Tana Mongeau: Internet Lore, Sobriety & Finding Love

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Because people are probably like, what's going on? Yeah, what's going on? Yeah. Is this unexpected, I don't know, or expected? That's really interesting, maybe a little bit of both to me, but like, I don't know, I'm just in this era of life where I'm trying, you're a businesswoman and there's a lot to learn. And there, I think in every other era of life, I missed out on that connection with you and like, just, it's funny, even we got lunch the other day and I sit down and I was like, do you hate me? And you're like, no. I look like Tana. I don't, we don't even like, wow. How would I? I'm just at Unwell Vegas, mind you. It's like, why am I asking her this? But I guess it was just that, like, you and I had never gotten to have a moment that was off camera. We'd never gotten to have a moment where you both weren't on or like, even the first Call Her Daddy, I was like, I needed rehab, not Call Her Daddy. Let's talk about that. It was such a weird moment. So Tana DMs me and is like, well, you go to lunch with me and I'm like, so ominous too. So ominous. No context. And I'm like, of course, like, and I'm trying to think like, what does she want to talk about? But I also kind of want and so then we get there and you were in a little button down. You were so wholesome. It was, I was like, oh, where are my button down? You, you ate your pigs in a blanket. Yeah. There is something about scarfing pigs in a blanket across from you that is just some things will never change. But we talked about so much at that lunch and I felt like it was the first time we got to really bond. It was have a moment and I was like, oh, wow, like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be like, oh, well, she was a person. You're always a person. But like, we'd never been able to like strip down and just really discuss our like ideals and with no cameras. Yeah. And I think that that was like the moment we had such a fabulous conversation. We talked about a multitude of things, one being like how much we have grown since we met the fact that we podcasted together over it's been over six years. That's crazy. That's really crazy. But like the growth is I think evident. I mean, I don't have silver hair anymore. Yes. Oh my God. And my tracks aren't out for the first time in my life. Like I just I needed to go darker. There's so many. There's so many little things where it's aesthetically and internally we both needed to know. And it's like, what am I supposed to do with it? I told you we're in demolition. Yeah. First of all, I walk in, but I have to say there's something and I don't know if I can say this word on call her daddy, but there's something so cunty about someone walking in and you be like, we're undergoing demolition right now. The only demolition I've ever had was interpersonal. Like, you know, the only demolition I ever had was like in my own personal life. We're doing like everything. And it looks like it really looks crazy. So thank you for understanding. But I feel so at home in construction weirdly. I'm under construction always personally at all times. So anyway, so we leave that lunch and we're like, Oh my God, there's so much to do business wise, personal wise, friendship wise, but like, let's get you on the podcast because I also think like we deserve to like rewrite our digital footprint a little bit. I agree. But I also, I think that like a lot of people had a lot to say about our original episode of call her daddy. Let's say yeah, yes, let's take it. Let's go back. So to anyone that's not familiar or our original original, there's so much there. That's what I'm saying. So to anyone who's not chronically online, almost a decade ago when call her daddy was started, Tanimojo was supposed to be the first ever guest. And aren't you just so happy? I wasn't like, like, sometimes the universe does work things out in a certain way. Like, I don't know if you would have gotten to like the Kamala heresies of it all had that happen, you know, maybe fair, but no, no, no. But I want to hear this story from your perspective. So I'm at Barstool. We had never had a guest. We were like, should we have a guest? I was such a huge fan of yours. I was like watching your YouTube's. I was like, Tana, it would be the perfect person. I was very gluck at that time. You were so gluck. I was beyond you. You were so on brand for us. We were so, but look, we were so congruent with our brands then. And now we're both a little bit more brand safe now. Yeah. And we've grown. But at the time you then slept through the interview. Yes. Well, I was sick, but I will say at the time as well, like, who gives a fuck that I was sick? Tell me the story from your perspective. I was touring and I had a day off and like even just my team at the time, you can imagine what my assistants looked like. We were all just hammered and all of those things. And yeah, factually, I just like, I felt like shit. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I can't make this and whatever. But maybe if you were doing a little better to your immune system, you would have shown up. And like also now it's like, maybe if you're touring, don't agree on your one off day. And like, obviously this was 10 years ago and I was so bad with timing then and like just so, so bad. Like, and I had to learn that lesson for 10 more years to come. Honestly. But to be fair, and I said this to you at lunch, you guys, it really was the best blessing. And it breaks my heart. Like, no, but when I look back at all of those moments where I just fell so short and I was such a piece of shit in so many ways, I know it's 10 years ago and I know I've changed, but it's just like, you want to go back and shake that girl for sure. And like now looking back, like it's really not that deep. But at the time being like such a huge fan, it definitely hurt. But no, but like valid. And then when I took the show over and did it solo, then you came on the show. Yes. And I think that there is something to be said about the fact that like you gave me a little bit of a proper joking hazing. And it's like, I also was coming off of all of the Jake Paul shit at that time. I was also a drunk mess. You came and you interviewed me while I was living in the cloud house. No, in my house with like eight floors that I didn't need to be living and I needed rehab once again. You need to slow down because I will never forget. Please. And I've forgotten a lot. So please refresh me. So first of all, you completely forgot. And I told you this and you were like, we did. We went to catch the night before I interviewed you on Colorado. And now I remember like, I remember the paparazzi photos, which is such an embarrassing, pathetic way to remember so much of your life in paparazzi photos. But like, I have no idea what happened in that restaurant. Tana, I know. I know. So you guys, so for context, I flew out to LA. I'm so excited. I'm going to have like kind of like my first round of guests on for Colorado. And my now husband, Matt, dropped me off at catch. And he's like, so who are you going to see at catch? And I was like, Tana Mocho. And he was like, okay, he drops me off. I walk in and it's like you. And I think like, I forget who's there. It may have been Trevi. It may have been Ashley. I forget. There was like a couple people there and I was solo riding with you and your squad. And we talked all up. Don't look at you. You don't remember anything. I genuinely feel like someone like that. It's sad to an extent where I'm just like, how much of my life I don't remember. But I get to, I get to get in in bits and pieces. Let me tell you. So here we are. So here we are. We're having a spicy tuna roll. And we're talking, we're talking about how, you know, you had flaked on Caller Daddy. And we're talking about the interview and how like, I'm going to bring it up and we're going to make a joke out of it. And it will be so good for clicks or whatever. And there's paparazzi downstairs and the whole thing. So like, you were like on board with this whole plan. Yes. So I show up the next day to the cloud house. And to anyone that is remembering now with me, like cloud house, hype house, like we saw all of this online, but to walk into a actual TikTok influencer, YouTuber home, I was so intimidated. It was so funny. It was so scary. There were so many people. I opened the front door. I had no team at the time. I had like one freelancer with me and then one person who had worked with me at Barstool and we walk in people I've seen online, walking around, filming everyone's filming 24 seven. Well, because I, my house was just my house, but then the hype house was next door and they'd somehow acquired my door codes, which is just what in the fucking simulation are you and like at one point post Malone and his friends were next door. And it was like this whole conglomerate where everyone just walked into other people's houses, people would walk in unclothed. It was like, and at this time as well, it was such a juxtaposition because my parents were suing me for everything that I had. So I'm in the lowest point of my life while I'm trying to present that like, cause at that time too, that was the epitome of success to me to live in this cloud house and live in this thing. And like how lost you have to be to think that this is the epitome of success. I'm like, just what a mind fuck. And it's like, once again, like maybe you don't need to call her daddy. Maybe you need like intensive, intensive EMDR therapy. But you were, you were amazing on that episode. And I remember sitting on the black couch that you and Brooke ended up doing canceled on and I'm sitting there and I'm like waiting for you. And I think like Amari was in the room and a couple of people are like setting up the cameras and I'm like so intimidated. I'm so nervous. I'm like so funny. I like perceived it so different. I think like I was so nervous. I was so nervous. And I knew I had like wronged you before and like I wanted you. I wanted you to like me. I was a fan. I watched your story times. I watched you in Vegas. Like I watched you growing up on my screen. So I was shitting my pants. And then we do the episode. And I remember you told like the craziest sex stories and you also no idea. No idea. And I remember you told also like really, really understandably like horrific shit about your parents and what you were going through lightly. And it was great. And we were like, this is going to get so many views. And it did. And it did so well. But then people were very divided. They were either like Alex, you went too hard at Tana. Like, okay. So she missed the Caller Daddy first episode, like let it go. Or people were like, yeah, Tana is a fucking disaster. Like fuck that bitch. And it was like, oh my God. Wait guys, we were kind of playing it up for the cameras. And also like anytime anyone has ever brought that up to me, like I think that a lot of the things you were saying in my opinion were a public opinion and were public questions. I was such a disaster in so many ways. And like, God forbid a journalist is doing some boots on the ground trying to get to the bottom of it. And also like, yes, I missed that. But it was a pivotal moment like for you and everything that had