This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. ["I Heart Podcast"] Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. I'm Strong and Getty. And now, here is... I'm Strong and Getty. ["I Heart Podcast"] Live from Studio C, Senor. Deep within the dirty bowels of the Armstrong and Getty Information Complex. This is the Armstrong and Getty show. For Friday, the 10th of April, the year of our Lord, 2026. And you know, it's funny. I forgot to come up with titles for today. Jack is off. He will be checking in later. But if I had it, it would have something to do with astronauts plunging back to Earth. Wars that look like ceasefires and ceasefires that look like wars. Melania making mysterious statements might have factored in the title. And I might have gone for the masters as well. I shouldn't curse it. I have one friend who is a professional golfer and he had a great day in the first round. And fingers crossed, he makes the cut and plays on the weekend. Anyway, more on that maybe later. Great show planned out for you today. Including conversations I'm really looking forward to with Greg Lukianoff of FIRE, which is the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. Started out as Foundation for Individual Rights and Education, but they've branched out to defend free speech in general, which is, you know, it's like Mike Jihad, number one. Talking to Mike Lyons about the situation in Iran slash the Straits of Hormuz slash Israel, Lebanon everywhere else that the fighting is going on. And on that topic, I really, really want to bring to you a piece written by a terrific author who said, the title is Why the West Refuses to Call This a Holy War. When it clearly is. So we'll lay that out. Also, Tim Sandefur has a new book out about the Declaration of Independence and our nation's 250th birthday super thought provoking. Always fun to talk to Tim. And we'll also be talking to Gordon Chang during our four about the situation with China, which has receded a bit into the background. But there are a couple of really, really interesting angles, including it's become clear Trump too is way more conciliatory and dare I say soft on China than Trump one was. And I praised Trump one lavishly for all of his imperfections, waking up the country to what a threat China is. So what does all this mean? We'll talk about that with the Gordon Chang looking forward to that. Why don't we go ahead and start the show officially now because we want to talk about the topic of the clip. Here we go at Mark. I was just talking to an employee out here at the Space Center in Houston and they were explaining, yeah, there is no plan B, they're coming home. The Artemis II crew has been up in space for more than a week and now they're preparing for the most dangerous leg of their journey here reentry. It's a high speed plunge back through the Earth's atmosphere. So Orion, the spacecraft that they're in is going to slam into the atmosphere at nearly 25,000 miles an hour. It's Ali Bradley on News Nation. I think it may have been on ABC News. Is that the one that Bent knows jackasses on, Katie, David Muir, ABC. Oh yeah, yep. They had an expert on that actually put it in a way, it never occurred to me, I'm not good at physics and that sort of thing, but when you blast off the spacecraft with spectacular amounts of energy and it achieves mind boggling speeds and then slingshots around the moon and the rest of it, something has to arrest that energy so it can land gently in the water. All of that energy has to get dissipated and it gets dissipated by the reentry into the atmosphere which is again a fireball of certain death unless the heat shield holds. God bless the, was it the Challenger that broke apart on reentry? Apologies if that's not the right mission that broke up over Texas. But anyway, their heat shield had gotten damaged and failed and it was horrible. But yeah, it's a near incomprehensible exchange of energy if you will to slow the capsule down. Let's go ahead a little more with the Ali Bradley report. Now if the trajectory is off just a little bit, it could be catastrophic, too steep, the crew could face intense G-forces and structural stress, too shallow in the spacecraft could bounce off of the atmosphere entirely. The capsule is going to generate temperatures close to 5,000 degrees during reentry, becoming a fireball as it tears through the sky. Mission control expects to lose contact with the crew for several minutes during reentry. Yeah, that's actually a couple of really good tips for your first conversation with a woman you'd like to impress, too deep and you'll drive her away, too shallow, same result. Gotta go with perfect trajectory, Michael. I know you know this. Yeah. Studied under my wing for many years. Not wrong. That's how you landed the beautiful girl you married, you lucky dog. So let's plunge on now with CBS Evening News talking about the very same extremely high risk reentry situation. The unpiloted Artemis-1 mission in 2022. This is video looking outside its blistering reentry. Pieces of the heat shield kept flying off. Engineers later found holes and cracks pocking the shields outer char layer. A crew would have survived, but it was worrisome. NASA decided to keep the same heat shield but modify the trajectory of the capsule's return. Lead flight director, Jeff Radigan. We've done our homework and we've really done the testing. Do you feel good about it? I do feel good about it, yes. When