From Trailer Parks to $500M: The Truth About Mastery, Mentorship, and Modern Marketing

and we are back on another episode of the vaults unlocked and today we don't just have the great we don't have the master we have the legend there are very very few people in the world that can called them legendary and today we have one of those these are the ones that we want to capture we want to bring them in we want to study them because they are the unicorns today we have jim edwards who is guaranteed to blow us off blow the socks off our feet get the hairs on their back of our neck standing up our teeth chattering our knees knocking i'm excited with i don't know how many books he's written he said he's lost count of how many books he's written he's been probably attributed to over well over 500 million plus in online sales and more countless businesses. Here he is. We're going to literally get down to the one thing that I'm excited about. Without further ado, the man, the myth, the legend, Jim Edwards. How are we doing today? With that intro, I'm at least 10,000 times better than I was three minutes ago. So thank you, cave on i'm doing i'm doing great i appreciate now jim for our listeners who uh who might actually not know who is jim edwards and the reason why i'm just going to add this is you wouldn't know him because they're the ones that are out there that say they're great that are allowed in the marketplace and then there's the legends who stay behind the scenes and help everybody else and this is who jim is so jim for those who don't know who you are please tell us a little bit about you and you know, how you got to where you are today. So first of all, thank you very much for having me and your kind words are very kind and I appreciate it. Um, so I actually started selling online by accident back in 1997. I had written a book on how to sell your house yourself. And I got rejected by 40 different publishers. It took me four years to write the book. And I just piled up the rejections and the other stuff, threw them in a corner. I was getting drunk with a fraternity brother at homecoming 1997. And he said, yeah, my dad and I just bought a web server. And I'm like, yeah, I've been on the internet. I said, Hey, you think I could sell my book on, on the web? And he's like, sure. I mean, totally unqualified to, to answer that question. But all he wanted to do was sell web search web space. So I was paying 150 bucks a month for a hundred megabytes of web space on a server in 1997. Long story short, I spent the next four years figuring stuff out, trying to get, you know, just figuring it out, how to create a website. This is back when you had to give blood to be able to take credit cards. And I was bankrupt and living in a trailer. I was literally processing the transactions through my aunt's craft store at the Williamsburg Outlet Mall. So not only was I explaining to people that I wasn't sending them a physical book. I was going to email them an ebook. Okay. But also why their credit card was going to reflect country treasures. Okay. On their statement. So I really struggled for about four years in 2001, I was introduced to the idea of a one page sales letter. Now I'm not the brightest bulb because I had spent money on one page sales letters, but it never dawned on me that, hey, you know what? Maybe I could write one of them. So I went to a conference where I was actually speaking and I saw a guy give a presentation. I had no money. I couldn't buy his program. So I took what he taught and I went back to my room and I took my 40 page website and converted it into a one page, one big long page sales letter, took a bunch of stuff I'd been doing for free, converted it to bonuses that they got. And literally my sales went up 250% overnight because I'd gotten good at driving traffic. I just sucked at conversion because my website sucked. So that was enough money generated from that little site to cover a house payment, two car payments and electric bill. And people ask, you know, what's the funnel? What's the website that changed your life? It wasn't the one that I made $40 million from. it was the one that I was making about 1500 bucks a month from. And so, you know, over the years, for the first 10 years, it was, I was figuring stuff out. So I figured out eBooks, then I figured out MP3 files. Then I figured out doing online courses, screen capture video, full motion video, all these things that we take for granted now that were really freaking hard to do. And what would happen was I'd figure out how to do it. And then once I had proven it, made money with it, then I would teach other people how to do it, which is very different from what people do now, which is they sell bullshit theory and, you know, have a good sales letter. And so in 2006, that kind of, you know, it's like the guy at the patent office back in the 1800s said, you know, everything that's been invented has been invented. But I mean, I'd done eBooks and video and membership sites and all the stuff. and pretty much that was the end of the things, the mechanical things that you could do. I mean, if you think about now it's courses, software, I developed software. I've been developing software for 20 years. Um, and, and so what happened though, was that I, as I was teaching people to do this stuff as a matter of course, I was teaching them how to sell the stuff I was teaching them how to make. So whether it was making websites or whatever, it's like, Hey, here's how to write a sales letter to sell this. Here's how to write the emails to sell this. Here's how to do the video scripts to sell this. But I wasn't doing that as a standalone. I was doing it as part of whatever I was doing. And, and so it was like the afterthought. And so when people were coming to me, Hey, can you teach me how to write a sales? That ain't what I do. But then, you know, about 2016, like I said, I'm not the brightest bulb on the, in the tree. I, and I've been developing copywriting software since 2006 and it just dawned on me, you know what, maybe I ought to start teaching people stuff on how to do this because they're not, I mean, I'm like, don't y'all know this? I mean, I've been teaching this and I just took it for granted. So I started teaching it. I, I just, I really started focusing in on that and kind of moved back a little bit from the self-publishing and other stuff that I had been doing. And I wrote a book called Copywriting Secrets. You may have heard of white labeled my software to create a software package called funnel scripts that I did with ClickFunnels, which was my, you know, about second generation technology. Now we're up to about sixth generation. And that's just kind of how it, how it went. And, you know, a lot of that's, that's the gist. A whole bunch of stuff