‘Industry’ Season 4 Is Here, and It’s Bolder Than Ever. Plus, the Golden Globes and ‘Landman’ S2E9.

I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com and joining me in the studio. He just threw in the triple coverage. It's Andy Greenwald. Does ending my season. What season? I'm here for Liverpool. I'm here for the Philadelphia Phillies. I'm fine. You just turned the page. Yeah. Bob Seeger. Andy, great to see you, man. Here we are on Monday. We're going to talk about the season premiere of industry. We're going to talk about the penultimate episode of Landman. That was the penultimate episode? Yeah. Jesus Christ. And we are going to talk about the Golden Globes. You can reach us at thewatchitspotify.com. You can watch us on YouTube at theringer-tv channel or on Spotify, where I hope you're listening to us, where you enjoy our all over work. You can watch us on YouTube at theringer.tv channel or on Spotify, where you enjoy our all over work. You can watch us on Spotify too, it turns out. That's what I mean. That's what I just said. Like I said, I hope you're listening to us on Spotify. You can watch us on Spotify, where I also hope you're listening to us. I just kind of butchered that. And then you can follow us on Instagram, thewatchpot underscore. We're both maybe. I mean, I think we have a lot to say today. But we're both struggling a little bit. I have no Jerome Powell, and I will be standing by him today. You want to talk about the importance of an independent fiduciary policy for a nation? Yes. I just want to acknowledge that you're wearing Eagle's green, vaguely Eagle's green today. Oh, I'd like, can I take it off? Can I wave the white flag of my t-shirt instead? The problem is you have a Kevin Petulo t-shirt on. It is funny because I was going to come in today and be like, if there's one under qualified buffoon whose job security I would like to imperil today in all of America. And I was going to say Kevin Petulo, but then I realized in the scheme of things, maybe there are other people who should lose their jobs first. Sure, friend. And I should ratchet it down. But I do want to acknowledge the fact that last week I did predict the worst possible Sunday for your friend and the co-host of this podcast. But the thing about you is that you know, you see it coming, and you don't avoid it. You drive right into it. Like I told you to wash land, man. I told you that you should like mix it up a little bit. I didn't think it would be healthy for you to do nine hours of Eagles, Globes, Landman. No. And capping it with Landman. Did you do anything else after Landman? Yeah. Well, so I did, I did have a sense because I'm trying to do some self reflection. I was like the way that I feel. The idea that you're not self reflecting other time. Never. Never have. This is new. This is like a midpoint of life. I'm like, maybe I should just turn the camera inward for a second. Should I try therapy? Criticize myself. Oh, I've tried it. I just want to perfect it. Yeah. You know, I was like, I'm, I'm sensing some sort of like heart racing and like levels of stress because it could be again, could be, I don't know if anyone's ever going to foyer my text to Sheil during the game yesterday, but they might reveal this to be the case. I don't think I have a healthy relationship to sports. I think I have a deeply dysregulated relationship to sports. And those on the other end of my text know this. So I was like that plus that abomination of a television episode of Landman plus a very dull globes that we're going to get into. Sure. Did put me in a place of like, I definitely need to wind down a little bit here, you know, maybe a little, well, magnesium, a little tea, some quiet time reading. And you know that my, the greatest joy of the last few weeks has been reading this recently translated 75 year old German epic, Effingers, which is like the best book I've read in years. And I was like, at least I have this 800 page tome. I'm nearing the end. I'm not going to age 700, but again, you can predict where this is going. The book spans life in a Jewish family in Germany from the 1870s to the 1930s. Can't blame Kevin Padula for that. Well, equal levels of not seeing the field, I would say. So I was like, I will wind down by reading these chapters of this wonderful book. And like the first chapter I read was 1930. And I was like, this is going about as well as the second half. Sure. You know what I mean? Sure. History is a terrible spoiler sometimes. You know, I think we're underselling the return of one of our favorite TV shows of the last five years. So we can say that had you watched industry last. No, I saved it. I saved it. I mean, I saved myself. I watched industry before Sunday. Yes. So I was slightly thinking. And we are, we are going to be covering industry episode by episode and we have not watched ahead, which is sometimes to the annoyance of, of the creators of industry. I think they liked the whole picture to be seen. But you know, this is the way it's being released. So I think it like is a little healthier to watch it like the way that everybody else is rather than be like, well, you, you, you guys just wait till episode four. In Effinger's, the book I'm reading, that would be called being Volk, you know, like of the people. I didn't say Volk. Is that what you were trying to say? I just wanted to like relate it to my perspective, which is 1930s, Germany. What do you want to talk about the Eagles at all? Do you need to get anything off your chest? No. I feel like you have a lot today. Like I'm, I'm here to just throw bounce passes to you and then, and then screen away. No, no, I think we should have started in a more healthy place, which is acknowledging that one person in the room is an award winner today. Oh my God. How could we forget? Congratulations. Kaya McMullen, one of the producers of Good Hang with Amy Poehler, which won the inaugural best podcast award at the Golden Globes. Won it going away if the branded poly market content was anything to grow on. How much liquidity were you exposed to in that poly market? Like, had you been betting on your own success or against it? Were you hedging? What's a short? Shorting it? That's what Harper Stern would have shorted it, I guess. Yes. No, it was incredible. It was incredible. Amy getting up there. Thanks guys. Shout out Bill and the ringer and everybody and, you know, a really, really amazing achievement. So congratulations. And Stitch LHNPR. I know. Seriously. Kicking them while they're down. By the way, the turnaround on the Globes, like for the bit that Nikki Glaser did, which was funny, you know, Mark Maron is a part of it. The clip they used from Good Hang was from the Gwyneth episode, which went up like five days ago. So they were on it. I know. Current. Do you think the globe should just start giving out awards for random other stuff? Yes. Like, at this point, yes. It felt like they had a little bit more dip on the chip for the podcast awards. And the stand up comedy special award. Yeah. Like, maybe they differentiate themselves a little bit by doing like getting a little like MTV movie awards kind of vibes of like best kiss kind of thing. I'm ready to talk about this. And first of all, I thought, yeah, like the way to spice it up would have been like if the smartless guys had kissed. Yeah. Then it would have been. We can do the headline at the top. So the headlines, congratulations Kaya. Yes. The right woman and the right podcast one that was thrilling. We can't believe you're here working with us again today. We're so sorry, but I guess that's life in Hollywood. The highest to the lowest. The subhead, right? So it's like Jerome Powell being criminally investigated. Then it's like, oh no, the money, right? That's the subhead. Oh no, the money. Should I have my alert on what's going on? So the secondary headline here is we have nothing to talk about because this Golden Globes essentially mirrored the Emmys with the exception of Ray Sue Horn's victory for Best Actress Drama. This was essentially chalk. It went adolescence for best limited. Adolescence. Won a bunch of the acting awards for limited series. Stephen Graham, Aaron Docherty, Adorety, Owen Cooper, all racked up victories there. The pit won Best Drama, Best Actor. The studio. And the studio won Best Comedy and Best Actor. So all that stuff basically mirrored what happened in the Emmys several months ago. Yes. And I think that's fine. I don't really have a huge bit of arguing to, oh Gene Smart won for Best Comedy. Actress. Her date, Casey Bluise looked great. Was that her date? No, no. Casey was at that table with the HBO gang and he looked great. So yeah, congratulations to those shows. I think that this is indicative of how I believe that if you're going to do these TV awards, you should get a little bit more creative with the calendar. Yeah. So I thought that was a relatively awful slog of a broadcast. Oh, you can do the broadcast. I just meant like the takeaways. But it would have been enlivened by some variety in the awards. But I also will circle back to this is year three, I believe, of the resurrected Golden Globes and for those who haven't been paying attention at home, none of whom listened to this podcast, I imagine. But I don't know, maybe Kai has a bandwagon or like maybe Travis Kelsey's tuning in for the first time. It doesn't really know the history of the hard-to-form press association. Sure. Well, he was just opening to hear about what happens to the Avengers. I think he's, yeah. Well, I'm happy to talk about it. But I guess Travis Kelsey is like really mad that we didn't start with industry. No, he's, he's going to, there's timestamps. You can follow. Yeah. I do like this bit though. What do you think Travis thought about that take? Fuck it. Anyway, so this is year three of the rebooted Golden Globes. And prior to the rebirth, it was an absolute dumpster fire of chaos, bribery and nonsense that often produced a relatively fun broadcast product because it was... Skinny people drinking on empty stomachs. Well said. Yes. Well said. It was a silly drunken Hollywood party that no one took too seriously, that also did have a chaotic energy because the six over-served Belgian journalists who voted for it could be swayed in ways that created unexpected results at times. And I point to this constantly, but the benefit of its place in the calendar and its differentiation from the Emmys in terms