happened before that I had missed that. And we had never talked about it on camera. And like I stand on exactly why your approach was that way. You know, so crazy also the way the internet, because then I think that I went on for a long time to be like, does Alex Cooper even like me? And I like really lived with this reservation because of the internet commentary. I know. And it's, and it's like, because I was again, I was so like, you were valid in everything that you were saying at that time to where I was like, what a, it almost was a good thing to have you ask me these questions and why I was thinking this way and haze me a little bit for the thing that I had done wrong. And it's so funny how much the internet can like do the thing that it does. It's so wild. And then on while Vegas happens, and I'm like, oh, we're cool. Because it's been so long and we both grown so much. So I think like, what we're, I guess trying to say is like our origin story was very complex. And it felt tumultuous maybe to the internet. But I think you and I both always had this thing where we were like, I want to know you and I really fuck with you. But the only fucking time that we've ever really been able to hang out is with cameras in our face. And like we're both on and that's such a thing. Like even on while Vegas, you're dealing with like a million things. And I, I get that, you know what I mean? And I was so, but I also think I've been saying this a lot in my life right now that I think the universe protected me from fostering a lot of relationships until I was sober and capable of fostering those relationships. And to be the, like I'm so happy that this is happening now versus any other time. And obviously we were both chaotic and we would have gotten along about the Glucks and all the different things. Of course, like I think we would have gotten along at any point in time, you know what I mean? But I had a little catching up to do and I'm happy that it's now, I guess. Well, I'm happy too. And I even just felt at that lunch, like I agree with you. I don't think you and I would have been not only capable, but just like uninterested in the depth of like just one lunch together. And we were both like almost crying at the end. We're like, Oh my God, there's so much to discuss and so many similarities and differences and things to learn from each other. So I guess I'd always lived with this wondering of like, would we get along? Like, would we like, would we find things commonalities? Would we like, do we see the world in like a similar way? Or like, We left at lunch and we were like, And I was like, this is really cool to see. I was so like, amazed to see such a human human being across from me. You know what I mean? And I'm sure you felt the same way. You had never seen me in a human being light. And I was like, it's very cool to just, she's, she's just a girl. So now I want to kind of go through. Oh, it's so fun to reminisce. This is so fun. I think when I look back at the beginning of my career, and you've been doing this for so long, I did a lot of things in the beginning days, understandably to gain attention. Of course, we have to put that in. I know that was so funny. I feel like Cole Sprouse. The way I'm like the digital version of the, the hot box. Tana fully huffing and you know, I'm done. You know, but you going like this, like, like gracefully Queen Elizabeth style. There's a photo of you over here, like full regal. That's what I'm trying to give about my absolute problem. I need a patch. I really tried to like, I did a lot of things for attention is basically what I'm saying. And I, and I think a lot of it also was because like that day and age of the internet with YouTube and everything, like it was so, you had to kind of do that to break into the industry. And there was this feeling of scarcity, I think, and this fear of like, if I don't do this, someone else will. And I don't really know a lot about your upbringing or where you came from, but I, speaking for myself, I guess I lived in a lot of fear. I fear was my only number one biggest motivator across my career at all times. Like if I don't do this and I don't say this crazy thing, and I don't do this, someone else is going to, and I'm going to be gone tomorrow. And quite frankly, I'm going to be back at home with my parents. Like, you know what I mean? I think I had to like live that way. I felt like I had to live that way for so long. And I think like, you're being rewarded for it too. You are. I was going to say there's a weird thing where it's like the drive of fear as fucked up as it is, like, is probably why you have gotten as far as you have, as opposed to someone who's been kind of like handed everything to them. Like, oh, I don't need to try that hard. Like, you have grinded, you have, you have gotten canceled, you've gotten uncanceled, you have gone through different phases. Like you have literally gotten through so many different eras of your life in the public eye. And so I want to ask you going back a little bit, like, what were some types of things when you got to LA that you were doing just for views that you can now look back and be like, oh my God, like I was really, it was hard almost for me to differentiate it. I think I became so engulfed in that person. And I think it snowballed as well. I mean, also it all comes back to the story times, right? Like I'm using these salacious titles and these crazy things and I'm learning that people want to see this. And I'm like blurring those lines and like I'm praying that an Uber driver gives me a bad experience so that I can pay my bills to get away from my parents and hopefully get emancipated. And like it all started there and then it just snowballs. And I almost think that that was that time, you know, my first friend in LA was face banks. And like we did foster a great friendship and stuff like that. But I mean, the same thing that he was calling that the cloudhouse and they were all doing that. And the face clan was doing that. And then I moved on to meeting the Paul brothers who like definitely had a very like similar mindset and stuff. I was dating Bella Thorne and like everyone was obsessed with that. Like there, there are just so many, it's a culmination of a million things that it truly just became who I was. I lost myself in LA over, you know, the course of time, I guess. I think that's such a good point. Like how you just said, like you were praying for a bad Uber driver experience. I think that any, you know, like literally, Tana, I think any single person who makes content, now I think at any degree, you go into it and you start making things and it's so fun. And then you have that one day and you can't really pinpoint when it was where you're like, but if I do this, it will make for such a good video. And then once you, I remember I literally was on Raya. I met a guy and I flew to Paris before even meeting him. I was like out of my mind. I would have never done that, but I had a vlog camera on a YouTube channel before Caller Diety. And I was like, I want to do this. I would have never gotten on the plane if I didn't have a YouTube channel. So like I was doing things for the story that then motivates your life in a way that's like, you're kind of like a prisoner to the content. Of course. And just to this mindset that like I have to build this lore and I have to do these things. And it's like, all of the things that I look back on, you know what I mean? It got all the way to the point of like a fake wedding. It got all the way to the point. And it's just like, I can't really differentiate. So many moments in between all of it were genuine. You know what I mean? Like I did love and care about so many of these people. And I still stuck with my ride or dies from Vegas from day one. I didn't fully become this like sociopath view monster, but so much of like what I was doing was pushing that boundary and that envelope. And like, I even think about just like Alex Warren and I would be like, let's get a thousand hissing cockroaches and do this thing. Like it just, it was like, I don't know. It just became who I was. And then I woke up one day and was like, Oh my God, I don't, I don't want to do that anymore. You so as you get older and your front to lobe develops, it wasn't until like 25 or 26 where I was just like, I want to be a person with so much more depth and substance. And I realized the way to my platform and like, and it's so hard to get off the like the roller coaster. Cause you also like, I didn't start my career in LA. And like at the time in my career, there wasn't like New York city influencers. So it kind of like was, we were like siloed in New York and then there was like barstool boys. But like, it was kind of like, you guys had so many people to help you. If you turned left or right, there was so many people doing hurt. Right. Yeah. And so everyone was doing it. So it felt probably also probably normal. It really did. And I talk about this a lot as well now that especially, it's since short form content has started to happen. So many of these influencers now, as they blow up, you know, CAA and UTA and all of these talent agencies are ready to help them. And like, they've seen all the mistakes of all of the other creators. So they know what not to do that. Now, well, everyone has a PR person. So they know what not to do. And it was none of that. It was boots on the ground journalism in the regard that like, I'm not going to sit here and be like, we pioneered it. Like that's fucking dramatic. But like, it was figuring everything out for the first time. And it was convincing these brands that influencers were just as valuable as a Facebook ad. It was like making the mistake and then having to make the apology video and under learning that culture and like apology video. Oh my God, it was what a, I get a cigarette. I'm like, back in my day, like just all of these things were being figured out for the first time. Can we talk about though, though, because controversy, I think that inevitably and unfortunately, it is obvious that the more controversial something is, the more people are going to pay attention online to it. And you learn that. And if you're not in a good headspace, you start to like compartmentalize the hate and just think that any attention is good attention. And when you have a million people around you kind of like feeding into that notion, it can be such a scary snowball. Is there anything that you look back on in those days, something that you're like, that was so just like controversial at the time. And I just knew it would do well for views. But like, I'm like, what the fuck was I doing? It's so hard, Alex, to give you anecdotal answers, because it was everything. And it almost wasn't. One thing that I will say is that so much of it was not like, I'm not going to give myself the credit that I was this like mastermind, scheming so much. It was almost just the way I was living. I think that I was just, I guess the difference is that a lot of other people possessed a lot of discretion. And they knew like maybe this like party last night where we all did a bunch of drugs. I'm not going to talk about it online tomorrow because I have discretion and I care about my reputation and I have self worth and I have parents, right? Like all of these things where I was