happened along the way. You know, but that's the gist of how I got to be here and how I went from a trailer, living in a trailer to living on, living in the swamps, you know, I, I laugh because it's not the swamps. I actually live on the beach, but I call it the swamps cause it pissed my wife off. Yeah. So, so there's, there's so much, I, I, as I even just think about where I want to go with this, I, I, I'm just always thinking about the audience and I'm thinking about not trying to just, uh, think about where I want to go, but where, where we should go here. One of the things that you said, there's two major things. But one of the things you said is I just, I kept teaching myself. I keep teaching myself. What if you're somebody who doesn't have that ability to teach themselves? Like it seems like you, you can be maybe academia was your thing or whatever it might be is if once you put your mind on something, you kind of will figure that out because there's a lot of people out there that say I will teach myself or they're on, you know, the shelf help line or the YouTube line. And they're still failing dramatically at even trying to get their first funnel off or first sales page off or even first business off. Well, what makes you the difference? So the difference is I always chose the hard way. And part of that was because there was no one to teach how to do that. There was nobody to teach you how to set up your website, which now you call a funnel or the email or any of that stuff. So you had to figure that out. Well, now guess what? There's all kinds of things to be able to show you how to set up your website, set up your email, set up your ads, all that stuff. And so my advice is don't figure it out for yourself. Go find somebody who's legitimately doing it. See, that's the one problem is you got to find somebody who's legitimately doing it now. Because what you also see is people who are teaching what they used to do, but if they're not still doing it, they're teaching a lie. What do I mean? Well, things change. They change on a daily basis now. So if you're teaching what worked last year, but you're not still doing it today, you're a liar. You're teaching stuff that used to work. Great example today. We're launching a funnel that I've, you know, I've been working on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sent out the first email. I will admit, dude, 600 people to the website, no sales. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah. But it's like, everybody thinks you, like you, you arrive and everything's perfect. So I had to go back and I had to look, okay, what's the, what's the promise? Where's, okay, now I see, you know. So it's, and so we're adjusting stuff. And I'm very confident we can make the thing work, but it's not like everything you touch turns to gold instantly. And these people that are out there teaching stuff, if they're not doing it right now, if your hands aren't in making a funnel, writing sales copy, writing a book, like all people that are teaching how to write books, when was the last time they wrote a book? I mean, here's my galley copy of my book that I published last week. Okay. It's, if you're not actively involved in it, you shouldn't be teaching it. And so if that's the cautionary thing for you, if you want to learn something, you can figure it out yourself. The hard way. The hard way. Sometimes you do have to do that. Okay. But the other way is simply by finding somebody else who's doing it legitimately right now can prove it. And the other thing is can prove that they're helping other people doing it. So here's the thing. You know, I talk about self-publishing and stuff like that. Yeah, it's one thing. It's one thing for me to be able to write a book that sells 125,000 copies. But here's three people that I helped write a book in a recent challenge. I just got these books, picked them up from the post office this morning. Okay. These are just three of the books. All the books you see up here are people that I've helped. So it's not just that I know how it's great that I know how to do it. I've proven I can do it dozens of times. It's whether I can prove that I can help other people do it recently. And that's where you really thin the field with the people out there who are quote unquote gurus because you got people who used to be doing it. And then at some point they got off at the rest stop on the highway of doing it and they're holding court in front of the porta potty down by where the truckers are picking up hookers. and i mean it all sounds good next to the vending machine but it ain't it's not legit if you're not doing it right now that's the key you know oh i i totally agree and i and i love what you're saying i want to just take a step back because i just want to make it so clear is there's there's two lanes when it comes to learning information and or trying to build a business or trying to learn the new skill you can go the hard way where you can do it on your own and that's fine no one's saying that's a bad way, but there's the hard way. Or you can do it the easy way. And the easy way is seek the experts, seek the people who are doing it, not teaching it that are actually actively doing it and get the shortcuts. It reminds me of something, I'm sure you know, Alex Hormozy, I heard a quote he just said on a YouTube video, and you know, not the exact way he said it, but he said one of the, you know, one of the greatest things to his success that he that he says that got me there was he just paid for it right like in aka like he just paid for access to get to the information right um why do you think and we know that to be true and we and we've been in the industry long enough to know that is true but why do you think people are so hesitant to actually pay a little bit to learn so they can take the easy way but they decide to take the hard way which goes to the saying most people live a hard or leave an easy life and that's why their life is hard where successful people live a hard life and that's why their life is easy. Yeah. So the problem is, is that the people who choose the hard way typically don't believe in themselves and they don't believe even if they have the information that they're going to be able to get the result so they can use the excuse. I'm figuring it out. The other thing is, is that there, I've called this like the womb of academia, the success in the making. See, you can get a warm, fuzzy feeling in your stomach while you're figuring it out, while you're a success in the making, while you're going to get there, while you're a dream building, while you're educating yourself. I mean, I've got a niece who's 30 years old, never been married, never had a real job. She's almost a PhD. I mean, I like her, but I also know that she's screwing