of like its window of what it considered allowed for it to be at the tip of the spear as they say in terms of anointing the next big shows. Homeland winning when it had only been as best drama series when its first season was still fresh. It had been airing for like two months, I think. In 2011, I think that was as an example. Everything has gotten much more chalk and in its new version. The other reason why I think it's worth pointing out now is because when it was rebooted, there was a pretty disastrous broadcast that Joe Coy hosted. I'm not saying it was his fault. Oh yeah, that's right. Nobody pointed to that as a particularly great night. I had forgotten that, honestly. Nicky Glaser came on last year and to her credit, stabilized it as a relatively... Okay, I recognize this as an award show. She did a good job. She did a fine job again last night. She's a very decent host of these things in the end of moments. But as we also know, hosts can't make or break an award show. I am a fan of hers. Well, this broadcast though and the awards, I don't understand what its purpose is if it has now become so respectable as to basically with a few one or two exceptions, Wagner-Morah being the biggest one, they just seems to validate the polymarket preexisting thinking of what the night is going to be. And then you pair it with an absolutely amateur hour broadcast, which we can get into. It was kind of a giant shrug. I don't take any argument like adolescents in the studio were in our top five. Like those shows are amazing. The people who won deserve to have won. But if you're just going to run them back the Emmys and preview and rubber stamp the Oscars, what's the point? I agree with you. Obviously there is the money to be made that it's on CBS and it is clearly something that whatever reservations people had about its past or the fact that it is owned and operated, I believe by Todd Bolli and Penske Media, which is essentially like... It's Penske Media, yeah. So who own all the trades? The Hollywood Reporter and Variety and Deadline are all owned by the same company. And so, and now it's like basically an extension of that. I think it is still voted on a group of foreign journalists. I don't think it's necessarily foreign anymore. Oh, really? I think they've made the Golden Globes great again. They've got... Okay. They've brought the voter... They've brought the voting home. Regardless, it's not a clear... I do not have clarity on who is voting for Globes, right? Like the way you do for the Academy Awards or for the Guilds. I agree with you. I think it kind of like... If anything, it's bad for the Oscars. I would say like having a show where broadcasts on a major network where the contestants are all in attendance and for the most part with the exception of like a few people like Ricky Gervais. Show Williams and Bobby Cannavale, not nominated but not there. But shopping for a lizard. Yes, right. Have to. It just kind of like takes a little bit of the... A couple of miles per hour off the Oscars. Yeah. Especially since the Oscars are running so late, they're in March. They haven't even... The nominations haven't even come out yet. I know. We can get into if you wanted to. I mean, I think Sean and Amanda are obviously much better qualified to talk about. Yeah. Hamdip, beating sinners and whether that means it's like an Oscar race now for Best Picture and what's going on there. But with the exception of Pluribus, I thought there was a lack of creativity. Now, I think it would have been sort of... I think the pit and adolescence and the studio did... Made a very good case to win all of those awards. Absolutely. So it's not like I'm upset about it, but it just does feel like we're watching the same show over and over again at a certain point. And it just seems... Starts to seem like a bizarre humiliation ritual for the people involved in severance to be like drawn out. That's exactly right. The big fucking hospital show came out of nowhere. Yeah. Basically what you're left with is observations about that broadcast. Yeah. I have a couple of like just news and notes here. Sure. Let's do it. Let's talk a little bit about how the Globe's made a choice to cram every inch and centimeter of broadcast space, both in terms of visuals and audio. Insanity. With shit, with stuff. Yeah. So not only did we have your traditional awards set up, but then we also had play-by-play announcers, Kevin Frazier and Mark Malcom. Yes. Narrow raiding, I guess, the events of the evening so that there was no dead time in between somebody being named the winner and them getting to the stage. Now I will just say that doesn't seem like an amount of time that is fixed. Like it could take no time at all. It could take a little bit of time to get up there. Right. You know, like people need help getting up in their heels and stuff like that. Like there's all this stuff and they always seem to nail the amount. Like I was impressed with Mark Malcom being able to say, Plain Articaprio, blah, blah, blah and we'll see with and then he would end as the guy got up on stage. All due respect, but that's your clip. If you want to go viral for saying I was impressed with Mark Malcom last night, I think you are alone with that take. That is the extent of my being impressed. I do not know anything about him or Kevin Frazier for that matter. You don't watch a lot of like, recovery stuff. This is something that we do not need as a society. We do not need play-by-play for the five seconds it takes Racy Horne to get up on stage. It was hideous television. True. They talked more than any winner. Yeah, any winner. When they weren't talking, the same person who controls the oxcord at a senior center jazz or size class in fucking North Hollywood was rocking the room. Yes. Stell and Skarsgard wins and maybe they have announcers and they have an overcompensating DJ because the Beverly Hildins are relatively small dense room and people have to navigate because only the superstars are in the front. That was a long journey for an older man who suffered. He's talked to, he's had a stroke three years ago. It took him a minute and he was in no hurry. He was being greeted. He's being celebrated. I do think, I do wonder if there was a little bit of like little and little and or energy fueling that win just because people. What do you mean? Just that like people vote for Stell and Skarsgard because he's one of the great actors of his generation. Do you think that sentimental value was like an and or appreciation vote? No, I'm just saying I wonder if that moved the needle at all. I absolutely don't think so. You don't think so? You don't think people are like, I have been reminded or they would have nominated. No, but I'm saying first of all, we don't know who's voting on these awards. I don't know. You're exactly right, man. That's true. We can't say clip when Chris says you're exactly right, man. I'm trying to control this thing from the outside the booth. Like Kevin Petullo on the sideline. You know what I'm saying? I'm going empty when I shouldn't be long walk. Little John's. Yeah is playing. Yeah. Like on repeat, it takes a long from to get up there. What about when when Jesse Buckley won? That was a lovely moment for a movie. I promise you I will never see him. It. No, thanks. I'm good. I'm fine. Just because of the content like watch. Because you know, before has has the edit has there been a cinematic exploration of grief over child death like this? I'm like, I'll take it for. Congrats. I ain't reading all that. You know what I mean? I'm not on the big picture like some of us. I'm good. They're playing. Isn't she lovely? She's walking up there. I thought that was incredible. But anyway, it was the. I have to admit when the last 45 minutes, yeah, this show was honestly so irritating that after Kai is big win, yeah, my wife and I were like, let's get beers. So we went out and I just went out for beers. Yeah. You didn't have any beers in the house. We just decided to get out of the house. I had subjected her to a long day of of me. She was like, this is the longest football game that's ever happened. It truly was. Yeah. My favorite. So so they're doing the announcements. I just want to return to this. Sorry. Everyone's favorite. Yeah. And Timothy Chalamet wins for my favorite movie of the three movies I saw last year, Marty Supreme. You saw one battle centers and Marty Supreme. They didn't see centers. Oh, you saw one battle. The Golden Globe voters didn't see centers, but proud of its box office achievement. I will see it. No, I saw. You know, I don't write yourself checks. You can't catch. I think that I can make it to seeing centers on my television at some point in the next four or five weeks. I saw K-pop Demon Hunters. You want to hear your comments? I haven't seen it yet. They were like, this is a direct quote. Well, Timothy thanked his girlfriend at the Critics Choice Awards. Will he thank her again? Yeah, I saw it when he said that. I was just like, Mark, stay in your lane, brother. Like, don't don't worry about who he's who he's thinking. What about when adolescents like one swept like one for series? I don't remember. It was that final award. And the comment was, wow, adolescents has swept these awards. Do we really have to wait two to three years for another one? There is another one. They're making another one. Yeah. That was like news to me. But then apparently he has said, like, yeah, we'll we'll we'll return to adolescence in a little while. Is it going to be someone else's adolescence? No, I think it'll probably be following up with where I think they should just do someone else's adolescence, someone with like a chill adolescence. Oh, somebody who's just like hanging out. Yeah, so he gets really into the X-Men at 12 and it's just like, oh, it's interesting. It's a metaphor. So you have a very specific idea about who's adolescents. I don't think it should be fucking Hamnett's adolescence. It should be one of you drinking a Diet Coke. Like, what is it? First of all, I should drink Diet Coke when I was a kid. It was the straight stuff. That's why I am the way I am. I'm saying it won't be Hamnett's adolescence. You know what I mean? Yeah. From what I gather. Um, yeah, that was awful. Um, what did you did you enjoy as? As the podcast resident, he had rivalry fan. Did you enjoy the moment to celebrate the UFC before they entered? That was CBS. What do you see at Paramount