Why Most People Will Never Build Wealth (And How to Be Different) | Vivian Tu

Our middle-class issue again. More people will go into that category of kings and more people will go into that category of really suffering. There will be people who figure it out, but then there's also over-group people who aren't going to be able to figure it out. Their life is going to get meaningfully worse. You are going to see people continuously wake up one day in their 40s or 50s and look at themselves in the mirror and be like, what happened? She's one of the most trusted voices in personal finance today. She's a former Wall Street trader, turned top-podcaster and best-selling author. Please welcome Vivian too. I am going to sit here and be the first person to tell you, it ain't fair. Life ain't fair. Some people are born on third base. Some people are out in the parking lot with the person who is selling those illegal hot dogs that does not have a vendor license. But just because our current society is not perfect does not mean that you can lose hope. What are the first three steps someone should take to set themselves up? By the end of 2026, they feel like they have a lot more peace because of the actions they've taken with this three-step game plan. Mmm. I would say... Every time I'm around you, I feel wealthier. I feel like money pours into my heart and they're just abundance that is coming to me because you give such good wisdom and strategies on how to mentally, emotionally, and tactically create more financial freedom in your life. So thank you for being here. You've got a new book called Well Endowed. The last book you had crushed and this book is about the secrets to strategic spending, building a financial foundation for you and your family and creating lasting generational wealth. Make sure you guys get a copy of this. And as someone who just got married this year and just had twins recently, this is exactly what I need to start learning. And I probably should have started learning this stuff years ago before getting married and before having kids. There seems to be a lot of financial insecurity in the world right now and specifically over the last five years where we're at this half of a decade mark since COVID, right? And 2030 is going to be here before we know it. Where 2026 is starting out right now, this episode comes out. And there just seems to be a lot of financial insecurity, financial stress, financial uncertainty about what's happening in the future and do I have enough money? Yeah. I have enough money to prepare myself, my family, my spouse, my kids for a safe and healthy future. So the first question is that there's a lot of myths that I see happening on social media, people talking about money everywhere now. Some stuff is really helpful, some things are not. What would you say is the biggest money myth that you're seeing online right now in social media that you think we should debunk? Or you think just doesn't really have any weight right now? Yeah, I think one of the scariest things I'm seeing right now is the anti-quote prediction market. Oh, yeah. So you've heard of these brands where basically you can essentially say, I'm going to, and again, quote, big air quotes here, invest in who potentially might win this political election or who might win this basketball game or football game or who might, you know, will this person say this in their live television broadcast? And these brands, and I see these ads, and it pisses me off to no end, because they're like, oh, well, these billionaires are investing in the prediction market. These billionaires are not placing predictions in the prediction market. They are investing in the brand because this is an old brand. It is a brand is old this time, frankly, and it's called gambling. Yes. Okay. I'm not even just talking, you know, like Vegas slots. I'm talking, bring it back to the olden days of horse betting, where you had a bookie. Like that is what you're doing here. You are betting on an outcome. This is not investing. This is not a market. You have literally opened a book. You have opened a sports book, but for real life things happen. For life events. Life events. And we are conflating gambling, which let's be clear, nobody is a good gambler. There might be some really, really talented poker players who have honed in those skills, but have you. But nobody is a good gambler. Nobody is good at the slot machine. Nobody is good at the roulette table. Like nobody's good at gambling. You cannot get better. It is luck, and the house always wins. And so my thing is, is when you see these prediction markets, just know it is a kin to you flipping a coin and putting money on it, if it's going to land heads or tails. And I think it's incredibly silly to call that investing because it will likely lead to you depleting your wealth versus increasing it. Yeah, it's very addictive. It's very like adrenaline rush. You get a little confetti sign every time you place a thing. Like, of course, like you feel good. Yeah. That's crazy. Maybe I'll win something, right? And it's a real problem because the, we talked about this. You just mentioned, like it feels like it has been a hard economic time. When people get into modes of desperation, they see these types of opportunities as a way to fix all their problems. If I take this unlikely bet, I take a eight game parlay and somehow it hits all of my problems will be solved. But I'm telling you, they won't be. They won't be. You're just going to be another, however much in the whole. And if you won that, you're going to try to double down a gambler. Of course you are. And then you're going to lose it eventually. You're not going to say, you know what? I'm just someone and done thing. Yes. I'm only going to gamble one time, win big, and then stop forever. There is a reason why on every single advertisement for a sports book, for a casino, anything, they have to put at the bottom, call gambling addicts anonymous or whatever. And like, they have to do all of that disclaimer because it's a vice in the same way that cigarette boxes have to tell you that it is cancerous, carcinogenic, that alcohol labels have to have, you know, like drink responsibly, that it's a vice. And it is incredibly addictive because it operates on the same neural pathways as other addictive substances. Yeah. If you're going to gamble, you need to look at his entertainment. Yeah. And just say, if I go to Vegas and I spend like $300 on relapse, that's like $200 for you, $300 for me, I'm a little bit risky, you know? $300 box of like, all right, this is my two hour window. It's like going to a very expensive movie. I'm watching a movie, it costs money, when a lose, I walk away, being entertained, but not risking like, I need this money. And there's an energy around going into gambling. I always go in having fun. Yeah. When I was poor, like 15 years ago, I used to go gamble and $100 was like everything to me. Yeah. And I had this kind of anxious energy where I really didn't want to lose the money. Of course. And I lost it every time. Because you weren't playing a win, you were playing not to lose. Exactly. And now I play so light and free, because I don't look at it as like, I need to make this money back. And I feel like I win every time. I probably don't. You don't. But I feel like, man, I'm just winning left and right. And it's more of an enjoyable experience rather than all my hopes and dreams on if this hits Red Seven. You know what I mean? Exactly. And you've got to switch your mind into thinking, like, I can't gamble at all, unless it's just fun. And I have nothing to lose with the cup or 100 bucks here or there. And I know it's just money that I'm never going to get back. It's the cost of admission to the movie. Yeah, don't spend thousands though. No. Spend like 100 bucks. That movie's not worth it. No, it's not worth it. Because it could be gone in a second, too. So I'm curious. The last time you were on, we talked about the difference between real, rich, and fake rich. And people really love that response. But I'm really curious. What's the biggest mindset difference that you see from people who are building wealth versus people who stay stuck in scarcity? I think it's the desire and comfort with discomfort. So you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable because what is the worst thing for anything, frankly, any human, any object, any animal, whatever, it's change. We are creatures of habit. It is nice to wake up and know exactly what's going to happen, right? That is why people stay at jobs for longer than they should. It's why they stay in relationships for longer than they probably should. It is why people are, when they're scared and they don't know what to do, they're like, I guess I'll just keep doing exactly what I'm currently doing and change nothing. But changing nothing can mean you are stuck in what my friend Susie Welp's likes to call a B plus life. She's a professor at NYU. And the way she explained it was, if you have like a C minus life, everything kind of sucks, right? You don't live where you want to live. You don't have reliable transportation. You don't get to go on trips. You don't really have friends. Everything sucks and you are so motivated to change it. And if you have an A plus life, everything is amazing. You get to do what you want to do. You are incredibly incentivized to keep that life. But a B plus life is the most dangerous one because it is the one where you could tread water for years. And you could get stuck in a life that you are not