like, no one's doing this and I'm just going to share it all. And like, you know what I mean? Like almost like a who cares mindset. Right. There were no boundaries for you. It was just kind of like anything goes. At all. Exactly. I lived with an anything goes. I lived without discretion up until maybe 72 hours ago. That's a joke. Okay. Anything random comes to mind if you could erase something from the internet, what would it be of yourself? I've definitely had nights where I stay up late and I think God, how much better would it be if even the paparazzi or team Bryce on God was erased from the internet, but at the same time, and just like the jaw swinging, like, you know, I can look back. There's a paparazzi video of me going, I hate people. I love them. Like the paparazzi had asked me, I was leaving catch. Honestly, it was right around the same time as you and I had gotten that dinner. And the paparazzi had asked me, how do you feel about Addison Rae and Bryce Hall's breakup? And I say, I hate people. I love them. And then at the time I was very close with Josie Konseko. And for some reason, how fucked up I was, I thought that Jose Konseko, her father, was my best friend. So I'm talking about, take me out to the ball game. I'm talking about how Jose Konseko is my best friend. And I can look back at the, the like, those moments and be like, that is objectively hilarious. And like, I don't want that erased. But then my jaw continued to swing for a little too long, you know, where it's like, I, you know, but at the same time, like, I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect all the way down to like, the shoes I'm wearing today and the sweatsuit you're wearing today, like that, like that changed the entire course of our day. I think that every little thing got me to the person that I am. And for so long, I was a person that I was not proud of. For so long, I was a person that I absolutely hated for so long. I was like, such a fucking mess that like every single mistake or embarrassing thing taught me something, whether it was heavy criticism, whether it was like, you are so fucking embarrassing, get it together, whether it was like, and I just, I get scared when I think about like, what if I erased that one thing and I continued to be that person, I would be so sad if I was still that person. That's such a good point too, Tana, like we see on the internet the team Bryce on God moment and everyone's like, this is so funny. This is the biggest meme of the year, holy shit. But you are also looking back being like, Oh my God, like, why were we team Bryce on God? Like let's be team God on God. Maybe find God. And it's funny because I actually was sober in that video, which makes it so much worse. But I mean, better than I before, better right after. I'm just saying like, like, I was like, Oh, you were fully so you're like, no, no, no, no, just like in that very moment. Yes. And that, but no, but I think it's also one of those things where I was just lost, you know what I mean? Like it just, who I was and the things I wanted to attend and the people I wanted to surround myself with. You're seeing these videos and you're like, Oh my God, I see someone that's so lost and hurting. And then the internet though, is kind of perpetuating like this is so funny, Tana. And so it's like, should she do it again? Should she keep going? And it's like, when do you eventually be like, I have to stop with my identity so much in that way? Because at the time I think even you're saying so lost and hurting, I think I didn't know that I was hurting. I think that I like, I, I now know I was hurting and I was numbing all of these things that had happened to me and just continuing to like get number and number and abuse substances more and numbing all these things that had happened to me. But in my head, I was like, I am, I'm a party girl. I'm Tmoo Lindsay Lohan. Let's go. Like, which is like, and then people love that image and you start the wine brand and you're throwing the parties and you're gathering the lore that then works so amazing for this podcast that you're doing and like all of these things that you like convince yourself that no one's going to love you if like you stop all of these things. And my identity became so tied to it to where I thought that not only that I loved being that, but that that's who I had to be or no one would listen and like all of those things. Tana and all of those things we totally both tip over and start crying. Wait, let's talk about the criticism because in if in a way, and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, I think a lot of people I've talked to, especially in this industry, like you kind of start to dissociate in a way where you look back and you're like, I don't really remember certain things because you're just like, I'm going along and I'm surviving and I don't know what's happening. Or you're just like blacking it out and you're compartmentalizing, right? But then people are criticizing you and heavily heavily. And I want rightfully so. I want you to though, like take me to your headspace. When you would get criticism online. Because a lot of people watching this like will have never experienced it at the level that you have where people are like saying things about you. How would you handle that? And how has that evolved for you? Yeah, it's definitely evolved a lot. But I think that for a long time, the big things did stick. Like, you know what I mean? Like TanaCon, for example, like I spent an entire week at my best friend's apartment sobbing on the floor reading everything, knowing that the whole world hated me and that I was a fucking failure and that I failed my fans. And like, I have goosebumps right now. It will never, it's a part of me that will never get over that failure because I failed my fans so tangibly and directly and stuff. However, I like that criticism stuck with me. And I knew that I needed to ensure that all of my business partners, like even though they were saying yes, if they were actually capable of doing things that you couldn't just trust people, if they said they were going to do something and I didn't know that lesson before. And I like learned that maybe I need more people around me that will say no to me, which I think was a longer less, took me a little longer to learn. But like, the big things did really stick. You know what I mean? Even just like more anecdotal things were when like I had bailed on BFF's podcast, Dave Portnoy came online and said, don't do business with her. She's a fucking bozo. Like that one stuck with me where I was like, I don't want to be that girl. And then the substances were allowing me to continue to like fail and whatever, but I internalized them and was doing my best to grow. How did you eventually learn the difference between like being canceled versus being held accountable? Yes, I have always shared everything. So it's not like I have this fake personality online that people were criticizing. They were criticizing me and who I was to my core. So like when I, you know what I mean? When I would receive those, it was like, okay, maybe, maybe I should like take some notes and refine, right? Like, and I'm not saying to like internalize everything that the internet says, because I think things can be ostracized too far both ways, the good and the bad. And if you place too much value in either of those things, you lose who you are and who your value is. And there is discussion between that. And I think that that's why it's so important to ensure that like your inner circle when you're is so amazing. I'm so, I think I would be dead without my best friends who are my family, my chosen family around me, holding me accountable, though, like not a bunch of yes men, but like ensuring me that like there is a real world. My new obsession these days is touching the fuck out of grass. I love grass. It is the best thing ever. And why girl, my boyfriend helped me with that so much, like just seeing his outlook on the world, like just him understanding that this is just this one bubble that I live in. And there's this whole big world out there and like trees and scenery are beautiful and connections with family are awesome and deep conversations are awesome and knowing, knowing who you are is awesome. And like that is this is the first era in my life where I my team and I like we my like head of content guy, he's also one of my best friends. And we've been friends for a long time when we finally got on the chance to like work on my new project together. And him and I have really spearheaded the phrase towards this entire era of intention versus attention. And it just being the very first time that that's what matters and that our intentions are so pure. And that like we know who the fuck we are. And we're not doing this to like garner attention, because that's also the thing too is like when you are towing that line of garnering attention, you are also making yourself so much more susceptible to walking that tightrope of flying too close to the sun and though all of the things it can get really fucking dangerous. I think that you're known obviously for being so authentic online. So I do want to hear a couple of your takes today. I want to get your opinion. I was doing my U-to-her before and she was like, are you okay? Like are you are you giving Jennifer courage? What are you doing? What is that new? There's definitely like some spectrum that I'm on, right? Like I love a vocal stem. You're just like going, okay, let's get your take. It can be good or bad. Opinion on a few things. Okay, what is your take on the current state of extravagant brand trips? Have they lost the plot? Wow. I mean, I think as long as people are doing good, where we're at in society right now, just showing off opulence and that being all that you are is so, that was a big lesson that I learned across this time. I had a psychic actually tell me that I would go so heavily into philanthropy. And the psychic told me this at a time in my life where I was like, absolutely not. I want to go to poppy tonight. What the fuck are you talking about? Maybe I'll do philanthropy when I share something under my fingernail with someone else. That's as philanthropic as I'll ever get. And under my fingernail. Okay, yep. And now as I get to this point in life, I'm like, I realize how important it is if you have something to give, how much you need to give back and stuff. I think that now, right now, if someone was like, do you want to go on this brand trip with this crop top brand with these girls and like take, they're all going to be taking 1000 tequila shots and like, that's the whole point. I'm saying no. I think it's the first time in my life where I'm saying no for so long. I was so excited to like say yes to everything because I mean, if anything came across my desk, I was just stoked. Something was coming across my desk, right? Like, so it's now you're able to kind of discern like, does this, is this for attention or is this intentional? Like, do I, is this actually meaningful to me and make sense for me right now in my life? Yes. And do I morally feel like this is a good or right thing to do? Do I feel like this is helpful for the greater good either of what I'm doing with my platform or the bigger picture of the world today that needs so much help? And