has purchased the rights to the broadcast rights to the UFC. So that was just them like reminding us, but putting a little bit of marmite on top of the toast. Do you think they also use the UFC people to make sure that not a single nominee said anything remotely political all night? It's a really good point. That was notable. Gene smart was the closest who got, I mean, if Hannah, I'm blind, Erd one, she would have just lit everything. She would have let him know. She would have brought the contra fire like a flamethrower with her. She also had to watch the Eagles game too. That's true. So she was already in a foul temper. Yeah. Uh, I did note with interest that there was a real lack of sloganeering, a real lack of any kind of political rhetoric whatsoever. I thought that our Scott Gamble only one for the pit made a very nice comment about how working on artistic projects brings people together, which is much like making a podcast, you know, much like the X men. It's all basically one good time. A bunch of guys hanging out having a good time. I thought that the Heter Ravelry guys were quite good. They, uh, I wonder whether or not that's a phenomenon that has permeated, say, the one battle after another table, you know, like who, who among the celebs were aware of that, of that's the rocking, you know, super stardom that's happening to those guys. I think people, um, I, one other note I had just here is like, I guess, like this hacks bear thing is over. Uh, now the bear still has more Emmys than hacks, but it does feel like it's been like two or three years nonstop of like hacks dubs. Listen, this is my least, I'm, this is the thing I am least interested in the world, but I did note when it was like, oh yeah, I forgot, like the bear is nominated, like Jeremy Allen, white's nominated, all this stuff is nominated, like we should do a bit that's just like admittedly concerned trolling, because I don't think either you or I care about this. And yet Jeremy Allen, white, are we sure? Oh, I, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure because he's a wonderful actor and people love him, but I'm just saying he's had to like now sort of show up, get glammed up to lose for the bear multiple times and now to lose for the spring steam movie, a movie which he poured his heart and soul into that was not greeted with hungry hearts. Let's say. Sure. I think that, uh, and now he's going to be a hut. In year number one, 2026, right? Like he didn't have to get into any mocap to worm suit. You don't think he did? Is this in Grogu? It's Mandalorian and Grogu. M and G. Yeah. We can talk about that if you want to. I don't want to at all. We're going to have to at some point. Yeah, that was really, I thought Wando Sykes was really funny. Um, I got two other notes. Yeah. I thought I was awesome Roseburn one for a kind of movie I haven't seen, but I'd like to try. You're going to try and we're going to watch if I had legs, I kick you, I kick you, but you're not going to watch. Watch and before. Well, you, which one do you, have you seen either of these mouse? Okay. So this is again, this is how you stay winning. Somehow the terms of debate have been set by Mr. Cool over here. Wow. You're really going to choose that movie I haven't seen over the other movie. I just, I haven't seen, I haven't gotten to it yet. Yeah. You've been going to parties. What are you watching? Fucking prestige television. Well, that makes two of us. Anyway, I just, I like Roseburn a lot as actor. I thought that was awesome. I thought it was very sweet because she was so surprised. It was a great moment on stage for, as she said, a small movie winning these things is more meaningful. Similarly, like Wagner Mora, who's a really good actor, winning for a movie that I also is on my list would love to see secret agent. I also really appreciated that Roseburn thanked her date, her brother George Byrne, who's a great photographer. I have one of his prints. Geez. Very talented photographer. Wow. You contain multitudes. I'd like to keep a couple of things held back. Three things. Your secret little like I'm an art guy. Thing is like, is interesting to me because you're not just like I go to museums, but you're like, I like to dabble in collecting. Yeah. When I had an overall deal at Universal, I was dabble. I bought one picture. But sometimes I like post. It's not like I can go forward to go to Max and Helen's stuff. And you'll be like, where did you, did you purchase that? Where'd you see that? I never asked if you've purchased that. Yeah. I asked like, if you went to see Helen Frank and Thaler and MoMA, I didn't say, did you purchase one of the five art works hanging in the gallery? Did you? No. Okay. No. Also, I let any drone pal to stay. I led a stacked podcast with a small Teehee admission that I've been enjoying an 800 page German novel from 1951. No one's like, Oh, does he like art? Find a new slant. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, as someone who has also recently been asked to investigate the purchase or adoption of a bearded dragon for the household. Yeah. What's up? Is that a new thing? Is that like a wire kids getting into that classrooms? They are, they are hardy pets for classrooms. So like, you know, we used to, when we were kids, we had like gerbils or like guinea pigs. Now, at least in my, you know, however many years I've been a parent, now I should know that number, 12 and a half. It's lizards, exclusively lizards. Okay. And bearded dragons seem like fine lizards. They sit there. Hardy, like they can be pet a lot or like, they don't have to give the death talk too often. Oh, yeah. I mean, so. They should see Hamnet. That's what I'm saying. Separate. Yeah. Hamnet, but about Hamnets pet bearded dragon. We don't know for sure. We don't even know if Shakespeare actually wrote Hamlet. You know what I mean? There's some debate about that. Right. So who's to say that his kid didn't have a bearded dragon? That's lost to the mysteries of time. Too bad there's not an effingers like history of the life of the Shakespeare family. I thought that was very sweet. The Roseburn thing. And yeah, like the Bagnar Mora winning best actor and secret agent winning foreign film. Like. Awesome movie by the way. That's kind of, did you did see it? I did see Secret Agent. Yes. That is kind of what the Golden Globes used to do, both because of the international perspective or whatever it may have been and the kind of slight element of surprise. And I think that's ultimately good. Yeah. So I think going into the Oscar nominations, like, oh, is Roseburn a player now? Is Bagnar Mora a player now? Is it does Hamnet have the inside track over sinners in the what is going to be one battle conversation? Sure. That's interesting to me. And one battle is awesome. That was really cool when Tiana Taylor won and PTA giving very nice speeches. Speaking of that, speaking of that speech, the PTA speech. How do you say the last name of the man who wrote Gravity's Rainbow? I was going to ask you this because I feel like I just like Paul Thomas Anderson would know unless we've been saying his name wrong and as Paul Thomas Anderson, because he said Thomas pinch on Thomas Pinschan for my whole life. Yeah, like Thomas Pinschan. Pinschan. Yeah. But he said Pinschan. He did. And I don't know whether that's like a valley thing or that was like, I'm just I'm just letting it loose. Like I like I have what is it called malopropisms or whatever. Like sometimes I like mis-say something or whatever. Like, but I feel like he would know and that's a name that he is like he might even have Thomas Pinschan's. He might be communicated with him at some point. Yeah. Also, this is I just want to point out the man of the people thing. You're wearing a Liverpool sweatshirt, a Phillies hat. Yeah. And you are this is the most heated you've gotten so far in our podcast over the pronunciation of cult novelist Thomas Pinschan's name. I just wouldn't want to be the art guy. I wouldn't want to be mispronouncing the great man's name for this long. In fact, I was dapping myself up for reading Vine Land last year. You mean Vine Land. And maybe it is. Maybe it is. We don't know. And frankly, we have no way of ever finding out. That was interesting. There are people who were much more like it's Grant Land. Or not Grantland. Grantland. That's how I say it. But maybe that's like a Philly thing. You know, maybe it's like a casual kind of kind of swallow the end of the word thing. Hmm. You think that like Californians are more confident. Pinschan. Yeah, Thomas Pinschan. What voice is that? That's like surfer, dude. Oh, like nasally kind of California Valley hanging out reading Thomas Pinschan. Do you think a lot of surfers like Mason and Dixon? What is the Venn diagram of this particular character that you're creating for us? You wrote a lot about Southern California. I know, but I just feel like you are micro targeting right now. I'm not mad at it. That's what I usually do. That's all I got for the globe. So, uh, Taya, was there were there were there after parties for the podcast nominees? Anything? Um, I had my own personal after party at a sushi restaurant. Nice. You had quite a weekend or quite a like an extended weekend, right? I mean, I worked a lot. No, I wasn't saying you didn't provide value to the company. To the shareholder. I just meant it was like a fun weekend. It was like, you know, there was the Globes party. Yeah, Chris and I partied it up at the Globes party. This is a sport fight. That was the party that Chris cleared the lane. He made sure that I wasn't there dragging you guys down, which I respect. Tim Simon's like, are you here? I was like, talk to your friend, Chris. I would have been. Must be nice. I you didn't make the the the photo carousel, though, of like starry night at the Hollywood Reporter Spotify party. It was the front page over the weekend. I did get I got my picture taken with Tim at that party and he was trying to give me tips about it. Yeah. But I think I just looked like a balding accountant at that party. So I'm not surprised I didn't make the old reporter carousel. Sorry to go against the grain here. But the reporter ran a series of photos from the night. It was the headline over the weekend. They're very proud of their party. And it was like John Legend at the at the at the party. And then it was like Chaka Khan at the party. And maybe there was one of the heated