318. How Hands-On, Real-Life Learning Transformed Their Health and Home | Kody Hanner of Homestead Education

When COVID hit, I just saw so many families saying, how do I teach my kids to do all the things I don't know how to do? I like, I want to learn it, but I want my kids to learn it and want my kids to embrace it in a way that they have confidence in it. But I'm, I mean, even myself having the background in ag, there were so many times that I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to make this. I don't know how to make this safe. And it's really become a mission because the more research I do, I have found that there's a like a systematic gap in the way we teach kids that used to be commonplace as in teaching agriculture and home economics in a way that wasn't a vocational agriculture class or a vocational cooking class. It was parts teach you how to like run a home. My name is Lisa, mother of nine and creator of the blog and YouTube channel, Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast, I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses, Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course, YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes and description box below. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today, I am going to be chatting with Cody Hanner of Homestead Education. She's a homesteader, educator and founder of Homestead Science and the Homestead Education podcast. Her journey into natural living began in 2018 when her husband was diagnosed with stage four liver cirrhosis, a diagnosis that prompted their family to overhaul their lifestyle overnight. What started as a personal pursuit of wellness quickly grew into a passion for teaching others how to live more intentionally and sustainably. After relocating to North Idaho, Cody and her family established a thriving commercial homestead where they raised livestock, grow much of their own food and sell pork and seasonal products. They're currently expanding their vision with a farm store to serve their community more directly. As a homeschooling mom, Cody searched for a true science-based agricultural curriculum letter to create the Homestead Science program, a program designed to teach the next generation where their food comes from. Through the Homestead Education podcast, she now reaches homesteaders and homeschoolers across the country, sharing practical education, encouragement and lessons learned from her family's real life experiences. Cody also travels nationwide to speak at homesteading and homeschooling conferences, inspiring families to reconnect with their roots and embrace a more grounded, self-sufficient way of life. I think you're gonna really enjoy this conversation, find it encouraging, we're gonna chat a bit on homeschooling, homesteading and all of the skills that young children and children of all ages can learn from that. Right, welcome on the show, Cody. Let's start with introductions. Tell us a bit about yourself and your family. I already talked about your business online and what you do, but is there anything that you wanna share? Yeah, so my name's Cody Hanner and like you mentioned, I own the Homestead Education. My family and I moved to North Idaho about six, seven years ago after a big change happened with our family medically. And it's kinda just molded where we've gone over the last eight years and it's been a crazy ride, but a really special one too and we feel really blessed to be able to share our story. Yeah, so I know you are a mother to six, you're an educator and founder of Homestead Science and the Homestead Education podcast. You mentioned a medical diagnosis. Do you wanna go a little bit more into that? Yeah, so my husband was diagnosed with in-stage liver disease eight years ago now. He was, let's see here, gotta do math, that stinks. He was only about 35 at the time. And I mean, it was just, it was a huge blow because they gave him about a year to live. They said like get your affairs in order. This is in-stage liver disease. And for him, that just sent him into a spiral of depression and stuff. Whereas for me, I had just lost my dad and my brother to the same disease the year before. Really? Yeah, of course my dad and my brother, I could be like, I know what you did. But, you know, because liver disease a lot of times is associated with alcohol and stuff. Yes, yes. You know, my dad was a radio cowboy and stuff, so drinking a lot of times just comes with that. But my husband had not drank for 12 years. Just by choice, I mean, and then we would, we'd have like a barbecue and have a beer or something, but we weren't drinkers. Right, yes. So to get that kind of diagnosis at 35, it was shocking. Uh-huh, yeah. And so, I mean, we kind of at this point have maybe traced it back to something he was exposed to in Iraq. Okay. Because he is a disabled veteran. But yeah, like I said, it sent him into a tailwind of depression. It sent me into that tailwind of, I am gonna find an answer. Right, yeah. So you guys, you overhauled your lifestyle. Was it, were you living like a standard American diet, standard American lifestyle prior to this? Yes. So I would say that we lived a somewhat average American diet, although my husband and I had both grown up rather rural. So we hunted a lot, a lot of the meat in our freezer was venison and pork and bear and elk and, but we still bought a lot from the grocery store. What I had believed was natural cooking or, you know, not natural, like whole food cooking was that I made my chicken noodle soup with chicken broth and chicken and store bought noodles because that was from scratch. It wasn't completely from the can. Because that's what I had been taught. Yeah. And so I definitely had to relook at how we had grown and cooked everything as well as what medicines we were on, like how we cleaned our house, everything. Okay. Yeah, so I'm just, this is obviously, I don't know if this is the pillar of your content. I don't think you talk about this probably all the time, but obviously your husband is still alive right now. Yes, he is. And two years ago, he was given a completely like clean bill of health. Did he do the treatments or anything? Or there was no treatments. There's nothing you can do for liver disease. Yeah. Other than reduce the load on your liver and that might help. But generally with end stage liver disease, the scarring, they say that there's no regeneration of that. Okay. And at this point, they said he has like an absolutely beautiful liver with just a little bit of scarring on the outside. Wow. So what were some of the first changes you made? Cause you did a whole lifestyle overhaul, but I'm sure you couldn't do it all at once. Maybe in this very intense situation, you did. Like maybe this wasn't casual like I'm expecting. It was not casual. Yeah, I was in casual. The kids took a picture of me sitting in the middle of the kitchen and we had like a box of chicks in the kitchen. I was surrounded by like a pressure canner and all these like different things. And I had cookbooks laid out and I was sobbing. Like just, I mean, it was, I felt so overwhelmed and I'm never going to be able to do all of this. And because my husband was in such a dark place, he wasn't in there like being my champion. Like he had been on so many other things. He was like, I don't care. I'm not doing it. Like do whatever you want. Like type of attitude. He didn't really believe you probably. Like, you know, you're given this by medical experts. So that your wife is going to somehow like help to make the situation better is probably, you know, probably a little skeptical maybe. We actually keynoted last year and we called it good food and stubborn wives. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Because that was like the basis of that. Uh-huh. So where did you get the information? Like how did you know, okay, let's first begin by getting chicks and making whatever it is that you learned how to do. How did you know where to even begin? Well, I did have a little bit of a background as in that I was a, I had majored in agriculture, grew up on a ranch. I had been a food safety specialist for 10 years and big food plants. So I did have a basis for how to grow our own food and that that was going to be the way we would do that. I started doing research. I joined Facebook groups. I bought every book there was to buy and everything I could find, you know, just with a list of foods you couldn't couldn't eat. For a liver, like to protect your liver. Yes. And to heal your liver. Put like less strain on your liver. Yeah. You know, a lot on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is really the route I took in doing research because when you do a lot of research on cirrhosis, it's just how to handle your end stage stuff and your end of life stuff. Wow. Versus I looked at what non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and how to heal that. And I mean, at this point, I even dove deep and I hadn't even heard about like the Westinay Price Foundation or anything like that. I just knew what I had known from commercial agriculture. I followed a couple of homestudders online and I just kind of had to figure it out. So what were some of the main things that were going to make his liver more taxed and like not heal? You know, we really looked at... Like what were you trying to avoid, I guess? Honestly, in the beginning, some of the things we tried to avoid are the things that we pursue the most now. Okay. And one of them is that, you know, they want you to lose weight. And so you start really pursuing that low fat diet. Okay. And now since then, we have moved to, so we're, you know, low fat berries and low fat foods that are all just replaced with sugars and salts and bad salts and things like that. The first one that was really a game changer for me was switching to redmonds. The flavor of redmonds is so wonderful that we could use about a third to a half of the amount of sodium and really reduce his sodium load. So that was great because at first, he was like, all this food tastes nasty. And then he was able to eat something that actually tasted good to him. Yeah. Yeah. The next one was, you know, our doctors in Oregon were, you know, no full fat, dairies, no raw milk, none of that type of stuff. And when we moved to Idaho, he really wanted a dairy cow because he wanted to try, you know, getting away from the enzymes and things like that that are in or, you know, not in commercial milk. And so we bought a cow and we were doing low temp pasteurization for about a year, which I was also pregnant and we had a one year old. So it was kind of like, okay, like that's, we're just learning how to have a dairy cow. So low temp pasteurization I felt really comfortable with. But we found a doctor up here who's very holistic and was behind us 100% and she's like, I vote for full fat raw dairy on everything. I vote that you guys raise pigs. I vote that you cook an all large, like, you know, just kind of like confirmed all the things that felt more natural to us, but we were being told wasn't okay. And so that's what we really pursued at that point. You know, both of our cholesterol has dropped about 150 points making those changes. Wow. So I mean, the proof was kind of in the pudding there. Uh-huh. And we saw that right away, his liver enzymes, his labs dropped right away. And when I say right away within like a year, which is, that was exciting to see. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And now you all are teaching others how to like, have a homestead, how to have, you know, financial diversity is one of the things you teach as well. Whole food nutrition, you speak at homestead conferences, home schooling conferences. What is the reason behind that mission? How did you get started on all of that? You know, I mean, obviously, as you mentioned, it's like super multifaceted. Yeah. And it wasn't just one thing. But what I did realize is that so many other people wanted to pursue this lifestyle. And because of my background in ag and doing consulting for small businesses and stuff that I had something to share, yeah, that would help others. Right. And, you know, we had already gone through a lot of stress of we are a blended family. And with my husband being in Iraq for most of the years when his children were younger, we were all, and I had been working, we kind of blended our family with all these kids that had never really been raised by us, even though they were all our children. Right. And we had to kind of figure that one out at the same time, because he was only diagnosed with this liver disease like two years into our relationship. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he was a widower. And so we're like, okay, let's figure this out all at once. I mean, if you've ever talked about baptism by fire, this was it. Yeah. So we were trying to figure out how to raise all these kids, how to eat naturally, how to raise all the food ourselves, and make money so that I could be home and not have to be at work where I could be with the kids. And we decided to homeschool because we already weren't happy with what was going on in public schools. And we wanted to spend more time as a family because if he did only have a year, let's make the best of it. Right. So we bought this farm 40 acres and it had been previously farmed, so we were able to just kind of like step into place. But being a new homeschool mom, I felt like I had to do all the things. And I think that that's probably a conversation you've definitely had before. Oh, yeah. I feel like it's one of those ones where I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with it. And then I always end up talking to someone new who goes, oh, I didn't know I had to do, I didn't have to do all the things. Oh, no, that's always a welcome conversation no matter how many times you've heard it or it just, it comes up again and again because the job does feel endless. I was talking to a mom the other night at a fall thing and she was like, so how do you do this, this, this and this? Cause I'm really struggling. I'm like, this is just a conversation moms need to have. Yes, it is. And a lot of times my answer is I don't. I just don't do all the things. Right, exactly. And sometimes that's cause my husband steps in or sometimes it's cause my older children step in and sometimes it's just not done. Sometimes just can't get it all done. And that's okay too, because there is not like a Pinterest inspector that comes to your home. No, there's no inspector. And make sure it's Pinterest worthy all the time. And if you're having company, shut a door, you know, it's okay. So yeah, we're trying to do all the things and I still, I wish I had somebody tell me eight years ago you don't have to do all the things. Like we could have not homeschooled the kids for the first two years of all of this and everything would have been okay. Yes, yes, right. Yes, those probably overwhelming couple of years cause you were learning how to do everything. So I went ahead and was trying to do everything. And one of them that I right off the bat realized is that if I could teach them agriculture while we were learning to grow all of our own food that that would be, I mean, that would just lock everything in and I would feel like I was a good mom. To birds with one stone, multiple birds. Exactly. And so I was like, well, there's a curriculum for everything. So I'll just hop online and