#65 Meredith

Pushkin. We have quite a story for you today, but before we begin, a warning. This episode contains themes of drug use. Listener discretion is advised. Oh, finally, I wanted to tell you about my billboard in Times Square. Oh, wow. You're jelly. You want a billboard too. I would love. I feel like you like it. What gives you that impression? Your relationship with being famous. I'm sure it's something as an artist that you. Wait, hang on a second. Did you just say that I was famous? No. It sounds like you did and something of an artist. I said, you want things to be famous and your relationship to wanting to be famous. Do you remember? Do you remember? Are you recording? Because I said, do you remember? I'm asking. I'm recording you in my memory. Am I going to hear this on the radio? You're definitely not going to hear this on the radio. Oh, I totally acted without a radio because it's a podcast, right? You know that I do a podcast. I love the news. Yeah. Am I on speakerphone? No. Because you know when you put someone on speakerphone, you're supposed to tell them. From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Meredith. Right after the break. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Disney's Zootopia 2 is the highest grossing animated film of all time. It's also the source of the strangest Hollywood story you have ever heard. I'm Malcolm Gladwell and on my podcast, Revisionist History, we're telling a story that invites so much absurd speculation that we're going to have to tell it across two episodes. You will almost certainly feel compelled to seize the Zootopia 2 for yourself. And if you already have, you may need to see it again. Listen to our bizarre two-part series on Revisionist History, wherever you get your podcast. I consider myself a fair person. If a plumber enters my home, I offer him or her a cup of coffee. When presented with a bowl of restaurant mints, even when unobserved, I make sure to leave a few for the next guy. And if you have the good fortune of eating tapas with me, you should know right now, you'll be eating at least half the plate. So in Meredith, a fellow Minnesotan asked me to weigh in on a matter of fairness, I was raring to go. And so it is on a sunny day in late March that I find myself pulling up to Meredith's. Hi! Jonathan in the flash? Yes, it is. Hello. Nice to meet you. Hi. Meredith ushers me inside. I thought you'd have like bigger hair. I have no hair. Really? Is it always been that way? I was born bald, yeah. As Meredith acclimatizes herself to my unexpected baldness, we settle in. Okay. I got a cup. I got a cup. How much coffee have you had today? Can you tell? Meredith fetches her fourth cup this morning and I have a look around. She just moved in here three months ago, but the house is already feeling homey. You have a quote from the Dalai Lama on the... This was a gift to me from my Galentines party. There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called yesterday and the other is called tomorrow. So today is the right day to love, believe, do and mostly live. Well, no offense to the Dalai Lama, but I've built a career on the idea that something can be done yesterday. Or at least about yesterday. And so I have Meredith tell me about her past misfortune, which all began, she says, three years ago on a Saturday morning. You have to understand that, A, I'm a sweet tooth. Okay. And the second really important piece of information is that my sister-in-law owned a candy store. This sister-in-law routinely sent boxes of candy to Meredith's three children. And because of the whole sweet tooth thing, Meredith would tell her kids to keep the candy in their room. That way, she'd only have access when she was in their rooms tidying up. The agreement even had a name. I would take what I would call the candy tax as a price of me helping them clean up their room. And cleaning up is what Meredith was doing on the Saturday morning in question. She was in Aiden's bedroom. Aiden is her son, 17 at the time. And Meredith was hunting for his leftover cereal bowls. When I saw on the table some peach rings, you know those like little chewy gummy candies? I know them well. They're really tasty. And I shoved them in my mouth like numb, numb, numb. Meredith finished Aiden's entire bag of peach rings, candy tax. From there, she moved on to her daughter's room to continue cleaning. And it was about 30 minutes later when I started to feel a little bit, you know, like a little bit, something's not quite right. At that moment, a thought popped into Meredith's mind. What if the peach rings weren't just peach rings? Um, maybe a small detail. Most times, peach rings look like orange and white. Yeah. These were purple and blue. But I didn't think anything of it other than, oh, it must be a different version of peach rings. Maybe they're flavored blueberry. Sure. Those blueberry flavored peach rings. Then there was also where she'd found the blueberry flavored peach rings. In a Ziploc bag. They don't usually come in a Ziploc. Oh, they don't usually come in a Ziploc. How big was the Ziploc bag? Like those little... Like the kind you would put drugs in? No, Jonathan, the kind you put a sandwich in. Meredith just thought Aiden had put the gummies in a Ziploc, too. You know, preserved freshness. But now, as her head began to swim, she thought a new thought. And