How to Exit Your Business Without Selling It: The Real Jason Duncan on Beating Founder Burnout

I just want to tell you today's guest, he went from unemployed school teacher to building a multi-million dollar business casually. Like imagine losing your job and instead of spiraling, you build an empire. Must be nice, right? He's the guy teaching entrepreneurs how to stop being the employee in their own darn business and start living what he calls exit without exiting. This is a lifestyle. He's a founder of multiple companies, a mastermind behind the Exeter Club. He's a TEDx speaker. He's a podcast host. Basically, he is the man who said, I'm not here to grind forever. I'm here to win and then chill. Yeah, he's that guy. So if you've ever felt trapped in your business, burnt out or like, wait, did I build freedom or did I build my own prison? Today's episode is for you. let's dive deep into it right now. Today we are meeting not with the fake Jason Duncan. We are meeting with the real Jason Duncan. Dom, we have the real Jason Duncan here and we have met him in person. He was an excellent speaker on our stage just a few months ago at CreativeCon. I can't even tell you how many people raved about his speech at CreativeCon. He was one of our keynotes. Don't You still have those goosebumps and chills over the real Jason Duncan? The real Jason Duncan is the real deal, which gets me right into my first question, if you don't mind, Julie. I don't mind, but I thought we were going to talk a little bit about the real Jason Duncan. We're going to try. I want to know first, the real Jason Duncan, how do you spot a fake person? How do you know if you're real? How do we know that somebody's just fake out there? I think it's harder and harder to discover every day. because I think our society in the Western world has, we're propping up people for being fake. I mean, fake wealth, fake popularity, fake fame. Heck, you can't even tell what's real and what's true. What's fake on the internet with AI and deep fakes. Years ago, when I signed up for Instagram, I had to get a, I had to get a name and the only, my first and last name were already taken. So I just added the reel to the front of it and thought, okay, that I'll just do that. And later, much later, that became a personal brand that I just accepted and embraced. But the reason I did is because a personal branding expert on LinkedIn reached out to me and said, hey, I want to do a free consult, 30 minute consult on personal branding. And at the time I was just Jason Duncan, president and CEO of the company I had started. And so she did this branding consult and she said, hey, I've looked at all of your social media. I've looked at your YouTube, looked at everything. I believe that you should be the real Jason Duncan. And I said, I don't know what that means. And she goes, no, you know, that's your Instagram thing, but it should be all, it should be who you are. Just embrace that. So I went and bought the URL, the real Jason Duncan.com. I got a logo design and here we are. Now it's become a thing and offers an opportunity for people to talk about it, which is what we're doing right now. Excellent. No, we, we appreciate you. And Julie, I don't know if you noticed this, but Jason is an intense dude, like a little bit scary. I'm like, he's that real. He kind of scared me and made me step up my game. How about you, Julie? He is a hard person to read. Does he like me? Does he not like me? That was what I was thinking. So I don't know. Maybe I have to ask him right now. Does he like me or does he not like me? I love you, Julie. It's awesome. Well, you know, what's funny that you say that is that a long time ago, I was the president of the local chamber of commerce board. And I was also the head of the search committee to find our new CEO of the chamber. And we were going through a pretty intense selection process and we had entered, brought it down to a couple of candidates. And I particularly personally thought one candidate was better than the other, but as the president or the head of that committee, I knew it wasn't, it was not incumbent upon me to push my agenda. So I just, I played it pretty chill. Like I normally do. I didn't do anything different than I normally do, but I consciously said, I'm not going to position. And one of the guys who had been on the board forever was well-respected in community. And he came up to me after the whole thing was over. And ultimately the candidate that, the second candidate ended up getting it. And she ended up being amazing. She was much better probably than the dude I wanted. But he said, I don't ever want to play poker with you, Jason Duncan, because I could not tell ever what you were thinking or what you were doing. So you played it right. So it's funny that you say that. I get that a lot. And I don't know if that's a compliment or if it's, I need to be a little friendlier. I'm not sure which one it is. Yeah, I don't want to be playing a poker game with you. That is perfect. You have the perfect poker face. So I get that 100%. That is definitely a good analogy. We really want to break into with you about like these entrepreneurs start a business. And then as