fully satisfied in. But isn't so terrible that you feel compelled to change it. And so I think the difference between people who are able to grow wealth and the people who stay stuck is being able to recognize that you have to give up good to have great. I've heard this so many times when I've done my events that a lot of people tell me, Lewis, I make 120 grand a year. I've got two beautiful kids. I've been married for eight to 10 years. My life is really good. And I'm just something's missing. I feel a little miserable because it is good. And you think like anyone looking at this person and say, man, you've got a great life. Why don't you just appreciate and enjoy it? But they know they're not reaching into some type of potential. They could be doing. Or they're in a career that they enjoy, but it's really not what's been gnawing at them emotionally. It's not what's been on their heart to go pursue at least doing something on the side. And they just stay comfortable. And I think when people stay comfortable and they're not willing to just constantly reinvest in their personal growth, constantly reinvest in learning about the financial opportunities in front of them or taking the risks, which is a financial investment as well, taking that emotional risk or trying something new that B plus life is scary, I think, for a lot of people. Maybe they like it for a while, but then eventually they think something's off. I think we have to remember also, growth has growing pains. You of all people as tall as you are, probably remember being a teen. And your knees hurt so bad. I was gonna say this for years. It's like my knees are in pain. But I think we all talk about growth being this wonderful flower sprouting out of the group. No, growing sucks. It hurts. Sometimes it leaves stretch marks. Sometimes, sometimes it's not so fun. Sometimes you over night or in a shirt that is just a little too small. And I think we have to remember that like growth does not happen overnight. But it also, when it does happen, isn't comfortable. It's not easy. And sometimes it hurts. It hurts. It always hurts. Yeah. I feel like it's always gonna hurt. It always hurts. And that's why people stay stuck being comfortable in that B plus life. How many people do you think are living a B plus life right now in America? Most of them. Really? Yeah. I think probably at least half, I would say there's a certain set of the population that is really, really gutting it out right now. They are having an incredibly hard time. They've had an incredibly hard time for quite some time now. And they are really, really hand-to-mouth trying to make things happen. Day by day, month by month. These are not the people I'm talking about. No. There's also a subset of Americans that are living a life beyond anybody's wildest imagination. Kings. Kings. But the vast majority of people fall into this B plus life. And similarly to immediately after COVID, I think over the next five years, we are going to see both a financial K-shaped divergence as well as a overall lifestyle satisfaction K-shaped divergence. What does that mean? So a K-shaped divergence is just an economic principle that like outcomes will be different for different people. So post-COVID, right? There was a K-shaped economic divergence in that the white collar professionals that got to stay home saw this incredible growth in the stock market. Their jobs elevated. They got more opportunities because they got to work from home. Everything was going well in their life. And then the folks who didn't have money to invest in COVID, who were working many of those essential jobs, like we have to really, really call out the privilege here, they gutted it out. They put their lives on the line and were no better off for it. In fact, many were worse off for it because they had long-term medical illnesses, conditions that long COVID, they ended up in positions where they felt like their careers had stagnated. Even though they had put so much on the line, we were banging pots and pans for them at 8 PM or whatever. And then America rolled over one night and said, we don't care anymore. And so there was this huge divergence of people that have nots and it got greater. And I think what I'm saying is right now, I think our middle class is shrinking. And it will be a K-shaped divergence. More people will go into that category of kings and more people will go into that category of really suffering. Financials, well, it's not financials. But also from an emotional perspective of, there will be people who figure it out, people who are able to find financial stability and security and they are going to have a much happier life than they would have they stayed at B+. But then there's also group of people who aren't going to be able to figure it out either because they choose not to. They don't have access to the resources, which I think is really the shame here. But their life is going to get meaningfully worse. And you are going to see people continuously over the course of the next couple of decades, wake up one day in their 40s or 50s after, a lot of their working years and look at themself in the mirror and be like, what happened? And have nothing to show for. Nothing to show for. No savings, no investments, just kind of what happened. Like I ran on that treadmill for 20 years and I have not moved. You aren't running on a track, you're running on a treadmill. Oh, man, that's painful. When you look back and you see decades of your life and you haven't improved, that is painful. What do you think is the difference then between the two people who are watching or listening right now who are financially struggling? Let's say they're at zero or they're in debt, negative. Yeah. They're in their 20s or they're in their 30s and they're both at a similar standpoint around financial freedom. They don't have it and they're struggling. What is the difference between the one person who goes out from this moment and over the next five to seven years creates a surplus of financial abundance for their lives and the one that states stuck and suffers over and over again for the next five to seven years. What is the difference between those two types of people? One who goes and creates financial freedom and the other who doesn't where they both have the same starting point. One of them makes a plan. And I think it's really that simple because the person who doesn't make a plan is going to one weekend be so motivated. They're gonna try and like crash diet their finance, like financial life and they are going to try and change a thousand things at once. They're gonna get confused. They're gonna get overwhelmed and then they're gonna put it back on the shelf and they're not gonna look at it for another 12 months. Then they're gonna be 12 months further behind. The person who actually makes the plan realizes that the changes that are needed are so vast, they cannot be accomplished in one weekend. So they're gonna say, okay, I have all these things that I need to fix about my life right now. I can only do two of them this weekend. So maybe they only do one of them, frankly, because they do the one and they get overwhelmed. But they say, all right, the second one is on my calendar for next Friday afternoon. After I'm wrapped with work, I'm gonna just spend an extra 30 minutes at my desk. I'm gonna figure this out. They're gonna do that one little thing. They're gonna have this plan. And this plan is actually going to change because we are not even comparing the person who doesn't make a plan and the plan that the other person makes today. We're comparing this person who's made a plan and in three months time realizes their plan was off course and they're going to recalculating. And then three months later, it's gonna be the GPS going recalculating. And then three months later, it's gonna be recalculating. And all of a sudden, each of these little milestones of financial security and stability, maybe they get a really, really solid savings base. Maybe they picked up a side hustle and said, I'm only gonna do this for six months, but I am just going to break my back for six months. I am going to get an emergency fund. Great, they get the emergency fund. Three months from now, they're like, well, now that I have the emergency fund, I don't need this job anymore. I can go get the right job, not the right now job and they level up their career, okay? Now that they've leveled up their career, they're like, wait, my company's actually going to match my 401k because my last company didn't do that. Now suddenly they're getting free money coming in the door. Now they're going to, oh, well, now that I'm really starting to prepare for retirement, like I can actually be in a position to have a conversation about marrying this person that I'm so in love with, they're starting to look at rings. Now they're looking, okay, well, now that I have some retirement savings, I'm investing in those, I have a career I like, I've built this emergency fund, let's start talking about a family. And it's each of these iterations, it is not the plan you make today that changes your life. It's the plan that you make every single time you change the plan. And that iteration, this person who didn't make a plan is going to look in 10 years. And this trajectory is gonna look unfathomable because it is. You can't just, it's kind of like when they tell these like rock climbers, you can't just climb up the sheer cliff face, you have to kind of zig-zag back and forth, you have to like get to a little stopping point, that is