I've never once thought my wife's not being faithful to me. When she gave her heart to me, she fully gave her heart to me. And I've never questioned her. So holiness is really about being his. You're completely his. So does Lisa Fleet flirt with old boy friends? No. Does she flirt with men? No. Does she give her phone number to men? No. When she walked down the aisle, she said goodbye to about 3 billion guys on the planet. Sorry about this. I didn't turn my phone off. But do you ever have moments where you're thinking of her and you're thinking of something and then she's, boom, you get the same message from her? Like you're communicating. Yeah. Because we're one. We're one. Now, this is that in the way that God communicates with his children. Yeah. I mean, do I have to say to my hand, hand, pick up my phone? No, my hand is so connected to my, my, my head that it knows my head wants to pick it up. Right. So do we hear voices? No. The number one way God leads us is by remaining in fellowship with him by the inward witness of his spirit. We sense something. Yeah. And it's like when I was asked to come on, I have so much respect on how you guys dig into the book of Enoch and all these other things and how you make it so clear. Hey, this isn't canonized scripture, but you've mined things out that have really helped people understand the crazy things. I mean, it's almost like God raised you guys up to prepare for the unveiling of UAPs and all big foot and all this other stuff. Right. So the people wouldn't lose their faith. Right. Well, that's what we talked about pre-roll. That's the biggest thing is that you talked about this film. It's out and one of the presuppositions or one of the conclusions of the idea of disclosure, not to take us, we're not going to go on this trail, but just to point this out, what you're saying is that they content that the unveiling of or the revealing of a truth of UAPs or UFOs is going to irreparably destroy religion. Right. And I think our contention is not at all. No way. We're not surprised by it. We shouldn't be. But I want to finish the thought because I want to say this because when my publicist at HarperCollins said to me, blurry creatures wants to have you on. You know, my first thought was how can what I bring help them? Because I actually question, I thought I almost didn't accept it because I thought I don't really match the gift that God's put on their life. But in reality, I do because why we all have passionate hearts for Jesus. And see, I've been around, I've been about people that are in ministry and have been in ministry for years that are really kind of similar to pharaceutical type of, and I can't connect with them. Why is it that I can come on a show like this and connect with you guys because we all really deeply love Jesus and we deeply love his church. And that's why we can have an honest, open conversation like this is because that's our foundation. The main thing is the main thing. It is the main thing. And everything else is, I think is part, as you said, is part of opening your mind to the realities. You said something really interesting that I, that I, he said it in an eloquent way, but the idea that what we don't see perhaps is way bigger and crazier than what we do. And that's kind of weak in town on the show is that like, we can't ignore this other aspect of reality because if that aspect of reality shows up, a lot of people are going to question their understanding of this reality, right? And I think we talked about Heiser, especially the, the anxious didn't have a separation, the understanding of the anxious, the writers of the, of the Old Testament and the writers of anything in that, in that space was these two things are unequivocally like combined. You can't separate them, but we, you know, our paradigm is different here. And this is what we're trying to say. And I think this fits in what you're talking about here. The King is coming. I think that oftentimes folks will get low to sleep in Christianity and the church that are just saying, we've got more time. We've got time. But I think what you're saying is like, there's a sense of urgency for, for a bride in this, in this metaphor, it's not a metaphor. Jesus is coming back for his bride, right? But it's the way we understand how this works that there's, there's this, there should be this urgency, whether Jesus returns and whatever, there's some people are predicting last year or 98 or 99 or this year or 30 years from now are the posture of our, our hearts and the way that we think about our faith and the way that we act that out, like whether we evangelize, whether we share the gospel should reflect that we, that Jesus could come back like a thief in the night tonight or tomorrow. Like that's, that's how I'm hearing right. That's how a bride operates. I was going to say like, I think to bring, to bring up the UFO disclosure thing is that you have a lot of these people in this space for years of saying disclosure is coming. Disclosure is coming, disclosure is coming, disclosure is coming. And you have a lot of people on both sides going, it's fake. It's not real. And then you have the people who've had the experience saying, no, it's not fake. Like the messaging might be twisted, but what, to relate that to the, to the biblical narrative is that people for a long time know the signs and the seasons and the, the details that Jesus is also going to return. And it's going to look like it's going to look in a certain way. So I know that's kind of ridiculous to compare the two things, but that's what's going on right now. You know, if you look at so many times in the New Testament, Jesus said four times in revelation, I'm coming quickly. The end of the world is coming soon. Peter writes in second Peter. Paul writes, he's coming quickly. James writes the same thing. Why did God do that to protect us? Because he knows there's a, there's a power to protect his kids from the onslaughts of this world. And man, with these things today, onslaughts are a hundred times more than when we were in the 70s and 80s. Sure. Right? Like it's, they're getting hit so much that it's removing their eyes from the glorious king to, you know, my boys in the 90s, you know, they're all men now. They're in their 30s. They were like Michael Jordan fanatics. Yeah. And, and, and I'm an athlete. I'm still an athlete. Okay. My