Louisa Dunne

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And for less than the price of one latte, I get all of this. Ready to make healthy swaps and become a member? Join Thrive Market with our link, thrivemarket.com slash TCATT for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 471 of the True Crime All The Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? I am doing amazingly. I'm so excited. We talked about it on Patreon, but the studio is coming together. I've had a few hiccups with not having what I needed, having to go out, order things. But I believe next week we will be in the new studio. Well, just remember I said measure twice before you cut. You did. But you decided to measure once and cut. And so now you need more material. Yeah. That was my problem. I misunderstood you, but I am excited about it. It's coming together nicely and I think it's going to look great. I think it's going to look really good. And, you know, that helps us out with putting some video on YouTube, but also that's a second episode every week. Yeah. And I know people have been clamoring for more content, so they're going to get it. Hopefully everybody's ready for it. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jabin Hussein. Hey, Jabin. Noah Nixon. Well, hey, thanks. And square. Lori Smith. Lori. Genevieve Roland. Ah, Genevieve. I love that name. Genevieve. Joe. Hey, Joe. Debbie Klein. What's going on, Debbie? And Stacey Oishi. jumped out at our highest level. Oishi. Yeah. I'm saying it different ways to hopefully encompass the correct version. Could you say, hey, Stace? Yeah, you can. I have to say the whole name, though. It's a lot of pressure on you. Everything's a lot of pressure on me. And if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Gia Pico. The Gia. So appreciate all the support we get. We have an episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved where we're talking about Angelica Gandara. She went missing in 1985 while making this relatively short walk from her grandmother's house to her home in Temple, Texas. And this is a little bit different as far as unsolved goes. You know, we're 40 plus years on, but authorities have identified what they've called two very strong suspects, but as of right now, no arrests have been made. So I think for people who normally can't handle unsolved, this one, you know, is fairly close, I believe, to being solved. So check it out. Give it a listen. Also wanted to remind everybody, you know, CrimeCon's coming up quick. I actually can't believe how soon it's, we're going to be there. We're going to be there before we know it. If you haven't made your plans and you haven't bought your tickets and you're going to, go to CrimeCon.com. Just make sure you use our promo code TCAT. That'll save you a little bit of money off your standard badge. Yeah. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? You know, I am. In June, 1967, 75-year-old Louisa Dunn was murdered inside her home in Bristol, England. The murder became one of the oldest cold cases in modern UK history. 58 years later, advancements in forensic technology helped authorities identify the killer. And we love advances in forensic technology, right? we talk about a lot of cases where, you know, that's how they're solved or on unsolved. We talk about that's probably what it's going to take to solve some of these really cold cases. Now, more often than not, we're in the U S talking about U S cases, but the same holds true for cases all around the world. And this is just another example of a case solved after almost six decades. Yeah, it's a long time. But thank goodness, right? They kept really good care of evidence. Yeah. And we'll get into all the particulars, but that's one of the things that always comes down to, right? First of all, what was collected? How was it collected? And then how was it stored? And based on all that, are they able to get a you know, a viable sample when it comes to DNA. Louisa Dunn was born in England in 1892 when Queen Victoria was still on the throne. Well, that's very British. Queen Victoria. Well, the, yeah, I don't know what that last accent was, but, uh, actually this whole episode is going to be very British because we are in England. In England. Yeah. In 1915, Louisa married Teddy Parker, a union leader and labor party counselor. They had two daughters named Edna and Iris. Teddy and Louisa were involved in local politics and their home was said to have been a hub of political activity. Sounds like it was a lot of fun. Maybe not sure how you're equating a hub of political activity with fun, but maybe, maybe that was fun to them. Got all those players coming and going, in, you know, just watch it, sitting back, taking it all in, learning from them. Well, and I can't help, but think about, you know, one of our favorite TV shows, Peaky Blinders, right? Takes place a little bit later than where we are in the story right here. But, you know, there is a lot of political things going on in the show. There is. You have a lot of people who are into communism in England at the time. Louisa's granddaughter, Mary Dainton, told the Guardian, Mom said Gran used to join in with the political chat that went on in the house. My grandmother supported my grandfather. She must have been in the position of a lot of women, where she ran the house and looked after the children while he went on with his career. And, you know, let's face it. I think that was the model for a lot of people, a lot of families going back into the early 1900s, all the way up to what Gibbs 1950s, 1960s until things started to change a little bit where more women were entering the workforce. And then it all, to me, it almost became like you had to have two incomes. Yeah, exactly right. Unless you had one person who was making a boatload of money. I mean, you think about today for so many people, it takes two incomes. It does. To