Concern for the Thunder? Plus, Eastern Conference Power Rankings!

Coming up after this on the Zacklow show, it's Monday. We got a lot to talk about in the NBA. Oh my God. The Eastern Conference. Where do we even begin? Philly's on fire. They just bolt race the mix. The mix of walls, three in a row. The calves are they back? Are they not back? Are they kind of back? The magic right when you start to get optimistic. Jalen Suggs gets hurt again. The Boston freaking Celtics, gap year Celtics, boy, was I wrong about them? Have the number one point differential in the Eastern Conference without Jason Tatum? Should they be number one on our Eastern Conference power rankings? Fred Casemney athletic is here. We're going to go 15-1 Eastern Conference power rankings based on who can actually make the NBA final. So spoiler like Washington, Indiana did not do very well. I legitimately you could order the top five or six in almost any way you wanted. Maybe not almost any way, but it was it was dicey up there. Who should make a trade? Who's going to make a trade? We talk about all of that stuff. Plus a little bit at the beginning about the thunder. Thunder lost to the suns. There's six and five in their last 11 games. Three of those losses are to the spurs, but other little losses are popping up here in there. What's going on in the West? Who's going to get the two seed? Wembe's her shingoo in turn to Zankel. Yolk is hurt. The nuggets of lost two in the road. It's kind of a chaotic time in the NBA, but particularly the East. Fred Casemney's here to discuss all that with us. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. It's Monday. The thunder lost. The East is a mess. Fred Katz. My buddy is here. Fred, how you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I don't have my own podcast apparel like you do and that fantastic hoodie, but I'm starting to think maybe I should literally one of a kind, Fred, the demand for this merchandise was so great that my buddy Mark made one of them and gave it to me for free. So he made zero dollars. Shout out Mark on his. That's a good friend. That's a good friend. Or maybe it's a friend who's mocking you in your case. I don't know. My friends gave me a podcast. I up sweatshirt with my podcast on it. I would probably take I would probably take offense to it. You're mocking my podcast. It's very comfortable and he's a big fan. Okay. We are going to do something we did at the very beginning of the season, which is power ranked the Eastern Conference. And boy, oh boy, is it complete chaos all over the place? The Celtics now have the best point differential in the East by a lot. The Knicks, my preseason pick to make the finals have lost three in a row. Caviar's injuries back to backs on all three, but they look, they look, I mean, they've never been invulnerable. This is the someone has to win conference. So we're going to power rank it from 15 all the way up to one. The Sixers. Okay. Okay, Philly. The heat of one of like five of six or something. They look great. It's complete chaos. I texted like 20 coaches in front office people. Give me your top five in the East. Just randomly off the top of your head. Most people forfeited the entire assignment. They're like, I don't even want to do it. It's too crazy. Someone has to win. But oh my gosh. In the Western Conference, Fred Katz speaking of the East being open, I'm not saying the West is open. I'm just saying Phoenix beat the Thunder last night. Thunder are six and five in their last 11 games. Three of those losses are to disperse. But the vulnerability is spreading. Minnesota beat them. Phoenix beat them. Booker makes a big three last seconds of the game. In that 11 game stretch, if you want to go through the numbers, it's the offense that has really been the issue for the Thunder. They are 20th in points per possession over those games. They have fallen to dead last in offensive rebounding. Their free throw rate is down. And their half court offense, which is number two for the season, according to cleaning glasses. 14th in that stretch. Now have they had injuries. Yes. Hardest time is hurt right now. And he is their offensive rebounding for better or worse. AJ Mitchell, Mitchell missed two of the spurs games. And they just constantly have guys in out of lineup. But you know, they've generally been fairly healthy. And even their wins, they blew out the Blazers who are, okay, beat the zombie warriors who sat everybody on the national TV game. Like it was Greg Popovich in 2012. And the sixers, they blew they blew them out without M.B. But it was like a little rickety for a bit in that game. What's happening here, Fred Katz? Well, number one, I think the shooting has just fallen off to an incredible degree. And that's something that maybe we could have seen coming at the beginning of the year, even when they were winning a ton, they were not shooting great from three for like the first month or so. And then leading into that loss to the spurs in the in season tournament, when they were 24 and one or whatever they were for the previous month, they had been shooting 43% from three. Just an outrageous number. I mean, everyone was hitting ridiculous numbers. And I think what we're seeing right now is just a little bit of three point regression over this 11 game stretch where there's six and five. I want to say they're around 34 percent from deep point four percent, 33% from deep. So even even worse in that, that just like tends to come down like you look at over this stretch, like a guy like Aaron Wiggins, he's not hitting his three. He's Caruso isn't hitting his three. So K. K. Somalis is somebody we haven't really no one's focused on the fact that K. Somalis is not having necessarily it's not he's having a bad year. He's an unbelievable defender and fits into everything they do so well, but he's not necessarily having like a leap sort of year that maybe you could have expected to see from a young player of his caliber. He's I think he's been a little down and his shot has not been nearly as good this year. And it's just kind of something I've I've been monitoring all year. Ludoort is a guy who's kind of not I don't think played at the level that he was at the last couple of years. So far this year, and look, this is why it's really, really hard to go 73 and 9. This is why you and a team that's just insanely good is going to have some stretches where it goes six and five. I think if I'm the thunder, I probably feel pretty happy. This is happening now, you know, the trade deadline is a month from today. And they've got time to figure out, okay, well, maybe we do need another offensive rebounder here or somebody who can who can maybe or maybe even a strategic shift where they crash a little bit more or a little bit differently or a little bit more aggressively because they're not a very aggressive crashing team. And compared to other, you know, top teams around the league, maybe maybe they they could use another, you know, athletic guard who could help them against San Antonio, who obviously is a tough matchup for them because they're three and oh against against the thunder this year. I think I think they'll figure it out. I think every great team even has a stretch where they go six and five. It's just so jarring because they started 24 and one. And again, half their losses are to one team. They're the only team that doesn't turn the ball over against the thunder. The spurs are the still forcing heaps of turnovers against everybody else. And I think the spurs sort of the the roster log jam that everyone was not me, but concerned about the the overload of guards ball handlers has actually been very helpful against the thunder like the more like actual proven point guard type players you have on the floor level ball handlers, the better. Yeah, look, the thunder of 36. They're going to have home court. There's still four games ahead of the spurs. Wemby's injured, Devin Fissell's injured. No one looks like they're going to threaten them for the number one seed in the Western conference. The nuggets could have the nuggets are now missing Yokehch. They've lost their last two games without him in dispiriting fashion. So I was shouldn't say that the Cleveland game was a relicking one for those a good showing and then Brooklyn they got kind of rolled yesterday. They are 21 and one the thunder are against sub 500 teams and a relatively mortal nine and five against 500 and over teams having played the easiest schedule in the league so far. The nine and five number I'm just going to I'm just going to keep looking at because I like all of these teams like the nuggets absolutely think they can win the championship. The rockets are bullies. They're not afraid. The lakers, although they should be afraid of the thunder never really have been. I don't really think they're in this conversation. Frankly, the wolves of boys played the thunder tough and the spurs obviously have done what they've done. It ain't going to be a cake walk out of the West for them. Also should be noted this we're now kind of in the dog days of the season. Like the cup is over. We're halfway through the season. People can kind of see all star coming. Like this is a time when somewhat strange stuff can happen. I want to also give. By the way, Denver. Denver after that Phoenix win last night. That's a big win for Phoenix because their schedule is about to get a lot harder and notching a win against Oklahoma City is a huge sort of buffer against if any slumps come. Denver now only two games up on Phoenix for the seventh spot. Absolutely. Ariska being in the play and range when Yokech comes back. I just want to give Phoenix a shout out. I just I took the under on them. I think it was 34 and a half. They're 21 and 14. Everyone has lauded them for being the toughest hardest playing team in the league. They deserve all the the flowers for that. They are just tough as all hell. I just can't believe that they've survived offensively. Given that what my concern preseason was who's handling the ball when Devon Booker is off the floor? Who's helping him handle the ball when he is on the floor? You look at some of their backup lineups when Booker is off the floor. It's like I can't believe that they're surviving. But Gillespie has been tremendous. Jordan Goodwin who is an offensive rebound machine hit eight threes last night. He's been great. Ossoi Gidaro as their backup five is really stabilized their bench and played a lot in close games for them. A lot of times Booker's Booker. They've just dug out enough points for their defense and their toughness to win. And they're going to derp in the hunt for a top six seed. I think the schedule will turn on them a little bit and then we'll pass them. But the teams above them better play well for at Cats because they're pretty damn good. I was very wrong about the sons. I can't believe how good they are. They're really good on the margins. Like they're really good on the offensive boards. I mentioned like crashing strategies before. They have one of the most interesting crashing strategies in the league in terms just how often they send guys to the glass and they have a lot of guys who are really good at it. They force turnovers. Like they're good on the margins in that sense. Also, can I just like Dylan Brooks has been awesome. Friends. I'm not going to make the off start team. Friends also. I'll tell you what last last year Kevin Durant on shots, passes, turnovers, fouls out of his isolations. The Phoenix Suns average like 120 something points for a hundred possessions. Which seems unbelievable. Not only is it unbelievable. Second spectrum has been tracking that stats since 2013. That was the highest number for like a high volume season. I think that's 500 plus isolations in a season. That was the highest number for a high volume season since second spectrum started tracking it in 2013. So their offense turned into when Durant was there and they were they're pretty okay when Durant was there last season. That was when he wasn't there that they were terrible. They're often turned into give the ball to Kevin Durant and just make something happen. And with Durant gone, it's like especially in crunch time. That's what they did. And with the grand gone, you're thinking, okay, what the heck is going to happen, a special the end of shot clocks. You know, Dylan Brooks has been like the sixth most efficient isolation player in the NBA this year. Made a big step back three last night against the thunder too. I think put the Suns up three. I can't remember what the score was, but it was a huge shot. He's shooting the hell out of it from mid range too. Like he's he's been such a good scorer this year. And I think it's also been so important for there. Just like rugged defensive mentality, getting them out into transition. Really good point of attack, which helps them force a lot of those turnovers. They're there. I bookers been really good all year. I mean, I think bookers and all star this year. They've they've been they've been really good. Also, yeah, Colin Glespie. How about it? One of the most improved players in the NBA. It's just going to be really interesting to look at the West standings in three weeks because the Warriors, you know, they kicked that game against the thunder. And then they did their job, which is when the next game on the back to back against Utah despite dream on green getting ejected again. They're I think five and two in their last seven, something like that with one of the games being basically a tank game, schedule tank. They they haven't given up hopes. I was with their people in Toronto last week. They haven't given up hopes of crap at cracking the top six. So they never give up hope. And they have a history of late season