wife laughs at me when I say I'm still an athlete, but I am. Okay. Yeah. I'll take on any 30 year old or 20 year old and pickleball in a heartbeat. But anyway, um, so, so. That's all I heard about. I mean posters, friends, and I got that up. So this church invites me on the east coast to preach on their Sunday morning. And they bring your family. And I thought, you know, we lived in Colorado at the time. I thought, yeah, this will be, well, the boys, man, the Atlantic was so stirred up that day. They were body surfing and getting the crap beat out of them. Okay. I'm sorry. I said, if you guys, I'm a lot worse than the show. Okay. So they're just getting plummeted, right? And the sands in their hair and their suits and all this. And finally they're utterly exhausted. Yeah. And we're going up to the room and I think now's my chance. And I said, babe, get them all in the bed. Cause I think the oldest was 14, the youngest was eight, something like that, or six, whatever. And they all get on the bed. They're wrapped in their towels. And I said, all right, guys, that's a pretty powerful ocean. And they go, oh my gosh, yes. I said, do you know if a meteor hits out there a hundred miles, it's just a hundred meters wide, or excuse me, a mile wide? I said, it will wipe out every single city on the east coast, every single city, New York, Jacksonville, every single one. Yeah. They're like, whoa. I said, it's pretty big in it. They go, yeah. And I said, you can only see a mile. That ocean goes 4,000 miles. I said, and there's a bigger one on the other side called Pacific. And there's two others beside that. I said, do you know that God weighed every drop of that water in the palm of his hand? They look at me and go, I said, here it is. It's in the book of Isaiah chapter 40. Okay. So they're like, whoa. I said, now you're impressed with this guy can jump from a 15 foot line and put a ball about that big into a hole about that big. And they said, oh my gosh, we got it. We got it. We got it. I said, you know what God's done? He's hidden His greatness from you, from you and me, to see if we would get off on the popular Hollywood actors, actresses, guru, businessmen, talented athletes, or if we would see His greatness in our hearts, because the Bible says His glory is revealed in our hearts. And I said, if you take that time and you turn in, you'll see it. And I said, it will make this stuff look fun, but it will sure remove the overwhelming draw. It pulls you away from His glory. And you know, we watched that him win another championship that year. Oh yeah. And we all enjoyed it, but he had a different place in their hearts after that one example. So Isaiah actually writes in Isaiah 45, 15, you are God who hides yourself. He is hidden His glory from us to see what we're going to do, if we're going to see the unseen, or if we're going to allow the scene to dominate our lives. So what about the people who say that Jesus has already showed up? Because you have so many different theories now. He already came back. You know, I mean, it's just endless rabbit holes in our space. Yeah, I know. Sometimes it gets exhausting. It is exhausting because Jesus said, His lightning shines out of the east and the scene in the west. I'll so shall the coming of man. He'll come in His glory and power in all nations. Remember the Bible says in Revelation 1.7, Behold, He comes in the clouds and every eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him. So believe me, when He returns, oh boy, everybody's going to be seeing Him. And even those under the earth are going to see Him. Those who drove the nails through His hands will see Him. So yeah, you can say that if you want, but where you're getting your theology, you've allegorized too much from the Bible. And actually, I think it was Ephraim or it might have been Polycarp said those who make this into figurative are those who are immature. So say like, you know, you're eagerly waiting for, you invite some people out of town to come to your house. Your house is clean, right? Yeah, you're prepared. You're prepared. How do you stay eager but not disappointed if they don't show up at the time that you think they're going to come? And I think that's what happened in the past in the 80s and all these books are written. It's coming. The reality is none of us are promised tomorrow. Okay. So I might meet him a lot sooner than I think and it might not be in the clouds. So is being eager and prepared a good thing? Yeah. For those who have gone the natural death way, there is a group of us. Paul said this is a mystery that the old prophets, Old Testament things didn't know, but we're not all going to die. Yeah. We're going to be changed in an atomic second, which Chuck Misler, who I absolutely loved, said is one in negative 10 to the negative 47th second, quantum physics says you can't divide time more than that. So that's how fast it's going to be. We're going to be changed and the dead in Christ are going to rise first. And so whether I meet him through the natural causes of death or whether I meet him in the clouds, I am not promised the next five minutes. Yeah. It is a gift from God to be here to glorify him, but I am living. I will not be disappointed and I don't care if I go to natural causes when I'm 95. I will not be disappointed, not even a little bit, that I stay this ready and this prepared, because that prepared me actually to go that way. John, beyond doctrine, because you talked about in the book, you know, we can parse everything as we sort of started the show talking about eschatology. You can set dates on all these things, but like the impetus of the book is to be ready. And in the book, you talk about intimacy with Christ is one of the keys to being ready. So like what kind of, when people say that, it feels amorphous, right? Like, of course, this is what you got to know, you're king. You, of course, you got to, what kind of practical, practically, I mean, how do you move from having like this information about Jesus and maybe the second coming and understanding these things to a place of intimacy with the king? And what does that practically look like? The Bible says in Psalm 25 verse 14, friendship with the Lord is reserved for those who fear him. With them, he shares his secrets. Wow, friendship. So in 1994, I was asked to go visit one of the most famous human beings