The Turkish Rug Pull

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support. Happy Dating Detectives Monday! Yay! Hi Mackenzie, you have the cutest glasses on there, like hearts, you look so happy. Aren't they cute? They're little prescription glasses. And I was like, oh my gosh, I had to get these in prescription. They're heart shape. And yeah, my assistant had some and I was like, I want some. And so I copied her. If that doesn't sum you up. I love it. And I love them. It's honestly a good, not to be like, here's a seamless segue, but like this story as crazy and as annoying as it is, you're going to leave feeling like, hell yeah. Like there's rare that we leave feeling super positive, but I'm like, I feel revved up after this one. Yeah. You guys are, today's episode is wild. You're going to think, you know, what happens at the end, but hold the phone, hold your panties on because you have no idea. It's just wait. It's so good. I also want to say a disclaimer. That's very important. We do have a moment in the episode where we jump in with this disclaimer, but I want to add it to the beginning because I want it to be so clear that she does do something in the episode that we do not condone you'll know I'm reiterating it here she involves queer people in her revenge they are not harmed and that's I mean she shouldn't have done it and she knows that and we do not condone it we should not involve strangers at all without their consent in anything that we're doing. In this context, these dogfish were super homophobic and she beat them at their own game. She scammed a scammer and that never happens. Like in over 130 episodes, nobody has successfully gotten any kind of justice in this way. And for that, we must celebrate to some extent. And our reactions are big and they were largely because the fact that these guys were so gross and homophobic that this plan even worked was so bonkers. So I just don't want anyone to interpret our reactions as co-signing the behavior. We don't. And she put them in harm's way, and she knows that. It's dangerous. Do not. Do not, do not. That is all I wanted to say. But you know us, guys. We want to share any story. There's no perfect victim. And we really love Lena. Like, she is a good person. And she recognizes that it was a really crazy period to be in after being dogfished. And her behavior is, we don't know how we'd react. You know, we say the same things every time. So we totally understand if it's difficult to listen to. And we appreciate your thoughtful feedback. But this is her story. And it deserves to be told. Shout out to Lena's friend who encouraged her to submit her story. Thank you. Well, no, she submitted it for her. And she said, hey, you don't know who these folks are. She's like, I've never heard of the dating detective so high, but I don't know if I condone that. But it did work out and I'm happy about it. It was amazing. Yeah, I think we should get into it, shall we? I am so excited. Yeah, I am too. Okay, let's give it to Lena. Okay, so we have Lena with us. And Lena, first of all, thank you for being here and sharing with us. And I would love to give you the floor so you can take us on your journey. Sure. Thanks for having me. Let me start by just giving you a little bit of background about myself. I am divorced and part of my free time is spent traveling internationally. So I have gone extensively around the world as part of my joy and soul. And I've got, thank you. I've gone to almost 40 countries. Holy bananas. Yeah. Are you a big solo traveler or do you go with friends or both? I'd say 50-50. In recent years, more solo. Good for you. I love it. It's great. That's so cool. In recent years, I've spent more time in the Middle East. And I've really enjoyed learning about Arab culture and Islam and read the Quran several times. And so that has been very intriguing for me. So I spent my 50th birthday this past October in Turkey because it's this great blend of Asia, Europe, the Middle East, all this stuff. And I thought there's no better way to be for such a milestone birthday than in Turkey. So that's where this story begins. An independent solo traveler celebrating a milestone birthday. I wish you weren't here because that sounds like it could be such a wonderful story. Amazing adventure. Oh, and listen, it was. I mean, I had a fantastic time. Turkey is a beautiful country with amazing food and a sultan history with the Ottoman Empire and amazing mosques, beautiful people, a rich history. and it's wonderful until you run into a terrible romance scam. Oh no. So I had saved this particular mosque for my birthday because it was just so, so special that I wanted it to be the last thing I visited before I went home. So I saved it for my 50th birthday. And, you know, having traveled extensively, I've got bookcases filled of knickknacks. And I was like, I don't need another Chotsky to dust. So I'm going to book a really fun photo shoot day of my birthday and found this great photographer who has just a myriad of fun, romantic dresses. and you can pick out the one you want, whatever color, whatever style, and meet them at sunrise in front of this mosque. Everybody should do that kind of photo shoot just for a me moment. Absolutely. You know, and I've recently lost weight and I'm- Good for you. That's always hard. I'm feeling myself. And this mosque is just romance and history and love. And it's just incredible. So I booked this photo shoot. We meet at 5 a.m. It's just us and the pigeons and cobblestone, and it's just absolutely the best time. So later I get to my hotel. I change into my everyday clothes, and I am walking toward the mosque, and I'm feeling really good. I've got my hair done extra nice. My makeup's extra special because I just did this photo shoot. I'm 50 years old. I am living exactly the way I want to live because as I said, I'm divorced. My son is doing well. I'm just really content. How old is your son? He's 20. 20. Okay. So I'm just feeling just so full of gratitude and love. And I walk toward the mosque and I hear this man call out to me from a side cafe, excuse me, are you, are you Turkish? Now this is not an uncommon event for me at all. I don't know if you agree with this, but given my features, well, wait a minute, they're not going to see me. This is a podcast. Okay. That's all right. You can describe. I'll just, yeah. Okay. So I have olive skin and dark features and people often think that perhaps I am local until the American accent, of course. And so this was not a red flag for me whatsoever. And I said, no, but, you know, I sure would like to be. This is such a beautiful country. And so we start talking again, not unusual. Turkish folks are incredibly hospitable. I've been there a week. I've spent lots of time with other people on buses, shopkeepers, restaurant people. To sit and talk for a few minutes is not unusual in the least. It's part of the reason I love Mediterranean and Levant countries. So he's like, where are you? Where are you headed to? And I said, oh, I'm going to the mosque. And he said, can I walk with you for a little bit? I have a friend that owns a store. It's really beautiful. I'd love to show it to you. And you know what? It's my last day there and I haven't finished any shopping. So perfect. So he walks me to the store. It's actually a really beautiful store and I'm glad to be there. and he immediately takes me upstairs to where the rugs are, which I thought was a little strange. Like, why not just let me browse? But again, I don't think much of it. I would just assume he's like a salesperson. Totally. Wants to push a rug on me. Totally. Not a big deal. And this is where I meet Kamal. And Kamal is larger than life. He is bombastic. He is hilarious. he is exactly the type of person that I love to engage with and so we just hit it off like two thieves which is a very ironic thing to say now so he's sitting on this big leather couch like he's I want to describe him for you because he's really fun he's got like a turtleneck sweater on with like a leather jacket some gold rings I mean he's just you could stop at the turtleneck and leather jacket and like I get it just a character yeah I get it character I feel like he's part of the godfather like yeah just so fun and he's like come and sit with me and I'm like sure I'm gonna sit with you and he brings Turkish tea which is always what they do and then he's like let's have snacks we're having snacks he's trying to sell me a rug I'm like I'm not buying a rug and he's like yeah you are and I said sure try to sell me a rug it's not gonna happen and we're just like roasting each other and why aren't you buying a rug I said because I've been all over the world I got enough rugs but he's like but you've never had a Turkish rug and I go and I never will I mean we're just like the yeah it's like it's really great I'm holding my own you can tell he's not used to this because this is not their culture where a woman is pushing back, you know, like this is really fun for me. And he says as much, he goes, you know, women don't normally talk to me like this. And I said, well, I'm not most women. Like we're just like, yeah, we're just giving it to each other, but it's with great humor, right? It's a lot of fun. And this is exactly my style of communication, right? The, you called it nagging. Yeah. The nagging people give that a bad for people that don't know. Negging is like when you flirt by like teasing. Yeah. Yeah. And it can be really bad because it can be like someone trying to cut you down, but I know there's a level of it. That's just funny. It was like, look, I'm not buying a rug. I came to shop. I thought I was going to look at like shot skis downstairs, but you know, I get it. You think I have money. I don't have money. I travel too much. Ask my credit card. I don't have money. so we're interacting. It's great. We probably spend an hour together, but it's fine because it's early in the morning. And so I was like, seriously, I'm not buying a rug. And he goes, okay, go downstairs and see if you like anything down there. And I did, I clocked a few things. I was like, no problem. One thing I wish I knew about earlier in my life is that credit cards are not magical money. like in college, I just thought credit cards were magical money. And if I didn't pay it back, it's fine. But it held over me on my credit report for years and years and years and years and years. And so bad credit just makes everything harder from renting an apartment, getting a fair rate on anything. Ava helps turn the table so you can finally get the credit you deserve. Ava is a credit building app that's designed to work fast and help your credit score where it really matters. So your credit score can start climbing with almost zero effort. 