Epstein Files: Down the Rabbit Hole (w. Dr. Leslie Dobson)

This is Exactly Right. Huge news everybody, we're clearing out the merch store. That's right, our spring cleaning sale is happening now. You can get 20% off site-wide when you use code ERM, spring26, from March 26 to 29. That not only includes merch from My Favorite Murder, but all your favorite Exactly Right shows. And for even bigger deals, go to the last chance section and take 20% off already discounted items. This sale ends on March 29, so don't wait too long. That's ExactlyRightStore.com, promo code ERM, spring26. Some exclusions apply. Goodbye. Welcome to Brief Recess. Today, we're going to be talking about some very serious themes on the show of suicide, sexual violence, violence. So please listen with care, and we are going to list resources here on the screen for you to seek out if you feel like you need those resources. Take care of yourself, guys. Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Flitt. I'm Melissa Malbrand. Today, we're going to be talking about soup, transracialism, ice at the airport, secret lives of Mormon wives. That time, I was crying on the floor of Melissa's office. We have a wild interview with Dr. Leslie Dobbson talking about Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies. And I'm going to answer all your questions from the DM, so stick around. I was in Jupiter, and I don't, and so I'm texting Charmaine, and I'm like, where did you get this edible from? She gave it to me. Where did she get it from? We don't know where it came from. We can't figure out where the edible came from that I took. We don't know the provenance. You don't know the origin story. No, and now I'm like, are things that bad where I'm just eating drugs that I find in the house? I just took it. Did she find it in her bag with the head lint on it? So she did find it in her bag and she gave it to me, but it was in a little dime bag. No, there was no lint on it, but it was in a little dime bag. And so she gave it to me, but it was like a year ago. So it's just been in the cabinet in the cupboard. And I'm like, this is like the equivalent of when you were like, when you know, when you were a kid and your grandma had like a candy in her purse. And like, you know, literally was, I think I was in a toy store with Charmaine. We were shopping. And she was like, oh, do you want this edible? My friend gave it to me or something. And so, but I was, I was truly seeing sounds and hearing colors. I don't like that at all. And I texted her, I was like, where did you get this? Because you want another one? She was like, let me text my friend and find out. And then he couldn't remember. So now we've got a whole chain going around looking for the origin story. Anyway, how was your weekend? Gorgeous. Look at you. Oh my God, a vision. I'm going to remember. A vision. A vision. What is that? There was something I wanted to say to you and I can't remember what it is. It doesn't matter. Okay. Was it a slur? Maybe. As usual. As usual. Actually, this weekend, someone yelled at me. Did you have a coming? I was going to DC. So I was headed to DC. Why? Why were you going to DC? Amtrak. I spoke at an event. Okay. And so I had to take Miss Amtrak. Okay. And since the airports are... Focac'd. Truly a hot mess in America right now. Amtrak has really taken a brunting as well. I mean, and Amtrak already, the infrastructure is not terrific, right? So yeah. Yeah. It's hanging on by a thread. You're lucky if you have two rails for the train. So it's about, I want to say, a throng of 200 people waiting for the actual track to be announced, right? Because everyone like waits for the track. And it's all New York DC types. So people are just like standing there on their phones, very bored waiting for the track to be announced. I hear someone yell, hey, everyone stops and turns because there's nothing else going on in the train station. And I turn and this guy's looking right at me, locked eyes. Locked eyes. And he goes, hey. Because, yeah. My wife loves your videos. So now everyone on the platform turns, looks right at me. Maybe he's got an only family. Who is this guy? Who is this guy? I'm no one else knows who I am, except this one man who he doesn't even know who I am. So how did he know to shout you out? He must have seen something. But he was like my wife, not even me. I could give a shit about you, but my fucking wife never shuts up about you. I know everyone's staring at me. I'm red. I'm in like Jean's T-shirt hat. Like I'm not really dressed. I don't look. I'm not in the Michael Foot drag. I'm not in a suit. I don't actually look like. What do you mean? Like the way that people would recognize me. Wait. Do you mean to tell me that you fancy yourself to be this unrecognizable person? No one would ever catch it. No one would ever clock it. Totally random thing about being recognizable. I remember. So before I had weight loss, I was looking at a picture and had showed it to a friend of mine who didn't know me before. And she was like, you don't even look like yourself. And I reject that so much. Like this idea that I am a completely different person. No, you look not that you don't. It looks like a different version of yourself. Not like who's that person. Honestly, the thing that's like more alarming when I see those photos, your hair is like different. Yeah. It's straightened or it's treated. It's treated. It's treated. I don't know the I'm a bald ass bitch. I don't know what the term is. I'm sorry. I'm all this out. You would blow it out. Okay. Wait, so back to you. I'm sorry. This is not about me. So do you really do you think that people think that you look very different in person than not? It doesn't. So if I'm at the courthouse and the juries are getting out, multiple people. Oh my God. I love your videos. Michael. Yeah. I'm like in a context where if someone sees my video, I'm like within the context. But here I really was like, I think I was like kind of hung over from that at a bowl. I'm in my gym and like jeans and a T-shirt. Like I'm waiting on an Amtrak platform. I don't know. For some reason I just didn't think I wasn't ready for it. So then he says, can I take your photo? I said, sure. So I go to lean in for a selfie and he just takes a photo of me standing there with my back. So I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, you're leaning in. Just like this with my bags like, hey. Hi, wife. But I think I really made, I hopefully made her day. Maybe. It was really clear. If you are the spouse of the man, Michael on the Amtrak platform, could you please reach out to him? She was he was everyone was very nice in the situation. It was just alarming. No, no, no, no, no, but but reach out to him. It'll make him feel better. Everyone on the Amtrak was like staring the whole time. Well, they want to know what kind of videos are you making? Yeah. Did you see that? I just just saw this that the CEO of Onlyfans bought it. But what? He died. He died. He did. He bought it. Oh, he died. He. Okay. He's no longer with us. I don't know what happened. Was it like an autoerotic expixiation thing? I don't know. Let's Google it and find out. Yeah, let's go. We're going to get CJ. CJ, if you could just search Onlyfans on your work computer and let us know what comes up. We promise nothing will happen. I'll give you my credit card. Just let me know what comes up. We'll give you Karen Kilgeriff's credit card and you let us know what comes up and we'll see if she. We're just curious. We're just curious. Yeah. I used to have an esthetician who had an Onlyfans page. Really was it like poor, like, like Zip popping? Oh, no. She was my waxing and stuff. Oh, her only. No, sorry. Oh my God. Melissa, I thought that she was putting on Onlyfans for waxing people. No, no, no, no. Her, she had said to me, she's like, guess what? I have an Onlyfans page. Oh, good for her. And I was so deeply curious. And he went and it's you getting waxed. No, no, no, it wasn't. It wasn't. It was, but I never signed up for it. But I really wanted to. But I felt like I would be, it would be like a breach of some kind. I mean, if she's telling you about it, I feel like. And I asked, I'm like, what do you do on it? And she was just like, she said to me what she couldn't believe were the things that in her case, it was men paying her to do whatever, that the things that men would pay for, somebody gave her $500 for her to sit there in her bra and underwear eating soup. And I was like, that's it. And she was like, that's it. Oh, honey, I'm doing that for free. What? I'm doing that online. Right. Yeah. I know. Oh, I got to start ticketing these events. This is unbelievable. To eat soup. I underwear on her bed. Do you have a favorite soup recipe? I love soup. I could eat soup every day. I could eat soup. Oh my God. Right now, my favorite soup is white bean and escrow. I love it. Beautiful. It's so good. And any of those greens, they're all in season right now. It's like late winter. This is the best time to be doing all that. And I don't really like soup, so it's a problem. Really? He is, he's a particular eater. He likes what he likes. Okay. And he doesn't love soup. He does like bisque. Make me a lobster bisque. Okay, babe, no problem. It's a bougie ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My bougie ass, man. Brad can make corn chowder, and his grandfather taught him how to make it. I love corn