on the planet. He was famous for all the wrong reasons. He had the largest television ministry in the planet in the 1980s. He was arrested. He was charged and sentenced. I'm sorry to say when that was going on, I was like, he's getting what he deserves. I was being pharaceutical, right? I was a jerk. I was being a jerk. Hmm. And he reads the first book I wrote called Victory in the Wilderness in prison. And he calls his assistants, says, or any way this man will come visit me. I said, sure, I'll go visit him. So my wife and I drove four hours. It happened. He was four hours away in the federal penitentiary. He comes out with all of his prison guard. And that man grabbed me. I mean, he's 20 years older than me. He grabs me, hugs me, won't let me go. And he looks at me and he said, we have so much to talk about and we only have 90 minutes. So we sit down and I'm looking at this man that I've never met before. And he goes, this prison wasn't God's judgment on my life. It was his mercy. I went, what? He said, yeah, John, if I would have continued living the way I was living, I would have ended up in hell separated from God forever. He said, he was merciful. He said, and they shared how he spent three hours a day in the Bible. They had a church in the prison. I said, you're leading the church, right? And he goes, no way. I'm a master manipulator. I'm not going back to that. It's somebody else's leading it. So after he tells the whole story, I look at him and I said, okay, I'm a young minister. Here's my number one question. When did you fall out of love with Jesus? This is 1994. When did you fall out of love with Jesus? At what point? Please tell me. He goes, I didn't. I said, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You committed adultery with in 1983, you did all this male fraud that you're in jail for. You're telling me you love Jesus all the way through this? He said, yes, John, I did. He saw complete confusion on my face. And then you know what he said to me? I didn't fear God. And he said, there are millions of Americans like me. They love Jesus. They have no fear of God. Now, if I look at the fear of the Lord, it is God's treasure. Think about it. It's a treasure that he's given to us. If I look at Isaiah 11, 3, Jesus delighted in the fear of the Lord. If I look at the Apostle Paul's writings, he said, we are matured in our faith through fear and trembling, not loving kindness. So the fear of the Lord isn't to be scared of God. It's actually being terrified of being away from God. When you carry the fear of the Lord, okay, it keeps you in a place of knowing God because the Bible says the beginning of knowing God intimately starts with holy fear. So let's bring this example back to my wife because the Bible says that holiness is matured, not through the love of God, but through the fear of God. Second Corinthians 7, 1. Now, I look at my wife, Lisa, we've been married 44 years. What's the number? What's the reason I don't commit adultery against Lisa? What's the reason? First of all, she is a sniper. She told me she would make it painless. So let's get that one off the table. Second reason, I made the covenant with God and I fear God. So I'm not going to write, no matter how she behaves, I don't care. I'm not going to violate that covenant I made with God. But let's get to the driving reason. What do I lose if I commit adultery with Lisa? If there's a couple of women here in Franklin, Tennessee, and I'm sleeping with them and she finds out, what do I lose? I lose the times that our heads are on the pillow and this magnificent woman speaks something to me that she wouldn't share with anyone else, the intimate most secrets of her heart. Why don't I want to commit adultery against Jesus? Why don't I want to flirt with the very things that drove the nails through his hands? Because I don't want to lose those times when he shows me things that I've never seen before. Up till just last year in writing this book, I saw things I'd never seen before because he revealed them to me. I don't want to lose that. That's what holiness, holiness is a doorway into something else. It's called intimacy. The fear of the Lord is what perfects holiness. That's why that man said to me, I love Jesus. I had no fear of God. So why is the only description of the church that Jesus is returning for? It's not a leadership driven church. Is leadership important? Yeah, we're not getting anything done without leadership. It's not a relevant church. Is relevance important? Yeah, you're never going to reach lost people without relevance. It's not a serving church. Jesus said, I came as one who serves. It's really important, but it's not a serving church. It's not a community church. God said, it's not good that man's alone. The church, the only description is a holy church without spot a wrinkle or any such thing. Why is the predominant description of God holy? Think about it. Isaiah sees the throne and these massive angels aren't crying love, love, love. Is God love? He doesn't have love. He is love. It's not faithful, faithful, faithful. They're crying. Is he faithful? Yes, they're crying holy. And a member of Oswald chambers wrote this. He said, when we preach the love of God, we run into the danger that God doesn't reveal himself, first of all, his love, but he reveals his holy, his blazing holiness. And in the center of that holiness is his deep love for us. And so God wants a bride that's going to be as faithful to him as he has been to her. I would never, ever really enjoy being married to a girl that was sleeping around periodically with other guys. Jesus is not coming back for a bride. Can you imagine, guys, I'm sorry, am I dominating? No, that's great. I'm okay. Can you imagine Matt's dating Sarah? Okay. And Matt, you know, after two years, man, she's the one, he gets the ring, he gets down on his knee, he opens up the ring box. He says, Sarah, would you be my bride? Would you marry me? She squeals, man. She goes, yes, yes, yes. She jumps into him. She pulls him up, jumps in with all fours. She's crying. She's like, this is the happiest day of my life. Then they talk him for like 30 minutes and she goes, well, you know, Matt, I dated Kevin in high school for two years. I just want a couple nights with him a year. And, you know, Bill was my college beau. I just want a couple nights with him a year. But you'll