Why are octopuses so smart?

Today's episode is sponsored by Bombas. It's the time of the year we think about, hmm, what am I going to do differently this year? Maybe I'm going to read more. Maybe I'm going to work out more. Maybe I'm going to learn a new skill, but really at the top of my list is number one to get comfy. And that's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go-tos. The all-new Bombas Sport socks are engineered with sport-specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, and all sport. This year I'm going to walk my dog more, longer walks, better walks, and these socks are going to help me stay comfy while I do it. And for all my other resolutions like going to the bookstore and picking out more books to read, I'm going to wear my new squishy Saturday suede slip-on shoes, which are super comfortable for being on the go. Head over to bombas.com slash family26 and use code family26 for 20% off your first purchase. That's b-o-m-b-a-s dot com slash family26 code family26 at checkout. Hi friends. You might have heard that Bark, Sandin, and I are on the road this spring with Brains on Live. We've been to several cities so far and it has been so much fun. Our next two stops are Atlanta and Fort Lauderdale. That's at the end of March. And then we just announced that we added Lawrence, Kansas in May and Columbus, Ohio in June. We're also heading to Chattanooga, Durham, Milwaukee, Portland, Buffalo, and Ann Arbor, Michigan. I hope you'll be able to join us at one of those shows. We can't wait to see you to get tickets and get more information. You can head to BrainsOn.org slash events. That's BrainsOn.org slash events. You're listening to the Brains On Universe. You're listening to Brains On. We're serious about being curious. Hey friends. Rosie DuPont here. Who's got two arms, one heart, and is filling in for Molly Bloom today? This gal. And who has eight arms, three hearts, and is the star of today's episode? The octopus. There are so many cool things about this creature. I'm just going to give you a few spoiler free teases. Donut shaped brains. Daring escapes. Arms that can think. And tongue teeth. Other animals than us play in ways that we don't really understand because we really don't know all the things that they can do. Curious to know more? You'll find out what all that means coming up. You're listening to Brains On. Part of the Brains On Universe. I'm Rosie DuPont, and I'm excited to be guest hosting this week. My co-host today is Izumi from Lethbridge, Canada. Hi Izumi. Hi Rosie. Brains On features real science explained by real people, something that's getting less and less common these days. If this show matters to you, please support it so we can keep making it. The good news, we make it totally worth your while. Join SmartyPass and get the glow of someone who powers our shows. Plus, you get access to totally ad free episodes, bonus content, and invites to special online hangouts with our crew. You can even get a personal message from Molly Bloom. Just head to BrainsOn.org to join SmartyPass. Thanks! Now, Izumi, today we're talking about boneless and brainy octopuses and answering this question from Benji. Hi, I'm Benji from Houston, Texas. My question is, why are octopuses so smart? An excellent question. So why do you think that octopuses are interesting animals? Well, octopuses have a very different body than us. And like, well, they're slimy. You're saying that you're not slimy? I don't think I am. Okay, I believe you. Is there anything about their bodies that you think would be kind of cool to have for a day? They don't have any bones. Right. What would you do if you didn't have any bones? Like skip class by going into a very small corner. That sounds like a great day. What would you do in the corner? Steal as many snacks as I could and read as many books as I could. That sounds like a great day. And I think I would like to elect to be boneless and eating snacks and reading books too. So octopuses are totally amazing and there are around 300 different species and they come in all sorts of sizes. The hairy octopus is the smallest octopus in the world. It's about the size of a paperclip and it weighs the same as a single raisin. And it looks like a fuzzball. Hairy octopuses are covered in hair like skin. It helps them blend in with the shaggy seaweed that's all over the places they live. Then there's the giant pacific octopus. They're the biggest octopuses in the world. They weigh up to 100 pounds which is like the weight of a small refrigerator. It's about 14 feet from one tentacle tip to another. Which means it's about as long as a car. Whoa. I wish we could see one in person. Come in. Is that an octopus? I think it's home tank around. Yes, it's me. Octavia octopus and I'm hungry. Do you by chance have any crabs? Oh, I don't think so. Well guess I'll try another room. But wait, we're recording a show about octopuses today Octavia. You should stick around. I'm Rosie and this is Izumi. Well I do love talking about myself. Hmm. No k. I'm in. Is this my mic? Sure. Just let me push it closer to your tank there. Brilliant. Okay, so what do you want to know? Wow. Okay, this is very exciting. A real octopus here in the studio. Okay, let's see. How about we talk about