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And it totally looks like they could be related. And he says, do you think he's handsome? I said, yeah, sure. And he goes, well, he's married. You can't have him. Okay. I don't want him. Come on. Like, I'm not here to fall in love. I'm here to go to the palace. What the fuck, you know? And I said as much. And again, the roasting is continuing, right? And then he says, see this other guy? Also my nephew. He's also married. You can't have him. And we're just, you know, being silly. and then he pulls out his phone and he shows me a picture and he says do you like this one and I said I I like this pashmina like what the hell and this guy on the phone is stupid good looking I mean like I was just oh lord he says this is my other nephew and he's available and I'm like are you I've I said are you his pimp like what the fuck literally he went from selling rugs to selling his nephews. So he goes, Oh, don't be crass. I'm just telling you. I said, well, I'm here for the mosque. How much is this Pashmita? Like, I'm trying to get us back on track because I don't, it's my last day. I'm not into this. And then he yells out his name. He's like, Emil, Emil, come meet Lina. She's hilarious. So I'm getting a little on my heels. And then this man this Turkish god of a man comes around the corner I was done I was done like I don't know I've never seen a man look like this it was a lot like he like sexy yes just okay y'all imagine yeah I get it tall dark and handsome probably for real yeah yeah just and did he have like a charisma too oh so much riz I mean I was sunk I was done for and I'm not really that twitipated like I'm pretty logical but I was done and then Kamal is like Emil it's Lena's birthday today and he was like well I won't ask you how old you are because you're timeless I mean I was like oh my god for real for real and I mean normally I would roll my eyes but you did not see this man it was crazy I was like stoopedified yeah and that's real yeah it was we all been there yes too much and he's like so what are you doing for your birthday and I said oh I'm just I'm buying any rug you try to sell me I don't know I'll take anything right so I just go I'm going to the mosque and he's like and then going to lunch like I was I'm dead I know and then he's like I think I should take you to dinner oh and I was like oh no that's fine it's good everything no it's fine probably not no like I'll just I'll just have crackers or something like I go what were you thinking and he's like that there's this really beautiful fish restaurant it's just gorgeous it's very romantic and I I was like is it nice and he goes it's so nice and the dress I was wearing was like this little it was long and it was like modest, but it was cotton. And I said, oh, this is my nicest dress. And he says, oh, it's not a problem. I'll have my driver take you shopping and it's on me. This sounds like an episode of Sex and the City. Yes. This is what Samantha would get into. Yes. A hundred percent. And I was like, what? And then he was like, but here's the thing, Lena. it's fine either way this is what I want to do I want to give you my number and you go to the mosque and you decide what's right for you I was so impressed by the politeness the respect the non-pressure like I loved it so I said that sounds really good thank you So I bought the pashmina, I took his number, and then I'm going to make my way to the mosque. And then right at that moment, the call to prayer begins. And that is with the call to prayer is five times a day in Islam. And so it comes over the loudspeaker. So the public knows when to begin. And he says to me, oh, you know, Lena, you can't go to the mosque right now because they're closed for prayer. And I'm thinking, no, they're not. Like, this is a public mosque. They're not closed to prayer. And I researched this, but I don't say this out loud just in case I'm wrong. I mean, he lives there. He would know. And he's like, so why don't you stay and talk to me a little bit longer? Oh. Well, they're closed for prayer. and I'm like oh okay sure so we do and he is a total gentleman and continues to ask me questions and get me more emotionally hooked on him and just investing and being lovely and wants to know everything about me so we're done talking I decide to go to the mosque and of course the mosque is amazing and I'm just feeling really happy I had this beautiful photo shoot. I had fun banter with uncle. There's a hot guy that wants to take me out for my birthday dinner. I bought a beautiful pashmina. Now I'm in this like legendary mosque that's been around for hundreds of centuries. I mean, come on. This is a perfect day. It's a perfect day. And you know, I woke up that morning saying the same mantra I've been saying for years, which is God show me how good it can be. So he did, right? He did. But it gets even better. I exit the mosque and every mosque has a beautiful outdoor courtyard. I mean, just the mosaic tiling, the water fountain, and the courtyard looks up to the sky. I'm just sitting there just having so much gratitude. and then all of a sudden a bird poops on the top of my hijab. And if you know anything about signs, that is a very good sign. I was going to say, that's a good sign. I know. That's a good sign. It's like good luck, right? It is good luck. Interesting. There's a scene in Under the Tuscan Sun where Diane Lane's character is trying to buy a villa in Tuscany. She doesn't have enough money. there's other people trying to buy the villa at the same time she has the lowest offer and so she says okay I get it you probably want to sell to the highest bidder no problem and as she's leaving a bird poops on her head and the owner of the villa says I'm going to sell it to you because it's good luck and so as soon as this happens I think of that scene I think of how he's half Italian. I'm just like, oh my God, this is my rom-com. Yeah. That's exactly what I thought. I was like, I asked God to show me how good it can be. And I am literally in a rom-com. I was in a gorgeous red dress this morning. Now a bird has pooped on me. Like who's going to do the soundtrack? This is amazing. Main character energy. Yeah. I'm just like, I'm going to say yes to this date for sure. And I walk outside and he's right there on the bench waiting for me. And yeah, that was, I was like, okay, stage five clinger vibes. Right? Yeah. Both of our faces were just kind of like, okay. So I walk over to him and I go, Emil, what you doing? And he goes, you're not familiar with the neighborhood. And I just want to make sure that you had what you needed. If you needed directions, if you needed to why is my first thought like do you have a job like why are you like able to hang out and just like around a person yeah do you know what he does for a living yeah the job is the store okay okay so that makes sense yeah so very flexible there and the store is right by the mosque okay okay it's totally fine it's fine yeah i mean at first i was like why are you here and then he He goes, I just want to make sure, like, if you need directions, you said you had some shopping to do. Do you need? And so it kind of added up for me. And I said, oh, no, I'm good. And then he was like, do you want to spend the day together? Do you want to do anything? And I didn't. Like, I didn't. I mean, I like to solo travel. I love it. Yeah, and he wasn't weird about it. He was like, okay, cool. And I was like, but I do want to go to dinner. And he was like, that's great. and so I you know gave him the address of my hotel and we agreed on the time and that was it so I was really excited for this date I mean yeah I FaceTimed my sister told her everything about it she was like I love that both for the gabbing and for letting someone know what you're doing I just was so excited. And she's like, have a wonderful time. You deserve this. And he was so respectful. He was running a little bit late. I mean, five minutes and texted me. I know he gets there so respectful. The date was wonderful. The banter was good. It was just, I don't know. It was just all good. Halfway through the meal, he says, I'm sure you make great money at your career. And I said, I do. I do. OK, because, you know, but everybody could use a little bit more. OK, sure. He says, my uncle was really taken with you. And I said, yeah, I mean, I enjoyed getting to know him, too. And he says the tariffs with your president have been really hard on our business. And we have so many investors in America that really rely on our Turkish rugs. And, you know, they're very expensive. They're made of silk. They're hand done. And it's just been so challenging to continue to sell them at the rate that we do with these tariffs. And I was like, OK. And he goes, so my uncle wanted to talk to you about getting involved in the business. And you're like, is this a date or an interview? So he like we have some pretty big players in Dallas and New York and they buy huge quantities of rugs at a time either for wholesale or for their penthouses Sometimes they want to exchange rugs when they move to bigger houses but the tariffs are like really hurting our business So uncle wants to know if we can use your address to send the rugs to save on tariffs and we'll split the tariff money with you. And I'm like, oh, okay. So what do I, what do I need to do? And he's like, you just need to receive the rocks. And I was like, okay. And he's like, and then in about six to eight weeks, we'll be there to pick them up. And this is what got me. He says, and if we want to spend more time together, we can. Walk me through the thoughts in your head as you're hearing this. I'm totally on board. I mean, I would love to make some money and I would love to see this guy. You never had any thoughts about it being a scam right now? No, God, no. God, no. You're like, this guy's nice. Well, he hasn't asked you for money. The only thing he's asked you for is like your personal address. That's right. That's right. He's only asked me to send rugs. Or to receive rugs. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I don't know anything about tariffs, so it has not occurred to me. Who does? Yeah. yeah so like now that the whole thing's over i'm like wait you still have to fucking pay tariffs when you yeah that's i was thinking i was like i'm trying to understand how it saves him money i guess if you're directly sent i still go over this and i'm like how the fuck did he explain it again i don't know but he did he's saying we're gonna do the paperwork in the store that alleviates the tariffs and then we use your address so we just need to have you receive them Then we're going to pick them up in six weeks. And then we're going to give you about $10,000 in tariff money saved that you'll receive in about eight weeks. I'm glad you shared the amount because that's a lot of money that would make anyone go, I could see why you'd be like, oh yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And he pulls out his phone and he's on WhatsApp and he's showing me all these buyers with penthouses, with beautiful mansions, with rugs. And I have no reason to doubt this guy. It looks so legit. And then he spends a couple of minutes during the dinner afterward saying, I'm sorry to be obtuse, but I need to contact some of my clients. It's an 11 hour difference. So we're having dinner, but it's like 10 a.m. in New York and he needs to update the clients on where the rugs are. All seems legit to me. delete me makes it easy quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable this episode is about scamming a lot of our episodes are and i feel like scams online are getting crazier and crazier mackenzie can you tell us from your expertise as a pi how something like delete me could help someone protect themselves? Yeah. So it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. So having your address, phone number, family members, names, hanging out all willy-nilly on the internet can have actual consequences in the real world and make everyone vulnerable. So with Delete Me, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. Actually, the New York Times Wirecutter has named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services. They basically find information online that you want removed. They remove it for you and they send you a personalized report to tell you what they found, where they found it and what they removed. So you can take control of your data. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to join delete me.com slash dating detectives and use promo code TDD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to join delete me.com slash dating detectives and enter code TDD at checkout. That's join delete me.com slash dating detectives code TDD. 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And normally I would not do this. Right. So I was like, well, of course I want to be with you because I'm going to see you again. If I was never going to see him again, I'd be like, thanks for dinner. You know? Yeah. Right. I would enjoy spending more time with this person. Yeah. We're starting something here. This is great. He had also told me the way that he had learned English so well is because he had an American girlfriend for nine years. so I think okay you've had this girlfriend you visited her regularly with the rug exchange I'm gonna be the next one like I was excited so you're thinking maybe this could turn into something yes and and honestly I told you I don't really care for American men anymore and I don't want a full-time boyfriend I don't need somebody in my space like having somebody across the world that I see a few times a year and maybe travel with sounds delightful. I get that. I get that. And I mean, he had seemed like he had a decent living, had a driver pick you up. It's like, this could be a nice companion. Absolutely. Yeah. So I check out of my little boutique hotel and he takes me to this like five-star situation and he carries my bags and he pays for it and we check into the room and he says when you get situated go ahead and look out the window and I'm like okay so I get my pajamas on and brush my teeth and I look out the window and it is this killer view of the mosque oh beautiful I love this and I love a five-star hotel. So we had a romantic evening and the next morning I was getting ready for my flight and he was sleeping in. And honestly, I was just like, I guess we're not going to do the business thing. And honestly, I don't care either way because he was really sleeping in. And then all of a sudden his alarm goes off and he's like, are you, are you ready to go? Like, are your bags packed? We need to go see uncle. Like he's got breakfast ready for us. and I was like okay but like I got you ready to go sleepy yeah now right but I was like I really got to make this flight on time so what time should I be at the airport I don't know how busy it's going to be he's like it's not going to be that busy it's not gonna be that busy it's it's it's October it's not that busy but like we have to go to the store uncle's waiting for us and he's like really really really rushed but again I was like well then why the fuck are we so late I gotta to, you know, got to get at the airport. So we get there and uncle's got this beautiful, huge breakfast. It's great. And he's like, how was dinner? Was Emil a gentleman? And I said, he was a total gentleman and we had a great time. Good, good. And then I should add that, as soon as we came into the store, I don't know where my bags went. I mean, he was carrying them, which was nice, but I remember thinking, where are my bags? And I asked, and he was like, don't worry I have them but I was like oh okay that's not what I asked and then we went upstairs to the rug room and almost as soon as Emil had a little bit of breakfast and coffee he left and I remember thinking that's super weird because we just had this date and this night together and I'm about to say goodbye no he just left the room I'm sorry yeah he just left the room I thought he it's like going to the bathroom or something, because why wouldn't you say goodbye? And I'm left with uncle. And then uncle is like, so Emil talked to you about the business deal. And I said, Oh, yeah. He said, because you know, we really trust you. We really want you to be a part of the family. And we've had other people in the past screw us over. And we wouldn't want that. And I was like, now my now my alarms are going off. I said, What do you mean screw you over? Well, we had someone in New York that we sent the rugs to, very, very expensive rugs. And they didn't answer the door when we came. Oh. And I said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. How terrible. So now they're the victims. Yeah, exactly. And I said, why do you think that happened? And he immediately gets pissed off. He goes, don't talk to me like that. Oh, okay. Well, you're like, what happened yesterday? Yeah. And it's that vibe of like, no woman talks to a man like that. And I said, Kamal, I'm simply curious as to why you think this business deal went south. I'm simply curious. I says, Lena, I don't want to talk about this. It doesn't matter. It's in the past. And so he's like, are you going to do this with us? Because, you know, it'd be great to help you make $10,000. And then, you know, we split it and the stuff. And I'm like, sure, that's fine. I mean, you can use my address. And he says, okay, so we just need the 35,000. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Dollars. Yes. Not Turkish lira. Dollars. And I said, 35,000, not 3500. Wait, from you? Yes. Zero, zero, zero. Yes. And they were going to give you your money back and give you the 10,000. Correct. Did they say that before? Did I know? No. No. No, that was not set at the restaurant. I did not think so. That was new. This is new information. I would have never come back to the store. Never. No, because did you have money like that? Just chilling? Yeah. No, no. They wanted you to get it. Okay. So I said, excuse me? And he goes, yeah, well, you have to buy the rugs, Lena. I mean, why do you think this works? and he's just absolutely condescending and talking to me like I'm six years old. And this is kind of one of my core wounds to be perceived as not intelligent. And it's crazy how these motherfuckers can feel that. It's just crazy. Like, I don't know how they do it. It's wild. Yuck. And I said, well, that wasn't discussed at the restaurant. And he says, of course it was. Of course it was. Oh my God, what a gaslighter. My nephew has worked for me my whole life. And I'm thinking to myself, was it? I mean, I didn't drink anything at the restaurant. And you question yourself. Oh, yeah. I mean, here's the problem with culture is that you go out of your way to bend to culture so that you're not perceived as rude. And I love to learn about culture. I mean, I love it, but it also makes you a massive target to be empathetic to culture. You know? Yeah. It can be anything from learning, hey, when somebody offers you food, you never say no, even if you're just going to have a few bites, right? Could be something as like sweet as that. Right. All the way to, of course, we asked you for $35,000, you dumbass. Duh. Right? That's normal, duh. Right. Now, if an American had said that to me, I'd say, get fucked, you gaslighter. Yeah. But when a Turkish businessman who says you're like family says that, you think, have I offended this man without knowing it? Were you scared at all? 100 percent. And it gets worse. Oh, God. Because my flight's leaving. I don't know where my bags are. Yeah. Where is the meal? and I have to make this flight y'all I have to make this flight because as much as I love my employer I really test boundaries with her on how much time I'm away like she's an amazing boss so you're like no I need to get back yeah like there's just no part of me that can be like oh I got hung up with the Turkish mafia and I'm gonna be late to work I'm a mental health therapist in a hospital. So not showing up for work is like not possible. So yes, he's like, of course he said 35k. How else would this work, Lena? And I'm like, again, kind of making me feel like, you know, I can't help you if you're a dumbass. And I go, I don't know. I don't know how else it would work. I go, but I don't have 35k. And he's like, well, why not? I mean, you're a therapist. You work in America. Don't you make good money? And now I'm defending myself. I said, I make good money, but I also am divorced. And my son has a music career that I try to support. And you know, there's money like that. Just like, I don't have 35,000 in rug money. I know. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when you're scared, like you find yourself saying stupid stuff. And again, if this had been in America, I probably would have flipped the table and said, get fucked. But it's happening in a brand new country. And so I just, I, I panicked. I just panicked. He, I needed to get on that fucking flight. And so I said, I guess I could get it from my 401k. No, I did. And then he like hugged me and he was like that a girl. So I put 10% down on my credit card and did a promissory note to wire the rest and got the fuck out of there. And I know it. So you didn't like take it all out in that moment. No, no. I also didn't change my mind when I got home. I mean, it like the love bombing resumed as soon as I got to the airport. You know, I mean, I came downstairs and got my bags and was like, Emil, where the fuck were you? And he was like, oh, you know, uncle just prefers to do business alone. And I was like, I don't prefer to do business alone. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, but I also needed to work the store. We just got busy with customers. And I mean, it kind of made sense. So he was getting me into the taxi and he was really romantic. And he was like, babe, I'm so sorry if that was awkward for you. I just, you know, that's how he likes to do business. So it's really clear what everybody's expectations are. And I was like, okay, well, I didn't love that. And he was like, I'm so sorry, babe. And, you know, kissed my cheek. Yeah, it totally. and here's the thing about love bombing is I I've listened to your podcast enough to know that like a lot of people are like it's the biggest red flag of all okay I get it I do I really feel so good but here's I wasn't gonna say that I agree with that sentiment we're both like we love being love bombed yes I do agree that it feels good but the other problem with love bombing is I have really high self-esteem like I I just good for you first of all thank you but I just really that's the beauty of being 50 is like it's like you don't give a fuck anymore you don't and I don't know what that is about aging but you're just kind of like love me or hate me this is like who I am Bye, bitch. Do not care. Yes. Yes. And when they're obsessed with you, you're like, yeah, I get it. That's exactly right. So when somebody love bombs you, you're like, well, I'm glad you see it too. Great. Yeah. And so there's a lot of judgment from people who are not 50 who are like, how could you not see it? And so when I describe this and I'm like, this man was like a God in his physical looks. Yeah, I'm not that same level, but also I bring other things to balance it out, right? Like I'm funny and I'm well-traveled and I understand world religions. And so I just feel like, yeah, it kind of balances it out. if you ever wake up sweaty or freezing or just uncomfortable for me it's usually freezing but then i don't know sometimes i get sweaty it's weird but the temperature in your bedroom can make or break your sleep which is why i switched to miracle made sheets they're inspired by nasa technology and they use silver infused temperature regulating fabric to help you sleep perfectly all night long whether you're a hot sleeper or a cold sleeper it doesn't matter you'll be in this perfect comfort zone and they have a ton of colors, which is important to me. They even stay cleaner longer. 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So I go home and Emil is like fucking consistent on the communication. Like he doesn't ever want to text. He always wants to video chat because, you know, I'm just so beautiful. And we video chat like three to four times a day. he's always asking about me and my son and work and even with the 11 hour time difference he's staying up late to make sure that he talks to me he's getting up early like he's just great he's great wow so he is telling me how excited he is to see me soon and what kind of activities are we going to do in my hometown? And do I want to go to Italy in the spring? And oh, yeah, like, that's my love language. Let's travel together. Like, that's amazing. So it's great. I feel really good about all this. And then this is how I crack the case. This is so crazy. He got a cold. He got a cold and he stopped communicating consistently. And it annoyed me. I was like so because he got a cold yeah he stopped like he missed a couple of video chats and I was like hey what's going on are you busy and he was in the countryside visiting his parents and I was like well you're not busy with work like he had been showing me the countryside and how relaxed he was and he was doing that to visit his parents because he was going to be on this long road trip in the U S and so we wanted to spend time with them before he came out. And I was like, Oh, that's so great. You're so connected with your family. And then he just kind of dropped off. I mean, not ghosting me, but like it, the communication fell apart by like at least half and it annoyed me. I was like, listen, if you're lost interest in me, that's fine. But we still got to stay tethered because of this business deal. Had you wired the remaining? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And he says, babe, what are you talking about? And I said, I just noticed you're pulling back and you're not really asking me about my days anymore. And I don't love that. So if you've lost interest, that's fine. I'm not for everybody, but we're going to stay tethered because guys owe me $45,000. So stay in touch. And he was like, babe, what, like, why are you being insecure? everything's fine. I was like, again, your communication style is not good. And he goes, I have a cold. And he did. He had a cold. You could hear it. But I was like, you can still text. Yeah. You can send me some dumb reel. I mean. You could still say, hey, I'm having dinner with my parents tonight and I'm not going to be on my phone as much. Totally. Not that hard. Totally. and there was just no accountability and I really did not love it and I got annoyed and I told him and he sent the uncle to call me so I get this I've never video chatted with the uncle before he calls me on video chat and he's like why are you upset with Emil and I said first of all this is none of your fucking business I'm upset with him because we're not talking as much but again, I'm going to figure that out with him. Why am I talking to you? And he says, don't talk to me like that, Lena. And I said, like, why are you calling me? This isn't about you. You're not in our relationship. And he says, well, I just want you to know I've talked with him too. And he really does have a cold. And I said, that was not in dispute. I know he has a cold. I know. I'm getting off the phone now. This is crazy. And that's when I knew something was real fucked up. They were just overselling it. Yeah. Also, yeah, nobody mentioned doubting the cold. Right. So when they say like, no, he really has a cold. Now I'm like, okay, I didn't think that, but now I think maybe he doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Now my spidey senses are like, why do you guys care so much that I'm losing interest in this relationship. You're just overcompensating that I'm irritated. So at this point, the rugs have arrived and I'm starting to doubt. I know it's a small thing, but I'm like, as a therapist, I'm just doubting all of this now. Why are you so strange about the cold? So I tear into the rugs and I'm expecting to find these extremely expensive silk rugs and these rugs look like they're from ikea and they smell yeah yeah and they smell like cigarette smoke no and then i open up the paperwork that i filled out in the store you know right before my flight when it was all fast and i never opened it never had a reason to okay so i signed this quick piece of paper like you know saying i'm gonna fire this money later and he folds it up puts it in an envelope i never opened it again okay i open up that piece of paper there's no store name on the paper like it's it's it's like blank letterhead like not a real business letterhead just fake stationary kind of thing and i'm like oh my gosh what what the fuck is this i go to the label for the rugs there's no business name on it i'm like what so what's on it just a address just an address i reverse google map the address I cannot find a business name. I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's not on Google Maps. This business doesn't exist. Then I remember I bought a sweater from a storefront about eight stores up from the shop earlier in the week. Like, thank God I bought this sweater. And true Turkish hospitality. We were talking for like an hour having tea because he's a real person with good intentions and we became Instagram friends And so I DM him and I said Hey how it going Love my sweater Also can you tell me the name of the store It like you know eight stores down And I described what it looked like And he wrote me back almost instantly. And he said, please tell me you didn't shop there. No, they're known scam artists. They're known hustlers. No, no, no, no. Didn't I tell you not to go there? And I said, oh no you didn't and he's like I'm so sorry did you buy anything and I was like a pashmina I just couldn't tell him the rest yeah but but okay so when you see him say wait please tell me you didn't go there did you know immediately or were you still like no this is fine doubting it I thought he was gonna say something like oh the gold there is like not real gold it's like gold plated. I didn't know what he was going to say. I thought he'd say something like that. You know, I mean, he doesn't know about this tariff thing. I thought he was going to say something like that. So I just said, oh, okay. Yeah, no, I mean, I just bought a scarf, but thanks. Can you tell me the name of the store, please? And he tells me the name and I go, cool. Yeah. Hope you're doing well. I'll talk to you later. And then I go to Google to look up the name. And the only thing that exists, right? Because they don't have a website. They're not real. The only thing that exists is a Facebook group that one of the victims put together that says, if you've been scammed, here's the group of victims. And we have a lawyer in the country fighting for our rights. And there's a whole group of us. And get in touch with me immediately. So now what goes through your head then? Oh, I'm going to be sick. I can't believe I just fucked myself. How could I be so stupid? No. I mean, I just immediately start crying. I think that like, yeah, there's a part of you that's just like, of course I couldn't pull in such a good looking guy. Oh, girl, I know that feeling. Oh, man. It's so confusing. It's so confusing. And then, yeah, you just feel like you brought this on yourself. Like, I just immediately was like, I did this to myself. I willingly gave the money because I'm greedy and I wanted to make 10 grand. And I just fucked myself. Not they did this to me. They're horrible people. And that's the worst part of shame. So I spent the next week in such a dark place. Wow. I, I love that you guys do this podcast to help people not live there. Like what a service. It's because of you guys. So I immediately contact the administrator of this group because it's a private group and she's put out her email and her phone and I text her. I Facebook messenger. I called her. I emailed her. I sent a carrier pigeon. She did not respond to me. And I was like, what the fuck, bitch? Like, I'm out here dying. And then the next day, I did it all again. I sent a smoke signal. I texted her. I mean, nothing. Third day, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I need to talk about this. I can't tell anybody but her. And she's not getting back to me? What cunt? I was livid. I was like you're asking for victims to come forward and you're not responding and was the Facebook group private like could you get into it without her responding and approving you I could not so I couldn't reach any other victims yeah I needed her and her only and I was just like this is cruel this is so cruel to not get back to me and it says contact me 24 7 I'm like bitch I'm doing that. I am. And her area code is in my state, the state I live in. So I'm like, there's not a time difference. How dare you? And so it was the third day and I haven't drank in years. I just decided for mental health and brain health, I'm just not going to drink anymore. I fucking got back into that whiskey. And so like, I'm not eating, I'm not sleeping. I'm