exactly what we're doing here. You cannot just go straight up, unless there's some sort of elevator that can take you there. And that is called generational wealth. And if you don't have it, you're kind of so out at this point because you're either born with it or you're not. Unless you have an elevator, you are going to have to zig-and-zag. But everybody else looking out and zooming out from that picture is just gonna see a straight line up. Yeah, for me, I feel like 15, 17 years ago when I was broke on my sister's couch, I didn't understand money and I was afraid of it. Talked about this on my podcast. We talked about this on my podcast. And it was really scary to me, it was really daunting. And I felt like it was a language that I didn't even comprehend. I barely understood it. I understood the basic words and that was about it. But I couldn't speak with anyone who was fluent about money. Yeah. And it is take, and I'm still 15, 17 years later, I guess I'm fluent in some ways, but now being married and having children, there's new levels of financial literacy that I'm still not educated in. That I still have to continue to invest and learn and figure out new game plans at this level for my future based on where my life is at now. It's different from 10, 15 years ago. And I'm constantly learning. Do you even recognize that guy? God, I should have so unrecognizable. I'm so grateful that I had a plan. Because you're saying that and I'm thinking about myself back then. I'm like, okay, I have lots of friends that were broke, just like me. Just like me at 24, 25, like, what are we doing? Which by the way, that's normal. Yeah, of course it's normal. Like what 22 year old, 24 year old has money unless your parents gave it to you, you don't have it. And I wasn't educated on it. I didn't go to class that taught me about money or financial literacy. And so I felt very insecure, very, and just very dumb around money. And I started just seeking mentors, just people that knew a little bit more than me. And started learning from them. I started reading books. I started, you know, I will teach you to be rich where me to say these books come to get out of my college debt. And I started, okay, let me automate this process instead of paying the bills myself monthly. Let me like one step at a time, one month, one year at a time. And then I could look back and see how far I'd grown and what I'd accomplish and the inner piece that I gained from learning a little bit. In every year, I feel like I'm constantly leveling up my game plan around money. And it gives me more peace and freedom internally, which hopefully continues to give me more external peace and freedom financially. Before we started this episode, you showed me a beautiful picture of your daughters. They look like little jelly beans. They're so small and cute and adorable. Imagine the man you will be when they are in high school. Oh gosh, I'm gonna be rocking and rolling right now. Because I'm just like, I feel like I'm so much farther ahead before they were born. Yeah. And I was in the NICU, one of my daughters was in the NICU for a few days. And I was in the NICU and there was probably an 18 or 19 year old couple in there who just had like a child as well. And I was talking with this guy, you know, just a young, he was either high school or maybe just at a high school. And I was talking to him, I was like, congrats dad. And their daughter was really premature. And I was just looking at, he was in one of those shoes that the younger generation wears. They're not like crocs. Yeah, they're crocs. Yeah, I'm like, he's wearing crocs. He was like bedazzled, right? Yeah, but my nephew was like my nephew, right? Yeah. Just out of high school. And I'm like, you're like my nephew right now who's just out of high school, who has no clue what's happening in life. Like the nicest kid, but doesn't know anything about money. Doesn't know how to take care of himself really. Doesn't know how to like, he's just figuring out life. Like I was at 20, 22. And I'm like, this kid is having a child right now. And he seemed like so excited to be a dad. He's like, I'm going to do everything I can for my baby girl. But this kid didn't have any financial literacy. He was coming from a few hours away in a smaller town in California. And I could tell he didn't come from a lot of money. Yeah. He didn't have a lot of money. And he was a child. And I was like, if I had a kid at 18, 19, I would be screwed in terms of like, I wouldn't have been able to set my kids up in the way that you want to. The way that I want to know and the way that I could now and can now, hopefully if I stay healthy and things go well, I have more literacy around finances. I have a better emotional relationship with money. And I feel like I have set my life up in place to be more organized with a game plan. Like you said, to structure my life for the next 20, 30, 50 years, to have financial peace. Maybe I'm not going to be this billionaire or something, but I'm going to be financially free as long as I don't do anything stupid or mess something up or who knows whatever. But I have a game plan. I think we should also have a conversation around like how having the billion dollars should not be your end goal. No. By the way, it's not my dream. It's not. If it happens, cool. Can I, I feel like I cannot stay this enough, but like having a lot of money does not make you rich. Actually, you can have a lot of money and be incredibly poor. Because if one, you can't bring anything else to the table, you are incredibly poor person. But two, if you don't know what is enough, you'll never get there. You'll never be satisfied. And if you can never be satisfied, you're forever going to be the poorest man on earth. Yeah, you're not rich. You're not living a rich rich. And there's one thing to be said for like, okay, I want to continue to grow and contribute and bring value to myself and others. And I'm doing it for the game of like building a number or something or building a business. But if you don't feel enough and you have to keep making more money to fulfill something, you're a poor person. Yeah. It's like you've got some wound inside of you. Exactly. That is the need for you. We talked about these money wounds. Exactly. So I was looking at a video actually recently. I'm getting fed like baby content. Yeah, of course. All my social media feed. They know you just had a bit like baby. You talk, you say babies and it's just like that's all you see. And I was just watching a video of a dad putting his face up to like his child. And they were like both smiling and laughing. And he just put, I'm a rich man. And I get the chills thinking about that because it's like, gosh, he is a rich man. He's got this like beautiful connection with his child. And who knows if he has money or not. But in that moment, he felt like the richest man in the world. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of wealthy people that don't have good relationships with their family, with their friends, with their teams, whatever it might be. And I've seen kind of some wiser men who are decades older than me talk about the definition of success for them who are wealthier. In their 60s, 70s and 80s is having great relationships with their adult kids. They're like that is wealth. Yeah. And that's at this stage, not having more money. You can't take the money with you. No. You want two work and hips and two work and knees and kids that call you when they need something. Sit. That is wealth. Yeah. And help. That's amazing. So the game planned then. How does someone, what are the first three steps someone should take if they're financially poor in this moment to set themselves up by the end of 2026? They feel like they have a lot more peace. Because of the actions they've taken with this three step game plan over the next year. What would that be for you? I would actually say one, figure out a goal that right now maybe seems a little delusional, but a goal that you want to get to. This goal has to be smart. So it's specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and time bound. So I think it's really, really important that we set our goals not enough. Oh, I want to have $10 million by the end of the year. It's like, OK, no, no, no. $10,000 might be a better goal. I want $1,000. I want to have this much money from doing this by this time for this reason. Give it. Make sure it's clear. Having that clarity of the goal, that is step number one. Because you always have to have a target. You can't just shoot in the dark, right? You have to have a target. Two, I would sit down and list out your strengths and weaknesses. That'll actually help you get to and hold you back from that goal. So it's like, oh, your strength is that you are actually really, really good at saving money. You don't like to spend money. But your weakness is that you are absolutely terrified to part with cash from your bank account. You hold everything in a checking account. You want to see it at all times. So you've got to lose your value. You've got to invest. So write down all your strengths and weaknesses that might help you or hurt you from getting that goal. And the third, you already mentioned this a little earlier. Get a mentor. My mentor at JP Morgan changed my life. Really? When I started working there, she was my manager and she was my intern sponsor the prior summer. But I looked around and it was 40 white guys and suits. And they all came from one of two backgrounds. Either they were likely from very, very affluent families