sometimes it just takes like literally growing up. Yes. Like if you're 22 and you're getting invited on the brand trip, you're like, what, what, why would I know? Who cares that people think I look like, let's take a shot at Turks and Caicos. Like that was me for so long. And now I'm just like, you know, they don't need it. Our sponsor today is Brothers Cider. I think we all kind of agree at this point that the best memories are made in person and not on screens. There's nothing better than when one text turns into a group chat, which then turns into like, okay, everyone time to come over and suddenly it's a whole thing and you're having the time of your life, no overplanning just everyone showing up as they are. And that's exactly the vibe that brothers bring. Brothers Cider is all about real fruit and real flavor and that IRL energy you just can't fake. It's a little unexpected, but it always makes for a refreshing addition to any get together, whether you're throwing a last minute hang, a house party or just something that somehow ends up being way bigger than you ever planned. It's intentionally different in the best way possible. Seriously, Brothers Cider has joy in its DNA. It was born at Glastonbury Festival, so it's rooted in music, spontaneity, and just honestly having a good time with whoever's down. Next time plans come together out of nowhere, look out for brothers and bring a little more real life joy into it. Grab brothers for your next get together. It's a brothers thing. How do you feel about the internet switch up on Hailey Bieber after Coachella? I mean, I'm like, I'm the I can't even get my words out. I'm the biggest believer until I die. Like she could run me over. Like I could be in the road and she no pun intended on the road. I could be in the road and she can run me over. I love her to death. And I think even just that the Hailey and Selena shit was so disheartening to me because it's like, God forbid they both they both want to just run off into the sunset and live their lives. Like it was so ostracized that there's no other way and over a man and I love Justin Bieber, but still over a man that there's no other possible ending to this story than these two women having to burn each other's houses down. It's so sad to me. It is so sad. And I loved Hailey's response being or she said like savior apologies, the therapies already paid for. I was like, babe, honestly good for you. God forbid you also like want to stay with the person and heal and grow with them. And like she did that. She stuck by his side and rode with him maybe at times where he wasn't the best, but like that shows that you're a rider die and that you love this person and you want to be a mom and you want to release some fucking peptide lip gloss that are bomb like let the bitch live. Like it just it's so true. Everyone switches up so fast. It's like it's so it's whiplash. Yeah, but I also respect Hailey so much for kind of being like save it. Like I don't need whether you love me or hate me. I don't really care anymore. Like I've had to find peace because you guys have bullied me for so fucking long and people just like, Oh my God, like wanting to do that. Like, I know that you can write off like there's so many people that are gonna be like she's famous. She's married to Justin Bieber. She's fine. But like what that what that does to your psyche, people like even her OG Met Gallow where people were like screaming at her on the carpet awful things like what that does to your psyche feeling like you can't leave your house without even like little scandals of mine. I would feel that way where you're like leaving the house and you're at the coffee shop and the barista is looking at you and you're like they hate me. They hate me. They hope I die. Like they hate me so much and they probably don't and don't know and whatever. I can't imagine on that level of your psyche of like, I can't very strong woman. Yeah. And it's just it would never happen to. It's such a good point. Do you think people have lost their sense of individualism because of social media and the constant trend cycle? To an extent, yes. Right. Like I ordered a jelly cat the other day and it's just like why did I order that jelly cat? Okay. Like and Buster is going to chew it up in three hours. It doesn't like there is definitely yes. But I also really try to look at social media not through a general lens of everyone and everything is awful because it's very easy to do that nowadays. It is. It is. It's and there are still so many creators that are bringing individualism and philanthropy and good things and all of these things to the forefront of their pages. And I tried it even like a Julia Fox is a great example of someone who is just so individually sands, tentos down on like their opinions and all of those things. I love her. There are the Julia Foxes of the world who remind us that we can just like have our own opinions and be individual. And I try to just focus on that. Otherwise, I'll like you'll go and take and it's true. Like sometimes it is fun to participate in trends, but then it is also like if you're doing it every fucking time, then it's maybe like a slowy roll. Like what is your actual own fashion sense? What is your own actual beliefs? Like are you just regurgitating what you're scrolling every day? And opinions as well. I think that I struggle with that a lot. Like, you know what I mean? Cause I always want to share my honest opinion and sometimes it's not, you know, let's talk about canceled. Yes. So you had such a presence on the internet, YouTube. Everyone knew you for your story times. You like we just kind of talked about earlier, you had evolved so intensely in different categories and different moments and marriages and relationships and all that marriages. And then you launched this podcast and it felt like kind of a pretty big shift in, in your career and your life at the time. Did it feel that way? I don't think I was as aware of it at the time, but when I look back now, like, and I just want to say something that I don't feel like I've said yet in this kind of like time of my life in an interview. If I had a fucking time machine and I could go back, I would do it all over again, every time just the same. Like I, it was crazy and wild. And it's funny. Even now I'm like realizing that there are moments that I don't even really remember. There's a part of me that's like, I kind of just like, brooked it. I woke up one day and we had one of the biggest podcasts in the world. And there was, there wasn't a lot of like, you know, I didn't, I don't even know how it happened, but it's because it was just so authentic and it was so authentic to me at the time. And what her and I had, like, I think it did save my career in so many ways. Had I just kept drinking and trying to renegade and like not, you know what I mean? Had this long form thing with this incredible dynamic with this other person, I have no idea where I would like be now, you know? And I think also for anyone that lived under a rock, like you and Brooke, your co-host at the time, like you were either weighing in on internet culture and drama specifically, or I think more towards the end, like you then also started to kind of expose it a little bit, like you would bring stories forward. Yeah, our personal lives. Yes, of your personal lives. And just the things that we were experiencing, because that was so much of what we were doing, going out and doing all of the like crazy things and canceled also provided this crazy life for us, like where we're looking at each other at like the People's Choice Awards and we're like watching like Jennifer Aniston or whoever like present more like how the hell did this happen? You know what I mean? When? Because I relate in a lot of ways to like early Caller Daddy days felt a little bit like what you're describing of there almost wasn't a moment to be like, wait, it's the biggest show in the world. Oh my god, like it's happening. Just keep pushing your fucking foot down on the gas and just go, go, go. That's how I felt for sure. In the beginning, like did you ever start to have concern a little bit of like, ooh, bringing drama and how many views we're getting? Like are we crossing a line at all? Like where did you start to have those conversations if at all? I think that for a while we were just like, you know what I mean? Talking shit about our real lives and all of the things that were happening. I will say that something so beautiful about our dynamic was that Brooke always had a little bit more discretion than me even in the craziest times where it's like, Hannah, don't fucking say that. And that was what made the on-camera dynamic so great and like helped so much in real life. And it was like this perfect balance and stuff like that. I think that for the first time that I personally felt ever across canceled felt a repercussion on my mental health of the things that I say, you know, because for so long, even just pre-canceled across all of canceled, I was saying anything and just keeping moving. And it like, it was negatively affecting my mental health, but I was numbing it out with drinking all the things that I personally was saying and stuff like that. But the first time where I was like, whoa, this may not be like so good for me, was right after I had come for Elisa Violet, I had talked about my experience with Cody Coe because it like went out into the world and I had said that on stage like flippantly on tour and ever thinking it would go out into the world. And I was going everywhere in public and people had so much to say and I couldn't open my phone at all without seeing good or bad things like just whatever, you know what I mean? And I was like, whoa, and then we did dial it back and it was okay again later, you know what I mean? But yeah, I think even towards the end, there would be moments, especially Brooke again, was always better with the discretion where we'd be on tour and she'd be like, actually, wait, I want to stop telling the story on stage. Like wait, just growing up, just naturally like growing up a little bit. That's what I was thinking about and starting to care about other like people's like, you know what I mean? Lives. Yes. And how it's going to affect them because I was going to say there's such a huge risk reward that comes with over sharing on the internet, right? The reward is the views and the people and the consumers being like more, more, give us more, oh my God, this is intoxicating, oh my God, tea, drama, oh my God. But then the risk is behind the scenes, you can be burning bridges and like maybe fucking with people's lives a little bit, not saying some of them didn't deserve it, but just saying like there's relationships that are getting a little fucked up in all this. I couldn't walk into, me personally at least, could not, like I couldn't walk into a room in Hollywood without either a feeling like everyone was afraid of me or be like, it's so funny at that time too. I was still so delusional because I would walk into a room and then some celebrity or some person would be like, and don't put this on your podcast. And I would be like, why would they say that? Like I would, why, just why does everyone always like say that to me? And it's like, what, Tana next week? You're like, so anyway, so at