drinking whiskey again I was like so crashing out and she's not getting back to me on the fourth day of not and I'm still every day repeating all the texting calling Facebook messenger email fourth day I've decided they've probably killed her I mean I know that sounds crazy but like when you're not sleeping no that'd be me too yeah it doesn't sound crazy to me at all you don't know the extent of this yeah i've decided like that i don't know when the spaceboat group got updated if it's been like i've decided they've probably killed her i have probably stepped in with the turkish mafia they have killed her there's no other explanation of why she's not getting back to me i'm so fucked i i should just be glad that i got out of that office alive and made my flight I'll just leave it there. Right. So the fifth day Lily gets back to me. She finally called. Is that her fake name? Yeah. Okay, great. Lily finally calls me back and I am like, I'm like a little tipsy when she calls. So I'm like, where have you been? What, what the fuck? And she says an answer in my wildest dreams. I could have never imagined. And you know, I'm a mental health therapist 29 years. I've heard it all. This bitch says, I'm so sorry. I'm just getting now back to you. I've been in Antarctica and the Wi-Fi is spotty. Are you fucking? Are you fucking? At that point, I'm like, everyone's scamming everyone. Nothing is real. I know. I know. Was she really in Antarctica? Am I in a, am I in the Truman Show? What's happening? I'm like, you better FaceTime me with a penguin now or I don't believe a word. A hundred percent. Be in an igloo with your goose down parka and a snow boots and a penguin. I need proof. She sent me a picture because I was losing my mind. I was like, of all the scenarios, you being on the seventh continent never crossed my goddamn mind, Lily. What the fuck? I'm obsessed that like in this state, I know it's probably the worst state of your life, but you still were calling as if you guys were like friends already. Right. even in like if you called me and I was in her shoes I would still love you immediately oh thank you you were like where the fuck were you I did I well I get it it's also the whiskey talking and then she's she's very gregarious she's like I really don't have a lot of time to talk the wi-fi is super spotty and I'm like apparently Lily apparently and I was like are we involved in the same scam she's like yeah the tariff scam and I was like oh my god she goes yeah sorry I hope you didn't sleep with them. I'm like, Oh my God, Lily, that's not the most important thing right now. And she's like, she's like, yeah, you're never going to see your money again. It's been two years for me. And I, we have a lawyer and I'm so sorry this happened to you. You sound so nice. We'll have to get together for lunch since we're in the same state. No big deal. Yeah. And she goes, anyway, I'm really sorry. I'm praying for you. Got to go see these emperor penguins. Bye. And I was like oh my god I'm just here like she could only talk for like three minutes and then I was left with my whiskey bottle again I was like I what like what just happened truly did she give you the lawyer's info or anything she said she would email it to me yeah so when she gets back she did later yeah so I don't even know what I would do it was wild it it helped me but only minimally yeah i mean are you hearing from them at all the uncle and emil so just a little bit i mean he's just like babe like don't be mad i have a cold you know so like and and here's the thing i decided that i wasn't going to show my cards one in case i was wrong and two in case i was right I didn't I didn't have a strategy yet. Yeah. You know, what's my strategy just to go ballistic? Like just crash out and be an angry woman. If they're scam artists, they don't give a shit. They don't give a crap. Yeah. I'll just move on to the next. They don't care. Right. So now that it's confirmed, I just like, yeah, I was in a weird place and I just got up. I was like, I have to go to work every day. That's my goal to go to work every day, have some grounding. So I went to work every day, tried not to drink too much. I wasn't sleeping. And on her Facebook page, once she approved my joining the group, I was able to see that they have changed their name like once every two years. As soon as they get in too much heat, they change the name of the business. Oh. So it's gone through many evolutions. That's why they're never on the internet. And so she's got all kinds of pictures of various players. Some I recognize from the store, you know, the other nephews that were married, et cetera. So it all just came crashing down. Like, wow, this is, this really happened to me. So I mentioned this to Emil and he's like, oh, Lily, she's just a disgruntled customer. We tried to give her a refund and exchange her rugs and she's just still salty about it. And we had to change our name because she got online and just ruined our reputation. Okay. So why did you have to change it like four times though? We haven't changed our name four times. It's just been the one time after she got heated and went online and attacked us so much. so you know that was a dead end because he didn't want to discuss it and then uncle started calling me and saying it sounds like you want to discuss lily okay again not with you not with you like this is between emilia and i y'all gotta we're not in a throttle get the fuck out so he was like lina you are really making things difficult for when we get there and we just want to do business and make money and go out to dinner and be like family and you're really being disrespectful so he's kind of pushing that culture that's important to me you're questioning him yeah how dare you and i got guilt on you i say well i don't do business with mobsters what and now he's pissed right because again we're always on video chat told him what he does yeah now we're on video chat and he's like don't you dare talk to me like that and i'm like oh i go and internally i'm like oh my god i found the chink in the armor right you did i go well wait a minute am i am i wrong or maybe you'd prefer if i called you a pimp because you just you pimp out your nephew all the time but let me tell you he's got to work on his a game because that really felt like gay sex to me and now he's just come undone he's come undone don't you dare and I was like listen you tell me where I'm wrong okay you want to talk let's talk where am I wrong getting some real serious gay vibes off him so definitely need to work on your a-game I mean I can I can talk to you about it or I can talk to a meal about it, but yeah. The scam has a crap. Oh yeah. And so, you know, with a narcissist, image is everything. A hundred percent. Yep. And he is like taking this bait. He's like, don't you dare. But to this day, I'm like, why did you even talk to me? Like, you've got my money. You should have just hung up on me and blocked me and whatever. but like i i think that i guess maybe they just want to keep a good reputation so they can find more victims i don't know but maybe there was more to the scam once they keep they could there's a way to keep it going maybe yeah maybe they can get more out of you i don't know i don't know but so emil starts calling me and he's like you're really disrespecting uncle and i want to be with you and we're coming right after christmas and you're going to ruin everything and i was like you know your gay sex kind of ruined everything. Like I'm just going hard on him. Are you, are you at this point? Like, I know I'm not getting this money back and that's why I can kind of, Oh yeah. Yeah. Whatever the fuck. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, I just, I just decided like if there's a chance I'm going to just go hard on it because the depression has lifted, you know, I just spent seven days in the most dark, shameful, atrocious place ever and now it's Scorpio time I'm going full fucking throttle on your ass it's black it's it's revenge it's fuck around and find out find out so I mean like it got weird I remember thinking every time I talked to him on video chat I'm gonna make sure I'm wearing black I'm going to make sure I'm in this persona. You know, I'm going to go hard on his ass. So I wouldn't answer the phone unless I was ready, unless I was like camera ready, makeup, dark lipstick, black clothes. There was no part of me that was just going to be like, Emile, how could you do this? I was just like, it was, I was mad all the time. And if I wasn't in that headspace, I just wouldn't answer the phone. So I was pissed. I didn't think there was a chance I was going to get my money back because no one ever does. But I was going to let him know. And I didn't have a strategy yet, but I was letting him know, one, I'm divinely protected. And so when you cross someone like me, who does a lot of good in this world, there's going to be consequences. and I told him I said I don't know if it'll be today or five years from now but you're gonna get yours you are fucked you are so fucked because I'm divinely protected and again ladies I have no idea what I was saying like what does that look like if he had asked me I'd say je ne sais quoi but no but I love that you said that like put a little bit of fear in him like you'll see you'll get yours mother effer you'll get yours so this is what happened about a week later and and again i'm not i'm not i'm not sleeping i'm not eating i'm still hitting that whiskey more than i'd like to admit i have no strategy and then one day i'm getting ready for work and i put on some jewelry I got from Greece and it's the evil eye jewelry y'all see yes and I remember Turks are just as superstitious as Greeks and it just fucking popped into my head let me call my homies out in North Africa who I I love North Africa I visit all the time and there's an area in North Africa that has a ugly superstition, ugly stereotype about black magic. Okay. And the dark arts and witchcraft. And I did a group chat and I called up many of my homies out there and I said, listen, I hate to ask this. It's so, it's so ugly. And you know, I don't believe in any of it because it's the, it's the one country I have visited more than any in any of my life. I go all the time. I love it so much. And I said, would you guys be willing to help a girl out to get some of her money. I've been deeply wronged. And just send a couple of text messages via WhatsApp that you are shaman working in the dark arts and you would like to see me get my money returned. And they were like, hell yeah, we would. So I provided email's number and I said, and if you want to make me laugh, maybe just send me a screenshot of some of these. and ladies when i tell you some of them were unhinged no oh my god they were just going hard and they were like the thing is with black magic is it does not affect you directly it affects the people you love so when your mama gets a chronic cough that's a black magic that's us