we talked to the crew about the heat shield, they all said they were confident that NASA had made the right call and the right fix. Fair enough. Katie, you as a grizzled taker, inner of news, is the heat shield might fail stuff click bait? Or I mean, because we've re-entered from space missions many times. Right, I think it's the fact that it's the same heat shield that they're kind of leaning on because, and the images that they were talking about in that video, it looked bad. I mean, the outside was destroyed. So if they don't get this new trajectory right, you know, this could be awful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm torn because I don't wanna overplay this. On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of space missions as are all of us in Jack as well. And I worry about these guys as they return to Earth. Yeah, NASA is so exacting. If they say, oh no, it was the trajectory and we got it right now. Yeah. I would tend to believe them. I mean, if they say the thing's coming down at 843 AM, it'll be down at 843 AM, not 844 or 842. So I certainly hope they're as competent as they seem to be. Although they're having a couple of terrible disasters. One more clip on this topic. This is Daniel Levis who was an, I think he was an astronaut, right? Yeah, he was an astronaut. Yeah, okay, let's hear him. I'm gonna give you three numbers to remember. 25,000, 5,010. The Artemis Orion capsule could be coming in at 25,000 miles an hour and entering the Earth's atmosphere. During that time, it will be dissipating heat. The peak temperatures on Orion will reach 5,000 degrees and it'll have to pass through that thicker part of the, the thinner part of the atmosphere that fast. It'll take about 10 minutes to get through it all. So once we get through the first 10 minutes of reentry, you know, then we're home free and pass the peak heating area of reentry. 10 or so minutes at 5,000 degrees? Yeah. I mean, what do you clean your oven at? Like 500, 550, something like that? Yeah, like 550 is where, yeah. So 10 times as hot as that for 10 minutes. Great, Scott. Okay, all right, say a quiet prayer, or cross your fingers or whatever you like for America's heroes. I think it's so important that we as a country continue to reach out and explore and dare to do exciting things, grow scientifically, intellectually. The stare at your naval crowd, they're the worst thing for the country. We need to continue to be bold and, and you know, here I am prattling on and on about how I want these people to be safe, but taking chances, whether it's a country or in life, don't curl up into the fetal position, just wait to be dead as a human being or a country. Yeah, Katie? Well, and the confidence that these astronauts have too. I mean, because, I mean, they're the ones doing this and they're up there saying, no, this is gonna be, this is gonna be great, NASA nailed it. So I've seen the science, we're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they just don't wanna talk about it. Gosh, no, they're just crapping their pants. Can we talk about something else, please? I don't wanna talk about the H. H. Hilda anymore. I doubt it. All right, so we're gonna break now, say am I on time? Because we have clips of the week and Katie's headlines squeezed together so we can talk to Greg Lukianoff at the bottom of the hour. Please do stay with us. Arm strong and get it. Welcome. Thanks for being here. All right, I came up with a couple of titles real quick. First of all, a game of telephone with five different languages. That's what the negotiations remind me of. You remember the game of telephone? Oh yeah. He plays a kid. Yeah. Yeah, that game always almost disturbed me because I could, and it's just the way my brain works, I could remember what they said verbatim. I mean, exactly. Yeah, just I couldn't not remember it. So I never quite got how it twisted. I would get impatient with people and be like, just say what the person said to you. Not realizing that everybody's brain works differently. I never played with people mature enough to not mess it up on purpose. Oh, okay, hilarious. See, I have no sense of humor, so I wouldn't accept that either. And then my other title is gonna be Be My Guest because we've got some great ones, including Greg Lukianoff coming up in moments from fire. But first, before we get to Katie's headlines, we're compressing everything. We're just making this up as we go. Let's take a fond look back at the week that was, it's Cal Clips of the Week. Hey! Clips of the Week! Open the ex-lative straight, you crazy bastards. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards. Iran and the US vowing to send each other to hell. The entire country could be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night. Failing to meet his terms will result in Iran being bombed back to the quote, stone ages. It was truly the 11th hour down to the wire when President Trump announced this ceasefire agreement. We'll be hanging around. We're not going anywhere. Stay tuned, this ceasefire is already looking shaky. Right now, President Trump's main condition for this truce is not being met. The Iranians are still saying publicly they're in control of the straight and that it is closed right now. But we're obliterating it. They just don't want to stay on call. What happened? I don't think the voters fully understood, and neither did we in the public sector, what it was going to take to