be my favorite. I love you more than Bill or Kevin. I mean, you'll have 360 nights with me. I just want four, five with them. Is there any young man in this entire nation that would go for that? Unfortunately, most of us would take the ring back and say, I'm not doing that. Yeah. So here's Jesus. How does he tell us he wants to marry us? He gets lied about. He gets mocked. He's in front of four squadrons of soldiers in 10 hours. Anuses, Caiaphas, Herod's and Pilots. They beat him to the point that Isaiah said he wasn't even recognized as a human being. The Scourging. I've felt a Scourging whip. I can't even imagine. It says that Romans weren't limited to 40. They could go as many times as they want. They said the bones were exposed. Hip bone because he's totally nude on that block. The chrono thones lacerating his skull, then taking nails in the median nerve, which is the most sensitive nerve in the entire body. He does it because he loves us. Because I love this bride I'm giving my life for. So how can I, when he has done this, ever sleep with what drove the nails through his hands? How can I flirt with what drove the nails through his hands? There's your motivation for being a set-apart bride. I'm sorry. I feel like I've dominated. I think that, I think it's always been relationship. I think since we started this podcast, that the father-son relationship has been paramount to understanding the blurry creatures. It's like you kind of go, it's like there's a hierarchy of things. Because I know his relationship with the son is the paramount relationship. So we think, oh, we love our wife or we love our friends. Nobody loves like God and the father and the son. That is the pinnacle. That's what it's all about. So that's the relationship. And he loves us enough to separate himself from his own son. I think that's a divorce. Like I'm giving humanity this thing that doesn't even deserve. And I think that's so difficult because it's like a betrayal between a father and a son. In a moment, on the cross, it felt like, dad, you know why? You know, they keep heartbroken. I think that we miss that relationship. We just think, well, Jesus is just here for us. So we make ourselves a center of the story all the time. And you know, what else impressed me about that is that it's the only true relationship because all the false gods that are entities, that promise similar things, similar like promises of, oh, you'll have health and you'll have vitality, that nobody ever actually feels like they're close to the lesser gods. They ultimately, it's about that God's ego. And they're always tricked into thinking, no, this is the one, this is the one. And they're never quite, it's an adulterous relationship that they find themselves in. This God will sell you out any minute. And it is that. And I think that's the competitions of gods in the Old Testament is, I think it's who can actually love you the way you want to be loved. And what's so mind blowing is that Jesus said in John 17, Father, show them that you love them as much as you love me. That's mind blowing. Yeah. And I think if we don't understand that relationship, we don't understand a lot of things going on. And we don't use familiar language like family, and we don't use relational language. We use theological language. So we don't have a connection to that relationship. And we feel distant from our relationship with God because we don't know how to do it. We don't know how to prepare. We don't know how to be eager. I mean, then you have a child and then you go, oh, now I know what love is. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Now I know what love is. And maybe that's the point, right? It's like down here, we're trying to figure out how to actually have a real relationship. And the only one we can have one with is God. It's, I love your guys' hearts. And I knew as soon as I walked in here, I'm talking to two men of God. And can I say as a church dad, keep doing what you're doing? Thanks, John. Because I really believe God's, God's touch your lives to do this. Yes. I think that's just the struggle throughout the whole New Testament, I think, is what you're describing. It's like Jesus asking, who do you say I am? Asking people, what kind of, you know, what do you think this is? Yeah. He got rid of Instagram and YouTube and everything, but what does everybody else say I am? Now who do you say I am? And Peter got it. And you know what? I feel like there's some people that are watching you right now that really want a relationship with Jesus. I feel that. I feel that tug. Can you guys lead them to Jesus? Or, you know, I just feel like, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm taken over. But I feel like, I feel like there are people saying, I want to know him. I mean, especially when they just learned how he gave his life, just for them. We'd be lost forever if he didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah. That's who's coming back. That's why we can be so excited. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah. I think people don't realize it's an invitation to come back into the family. Yeah. I think most people have a very screwed up version of family. I think people have been heartbroken by their families. I think people have been long. I think every relationship someone goes through, they're looking, every woman they want to love, every man they want to love, they fill that down. I think that you have the right to come back into the family. That's what it's all about. And he made it possible. So if you're listening, you can come back. It's easy. He made it possible. Remember the prodigal son's father came running for him. He didn't say a word. He just said, oh my gosh, I've been a jerk. And he started going back and his father started running with gifts. And that's what I feel like God's going to do with a lot of people right now. And there's some people you never knew. God and the Bible just says that all you have to do is just as a bride on that wedding day, you know, when she walks down the aisle saying goodbye to 3.9 billion guys. This is the only man I'm giving my heart to. It doesn't make her perfect the first day, the first week, the first year, the first 50 years. It just means she's given her whole heart to him. And that's what Jesus is inviting you to do right now. And just say this, just Jesus, I give