rivalry people. The guy the guy who plays Scott. OK. And the kid from Sinners was there. So there's pictures of these people. Yeah. And then then there's a picture of Tim. He looked great. Yeah. He's the king of the red carpet these days. Looks looks amazing. Proud of him. And then then it was like the circulation director for Hollywood Reporter and Penske Media on the couch. And I told him he was correctly placed in the carousel. But if the circulation manager got on the couch, which is same. Was Bill and did Bill make a carousel? No. But I thought I thought Bill was just doing a drive by. He stayed a little longer than I think he thought he was going to. But that's just because, you know, his homies were there. That's nice. His homies Miles Caden and Chaka. Chaka Khan. Let's do industry. Do you want to let's talk a little bit of big picture here. Let's do it. Among my favorite shows of the decade. Absolutely. One of I think like the shows we've been most if we could be proud of a show. I think we're proud of industry. Right. Yeah. Like this is something that we jumped on early on. Like from the earliest days of its release, I was very curious about it. And to see it not only find a bigger audience, but also to watch this like the swagger it has now is like really something pretty awesome. Like it is. And the response. I have nothing to do with it. Rave reviews. Rave reviews. Universal not just a claim, but universal coverage. Yes. Which is not the case for season one. And we were joking about that. And I would say that for as much as we've spent a lot of time talking over the last few weeks and months about how the pit, which also returned over the weekend over the last few days, represents something that we love about television. And we have always loved about television in terms of just like the reliable clockwork. Here's a setting. Here's people you don't know yet, but you will fall in love with and you can sort of set your watch to it, but you give yourself over to it. That aspect of TV that we grew up with. The other part of TV that keeps me fascinated, keeps me affectionate, keeps me passionate, keeps me wanting to work in and around it is the way that TV can grow and evolve over time and especially combined with opportunity, with good fortune, with good casting, with good taste and with a certain level. And in the case of Mickey Down and Conrad Kay, as we're about to talk about it, quite a bit of fearlessness. These things can evolve beyond anything we or maybe even the creators could imagine. And seeing that development over seasons is both exciting and rare in a time when fear still does kind of dominate in the executive suite, where opportunities are fewer and where a lot of these streaming services either pull the plug early on stuff or cap things. Yes. Two seasons, three seasons, stay in your lane, that kind of conversation with a network. So that also feeds us. Yeah. And I think also there's a boldness to the, honestly, like the, for lack of a better term, the geography of the show, because a lot of TV shows, even if they go through reinventions, stay rooted in, you know, odds stays in the prison until the prison is no more and justified more or less. Yeah. Bangs around the hollers and, you know, long running shows that like are essentially like maybe have good seasons, bad seasons, up seasons, down seasons, or are relentlessly creative, still kind of keep to a baseline of experiences that you can have in the show. Now, there's consistency in industry in terms of the way people talk and what they're talking about and maybe even the Nathan McKay soundtrack, although I think that they have like obviously started to invest more in needle drops as the years have gone on. But the thing that really struck me about this one, and the creators have talked about it being kind of a soft reboot for the show or the idea of like, you know, basically refueling the plain midair, you know, is how I never know where the next scene is going to be. And that is still a sensation that I think is thrilling. Like now it might be it takes away a little bit of like the quote unquote reliability factor of television because you're just like, OK, now we're going to go to this place. It's like they're always in in Mad Men, they're going to go back to the office at some point. There is no office in industry anymore. Now they may start one and there may be a pure point. You know, in name and everything but name. Yeah. But I think that like Sterling Cooper, Draper Price. Yeah. The thing that excites me about the show is moments like Rishi's corporate espionage gig or political espionage gig that he's doing for Harper. And he shows up in a bar that looked a lot like the Devonshire, but I don't think was. And is sort of kind of haunting the the sort of outer edges of a wake that's happening there. And steals a guy's phone to get some political information to supply Harper so that she can short this company will get into all of that. Just even going to that bar, like most TV shows would not scout a new place, find a existing bar. I do not think they built that on a set and go shoot there with a ton of extras to give you a sense of like London as a living, breathing place where shit like this is happening on a Wednesday or a Thursday. That's so exciting. Like that's a quality that this show has that I can't think of another current show that has that right now. The Rishi scene may have been my favorite in the episode. And before we get into the specifics, I just want to follow up on what you said, which was creators have talked about it as a soft reboot. This is a hard reboot. Yeah. I was trying to think of any other shows contemporary or not that have attempted to kind of speed race, a completely new protagonist and a completely new status quo, concurrently in a season premiere. Like, for example, with Mad Men, the show would evolve and the firm changed, but the principles stayed the same. Yeah. The trappings and the circumstance changed. When we would talk about, you know, shows that really not just revolutionize transformation and evolution within serialized narratives, but shows that really set the template. The wire, for example, season two, each season in a way, but certainly more than any other. But the one thing that the wire did was it was expanding the aperture of its view of the city. So the police department was the police department, but there were different nodes connecting it now to City Hall or to the docks or to the school system, and they would fold them in until they were all existing concurrently. Like McNulty, again, his circumstances and a sobriety change, but he was still he was still a Baltimore police, as they say. Yeah. This show is not doing that. And the degree of difficulty for this premiere cannot be overstated. And I think any hesitation I have in giving it a full-throated five star review, because again, I've only seen one, is mostly because I'm dazzled at the audacity of it and trying to keep up with the changes. There is no, and I feel like this is relevant to the characters in industry, there is no safe word for this show. There really isn't a home base to return to to make the audience. And I will admit, this is a kind of a basic asset on the couch. And I think that's a good kind of take here. Oh, OK, we're in a place I've been before and I've seen it and I know what the stakes are here. They're not giving us that, which I commend, but it takes a second, especially when we are giving so much screen time to so much new, so many new players, so many so much new content and so many new levels of interaction. Can you think of anything that has attempted this or that it made you feel like, and I don't mean to put you on the spot because I thought about it all weekend. No, I mean, I think the wire season two would be the closest thing I can think of. In terms of the season starts, I can't remember in my mind whether I knew that that was coming or not. I don't remember like the wire. The infrastructure. Yeah, the journalism system is different. Yeah, it was it wasn't like they were doing tons of short form video to be like, just so you know, this is what's going to happen. You know, it was like, yeah, if I remember correctly, it started and I was like, so where's Omar? You know, like I think if you were watching this, you might be like, where's Henry Muck? Where's where's Eric? You know, like you might be looking for people that you've become close to. You might be like, where's Rob? Yeah, or you understand. And again, like we have weeks to talk about this and unpack it and see where it goes. I think one of the one of the things that made industry season three, not just the best season of the show thus far, but like, I think it was our number one, the year that our number one TV show of the year, the year that it aired was because Mickey and Conrad understood in their bones the rhythms of the show they'd created and that this had reached its end point, that there was nowhere else to go with this structure of Peer Point and everything that it entailed. So all in on that. But it is worth noting that like one of the things that Peer Point provided was a structure for the viewer to understand, oh, the characters are out doing drugs and boning each other until dawn. That will have an impact on their work day. Thus, when I see them at work, I carry that context. Understand the stakes of all their decision making. Now that Harper is still, you know, a complete chaos agent and a heliocentric ballstop, I would say, in terms of financial flow and also information flow, but she's the boss, but she's not quite the boss yet. Again, the episode had to remind us of that. OK, well, she can behave this way in this context, but Hugo Masanus still at least believes that he's pulling her strings, thus the Eric thing. I'm not saying the premiere didn't give us the context. I'm saying we're starting from scratch. It just also moved incredibly quickly and it had a lot of moments that, like, for instance, the opening sequence of the show and features Charlie Heaton, who people probably recognize, some stranger things playing a financial journalist who when the show starts. I mean, I haven't been a journalist in a while, but his behavior tracked with how I remember being a journalist. But when the show starts, he is essentially stalking Kiernan Shepka's Haley character as she goes out through like a night out, starting at a wine