around in the womb of academia because, well, she can. Other people are paying the bills. And where you see the people who are willing to pay, and that doesn't necessarily mean you have to pay a gajillion amount. Pay is money and time. See, if you don't have the money, you're going to have to invest the time. And if you can't invest the time, you're going to have to invest the money. There's no way around that. But the thing is, the people who will do it, the people who will actually take action are the ones who believe in themselves and that they will make this work. Mm hmm. And so I you know and but you also have a subset of those people that blow the money on the person who has the answer but then they still don do it But then they have an excuse as to why that person let them down and their info was bullshit and blah blah and blah, blah, blah. And that actually can help them play into their victimhood, which victimhood feels good. Victimhood is a reason why it's not my fault that I don't have the thing. So what you're trying to do is thread that needle of, I got to believe in myself, I got to believe in the process, and I got to believe that I'm going to do whatever it takes. Because knowing it and acting on it are two different things. Because you can know what to do. We all know what to do. Here's the thing. I truly believe that we all know plus or minus 90% of what we need to be successful. And all we're going to need to pay somebody for is that 10% of the shortcut. Yeah. But if you don't have the 90% covered, then the other is just a waste of time, energy, and effort. Isn't that interesting? It's like, it reminds me of the example of that guy who just buys a software, doesn't really watch the videos or anything, jumps right in, can't figure it out and then says it doesn't work. Like this is typical or doesn't follow instructions. And, and the problem with that is that most real hardcore entrepreneurs, I don't know how familiar you are with disc, but the D's, the dominance, that's, that's what, that's what they do. It's, it's, it's, and so you, you, in some cases you have to take responsibility for it. But in other cases, you have to try and set it up so that they see doing what you want them to do as the path of least resistance and also set it up so that you can have communication with them. So when they do bitch, you can then, excuse me, they do reach out with a concern to customer service or whatever. You can say, Hey, understand completely. did you go watch the 10 minutes worth of 30 second videos that'll show you exactly how to do what you want to do i mean great great example got two guys yeah i know yeah okay just real example so two guys i know really smart millions of followers i mean just really super sharp dudes they're like hey we want to write a book great i'll put you through my program they're each doing it independently. And they're, they're texting me all the time. Like, Hey, what's the next step? Hey, what's the next step? And I'm like, Oh, I don't know. I spent 30 straight days making little videos to simplify this whole thing. Why don't you go to day 12 and watch 10 minutes worth of video and you'll know what to do. Oh, okay. Thanks. I mean, it's like, they're not even offended when you're telling them they're being dorks. Yeah. Yeah. I get, I mean, I'm the high D high I, So I kind of get that sometimes it's just, I just, just want to be told. I just know, because you know what it is, is, you know, for me, I can actually tell you, cause this is what popped up when you said that for me is I just want assurance. I am watching that right video. I don't want to waste time or energy. So it's like, I just want the assurance 100%. I'm on the right path. I don't want to spend any mental capacity or time to even know if I'm on that right path or not when I can just call someone and just tell me the next so I can put all my energy there. So I get it. It's a pain in the ass. I'm sure it's not the greatest quality, but I get it. But it's not a pain in the ass if you structure your offer the right way and you charge appropriately. Hey, I'm ready. I would love it. Can't understand why you haven't called me sooner. Yeah, there we go. Now, I want to take a step back because I said there was two things, right? So we kind of really understood why some people choose the hard way versus the easy way. No matter what way I, you know, we learned they choose, there's still an act of doing. And the majority of the people they're not doing is because they either from what you've kind of said is they either don't believe in themselves, they don't truly believe in themselves. They're caught in the idea of being successful, but not willing to do the work and the pain that comes with it. So just the idea is good enough for them to feel good, because they've actually invested into something that's never going to come to fruition. The second thing that I think is so important that I want to debunk, we talked about this offline, but I really want to debunk this, is all these people, and we know who they are, who are the leaders of this, hey, you just need a funnel, and you'll make a million dollars. Hey, no, you're doing it wrong. You actually need to do a five-day challenge. Hey, no, you're doing it wrong. You actually need a book. No, you need a community. All of those things I call them, whether it's the right word or not, I call them modalities. Those are not what makes people buy. Now you've said, you know, once you learned how to make a one page sales letter, it changed everything, but I can go write a one page sales letter today and I won't be able to make anybody buy. And I really, really want to go deep down into what is it with all those modalities, all these different things that are actually happening for people to actually have real conversions. Okay. So it's people are focusing on the wrong stuff. Okay. And so I'm to try and do this quick because I can spend literally a whole day on this. What's happening is there's four things at play here. There's the avatar, there's you, and there's the offer. So what is the avatar? The avatar is the ideal representation of your ideal customer. And you need to understand the difference between psychographics and demographics. Okay. Demographics are, you know, my ideal customer is a male between the ages of 42 and 53. It's got 1.2 wives, 2.3 kids. And I always felt bad for the 0.3 kid. I mean, little Timmy down there. I don't know what's missing, but 0.3 is not good. He makes a certain amount. Demographics are good for identification, but they are not good for communication. In other words, I can use demographics to figure out, hey, that's the right person to talk to, or that's where a cluster of these people are. But the psychographics are what you use to communicate