#620 - Keith Peterson

Today's guest is a true Renaissance man. He's a father, he's a MMA referee, he's a musician, and he's a mechanic, and he absolutely hates nonsense. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. No Nonsense Keith Peterson. I'm sitting here with the man, No Nonsense Keith Peterson. Thanks for joining me, man. No problem. I gotta ask you straight up, dude. Is there... how much nonsense is allowed? In what? In fighting or life? Like, what are your thoughts on nonsense? Because you got the name No Nonsense, right? Yeah, I don't know. There's a time and place, I guess, right? But I think the No Nonsense thing is just my approach towards things. And, you know, John Anick gave me that nickname, and it kind of just stuck. And I think it fits, you know, but, you know, there's nonsense. So you'll allow a little... Okay, depends. They're on the holidays. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess. Okay, okay. Maybe on your birthday we can just a little bit of nonsense allowed. Usually, most of the things I do, I do very straightforward and, you know, no nonsense, I guess. Yeah, I've been involved in too much nonsense, and it gets a little hairy, that's for sure. Yeah, John Anick gave you that nickname, when was that? Yeah, a few years ago. Yeah, we had a few conversations, and then I think on air he said it, and it just seemed to take off and fit. Yeah. And I think it does fit. Yeah. You know, nicknames are weird, but I've had a few. Yeah, what are some other ones you've had? When I was little, my nickname was Froggy, from like the Little Rascals, the voice. Oh yeah. The little guy with the voice. I've always had this voice. So, yeah, that was my nickname, pretty much, until I got a hold of it, kind of grew up. Some people still call me that, though. Yeah, there's this girl who moved in across the street, and she came over because she wanted to play. Sounds a similar one. That fits, right? That fits. You're from New York? Long Island, yeah. Long Island, New York. And I originally lived in East Meadow, Nassau County area, and now I live in Islet, New York. Islet? And how did you get into referee, and how did that start for you? Well, I fought amateurs for a while, and for about three years. All different fights, amateur level, MMA fights, Muay Thai fights, kickboxing. And then we had a lot going on, so it was getting harder and harder to put the time in. And someone just, it's like, oh, why don't you judge or be an inspector at fights, at amateur fights, or stuff like that? And I was like, okay, that sounds cool. I'll still be at the fights. And then I went, took this course, and I was in New Jersey, and there was this old referee, Donnie Caraly. He ref the bunch of my kickboxing, MMA fights and stuff. Donnie Caraly? Yeah. He passed away a few years ago, and he was like, you'd be really good at refing. You'd be really good at refing. So I got my chance to ref a few amateur fights, and it kind of just took off from there. And he was pretty supportive during the amateur part of it. Were some of those early bouts tougher? Was it tougher to referee then? Like, is it something that gets easier over time? Yeah, I would always, I compare it to, and I don't know if it's a good comparison, but it would be like being a brain surgeon. Like, you're not going to be as good as you're going to be 10 years, but no one could die. Yeah. Pretty simple. Right? And so you learn lots and lots of little things. So you're saying, so you're not going to be as good as you're going to be later, but as long as you don't let somebody die. Yeah, you got to stop the fight when it's supposed to be stopped, and then the rules, it all comes in as you go. Take me on like an early experience that was kind of like a lot for a referee. Yeah. So for me, my first couple, I remember my first or second time refing. The fight was really even, as amateurs, really even, and then the kid was like, you know, losing pretty bad. And I was like, wow, this kid's losing pretty bad. You know, this fight should be stopped. And I was like, oh, no, that's me. And then I stopped it. And then, and then kind of from there, you're like, yeah, you're the one in there, you know, because it's, you're up close and like, you know, you have to adapt into a referee. Like, at first, you know, I came out from fighting. So my mentality was like a fighter. Like, as a fighter, I didn't always agree with the referee. Like, you know, Oh, it's a good point because as a fighter, you have a year, you're just doing your thing. And, you know, especially, you know, at the high level, like this is, you know, it's their health, their lives, their livelihood, you know, and all the dedication in the world, you know, that it takes. So, you know, they're on a different journey that day than I am, you know, for sure. And are there fighters that will tell you they'll come up to you before about and say like, this is like, do not do this or do this. Yeah, you'll get, you know, do not. And then I just let them talk and then I, you know, do my, you know, whatever my criteria is. I don't change it. You can't. No. Is there one fighter that's like, do not for anything? Like, is there somebody that's just like, let me go to the end of the road every time? Like somebody that stands out because it's kind of like, this has been like, not to name any, but a lot of times when they say, don't stop this, they usually end up stopping it. It's weird or they'll like tap or something. They'll like, you know, be like, wow, you know, especially when they say, you know, I'm willing to die with everybody. But some guys are just quiet and just, you know, that they're there to get the job done. And, you know, and as far as, you know, it's like, as I said, a criteria, you know, let's say you've watched a lot of fights. Like when I'm ref and I'll say like, you have to move. And if they fit that criteria, if they're defending and they can move, you know, it's a fight. My main thing, as I said, this, you know, they're putting their health on the line. My main thing is to have them fairly fight and, you know, health, like them leaving and being able to fight again or whatever they want to do again. Right. You know, be a family person. Like there's a lot, like besides me being a parent myself, it's the most important thing I'll ever do. It's very important. And, you know, on the outside, it's just a fight, but a lot can happen, you know. So you're kind of like a safeguard. Yeah. And, you know, and it's like you're in there and as I said, emotions from everywhere, right? Fighters, corners, people who are there to watch the fight from, you know, you get a different vibe from the people in the front row, from the people in the back row. Right. So it's a very emotional. So really, I try to keep my emotions aside and, and, you know, just have the set thing of what I do each time. And, you know, everyone makes mistakes. No, I don't. That doesn't make them acceptable either. Like, you know, oh, everyone makes and they do and I do. But, you know, make a mistake, admit it and learn from it and move on. Is there a fight that you've had to like, you were like, yeah, maybe that was a little earlier. That was, I didn't read it correctly or try not to read it totally into the early ones. I don't have many where I'm like, oh, that, that was late. I got, um, I'm lucky that I don't really have one where I'm like, wow, that's not what I'm here to do. So that, that I'm lucky, but, um, you know, to know as you get more experience, you know, like, you'll know when even like sometimes someone like, I think that was a little early and you'll know right. And yet it wasn't a little early. Like, because you're there right next to him. Right. So, you know, you hear all the sounds. That's a good point. Yeah, you're right there. I mean, you're connected. You're, you're right there. You're the closest person to you can feel a different energy than we can. Yes. And, and even cameras, I've done, I, you know, cause I look at my work when I'm, when I'm done with it and I've watched five different angles and like usually the only angle, like there's one angle that I'm like, oh, that's what I saw. Yeah. And the other angles that kind of maybe a little bit and then there's one like closest to where my eyes are and they are where you're like, oh, that's what I saw. You ever go back and, uh, like, you're like, oh, that's what I saw. Like with your lady make love to a fight a watch one or something like that, like that, you know what I'm saying? Watch a fight, watch your work type of thing. I could think, you know, people will like watch their, Oh, like watch it. Yeah. Just to say, wow, I did great. Yeah. No, I don't look at the ones I think they could. Yeah. Yeah. What, uh, tell me a little bit about your life outside of work. I know you're in a band. I remember you telling me about it one time. Yeah, I was in, I was in two bands. It was my first band. We started in 1998. And my other one, we've been around a pretty long time too. Um, what's that band called? The first one was called GFY and, um, the second one's loser sometimes win. And, uh, they're like New York hardcore bands. Hardcore. Yeah. Nice. And where do you kind of model the, what is GFY for? Go fuck yourself. Oh yeah. I was younger, younger then. Yeah. Oh, that shit was fun, huh? Dude, where did you guys play? What was the first one that you guys started? Um, we, uh, Long Island guys and, um, we, uh, met, you know, like a music scene. Yeah. And, um, we met, uh, I was like, oh, we start something and then we just started it. And were you singing? Were you playing an instrument? I sing. You did. So that voice as part of it, was that one of the reasons you even got into singing is because your voice was kind of different or? Uh, it's like, it just happens to be that my voice kind of fit the hardcore thing, but I liked hardcore way before that, but, uh, kind of like started listening to hardcore punk rock music when I was really young. But yeah, I was just into like, I got into heavy metal and like black Sabbath and all that. And then when I started hitting my early teens, I wanted to find something that kind of like fit more of where, where I was and more like a work as man, like street music and stuff. So that's, I found hardcore and just fell in love with it from then. You know, I'm still, still, that's what I listened to. Uh, I listened to every, you know, not everything. Actually, I don't like people who say they listen to everything, but I listened to a lot of types of music. Let's, let's take a gander at some of it. Let's take an ear gander here at a little bit of it. Play that second one. Actually, I like till I die. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. You coming on this? Yeah. I think right after the intro. Well you, you came to wreck everything and ruin your life. God singers. Yeah, that's right. There's two singers in this band. Yeah. Yeah, bro. That vibe is a pure vibe, dude. That was like, that's like one type of culture, that whole energy. And it's like silly too, like the intro of that is the death march, right? And it was like Halloween and I pressed this thing and that's what it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So I went to my guys, I'm like, yo, play the death march. Yeah, and there you go. What are the ladies like that would come to those shows? That's how I met my wife. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's a pretty good show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. From right before the band started or whatever I met her. And then where do you meet her at? Like taking through that. At the band Hatebreed, at a Hatebreed show. Hatebreed? Yeah. Bring them up. They're famous. And are they out of New York? No, Connecticut. They're famous now, pretty, they play huge shows. Yeah, I think I've heard their name before. Yeah. And so were you guys just like, were you at the concession stand? Or were you just like kind of like, I don't know if there's a concession stand, but yeah, it's just tongue piercings in vodka. In vodka. Yeah, where do you meet her at? At the show and just, you know, whatever the dance and what do you call it, the Marsch Pit. And yeah, and we just met and that was that. Dude, those pits are fun. Kind of if you can coordinate the pits, do you ever do that when you're on stage? Or you're like, all right, everybody to this side and this side and then you make a merge. Like I was at a suicide boys show not long ago. There's probably a lot more people at that show than my shows. But they'll do this thing where it's like this kind of controlled thing, but Marsch Pit used to be pretty sick. The wall of death. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. When there's a big crowd, those are cool looking. Yeah, shit's dope dude. Yeah. Hunkerman that does that really good with Seth is sick of it all. They do a good wall of death. Sick of it all? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not familiar with them. I think I'm not familiar with as much of that genre of music. When I was growing up, we had like a brother's friend, like my brother's friends, they had a band that was like that. And so like being the younger brother, we go, you know, just try to get involved and stuff. But there was always this kind of like, I think in our area, it was kind of fringe a little bit just because we didn't have as many people that listened to that type of music. Yeah, in New York, it's, you know, even though it has its ups and downs, but like at one point you had like CBGBs was like the home, you know, and stuff like that. And you had lots of clubs and so it's... Would you go there when you were growing up CBGB? Yeah, that's where I went mostly. And then I ended up playing there in both bands a few times. Yeah. Bring it up. CBGB. CBGB was a legendary New York City music club in the Bowery district founded by Hilly Cristal in 1973 that became a crucial incubator for the American punk and new wave rock movements. Though it was initially intended for country bluegrass and blues music, which the CBGB, oh, I didn't realize that name stands for country bluegrass, the unglamorous, gritty venue hosted influential bands like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads and Patty Smith Group before closing in 2006. Wow. So do you remember who you go see there? Oh, yeah, it was like New York bands like Sick of It All and Not Stick Front. Pretty much like once you kind of get into that, then it's all friends bands, they get to play, they play there, you go, like we played there a few times. It was like Sundays, you know, you'd go to, that's where you go take the train and go to a show. And then there was, at the time, on the biz like a bunch of clubs and, you know, great clubs there and, you know, being young, you just go, you know, at one point you can go three or four shows a week. Yeah. So that became like main focus for a pretty long time. Did you have like a routine before you got on stage with your band? Did you have any? Yeah, you know, like I would just stand like selling shirts or stand behind the distro and kind of get ready and just get on and go. It's not much, you know, I'm a slight, like I don't even, you know, I think it's good, but like anyone could do it. Well, what I was doing is get on and if you love it, you just start screaming, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, I like the raw energy of it all is really what I still love and I don't get to go to shows as much anymore, but my son's really, but my son's in three bands. Oh, wow. So he's really involved in that. But I still love the whole culture. Yeah, it almost seemed like there's some correlation there between like the intensity, right? Of that and MMA. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's like, it's almost like when the pedal is pressed all the way down in a car and you're going at that. Like there's that. I was actually really surprised when I started reference, you know, events that were on TV, that how many guys at the hardcore scene were into MMA and, you know, knew like, you know, the events and stuff. There is a connection, you know, with Chajitsu and hardcore teams, a lot of guys roll, but with, you know, with UFC, with all that stuff, like, you know, all they knew everything about it. I was pretty surprised, but it makes sense. Yeah, it does. What happens when your health becomes the punchline? That's where we're at. 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Get your free quote at ethos.com slash T-H-E-O. That's E-T-H-O-S dot com slash Theo. Application times may vary, rates may vary. Where'd you take your wife on Y'all It Kills first date? Do you remember? I think we went to the diner. Yeah. Something like that, yeah, cheese fries or something. That's what I'm talking about. I don't think it about sometimes fancy dates. I'm about to cheese fry a woman and see what happens. I need a wife with a brown gravy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Was she in a band or was she like? She wasn't in a band, just, you know, like, she liked ska music. Oh yeah. And back then in Long Island, bands would play, hardcore bands and ska bands would play on the same bill. And then she just ended up being a big fan of hardcore music too. What differentiates ska? ska's got the definition, but ska's got saxophones and stuff in the horn section. Hmm, usually. I never really thought about that. I've always wondered, ska music is a lively genre originated in Jamaica in the 1950s, blending elements of Caribbean, Calypso, American jazz and rhythm and blues. A walking bass line with strong accents on the offbeat played by guitar, piano known as the Skank, fast tempos and energetic melodies. Let me see. In Jamaica, ska was popular among working class rude boys. Rude boy! While in the UK, skinheads adopted the genre during the two tone era as a form of working class solidarity. Ah, it's pretty cool. How long have you guys been married now? Is it your... 23 years. What's been the key to a long marriage do you feel like? Like, how's that been? How's that road been? Awesome. Hold that part, amazing. Marriage kids, I love, that's my number one thing. And it's been good. I would lie, you know, lie, say easy, but good and good, real good. You think you chose a good partner? Oh yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. What makes her pretty great, do you feel like? I don't know. I guess the smart answer would be everything, but... Yeah. But she's Italian? She's Argentinian and Italian. Ooh, yeah, boy. Keep you on your toes. Yeah, yeah, she definitely is. And yeah, you know, as far as like us parenting together and stuff like that, it's just perfectly like very good, works out really good. You know, like certain things I'm good at, help her, certain things she's good at helps me. Mostly what she's good at helps me. She keeps it definitely going. She's the one that keeps it going, yeah. Buy a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, man. A lot. What was it like when you guys decided to have kids? Was that like a scary choice or was it something you guys were just both excited about? Was it scary for you kind of to become a dad? Like what was your relationship with your dad like? I'm good, both of my parents, good. But yeah, I don't think I was nervous. I do know like when our first summer's born, I kind of looked and it was like real deal now, right? You're like holding them. Like, this guy depends on me for everything, like everything. So you're like, I gotta get it together. I gotta make sure, you know, I had it together, but I gotta make sure that I do this right. And you know, obviously just like we said before, you make mistakes with things, but like my goal is to, you know, raise dad, three kids and you know, raising them to be good people without having to try, if that makes any sense. You know, like guys like us, but like, oh, we're trying to do the right thing. I want my kids to just be able to do the right thing without having to try, which is probably impossible. But if you shoot for that goal, you know, this is good. You know, it's a good thing. Yeah. So yeah, I don't have any experience parenting, but I think it's something that I start to look forward to more and more. And I do think it's something that like, kind of gets you into a new phase of life, right? Like, Oh yeah, definitely. I feel like I've been in the same phase of life sometimes for a while, kind of like, but I don't have another phase yet. You know, it's like, I don't have a wife or family yet. You know, sometimes the people will be like, dude, you got to grow up. And I'm like, to what do, like what? What do you want me to just go sit in a like rock and try something like, what do you want me to do? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, definitely not. I want to enjoy my life. Even with my kids, there's been different. Like my 23 year old is like really into the art course. And because when he was born, I was still very into that, still played shows, still, you know, they, you know, went to shows, my friends would come over. That's all we would play in the backyard for barbecues. So like he's really into that. And then, you know, my daughter, it's wrestling, wrestling, wrestling. Oh, she loves it. Yeah. And because by the time, you know, she was getting older, she's 19 and she was getting older. That's what my older guy was doing. We were into wrestling things. So, and then I, you know, my 14 year old is wrestling, wrestling and skateboarding. He's into skateboarding. So, and I, it's pretty good. But, there's your children right there. Yeah, that's them. Let's go. Key. That's awesome. That's my song with the rancid shirt on. And that's his girlfriend. That's my youngest one and my daughter's at the end. Dude, congratulations, bro. That's so cool, man. That's cool. That's so cool. Yeah. There's something just special about that, about seeing a man in his family, you know. You look like you've lost weight since then. Yeah, I've lost a good amount of weight. Have you? Are you taking the peptides? No, I just stopped eating horribly and I'm running every day and just, you know, like I wasn't eating well. I don't think so. What were you eating? Everything. So, everything. Did you have one snack like a night? What was that snack that got you at night? Like three gallons of ice cream or something. Like I was eating a lot. Really? Like, I guess it was gradual so people didn't realize, but I'm not the biggest guy in the world. And I weighed like 186 pounds. It's a lot. And so I slowly, you know, even though since I've been losing the weight, people are always sick or he lost too much weight or whatever, but you can never make people happy. You're fat, you're skinny, you're short, which I can't make myself taller. So I don't understand that comment. Yeah, get taller, you f***ing idiot. Whatever you're like. Yeah, it's like. What do you mean? They need me here. I'm closer to the fight. Yeah, you have a big head. Oh, no. I didn't choose to have a big head. So, let me get this nail file. So like things, but I feel good. I love that I've lost the weight. You know, I'm trying to put some muscle on. Did you have a health scare or anything like that? No, I wanted to be healthy. A few things were going and not so much with me, but around me. And I was like, you know, I want to make sure I'm healthier. What do you mean? Like a few things are going like a few people passed away. Oh, you saw you saw people having the effects of not being healthy. Yeah. And just, you know, even, you know, some of them healthy, but just, I guess not lucky. So I'm like, got to give yourself the best chance, right? Yes. Sometimes you got to meet God halfway, you know? Yeah. It's never going to be perfect. But, you know, like I saw this barbecue place where I am. I'm I'm eating some fried alligator later. For sure. For sure. Hell, yeah. Yeah, they got some good stuff around here, man. The food scene has been getting better here in Nashville as the city has been growing too. What about like, did you ever, did you struggle over the years with any addiction stuff or did you drink? No, I well, I drank, but I wasn't necessarily like struggle in addiction. Can you remember if you told me that one time? Yeah, I don't I don't drink anymore, really. But I never never really even tried drugs. It was never kind of I wrestled all the way through school. That'll keep you clean. And, you know, so I wasn't the greatest ever, but I was really into it. And and, you know, kind of kept me whatever. I was wild enough without drugs. You're a drug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something already in there. You know what I mean? Yeah, you already got half a grip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm stuck in the back. Yeah, never was never tried to. Wow. That's wow. Because I think people would look at you and probably think something like that. Probably, I guess. And people, I mean, me too. Yeah. I thought it in the music scene that I'm in. A lot of guys just, you know. Probably you would think, oh, that guy's on drugs, but they just on whatever. That's what who they are. So but I guess that, you know, even these days of tattoos and stuff, you would think, oh, that guy's but they're. Are you fully tattooed? What are you? I have sleeves, you know, sleeves and my back's almost done and stuff like that. Wow. I would ever for some reason I got my hands in my neck like real fast. I was young, though, like 22. Oh, OK. So these have been there for a while. Yeah, yeah. I don't dislike them or anything. Yeah. No, it's cool. It's definitely an energy. I mean, you seem like, you know, like, yeah, you're like, you're you're to know nonsense guys. So it's like, you know, you I think you kind of look a little bit like there's not a lot of nonsense allowed here. Yeah, I guess. So it's kind of wild that you almost grew into that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You kind of met you kind of lived your life and then met that name right. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah. That's it. Like, you know, I kind of mind my own business. I always have, you know, I'm always, you know, and it just like, you know, I treat people the way that I want to be treated, which most of the time is left alone. Right. I'm nice to, you know, I'm nice to kids, old people and animals. Keep moving on. Yeah. What else can you ask out of a citizen? That's it, right? Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah, I'd love to see you working at a pet and zoo or something like that, dude, being like the operator or something. I could have seen you working at like whenever like the carnival would come to town when I was a kid. Yeah. I would definitely probably be a good carny, right? Yeah, but only on the like the ride. It was the Gravitron where they had to do the middle. So I love that. Yes, I love that ride. So I have to drive it. Stop. They would spin that thing in awesome Gravitron story. It was it was actually I know the date. It was April 19th, 1985. This place in local near me. It's called Aventureland and they had Gravitron and the Van Halen album. 51 50 just came out and they played that song. Why can't this be love? Like a hundred times me and my brother went on it like 80 times in a row and we just kept going. And then like I would find I was. Yeah, it was it was my ninth birthday, I think. And it was for my birthday. That's why I remember the date. And the like you'd go and then have the rules, right? Of every single thing and like every single one, I'd break one of them. My brother would be like, stop, stop, stop, but kick off my shoe when I come back at you. You know, I remember that. That's crazy. The Gravitron was like my favorite. Fuck yeah, dude. And that was like where because that's dude at that time period, like when we would go, yeah, I was like 11 12 or something like that. And you get in there and the dude who ran it would be like this kind of like like a guy that shouldn't be running. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like, dude, somebody who dropped this guy here. You're hired. Yeah. And it almost looked like this. This thing came from like outer space. Yeah. Get in. They built it around them. Yes. And the ramp would close up and it would be this dude who kind of looked like slash from guns and roses. And and then and it would you'd slide up against that one. You couldn't even like you could barely even move. But every now and then you could like get your arm out and like just put it on your foot. You went on to more of your body got like used to it. You go upside down and it's, you know, and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. I know people got used to it sideways. Oh, look at that. Yeah. Like standing there. Yeah. That's pretty brave there. See, I'm the other one. See the one where the guy's facing the facing the wall. Get me out of here. Yeah. The dude who would try to turn over and just didn't have enough energy to get back over that would be me. Just humping the edge of the Gravitron. Bodies like split. Dude, that shit was cool, though. There was just something. That guy looks like a normal guy there. Amazing. I'd run in it there. Yeah. That guy's an op, dude. That guy's not fucking real, dude. That guy's a nark, probably. But but dude, that shit was so much. The whole idea of they're not spinning and you're spinning would always like got me. Like I would always like X for explanation. Like he looks like he's spinning too. Yeah. He's not. Dude, did you have who influenced that music in you when you were a kid? Because I remember like my brother would listen to like Dio lock up the walls. Yeah, he would listen to some like like skinny puppy. Maybe I think was a band as well. Like nothing too crazy, but like kind of a little bit of mainstream edge. Yeah, skinny puppies. Yeah. Good. The you know, the metal stuff, like I kind of like just grab it, you know, like sort and was like, I don't think guys would like that cut off sleeves and long hair, even though I've never had long hair. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Some in the front, like in the mid 90s, I had like that skater hair thing. But somebody make us a couple of put together a few memes of somebody out there who knows how to do it of of of no nonsense with some long hair. Just we just so we have them for the future. Let's we'll throw a couple of them in or we'll put this clip online and put a couple of men. I'd love to just see that. Yeah, dude, I can't believe it. Even try it. Yeah. No. And then just that whole and then like my brother, as he was going, he started listening to like the different metal but like Van Halen and, you know, stuff like that. So we kind of got Maltley Crue. Like my first ever concert was poison. I went with my brother. He was a few years older. So I went and then my second one was Maltley Crue. Oh, dude, that's so sick, bro. On the Dr. Phil Good tour. Yeah, we've had time on here. Awesome. Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. So that that tour he played like up on the ceiling. And he just like did like even I think it was like AC, DC, like cover songs and just like went across the ceiling. It's pretty cool. And your brother took you to that. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys were pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Does he play music? No, he actually passed away like a year and a half ago. Oh, man. Yeah. Young at like 50. Oh, so yeah. But what was he? Was he suffering from something? No, he had. He had a tumors, but he he didn't know or didn't take care of, I'm not sure which one, but he. So he went to the hospital on a Tuesday. He died on a Friday. So it was real fast, real fast. So did you get to see him in between? I was there the whole time. You were. Oh, man. Yeah. So yeah. What was that like? I mean, I hate to ask you that. Not good. Yeah. Sorry. So no, it's all right. It's not the most thoughtful question. No, I'm sorry. That happened, man. Yeah. But so I bet he was super proud of you. Huh? Yeah. So how yeah. So how things work is like this stuff's going to happen to all of us, unfortunately. Yeah. Bad stuff. Right. So the way I feel is how are you going to handle those moments? So I believe at that moment when there was handled as perfect as it possibly could. What makes you say that? Well, you know, in a room of people, the room was full of people he loved and they loved him. You know, he he wasn't married. He didn't have kids. So my kids were like his kids. And so they're surrounded, you know, surrounded by his parents and just as good as that could happen. You know what I mean? And so. You know, I don't know. Like my brother was the nervous guy. He didn't seem nervous at that point. So I don't know, you know, and yeah, that's yeah. Much as weird. That's kind of interesting. I'll probably be crying like a baby. But yeah, he ended up, you know, the world is kind of nerve wracking. You know, you think about it. Yeah. So that's how like he was always nervous and I never was nervous about anything. And when we were kids, he'd cross in the street, I'd run and he'd be screaming. Yeah, so we were really, really, really close. It was like me and him, my my mom worked most of the time, two jobs and stuff. So it was me and him and we were total opposite. Like even growing up, like I got into like the metal music first. He would listen to like cultural club and like Tears for Fears. Just different. Then he got into rock and roll stuff. And but, you know, he he he was a comedian. He was in school. He was in the drama club and stuff, and I was in sports. So we were totally different, but like the same, I guess. Did you kind of feel like his protector sometimes in some ways? Well, he was older than me. But yeah, I was definitely and you know, was that gritty brother who's. Yeah, I was definitely that. Yeah. But. It was weird how we balanced it. Like he, as I said, he was nervous and had major anxiety, but like. We were so different. It just but it fit like. Perfect. Like, like our relationship was like good. Yeah, really good. Yeah. Yeah. What was his name? Rob. Rob. Yeah. Nice, man. Rob Peterson. Yes, sir. Oh, well. Hello, Rob. Nice to meet you through your brother. Um, and hope you guys are having a good time out there, wherever you are. Whatever you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Did he get to come see you referee? Oh, he never saw me referee. Actually, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess a lot of times you don't go watch somebody work. Yeah. But he came to see me fight. I actually have a pretty funny. So I was fighting for her title, amateur title in, um, in Atlantic City. And him and his buddy. Was this one of your biggest fights? Yeah, it was like my, I think it was my first amateur title fight. So it was a big deal. And it was actually, no, I was actually. Defending it. I took a fight on short notice, uh, a bumped up a weight and I lost. So now I was fighting the same kid, but at our weight for the title, he was going to take my title, whatever. So. My brother and his buddies come and I guess they're doing their thing pretty early and they're going, you know, uh, Atlantic City and having fun. And then I come and as I say, he's a really nervous guy and. He's standing in like the, uh, the hall, but the cages right there. And he's like staring at the cage and he looks like he's sweating. And I said to him, I'm like, yo, what's up, Robbie? And I'm right behind him. And he's like, oh my God, you know, fighting and, you know, you're getting older. You have kids and whatever. And the ring girls walk by and I go, Hey, Robbie, you see the ring girls? He goes, he goes, I'm not that nervous. Of course I've seen the ring girls. It was pretty funny. So I go, I'm going blind. It was pretty funny. And then I won the fight. We went out. It was a really good, uh, great night too. I remember being really, really awesome. So you had an amateur belt. A few. Yeah. A few. I, um, I won that one. Did you have a nickname when you were a fighter then? Shortly the Spartan. Yeah. So like we were watching 300 or something and someone said something like, cause he, you know, he was just fighting, hanging out with his wife and playing with his kids and they're like, Oh, that's kind of like you. I was like, Oh, go with that. Spartan. But yeah. Yeah. I saw where you fought one guy three times. Yeah. Jose Villanueva. Yeah. What was that? Was that because that was like a trilogy, I guess. Yeah. What did that feel like? Was that part of that same thing? Yeah, that was part of it. Yeah. So you guys were one, one. But he ended up winning two. He went to we bumped, we went back up a week and you, you want to, did you feel like you could go back up? You're like, I got him here. I can go back up there and get him. Or what was that? What was that like? I don't know. I can't remember. I'm trying to think like I think back then. Did you have something against the guy? I don't know. But I think back then, you know, it was still kind of the amateur seems just kind of growing and with him and me. And yeah. And he, he was good. And I was good and he was competitive. So we went, you know, probably, you know, I was trying to fight some other guys in between. So I was kickboxing, fighting Muay Thai fights too. But, uh, no, nothing against him. I actually ref them a bunch of times after. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is part of that bout. Yeah. I think this is the one. So this is the one I bumped up and I fought on three days. No, I was the first one. I lose this one. Yeah. Keith, that's dope, bro. You're in there. It's weird that the ones I went on on here, but, and that's the guy that Donny Caroline, that's him. That's the referee. Yeah. That's the guy who got me into refing. Wow. That's cool. My first, yeah. My first. That's good defense right there, man. Yeah. I know I wrestled a little bit, but my first, I think he does take me down, but I pop up and basically what happened is. Oh, look at that, bro. Go back. Let's see a little bit of that fricking. Yeah. You were a little bit. You were loving that shit, huh? What happens is I miss a backfist, but I think if I hit it, he'd probably still be asleep, but I miss it and kind of get slammed on my head and move on from there. He's good. He submits me. That's cool, man. Yeah. Those fights were good. They were fun and he was a good guy. And as I said, I ref him after and even in his pro career. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, it's cool that you ref him after and that the referee is the guy that got you. Yeah. It's just a lot of connections. It's so amazing, man, about life. If you're able to stay kind of as you're saying healthy enough, right? If you're able to take care of yourself mentally enough to stay, you don't have to stay in the center lane. You can veer off a little bit, but if you're able to stay so many of the pieces of our past kind of really connect and make a and make the future make sense. For sure. That definitely I've had in the last couple of years, I've had so many moments like that. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyone that stands out. Oh, well, so my first couple of years in high school, I didn't do so well. And I ended up doing pretty well. Like, what do you mean didn't do so well? Like in school? In school? Yeah. So did you not like it? Um, yeah, I guess. And like ninth grade, I didn't really do very good. People were like, were like, were you like fighting with other kids? Not so much, you know, back then kids fought more often than they do now for sure. But I just didn't, you know, I guess the whole punk rock feel like not listening to authority, yeah, something like that. But, um, so I didn't do so well and I went to East Middlet High School, didn't do so well there. And then, uh, you know, I ended up going a few different high schools. We moved a bunch of times. And, um, so it didn't end well. And then, um, did you graduate? No, I graduated. I graduated high school. I went to college for a year and then I started as I'm a diesel mechanic for town I live in. I've been there 28 years. Are you still a diesel mechanic? Yeah. Yeah. Are you in the union? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. What union you in? Um, now we, uh, you ask me, we change a lot, but when I first started there, we were teamsters. That was pretty cool. I thought the idea of being a teamster was cool, but yeah, we had Chono O'Brien and he worked with the teamsters. Um, he was teamsters president. I'm not sure if he still is. Yeah. Um, but so we've learned a little bit about unions over the years. I didn't know anything about him until we had him in, you know? Yeah, that's the whole union jobs. Awesome. I was able, I'm able to do what I do and stuff that I want to do. And branch out. Wow. So you've been a diesel mechanic this whole time. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you get into that? Uh, I decided college wasn't for me. My dad's like, well, working is get a good job. So, um, got a job like back then when you left college, you off your parents benefits right after that. It wasn't like now where it's to 26. So I, I needed a job. I was roofing and, uh, I think I broke a rib or something. And I, you know, my dad was like, you need a job with, you know, insurance and, and if you get hurt, you know, you get paid. And so, uh, I found this town job and I started a highway for a little while, like nine months. And then I got into the mechanic shop and that was that. You started working on the highway. Yeah. So like, you know, mowing the lawns and stuff in the highway. Oh, wow. You've ever found anything cool out there? No. Damn. Garbage that you have to pick up. That's it. I always want to find a body out there. So like a dead body. My Long Island has a bunch of them on the side of highways, but yeah. Or semi-living. I'll find, you know what I'm saying? I'm, I hope they're alive, but yeah. I could totally be fine with not finding a dead body. Yeah. Definitely. I'm good. Yeah. Tomato, tomato, you know, a body part or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Foot. Just a thumbs up. Yeah. Thumbs up. That'd be kind of cool. Yeah. Sounds like you're finding an emoji. Yeah. Just like that. That'd be cool. Sean O'Brien is still the general president of the international brotherhood of Teamsters as of October 2025. Um, did you, uh, did you have a mentor that taught you how to, be a diesel mechanic or how to do it? No, kind of like on the job learning. I didn't have, you know, the older guys I had that were really good. And, uh, kind of like if, you know, if I, you know, if I can't fix it, I could break it even more, you know, just keep going. And then from there, you know. And did you teach your kids any of those kind of skills or? Yeah. A little bit, you know, what, like the normal skills, like, you know, like I actually, you know, there's kids that don't know how to change a flat tire these days. I've had a few that my kids know how to change flat tires and my daughter knows how to change flat tire, you know, stuff like that. And, um, my younger guy is the one that seems to be the, the one that's going to be working with his hands. My older guy's a chef, but, uh, so he works for his hands just differently. Um, but I hope his hands aren't dirty when he's working. But, uh, yeah, my younger guy seems to be, you know, maybe do some, uh, mechanic program moving forward. You're eating French fries at the beach and you want to take a quick dip in the ocean. So you ask a seagull to watch your lunch. That's not security. That's catering for the seagull. There's a reason you wouldn't trust a seagull with your fries. 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And I think a few months into being sanctioned, they had a show. UFC 101 in Philadelphia. And you went to the fight and I know I worked. Did I ref that one? That's my first one was one on one. And bring that up, bring that card up. I ref the first two fights. Wow. What was that like that first day? I mean, did you have your own like kind of green room? Was it a little bit different? What was that? Just normal. But you had to be so excited. But how did you get it? I'm actually so excited. I didn't even know how to get in. So I never I've never gone to a venue without a ticket. Right. So I didn't. And I didn't ask them. I didn't ask what I needed. And I got there and realized how do I get in? So now I know you have to have your credential, obviously. So, you know, and I ended up getting it. But now I know how that works. But you just try to come into the ticket. I know I just got there and I was in the park a lot and was like, how am I getting in? I don't have a ticket. Yeah. So, yeah. So that was, you know, 2009. So who were the other referees? Do you remember on the card? Maybe the same guys as now. There's some I think some were still now. Maybe Mark Goddard. Yeah. Yes. Actually, I believe that was Mark Goddard's first time refing in the States, I believe. Or are you seeing the states or something like that? Wow. So yes, he was on that card. B.J. Penn. Wow, that's amazing. Dude, that's Forrest Griffin. Yeah. It was Anderson Silver versus Forrest Griffin. So it was a while now, I guess, right? Yeah. Was there a fighter that you refed for early before he got to the UFC that you saw like in amateurs and stuff? Yeah, a bunch of them, like Paul Felder. Yeah, Paul's the best. Yeah, he's fearless. It's awesome. Could you tell them when you were seeing Paul then? Yeah, he's different level. Al Quinta, different level, tough. Yeah. I think there's been a good amount over the years that you see in the local stuff and you ref and then and then you ref them in the UFC, which is pretty cool. That's pretty cool, man. For them and for me. Yeah, for sure. Like for them that they're there, not that I'm there. I don't think they really care about that. But yeah, for me, it's like, wow. Yeah, I'm a part of something. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're all in this journey. We're all on the same journey in a way. Yeah, as I said, you know, it's like, besides, you know, my family stuff, it's the most important thing that I'm going to end up doing. You know, and to see, you know, think about it, you ref them in the, you know, the local scene and they're healthy enough to get there. Right. And, you know, you think, you know, you have something to do with that. You know, that's a good point. You know, so. Was there ever a fighter that you remember that stood out that something happened in Amateurs and they didn't make it like someone that really stood out over there? There's a lot of ones that you would say, oh, this guy is going to be. And they don't, you know, it's a tough sport. All right. So and. Anyone that comes to mind that kind of liked that you. Not particularly name-wise, but there's been guys where you go, wow, you know, this guy's the limit and then they just, you know, for whatever injury or it's hard, you know, like we were saying, you talk about having kids and stuff. I think, you know, once you start having kids and stuff, the guys that have these families and they train like that, you know, it's dedication that takes and sacrifice like a lot and women, you know, who do the same. Like the men and women who do that, it takes a lot, a lot to do. So, you know, at that level. Yeah. Oh, when you see a guy going away, like to a camp for six weeks, eight weeks, 10 weeks to get ready. And a lot of times they're going to be away from their family. Maybe their family will come and visit on the weekends and stuff because, you know, there's there's there's only a few places in America where it's like kind of premier training. And then you could go into the bout and losing the first round or, you know, it's like it could end in 30 seconds. Yeah. That's like training for the Olympics. You know, taking last, right? You cannot train at all. Take last training for your whole life. You know, so that's what makes it, you know, cool on the way to. Oh, that's the that's why I like when I go to the fights and, you know, I like to go early, I just because I'm like, this is like this is their life. Right. Yeah, I noticed that you're getting a witness, a piece of somebody's life. Like they they they mean this. Ninety if they're at that level, they mean this so much that to even be in the presence of something like that, I think gives me energy. It's like I'm showing up to watch an eclipse, almost something so rare, you know. Yeah. Um, or they're fighters when they come in the ring, like, you know, Alex Perera has that energy when you're in there, when he comes in, like when I'm in there as a fan and there is a unique energy like that pentameter of the. I would say, yeah, there's definitely fighters with any that you feel the energy. Are there some like what are some that you would even name? Like are there some that doesn't. Yeah, poor people are excited. Yeah. The people energy his own energy. Yeah, just can feel it. Um, that's interesting. And, uh, like, Clay Gleed, I always win or lose that energy is just so. Yeah. You see him. You just get excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the energy and it's coming off of them. You can feel it and that he wants to be there, you know, like, wow. Yeah. But, um, yeah, there's a lot of fighters that you just get that really, that energy from and then when you get it from both at the same time, that's where you really, you just fire and off, right? Yeah. Is it, is it tougher to referee some of the, um, the bigger fighters? What is it because of their body shape? Like when they're like, is there, is there a weight class that's a little bit tougher or different that you have to adjust how you do or where you place yourself? I don't know about tougher or different. Like the smaller guys are faster, the bigger guys are stronger, right? And it's just, I'll just write, uh, physics, I guess. Um, so you just, you know, make sure you're fast enough for the faster guys and you're in the right position for the, the bigger guys. Um, I don't, I don't like have a preference. Um, I can riff whatever you want to be in the right position and, you know, the listen to your commands and, you know, cause people do ask like, Oh, how would you stop them? And same way you'd stop, you know, small or small guy or, you know, so. And they always all honor the referee for the most part. The most part. You know, cause that's part of the code of, yeah, you give respect. You get respect. So, you know, yeah, the level of respect that's in that ring is pretty amazing too. I feel like. Yeah. I think people would be surprised. Definitely. Um, how like, you know, respectful fighters are to, to me, I put the, you know, I can't really speak for anyone, but to me and, um, you know, obviously, you're not going to always agree, but for the most part, uh, for the very, very most part, um, very respectful. Have you ever been at a fight where, uh, someone passed away in the ring or there was something that tragic that happened? No. Wow. That's, that's amazing, man. Yeah. That's a blessing. A lot of fights. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you've afraid thousands of fights. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Definitely a lot of them. Yeah. Is there anything different about referring a male fight to a female fight? No. I, I, you know, uh, I've been lucky to get some of the best female fights ever. And, um, I, there's really no difference. Um, you know, it's, you know, pretty amazing the level that they've grown so quickly. For sure. And, and, and, and female sports in general, if we, you know, talk about, you know, women's wrestling, like last year I went to the, um, NAIA, uh, women's nationals and your daughter was in it. Yeah. Oh, she was. Yeah. She'd won the regional last year. Let's go. And, uh, the level of competition was insane. Really? You know, she fell short at the first year last year. So, uh, we'll see how this year goes. But, uh, but, um, the level and these, you know, they're like the knock girls, they were 26 year old women in college. Oh, it's a good point. There's some real tough women out there. So, uh, it was, it was amazing. It was, uh, although I wish she, she had, uh, won a few matches. Me and her sitting there watching that level together was, you know, two days. It was in, uh, Kansas. And, uh, I was kind of at the end, I'm kind of happy. She didn't do that well because we were able to go out for lunch and dinner and hang out. Yeah. So, but, um, Oh, that's nice. This year is a new year and we'll see how she does. And she really loves it, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my kids really love wrestling and, uh, there's such a great value in that. There's such a great sense of like, you can take care of yourself. Then you can handle yourself, I bet. There is. It's just, uh, there's more like wrestling's the best sport, uh, you know, that you could do in high school level and well, youth level to college level. Um, oh, wrestlers will always be the craziest too. You'd like, you'd just be driving one day and you'd see your buddy wrapped in trash bags, right? It's like 90 degrees out in Louisiana. My buddy Paul Corso would be like, and I think it's his birthday actually today or tomorrow, but wrapped in trash bags, just running down the highways. Like, I had a fight in two hours. You're like, who are you fighting? You're fighting off Satan brother. That's wild. Yeah. But same as what we were talking about with that commitment to write commitment, right? And then it carries on to almost anything. And also like, um, you know, uh, like when you're wrestling and you feel defeat, right? Like you're learning life lessons on a wrestling mat. Instead of having to learn it outside world where, where the, you know, the cost sometimes is a little more. So you're learning it just by, you know, you know, training and stepping on a wrestling mat, there's not, you know, it's not better than that. Um, when I was going to MMA classes, I remember there would be like days where like, even after like, I'd sit there at the end of the day and sometimes I was just like, oh, I just emotions would come out of me. But it was stuff that got unlocked that had been in my muscles or in my fascia in me. And it was like, um, the ability to be able to be, uh, like beaten by somebody that also cares that you're going to be okay at the same time. There's something really fascinating about that. And I don't think you can find it any other place, right? Like, you know, your competitor also, they want to beat you. But they also, some of them want to teach you, especially if you're new. It's just like there's, it's unprecedented, the different levels of, um, well being and competition and, uh, ferociousness and defeat that are all wrapped up in there. Yeah. And bonds can be made that way. Like, we, I saw all the cops are cause all of them are off duty. You know, they're all in there. And I saw a few guys that I used to train with and, um, mostly in the stand up stuff and, um, you know, buckets of blood, we would really go hard. But a lot of people would come and be like, what the hell? Right. It was my early training and I just got bonds with those guys forever. You know, seeing them is great. And, and we laugh about that. Cause I don't know, it's probably pretty hard. Yeah. So it was good. That's good. Did you ever think that a fighter threw a fight or had given up but kept fighting? What is that kind of energy like? How do you manage something like that? And how do you decide if it's just you interjecting some of your own thoughts into what's going on? Can you take me on even just some journeys about some of that? So like, you know, what, like if a guy is giving up or. Yeah. Like, do you ever think a guy doesn't want to be in there, but he's staying in there? Like, do you ever get some of that energy? Yeah. It's, it's kind of the sport where if you don't want to be in there, most likely you're not going to be for very long. Right. So like I have seen guys that it's not going very well. And you can tell they definitely want to be there. Right. That's a little easier to see. I think definitely. But, um, yeah, I guess it's a good point, huh? Yeah. Usually if you don't want to be there at some point, you're not going to be there pretty quick and you can see, you know, guys get surprised or, you know, overwhelmed and for that moment, you know, live to fight another day and whatever. And but usually like if a guy, you know, they, you know, you're stopping them, they're not stopping themselves for the most part. Have you ever had a guy stop himself or their corner stop him? What's some of that? I have like amateurs. So like I had a kid walk out of the cage and leave the other day. One for him. Good choice. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't, wasn't for him. And I was amateur. So like good decision. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck yeah. They'll get a smoothie. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. See you later. I was like, all right. I waved it off and they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, once you leave, it's over. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be crazy. He comes back in. His mom's like walking back in with him or something or his buddies. One time. Um, it was my buddy and he knocked this guy out and and somehow his mom got in and you thought she was going to kneel down and and to see 10 to her son. But the doctors were there. He was being taken care of. She stepped over and gave him the finger. He gave my buddy the finger. It's crazy. I remember it. There was many years ago, but I remember because AC DC Thunderstruck was being played and the mom's giving the kid the finger. It was pretty awesome. Oh, it's epic. Yeah. Yeah. Have there been some other instances that have happened at the end of the match where what's that like? Cause that's a lot of energy. People are coming into the ring. You still have fighters that are down sometimes. Obviously that was years and years ago. And so now it's, you know, um, only the right personnel coming coming in. But, um, this, you know, I said I was I fought on that card that woman. So that was a long time ago. But, um, you know, it could be pretty crazy, you know, especially like the higher, you know, the event and loud and stuff. And then when the fight ends, sometimes it's just like that. It is. Yeah. It's just like, like, you know, so that's crazy. And the more over the years, the more you work, the more the sounds kind of some you hear, some you don't, um, like I can pinpoint someone's voice. And then other, you know, there's thousands of people screaming. Yeah. It's crazy that it can be dead quiet in there with so many people in there sometimes and sometimes there'll be certain cheers going on, but it's still like there's this real silence that's right up there by the cage. Like, um, it's almost eerie in a way. It can be. Or mysterious or unique. It's, uh, it's powerful. Yeah. You know, cause there can be like this insane moment at 20,000 people are watching. And it's quiet. Yeah. And then other times it's loud and then cheering and you're like, what are they saying? Sometimes you can't understand what they're saying and stuff like that. And, uh, so it's like up and down, you know, it's pretty crazy. Yes. Like life, man. Yeah. Yeah. Up and down. Yeah. Did you ever suspect that a fighter threw a fight? No. No. Like, no. Like some guys aren't, you know, obviously I ref all different levels. So some guys are coming in and they get punched and they're done, but that's just, you know, they're not throwing it. They just don't have the talent to, uh, but I've never suspected anything like that. What was it like when Connor would come in the ring? Did you do any of his, I didn't know I didn't do any of his fights, but it was crazy. I've, uh, I've been, you know, I've worked cards where he was on and like, uh, Madison Square Garden when he fought the first Madison Square Garden. It was crazy. Yeah. And then even after you went outside and there was, uh, you know, Irish people cheering everywhere. Yeah. Oh yeah. They show up. Yeah. Yeah. They really do. So could you even tell us who you thought the best fighter is that you've seen? I don't know if I, so I stopped looking at fights like a fan a pretty long time ago. Yeah. I kind of don't see him that way. I wouldn't even be able to pick a favorite fighter or say who's the best fighter or anything like that. But, you know, obviously there's fights you're like, wow, that was really exciting or something like that. Yeah. You know, but yeah, I kind of just very look at it at the referee's standpoint these days mostly. Is there, um, a fighter that you feel like plays by the rules the most? Oh, there's a bunch of polite guys who just polite, but for the, for the most part, everyone really plays by the rules. That's a good point. You know, but, you