where Uncle Roger also worked on Wall Street and was like, oh, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, got, you know, whoever on the desk. Or they went to an Ivy League institution, played football across, you know, basketball, whatever. They were all athletes from these really, really elite universities because Wall Street loves to recruit athletes. It helps with like a team morale and, you know, workplace environment. I looked around and I'm like, well, I don't have a rich uncle Roger. I did not play a collegiate sport and I'm not a man. So just to state the obvious, I was like, who the hell am I going to relate to? There was one woman. She also happened to be an Asian woman. She was everything I wanted to be. She walked into work, clicked, clacked her heels, like Gucci stilettos on the marble floor, flung a new Chanel bag on the desk every single day. Wow. I went to her apartment and it was the first person I'd ever seen own, like own real estate in New York City. And I knew she was really rich because she could afford a dog. She had a dog in New York City. You got dog sitters, dog walkers. Yeah. Her dog ate like human great food and like, yeah, it was like crazy. I was like 100 dollars a month in food for the dog. And I looked to her for everything, whether it was, hey, I don't even know what health insurance I want or what to invest in. Or frankly, I would call her and be like, I really like this boy. He still hasn't texted me back and she would be like, have some self respect. And she gave me so much financial wisdom. And I talk about her all the time. But like what I think people don't realize is like how much of an impact she actually had on my life, not just my finances, like we're friends. And I went to her apartment one weekend and she was cleaning out her closet. And she was just, you know, putting stuff in certain bags to give away. And she get, I will never forget this. She gifted me a pair of YSL heels on one. They were a little too big or I can't remember if they were a little too big or a little too small, a thousand dollar heels or something. Yeah, they were like a thousand other heels. They were black leather gold toe. I so have them today. I do, by the way. And I was like so shell shocked that she would give these to me because she could easily have sold them for $700 or $600 on some secondary website. She's too much time. She's like, here we go. It's not the time because she had other clothes going into bags that were going out to sell. She was going to, she was going to like, you know, send to a service that would sell them for her and they would take a cut and whatever. But I asked her, I was like, why are you giving these to me? And she said, I think every young woman needs a pair of heels that helps her stand a little taller. And it makes her feel just like a little bit bigger, a little bit better. And she was the big sister I always wanted. That's cool. And she guided me in so many ways, helped me avoid pitfalls. She is the reason I didn't adopt a dog when I was 22 because she was like, take so much time. She was like, don't do it. Don't do it. She told me she was like, it's going to ruin your social life. You will not have time. You will be picking up hoop. And I was like, really? You got one. You know, do what I did. Listen to what I'm saying. And I avoided a lot of potholes because of her. And so make a goal. Know your strengths and weaknesses and find a mentor who can help guide you there. That's beautiful. What is the greatest lesson your mentor taught you about money and the greatest lesson that she didn't teach you, but she observed in her? You know, I think it really comes down to how she treated people. So she comes from like a pretty working class family background, like parents are in a restaurant. And I would see how she treated staff and she was so kind, always, you know, huge tipper would have you like, would hand the bartender a 20 before she ordered. And that wouldn't even be the tip. That was just to get his attention. And she was so kind to people who, frankly, to people who like didn't have really much to offer her. And I think that taught me that like, it's cool. No one has ever been with you. You were never above anybody. But two, seeing how kind she was to all of these people, we went to one restaurant one time. And the food was very bad. And she told the staff. She was like, this shrimp tastes like it's been soaked in something because it wasn't fresh. And this is not edible. And they were like, we're so sorry. We can do this. And she's like, I don't want anything. I don't want it comped. I don't want anything. I'm happy to pay for it. I want you to know. And I was like, are you sure we don't want this comped? By the way, like I would like to get something comped. Free dessert, anything. You know, I was broke. I would take anything free whenever I could. But I saw how she lived her life with a certain set of principles that she wasn't going to bend. And it made me live my life with a certain set of principles that I was never ever going to bend. And it's made me a better person. If you didn't have her as a mentor or a mentor in general, where do you think you would be personally in your life and financially? Personally? I mean, I don't even know because she's part of the reason why I stuck it out on Wall Street for those first couple of years because I was like, it's tough here, but she's going to look out for me. And when she was no longer my manager, I left. That's what ended up happening. And I certainly wouldn't have been in a position to get the media job I got had I left earlier. And she was actually the person who got me that job because it was through her network, her connection. Financially, I would certainly be worse off. Really? Guarantee you because she taught me so many things that she may mistakes on that I didn't have to eat. Like I didn't have to eat. Yeah, for three years, she didn't have those mistakes. I didn't have to eat because she already tasted it and she knew it was bad. And she was like, don't do this. Don't do that. Oh, by the way, when you are thinking of final. And this is years and years later. This is actually very recently. When I bought my place in New York City, I was like, who's your mortgage guy? We talked to her mortgage guy. We probably got you a better deal or we got the better deal through up. Yeah, interesting. So I know for a fact I'd be financially worse off, but I think personally, like she really changed the trajectory of my life. And I mean, my mom told her that at my wedding, which is crazy. Wow. Yeah. Did I read that you used to do like translating for your parents when you were young with like money, Tom or situations and like negotiations? Hi, this is Amy too. Definitely not her daughter. Can I talk to the claims adjuster? Yeah. Wow. Because even as a teeny tiny PIP squeak child with my child voice, I spoke native English. And my parents, even to this day, speak English that is very clearly, you know, riddled with an accent. Yeah. And I have seen my parents, and I don't want to get emotional about this, but I've seen them face so much adversity or be written off because of what they sound like on the phone or what they may look like. And they came to this country with a dream and they gave up all of their hopes to be able to funnel all of their ambition into me. And so you're only child. I'm only child. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. Your girls are lucky in that way. But like, I feel like I saw how often they were scoffed at or taken advantage of and it made me sick because I was born here. Yeah. I'm not here to survive. I have a sense of entitlement and I don't think that's a bad thing. I am entitled to a good life. I am a strong believer that only good things happen to girls like me. And I say that boldly and proudly every single morning in the mirror, I'm like bad things like this don't happen to girls like me. And people are always laughing on my team. They're like, that's like literally a delusional thing to say. That's why you are where you are. But I think it's. But I think it's. I am a little delusional. And that's why you are where you are because you believe it. I believe it. But I believe that I am entitled to thrive in this country, looking the way. It's a freaking goal, Virion. I am entitled to thrive in this country, looking the way I look. However I sound in a way that my parents never felt that they were entitled to. And maybe in part, they were truly discriminated against whatever. But I think a lot of it was also self-fulfilling prophecy in that because my parents were like, oh, my English is not good. I'm not going to ask for a raise. Even if my mom was the star chemist at her pharmaceutical lab, or my dad was like, oh, I should just be happy to have a job. I don't want to rock the boat. Not rocking the boat is a big immigrant thing. You don't want to make waves. But my dad was also incredibly hardworking and very talented. And so I took, there are two hearts worth of ambition and jammed it into everything I do now. So I am of the mindset that everything I do needs to be compensated. My time is incredibly valuable. And if you are not with the program, you can. Yeah, I'm not with you. I'm not with you. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to work together. And that's okay. I think I have been given this confidence because of many of the sacrifices they made. Did your parents give you this confidence? Or did you see, I guess, I don't know what I want to call it, their lack of confidence, or their insecurity around being immigrants here, where you said, I need to go claim this now because I was born here. I think it was a side effect of having to grow up really fast. Like I was a latch key kid, probably much sooner than it is legal. I'm old now, so please don't arrest my parents. But like I was a latch key kid far sooner than, you know, I was supposed to be because my parents couldn't afford childcare and also both had to work. I was the one reading over my mom and dad's resumes when they would apply for jobs. How are you during this time? Young, like late elementary early middle. I would remember reading over my mom's reports, like her mid-year review and end of your reviews on herself and rewriting them. And I feel very lucky. Both of my parents are incredibly smart. I have been given many talents and gifts when it comes to learning. I learned very quickly. I was always at the top of my class, you know, graduated high school, the university of Chicago, graduated with honors. I was always more academically mature. So I was able to help my mom get away with some stuff. And these days she doesn't even need my help. I mean, they're both retired now. But like, as they got more comfortable and they saw my writing, they would say, I'm going to start to be able to copy and paste here and there, here and there. But like, I had to grow up really quickly. Like I was coming home to do my homework very swiftly. We would eat dinner. And then my mom would be like, can you help me with something? And I remember the first couple of times I did it so begrudgingly because I was like, oh, this is like extra homework. Other kids don't have to do this. And I was right. But other kids didn't have parents who would make that kind of sacrifice and leave the country and the language and everything that they know to hopefully give you a better future. Yeah. Wow. How many languages do you speak? So I speak Shanghai-Nese fluently. What is that? So, okay, basically my family is from Shanghai. And Chinese is largely burgeonown into Mandarin and Cantonese. It is a dialect of Mandarin, but it is so vastly different from Mandarin that I do not fully understand and speak Mandarin at a fluent level. Wow. You can understand some of it, but... I can. I can. I can understand some of it better than my speaking Mandarin, but at home we speak Shanghai-Nese. And it is a dying language, unfortunately, because they are no longer teaching it in Shanghai like schools because they want everybody to have one uniform language. Mandarin versus Chinese is... Just like Mandarin. Like they want everybody to see Mandarin. Wow. Yeah. So, who speaks it now? Like when I went back to Shanghai in 2019, only people over the age of like 50. Really? Yeah. So you can't really go. You can't go to Cantonese and uncles. I can talk to the old people, but the young people, I would be like asking them for directions and be like, we don't know your... Really? Yeah. So you're like an outsider there? No, not quite, because all of the senior citizens are like... They love you. They're all so pleasantly surprised that someone who looks like me and is very clearly American can speak Shanghai-Nese this way. That's cool. But I had an easier time asking like, you know, this old uncle, like I was like, is the food good at this restaurant? He's like, the food is the food. I'm like, damn, aren't you in such a bad mood? And his wife laughed that I could say that in Shanghai-Nese. It's for the... And she actually answered and, you know, we had a nice little chat. He's just like a curmudgeonly old man. But like, to even be able to have that interaction, like, is strange because the older generation, they typically largely speak Shanghai-Nese only. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. You mentioned this kind of entitlement mindset, right? Yeah. What are you saying in the morning when you wake up? You say... Only good things happen to girls like me. Uh-huh. And you mentioned also like, and I love this about you. And I really want people to understand what's underneath this because I truly believe the difference between you setting a goal and a plan for yourself and actually accomplishing it is your mindset and your belief that you are capable of accomplishing it. And you are entitled to accomplish it. Not just because you were born here, but because you're willing to do the work and take the actions to go through the growing pains to make that accomplishment happen. And there's a belief underneath it where a lot of people might say, okay, I have this game plan, but they don't believe that they, that luck comes to them. They don't believe they're worthy and deserving of having financial peace or creating more growth in their life. They don't believe it fully. And by you saying it over and over to yourself every morning or every time you're in a team meeting, that what is it saying in good things happen to girls like me? Only good things happen to girls like me. Only good things happen to girls like me, right? It's like you sang that over and over again, maybe didn't believe in the beginning, but you started to really train yourself and then find evidence of, look, good things happen to me today. I was right. Good things happen to me today. And then the next day, and it's just a reaffirming mindset. And I think a lot of people don't have that mindset. Can I tell you something? I said to my mom that like literally shook her to her core. Tell me. There was one exam. I think this was like seventh grade and it was biology. We were all, we was like bio class now. And it was a very, very hard test. And I ended up getting a very bad grade on it. And I went home and I showed my mom. My mom was obviously disappointed. She was like annoyed with me. She was like, why didn't you study harder? And she asked me a question. I don't know what compelled her to ask me. That she goes, well, did it ever occur to you when you were taking this test that you didn't know the answers when you didn't know the answers like to just like cheat off of someone else? And I looked her straight in the eye and I said, well, why would I cheat off of someone else? They're not smarter than me. And she was like, where did this confidence come from? But I think it's this belief that like not that I'm actually smarter than other people. But like I've outworked everybody. I feel in my life. Like people don't want it as much. But I do. I remember there were like when I first started creating social media content, there were other people who had larger followings, more locked in communities. They were making content. And so many of them have stopped. Why? Because content takes time to make. Ideation is a slog. You were on a hamster wheel. But I feel like I have a higher pain tolerance than other people. I'm willing to work harder. I'm willing to work for longer, for harder. And I will put in the elbow grease if I know it's going to pay off. And I deeply believe that it does because everything in my life has shown me that the harder I work, the better outcome I get. And because I proved it to myself, I keep believing it. Keep doing it too. Keep believing it and you keep acting on it. I love that. What we just say is the one financial habit that separates the lower or middle class from the upper class. Buying liabilities versus assets. To put it simply, I feel like the lower middle class buys stuff. They buy stuff that loses value over time or costs them money. And they do it to look rich. But the really wealthy people, they will buy a fugly duplex in some no-name town. And then they will flip it. They will make it nice. They'll run it out. Now they have an income generating thing. They're not buying stuff. This isn't the Gucci sweater. This is something that makes you money. And rich people love to use this strategy. It's called bivarodi. So they buy these assets. Do you like this strategy? Do I like it? I think it's smart. Do I think it's ethical? No. But I also don't think it is on them to not use this strategy. I think it is on our legislators to make certain loopholes less easy to exploit. Because I feel like whatever system currently exists, everyone should be using it to the best of their ability to get what they want out of life. That is the only thing I can say. So what is this strategy that the wealthy do different than? So it's called bivarodi. So regular people, they buy stuff. And they buy, if they're lucky, 75 years of stuff. And then they're like, ah, it's tough. Cool. That stuff probably not. Rich people, they go buy, that should be duplex I totally bought, it's ugly. And they buy, you know, something not that exciting, maybe a full portfolio of index ones. Nothing, nothing that they can show on their Instagram. Okay. But they buy these assets. And what people don't realize is that the folks at the bottom, they work really, really hard to buy stuff. But before they can buy that stuff, the government takes a huge cut because that is income, that is earned income. So you know, if you're in the top tax bracket, that's like 30, some percent effective, net effective. And then you probably have to pay state and local income taxes to average person. Even so, you're still probably giving up about a third of it. Then you go buy yourself rich people. They know that they are going to buy these assets. All right. And this is with money that they did have to pay that tax on. But they want to stop paying that tax as soon as possible. So what they do is they then build this asset portfolio that is monstrous. And then they borrow against