runs. I mentioned spurs injuries. We'll see how long when these out in Vicelle or this helps out. Shenguin's brain is ankle the other day for Houston. They really can't afford to lose him for much, but they're they're rock solid. Minnesota after Anthony Edwards walked off the court in a blowout loss to the Hawks. The second horrible loss. The wolves suffered after beating OKC. They also got rolled by Brooklyn. Minnesota's won a couple games in a row. Kind of seemed to have restored order. The ant walking off the court thing. Pistachis fin for pulling the starters. That's water under the bridge. And the Lakers, you know, look, they beat the Grizzlies two times. I'm not giving them any trophies for that, but they they they are, you know, everyone counts when you don't have Austin Reeves. Their defense is what it is. And the Warriors again are 19 and 17 three games behind Phoenix, four games behind Minnesota in six. It's just going to be I can't wait to see how those standing shake out, but the thunder at the top seems like the only certainty. The East. The cops for top of it. Where there is no certainty. Where multiple people when I asked them about the Eastern Conference are to rank the rank the top five in the East, just send shrug emojis or say to me in person, if I'm at a game, somebody's got to win. That should be the the East, the East in 2026. Somebody's got to win. Somebody's making the finals. This is why the bucks 16 and 20. Can't do anything without Yannis. Four and one since Yannis came back the least convincing four and one stretch you could possibly imagine. We'll get to them somewhere in our mutual power rankings. This is why they're like, Hey, Zach Levine, Michael Porter Jr. Jeremy Grant. Who can we get without giving up the only draft pick we can trade? By the way, Phoenix still can't, it doesn't control any of its picks till 2032. So where they go long term with Molo Watch not doing much as a rookie, not unexpected. We'll see. But this is why the buck shall I can we get one of these guys without even including a pick we want somebody we can't give up because we are, although we are 11th, we're one game out of the play in. Everyone in the play in is pretty flawed. No one at the top scares us. It's crazy. Someone's got to win Boston, the Boston Celtics, having talk about wrong. Yeah, the clip where I said to Michael Pina, who agreed with me by the way, yeah, I'm throwing him under the bus too. When I said, and they did social media people at Spotify ringer, of course, they clipped this. What I said, what is the case for optimism in Boston? Look at this front court rotation of career backups and DNP people. I don't understand the case for optimism. Couple of other coaches hit me after I said that and said, just wait, wait, we saw the clip. Just wait, they have the number one point differential in the Easter 22 and 12. Joe Mizzoula has to be the front runner for coach of the year. I can't believe it. Okay. Power ranking the East from 15 to one. Fred Katz, we're going to be very quick on the bad teams. Who'd you have in 15? Indiana. Me too. Indiana. Look, I can't even put you above the wizards when you're on a 12-game losing streak. I think it's 12 is at 13 now. Whatever it is. I stopped counting it like seven. It's very bad. And you know, I've spent a lot of this season. We know that the Pacers are in the middle of a gap year, an actual gap year. We know that they are in the best one-year tank situation since the San Antonio Spurs drafted Tim Duncan. And that they're looking at the seasonal conference like cool. We're 15 now. We get a top whatever pick in this draft. We get Halliburton back. We solve our center issues. We stop on us next year. We just came within a whisker of winning a championship. I have watched them this year, Fred, and thought, should they really be this bad? They've been... I mean, Toppins missed the whole season. Nesmith came back about a week ago. So they haven't been healthy, healthy. But they did reach a critical mass of health. Like, Mathurins been healthy. Not the last couple games. NMR has been healthy. Siakum's healthy. McConnell came back. Like, guys started calling back and they just kept on losing. It's like, should they really be this bad? And then, look, their young players just haven't, like, Jeris Walker, Bad Year, Ben Shepherd, Bad Year. Mathurin has a negative assist to turn over issue. He's not having a great year. That stuff is not super encouraging. But I do think this was sort of like, obviously, this highlights how great Halliburton is. How important having a starting caliber center who can space the floor in Miles Turner was. And just sort of how it really was a... You need all the pieces, or 90% of the pieces. And even like, a lot losing top in. And Nesmith, a bench big who's good and a solid starter who's a fifth starter. Even that is enough along with Halliburton to just sink you down to this level. But I don't know, man, I got... I've enjoyed the Johnny Furfie appearances and starts in the last couple of weeks. He's showing me something. And it's obviously just wait till next year. I have one other thing on this team. But what do you want to say on the on the Pacers? They make me very sad. I said, the last time I was on your podcast, they just make me very sad because I loved watching them so much last year. I think this is the effect of what happens when everyone has to step up one to two notches. They're not ready for. And so you look at the guys in their team and you're like, why is this so bad? Neymar is a good player. And he's a good player. And you go through their roster and you're like, Nesmith's a good player. But when they have to step up a notch or two, it just doesn't look as good. Like, Jay Huff was good for Memphis last year in the role that he was in. And now if like Jay Huff is trutting out there against in situations that he necessarily shouldn't be in, he shoots 29% from three as opposed to hitting his threes and looking a lot better defensively when you can play him in the spots that are best for him. So like, I think a lot of this comes from guys being overextended. And I say this having not really been around them much this year. They were I was around them last year. They were a ridiculously competitive locker room. So I might get called out for being wrong on this. But I think this is just human psychology. And it's true for every team no matter how competitive your locker room is. At some point, and Siakums have been great this year too. But at some point, like the bad teams know they're bad. And it just kind of seeps into everything. And you're just like, oh my goodness, this is dreadful. Just please can this season be over with. And that is just the psychology of having a team not just basketball, but anything in life. And I sense that with them. The only, it's all about next year at this point. And the only thing I'm keeping my eye on is, if you're going all in again next year, you need a better center by fathoms than what you have on the roster currently. And Isaiah Jackson is another guy who's injured and is largely disappointed this year. There's a lot of big men who are available ranging from the super high salary guys, like Anthony Davis and Demanta Subonus, probably, to lower guys, like probably Daniel Gafford and Blahblah. I don't think they're going to be swimming in the big salary deep in. And obviously, they've had the subonus experience already. Even though it's more likely to happen in the summer, I think they're going to sniff around at these centers that are available now and under contract for next year to see if they can find somebody who fits because they know they can't go into next year with this center rotation and Halliburton back. Okay, 14. I assume you had the Wiz. I had the Wiz. We're playing better lately, but there's still nine and 25 and bottom four and offense and defense. But they're playing better lately. They won. What is it? Four out of six? 611, six and five in their last 11 games. Bucks can't beat them. 6 out of 11. No, Bucks, Bucks lost to him twice. It is funny that every single time somebody loses to the Wizards. They all just after the game, they all have a recognition of what is wrong with us every single time. Dude, it's not even losing. It's not even losing. Teams who have barely beaten the Wizards have had team meetings and or explosive press conference sessions afterwards about how this isn't really just like we should be pissed off about. It's like, you won by five. Man, just go on to the next center. They did two of these things. Okay. Very encouraged by Alex. Sorry. Dude, you know, Alex. He leads the league and blocks per game only because Wembee wouldn't qualify as of now. Opponents are shooting 50.9% at the rim against him. And he challenges the most shots at the rim per game because he is basically by himself and with some help on the wing from Balakulabali, who by the way, not for nothing, defense, Janus, as well as any wing who is smaller than Janus in the entire NBA. Now, the Balakulabali is averaging 10 points a game on 38% shooting and 25% from three. That's discouraging. And that has to change for the Wizards going forward. I assume they're going to sell on all their veterans. CJ, I would sell on Kispert. I would sell on Bagley. Sell high while the while the going is good. I'm really first, they want enough games where people started looking at their draft pick that they owe the nicks. That's top 8 protecting the league. Did they need to slow down here? They'll be fine. They're not going to give up the draft pick. The last thing I will say on the Wiz, I just just give me the next whatever games we have left in the season of Tray Johnson going bananas because holy fuck can this guy shoot. I mean, quick trigger. He's got wiggle to him. He has a beautiful stroke. He's Uber confident. Shooting 41% from three on super high volume. They this he's going to be a player. They did well with that Yeah, you know, it's interesting about him is it's the beginning of the year. The shooting was impressive and it kind of caught your eye. And lately, maybe the last month or so, he's been attacking closeouts off the dribble and then making good reads off of those closeouts. So at the beginning of the year, it was kind of like, okay, I see the closeouts close. I'm just going to attack and I'm going to go lately. He's making these intuitive passes. He's he's kicking it to the corner. He's he's finding a cutter. He's making like it's not facilitating by any stretch of the imagination, but he's making these connector plays. You can see the game is slowing down for him a little bit. And that plus the shooting, I think he's in a good spot. A pub Carrington has been making shots for the last month or so. 45% on threes. Yeah, but bubs bubs been making shots and he to me as a guy who's like his value is going to be in his shot making. It's just going to be like if he makes a lot of shots, he's going to be a good player. And if he doesn't, he might be hard to to fit into your team. And with Saur, like to come back to Saur with the rim protection, it's not just that he's a rim protector. It's that Saur is also a switchable center. And there aren't very many guys. Normally you got to kind of pick and choose any shoots threes. Normally you got to pick and choose between like, all right, are we going to have a guy who's more of a rim protecting center? Are we going to have a guy who we can like switch with on the perimeter? And all of a sudden, Saur is looking like he's going to develop into a guy you can switch with who can protect the rim who shoots threes who has a vastly improved post game and face up game this year who has more room moves around the rim than I could have imagined him having a year ago at this time. And that's like the just the schematic versatility that if and when the wizards ever get good down the line, which is a long way off. But if they ever do and Saur is there like the schematic versatility, he's going to allow them not just not just the versatility of like he'll fit into whatever kind of players that you want him to have because he can kind of play in any system. But just like, all right, we're going to change in the middle of a game or we're going to change based on personnel. We got to switch against these guys. We got to blitz against these guys. We got to play drop against these guys. Saur's got to be more of a off ball help defender rover against these guys. Like he can do all that kind of stuff. And that's really rare to just be able just that skill set. Forget about like how high the quality will end up being to have that skill set and just be good at all those things is super, super rare. And that's really big for the wizards. It'll be interesting to see when they look back at this draft to compare Tray Johnson and Jeremiah Fears because the organizing point guard is still the ingredient that's not here. Fears has been good, but not so good that I have any regret about that. Obviously Ace Bailey is the guy they tried to manipulate things to go and get and it didn't fall to them. Joman, another point guard, I'm fine, Tray Johnson over him. And then you got to go all the way down to Cedric Howard and Derek Queen who were going to be taken in that range. So it's fine. 13. Did you have the Brooklyn nets? No. Would you have the Charlotte Hornets? Yeah, interchangeable at 12 and 13. Let's start with Brooklyn since it's my podcast and I had them at 13. Also 6 and 5 in their last 11 games, they've gotten everyone in their grandmother has noted that they had the number one defense in all of December. I think that still stands. Congratulations to them. Look, they're frisky. Joman is shooting 37% on 9.3s for 36 minutes. I'd like him to shoot more twos and this sort of leverage is passing a little bit or on Locke's passing a little bit more, but fine. MPJ is a real dude, man. He's not a good stats bad team guy. And if they get value for him, I think they'll flip him somewhere and I think he can help somebody. Dayeron Sharps playing well, rookies are Drake Powell starting to show some stuff. Sure, we'll see. I don't know. I don't have a lot to say about Brooklyn. I'm just going to Charlotte. Charlotte's way more fun. I have one Brooklyn thing, which I think is interesting, which I'm actually intrigued by them being so good defensively over the last month because it perfectly coincides with the change in their defensive identity because about about early in the year, they're just giving up tons of threes. They still give up a lot of threes, but early in the year, they're giving up tons of threes and they're giving up a lot of pull up threes. And so what do they do right around December 1st? I couldn't tell you if it was exactly on December 1st, but that's when everybody talks about as this marker. And they're eight and six since December 1st and they won last night against what's left of Denver. But Aaron Gordon was back in that case. Your fewest threes. I've talked about his fewest threes in most shots at the rim defensively in that stretch. Well, they started switching a ton and that's taken away threes. They were switching so much over the last month. 