with people. And the easy way to think of those is hot buttons. This is far beyond though. Hey, what makes them wake up in the middle of the night with a cold sweat? What makes them dream with envy and all this other stuff? Well, that's what I was going to, it's funny you said that because they're okay. So I'm excited because you said hot buttons right away. My brain went to 2am, the 2am problem. Right. But that's not necessarily going to motivate them to buy anything, and it's not necessarily the basis of all appropriate communication. So you have to isolate. Okay, their hot buttons are, who are they? And who are they now, and who do they want to be? You know, I'm a part-time speaker, and I really want to be a professional keynote speaker. Okay, well, now we've identified current identity, ideal identity, and the transformation. Now we can talk about some cool stuff. But if you don't take the time to figure out current identity, ideal identity, and what the transformation looks like, well, I guess you're just going to be talking to point two Timmy. And so who are you? What's your immediate focus? In other words, what are you worried about right now? What's the number one thing on every government, federal government employee's mind right now? Am I going to get ripped? Am I going to get laid off? Am I going to get a freaking paycheck? Okay. This is immediate focus. Now, also, you got to know what's their long term focus. What are their objections? What are the false beliefs that they have? What are the you know, all these things that then you can use as the basis for communicate? What are the questions that they have? OK, so here's where I'm going to give you because because of your expertise, the legendary status you have, I am going to play the devil's advocate as we go, if that's OK with you. Sure. Because I got, I'm going to play a little resistance because I, I see so many business owners take the lesson that you just did. And then they go and they go, okay, I got it. And they still fail because they don't actually truly understand what it is they want. Like in the case, you know, whatever the avatar, these government employees, what is it they actually want? What is it that, you know, you, you, you, you get what I'm saying? These are the words. These are, this is their set of communication parameters for how you're going to communicate with them so that they're paying attention. You've heard the old thing of, you know, enter the conversation going on in the prospect's mind. Well, that's actually mostly bullshit. Okay. What you're trying to do is tap into multiple or one of multiple conversations that is top of mind right now. Okay. So I know you got small kids. So, I mean, I could tap into some stuff about, you know, keep your children safe from child predators. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Is your spouse cheating on you? Cause you work too much. I mean, you know, they call him the UPS driver, daddy. I mean, I'm just, I'm just saying, but this is how we use words that are going to resonate. Now, the next thing we got to do is figure out the offer. This is where people screw this up. Tell me your definition of what is an offer. My definition of an offer is whether it's the product or service that you're going to give to, or the outcome, I would say, of the product or service that you're going to give to your audience. So for instance, if I, you know, once I was training sales reps, right, new people, how to be high ticket closers, the offer is, I'm going to teach you how the number one skill that is, yeah, that is XXX, that's going to go nowhere, highest paid skill in the marketplace. And I'm going to show you how to do that in 30 days with a guaranteed job. Okay. That's my offer. The offer in, if we're going to make this really simple, you nailed it, but it's the promise. And it's the promise of either satisfaction of a desire or the promise of a solution to a problem. Now, if you really wanna simplify this even more, it's the satisfaction or the solving of a problem because if they don't have the desire, their problem is they don't have the desire. So if you really wanna get down to it, an offer is the promise to solve a problem. So what is a problem they have? What is the desire they have? That would be the biggest, coolest, biggest, coolest promise you could make. So I'll give you an example. Okay. I'm going to show you how to write a book, publish your book and become a best seller in 45 days or less. That's a pretty good promise. Okay. Yeah. So in the time that it takes somebody, most cases, just to even decide what the hell they're going to write a book about. I'm going to have you conceptualize it, outline it, create all the content. I mean, I got the whole thing. Okay. But the basic promise is I'm going to show you how to in this time. Now, this is where people screw it up. The offer is the promise. The offer stack is what you get. And the promise has to carry the load of the instant knee-jerk reaction of, yeah, I want that. Okay, how are you going to get me that? Then the offer stack is what we use to remove objections that typically are based around knowledge, skill, resources, support, and tools. Okay, those are the five things that you have to address. so now you know who they are words they use you know and offer a promise that they really really really really really really really really freaking want but you're not done kvon no because now you have to explain why you why you why the hell should i listen to you hell you could have figured all this stuff out on chat gbt okay why you where does your and really what this comes down to is your story which is a combination of your results your hero's journey and isn't it interesting this is an actual real venn diagram that works okay and not only your story in your results, but other people's results that you've helped them get. Okay. I don't have any testimonials yet. Fine. Go find a live human being, drag their ass, clicking and screaming across the freaking finish line so you can hold them up by the nape of the neck and say, if this asshole can do it, anybody can do it. Then you drop them. Just kidding. But, but that's every, you can make excuses. You can make money. That's what I think Zig Ziglar said that. Yeah. So now here's the thing. All the stuff that you described before, when you're talking about gurus and other charlatans, okay? Yeah. They all are talking about the vehicle, which is the lowest common denominator of this whole thing, which is the offer stack, which is, hey, do you need a community? Do you need a funnel? Do you need to know how to run Facebook ads? Do you need to know how? But I remember when I was younger, just starting out in business, I heard a story. I don't remember. It was part of, anyway, a