Julie alluded to, they end up in a cage. But before we do that, we're not letting you out of this, the real and fake yet. What do you do out there if you are who you are? You're authentic as can be. What do you do when you come across these people that are fake or are phony or you see, ah, that person's not really who I thought they were? What should we do? What should we do generally or what do I do personally? What's the real Jason Duncan do? I have no time for fake people. Zero. I know a lot of successful people and some people are successful in spite of who they are. I think we all kind of know what that might mean. And I just don't have time for those people. If you're not going to be real all the time, I'm not interested. And you know what? That also goes back to my first career out of high school and college. I was at pastoral ministry, and I also hated fakeness around that too. And it's not just Christians who can be fake. It's everybody. But that was the first place I began noticing as an adult is that these people act one way in one situation and a different way in a different situation. And I never, ever liked it. And because of that, I had a hard time as a pastor because I didn't play the pastoral political games, and I didn't stay very long anywhere at any one time because I just couldn't play the games. And I guess that's translated into the rest of my life. I don't have time for fake people. I don't have time for people that are playing political games, and I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine, and I'm going to act this way around now. I have no patience for that at all. And I see that so much in business. people are trying to climb the corporate ladder or trying to make deals and trying to do things to up-level their business and trying to make money. And I see it, they're doing it the wrong way. And being an entrepreneur, building a business, I always go back to the old-fashioned way. It is about making relationships. It's about doing the hard work. And I don't think people are doing it anymore that way. Don't you think so, Jay? Well, I think, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, And we're always looking for the easiest path, the path of least resistance. And I don't blame people. I mean, who would choose the hard path on purpose? Most people don't do that. But I do know, generally speaking, that if you choose hard early, it's easy later. If you choose easy early, it's hard later. And that's what we teach our kids. I mean, we're all parents here. I got adult kids that, you know, I can go back and say, well, look, if you'd have chosen a harder path back then, it would be easier now. But you chose it easy now, then, and look where you are now. and it's not just kids. It's, it's all of us. Entrepreneurship is the same way. If you want to choose something easy, it's probably going to be difficult later. So I think it's appropriate to want to do it easy, but we also have to understand that sometimes doing it the harder way, not a dumb way, but like just making it a little bit harder at first will probably pay off in the long run. What, what is it about our generation? Because I see that about our generation. I am not quite sure if you're Gen X or what generation you are, but I think we've made it so easy for our kids. We don't want them to feel pain. We don't want them to hurt. We don't want them to be real. And that bleeds into even building our businesses as entrepreneurs and business owners. Why are we doing this to our kids? Why are we doing this in business? Because we want everything to be easy. We don't want to feel the pain. And I think you probably have the right answer. You know, it's funny that you mentioned the kid thing and then in our generation, I look at the generation, like my kids are 25 and 23. And I look at what they're doing now compared to what I was doing at 25 or 23. I was married, had a kid. Well, I had my first kid when I was 25. My life was so different. And my wife and I have been what I think are, you know, I would consider good parents. I mean, we did good things. We weren't neglectful, nor were we super strict. But I would look back and look back and say, well, we made it way too easy in too many areas. And why? I think the why is because Gen X kids grew up we were the first and I think the only real generation that was latchkey kids Like we came home and like we had to fend for ourselves You got home there was no cell phone no internet no nothing You showed up you unlocked the door yourself You went in and you had to do all their everything by yourself You had to stay alive until an adult arrived. And that was our generation. We had to figure that crap out. And because we went through those hard things, we want to make it easier for our kids. We want to make it easier for them. And I think the same is true in business. We see what maybe our parents went through in the corporate world. And so we want to go out and do it the easy way as an entrepreneur. And that's just, it's not going to work. It's going to turn out to our detriment. Jason, Julie, I'm loving this conversation. And you have me thinking about, there used to be, they talked about helicopter parents