actually get this project delivered. I can't stop thinking about how grass lawns are racist and like based in white supremacy. Experts have found that strong glute muscles can increase a person's lifespan, but also drain a brother's bank account. So one of the tests that we do is trying to get them to say something like, Kim Jong-un is a fat, ugly pig. Could you say that for me? Yeah. Ah. I... So I just say, I should say, like, yes. Like every problem that we have in society right now will be fixed when women come together. They provided zero dollars to deal with the ongoing genocide of MMWG2SLGBTQQIA plus MMWG2SLGBTQQIA plus. The lies linking me with the disgraceful Jeffrey Epstein need to end today. It's clips of the... We'll see if we can get to the Melania Epstein statement. At some point, I think most everybody's reaction, including I've heard the White Houses, was, Okay. Okay. Nobody's quite sure exactly what motivated it. There are some clues, some author who put out some tell-all type book has been doing podcasts saying that she had an association with Epstein, but I mean, nobody knew that had happened until she brought it to our attention. So is there more to it than that, Katie, as far as you can tell? The only source that I saw really hammering this message was CNN, but they were saying, nope, she's doing this so she can get out in front of something before it comes out to the public. Yeah, okay. I don't know. Oh, I just, you know what? Melania seems like a lovely gal. I can't see making the decisions in life she's made, but I'm not a woman in the Slovenian supermodel, certainly. But thanks for bringing Epstein up again. Damn it. I know. I'm so close to just being in the, just the quite distant past. Yeah. Here it comes again. All right, let's figure out who's reporting what it's lead story with Katie Green. Katie. All right, starting with the major networks, talking about Iran still. ABC, Trump says Iran, quote, better not, collect straight of Hormuz toll. CBS, US and Iran prepare for talks as shaky ceasefire holds, straight of Hormuz traffic remains low. And NBC, Pakistan and France condemn Lebanon ceasefire violations. Oh, shut up, France. I know. Lebanon, I get. Well, quit having armed political parties. Lebanon, I know we can't help it, they're tougher than we are. But France, shut up. From the Wall Street Journal, inflation rose to 3.3% in March, driven by rising fuel costs. Yeah, is this a trend or a blip? Talking heads are gonna babble all day long. I don't think we will, but it's not good. From the New York Post, Robert McIntyre flips the middle finger in Wild Masters meltdown. Yeah, he was unhinged. He's a really great Scottish golfer, kind of pasty, slightly pudgy looking guy, but hot tempered. And a couple of times he like hit a bad shot and slammed his club into the turf, which then he and his caddy tried to set right, but you don't do that at Augusta National Sun. There are super famous champion golfers who've screwed around and Augusta said, this is an invitational tournament, son, you will not be asked back again. So that's a major scandal in the world of golf. USA Today, are you struggling with dating apps? It could be your digital body language. We need to get into that later. Yes. Study finds talking robot guide dog could change how visually impaired people navigate. That is one of the areas AI could be wonderful. Yes. The handicap blind elderly could be incredible. Please don't crush our civilization and drain our vital fluids, please. And finally, this one from the Babylon Bee, Canadian astronaut humanely euthanized after suffering light bruise during moon mission. Oh, that's a good shot at Canada's culture of death. Yeah, troubling, heavy. You ended on a heavy note. That was supposed to be funny. Not a heavy, lady. Yeah, I know. Wow, wow, wow. Slim pick into the Babylon today. Sorry. Your annual review is gonna be a rough one. All right. Hey, can't wait to talk to Greg Lukianoff. He's coming up in just a moment or two to talk about free speech and speech on campuses and the cancel culture and all sorts of stuff. Whatever wherever the conversation goes, first amendment on our nation's birthday. Stay with us. What a pleasure this is to talk about the freedom of speech, the first amendment, perhaps most vital principle any self governing people can hold with Greg Lukianoff of the foundation for individual rights and expression. Greg is actually the president and CEO. Also the author of a handful of books that I've really, really enjoyed, including unlearning liberty, campus censorship in the end of American debate, freedom from speech. And I really enjoyed a shortage book. It'd be a great place to start the war on words, arguments against free speech and why they fail with Nadine Strassen. Greg, welcome, how are you? I'm pretty good. Unfortunately, business is booming for first amendment attorneys these days and that's never a good sign for the country. Yeah, yeah. And I think both sides indulge too frequently, too easily in let's silence the other guys because we don't like what they say, obviously. Oh, how would you characterize the state of free speech in the US right now and we'll just go from there? Well, I want to expand it even from there because I think people really need to get, and I want to say this to your entire audience, free speech is in trouble globally. Obviously China and Iran and Russia were not free countries, but the level of totalitarianism