in the moment of time, it took me to think that thought, my knees buckled. I dropped on all fours. Because whatever was coming for me, hit me like a freight train. A freight train, freighted with boxcar after boxcar of gelatinous marijuana. My son comes running up the stairs, and I yelped to him. What was in those gummies? All he says is, what were you doing in my room? I then say, what was in those gummies? He says, how many did you eat? And I was a member of Trambling. I said, all of them. How much was in those? He's like, mom? 25 milligrams each. Meredith had eaten four peach gummies. That is, 100 milligrams of weed. I'm the person that takes the gummy that somebody gives you at five and starts shaving it down. So I knew like two and a half is my limit. She'd ingested 40 times her limit. And then I start yelling, well, you just killed your mother. The next several hours, I can't only describe as kind of coming floating in an out of consciousness. I mean, I have moments of sort of dream like I was in a forest running and tree roots started coming up and wrapping around my legs. I mean, that's not fun. Trees twist around your legs and are trying to suck you down to the earth. What is that? Meredith didn't know if she needed to go to the hospital. She wondered if she would die. She phoned a few friends to ask them to check up on her throughout the day. You know, by like, Boy's Dial. Because you weren't even capable of using the regular dialing. Jonathan, I couldn't move my fingers enough to get the right buttons. It's like laying there with a piano on you. Her friends later told her she kept repeating things like, am I going to be okay? And God helped me. All in all, 23 hours. Oh my God, that's like longer than labor. It felt, it felt in some ways eternal. Sometime around 10 a.m. the next morning, Meredith finally began to feel herself coming down. And with that, the anger set in. Anger at her 17 year old son, Aiden. Well, now we got to deal with the problem. You didn't know that he kept drugs in the house? No, I did not know. Meredith says she'd always had open conversations with her kids about drugs and alcohol. But for the kids to keep drugs in the house was not allowed. And on top of that, leaving them out in the open when he knew about the candy tax, how could Aiden have been so careless? And what made it all the more upsetting while Meredith was on all fours? Aiden flees. He's like, I got to go to work. And I'm just left here having to somewhat fend for myself. Was a part of you proud that you had raised a son who, you know, honored his work responsibilities? He was so committed to his work at P.F. Kang's that his mom took the back burner. You know, I probably did raise a kid with a good work ethic. I'll give him that. But here's the thing that three years later, Meredith still can't get over. Aiden refused to apologize. Instead, over and over, he uttered the same refrain. This is not my fault. Aiden felt like this was on you. Aiden, 100% felt this was on me. And that no other parent would be that clueless. Meredith admits she is the sort of person who often gets herself into these kinds of noodles. Oh, I've got to feel. I rescued a straight dog that was loose from a yard. What happened was Meredith's dog was routinely escaping her yard. And people around the area would post about it on next door, writing comments like, who can't control their dog? And Meredith, your dog is out again. She felt publicly shamed. And so, when she saw someone else's dog that was lost, it felt like a chance to reclaim the respect of her neighbors. And I proceeded to pick it up. You know, it was a 40-pound dog. And I took it and really thought that I was doing a good deed. As Meredith started walking home, the dog started jolting. Spasms of gratitude, perhaps? She got the dog home safely, made a post, and waited. Finally, the owner showed up. And I was expecting to be met with like, oh, I'm so happy that you got my dog. I've been worried sick about it. Well, it turns out that I had taken a dog from a home that had an invisible fence. Oh, that's why it was jolting. Yes, it was jolting, yes. And instead, it was, you took my dog from our yard, and you shocked it. And thanks. Is this why you had to move? It was probably a consideration. As for the drugging, however, Meredith doesn't think it was all her fault. This could happen to any of us. I even googled, like, looking for validation of like, oh, this happens all the time, right? Sadly, Meredith didn't find the validation she was looking for. A lot more stories about dogs. But you know what? I think this has probably happened to a lot more people, but there's maybe they're harboring some sense of shame about it. Just not talking about it. If it happened to you, you are not alone. If it could happen to you, beware. Okay? Maybe assess the color of the gummies, maybe assess. Sorry to interrupt, but who do you think you're talking to right now? A talking parents like me that wouldn't think their kid would have gummy candy in their room. The thing about people like Meredith, people who can laugh at themselves, is that it can be hard to know when they need to be taken seriously. Meredith can joke about the gummies, but it doesn't mean it wasn't scary at the time, or that she doesn't want some acknowledgement from Aiden. I keep waiting for this moment when he comes through the