where they were over top of like watching every decision. And then nowadays they say there are lawnmower parents and the lawnmower parents and maybe lawnmower business owner tries to run over every obstacle for the child. So they're not just looking from above. There's no more obstacles anymore. So what say you about that, Jason? Yeah, I can think back without getting too personal. I can think back to one decision that my wife and I should have made about one of our kids. And at the time it was one of those moments where like, we don't know what to do. We think we should do this, but we ultimately didn't do what we thought we should have done at the time. And I try not to live with regret, but that's one of those I look back and go, doggone it, we missed it. That's one where we should have said, absolutely not. This is not going to happen. And we're not, this is not good. And our kid would have hated us for a while, right? We all get over that. But we chose not to do it because of what might have happened emotionally. And we regret it. We think that was a bad mistake and it may led to a lot of other things. Now, ultimately, everything's fine. I don't want to position either one of my children as derelict society because of a dumb decision their parents made. That's not true. They're both good kids, got good jobs, are doing good things in society. But man, I look back and go, those are different decisions I would have made if I could do it all over again. Actually, I had a moment of nostalgia. I was driving home from, I was actually leaving Detroit, heading to the airport to fly back home. I was visiting a client of mine and a song came on the radio. It's something about in that song overwhelmed me with nostalgia about when my kids were little. And I don't know if you've ever experienced this or not, but like, I, and I'm not an emotional person, but everything within me, like what I'm like, what the heck is happening right now? I just felt it all well up. And I thought for the first time ever, like you could offer me a billion dollars or the option to go back and do all that again, which one would I choose? I'd go back and do it all again. I'd want to go back and start with my kids young and go through it again. Knowing what I am now, I would do it so much differently. Jason, I came into this thinking we were going to go another direction, but you have me thinking about how sappy I've gotten over the years. Do you think you're becoming more emotional and softer over the years? No, I just think that I'm susceptible to to the nostalgia. I mean, the older you get, the more you contemplate life. You know, I'm 51. So I contemplate. Oh, you're a baby. You're 51. So I'm like, I contemplate what it would have, you know, we're, I'm in the second half and what would I do differently if I were given the opportunity? And honestly, for most of my life, you said a billion dollars or, and then filled in the blank. I don't care what was in the blank. I would have chosen a billion dollars. And now I'm to the point where like a billion dollars or go back and do things differently. Like date my wife again and get married again and have kids again. Like I choose that every time because I think those are things that are more important than the money. And do I want a billion dollars? Sure. That'd be great. But I think life satisfaction for me would be better if I could go back and date again, date my wife specifically. I'm not meaning. Oh, date again. It's not what I mean, but like go through that experience. Cause we met on a blind date when we were 15 to 16 years old. And we dated for four years and got married at 20 and 19. And I would love to go back and experience that all over again, because those were some of the greatest years of my life. And I didn't realize it at the time. And now at 50 something years old, I look back and go, wow, that was pretty cool. But I don't remember it. I remember it, but I really don't remember it. You know what I mean? To understand that you started so early, 19 and 20, and living in that present moment. And one thing this really does and doesn't have anything to do with entrepreneurship, but I try to live and die by this sword every day I wake up. Am I living my life knowing that I am living my life, that this could be the very last breath I take? Am I positioned to live my life with integrity and on my deathbed? Will this be something that I even care about? And I'm not sure I care about half of the stuff I do every single day. You're even saying that you wish that you could go and relive those days with your wife and your children. That gives me perspective. And that even talks about the exit plan and how you always think about leaving your business and what's important and what you want to do and not being the boss of everything you're doing. Like what is truly important? Because half the time, I don't even remember that. I'm just like knee deep and okay, Dom, let's get this out. Dom, we got to do this. Dom, we got to sign this contract. Dom, we got to do this. Knowing what's important, how to delegate and how to create that exit plan that is so important. Can you dive deep into that? Because while we're talking