you everything, my spirit, my soul, my body, everything I am, everything I have. I'm yours forever. So all you have to do, he's right there for you. Love it, John. This is crazy. I mean, it's good. It's real. It's raw. We didn't plan any of this. For the blurry base, I mean, John, I feel like, gosh, it would just be, I think we could go so many different directions with this. I just, I think my last question for you is like, how impressed on your heart are you that about the urgency of the times? Because I understand that there that people have been waiting for Christ for, you know, 2000 years, right? But his posture was always like, be ready. And we kind of walk through what that looks like. It's like, have a fear of the Lord, like have intimacy with Christ. You know, there's, there's a degree of sharing in his suffering. There's a degree of understanding the suffering there's, but Jesus says he's gonna come back as a thief in the night. And we know that thieves don't announce their arrival. They're gonna just stay sneak in and people are not gonna be ready. Like anything, I think with our, our loved ones, we always have this sort of idea, there's more time. It's always more time, always more time until there's a cancer diagnosis or until there's not, right? And I, I know your message, we don't want to be, we don't want to be caught thinking that we have more time to clean ourselves, to be cleaned by Christ or to, to, to, for holiness or intimacy. And is that really the impetus here? Is it like we should live like, like Jesus is coming back tomorrow? Yeah, but you ask how, how close are we? You've never, no nation has ever been away from its land for 1800 years and scattered all over the world and yet kept its language. They're speaking Hebrew today in Israel, kept its language, kept, kept its customs, its beliefs. The Jews have done this and only God could have done that. There's no way. Now Jesus said that Jerusalem would be overrun and trampled down by the Gentiles until the time the Gentiles is fulfilled. Jerusalem was taken back by Israel in 1967. A generation, because he makes this statement, he said, I surely I say to you that generation will not pass until all these things are fulfilled. And then he said, heaven and earth can pass away, but my words won't. He puts like an emphasis, bookend emphasis on this, right? A generation according to Nelson's Bible dictionary is all the people that lived in a time, in a certain time period. There are still people alive today that fought in World War II. Yeah, not a whole lot. Not a whole lot left, but we're talking almost 90 years ago. Okay, so about 85 years ago. And so I'm looking at 1967, and I'm thinking a generation can't be longer than 2065 to 2075. I know we don't know the day or the hour, but Jesus absolutely said we would know the season. And no other, no other century has been able to say, in the 12th century, they weren't able to say, well, Israel has its land, because there's got to be a temple and there's got to be a place where they're doing sacrifices that this man of sin can walk into and stop the sacrifices and set up a sacrilegious object inside of the temple. The abomination. That has to happen. There has to be an Israel for this to happen. There is now an Israel. There is now Jerusalem under the control of Israel. And so I believe we are in that generation. And I believe that we're going to see his return. And if I had to say, I would be so shocked if it's not by 2065, or 2067, 2075, somewhere in that time period, because that's all the people are still alive. So I think we more than any other generation could say we know it's the season of his coming. Obviously, God has relationships with individuals in the Old Testament, but he has this relationship with a group of people that's sentenced to mirror one-on-one relationship. And obviously, those people are very adulterous to his relationship. How does that play out in the return of Christ, do you think? Well, Paul says that all of Israel will be saved once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. All of Israel is going to, all of a sudden realize Jesus Christ is our Messiah and we crucified him. But the book of Zechariah makes it clear during that seven-year time that two-thirds of Israel will be put to death, that the man of sin is going to have power over them. He's going to conquer them. He's going to annihilate them. And the one-third that don't get martyred by him will come through fire, like silver coming through fire and gold coming through fire. It's very heartbreaking. I mean, you're going to have 144,000 Jewish evangelists right at the beginning of the time period. And I believe so many people are going to be saved during that time, because God is constantly saying, I'm still reaching out. I'm still. The only reason right now, we're so far from God in America, is we kept saying, we don't want you, we don't want you, we don't want you, we don't want you, we don't want you, we don't want you. God said, fine, this is what happens to the human being when they go the way that they think is best for them. So the law was given the Old Testament because God was trying to protect us from ourselves. And secondly, and firstly, to show us that we could never earn a relationship with God, because when we got that sin nature in the garden, we will gravitate towards that, which is bad for me. So now we come into the New Testament, God's put His seed and His nature in us. So now we have a choice. Are we going to gravitate to that, which will bring damage to me, what my flesh desires, or what my inner man desires? And that's why Jesus said, the spirit is willing to flesh as weak. And so are we going to build up our inner man, thus giving us the power to be able to walk away from that, which will destroy me? Are we going to make excuses of why God approves that, which will destroy me, which is an absolute lie, which we see a lot of today. There's a lot of what's happening here. There's a lot of that. So left to our own, we always gravitate to that, which will actually destroy me in the end. And we don't even realize it. So that's when we start calling what's good, evil, and what's evil good. If you look at Israel, they were in this place in the book of Judges that every man did what was right in his own eyes, his own heart. And they gravitated to absolutely corrupt behavior. So