chowder. It's really... It's so good. It's very good. The problem for me... There's a lot of dairy in that. I don't need three gallons of corn chowder and a household of two people. Nope. Because now I'm eating corn chowder for two weeks straight. I know, and now you hate it. And now it's... Yeah. Can we make a rash? Like, that's a rash in the corn chowder. But why don't you just have the recipe? I'm not... I can't... I can't give input in the kitchen if he's cooking. I don't have standing to litigate in that courtroom. We have a division of powers in the house. Like, it is bicameralism. There is the house. There is... And never the twain shall meet. I can't be given him because then he'll be in here trying to tell me how to slice a shallot. And that is... I'm already holding a knife. Or mandolin. Let's not... Yeah. Let's... Ducked by mandolin. Yeah. Let's do a sidebar. I know we wanted to revisit transracialism because we really just dropped that in the common section like it was hot. And I knew nothing about it. You found out live here on the scene what I knew about transracialism. Which was nothing. Zero. Admittedly, I also know very little about it. I just sort of fell into it and was just like, what is this? But that's the point of the algorithm. Right. It just drops you into that Birken unboxing video. And then before you know it, you're in a rabbit hole. I'm texting the lady at the Birken store. I don't even want one. Okay. Tell me about transracialism. Okay. So, I got a text message from someone that I know. They have asked that I keep their privacy. So I will do that. And this is what they said to me. Hi, Melissa. I listened to your most recent episode and was interested by your and Michael's conversation on transracialism and being transgender. I wanted to give you my thoughts on it. First, I'll start by saying that I am speaking from a biased perspective on the matter. But I do think there is an important difference between the two. Both gender and race are essentially made up social constructs that don't even have the same definitions from culture to culture and even from person to person. But to me, what makes being trans different than being transracial is in the actions and decisions in the people in the two communities are making. When someone like Rachel Dozal decides to become a black woman and takes up a position as president of the Spokane NAACP chapter, that comes at the expense of a community that she does not belong to. On the other hand, the transgender community is not doing things like that. We are not speaking on behalf of cis women or cis men. And I've personally never heard of a trans person who argues that they are. Trans people for the most part speak only on behalf of other trans people. This is where I see the difference. I always have more to learn and perhaps there's a perspective that I have overlooked. Even if you don't read this at all, I wanted to share my thoughts. I absolutely read this. And to the person when they know who they are, I adore you completely. And thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for participating. And our plan is we really hope to really get into this. We're looking for some experts. If anybody out there knows anyone, by all means, please shoot us an email. Because like Michael said, this sort of came into my algorithm randomly. I fell into like a rabbit hole over it, but I am no expert. And I think that it could be a really interesting conversation for us to have. I think so. And I think that's interesting because it's about behavior. It's almost not about identity. It's what you do with that identity. So this person was making the comparison between like trans people are just trans living, thriving, and then some trans racial people like Rachel D'Olazal are. Then you're surping areas that of the people of color communities. Right. Interesting. OK. Because it's not just that she decided, Rachel D'Olazal decided to live her life as a black woman. Yeah. But she went into what has been a historically black space. And was like, I'm the expert. And took a spot. Yeah. And took a spot that did not belong to her. And also, I think was like speaking on behalf of. Right. Because she was like, it's me. Right. She was speaking. I told you like the thing about her hair transition really, really bothered me because as somebody who went through it. Sure. I was just like, how dare you? Yeah. How dare you? This is your algorithm is showing. This is what's going on in our news feed and our TikToks or Instagram reels. What is happening? So you were taking a break from the news feed from the algorithm. I was. Are you back? I'm kind of back. Reluctantly. Are you kind of back him? I've seen you at my DMs a little bit later. A little bit. A little bit I've seen you back at my DMs. Yeah. I am back. It's hard. You know, it's one of those things where you take a break to sort of preserve your sanity. And the news is always. It always feels so. Everything just feels so dire. Right. Right. So you take a break, but then you're walking around another world and you don't know what's going on. And I don't. I also don't love that feeling. Not that I'm an expert on anything, but you know, being relatively informed, I think is important. Well, last night I was getting into bed and something within me said, you should open Instagram right now. Something within you. Something within the demon in me said, open Instagram. And I did. And you did. Brad's already passed out. Sure. The dogs. Worst Jack. Talked away in his bed. Yep. And there I was. And I open it and it says, updated one minute ago. Okay. The Air Canada. Oh. And the stairs collision. So now I'm seeing it and it's the worst thing that can happen to an influencer. I'm seeing it and everyone's asleep and I can't talk to anyone about it. So what did you do? I went to bed. But it was unbelievable. What I was like, this is crazy. I know. I need to talk to someone about this. So I guess the plane was landing. Yeah. And there was already an emergency at LaGuardia. Correct. And so they shut it down. Yes. And so the stairs were headed to some other emergency and the Air Canada plane hit the stairs. Okay. Both pilots died. Both pilots died, I know. That's awful. I know. It's awful. I mean, and it's obviously, you know, any loss of life is terrible, right? But it's not just that. It's also the repercussions of this accident. Yes. Yes. So I had a colleague who was supposed to fly in from somewhere. Now they're stuck where they are. Interesting. Yeah. And they won't be able to get back in until tomorrow. And I mean, I think it also shows us how fragile our infrastructure is for everything. And how reliable it is upon the federal government. Right. Exactly. The planes at LaGuardia and their success at landing are directly connected to whether or not the federal government has funding, right? Like, we can't just sort of like break these pieces apart. No, you can't. They're very connected. The chaos at an airport is directly due to the funding bill being paused. So I thought that was interesting. I mean, TSA and ICE agents today, today's, we record on Monday. So I've already made a couple of videos today. If you want to check them out online about what's going on in airports. I've been reposting this is very much breaking news, but TSA agents are not getting paid. Some of them are still at airports in America, but ICE agents are now going to be in American airports as of today, Monday. Right. So. Now is the idea behind that to take the place of the TSA agents that are not there? Or is it some other role that they're taking on? Fucking knows what they're supposed to be doing and what they're doing there. Because they're supposed to, I guess this is big stop gap for staff. I don't even think the president could say why he has ICE agents in airports. Right. They're supposed to be serving as TSA agents, but literally it's the first day they're there. We're already seeing them arresting migrants in airports. Are they masked? Some are masked. A lot of them are not. Okay. And so there's videos of them running away from photographers at the airport because they don't want to be photographed. Gee. It's almost like you're doing something you're not supposed to do. That you have to run away from a photographer. If you're running away from a photographer, maybe you're not doing the wrong thing. Maybe you're doing the wrong thing. Yeah. And you know, couldn't happen to better people as far as I'm concerned. And the thing is, is that I made a video about this is what, if you're anyone other than a US citizen, don't travel. At least for a week or two. Yeah, I saw that. See what happens. Let's just like, we already know every time these people in air quotes people are deployed to a city that they do something they're not supposed to do. Right? We already know they don't care about the Constitution. They don't care about the Fourth Amendment. Nope. They don't care about, anyway, they don't care about your First Amendment, right? They can and will detain you if you are just a person of color. They don't care. So, everyone freaked out when I made that video and they were like, well, what about my trip and I'm on a contract and I'm supposed to be on a cruise and my sister's cousin has to travel for work. I meant what I said. Do not travel. I will and I said it, I will always be the most careful of the opinions of the voices in this space. My job