bar, going to a nightclub. He hooks up with her. This tracks with my experience in London, too. Every austere wine bar with a beautifully steamed piece of hake ends with an all night nightclub where they exclusively play New Order remix. That's right. I mean, a boy can dream. And then the next morning, he reveals that he is, in fact, a journalist and that he is looking into Kiernan Shepka's character's boss's behavior and her boss. He made her coffee, too. So let's not act like. Yeah, they cut away. We don't know exactly what happened. You know, he could have just been like, she woke up fully clothed. Yeah, he's like, why don't we just catch up on Landman? Let's cuddle. Yeah. And what? Their Eugles highlights are on. Who wants to? Who's? Her boss is played by Maxing Mings. Mings Hala, who is a co-leader of a company called Tender, which is currently at the start of the show, is basically like a stripe or PayPal for porn sites. And they are working for their primary client or one of their primary clients is this company, Siren, which is like an only fans-esque kind of user-generated content place. And that is ascendant. It's like it's like starting to devour the marketplace. Yeah. And concurrent with that, the British government is starting to get into online safety acts, mentions Siren by name. There's in the House of Commons where they're talking about bringing a bill or making some new laws that would restrict the sort of access people have to this or whether or not it's even legal at all to do it. So that dovetails quite nicely with Whitney, Max Mings Hala's character, who is looking to diversify what Tender does and wants it to not only be like that, he doesn't want them to just be money launderers for porn companies. He wants them to be like a 21st century financial financial institution, like a post bank bank, nimble for the world that is no longer and he's been going to show they don't want to be the PayPal of Bukake. Yes. And he's been going to Africa every couple of weeks to expand the footprint of the company. Meanwhile, Cal Penn plays a guy named Jay, I believe, right? Jonah, what's his name? The other one takes the notes. I'm just vibing. I mean, he plays Adderberry, I think is his name, his character's name, his last name. He just wants to fucking party and hook up with girls and vape in the office. And he's like, we've we've iterated enough. This is an awesome life. We're rich. Yeah, we have zip ups, quarter zips with our name on it, our company's name on it. And so there's that tension. Now, that takes up half the episode. That's very much so. Is about new characters, new companies, new ideas. You're right. His name is Jay, by the way. Great. And we're being asked to understand a lot about English government, English laws, financial institutions that we've not not familiar with, financial journalists investigating those financial institutions all the while in the in the sort of side is Harper, who is running like a new shop under Mawston asset management, the umbrella of Otto Mawston, who is the sort of like Lord from the third season, who recognizes in Harper a kindred kind of outlaw spirit. And he has set her up with her own shop underneath his kind of investment bank or whatever he's got going on. And her job is to essentially find companies to short. But what happens is she starts wanting to short companies that are run by friends of Otto. And they have a big showdown. He they sever their relationship. And by the end of the episode, Harper has talked Eric into coming back from the Hamptons. It looks like. Yeah, or we're Jersey because he's always at a Trump course. Right. He's playing. I mean, I can't believe I mean, first of all, kudos to Mickey and Conrad. They got they got they got a 45. I'm sorry, 45, 47 cameo. That's true. Huge. Can't believe the show is not moving to CBS. But he's on a golf course. Yes. Yeah. And he's not satisfied. Trump or or Eric. Both both are great men. Neither great men is really sad. Yeah, Eric doesn't like heaven. He's he's retired. He's playing golf. They go to get stakes and have sex with with young ladies. And he's just like the action is the juice. I got to get back to work. So he goes back to England. He hooks back up with Harper. They're going to start a new shop. And I think that what we're going to get based on this first episode is seeing characters see how far they can push things. Because I think to me, this episode was about ethics or the abandonment of ethics. Oh, yeah. To some extent. What do you think of it? Where do you stand on on ethics? Well, I think we're watching them erode. Go away. Yeah. I think we're watching the the slow degradation of an idea of like an internal moral compass. And it's because of the elevation of industries like finance, because they're like, look, the only thing that matters is like your margin of victory. So you could say, oh, it's always been like this. It was just dressed up like guys like Otto. But what is the moral compass of the people who are making these decisions? Who are going after stories, who are going into Africa to promote financial institutions? Like, what is what is guiding them aside from power and victory and wealth? I mean, I think fundamentally, one of the reasons why the show is so successful is because it is one of the few entertainments of our era that is willing to run right at the emptiness that is at the core of basically everything we do. Yes. And I don't just mean like that we have a job just talking about stuff twice a week because I love our job. And, you know, now that we are recognized by the Golden Globes, not us, but like the category. Sure. Like hopefully we can continue to build, you know, equity. I don't know. But like, you know, to watch to watch football in America yesterday is not just to experience massive disappointment and embarrassment and shame. It's also to see that every commercial is either for drug medication or AI. Yeah. And the entire economy is just AI being propped up. But you wonder whether any other company in the world has any money. That's what I mean. Yeah. And that the what Harper, we literally can't get a Nike ad. No. And what Harper does and what all of the, you know, we're like, oh, we don't really understand financials. That's because the product that they do is fan duel for corporations. Right. It is all betting and hedging and shorting on the potential growth of things as opposed to. And I mean, I'm not this is not me on a soapbox, but like instead of actually the company making something or doing something. Right. I mean, does it when you say something like that is like we're just like taking things that people don't. Yes. And selling it to them. A great speech about what capitalism is and what online stuff is and what the service they provide and how like, well, at least in these tough, you know, these uncertain economic times, like masturbation remains like a reliable engine of commerce and of interest. So what I like about the decoupling from the sort of at this point show the perform the performance based like old world security of a bank is that all of these people are degenerates and they're doing the same things they were doing before under increasingly changed or compromised context. So I went from thinking that Rishi had also reached a natural end point with the extremity of his final scene in season three to realizing that he is maybe the ideal avatar for this kind of storytelling in season four. I thought that scene was phenomenal because the abilities that he has in the workplace of Pure Point are in no way separate from the degeneracy of his life as a gambler. And now what is left to him as a career is a sort of bizarre amalgamation of both. Well, now he's just like a hired gun. And it's not even like that he's a hired gun to do the things that he was doing at Pure Point. Harper seems to be risky is what Harper seems to have recognized in him is his ability to be multiple people at once. Right. You know, and to live these secret lives and to keep plate spinning in the air. So it's not really his financial acumen that she's going after. It's his ability to walk into a week and pretend like he belongs there and then steal a guy's phone and then replace it and then immediately give that information to Harper. Or maybe I can't remember. I guess he didn't replace it. I think he stole it. No, he didn't. No, he brought the phone back. Oh, he did. He either I don't know if he emailed himself and deleted the send. I don't know. He Harper ended up with the party speech. Yes, it was going to be delivered in Parliament, but he put the guy's phone back in his bag. So he would find it later and he finished his gin and tonic. And then what about his day? Yeah, let's talk a little bit about. The button pushing also just to say that sometimes the hardest things that season premieres have to do and ongoing shows is to walk back decisions that made that were very dramatically evocative in the previous season finale. It would be one that you're talking about bringing Eric back. And I thought this was done well. I was going to commend that because I think the show and I think you agree with this. It really does sing when Ken Lung is back on screen and particularly when he's paired with Mahala. And I get that for marketing purposes and maybe for the long arc of the show, it's always been about Yasmin and Harper. But I think the Harper-Eric dynamic is the beating heart of the show on a practical level. The Kyle Schwarber, if you will, I wanted for pivoting to baseball. Sure. You know, he kind of makes the whole lineup work. So I liked the way he was brought back and I liked their new dynamic as potentially we see. We see each other in peers, but also I don't care. Get him back. And that is the nuts and bolts of TV that I often enjoy. I don't care that he could not have been exiled further. We need him back. Let's move on. And to the point that we were talking about earlier about the reinvention, but also the there was a safer version to do this show. I mean, this show could have just stayed at Peer Point for five seasons. And season four could have been Harper has ascended to the top of Peer Point. Eric is now below her in the, you know, like the corporate pecking order. And they have each have like emotional and real blackmail over each other in the game of thrones that's going to happen within that, that like very specific physical context of we're on the trading floor, there's a C suite, but then they go out and get drinks and then they come back. Like there was a repetition happening and now it is almost like much more run and gun. You know, I was going to call it grill of filmmaking, but they have obviously also the other major development over the course of the series is making in Conrad becoming more short filmmakers and imparting a lot of their cinematic influence onto the show. Okay. So wait, put a pin in that because I do want to talk about that. I wondered, and I don't mean this to be under the category of concern trolling, but it's just something that I'm watching is that this is a show that began again, essentially is a completely different show with completely, I'm not saying Mickey and Conrad were over matched, but they were green. And the premise of the show with the pilot promised and we love the pilot was that these are, we're entering this financial institution at the lowest rung and seeing who is hungry enough, degenerate enough, driven enough, whatever to ascend. And for as unconventional as a lot of the storytelling was in season one, you start at the bottom of the totem pole looking up. That's conventional. Sure. That's Grey's Anatomy. It's the pit. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I'm curious about the show's internal, what's the thing like when you're... Gimbal? Like the level, in terms of where we are in relation to underdogs or overdogs. Because going into this episode, and again, in a consequence free, amoral universe, which is the show is now very confidently steering through, maybe these are outdated terms. But everyone is an overdog right now on the show, maybe with the exception of Kiernan Schipka's Haley character, who's literally an assistant. Everyone else is, we're at the highest level now. Harper's walking into these rooms as an equal. I'll push back on that. I think that's fair. I think that she's still looked down upon for reasons that are cosmetic and racial and class and being an American and being an upstart as Hugo says to her, or she says to Hugo, like you hired me because of what I look like and my attitude. That's fair. And I over spoke. That was, I went too far on that. Well, I would just say that I think it's representative of the wild west feel that global finance has right now. We have these old storied institutions, no more experts, goldmines and, you know, whatever's. A lot of them got washed out in no way at any way. I mean, some of those great big banks, I don't mean great, like I love them. I just mean like the big great banks. Who you got? Who you bent guys? I was a layman guy. I kind of like Bear Stearns. Yeah. It's okay. I got to go back and watch Tupac to fail to find. But I think about how many household names did not exist five years ago now. Yes. You know, whether it's cryptocurrency stuff or whether it's AI stuff or whether it's just like banks that get involved with the financing of the purchase of like European football clubs or how much private equity is out there where you're just like, so why has Redbird owned this like now? Like what about the, like I was reading the Times today and there was a comment about how David Ellison is seeking to become the most powerful executive in Hollywood history thanks to the backing of his father, currently the fifth richest person in the world. Yes. And David Ellison was born in 1983 and started Skydance when he was 23 to make a movie called Flyboys because he was kind of into aerial tricks and was an amateur pilot. Same. And now I know, but look how your career is diverged. You're still a better hang, but. We don't know. David could be an amazing hang. We have to do the actually, like David Ellison, come on the pod, man. You want David Ellison to come on the pod. Okay, but no questions about the merger. Just, it's all just like a hang thing. Like, you know, like it's just about like, what are your, who are your guys? Chris Ryan, the next anchor of the CBS Evening News. David Ellison, we salute you. You've made some bold choices and we in America favor the bull. Would you watch CBS Evening News if I was the anchor? Yeah, because I would support you. We've established there's a, and I was talking. Don't listen to the rewatchables. Like would you watch me every night as I've reported the news? Yeah, I also watch a land man for you every week and you still have not seen a movie. I don't, I don't, don't blame you for land man. You, you, you have free will. You are on the hook for this episode. All right. This episode that most represented your own personal opinions about woke in the workplace and what's happened on college campuses. Yeah. This is just, I can tell you're chomping at the bit. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Let's go back to what you said because we're still in industry. The cinematic ambitions of the show. It was very notable in the opening particularly, which began, just to bring it all the way back, you were talking about Charlie Heaton is investigating and he's following two unknown characters circling each other, dancing in the club. And it was interesting to think about the transformation as the season was beginning. Again, what I love about the show is that evolution over time. But one of the things that the show started with and what it wasn't noisy. It was quite austere and minimalist and also the way Lena Dunham directed the pilot was a lot about the lines, the coldness of everything. Nathan McKay's score did a lot of work and it was also before they discovered what cigar radio was doing in the background as Rishi and how the noise of that became kind of the tempo of the show. But just think about it visually from something that did seem rather austere and minimalist and cold and modern has started to turn under their directorial guys into something much more lush and sensual and baroque almost. And it wasn't what's the Albert Finney eating movie? Tom Jones. Yeah, it wasn't Tom Jones' esque like the season finale was last year. It wasn't the setting for that, but it was very visually different. Even the way the camera moved or didn't move in the Charlie Heaton, Kieran Shipka, table confrontation. I was like, okay, it's just a different show when visual style changes so much. Yeah, and also, but it's obviously something that they're thinking about a lot. And I thought that they did a really great job of giving each new location and each new setting kind of a different visual language. I thought Tender had a little... They're so good at names. But it had a little bit more of on its axis kind of like... It's Canary Wharf, Doug. I know. But then when it's at night, it's so much more like the ecstasy is kicking in and it's like everything is so lush and everything is kind of like the one perfect spotlight hitting Kieran Shipka as she's standing by the DJ booth because the music is promoting like this almost like fantasy land. It's just very smart filmmaking. It's accomplished filmmaking. I think they have like a long career ahead of them once they stop doing industry, but they can obviously take industry and make it into the movie of their dreams anyway. Did you feel like it was a little too close to home when there's the dinner scene where lifelong friends who are about to have a, frankly, a rather dramatic rupture, Jay and Whitney go to dinner in London and one of them is just like sticking to water. And the other one like orders, let's say a second Murphy stout and one guy's the others like, I think you should be clearheaded tomorrow because we have a podcast. Did that remind you of anything from the fall? It does remind me of your galleon with NA. Don't know if you want to talk about it. No, but you know, I was just wondering if that struck any chords. I feel like I have that stuff pretty under control now. 100% do. That said, we do have a meeting afterwards that has just recently popped up on your calendar and I do think that you should sit down for it. Any intervention about having two and a half beers? Do you have any other thoughts on the imports, the American imports of the show? I think we can use that as a little bit of a time to talk about watching new people learn how to speak Mickey and Conrad. So this is a very sharp, very, I think probably like weighty show when it comes to the dialogue. And it's like you're kind of almost saying things that feel like they could be written, but they are the perfect things to say. I would imagine like everybody needs like a little bit of like lead time to get used to the dialogue. And I thought Max Mahalo was awesome at it. And I thought, I thought everybody was actually quite good at it. Kal Penn, I'll be curious to see where that character goes. Like if they keep him around or if that's kind of a, hey, it's that guy I know, but he was only in one episode. He was the Kyle Chandler. I didn't want to spoil. I did say which show. How Friday Night Lights Begins. Could have been Homefront. Could be Lanterns. I don't know. Yeah. And yeah, the newer characters, I was going to say the newer characters, yeah, I think the newer characters all sort of participate in some of the more you know, oh my days moments of the show where it's like, we got a dildo coming out. Kieran Shipka says some things I'm not going to repeat while on Ecstasy. Yeah. About Bubblegum. She does. And then at the end. I don't think it was about Bubblegum, but Bubblegum played in. Yeah. It was used as sort of the visual imagery. And then at the end we have the return of Kit Harrington as Henry Muck, who is crushing up pills to snort off of a harpsichord. That he's not supposed to touch. Yeah. I imagine that is just probably the way Henry Muck gets down. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, well, I can't wait for the next episode. I think the best segue into talking about Landman would be a quote from industry 401. And I think this is if you've done timestamps, this is okay. I don't think it spoils anything. But I do think that there was a one line that really presaged my interaction with this episode. I'm just getting ready. That woke shit no longer moves the needle in this new world. So, I am going to let you cook. No, no. I think you should defend yourself. I don't have to defend anything. I've always been very, very clear that I do not agree with everything that, and I don't even know, like, look, for, let me rephrase this. You always said that you frequent daily caller because you like to open yourself up to a wide range of ideas. Taylor Sheridan has a history of introducing characters to represent ideas in the culture wars that I think he is on the wrong side of probably. And that probably doing a lot of work. God. So when the character of Pagan, the talk about it, let Kaya know what she's producing when she's not winning Golden Globes. Ainsley's non-binary roommate at TCU has come down from Minnesota of all places. Great timing to be a sports medicine major at TCU. Yes. I don't know, like, we could look up if TCU has a heralded program, but yeah. I personally don't. Joel Anderson, an alumnus from TCU. That's he could weigh in. I would love to hear if Joel's got any thoughts on the horn frogs. Say more about Pagan. Pagan is already all set up in the freshman dorms and they have a ferret, and they have a lot of restrictions about what Ainsley can and can't do in terms of making noise, having animal products, cooking. Playing music. Playing music. Using pronouns. Yes. And so Ainsley then goes to. Also, Pagan uses a reusable water bottle, which is just appalling. Don't you use a reusable water bottle? Physician heal myself. Go on. So anyway, this is an opportunity for multiple characters in the show. Well, really just Angela and Ainsley to discuss people like Pagan and how they're so unhappy about themselves that they take it out on other people by making them do gymnastics to figure out their pronouns and not play music in their dorm rooms and stuff like that. I will be, I'm legitimately curious to see if Pagan is in the 10th episode. And if there is any reason for this character's introduction. And frankly, way more time spent with Pagan and Ainsley's dorm roommate. Yes. Then Tommy's firing at the end of the episode and the collapse of his relationship with Cammie. Look, the Pagan interlude is appalling. Yes. The way the episode is constructed in which everything is given the same weight and nothing matters is disqualifying. This was a new level of dog shit in the history. I don't know why you're like, I wrote this and it's my fault that you're watching this. I didn't say you wrote it. I just think they probably send you drafts and you could be like, go a little further on this. It's a little subtle. I also think that it Pagan gets all the headlines, but the things that occur around this character, such as Ainsley, who as stated is played by I believe a 39 year old woman. She's not that old, but yeah. Playing a 17 year old who is, we are told in this episode is not going to college. Is going to stay in a dorm for one week of cheerleading camp. Why Pagan is there early unclear. During cheerleading camp. I suppose to soothe whatever other camps are having. Well, no, the dorm is a safe space. So perhaps just want to just kind of like, you know, put down some roots. Roots, yeah. Make the ferret comfortable. Angela, who is meant to be an adult human, behaves the way parents behave when they take their three year old to preschool for the first time. Yeah. Complete and total emotional meltdown. I think at least Tommy is like, what are you crying about? She's yeah, because Ainsley is going to camp for two weeks or something. Yeah. Man up woman basically. The only thing that makes Angela feel better initially is for saying goodbye to her daughter for a week is calling her personal concierge at Neiman Marcus to shop it out. And then when Ainsley has a problem swooping in like the fucking angel of death. And renting out like the solo house of Fort Worth basically. For Margarita parties. Yeah. She had a great scene with my old classmate Miriam Silverman who I'd like to remember. I remind people won a Tony and the reward that this culture gives stars of the theater is the right to debate pronoun usage with Allie Larder. I thought Miriam was so lightful in that scene. She was. She was with Ainsley and Angela. She had the right sensibility for that. Yeah. I totally agree. But the other thing and this well this goes into my larger point which is despite how I've let off not necessarily even a culture war point because frankly we may have lost that one. As a man who's been reading about 1930s Germany you got to know when to fold them. Okay. It's possible. We had a good run. We did have a good run having culture. Remember the 90s. Sick. Totally agree. The absolute inconsistent idiocy of the show in which Ainsley is written purely as a bikini wearing vessel for an angry isolated wealthy 55 year old man to pour whatever opinion he has that week is just frankly gross and dumb. It's not politics. It's that Ainsley is smart enough to say oh your name is Pagan like the god bless relation. Yeah I saw it. And then we can wait. And then Pagan is like this is a ferret a widely known animal and Ainsley is like what's that? And Pagan goes like a weasel and Ainsley says well what's that? Make it make sense. When Tommy gives her advice. Stop pointing at me. I didn't write it. You're on the hook for this. No I'm not. This was my Sunday and Kevin Petulo is not walking through that door. I told you to watch this on Thursday. I knew what was going to happen on Sunday. I knew how it was going to feel. It makes for good radio. Tommy says make his not bad advice to a grown woman who is cosplaying as a child. Make good choices. Yeah. And Tim good choices is don't have a fifth margarita when you're out on the town and off campus. And Ainsley says I don't drink margaritas there's too much sugar. Yeah. We fast forward to mom coming to save the day with a pool party. And the game being played by Ainsley is margarita Marco Polo. So her abstinence policy lasted about as long as mine did in London. And it's just the inconsistency. So we talk about the impressive nature of the Taylor Sheridan industrial complex that like wow like hate him or love him. This man generates a lot of television. Thanks for saying we. Yeah. But there is the most charitable version of criticism for this show is that there's actually a reason why very very very few people attempt this and almost no one successfully pulls this off. The act of solo writing an ongoing dramatic series. If you're Mike White and you're telling one story per season one story every couple of years. Sure. Yeah. Or Brad Ingallsby with a task like these guys work alone and they do good work. The reason you don't do it for an ongoing series is because an ongoing series demands a multiplicity of points of view and perspective and maybe voices being like you might want to run that through the filter a couple more times to make it make sense or make it be funny or make it be entertaining or make it fucking have a point. Aaron Sorkin pulled off the solo practitioner act and he was had a debilitating crack addiction when he did it. Okay. I don't know what Taylor Sheridan's excuses. You need a human perspective not just to make the pagan character work as anything other than as a strong non-binary. We're not saying strong men anymore in this world. It's that for a character like Ariana who exists on the show is well played and you know is in many ways we've pointed to that relationship with Cooper is like that's kind of the heart of the show. I thought so. Yes. And maybe what the show should have been. Right. But having a second person in the room maybe even a second female person in the room pronouns TBD could say there's probably more meat on the bone of this character than she could get engaged or she could get sexually assaulted and there's nothing else for her to do. Sure. It's just lame. It's despicable and it's gross. I agree. Thank you. I agree. I won. This is like that show on the internet where like Mehdi Hasan is like surrounded by 30 MAGA people. But nobody's arguing with you. Yeah but I just both of us won. This was a disappointment. I read an interview with Jacob Laughlin in the Hollywood Reporter. He was obviously very happy to be part of the show so I don't want to misconstru what he was saying but he was talking about how this season the first season that they got all the scripts they saw where their arcs were going and they shot them in whatever order they shot them but they understood the entirety of the story and that this season they would shoot things. Sometimes they would shoot episode six and then they would shoot episode three and it feels like that. Yeah. I think he was saying like isn't it crazy that Taylor's just generating all this stuff but this feels like something that was written out of order and that there are scenes that are kind of like mildly trying to correct for certain things like earlier in this season or even just ignoring them. You know like even I honestly like the the more compelling thing is the idea of like we were talking about reinventions like yeah making Tommy poor or making Tommy into some kind of like giving him a new challenge rather than every week I just solve the biggest problem in Texas and then go home to my crazy wife. You know now it could be like an interesting like obstacle. Now I don't necessarily think you're going to be there for season three to find out but this was you know the the pagan stuff was reminiscent of things that have happened in Lioness where Dave Annabelle's character has spirited debates with his teenage daughter. It also reminded me of the Piper Paribot character from Yellowstone who is a climate change activist. Oh boy. You know I think Taylor likes to to get some characters in there and just throw some ideas around you know this season just feels like a little bit like undercooked like or that like to your point like there was a deadline there is like writing going on there is filming going on but even the performances don't feel geolocated to the point they are in the season. Why has Cami been rolling around on the ground screaming all year or getting into financial relationships with the cartel against the advice of Tommy like there is a certain like kind of recklessness to the character arcs or an aimlessness that I think you're you're also right to point out. What is this season about? What is the story of this season? I mean you want me really to answer that? Well sure. My answer to that would be actually one that I'm a little less interested in which is the mortality like mortality that the reason why they brought Sam Elliott in the reason why they have been confronted with like multiple workplace deaths and the reason why that guy's whole like like I made my 20 years I get the watch thing is like the idea