Questlove and Christian McBride

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, I'm Nora Jones. And today I'm playing along with Questlove and Christian McBride. Toofa. Hey, good people. What's up? How you doing? It's Questlove and you're about to listen to an episode of my good friend, Nora Jones on our podcast called Nora Jones is playing along. This particular episode is with myself and one of my closest buddies in high school, not named to reach Trotter named Christian McBride, who I basically call God, God of base. We're going to go back in reminisce about all the times we've been sent to the principal's office for playing James Brown and other details like that in our high school days, messing around before we became professionals. So we do covers of D'Angelo, pop staples of the staple singers, Chris Christofferson and a lot more. I hope you enjoy it. This is Nora Jones playing along with me and Christian McBride. All right. We actually recorded this episode in 2023, but we really wanted to replay it. It's a rerun. Yeah, but a really good one. Yes. And we wanted to show it some extra love. Both Christian and Questlove have been keeping very busy with other projects they've worked on since we put our episode out. So we wanted to mention some of them in 2025. Christian McBride released without further ado, volume one. He also dropped the single old song. He also dropped the single old folks with Samara Joy, and he announced his new ensemble called Ursa Major. And Questlove has also been equally busy. He directed Sly Lives, which premiered at Sundance in 2025. He co-directed the 50 Years of SNL Music special that aired in January of 2025. He's also directing the Big Earth Wind and Fire documentary coming out in 2026. He co-wrote the Rhythm of Time series with S.A. Cosby, which is a middle grade sci-fi book series. The first book came out in 2023, but two more are coming out in 2026. He's also involved in a posthumous DeAngelo album that was recently announced. We also covered a DeAngelo song in this episode called Betray My Heart, which was from the Black Messiah album that came out in 2014. And Questlove was a collaborator on that album. So that's kind of why we covered this song, plus it's just an amazing song. So I hope you enjoy hearing this episode. If you've never heard it and if you have, I think you're going to like it again. Treats me, oh so me I said my man, he don't love me He treats me, oh so me哎哎 He wears high drape pants and stripes are really yellow When he starts in a loving me he's so fine and mellow Love will make you drink and gamble and make you stay out all night long Love will make you drink and gamble and make you stay out all night long Love will make you do all the things that you know Love will make you drink and gamble and make you stay out all night long Love will make you drink and gamble and make you stay out all night long Love will make you drink and gamble and make you stay out all night long If you treat me right baby I'll stay home every day But if you so mean to me baby you know you're gonna drive me away Love is just like a faucet it turns off and it turns on Love is just like a faucet it turns off and it turns on Sometimes when you think it's all baby it is turned off and gone Go home with your bad soul No Joe bringing the grits and gravy Oh my god that's so fun It's too early for that kind of soul It's before noon That's what I'm saying Well if you wake up at seven You get your commissar all checked If you wake up at seven usually then it's more like three in the afternoon right Well I suppose Oh thanks for doing that with me that was fun You kidding I love that Billie Holiday song What a thrill Is that old Billie Holiday song or did she get it from somewhere else? That's hers That's hers That's hers God I love Billie Holiday Man I haven't sung that song in a really long time You could have fooled me That's from the old days you know The old days of playing and singing in restaurants and just playing Well see that Old jazz tunes Those gigs you know back in the day when you were doing the hotel lobby or restaurant gig Whatever it is I always tell musicians that's your share time That's how you build your skills It's semi-paid practice Totally what it is Totally what it is I mean like I used to play I can't remember the name of it But Benny Green and I used to have this kind of semi-regular gig Some Chinese food restaurant over on the east side And we would just share tunes Nobody was really listening Kind of sort of So we just call songs and I'll be learning the changes right there on the spot That's the best That's how you learn Yeah I had a gig like that in Dallas I wish it was Chinese food That sounds really good actually right now If I remember correctly Just like most jazz venues We couldn't pick off the regular menu They had a musicians menu I remember that I had a gig in midtown right around the corner here at that place, Sofia Did you ever work there? Yes I never worked there But a lot of people did Yeah Yeah actually I was surprised he hired me Because there were a lot of really great piano players that played there But I think he liked my singing And that guy was really nice actually I really liked him But they did not let us order very nicely Right You could go back to the kitchen And you could only have like a few things And you had a set meal time Right Exactly that's right And it was like a four and a half hour gig A long gig, long gig I remember when, well When I first moved to town Most clubs were three sets a night The Vanguard was 9, 11 and 1 Oh it was three sets back then? Oh yeah, yeah, six nights a week Radleys was 10, 12 and 2 That was hard because you had an hour break in between each show So all your momentum would be gone Yeah and if you're having a drink Or eating it just makes you tired Yeah, yeah But I'll tell you what, so much See this is why when people began to know who you were You were already, all your skills were totally strong already I'm serious, you weren't starting from scratch You'd been out there working, hustling I kind of feel like I could use a weekly gig again You know, like a weekly Not a bad idea Bar gig where the stakes are low and the fun is high You know, it's just working it out I'm sure you could find something I love doing that That's what's great about living in a city Right, right, right You can hide in a crowd Exactly Man, tell me about your bass This is Minnie Yeah Yes She's like you, little but mighty Did you bring her for me because I'm short? No, no, this has been my main bass since January of 96 Really? Oh man So you have others that you use sometimes But this is your main This is my girl Main squeeze I had a bass that was I used to think it was made by John Juzek But a guy in Czechoslovakia told me that John Juzek, that's a big name in the bass world Oh, I know because I dated a bass player I'm sorry For a long time And I will never forget the bass saga of him getting a Juzek bass Yes, well I found out that John Juzek was not a bass maker He was a bass distributor So it was all a lie So I went to Czechoslovakia to go track him down Really? I want to learn about the Juzek family line And I went to his bass shop in Prague And it was so funny because the guy said He didn't really say these exact words But I was reading in between the lines He was like, oh, you dumb Americans You think Juzek was the guy He was not the guy, he was the distributor I was like, oh, oh, okay So who was the guy? And then he gave me a whole bunch of check names That I couldn't spell You couldn't find them? Yeah, I couldn't find them So there was more than one guy basically There were several guys But they were cut in the same community of making basses And so I had a Juzek distributed bass From 1989 until British Airways destroyed it Oh, no! In December of 1995 Yeah, that's right I'll never forgive you for that But yeah, I had... My Juzek was crushed Fell out of the belly of the plane It was like a 30-foot drop On the ground But still that... Yeah, I mean, it had a really good case But I guess the... It was so far a drop It just... It didn't make it That's a bummer Yeah, and so David Gage, the guru I know him too I'm sure you know him too I love him He tried to fix it, he restored it He did everything he could But it just didn't get that old sound back Yeah And so while I was waiting for him to fix it He said, man, somebody just came in my shop with an old bass They want to get rid of it You need to come check this out And that was Minnie That's it, he called it Yep, this is an old German bass Made in... Estimated 1910 That's beautiful Yeah, so she speaks... She's... That's beautiful Yeah, so Minnie, she's been there That's great I remember seeing on your... Maybe your Instagram page once And you took a picture of a flight attendant Who was super sweet about your instrument I always try to shout out And I was gonna say, I think you do that Don't you? You shout out when they're really nice Yes, yeah Do you shout out when they suck about it? Or you do... No, I just go direct to... I just go direct to customer service You know, I've discovered the... My friend, Terri Angulli His wife, she writes letters all the time Complaints? Kind complaints Well-worded, thoughtful complaints And he used to tell me, he said, man You know, those complaint letters go a long way They do? Like they really read them? I don't know if they do now, but... Yeah So, fortunately I have not had Too many bad instances In quite some time Yeah, it can be tough trying to go On a plane with a weird shaped instrument They just don't understand sometimes It's hard for working musicians I see flight attendants giving trouble to Guitar players, they got a little soft Gig bag, that's not gonna fit in overhead Of course it will It's a tough gig on both ends, I think too Well, absolutely You gotta have empathy Exactly But sometimes people just stink about it You know what I feel bad about? I go to the airport And before I check in You try to read the friendliest face Yeah So I'll be standing in line And I'll see three ticket agents And I see one about to become open But they don't look like they're nice person I'll turn to the person behind me Like, no, no, no, you go ahead But you're next! No, go They're not having a good day I'm waiting for the nice person Oh my gosh Did you start out on upright bass? Nope, started out on the electric At what age? Because of my dad Nine, I was nine He played bass? He still does He still does He's one of the working bass players in Philly That's amazing My dad, his name is Lee Smith And he's working more now than he was when I was a kid Ain't that right Clyde? Hello kids Hey How are you? I got some good stories about you before you got here Oh boy, what did I do? I'm just kidding She's starting We didn't get to it yet Stirring the pot What's good, man? Nothing much Alright, I'm gonna get my dress on Play traditional for the first time in what, 30 years? Traditional How so? Hold my stick this way Ah, there you go That's great That's some technical thing that I don't know about You don't usually hold your stick Marchin' Man style Yeah, exactly All my idols play this way Something like what? Wow, I haven't done this since I was 12 Really? Yeah Whole episode The S.R.A.P Good girl I'm gonna get my dress on Play traditional for the first time in what, 30 years? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? Take another round Take another round Yeah What? What? What?哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎 No, we can't. So, Dora, what are you about to learn? You about to be in high school with us. This is a 30-year camaraderie where he and I are having a total inside conversation with each other based on like every reference. I know. I texted with you both for about 10 minutes. Are you going to answer that? Oh, this is so cool. This might be a three-part episode. I know, right? Alright, give it to me. How long before you commit to this in memory? Gotta get that in there. Right, right, right. Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Say what? Christ. Spurred steak. Grits and grapes. Crack and break. Thompson. Brian. Dr. Venoni's office right now. Can I ask a question of YouTube? Yeah. So when, alright, watch me take the podcast over. Take it over. So when, when you two play, have you two played long enough where you're literally in a linear state of mind where you know the song and you are playing you? Because I just realized, I only realized who I am when I'm not in Roots World. Because when I'm in Roots World, I'm more like traffic cop. Yeah. So I noticed that when I'm in jam session, like literally in that song, I referenced maybe 12 drummers from Bill Withers' drummer. Yeah, Gatson, James Gatson. Yeah, between Gatson and, you know, Clyde Jabbo. I tried to do Melvin, but I couldn't bring myself to it. It might have been too slow for Melvin. Right. Right. And so I'm, I'm literally going through. See, the thing is Melvin is, is reverse Clyde. So I do funky woman. So basically James and I, Chris and I, our connection, of course, is, is James Brown. And so with James's, I would say top three drummers, Clyde Stubblefield has the, the probably be best ghost note left hand ever. So a lot of his like, slowed down a little bit. So like he plays, he plays a snare like, like old black church people play the tambourine with the little, like, of course the, the, the pace is this, but he'll add the, you know, you know what I mean? And Idris Mohammed is also in under this umbrella or his left hand and the ghost note. Right. And also I would say Steve Faroon, formerly of the Heartbreakers and of course the average white band who's probably a more nuanced Bernard Purdy. Like Bernard Purdy's trademark is of course, you know what I mean? So Steve Faroon takes Clyde Stubblefield's left hand and takes Bernard Purdy's right hand, but also Idris Mohammed does that a lot. But with James Brown's other drummer, Clyde, Jabbo, John Jabbo Starks, he's a more, he's more of a foot guy. So I say John Jabbo starts like he's more about the, the pulse. So I'll say that even though we credit Clyde Stubblefield with being like James Brown's funkiest drummer, Clyde Stubblefield is more like boutique shopping, whereas Jabbo's more like common everyday meat and potatoes drumming. You know what I mean? He's more of a swing. So that's, and he's also heavy on the one. That's, that's Jabbo all day. So his emphasis is more on the foot. Now the thing is Melvin Parker. He don't play one. Right. Melvin Parker never hits on the one. So he hits everything but the one. So he's both like, right. Yeah. So that one back, that's missing. That's his info. So he's more of a single-played drummer. You know what I mean? So my question to you is when you're not playing your own material, are you, do you morph into another musician or like I find out I'm more of a shapeshifter than I am. Like I don't think I've identified, I've identified myself as a shapeshifter more than like, oh that's a mirror plane. But you know when I'm playing. I think that's interesting because I feel like I know when it's you. Well, also. I may my presence known, but also it's also like my style of drumming is more like, like right now in the culinary world, there's a big giant worry that with words like kale and plant base that we're going to lose. I mean, you know, like this 2020 is the whole era of the fight between, you know, traditionalists, what it used to be. And this is how I was raised versus disruptors who were like, no, this is the new this is how it's going to be. And there's, you know, I guess my stake in that claim is more about the musicianship. So, you know, I never wanted to be what they would call like a, you know, like a gospel drummer, gospel chops. So always imagine that I'm the drummer that works at a steel mill in Ohio or Milwaukee or whatever. You know, his wife lets him play with the guys at the local bar, but he's like real sloppy. Yeah. You know, like, I could. I could perfect it. But for me, oh, you have. Yeah. I mean, see, the problem is when I'm doing it in terms of hip hop, I also not only have to be the sample, but I have to also be the drum programming. So that's that's my my big risk with this next record because I'm actually not going to play like a computer and I'm going to play. I'm trying to play like the sloppiest drunk four year old. Like how I used to play when I was a kid without the mind is that but do you like for you? Do you guys shape shift as well? Or do you are you just too preoccupied with the melody? Whatever, because when I'm drumming, it's so secondhand, like it's like the back of the head where if I think about drumming, then I'm fucking up. So I'm thinking about like cereal. Yeah. And wait, that'll leave my wallet to like I'm thinking of anything else but drumming. Really? Yeah, because when you start thinking about it, that's where. Yeah. I remember once and one of my dad's gigs when I was 11, we were doing we were doing on the wings of love. And I was I was 12. Did you know Steve Roan's drumming on it? Yeah, yeah. I did not know that. So it's like one in the morning. I'm 12 years old. We're in a nightclub and this is like out and some some club in like Darby like in the outskirts and we're playing, you know, my dad's like, all right, you know, you get on drums. The bar is empty. It's like the last set. So he let me sit in and I did good. And then we got to all in the wings of love and we got through the first verse. And there's there's there's like, you know, the drunk guy most have it on the Simpsons. Yes. He's looking at me. He's the only one that's like, wait a minute, what's what's a 12 year old kid doing in this nightclub at at two in the morning on a school night. But he's real drunk and he's like, hey man, that drum is really good. And then I messed up that. So when I think about it, that's when it's problematic. But is it is it the same for you at all? Like, I think thinking about it is always a problem. Feeling it is better. But I'm always trying to be myself because also as a singer, it's more obvious when you're copying other people you love, you know. So I just try to embody the lyrics in my own way, usually. And we were talking earlier about that the steady gig, all those steady gigs you played and, you know, hotel lobbies and things like that and restaurants and bars. That's it. That's where we all got our training. You know, did you ever pay me like I feel like you came out the womb. Yeah, I know revisionist history. I mean, I've always been too pragmatic because like as a bass player, my thing was do whatever you have to do to keep the gig. I was less worried about, you know, individualism and trying to find, you know, what I'm just don't get fired. Yeah. That was always my number one thing. Wait, you plan fight or flight? Well, I mean, there's two ways to live. You're going to fight or flight or you're going to live like, hey, what can I do to, you know, I never, I never thought that you would ever have that thought like I don't want to get fired. Absolutely. Have you ever got a fire Christmas? I got them close. What? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't, you remember this well. You remember the no amp days, the make bass great again days when all of these young cats were coming on the scene not wanting to play with an amplifier. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, we were trying to muscle up bleeding fingers. Yeah, exactly. And what era was this? Oh, when I first moved to New York, 89, 90, 91. Well, an amp's just an extra thing to carry. What's that? An amp's an extra thing to carry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was all these cats like, man, you know, real bass players don't use an amp. You got to muscle up, raise your strings and, you know, have the microphone way out there to project. Right. So that was, that was courtesy of a particular sect. Right. But I got to buy my suits. Are they from New Orleans? Ah, see, see, see, see, see. I wasn't the one, I am trying to implicate nobody. I'm wondering who you're talking about. No names, no names. No names, no names. But I got on Bobby Watson's gig and he was like, say, where's your amp? You know, I don't use no amp. I got a big sound. He's like, I'm sure you do. But I want an amp. Like, no man, you know, amp, man, that's some punk shit, man. You know, he's like, oh, it is, huh? Say, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. Ah. I'm getting an amp. And actually it was, it was Jeff Tane Watts that saved my gig with Bobby Watson. Cause I was playing the Vanguard with Bobby and Bobby was pissed. He was like, man, get an amp. You know, I was like, no. I was being a petulant 18-year-old, you know. You know, and Tane came down there one night. And this is when I learned, like, you know, it's cool. So Tane was kind of part of that whole crew. He had one foot in there and kind of one foot with us. That's right, that's right. So I said, hey, man, can you believe what he wants me to do? He wants me to get an app. And so Tane was like, well, get one. I was like, for real? He's like, man, just because you have an app, though me, you've got to crank it, just get an app. You know, I was like, for real? It's cool? You ain't going to be mad at me? There's something along those lines, right? You thought you were going to lose your card? That sect was really powerful. Your cool card? In the early 90s. And Tane was like, man, you better get an app and keep your kick. So wait a minute. Now I can see if