octopus bodies. They're so cool and so different from the human body. It's true. You have to go back hundreds of millions of years to find a creature that's related to both octopuses and humans. It was a tiny, worm-like animal that lived on the ocean floor. Yeah, humans and octopuses are not very close cousins, which means we're built totally differently. For example, we octopuses have three hearts. And blue blood. And a donut-shaped brain. Okay, that donut-shaped brain fact is blowing my brain-shaped brain right now. I know. Plus, octopus esophaguses, or the tube used to swallow food, go straight through the donut hole in the brain. Right. My brain has to stretch when I swallow food. I definitely want crabs for lunch. Maybe you can order me some on those phone thingies after this interview. You know the ones that are all beep-bop-bop-boop-bop-a-beep-ing when you touch them? Maybe. Oh, here's another cool octo fact. Octopuses have hooked beaks sort of like parrots. The beak is tucked in the middle of their arms on the underside of their bodies. Oh, and have you seen my tongue? Baaah. What about it? Octopus tongues are covered in row after row of microscopic teeth. They're so small you can't see them with the naked eye. Whoa. We use our spiky tongues to scrape and grind food so it goes down easy. Cool. I know. But you know what I'm really curious about? Your arms. First off, thank you for saying arms, not tentacles. Us octopuses do not have tentacles. Thank you very much. Right. Squids have tentacles, not octopuses. Octopuses are skinnier than arms and only have suckers on the ends. Octopus arms have suckers all the way up. And your suckers can taste things. Yes. Each of my eight arms contain brain cells. Call me Smart Arms Octavia. Which brings us back to our central question. Why are octopuses so smart? Octavia, why are you so smart? Well, I don't know. Things just come easily to me. Hmm. We need a better answer. Then you should talk to Dr. Jennifer Mather. She's an expert on octopus intelligence and behavior. Now, I've just got to find some crabs. I'm famished. Oh, I'll get the door. Bye Octavia. See you soon. Bye. We'll have to call up Dr. Mather and ask her all about octopus brains. But first, Izumi, it's time for the… Mystery Sound. Izumi, are you ready to hear the mystery sound? Mm-hmm. Okay. Here it is. What do you think, Izumi? At first, I think it sounded like Lego. Uh-huh. Any other guesses? I think I'm going to say something to Lego. I honestly think Lego is quite a good guess. Do you want to hear it again? Or… Mm-hmm. Okay, let's hear it one more time. All right. Are you sticking with Lego or do you have a new guess, Izumi? Sticking with Lego. Okay. I think it is the sound of Lego too. I agree with you. I think you're right. You'll hear it again and get another chance to guess after the credits. So stick around. Hey friends, we're making a new mystery sound extravaganza with a twist. This time, we're only going to feature sounds found in nature, and we want to hear from you. Get outside and record a mystery sound made by the natural world. Animals, water, the weather, whatever. Tell us what makes the sound in your recording and send it to us. Izumi, what's one of your favorite sounds found in nature? I have two. One of them is the sound of a waterfall. Mm-hmm. And the other is a thunderstorm. Oh yeah. What do you love about thunderstorms? Um, so I like it when I hear the thunder and the rain on the roof. Does it make you feel certain way? It makes me feel calm. Yeah, really, really, really relaxing. Well, share your nature sounds by heading to brainson.org. While you're there, you can also send us your drawings and questions. Keep listening. Today's episode is sponsored by Bombas. It's the time of the year we think about, hmm, what am I going to do differently this year? Maybe I'm going to read more. Maybe I'm going to work out more. Maybe I'm going to learn a new skill, but really at the top of my list is number one to get comfy. And that's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go-tos. The all-new Bombas Sport Socks are engineered with sport-specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, and all sport. This year, I'm going to walk my dog more, longer walks, better walks, and these socks are going to help me stay comfy while I do it. And for all my other resolutions like going to the bookstore and picking out more books to read, I'm going to wear my new squishy Saturday suede slip-on shoes, which are super comfortable for being on the go. Head over to bombas.com slash family26 and use code family26 for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash family26. Code family26 at checkout. Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh, brains on. You're listening to brains on. I'm Izumi. And I'm Rosie. Today we're talking all about octopuses. So far we've learned that there are over 300 species of octopus out there. And their bodies are really different from human ones. They have three hearts, blue blood, super tiny teeth on their tongue. And brain cells in their arms. But we still haven't answered today's question. Why are octopuses so smart? To learn more, let's call up Dr. Jennifer Mather. She's a professor of psychology at the University of Lethbridge. And she knows a ton about octopus brains. Hello. Hi, Dr. Mather. This is Rosie. And Izumi, we have some questions for you about octopuses. Do you have time to chat? Yes. First, how does an octopus's brain work? Well, the brain works the way our brain works. It's got cells called neurons that connect with each other. And of course it's got cells in the eyes and cells in the skin that send information in, right? And it's got cells that send information out to the arms to move. So it's kind of the same thing as us. It's a simple processing system. But one thing that's special about the octopus is that it's a very big brain, relatively speaking. I mean, it's not as big as ours, but it's bigger than the brain of a lot of other animals. If they have brain cells in their arms, does that mean each arm can think? Does the main octopus's brain tell the arms what to do? I'm afraid there's people on social media that say, oh, octopuses have nine brains. They have a brain in the middle of the body and they have a brain in each arm. And the answer is no, afraid not. It is the brain that tells the arms what to do. But the difference between our brain and the octopus's brain is the octopus only tells the arms kind of the general commands. Okay, it says, okay, I want you to reach out towards that crab. And it tells arm number one left and one right that it should grab them. And then the arms work out the details of how to bend the arms, how to extend the arms, how to aim the suckers and the suckers, how to grab the crab and how to bring it back. What are some of your favorite examples that show how smart and curious octopuses are? One of my favorite examples came from the Seattle Aquarium because the octopus there, this is one of the giant Pacific octopuses. It's active in nighttime and it doesn't like bright lights to be on. Okay, but it turned out that night lights so that the keepers could see what was going on at the light. They have to be some lights and it turned out that one of these lights was over the top of the octopus's tank. So the octopus was in bright light and it didn't like it. And it reached up its flexible funnel, it squeezed hard with its flexible mantle, it put a jet of water towards the light and it shorted out the light. Oh, I was quite happy, I guess. I kind of like that one. In your research, you found out that octopuses can play. What does it look like when an octopus plays? Well, what happened with octopus playing is I set up this study with my colleague in the Seattle Aquarium, Roland Anderson, because we thought, oh, it would be fun to find out. And we actually set it up accidentally perfectly because we had the octopus in the wrong tank and we had the water intake coming from the far side of the tank from the octopus. So the octopus was kind of out to the right and the water was drifting in from the left. And we did what, it's always been one of my favorite studies. We put a floating pill bottle on the top of the water. What happened is the water flow picked up the pill bottle and brought it out to the octopus. Now the octopus, when it breathes, it has a flexible funnel, a siphon, which pushes things. And so what happened is the bottle floated to the octopus and the octopus went like breathing out and the water went back to the water intake. And then it came drifting back to the octopus and the octopus went again and it went out to the water intake. And once wouldn't be enough because you think, well, I was just really trying to get rid of it. But one of the octopuses did that 12 times in a row. And I think probably other animals than us play in ways that we don't really understand because we really don't know all the things that they can do. But this one was like something we did. And so we could really see that this was play. Do octopuses have different personalities? Oh, octopuses have hugely different personalities. They probably have as many different kinds of personalities we do except that they're not social. So we would never find an octopus that went to a hug at other octopus. But one of the things I noticed really is that some of them are very sort of outgoing and pushy and some of them are very shy. So we had a test when we were looking at it for personalities where we took this bristly test tube brush and we put it over the side of their body. It didn't hurt them. We just pushed against them, but it felt nasty. And their reaction to that ranged all the way from one of them that went, and pushed a jet of water and inked a smooth scream and tried to go to the other side of the tank. That was a very shy octopus. But we had one octopus that reached out to its arms, grabbed the brush and tried to pull it away. That was a very aggressive outgoing octopus. How does octopus intelligence compare to human intelligence? Well, that's a difficult question. It's nothing like a smart as us. They're curious. They can manipulate things well. They can remember. They've got lots and lots of different kinds of learning. But they don't have a language. They don't write books. They don't teach each other because octopuses aren't social. They don't like each other. Okay. So in that sense, it's a very individual intelligence. How long have you been studying octopuses? When I was a kid, I grew up near the