45% of ball screens they're switching, which like for perspective, I looked into this. I checked on second spectrum. The highest switch rate for a team in a single season since second spectrum began tracking this in 2013. 43%. Ironically from the Brooklyn nets in 2023. I was going to show so rockets team in the in the heart and the peak heart in Europe. Wouldn't have been my guess. That's what I thought to. They're number two, three and four. Okay. I go. Not about guess. That's that's what I would have thought to. But the nets are switching at a ridiculously high rate and they've changed their they were a pretty high switch defense at the beginning of the year, but not nearly as often as they're doing it now. And it's working well. And I think it's kind of confusing teams. And I think it's also making teams play later out of the shot clock, which is a good thing for them. So I'm I'm look, I don't think the best defense in the league by any stretch of the imagination. But do I think like my I have one nuts fan friend who is just constantly freaking out about how they're going to ruin the tank? Do I think he should be worried about them ruining the tank? Like maybe maybe he should be worried about getting the ninth pick. Well, yeah, they're there in the the Utah bucket of are we winning too many games, though they don't have the same risk that you talk has in terms of a protected pick that they owe. It's really next year when the rockets can swap with them that is that is the that is the real problem because that puts a limit on, you know, what the value being bad is next year, obviously, they still have $15 million of space. I don't quite, you know, they have switchable guys. They have size. Clackston is a classic switching center. Sharp less so, but he's been good for them on both ends of the floor. Frankly, I don't really get how they're doing it. They're getting a little lucky with jumpshooting, obviously, but still kudos to the nets. The Hornets you know, they've had some quality wins lately. The beat the magic, the hawks, the calves, when they had the calves at everybody but mobility for that game of their big, their big four, I guess. They're delighted to watch. I will keep beating this stat into the ground until it becomes untrue. They are plus 34 total points, but in only 200 minutes, that's a real stat, 213 minutes with Brandon Miller, Lamello Ball and Conkiniple on the floor. That's something. I don't know what this teams roadmap to a competent defenses for the next two or three years. Obviously, that's the big picture step. Lamello is quietly up to 37% on threes after the worst shooting slump. I could ever imagine him having. I don't think there's going to be a trade for him. I think Charlotte should be okay with that. I'm done talking about Lamello and the decision making. I've done it to death. I just like watching this team. The big, I mean, like Corkbrenner, he's been hurt. He's a fine defensive player. Sion James is a tank. That threesome is a really interesting offensive threesome. Miller, Ball, Conkiniple. I just don't know what the roadmap to a good defenses, but they're super fun to watch. And Conkiniple is awesome. And Brandon Miller, 28 game, the shooting's got to come up, but there's he's going to be a very, very good player. Conkiniple, Lamello chemistry is getting better too. They're running more like pick and pops lately. They'll do those. They'll have those actions where they come up and set two screens and Conkiniple's one of the screeners and they are a great stagger screen team. 100% and Lamello's created a lot of threesome for Conkiniple. Out of those plays, he finds them in transition. They're I think on a better page. And look, at some point, I don't know, tell me how hot of a take this is, but like I don't think they're going to be able to keep all those three guys together. And I don't say that because of any sort of like ego, like they're going to have to trade one of the three guys you mentioned because I don't think you can because I don't think you can build anything. You're viable. Let me have fun. Defense. I think we don't have to do it now. You don't have to do it now, but just it, you're not you're not near contention. You want to see the evidence build up. You want to see who you want to keep. And like Conkiniple's awesome. And Lamello's obviously, you know, unbelievably talented and Brandon Miller's unbelievably talented. But like I don't can you can you survive as a even a good team if you're just getting roasted defensively all the time. Like I, well, I don't know if you can, but it's good to see the chemistry between those guys is growing in the meantime. Like you want to foster that if you're them. The front court is not really helping them. I mean, Miles Bridges is a minus at the four. Calkbrenner is a rookie who can really do one thing on defense and play one kind of scheme and not really do anything else. And after that, it's a morass. So though shout out to my guy Tijon Salon starting to play well. Look, I just think Miller should be an average to above average defensive player, particularly off the ball. He's not there yet. Conkiniple should be an average to above average defensive player. Maybe above average is strong, but he's fine. He fights hardy guards. Good guys. Lamello, I'm not talking about it more. He's big and he rebounds and we'll see. I'm not giving up on that. Yeah, I'm certainly not selling low on the mellow. I understand the big picture thought I'd like to see them with a little bit more reliable support at the four and the five. The big guys being the most important positions defensively still. Number 11, maybe this is where the disagreements really start for the cats who you got. So this is where it just like I just felt bad about literally every single team up. I feel terrible about where I rank them. Like I feel great about who I have at number 11 number 11 with a bullet. Really? I have Atlanta. You're wrong, Fred. You're wrong. And as much as I'm eating crow, I mean, I'm eating hawk from my hawks optimism. I'm not even eating crow. I'm eating hawk, which is probably against the law. I can't put them above the fucking Chicago Bulls. I'm sorry. The bulls are 11th in my rankings. I don't care that Josh Gidey's hurt. I don't care that Kobe Whites hurt. Talk about depressing. Talk about depressing. You know what's depressing? Nicole of Wutchovich is depressing. Like every single bulls game listening to Stacy King try as a big man try to hide how appalled he is that Nicole of Wutchovich has not taken a post up shot or a two pointer in like 14 consecutive minutes. Let alone what's happening on defense. He's old man. He's getting all this just sad. Look, here's here's what makes the bulls watchable. Number one, someone should be trying to steal I'll just zoom in from them. I don't know who it is. If I were a Minnesota, I'd be trying to steal him. If I were any team, they need a little dose of ball. I think I'd be trying to trick the bulls into trading me him saying, oh, you don't want to pay his extension. He's and Buzellis is starting to trend back up. If he had like hot start kind of dipped into like, where is where is he? Like why is the averaging 12 points and 0.5 assists a game for a team to sign a good? Now he's back up yet seven assists a day by far career high. His two man game with Wuchavitch and like they're doing the double big thing with Collins and sticks. Jalen Smith is he's gotten a little better at that. Obviously, everyone saw he dunked Jalen Sugs into oblivion the other day. I just look, what do you want me to say? Kevin Hurt is fun to watch. You know, they like talk about a team that might have some draft regret from this past draft. We haven't even seen a Senge who they took a 12 one spot behind Senator Coward in one spot in front of Derek Queen. And they I think all the intel suggests they had an opportunity to make the deal the Hawks made with the pelicans or something similar and didn't do it. Like, yes, the Hawks deserve all the scorn. They deserve to be 11th. They are 10th on my ballot. So it's not as if I'm calling them up into the top six or something stupid like that because they can't defend anybody with or without Trey Young in the last month. I just at least there's like exciting. At least there's some mystery to them. At least there's some trade possibilities with them. At least there's not something beyond, hey, we're going to win 39 games again. And we're going to have cap space that will probably not use or misuse. Oh my god, the bulls with cap space were terrified of them. That's it. So I have the Hawks and the Bulls at 10 at least. Yeah, I have the Bulls at 10. Thank you. Let me tell you my let me tell you my thought process. I originally had the Hawks at 10 and the Bulls at 11. And then I'm looking through it and I'm doing some prep and I remember that two weeks ago, I just watched the Bulls drop 152 points on the Hawks. And then two days later, I watched the Bulls beat the Hawks again. And I'm like, I feel like it goes against the spirit of power rankings to throw the team with the worst record that just lost to the team with the better record twice ahead of the team with the better record and that just beat them twice. So I was like, I kind of have to do it. Even though if you ask me like, well, am I taking a playoff series? I probably pick it land. I even if they have trade with all three would have taken we're taking nobody. If first of all, they can't meet in a playoff series. I'm going to sleep early. All they can do is meet in the play in a K the Bulls invitation, a slash Hawks invitation, and if they meet in the play in, let's make it three on three or something. Let's have, let's have if they meet in the play and this is the state of their franchises under 500 in the 910 spot. Let's just put like the wizards into the play and in replay. You can't, if we're going to do, if we're going to consider things like you can't pick in the top four in the draft and consecutive years, which is stupid and the NBA shouldn't consider it. How about you can't be in the play and again, you're out. You're disqualified from the play in wizards. You get promoted. Charlotte, you get promoted. Anyway, on the Hawks, look, we all know Trey is, I was actually kind of relieved that the Hawks lost the game that Trey Young didn't play to Toronto because the Hawks can't win with Trey and can't lose without him. Was getting a little bit uncomfortable for everybody involved. I don't know that there's going to be a trade for him. I've struggled to find one. I think if they were a good one, they would do it. I've advocated that the Hawks' best path may be to just do nothing, particularly as the Pelicans despite their best efforts to try and win are now losing every game. Again, they've lost seven games in a row and are dead last in the West and obviously the Hawks control their pick. We shall see what happens. Here's a question Hawks related for you. I want you're just quick off the cuff reaction. Nikhil Alexander Walker, career year, should the wolves regret essentially choosing Nas Reed over Nikhil Alexander Walker? Hmm, that's a good question. I'm going to say no because I don't think you can reasonably say that anybody should have seen this coming. I don't think the Hawks. I can tell you, the Hawks didn't sign Nikhil Alexander Walker and Billiker, right? This guy's going to blow up average 1920 games, still shooting same percentages from three being off ball menace and the defense is going to stay at the same level. The Hawks weren't thinking that. The Hawks thought they were getting the wolves version of Nikhil Alexander Walker. In hindsight, maybe because Minnesota has go bear and they have randled already and sometimes it's a little bit log jammy for them at the big and they need a point guard. Obviously, but it's not like Nikhil Alexander Walker is coming out there and like initiating the offense all that much. He's still mostly an off ball guard, Dyson Daniels does more initiating for them. Like Luke Cronard will come in with the bench units and run some pick and rolls. Like Nikhil's not bringing the ball up, running a ton of actions. Obviously, Jalen Johnson's doing stuff and Mintreya's there. He's doing stuff. He's still kind of playing similarly. He's just doing it in a way more in your face way and the shots are way up and he has