his whole story is about God saying, I'm just trying to get you back. You gave yourself over to the most devious, powerful enemy in the garden. And I'm doing everything I can to get you back. Like a mouth to a flame. He's not willing that any should perish, but that all of us should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Yeah, because we talked recently about how some of the stories in the Old Testament are mirroring the future. Or even just, I can't remember his name, the guy that couldn't give up the head adulterous wife and he kept... Hosea. Yeah. Yeah. How that could mirror that relationship that God has with his people and maybe a prophecy to come. You talk a lot in this episode about your relationship with your wife. And I think that a lot of people, you're very passionate about her. You guys have something. I love her. You guys, obviously, I mean, but you guys have this ability to fully give yourself to each other. A lot of people have too much trauma. They can't fully give themselves to God. There were times in our marriage that we didn't see any hope. Really? Yeah. I mean, she took off her engagement ring for 18 months and we were in an 18-month fight. And she said, I may be married, but I'm not engaged. I said, whatever that means. And we were jerks. We were stupid. We were acting so immature selfishly. It took a lot of repentance and crying out to God. Don't get me wrong. I mean, we were faithful to each other because we both had enough fear of God and us to know. I don't like you right now, but I've got no other choice. So it gave us the motivation to make it work because I thought, you know what, I have no option to walk away. Yeah. And then I, yeah, this is decades ago, but I'm so thankful because I've never loved anybody more passionately and deeply than I do my wife right now. And in fact, I can honestly say, because I remember how much I loved her when I first met her and married her. I love her more today than when I first married her. And my goal, my number one goal, my number one goal for my marriage is that the day she leaves this earth, she will be more in love with me than the day we married. And my number two goal is that when I leave this earth, I'll be more in love with Lisa than the day we married. And reflecting that kind of commitment to people who don't want to have a relationship with God, because they don't trust them. They don't have, they have that blockage. They have some trauma in their life and they don't like, yeah, maybe I could love a human, but they don't really trust maybe their partner. I think a lot of people are in relationships and then it's like, there's these walls that they have in their heart. Your lack of trust with your mate, with your partner, your spouse can be founded, but your lack of trust with God is unfounded. You obviously have been lied to and you are extremely deceived. And I will say, you'll actually find, and I have a whole chapter in there that the bond we have with Jesus is trust and trust is not given, it's earned. In John two, it actually says many began to trust in him, but he didn't trust them because he knew it was in men. But then he looks at his disciples and said, you stay with me during my trials. I trust you. You're now my friends. And he wants a bond of trust. He wants to be able to rule and reign with us forever and ever and ever. I mean, our life on earth compared to eternity is just, it's a vapor. It's a vapor. He's looking for a bride that he can rule the continents, the worlds, the galaxies forever and ever with. And it's going to be so cool. It's going to be so cool. I mean, if we got this cool in a fallen nature, I mean, can you imagine how exciting, innovative, creative? I mean, it's going to be forever and ever and ever. And he just says, I want a bride that I can trust them that they'll rule with my heart because the Bible says he's not put the world to come in control of angels. He's put it in mortal men because he right from the beginning wanted a bride he could rule forever and ever with. And we're that bride. What do you think the angel relationship to God was that broke his heart that we can imagine being the worship leader of heaven and then you commute mutiny and you take a third of the angels with you. I can't imagine the broken heart that God had over that. But yet God's created, he wants a creation with free will. He doesn't want robots. Yeah. What love is there when you got a robot? Yeah, there's no love. But angels have free will as you found. Yeah. That's what we say. It's on the show a number of times that like one of the most impactful things I heard was talking to John Burke. What do you think the meaning of all this is? And I think this whole thing is a test of loyalty. It's going to be loyal to the king or disloyal to the king. And then at that point, that's life summed up. And I think that's why the idea of free will in heaven is an easy one because you've proved yourself loyal here. Like why would you rebel against your king when you used to stand in his presence? Well, the gods of the nations want loyalty, but they're going to control and manipulate you to get that loyalty. And the God of the universe gives you access to everything and wants you to choose him amongst all the choices, right? Yeah. It's like, I really want you to want me. There's a song about that. And I think, yeah, but I think the gods like manipulate humans in different parts of ancient history to serve them. Yeah. It's codependency. It's not independent. You don't have a free, you don't have a choice. You have to serve this God or else you're going to get sick. You're going to get all these, you know, famines, all these things. They're doing all this rituals to make sure the gods are happy. And it's just, it's interesting. It's an unhealthy, fear-based relationship where ours is a fear-based relationship, but it's very healthy. Yeah. So there's good fears, there's bad fears, right? Yeah. I mean, let me show you the good fear. The wisdom to not mess with a mother grizzly bears cubs right in front of her. Yeah. That fear is a healthy fear that keeps me from doing something that will get me mauled to death. Yes. Right? Yeah. So there's a healthy fear of God and there's an unhealthy fear of false gods. And that would take a whole lot more time. We'd be going another 40 minutes talking about that. Yeah. But we