seashore. I found the seashore fascinating and all the animals there. And I thought, I'm going to be a marine biologist, animal scientist. And when I went to university, that really was 50 years ago. But I had studied snails and collected shells. And so I said, okay, mollusks, that's what I want. And then I discovered of all the mollusks, it was the octopuses and the squid and the cuttlefish that had the most behavior. And so I said, okay, that's what I want. There I go. And I've been doing it ever since. It's never been boring. Never. Thanks for talking with us, Dr. Mayther. Yeah, bye. Goodbye. Nice talking to you. Bye. I never thought about how octopuses have different personalities. And I loved hearing how some are shy and some are more outgoing, sort of just like humans are. Did anything surprise you? I was surprised that octopuses actually know how to play. Right. I know. The example that Dr. Mayther gave was an octopus sort of like playing with a thing, like a ball. Yeah, like the pill bottle bouncing back and forth and back and forth. Yeah, just like throwing a ball with your friends or like throwing a tennis ball up against a wall over and over again. So it's like a really recognizable style of play. I thought that was cool. While all that cool octo-knowledge settles into our brains, let's check the mail bag. This is the time when we dig into all the cool letters, drawings, jokes, recipes and other fun things you send us. Mark, what have we got today? Hey there, Rosie. Get away from this. I love the smell of mail. Whether it's a woodsy whiff of the paper letter or the crisp scent of the code that makes up an email. So fun. Let's see what we have today. Oh, this smells like a good one. Hi, this is Ishan from Sunnyvale, California. And that was my Etude Indie Minor piece playing on the piano. Thanks. Ishan! Whoa, whoa, whoa. I am inspired. Don't tell the other podcasts, but we have the coolest listeners ever. And speaking of cool listeners, we want to hear from you too. Go to BrainsOn.org and send us a science-themed joke, a question about the show, or your idea for a brand new room for us to build at BrainsOn headquarters. Just go to BrainsOn.org to drop us a line. Can't wait to read it and smell it. Hey, it's Rosie again. Want ad-free versions of all of our shows? Plus bonus content? Plus plus regular online hangouts with Molly, Mark, and Sandin? Plus plus plus discounts on BrainsOn shirts, hats, and live show tickets? Then you gotta subscribe to SmartyPass. It's the best way to keep our shows going and get even more BrainsOn in your ears. Go to BrainsOn.org to join SmartyPass. Thanks. BrainsOn.org Back to talking octopuses with our pal Izumi. Octopuses use their amazingly large and complicated brains to do incredible and sometimes surprising stuff. They can be mischievous and sneaky, so today we're going to play a little game we're calling Obviously Octopus. What's that giant light up sign come from? And is that a hot paint coat with eight arms? Yes, it's my octo coat. Check it out, the arms even have little glittery sequin suckers on them. I sewed it myself. Awesome. Okay Izumi, in this game, I'll ask you some questions about octopuses being super smart and sneaky. And I'll give you four different options and you have to figure out which of them are the real things that octopuses did. Does that make sense? Let's do it. Okay, here's your first question. At an aquarium in Germany, an octopus named Otto turned off the spotlight above his tank. How did he do it? Did he A. climb up the side of the tank and squirt water at the light so it broke. B. throw a rock at the light. C. squirt a bunch of ink at it. Or D. unplug the light. Maybe A. Because when Dr. Mazer was talking, she said she signed octopus squirt water at the light above its tank, so maybe all octopuses do that. So A is your final answer? And the answer is A. You're correct. Yay! So this is a true story. Otto the octopus climbed up the side of his tank and squirted a jet of water at the light. Whoa. Exactly like you said. Water and electricity don't mix so the water broke the light above Otto's tank. And aquarium keepers aren't sure if he was just being curious or trying to break the light. Okay, Izumi, are you ready for your next question? Sure. Okay, here it is. In 2012, staff at the Monterey Bay Aquarium in California discovered an octopus that had snuck into the aquarium and had been living in one of the exhibits for a year. How did workers there finally figure out that the octopus was secretly hiding in the aquarium? Did they A. see trails of water on the floor? B. notice that something was eating the crabs out of a nearby exhibit? C. find an octopus-shaped puddle in front of one of the exhibits? Or D. spot the actual octopus on the floor out for a midnight stroll? I think it's going to be D because octopuses are usually very, very outgoing. It depends on the octopus but octopuses usually like to move around at night because they're nocturnal. So I think it's D. Excellent reasoning. The answer is all of the above. So you are correct. One of the workers was walking around the aquarium after closing when she spotted something on the floor that looked like a banana peel. Turns out it was an octopus that had snuck into the aquarium as a