guy told the story and he said, young man was starting a soda company and his grandfather was backing him. And he went to his grandfather and he said, Hey, I'm going to need to get, I need money to get a, I need to get a desk. I need to get a computer. I'm going to need to get a secretary. I'm going to need to get an office You know do we need to buy an office condo And grandpa said you don need any of that crap until you have a customer Go out and get customers and all that other stuff will take care of itself Now, that's not an exact comparison, but what it's saying is until you know who you're called to serve, what promise they're willing to spend money to have fulfilled for them, and you have figured out how you figure into this whole equation and how you're going to deliver on that promise so that they can get the promise fast, easy, simple, and addressing those five areas that I told you before, don't worry about going signing up for a school account or a ClickFunnels account or getting a Kajabi thing or spending $10,000 figuring out how to light a video. It no, nobody cares. And nobody cares. And that's what you were describing at the beginning of this is why people fail is because they're worried about the vehicle, i.e. the offer stack without doing anything to do with this stuff. And if you skip this, like, oh, I know my customer's hot buttons. I do remember just a spastic old man. Great. If you don't do all the other stuff, it won't matter because you're going to miss something. Yeah. I, I keep going and seeing your screen there. Uh, and I keep going to where it says the offer, because to me that's offer is part of messaging in the sense of the message of how you're going to, you know, present your offer. Um, and that's where I feel is maybe the one we're talking about the vault unlocked where the thing that really changes everything is you can know your avatar. Well, maybe not. That's the question right there. You're trying to isolate it, but they all exist together because what we're trying to do is for this person, the person we're trying to sell, we're trying to answer three questions in rapid succession in the subconscious. Why this? Why you, why now? Why, why this? Because we really want it. Why you? Well, it makes sense. You're teaching this. Why now? And that's part of the offer and the offer stack and having some sort of a deadline and real, you know, reason why to buy. Those are, but those are all, you know, you're saying, oh, what makes a Ferrari amazing is the paint job or what makes a Ferrari amazing is the 12 cylinder engine or what makes it amazing is you know it's all of this together and and that's why it works so how does if someone's starting out and they they have an idea of the avatar they want to go towards but they don't understand the offer meaning they don't understand the problem they're the actual problem that they can serve they think they understand it this is this is the nuance that i'm trying to and i can't the words where i see so many people they think they're solving the problem of their avatar but they're not actually solving or they're not marketing to the real problem and this is why they get a little bit of success but they can never actually scale past six figures a month because they actually haven't hit that one thing that the one the one hot button that actually changes everything well it gets them to go from why now why this why me but part of that is also testing too. Notice I said, who is it that you're called to serve? It's a calling. It's not, who do I want to fleece as fast as I can because some asshole on a webinar told me that I could go through these three things and I could analyze this thing. And then I could come over here and use ChatGPT to write a sales letter. And these people, dude, menopause is a big freaking problem. okay i can't solve the problem i can solve it for guys you know what i got three rules you know how i survived menopause i'm sorry you're right dear and shut the fuck up jim yeah okay those but that that's like one of those low content books you know i can have the three rules at the front and then 200 pages of lines which you yeah you write all down all the stuff that you might have said but saved your marriage by not. So here's the thing you got to understand is that when you are called to serve someone, you'll figure it out. And when you're called to serve someone, typically you're called to serve someone you used to be or someone that is close to you that you love. So good example of that second one is I met a guy 20 some odd years ago. I was doing a a seminar in England, guy named Paul Chivers Grierson, great guy. Remember, he sends me Christmas cards to this day. Only met him once. And he had a membership site to help parents of autistic kids. And because he was the father of an autistic child. Well, guess what? As his kid grew, he grew with the kid and the parents and the families and all this other stuff. Because he wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to write a book on having an autistic kid, and then I'm going to move on to underwater basket weaving. It's like, I'm called to serve these people. So I'm going to figure out what resonates with that. And the way you figure it out is by actually interacting with them. Now, here's the other thing, though, is a lot of times, we make stuff way too complicated. We need to just get down to, hey, you know, I can show you how to write a book, so you'll be able to enjoy unlimited authority in whatever your chosen niche market, you'll be able to establish a competitive advantage over your, over your, uh, any competitors, you'll be able to blah, blah, blah. And all they hear is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If I say, Hey, I'm going to show you how to write and publish your book and become a bestseller in less time than other people take to even plan their book out. And I've done it for hundreds of people using these exact same tools. In fact, here's three that just came in. And so if you've ever thought or been told I should write a book and use it to build my business, I've got something that will work for you. Now, I pretty much covered all that stuff real quick, okay? Because I understand the audience. So the other problem is that people expect shit to happen overnight because the people who make the promise of shit's going to happen overnight so that they can separate you from their money. And all they got to do is just make sure you make it past the 30 days of the refund period have kind of trained people that they've lied to them. Yeah. Okay. And so there are a lot of people out there who are want entrepreneurs high on hopium who will believe that bullshit. And so you got to ask yourself, do I want to be a legit professional? Do I want to do