been fantastic. But I don't know. I don't really think the wolves should regret it and I don't criticize them for their process. What do you think? I don't either. It's a question that I get asked a lot when I go to games or when I meet with people. Because people like, you know, I did this part with Krasinski a couple weeks ago on the Sixers and the Wolves. I called it the, oh, you forgot about us, Pod and that these two teams are, we're at that time trending well and sort of reminding people like, hey, like, hey, wolves, we've been in the conference finals. Tears in a row. I know we're not sexy. I think they're pretty damn good. Then they went right into a slump, but they've dug back out of it. And I just think roster wise, although they have two heavy minute bigs in Randall and Gobert, like they should have been positioned to make that decision because you need three good bigs. It gives you trade flexibility with Randall or Gobert or Gobert or something comes down the pike. And you had Dillingham and Clark and like guys that were sort of waiting in the wings for some of those guard minutes. It's just sort of what it is. If it's any other or I don't, I don't lose any sleep over it. Jalen Johnson, by the way, completely legit. He used to get better defensively, but he's completely, completely legit and he's fine. He's good average-ish defensively. He just should be better than that. Number nine. For me? Yeah. Number number nine. This is where I put the bucks. I didn't know what to do with the bucks. I'm like, I can't row. When they have Janis, they're 13 and 9. When Janis, when Janis is on the court, they're 20.3 points for a hundred possessions better. It's the largest differential for any player with like 500 minutes in the whole league. It completely changes everything. But they also come out and they do this disappointing crap. And I don't know if Janis is going to be there. He's been in the lineup. He's been dealing with injuries. The rest of their roster is kind of whatever. They're not a very good margins team. I didn't really know what to do with them. I still wouldn't pick them to win a playoff series, even if they were fully healthy. So I just put them at nine because I don't know what they've done with that. Janis has to matter. And if I just assume Janis is there, I guess you could justify higher, but I've just been thoroughly unimpressed kind of the whole way. A couple of clarifiers. I should have set up front. The criteria for these rankings is, can you make the 2026 NBA finals? That's the criteria for me. Number two, I'm parking the Janis thing over here. We've all talked about it. We all know who the teams are. We all know what the timing is. Let's just assume for a sake of discussion that this is a thing that if it happens, happens over the summer and not in the season. Because I do think they're still trying to buy. And if they buy, maybe they'll help themselves. But here's the case for the bucks. You mentioned the record with Janis. It's in the point differential with him on the floor. If that were a like, there are plus two with Janis on the floor and minus 18 with him off the floor, that doesn't do anything for me as a bucks would be bucks optimist, which I am not. There are plus 10 with Janis on the floor. Like they're a straight up dominant team with Janis on the floor. They're starting five, which is still relatively new of Porter, Green, Rollins, Janis Turner. Plus 59 and 114 minutes. This is the case for the bucks to be above this and the power rankings and to actually go in to the playoffs with a semi-not-delegional belief that we can do damage is we have the best player. And when that guys on the floor with our team of shooters around him, we have a good shooter, a very good shooting team. We're pretty god damn good. I just think obviously there's no margin for him missing any games. There's in the playoffs, there's not even like a margin for him playing less than 40 minutes in some of these games. And the supporting cast is so rickety around him and semi-unreliable that I just don't, I don't trust any of it. But the numbers are what they are. And I do think they'll try to do something and to trade that on it. Save, spare me the were four and once this Janis came back because the wins are Chicago in a close game, the dunk game. I love the dunk. Charlotte in a semi-close game, Charlotte on a Yanis basically buzzer-beater, dunk almost. The wizards they lost and then the Kings who are just if we I should we should do an offseason pod on just the most unwatchable teams of the last 15 years. Just unwatchable, not even bad unwatchable. This is there in the conversation. I just they'd be in the conversation for the top five spot. Okay, number eight. Now, now it gets really interesting. It actually didn't get like I think the two to five, one to five is the most interesting actually. But it starts getting interesting now given the way Philly is playing particularly. Who'd you have at number eight? Miami. Okay, I had Toronto. Where'd you have Toronto? Seven. All right, so I had Miami seven. So we flipped them seven and eight. Yeah, make the case. All right, Toronto is 21 and 15, fourth in the east, sixth in net rating among East teams. So a little bit above where we have them at you had them seven. I had them eighth, right? There are 19th and offense and fourth in defense. Overall, Miami is 2016 hot lately. They are seventh in the east. So three spots behind the raptors. There are 14th and offense and third in defense. So similarly skewed teams. The heat are four and one and they're last five. I don't know, but make the case, make the case for Toronto. We wake up and Toronto is two two and the second round of the playoffs and we've underrated them here. Toronto is very, very good at bleeding teams late into the shot clock. And I think that's a really good skill. I really, really like that for them. That's why they're so good defensively. They fought four small shots late in the clock than any other team in the league and they force a ton to turnovers. And I think that's a really, really good combination. So I kind of think their defense is pretty real. It's why I mean, I've seen some people say they're, I think they're allowing the second or third worst accuracy on three corners in the league right now. And you look at that and you're like, okay, maybe that comes down. But part of the reason why is because they're giving up so many shots late in the clock and a lot of those are just rushed grenades that end up flying out to someone and you just kind of have to put it up. They defend really hard. They force a lot of turnovers. They get out and transition. They're good and transition when they do it. The Half-Court offense is nothing special. Miami's offense is really fun to watch and Norm Powell's been amazing. But it's okay from a, you know, from an actual quality standpoint. And the other thing with Miami is I feel like both these teams have styles that they really understand and good identities and they know how to play them. But Toronto knows how to use its players. Miami is figuring out how to use its players still. Like they still don't know exactly what they're doing with the with the Bamwear combination. They've started the last few games. We're here some crazy. So I'm watching their game on New Year's Day and they started Bam and Wear in that game. And Wear is in the left corner and Wear just makes a pass out to Bam to the top of the key for a three. Bam goes up and shoots it. And misses the three. And I'm like, whatever. That was the first time all season that Wear has made a pass to Bam for a shot. The first time all season that's happened. Like those guys are really learning how to play together still. And they've they've started. They've started them the last I think four games. They've played 67 minutes. The last four games together. And Miami is like plus 13 or plus 15 in those 67 minutes, which is really encouraging and really good. And we've seen like some bear Bam to wear. We've seen somewhere to Bam. I just think like the most important thing you can do as a team is figure out how to maximize yourself with all of your best players on the court together. And Wear is really special and he's really good. And Bam is obviously phenomenal. And I think you just don't have to figure that out. And that was kind of my tie breaker there. Even though, like I didn't really feel incredibly strongly. I could have gone with your order too. Hey, look, if you want to tell me Raptors people, heat people that you should be above even these spots, like, Hey, Zach, why are you trusting the 76ers who are leaning on a rookie and a chronically injured big man and some Paul George who's been fine, but his head injury issues. What is your basis for trusting the calves who are constantly dealing with health issues and just haven't looked that good period even now that they're trending. Well, none of their wins have left me thinking, okay, the calves, the calves are really back. Darius Garland looks better. Hasn't cracked 20 points in his last five games. Looks better. Hey, Zach, why are you trusting the Orlando magic? Franz is hurt. Sugs got hurt again. Yeah, Anthony Black has broken out. Palace has some good games. They still have fit issues, whatever. I get it. Like I would, I get all that with Toronto. You're dead right on their defense. And they're doing that because they're very switchy. And they leverage their size on the wing really well. And they close out like maniacs. They run people off the line. And the next guy is always coming. They have this bench that comes in led by Jamal Shed, Jacobi Walker and Mamu, who has been again, I'll say it again, maybe the best bang for the buck free agency signing of the entire summer. And they just like spring traps in the back court and teams are don't teams are overwhelmed by the frenzy with which the Raptors play defense. And offensively look, they've made the best of it, right? And by make the best of it, here's an example from a recent game are they used to corners very well because someone's got to be in the corner. You have Barrett who has handled the ball a lot in his career. In grew me, hand is the ball a lot. Scotty Barnes handles the ball. What they can't all be at the top of the key handling the ball, especially with Emmanuel quickly as your nominal point card. They got to use the corners well. Well, here comes RJ Barrett, rocketing up from the corner into a double dribble handoff with Scotty Barnes as the first screener in Emmanuel quickly. So two of your three of your four ball handlers together in a double pick and roll on the empty side of the floor. Barnes rolls hard to the rim, which he's been doing more quickly flares out for three. Defence has to react to Barrett's drive because Barrett quietly 19 and five per game on good shooting. Kind of a glue guy for this team, not someone that at this point, you will he nearly throw into a trade for, I don't know. Anthony Davis making $60 million a year over the next two years. RJ Barrett comes around, kicks to quickly wide open three, boom, quickly shooting his trended up decision making up and down. They just make the best of an imperfect fit on both ends of the floor. I just don't know what the ceiling for their offences, their defenses legit. And the heat, I had them above the raptors only for sort of heady reasons of is there a trade to be made. The Bamwear thing largely hasn't worked. You mentioned it's trending a little bit better lately. The fly on the wall there is hero. And when hero comes back, he was he was available yesterday and did not play. I don't know, I just they're just a rock solid team. And Yovic has come back and played well, which is encouraging for them. I think we have the right teams at seven and eight. And now curious who you have at six. At number six, I have the Philadelphia 76ers. Me too. Can we go back to the raptors for a second? Wow, I'm surprised we've been pretty similar. It's going to get messy soon. Okay. Back to the raptors. I mentioned AD. I don't do that like just randomly. I think they will look at pretty much every big man who's available to them because the portal back issue is serious enough that they just sign Mo Bomba who was not playing anywhere. Not serious. I don't know how serious it is. I see him at games walking into the games is warming up sometimes. He's just not playing. I don't think subonus will be a target for them. I could be wrong about that, but my educated guess would be no. So I don't know where they'll go. We can go through all the bigs. I don't want to do right now. It just goes back. I remember you and I podcasted about this. We picked our most like most. I don't know what we called it like weirdest or most bizarre contract of the offseason. And my pick was the portal extension three years, whatever it was that pays him $27 million in 2030, $29 million in 2029. So it declines a little bit. It's not a huge crippling amount of money. I just didn't get it. And if I'm another team and I've got to take that contract and a trade, no thanks. I got a pearls, a good player. Good all around player. It's just I didn't get it. But anyway, I think they'll look at all the bigs. Okay, Philly. 