baby. Aquarium staff think it might have secretly hitched a ride on a sponge or rock that was put into the tank. Okay, great work, Izumi. Here's your last true tale of octopus awesomeness. Scientists have discovered that octopuses can do what activity in the laboratory? A. jump rope B. solve puzzles C. play musical instruments or D. dance the electric slide. Okay, I think it's B because I've seen an octopus in an aquarium that was playing with a Rubik's Cube. And if the octopus solved it then it would break open so they would be able to get the treat. So your final answer is B. B. Okay. The answer is B. solve puzzles. You are correct. Hurray! Scientists setting octopuses in the lab have found that they can solve complicated puzzles. Over time, the scientists made the puzzles harder and harder, but the octopuses kept learning how to solve them. In another experiment, researchers discovered that octopuses can figure out how to open jars to get food inside. Whoa. So, whoa, they are so smart. Great job, Izumi. And as your prize, you've won your very own octocote! I love it. Thanks, Rosie. Wait, which one of these arms am I supposed to put my actual arms in? This has been, obviously, Octopus. Thanks for playing. Octopuses have three hearts, blue blood, and a donut-shaped brain. They can be as small as a paperclip or as long as a car. They also have teeny tiny super sharp teeth on their tongues. And they're really smart. Which makes them very mischievous and helps them do sneaky things like escape their fish tanks at night. How will Octopus surprise us next? That's it for this episode of Brains On. It was written by me, Rosie Dupont, and Shayla Farzon. Editing by Sandin Totten with fact-checking by Anna Goldfield. We had engineering help from Chris Morris with sound design by Rachel Breeze. Original theme music by Mark Sanchez. There are lots of ways to support the show. Join SmartyPass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On universe. To sign up, head to SmartyPass.org. While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions. Okay, Izumi, are you ready to listen to that mystery sound again? Yes. Here it is. Yeah, I'm sticking with Lego. I'm sticking with Legos too. Alright, are you ready for the reveal, Izumi? Mm-hmm. Let's hear it. Hi, my name is Emma. My name is Eva. And we're from Thetford, Vermont. And that was the sound of us rummaging through our pencil box. Wow, so it wasn't Lego. I knew it. I knew I heard the sound of wood. I know. It's so close. I mean, it's like a big bin of hard things clicking up against each other. Ah, we both were so, so close. Also, Legos and pencils are both very entertaining. I feel very good about your guess. And I still think it sounded just shockingly like Legos. Once I get home, I am definitely going to compare the two. Oh my gosh, that's a great idea. I love the idea of doing a little experiment. Now it's time for the brain's honor roll. Here to do the honors is my pal and yours, Molly Bloom. Thanks, Rosie. These are the incredible kids who keep the show going with their questions, ideas, and mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives. Recent Ren from Indianapolis, Dieter Edwin Jethro Laszlo Ramey, Wallace and Zeppelin from St. George, Utah, Alden from Asheville, North Carolina, William from New Hampshire, Mara and Archie from Left Bridge, Alberta, Abby from Muskegon, Michigan, N.E.A. and Emily from Perth, Australia, Cole from New Jersey, Sophie and Ethan from North Glen, Colorado, Catherine from Richmond, Virginia, Henry from Charleston, South Carolina, Arwa from London, Max from Malmo, Sweden, Brooks from Indianapolis, Nora from Calgary, Matthew from New Zealand, Henry from Walden, New York, Eli and Molly from West Haven, Connecticut, Sylvan from Washington, D.C., Matilda from Madison, Wisconsin, Shibiel from London, Lulu from Shenzhen, China, Evangeline from Lyman, Maine, Violet from Burbank, California, Charlotte from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Max from Philadelphia, Roshan and Lena from Washington, D.C., Arora from Springfield, Oregon, Clyde and Kelly from Western North Carolina, Juni from New York City, Liam from Fort Wayne, Indiana, Elijah and Kaya from Albuquerque, New Mexico, Winnie from Westbrook, Maine, Elizabeth from Las Vegas, Nora and Corinne from Caswick, Virginia, Junchi from Guangzhou, China, Lucas from Porac, Croatia, Hannah and Josie from Astoria, Oregon, Miriam from Seattle, Suhan from Portland, Oregon, Griffin from Johannesburg, South Africa, Cameron from Claremont, Oklahoma, Islay from Aberdeen, Scotland, Jubilee from Fort Collins, Colorado, London from Erie, Pennsylvania, Kiran from Odenton, Maryland, Clementine from Indio, California, Kira from Springfield, Virginia, Islay from Vancouver, Alex and Theo from Auckland, New Zealand, Isaya from Providence, Rhode Island, Beebe from New Mexico, Colin from Irvine, California, Hone and Ere from Oak Park, Michigan, Hope, Heaven, Hezekiah, Harmony, Haven and Heart from Raleigh, North Carolina, Keats from Lubbock, Texas, Maddie and Edith from Walnut Creek, California and Selena from Folsom, California. We'll be back next week with a mystery sound extravaganza where all the sounds come from the natural world. And you might hear this. Thanks for listening.