that you can deliver with a combination of surveillance and AI is terrifying. The European Union and the UK have completely turned turned around on free speech. So they're arresting something like 12,000 people a year in Britain now for essentially hate speech in Britain. I mean, my mother's British, they used to laugh at us for a political correctness here and now they're enforcing it by law. Canada and Ireland were playing with actually passing a hate speech code that could result in life in prison. And even within the US, we're the only country left that really cares about free speech, down to our core. And here I'm afraid we're blowing it as well due to partisan politics. So I know like I'm a Gen Xer, people my age and older, whether we're right, left or center, we get freedom of speech, but we need people to come together to defend it for opinions they don't like, just like we used to in the old days. Because the only way you really prove that you care about free speech is not defending the free speech that you already agree with, but it's the stuff that you actually disdain, that's how you show your commitment. Precisely, I think we need to teach over and over again that it's the sort of speech that anybody would object to that needs to be protected, because speech nobody objects to doesn't need protection, you ninnies. You know, it strikes me. Well, except on campus sometimes, like if something can get you in trouble on campus, sometimes it's like, I don't even understand how people manage to be offended by that. You know, I wanna get to campuses specifically in a minute, but it struck me as you were describing the global free speech issues, that the motivations behind the cracking down on speech were different in different places. I'd rampant immigration from the Muslim world in the UK in particular, and Canada is one of the core issues there. Very different issues in the US, but the thought that clicked in my brain, and give me long enough, I'll come up with the obvious, is that the right to free speech is a bulwark against like any out of control cause or philosophy. It absolutely is, because here's the thing, you know, our founding fathers were brilliant. They were basically proto-neuroscientists. Like they understood that our brains are incredibly good at rationalizing our way into something that suits our interests, that we can kid ourselves, we're actually thinking of all humankind. And power always wants greater control over speech, and even more dramatically, spruce. And this is one of the reasons why we have the protections of the First Amendment, that's why we have an establishment clause for that matter. These are things that our system of government really understood, but power will always rationalize its ability to be like, I should be able to shut up people who really pissed me off. You know, like I should be able to go after that speech, and here's my high-minded, sounding reason to do it. And having something as powerful as the First Amendment to say, no, we're not doing this here, has been one of our real saving graces, but we're undermining it by a death of a thousand cuts at the moment. Well, and as you mentioned, it is highly disturbing that a lot of the younger generations have, and this is entirely our fault, have been anesthetized into either not noticing the incursions in free speech or encouraging them. A COVID, the COVID period was an absolute nightmare, in my opinion. The exercise of government control, quashing of dissent and that sort of thing. But also the cultural aspect of it. So COVID in 2020, fire in my organization, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, used to be the foundation for individual rights in education, because we were focused on the really severe threats to free speech, academic freedom, et cetera, in higher ed. But it was 2020 that made us decide that we have to become the foundation for individual rights and expression to defend free speech for everybody, even beyond campus, because we also saw one government coercion. But even scarier to us in a lot of ways was a lot of Americans saying, I'm gonna get you, it was cancel culture. I wrote a book called, Canceling of the American Mind, about this, to demonstrate with data that this really happened, and it wasn't saying, because there's still people who are claiming that this didn't happen. They're like, no, it was a free speech disaster during that time. And we realized that if we have a situation where people really think that you have a right not to be offended, and that it's actually noble to censor what you consider to be bad people, we've really fallen astray. So one of the things that makes fire different is we don't just fight in court, and believe me, we do fight in court. We are also trying to get people to understand the philosophy of freedom of speech, how to live with it, and all the benefits of it as well, because we wanna make sure we pass this down to our grandkids. Amen to that. We're talking to Greg Gluciano from FIRE. So let's talk a little bit about cancel culture. One of the more interesting conversations I've been following through the last several years is what is quote unquote cancel culture as opposed to the birds of what you say, coming home to roost, taking responsibility for what you say, how can you tell if it's quote unquote cancel culture? Cancel culture, the thing that lawyers sound so frustrating about cancel culture is that because