door. He says, mom, I've been reflecting a lot. And I thought about that time when this happened, and I just want to say, I get it, I'm sorry. Has he never, he never apologized? No, he's never apologized. Ironically, of my three kids, he is probably the most sensitive in terms of care and concern. So it was somewhat surprising to me that he could dismiss that experience so flippantly. Meredith has tried to draw the apology out, bringing it up once or twice a year. She tells herself it's an important teachable moment. She tells herself that Aiden's refusal to apologize reflects poorly on her parenting. So she keeps nudging him, most recently, in a canoe. It's the two of us. There was no escaping, and I went so far as negotiation. Okay, I started at 50-50. Meaning, percent of blame, 50% on her, 50% on Aiden. Aiden is an econ and computer science major, and Meredith was trying to speak his language. I went down to 80-20, okay? 20% on him. 20% on him. You wouldn't accept that. You would not accept that. At this point, I was like, well, now what do I have to lose? I went all the way down to 99-1. I'm looking for a shrapnel, okay, of accountability. But she hasn't even gotten that. For three years, Meredith and Aiden have been at a stalemate in terms of who should be held accountable. It keeps popping up, and nothing gets settled. Meredith has tried recruiting friends to adjudicate, but Aiden has always questioned their impartiality. So I thought a real independent objective third party might be the ticket to finding our path here, someone that could see both sides and talk empathetically with my son about accountability. Do you think it's something you could be able to like broker? While we're all familiar with the idea of a claim adjuster, what Meredith needs is a blame adjuster, someone who can adjust some blame onto her son and make him apologize. I accept the job, beg forgiveness once more from my baldness and ready myself to leave. When? You want to take it? Yeah. Meredith's phone rings. Hey! Hey! Hey! On the phone is Meredith's eldest daughter, Quinn. I'm here with Jonathan. Hi. Hello. The Quinn was out of town during the weed dosing catastrophe. She remembers it well. Oh, right. As long as we ever on the line, I ask Quinn if there's anything more I should know about. Quinn pauses, then asks her mother a question. Was this before after your airplane incident? Oh my god, Quinn. The airplane incident. What's the airplane incident? Enter exhibit B, the airplane incident. I need to have my side of the story on this, because there's some definite biases from my mom. This is Meredith's son, Aiden. And when I phone him up at college, he tells me that the gummy incident is only one of two accidental drugings in this family. My mom was on a business trip out to the UK in Scotland and then it's a birthday present I just like gotten to go with. Three months after the weed gummies, Aiden went on a trip with his mom. They were in the Amsterdam airport about to board the nine hour flight back home to Minneapolis. I knew she had like some sort of like sleeping aid. And I was like, oh, maybe I could like have some for the flight. Aiden's about twice Meredith's size. So when he asked, she figured it couldn't hurt to give him half of what she normally took. And then I just remember like being in the Amsterdam airport and I was like, man, I feel really gross right. Like I felt like pretty nauseous. When boarding started, Aiden was having a hard time standing straight. Like right as I handed my passport and ticket, I just completely pass out. He's behind me. And then I hear a crash as Aiden has collapsed into the stanchions. Basically what I remember was this kind of just like half conscious and she just like kind of grabbed me by the shoulders and she was like, we need to get together. You need to get on this flight. Hey, look at me. They're like, there's no way you are going on disflight. And you need to go to medical emergency or whatever. And I remember they like ran tests and like had the contact like poison control. Just like Meredith, Aiden was fine eventually. But also like Meredith, Aiden was disappointed by his mom's reaction. Does she accept blame for the incident? Has she ever apologized to you for that? I don't know. I don't want to flat out say no, but I'm like leaning more likely not. Aiden says when he first collapsed, Meredith was mostly focused on getting him onto the plane. Even if it meant dragging his still limp body down the jet way, weekend at Bernie's style. I would have expected that the priority is that I'm okay. Not like, oh, but we need to get on the plane. Great. Meredith wanted to keep things on track, which not so different from Aiden who hurried off to PF Changs. And to top it all off, when they eventually worry booked on a new flight, Meredith's ticket got upgraded. And guess who didn't offer that upgraded ticket to a certain somebody? I remember asking her, oh, did you ever consider like maybe if I got the seat for that flight? Like if you had been the one who was drugged. Yeah. And then she said, I was supposed to be home 10 hours ago, which like that behavior in that scenario was uncharacteristic. They're very good pals. This is Meredith's daughter again, Quinn. But I think they have a harder time like being soft around each other. When they get into agreements, both of them just like hard