nostalgia, we also need to talk about the future. When we started our businesses, I would bet millions of dollars that people who started their businesses wanted a few things that they're all probably aligned. And that is we wanted a little bit more freedom in our life and we want more money in our life. And the reason we want the more money and we want the freedom is to do what we want to do when we want to do it, with whom we want to do it. And the irony of entrepreneurship is that we become prisoners to the thing that we built. Rather than the thing setting us free, it's actually captivated us. And we believe the lie that says that this is the way it's supposed to be. You have to put in the 40, 50, 60 hours a week. Grind, baby, grind. And that's what we are told on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube is that that lifestyle is what entrepreneurship is about. And I wholly reject it. Now, I would say that if I was a grinder, would I be worth more money? Yeah. Would I have more money today and like make more money annually, annual income for sure. But at what cost, like what would I have exchanged? Well, this year alone in 2026, I have 90 days scheduled off. Like I'm going to go somewhere. So a whole quarter, not all at once, of course, but I have a whole quarter. Now, could I exchange those 90 days for an extra 200 grand or 300 grand in income that I could make if I stayed home during those 90 days? I could, and I could probably make that happen. But for what? Like if I can't go and ride my motorcycle, like I did this past week, I had five days, went with a bunch of friends, rode motorcycles for five days and it came up. What would I spend the money on if I couldn't go do what I want to do? So business ownership, the purpose of business ownership is not to own the business. It's so that the business can provide the lifestyle for you and your family that you actually want to live. When did you get this awareness? So you have it now. Was there a moment in the business where you're like, wait a minute, I need a pivot? That's a good question. And I think it's fair to ask. And I would say that my experience might be a little different than most people's because because I think I was raised with a really good sense of, I don't like to use the word priorities because I don't believe in them the way most people talk about it, but for lack of better terminology, the priorities, what's most important in life. And so all throughout the decade that I was leading the company that I started as an unemployed school teacher, we were doing good, and I did work a lot of hours. But I, of course, my wife and kids would be the ones to actually ask about this, but I don't think it was to the neglect of them. I think I still made time for them, even though there were times that I chose business over family and kids in an unhealthy way. So when did I realize it is the question. So in 2019, our business did a million dollars in EBITDA and I thought, okay, it's time to sell the company. And I went to my business coach and I said, hey, let's do this. And he said, you can't. Well, you mean I can't. We have a million, like a million profit this year. So why can't we sell it? He goes, because it's too dependent upon you. And I didn't believe it at first, but that was when I started thinking about, what does this mean too dependent on me? I don't understand. I have 20 employees. We're doing projects all over the country. Things are going well. And here's how I discovered that he was true, that he was right. In 20 but actually that was in 2018 And then in 2019 I go through a partnership divorce with a business partner And for that whole year I was fighting that battle So for a whole year, I was spending maybe 75% of my energy and attention on that issue and only 25% on running daily operations. And guess what happened at the end of 2019? We lost a million dollars. So I had a $2 million swing only because of my attention and what I was paying attention to. And I think that is when I realized, holy crap, I built this business the wrong way. I built it solely upon me and my heartbeat, my ability to show up and make it run. And where I thought I was great, you know, I got a million dollars in profit. Things are great. I'm a millionaire. It's wonderful. No, I was a prisoner to my own success. And I said, I will never do this again. I just want to ask a question. Is that ego-based? Because I see that ego-based. sometimes I feel that, oh, I have to be doing everything because I do it the best. Is that because of my ego? Tell me the truth, Jason, the real Jason Duncan. Yes. I call it the hero syndrome. And the way I define it is that we as entrepreneurs, we put the cape on and we show up, we've saved the day because we're the best at it. We started this thing. We know it better inside and out, better than anybody else. And as a result, we never take the cape off. It stays on permanently. And all the employees are trained to call in the hero when the problem happens and they don't learn themselves. Kind of like going back to parenting, right? We parent, hero parent them and we don't turn it into where they make the decisions on their own. And so yes, it is ego and I call it the hero syndrome. I have some thinking to do. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Jason. That's good stuff, Jason. I've asked people before that I felt were riding in on a white horse if they were able to give that up. And one of the people one time said, I don't know. They really, they knew they were riding in on their white horse and they liked the feeling they got when they saved the day. Who doesn't? Yeah, for sure. I mean, you just got to think about it from a bigger perspective. Let's say you have 20 employees and let's say the average American home has three people in it, three, three and a half people in it. We'll call that 60 people just to do quick math. So 60 human beings are dependent upon your heartbeat. And you've got your business structured to where if your heartbeat stops, they all lose their jobs. Okay, so you feel good that you saved the day. Who flipping cares? You are endangering the financial wherewithal of 60 people. And it's selfish. So it's hero, it's white horse, it's ego, it's all this stuff. But it's selfish. Let's call it what it is. And the lie that we believe is that it is good and it's noble to be the hero of your business. And in fact, it's quite the opposite. The real Jason Duncan, I've seen him speak on stage and he absolutely nailed it. This is the feeling that you got as a member of the audience. Like he was talking directly to my soul. So I felt that then. And speaking to you today in this interview, I feel it, man. So well done. He's talking to me right now, Dom. I'm rethinking a lot of things. And that means, Dom, I'm passing a lot of stuff to you. So speaking of things we got to pass, Jason, this is a time of the show where trumpets play. And we go to a segment of the show called Jewel's Rules. And this is where we ask Julie something from media as a mom of four, as a publicist, as an event creator. She weighs in on things. and we get her opinion because she's an expert of experts. So today she set me up here a little and gave me, so I'm looking over at a different screen, and it's really she wanted to know about real or fake today. We're going to ask, is it real or is it an illusion? Julie, you want to start this game? I think since Jason can really tap into real or fake, that we can take it a little deeper. Dom is going to ask the question and I'm going to answer it even though I've seen it, but I don't even know that. I don't know what I'm going to say, but I'm going to need a lifeline because I need help. Which will be Jason Duncan and he is going to have to help me answer the questions. And Julie should know me by now that even though she gave me a blueprint, I'm not going to use it. I wrote out everything for him. I don't plan to use it. I'm going to do my own thing. Oh, he did. He's going to change it up. Number one, but we'll go a little bit. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, is it a fairytale romance or an elite brand synergy? Okay, so I'm going to answer this. And now it's a country singer who I believe is from Nashville, who I need a lifeline from. And I know someone here who's in Nashville, so I'm going to get a lifeline. But I'm going to say this is a real love. And I'm going to ask my lifeline as well, the real Jason Duncan. You're asking me if Swift and Kelsey are real or fake? Yeah. Oh, this fake. 100%. Oh, dropping it like it's hot. 100%. That's my opinion. Also, don't give a flying rats. You know what? I don't care. This is why we got you on here. Okay, we're going straight. Then I'm leading to Jason. You're breaking all the Swifties' hearts. My daughter is one of the biggest Swifties in the world. She would cringe at what I just said, but, you know. I'm just going on past performances indicative of future. That's what I'm saying. Then I'm going straight to Jason with this one, Julie. What would you say, Dom? Are they real or fake? It's real as can be. Hooray! Come on, Taylor Swift's been part of the pop culture for all these years, and Travis Kelsey's great. Real, it's love. I'm in. I'm swept in this whole romance. Now I'm switching it up and Jason's going first just because I want to, I think we're going to get a good answer from him. Follower counts, real or fake, does it matter? The real Jason Duncan, what do you have to say about that? I don't think this is a, so if the question is real followers versus fake followers, does it matter? Is that what you're asking? Yeah, go. I think, I think there's, I think, yes, it matters, but I think it matters in the way that I think it matters in a way that people don't really think about. So if, if I, if you looked up somebody and found out they had 322 followers and they're supposed to be a $25,000 speaking fee to show up, you'd be like, what? what? And all 322 people might be 100% real and fans, like fans of fans, 100% real. But perception is that they're not good enough for 25 grand to pay them to come on stage. Then you look at the same person who has, let's say 100,000 followers, and they have a 25,000 hour speaking fee. You don't even question whether they're real or not. Like, yeah, they got 100,000 followers. And what do we know? We know that probably 70,000 of those either are