that's us I mean did did your did the guys respond so he had blocked me for a few days because every time we talked I would just be angrier a bitch yeah a total bitch and he didn't know how to deal with me and he was sending uncle to deal with me and I would block uncle like I'm not you know and so he's then when he got these messages he unblocked me and called me and he was like Lena what are you doing? And I was like, I was like, black magic. I go, I go, Emil, what are you talking about? Like, I'm just sipping my coffee. And he's like, who are these guys from North Africa? And I just acted like I had no idea. And he goes, I'm getting all these messages from North Africa about witchcraft. Oh my, sounds awful. He read them off and he's like, and who is this one guy? and he read his name and I said oh oh you got a message from him oh no that is not good hey oh I said that's a shaman who lives up in the upper oh mountainous region and he oh my that sounds terrible let's just say we're praying for you and your family so now he's on the phone with me asking for an explanation. What are you doing? I'm so upset. How could you know? I said, I have not done any of this. This is all this is all you're doing. And he goes, what do you want? And I go, I want my money, bitch. Fucking money back. And he goes, all I can get you is half right now. And I said, okay, you little cunt, send half. Oh, damn. So you're my hero. A hundred percent. So I said, when are you going to send it? Because I don't know what these boys are up to. Like they're in North Africa and they're hard to reach. They're in the mountains. You know, I can't, it's not like they're on wifi all the time. So send it immediately. And I'll do my best to tell them to stop cooking up their goddamn rituals. But like, you got to send it pronto. And he sent it in two days. He sent half the money back in two days. Wow. I did not expect you to get a penny back. I know. I know. I know. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What? Okay. So I was super happy. Finally had sleep for like the first time in three weeks. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. But that was not going to be enough for me. No, no. So after a couple of days later, after my victory, hi, we're all off I was like no no no no I'm gonna she's out for blood yes I was so they still owe you a lot of a lot of money if this is working why not try again yeah so then I was like okay what what else do I have again it comes back to image so witchcraft we're done with that I'm gonna go back to image. So I Google mapped the whole neighborhood of where their shop is. And I did all the restaurants, cafes, hotels, and shops. And I wrote terrible Google reviews of everything. Like I would write like cute restaurant, but the store called this nearby is full of mobsters, scam artists, and gay men. And not that there's anything wrong with being gay. I'm just saying, But you knew that would make them. It would upset them terribly. Because they're a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I would give it like one star and then write this horrific review. So it made everyone mad at them. Yes. Yes. And then. It turned their community against them. 100%. And then I unblocked him and sent them the links to every review I wrote. Hoping that like, yeah, they would walk over and be like, what the fuck, Emil? Yeah. Who is this bitch in America who's so mad at you? Yeah. so I did that and he didn't really respond he wasn't like oh Alina make it stop and then I surprisingly his name wasn't taken from Instagram so I did an Instagram page of like hi I'm Emil and I like to fuck over people for romance scams and financial ones and that got a little bit of traction, but not a lot, you know, sent him that link. He hated that. Oh my gosh. He hated that. Out for blood this one. And then it occurred to me, I could set up a grinder profile for him. No. Are kidding me. Yeah. You guys, this next part, I just want you to listen to with an open heart and an open mind. We want to allow everyone a space to share their stories ethically, which we feel means in their own words and exactly what happened with the facts. And some of you guys are not going to like this next part. We don't particularly condone this next part. However, we do not judge Lena for her actions in her story. She did what she had to do, but it does involve gay men. And we feel like involving gay people in something like this is so dangerous in the the United States, like 39 states, gay panic is still a defense for murder. For murder. Turkey, like it worked out okay in this scenario. So it'll be okay. But in for you, for every, we don't want to give anybody ideas. Okay. Back to Lena. You can buy an app that will change your VPN to be in the city of your choice. So I made it look like I was him and I lived there and I wasn't sleeping much anyway. So why not women in STEM hashtag women in STEM? There you go. So, you know, I had enough pictures and then it turns out Grindr, they like to see dick pics. So I had to find a bunch of dick pics. It was super strange. Your Google algorithm is like, I know, I know. Really gross. So I set up a nice little album and Grindr has a really strange feature called ready now where you don't have to do any texting. So yeah, you're just ready now. Wait, oh my gosh. Are you about to like send random men to the rug? Sure did. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So tell us what happened. So you set it up so that they, you just said, come on over big boy. And they came. And the, the nice thing is the store is three levels so i told everybody my apartment was on the top level and just come downstairs ask for email and we'd go up to my apartment and fuck oh my god oh my god so do you know what happened do you ever get word i don't he just told me to stop but i don't you he can pay you to stop he can send that damn money yeah so what happened so what happened did you get your money Okay. So there's a little bit more. Okay. So he was like calling me like, and I was like, Hey, you know, I get my money. And he was like, but I love this exploration for you. I think that's really, yeah. And he just kept blaming his boss. He's like, I can't get it. You know, half is plenty. I was like, this will never end. I'll never let this go. I'll never. And I told him, I said, you know what? You got to know something. You got to know something about me, man. you fuck with my heart that's the real issue here it's not about the money I'll make the money back you fucked with my heart it's on I'm never gonna let this go and he was like we we met for one day Lena one day and I go doesn't matter you fucked with my feelings and you got a wrong one you have to die yeah you know like it's over like I'm it's not about the money so yeah he was super mad about grinder. And then before I got off the phone, I was like, Hey, Hey, go brush your teeth. And he's like, why? And I go, cause I got a big old bear coming for you in 20 minutes and he likes to be sub. So get fucking ready. And I hung up, you know, I was just mad all the time. Crazy. Oh my God. I love this for us. You are so creative. You are, you think outside the box. I love it. Like they never in their wildest dreams did they expect someone would do all this. And I love it. I mean, they're getting what they deserve and more. Please continue. So I was racking my brain from another angle and I realized I hadn't pursued TikTok. I totally forgot about TikTok. I know. Cause I'm not on TikTok. It's like when you're 50, you're like, I don't want to learn TikTok. It's another fucking thing I got to learn. Yeah, 100%. So I reached out to my 20 year old and he's like, I don't know how to do TikTok. And I was like, damn it. So I taught myself TikTok and praise be to the TikTok community. Oh my God. It's like wildfire. So I set up a cute little profile. I was like a 50 year old solo international traveler. Her luck ran out when she meets Emil in Turkey on her 50th birthday. And people were like, this story is so good. And so I uploaded all the pictures and people just I said I don need donations baby I just need you to like share repost make it happen Well God himself gave me the best gift because on the third day of my TikTok profile being open, Emile's cousin sees the profile and must have just not been paying attention because he reposted it to his grid. No! Yes. And I woke, I woke up to this notification and I was like, Oh my God, what a gift. What a gift. I screenshot that bitch and I sent him a DM that says, Hey, thanks for the support. Are you a cunt too? And within 12 minutes, he had taken his whole profile down. But because the algorithm is algorithm, it sends me the whole gang. yeah and all their profiles are public so i'm taking receipts i'm taking receipts left right center i got the whole gang now and after i've taken all the screenshots i'm sending messages under all their fucking pictures that are just horrible i mean diabolical like some of them have their children in their laps and i'm like oh the next generation of tons like oh just i know i know i'm not proud hey they did awful things to you but i need my goddamn money i'm not normally this person but you fucked up and they're not gonna want those things on their profiles and if that's the way to stop it that's the way to stop it i did it all all at once and so i just love the idea of like they're all sitting around the store and their phones are just popping because they all go black at once. They all just go, oh, fuck, Lena's at it again. They all go black on their profiles, except for the kingpin, the big daddy that I never met. But I know from the Facebook group that Lily put together that that's the kingpin. So when I take all my receipts and I put them together in my TikTok I tag the kingpin and all of them so he knows what's up because because Emile's been saying oh big daddy won't let me you know release the funds we're gonna do it now bitch you're gonna do it now and that's what happened he released it that's what happened tell tell me tell me how like did it just appear in your account? Did he write you? What happened? Oh God, no. So Emil calls me and he's like, he's like, Lena, Lena, make it stop. I want the grinder dates to stop. He goes, I want you to scrub the internet and then I'm going to give you the rest of your money. And I go, bitch, no, you're going to give me my money. Then I'm going to scrub the internet. And then we'll talk about it. Yes. And he goes, well, how did you not calling the shots anymore? He's like acting like a victim. He's like, well, how do I know you're going to be? And I go, because I've never lied. you're the liar I've never lied and he's like okay and I go so just send the money and then I scrub the internet real easy bro and this is like this is a bargain for you and your homies to get your oh yeah hell yeah so if you don't see that then you really are a dumb businessman so yeah we're done and I said p.s. this offer is only good