I'll find an ad curriculum and we'll do that and that'll be great. And that'll just be what we do for a year. And there was nothing. Wow, yeah. So you found a quite a hole in the marketplace. I very much did. I mean, and I'm, you know, there's gonna be someone who's like, oh, there's four age curriculums. Oh yeah, and they're great. And I've got a lot of wonderful information and insight from them, but I really wanted something that met the kids on the farm doing what they were doing, not in a commercial aspect where they were, you know, learning how to just go milk their one cow, bring it back to the house and process it and learn that skill and that chore, but also learn, you know, why we feed our cows the way we do, why some people pasteurize milk, why we have to keep the milk clean, like all those pieces at the same time. And so I started creating these lessons for my kids to meet them at each of their levels, because I had at the time that were being homeschooled, I had like third graders through freshmen in high school. Okay. And so I kind of had to meet them in different places. And so I was building these different lessons doing different things, different projects. They had different responsibilities that were associated with their assignments. So, you know, the older boys would actually do the milking whether the younger kids would come in and do the pasteurization, but then during that time, the older boys were putting ice in the bucket to bring into the, you know, just kind of, and then afterwards they'd have their assignments with it. And when COVID hit, I just saw so many families saying, how do I teach my kids to do all the things I don't know how to do? Right, that's a common question people have. I like, I want to learn it, but I want my kids to learn it and want my kids to embrace it in a way that they have confidence in it. But I'm, I mean, even myself having the background in ag, there were so many times that I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to make this. I don't know how to make this safe. I don't know which medications I can give my animals because I don't want them to come to us, but working in commercial ag my whole life, there was a different protocol. And there's still, I had to talk with my vet the other day, he came to do some preg checking and I had a couple of cabs and I was like, should I vaccinate them? Should I not vaccinate them? And he was like, he was like, you know what answer you're looking for. So let's just leave it at that. And he didn't say another word about it and left. And I was like, okay, so he wanted me to say that I didn't want them vaccinated, but didn't want to actually say that because good animal health practices when you have a herd is to keep the herd healthy. So it's kind of that balancing all those things and teaching my kids to understand that that there isn't just one way to do it because if we did have a herd of 300 head of cattle, I would probably have a very different protocol with them. Even if I wanted a natural herd, then I would with our 10 head of cattle. Yes. And so I want to know kids to understand both sides of that and everything I could find on agriculture was teaching from a commercial standpoint. And again, I don't think we could feed the amount of people that we feed without having some of these practices, but I wanted my kids to understand there was both ways. Yeah. And there can be a combination of both ways. So when everybody got online and was saying, how do I learn this and teach my kids? I thought, I could help. I have all this done. And I was still just, I had to have a blog trying to have a place to share what we were doing with my husband's liver disease, but I was still working a job I didn't love. I couldn't figure out a way to be home. And I was driving to, I was doing real estate, so it was kind of 50-50, but I was driving to work one day and I was listening to an agriculture or a homesteading podcast and they were talking about something and it just clicked for me right then. Like you have everything you need to write this curriculum that you're trying to write on a daily basis for your kids. Why don't you just take the time and do it? And so we had an option of not working in the office for as long as we wanted to during COVID that we could just work from home. So I took that option and I went home and I said, honey, I have a crazy idea. And I was waiting for his like, not another one. Like, yeah, because I always have a crazy idea. I still have them, my assistant. And I came up with a crazy idea the other day and he was like, oh, no. Yeah, do it, but no. Yeah, yeah. And he actually loved this one. I mean, he was like, that is amazing. Like sit down, let me bring you a computer. Like, do you need a glass of iced tea? Right. And I wrote it and at first it was just to fill a need for myself and a hole in the market. And since then it's really become a mission because the more research I do, I have found that there's a systematic gap in the way we teach kids that used to be commonplace as in teaching agriculture and home economics in a way that wasn't a vocational agriculture class or a vocational cooking class. It was parts teach you how to like run a home. Right, right, right. Yes. Yes. So your curriculum, do you learn math and reading through this too? Or is it more just like an add on to some of those more basic type of skills? Or what ages is it for too? So I have it for preschool through high school and I'm adding stuff all the time. It's kind of just me in the creation area. I have people who do shipping and things like that. But when it comes to the creation part of it, it is just me, so it's slow. But I have a full year science for younger kids and a full year science for junior high high school. And it follows all of the national ag standards for teaching in that class. Oh, cool. So it's absolutely, especially for the high schoolers, it is absolutely a full year science that meets all those things plus a lab, which a lot of parents really love because then they're able to integrate and get exactly what they need, even for their kids, their college prep. So that's really awesome. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of families do use the younger one as more of a unit study. However, that wasn't really the way I designed it because I wanted it to just really focus on ag and what you're doing in the home. However, in order to do that, it covers every aspect of what you're doing in life. So they are getting reading, they're getting writing, they're getting public service. They're, especially in the older one, it really encourages kids like, are you allowed to sell eggs in your county? Don't look it up, call the county and ask. So it's like encouraging kids to take those steps outside of their comfort zones. And so it's covering a lot more than just science. Right, yes. Okay, yeah, that was my question. Now, do you recommend your curriculum for everyone? If someone lives, say they live like in the middle of a subdivision or something, they can still learn all these things, necessarily not be able to like go milk your own cow, but you're still learning. It's a no homestead required curriculum. Okay, I got you, yeah. So yeah, all the projects, it doesn't say like go milk a cow. Right. It tells you how to milk a cow and then maybe the project is a little bit more, how to figure out how much you're supposed to feed that cow and how much you can make off the milk. So there's a little bit more hands-on for that family. In some of the cases, I teach the kids how to make yogurt. So you can do that with store-bought milk, you can bring it home. And then they're still practicing measuring with a thermometer and measuring in how much