tend to not even understand that they were, why people were getting seduced to these other sides? Why? What do they all want? They all want the best dad, but they got a toxic father. They don't know they have one. And then there's this all loving, great version of the father, the best father. Yeah. And you just don't choose it. Why? Why don't some people, they want it? What keeps us from choosing that relationship, you think? Well, I believe that it's an unhealthy view of what a dad is and they project it on to God. And when in reality, that's where intercessory prayer comes in. That's where crying out for people's souls comes in is because everybody's got such a warped view of what a true father should be until they come to know the father. I mean, I look at how I've come to know him progressively down through the decades and I wish so much. I could do it all over again with my sons. We have four sons. Now I'm going to tell you something. They're four very godly men and they're four of the closest men to me on this planet, but man, I wish I could do it over because my view of a father has grown as I've come to know our father. What'd you do differently? Oh, my gosh. I would have loved them more deeply and trusted them more deeply, but I also would do the same again in the way I disciplined them because I saw discipline draw foolishness and rebellion out of them. Just as God said, I was a youth pastor and I saw, there were families that came in that the parents didn't discipline their kids, they didn't believe in it and their kids are so messed up, so messed up. I remember this one girl talked to her mom like she was literally trash and I looked at the father and I said, are you going to address that or do I need to? And the mother goes, oh no, no, no, we believe in loving our kids out of their disobedience. I said, this interview, I said, this counseling appointment's over. I said, because I can't help you. And the father's like, wait, I took off work and I said, look, you know more than God, so how can I ever help you? Because God is the one that said physical discipline will drive foolishness from the heart of a child. I said, how can I help you? I can't. And I remember they laughed and I'm hoping that God used that shock in that father mother's life to get them to read the Bible and understand. So I would have been the discipline area I am. I maybe not have been so strict because I would have saw, hey, this is just part of development, this isn't rebellion. But that's probably some of the things and I wouldn't have traveled quite as much. I think I did meetings back then out of the fear of gosh, maybe I might not get more meetings. I would have been home more and I would have handled things differently. You see as a grandfather, you watch your grandchildren and you're like, gosh, my kids would gotten in trouble for that. And I just smile and just go, that's just part of growing up. What do you think your sons want from you ultimately? What did they want then and now? They want my love and they want my interaction. My dad was a very quiet World War II dad. So my oldest son is very relational and he made me so uncomfortable because all I had modeled to me was a quiet dad who showed I love my family by providing and protecting, which that's good. But my son needed me to be in communion with him and between Lisa and my son, they pulled it out of me and it was difficult. It was really difficult because you always bring things into married life having children. There were dysfunctions that you had. They weren't necessarily evil, but they were dysfunctions. And so that's the big thing I've learned in my life is getting those, the way I guess you could see it is they were just improper things in the shed. You pull those things out of the shed in the shed of your soul and now all of a sudden you see things in a more healthy light. Yeah, because dad's going to be angry and I think a lot of us don't choose father because we know he's going to be mad. That's dad's most fathers operate. Dad's pissed. We know it. Hide. We're in the bushes. He's here. There's not... It's the garden. It's the garden they hid, right? And then I... Shame, shame. But God knew this would happen and he planned for this to happen and his sacrifice was himself. That's the wild part. And we think about being fathers, all of us are fathers here. It's like God knew what would happen in the garden and he planned for it. Anger has to be rooted in your deep love for the people. Not you frustrated me. So Lisa and I, when we discipline our children, we had to make sure we weren't angry at them because you really frustrated and embarrassed me. We had to do it because we knew it was right for them. And our children are doing this better with their children. It's not the hope that your kids do better. Yeah, we started praying with them later on because we started wising up to it. We started praying with our kids after we disciplined them. And I remember my one son, he broke a kid's nose on purpose and Lisa's like, you're going to encounter your father tonight. And I remember I got home and I went up, he was pretending to be asleep. I thought he was sound asleep and I'm leaving on a five day trip the next morning. I said, Lisa, I just can't wake him up and just spank him. And so I left. He did something that was absolutely horrible the next day. And Lisa said, we're going to deal with this right now. And he looked at my wife and he was probably eight years old, seven years old. He said, I feel like there's a wolf in my heart. She said, we're just going to get rid of that wolf right now. And he was a totally different child after she disciplined him. And so, you know, the word of God works, it drives foolishness out of the heart of a child. And I look at all four sons, they're in their 30s, one's turning 40 this year. They're all serving God passionately. Two of them are on our team. All eight have worked with us on our team for at least nine years. And when I say eight, I'm talking about our four daughter and us. But a good father doesn't just like, he slowly walks you through tests and goes. I think Abraham does a lot of things later on, not when he's a young guy, you know, and the ultimate test is giving up his only son, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Ultimate test, his love for God. But I want to add something right here