make it. Teddy was considered a potential mayoral candidate, but he suffered a stroke and was hospitalized in the early forties. He died in 1945. In 1952, Louisa married John Dunn, a night watchman. John died in 1961. All right. So she was married a couple of times. You know, her husbands both died. In 1967, Louisa was living alone in her home in the Eastern neighborhood of Bristol. She was estranged from her family for unspecified reasons, but she did have a good group of friends in her neighborhood whom she saw regularly. She was a well-known figure in Easton. Neighbors often saw her on her doorstep watching people pass by. Oh, I love watching people passing by. It reminds me of my grandfather. I've probably said it on this podcast before, but he was the ultimate people watcher. Yeah. I mean, if he wasn't outside kind of scoping things out, he was in his like living room window, you know, looking through the blind. Yeah. He was so curious about what everybody was doing. And it was almost like a hobby. He didn't have a lot of hobbies. Right. I'll be honest with you. So that was kind of like his hobby. I used to, you know, back in the day when I'd go to lunch, we used to work at the old location. There's a place down there I'd go to eat lunch. A lot of times by myself, but it's something I was able to get lunch. Yeah. Because nobody else wanted to go with you. I get it. Yeah. I didn't want to say that, but thank you. But I go down there and I was eating. I'd be watching other people eating together and I'd be like making up what they're talking about. You know, I just make up my own mind. Yeah. As you were thinking to myself, man, I wish somebody would come eat with me. I will say my wife used to love to go to the mall. Right. I feel like nobody goes to the mall anymore, but back when the mall was a big deal. Right. She used to love to go to the mall and we would walk and she would just people watch or we'd sit on a bench and eat a hot pretzel, but she was mostly just people watching. Louisa lived a simple life. According to the guardian, she supported herself with her pension and her prized possessions were her books. Do you have a prize book in your collection? I mean, I guess I'd have to say, uh, you know, living on the edge, the Mike Gibson story. It's a pretty good book. Ghost written by Rex West. Yeah. It was like 500 some pages. It's a pretty deep read. Deep. Yeah. Deep is not a word I would use. On June 28th, 1967, Louisa's neighbors were worried when they noticed that one of her windows was open and they hadn't seen her outside. Neighbor Violet Allen climbed through the open window and found Louisa's body in the front room of her home. Louisa had been raped and died of strangulation and asphyxiation. And you and I always talk about people finding a dead body. Sometimes it's a loved one, a family member that has to be horrible. Sometimes it's a stranger. I still don't think that can be all that great, right? For that person, right? here you have a neighbor who has some familiarity with the victim that has to be very tough i think my greatest fear would be like what if no one noticed i was missing how long would i be laying there before being discovered well unfortunately it would probably be about a week before i checked up on you you know you're you're here the same night every week right and uh sometimes we talk in between recording sessions, but not always. And, you know, a whole week could go by before I would miss you. I mean, I'm not saying that to be mean or anything. It's just, if you didn't show up, then I'd be, I'd start to get worried. You'd text, but then would the text stop after I don't reply? Or would you take it to the next step and be like, reaching out to one of my kids, like, Hey. Yeah, I would probably do that. I don't think I'd drive up. You live pretty far away, actually. but that's good to know. I would definitely try to maybe reach out to one of your brothers or kids or something like that. So this is a violent scene, no doubt about it. Right. Right. Rape and murder. Authorities launched a large scale effort to find the killer. Investigators fingerprinted over 19,000 men in the area and they took 1300 statements. That's a big chore. to fingerprint 19,000 people. Yeah. Yeah. Because this is the 1960s, right? There's no technology where you can just put your fingers on a fingerprint reader. They, they would have had to have rolled them, you know, the old school with the ink and all that. I'm thinking, are they just grabbing people off the street as they pass by? Well, I don't know what the criteria was other than being a man. I guess if you were a man, you were being fingerprinted now, 1300 statements. That's, that's going to take quite a while too. Again, I don't know how they came up with the people who were going to be asked to do each of these investigators had a palm print on file that was found on a window at the back of Louisa's home, but there was no match. So I'm assuming when it said they were fingerprinting 19,000 men, they were also taking the palm print too, because that's what they had. Yeah. Now, does that mean that they then had to try to match all 19,000 of these? It sounds like it to me. Cause that is taking even more time. It was just last week, right? We talked about the state of Oklahoma not having a computerized way to search for fingerprint matches. So obviously in the sixties, they, they definitely wouldn't have had that. So you you back to the old reviewing the person prints against the lifted print And that a very manual process Yeah Very time consuming The case was reviewed in 2009 and 2013 but there were still no hits in the national fingerprint database. So obviously by that point, quite a bit of time had gone by, right? The case was cold to some degree, probably a large degree, but also by that time, computer systems and databases and all of that were a thing. And you wonder if the