19 and 14. Fifth in the east, only eighth in net rating among Eastern Conference teams. However, everything looks rosy right now for it cats. Three straight wins, blew the doors off the nicks at MSG. Nicks were almost fully healthy for that game. We're on it back to back, but fully healthy. Maxine and B plus four and a half points per 100 possessions. Joel, I'm officially getting nervous because I he looks markedly better than he did two weeks ago. He dunked for the first time all season in that game. And mock celebrated at the end of the game. He had he's jumping higher. I don't have the tools to measure that, but I can tell you that when old you and an OB drove all on the baseline and Joel and bead went up with perfect verticality. He went up higher than he's been on pretty much any shot challenge like that this season. His rim frequency on offense is up. He's seeking a little bit more contact on offense, which is good. And I just love the way he's playing with Edgecomb and Maxi and Grimes and McCain is sort of the fourth guy in that order now in his head in season. And bead is is playing very much with them and not apart from them. So you guys want to run ahead like all throw a hit ahead pass. You guys go VJ Edgecomb. You are a fiend in transition. I'm cool hanging back behind half court. You guys go finish the job. His average time per touch this season is 2.2 seconds. That's half a second to a second lower than he was in his big MVP years. He is very much sharing the offense with them and taking it over in a way at times it makes sense. Paul George has been awesome. They have two first drum picks at their disposal to trade and kind of a whole lot power forward depending on I don't know if they have a hole because Barlow has been good. You Barri Walker has been good. They played Paul Georgia power forward. Sometimes with with the key three guards in and bead that is trending right. I don't know man. The way they're playing right now they can beat any of these teams above them in a playoff series period. That's how good they look right now. I have them here for the obvious reasons. I don't trust you all in Beats Health and it makes me a little nervous to be very reliant on a rookie and they're a little undersized at guard although all those guards fight like Hell on defense. But if this is the Joil and Beat forget like he keeps trending up above this if just this is the Joil and Beat they get in the playoffs and he's able to play every game. They should not be scared of anybody above them. I don't know if they have enough gas to win three playoffs series in the East but they are absolutely capable of beating any of you think that they're scared of the next they went toe to toe with the nicks in the playoffs already and it was like one two calls away from going the other way. I don't know man. I'm getting a little nervous about how I like I've just I got to check myself a little bit got check that's why I have them six got check myself a little bit Fred and they've been the next twice at MSG recently and Maxi oh my goodness the year Maxi is having like Maxi might end up first in my MBA. I talk about this one right now. I'm being if Wembee misses enough games and Janice misses enough games to disqualify them because of the stupid 65 game rule which should I I talked about it last week. I don't like that it applies to all MBA to to the strict degree that it does. He's going to be in a really interesting conversation with guys like Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson and Jalen Brown who we're going to get to for a first team all in B.A. Spot. He's been that good. Yeah 100% I mean an MVP ballots like all of a sudden if those guys aren't eligible now you're starting to talk about like him and Cade three and four something like that like he has been outrageous with the way that he's been leading this team this year those those guards just smack you in the face it is their speed is unbelievable and I was they played the next recently and so I'm based at New York so I'm in their visiting locker room and I was just chatting with Quentin Grimes and we're talking about him be and I was asking him is it like is it tough to catch a rhythm right now in terms of like the overall team when it beats in these out he's in these out do you feel like you have to accommodate him and Grimes was like no it's the opposite like he's he's accommodating us and when he comes back the amount of just attention that comes off of us is just night and day like when he's back it's just it's unbelievable and you're right like you know what he had before the dunk that was awesome I heard you mentioned it on the pod the other day and I had a similar reaction he had that self out of you yeah but you know why that was awesome you know why it was great it was because he thought he could do it like how often early in the year did we see oh he's not dunking because he doesn't think he can dunk he's not making these plays because he he doesn't think he can do it yet that was just like if I'm if I'm Nick Nurser Darryl Mori that's a thousand dollar fine if you try that again we're not we're not we're not playing that game big bad big fellow but you know what the the dunk at the end of next game fight you nobody was near you just plop it in there that the self out of you we're not doing it again full that was a full that was full force of cockiness right there that was like I am I am ratcheting it all the way back he felt comfortable he felt confident he felt good in his body when he did it he missed the dunk and he almost did it like he just missed the dunk but if he like I just thought the the ambition to be able to do that was something we hadn't really seen from him early in the year he looks really good the jump shooting still needs to come around which it probably will the guy I trust his jump shot me too I just like I look at the jump shooting as I should say I trust his long two I'm not sure I trust the three it'll be better than it is now as he gets his legs underneath him even more but I don't like he's going to be a mid-thirties three point shooter on wide open shots the long two I trust is a dark level fail safe for them yeah he's one of the best mid-range shooters in the league when he goes in a slump I consider it a fluke and I I move forward with that but they can give you a lot of different looks edge comb edge comb is just a force man dude he is a force he had to play against the nicks the other day where he blocked me kill bridges and then dunked on the other end it was the first time me kill bridges been blocked on a three in two years you blocked them blocked them on a corner three you come versus a ridiculously me kill bridges as mechanics are a hundred percent just to avoid contests like that's why he shoots the way he does he has such an insanely high release he has ridiculously long arms it's just to avoid a hand in his face when he goes up and it's come got you want to talk about it and be getting up high it's going to be so high to block that corner three and then got the transition dunk which was like a ferocious dunk I mean he is something else and and I'm waiting for McCain to turn it around he's he's a really smooth off the dribble player and a really good shooter I'm I'm waiting for him to find some comfort level coming back from the injury and kind of within this you know smaller role that he has I mean and Paul George has been the perfect version of Paul George for this team and this is more or less this is like with VJ Edgecomb the team that everybody including me was kind of optimistic about going into last year which ends up being a disaster and it just can't you can't say enough the series of events the basketball gods had to go through to get Maxi and Edgecomb onto this team in terms of pick protections and where the like muskall go and crazy in the last game of the season but they're here and Edgecomb look everybody in Dallas wants the rookie of the year race to be over and there are Paul that anyone is talking about anybody else for a key of the year and I do think it's going to come down to Cooper flag who is awesome and Khan Kinniple VJ Edgecomb was averaging 16 and a half points a game on a real team a team that's winning games flags at 19 a game and Kinniple's at 19.4 Edgecomb is shooting 38% on threes he's defending quite often the best perimeter player on the other team regardless of position but particularly if they are a ball a lead point guard like Jalen Brunson Cooper flag is shooting 27% on threes kind of a problem now I do think his defensive ceiling is super high his playmaking is secondary playmaker when they actually use him in that way and they begun benching Ryan Nehmart again and starting point flag which I don't really get I think he'll be the best player out of this class he's probably going to be my pick for a key of the year but you know Edgecomb I think would probably finish third right now because Kinniple 19.4 points a game 50 48% shooting 56% on twos 43% on threes flags a better defender he's a better passer by a little bit he's probably a better all around player long term if not now like I'm sorry that the rookie the race is open between those two guys in Edgecomb is a stronger third place finish year as you'll find and I'm not closing the book on him climbing up he's been awesome be interesting to see what they do at the trade deadline because they are over the tax which is a little bit prohibitive but they have those picks to trade and if they got any kind of upgrade at the four look out okay yeah Kelly Ureisman out too Kelly Ureisman out too and Ure will fit in well when he's back he fits in that's what he does Paul George a power forward by the way there plus 13 per 100 possessions according to cleaning glass maybe they don't need an upgrade to them maybe just roll with this and see what happens oh I know what I was going to say that next game an example of M.B.D. fitting in they ran the same play probably 20 times in that game and it was Maxi in M.B.D. picking roll on the left side of the floor no one else on that side and as they're running a pick and roll and it beats rolling to the rim for the most parties not just doing the M.B.D. thing of I'm going to low low back to three point arc they're running that play on the left side Paul George is curling around a screen or Quinn Grimes is curling around a screen in the right corner and then someone else is flashing up on the right wing to give Maxi an outlet they tore the nicks apart on that plate and B.D. scored at the rim Paul George hit corner threes and the best one of all was Maxi came around the screen hit edge comb on the right wing is his release valve edge comb touch it to M.B.D. rolling towards the rim and B.D. dropped it off to jibari walker for a dunk those are the kind of plays you see those kind of plays like there's something really right going on in the ecosystem of this team but they're still six. Okay now we get into the who the fuck knows zone of the top five and if again if you if you want to put Philly in here fine I got no argument with you who do you have five Orlando okay so here's who we have left to to to be clear Detroit Cleveland Boston Orlando I also had Orlando fifth so we have the same top five and so I knew and New York we have New York New York that I don't say New York New York Orlando's fifth they're fifth for me too I think they could make the finals and they're fifth I think they can make the finals because I don't know who do have real strong faith in above them for various reasons as like a no-brainer like that's a final quality team I don't think there is that team in the Eastern Conference you could make an argument for Orlando at any spot in the top five they are here for me for the simplest possible reason. Jalen Suggles heard again and I think he is the skeleton key for this team for the Bancairo Frans Wagner fit which is still kind of unproven I think their defense which is currently 11th is going to be top five to six quality when healthy they're 13th on offense that's great Bancairo has been playing better the last week or so I just I wish I an Anthony Black is breaking out into like a star third fourth kind of player on both ends of the floor I just wish I had any faith in Jalen Suggles to stay healthy let alone anyone else on the team suffering a deal time injury can we talk about Anthony Black sure I feel like I feel like people aren't really realizing exactly what's happening with Anthony Black lately like it's not that Anthony Black is is oh all the sudden this guy is starting to hit his threes and now he's becoming the really good role player that that people would have wanted his last nine games he's averaging 24 game on ridiculous shooting his playmaking is great when he first came into league he didn't have the shot and he had the athleticism he had the explosiveness he had the defense he had the size he had the length it was a bunch of tools one maybe the most informative thing a scout has ever told me and it completely changed the way that I look at players is that every single person when they watch a basketball player has a bias towards tools but tools don't matter it's how you use the tools so you look at a player who's long and athletic and quick and fast and jumps high and physical and whatever else but if they don't use those tools to actually do anything well you're going to get deceived and we see that with players all the time and it's not that Black didn't do those things well but he didn't do enough he didn't use those tools well tools well enough for us to really see stuff when he first came in the league he was like I'm just going to use my size and my strength and my speed I'm going to dart to the rim and that's just what I'm going to do and he's like he's like I wrote on him last week I compared him to a pitcher who started who just threw all fastballs and didn't have any sort of other bitch to add to it and all of a sudden he's like he's added a change up and he's added he's added a pretty good sweeper and like in the Met sign him to be in their starting class in this in this scenario and their starting rotation because he sounds great they could use it they could use it you could be an Edwin Diaz replacement good luck with Devon Williams by the way he's he's been really he's been