either not real bots or completely unengaged, disengaged, but does it matter? Not really. So perception is really a big thing. And I call it contrived authenticity, contrived authenticity. I think we show up, we contrive ourselves in a way to be authentic based on the rules of the game and the rules of the game say, if you don't have followers on social media, you're probably not, you're not the person we want to bring in true or false, but that's, that's the way I think it works. Julie, you on the way in? Well, it's funny because when we were looking for our stage, we did not at all look at how many social media followers you had. I don't know if Dom did, but I did not look at all. I went on referrals. I went on referrals and I think a lot of social media is purchased. Number one, social media is engineered and authority is, we all have authority and it is all about perception, but we can buy perception right now. So I believe that it is getting back to what you're doing, Jason, and what Dom and I are trying to do is in real life experiences and proving our authority as perception. Because I think everybody is confused these days by like fake perceptions that are on their AI, social media, and all these things. So that is one thing when Dom and I started Creative Con, people have asked, can we do, can you do streaming? Can you do Zoom? Can you do lives? We won't do it because we want people to be alive because there is something so powerful. And then you create your authority there and then you can create your own perception. So there you go. Sorry, that went off the rails. I'm going to move you guys into the lightning. See I can tell Can you tell by his face Jason I moving you to the lightning round That what going on now Now it is officially the lightning round Oh this is lightning One answer Julie solo quiz over so it lightning round A-list celebrities becoming TV stars, becoming A-list celebrities. Julie? Give me an example, Dom. Kim Kardashian, all of a sudden she's a reality star and now she's an A-lister? Real. it is perception again if it if people like her and it's real then it's real jason's itching like he almost wants to weigh in on that so he wants to kick someone's tail he's out okay i've less care about her than the other one i want to hear wait wait i want to hear who annoys jason duncan the most taylor swift kim kardashian who is the influencer that annoys jason duncan the most because Of those two? No, anybody. Oh. You can tell he just does not like the subject at all. I don't know. I put so little energy into thinking about those people. I couldn't even give the energy to rank them. But of those two, I'm a much bigger fan of Taylor Swift than Kim Kardashian. At least Taylor Swift is producing something of value for our society. This has nothing to do with this, but I'm just going to add this. Will Smith. You remember Will Smith? Oh, yeah. Clap on the face. illusion. Is he a good guy or not? Have you guys seen the show? Pole to Pole? Have you seen his new show? It is National Geographic. You can get it on Prime. It is excellent how he is recreating his brand and he is recreating the illusion that he's a good guy. It is fantastic. He is traveling from the South Pole to the North Pole and he is talking about all his transgressions. It is fantastic how he is doing this. That just reminded me about Will Smith. But you guys have to watch. I want to jump in on this because for somebody real like Jason Duncan, I've seen Will Smith slap a guy. I've seen him lie in public many a times. I've seen him be a person, tell me one thing and be another person. He's done it too many times. So I feel no matter how good his PR team is that he's lied to me too many times. So that's why I'm out on that one. Jason, after you weigh in on this, then we're moving to some final tips from you for people that want to exit their business. You got anything there? So about Will Smith? Yeah, about him being phony, fake, whatever. So I was a huge fan for many years. Had all his tapes, listened to all his music. Yeah, tapes, folks, tapes, not CDs, not MP3s, tapes. And big fan of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, loved that show. As a matter of fact, I even watched the new revised version that came out on, I don't know, Peacock or whatever it was that came out. It was much darker, but it was kind of neat too, only because I was a fan of Will Smith. But then, man, I think he lost his way. I think he lost his way. And over the past, I don't know how many years, decade or so, he just lost his way. I don't know what caused it. And I pray and hope that he's coming back, coming back into reality, coming back to who he really is. because he always seemed like a genuine guy early on and I think he lost his weight. I don't know if it's Jada's fault or the producer's fault or Kid's fault or whatever, but hopefully he's coming back. I haven't seen Paul DePaul, heard about it. I would be interested in watching it. Redemption, that's a redemption song, right? Yeah. And everyone is entitled to redemption. Everyone deserves a second chance, I believe. So it's a great show. Dom, you're taking this to the next level. Jules rolls over. Jules rolls over. Now