this time? Yes, like, yes. And just, oh my God, but I can't stress you enough also, like, canceled saved my life in so many ways because as much as we're talking about all of the crazy stuff that was said in the repercussions of that at the same time, while all of that was happening, we also fostered this community of women that were so incredible and showed up for us everywhere and cared about, we had to say and cared about every last intricacy of our life and like just every, we couldn't go anywhere and it makes me want to cry when I like start to say it, but it's like, we could, and I said this on the last episode, but it will forever make me emotional that we couldn't go anywhere for years without some girl stopping us and saying like the canceled podcast saved my life and changed my life and made me feel like I'm maybe more of a wild girl or I had a shitty relationship with my mom and it transferred into my love life for like all of these things, you know, like I don't, I don't ever want to look at it. I don't look at it through a bad lens because you know, no, you made a lot of people feel seen and I think my life had just changed so drastically. Like I really, I'll never forget the canceled episode where I came home from Hawaii. McCullough was in my living room. He didn't know like anything about my life and he had just flown out and he was down to take a gamble and we'd had like Megan trainer on and I remember I was watching like McCullough meet Megan trainer and then we shoot like another episode and I sit down across from Brooke and I'm like, I just met the love of my life and I still was very chaotic as a person and just in a very dark time and of drinking and substance abuse and all of my traumas culminating together to make me this person that I hated myself and you know, just all of these different things, but life started to change and I started to want to go to Hawaii more and like started caring less about like feeling this need to come online and like, you know, go on a rampage about someone or something or like foster the lore in LA like at the Hollywood parties and all the things. Yeah, like how, how now you sitting here, how has it changed the way that you approach involving yourself in internet drama or talking on other people's situations or your own personal situation? You know what I think it is now is obviously a lot of discretion like we've been talking about where like I'll go on a rant and me and TikTok drafts are like this. Okay. Like I will film something. I will draft it. I will think about it and a lot of times it won't see the light of day, but even with brand safe, I've really been thinking about that because like it's an unrealistic standard to say that I will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever speak on things happening on the internet again. Right. But like if there's not a bigger lesson there, like even right now, I saw something online where this girl is going extremely viral for her 50 day bender. She's like, she's a college girl and a lot of people have a lot to say about her like 50 days. She's doing day one, day two, day three of just being on this bender and people are, you know, starting this whole conversation about it. And I'm like, okay, that's an internet thing I would talk about on brand safe because I think there's so much to be said about bender culture. Just like how much it alcohol is glamorized for like and party girl and like all of those things is so glamorized when it like it's in reality, that's like fostering alcoholism for life that could have a lot of repercussions and digital footprint for like jobs that could have a lot of repercussion. I think now I really don't care to talk about pop culture and drama stuff unless either I am really passionate or B, there's a bigger picture. And like I used to almost like have to or I felt like I had to like garner something to say. I had to like come up with something to say about something. And it's like, why add more noise? Yeah, if there's not a bigger, like maybe there's a bigger conversation about how if it was too many once again, you know, but like, yeah, I just don't feel the need to be like comment commenting on every single thing. That's such an interesting point too. Cause in talking about the double standard, like, did you ever feel like because how much you referenced people were so literally pausing episodes of you and Brooke and being like, Oh my God, at this point, you could tell that this one doesn't really laugh at that joke. And so they must be in a fight. This is crazy. Or she gave her kind of like an interesting weird look that they must be in a fight. Did you guys or did you personally can only speak for yourself like ever feel like you had to start to like perform in a way of like, Oh, make sure I'm smiling a lot or like make sure I'm XYZ to appease all the naysayers. I do feel like in the beginning of canceled, not only was I just like so hammered and stuff that I was just like, and just crazy and just like, I just come off of the do anything for views. And that's who I was. I was so crazy. Whereas by the end, I, you start to, especially in becoming sober, you start to look at things through a lens of like, I know if I say this thing this way that people are going to say things this way and fostering such a polarizing comment section and stuff like that. And I think that I just, yeah, it did just make me sad where I was just like, it does suck because you're like, and maybe that's also just growing older as well. Like we were, you know, by the end of it, like she's getting married and I'm like, you know, I'm so happy with McCoy and spending so much more time in Hawaii and I'm sober as all hell. So I'm just seeing everything so clearly to where like by the end of it, you know, like, yeah, you feel more types of ways about the way the internet is going to pick everything apart. You start to overthink. I think that I became an overthinker. I became an anxious person. I like developed OCD a little bit, like for the first time in my life in the sober journey of just like, you know, I mean, the screw, like the scrutiny that you guys were getting, that would make sense of how it could make you like paranoid. Yes. Now that you guys don't work together anymore and you could just be friends, how has that dynamic changed between you two? I think that it is so, so cool. And I know that that's just like such a like silly flippant thing to say, but I think that there's a big part of me as well, that when I walk out of what canceled was, and now I like, we'll see the old clips on my timeline and stuff, I look at those two girls and I'm just like so deeply, deeply proud of them for like going through all of that and like even just our own personal struggles. You know what I mean? Like she wasn't an alcoholic and like all of these just different things, like our own personal struggles. I'm just so proud of the lives that we were able to create for ourselves. And like, this is going to sound so stupid, but like right now she has these cameras in her backyard where they see all the like bunnies, like there's bunnies in her backyard. And I'll just like see her post about like her bunnies in her backyard. And like, I'm just like, I don't know how to explain it. It's so light and stupid, but it's such this big metaphor. Like you're just like chilling at home, your cortisol isn't on 10 and you're excited about these bunnies. And like, that's fucking awesome. Like this is what we deserve at this point. Yes. Not to be stressed and have everyone reading into what every single thing we're doing in that moment. It's just like it was too much. You got too much. Yes. Yes. I'm just, I'm genuinely so grateful for the other fucking side for the both of us. Like and, and, but I also, I feel like when I say that, that doesn't mean that like I didn't love that side too. I think that it's funny as I've been doing a lot of press across the last couple of weeks. I like have noticed how many people are sitting me down and trying to get me to say something, trying to like build this narrative. And I'm just like, and even just the way that in doing written interviews, people will still misconstrue the things that you're saying. And I'm just like, you're not going to get that from me. Like I even just noticed myself right now. I'm talking to you and I'm saying we're on the other side. And then I'm immediately being like, but that doesn't mean I didn't love that side. And it almost does make me a little more defensive because I'm like, you're not ever going to say that like I didn't love doing canceled. And you loved it. And then, and period, and end of story. Yes. And then just like we got to grow up across it. And I'm excited to be still growing up and touching the goddamn grass. She loves the grass. From your now lived experience, and I'm not actually even just talking about, you know, you and Brooke, just your whole career having friends in the industry and different interpersonal dynamics with women. What is your interpretation now in this phase of your life of like, why society is so fixated on creating competition between women? To be honest with you, Alex, I don't know. I don't know if people are projecting things that they have felt or whatever, or if there is just this internalized misogyny that like we will forever have to like work through, or if people just want that like want to see that for entertainment purposes, or what it is. And it's not even just competition always. It's just simple things that women do. Like, you know what I mean? Even the like business woman of it all, like if you're loud on what you want, or if you want to like direct your team and direct your employees, like no one would even blink their eyes if like a man did that in it. Like, I want to forever be the voice for that. And I feel like I've always been that way in my career, even from story time, even at that time, I myself worth was so low, I didn't for a long time up until this era really look at myself as a role model at all. I couldn't I didn't like myself enough or believe in myself enough. But now when I look back at my career, I think one of the messages that I was always trying to say is that like, society wants a woman to shut the fuck up so badly. Like, as the end, we have to band together as women and double and triple and quadruple down on the fact that like, no, we're not. I know it's so it's you're so right, Tana. And I had shared that with you at lunch. I was like, it's I feel like I keep having the same conversation with people. Like you and Michelle Obama. The dichotomy of this. Like you and like talking with Michelle Obama. It's so incredible, though. It's so good. No, it's so good. No, it's literally she's gone. She's gone. She really is so good. But it's like, I feel like I've had this got Shonda Rhimes, like Washington, Ellen Pompeo, like, like, good all. Like I've had so many conversations with so many women who have come forward to be like, guys, we will we all so we all know this now. Yes. And now what? And I feel like that's what I'm trying to figure out in my own journey. I shared that with you at lunch of like, what is the next iteration of like, I think we're all aware of the double standard. I think we're all aware of how we love to pit women against women and how it's such an easy