look I'm a Yankees friend I had to deal with Devon Williams it was it was quite an experience you're now banned enjoy your last appearance on the Zach Loshun thanks for that's that's that's okay it's worth it it's worth it I I got to support the Yankees black has so many moves around the rim now so many moves I know he's been working the assistant coach he works out with there is God Sham God and he has been working with him on all this kind of stuff so he's got this really nice euro step now he has this awesome up and under which like he'll he'll jump stop into the driver now fake up and then he'll he'll he'll go under he'll do it against bigs he tries the little rondo fake like he he has so many different moves around the rim and also just have plays where he's like oh I'm just gonna dunk on you right now or I'm just gonna power through you and I'm just gonna finish a totally normal looking layup as if there's no defender there even though there was somebody contesting but I'm so fast and so strong that I'm gonna do it meanwhile he's hitting tons of threes now and he's a really he's a very good defender uh I'm like watching him as like wait is I always thought there was potential for Anthony black to be become a real player and a good player on a winning team I never really thought about him as like wait is Anthony black gonna be awesome potentially and now I'm watching him like he might become awesome if he does become awesome what the heck does Orlando do because they've got Sugs who's a tremendously important under contract big contract moving forward bang big contract moving forward um fronze and palo max contracts moving forward like how is Orlando gonna handle this I know there are a lot of people in the league who are already looking around even before blacks break out there are people in the league who were looking around are like when right after they trade it for bane I feel like everyone's reaction the Lee was like okay is there gonna be a Sugs trade coming because like this team has second apron dangers and at some point they will have to move on from some of these guys in some way and if they're not good enough then they're gonna have to make a move and if Anthony black is really awesome that just makes that process even more urgent I am really curious but for now like oh I've loved watching Anthony black oh my goodness he can't come out of the starting lineup yes one of my that's why one of my favorite fake trades before I realized it was not illegal but very hard to do is bank hero for y'allness uh with with Orlando sitting more than that to get on us but that's off the table poison pill for palo uh Anthony black all star not this year but Anthony black future all star is officially in play um what's been interesting and you mentioned how his combination of craft and power around the basket I'm waiting for the team that just treats him like rondo that's like we're going under every pick against you and watching the Pacers blitz him last time like I don't understand why you're doing that now it could be because teams have just decided he's too good for that he's too good for that because if he knows we're going under the magic can set the screens lower and flip them and do all that stuff and he's so fast and powerful that he'll beat us to the spot behind the screen and just go through us for a lip it could be that teams have enough respect for his jump shot now it's not just that he's shooting better from three shooting more of them and more from above the break and it's like a reasonable outcome for the magic what this means for their future of SUGS at 30 plus million black bank hero and bogner on maxes uh the latter two on maxes we'll see I mean SUGS I'm not sure how teams would approach SUGS in a trade given that again he's hurt and for now for the purposes of this power rankings there's been so much scrutiny on bank hero uh and and they found something with Bain black SUGS and one of Wagner and Bain Carro and I do think Bain Carro is making a concerted effort to make faster decisions he when he gets into trouble is when the ball stops with him and that's partly his fault and he'll sometimes go one-on-one against guys that are just like you going one-on-one from nineteen feeding against pass gals the outcomes of bad outcome for our team but it's also partly the magic's fault like if the ball if one action kicked to bank hero at the top of the arc and no one moves and no one sets a screen for him and no one cuts that's the teams fault too but I do think he's trying to shave a little bit of that out of his game the way for him is screen roll make plays come off of base sometimes run him off pin downs quick make the next play like you can walk into 25 30 points playing that way anyway I just don't trust the health enough to have them above fifth few Adam in the top three I contemplated them as high as two I can't get to one with them but the health is what it is uh I think any of these five teams could win these by the way any any any of the top five maybe even I mean I struggle to say Philly because I don't see him be just having it last for that long and it fully could beat anyone but I don't know if they could be any three um all right I think anyone in top five let's get spicy Fred Orlando at five was I think the easiest call of these five teams and it wasn't an easy one at all would you have it for Cleveland me too this is not spicy at all I flip flop Cleveland and a couple of other teams particularly Boston because and Detroit like Detroit has do I trust their spacing um do I trust their secondary ball handling around Cade Boston has like I don't even understand what's happening here how a team with no proven NBA big men is playing this well what they are this good and this this is for this is 34 games of them being the best point differential team in the East and Cleveland I initially had them third I flirted with them at second because I've seen the ceiling and I know what it is with these four guys playing together I just my my faith is a little bit fracture garland again has lived better but not still not great like I'm not scared of derriest garland when he has the ball the way that I should be some of the craft and change of pace I thought about his back but he's not like blowing up as a score or a distributeer really he's been fine he's been good they're still going to be undersized at the at guard they're they're not healthy like Wade's been wadest a couple of games you know Jared Allen was out with I think an illness um yesterday or two days ago whenever they last yesterday against Detroit they lost that game to the pistons who are obviously above them on both of our lists truth like is when is he coming back is is he coming back like what's happening with Max Shruss I I'm tired of admiring his collection of baseball hats on the bench like is he gonna play I'm I'm glad I'm kind of glad that they have minimized although they brought them back yesterday I just don't there's I don't like their small three guard lineups I don't like Merrill plus garland plus Lonzo Merrill plus Garland plus Mitchell I just think it's too small Lonzo has been largely not good for them Tyson has been a godsend and has changed their season I just just it just feels too shaky for me the hunter fit hasn't been good I just as they're on paper they're better than four and I'm projecting this as they're like ranking going forward as their championship chance I just can't put them I can't put them above four I my faith has been wobbled yeah I feel very similarly to where I'm like I'm I'm watching them and I even watch them against Phoenix and like this kind of looks like the calves like last year's calves this looks like the the offense that could get anything it looks like it looks like the Jared Allen that you want to see too like Jared Allen just like wasn't playing in fourth quarters for such a long time it lasted like two games it was great can I see it for can I see it for three weeks they beat just a great win against the spurs that was awesome that's why that's why I've got a bit at four like Boston is just to me like Boston's just like they did it the calves are the calves are honestly at four in theory for me I'm like okay it's treading in a better direction it's trending in a better direction right now so I'm going to have them at four in theory but if I have them if I do just purely off of results for the first 35 36 games of the year Cleveland has not been the fourth best team in the league so far this year and with Boston I just look at it and like no they're they're oh in the beast I'm sorry in the east in the east yes I mean I I look at I look at Boston and I'm like Boston's got the results like Boston has done this and we can talk about Boston Garland's been better I mean I think ultimately what it comes down to in Cleveland is like I really think it comes down to Garland I really think everybody has underrated that guy's importance to their offense for a really long time Donovan Mitchell is amazing he is he is their star no disagreements and he has been unbelievable the entire season however Garland is the dude who is kind of the heartbeat of their offense like or maybe maybe maybe Mitchell is the heart and and and and Garland is just the brain because he's the guy who's operating everything he's the guy who's getting downhill he's the guy creating corner three's like Cleveland was was creating bad three's in the early part of the year they weren't getting to the rim at all in the early part of the year whether Garland played or they didn't and and Garland was having plays where like clearly the show was affecting him and if he gets healthy I think that team looks a lot different I think we're starting to see good signs of that I'm just I'm not all the way there good good signs again like he's been fine um you know the last two weeks he's been largely fine I don't know if fine is good enough to win the East and you know even even yesterday he had a I can't remember if he took a hard fall or something where he looked like he something bad happened to his foot and then he shook it off and he was fine but like 16 and 6 18 and 8 19 and 6 15 and 11 12 and 1 assists like those are okay games they're not earth shattering games and going into the season I did I did a podcast with Blake Riffon I remember right before the season and it was just let's bounce around eight big questions for the season and we had to cut it for time and one of the ones I didn't end up asking him for time was do we get to the end of the season and just conclude Evan Mobley as a center and I wish we had had that discussion at the time because you mentioned Jared Allen's fourth quarter minutes dwindling and like how much faith that they have in that conversation it's just too many big picture questions right now could they make the finals absolutely I did not pick them to make the finals before the season I picked the next I'm gonna stick with that pick and live with it um just doesn't feel great okay so we have the same top three in some order I went and I don't feel good about it I don't feel good about it I went New York Detroit Boston what did you do that's what you did one two three or three two one one two three I went exactly New York Detroit but we I don't think we deviated more than one spot on any team let's let's let's let's talk about Boston who has a legitimate claim remarkably to the number one spot I almost put them at four because I I just I've just shocked like Nemi Keta is their starting center they're starting at four is now house it was kind of jail and brown slash Jordan Walsh for a while now Jordan Walsh is coming off the bench my not has disappeared from their rotation he played some minutes at the four their backup five is either nobody or Luca Garza who is playing out of his mind in the last two or three weeks it just didn't feel like a front court that was going to be good enough to hold up against the best NBA teams and it has been in Keta's been unbelievable they also have been basically completely healthy at the top of their rotation prichard white brown have been healthy pretty much the whole season brown I think Mr. couple games at some point um they're second in the entire stinking NBA in offense I can't even believe how good they are offensively they are the they are the most the the slipriest pick and roll attack in the entire league is Boston Derek White is a menace to society as the back screener in spain picking roles and for people who don't know what a spain pick and roll is it looks like a regular pick and roll between let's say jail and brown and Keta but Derek White is coming up the lane setting a back screen on Keta's guy to confuse the defense to give maybe jail and brown a free roll to them except Derek White sometimes doesn't even set that screen he goes up to set it and then he goes sideways and he's open for a three they are so hard to contain on the ball um I just I they have a legitimate claim to the number one simply because they have been to number one point differential team in the east I can't believe how good they are um and I'll say this everyone's been and then the Tatum thing nerf gun to my head I think Tatum's coming back this season I don't know what that means for the Celtics I don't know how he looks I don't know if he wants to step in immediately to being Jason Tatum if so what that does to the team and instead of being like a secondary guy and feeling his way back in seems like it can't hurt like I'd like to have Jason Tatum in some form on this team even a sort of recovering Jason Tatum uh I just and and everyone has been sort of penciling them in as a salary dump team and they made dump salary I'm putting it out there I think they might buy at the trade