it's about a cultural norm, it has to be a little looser. But really kind of like, and I try to get people to think about this in the aggregate, that essentially, yes, can a private company decide to fire someone because they don't like their expression? Absolutely they can. And actually under the First Amendment, I'd fight for the right to do that. But I'm always trying to get people to take a deep breath. And if you're an ass themselves, do you wanna live in the kind of country where you can have an opinion or a job, but not both? And rethink that. Because one of the things that really is falling away is this sense of pluralism, that essentially, it's okay if my pizza boy wants to vote for Trump or Biden. That's fine. I think of these old American idioms that we used to say a lot of times when we were kids that have lost favor and kids today don't know as much, that are as simple as everyone's entitled to their opinion, to each their own. Walk a mile and a man's shoes is kind of saying, essentially, essentially the same thing. It's a free country, which we said all the time, are really important small D democratic values. And I think that if you're seeing a situation in which someone, like, yeah, sure, someone's being unprofessional in their job, there's no question, you can fire them. But for example, there was a case at the Washington Post where there was an opinion reporter. He retweeted one slightly, I mean, very slightly edgy joke, retweeted it, and then of course, there was this huge backlash to get him suspended or fired. And I was like, listen, if you wanna know what cancel culture and free speech culture look like, what free speech culture looks like, is to say, do we really wanna punish this Washington Post reporter just for retweeting a joke? Right, yeah. Yeah, so it's funny, I wrote down this quote and posted it on the studio wall here, and I didn't write who said it, and God, I could have been you. It might be Peter Bogosian or Jonathan Hyde, I'm not sure, but what they said was, political disagreement is increasingly treated as a serious moral offense, rather than a simple difference of opinion. When you see the world that way, punishing someone for holding different views becomes a moral good. I thought that was a really good explanation. That really could be any of us, come to think of it. Well, I'm stealing it. And I hope you will, you know, because we want this to catch on, because it really is very much with our own lifetime that we have very different attitudes about free speech as a society. And I will say that the role that K-through-PhD has played in that erosion is really shameful. So there was someone who wrote recently on Twitter, like given, and we are absolutely, we fight people all across the spectrum, we were suing the Trump administration, we're in a lawsuit against Trump himself on free speech grounds. We are the most non-partisanist, institution in the country. But someone actually wrote to my co-author, Ricky Schlott, on Twitter, of canceling the American mind. You know, don't you feel like, by comparison, you know, what was happening on college campuses was no big deal or sort of quaint? And I'm like, absolutely not. We have a situation in which people can, I mean, something like 70% of students think their professors should be reported for offensive speech. And when they actually get to that point, for offensive speech, and when they actually drill down into what did they mean by offensive speech, it wasn't for sexually harassing students, it was for saying things like, biological sex is real, or, you know, someone who actually would repeat the data of Roland Fryer, you know, from Harvard, who basically pointed out there isn't that much evidence that there's wildly disproportionate shootings of unarmed black people versus white people by police. And now, to be clear, Roland Fryer said, actually, our overall take is that police shoot too many people in the United States, but that ultimately that disparity isn't there as much. They were basically saying the students themselves were being taught to police factual statements that in some cases are probably true in order to achieve something to protect their ears or something. Oh yeah, well, I think it's more than that. And if you don't mind, we need to take a quick break and follow up on that thought and talk about the philosophy that's driving a lot of what the college kids just think is, you know, outlawing hate speech and objectionable speech. But Greg Lukianoff of FIRE, Greg, great to talk to you. Hang around just a couple of minutes. We'll continue in moments. We are midway through a conversation with Greg Lukianoff, the president and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression and the author of many fine books and co-author on that topic. Greg, thanks for hanging around, really appreciate it. Yeah, no, I was happy to. So as I often point out on the show, I, Joe Getty, the last thing I am is a conspiracy theorist. I'm somebody who's been studying political systems and political movements since I was literally a teenager. And it's the most fascinating subject on earth. And one thing that has really frustrated me is how few people understand that a lot of what we've been talking about, the censorship on campus, the microaggressions, the banning hate speech, quote unquote. A lot of it is people who've bought the moral argument that that's what they should do. But it is driven by, and nobody