it because guess what? Even if they sold some of their equities or their stocks, the max tax they would have have to pay on it is 20. So you're already doing better than the third, but they're not even going to sell it. They are going to borrow against it because guess what? Debt is not counted as income. You don't get taxed on debt you take out. They use that debt and then they live their life. They get to do their fun things and they oftentimes get interest only loans. So they're very small payments that you actually have to make back. You just keep the loan outstanding. They have more and more assets. Their assets continue to grow in value. The bank continues to lend them at a very, very low interest rate because they're so rich. And then the dying part, very key. Okay. They have. When you die, what happens? When you die. This is why we talk about this in my book Well and Doubt. The estate plan is so, so key because what they do is they have this trust. Okay. So this trust holds all the assets and then that trust passes those things, those amazing money making things down to the next generation. Tax-free. Here's how it works. It is inherited at something called a stepped up basis. Okay. So if you are my dad. Okay. You buy something for $10. It appreciates. It appreciates to $1,000. You give it to me during your lifetime and I sell it. The gain on that sale is $990. And I have to pay taxes on that $990. But if I give it to you when I die. If you are already dead. Yeah. And then you inherit. And then I get it. The asset gets remarked to market. What's that mean? So the cost that I bought it at is the thousand. So it's not the 10 that you actually bought it at. My purchase price is a thousand. So if I buy it at a thousand, because I inherited it from you at a thousand, and then I immediately sell it, what is the gain on that? Nothing. It looks like I made no money. Wow. I don't pay taxes on it. I pay off my Papa's estate debt. Debt. But all gets done. And then I have this money. I have these assets that make money. And I'm going to borrow against them. Because I am your very, very rich daughter. And I've learned these things because the generational wealth is the generational knowledge. Say that again. The generational wealth is the generational knowledge. Wow. What is, I mean, so that's all about bidding a trust then that and assets that are in that trust and then borrowing against it. And never selling your assets. Why would I sell my assets? I can take a loan. Right. I love loans. I love debt. Rich people love debt. It's crazy. But I think, isn't there something around debt that scares a lot of people too that they have to all, what if, what if there is a crash and you have to actually pay off all that debt at one point and you don't have the money? Then what? There's a fear around this anxiety of like, I've got all this debt and these payments. Can I pay them off? That's why there's diversification. Because I'm not just holding an equity portfolio. I've got maybe some crypto in there. I've got maybe a real estate portfolio in there. I've got collectible art. I've got all of this other stuff in there. And these markets are more often than not indirectly correlated. When there is a market crash, oftentimes you'll see certain things of tangible value go up. So things like gold, cryptocurrencies considered more like decentralized. So that actually performs better when the market's not doing as well. So it's like, rare art, jewelry, car, exactly. They all do well when the market is down. So when one is down, the other is up. When the other is up, the other is down. But your portfolio over time continues to be. And you're not buying stuff, you're buying assets. Assets. Well, stuff and assets are very different. Stuff is the baseline model, like classic original recipe, Burk and Bag. Okay. So many people have them. You can literally find stores with four dozen of them in Japan on the secondary market. Not special. What is an asset? Something special. An asset is the Tiffany Blue. Like I can't even remember if it was the Patuk Philippe or the, you know, Audemars Piguet, like watch. I'm not a watch person. I'm not fancy enough to know all this. But like, they made like Aedom. There's only Aedom in the world. You're going to tell me those are going to go down in value. You're going to tell me that's not the holy. Grail for every big watch collector on earth. Yeah. So you got married two years ago or last year? We got married a little over a year ago. A little over a year ago. What are, what are a few things that you learned about money after getting married that you wish you knew before? Specifically, I would say about the wedding process is. It's way more expensive than you think. It's way more expensive than you think. I went, I was like nearly three X my budget. Oh, yeah. I was like, what the hell? And it's, you know, I don't know if you've watched Lee Glee Blonde. The movie? Yeah. I mean, it was like 20 years ago, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Of course. So there's this scene where the Reese Witherspoon is defending this, you know, Pilatee or like she's like a workout instructor in court. And she was like, I need an alibi. What were you doing that day? And she's like, I was getting liposuction. And she's like, liposuction. And I feel like that when I talk about wedding budgeting because I feel like such a fraud. Because I tell everyone like, oh, set a budget. I said a budget and I went past it. I blew past it twice. And I think the frustration is is that like we realize that money is so much more emotional than we even gave it credit for. Like my husband and I have never fought about money. Because we have had an open line of communication about our finances so very early on. I lived in a Roach infested apartment. I had to tell him how much I was making because I had to move out. I had to break my lease. I didn't have any money. Long story short, we talked about money probably 30 days into dating each other. From first date to 30 days in, I told him everything. That's great. We've never ever fought about money. But during the wedding planning process and agreeing to stuff, there were some tense moments, I will say. Because I think for him, our wedding was like a climax moment to maybe show the world what he had accomplished. And for me, I don't know if I needed that. But I think there's a lot more ways for women to flex than there are men. So like if you actually think about it, right? Like women, we can buy shoes, we can buy bags, we can buy clothes, we can do our hair nice, we can do our makeup. What is like something that men flex with? Maybe a car or a washroom or something like that, right? Exactly. I almost I guess if you bought a house, maybe. You know what? He tells me he's like, well, I bought you a really big ring. And when I bring you around and people see how big your ring is, that is a flex for me. That's true. And so I think for him, there are so few moments in his life where he gets to celebrate. And so he wanted some big things. Private fireworks. You got to pay a guy to go off on a little boat and like shoot stuff. Like that's very expensive. Yeah. Like as man is risking his life. And it is very expensive per minute that the fireworks are going off. They charge you by the minute. They he wanted, you know, the upper level food and the like 10 person band and the amazing quartet orchestra. Well, he was walking with his mom down the aisle. He wanted all these things. And at a certain point, I was like, you are so wasteful. I can't believe you want this. Like why? Why? Why? And it wasn't until I realized that like he had never been able to celebrate all of his accomplishments in the way that I had that I finally realized it wasn't about the money. It wasn't about the wedding. It was about being able to say that like, I'm in a position in my life that I never thought possible. I want to celebrate with somebody who I've committed my entire life to. And in part, we want to make sure that it's a memorable experience for all of the people who are asking to come halfway across the world to Italy too. And it wasn't until he explained it to me like that that I was like, okay, well now I feel bad. Well, now I feel like the dirt bad. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's, you know, something that I give advice to everybody and I say this in my book, when you are talking to your partner, one of the first conversations needs to be on it. Yeah. Date one. Yes. Date one. To know who you're getting into relationship with. We talked about this before, but do you think every couple that is going to get married should get a, gosh, a prenup. Yeah. You think every couple should be. Hell yeah. Why should women want a prenump and men want a prenump when getting married? Because and I will give you the same answer and it is not changed. And in fact, I feel even strongly, more strongly about it because now I have one. Do you trust the government? Yes or no? No, not fully. Right. I mean, maybe there's some things that are going to be out yet. I don't care if you're left. I don't care if you're right. I don't care if you're center. Yeah. You don't agree with everything our government does. Sure. Why would you let the government dictate how you and your partner go through the most challenging experience you will likely face together and then separate you to. Why? Mm hmm. All a prenup is, is not you saying I don't trust my partner. It's saying I don't trust the government. I want to sit down with my boo on a sunny day, on a day when we still really like each other. We are madly in love and talk about how will we make sure that we are kind and fair to each other in the worst case scenario? Cash, but most women don't like thinking about divorce. They don't want to go into a conversation saying why are we going to talk about divorce? I don't want to get divorced to you. I don't want to think about getting into a car wreck. Do you still have car insurance? 