for 72 hours so get it done right now This bitch, good for you. This is incredible. So he sends the money, okay? And then he's like, you promise? And I'm like, yeah, I promise. Again, I don't lie. You're the liar. So the money gets wired. And he calls me the day it gets wired. And he's like, why haven't you scrubbed the internet? And I said, because it says pending, okay? that shit is not through till it's through it says pending and i show him my bank account pending okay when it's through i will scrub the internet so he calls the next day and he goes well my bank says it's gone all the way through and i said okay my bank says it's gone all the way through too and he goes why haven't you scrubbed the internet and i said because it's christmas eve i didn't tell you that we're real busy over here in america i said i'll get it tomorrow so he calls me the next day Why haven't you scrubbed the internet, Lena? And I said, oh, I didn't tell you. It's Christmas. This is the Super Bowl of holidays. I'm sorry. I forgot to tell you. Today is Christmas. I'm going to get it tomorrow. I'm going to get it tomorrow. So the next day he calls me and he's like, why haven't you scrubbed the internet? And I said, oh my God, did I forget to tell you? It's Boxing Day. I knew you were going to say that. I knew it. I was like, if you say Boxing Day right now, you're iconic. Oh my God. my cheeks hurt y'all and then he goes lena i swear to god i said you are what are you gonna do you're gonna walk in god's light you can't swear to shit but i'm gonna get it tomorrow i'm gonna get tomorrow don't you worry he calls me the next day why i mean he like jugular veins why haven't you i said oh i didn't tell you you're a little cunt i'm never gonna scrub the internet you can go to hell and the rest of the world needs to know then I told him in Turkish may God curse your soul hung up on him blocked him and that's the end of our story ladies stop what round of applause round of applause for Lena wow you got your money back yeah I do have to ask they sent you rugs to your address were you nervous at all about the fact that they had your address. Yes. Because I'm kind of nervous. Yes. At one point when I was saying, you don't know who you're fucking with, he was like, I'll fuck with you back. Like I have people that will hurt you. I do live in a locked building and Lily told me, and I did read this in the, there's been a two year long active investigation on this gang. There are 19 legal victims. There's probably hundreds more of course if they were to come they would get busted fast they don't have their passports so they would have to hire somebody to hurt me yeah what does that do I mean that doesn't benefit them really anymore how long ago is this last Christmas this last Christmas three weeks ago yeah this is so fresh I mean Merry Christmas I'm glad you got your money back thank you. Yeah. So my birthday was October 28th. This ended on boxing day and it's what January 22nd today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, this is really raw for me. So are you comfortable sharing how you came to tell this story on our show? Yeah. Cause I, and, and how does it feel now that you've shared? it feels I mean obviously the happy ending is amazing it still feels very surreal yeah I mean I still my heart aches for people who don't have their money back I think that I think sometimes I just get very emotional thinking about them when this resolved three weeks ago I I felt so sick having to call Lillian Teller my outcome because I had such survivor's guilt and I I know as a therapist that's very irrational but it still exists and she was so amazing she was like I'm so proud of you and just I just hate that they don't have their money and I asked her for an update on the legal case and she's like it's not good we're never going to see that money because the Turkish government doesn't give a fuck they know they're they know they're mobsters they don't give a fuck they don't want this bad press because the tourism the tourism oh my god survivor's guilt is a great way to explain that because it's like you got your money back but they didn't so you almost feel bad for yeah I mean you know it's it's by god's grace and a lot of luck and some creativity but like it didn't have to go this way it's just very fortunate it's very fortunate for me but they're just as worthy to get their money back. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh man. You shared your story on TikTok and have you been able to talk to people in your own personal life about all of it? Yeah. Yeah. I have, you know, they're so funny. They're just like, yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all that you got your money back. Like you're kind of, Oh, I thought that you were going to say they weren't surprised you got yeah I was like oh no no no no no no yeah I mean like some of your other guests they experienced people who were judgmental but that's that's human nature people who will be uncomfortable with things that you share and I don't think they always mean to be unkind it's hard when you're hurting to tell people hey that's not helpful that's not what I need right now but education is really the key I would tell people simply because I needed them to repost my TikTok that was it I wasn't telling people for sympathy I was way past that I was fucking anger I just I was like hey this is what happened I have a TikTok tell your friends tell your neighbors tell your dog tell your pastor just share the fucking TikTok because when Emil was learning that there were like 45,000 views, it upset him greatly. And when I tagged his boss, that's when I got my money back. So people would be like, Oh my God, how could this happen to you? You have a master's in psychology. You're worldly. You travel alone. Okay. That is not helpful. Are you going to show the TikTok or not? Right. Yeah. Right. What are you going to do to help? Like that's it. And then they would say, Oh, of course, of course. That's not what I meant. cool. I'm glad we agree. That's not what you meant. I love how you do advocate for yourself. And it is important to hear a story like this because of how strong you are. Like hearing the way that they were able to manipulate you. They're so good at it. They're so good at it. And we can do everything right. And it doesn't always matter. It's just so hard out there. I wish there was a way for us to just be able to spot every single red flag and every single thing that comes up, but it's, it's not our fault that we don't, we're not built to. Well, you, you can't. And I love that you guys spend time doing the dissection and the red flag analysis, but sugar and salt look the same. And I think that again, as women, sugar and salt look the same. We need to spend more time on the not blaming ourselves. Lord, you know, when they're professionals at this. Yeah. Why would you? Disappointing because it's, it's one thing to not trust someone else, but to not trust yourself, then you've almost, you've done this to yourself is how it can feel. And I get that. It just sucks. Yeah. Oh my God. Can you talk about how like the difference between supporting yourself and supporting someone else? Because you're good at supporting other people. It's what you do for a living. Why is it so hard for us to do that for ourselves? That's a great question. And I spend a tremendous amount of time in my professional work, getting people to see that. And so it's so ironic that I went to this dark hole for a week because the problem with self-love and self-compassion is that we feel like we miss something. And if we had just gotten it, we wouldn't be in this predicament. Yeah. If I had just seen that one thing or whatever. And it's actually something our brain does as a survival mechanism. So some of it is biology, right? We think, well, if I just, if I had just not missed this, then I couldn't have had this problem. I won't have this problem in the future. So some of it is evolutionary psychology. But the problem is, if you ruminate on that, then you miss the opportunity to say, I'm human. And I deserve compassion. And also just thinking about it in terms of the logic, these guys are slick. They have spent decades perfecting their art. And you walk in with trust and empathy and kindness, which are all wonderful. They're ready for it. Yeah. Yeah. Those are wonderful attributes. You were curious about them and their culture and their world. Like those are great. Wonderful attributes. And they just got misdirected in the wrong way. But those qualities directed at the right person could create a lifetime of love and relationship and family. Just wrong person. But like, how could you see it when they, you know, what looks like banter is really mining for information? Yeah. I mean. And that's all we want is good banter. That's all we want is a connection and a romantic day. And that's allowed. Because the alternative going through life with your guard up is exhausting. And I don't want anybody to do that. Oh, it really is. I know that. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Right. I mean, I look back on this now and I'm like, I have such dark humor about it. I'm like, I was in a rom-com, but also was that bird like a paid actor? I mean, what the fuck was that? Was that bird a paid actor? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm just blown away. Me too. I'm so proud of you. I just went back to the dark magic. You know, I think for me, the very best part of this story is when I was telling my son, because we're very close. He's my only child. And he noticed like right away that week that I was in that dark space and I had gone back to drinking. And he was like, what's going on with you? And I told him, I was like, I just can't talk about it yet, but I will talk about it. And I was like, I just need you to know people like this are out there. And so I told him the whole story, even before I had my money back. And when this was all done and the money was back in my account, he looked at me and he said something so cool. He said, it's so dumb, but I just, it just is the best part of the story. He looked at me and he said, mom, you're a real G. You're a real G. I love this for us. You're a real G. He's a hip hop. That's a nice compliment coming from your son though. If my son said that, I'd be like, I'd feel so legit. Like, I do. I just think, like... You are. Can we... Wow. Like, he just meant... He's like, you're a total fucking G. I love this. Yeah. You're a baddie. Yeah. You got that money back. Yeah. What do you guys think? are you dying? Are you dying? She freaking nailed it. Has anyone in the history of the dating detectives gotten all of their money back? No, I haven't heard of any of them getting it. Do you remember? I mean, we always say if you give anyone money, lend money, even if you think you're buying rugs, assume you're not getting the money back, which I stand by. I always say that Never, never loan anybody money. If