suspect in the case was thinking, I'm good. I don't need to worry. They're never going to find me. Yeah. I always wonder that because I think it's probably a mix. I think there are some people who are scared to death as time goes by and they're seeing on TV, right? That this technology or that technology is coming online. You know, how worried are they that, Ooh, they're going to finally catch me. Yeah. Cause I think after a certain period of time goes by, there's probably a big sigh of relief and you're not worried about it. Yeah. But then when the technology starts coming online, that's got to change it for you. Then you're wondering, man, did I leave a print? Did I leave anything there that could come back and bite me? And then does it become kind of that waiting for the knock on the door? And if it is to me, that's a really tough way to live. Now you earned it. You deserve it because of what you did. In June, 2023, crime review officer Joe Smith with the Avon and Somerset police was asked to take a look at the case. Smith was formerly a police officer. Her role as a crime review officer is classified as a civilian job. Avon and Somerset's major and statutory review team has been looking at cold cases since 2008. Smith went to the police archive to retrieve 17 boxes of paperwork and evidence from the Louisa Dunn case. She told the Guardian, when I saw that it was dated 1967, I knew we were only going to solve this through forensics. So I went to the archive to look at the exhibits boxes. I opened the first one and put the lid back on again immediately. Most of our cold cases are in forensically sealed backs with barcodes and case reference numbers, these weren't. They just had brown cardboard luggage labels saying what they were. It meant that they'd never been subject to modern forensic examinations. Well, how strange would that have been to see that though? Well, strange, but also maybe promising because they haven't been tested. So you might think, Oh, okay. We could get a hit. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, they're sitting in what is essentially probably like what your mom used to send your lunch with you in back in elementary school, a brown paper bag or something like that. Oh, brown bagged it. So you got to wonder, right? If there's something in here, are we going to be able to use it? Did it hold up? How was it collected? All that stuff. Smith and her colleagues spent the rest of the day bagging items for testing. Hey folks, if you want a different type of bank, a smarter bank, one that's built for you, you got to check out Chime. They offer things that most banks don't offer. There's no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees, no monthly fees, period. They also have products like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime. And you can also get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. They also have the Chime card. That's a new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day. There's no annual fees, no interest, and no strings attached. Man, I really could have benefited from Chime when I was younger. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash TCAT. That is chime.com slash TCAT. Nothing happened for the next eight months. Smith said, I was excited, but it wasn't met with a huge amount of enthusiasm. Let's just say there was some skepticism as to the value of submitting something so old to forensics. It wasn't seen as a priority. And I get that, right? You're talking about something that at that point is, you know, 50 years old. Right. Plus there are obviously cases happening daily, weekly, yearly. Many of them would take priority over this. Yeah. There's just urgency. It's just not going to be there. In the spring of 2024, authorities sent a blue skirt. Louisa was wearing at the time of the murder. and sample of her hairs to a forensic scientist for testing. They found semen on the skirt and a full DNA profile was developed in late August, 2024. Wow. You think they were like high-fiving each other? Yeah. I think they were very excited for the lack of a better word about this finding. But I also go back to the perpetrator, right? We talked about it. You asked the question, a question that the perpetrator would probably ask themselves over the years. What did I leave behind? We already know she was raped. We said that. Now in 1967, there wasn't a lot you could do with semen, but once DNA came online and then obviously through the years as it advanced, well, there was a lot you could do with it. Of course. Yeah. So if I'm the perpetrator and I'm sitting at home, I'm worried. I think, yeah, you'd have to be. The DNA was put through a database and a match was identified. 92 year old Ryland Headley, a widower from Ipswich. In addition to the DNA match, Headley's criminal record made him a strong suspect. He was arrested for raping two elderly women in Ipswich in 1977. The victims were 79 and 84 years old. You know, all rapists are terrible people, but. Yeah, I don't think there's any good ones. No. As far as I know. No. But what I don't like about this guy is that he's targeting elderly women because they're vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly why. Yeah. You know, could somebody have, I don't know if this is the right term, but you know, a fetish for older women, I guess so. But I think by and large people target elderly women in these types of cases for the exact reason you just said, right. They're, they're vulnerable. They're less likely to be able to put up a, a massive fight. Right. But you talk about DNA and then you talk about kind of the, his, this is a person who attacked women in their late seventies, eighties. And we said it right in 1967, Louisa was 75 years old. So she kind of fits into that pattern. So for the authorities, they have to feel really good about what they have here. Yeah. I mean, the DNA match alone, right? Has