real business or do I want to do monkey business? So again, back to some self-reflection. I love it. I want to go back to one thing. When you talked about the promise, we can make the promise, which is the satisfaction of their desire or solving the problem. And in your experience over, you know, decades of writing sales letters and marketing campaigns, what have you seen proven to be more successful when you're selling to the desire or you're selling to solve the problem? It depends on which is more intense. Which is more intense? Intents for the reader. Are they, okay, so for example, you know, I, God, so many inappropriate examples come up. So, okay, example of, and really where I really learned this, okay? I had a program, and I think I, this is where you'll hear me rummaging around and stuff. Oh, here it is. Hey, look at that. I'm almost organized. um so back in the day when stuff was on cd roms and on uh audio cd i had a program called five steps to getting anything you want and i actually you know i went in the studio and did the i was doing it's going through my whole nightingale conant phase i wanted yeah yeah the self-development phase that everyone wants to teach yeah you go on your first seminar and now you're going to be the guru. Got it. Been there myself on it. So it's actually really good though. Unlike the bullshit. And so you got to, you got to believe in your own stuff. And so I put together a really good sales letter for it and I put it out and the headline on it was how I went from dead broke trailer trash to, um, world famous and rich or something like that. I mean, it was not, It was all about me. And so I'm watching my traffic come through 100 people. Nobody buys 200 people. Nobody buys 300 people. Nobody buys 400. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm you know, that whole thing that goes through your mind of I'm going to be poor again. I'm going to have to go get a job. This sucks. This is a scam. I'm like, this is a scam. I'm like, wait a minute. It's my own shit. I can't say this is a scam. So I asked myself a really important question. I said, okay, what would a world-class marketer do? And instantly, a little voice said, test the headline. I said, okay. So best way to test a headline is model another headline. All right. Well, what's something I bought recently that made me buy? So I went and I bought this search engine promotion guide and it was basically how to get a how to get an unfair advantage in the search engine wars i said okay um i said i changed the headline to how to get an unfair advantage in life and 100 people came through and i made a sale so i'm like oh holy crap yes i saved it okay and then the little voice came back though it said hey dipshit if you can do the one you need to test another one. So I came up with another headline was how to get a positively unfair advantage in business and in life. Another hundred people came through. I made five sales. Okay. So I went from zero to one to five. I had a 500% increase in sales. And that little funnel went on to make $120,000 in like a month and a half, which doesn't sound like a lot now, but back in 2005, $120,000 was some money. Okay. Yeah. Probably around 300 grand today. It's at least double. So my point though, is that I, by by understanding what's going on with their hot buttons by taking the focus off of myself by putting it on to them and focusing on hey you know what i thought their problem was is that they were poe but what they wanted was to feel like they had an unfair advantage and and the other thing, and this is really, this is hard to explain. It's kind of as much feel. If you can phrase it in such a way that they draw their own conclusion from it, as opposed to you spelling it out for them, it is much more effective. So instead of saying, hey, how to raise yourself up to a six-figure lifestyle. Okay. Well, for some people that's unattainable for other people, it's, it's like six figures. That sucks. I can't be that poor. And, and all these other things come in. But when I say how to gain a positively unfair advantage in business and in life, you're filling in what that means for you. And, and that's like where the magic is happening when, when you're able to communicate that. But again, until you know them real well, and you know this stuff, and you can't do it. So you've answered the one thing, right? And the one thing is it's deeper than just the avatar, the offer, because like, you can think you know the avatar, and you can think you know the offer, but like, there's that underlying the nuance, whether you can get from testing what I'm hearing from you can get from testing or you just get from experience and or you said you said a couple times now you never said this way or you're being completely authentic in your calling and what you're being called to serve yeah which then comes from a different energetic which will maybe help you find that missing piece and I'll and I'm going to explain to you why why why this because one of the most fascinating things that happened to me was how we went from zero to 38 million in 18 months. And I, you know, I built the entire business behind it, but I was not behind the pure reason it, you know, it went, which was understanding the psychology of our buyer. Right. And, and my partner at the time understood that we were going after people who are the immigrant, you know, we call them the lower conscious people, the immigrant people who just want to be rich. And they, he didn't say, we're going to solve your problem. He basically sold the idea that this thing that we're going to teach you is going to make all your dreams come true type of thing. He knew exactly how to speak to them and how to get them to believe that just hanging out in the community was good enough. Right. And to me, I've always looked back and I said like that, how do you bring that to every other business you go to? Because when you crack that code that's the code everything else becomes easier marketing actually becomes easier right but sales becomes easier fulfillment becomes greater like but what you just described is the classic problem where you get people who are really good marketers that are shitty at delivering and so they ruin it for everybody everybody and and so what we got to do is it's it's a it's actually real simple. And you've heard this before. And I bet your readers, listeners, watchers have heard this Okay Sell them what they want And this is where I differ Everybody says give them Nope Include what they need for success Okay, that's the difference. What happens is that a lot of marketers get drunk on their own power that they're like, oh, I know how to make them buy. Well, good for you, Sherlock. But maybe the best thing to do would be to get real good at