you're going to give somebody money, just never expect it back. You are giving it as a gift from the kindness of your heart, period. Never expect it back because you will get let down most of the time. But every now and then, just a little dark magic gets it back in your pocket. I am. She is so creative. She really is. But I love that she was like, you know what? I have nothing to lose. Like you've taken so much from me and I'm not backing down. And a lot of people are afraid to stand up for it or come back because they feel like these people are so powerful and they can do all these things. And so they're afraid of them. But she said, I don't care if I'm afraid of them or not. Like, I don't know what they'll do to me, but I'm freaking standing up for myself. And she did. And good for her for doing that. I'm so glad that it worked out the way it did. And we have a couple of things to go through. I definitely want to go through like steps that they took in their scam because there were a few very textbook moves that they made. Yeah. OK, go through those. That's great. I mean, we always, yeah, you'll probably have some that I missed for sure. We always, we know that when you listen to a story in the condensed podcast episode, it's very easy to go, that would never happen to me. And we encourage you not to say that, not to jump to that, because you really don't know what it's like until you're in it. And everyone's experience is different. And also she did show me a picture offline and the guy was pretty hot. Just saying. Just saying. But also, yes, that's, that's a good point, Hannah, that you make, because if you think about it, if you're someone who's in this situation and you're actively going through it and they, let's say they hurt your feelings or they do something wrong. And then you have a couple of days to like get over it and process. Right. And then you kind of come back down and you're like, okay, this is, and you justify it in your head or whatever. But then, then it happens again. And you, it's not in the course of a small period where it's like this podcast, you don't have time to process and get over it. Like you're just mad, mad, mad, mad, mad. And so it's easier when you're listening after to say, oh, that would have never happened to me. So, yeah. Yeah. The umbrella over the entire scam is that she was being love bombed from start to finish. Like even the uncle was like vibing with her, totally gassing her up. Then this guy was doing everything right. Like gentlemanly. He wasn't being like pushy, but he was being gentlemanly. He played into her expectation of the culture. And she was a smart traveler. You know, she knew her stuff. It's not like she is somebody that's the thing. They don't just go after. If you if you get scammed, don't think it's because you're like a dumb, weak damsel. It's like they go after smart people. Yep. So they OK, what was I going to say? The love bombing. I love that she was like, I have high self-esteem. So love bombing makes sense, which is just so funny. But it was very clear that like she would be rewarded with love bombing when she did what they wanted her to do. And it was like, it was kind of like a push and pull, I felt like, where he would like pull back with the way he'd be really friendly and be like, you're part of the family. And then as soon as it was like, oh, well, I don't know if I want to get involved in that. Suddenly they made themselves like the victim and they made it all her fault. What did he say? He was like, someone scammed us in the past. So suddenly he's the victim. Because that gives the other person, their victim, the opportunity to feel like a hero by doing it. So you're basically, they manipulated her to put her in a position where she feels like, I've got to do this because I can say, I can show them that there are good people in this world. And so it kind of changes your mindset, which is they took advantage of that. That's such a manipulation tactic that we never, that we don't even think about sometimes. And then I thought about the acronym you taught me, THOG, which stands for fear, obligation, and guilt, right? Fear, obligation, and guilt. Yep. Yep. And when someone makes you feel any of those things. I was like, okay, so she is coming off of this night where she, in her mind, he is implied that like, this could be a relationship, not necessarily a marriage, but she was like, I could see this guy continuously. We could visit each other, travel together. Like this was not a one off for her. Like she thought there could be something. And then all of that next morning was like foggy, foggy, foggy. They took her bags away. She's a They, he disappeared. She's like, where is he? There's fear. Then she feels obligated. He gaslights her into saying, you agreed to this. And then she feels guilty if she doesn't do it. It was all right there. And that's the exact way that people use fog. Anyone or all of those things is just another, it's just a manipulation tactic. And she wanted to nurture that because she's in this point in her life where she's fine on her own, but she's also like, you know, confident enough that she's like, okay, I can share this with someone. And so that sucks that she got manipulated when she thought she was doing so well. You know what I mean? Like, it just sucks. It sucks. And then after the fact, I'm so grateful that she talked about being a mental health professional, still going through such a dark period afterwards. It's so real. And also just the idea that she immediately took the blame. I love that we talked about how women always just take the blame. Like we always are just like, Oh my God, I'm the problem. Yeah. Because that's so easy to, we're such people pleasers. First of all, most of us as humans are right. And then you want to be a nurturer and you want to do the right thing. And you want to give into this idea that like you could be helping them by showing them that, you know, it sucks. They got scammed, but now you want to make it right. And you can be that hero for them. And that's a strong position for a woman to feel like she's in. And so they manipulate that, take advantage of it. And it's just not pretty. And then the only other thing, I mean, just connecting with the other, okay, Lily in Antarctica. That was like funny. Cause it's like, what? Now there's a person in Antarctica. Like her whole story was crazy. It was wild. The Antarctica thing. I'm like, show me a penguin, a polar bear, something. And then she did. Yeah. That's, I mean, thank goodness. I feel sorry that other people did not get their money back, but I'm glad that I think she's stopping. Like, I don't know. These guys are going to have to work a lot harder to keep doing what they're doing. The businesses around them, the reviews, that was smart. Yeah. No, I think that was really smart. And although I don't necessarily condone that, you, I mean, I'm not mad at it. I can't say I'm mad at her for doing it. I just can't. Yeah. I can't say go out and do that. but also I listen, you know what I mean? Some of you want us to be the judge and the jury and we're simply not, we're just girls and we want to gab and we want to hear how you survive. And gossip saves lives. And if you manage this, 110,000%, I'm so, I might, I mean, that might be my next t-shirt. Like seriously, you need to talk to each other and you need to stand up for yourself. And she's like, I'm going on TikTok. I'm going on Instagram. If it feels good for you. Like, obviously you don't have to do that if you feel like you just want to put something in your past, but I'm so proud of her and inspired by her. Truly badass. I am too. And also just to let you guys know, and just to remind you, we want to give people a way to share their story in their own words, which to us feels ethical and it feels good. And just giving them the space to share their story, whether or not they write wrong or indifferent, it is their story. It is their space to tell it. It is not like, oh, well, you can tell your story only if we agree with it. that's not what we're doing here. So I don't, I mean, and we all know we're secretly like giggling at what she did. Like, like, you know what I mean? So, I mean, I heard a collective hell yeah from our audience as she was telling her story. As we always encourage you, if you have words of support or if you were inspired by our guest, Lena in this case, like let us know, comment publicly on whatever like forum you're listening or on social media. We're dating detectives podcast because we try to pass those messages along. Any wonderful supportive comments that you have, we definitely want to share it with our guests who so bravely and courageously share their stories because so often we hear, oh, I didn't want to share this or I feel so stupid or whatever. And so, you know, just supporting them and hearing other people say, oh my gosh, me too. That's a, that's very brave and it's very vulnerable. And you guys know how that feels. So thank you so much for always being so supportive. I love our audience so much. I really do. I'm so excited to go to Patreon and see the WTF moments you guys had. I know this episode. Yes. I love everybody talking about it. And I want I mean, if you guys have other stories of getting money back from scams somehow, like as simple as calling the bank and saying the right thing to the bank to sending your friends who do dark magic to scare them, like whatever it is, we can help each other because I hate to say it. We're all going to get scammed at some point. Like it just happens, especially with AI nowadays. Yeah. I mean, like she obviously was in person, but I think the online AI makes out of control. Everything looks so real. It's really freaky. It's really freaky. That's why I don't trust no screenshots. You could be like, well, here's a screenshot text. And I'll be like, I don't you could alter that. I don't care. I don't trust nobody. I think that's fair. We should do another. We did an episode a while ago about pig butchering the scam. We did like it came up in a story, but then we did a Patreon deep dive kind of explaining how that scam works. I wonder if we could like look into more and do another scam update. Let me know if you'd be interested in that, guys. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else, Mackenzie? I'm still blown away. Like, I'm so proud of her. Good for her. Lena, we love you. Like, I'm, I'm obsessed with what she did. And I think everybody else is too. Like, like maybe it doesn't solve the problem. Maybe it doesn't fix everything, but it, it just feels good to know that you're kind of, I don't know. I feel vindicated for something that didn't even happen to me. Like, I just feel like it's like, yes, someone stood up and that's great. And it just feels good. Karma, baby. Karma got them. And Karma's name was Luna. Anyways, thank you so much for listening. You guys, we absolutely adore you. And as always, As always, trust your femtuition. .