them feeling really good. Headley was convicted and jailed for life. But at an appeal hearing, doctors told the court that the rapes occurred due to sexual frustration from Headley's marriage to what they described as his ambitious and demanding wife. So the sentence was reduced and Headley spent only two years in jail. All right. Please make that make sense to me. You go from convicted and jailed for life to two years. Why? Because he was sexually frustrated. All right. How many of us aren't? I mean, how does that, how does it, how does it make it okay? Right. How does that, how does that mitigate or make better in any way what he did or not, not excuse it, but you know what I'm saying? I just don't get that. And if, if your partner is ambitious and demanding, I mean, that's describing a lot of, uh, partners out there. Well, sure. Let's face it. Does everybody get as much sex as they would like? I would say if people were being honest, the answer for many would be no. But in no way does that excuse or form the basis of it being less wrong to rape these elderly women. You don't get a lesser sentence because according to your doctor, you're sexually frustrated. Well, apparently you do. The guy just did. Yes, true. You said you don't, but you should not. Yeah, that's for sure. Forensic scientists determined that the DNA from the Dunn crime scene was 1 billion times more likely to belong to Headley than anyone else. Those are pretty solid odds. They are. And, you know, we see that kind of number all over the place. One in so many trillion. Now we're seeing one in so many quadrillions. I don't know. These are numbers I can't even really understand. Right. But basically what you're saying in a lot of these cases now is there aren't as many people on the entire planet as the odds are of this being anyone else. If that makes sense. Now, one in a billion, obviously there are more than a billion people and were and have been for some time. but it's still a very, very strong piece of evidence. Yeah. I would say you'd have to feel really good about the fact that you got your killer with that DNA. Because there's three times less people in the United States. Yeah. And that's not even factoring in how many males. So yeah, it just doesn't, it doesn't seem likely right. That it's anybody else but him. Now, Headley's DNA had been in the system since 2012 when he was arrested, but not charged over an unrelated matter. After identifying Headley, investigators knew they needed to work quickly because of his advanced age. I said it right. The guy was 92 years old. Yeah, that's up there. Yeah. I mean, the average age of a male is, I don't know what it is, but it's probably not 92. I'm assuming it's less than that. 78, I think. Quite a bit less than that. Before they could make an arrest, they had to prove he was in Bristol at the time of the murder. In the 11 weeks between the DNA match and the arrest, the review team read all 1,300 statements and police records to see if Headley was part of the original inquiry. He wasn't. Former Detective Sergeant Barry Fraylin spent days at the Bristol City Archives looking up electoral roll and rate payment records to prove Headley and his wife were living in Bristol in 1967. Records showed Headley was a railway worker and lived a mile and a half from Louisa's home. Oh, I'm sure they were smiling ear to ear on that one. but his name didn't come up in 1967 because he lived outside of the search area. So apparently the search area was not all that big. If he only lived a mile and a half away, maybe they were looking at things within a mile. Yeah, maybe after the murder, Hedley left Southwest England with his family and may have spent time in London before moving to Ipswich and Suffolk. suffer. The review team also found former officer Bobby Day, who was involved in the original investigation, and Norman Taylor, the doctor called when Louisa's body was found. The vast majority of witnesses in this case, though, had passed away by 2024. And you're going to have that on a case that's over 50 years old. It gives you figure even people who were new to their jobs, who would be in their 20s. They would still be in their mid to late 70s at this point. That's true. And that's one of the problems with older cases, right? It is. Unfortunately, time takes its toll. It does. On us all. On us all, yep. That's why, you know, DNA has been such a game changer. The Suffolk police also provided the statements from the Ipswich rape victims. They described how Headley snuck into their rooms and threatened to kill them if they did not comply. I'm still upset that this guy got two years for being convicted of raping two women aged 79 and 84 after initially essentially receiving a life sentence. There wasn't a ton of details around it, but it's, it's a head scratcher. It's just really insulting. Yeah. I think for the victims and the victims families, that's a, that's a really tough one. Ryland Headley was arrested on November 19th, 2024. When he was told why he was being arrested, Headley said, I don't know what you're talking about. Very strange. Very strange. Right. The first part doesn't surprise me, right? I don know how many people who if they were confronted with this type of horrible crime right off the bat say oh yeah you got me right That I don think that the norm Most people say I don't know what you're talking about. Wasn't me. Wasn't me. Now later on, they might ultimately cave, but I don't think by and large, most of these people cave right from the get-go. The part that got me was the very strange, very strange. Sounds like just plain denial to me. Why couldn't figure out what was very strange that they were coming and asking him about it. They were accusing him of it. They were arresting him. After the arrest for fingerprint experts concluded the palm print found at the crime scene matched Headley's palm print, further proof that