is to keep you out of removal proceedings. Once we're there, it's a lot harder for me to help you. There are plenty of things I can do in immigration court and help you in a removal proceeding, but let's not let it get there. Let's cancel the trip. There's a difference between taking a precaution and being safe and having to claw back and figure out let's avoid an emergency situation if possible, no matter how convenient. So, that is still what I suggest people do despite the overwhelming number of people who reached out asking me about their specific situation. Do I really have to be sure about my trip? I'm going to double down. I'm going to tend toes down on this one and say, wait two weeks and see what they're doing. It's day one and I'm already watching a woman being tackled in Oakland. So, let's wait. Let's wait. I want to keep you safe. Sure. That is where I'm coming from here. So, that was the one thing that was really all over my feet today. Pam Bondi though, subpoenaed by Robert Garcia and she's like, I'm not doing it, which means eventually if you avoid subpoenas enough a warrant for your arrest goes out. I was going to say you get arrested. You get arrested. You get arrested. So, you know what? Don't go Pam. Don't go honey. I would have loved to see that photo. I could not wait to see this woman with no extensions, no filler in an orange jumpsuit. I got a spot for you on my lock screen when you're ready. When we get that photo. I would love for that. You're going to take Jack off your screen for Pam? For Pam Bondi getting perp walked into absolutely. I would take anyone. No one in my life is more important than that visual. My husband will tell you, he'll agree. Speaking of spouses, have you followed the secret lives of Mormon lives trauma this weekend? Oh, it's not the chick who the beck the bachelorette. Yeah. Throw in stools and take in names. We've got what's her name? Taylor Frankie Green. Yeah. So, these are not things that I watch, right? Like I'm not a bachelorette person. I'm not a secret housewives or anybody person. The secret housewives. Of whatever it is. This is just not. Don't tell anyone I'm a stay at home housewife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think they're not things that I'm interested in. But again, if you're on social media, it came across and I did when I saw her throw in the stool, I went back to look at her whole face. Like what is happening here? You know what I wonder? I wonder, because think about this is a huge franchise. It makes a ton of money. And I wonder who's going to lose their job over this because the person was not vetted. We found out it was Taylor Frankie Green because they canceled the bachelor. Right. But do you know what I'm saying? I always wonder about that. What is the vetting process? What are the questions that are asked or not asked? Yeah. Well, because no one's more dangerous than a white woman on reality TV. Like that is going to be the most treacherous person you're going to meet. Unless it's a white woman at your job who's crying. Go ahead. That is really real. You feel, I do. You seemed like you had more to say on that subject. No, that's all. No, that's all. White women crying in the workplace. I like, okay, okay. You've told me a bit about these situations. Sure. Yeah. I gotta tell you. White women cry at work and say that black women were being mean to them. Or they just cry. Like there's nothing like, I mean. I've had people cry in my office before. Well, yeah. I've had people cry in my office, but they're crying in my office. But it was me. Yeah, it was Michael. Michael was crying in my office because he put, what did you do to your eye? Oh, I got a migraine. I had a really bad migraine. But what did you do? So we went to Alyssa. That's what. Right. And she, I was like, Alyssa, what do I take for migrants? Because she's a migrant girl. She has a migraine, yeah. She gets them all the time. And she was like, oh, and she opens up her purse. And she gave Michael like four, no, four like bottles of nail polish tumble out. Along with like a couple of things of like CBD. Right. Of like topical. Right. And she's like, so you put them here, here, here and here. They were highly mentholated. Yes. It was peppermint or menthol or something. And Michael somehow gets into his eye. So I put it on and then I rubbed my eyes. And now he's crying in my office. On the floor. And I'm looking at him. Laying on the floor. And I'm like, what? And Michael says, help me. So this is what I did. This is what I did. And let me tell you how I knew what to do. But I bring over my garbage pail and I open a bottle of water. And now I'm waterboarding. And I look at this. I couldn't see much because I had a migraine and now I have oil in my eyes. Yeah. Now he's blind. I do have a visual of Melissa looking at me. And I do feel like at one point in your world, your eyes like, I'm going to have to douche this man's eyeball. Like I can't believe I'm doing this at work. But you have to ask me, Melissa, why do you know how to have a glimpse of my ball? And everybody in my family knows this story. When my brother was about five years old, my brother crazy glued his eyes shut. No, wait. This is a plot point on season two of the pit. This happened episode one. Yeah. Really? Anyway. This girl crazy glued her eye together. My brother crazy glued his eyes shut. And my mother, my father was at work. And my mother at the time was in graduate school. And she was doing like her last thing. And my brother comes out and he's crying with one eye shut. So the tears aren't coming out. It's getting bigger. And then my mom looked at him and looked at me and she said to me, Melissa, fix your water. Fix your brother's eye, buzz, glue, shut. So I had to take my brother. So my brother was like five. So I must have been like 16 years old. Oh my God. Take my brother into the bathroom. And I probably scalded the shit out of him. Because now I've got his eye under hot water. And I'm putting Vaseline on it. And I took a paper clip to like pick off. But you know what? He's fine. He's fine. He can see again. He can see again. That was like, that's like full triage. You you're this is actually nurse Jackie. Like this is. I remember, I remember once just talking to a therapist and telling a therapist. But I wasn't talking about this because I was fine. Right. Yeah. But he was like, Melissa, that sounds very traumatizing. And I'm like, is it? This is like your jury story from last week. You were under reacting to life, babe. And my jury story last week, you were like, yeah. So yeah. Anyway, the mob stuffed this guy in a trunk and dragged him across state lines. It was his random Yahoo who stuck this poor man in the trunk of his car and drove him across. Was he okay? What happened? The man? Yeah. Yeah, he was okay. He testified. Oh, then that is going fuck that then. I mean, I mean, he was okay. Let that guy off. He didn't commit a crime. No, no, no, no. What was what it was for me, what was boring was the process. Okay. It was lengthy and nobody was like, I object. There was none of that. It was just like, oh. And they were like, and what was he wearing when he stuffed you in the trunk of the car? And you were like, God, this is get me the fuck out of here. So boring. No, I know. Okay. Anyway, that's how I knew how to save Michael's eyes. So if you have an eye problem, I'm your girl. Chief of Ophthalmology at brief recess at I Heart Studios, Melissa Malbranche. Anyway, oh my God. All right, we'll be right back. Let's take a break. I do now my eye itches as you say it. Huge news, everybody. We're clearing out the merch store. That's right. Our spring cleaning sale is happening now. You can get 20% off site-wide when you use code ERM spring 26 from March 26 to 29. That not only includes merch from my favorite murder, but all your favorite exactly right shows. And for even bigger deals, go to the last chance section and take 20% off already discounted items. This sale ends on March 29, so don't wait too long. That's exactly right. Store.com, promo code ERM spring 26. Some exclusions apply. Goodbye. Welcome back to brief recess. This is Under Oath. We're going to do a deep dive. We've got an incredible guest. On today's show, we have Dr. Leslie Dobson. She's a forensic clinical psychologist. She's worked with individuals in maximum security suffering from severe mental illnesses. She does forensic evaluations, assesses sexual abuse allegations, and focuses on the validity of post-entry emotional, cognitive, and behavioral functioning. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Dobson. I thought it would be great to have you on the show today to talk a bit about the Epstein files and what we've seen happening with the case in America. I know that you have done a few of these interviews talking about, is Epstein alive? What's happening with this autopsy? I would love to just get into it with you. Melissa and I talk about this a lot. So, this is really an area of interest, especially as everyone is learning more and more about these files as we dig into the actual documents. Yeah. I mean, my opinion would be, I think I would even testify to this. I opined to the fact that he is still alive. Yeah. And I think what's so interesting, there are a lot of people on the internet who are saying that. But I think you're one of the few people who is drawing upon what I know from cross-examining and examining doctors and forensic texts. In court, you're really relying heavily upon your expertise in your area of practice. So, I thought it would be cool if we could sort of go through it a bit today and talk about whether or not this report from his hanging ruled suicide, what rings true to you, where you see the holes and errors in this case. I can draw upon a little bit of his attempted suicide a few months prior as well. Okay. All right. Great. Let's get into it. We have to pick apart the trees, but we have to see the forest for the trees at the same time. And I think holding that duality is difficult for people, and that's why there's so much controversy around all this. And that's oftentimes what we're doing in court, right? In a criminal trial, yes, we get the expert in on the really specific details. We're looking at the images. We're looking at the autopsy report, but we also have to look at the person. We have to look at the corpus of the evidence. We have to look at the circumstances. We can't just look at one specific detail, right? So, why don't we get started? Let's do this full trial style. Let's credential you as an expert. Tell us about who you are and your profession. Let's get right into it. Okay. A little voir dire here. Yes. Dr. Leslie Dobson, a real licensed psychologist, even though people on the internet don't believe it. I don't believe I'm a lawyer either, so it's fine. God forbid we have personalities and do our jobs. I got a bachelor's degree in psychology. I have two master's degrees. One, arguably regrettable and Freudian dream interpretation and psychoanalysis, but I got to travel a while to do it. And then I have a doctorate in forensic psychology and a fellowship in high-risk sexual offenders. So, you really are the expert in this space then. I mean, this is really someone who has studied and is credentialed as an expert in this field. Definitely. I've testified in over 50 trials. I've been deposed well over 60 times at this point. And I, both criminally and civilly, but I worked for the government for a long time, which gave me access to the nasty fuckers of this world. And then when there was a hit on my life, I decided to go into civil litigation and get out. Oh yeah, good for you. To stay safe, it's really hard to be a badass expert and also not be alive. So, it's good that I'm in there. Yeah, I can't carry my gun in there. Yeah, okay. Okay. So, looking at the Epstein files, looking at the death of Epstein, the official ruling was suicide by hanging. What is your first response to hearing that? It doesn't make sense. The bone breaking does not line up with typical hangings by suicide. The way that it looked on his neck, how it was angled, is not how it should have been. It should have been angled upward. Looking at the grid where he allegedly had hung himself. I've responded to hangings and in state hospital systems, you don't take the person down. You do not immediately try to save them because they may be trying to kill you. It could be a trick. So, you always wait for a second person to arrive before you save their life. It's really fucked up. I know, but your safety is more important than theirs. Interesting. And so, that's protocol. Oh, it is protocol. You do not singularly break up a fight. You do not singularly do anything that has potential risk of violence to you. And you would say that that's kind of like an industry standard, that everyone is on the same page about that? Yes. I mean, that's the Department of State Hospital training. Okay. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah, that's really interesting, actually. So, if you are an employee at a prison or something and you walk into a cell and you see the person and as far as you can tell the person is still alive because there's movement, you are not permitted to cut that person down. You have to wait for your partner to come. So, by the time that person comes, that person might actually be dead. Right. Interesting. You know, if I break the glass and I get the cut scissors and I pull my alarm and the alarms are going off and I go in and cut him down, what if he wraps his legs around my neck and breaks my neck? There's violence every single day. Sure. Yeah, that's right. It could be a trick. Wow, that's amazing. I didn't really think of that. But... It's sad we have to live in the defensive way, but they brutalize us as employees in the state hospital system every single day. Wow. Right. So, in this scenario, what happened? The guard did cut him down. The guard took him down. Right. And it was high enough up that you would have seen a line, right? It would have had an upward trajectory. When you self-asphyxiate, you're going to be forward-facing and that's how it was described. And then the rope would be up behind him or the tear torn towel. Now, the first time he tried it, it wasn't successful. I haven't seen pictures of the first time, but it was a similar description. And then the second time, somebody would have come in, there would have been two people coming in. Oddly, the cameras glitched the first suicide attempt and the second. That's so strange, right? And so, you would cut the rope and then you would immediately start CPR. So, what happened in this situation then with Jeffrey Epstein? Did they do follow any of those protocols? From what I read, they cut him down and he had already died. I don't know if they... I hadn't read anything about CPR and there was no alteration to his rib cage or his muscles where you would... You could usually break some ribs. You messed stuff up. You'd have some significant bruising with real CPR. And before he allegedly committed suicide, there were issues with his body that were not present in the autopsy report, right? Yeah, he had small testes. I'm kidding. The fake body had small testes. Okay. So, Michael, control yourself. She said the fake body. Right. So, but do you think that... Because I'll tell you, when I had heard that Epstein had died, I had died by suicide, my first inclination was he didn't die by suicide. Somebody killed him. Right. That is... That was as opposed to me believing that he wasn't dead, that the whole thing was a hoax. I was like, he didn't kill himself. Somebody killed him. Right. So, but you're telling us that your belief is that he is not dead at all. Yes. And not only from from ripping apart the autopsy, talking to morticians, you know, the one of the doctors who's been doing this for 50 years and said, how bizarre this is. Okay, that could lend to murder, sure. But now we're looking at this massive Epstein network, an international network pulling in the KGB and Israel and Norwegian assets. You don't think this guy had the power to know he was going to go to jail and then get out? I mean, the prison guard got five grand before they even knew he was going there. His estate won the $80 million dollar power ball a week after he went into prison. It's just too much information to say that he didn't have his wherewithal to just get out of prison. Melissa and I are looking at each other like this is unbelievable. Yeah. I was saying this to Michael earlier. I listened to an interview that you gave recently and I think the thing about it is that we don't want to believe that any of this is true. Do you know what I'm saying? In the sense of like listening to this idea that Epstein and his cronies, they were cannibalizing people. It's one of those things that you want to believe is so far fetched that it couldn't possibly be true. Same thing with this idea that he was so powerful that he knew all the right people in all the right places to smuggle him out somehow. It sounds like something that is made up. It sounds like something that you've seen on the big screen. Because we've seen movies where somebody's going to do like a prison break and they fake their death. They cart the body out in the coffin of someone else. We've seen those stories before, but this idea that this is something similar-ish happened here, it feels so unbelievable that you want to believe that it's not true. Does that make sense? I do and I think it's hypernormalization. I think the dump of the data was purposeful and the amounts were purposeful. There are images that have been taken offline that were there. I think they wanted to quickly shut everyone up and then bomb Iran and hope it went away. I do believe that we distract in politics. It's too convenient. Every time we hear about a dump or about images or a really damning email, suddenly it's taken down off of the website. And then there's some other calamity elsewhere that happens to sort of- they're trying to bait and switch us. Oh, look at this other shiny thing. Don't focus on this thing. It makes too much sense often. I think that I know that recently there have been some subpoenas that have gone out for people to testify for guards that were there the night of this alleged suicide. Can you speak to that a little bit? Correct. The House Oversight Committee has subpoenaed at least one of the guards who was there that night. And in particular, she has received payments from the EBSC in a state in amounts of $5,000. That is not that much money in my mind. I'm like, that is not enough to cover up. It feels like that's not enough money for this person to risk all of this. Right. $5,000. You're dealing with really dangerous people. You'll get $5,000. It just feels- Right. So then what was the money for? How