that this industry just like grinds you up and spits you out. That's beautiful. The most generous read of like what's been happening. I would like to reiterate just in case you know parts are clipped or not clipped I would just like to say that this entire exercise of this television show this season has been despicable. Okay. That said what is most frustrated is wait let me finish. Okay all right. Every so often a decent no compelling idea wanders across the screen like when Fred Armisen would play former Governor David Patterson of New York. That idea that you just talked about that was in that scene where Boss gets his watch is compelling. The one good episode this season I think was the funeral episode actually had some pathos to it. Yes it was quite good. The rest of it. It was also indicative of like making all of those people be together anywhere else other than the kitchen at Tommy and Angela's house where seemingly nine people live now. Yes and the fact that the great Sam Elliott who looks great by the way it does not look near death. Sam Elliott looks better than I do with a shirt off straight up. The fact though that he's being asked to play someone who is on death's door and playing the same seated note of resignation and regret for eight straight episodes. Until Cheyenne came along. Until a unlicensed physical therapist exotic dancer swims laps in front of him and instead of just letting that scene which is entirely unnecessary to the plot of the season just play out and be what it is. But there's no such thing as unnecessary to the plot of the season because nothing matters. That's right. So maybe it is the perfect show for our time but the fact that even within a just sort of nonsense spew of what life is or isn't there has to be just a little parenthetical for Taylor sake where the 20 year old dancer says the eight year old I definitely have sex with you. If the numbers just were a little bit different and he's like cool I would have sex with you too and they look at each other like okay we get it. Yeah. We get it. Yeah. Maybe that's the world that Taylor wants for us where people are honest about their sexual prospects at all times. If we're talking about being honest I just want to say this. We have watched lots of TV over the last couple of years. There's been plenty that you would probably say is better than land man that you give up on midway through and somehow some reason you have been coming back for more to the trough every week drilling away to see if you strike. Well I am not immune to the culture that we exist. Uh huh. Okay. I'm aware of the first take-ification of sports. I'm okay dabbling a little bit now that we're you know we're video stars. Some of us more than others. So I was willing to engage in that kind of conversation but you know if there's one thing that an 800 page book about the sweep of modern German history has taught me. It's that maybe it's time to call it. We got one more. I need you for one more. We gotta find out how it ends. It's but I mean it's been renewed. I I yeah here's what I would like. I would like the you know like the the workplace drama I am most interested in right now is the executive suite at Peacock watching this season play out thinking about the next five years of their life. I mean I would here's one version of that which is this is great. He's obviously not worried about these shows. That is smart. He's shorting his own shows and he's about to make a bigger split. Oh he's saving all the good ideas. Yeah. Just so we have it on the record when you said. That would be amazing if he was like I'm detonating this. Yeah. So that like they don't even want it. So Sicario the series premieres on Peacock in 2028. Don't tell me with a good time. I know I'm saying. I also want to be clear. I just want to have this on the record since we are on camera right now. When you say that you don't expect me back for the next season of Landman. Do you already have a new co-host in mind? It's Sam Elliott. Shirtless and Cheyenne. Guys first of all you both look great. Any updates in your relationship status? Yeah. Terrific. Yeah. Terrific. Well let's see Amy Poehler do that Kaya. I mean you really brought it home. I think that your criticisms are all really valid. Oh I think your criticisms are valid too. What were they? Was it more about like roommate assignments? Like maybe just more auto care should have been put into that. Thanks to Golden Globe winning producer Kai McMullen. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks to Andy Greenwald for always shooting from the hip. You know. Can't help it. They can't tell you. They can't say that you're bought and paid for. They will. But the evidence suggests otherwise. They will. We'll be back on Thursday to talk a little bit of Pitt. Let me see actually hold on a second. Yeah. Is there anything other than the Pitt coming out? I think it might be ponies. Oh geez. Yeah. It's it's it's hijacking ponies. This week. And Wednesday night of the Seven Kingdoms. That is next week. Next week. Tell the people. Some of us already watch ponies. I'm good. I do the homework. Once. Amazing performance by you today. It's really a throwback. I got nothing left to lose. Thanks to Andy for everything he does for this show. Oh so we're keeping the part where you open your computer and say. I think it's fine. It's the end of the pod. Nobody cares. Right. This is when the real heads tune in. Do you want to actually do five minutes after dark right now about the Eagles? Uh. Or is she'll having you on the Ringerfully special? I already recorded. Did you? No. Do you want to talk about the Eagles? Do you want to talk about the Eagles? What's your take? That for as much as I love them as an institution and for as much as I have historically enjoyed cheering for this iteration of the team. Yeah. This was a miserable fucking experience for the last couple of months and I'm I'm not happy that it's over and I'm not happy that the Eagles lost to the Niners. But I'm glad I do not have to watch 19 points a game again. No. This was a joyless slog. I love the defense. I love men who are on the offense. They do. But I did not enjoy how those men came together and worked together. Nor did I like the week to week gaslighting of we have to do a little bit of better job of communicating and do a little bit better in the situations and we're just ready to, you know, once we get on the same page and once we rest and once we. I'm glad like the press conferences are over. I'm glad. It's how he sees and let that man cook. And yeah, I'm curious to see what happens with the offensive coordinator job. Who you got? I mean, I, you know me. I'm a mad scientist. I love Mike McD. I would love Cliff. And I'm just a vibes guy. So the fact that Vic Fangio just walked out of Miami rather than work for Mike McDaniel, the idea of them both being at the Novigare complex is very fun. Team of rivals, right? Worked for Lincoln. And who among us is more like Abraham Lincoln than Nicholas Siriani? Just a man of great vision, of temperate spirit. It's really beautiful. I've been watching it. No, no, no. I've not watched as many Ken Burns documentaries as you. Yeah, I just, I am at peace. We won Super Bowl. That's awesome. If we had not won the Super Bowl last year and this was the follow up. I have to tell you something. You're not at peace. Compared to what I could have been. Sure. Yeah. Do you feel that an, do you think that this was a classic post game podcast for me in terms of like, do you think my energy matched? I do wonder what your land man takes would have been if you would watch land man earlier in the week. I would have been like Ainsley makes some good points. She's just trying to have a good time. And they can kind of a buzz kill. That's probably true. I just, I spend a lot more time. Like when we text, you know, I think it's, it's unsurprising. Like our friend Zach is really, he's in the X's and O's. He's, he's crushing the all 22. He has a lot of points of view about under center play action, how it could be deployed. And I'm like, Fred Johnson and Jordan Davis seem like beautiful men. I enjoy when they play fun games on Instagram for the social media team. And I want them to be happy. Yeah. And the team let them down, especially Jordan Davis and the Kobe team. We have to find out who's do, who's responsible for this. That's your, that's your vibe. Like Tim Robinson, the hot dog. Who's responsible for the way I feel. Kevin Ptulo and Nicholas Honest Abe, Sirianni. And I am, this is, this has never happened in my modern sports fandom where I am actually so eager for next weekend. I actually was like, it seems so nice to have a psychologically uncomplicated weekend in my future. But it's frustrating because this whole thing was wide open. And if they had just been able to actually have a semi decent offense, I think we could. Well, this is your opportunity to become a Triangellino, get behind the rims. Yeah. And is that where you're at? No. Who you got? I think the Bears. You like, you like our new villain, Ben Johnson. That's, it's football, man. It's not the United Nations. Like I don't understand why are people scandalized that he was like, fuck the Packers. Like same. I don't know nothing against the Packers. I'm just like, it's football. Do you feel like we have to be like that? Do we have to adopt a horse in the NFC? No, I mean, I guess I do not like the Bragos. I guess I kind of like the Seahawks and I want me and it to be happy. But that's NFC. I will, I feel like it is incumbent upon us now that we have actually had sustained success and we are not perpetual underdogs. I feel like Buffalo. They deserve it. I want Buffalo to win. I do. That's a, that's a town that there's- You've always been a Cathy Huckle guy. Look what she could, look what she did in nine days when she had a little pep in her step. Thanks to Gracie Manchin, new energy. That's right. Did you mention Cathy Huckle because I mentioned former governor David Patterson and you wanted to prove your bona fides as an upstate guy? Speed, do you, do you call it bona fides or bona fides? I say bona fides. Yeah, I say that too. Do you say niche or niche? Niche. Okay. What do you say? I kind of read the room. Niche or niche? Niche. All right, we can wrap it up. Okay. That's how we wrap it up. If we're nothing, if not niche. That's a great podcast. It's one of my favorites. My last one was, was memorable.