it's Village Vanguard. But would that sect say the same for, oh, I don't know, Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center? Yes. No amp? Under no circumstances. Are you serious? Yes. Wait, was there a mic on the thing? Yeah, it was a mic. Oh, oh, oh, oh. The theory was. I thought, here, I was thinking no amplification at all in a club. But you mean there's a microphone to capture. Yes, there was a microphone. So the theory was. The theory is the pickup doesn't sound good. The theory was the natural sound of the acoustic bass was destroyed in the 70s and early 80s. Now, I can't argue that. You agree? Two, and I think Ron Carter was probably one of the only ones that made it out of that whole era, like, unscathed. Like, even though he was using an amp and used a DI, he still sounded nice and fat and good. But a lot of other people had that real. That real T here, amplifying day sound. And he was like. You were revealing so much to me right now. Yeah. But Ron was the only one that everybody was like, OK, that's cool. What became its own thing, kind of, right? Exactly. And then so in the late 80s, when the sect was getting big. Right. The sect. It was kind of like. It's like the firm we can't mention the name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So then it was like, well, everybody raised their strings, unplugged the amps. We're going to our natural to return the bass to its original glory. And then Ray Brown, Ron Carter, you know, Mill Hinton, all the great bass legends, they come here and play. We all be like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That takes a toll on your hands. And they'd be like, what are you doing? It's just aggressive. Yeah. There's a, I'm a calling my, because that's my man. There's a YouTube clip. I think it was when Harry County, Jr. was on some morning show. And my brother, Ben Wolf, was playing bass from a long camera angle. You can see his strings are about that high. Like two inches off the finger. Maybe three. And he's playing like. I'm very sure he had tendonitis. Oh my God. At some point. Yeah, that can't be good for you. Gut strings, you know, super high action. And at some point I was just like, you know, this is, this is not right. It doesn't sound good. You know, so Ray Brown changed all of that. So this, all right. So you're answering a question for me. Because at, in my studio set of a 30 rot, what I'm trying to do is get acquainted with all of our plugins. Like I'd spend my lunchtime just like, OK, let me figure out a new sound or whatever. So, you know, when you get a Pro Tools system, you know, there's over like 700 plugins or 7000 plugins. Right. And of course, there's different combinations of that stuff. So, you know, I'm trying to figure out a new sound. And I keep, I kept seeing this. There's a plugin called Fat Wood, right? Which caught my attention because I need. Right. I thought it changed around. I said Fat Wood. That's right. Let me check this out. I didn't know about that. Right. And I got to it. And my engineer, Steve, Steve Mandel, was like explaining to me how in the jazz world, like the woods, the natural wood sound, there's an argument over issue. We. And he said, you know how like your DI versus microphone thing or whatever and how I don't like the microphone to the amp more than I like a DI sound. But I needed for specific reasons. So now I get that you, your challenge was natural sound versus. Yeah. And to find a happy medium. And I think I mean, like right now I'm not using any DI. It's just all microphone. Well, I can't imagine using a DI in the studio on an acoustic bass. I can either. But I, it depends on, it depends on the music. What kind of music you're doing. Like when we did the Philadelphia experiment, that was, I think that was mostly DI, not very much microphone. But for that music, it was perfect. It made sense. Yeah. Yeah. See, I got a story about her. No. You do? Yes. Oh. You like, when you said no, I was like, wait, did you sign an NDA for it? I know, right, right, right, right. It was the first time I heard of you when you played at McCore. Really? Yep. Oh, that was forever ago. It was like 2000. 2000, yeah. And my manager at the time was like, hey, we're going to go see this girl, Nora Jones, you should come. You know, I think all of the people from Ted Kirlman's office came. All the taste makers. They all came, right? Ted Kirlman. Yeah, like this girl's going to be huge. She's going to be huge. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And I remember it was packed and I was in the black of the club. Say that on purpose. Four years later. Well, exactly. And and then you had your record come out yet? I can't remember. No, but I had a long lead up to it. Right. So the labor was I had a weekly gig there. It was a Jewish community center. Yes. And it was singles night on Wednesdays. And I had a gig every Wednesday on singles night and it started out with nobody. You had a regular gig there. I had a regular gig there for a year. And it was singles night and there weren't a ton of people there for me. It was just singles. And then it builds up slowly and slowly. And then right right before my record came out, I think we had our last weekly or something and it was like bananas. Man. And then and then you shout out like a cannon, man. And I was just like, that's her. You came to McCourt. Did you say hi? No, it's too much too much traffic in there. Yeah, I was going to say the last the last stages of your buzz before your debut came out. I distinctly remember in a 48 hour period, I can claim that I saw you. Pre you and pre Gaga you pre you and pre Gaga. Stephanie at sort of like piano bar gigs in New York area within like a 70 one night. I think I saw her on a Thursday night and I saw you on a Sunday night. Wow. And yeah, it's that's probably yeah, the only time where I saw someone in there. They're sort of like incubate the level before. You know, you know, John Batista was my student at the Aspen summer program. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And in 2001, look at him now. I'm telling you, right? So when I see him now, I'm just like, you know, you ain't famous to me. Yeah. That's crazy. But no, he and Diana Crawl as well. You know, we kind of came up. She was together at the no, no, no, no. No, but you were young together. But yeah, we can. Yeah, like when she made her first album, her first album for G.R.P. It was 94. We recorded that. I mean, you know, she was brand new, brand new. OK, you know, she was she was doing like the the bar and hotel circuit. Yeah, you know, and Tommy LaPuma heard her and the rest is history. And you played on that early stuff with her or later? I played on her. I think I've played on almost all of her records, except her second and maybe one other in between there. OK. Yeah. So, yeah, you. So you were produced by Tommy LaPuma. That that was my that was like my third dad. Oh, OK. On this on this album, were you acoustic or electric? All acoustic. Damn, always. Always. Ever done anything electric with him? Big time. Yeah. It's like for me, if there's ever producer that has such a similar. My part got replaced. I was. By who? How did you know? Marcus Miller. OK. So it was cool. I was like, why don't you just get Marcus? You got to break my heart when the record comes out. I was like, damn, wait, but it was cool later on. Wait, what is that like when you find out that you heart breaking? Is that a common thing before you know? I don't think it is now. I don't think that happens much anymore. I can't be sure, but I don't think that happens much. Well, Kenny Kirkland's first and only solo album. Delphi or Marsalis produced it. And I remember he called me in and he said, hey, man, we got this track. We got like four bass parts on there. We got Sean at Moffitt. We got Robert Hurst, I think maybe, you know, what original feel. But it was just Hurst and and Charnette is like, put your bass part down because we can't figure out which one we like. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure on one of those songs on Kenny Kirkland's record, there's like three bass players on one song. One song they just used them all. Yeah, they just kind of, you know, I got four bars. I've actually got four bars. You know, I've almost done that. I don't think I've ever done that. Really? No. Well, I saw both. I saw you play when I was in college down in Texas. I saw the roots. Really? Yeah. Wow, I thought. Heck, yeah. I thought the first time we saw each other was when you were sitting in the front row of, wait, you're from Denton, Texas. Well, I'm from Dallas, but I went to college in Denton. Yeah. OK. I'm only learning about that. I'm doing the slide doc right now. And I didn't know that he was born in Denton, Texas. I actually didn't know that either. No, I didn't know that. He's born in the family. There's there's a really crazy lost concert that we just found, which is supposed to be like. This is this is in 72. So I'll say this maybe like three months before Larry quit. And the first OK. So of course, in in prime self saboteur mode, you know, slide, use time as a means to protest. Always famous for being late to shows and whatnot. So, you know, this is like his homecoming show. You know, he went away for two years after his triumphant woodstock thing. And, you know, Grayson's album was was he was literally like the biggest star in the world. And so, you know, they planted this homecoming thing in Denton, Texas. And all you when when the they they recorded live and, you know, wanted to preserve it on tape. And so all of a sudden you hear it just starts with booze. So obviously, right. He was right. Right. Right. So he I believe one of the band members told me that they were waiting for about sort of north of 90 minutes, so maybe like 100 minutes. And but he's also he keeps getting away with it because he's also a very charismatic, charming guy. And literally when he walks on stage, he you know, he does this and, you know, and he does the look, guys, I'm sorry. But look, I can either solve the problem and start playing now or you guys can just continue. Boom, what would you like to do? Like he's really very logical. Right. And the second they hit, it was like nothing they forgot. Yeah, sure. Everything. Yeah. And so that's exciting. Didn't Texas, man. I can't wait to see that. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a lot that I'm learning right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you saw they came to UNT. No, you guys were playing in Dallas. We went down to Dallas to see you. Was it in that bowling alley? No, it wasn't. There's there's like a in Dallas, there was something bowl. And it was like a bowling alley, pool hall and kind of a House of Bluesy. But as a theater, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, it wasn't there. It was a place where there was a balcony surrounding the stage. I can't remember where it was. Oh, OK. And then I tried to go see you play with Josh Redmond and Brian Blade at Caravan of Dreams. But I was told later by Chris Thomas that it was actually him. I was out of the van by the end. You were you weren't there. Right. And I think my memory got, you know, sideways. But Chris was like, that was me. I was like, yes, it was. Christian, Chris. No, I knew who you were. No, no, no. But I don't think I got to see you till later. Like maybe after I moved to New York. Yeah, I didn't. I don't don't don't play in Texas much. Oh, yeah. Is that true? Yeah. Where's your like, how is the South? Go to Texas is probably Houston, Houston or Austin. No Dallas for you, huh? Not really. So where's your jazz? Where's your like every day? I'm American and you're American. It kind of does. It kind of all the Amtrak. So Boston between Boston and DC, right? Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto, Detroit, Chicago. Indianapolis has gotten a little better. St. Louis. Not much in the South, man. Not not a whole lot. That's interesting because the president was a big old jazz school. So exactly. We have people come through the college a lot. Right. Yeah, I've done like masterclasses. Yeah. Never again. So the place where it was and of course, LA, of course, you know, Seattle, all the way down to San Diego, Phoenix, Denver. Yeah, I think the only place there was a jazz club in Dallas called Sambuca, but it was very small. And then there was a chain. Yeah, I was a chain. But then there was a caravan of dreams in Fort Worth, which is like the club. That was the one. That was the only real place that people came of. Yeah. So you're trying to tell me the place where it was invented. It's almost like most. Because it's so. It's so. Insolent going through the same thing. Yeah. I mean, New Orleans is so insolent. They're like, we only know northerners come down here. We got a. Oh, yeah. There's not a lot of out of town. Right. Yeah. And then then you got the festivals in Europe. Yes. And which are you tired of your. All right. So for me, like, OK, for you is most of your summers and for both of you when you're touring. Are most of your summers outside of the United States? Like, have you been in the United States for a good two month stretch without. Going to Europe. Yeah. I I mean, I don't tour as much as I used to, but I did last summer just states. And this summer I'm just doing a month in Europe. And I was excited to do some of the same places I've done a lot. And then I realized, oh, this is just what there is for me. It's like all the same festivals, a lot of the same places, which I do love. But it's like, yeah, it gets a little like, wait, did I just go back in time? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the summer itinerary tends to look the same. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I've seen a July 17th in the United States since we graduate. Well, I didn't see it then. So yeah, probably 1988. So you're always in Europe every summer. Pretty much. Maybe I'll see you this summer. Are you going to be there this summer? Not for long. I'm actually this is I'm only doing two gigs in Europe in July. I actually get to stay home. I'm so happy to work or stay home and hang. Oh, I'm going to stay home and hang. Yeah. I'm going to watch Law and Order my ass off. I'll be marathoning like crazy. Oh, man. Wow. This is this year. We'll mark the first year that we're finally doing our first round of arena tours. Really? Because the thing is, is that, you know, we've played big numbers in New York City. Yeah. And MSG really isn't that big. No, isn't it like nine or ten thousand? It's like maybe 12, 13. But you think of it as like 30. And yeah, you would think like 40 or something, whatever. And we just never. You know, it's always like, OK, when do we when do we play our card to see if we can actually do arenas or not? So wow. But after the the thing that we did at the Grammys this year, where we gathered everyone in the history of hip hop to do like this mega 12 minute thing. It was great. Yeah, it was fun to watch. It was probably a nightmare to put together. You look, dude. I have a separate podcast on in the gigs. What we can talk about it. Wait, I've come close to suicide numerous times. Dog musical director gigs. Oh, yeah. Where you're where you run in the show and try and organize it all. I'll Tarantino the story and basically say that when I landed in New York. My tooth fell out. So there's there's this there's this rock and roll Dennis that Lenny Kravitz put the whole community on to in which this guy does 24 hour work. Like he even comes to your house. That's a little weird. If you can. Yeah. Like you leave him keys, whatever you take these pills, you're asleep. You wake up in the morning and he already operated. What? Wait, wait, back up. Back up. Yeah. Are you kidding me? I don't do that. I'm not that rich. But yes, you can actually this guy, he's the rock and roll Dennis. He goes on tour. He could if you have a full. You know, I've got time. We got to be home. He'll hook you up. Come to the crib. And he's in New York. He's in New York. He's in New York. So he's on 24 hour call. And when I landed the amount of stress that seven weeks was because it's somewhere in between, like on standby, there was a life coach because you a life coach. So we also experienced this in the rock and roll. So in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it's sort of the same thing where you have to reunite people that haven't played with each other for a long time. Oh, and there's a lot of history there. Yeah. A lot of bad history. A lot of was there a therapist? Yeah. That's why I had to have this person there, like literally there to talk. So there was there was two situations where, you know, you go back in 2007, you took three thousand dollars out of my bag and whatever like that. Wow. So there was that. But then there was mostly like, well, how many bars is that a dog getting? And, you know, how much explosions is that a dog getting? Oh, gotcha. I used to think that wasn't real. Dude, it was like, that's petty. If you ever seen, I don't know if you watch 30 Rock, but if you ever watch the the Source Awards episode of 30 Rock, which alone is a setup and a joke and a punch line at the same time. Right. Right. It literally it was it. It almost went Murphy's law. And then at the last minute, it was the it was the biggest Hail Mary. With seconds on the clock left, tossed the ball up and just pray someone on the other end catches it. And they caught it. I'll put it this way. The last act, little Uzi Bert, I didn't even know he was on stage. And that's only because of the way that the show was built. I couldn't see what was happening around the corner. You were spread out. But you do you remember how, like, after Prince did Purple Rain and he stormed off stage like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like I've ruined everything. I fucked up. That's what I did. Like I was having a panic attack. I was about to cry. Wow. And I was stormed off stage and I was like, oh, man, I've ruined it. I've ruined it. And then my band's like congratulating each other. I'm like, what are y'all doing? He's like, you see what? I said, wait, he was there. Yeah, he came up last minute and literally they had to show me on Twitter. What had happened? You didn't even know. And they were like, how did you not know? And you literally on stage. But I swear to God, like, can see it right after after a point, I just blanked out because I'd started going in my head. Like I fucked this up. Everyone's going to cancel me. I'll be trending on Twitter. He messed up the hip hop 30 thing and literally. My lack, because there was even acts that dropped out 10 minutes before because they lost. Oh, one one our headliner. I thought he might win a particular award. And, you know, when it went to someone else, man, fuck the Grammys. I'm out. I'm like, oh, yeah. And it was every type of stress. And that's how my tooth fell out. So just in terms of like, MD and man, it's hard. You can't be no one's friend. Sam, Sam Moore got got mad at me one time. Sam Moore. Yeah. Sam and Dave. Yeah. Oh, he's world famous for that. What happened? So we were at the White House and it was the big Ray Charles tribute. And I'm kind of wearing what I have on exactly right now. Which is like a T shirt. Yeah, I got to have a black T shirt on and a black sport jacket. So I got the big band and a lot of, you know, Demi Lovato was there, Usher, Yolanda Adams, all these people. So I wasn't paying attention. I had a James Brown T-shirt on. Oh, no. Oh, no. But my jacket was, you know, kind of closed like this. And so Sam Moore comes in and Mr. Moore, you know, good morning. It's great to see you. I'm so honored to work with you. He's like, who is that? He looks in my shirt as soon as he saw it. Oh, yeah. It was too late to change my clothes. He's like, James Brown. What's their history? Why I got to look at James Brown? I was like, Mr. Moore, I can I can I can go change my shirt. No, no, no, it's too late now. Why you got a James Brown shirt on? It's like, it's the only clean one I have. Yeah, I've been on the road for the last five and get to do laundry, you know, he's like. And for the next 15 minutes, he wouldn't he wouldn't sing the song. He was just, I can't believe you were in a James Brown shirt. You couldn't get over it. Could not. Was he a victim of one of the car games? Or so later on I texted Alan. Oh, tell me the story. I said, Alan, tell me the story. What's the deal? And so Alan, Alan Leeds, James Brown. I friend Alan Leeds. Yes. Thanks. And so he's like, there was there was no direct story that he knew of. It was just sort of like an overall. He's like, man, no, none of James Brown's peers from the sixties liked him. There's either a woman general or a car game. Right, right, right. The end where I got to cut you. I felt so bad. I was like, man, I should run my room real quick. Seriously, I was like, let's take a 45 minute break. I'm going to go back to the hotel and change my shirt. I did not. But. The damage was done. Oh, my. He finally got over it the day of the gig. I remember once we did. You ever play River Deep Mountain High? Sure. And that turnaround is one of the hardest things. Right. So that turnaround is hard as hell. Yes, it is. Yeah. And we used to do this annual gig out in the Hamptons, where the former owner of the Apollo Theater does one of those fancy, shmanty, like 10,000, 20,000 and play thing. And, you know, like an occasional Palmer carton shows up or whatever. You know, it's like a fun