many times did she get it? Are there multiple accounts? Do we know? She's a good person to question. And $5,000 is usually the amount that doesn't flag too much attention in bank statements. Oftentimes in cases I've dealt with, it's usually people are keeping transfers on the smaller side because it doesn't trigger any sort of IRS scrutiny. I thought it was under $10,000. Yeah. Like $9,990. People are trying to keep it. Yeah, like on the lower scale. Right. I mean, $10,000 is the limit to go to Mexico. But not you telling us how to do it. Right. Not the how-to guide. So do we believe as far as this particular prison guard that it was only a one-time $5,000 payment and have they been able to explain why did she get that $5,000 at all? She hasn't spoken to it. She hasn't explained. They haven't explained, but it's in his financial records that were exposed and Congress plans to ask about it. Okay. And then he also purchased two ambulances shortly before. And then there's another prison guard who sent an email that's in the files and the FBI referenced it. I think he used 4chan or Discord to state that they moved a body in at midnight, right, when the cameras cut out. I saw about that. Yeah. So, okay. So we have these little dribbly bits of evidence that are sort of like dropping in here and there. What do you think happened? Like what is your hypothesis? I would just assume he walked out with his friends and they brought in another body. And that's why we have three doctors who did the autopsy with varying information. And now he's had plastic surgery, changed his face and living in Russia. It's unbelievable. That's crazy. Again, it just sounds like one of those things that you don't want to believe is true because it sounds like something that you would see in a movie. But then when you lay the evidence out, it does make a little too much sense, right? I mean, this is an extremely powerful person involved with other really powerful people who is now in a relatively low-security prison situation. I mean, yeah, it does kind of make sense. I mean, when Charlie Sheen came into LA County Jail, he was on a one-to-one. It's fucking Charlie Sheen. Like we could not take our eyes off him. You don't leave someone like Jeffrey Epstein alone for a second. You have a one-to-one eyes on. You are writing on a little log, all your 15-minute check-ins. You're documenting everything that wasn't happening. That's completely unimaginable. And he was technically classified as someone who was supposed to be on Suicide Watch. Because he had just tried. I was going to say, was he on Suicide Watch before the previous attempt or once that attempt? It was after that. It was after that. After that. Okay. Months prior. We could say he had a little practice. He got better at it and succeeded, but it doesn't look like an actual suicide to the doctors who for 50 years haven't been investigating hangings and dead bodies. There's been a lot of talk in the Epstein files about cannibalism and people eating people. And I know that you've worked on cases that involve cannibalism in the past. Could you talk a little bit about those cases and your experience and how that applies here? Sure. I've had patients all of, they've all had mental illness, severe mental illness from schizophrenia ranging to, if you want to say psychopathy is a mental illness, we would call that, we would say they had antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. And then we would give them the psychopathy inventory. They would rank high. And then that's how it would determine it because it's not a diagnosis. But between both of those individuals, I have come across many in the state hospital system, in jails and prisons, and especially at Coalinga State Hospital. That's where we hold the sexually violent predators in California who have eaten people for a variety of reasons. I mean, I think, so there's kind of three categories of cannibalism. It would be the survival, you know, airplane crash, we got to eat people to survive. Right. The yellow jackets. Right. Right. That freaked me out more than meeting them in real life. But that, and then we have the ritualistic, satanic, ritualistic, and we see that a lot in pop culture. We see that on TV. We see that in movies. Right. Right. And then, you know, what is cannibalism is drinking blood under that category? We don't really have the real definition for what it is. If you cook it, does it, does it count? But then you have the more satanic. Yes. Yes. Answer yes. Yes. It counts. Yeah. If you cook a person, does it count? Of course. Why is that? I don't even understand why that's a question. I'm sorry. The lawyer should have asked that. That's a grasp. Sorry. Just for everyone watching, if you, yes, it counts. I'm like very stuck on this. I can't believe that that's a question. Who has that question? Get them in the studio. People ask me these questions all the time. You know what? I cooked it. It don't count. Oh my God. It's just, again, it just sounds so wild, right? That people are asking questions like that. It's easier to be like, y'all are crazy. Yeah. Discredit the person giving you the information because the information is so ridiculous. Wild, right. But it's one of these things that, I mean, that's happened throughout history, right? We've always had people discrediting and saying that you're crazy for saying that. And then 50 years later, everyone's like, oh yeah, no, they were right. Right. In prison Galileo. And I fully grasp that there are targeted smear campaigns and Hillary Clinton and Pizza Gate, you know, nobody kind of believed it. And maybe they used that, you know, as a political attack. But there's also very real elite individuals and satanic rituals that drink blood and kill children on purpose and eat parts of their body. That's like a very real thing happening in America. Well, largely in other countries, I mean, I don't think we'd hear about it so much in the obscene files. But the, for thousands of years, they've been doing this in these rituals and these, you know, private clubs, you could say. This is too crazy. This is too crazy. But I just, I'm wondering what is, what is the purpose, right? Like why, why is this the thing, right? You have this very elite group of people. There's this club. And, you know, and I always wonder, like, where is someone in life where they decide that that's the thing that I'm going to do to get you to join my club? And then the other person's like, yeah, that's a good idea. I'm going to, I'm going to do that. Whatever happened to annual dues, you know, like whatever happened to membership fee, yeah, whatever happened to typing? Well, but no, but seriously, I am curious. Like what is, what is the purpose of, I mean, I think, let's say that I choose to accept this notion of a ritual, okay? I may disagree, but I accept that that's what it is. But this idea of belonging to a, like this elite club or this elite group of people, what is, based on what you know, what is the reasoning behind this? Why would somebody think that that's what you need to do? I think with the Epstein case, and it's, this is different than a lot of the cannibals that I've met. But with the Epstein case, youth and life longevity were a big thing, right? He was trying to make the perfect baby, you know, adrenochrome, all this stuff. Right, these designer babies were big. The designer babies, right? But I think, so you've got the longevity, but then I think you have to really think about the spirituality and the ritualistic nature of people and that human sacrifice has been a thing throughout the history of humans. And when you reach that, that group or that level, in that sacrificial moment is going to bring you to that next level of religiosity, in my mind, delusion. But they believe it. And so as you're sort of looking at the Epstein case, at the everything that happened in the prison where he was being held, and now this autopsy report, what really stands out to you? Is there anything else in that autopsy report where you're like, this is totally something that people need to be talking about that they're not picking up on? His prostate was there in the body, but in the files, they said his prostate was removed. They said his urethra was on one side of the tip of his penis, oddly placed, and his penis was egg shaped. That wasn't noted in the autopsy of the body that they determined was his. There are tattoos and people argue saying he had stick on fake tattoos. He did. He also had real tattoos that weren't noted in the autopsy. And then we have the more conspiracy, not that we're already in it, but of his nose changing, his eyes shape changing, his lips, his ears. I mean, people have gone to town comparing his ear lobes. I don't know how if your ears change when you die, but... There's a photo of him after his death where it almost looks like he's smirking. It looks like a faked photo of him in the cell. I think there's a lot of AI. There's definitely AI. Then we've got Palm Beach Pete, who's getting a lot of attention lately. He looks just like him. Yeah, there's this guy in Palm Beach who's been driving around in a convertible, and he looks exactly like Jeffrey Hempstead. And everyone sees him and is freaking out. It looks just like him. Wow, our producer just showed it. Wow. Okay. Well, he's using it to his benefit. Yeah. Yeah. So where do you see all this heading? Right? We've got so many... We