100%. But talk to a woman who's emotionally not thinking about getting into divorce, the emotions come out sometimes. But I think there are things that people aren't realizing. Being in a relationship is so much more expensive for a woman than a man. Because more often than not, if you're the one having the child, you can't work for a while. You can't work for a while. And that's not just the amount of time off or whatever that you lose out on that income. That what that income could have compounded over the course of your lifetime. And there are things like, oh, well, if I spend a decade of my life being the household CEO, I prefer that versus a state homeless because you really are the CEO of the house. You are the chef, the chauffeur, you are the maid, you are the person who is the project manager, you are doing it all. You're doing it all. You really are doing it all. If you're doing all that unpaid labor, which by the way, the unpaid labor accounted for at a global society is in the trillions, we just don't really factor it in because most of the time it's done by women. And we don't value their time the same as we do men's. And so I would say having a prenup where you have already agreed that you will get a mom salary so that you can have your own money. So even if you are a stay at home parent, you still have your own money because 99% of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. Interesting. It's important you have what you have your own money that is in your bank account. Nobody else's name is on it. Maybe you want to ensure that you will have spousal support because you are giving up your career to perhaps move across the country to help support this person and their business. You want to make sure that your children are taken care of. You want to make sure that regardless of what happens, neither party should be left you know a destitute and neither party should be left a robber baron, right? Like you are trying to come to an agreement that's fair. Yes. And that's really all it is. Yeah. You want to be fair to your partner. Do you like your partner? Because if you like your partner, you're not trying to screw them over. And that's why we have this conversation and we do this process when you still like each other. So important in my wife, Martha, went through that and I think I fell in love with her way more once we went through the whole process. One, you know, we were very open about everything, but it forces you to fully share every. You have to get financially naked. Every banks, you know, that you have anywhere you have money or any assets. And there were a few things that we just forgot to share with each other. It's not like we were hiding from each other. And it's like we really had to document everything. It gave me more financial clarity. I was like, oh, I'm actually organizing my stuff because I have stuff everywhere. It helped me. It helped her. And then we were able to look at things together. I was like, wow, you've actually made a lot of money. I was like, that's pretty good. You know, I was like, I was impressed. I was like, amazing. And in particular, for your wife, who is a huge success, has a, you know, huge business, has multiple streams of income, taking on the role of a household CEO, even just to like make herself uncomfortable for nine months. Let's be honest. Like pregnancy, you're vomiting in the morning. It's a lot. You are twice the size that you normally are. Like she wasn't comfortable for nine months. Yeah. And I think that like we have to acknowledge the value and the cost of that. 100%. Because that is a huge contribution to your family. 100%. My legacy, my love, everything, everything. And it's not just nine months and then you're back to normal. No. It's like months for her to recover and heal and all these different things. I mean, what do you forget? Childbirth is also like a surgical procedure. It was, it was scary. Yeah, it was scary. I mean, did you pass out? No, I was pretty good. That was pretty, I was in the zone. I was like athlete mode. Okay. I'm going to ask her and see again, get her opinion the next time I see her. It might be different. I think she's just saying, I mean, I was, it's crazy. I haven't talked about it yet. But it was, I mean, she went to the ER twice within the last month after giving birth. Yeah. It was scary. I mean, it was like life or death, scary. And she's now in a much better place and really recovering, but she still needs months of recovery. Of course. Of course. Where she's not able to go do normal working things, but it's a lot of women to be a mom. Yeah. And I think it's like a two year journey. I'm not saying you can't work leading into pregnancy and being pregnant. You can still work, but it takes a lot more toll on your body, on your emotions, on your mindset. And I think we just have to be more aware of that with women. It's a lot. Yeah. A physically emotionally, it is a lot. It's a lot of the guys too. I mean, it is. I've been in the hospital for the whole month trying to support her. It's like, I'm away from work too, but it's like it's even more so on her. So the thing that I that I'm interested in is generational wealth that we're talking about. Yeah. When someone who is broke, here's this word generational wealth. It seems so far away. It seems so unrealistic. It seems like that's not for me. How could I even think that way? If someone's broke or struggling financially, and they have the possibility in the future to create generational wealth, what do they need to start changing around in their mindset and their daily habits in order to set themselves up for that in the future? Yeah. I think there can be a big woe is in the attitude of if you're not born into generational wealth. It's rude or something. You're like so resentful. The thing that bothers me is that like people want, everybody wants to have generational wealth, but we hate seeing it in use. Why is that? We're jealous of people in our lives. We're jealous. It's jealousy. We want it, but we hate people that have it. Exactly. But we wanted ourselves. It's hard to get something that you hate in someone else. Correct. Right? Correct. If you hate someone else having it, but you want it, it's hard for you to attract that. Yes. But I think we need to reframe this around. You may not have been born with generational wealth, but to have generational wealth, you might be the generation who has to make it. Yes. And I say this and I joke and I'm like, yeah, unfortunately, I'm the one in the family tree who has to be the one who like really plants the seeds. Yes. And I may not actually ever get to taste the fruit. Gosh, but you're the one who started it. You're set up your family tree for generational wealth. Someone's got to be the one. Someone has to do it. Like, there is always, unfortunately, someone who has to be the one who makes the money. Because you can't just have inheritance and inheritance inheritance. At some point, up the tree, someone did it. Someone did it. Someone stuck. They came from nothing to something. They went on the skinny branches. They risked. Yes. They put their life on the line, their career on the line. They went broke multiple times to create that freedom for themselves. Correct. And they were willing to endure the pain like you've been willing to do. Yeah. They got knowledge. They found a mentor. They maybe got a couple lucky breaks and they went hard on that luck. Yeah. And you know what else? This is the craziest thing. You know, most generational wealth actually doesn't last past three generations. Why? Because the knowledge doesn't pass. So basically, it's like, you've got the generation that makes the money, right? They work hard. Something. Perhaps it's the next generation that saw their parents work really, really hard. So then they actually expand on the business. They're doing a really great job, but they've always lived a decently comfortable life. Yeah. They didn't struggle like they were. They didn't struggle. And then the third generation, they see nothing but privilege. They have never struggled. They also haven't had the knowledge of the struggle passed down. So like, you have to do this. You have to do that. Like, watch out for this pitfall. Like, they've always lived life on Easy Street. And if you live life on Easy Street, it's very easy to get swindled. Interesting. So the third generation typically is where things kind of fall apart. So how do grandparents who create the generational wealth in the first place pass down the knowledge for the third, fourth, fifth generation to sustain it and grow it? Well, one, I think it's passing down that knowledge, making financial literacy an important part of your family. Like, I have every intention of giving my kids an allowance and then taxing it. Hmm. Be like, okay, your allowance is $10. Got to pay taxes this week. $2 back. Wow. And then they feel the pain. They feel the pain. You don't want to just give them eight. You want to give them 10 and then make them give you two back and put two into a jar. And that jar is the public goods jar. And maybe once that jar gets to a certain