he was inside Louisa's home on the night of the murder. According to The Guardian, Headley's neighbors in Ipswich didn't know about his past and considered him a friendly guy who doted on his family and even recently adopted a kitten. You know, when you hear about somebody like this and how they used to be, and maybe they're not like that Now, but do you think how you feel about them now changes like quickly? Or is it something that takes over time as you think about it more and more? Like he did what to who? I think for probably neighbors, that change happens very quickly because you know, you, you don't really know these people. Yeah. You might think you do, but nobody really knows their neighbors all that well. not like a family member would, right? You're not in the house all the time. You're not seeing fights and you're not seeing them at their worst. Most of the time you see your neighbors at their best, unless they're real a-holes. Well, that's true. Which I've had a few. Yeah, you have. But also Gibbs, he could have been a friendly guy by this point. You think about him being in his 70s, his 80s, and then in his 90s, I can't imagine that he was out doing any of this at that advanced age. But that doesn't change what he did, right, in the 60s and 70s when he was a younger man. You know, a thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last. That's where Quince shines. Premium fabrics, considered design, and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable. Even as the seasons change, my wife absolutely adores their lightweight cashmere sweaters. I'm more of a flow knit performance type of guy, but they have everything I need. Lightweight joggers, shorts, tops, but they also have coats, European Jersey linen. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores. Just quality clothing. And they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Right now, go to quince.com slash tcat for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.com slash tcatt for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash tcat. Ryan Headley's murder trial started on June 16, 2025. In opening statements, prosecutor Anna Vigors, KC, told the jury, as quoted by The Guardian, what we are talking about is the murder of an elderly and vulnerable lady in her own home. She was in no state to defend herself, whether it happened 58 years ago or 58 days ago. The murder of any person is a matter of concern to the rest of us. The fact that time has passed doesn't make the killing of any one of us less significant. And I would agree wholeheartedly. Absolutely. Perfectly said. With that statement. The jury heard how advances in DNA technology led to Headley's arrest. They also heard a description of Louisa's injuries. She was only 5'3". Oh, that's tiny. Yeah, described as a petite woman, there is no way she would have been able to defend herself against an attacker. Louisa had abrasions on her face and bruises to the back of her head and her right thigh. A pathologist concluded a hand was forcibly held over her mouth and a bruise across the back of her neck. was caused by a scarf found under her body that was violently tightened. A vaginal swab tested positive for semen. And we talked about it earlier, right? But so even though semen was found, DNA testing, as we know, did not exist in 1967. But because Louisa's skirt was preserved for decades. It was able to be tested. A forensic scientist found what was described as a large quantity of semen on the fabric. And I don't know what is meant by large. I mean, that's subjective, but well, clearly it was noticeably large. And we mentioned it, right? But the match ratio meant it was a billion times more likely to be Headley's DNA than anyone else. The jury also heard that after the murder, Headley and his family moved to Ipswich, and that in 1977, he raped two elderly women. He broke into their homes and threatened to strangle or smother them if they did not follow his orders. Prior to trial, the Crown Prosecution Service argued that Headley's two previous rape convictions formed an important part of the case, and they were allowed to present that evidence to the jury. And that's an important part, right? We talk about a lot of cases and there are times when a defendant's other acts, other convictions are not allowed to be shared with the jury. But in this case, I'm glad they did because it's kind of setting the stage, right? Well, you're showing the character of someone. You're showing that this person has a propensity for sexual assaults, violence. Of elderly women. Of elderly women. That's a good point because Louisa was an elderly woman. The accounts of the attacks were read in court. Headley threatened to strangle the 84-year-old victim. He told the 79-year-old victim he had a gun and warned her that he would smother her with the pillow if she didn't follow his instructions. According to the Guardian, Headley admitted to both rapes and asked for a further 10 offenses of burglaries of homes, where his prints were found between 1973 to 1978 to be taken into consideration. So you think on the 10 other robberies, does he say that to like set the stage? Like, Hey, I didn't rip anybody during those. Yeah. I don't know what is meant by he wants those to be taken into consideration, but I do think you're probably on the right track, but here's the thing, right? All but one witness had died by the time of his trial, meaning the prosecution's case relied primarily on written accounts from the 1960s and 70s. Under current legislation, witness statements must be verified by a statement of truth signed by the witness because the witnesses weren't available to give evidence in court. Their statements had to be treated as hearsay. So lesser value. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of times hearsay is not allowed here in the U.S. The prosecution read statements from Louisa's neighbors who heard screams and moans on the night of her death. However, they didn't think the noises were coming from Louisa's home and they went back to sleep. Which is kind of bothersome, right? You wake up, you hear these types of noises and you're like, eh, not next door. I'm just going to go ahead and go back to bed. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we talk about it quite a bit. I mean, this is, uh, you know, much different than the case in New York, right? The famous case that we did where a bunch of people weren't witnessed somebody being attacked and they didn't do anything. Yeah. This happens. I think more often where someone, or in this case, a couple here's something in the middle of the night, but they're not sure what it is. Okay. Are you going to get up? Are you going to investigate it? Are you going to call the police? I think a lot of times people don't because they don't want to be wrong and they don't want to be seen as the person who kind of cries wolf, right? Calls the police when nothing is really wrong. Well, that is a good point. Now, in hindsight, it's pretty easy. I'm sure they would have said, Hey, I wish we would have called or we would have done something. Alice Clark described Louisa as her best friend. In her statement, she last saw Louisa on June 27th when Louisa visited her around 7.30 PM. She was in good spirits. Louisa's neighbor, Violent Fortune, went to bed at 11.45 PM. She told the police, I was awakened suddenly by what sounded like a scream. It wasn't a long piercing scream, but a crying out. It sounded muffled, and I thought it came from the street outside. Violet did look outside, but she didn't see anyone, and so she went back to bed. Her statement continued, I had been in bed for about two minutes. When again I heard someone cry out, I could distinguish it was the voice of a woman. The cry lasted for two or three seconds, and I was aware at the same time of another voice. I cannot say if that one was a man or woman, but she didn't think either that the noise came from Louisa's home. Neighbor Harold Hodson said, I hear a loud scream. It was a frightening scream. It was an adult woman. It sounded as if someone was being attacked. After the scream, there was a sound of moans Or as if the sound was being muffled. He thought it was a man he knew beating his wife. The noise stopped and he went back to sleep. Oh, it's just Fred or Edgar just beating his wife. I'll go back to bed now. That's so strange. It is right now. Maybe, you know, this was during a time when people didn't intervene or pry into other people's business. I don't know. I know today, if you thought someone was beating their wife, I would hope that person would call the police. I would hope so too. Neighbors were worried the next morning when they didn't see Louisa and saw that a window was open. And this was when neighbor Violent Allen climbed in and found Louisa's body in the front room. She told the police that Louisa was cold as eyes. In closing statements, Headley's lawyer, Jeremy Benson, told the jury, any loss of life is tragic. It would be perfectly natural and understandable for you to feel that after 58 years, someone should be found responsible for the death of Louisa Dunn. But that would be revenge and not justice. Your task is to consider the evidence dispassionately. You must put aside any sympathy or prejudice and only convict Rylan Headley. If on the evidence, the prosecution has presented has made you sure of his guilt. Dispassionately. Yeah. I mean, I think that's kind of a big part of it. Now, is it possible for everyone that I don't know? He also noted that Headley had no recollection of visiting Louisa's home or having intercourse with her and did not rape or kill her. Well, I mean, he is 92. So maybe he just doesn't have the memory that he used to. That could be one thing. Or he's just lying. Well, how many people admit to remembering that they committed a heinous sexual assault and murder? But to your point, he could have some memory issues as well. On June 30th, 2025, Rylan Headley was convicted of rape and murder. The murder verdict was a majority 10 to two. The rape verdict was unanimous. The DNA kind of sealed that deal. Yeah. Now that is interesting to me because logically you would think if he was the person who raped her, he was the person who killed her as well. But I guess if you don't feel confident that no one came in after he raped her and killed her. Yeah. I see what you're saying, but what are the odds of that? Oh, it's like so minimal, but now maybe there was an argument that there was more than one person there. He raped her. Another person killed her. Yeah. I didn't see that in the research, the research, but that, that could be a possibility or at the very least something that the defense offered up. But the following day he was sent to life in prison with a minimum of 20 years. Now, not sure it matters what you really make the minimum. The guy's 92 years old. Gibbs, right? He's not living to be 112. I don't think at that point, you're thinking he's going to die in prison. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. Now, if it was like his other conviction and they turned around and gave him two years, he might make it two years and get out. I also wonder what it's like to be 92 years old heading to prison. What kind of attitude do you go in there with? You're like, can't really act like a tough. I was going to say, what attitude can you have? You can't back anything up at 92 years old. I mean, probably have a bad hip, knee, shoulder, everything. I have that at 52. Yeah. So I can only imagine what it would be like at 92 The other thing that is I don know if ironic is the right word but he preyed on elderly women Pretty hard not to think that there might be some guys in prison who might want to prey on him being elderly. Probably. If they're, if they get a chance, if he's not segregated or, or something like that. An easy target. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much he could fight back. During the hearing, the defense noted that Headley was going to turn 93 in September and asked the judge to take into account his behavior since he was released from prison in 1980. And I'll be honest with you, I have a real problem with that. first of all, this is a guy who got to live the majority of his life, a free man. Sure. He did. Now he spent a couple of years in prison, but that was for something completely different. If he had been caught in 1967, he would have spent, you know, however long in prison, but he didn't. So if I'm the judge, I would have a hard time really taking that into account. I get it. You're about ready to turn 93, but you should have been in prison for many, many years already. So I don't really feel that bad. I wouldn't. And your behavior over the last 40 some years to me doesn't really have a bearing on it either. You, you, you committed a heinous crime. You deserve to spend your last days in prison. you actually deserve to spend a lot longer than, than he will. The judge said during sentencing that Headley showed a complete disregard for human life and dignity. Louisa was a vulnerable elderly woman who lived alone. Although he was sentenced to a minimum 20 year term, the judge told Headley that given his age, you will never be released. you will die in prison. And I think if you're making bets, that's a, it's kind of a no brainer. Yeah. It's pretty solid. The judge also noted that the rape and murder had an intergenerational impact, which was a powerful aggravating factor. And we mentioned it, right? But this was one of the oldest cold cases to ever be solved in the UK. And Headley is believed to be the oldest person in the UK convicted of murder. I don't know how many people get convicted of murder at 92. I would think it'd be pretty slim. Yeah. Louisa's granddaughter, Mary Dainton, released a statement after the conviction, which was published by the Avon and Somerset police. It read the death of my grandmother Louisa Dunn has had a far reaching impact throughout my family. I was just 20 years old when my grandmother died, and now I'm almost the same age as she was when she was killed. I only have one memory of meeting my grandmother due to family circumstances. I was 14 at the time and visited her in the hospital. My mother told me that Louisa's house in Britannia Road was a place of social and political activity. my grandfather Edwin Parker was a member of the early labor party and he loved my grandmother dearly. Sadly, he died in 1945 and the social and political elements of my grandmother's life went with him. Louisa's brutal death had a big impact on my mother and her wider family. I don't think my mother ever recovered from it. The anxiety clouded the rest of her life. When people found out about the murder, including friends, they withdrew. There's a stigma attached to rape and murder in my experience, so I have rarely talked to anyone about this until now. Since Ryland Headley was charged, I've struggled emotionally in many ways. I did not anticipate, and it falls to me to speak for people who are no longer here. It saddens me deeply that all the people who knew and loved Louisa are not here to see that justice is being done. And that's a, it's an emotional statement, but it's also so very true. She talks about how many different people were affected by what happened to her grandmother, not just her, not just her mom, but, you know, people in the family, people who knew Louisa. And they had to carry this for 50 plus years. Yeah. Mary Dainton also spoke to the Guardian after the trial. In 1967, she was a 20-year-old art student, but she didn't know Louisa well, right? we mentioned it early on. There was a family rift. She met her grandmother just once. She told the guardian, I remember my grandmother being very keen to be friendly with me, and she held my hand very, very tightly. Mary learned about her grandmother's death from an obituary. In the Bristol Evening Post, her mother didn't want to talk about the crime. According to Mary, she told me basically, dad and I will handle this. You go away, live your life. Mary talked about how her mother was affected saying my mother had a breakdown. I think she suffered from depression later. She found it very hard to make friends. We weren't a very close family in the first place, but what there was in the family fell to pieces. And I think that's a, you know, a scenario that can occur in a lot of families where a family member is murdered, it changes the family dynamics. You know, we've seen it, Gibbs, with parents of a murdered child. They ultimately divorce. It's too painful, right, to live with each other, to look at someone who resembles your child. we've heard that and in some cases there's resentment yeah you should have done this or you should have done that if we would have only done this mary eventually accepted that the murder would never be solved she recalled the moment police told her they found the suspect she said i said something to the effect of my goodness how old is he they said 92 i asked the police was he married? Did he have children? All they could say was he's had a life. So I presume that meant he was and he did have children. All I could think was his poor family too. I don't think anybody could do that unless they had a very distorted view of what is right and what is wrong. That's a good point. What about his family members? They got to say, what the hell, dad, grandpa, everything they thought they knew about this guy in some respects is kind of a lie, right? Now he might've been a good guy later on in his life. Doesn't change the fact that he was a rapist and murderer. Kind of cancels that out. And how would you feel if you found out that your dad, your grandpa, your great grandpa was a rapist and murderer? I