know, it's like, I think a lot of the, a lot of the fouls that, you know, are accidental. Um, you do. Yeah, I do. So, you know, some of it couldn't even, even if you wanted to do it the way, you know, it's such a fast. That's a good point. Like, you know, it'd be hard to strategize something like, yeah. But then you have some guys that are real grindy. And when they're in the cage, they're going to do what they have to do and it is a fight. And, you know, you got to try to control that. Did you get to ref any of Khabib's fights? Nope. So him and Connor, but mostly everyone else put a, yeah. Is there a reason why you think? No, there's no, I don't believe there's a reason why. How do you guys determine what, what fights your referee do you draw out of a hat? No, the commission just gives you, you know, you'll go and you'll get your assignments. So I never really asked exactly what they use. So you and her being are back there like this then? No. Okay. Okay. No. So you come and they give you a sheet and you already have your assignments there. Oh. And is it almost like opening up like a Christmas wish list? Like in some ways, like are there some you're excited about? Like are there some actually you're happy you don't have to, so you can sit and watch it? Um, or do you even think of it like that? That's like a fan thinking of it. Yeah, I do sometimes and this sounds maybe a bit like if I'm like, oh, wow, that fight would be hard. I kind of hope I get it to see if, you know, if I figure I do it, you know, and, and, uh, and what would determine if I, if I would be kind of far like what do you mean? In your head makes you think of that? Or what makes some fights hard? The others. Yeah. Well, some matchups and, and, you know, things are like, oh, this guy's really, uh, has one knockout power and this guy's really great on the ground. But, you know, it's not very good at taking them down. So then, you know, you, you're right. So you don't know what you're going to get. And I think that's what would make it harder or not complicated, but interesting. But so let's get rid of the word harder, but interesting. For sure. Yeah. I think it's so interesting how so many fighters have different reasons why they fight, you know, like some is to test themselves. Some don't even know some is to get rid of anger, you know, to challenge. Um, some just love the violence, you know, I just think it's, it's pretty fascinating to see how many, uh, why guys do it. Yeah. Different, you know, from different roads, right? Yeah. And everyone, uh, yeah. You coach, um, and we can wrap up in a few minutes. Thank you so much, man. This has been cool. I appreciate it. You know, it's like, I get to go sometimes to the fights and get to see you guys there. And it's like, um, you know, it's almost like, I mean, you guys are kind of like celebrities in that fighting world. I mean, that, that world has built so big that I mean, the referees are. Yeah, I don't, that sometimes it's like, oh, you know, but you still have to have people that are excited to see you. There is, but, uh, you know, it's crazy. Yeah, it is because it's definitely not about, you know, me, of course, but there's, there's not, there's not a lot of other sports. I don't think, um, what's that been like? What's it like being a, like a part of something that's changed? Like, have you noticed the changes over time? Have you noticed a different energy in the space? Have you like, have you noticed that fighters change? What have you, what have you noticed? Well, it, you know, obviously it's still young sport, right? And, and it's growing and growing. Um, not only like, so I think it was 2009 was my first year. So not only has that all changed, but people have changed since 2009. So we have fighters are different because people are different. And, you know, and now we have like, oh, the internet is even bigger and, and all that stuff and, you know, so yeah, a lot of things have changed, but the concept is there, right? Put two people in there and they fight. And so that's the same. Um, fighters like end up the same. Like, you know, even though times are different, like eventually, like, you'll, you'll even me talking to one, you know, they're there for one goal and, and, and, you know, to be competitive. And that's always stayed the same. Yeah. Yeah. Um, was there ever like a fighter that retired in the ring? Cause you know, a lot of times they'll lay their gloves down. Was there any, any moment, one of those that kind of stood out to you or? I'm trying to think. Just one that even caught your own feelings. I believe, uh, I believe I, I might be wrong, but, um, I believe Coy Guida retired the last time I ref him, I think. So that would be pretty significant cause I've left him up a few times and, and, um, and he's, you know, awesome. Um, so I believe, and there's probably been others too that they've retired after, after, uh, after I've left them, but those are always like, and some of them, you can feel common, right? And then some, you can't, it happens in wrestling too. They'll take off their shoes and they leave it in the center and, and, and sometimes you're like, oh yeah, makes sense. And a lot of times like, I, you know, you got more to give and more to go. But as we said, you know, the amount of time that stuff takes. Yeah. You spend time now coaching your daughters. Yeah. So my, my daughter, yeah. So I, my daughter and I, is this her school? Um, this was her high school. So I coach for the, well, she went, this is the team she wrestled for. So we have in our area. So we have one school, which is Bayshore that has the girls wrestling team. And then the other schools, which she went to isolate all go there. So I coach the Bayshore, I'm the assistant coach at the Bayshore girls team. And then me and my daughter run a club together called Empire Girls Wrestling together. So, and right now that's growing like the whole sports growing. It's amazing. It's great that girls get the opportunity to be what I believe is the best sport. And, um, it's awesome. Yeah. And then coaching with my daughter right now is really, she's very good. She, uh, she actually coached at, um, which is a big thing for us at, uh, the national team, New York national team at Fargo this year, it was her first year coach in there. Wow. And she did really well. And, uh, she's going to be an awesome coach. He's dynamite. Huh? Yeah. What's her name? Uh, Mora. Mora. Oh, it's a pretty name, man. Wow. That's cool, man. Oh, there you go. Look at that. That was, yeah. So this was really cool. How much nonsense does Mora allow? Uh, not much either. Yeah, there's not much going on. Not much nonsense. Um, this was, um, uh, August, um, the end of August, it was the New York state fair. And they invited us and we brought a girl's team and a boys team. And we, uh, the boys and the girls stay in like, uh, four age storms. So they get the state fair for free. The kids get to walk around and do all that. It was really cool. And then they wrestled us for the people watching. Yeah. And then, yeah. So all those people just walking by the state fair, watching the do me. Dude, that's great entertainment. Why not put something like that in a place where people are already at and looking for entertainment? It was pretty cool. Cause so often sometimes you'll put it in a gym or something. And people don't even know, you know, especially a lot of times in high school or even outside, like in college people, you just don't know. But if you're at a fair, you're looking for entertainment. And there it is. It was really cool. It was our first year doing it. My wife planned it and, um, we got invited and it was really cool. We'll do it again for sure. It was really cool. Wow. Mora. Mora. Mora. M-O-R-A. M-O-R-A. Beautiful young lady. That's awesome, dude. Congratulations. Thanks. I didn't do anything, but. Well, you showed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's for sure. You know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you kept going. Yeah, yeah. You know, we're talking about it today. It's like, yeah, like life has, there's a lot of little off ramps that you can get on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, you got, as we were just talking earlier about things that, you know, you don't think ever gonna happen happens. And you just got to keep going forward. And then, you know, you know, eye on the prize, I guess. Yeah. So, yeah, so I'm lucky, you know, I got all these good things going. Yeah, it seems like you stay really busy. What is your daily routine like kind of? So I start work at the town at 730 to four. At the diesel mechanic? Yeah. And then. That's unbelievable. And then I our practices, well, right now, our practices just end by our practices on there from seven to nine o'clock, on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays and Sundays. And, and then I was starting the high school season. So we have open mats for that too. So, wow. Getting busy. Yeah, that keeps you busy. You like staying busy, huh? Yeah, very. I like to stay busy. I like to, you know, keep moving. Yeah. Yeah, that's me. I don't sit around much and never been much of a sit around like type of guy. So, but, you know, I. Well, too much nonsense can happen. Yeah, but you can still have fun. Yes, true. But you can have like, I'm a pretty serious guy, but I'm like things. I'm good. I'm good at making fun of myself. I'm good at laughing. I know, you know, like I came to see your show. That was funny. Yeah. And I was surprised by cousins were there. They they're huge fans. They had a good time. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they, when they told me they were going to be, I was like, oh, I'm going. And so they're huge fans. And it was, it was good. It was good. Thanks. It was funny. Yeah. I'll accept that. I appreciate that. Hey, you're a referee. You would know, man. Oh, I don't know about it. If I had no comedy, but I'll take it though. Yeah, good enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. I've laughed a few times. Hey, that's that's all we can ask from a guy who doesn't accept nonsense. That's the most we can ask. Oh, is there any other? Oh, are our referees allowed to? Is there like an alcohol rule with referees? Like I know with pilots. Can you look it up for me? How soon before a flight can a pilot have alcohol? Is there a rule with referees that you can or can't drink before a fight? Well, you can't drink before a fight. So I would think it would be like 24 hours or something like that. I had never, you know, but they never it's never like they don't. They're not breathalyzing. No, refs or anything like that. Yeah. But it would be hard to do. So what referee a fight? If somebody been drinking, it would probably be in. Well, it would be impossible like to actual do the actual. Oh, yeah, it would be impossible. But then, you know, you spend. So you're you're in there. You're with doctors, commissions and whatever. And I wouldn't think they'd let you. Yes, I know. Yes, someone catch on. Let me see what this says. Many airlines have stricter internal policies with some requiring pilots to abstain for at least 12 hours before flying to a sufficient time for metabolization. Dude, I don't think 12 hours is long enough to be honest. 12 hours seems, you know, that's not that much. But you want to hear something crazy. So I have a CDL, so it has to be zeros. If when they do the drug test, they do a blow, you're allowed to blow a percentage. In summary, pilots must avoid alcohol for at least eight hours before a flight. Maintain BAC below zero point zero four. Yeah, that's that's drunk in some states. I think. And not fly while hungover or impaired. Wow. Yeah. So no, yeah. So I guess. Bro, they should have to blow it in the front of the plane and show the number of the rest of the plane. That's pretty crazy. That's yeah. No, we don't do breathalyzer or anything, but it's it's you wouldn't. It's never been an issue. No, I know. If you've never heard of you've never heard of anybody having an issue. No, a real one. No, yeah. What's it like when you get there from when you when you leave, take me through a UFC fight as a referee. So you get there. Um, how early, like how early do you get there? It's usually it could be two hours, an hour and a half. I think usually like. And who's there when you get there? Like Megan, Olivia in there yet? Or no, I guess I don't know. Do you have a meeting with the commission? Yeah, like just take me through. So I straight go in and walk in, find the commission room. Um, you know, obviously if I've been there before, but if I haven't been working a place I never been, walk in, find the commission room, get my assignments. When the fighters come, I do my one on one rules meeting. And then fighter. Yeah. Wow. Every fighter on the card, every fighter I have on the card. Yep. So usually we'll go with the average is three fights on a card. Right. I've had more, you know, less if a cancellation, whatever, but go over the rules, ask them if, you know, they have any questions. Then, you know, depending what state mostly now you do also you do RO like a review official and. What does that mean? So it's like the Instimony play. I were, we have Instimony play now. And then, um, and then the fight before yours, you usually do, you know, the gate when they walk in the check. And so you're busy. Mm hmm. Pretty much the whole time. And will you have like, what do you eat before? Do you have an energy drink? What do you do? I don't have an energy drink, but at some places I eat before. Sometimes I don't eat before. It all depends. Like, um, when I ref in New Jersey, there's a few restaurants. I'll have, I have something, um, Madison Square Garden. Oh, it's go to the same place and I eat there. What is it? And it's a Maliwea pub and they have like, um, Irish beef stew. Yeah. And I get what you like. Yeah. I like a quesadilla is that with almond flour tortillas. We like what we like. Yeah. Yeah. So I get that. And then, you know, so, and that like, like, DBI idea, like MSG, I do the same thing every time. So there's a guy, I wish I could remember the name of his company, but I can't right now, but he sells shirts and stuff outside. I go out and say hello to him every single time. Right. He's always out there in the matter of alcohol, no matter what the guys out there. He's awesome. He's right on eighth, eighth avenue. He's on the corner and then I say hello to him and I go down and get ready to go after, and then I go to the Maliwea. Then I eat usually the beef stew and then, and then get going. And so, yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of a creature of habit in some ways. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I am very much, you know, like, same. And I use the word criteria and whatever, but, uh, you know, this is how I do it. And, but almost everything I'm like that really. Hey, discipline equals freedom, man. That's what Jaco Willink always says. Yeah, that's pretty. Yeah. It's awesome. And I think that's kind of true. It's like, if you get up and get the things you don't want to do done out of the day, your day is so different. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Definitely. Um, have you ever been unable to do a referee a fight and for what reason? Oh, no. Before you go. Yeah. Um, well, I have a story of, uh, like I refbed, but I had, uh, I had, when I was refbing, I had, uh, two kidney stones and, and, um, staples like in my stomach. I ended up, so it's crazy story. I had, uh, my appendix out when I was like 20 and then, um, a few years ago, I had it out again. So they took out the appendix, but they left in, they left in like a stub. So I actually had my appendix out twice. Pretty interesting. So, uh, or you got scared. Yeah. Yeah. Either way, it was the same hospital. So, but who forgot a little, I don't know. And it was bad. So they had to like, that's nonsense. Yeah. Yeah. That's real nonsense. And the fact that when I asked, um, you know, my K is this, does this happen? They're like, uh, it does. I'm like, oh, so I also, at the same time had, um, kidney stones. Oh, so I do the recovery and there, so everything was kind of miserable. And I had, um, a big show, an event coming up and, um, it was an important one for, for me. Yeah. And then it was just, um, had a little meeting to me. It was, um, local and I had the main event. It was just, uh, so, um, so I decided in my head, I was going to do it. So I ended up getting the, um, doctor that I was going to see every two days for the recovery to say you can do it. And she was like, you can do it. I said, great. So, but, uh, staples getting really tight. So I took the few of them out from the top and then by yourself. Yeah. And then it was easy though. They were coming out already. And then, yeah. It's like build a bear. Yeah. Yeah. You just put it together. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, and then, um, so then, but the kidney stone started kicking in really bad. It was just a weird time. And so the night before I'm like really panic button. I'm about to say, I can't do it. And, but, uh, I'm in there. So next day I get there and then the pain's kind of starting to go a little bit. So I get to the event. Um, I get the fights and, uh, the main event like I was hoping and, uh, awesome, um, place that I've always wanted to work. And so, uh, the bathroom is like attached to like the fans and us were using the same bathroom. So I walk by and they're like, can you see the man? So I walk into the bathroom and now I'm feeling pain real bad. So from the kidney stone. Yeah. So boom, I, I pass it. It goes to ding. Yeah. Yeah. It hits the thing. All good for that. Like, well, the pain was still there, but it felt so much better. Yeah. And I was walking out and then you'll shoot your eye. And the kids like, the kids like, oh, you're a legend. And all I can think of is you should have. So what just happened in there, dude, like in crazy. And then the event went great. And then, um, and then I passed the other one because I had two on the way to Seattle the next week in the plane. Oh yeah. You got to save one for when you travel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just miserable, but, but yeah, it's kind of a funny story. And then the, the appendix out twice pretty funny because, uh, even it was actually almost ended up being bad because I was telling people what was wrong with me. Cause I was, oh, they thought it was already done. They thought that was already done. So they kept skipping over that. And, and, and yeah, so it was a week or so. And I was pretty infection by then, you know, kept caught in, but it was fine. And everything worked out great. But, dude, that's wild. That just to know if people want to know if some of these referees are tough or not. This guy's passing kidney stones between fights in the bathroom. That's pretty unprecedented. Um, Keith Peterson, man, thank you so much. One for always making me feel welcome when I'm at the fights. It's such an honor to get to see you guys, man. That it's, I, will you agree with this, that it's one of the most, the people that make that, that, that are part of that company that put that event on, it's pretty spectacular. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is like, uh, yeah, like some of the, like the T-Mobile. It's just all so special. Yeah. Yeah. And you see the same people over and over again, and it really does feel like a family. Yeah, it is. Does it feel like that to you? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I, I, it's, you know, as we figured out, I kind of keep to myself, but right, uh, there's some people I see every time that I really great people and, and, um, you know, I speak to them and, uh, briefly and it's a really, you know, well, thank you so much for all your efforts, man. Thanks for continuing to just to support, uh, wrestling. And I think, uh, it is just, and you know, you being out there just inspires other young people to get into it and just having like, um, so much history yourself in it. And, uh, yeah. Thank you for letting us talk about your family and stuff today, man. And, um, yeah, uh, cheers to, uh, many more years of, um, of, of being on the journey, man. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you. And may you bet. Thank you. But it's gonna take.