getting them to buy and then delivering on the promise. And then you'll have relationship with people. And I don't know what it is, but it's like, this is, this is the disease of a lot of marketers is that the people who are amazing at selling, not all, but many of them suck at delivery when, okay. the the problem is is that it's probably if they were able to create the result that they're selling people on the fact that they did this then what sucks is just their ability to translate what they did into something that is actionable by the people they're selling to but you can solve that if you would actually just get a partner get somebody that could you know get it out of you and turn it into a system whatever it might be yeah they could do it but that's that's the big different sell them what they want include what they need and you don't even mention this is what you need so what do you you've worked with many marketers i know you work with tons of authors you know authors speaker business owners coaches trainers professional real estate agents real estate agents all the people literally anybody who's listening and wants to be that wants to be successful online and that's a vast conversation but i'm just saying anyone that's listening that as an online business or wants to use the world, the world of online to sell or promote their product. What do you see today? The number one problem and, or number one thing they're doing that's sabotaging their business. They it's a, it's a two part thing. They don't know who they are called to serve and they don't stick with anything long enough to be able to create a result. and if I could put a third thing on that is that their end run objective is to try and maximize short-term cash flow where their ultimate objective should be to create and maintain a relationship with someone who can buy for decades. Dude, I got people that have been with me for 25 years buying stuff from me. God bless them. I thank God for them every day. But if I had been focused on just trying to maximize short-term cash flow from, here, I can tweak this little ad, and I can do this, and I can just cut here, and I make more money for a month, I would have been hosed. It's the relationships that will save you. because ultimately what happens, and this is where people screw up. This is, this, I'm, I'm, I'm, this, I'm going to share with you something that a 90 year old guy shared with me when I was 22 years old. Okay. Even if you're doing really well, this is what your income is going to look like. Yeah. Okay. This is where most people are living. so even though their income's going up they're spending money so basically what they're doing is they're spending next year's money this year and as soon as you have that one little downturn you gotta hustle you gotta lie you gotta do whatever it's and it's never lying it's just you know it's marketing man i'm just doing what i gotta do to survive man manipulation misrepresenting not being in alignment, all of it. This is where you live monetarily. This is where you live so that you can make the right decisions, so that you can hold yourself to a higher standard, so that you can do what's right for your company, for your customers, so that you have the time to learn and figure stuff out and become competent before you start selling people stuff. Okay. But this is everybody's income and their progression, their education. And another way to look at it, I saw recently, which is really, which I actually like even more is- I just want to add this as you're doing this for the people that can't see, because there's a lot of listeners driving right now. What we're drawing right now and what we were talking about is living below your needs versus above your needs. and then the understanding your income and revenue as a business owner and living below them. So you can actually withstand the low times and really enjoy the high times. But what we see, I've seen this too many times and I'm a victim of it myself. We live a little bit above our needs and we, you know, work and it compounds over time and it's not good. We also see on the board right now that It's not linear. It's not linear. It's up. It's down. It's left. It's right. It's in circles. It's everywhere. As long as the trend line is going up, you know you're becoming successful. Right. But the problem is that at the top, above it is desperation and stress. Yes. But if you're living well below your means. okay i've never lived like i was making three four million dollars a year okay i live like i'm making about ten thousand dollars a month that's how i live yeah but if you have no debt if you have no debt think about that no debt could you live real well on 10 grand a month if you can't you're an idiot yeah um but this is where down here is where we say f you money everybody thinks f you money is is like $100 million. No, F you money means if your boss fired you, if you lost your business, if you decided you were done, you'd be like, F you, I'm done. I'm done for a year, 10 years, the rest of my life. Okay, that's where you wanna be. That's where we all wanna be. But everybody else is living somewhere in here. And that's why they're stressed out all the time. That's why they won't take the time to master anything. that's why they're they're always looking for the next bright shiny object the shortcut all that stuff okay and that's i mean and i've seen that for almost three decades now so it's and i'm sure it was like that before but on the internet it is magnified yes yes magnified to the next level i seen it i lived it myself personally i've been in it i've watched it happen multiple times right uh and it's because you just said it is this false hole you see it every day learn how to be a millionaire in 30 days nobody i mean 99.9 of the population is not becoming a millionaire in 30 freaking days and if that actually worked the person that's selling it to you would be doing it for themselves and keeping it a secret it's kind of like i was at a gas station i was at a gas station in the 90s had a guy come up to me and hand me a card that says we create millionaires and he's got a A.L. Williams magnetic sticker on the side of his 1979 rabbit diesel that was all discolored from the diesel smoke on the back. And he's trying to recruit me to sell life insurance for A.L. Williams because they create millionaires. Dude, that's bullshit. It's not happening. He doesn't believe it. You don't believe it. Here's the other thing. When you're living up here, you don't believe it. That's the thing. You're a fraud. You literally are a fraud. That's why I'm talking about, you know, the thing, if you're not still doing it, then you're a fraud. Yeah. And I know that people, oh, I don't agree. No, bullshit. If you ain't doing it, then