talks about this, the critical theory crowd, the folks who are fans of Michel Foucault and Frans Fanon, the French philosophers of the mid 20th century and into the 1970s. As I often say, they wrote books. They put their names on the spine. They explained exactly what they wanted to do, and it's exactly what we're witnessing. Any comment, degree, disagree, thoughts? Oh, no, absolutely. Although I would actually go after, you know, because I'm not a thinker, I have a lot of respect for Herbert Marcus. Because Herbert Marcus was a Marxist, he had to flee Germany when the Nazis took over. He lived in academia, I think at Brandeis and UCSD, UC San Diego, where, and he sort of was trying to sort of reform Marxism, because it turned out the proletariat didn't really like the intellectuals. So he kind of remodeled it so that essentially it would be a combination of the intellectuals he educated in the United States, versus with what he very sensitively called ghetto populations against the right. He was incredibly clear that he thought there should be free speech for the left and not for the right. He couldn't have said it more primitively than he did in a essay called Repressive Tolerance. And that view that you can't really be equal if the bad guys who are allowed free speech has taken over in a lot of spaces. Even when I was in school, even I was in law school back in 97, I was running into this argument already. And I was like, I worked at the ACLU, I grew up believing that free speech was like the defining sort of liberal characteristic. But unfortunately, we have this sort of terminological term where you have this kind of like much more typically old European style Frankfurt school left, that is very hostile to free speech, but calls itself liberal. And so I personally think right now the center left and the center right have much more in common with each other than they do with their wings. And when you look at the data, we are the majority and then some. And we believe in freedom of speech. And we have to talk back to these people who don't realize that they're spouting Marquess and Foucault and all these people who, by the way, people in their own lifetimes like Habermas, who just died, did an incredible job of refuting. These weren't, in my opinion, particularly deep thinkers or good historians. But unfortunately, we have a lot of people who think that the morality is on the side of the center. Greg, we only have about two minutes left. Let's jump to an action plan. Now, I support fire in every way I can, including financially. What's the most important thing everybody listening can do or things they can do to help fight for free speech? You know, please find out more about us. But the most important thing you can do is to make it known that when someone gets in trouble for speech, you personally disagree with, you do not think they should be fired. You do not think they should be arrested. You do not think and stand up for them unapologetically because that's the thing that brought people like me into this business, seen the ACLU stand up for the rights of the much-sins, you know, Jewish lawyers standing up for them. That was the most principled thing I'd ever even heard of in my entire life. And that's the kind of thing that gets people to understand that free speech belongs to everyone or it belongs to no one. Right, here, here, you know, I grew up only a few miles from Skokie, Illinois. And following that drama as a, gosh, a kid, teenager, whatever it was, and having my parents explain that principle to me, it gives me chills thinking about it because it was such a formative moment. Yeah. And I was, my parents were both immigrants and I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of immigrant kids. And the idea that, you know, our families fled countries where they didn't have freedom of speech. And we were finally in a country that was so principled that people would even defend their enemies. Let's not give it up. Greg Lukianoff of Fire, we'll have a link so you can find it easily enough in his books and that sort of thing at armstrongandgiddy.com. Greg, it's always a pleasure. It's been too long. I hope we can do it again. Absolutely. All right, thanks. Thanks, Greg Lukianoff. Yeah, I seriously get so fired up about this stuff. I've threatened many times to get a First Amendment tattoo, but I don't want to tattoo it all. So I don't think that's going to happen. Coming up next hour, we will catch up on the situation in the Gulf, the Straits of Hormuz. We'll talk to Mike Lyons. Also, oh, and I'm excited about this. If you were listening, I think it was two days ago during our two of the show, we were talking about the miserable state of education in America, the public schools, the government schools, as I prefer to call them. And boy, did we get reaction from educators that the folks in the belly of the beast fighting against some of this stuff every day. And their impressions about what's wrong with American government schools is, that's the testimony, I think. We all really need to hear, right? So we're going to hit that next hour. Jack's going to be checking in from a scenic Salina, Kansas, where he's visiting a family and where our careers together got started, actually, many years ago. So hope you can stay tuned. If you can't, you can always subscribe to the podcast and miss nothing. It downloads automatically. 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