have more questions than answers when it comes to the files. Will there be some sort of accountability in this case? Because it's so clear this administration wants this shut down. They don't want to talk about it. They want everyone to move on. And every time they do that, everyone just starts looking at it closer, giving them more attention. Right. And then I think also asking why in other countries people are going to jail. They are losing their jobs. What's his name? Got unprimised or whatever you call it. Yeah. Yeah. We've removed him from... Right. So there are people who are feeling the repercussions of just having known this man, whereas in this country, nothing. It feels like nothing is happening. I think there's actually a lot more happening than people know about. I mean, the UK is now demanding unredacted files so that they can investigate inmate Andrew. So that will move forward. Let's see if they get the files. Let's see if they get pushed back. But other countries may need to help us out in that regard and start trying to obtain the information themselves. But I think... And tell me if I'm wrong because I'm not the lawyer, but I think the key is building a RICO. I think we've got to start from the bottom up. We have doctors who have a lot of information that are still practicing in Ohio, at UCLA, Princeton, Stanford. We have dentists. We have groundkeepers. We have chefs. Right. Columbia University Medical Center, there was someone who was affiliated with Epstein and the women that he abused. And she was a doctor who would treat the women. This has been a long-standing, intricate network of professionals, business people who are all a part of this network. It's not just one person. Right. It's not just him and just Galeen. Galeen, yeah. Right. So if you... I think it was stupid to depose the Clintons. Well, I don't think they intended to depose the Clintons. I think they said, oh, we're going to depose them thinking that they were going to say no. And then Hillary Clinton snapped off her press on nails and took off her earrings. Hostombed. Grabbed up. Hostombed right into the... Yeah, and she yanked up Bill and was like, listen. Yeah, she said buckle up, Buttercup. Like, I don't think people thought that they were going to testify. Did you listen to it? I did. And right after they agreed to testify, we've got a clip of Trump being like, oh, I always liked and respected Bill. I thought he was a nice guy. It was like right after he was like, you better testify. And then they asked him after Bill said, yes, he was like, you know, he's always been such a nice guy to me. He's a strong president. I mean, Hillary, yeah, she showed that she was like a rock star, telling them that they were all idiots and how to lawyer. You want to set up a pattern. You want to corner me. Let me help you out. You pinch the right bitch. Yeah. Right. But then Bill, I mean, utterly pointless until the moment he saw the pictures. Yes. And then the admiration for those pictures told the world he's been on that island and he had some orgasms there. Yeah. Yeah, he was a little bit too excited to do a walk down memory lane on an island. Well, the other thing was what I thought was super interesting about this because I watched it was his attorney was sitting next to him. And at one point, she grabbed the pictures. She was like, no, no, no, no, no, give me that. But it was more like, give this to me. You know what I mean? It was it was it was more like that. It was more like, you stupid idiot. You gotta keep this. You gotta keep this photos away from him. He gets too much. Yeah. I wonder with the work that you do, it's, you know, it's a very heavy emotional lift. How do you take care of yourself? Because I feel like so one of the things I'll say is that I have at one point or another started and stopped to look at the Epstein files that I see online. And it is overwhelming. It is overwhelming for me. And similarly, I was listening to this interview that you gave. And again, I had to stop. I picked it up again, but I had to stop because it's overwhelming. And I just wonder you are doing this work, this really hard, yeah, necessary work because somebody needs to tell us what's happening. Right. How do you take care of yourself? How do you have the appetite for this? I eat a lot of beef jerky. No, I am my husband's a psychologist. I do Pilates a lot. I love Pilates. I think it's better than meditation, having to hold yourself in the air and not die is phenomenal to get out of your head. Yeah. But I've had great mentors and I've had great training and I've learned over time to leave work where work should lay. And I have active cases now. I have two reports that are going to trial and I have to finish them this week. So I have my own distractions, even though they're still dark, they're still the rape cases, they're difficult cases. But we win. I win all the time. I win settlements for people. I bring justice to victims. I close schools. I take money from the Catholic Church. I close diocese. I put people behind bars. And every moment of that erases the trauma I endured to get there. And every child I save, I just did a Hague international case, a child abduction case. So now I'm working all around the world and 99% of those cases fail. The kids get sent back to the violent parent. I won. We won. I got hurt well enough. I tested everyone psychologically well enough to explain. And that, to me, those wins make it worth it. Sure. No, it's just, I just can't imagine it. And I don't know, I feel like I want to say thank you because it just feels like really, really difficult, constantly like uphill work. Yeah. Do you get a lot of pushback on the internet for your videos or from other experts even? Because I get that sometimes. Not from other experts. Independent journalists do like to write hit pieces on me and like the Wall Street Journal, things like that. But other experts, we're in line with how we view this and we support each other. But I get a lot of death threats. And those aren't from the experts. Those are just from people. So I have a dog sent from Serbia who speaks German. I conceal and carry. I have people that watch me. So I have to take precautions. To protect yourself. Yeah. Right. So in your opinion, as you're sort of looking at the overall Epstein situation, and I just want to ask, and it sounds like you have a lot of experience with these types of systematized abduction of children, what are you seeing here in this case? Right? As an expert in this area of practice, what are you really seeing as you observe the Epstein situation from the outside? I'm seeing the world drastically trying to normalize the age of consent to minimize pedophilia and to minimize the severity of child trafficking across the world. And a lot of people hate on Tim Tebow. I don't know much about him, but his organization has done a phenomenal job really pointing out trafficking and the dangers of it. They put money behind it. The statistics are really solid. If you were to Google it, you might see 100,000 kids missing in America a year, I'd say it's well over 300,000. Where the fuck are they all going? Yeah. I've had people sell their children. I mean, that's how a lot got to Epstein was they sold their child for the day. A lot with the hope of becoming someone, becoming famous, white people went to the Playboy mansion and then got trafficked. But a lot of parents, the most likely person to traffic a child is the biological father. And trafficking doesn't mean gone for good. It could just mean sell for an hour. We also have to understand what this term trafficking means. Right. A lot of people think it's some sort of like transport. The person has disappeared somehow. Right. Yeah. Which is sometimes the case. Sure. These girls had babies. We don't know where the babies went. But a lot of the survivors who still have not been interviewed by Pam Bondi or the DOJ have a lot to say and they all have open investigations. And that's the movement we're not seeing. That's movement we can't see because they are actively going through these cases. Two things I want to ask you. So, have you had an opportunity to speak to Epstein victims and to hear what they say and to document what they say? Many. Many. Okay. And what happens with that information? Are you just holding on to it? Is there a plan? Because I think that's one of the things that I think about quite a bit. And I've talked about this with some friends. I feel like we're not hearing enough from victims. And is that because they want to protect themselves or are they being stifled? They are terrified of being sued for billions of dollars because we're talking about billionaires coming together with billionaires. And also they have open investigations going on. And so they can't tamper with the investigations. So when I do talk to them, I get limited information. Of course, it's not going to harm any of their cases. But I text a lot of Congress and I've been able to get a lot of their cell phone numbers and I will just rage text them. What did you know? I feel like a lot of people on the internet would like to rage text Congress. Do you get responses from them at all? Is anybody responding to you? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think out here in California, Robert Garcia has been incredible. I think Eric Swalwell has been incredible with this. Eric Swalwell voted to have the congressional sexual harassment stuff exposed. When so many people voted against that, that was very strange to me. A ton of women voted against having congressional sexual harassment allegations exposed. I saw that. That was unbelievable. And then it was like one of those things where the next day no one was talking about it anyway. Yeah, they made it go away. And this is sort of my, sorry, my last question for you. And I don't even know if you could really answer this question. But a few minutes ago, you said something about how we're trying to sort of normalize pedophilia and sort of have it sort of become more acceptable. So why do you think that we are this way? Because when I think about it, immediately I repulsed and I'm like, oh, that person belongs under the jail. Like get rid of this person forever. Why do you think that there is this tendency to either go easy on these people? Because it seems like if there was something we should all rally around is the protection of children, right? People who are innocent, you know, these are, I mean, they're babies, they're kids. Why do you think that we have such a hard time in throwing down the gauntlet and saying absolutely not? Because you can only sell drugs once, but you can sell a child's body over and over again. So that's in an email in the files. Yeah. So it's money. It's money. It's money. It's not you and I, right? We're not, I don't know if you guys are billionaires. I'm not. But, you know, I don't own giant corporations. I didn't start Victoria's Secret. It's them. It's Les Wexner. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for coming on the show. On that note. Yeah, it was really lighthearted. Thank you for coming on. Do you have anything you want to plug, anything you want to promote? I know you have a book out. Do you want to maybe mention that? Oh, it's kind of more like a pamphlet, but I did write a small book on setting boundaries with your friends. Maybe you should set boundaries with the Epstein files. Yeah. Anything you want to plug. And where can we find you on the internet? The book's called The Friend Cleanse, if anyone really does want to set boundaries with their friends, toxic friends. But on Instagram and TikTok, if I'm not violated because of Epstein, and then my website, it's good to check my website. I'm going to be co-producing several television shows and hopefully getting my own show soon. And so, you know, just check back and see what's happening. But also, I encourage everyone to vote. And you can go on my website and you can see where I have a link to the courage candidates and other candidates that are running for Congress who have a fucking backbone. Oh, that's great. That's great. We love that. We love that. I would love to check that out. Thank you for calling that to our attention. All right. Well, thank you so much. It was wonderful speaking with you. Thank you so much. Really, this was really interesting. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Leslie. Thanks. Take care. Huge news, everybody. We're clearing out the merch store. That's right. Our spring cleaning sale is happening now. You can get 20% off site-wide when you use code ERM, spring 26, from March 26 to 29. That not only includes merch from My Favorite Murder, but all your favorite exactly right shows. And for even bigger deals, go to the last chance section and take 20% off already discounted items. This sale ends on March 29, so don't wait too long. That's exactly rightstore.com. Promocode ERM, spring 26. Some exclusions apply. Goodbye. That was, I mean, even me and I see all this shit in court all the time and I'm still like, this is too much for me to handle. Yeah, it's one thing to sort of know that there are bad people out there, right? But this is beyond bad people. Well, I think we always think of the villain as the guy with the ski mask holding the bag of money with the dollar prints printed on it. It's a burlap bag. And this is like, oh no, it's actually the billionaires of America together in this network of hedonistic, pedophilic, crazy cannibalistic. And there's also cover-ups. It's just like, not only are you being asked to believe, and I'm not saying that I don't believe her, no, no, no, right. Not only are you being asked to believe that people are so disgusting and awful that they would do something like that. Just the depravity is to a certain level. But it's institutionalized and the institutions are compromised as part of it, right? Like these systems run so deep that they're a part of that the prison system could be part of a cover-up. Like that is just like so shocking and unbelievable. And that's what we're being asked to believe. That it takes forever for people to really digest that. So the Epsteinfile drop, I think that was strategic, right? They released everything at once, so the public was overwhelmed. And then it would, the news cycle, they'd be constantly competing with the news cycle. Yeah. That was crazy. I'm shooketh. Yeah, I actually don't quite know how to feel. Do you know what I mean? I'm like disturbed, but also like, again, and it's not that I don't believe her. It's more like my mind is blown that these people walk among us, right? That these are people. And I had seen something somewhere where somebody was like, we should be looking really hard at anybody who's a billionaire, because if you are a billionaire, there's something that you did that is not on the up and up. And that's how you got that. Now, I don't know if I believe that to be true, but it would sort of correlate with what you're saying, right? Like these are these, it's the people at the very, very top who have all this money and therefore have all this power, and they're able to get away with doing these types of things. Right. It's like, I think about this a lot in like a legal context when it comes to a class action lawsuit. And I get a check in the mail for $3 for something horrific that a company did. And I'm like, oh, this is just like a rounding error in their budget. Like justice for them was like a, was like a decimal point that they misplaced on a spreadsheet somewhere. We imagine that billionaires in America got there because they were smart and talented and not crazy. Right. That's actually, I think we're learning not true. No, I actually don't think that that's true. I don't think that's true either. But I think for a lot of people, they assume, oh, if you're a billionaire, you're really wealthy and successful. It's because you were smart enough to do it, to get there. But I don't, I think we're sort of culture is realizing that that is not at all the case. That is not the case at all. Actually, a lot of billionaires can be crazy and psychotic and not smart and actually really stupid. So I think that's what we're sort of rubbing up against here. This is Tales from the DMs. We're going to answer all the kooky crazy wild things you send me in my DMs and Melissa's DMs. Hmm. Friends, what do I always say? While Michael is a lawyer, he's not your lawyer. So get your own. Yep, ready. Okay. I'm going to read this one because I think it's really funny. So these are reviews that people left? Um, these are, yeah, these are reviews. Okay. And if you want to leave a review for us on YouTube or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, we will read some of your reviews because some of them are really funny. Yeah. You guys are really funny and we appreciate it. I'm ready. So this is from the episode that we had with Yana from America's Next Top Model. And this is from Lori. Okay. Lori says, sorry, I hate to be that bitch, but it's Bar Keeper's friend, which I'm not sure one would use on Le Cuisin. It's for metal, which would scratch the enamel coating. Oh, you know what, Lori? I think she says sorry to be that bitch. I don't think she's sorry. I don't think she's sorry. However, I am that bitch too. So I'm sisterhood, Lori. But, um, Lori does redeem herself and says the following. Love Michael and Melissa's friends in real life energy. They brighten my Thursdays. Thanks, Lori. I will. And that is a good point though, because it will scratch. I think there's metal in Bar Keeper's friend and that's like the exfoliant that you're using to get out. So you don't want to use that on. I get the sense that maybe I was also not calling it by the right name. You might have, it was probably like Bar Keeper's Bestie or something. I don't know. Sorry, Lori. You're probably calling it something. I probably was. Yeah. No, I correct people all the time too though. So do I. It's our toxic trait. If I have something in my teeth, Melissa will be like, you always... I have to. Well, I was pounding that almond croissant earlier. Okay. And I had powdered sugar all over me. All right. I would have, I didn't, I would... You didn't catch it, but I caught it. Okay. And I knew, but I was like, if I didn't catch this, I knew. And before you had a little something on your face. I had fuzz. It stuck in my stubble and Melissa caught it before we started rolling. Yeah. That's my job. So, Lori, we're right there with you, honey. Thanks, Lori. Okay. This is a heated rivalry clip when we were talking doing a deep dive in heated rivalry. This is from Jessica. Jessica just says one line. Scott absolutely bottoms once in the show after Kip gives him the socks. Which is absolutely... Is that all it took? It's like, he gave him socks and he immediately bottoms, but