you don't know what works right now. You're not going to have your toes in it. You don't know what is and what isn't working. What is, you know, the changes in AI and all this other stuff. You don't know because you're not doing it today. I mean, I admitted to you, dude, I launched a funnel and, and the first day it pooped, but I know how to fix it. Yes. You know, most people don't know how to fix it. And I'm, they don't even know why it failed that. Yeah. And I get it. And it doesn't work right out of the gate. And I think here's something you're not saying that I think is very important there when you're living above that line. So again, for those that listen, we're living above our needs and you're trying to build your business is you don't actually have the time or the money to actually stay in the pocket long enough for something to work. And that's what I see a lot of people that you think by changing and pivoting, pivoting, pivoting, all you're doing is starting from zero and zero and zero versus knowing that like, I have, I know people that have been working on their funnel for two years, three years now, optimizing, tweaking, optimizing. And they're now getting that funnel to a seven figure a month funnel, but it took time, but they've been out in the street, making it, you know, with it going on. And that goes back to what we talked about. It's easier to be a success in the making. I'm getting ready to get ready. Someday I'll be a success as opposed to getting out there and getting your nuts pounded flat and being, okay, that didn't work. Let me get a steel cup. I'll go back out and try again. Okay. Now they knocked out a tooth. Okay. Let me put on my grill. You know what I mean? I'm now I'm, I'm, I'm like that kid from toys or not toy story from a Christmas Carol Christmas story. When he's coming out and got a snowshoot on, man. I mean, he, anything truck, it hit him. He'd be fine, but that's just, you got to get out and make it happen. But if it has to happen instantly, I mean, I've, I've had people over the years come to me and say, Hey, I need to make $20,000 by the end of the month. I said, well, do you have an audience? No. Do you have a list? No. Do you have a product? No. Well, think about selling a kidney, brother. Yeah. Yeah. And because it's not even all that has not happened in a month. Right now, as we are, I mean, wow. I don't think we even touched the surface here. So I'm going to ask, we're going to see if the listeners want Jim back. I know I want Jim back. We need and must do a part two because we didn't even get to the sales page. Oh, wow. I wanted to understand what it is, you know, what is on that sales page? What are the dynamics of the sales page that make it convert? And I think that's worth a part two. I'm just going to put it out there, Jim. I mean, it's up to you, but you let me know. I'd love to come back as long as your listeners are like, nah, I don't like that guy. He's a jackass. Well, I don't think so. I have a hard time believing that to be true. Jim, for those that are like, I need Jim. I need, I want to write a book. I want, I need a funnel. I got a funnel issue. I need to understand copy. I need to understand my avatar. Where can people actually find you today? How can people work with you? So the easiest thing is just go to Jim Edwards.com. Jim Edwards.com. Yeah. It's like not all that sexy. I mean that you can, I got links to all my stuff there, but you know, Jim Edwards.com would be your best, your best bet. I'm going to ask one last question with all the chaos. I'm going to call it chaos because I believe it's chaos with all the chaos that's going on in the world today with all the false promises with all the fake gurus coming up and having the dollars to make themselves look like heroes but are arseholes on the inside with all of the uh the you know whatever that program is that software i don't even know what it's called anymore where all the women are making millions of dollars you know showing off only fan stuff thank you with every all of these things that are happening if there's someone listening right now and they're, they're just like, I just want a small seven figure. I don't even know where to small seven figure income. I don't want a small seven figure business, you know, to be able to make a couple hundred grand a year for myself, serve my clients and live a good life and not have to be in an employee. Right. What would be your advice to them in today's chaotic world that we live in? So it's the same advice that was given by someone I never met, but I consider to be a mentor of mine from back in the 50s. And I'll tell you who it was after I tell you what he said. He said, but no matter what's going on, whatever you see in the world, there are people who are seeing the exact same thing. And what everybody wants is to be led, is to have the night on the white horse, ride over the hill and protect them and lead them to a safer place. And so be that person for the people that you are called to serve. And the number one thing you need to figure out is who you are called to serve, not who can you fleece the fastest. Who are you called to serve and what promise can you make them in order for them to pay you money, cash value for the use value that you give them. Now, I just described the part about the person on the white horse is something that Earl Nightingale talked about in his Lead the Field program, which I think everybody needs to listen to. And so be the hero. Everybody's looking for a hero. and right now the people that are being put out as significant and people we should pay attention to. I always want to punch people when they say we're in an attention economy, even though I guess it's true, but it's like chicks with big tits, guys that punch people or do stupid stuff. All of these things that people are paying attention to are not what your customers want to pay attention to, but you haven't stepped up yet to be the hero. And you don't need to be a hero to everybody. You just need to be a hero to the people that you're called to serve and develop a freaking relationship with them and help them over time. It's not wham, bam, thank you, man, one night stand. It's like, hey, we're in this for the long haul. That's what I would encourage you to do. Be the hero and then help them be the hero of their own life. So I'm going to say this, if you feel like you've been called to serve or to help, but don't understand exactly how to do it, you must go to JimEdwards.com. Again, if you've been called to serve and you're having a hard time being seen, heard, or being able to communicate with those people you need to serve, go to www.jimedwards.com. Jim, that was amazing. I love it. We are definitely going to do a part two. Thanks for being here. Thank you.