narrative. So why is nothing changing? I think that's kind of it's almost getting worse. It's almost getting so much worse with the short form content. Like just every day. That's why I really don't. I think people would be surprised to know that I really am not opening and scrolling TikTok. Like I post I deleted the app. Yeah, like it just I don't and sometimes I will. Yeah, like now and again, but it makes me so sad when I open it up and it's like, what new woman are we hating today? And then I scroll and it's like, you need to buy this thing or your like your self worth is low. You need to buy this thing to fill this unfillable void consumerism, the conspirator, like the conspiring against everything. It's like Jim Carrey's like probably not a clone and Selena Gomez is also probably not a clone. And like also we'll never know. So why are we spending our time on that when we could all band together and talk about all the actual, actual, actual, actual problems in the world? Like, like, oh my God. Let's talk about privacy though, because I feel like in this new era with you, there has been a clear shift like we're talking about of getting involved less in drama, not scrolling as much, not participating maybe as much and actually going out touching grass, sharing a little bit less of your life in a way that feels invasive maybe. Yeah. Having done it for so long and like living for views and the game, how does it feel weird? It's, I want to say it's just different. Yeah. Because I think that the first time I ever found a form of therapy was sitting down in front of a cracked iPhone five and filming a YouTube video and seeing, seeing the comments and the people. It was the first time I'd ever felt seen. It was the first time I'd ever felt heard. It was the first time point blank. I didn't want to kill myself when I found that through the camaraderie with my viewers and I always say to my girls out there, like our relationship isn't that parasocial because I've shared it all. Obviously, if you're showing up to my front door, we might have to have a talk. Okay. But our relationship isn't parasocial because I've shared it all and like we have these same issues, whether it's familial issues or sobriety issues or, you know, becoming a good person, not just being born one. Like, you know, I, and I think I will always share that. And if anything, I think that brand safe is the most vulnerable I've ever been. Like it's, it's not that I'm just going full private, bought like consumer brand safe mode. Like it's not that if anything I'm sharing more about my childhood and more about these things that are going in my book and more about how the industry like fucked me over. I think it's just like, it's just different. I, there is more privacy and discretion in all of the things that I'm sharing. And I'm trying to, again, it's intention versus attention and just like, you know, it's a great switch though. And even right now, as soon as I'm done with call her daddy, I'm getting on a plane to Hawaii for like three weeks. And I'm just going to go sit in my place there and I'm going to shoot some solo episodes on the grass and I'm going to like talk my shit and still giggle, but it's just different. And it's, I'm excited about that. You know, also like before I was doing so much in LA and then I had so much to talk about about what I was doing in LA. And now it's like, I'm more in such a reflective recalibrated period where I'm not really trying to go just personally garner so much more lore. If anything, I'm looking back on so much and I'm looking back on it kind of out of the end, out of the woods, you know, and that was what I wanted this podcast to be. It was, was to feel like 2am conversations with me and from everywhere. I think I will forever be the most inspired at 2am. That comes from being a Vegas girl. I'm a nighttime person. I'm the most inspired then. And now I, it can be 2am and I can be stoned in bed with Makoa like talking about, you know what I mean? Our views on life and parenting and all these like random things and like just that like freedom is what defines this era now for me. Our sponsor today is Brothers Cider. I think we all can agree at this point that the best memories are made in person and not on screens. There's nothing better than when one text turns into a group chat, which then turns into like, okay, everyone time to come over and suddenly it's a whole thing and you're having the time of your life. No overplanning just everyone showing up as they are. And that's exactly the vibe that brothers bring. Brothers Cider is all about real fruit and real flavor and that IRL energy you just can't fake. It's a little unexpected, but it always makes for a refreshing addition to any get together, whether you're throwing a last minute hang, a house party or just something that somehow ends up being way bigger than you ever planned. It's intentionally different in the best way possible. Seriously, Brothers Cider has joy in its DNA. It was born at Glastonbury Festival, so it's rooted in music, spontaneity and just honestly having a good time with whoever's down. Next time plans come together out of nowhere, look out for brothers and bring a little more real life joy into it. Grab brothers for your next get together. It's a brothers thing. Sobriety. How long have you been sober? A little over a year and a half. Congratulations. Thank you. It's amazing. It's the best. That was so beautiful. Someone came up to us while we were having lunch in the industry and was just like, oh my god, you are such an inspiration. Like I've now gotten sober and that moment it was so cool to watch that. Very different from all of the moments you and I had in the past. Very different from that catch dinner. But I want to talk about how that, like that decision, you had built such a party girl image and that was your brand. Like was there any part of you that was like, do I just self-sacrifice in order to like keep the brand going? Yes. I was self-sacrificing for a long time unknowingly, you know, and absolutely. My identity was so deeply intertwined with being that version of myself. And I, there were, it was one of the biggest transformative periods of my life for that reason because I was like, oh my god, no one is going to listen to me. I deeply believe these ideologies that no one was going to listen to me. No one was going to care. I wasn't going to be interesting. I wasn't going to be funny. I wasn't going to be social. I wasn't going to be all of the things and I was going to lose everything that I had amassed. Had I like became sober and boring, I thought sober equated to boring. I thought sober equated to unfunny. I thought sober equated to so many things. And I thought that being the girl with the testimony was corny. I thought that it was like, oh my god, how embarrassing and like just all those things. And the reality of it all was like being the girl with the testimony and the girl who like loves being sober is the coolest thing in the world. And like it was very cool in the beginning to start seeing that as well. Like Brooke and I were doing a meet and greet in Amsterdam and this girl came up to me, tears in her eyes. They were so blue. They were so piercing. She grabs my hands and she looks at me and she says, I want you to know my parents would not have a daughter if it wasn't for you. And you got me sober and it was just like mo and we hugged each other and it was just this moment where I started to realize like now not only have I like done this for myself and my the fans are so fucking amazing and reassuring me that they do care about anything that I have to say and that all these ideologies weren't true, but also that I'm like helping this generation believe that like you can be sober and still dynamic and interesting and still have fun. That's another huge thing you think like, oh my friends are drinking and I'm not going to like make new friends and like I'm not going to have any fun in these environments anymore and like all these things and not true. I wish I had just done it sooner, but I couldn't poor thing. How did getting sober affect your relationships? It made them so much better. Jesus Christ! Like just I became a person I was proud of. I don't think I was ever a person that I was proud of. I don't think I was a friend, a businesswoman, a girlfriend, anything that I was proud of and like that did help so much with Makoa and also a Mari and all my friends where it's like, wow, I'm doing things with them now that I'm going to remember forever and I'm like, it's so meaningful. I get to do all these meaningful things and I get to show up for them and I get to like just be this person that I always wanted to be, but my traumas were holding me back. Did it end any relationships for you because you're in LA and I'm sure partying was a huge source of relationships for certain dynamics? Yes. I almost felt like I was like an e-network casting director and I was recasting eras of my life. I was like, you're out, you're in, you're out. Because you wake up, like you wake up and you start seeing your life and it's no longer in black and white and for so long, I think that I cared so much. It's not that I actively chose to care, but I was choosing entertainment value over morality. Like if you're a good time and we're getting drunk together and whatever, like that was as far as it went for me and I don't think that I have the capacity to, I was trying to keep myself alive. Like, you know what I mean? Like so it's like, I wasn't caring, like I couldn't, I didn't have the bandwidth to like really care about morals and all of these people around me and all of these things and yeah, I woke up and I realized I outgrew so much and that's okay. You know, and it's no bad blood to any of those people. It's like, I hope you go, maybe you need to also maybe get silver and I hope that you also build a beautiful life for yourself, but it's not going to be from my living room. You know, your boyfriend, Makoa, before meeting him, you had kind of talked about like unhealthy behaviors that you were obviously so used to in relationships. What were some of those that you would maybe tolerate in previous romantic relationships? Oh my God and shout out to my birth father, right? Yeah. Um, like, I think that I didn't realize this at the time, but my childhood made me believe that love was something you had to earn and that love was a roller coaster that like you had in these low moments, you were just working for the high ones again and toxic love is so similar to me to addiction, to drug addiction because you're like in these lows and you're chasing the next hit of the highs and like whatever. And I didn't believe that like someone could love me unless I had to work for it and earn it and it fostered such toxic relationships and attachments. And I think that I a lot of unrequited love where I loved people who maybe didn't love me back because I was just so happy to have that like attention or that thing I could fight for or whatever that is. And it really wasn't until I met Makoa that I realized how my ideals towards love were so toxic. And the first like year of our relationship was also him patiently sitting beside me while I unlearned a lot of things and had to become a different partner that I had never been before. Dude, that's so