would think it would change how you felt about it, about him. And maybe everything you thought you knew. Yeah. Your whole world maybe would be turned upside down. Although the murder of Louisa Dunn is now solved. Many suspect that Ryland Headley committed other crimes that have not yet been linked to him. Women's groups in the UK have called for the investigation into Headley to continue. The group Women Against Rape issued a statement that said in part, We're glad the appalling crimes against Louisa Dunn are finally recognized. But how many other women has this man raped and murdered? Solving cold cases doesn't atone for continuing refusal by authorities to treat violence against women and girls as a serious crime. Well, it is a serious crime. Well, and I can't help but go back to, you know, what he was accused of and, and ultimately convicted for in the 1970s. And what was his ultimate punishment? Two years. Yeah. It's so sad. For raping two women. I mean, number one, what are you saying to him? If you get out and do it again, maybe your punishment won't be that bad. It wasn't this time, but also what are you saying to women? We don't value you. We don't value your, your rights, your safety. It's just a, it's a bad thing all the way around how, how women have been treated in a lot of aspects, but I'm talking specifically about this one, right? Right. crimes of sexual assault and that nature and the punishment that people ultimately received. I mean, it's almost laughable to think, why would women even come forward? It's hard enough to confront your victim of something like that, but to know that if you do, if they use one of these excuses, they'll probably get out in a year or two. And then you're going to have to deal with that. The fact that this person's out, the fear, yeah, all of that retaliation. In July, 2025, the Guardian reported that the national crime agency was working with the Avon and Somerset police to identify whether Headley committed other offenses. A spokesman said at the time, the joint Norfolk and Suffolk major investigation team, or MIT, will carry out extensive inquiries into Ryland Headley's activities since he moved to Ipswich in the early 1970s. He will not be a consideration in several unsolved case reviews across Suffolk. And as of January, 2026, Rylan Headley has not been linked to any additional crimes. Now, does that mean he didn't commit any? No, obviously it doesn't. If he was committing crimes in the sixties and seventies, which he, we know he was, but I meant more crimes, you know, did they collect something that could be used now? Mainly DNA. Well, there's no guarantee they did because let's face it. They didn't know what DNA was in the sixties and seventies. Very true. And if they were collecting things and putting them in paper bags and how did they store them? Maybe things were lost. That happens quite a bit in cases we talked about, or even if they did collect something, there's no guarantee that a viable sample could be derived. so many years later. But the one thing I will say is it's hard for me to believe this guy didn't commit additional crimes. Very tough to think he sexually assaulted and murdered Louisa. And then we know he raped two other elderly women in the seventies. You're telling me all those other years he did nothing. That's tough. It's tough to believe. Well, at least her family gets some answers. Yeah. Those that are left, right? I mean, a lot of them have died, but yeah, her surviving family members get answers. And that's always a good thing. I think what people, I guess I'll say have trouble with is the fact that it took almost 60 years, but better late than never. You'd have to say that. Oh, absolutely. I mean, at least there's some form of closure. Yes. Now in a perfect world, you would have wanted this guy caught sooner, committed to jail time much sooner than 92 years old because he's not going to do that much time. He doesn't have long to live. And I know it's impactful to his existing family. Absolutely. But you know what? when you do something like that, it could catch up to you, should catch up to you, and you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Yeah, but you can still feel sorry for them, right? They didn't do anything wrong. Oh, I feel sorry for them. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on Louisa Dunn. We've got a voicemail, Gibbs. You want to check that out? Let's hear it. Hey, Mike and Gibby. I'd like to give you guys a call. Oh, this is David Taylor from El Paso, Texas. Hey, you know, I'm listening to August, sometime in August 2020, And you're making, you know, you're talking about the unrest in the United States and Facebook and social media and all the idiot dumbasses on social media. And here we are today, the 29th of January, 2025, and we're still in the same spot we were five years ago. I know, you know, running a Facebook page and, like you said, your group page and your personal page, you know, you catch hell just because of the name. And, you know, that probably was, you know, the furthest thing from your mind when you started. So I'm sorry you had to put up with that BS. But anyhow, keep it up and keep your head on a swivel, you know, especially these days. But take care. Have a great night. Talk to you later. Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate the voicemail. I mean, I think when it comes to social media, right, you got to take the good with the bad. You have to. You know, we have a lot of amazing fans who interact with us on social media, different platforms, but not everybody is going to like us. And so you're going to get people who write in nasty things. That's just part of it. We have got thicker skin over the years. No, you develop thicker skin, no doubt about it. You have to, or it would drive you, you know, up the wall. Yeah. But that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Thank you.