time. And like the roots have been in the house band for this thing for like, like maybe the last 10 years. And but the thing is, is also I think one of the downfalls of being on the Tonight Show is a lot of people just believe in the smoke of mirrors of it all of like, oh, the roots can do anything. Just don't make it do it. They can do it. And so, you know, they'll come in the door. They'll come in the gate, like, OK, you're going to play these three songs with McCartney and three songs with Sting and these three songs. So, you know, we already got like 18 songs. But then always the last minute, it's like, Bon Jovi wants to do that. Do you know it? Meanwhile, you're playing the song and I got to put on my computer and learn living on a prayer that way. Like, and so Darling Love wanted to do River Deep Mountain High. And this is all I know. I messed up. OK, so I messed up that turnaround, right? But at least I was smart enough to just 16 it. I didn't know the count. So I just did it. And I was just. I cheated it that way. Yeah, man. When I tell you. Oh, boy, we didn't even meet yet. But because she wasn't accustomed to doing it like the way she normally does it. All I remember was. I took responsibility. I was like, my bad, whatever. She turned around and said. I'm going to fucking kill you. Oh, boy. Yeah, I will say that we've all been there dealing with your heroes or your peers in the MD position is the fastest way. You just got it. You just got bullseye on your chest. Make enemies. They're going to get you. Not somebody's going to get you. OK, without naming a name has an idol ever women. Do you know? Wait, no, no, no, no. Has an idol ever been mean? Disappointed you. No. Wow. You look to charm life. I'm serious. One time they kind of annoyed me, but I'm not going to name a name. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I was like, oh, they're kind of annoying, but like still love them. I'm not even going to say if it's a man or woman. Well, you already know my answer. Yeah, you've had some disappointment. I I strangely haven't. I was actually surprised I've never had a disappointment. But wait, was that instance your last interaction with that person? No, it wasn't. OK, it was just like, OK, I'm not going to get too close there, maybe. But OK. Yeah, I feel bad. Well, no, I'm talking about James Brown. No, it was fine. OK, you're naming names. You ended on a very high note, so it was good. But wait, wait, wait, wait, go back. Who who were you just talking about? James Brown. That was tricky and it ended on a high note. Goodness. Yeah. Yeah, I was that was below tricky. Really? I'm almost certain that Chris has undersold his love for James Brown. I think I get it. No, but it's it's beyond. Yeah. You know, it's beyond me. Any any time a person comes to me and like, hey, you know, this is James Brown for I don't know. It's almost like I got to ask my dad first. I'm like, did you ask Christopher Bride first? Like, yeah, it goes beyond the DNA of James is, you know, heavy and Chris. So well, you know, so that that's a perfect segue into how we met in high school, because, you know, we both grew up in Philly. We went to Creative and Performing Arts, which is the same high school where the late great. It still feels weird saying the late. You just said that. Yeah, the late great Joe D. Francesco, Rose Winkle, Boys to Men, Amel Arou. Wait, I didn't know Kurt went there, too. Yeah. Oh, did he? Yep. Yep. Kurt was like. He like it was like a game. And him and Joey were the Crips and Kirk was the Bloods. And I was on whatever side was winning at the time. So you'd bounce back and forth. Well, this is my first time that I've been in that situation where like I'm with peers, my age playing. And so they're like traditional jazz. So in order for me to get their respect, I better speak their language. But then he's like trying to untie me. Everything they're teaching me by like this Captain B part. And this is Frank Zappa. That's amazing. So and so. But but the the thing where I felt really alone was I was also hardcore and R&B and funk. So I mean, Joey could play it, but he that he didn't know a lot of that was his thing, exactly. You know, and Kurt didn't, you know. So like I was by myself when it came to, you know, Motown and Stax and James Brown Earth, When the Fire, all that. So when he comes to school and. Yeah, I remember I'm on Rose and Winkle's guitar. I thought you were playing this, but not this bass, but you were playing the bass. I was in the baseline. You was messing around. You I came in, I came in the music room and there's this new this new dude in the music program. And he's kind of like. And I. I just kind of stood there like. Oh, really? We got a James Brown head in school. Nice. Yeah. And I mean, instant bond, instant bond. And my mother was so happy because she was like, thank God, you got somebody who can talk to funk, you know, you got somebody you can hang with now. Talk about fun. Instead of his old people. Exactly. Are you were you in a younger grade? Is that why you came along later? Well, you transferred. I was transferred in. Like my for the first eight years around life, I went to the private version of that school performing at school. And then there was a period where. I don't know if you know this this educator named Marva Collins. OK, I'll tell you what, when you listen to songs in the key of life by Stevie Wonder, when you listen to the last two minutes of Black Man, where the teacher who's the 70 70 like the little kids are yelling back at him. Just listen to the last two minutes of Black Man. That's the Marva Collins School in Chicago. And she was a woman who. Cabrini Green projects, the good time projects like these were like, you know, the worst kids with worst GPA on earth. And she just decided one day I'm going to turn you all into mental level Ivy League students. And so one by one, everyone who's ever been in her class wound up going to doctors, nurses, like that. Sort of thing. And so that's like every 70s parent was like, so I went to a lot of schools that were like private schools that were guaranteed that your kid was going to be in Harvard or whatever. Like at the end of their their school tenure. And then the last two years. I happened to see on on Channel 10 on on CBS, I saw this this 14 year old kid write dreams. Don't don't. Don't even. Yo, do you have that on tape? No, but it's on YouTube. I hate you right now. Yes, dreams is sort of like it's a made for TV movie about about our school. This is before I went there. But I saw Joey playing on like this this clip. And I was this mind blown that a 13, 14 year old could play like an adult because I only grew up. You know, my dad was an oldies doop singer. So I only hung with old musicians, which is why I play the way I play now, because yeah, literally, it was like me at five and a bunch of 30 year olds. And I never interacted with kids my own age, whatever. So that's, you know, I just told my mom, like, I want to play with kids my own age. Like I grew up thinking like, oh, damn, I'm the only kid that knows how to play like this. And I came in for the rudest awakening. That is kind of interesting. Dude, the first day of school, Miles Davis is at school, like giving him where he wasn't first two weeks of school. Yeah, something like there used to be a morning talk show in Philly hosted by a guy named Bill Boggs. It's called Time Out. And they had a right and they had Miles Davis as a guest. And so I found this out later that they felt that I saw an interview with Bill Boggs. It was interesting. He said he remembers that episode well because the producers didn't think Miles Davis's name was big enough to carry an hour of an interview. Can you imagine the absurdity of that? I can't imagine that. It was you remember Maurice Hines was also a guest that day. So that was the reason they say, well, you know, we need a second. We need another name. We need another name. Get his brother, Maurice. Miles can't do it by himself, you know, and also to kind of make it cutesy. They decided they would get some kids to play for Miles. Man. And so and then Miles look at Norris face right now. Well, that's that's what everybody said, right? And so so they had me, Joey, Stacey Dozier playing drums. She played drums in a high school band before Amir got there. And they invited four young trumpet players from the Philly school system to play and Miles would, you know, give them advice on the live television. Oh, my God. A very foolish decision. Is this on YouTube? Yes. Yeah. And I can't watch it. Yeah. It's like watching Showtime of the Apollo. That sounds like a bad idea. Really ridiculous idea. And you know, they didn't know Miles apparently not. They first of all, they needed the second, second, seventh, second delay because Miles dropped a few F bombs on this morning television morning. Yeah, you know, all the parents and you know, the moms sitting on the. You know, and Bill Box asked Miles, he said, you know, Miles, you know, you you went into seclusion for a few years. You know, what was it that gave you the inspiration to come back? Seriously? And Miles, Miles, he waited for a second. He said. One day, Dizzy Gillespie came over and he said, man, what the fuck are you doing? On morning. And God bless Bill Box. He's just sitting there like, Mm hmm. Trying to just act like it's totally. Right. Yeah. Is it get up off your ass? So like, there was another time Miles was trying to remember somebody's name is a. Yeah, it was me and. Oh, shit, I forgot. Damn, Miles, this is my TV, dude. Yeah, this is my second week of school. OK, in a in a public school. Discovering that people born the same year as me can play like me and better than me. So the bubble I was in was instantly like bursted and I had so much catching up to do, man. Just I kept begging him to join the All City Jazz Band. I got him to come with me a couple of times. No, I was like, dude, come on. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Take the breath. Sit down to play. And so you play and like, come on, bro, you got this. Fros. And then a little John Roberts was up there, too. And he was literally a little John Roberts. Like, I looked at him like a little running because he was younger than us. He was like an eighth grade. Right. Eighth or ninth. But he looked like he was in seventh grade. Yeah, yeah, he was two years behind us, I think. Yeah. But yeah, we we we did have some good drummers. I mean, you know, who's got more pocket than him? I know, but it wasn't. But you guys played together in an ensemble in school. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you were more in the jazz zone. Yeah. And you didn't go deep into the jazz zone. See, the thing was, I tried to try to get him. So my story is really. It was like. Come on. But the thing is, is that I I. The the part I always leave out the story was like, my dad was like a Joe Jackson backstage mom. Really? Oh, the worst. So he wanted me. My dad was like that dog. He was like, you got two options, three options. Curtis, Juilliard. Or a job, Curtis, Juilliard or a job. And I to this day, people don't believe me when I tell them my dad didn't find out about the roots until our second album. That's what I was because he was too much pressure. The amount of sneaking I had to do. Your mom knew though, right? Yes, she knew. Yeah. But she had your back. The amount of sneaking I had to do was like, I can't let these guys know. I listen to hip hop that way and can't let Kurt Rosenwinkel know that, yes, you're trying to undo. Because the thing was, is Kirk was like, jazz needs to go forward. And the first time that Kirk even planned to see to me that this particular God figure in jazz might be a step backwards and not forward was he planned that seed of me. So he's like, yo, man, all the bebop stuff from before. That's dead, man. That's dead. We got to move and he's trying to like tell me about like, you know, in bass and, you know, like all these like crazy jazz ensembles and everything that I'm like a lot of Armand Garde, whatever. So I'm doing my Armand Garde stuff with Rosenwinkel. But when these guys are around, I'm like, OK, all right. So Larry Young's Unity record study that up and down. That sounds like a lot of conflict. It was. I was on whatever side was winning. But then. But then because of public enemy finally making sense of my dad's boring record collection. You know, I have someone upstairs that I'm like trying to build a future with. And, you know, it's also in the name of impressing a girl. Always. That was a fail. But I got the career. Oh. Hey. Whatever. Whatever. But it is. What is. What is. Hey, man. So yeah. And pretty much I decided so you went to Juilliard. Yes. And I was like, all right, well, for long, Chris, right. You did the same. You did the mouse thing, right? Right. So I was like, I'm going to do the same. So I did my I did my new school audition, my Curtis audition and my Juilliard audition one particular weekend to Rique Wentwin. And coming back on the train. This is like this is like either somewhere in between a grape poupon commercial or the last scene in Dumber Dumber, the world's most beautiful girl walks up in slow motion and says, aren't you now? Side note, side note. Yes. I was the drummer. Boys and men had let me drum in their Motown Filly video. Oh, right. Oh, that's right. So she got it mixed. She says, aren't you the drummer in the Spike Lee Levi's commercial? So like busking just started to become a thing in America where, you know, there was a kid that was playing bucket drums and Spike Lee to put him in a commercial, whatever. He had similar hair to mine. He had like twist and break. And so she came out. It was like great coupon. He's like, aren't you that drummer in the Spike Lee Levi's commercial? And my dumb ass was like, no, that's not me. And she was like, oh, oh, right. OK. And she walks away and Tariq's like, why didn't you tell? I was like, because it wasn't me. Don't you knew she was talking about you knew she was talking about Motown Filly like Tariq would use me as his magnet to get like where the shirt. You got the shirt on. Now go back and put your outfit on. Like I had to wear that outfit every weekend. Right. So he spends the night at the crib and we're watching Soul Train and commercial comes on and it's the Spike Lee Levi's commercial. And it was the it was the are you Rika boom? We looked at the commercial. We thought about that girl that I could have got a number, but didn't. And we looked at each other like, yo, why don't we do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And cut to running in the kitchen and sneaking the, you know, chitlin bucket out or whatever. You know, you know that red bucket. The red chitlin bucket. The red chitlin bucket. Every household has one. Man, I remember never forget the first time I smelled chitlins. My grandmother was cooking chitlins. I was coming. I smelled them two blocks away. I was coming down Irving Street and I was like, I really pray to God that's not coming from my house. It was a line of people. Don't I'm like, oh, no. There is no black household. It doesn't. Even if you don't eat chitlins, you still have that red bucket that you use for other stuff. Along with the government corn flakes and the cheese and the milk. Son, all that. All right. The government milk. Yes. I still stand through it today. And the corn flakes were killing. Yes. Yes. I can't believe we're talking about this. And that sharp cheese. Oh, come on, man. Dude, I would have to wake up. I when my parents were on tour. Yeah, I would have to wake up. Staying at my grandma's house. Wait, your mom toured too? Yeah, both my mom and dad were. My father was famous in the fifties. He had a group called the Amateurs in the Hearts. They were on like chess records. And then by the time I was born, there was a nostalgia wave where they would do these oldie shows at, you know, Madison Square Garden, you know, the Bowser from Shalana presents, you know, Harvey and the Moonblows and all that stuff. So anyway, they got off that circuit and then just had a nightclub act. And so when I couldn't tour with them, I stayed at my grandma's house. Now, in order for me to watch Soul Train at 12, I would have to do whatever tours were necessary. And on the first of the month, that's when the new cheese supply comes. And since I'm Thelma's grandson, you know, it's like it takes a village period where now not only do I have to get cheese and stuff for my grandma, but I got to do it too. For Miss Gussie, Miss Evans, Mrs. Fields across the street. Yeah, you got to get the whole neighborhood. Right. So I got to get up at seven in the morning and stand in the cheese line. Where did your grandmother live? She was in Southwest Philly, like at 49th and King's. Oh, yeah. OK. So I would have to stand in that line and do about four trips, not to mention the ridicule of the neighborhood kids like, you in the cheese line. They was in there too. Late in their day. I was by their household there. I'm like, you ready to kill me? This cheese is going to your grandma's house. That's right. Motherfuckers. Yeah, you know, that's how they do it. So I couldn't. Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't even watch Soul Train until all that was done. So every first of the month, I hated it. But yes, we took that shit in the bucket on South Street. Shit in the bucket. And the thing is, is that if we if we don't make one hundred and twenty dollars in four hours, we're not doing it again. It would just be like, hey, maybe that's how we went on South Street and play for money or whatever. Yeah. But we made like one hundred bucks in the first like hour. And we look like, you know, we've rich because we was thinking like, you know, we get a trizzy. A trans pass is, you know, like a monthly ticket that yeah, New York has that here, right? Like, yeah, a train ticket for a month. It's like, yo, you can get a trizzy. And then date night, see the movie before five PM movies, like three bucks, go to Wawa, get a quarter pound of turkey cheese. Like we were like rich. Like, yeah, we got to do it again. But the next week we did it. I still was in settlement music school. And the bass player there, Josh Abrams, was like, yo, y'all going to do it again? I said, yeah, he's like, well, can I join? Yeah, sure. Cool. So he picks me up in a station wagon and he has his upright in the back and I'm bringing the bucket. And he's like, wait, we got the station wagon. I was like, huh, get the drums. He's like, get the drums. I was like, oh, man, my dad, man. He's he ain't going. So it was the most covert operation where like you had to sneak them out. And this is why like when people ask, like, why don't I play on a regular drum set? Like, literally, I was like, look, we're just going to get the kick drum, snare drum in the high one ride, right? Sneak it out. And literally, I'm, you know, he's listening to sports talk upstairs and, you know, anytime the water runs like we're running outside, whatever. Park down the block. And that entire summer of 92, like I snuck and we got our independent record out and a year later, when we finally signed the Geffen, I was going to break the news to him, but already he put a Philadelphia Enquirer, which is like our New York Times. We were on the cover. He's like, what's this? I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, to me, got a project. So, you know, that's how he got out. So I remember like when we were still at Kappa, Tyree came downstairs and he was he was an art major. Right. I didn't even know he had any sort of, you know, that he could he could freestyle like that. And he was like, you know, play a stone to the bone. Right. Tariq would call the rap reference like, Oh, play the giddy up by three times do. And then I've had to translate to him, play James Brown's stew into the bone. So I was the middleman between all the hip hoppers, right? And him. But knowing that allowed me to sit with the cool kids in the lunchroom. I feel like that says a lot about your personality and your strengths, just this whole like dynamic of you bridging all these different things. Yeah, I mean, he he he plays well in the playground with everybody. You do, you know. Yeah, I play just to get by. Thank you. But it's no longer stressful, is it? Is it stressful? Probably, I mean, I mean, I guess being the MD for everything is always stressful. It's, you know, for me, I'm I'm learning now. OK, this is not even. This is not even. I just got to come out and say it and not try to. Diminish the humble braggingness of it all. But occasionally, I might call a famous. Former world leader and ask for advice on how to be diplomatic and talk to people. Because that's one of that's one thing I'm I'm I was a reluctant leader. But clearly, I'll be stuck in that place if I don't get over the fact that I have to. Like, you can't be everyone's friend. You have to get over it and move ahead and manage people's expectations and all these things. So yeah. Yeah. And that that comes with being a band leader. So I wonder which world leader you're talking about. I don't know. You guys want to play a tune and then we'll play it to what you want to play. Can we do this Chris Christofferson song? Yeah, so I can sing. It's kind of weird. I was just with him a couple of weeks ago and I was just revisiting this album that I love called Borderlord. And I just feel like with your groove on it, it would be pretty awesome. You might give me my note again. Yeah, take it