enough really quick. Quinn says Aiden and Meredith are both similar in their stubbornness, to which regarding the gummy incident, Aiden holds a hard line. He says Meredith is wrong about basic facts. Like for one thing, the drugs weren't out in the open, but rather stashed in an old iPhone box on a shelf. And he says he would never have left the house while Meredith was still panicking on the floor. It was only once she was panicking safely in bed that he went off to his job. Of which? I never worked at P.F. Changs. Aiden briefly worked at a Panda Express, but that was months earlier. The job he was rushing off to was his cattying job at a golf course. My son had to head off to go serve Chinese food. Does that sound like more gregious than so my son had to leave to hit the golf course? Um, I mean both of those when you say it like that, that just sounds like selfish. When I first got into this, I was certain that Aiden, and Aiden alone, was to blame. But now that I've spoken with Aiden, I'm not so sure. I'm still willing to adjudicate, but I'm starting to feel a bit out of my depth. Which drugging was worse? I don't know much about drugs. I couldn't tell you the difference between happy dust and happy powder. Lucky for me though, I know a medical expert. After the break, a very special guest, a very special doctor guest. It's Jackie.! Disney's Zootopia 2 is the highest grossing animated film of all time. It's also the source of the strangest Hollywood story you had ever heard. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and on my podcast Revisionist History, we're telling a story that invites so much absurd speculation that we're going to have to tell it across two episodes. We almost certainly feel compelled to seize Utopia 2 for yourself. And if you already have, you may need to see it again. Listen to our bizarre two-part series on Revisionist History, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello Jackie! No, this isn't a glitch in your podcast app. The episode is not starting over. But this is indeed my friend, Dr. Jackie Cohen. Dr. Jackie Cohen is a doctor, and I'm phoning her today in her expert capacity. I start with the airplane incident. So what do you think? You know what I mean? Is that a reasonable... Like, would you do that? Would you... I'm sure my pills are my fun. Of course not. Listen, I... Okay, it's not the worst thing she ever did. It's not the worst parenting moment, but it's certainly not up there. And the reason it's not up there is that, I mean, the only red flag to me in this is to come into you with her problem. So that's the first problem. That's the biggest litmus for you. Yeah. So basically, you didn't... I mean, by your logic, you think that every single person who has come to me in all these years is not well. By virtue of the fact that they have come to me for help. Look at our dear friend Mary Clote. Mary Clote came to me for help. She did? Yes, she did. There's an episode. Did I not help her to get her real estate license? Did I not? Okay, I'm not so lucky. Okay, yes, I know what's a good story. Okay, fine. You're right. You're absolutely right. Although Jackie concedes the point that not everyone who comes to me for help is certifiably deranged, she does think Meredith is certifiably undeserving of an apology. From Jackie's perspective, it's Aiden who deserves one. I'm totally the son on this one. I think his response is so appropriate. Like, you know what? It was on her to be like fishing around his room and consuming candy. Though when I tell Jackie about the seed upgrade... She had to have a knife. No, she didn't. She took it herself. She does seem to enjoy Meredith's Hutzba. I need some leaf chickadews. I don't think I can sleep it off. I'm stupid, right? That's what the kid felt. Yes, I'm totally with kids. Kids great, by the way. She does it on the ball. Hey, how are you? I'm good. As with any medical question, I need a second opinion. So after my call with Jackie, I consult with a second drug expert. Not a doctor per se, but a doctor of the streets. Are you in your underwear? Yes, sorry. This is my friend, Steve Marsh. If his voice sounds familiar, it's because he was the subject of another episode of this podcast. And as thus, by Jackie's estimation, unwell. Steve has done ayahuasca and peru, eboga in Gabon, and participated in the unofficial champions league of ecstasy at Bergheim in Berlin. Even though I pretty much don't know what any of these words mean, I do know that Steve has been breaking on through to the other side since his teens and hiding weed from his mother since he was in diapers. So I tell him the gummy story and ask for his take. I don't think he's really understanding what his mom went through, maybe. I've done the heroic dose of almost any drug you can name. And yeah, that's a serious dosage. So serious, Steve says, the 25 milligram gummies aren't even legal in the state of Minnesota. Steve himself has never taken 100 milligrams of edible said one time. But he sympathetic to Meredith's plight because of the time he, quote, dabbed weed, which he explains is inhaling a super high concentrate of THC. I had to sit on the side of a hill and our friend Marisa. Marisa had to come out back and gently rub my back, if I was having a panic attack, which I pretty much was. So I've been there before Meredith, I get it. It is helpless and