real when you have someone who is not used to the toxic, but they're able to be patient and a rock enough to like hold the space for you to and he's like, I'm not going anywhere or like I'm not why would I do that? Why are you thinking I would do that? And you're like, I don't know. Oh my God. And you look back at your past and you don't have, you are not on speaking terms with either of your parents. No. Okay. And did that what happened with that lawsuit? Well, that lawsuit was crazy. Yes. I mean, I can. I've talked about it a decent amount, but like it was actually, it was funny. It was right around the time that you and I did our Colorado episode. I woke up one day to my parents were suing me for slander for what I had said about them on my MTV show. And it was just very funny to me because the MTV show to me was like rainbows and butterflies in comparison to what my actual childhood was like. I think I detailed maybe negative 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.1% of what my childhood was actually like on that show. So for them to be suing me for slander for that, I'm like the gall, the wherewithal, like, you know, and then they had a pro bono lawyer, which meant they had no money, which meant that the lawyer, you know what I mean, only got paid if they won the case. So they're, they're fighting this huge case. And it was the most hands down traumatizing period of my life. It was, but it, it did reaffirm to me because I think that from the moment I got my first ads and checked, that's all I was to them and that money. And that's why my 18th birthday was the greatest day of my life because from 15 to 18, it was just tumultuous fighting for what I had earned. And they didn't believe in me. They were narcissists to the core. So they didn't believe in me at all. And we're telling you, don't make this YouTube channel. Like you're embarrassing. Why are you doing this? Whatever. And I'm like, I'm trying to get out. I believe in me, you know? And then the second I make money, it's like, she's a star because she's just like us. And I'm like, no, it's, I'm trying to be everything that that's, but that's narcissism. They're sick, you know? Of course. And it did reaffirm to me that that was like all they ever wanted was that money. And it was able to be a finite point for me. Cause that was the moment that I finally went no contact. And where I was like, and it wasn't until we were no contact, I said, I ended up settling in that case though, which sucked for me really bad. And I was talking about this actually with Amari yesterday in the car weirdly, because basically I was not mentally strong enough at the time. And it was during COVID. And I will always be very thankful for that because it was all via zoom. And I can imagine how much more the trauma would have been had it been in person and I had to face them. And I had to call every person and teacher and everyone from my childhood to get them to try to make cases for me and medical subpoenas and all of these things. And then it would have gone public. And I think that I couldn't have handled that. And their lawyers were so awful, you know what I mean? Like, like my dad was in the Vietnam war and they're sitting there saying like, you really think that everyone's going to believe you who just does stuff for views over a war veteran? Do you think that like, and then that's the like pain of being like, what if no one ever believes me? And finally, I came to the conclusion with my lawyers that I was going to kill myself, whether intentionally or I just overdosed at that time to like whether intentionally or unintentionally, you know, I was this, it wasn't sustainable for me sanity wise to continue to do it. So I had to write them a big fat fucking check. And it that hurts in so many ways too, because it was everything that I had earned so hard trying to get away from them and like all of those things. And, you know, I look back at those now sometimes with a little bit of regret because me now would fight it. Me now would fight out, but I wasn't me now. And I wasn't capable. And like, you know, it is what it is, I guess, but I'm so sorry though, Tana, because like hearing that it's like knowing where you were at in your life at that point, having met you and recorded with you and everything that you were going through, like the fact that you had to write the check in order to walk away, it kills you inside because it's almost accepting defeat, but it's not. It's like, just listen to what you just said. It allowed you to keep your sanity in your life and you had to get away from those fucking people. And I had to just stomach that like that's what I was to you. You're never going to take accountability. And I think I spent so much of my life living in this hope that they would wake up one day and take accountability that they would wake up one day and be the parents I wanted them to be. And it just wasn't the truth. So I think that everything happened for a reason in that way to protect me from it. And it is funny even now in this era of life, I just spoke to them for the last and final time since then, because my birth mother is about to die. And that was a big thing. It was so interesting across doing brand safe. I'm doing all these things that I'm so happy about, but I'm going through one of the deepest struggles of my life because no contact is one thing, but death is so finite. And knowing that we just never got that, we will and we never will in this lifetime. And we, you know, but I, I worked through that, I got a lot of therapy through that and worked, I'm still working through it actively. And it's, it is one of those things where it's an unfillable void. And I spent so long trying to fill the void with everything Los Angeles and everywhere else had to offer, right? And eventually you have to make friends with that void and know that it's always a shadow in the room. And you see that you see the parents at the park with their kid and it breaks your heart a little bit. Or, you know, you see different things like that. Makoa was just teaching me how to ride a bike and it ended up bringing up all this trauma for me of like, I never got to learn this. And it was this big metaphor for my life that I was just robbed from all the things because I was like, in writing my book, I'm almost noticing that like I had to be an adult. And then now I'm getting to be a child. It's almost this Benjamin Button effect of like, I had to like raise myself and like figure it all out. And I was robbed of a lot, but I made peace with it. I really, you know, I'm gonna be a great fucking kick-ass mom. You are and I can't wait. You also have made so much of yourself. And from what it, what I know from like the friends that you keep and your boyfriend and the people around you, like, there are so many people so proud of you. It's very sweet. But I understand the feeling of wanting that from your parents. Like that's like the ultimate feeling when your parents are proud, but also recognizing like, if they're not capable of seeing how incredible you are and just seeing you as dollar signs, then they can go fuck themselves. And I think, and they call for a Maury's family. I mean, I don't know where I would be. They took me in and they showed me holidays can be a day where you aren't screaming at the top of your lungs. And then, you know, I always say that they have dedicated their lives to adopting me and putting band-aids on the wounds they didn't create effortlessly, effortlessly, effortlessly with all of the, they give all of their time. And they, you know, I'm a steward. They made me understand what it's like to have a mother and a father and siblings and love and that family love is unconditional. And I'm just, I'm going home from Mother's Day right after this. And it's, I'm so grateful for this life. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't change a damn thing. You know, and it's, it's so impressive what you've built. It's also so incredible. I think people love seeing you with Makoa because you can just feel how light you are in that relationship. And I think we obviously have seen a lot of your relationships in the past. And the rapper phase and like, baby, you were never marrying the rapper. Baby, there is no plane. Like literally no, but how do you think Makoa and you and like your life, like what do you guys talk about for your future? Cause you just said like, I'm going to be a great mom one day. Like, have you talked about marriage? Have you talked about kids? Like, I mean, even as I'm talking about all these memories, like even as I was saying, like as we were just talking about, you know, not having my parents there to like celebrate or be there for me or anything. Like I remember there was this night on the canceled tour where we had just done this show to thousands and thousands of people and we had ended one of the runs and it was our last show. And I got back to the hotel room and everyone else is like celebrating and I just got in bed and I sobbed because I was like, it's sad to me, you know, that like, that there are moments that like, I wish I had parents, like, you know, that they could have been there and seen this and were capable of that. And he would just hold me and like, tell me everything is going to be okay. And like the way he's extended his incredible, huge, awesome, perfect. They're perfect. I love them so much. His family to me and made me feel like he'll always say that, you know what I mean? You have family and my family, like they love you like their own as well, you know, and like just even when I had to call and talk to my parents for the last time, kind of recently, he sat there right beside me and he was sobbing. He was sobbing as if it was his own pain. I can't really like talk about that one without starting to cry because it's like you love me so deeply and so intrinsically that you are sobbing next to me because you feel the pain for me. He is the best man I've ever met. And I love him so much. Like I'm just, I'm so excited for our future and our life together. I really am like, and it's very cool just talking about getting married and having babies and how much fun even Buster or like foster dog ended up being this crazy like, like we've been parenting little Buster and like talking about how different we are in our parenting styles and how those will like come together, you know, and just like, it's very cool. And it is funny. The second you're in a happy, healthy relationship, you're like in the grocery store and the checkout person is like, when are you getting married? Like no one can stop. And like, I think that I just, I want to do that all at a point in my life where I can dedicate my life to it. I think some people can just pop out kids and catch a vibe and whatever. And that's amazing. But I think with everything I've been through, I'm very, I want to be so intentional. I want to read every book on parenting. I want to know everything because like, I will die trying to be the mother that I never had, you know, and like, I just, when we're ready, we're going to be so ready. Tana, I'm excited. I am so happy for you. I just like, seeing how you light up and I, like with Makoa and not even just in the relationship, but yourself, like how clear-headed you are about also like, you do deserve to be selfish