deadline and I think they should I think they should look at they have a lot of draft assets to trade I don't think it's going to be anything splashy it may not even end up adding payroll to their team I think there's a Simon's for a big man trade a spare parts and a pick for a big man trade I don't know who the team is like with who the player is like would you sip nerc at shelf their team I don't know it's going to be something unsexy like that I think they're buying I think they should buy I think Detroit who will get to absolutely should be a buyer at the trade deadline even though they're a young team young teams typically don't get far in the playoffs yada yada this is this conference is so open that I don't even think those rules apply to a team like the pistons but the Celtics are just the maybe the story of the NBA season is is Boston I think they're legit and I think that big three of brown pritchard white on the perimeter is just rock solid on both ends of the floor and jalen brown jalen birds have you 30 points again 51% shooting 37% on threes should be in the conversation for first team all NBA if one of those spots opens up jalen brown has been unbelievable just went for 50 the other night didn't win player of the month seemed genuinely hurt by not winning player of the month got the support of Joe mazula for not winning player of the month we have so many awards now could is there another stupid award the NBA can make up we have defender of the week or month there in coach of the buy weekly could we give them the semi jc pennies semi annual player of the month like what like what can we give him yeah I think they should I think they should have best jalen of the month yeah they should have pick best pick setter of the high holy holidays they can do that too we could we could do a whole thing best number seven of the month that's number seven I would take best number seven I don't know player numbers totally off on player numbers who could touch wins best 77 of the month for the 47th consecutive week but visa edge call might steal it next week jalen brought to you by Kia and jalen brown jalen brown has been unbelievable Derek white got off to a really cold start with this with a shot and now it just looks like Derek white again is hitting a ton of threes and and being awesome I mean the offense that Joe mazula has set up to is pretty amazing like the system is is unbelievable I did a story probably a month ago a month and a half ago about why offensive rebounding is so back in the NBA and there's more offensive rebounding now they're like 20 teams 18 teams with an offensive rebound rate above 30% right now and only a few years ago it was like five only only a five years ago it was one teams are crashing the boards like never before and they're crashing more guys and they're doing it stylistically differently and the Celtics didn't back to email doca as their head coach have been ahead of the curve on this for a while uh doca has I should say mazula who's insisting under adoka has like only taken it further he's become obsessed with the science of crashing and you look at some of their like wings off the bench like you look at like Jordan Walsh and you look at how they use him after a shot goes up they're like Jordan Walsh just go freaking crazy when a shot goes up you are going to go to the rim you're just going to be lying there and you're going to get everything and guess what Jordan Walsh has been really really good for them this year especially at that uh it's helping their biggs it's helping their second chances they're right now they're just like such an analytically friendly team right I mean they're just more threes than anybody top five top six non offensive rebound rate they're number one in turnover rate offensively they just never turn the ball over and when you win the possession game to that degree because you're not turning the ball over because you're creating extra chances with your offensive rebounds and then you're turning those chances into threes like you are going to maximize and you have good three point shooters like you are going to maximize your chances of having a pretty good offense like that formula is awesome it's it's it's really good I think they're just really good I don't think there's anything flukish about them and freaking jalen brown like that guy saw a challenge in front of him and could have said this is going to be a gap year and instead is just so much better has just answered the call in every single way possible as a facilitator as a score his handle which he's been killed for forever is better he had a spin move a couple of games ago which didn't even lead to a bucket but I was like oh my goodness that little lefty spin around to do it I was like that was just unbelievably quick and he maintained his balance his balance has been unbelievable off the dribble the ability to create shots he's been he's been amazing I have an all-star ballot this year like no brainer all-star starter in the game that doesn't make any sense uh he's he's he's been amazing um and the talent drain that had me take the under that had me pessimistic about them relative to certainly this 22 and 12 the talent drain has not been a talent drain Drew holiday hasn't played in forever Christophe sports ingus is not played much for the hawks and by the way the hawks will tell you yeah we've struggled without with with trade defensively we know that we want to see what tray with a rim protector actually looks like because a cog who is good as he is is not giant around the basket yeah kind of should have factored in kp missing some games I should have factored in kp missing more games than I did by the way just one last just to rub my rub my own face in the dirt on the hawks can we start talking about dice and Daniels being seven of 57 on threes this season seven of five people 12 percent he he made 83s last year what what what he's lost his confidence that was a thing in New Orleans New Orleans the whole thing with him in New Orleans was he'd miss some shots and then all of a sudden he'd be like oh miss the shot I'm kind of out yeah we know it would we're going to have this hesitance yeah when you're seven to 57 I'm kind I come I'm cool with you hesitating at least not it's not helping any but I think it all snowballs it all snowballs like last year he had some shots and the hawks were really excited that they felt like he kind of evolved from that and I think this year there's been some reversion because we see hesitance in other parts of his game like don't get me wrong defensively he's still excellent but I don't think he's been at the level defensively this year he was last year the the steals and deflections the defensive playmaking isn't quite there the every once in a while I'll be like you know what I feel like last year he would have been like a quarter of a step faster on that I think there's just been more hesitance in this game overall and like to me with him that always starts with his shooting like he's just he just gets his own head about it and you know and whorfer is the other guy he's not played much for the Warriors played a little better lately talent range just hasn't been just continuing the tradition of guys who get traded and or leave Boston like somehow flatlining wherever they go next the only orange flag for Boston is they're shooting their number two in mid-range shooting and is in part of that is Jalen Brown being sensational is is any of that going to regress and they're 27th the defense of rebounding front line issues but that's been actually trending better and Derek White I'm going to do my all stars again later this week gonna do take a fresh look at it he's gonna rank way higher than he did a month ago that guy is a sensational two-way player that leaves us with Detroit and New York who played night who played tonight Troy not a back-to-back I'm a little and New York's been banged up I'm less excited about it and Detroit's missing Durin Leverts um some Tobias Harris some a little less excited about than I would be Detroit and and Bill nailed this last week in talking about trademark for the third Detroit to me is the most interesting trade deadline team not necessarily because they are super hungry to make a trade I actually don't think they are I just think they should and that all common sense signs point toward them making a trade or at least like nothing if they make a trade and it's it's always been Mark and it's the guy that we've all discussed it's not going to be that the jazz are keeping Mark and I think but I think I have been derelict and Bill reminded me of this with his pod last week and discussing sort of sub Mark and deals for them he mentioned Michael Porton Jr because clearly they need shooting and that sort of reason number one why they are an interesting trade team to me they just like they have this a Sar Thompson question of like can we close games with him can we even play for a single minute a Sar Thompson plus Javante Green plus one of our centers or is the spacing just not good enough um they have jade and ivy seems like a lost soldier now who might have some appeal as sort of a second chance lottery pick guy he's losing minutes to Dennis Jenkins he's Mark Assassar has come back and shot the hell out of it just feels like he's it's not going to happen at least this year and this year for me despite the fact that they're still young Durin is 21 years old Kate is still very young in his career on and on and on a Sar Thompson it's very young in his career missed a lot of last season despite the fact that they have one zero playoff series I just think this conference is so open and this team is the second best defensive team in the league they're rebound like all held their toughest hell to play against I think they should be going for it and this is just me talking like if I can get trade Murphy the third for Tobias Harris and some first round picks maybe three first round picks into swap and ivy I'm thinking really hard about doing that the three picks is a lot fine they're my picks I got to use them at some point the rubber could meet the road with a Sar Thompson and Isaiah Stewart because I can see particularly if it's New Orleans given Troy we've been Detroit and drafted a couple of those guys I could see one of those guys being asked for I'm not trading a Sar Thompson I just think like if you told me in a year a Sar Thompson's better than Tramer Fifth Third I wouldn't be surprised the potential is too high Isaiah Stewart's a tough one it's a tough one I just think this team should do something I think they need to do something they're number two on my list so clearly I think they could make the finals as is that's more about the east than it is about them I just have too many questions about their offense right now yeah I'll tell you this I think they would think really hard about not doing that trade they they really value Tobias Harris is like a veteran in the locker room and like I showed guys stuff if they're gonna trade them I think what you're saying though is probably the way they're gonna do it like I don't think they're gonna make some sort of move that doesn't contribute well to their future beyond stuff I don't think they're thinking I don't think they're thinking short term really at all there and I think they don't want to right now they kind of want to see what they have and I also think it a gargantuan salary for meant for more than a year or two is a problem for them because they're gonna have to pay during and they want I think they want to pay during given how he's played I I just I'd like it I'd like an offensive upgrade who can sustain on defense maybe a little bit more than Duncan Robinson can in a in a high level playoff series yeah I think they also want to see what they have in terms of paying these guys right because Duren is up after this year they were so far apart and contract negotiations this summer that like there weren't even really contract negotiations and then a sartonson you're gonna have to pay some amount to because he's a really good player and you kind of have to see like okay so so a couple games ago against Miami to buy his Harris is out and they start a lineup they've been using a pretty good amount this year and it's been pretty good with with Isaiah Stewart at the four next to Duren and they have a saw out there defense player the month Isaiah Stewart by the way what's his name he that dude can guard that dude that dude can guard Isaiah Stewart allowing 42% shooting on dunks and laps when he's the closest defender crazy by far by far the number one you know shot deterr or whatever we're gonna call it in the league and it was number one and that's that last year like he leads the league like by a mile in that he's been he's been awesome he's been blocking more shots this year like kind of like Isaiah Stewart is like a sneaky six man of the year candidate even though nobody thinks he fits that mold like if six man of the year somebody who just comes in and just fuck shit up in every way possible how about help by win help help you win basketball games yeah like he's just good he's just really good but that lineup is like okay Duren doesn't shoot threes added low mid range jumper that's nice doesn't shoot threes Isaiah Stewart has been shooting him more and shooting him better this year but he's not good enough to wear teams guard him when he's actually on the perimeter he doesn't help as a spacer in that sense even though he helps as a shooter a star not a shooter cade that's the weak point in his game like you're you're playing with a bunch of guys with just aren't shooters and the spacing I think is a concern in a playoff series I think they if we're talking about a playoff