I will say, he doesn't bottom in the books. He doesn't. So, he's not verse in the books. So, that's what I was saying, the old testament and the new testament are different. Yeah. And... It happens. It's okay. It happens. Who among us has embotomed after receiving a pair of socks? I mean, some people don't even get socks. No, that's true. A lot of people are bottoming for nothing. I love this because it feeds right into Michael's vanity. So, this is from... Every woman has a man in their past who made them crazy. I stand by this. I, yes. Red Rose says, this camera and lighting is so amazing. Y'all look like AI. Thanks, Nick. Oh, hell yeah. Thank you, Nick. Oh my God. We did a full... He explained all the lighting chores before we were on today. A full deep dive. Because I want to know. I want to know what it looks like. I went to Sephora. I said, give me the stuff for the camera. I don't want this stuff for... Every day. Every day. I'm seeing friends, oh, and no makeup look. I want the makeup look. I don't want the no makeup look. But I also had to... Today, I had to stop Michael in his shop. I'm like, you're going to look a little too... Dusty. Dusty. Dusty. We don't want that. Yeah. Little corpsy. A little. Like a corpse. We don't want that. Corpse, not the true blood. No. Okay. And then one more. This is from Madame Lexi. These two are fun. Enjoying the show. Love their New Yorkiness. If you know, you know. It's true. It's true. My dad's even more New York-y than I am. Really? Yeah. When I... Where's your dad grew up? Long Island. Long Island. Long Island. And when I talk to him, sometimes I'm like, oh my god. Like, I... It starts to come out of me. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Keep it up, divas. Keep it up, divas. Diva. Diva. Oh, this one's subject. I'm diva. Michael and Melissa are so good together. It's so funny. Diva is my new vocal stem. That is... I want to make a ringtone, but I don't know how to do it of the diva ringtone. And then I'm scared it's going to go off in court. We'll make sure it doesn't, Michael. You know me. And you know I'm not going to make sure. I'm going to forget to do the... You really? My phone went off during this show recording. It did. That's true. And when I was out in LA, I was recording with camera. It's just a normal Apple one. I feel like I could make it though. We could... You could probably do that. We'll get the head of tech in here. I have a ringtone. I have like ringtones for everybody. You do? Yeah. Yours is just regular. What's mine? Yours is the... My ringtone for everybody, for the gen pop is... What's it for your mom? A doorbell. Oh, yeah. Ding dong. She's here. Yeah. She's here. My brother's is... There was this song a long time ago called Yo Little Brother. Okay. So it's that for him. All right. Andres is... It sounds like a computer, like a robot. Yeah, because he's a robot. Yeah. He's speaking of AI. No, it's true. My AI husband. He is, yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. So we talked about the Nido squishies last week. Did you get it? So I went back to the store. Well, I saw that sign. And before I could even get inside, I looked down. There is a red dot laser pointed directly at my chest. I'm not kidding. Okay. And I look up about 600 meters away. There she is. The owner of the store sniped me. On the door, I'm this is serious. This part's serious now. On the door, there's a sign that says, if you want a Nido, don't come in here. Get lost. Get bent. It said no more Nidos. And the FedEx delivery that I kept... She kept telling me come back for the FedEx delivery. It said missing. The FedEx delivery is missing. So I think one of these little rascally youths stole the Nido package. Probably. And it's just wild in selling Nidos. Black market Nidos. Black market because I had to pop in the trunk. Hey, man. I got Nido. I got Nidos for you. You want that? I got big ones. I got a small one. I don't have to really big ones though. I got a Nido. Do you want it? I think that's what's again. Are they all clear? No, they're different colors. Okay. Because she had one sample one and she held it up like the Hope Diamond. You know how they do about an auction? It was kind of like that. She had our handlers. She had our handlers. She was holding it up. Really? And so I sent the photo to my niece who cannot be satiated. There is no... No. There's an under... How old is Madeline? An 11-year-old isn't going to under. She's like, I don't care. Find it. I've loved her though. She's like, get in there. Sue. Yeah. Like what are you going to do to get the Nido? Madeline, when Michael and Brad were... This is like my favorite Madeline story. When Michael and Brad were getting married, they were a little bit late and I was talking to Madeline and... We were late to the ceremony. Yeah, they were late to the ceremony. And it was... There was a whole drama because I left Brad's suit in the city. Right. And it was a destination wedding. So he did not... About 30 minutes before we've got 200 people assembled, we realized we don't have his suit. Right. We have like jeans and a t-shirt and I'm dressed like this. Right. So it really was like a rags to riches story that we were about to tell. Where do you end up getting... We put him in a cab and sent him to like a nearby suit store. Right. Like local on Long Island. Right. And I called ahead of time and I spoke to the woman. And this woman, with such excitement, she had been waiting her whole life to receive the call. Yes, she was. An emergency gay wedding. Yeah. Oh. She was ready, honey. Yes, she was. Yes, she was. She seriously... I think there was like a button on the desk that she hit. And like the wall behind her fell. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like there were rags of clothing and she's like, what size? And she had them hemmed and ready to go. By the time he got there, it was ready. Yeah. And he was at the ceremony two minutes late. Right. But according to Madeline, I was like, Madeline, where are they? And she was like, I don't think they're coming. She was like four or five. She was like five years old and now she's like, what? She was going around telling people we weren't coming to our own wedding. They're not coming. But like, I need for people to understand, like she was this little bitty thing with glasses and like so cute, but also like... She's like, I really don't think so. Yeah, like standing steadfast in her conviction, they were not coming to this wedding. I don't think they're going to make it. And then I asked her to spin and she did. She's like, yeah, she's like, this is my party actually. I was like, you want to spin for me? She did. But they're not coming. All right. So someone messaged me directly on the internet. Asking me about it. I said, that's so weird. Like it was Grindr or something. It wasn't. It was just the internet. I just want to keep them anonymous. They said, hey, Diva, I would like to remain anonymous. Thank you for keeping... Thank you for not sending me your social security number like some people. Do you have any information about EAD renewals? So an EAD is an employment authorization document that immigrants use so they can work. Right. For TPS holders who are from El Salvador. So TPS, temporary protected status. It's basically like a ruling that USCIS customs says, hey, if you're from this country, you get sort of like temporary status. We're not going to deport you right away. So this person has TPS from El Salvador and they have an EAD renewal. The TPS is still valid until September, but the EAD expired March 9th. So they're trying to figure out what to do when TPS is still ongoing, but the EAD expired. So if that's the case, you can reapply for a new EAD. But I do think you might have mixed up this question because from my understanding, TPS for El Salvador is still in effect until September 9th of this year, 2026. So if your EAD has expired, you can apply for an EAD renewal now because TPS is still technically in effect for El Salvador. So that's the answer. So you're not shit out of luck like you thought you were. And that is actually something that you can fix. And they wanted to say thank you for what you and Melissa do. You're such a breath of fresh air. Keep grooving. And these trying times keep grooving. Thank you. That's very sweet. It's very sweet. You're often grooving. I do the best that I can. Yeah, but don't groove too hard because then you've got to go to the chiropractor. All right, this is brief recess. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you in court. Bye. You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote. And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch. Got legal questions? Reach out at briefrecess at exactlyrightmedia.com. Listen to brief recess on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video. Search for brief recess on YouTube. Huge news, everybody. We're clearing out the merch store. That's right. Our spring cleaning sale is happening now. You can get 20% off site-wide when you use code ERM, spring26, from March 26 to 29. That not only includes merch from My Favorite Murder, but all your favorite exactly right shows. And for even bigger deals, go to the last chance section and take 20% off already discounted items. This sale ends on March 29, so don't wait too long. That's exactly right. Store.com, promo code ERM, spring26. Some exclusions apply. Goodbye.