they need and learning how the bacteria from the store-bought yogurt grows in their milk and that type of stuff. Yeah, yeah. That is so interesting. I love that whole entire concept. Now you mentioned teaching some home economic type stuff. I guess you're talking about, like you just mentioned, making yogurt. Are you walking them through? You said some pricing too, like what it would take to make a profit on something like that. Yeah, so it teaches how to do budgeting, how to research your budget. Some of them are a little bit more agriculture specific. Like I encourage the kids to go to the store, like the feed store and figure out how much a fence insulator costs. Because then they're also getting to like put a fence insulator in their hand and see what it is. And anybody can do that. But then they're budgeting for their fence and then they decide at the end of the year based on how much milk they made off their goats if that fence was worth it or if they should have built, a hot wire fence instead of a bobbed wire fence or something. And then, but then the home economics part is kind of the same idea. And I actually have several chapters and all of my books that cover home cooking, just the real basics of home cooking, like what spice blends and things like that, how one of the projects is just making a hamburger. And so it had a season it, how to cook it, how to check the temperature. And then that's a skill that like a lot of even young boys aren't taught. And that's something that could be, they move out of the house for the first time as long as they can have a hamburger patty every night, like they're cooked, they're solid. Yes, they can add on from there. And then I also have a project where you can plan a whole meal completely from scratch. And either you can do it by yourself and budget it or I give a sample recipe that goes all the way back to baking your bed, making your own homemade egg noodles, making chicken noodle soup, making it from broth. And it kind of like cuts it off at each step. Like if you aren't going out and killing your own chicken, this go buy one, if you aren't making your own broth, you can go buy broth and kind of breaks it down that way. It also covers food preservation, food safety, both in the home and commercially. It covers how to budget a house, like, you know, budget your home and budget your profit from any business that you're doing, first aid, herbalism. Wow. And hunting and fishing and off-grid life, like, you know, how to even calculate what size off-grid system you need. So it covers a little bit of everything you could possibly want for running a homestead. Yeah, there's so many moms out there who are like, I actually want this curriculum for myself. Do you find that happens a lot too? I probably sell about 20% to either moms or families in general. Yeah, I could see that. And I see that a lot at homestead conferences, they come up there like, I love this, because another thing is it's written kind of traditionally. I wanted it to somewhat mimic like the textbook learning, but that it could be even used in an unschool setting or however the family feels works best for them. But a lot of, you know, moms are aged, they see it, and they go, this looks like the way I learned. And so it fits the way their brains are already wired to learn. Right, that makes sense. Yeah. And then makes it easier for them to fit that for their kids. Yes. Yeah, I'm sure like a lot of things you were mentioning, I was thinking, OK, those kind of build on each other. So you don't necessarily, is it organized by grade level? Or is it kind of just like, once you get through this, move on to this type of thing? Yeah, I don't know that I would even know what seventh grade homesteading is. Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, that's with homeschooling in general. You don't necessarily think of it that way, but sometimes if people haven't homeschooled, they typically think of it in grade level. And it's hard to kind of reframe your mind around that that's not really how life works, but I wasn't sure how you organized it. It is hard. I have it broke down for lower division elementary school, upper division elementary school, and then I have a junior high and high school version. And then I have some mini units that kind of work in. Like I have a high school specific economics course. They just kind of goes deeper. A junior higher could take it, but it's more focused for that high school level. Yeah. And so then each level is more based on maturity level, math level, kind of just some of those pieces that for a five year old, they really only want to, I have a barn on my homestead. I'm super excited for that. The little kids, they build their own homestead on a big poster. And so they learn about a barn. They build a barn, that type of thing. Where in the next age group up, they learn why barns were historically red, why there's cross pieces for structural integrity. They make their own homemade red paint. So they're getting a little bit of history, a little bit of chemistry, kind of all those pieces. And then when they get to the older grades, they learn how to work all the power tools to build a barn, or at least an explanation of it. And they watch videos. I have linked videos that are either my own or I pre-vetted them to make sure they aren't just selling you something or foul language or something. And so they learn how to work all the tools. They learn how to calculate angles, how to measure, just kind of all those pieces. And then they learn about painting and insulation and budgeting and how to even buy land that already has infrastructure. Right, yes. So it kind of just builds based on an age level. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. It's amazing how many different things you can learn through homesteading. And the more you mention the more I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, you do have to encounter that. At some point in your adult life, if you go on to pursue a homestead, you're going to encounter that. Maybe you're going to learn it the hard way, or maybe you'll have a little bit of background to understand, if nothing else, the economics of it. Like you mentioned, raw land and infrastructure. And those are all really important pieces. And it'd be better to encounter it when you're a kid than an adult. And even if they don't retain every piece of it, that's OK. Well, that's any education. You're not. Yeah. One day, I mean, I know with you, you started out in town in your farmhouse, and then you moved to a larger place, right? Yeah. So you were probably, OK, we had our farmhouse thing going on here. Now we need to buy a larger place. And what do you mean there's no water at the barn? And those types of conversations that you don't even think to have. Yep, things you never think about unless you're doing it. Yes. So then, yeah, in the middle there, we had a place that was a small homestead that already had a house and a barn and electricity and all that stuff, water. Not water to all the places. We did have to run that. But then now we have raw land that we've added electricity, water, septic, barn. And so just taking it a step further and learning even more. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about homeschooling. It's like one of the most beautiful things about homeschooling is even if you're not specifically teaching them something, when kids walk through life with you because they're just around you all the time and they have to be inconvenienced by going out and meeting the guy that's going to run the lines for them. They're very much around your life and what you're doing. But even if you're not homesteading, I like that your curriculum walks you through those scenarios that you might not encounter if that's not something you're pursuing, but you have a child who's more interested in that. And this really came a lot from my now 20-year-old. When he was 15, he said, hey, can I stop going to school and just get a job? And my husband and I were like, oh, thank goodness. It's a lot of boys, too. I've heard. There was no way we would have been able to teach this kid through high school. I mean, he has really severe ed. I've heard this from so many boy moms. I'm like, it's so weird because it's so natural. Why do we even stop it? But anyways, go on. Well, yeah. I mean, he has ADHD and ODD. So I mean, already, I was up against a challenge. But honestly, I think high school should be vocationally focused anyways. I don't think we need to be going and taking all these advanced sciences and English and stuff unless you're planning on being an English teacher. Right. So I kind of feel like with him when he was 15, it was like, can I just get a job? We're like, yes, please. Yes. I have a 12-year-old who's like, and I didn't feel this way with my older kids. But this one particular, I'm like, I cannot wait till you can finally go get a job because you just need to. You need to do that. I have 17-year-old twins, boy-girl twins. And they are both very academic-minded. And so. There's kids like that. Yeah. My son reads textbooks for fun. But then he's reading the history of farm mechanics. And my husband does mechanics for the neighbor's farm. So then he goes with them. And he's learning it in a hands-on way. And the farmers there were even at one point like, hey, we have this old tractor. We don't even know if it runs. Do you guys think you could look at it? My husband's like, I don't even know what it is. And my son's like, oh, I know. And they ended up getting it running together. Wow. Like fabricating parts and everything. So even though he's not a hand. I mean, he is a hands-on kid, but he's definitely more academic. Yeah. Whereas the 20-year-old, he was like, academics, no, thank you. I'm pretty sure you invented math to ruin my life. Yeah. Yeah. And my dad, he described school to me like what it felt like for him. Like he just, and he's such, like he's a very successful guy. Like he ended up very successful. But he just, school was terrible for him. And I can see one of my kids is just like him. And I'm like, you just have to go like try stuff. Like I can't. Like did this, yeah, I agree. Like math, why? I mean, he'll, when he needs to know it, he cares. But when it's just an artificial setting, it's like he cannot get his brain to care about something so fake. And I, I'm kind of that way. So I kind of understand. But then again, I was a pretty good student. But I like to do it. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Like not just like a fake problem. Like I need to actually go figure this out while I'm, you know, like this kid, he always has new business ideas. I'm like, I just cannot wait till, like I didn't want my daughters to get there. Like my oldest has her license and I'm not, I don't love it. Like it's great. She's an, she's independent. She can go places, but you know, I'm like scared and I don't like it. But then with him, I'm like, I almost spent. My 17 years don't have their license yet. So. Okay. Yeah. My daughter will be 17 this month and she, she drives, you know, obviously we have rules on like certain things, but she drives. But my son, I'm like the one that's this particular child. I'm like, I almost cannot wait till you can go do your own thing because you need to have your heard of screwing. So it's where you put out things that you hope the kids will pick up and want to learn about, but you don't force them to do it. Uh-huh. Like, cause I've definitely bought home an art project. I'm like, Hey, we're going to do an art project and some kids are excited and some of them are like, no, and you're like, guess what? You're doing it anyways. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Strewing is more, I would like bring it home, leave it on the kitchen table and not say anything to anyone. And if they do it great, if they don't, that's okay too. What's, what's an example? Like, um, one of them that I always like is you start like a documentary on the TV and then leave the room and see if when they come in for their TV time, if they just go ahead and watch the documentary or if they, okay. So that's one, um, you know, maybe pick up a book on, you know, like my one son is really, he loves to draw. He's eight. And so I picked him up a drawing book at a homeschool conference, but I didn't say you're going to sit down and do 30 minutes of drawing a day. I just tossed it on the table and didn't say who it was for. And then he's like, scurrying around it. Like, I want to look at it. I don't know if I'm allowed to look at it. And then he's like, can I look at the book? Psychology where? Yes. Right. So I have been told, you know, moms who strew are trying to manipulate their kids. Well, I mean, with my, with my one 15 year old, like somebody told me that and I was like, Oh yeah, I was one hundred percent trying to manipulate this kid, like try to get it, but I mean, I think it's kind of what your goals are on that. Um, I bought a book called like Homestead Building Projects or something. Okay. And I put it on the table and I said, I told my husband, we had it like kind of scripted, you know, like I told him this whole plan of I need trellises for the garden. I don't have time to build trellises. My husband cannot build anything. Like it's kind of, it's a little sad. Yeah. He's an amazing mechanic, but he, he built a pig hut one time and it just, oh yeah. So, um, I put this book out and I talked about how I needed to trellis and I himmed and hot about it and complained, but I didn't have time to do it. And next thing I know this kid's over here flipping through the book. Well, what are you trying to do? Then he's out there looking to see if we have this stuff that he's coming in and being like, so I need three legs, this length, but I only have wood, you know, like what do I, and you know, what does this word mean? I can't read this word. How do I add this? It's in fractions. I hate fractions, you know, and so, and it even gave me opportunities where I could say, Hey, I hate fractions too. I actually don't. And I showed him how he could calculate a fraction with his calculator or how he could look up the conversions because I realized that he's not the kid who's ever going to get it, but he was very interested in construction. So he's going to have to be working with it all the time. So why don't I just give him the tools? Right. Yes. Um, he ended up building me three trellises, um, then found a place where he could source free materials and he started selling those trellises and he was trying to hustle them to the neighbor and the neighbor offered him a job in his maggot farm. That's a whole nother story. He ended up working in the maggot farm where he could feed our animals first and then go work at the maggot farm. And then from there, he met a guy on the fire department who offered him a job as an electrician's apprentice and he did that for five years. And now he's trying to start his own business. Right. So yes, I was absolutely trying to manipulate him and I wouldn't change that, uh, story for anything. Well, and I mean, we, any education, when, you know, kids go to school too, like there's certain things that they just, they have to do. You, you make them do it. So in this way, I guess at least when, when something is their own idea, I would say maybe not always, but especially boys sometimes it makes them take more ownership of it and it makes them more excited to do it. I, I find it interesting, my older kids, my two oldest are girls, but they're always doing things that I think I would have had to, that would have been like an assignment at school and you guys just came up with it as something fun. It happens all the time. Like, I'm like, oh, you just did a creative writing project. Like, cool. My kids found a turtle and it turned into like a two week long unit study that they were like designing themselves. Like my high schoolers and my eight year olds doing it together. And I was like, I have fun. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. They're looking at videos, they're drawing pictures of turtles. They're looking for books about turtles. Right. They, they built a whole little like aquarium for turtles, but ended up putting a pre-manus in it, you know, like it. Yeah. It was a whole thing. Yep. Yeah. My, I, they, they'll do unit studies too. If you put it that way, like there's things that they're, they get into and I'm like, you just took that really far because you had free time and you had the supplies, you know, the time, the tools and just the space to do it. And so that, believe it or not, actually does happen. I, I'm always amazed thinking like that would have been an assignment. I didn't have to even come up with it. Yeah. And you know, I actually, I noticed in some of the questions that people sent in that one of them was like, you know, how, what do you do when kids have questions and you don't know, you don't have the answer? Yeah. Do you look it up or do you, um, make them do it? And honestly, it just depends on the child and like, but that's. Yeah. And the day, some days I'm like, I'm sorry, I do not have the time, but here's the tools, go ahead and sometimes it's like, okay, yeah, let's look this up together. And I think them seeing that I don't have all the answers, but that I'm willing to be a lifelong learner. Yep. Is like the key on that one. And, you know, we, we always have the conversation of whether or not they should be on, you know, tablets or electronics. And I always say, Hey, they're a tool. And if I can teach my kids to use them as a tool and sometimes that tool is for entertainment, but not always. Yeah. Then, you know, so it's like my eight year old will be in the car and he's like, Hey mom, why, whatever. And I'm driving and I don't know the answer. And so I've taught him how to, you know, do the voice thing to look at the answers. And then we end up having this really long conversation once he gets his, once we get the answer, but I'm not looking it up. He's getting a little bit of, you know, electronic time or something, but I'm not just like handing him a tablet and sending him away. Yeah. And I think those questions typically come from moms with really small children. And you still can, like you have a very like controlled little environment and you're still picturing every child as age three, which I understand, cause I was also once a mom, age three and one year old. But then when they're so much older and teenagers, you're like, wait, like, they're going to use these tools. Like it's not like you're going to, because of how you, what you do when they're three and four and five, which that is a good time to mostly avoid screens. That's, that's great. But for at some point in their lives, they're going to have that tool and they're going to use it, whether you would want them to or not, just like you do. Just like you're listening to the podcast right now. And so you at some point decided that having access to the internet was a good thing for you. Um, I think that's typically it's just kind of forgetting like, I don't know. When I was a young mom, it was really hard for me to picture what it would be like having older children and it's just so different. You know, there's some parts of it where I'm like, I am so happy with, with where we're at, like I never imagined it being like this. And then there's days where I go, I wish I could have done something better because I never imagined it being like this. And I think both of them are okay. But, you know, I have, you know, 17 year olds and I have, well, I mean, I have them up into their twenties, my step-sense are in their twenties. Yeah. That I've been raising them since they were little. Right. But my two teenage twins, they're the ones that I, they, I was a single mom with them. They, it was me and them while I was in college. Like I used to say us against the world, you know, and, uh-huh. Um, so I have a different relationship with them. But yeah, I pictured a lot of stuff that would be our relationship. That even when they were little, before I was a homeschooler, they would come to me sometimes when I was busy and have questions. And I didn't have that opportunity to tell them. And we used to keep a whiteboard in the kitchen to put like the grocery list. So I would just take a second and write down what they wanted to look up. And we would like do it on a Saturday afternoon, like make projects of it. Um, now as 17 year olds, they, the things I see them do and the way they advocate for themselves is really amazing. They both have neurodivergencies and they handle that. And feeling my daughter, she really wants to be a vet, but she's severely dyslexic. She's teaching herself honors biology this year and she does most the work, but has me read to her out of the textbook so that she's getting all those words right. Okay. And she's like, I could use the audio book, but I feel like us being able to conversate about it would be better. Whereas then she knows her spelling is really bad. And so she asked if she could get explode the code and do phonics with her little brothers this year to help her learn while she's doing it. And she's like, that's that way I can learn, but I'm not having to do that curriculum because I would purposely scan over it going, Oh, I know that. Cause she's like, I know it. I know the rules, but I can't use them in practice. So I had, if I have to stop and explain it to them, she's like, hopefully it'll rewire my brain. And I'm like, Oh, yes. She's like, can you make a reel about it, mom? I was like, Oh, I absolutely feel so. Then that was fun too. Because she helps me run my business. And so she's always got that business mindset. She's been doing the shipping since she was 13. So that's awesome. So you hired a full-time assistant and my husband's like, are you going to give the shipping to her? And I'm like, no, Savannah's got it. Like, it's yeah, I don't want to re-explain that to somebody else when somebody's so good at it already. So they work, they work together and I don't have to touch it anymore. The assistant does the customer service. My daughter does the shipping. That's amazing. So yeah. She's also great. Like we go to conferences and she'll be like, mom, how many tables do we have? How many people are coming? Is it a homestead conference? Is it a homeschool conference? And I tell her and she does all the ordering for it. She packs everything. She goes, she travels with me to most of them. And we get there and she's like, mom, you go network or go speak or whatever it is that I have to do. And she sets up the whole table and runs it and it's just such an amazing. And she even, somebody was kind of giving her a hard time about the whole homeschool concept today and she's like, I can run a business. Can you? Right. Yeah, seriously. I love that confidence. Yeah. It's, it's amazing to me. Teenagers are so like, they just start, they, there's so much they can do. Like I, I'm always given my oldest daughter and my second oldest, like jobs and I'm like, Hey, can you handle this? Just like anything, like they can handle so many things. Like if we were to have a family gathering