series the reason why I have them behind the next even though I think they've been kind of better than the next this year I'm concerned about next defense like they've not been kind of better they've been better they're 26 and nine they have the second best net rating in the east behind Boston they're ninth in offense and second in defense they have been flat out better than the next yeah and and the reason why I have them behind the next I'm sure you know they're going to be Detroit fans or Detroit people who disagree with me which is fine it's justifiable but the reason why I haven't behind is number one the shooting which I think that those kinds of flaws in a playoff series those kinds of flaws really tend to show up and those those warts get really really really painful in a playoff series and number two you know the thunder just want to title is a really young team but like to me they're the exception and experience matters they play the next really close in a playoff series last year if the ball doesn't go through Malik Beasley's hands if there isn't a terrible call made on what should have been a foul on Josh Hart at the end of game four like the persons might win that series they played a ridiculously close series and physical series against the next last year and I think that shaped them a lot but they're they're crazy physical team the defense is totally real the the the the tandem that they have with Durin and Stewart is is great Kate has been you know an MVP ballot candidate and Durin is I don't know I'd have to think about it more before I say he is the leader for MIP but he's certainly right up there like his game is is totally different than it was I think people discussed him is this awesome rim diving center when he first came in but the reality is now he's like he'll rush the ball up in transition he's hitting that little midi he's making passes to the corners out of the short roll and even out of the post he's scoring around the hoop and his pick and roll defense like teams used to run I talked to him about this recently for a story I'm working on that is not yet but the when he first came in the league like the MO on the pistons was like all right let's bring Jan Durn into space let's just pick on Jaylen Durn and I was talking to him about it I was like how did you react to that he was like it was the only he's like it's the only time in my life to that point I had ever been picked on like Jan Durn's this massive dude he was like I'd never been picked on before and a it just it sucked to have to deal with that kind of stuff he's made himself into a much better picking roll defender defender in space team defender rim protector just a just a way better player and he is going to make I don't know what he's going to get this summer he's going to make a lot of money he's going to make a ton of money well I've been a big general during the fan for a long time I'm not surprised he's awesome uh Ron Holland another guy that we we mentioned we did not mention is a kind of a non shooter look I they make up for their lack of shooting with physicality toughness rebound and cutting IQ all the stuff that translates to the playoffs all the stuff that translated to that series against the mix which proves something to themselves and proves something to me as an observer like there's something legit in the heartbeat of this team and about how they play that is problematic for the next and you mentioned that foul on a Tim Hardaway non foul on Tim Hardaway juniors corner three I just don't think their offense is good enough their spacing is going to for me to pick them to win three playoffs series but in this conference they could I'm this is the last thing I'm going to say about the distance I'm just I'm going to predict it today this is based on no intel in fact most of the intel is that they're going to be cautious at the trade deadline as you said for lots of different reasons I think they're making a trade I think they're making a consolidation win now trade I don't think it's going to be big I don't think it's just going to be big it may not even be trademark for the third big it may be something smaller than that I don't think this roster is going to look exactly the same after the trade deadline I don't think it's going to be like a little salary dump or this this like just a tiny little trade I think there's just they they have a lot of guys who can play and if I think there's got to be a three for one kind of trade that helps them and if I'm if and I would be more aggressive than trade you linked and probably will be in trade you linked and is smarter about me than basketball by leaps and bounds so I would defer to him I think this conference is there for the taking and that they could take it with one even like decent trade and it's there for the taking because the number one team on our list is the New York Knicks and they at this point with a defense that has fallen to 16 they are here now by default for me they they are here because someone has to be they are here because they are they were my pick to make the finals and I'm going to stick with it their offense is 1000% legit they're fourth in offense I think they're probably even better than that they've been a little banged up lately colette has cemented himself as a real bench guy yabu is looking a little better I don't know if I believe it McCullough has given him good minutes like they're getting enough stuff off the bench beside make bride is just makes every shot they've got a lot of tools in their toolbox and a lot of trade flexibility because they're like at 50 cents under the second apron or something like that but I have faith in their offense I have faith in their toughness and I have faith in their defense to be just good enough when heart in an obi and Robinson are all healthy and the coaching staff really decides how are we going to scheme carl Anthony towns out of pain on defense because what you're concerned about and what I'm concerned about is the teams that see him and drop defense and have guards and just like go go because he ain't stopping you and then they're going to scrunch in from everywhere else and stuff's going to open up for us and it's a concern we all know that the Brunson cat book ends of the defense is a concern there's only so many ways around it I do think the coaching staff probably has some cards in their pocket that they haven't played much of this season and that and that when they're healthy there's just enough between bridges heart in an obi Robinson just enough to get by but I feel less good about the nix is my finals pick today than I did two weeks ago a month ago but I got to pick someone and I'm picking the nix me too I'm concerned about more than just cat when it comes to the defense to be honest I mean I don't think their point of attack defense has been good at all and I think it's a real problem well they're small right they're small Brunson small colic small McBride is small like those guys all fight to varying degrees but they're small yeah 100% and the problem is when you have Brunson out there is along with cat obviously and you kind of have those two weak points defensively I mean your offense is going to be ridiculous but bridges has had to spend a lot of time as a point of attack defender and he's been great off the ball this year I think he's regressed a little bit throughout the season as a point of attack guy guarding so like his screen navigation is kind of regressed to where it was at last year in terms of the physicality on those on those sorts of plays Zach you want to hear a crazy stat sure I love their hard stats there are two teams in the NBA so normally defensively when you scheme things out you're going to be like okay we got you got to pick one you don't want to take away shots at the rim or you want to take away threes it's pretty damn rare you're going to take away both I know we're going to go and it's pretty damn rare you are going to give up both there are two teams in the NBA who are bottom 10 in the league in rim frequency and three point frequency can I guess the other one it's the nicks and something else I want to guess the other one I want to take I want to take a shot it gets any other one so I allow a lot of shots at the rim and I allow a lot of threes yeah my first instinct to a Charlotte but as I recall their shot location data is pretty good the execution is not so good oh boy I'm going to go the Kings I'm just going to default to the Kings that's probably who I would have guessed too it's the Pelicans okay bottom of the Sannigs kind of the same thing that's not a group you want to beat it the nicks are giving up tons of threes they're giving up tons of shots at the rim and I'm wondering like how do they fix that because they they have to fix that you can't be bad at both of those things and part of it is like okay Josh Hart's been hurtly Liam and Josh Hart plays the starting lineup has been good out there and he is such an unbelievably important glue guy for them in every single way and he's been shooting well this year which is just been he's he's out of a great year I think probably any of the better year than he did last year he's been awesome for them and I think he'll be back in a week to week something like that it's my it's my read on it um hope so maybe the answer is you play McBride more with the starters because McBride is kind of your best point of attack defender against smalls but if that's the case you're making the expense right exactly you're making the starting lineup smaller if you get rid of say Hart your rebounding is getting worse and that's a huge part of your identity uh and and on top of that like the McBride with the starters lineup has not been amazing for them um and you kind of have to figure that that part out the other part of it is that we keep saying like the nicks have to have Mitchell Robinson at full health when they have Mitchell Robinson at full health then like they're a different animal when they don't they're just they're not the same Mitchell Robinson hasn't been at full health I mean the rebounding is otherworldly it's it's gonna be per minute like he's pacing to have the best offensive rebounding season of all time I was looking at it a few days ago and he's averaging 12 offensive rebounds for a hundred possessions which means he's out rebounding 22 teams like it's it's insane the way he's able to shake up a game there but defensively he has not it's not that he's been bad he has not been bad but when Mitchell Robinson's at his best like what he was in the playoff run last year he's a all defense caliber sort of guy he's a really good pick and roll defender he's a good rim protector he's a great anchor he's got great instincts everybody saw that incredible play against Boston the playoffs last year where he's literally guarded all five guys on one possession and then ended it in a blockery took the ball away from jailing Brown at the end like he's just got talent and instincts just all over the place and that kind of play has not necessarily been there he's been in the lineup they say it's load management he's been dealing with ankle stuff like they got to have Mitchell Robinson healthy and we haven't seen that yet we haven't seen like true just a plus defense a plus rebounding Mitchell Robinson so far this year and they that that's a weapon they need like the Robinson cat one up seven been great no and I think it would be but I haven't I did too I actually liked Mike Brown trying to start it beginning of the season and then credit Mike Brown for being like you know what we need Josh hard Josh hard it's going to start look what they someone's got to win the east and we'll see and maybe there's a sneaky trade they can make despite their lack of financial flexibility I don't know what that would look like we get Nick's pistons tonight bull Celtics and hawks raptors relevant to this discussion what would be the most the most hilarious outcome would be the pistons beating the next by like 30 on a back to back and pistons fans being like see we should have been number one the bulls beating the Celtics and voodooch going off for 55 points and 20 rebounds and the hawks beating the raptors on the road with trea young like blocking a shot from Scotty Barnes at the buzzer to clinch the game if he plays um and then on Wednesday we get the the but the bucks don't play again till Wednesday I don't think they go at the warriors the schedule is about to get pretty hard for the bucks uh they've had one of the easiest schedules in the league they are going to catch a break though they have both their Denver games in the next couple of weeks when Yokech is going to be heard so we'll see what life looks like in the east uh in a couple of weeks Fred Katz of the athletic must read every time he writes cats and shoot podcasts on patreon produced by metz fan Andrew Claudio no wonder it's good despite the host being a Yankees fan Fred Katz you're the man you're the best thank you Zach all right that's it for today's Zach Loshow we'll be back later in the week probably on Thursday as usual with another episode thanks to Mike Billy and Jonathan on production thanks to the great Fred Katz for his time read all this stuff for the athletic thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Loshow have a great day must be 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 and over in president DC can tuck you or while me gambling problem call 1-800 gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-7897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat and can educate or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelp.line ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope and lie or text hope and lie in New York