in this new phase of your life. Like, you do deserve to just enjoy it. Enjoy your boyfriend, enjoy your life, enjoy your new podcast, enjoy all the things. Peace. Peace. A whole lot of peace. Like just have peace, quiet grass, trees, nature, Hawaii. Yes. Like you deserve it because you've been through the fucking mud in a lot of ways, literally. And I think that you've done, I think you've done such an incredible job. The way that you've handled yourself, and I agree. It's like, I know that everything you have done on the internet isn't perfect. I have not been perfect either, but what you have made of what you were given and what you have now come to be, like, I think that's why also people fucking love you so much. It's like, we've seen every version in this brand-save era. It couldn't be less boring. Like, we're, I'm thrilled. I'm like, what's she going to do? Like, it's really cool to see you in this era. Thank you so, so, so much for saying that because that's the thing is I think I'll always be unfiltered and all of these things that I'm so excited to have so much fun in this era, but it is just, it is different. Like even right now, as we're talking, I'm just thinking about all of these different things. You know, I did make all the mistakes. I think I had to learn morality my own way and a lot later, I definitely like did a lot of crazy stuff, but like, that's why I'm so thankful for all of the eras because this is the first time in my life where I am going to sit down and I want to help the girlies in every single way, you know, to just be like, with whatever cards you are dealt. That's what brand safe means to me is that you can wake up at any point and you can decide that you want to be different and perceive differently and just like, and you can do that as a woman because I think people are so uncomfortable when a woman evolves. It means like, oh, so the other version of you was fake. I experienced that so much when it was like, I didn't want to talk about sex forever. And then people are like, oh, so was that or this and it's like, wait, but what if both can be true? What if the party era of Tana was so who she was and now she's ready to evolve and change? And isn't that the goal of life? Yes. And it's such a societal pressure towards women to feel like once you've sat in one bucket that you must croak in that same bucket. And it's just, it's not a fact and it's not true. And I'm so excited to just like continue to hammer that message in and yeah. Our sponsor today is Brothers Cider. I think we all can agree at this point that the best memories are made in person and not on screens. There's nothing better than when one text turns into a group chat, which then turns into like, okay, everyone time to come over and suddenly it's a whole thing and you're having the time of your life. No overplanning just everyone showing up as they are. And that's exactly the vibe that Brothers bring. Brothers Cider is all about real fruit and real flavor and that IRL energy you just can't fake. 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At all and after protected, T's and C's apply, selected hotels only. See website for details. Episode one is out now, a brand safe. How does it feel to start this new project IP era, like all of it? I think it's so cool because I've been saying this to everyone, like in our internal meetings, where like this is the first time in my life where like if this shit gets seven views, I'm stoked on the seven girlies who still care what I have to say. And like I said, I'm getting on a plane to Hawaii and like it's just, it's going to be so great to just sit there and like look at what we've done. And I'm so grateful for my team. I cannot stress that enough. So much changed across these past six months where I wanted girls and gays only. I wanted women. I wanted no man in power. We have Kyle. He's our only straight and we love it's the girls gays and Kyle, but just I'm so proud of these people. I look at all of them and I'm like, I wouldn't be able to do this without you and I'm so inspired by you. So I'm so grateful to be working with like such good, honest people that I crafted from all of these different eras of my life and like got to have them together. And I'm just like genuinely so deeply grateful that there is a girl out there somewhere who sees herself in me, whether that's the parents, whether that's a sobriety, whether that's the thousand million eras and lives and lore and crazy girl to maybe a little less crazy girl pipeline that like are supporting me and want to listen. I'm just, it is overwhelming gratitude. I think my team is like, Tana, stop thanking us. Like that every day I'm like, I'm just so grateful for like what this is and gets to be, you know, I think that it's such a testament also to just how lovely it is to grow up. Like as women, we're like so scared to not be in our early twenties and like be this like youthful little thing. And I'm so happy I'm not there anymore. Oh my God, you couldn't pay me a billion dollars. You couldn't. Like there's nothing to get me to go back to being any version. I think that step one to accepting, aging as a woman is watching sex in the city because they are the perfect, perfect example that you can throw on a Cunty Manolo Bologna and continue to thrive with more wisdom as you get older. And it's so cool to like have to use all of the experience because that's what your early twenties are for falling down and getting up a thousand times, being an absolute idiot moron and making a million mistakes and dating the gremlins and being too drunk and like all those things. But like it's so cool. And it's not always easy. I think 27 for me was a huge year of feeling anxious and, you know, transforming from one version of myself into another. And like, it was the first time in my life that I did feel so much insecurity and all of those things, you know, like, but now that I'm here, it's like, I'm so grateful. Like, it's such a testament. I agree to just like everything I feel like we talked about today was starting this on two women going to lunch together and being so open in a way that again, I think we couldn't have been in our early twenties with each other. Like, I think we said that a million times at lunch being like, oh my God, like I can't imagine us having this level of depth and conversation together. And I think it took time. And I think that's to anyone watching because I know I have like very young listeners and then I have older listeners like we have Gen Z and millennial here. It's like, it is so fun in your early twenties, but also if you're in the trenches and you're feeling like, fucking shit right now, just know, no guys, we are telling you it gets so good. Like it gets so good. Like, I'm not to brag, but it gets so much better. It really does. And so like enjoy it, but don't be stressed. Don't be stressed. Yes. And just like the mistakes and all of those things, like I can't stress to people enough in your early twenties, you have to give yourself such an immense amount of grace because like you were like low key just a child. Like you're just figure, you're figuring shit out. I made every possible mistake. I was so many versions of myself that I wasn't proud of and I would beat myself up for and everything, but like the grace is so important because all of those lessons were so tangible and like now they are also applicable to the life that I'm living and that I, the life that I feel at home in and the like, why do like the 22 year olds like not have the like hair issues that we had. Alex Cooper, everything. We were, we were really figuring it all out. Silver, purple hair I showed up to your home. What? No. And I'm saying this to myself. I'm not, I think that you looked beautiful, but like put the purple shampoo down and mine would always be like that the extensions would go super purple and then the other hair was like this weird brown gray. It was the tracks in my head. It was so bad. We couldn't figure it out, but now all these 22 year olds, they're like, they have hair. They all the 22 year olds have hair. What is the bit? Jack, Jack? Is that his name? I was Jack, Jack for literally years of my life. Like being bald is not the cabbage patch kid. It was a little dingy and then just tracks, tracks, tracks. I'm so grateful that we figured out our tones. I really think this is your tone. I knew I'd get it. I feel like we figured out we went a little darker. And I was fighting that like the plague. Like, Oh my God. It's like, I could have posted a TikTok with like a toe missing and someone would have been like, well, this would be easier if you were brunette. And I was like, I was fighting it so hard and like they had a point. It looks phenomenal. I love you. I am so happy we did this, Tana. I'm so happy we did this too. And I just can't thank you enough. Alex, it like I said this in the beginning of this episode, but right now as I'm doing so much of this press, it would have been so easy for you to sit down and it would have gotten the clicks and all of the things to try to flip or spin some narrative or make something. And like, I'm just so grateful that like you really wanted to sit down and just have a conversation like woman to woman about like the things we want to talk about and treating me like a person and not just a headline. And that goes back to our intention versus attention. And like, I just, I'm beyond grateful for this conversation. What I did say to you, and we can end on this also, it's like, it is so hard to be a woman in this industry. And I am not complaining. We are so beyond privileged. It's fucking insane. But it is fucking hard to sustain a career as a woman in this industry. That is just a fact. And I think that we have the platform to spread such an important message to all of the women out there who are dealing with all of the intricacies of just being a woman completely. And I also think it's like, we in positions of power or whatever, considering where you look at it from, we both are saying like, no guys, we've, I have, it is fucking hard. So I can only imagine how many other women are going through this at many different levels. But I do think that something I really took from our lunch and this was like, it's so nice to have a friend in this industry. But it is so nice to have someone that you're like, oh, you're going to be around for forever, Tana. I fucking know it. And bitch, I'm planning on it too. So why not? Cockroach energy. Cockroach energy ride together and lift each other up and be like, I got you, whatever you need. And I think that had we tried to form a friendship in different eras, the intentions would have been different. It would have been like, people love these views and like, at least for me, and like all of these things. And like, I would have been fucking no showing shit and late and drunk and hammered and now it's all the things. Yes, exactly. Like it's just, it is so beautiful to foster a pure, beautiful, like new start for us. And I, I love this new start. I kind of love this too. Yeah. Okay, brand safe out now. Go binge her. It's going to be every Saturday. Yes. Come hell or high water. She's not going away. I'll be consistent. Tana, Mojo, I love you. Thank you for coming on Color Daddy. Thank you so, so much for having me, Alex Cooper. So good.