easy. Wait, I'm in the wrong key. Sorry. Now, D. D. Dirty D. D. Darkness had us covered when we split from Minnesota in the morning. In rain. Black as I was feeding and street was slick and shiny as a snake. Each of us was a hurry and two. That half forgotten echo hanging over in the rain. We never had the time to say. Losing air to the rising cause. Living high and loving hard. Leaving every yesterday behind. Learning every bridge you cross is putting down before you're off. And running like the devil just in time. Breaking any ties before they bind you. Taking any comfort you can't find. Running like you're running out of time. I take it all to the till it's over. Understanding when you're heading for the border. To the Lord you're bound across love. Good luck in women every time you stumble. Waiting there to catch you when you fall. Getting back to you now. Let them keep you back enough to just perform your backs against the wall. Breaking any ties before they bind you. Taking any comfort you can't find. Running like you're running out of time. I take it all to the till it's over. Understanding when you're heading for the border. To the Lord you're bound across love. Breaking any ties before it binds you. Taking any comfort you can't find. Running like you're running out of time. I take it all to the till it's over. Understanding when you're heading for the border. I take it all to the till it's over. Understanding when you're heading for the border. To the Lord you're bound across love. To the Lord you're bound across love. Thank you. That is the theme. A Norman Lear production. That was fun. I feel like Roberta Flack, Ron Carter, and Ray Lucas. Thanks for doing that. I love that. Thank you, Nora. Oh, that was so cool. We're not done yet. Oh, awesome. We still got two more songs. Nice. Oh, that was great. Thanks. I love that song because his words are just always so good. And then I like how it kind of changes keys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What key is this in in the end? Down D. Yeah. That's the James Brown key. Did you know that? Oh, no, I didn't know that. That's right. Everything's in D. Just about. I didn't know that. E flat. Yeah, that makes sense. That's Stevie. But he cheating now. Yeah, right, right. Do you guys have any any good stories about each other from high school that are worth telling? My favorite one is, so I'm going to reveal it now. You already know because I told you in the text. So we used to produce this big show every year called called sentimental journey. And it was like the whole school, you know, like the dancers, the singers, the actors, we all get together and put together this big Broadway type show. Right. And we were, of course, the house band. And I mean, what a house band. Me, you, Curt and Joey and a couple of horror players. That's amazing. And so we had this big overture. And at the end of the overture, we had to play New York, New York. And so we had to play a real corny. So we had to do like that. So Kurt was in heaven, right? Yeah, right. Exactly. So we get to the to the concert. Me and him conspired. You know, it's in D. So wait, now Chris, you've set up that any time we've got sent to the principal's office. Yeah. When any, when anything ever was like, at least in D for a good eight to 16 bars, it could be Gershwin, it could be whatever. Yeah. We will find a way to code talk to each other. That's right. In a way. And eventually he caught on to any reference. So it could be like... And then the kids are like, you know, starting to dance and stuff. Get out of here. So it was our last chance to go rogue. And it was like, were you with us when we went to see the Philadelphia Orchestra rehearse? Because they will have those over rehearsals. Yes. And so they were playing the right of spring. Yes. So there's one part in that piece where the Tiffany plays, boom, beam, boom, beam, boom, beam, boom. Just for those two bars. Remember Stacey Doge? The Tiffany plays, boom, boom, boom, boom. She comes and goes, oh! Right, right, right. In the middle of the Academy of Music, she's like, sit down. So we get to... Can't take us no place. Yeah, we get there that night. And we had a look like, hey, we're seniors. Yes, right. And there's only three weeks of school left. What are you going to do to us? And was he going to send us to the principal's office here in front of our parents at the show? Exactly. So go to the build up for New York. So we went and rehearsal was... Right. Right? So that's rehearsal. Man. We get to the concert. So me and him, we... He's like, hey man, we should do that. So then we pulled Joey and Kurt in on it too. So here's how the concert went. All the parents. One, two, one. Star spread in the... That's hot. Yo, the beat melts. And Kurt is going... It was only for 30... And Joey's playing the organ patch on his keyboard. He's screaming, whee! The look on Mr. Rogers' face. He was so angry. Really? He was as red as that exit sign there. I feel like he should have been proud at your musicality. Oh, he proud now. Yeah, he's proud of us. Everyone's proud of us. Yeah, he's glad we did it now, right? So I have... I found... So I had this on VHS for like the last 35 years or whatever it is. My dad shot it, right? Yes, he did. Yes, he did. God. And so I finally got it digitized. So sooner or later... Oh, God. Yeah, I was about to say, there is a... Remember when I went rogue on y'all when I did my James Brown routine? Because I was always full of sing-two songs? We were always going rogue. Yeah. We had some sort of ad-lib. And you said, LaDiva was... Oh, yeah. She was like, what is he doing? Hey. Get him off the stage. Nope, nope. Nah, the audience is screaming. Exactly. He came out in full James Brown regalia the week and... The whole night. Yes. That's when I could... I could still... That's when I could get up from a split. I could still do a split. You just came... I just can't get up. You just came... I want to see that. Yeah, I'm sure you do. See, that's our version of a Carlo. A Carlo. You know, I still had that MP3. I can't believe you know that song. Yo, the amount of people... So, we were on tour. This is like... This is really when pre-social media, when AOL chat was still a thing... Right. You know, welcome. You got... Yo, is there any more satisfying feeling than when you plugged your hotel telephone? Man, look here. Inside the modem. And you... And it goes through... Welcome. You got... Man, that was a great feeling. That was like... Yes! Remember when they had for a short period, you could download a celebrity to say that for you? To say it, yeah. I did Morgan Freeman. I had David Letterman. You had David Letterman. You used to... I am me on AOL. Right. We were AOL pals and you sent me one of my very first MP3s I had of Carlo. I did? Yes. And... Were you surprised? Yeah, I played everyone. You know what she sent me? You know, it was weird. That's such a weird time period because now there's at least five other singers that did their version of going against type. Mariah is another person where she made the best album of her career, but just as a joke. Because she was obsessed with America's obsession with Hole and Courtney Love. Okay. So during lunch breaks or dinner breaks, she would just tell her band, just play some ragged grunt song. But I was listening to it and I'm like... I don't want to insult her, but I'm like, not for nothing, but you know this is your best record, right? Wait, is this something that's out? So she wants, she's figuring out what to do with it. She did this right when she was doing the butterfly record. Now if you look throughout history, a lot of the great musical decisions in music were always afterthoughts and never planned out. The Isley Brothers tells a story about they had ten minutes left in a session and they were like, let's do that church song real quick. And it was Shout. Tequila took three minutes to do. Literally there's a history of just last minute songs. So she just made like 15 songs of just like, I hate my life and da da da da, fuck you. But it's like, I still maintain it's Mariah Carey's best moment singing ever. Because she's not being Mariah Carey. She's not. She's being free in herself. Oh yeah. I mean, there's a freedom in doing something that's not your thing. We just think it's, so how many other just like, let's fuck around and you got that. I do a lot of bands that aren't under my name, but that one's the furthest from my thing, probably El Madno. So the world's never just, you've never released Carlo for the world. Oh no, it's been released. We released it. But did you clean it up? No, we released it. We released it then. What? Yeah, back then. In like 2004 or five or six or something. But we released it without any of our names on it. Because it was a tricky thing at that time. My second album was still pretty big and I didn't want it to be like, remember when Garth Brooks put out Life of Chris Gaines? Yeah. I didn't want it to be a joke because it wasn't a joke. It was really fun. And but it was funny. But I didn't want it. Would you ever do it in concert? We did a bunch of gigs at the Delancey down on the lower side at the time. But where were people's reactions to this? We wore wigs and crazy makeup. And no one knew? Which was also part of the fun for me. I got to be a character, you know? And part of it was hiding myself from the audience, but part of it was just the fun of doing that. Like I can't imagine putting on a wig and crazy Blade Runner makeup to do an orange own show because I feel like people would think I'm trying too hard to be somebody else. But that's in my bones. I love dressing up. But never for an encore once you're like, dude, three and just go into it and the audience is like, wait, what the hell is going on here? Oh, like in a Norrish? Yeah. Carlo? No. I feel like I couldn't do it without them, without that band. Right. Yeah. But we kind of parted ways eventually and the album was released, but none of our names were on it. So it's not like anybody knew about it. Couple people knew it was me, but it wasn't a big deal. This also proves that I do not keep a secret. Well, now I wish it wasn't a secret because in hindsight, like I love it, but at the time it just felt like people would pick it apart too much. And that's not what it was for. I was like, man, she's cool as shit. She's sipping this rice on. Maybe we'll get them on the podcast and we'll do a reprise of it for you. You got to show the world. You know how I knew you were cool because you were tight with Brian. Blade? Uh-huh. You know, when you, when I knew that he had been working with you, he's one of those kind of people that, you know, if he can't mess with you, he ain't not going to play with you. He won't return your Paul. Right. He won't even be me. Right. He's going to ghost you. Right. I know. He's definitely the coolest. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so that's how we connected through Brian. Recently. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I've known you forever, but I haven't. I know. We only played together once. Exactly. And not that long ago. Last year. Soccer. For a jazz house kids. That's right. Foundation. Yup. Yeah. And I had a dog bit me on the nose that morning, so I was all scared to show my nose. Yeah, but you, you killed it. It healed. All right. So what's the next joint? Okay. So, so I wanted to try the St. Angelo song. Okay. What do you think? You want to play electric? Sure. I don't know. I just thought you should play it on something. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And also if for this, it can be sloppy. It's no big deal. That's all I know. That's all I know. You said you wanted to be more sloppy. I'm your girl. But actually I want to challenge myself to see if I can play it unlike the record version. So this will be fun. We started it. We started. So it's weird that we're here. We actually started Black Messiah in this very room. Really? That album took 14 years to make. Really? Like Voodoo took five, but Black Messiah was pretty much started 2002. That's a long time to work on something. He's like molasses, man. So, but we didn't, we didn't do that here. I think we did Betray My Heart at Electric Lady, but. Okay. Yeah. Just coming back to this room, I remember. Is this where primarily most jazz albums are recorded in this particular room? That's a very jazzy room. If you got a nice budget, the Criss Cross records used to be made upstairs. What? Yeah. At Sea or Salem? Yeah. What? Actually, there's a few records I made upstairs. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I've done a bunch here. But you guys both worked with D'Angelo on. Yeah. So, pretty much. Thanks to him, I got a piece. A little tiny shillikins. Yeah. At Electric Lady. I'll say that, you know, probably some of my most adventurous escape moments. Like, my chance did not be a route in just to figure out what else is out there. Mm-hmm. Like, his projects allowed me to do that. And then subsequently, once that record came out, then anything else I worked on, like Common or Erika or Blau or that sort of thing, like, that's kind of how the, what they call the soul-query in era, like, started. But yeah, man. That's cool. That's how you grow? I got a what if. So, there's two what ifs, speaking to D'Angelo. You probably noticed. D'Angelo told me that he initially had, well, he was going to go to VCU in Richmond, where he's from, to study jazz piano with Alice Marcellus. Oh, God. The year he graduated high school was the year Alice retired from VCU. So, he was like, well, if I can't study with him, I'm not going to study jazz. Wow. I always wonder that Alice Marcellus stayed one more year. That's interesting. Who knows? D'Angelo might have been the piano player in Roy Hargrove's quintet. That's crazy. Ah, no, it's man. You give me nightmares. Look at me. Look at you. You look like a rock drummer. Playing all that rock. Why is that snare so tight? Oh, really? Oh, man. He keep roasting me, man. Like, on the news. Why is that snare so tight? He's like, why is that snare so tight? After he played with James Black and Idris and all them cats? Nah, man. He's heart breaking. Oh, and another thing, when, here's what if, this came back to haunt him. In 2001, I started touring with Sting. And so, there was a bunch of different drummers in there. My new catch-aid was first. Then Abel Borrell Jr. came in for a spell, and Vinny Calioula came in. There were a bunch of different cats coming in. And so Sting said, hey, I got a string of gigs. Who you like playing with? Who can you recommend? I said, you need to get my man, Amir. He's like, oh, I'm not familiar. So I gave him the Philly experiment. Right. And I gave him a couple of Roots records. He was like, oh, that guy, yes, yes. So I gave him the recordings. Never heard nothing. I said, well, okay, okay, I ain't going to pry. You Sting, you know who you want. Fast forward 10, maybe even 15 years later. You finally play with him. We were Sting's house band for almost like all of 2010. Yeah. And then I see him somewhere. He's like, oh, man, you're no quest love, right? He's amazing. I was like, man, I'm not going to tell you what I said on the microphone. I said, you remember a long time ago you asked me about drummers. That's who I was talking about. He didn't play it together. He didn't put you and him together. He didn't play it together. Can you imagine how we played in Sting's band together? That would be crazy. Every breath you take would have sounded a lot different. It would have sounded like a James Brown song. Is it indeed? You know what's weird though? We'd have put it indeed. He's so triggered by Stewart's playing. Again, this is me being. Oh, gosh, yes. This is me being a shapeshifter that when I played with him, he instantly knew and he stopped the song. He says, you can't. Don't do that. Exactly. You can't what? He says, I know you worship the police, but don't play none of that. Don't play like Stewart. It triggers me like you don't know. That's crazy. That's very true. So I had to undo. I didn't know how to play like anything, but you know, my regular. Yeah, right. Like all, you know, Stewart's tricky. Have we played in Sting's band? Everything she does is magic. Every little thing she does is magic would have been halftime. Every little. All right. That's great. That would be great. Give me a G. Wait, is this this notated in like a real or a fake book? What? Betrayed my heart. No. No. Oh, I was like, wow, he really made it. Oh, you thought I'd picked it out from a fake book? Yeah, I was like so proud. Like, whoa. No, no, no, we just made some little. No, I just thought the album was great. You understand. I literally was like, wait a minute. Something I had to do with literally is in a fake book right now. Maybe, maybe it is. Maybe it is. Honestly, this is a great song. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart. I will never betray your heart.哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎 You must know you can depend on me You don't ever have to fear that my love is nice and safe I will never betray my heart I will never betray my heart I will never betray my father Through the storm, through the rain I'll come running to ease your pain Like the rails across the train Like the blood in my veins I will never betray your heart I will never betray your heart I will never betray your heart哎哎哎哎哎哎 I'm going to do a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of哎 That was awesome. I think it was great. That was fun. That is a hard, ass-toon to play. We both got flowers in there. But it's so good, and the lyrics are so beautiful. It's the first time I've heard them in the English language. Aw. Aw. Aw. I'm playing by. I'll play it, D. I love you, man. Man, it's a great song, though, and it's hard to play. I'm sitting in the photo of this right now. Tell him I love him. He'll love it. I don't even know where one is in that song. You're gonna do me. I don't need, I don't, if I think about it, I don't know where it is. Thanks, you guys, have been super generous with your time. Thank you, Nora. I appreciate this. Any chance to play with my brother? And to play with you in a real way, finally? Oh, that's cool. Yeah, no, I agree. Yes. No, Joe. No, Joe. Honestly, I would have loved to do this with either of you separately, but I just knew it would be more fun together. Oh, well, this is awesome. Yeah. I never get to play with my man that much. No, I'm so glad. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. Y'all are special. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us. Thank you. See you soon. All right. Sure enough. These guys are such a blast. They're fun to listen to. I love that they have so many inside jokes. It's like they have their own language. Yeah, they do. Talking, but also musically. They have inside music jokes. Well, I started a text thread with them when we were trying to get together for this. And that alone is like the most intense. I was just like, okay, I don't know what's happening here because they were just firing back and forth. Explain. Yeah. They got their nicknames for each other. Oh, yeah. I don't know what's happening. That's the history, man. But we got a lot of good stories. Yeah. And great music. So fun to hear Amir Kueslev whose name is Amir do the drum lesson. Oh, yeah. The breakdown. The breakdown. All the different drummers. That was amazing. And just playing with Christian on the bass is, it's insane actually. He's insanely amazing. That was a dream. And I wish we had just done two days. I wish we had recorded it. We made a record. We should have just recorded it. Wait, we did. Oh, I got some words wrong. But if you want to look up the right words. But if you want to look up the right words, here's the songs we did. We started off with Fine and Mellow, an old jazz standard from 1939 written by my favorite, Billie Holiday. Why Am I Treated So Bad? A song by Pop Staples and recorded many times by many different people, including the Staples singers and James Brown, among others. We did Say No More from one of my albums, Pick Up Me Up, Pick Up Me Up, and that song was actually written by me and my Oda, Sarah Oda. You wrote that song. We did Border Lord, a song by Chris Christofferson from 1972. The song managers on that are Steven Bruton, Donnie Fritz, Terry Paul and Chris Christofferson. I love that song, by the way, and that's an amazing album. The last song we did was Betray My Heart from DeAngelo's 2014 album, Black Messiah, on which Questlove was a collaborator. Thank you so much for listening. We had a blast. I hope you did too. Don't forget to like and subscribe to the podcast if you're able to. If you're kind, be kind. If you like us. Actually, even if you don't like us. Yeah, just like us. Well thanks to Questlove and Christian McBride for joining our podcast. We'll be back next week with Lucinda Williams. Nora Jones is playing along as a protection of iHeart podcasts. I'm your host, Nora Jones. This episode was recorded at Searsound in New York by Steven Sacco, assisted by Jasper Leach, Maximilian Trophy, Tanner Wallace, and Andrew Kohinka. Mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda, additional recording by Matt Maranelli, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Fry, photography by Shervin Lenez, produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Aaron Wong-Coffman and Jordan Runtog, marketing lead Queen Aniki. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.