it's time to go to Jason Duncan. Jason, as the teacher that then had made the millions, and now help us with the exit. Help some entrepreneurs. Give us some tips before a final takeaway. Let's go first. Give us a couple tips for business owners trying to get out, trying to spend more time with their families like we talked about earlier in this interview. What can we do? First thing is you've got to go back to what we talked about earlier, the hero syndrome. You just got to recognize it. Awareness is the key to recovery. Understanding that you are acting as a hero and you shouldn't be. Understanding that is the first step to anything that you're going to do positive in your business. You've got to understand that. Then I would say from a practical standpoint, you've got to build what we refer to in our XOS methodology that we teach in my mastermind, a three-tier view of your org chart. So you have your delivery team. These are the people that are doing the things, delivering the service to your client. Then you have your support squad, the stuff that handles the back office, all the things that need to be going there. And then the third layer is your A-team. And the A-team is the people that make decisions. You don't just delegate tasks. They make decisions for you. And as you go through those three first stages of the XOS methodology, it starts setting you free to then pay attention to automation and systemization. And the lie that we've been taught by so many business coach gurus is they say, well, you just got to put systems in place. Well, look, if you put systems in place and you haven't put these other things and layers in place first, you're just going to have systems that still rely on you. So I think the biggest tip is get your mind right, understand where you're at, got to get rid of the hero syndrome. That's step one. Then we can start talking about delegating to these other people, whether it's your delivery team, your support squad, or your A team. That's good stuff. Do you have a place where we can get a hold of the real Jason Duncan? Like you're out there doing things, where can we find you? And do you have a final takeaway home run for us or something like that? I would welcome people to go check me out online. Just look up the real Jason Duncan, no matter where you're at, whether it's Shabby, Chad, GBT, Claude, Perplexity, Grok, Notebook, LM, Google, wherever you just type in the real Jason Duncan, you're going to find me and follow me on Instagram or LinkedIn. You can subscribe to my newsletter. It's called What's Real with the Real Jason Duncan. I send out every Wednesday morning and I deal with lies that you have been told that you believe and truths that you haven't heard of yet. I am so obsessed. And we were so lucky to have Jason, not only on our stage at Creative Con, he, he delivered tears. He delivered cheers. He was incredible. And just having him here has me rethinking, honestly, about everything I've been doing pretty much for the past five years. And I'm sorry, Dom, like it's going to affect you a lot. So apologies. But he is a consummate professional, an amazing speaker. And if you need someone on stage, he is your man. And here is the truth. Exiting your business isn't about selling it. It's really about freeing yourself from the business. It's about getting your mind right first. It's about becoming the one that knows that you're still operating from fear control and releasing yourself from the fear and control, just like Jason said, and understanding what the reality is. What's that true reality? What is leadership and what you're truly attached to? What Jason Duncan brings is the conversation has to be different. It cannot be the same thing. He did not talk about business strategy. He's talking about identity because the goal isn't about just building a business. It's about building a life you don't need to escape from. This is what I learned from him today. I want you guys to check out the show notes. If you loved this episode of the Creative Entrepreneur Podcast as much as we did, you need to check the show notes, follow him, reach out to him, get him on your stage as well. You love Dominic Domowski and me, your favorite entrepreneurs of all time. Make sure you share this podcast, rate, review, and subscribe to it. And until we meet again, I want you all to keep creating. If you run a business, you know the real challenges in getting the leads. It's remembering to follow up with them before they forget who you are. That's where Keep comes in. Keep is a leading sales and marketing automation platform built for small businesses just like many new. It helps you capture leads follow up instantly so you're not staying up till one in the morning trying to follow up on things you've been forgetting it helps you send personal messages automate your marketing so nothing slips through the cast instead of juggling all these reminders keep and help put your business growth on autopilot you sell more follow faster and turn leads in to lifelong customers check us out at www.keap.com with a forward slash C-R-E-8-T-I-V-E. That's keap.com forward slash creative. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.