catatonic and scary. For Steve, it's pretty cut and dry. Unlike Jackie, he believes it's Aiden who owes Meredith an apology. But to make sure he has all the information, I tell him the plane story too. I would argue that's nearly irrelevant, you know? On top of it, one of the tickets gets bumped up to first glass and she takes it. That's his her maternal right, I have to say. I just think that your mom ate your drugs, man. Like, why can't you get your head around that? You have to be responsible for your shit, man. After weighing Jackie's expert testimony and Steve's sort of expert testimony, I can only come to one conclusion. King Solomon like in its tit for tat-ness. Meredith and Aiden need to apologize to one another. And because two apologies require two apology, shamans, do you want to go there with me? Stir. After the break, apologies all around. Yeah, I want to know where this kid is getting his high power. We've got me a stew. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke. You may know me from Bravo's Summer House. I'm launching a new podcast called More Life. I want to learn from folks who are doing the work and from friends who've inspired me along the way. We'll talk the good, bad, and the ugly, but most importantly, the healing, reinvention, and self-discovery. I definitely don't have it all figured out, but none of us really do. That's why we're here. Listen to More Life on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes are out now. Emily said there's a really good restaurant near here called Royars or something. Broders, pasta brewers? Aiden is home from college for the week. And so, on a warm afternoon, Steve and I, in our capacity as independent, objective, third, and fourth parties, make our way to Meredith's. It's a great year. Is this the house? Yeah, that looks like it. The plan is to get in, get some apologies, and get out in time for an early lunch at Broders, or Broders, whatever it's called. Hi! How are you? Thank you. Let me see, right? Yeah. You've been briefed? I've been briefed. I've been briefed. Meredith welcomes us in. Aiden is seated on the far end of the living room couch. Meredith sits down beside him. Steve and I begin by trying to secure an apology from Aiden about the gummies. It's not like I served anyone a silver platter. Yeah, but hiding them sufficiently means your mom didn't overdose on weed. The thing is, I think I did not. But unsurprisingly, Aiden is defensive. I just think there's so many signs that like what have just should be red flags. But even if she missed them all, you're still responsible for the drugs. And if you can just admit that, then you can do drugs for the rest of your life. What for unevenness saying like, I'm sorry. At that point? I don't know. I think you probably worried. At this point? I think that just kind of ties back to the holding. Like, how much of the blame is that? Well, I don't know. I think we're caught up in like pie charts and ratio. Yeah, we totally are. I mean, I feel like it's just, you know, my mother got hurt because of something that I was a part of. Do you feel like you were hurt? That's it. Do you feel like you were hurt? I don't like... I mean, you saw me basically melt and freak out. Mm-hmm. And then you checked out. Which is, of course, how Aiden feels about how Meredith responded to him in the Amsterdam airport. A point he raises. It wasn't like, oh my god, I didn't know you okay. I just hear, we need to get on the flight. You're fine. I know, I know. Because honestly, I thought, you know, I love you, but like sometimes you're a little dramatic. That was... You're a little bit dramatic. Sometimes you're a little dramatic. And I thought, okay, how bad can it be? We're just going to Aiden's thinking about the face rings, right? Like, how bad can this be, Mom? Well... Do you guys realize that there's some stuff that's happening on both sides? A lot of stuff on both sides. But just when I'm starting to think there will be no sorry's. Meredith starts inching towards the light. I just felt so bad. I think I did feel like shame about it. And then making the apology more grand would just be somewhat underscoring my shame about it. Sure. I just was like, just can we just move on? You know? But the... I think your point is I missed your suffering. And I will apologize for not being there in the right way at the time. I'm sorry. Yeah. Like, I should have had more empathy for you in that situation. Aiden nods. But he still doesn't offer an apology back. So Steve offers a helpful push. So maybe what's going on here is just like, you're getting better at modeling apologies. Uh-huh. And now Aiden will go back and think about what a real, remorseful apology sounds like. Maybe. That's maybe the first time he's heard one. Like the gesture of apology. Could be bigger. Yeah, maybe just like is underrehearsed in the family, you know? When I spoke with Quinn, she told me that it's true. As kids, they didn't have many examples of what it looks like to say sorry and mean it. Which might be why Aiden is struggling so right now. You could acknowledge Aiden that maybe you're not good at that. Do you think you're good at apologizing from the heart? Probably not. Yeah. And maybe it doesn't have to happen today. But like, it's a good thing to acknowledge that, hey, I'm a kind person. I'm a good person. But I might suck at apologizing. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, like, because it's like, I mean, I could just like say it. And then like. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that my actions caused you harm. And I might. And that my irresponsibility was inflicted upon you. Thank you. You know, Remy originally, my motive or my sort of questioning of this was. Someday, you're going to be in some kind of a relationship, right? With some other person. But you're going to have to see things from their perspective and you're going to have to back down a little bit. No matter how convinced you are that you are in the right. It feels like Meredith is speaking from experience. I asked her about it later on, and she tells me that she was. She was thinking about her most recent relationship. It had just ended, and she says the situation could have used an apology. She wants her son to learn from her experience. That is, after all, what good parents want most. And so, you know, part of my like yearning here was like, how do I help you get there? My hope going into this was that Aiden would accept blame for the gummies and Meredith would own up for what happened in Amsterdam. A little quid pro quo and everyone goes home happy. And that did kind of happen, sort of. In the weeks after the conversation, I find myself thinking about this business of modeling behavior that Steve had brought up. If Meredith hadn't modeled apologies for her kids, it begs the question, who had modeled not modeling apologies for her? So I reached back out to Meredith to ask whether her parents ever said sorry to her. I don't think so. But at times it would have been nice, she says. By way of explanation, Meredith tells me about all the time she'd be left waiting after ballet class or school for her mom to pick her up. I just remember feeling like the last kid standing waiting for like an hour outside. Yeah. And I think she, I don't know what she was doing, but I kind of did the message was like, well, I kind of see what I'm, I'm a lower priority. It's funny now I think about me picking up my kids the horror that I would feel if I'm late, for like five minutes. Is it because like you remember that feeling of just waiting and feeling like, does anybody care? And it wouldn't come with an apology. No, I wasn't allowed to be angry about it. Right. You know, it was like, well, that's the situation. And you just got to like suck it up. Anything other than that would be dramatic. You know, did that somehow sort of translate down in the way raised my kids? I mean, Aiden's reaction to me overdosing on his gummies was suck it up, right? Which is exactly what I did to him. Like family heirlooms or the gene for color blindness, the value of apologizing is handed down. But if you didn't come from a family where there was space for all that, it's hard to create that space when you become apparent yourself. How can you give the thing you never received? I don't know the solution to that, but I do know that it can't hurt to keep trying. Do you think it's still possible to change? Like, you know, where you can have a relationship with the kids where you can apologize to them in the moment and they hear that, feel it. Can people change? Yeah. We can't change yesterday and we can't know who we will be tomorrow. No, Jesus, maybe the Dalai Lama is right. Today is the right day to love, believe, do and mostly live. And hey, if you choose to smoke a little of the good stuff along the way, just be sure to consult your pulmonary cardiologist first. Heavyweight takes no responsibility for bad trips. Only the good ones. The next day is the day when you're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. You're going to be able to get a good rest. We're going to decide if we're meant to easily try. We're going to be able to felt around for five to one. We're going to be able to think of things that accidently apply. We're going to be able to think of things that accidently apply. This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Steve Elaine and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our senior producer is Kaleela Holt. editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Ben Nathafafri, Daphne Chen, Alexandra Garrison, and Sam Reisman. For more Steve Marsh, you can enjoy his written work in Minneapolis St. Paul magazine. Emma Munger mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Additional scoring by Bobbill, Michael Charles Smith, Chris Zabrisky, and Virginia Violet and the Rays, our theme song is by the weaker than courtesy of Ebataf Records. Follow us on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast or email us at heavyweightatpushkin.fm. We'll be back next week with the final episode of the season. Disney's Zootopia 2 is the highest-grossing animated film of all time. It's also the source of the strangest Hollywood story you have ever heard. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and on my podcast Revisionist History, we're telling a story that invites so much absurd speculation that we're going to have to tell it across two episodes. You will almost certainly feel compelled to seize Utopia 2 for yourself, and if you already have, you may need to see it again. Listen to our bizarre two-part series on Revisionist History, wherever you get your podcast. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.