or something, you know, when you're a young mom, you need to think through the menu and what you're going to get for that. And I'm like, Hey, can you please go get all the things that we need for this and then make it and then, and then like completely like play on the whole entire party they can do. Oh yeah. My daughter did things giving all by herself last year and we had two families like coming to visit and I was just like, it's busy season for me. And she's like, I got it. Like we're good. So yeah, they can totally, they're just capable of so much. Like it's like another two more adults in the house is what it's like. With, and then afterwards she's like, I got a lot of videos, mom. So do you, where do you want me to upload them? That's awesome. But then, you know, then I sometimes, I'm reminded that they're teenagers because she does things like, Hey mom, I forgot my password. I don't know how to log in. And I'm like, did you try? No, yeah, there's, there's. I'm like, did you try just clicking in the box? Because I saved all your passwords for you in Chrome. And she's like, Oh, no, I didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, they sleep in, you know, you're like, okay, it's 10 o'clock like because we had a busy weekend and then teenagers can do things like that. And you're like, no, you need to get up and do things too. Like it's not, I guess it's not totally like an adult because yeah, my husband. He's got to wake up and get busy. But my husband's out of town right now because my father-in-law is not doing well. And so our 17 year old son is running the whole farm, which he usually actually does. Like he's kind of my, he's autistic and he runs, but he runs our whole dairy. It's his dairy that he started when he was 12. And so then with that, I'm like, if you're up there feeding your cows every morning, you're feeding the pigs, my house, you know, dad will handle other stuff. And with my husband had to leave in like 36 hours. It was like, oh, you have to walk out the door. And my son's handling everything. He's like, hey, mom, we're out of hay. Like can you make arrangements to go get some? Like we're out of firewood. I'm just going to go cut some. And like, I just, I was like, oh, do you know how to use the chainsaw? He's like, yeah, I've been using it for a couple of years. I've done the maintenance by myself, but he's like, I think I got it. I'll call dad if I have questions. I'm like, I'm not going to touch it then. Yeah, it's amazing. Okay. One of the questions that we got, which I think is a good, at least a good thing, probably to end on is if you could give one piece of advice, and I know this whole episode wasn't about homeschooling, but whatever it's a good one, to a new homeschooling mom, what would it be? You know, I think we touched on it a little bit, but it's don't try to do all the things and do what feels comfortable to you. Because I've tried like right now, we're really busy in life and we're not hitting school every day. And honestly, that doesn't feel comfortable to me. Not that we do school every day anyways, but we're probably a couple of weeks behind right now. And that doesn't feel comfortable to me. And so I've scheduled time for myself every morning to do school. And even my husband's like, you're busy. Why are you putting school as a priority? I said, because it didn't feel comfortable to me. Yeah, he didn't like that, but made it feel like everything else wasn't, like the pieces weren't in place. But at the same time, when I was trying to do all the things and teach all the kids a different curriculum at their age level, and we do it for four hours a day. And like trying to check all the boxes while they're still, like they're wrestling, they're doing 4-H there, all the things. And I was a mess when I was upgrading assignments and like a full-time teacher. And that didn't feel good either. So do your research, find out what your laws are for your state and stuff like that to make sure you are checking the boxes that you have to. But do what feels good to you and what feels good to your kids, because the most important thing is your relationship and everything else will fall into place. Yeah, it truly will. I was talking to a mom at an event we were at recently, and she has several children. She has more kids than me. And she was saying that a lot of the homeschool moms that she knows do XYZ. And she's like, and I just can't seem to do what they're doing. And like, do they have like three or four kids? And you know, we're like, you know, because I'm like, usually the moms that say those things have like three or four kids. And it is just an entirely different thing. Like you cannot compare what you are doing to them. But also your kids are getting different experiences that theirs aren't. And so they could be possibly comparing themselves to you in a way that really wouldn't be fair either. And, you know, I think it's just knowing what your situation is like the ages, the personalities, like you said, you have some autism, some ADHD, that's a whole different thing. The number of children, like you have a blended family, like there's just different factors. Yeah. And to think that there's one. Like my eight year old is not planning Thanksgiving dinner. So if their oldest is eight. That's not happening. There's, yeah. Yes. So there's just so many factors to consider. And this mom, you know, like even though older kids can do so many things, there's also like a lot of obligations that come with having older kids. And so you're, there are just a lot of moving parts with a large family, with a large age range. And then, you know, there's just, it just isn't one size fits all at all. And so, you know, I think that's an encouragement for younger moms is to just, like you said, I mean, what feels comfortable for you now, if it feels comfortable for you to sit and watch TV all day and like not do anything, well, that's not going to be good. That's maybe not what I meant. I know. I think it did. Yeah. But I think, you know, homeschool sometimes has that stereotype, like, like there's going to be these lazy parents who aren't doing anything. Absolutely not. It's just like, if there's more things to do in a day than you can reasonably do from morning until night, like you're, you know, you stay busy all day long and you still can't get all that done, then something has to give. That's just not going to be. Yeah. Okay. You know. Well, I mean, I also, I see a lot of all these, you know, new mental illnesses that everybody has. And, you know, maybe I have a couple of them too. But one of them is young, like mom's age, talking about how their parents, what's the word for it, Prentification. Oh boy. Have I ever heard of that? Yes. We were designed to be multi-generational families. That is how we were designed as families, like, as like humans. That's how God made us. Yeah. And, and then that's how we've been sociologically for thousands of years. Stop trying to make it bad that I'm teaching my daughter to cook dinner. Oh, because that's the skills she needs when she goes out into the real world. Uh-huh. Well, a lot of times it'll be the same, the same people, because, you know, this is like an ungrateful, entitled sort of attitude. And so it'll be the same people who will say, like, I can't do things because I was never taught to, but then it's the same ones who are like, don't teach people to do things that are, you know, and you have a lot of times I'm like, if you cook dinner, then I have time to take you to go be a teenager. Exactly. Oh yeah. And my kids have, like, despite some of the things they can help with, they get to be just teenagers, like way more than, than they, you know, don't. Then you probably think they do. Oh, we live 40 minutes from town. Yeah. So a lot of times we have to plan them being teenagers. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah, mine do. Like, there's just so many times where they have plans. And so Luke and I like hardly ever get to go on date nights anymore. And I like that because I'm glad that they're teenagers. Like that's, that's all good. But it's not like they're just always here to do whatever we want. But when they are here, they're really useful. Although my daughter had a, like a date the other night, like she's 17. Like we kind of are just, I like that she wants to date while she's still at home. To learn healthy habits. But I'm also not like, go do your thing, you know, but he's a nice boy, I go to church, his family owns a gun shop. So, you know, I'm always good with that. And she, they were meeting at the gun shop and then walking to get something to eat. And I had something I had to do. And she goes, well, why don't I just take the boys? And she took her two little brothers with her. And she was like, we have the best time. Yeah. Like, she's like his grandma at the shop taught all the boys, the boys about like, old coins and stuff like that that they had in the shop. They had a really good time. They had a conversational buffer. And it wasn't, you know, she was totally okay with it. There was no like, oh, I have to take the boys. Oh yeah. No, sometimes they come up with that themselves. I think like you said the conversational buffer, we've been places where my tanger will grab the baby from me. And I'm like, I know why you just took that child. Like, you know, like, hey, like, if, you know, if something gets awkward, it's like, oh, sweet guy. Like, you know, I pull distraction. I know that trick. Yeah. My daughter's the oldest at co-op. So she definitely uses her little siblings to, you know, either like one bridge the conversational gap or to get out of like maybe having to do class herself. Right. Right. Yeah. Oh, she's, I'll take your homestead science class this year, mom. And I was like, cool. Then she's like, but I plan on teaching. And then like, I don't know, she's, she actually has done a wonderful job. She's taught a couple of the classes herself. But at the same time, I know that that was her way of not actually having to take another class. So yeah. No, it's, it's super fun having multiple age, like a multiple age range. Like people get really fearful of that when they're a young mom, if they're thinking they're going to have a lot of children, like, okay, what's it like when there's a big age gap and it's mostly just really fun. And you won't believe how much like the teenagers enjoy their siblings. Truly. Like it's not like you, people just think like if they ever see a teenager with a child, like it was forced. I'm like, no, they took that kid from me. Well, and then I noticed when we switched, when they were all going to public school, they hated each other. Okay. So that might be a dynamic that is more like it's created, not necessarily like a given. It's a created. It's that, that stigma of like you fight with your siblings and, you know, that's what everybody's talking about and doing. And oh, my brother's so down, you know, and being home, they're each other's best friends. And within a year, I saw that shift. And they're still all really close, even the ones that have moved out. They were their step siblings, but they shared a bedroom. Yeah. And a life for eight years. And they still talk on the phone regularly. And they want to spend time with each other. And we went to a Halloween party their night. And there was other teenagers there and partaking in activities that maybe I wasn't like all on board with. And I was somebody was like, oh, I was a twin and or I'm a twin. I had this twin sister. And I was like, oh, did you guys hate each other like mine do? And he's like, they're sitting over there like talking and having a great time together. I would have never talked to my sister like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, so they just hate each other at home. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, it really is a beautiful dynamic. Not always, obviously, like they fight to like, let's not, but yeah, it's. I posted a really good day of the kids processing chickens and then like my daughter turning and trying to stab her brother with an eye or with a pair of scissors. I always edit those things out, but yeah. I edit those things in because. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to give a false, yeah. The picture. You know, I kind of feel like, well, and you know, I don't have a YouTube and stuff. It's just too much. And my husband being a veteran has too much of a mouth. So I can't really do that. But yeah, and I can add in like the silliness that's happening in our house. Then I'm not just, you know, somebody else processing chickens. Everybody's processing chickens and putting that online or not everybody, but everybody in our niche, you know. Right. Yeah. But when I can put those fun family dynamics, like I had, you know, five tips for when you're processing your chickens, make sure you label the packages, make sure you wash your hands, that type of stuff, and don't trust teenagers with sharp objects. Little element of humor. Absolutely. All right. Tell the listeners where they can find you, your curriculum, your podcast, your socials, and what you have upcoming that you're currently talking about. Definitely. So I have my book on raising self-sufficient kids. It's an honest mom's guide to intentional parenting. You can get that both on Amazon or my website. And then I have my homestead science curriculum, which is, you know, for all grades, we're constantly adding new mini units and things like that that work for families. You can get that all on my website at thehomesteadeducation.com. That's also where you can find my podcast and, you know, kind of things that we have moving forward is we're working on a history course, which has been a lot of talk and a lot of excitement over the last couple of years, but I am writing it myself. So grace, please. Yes, lots of time. I'm sure. And every time I write something, then something changes. And I realized that I should probably come at it from a different angle. So. Oh, yeah. I bet that's a tough topic. It's very challenging. And then I'm also just really trying to gather the, you know, rally the troops on making this change in, you know, the systemic issues that we're having in teaching from a young age. And I'm working with private schools and charter schools and getting my program in there. I'm working with micro schools on getting like FFA programs. We've been to DC talking about how to make changes, a rural education and that type of stuff. So, you know, definitely make sure you hop over and listen to the things that we're doing on the site and be part of the change for both your own family and for others. Awesome. Well, we will leave links down in the show notes, the description box below, wherever you're watching this or listening to this and people can go check that out. I appreciate that. Yeah. So thank you so much, Cody. Thank you. Thanks as always for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband, Luke and I and our kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes in daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmhouseonboone.com. And to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at bit. B-I-T dot L-Y forward slash farmhouse sourdough course. That's all one word. Bit.ly forward slash farmhouse sourdough course. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at B-I-T dot L-Y forward slash farmhouse YouTube course. All one word.