because I feel like we stumbled on this one. Lisa and I looked at each other and we believe me, our failures, our weaknesses were so glaringly apparent to us. Yeah. We said, we're going to make so many mistakes with our kids. So we agreed, we are going to say, I'm sorry to our kids. And there were so many times I would look at our sons and I'd come back and I'd go, I am so sorry. I was so wrong. Tone of voice, whatever, right? I was with a bunch of pastors in Singapore telling them this. They were like, how did you get four sons that love God? And I said, da, da, da, da. Number one, I always say is we apologized and meant it. Yeah. And one of those pastors in Singapore came up to me and said, you know, in Asia, honor is huge, huge. And so when my dad did something that was wrong, we just all forgot about it. And I looked at him and I said, did you forget about it? And his head dropped and he shook it and he said, no. And what my son said to us later, our son said to us later is, dad, you apologizing, mom apologizing made us feel safe. And so I've taken that policy up with my team. I have 50 team members and one day it suddenly hit me, my board, who we have chosen board members that will call us on the carpet. Like they're not yes men and yes women, but they don't see the way I treat my staff. So I said, Holy Spirit, you're the only one that can help me with this. I said, if I treat my staff wrong, I want you to keep me up at night. And our whole team, 50 team members were here right now. And I talked about 2am, 3am emails, they would all burst out laughing because they got so many 2am and 3am emails from me, especially 10 years ago. And there have been a lot less since God started dealing with me about the second coming because I've been more patient. God's put that fruit in my life. I've been kinder to my staff. I've been more long suffering. When you're passionate, you're going to make those mistakes. Sure you are. You're crazy enough to start something where you need a staff. It's not average people do those things. And then you get emotional about it and you can pull off the handle. And kids can make you so emotional. It's the things they do, the things they say, the fights they have. Sometimes you're playing ref. Sometimes you're putting them in the penalty box. And sometimes you just let them fight. These two guys need to go fight right now. They got to figure it out. It was like dinosaurs. One time we let them do it in the basement. Oh my gosh. Because they were like late teens. It's like a hockey game basically. Oh yeah. I mean we just saw one of the greatest hockey games and we know. I mean life feels like a hockey game. Sometimes you know that's too far. You hit your brother a little too hard. Oh yeah we dealt with that. But under controlled atmosphere it was fun to watch when they were older. So your book's about eagerness. And I think maybe this is a good way to cap it off. Some people are preparing their home because they have a judgmental mom and dad coming to show. And they're going to go, oh you didn't clean this. And some people are excited because the king of heaven is coming. So we can. We want mom and dad to see how we've set up our house. Yeah. Out of that excitement seeing the delight on their face. You just set it perfectly. I love that. We're not cleaning up the house because we got a judgmental god. Yeah. We got a god that we want his smile when he comes. And he's coming to stay with us forever. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the prodigal son. You know kill the fatted calf, throw a party. Well thanks John. Yeah. So the book again, the king is coming. Yeah. I think what's most impressive on me is that like this, the idea of being eager should transform the way that we live and also the way that we're our relationship with God. And I think that's the most important thing. Not that you know, certain dates in 88, 99, that's all, that's all funny now, right? But I love the message here is that, you know, as the gods returning and we want to have a house ready for him to stay with us, not to judge us. I love it John. Not formally. Yeah. Thanks for, I mean, thanks for spending time with us here. I mean, this has been incredible. We could, I mean, we could probably go for, we could talk about everything for the next six hours. Yeah. Tell us just where you're at, what you're doing, where you're at, what, how they can get involved with what's going on in your world. Well, I mean, right now I'm so immersed in, in making sure this message gets out because I believe a lot of young men and women are going to be turned into fireballs, firebrands from this, and they're going to just light up their world. So, you know, I, like I said, I've traveled over 12 million miles and I'm trying to cut that back a bit. Yeah. So we have our own podcast called The Jump of Your Podcast and, you know, every episode is anywhere from 100,000 to a million views. So I realize getting on a plane and traveling a long way, I'm speaking to four, five, six thousand. Yeah. I'm speaking, I'm speaking to a lot more people. So I've realized it was my son that said, Dad, you need to do a podcast. And I spent a year talking about Second Peter and that's how this book was really, really birthed when I saw the impact that talking about Second Peter had on, and so right now I'm, like I said, I'm turning 67 and my great, great interest is empowering the young men and women, sons, team members, and this generation to go and to be firebrands. I want to see a lot more guys like you out there really making a difference that are called to do it. I want to see them using their gifts and talents, not to build their own lives, but to build the kingdom and how much more you're fulfilled in doing that than if you are just building your own kingdom. Thank you. So that's my passion. I love it, yeah. Thank you. I know you got a lot of people pulling you in a lot of different directions and obviously it's like, it's a little bit of an oddball for you and just appreciate it. It was an oddball. I have loved every minute of this. Thanks, John. But I mean, you know, there's so many opportunities for you. So thank you for spending some time with us because you can do a million things in a day and it's just cool that you chose us to be one of those things. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, man. Let's go.