point, the whole family gets to go out for ice cream or the whole family gets to go do movie night. But it's a public good jar. It's not just you. So even if you're mad at your sister that day, we're going to get ice cream and she's getting one too. So you have to understand how public goods work. But also it is about making so that they are guardrails. So you give them enough rope to climb and I kind of hate this metaphor, but you give them enough rope to climb, but you don't give them enough to hang themselves. It is about making sure that they are getting money and knowledge. But it's not enough to just say, all right, you're 18. Here's your trust fund. Because you know the trope, right? All these deadbeat kids who spend all day on their couch, they know they don't have to work, they don't have to get a job, they don't have to make something of themselves. They have no ambitions because everything in their entire life has been handed to them on a silver platter. I would hate for my kid's stand like that. So the thought is, if you have a trust, if you have a living will, if you have all of these estate planning documents set up in the right way, you can be very, very specific. Yes. And say, at age 18, you will get X amount of money specifically earmarked to be used for your education, whether that's trade school, culinary school, going to college, whatever you want to be. If you don't use that money on these specific purposes, go back in the pot, or maybe it gets donated charity. Say my kid, I mean, I don't know if this would even be a realm of reality, but they turn into an amazing YouTuber at 17. They don't want to go to college. Fine. If you're making a million bucks a year, I'm not going to force you to go to college. But like, if that money doesn't go to them based on exactly how I've outlined, they're not getting it. Okay. But 21 rolls round, you're going to get a little bit of money, maybe to help you with your first apartment, or get you a car, not a Maserati, but like a Volvo, something that's a lot of civic. A Honda Civic. A Toyota Camry. And get them something practical. But that's not like some lemon that you got that has 150,000 miles on it, because I don't want my kid driving around in a death trap. And so you can earmark these things, and it's like, okay, maybe when you turn 30, we will give you a little bit more. Or you will get a certain amount upon which you get married, but there needs to be a pre-nuptial agreement in place. You can literally dictate how you want your money to be used, because damn, if I'm not going to have a say, I'm the one who made it. Yeah. I'm the generation who had to make it. Absolutely. So you're not going to lose it. You're not going to lose my money. And if you end up being a loser deadbeat, I'm going to have something called a skip generation. And all that money is just going to your kids. And if you don't have kids, it's going to a charity. Wow. And a lot of really, really smart business people actually have this in place. And I think there was this Japanese company where the grandfather who built the company, had a skip level generation, where all of the money went to the grandkids, but all of the ownership in the business went to the parents. Interesting. So, both the parents were incentivized to work hard, but the kids were also forced to learn the business of the company. And it's like there's really creative ways that you can do this. It's beautiful. To make sure. And that's all through the trust that you build, right? Yeah. And there's so many different types. And I really encourage people to talk to an estate planning attorney to see what actually makes sense for them. Absolutely. You talk a lot about all these strategies in your book, well, in doubt. Make sure you guys get a top here. This one of them is about navigating life's biggest financial decisions around marriage, kids, home ownership, all these things you're talking about right now. What do you think couples do wrong when they try to combine their finances? What's a mistake they make when they do that? Well, they're doing it at engagement. Hello. What happened to the dating period? Like there's some, there's a stat out there and I can't quote the exact number, but I want to say it's like 48% of couples don't actually talk about money until they're engaged. What? Should be the first month. Should be the first, a friend of the, I say it's the first date. First date. You can ask a question that's like, oh, hey, if you had a, if you got a million dollars tomorrow, what would you do? That's not a show me your W2. That's very much like a fun first date question. It doesn't feel out of the norm. It doesn't feel like, you know, kind of a pressurey thing. It's just a fun exercise to see what this person is like. But you get to start talking about money early and you know what it means to that person. Are they opening up their own bakery because they've always had a passion for baking? Or are they going to go buy a duplicated apartment because they really want to start making passive income? Do they, you know, do they like tell me what they do? And so I think when couples wait too late, you end up marrying people who you are not financially compatible with, people who do not value a dollar the same way you do. And that ends up becoming a big problem. And I think in part why there are so many irreconcilable differences in some couples in the same way that like politics or religion or do you want to have kids yes or no? Those are kind of deal breaker questions. I think how you think about money and how your relationship with money is is a deal breaker question. Do you think couples can last if they love each other, but they don't have the same values around money? Lewis, do you think love is enough? No. I don't. I don't either. I don't. Because guess what? Sure. You can last through the honeymoon period. Sure. You might be able to last the first five years. If I have the great love story that I'm hoping to have, it is going to be like 70 years. Yeah. Right. I got married at 30. If we get to 100, that's 70 years. You're going to tell me that love is going to carry us for seven years. Are you like, are you joking? No. Are you crazy? Like I truly believe that you have to work out a relationship to want it. The grass is greener where you, where you water it. And I treat my relationship like a business, my business, the business that I pour all of my energy and my time and my love and my adoration into. I give my relationship the same kind of care. And I know that doesn't sound romantic, but I build smart systems. I keep the right people on staff. I take time to really evaluate. I do a quarterly business review, but also quarterly financial review with my partner. Like I treat my relationship like a business. And if we took it as serious as we do making a business, fewer people will get divorced. Yeah. How many people do you think, I don't know if there's a stat around this, but how many people do you think die every year around money stress or money problems or money issues? I mean, I wish I had the stat because that would be really, really powerful. But financial anxiety is one of the worst and most pervasive things because it doesn't turn off. Hmm. Say you have anxiety in your relationship. When you go to, you know, see your boys, you don't, you don't think about, you know, the old ball and chain for, right? You get a little break. You get a little break. Yeah. But if you have problems with your money, you feel it at home, you feel it at the grocery store, you feel it at work, you feel it when you go to do anything fun because you're not sure if you can afford it, it is constant. It's like suffocating you. Always. And it's on your phone. Yeah. Imagine not being able to escape. It's on your phone. In terms of like, look what everyone else has and I don't have it. Correct. And I can't afford it. It's like, it takes over your nervous system. Correct. You're on fight or flight all the time. You could be lonely and depressed by not having a relationship or have other challenges or not have a career, but if you don't have your money, if you don't have harmony around it or some type of healthy relationship around money, it really suffocates you. Yeah. And I go back to the beginning of this conversation where you were just like, what good things happen to girls like me or something like that. Yeah. I think you have to really shift your mindset around it. Even if you don't see the evidence yet, that good things are happening to you. Maybe they haven't happened to you. But at some point you have to shift and start thinking and speaking in a different way about yourself. She can start seeing the evidence in real life, even with small little acts that are happening to reinforce. Look, good things do happen to me. I just found a penny. Good things happen to me. Someone just smiled at me. Good things happen to me. Whatever it is, we've got to reinforce it. It's why I really hate it when people are like, oh, I'm bad with money. You're not. You're on your money journey. You're starting your money journey. Doesn't that feel like so much more empowering? You are taking the first step in the right direction versus like, yeah, you're bad and that will be that forever. Like, I don't want to hear that. No. I'm learning. I'm learning. Developing. I'm excited about the journey. I'm still excited about learning Spanish. I'm not bad at Spanish. I'm still learning Spanish. I'm still learning Spanish. I love this Vivian. Your book is really powerful. It's called Well Endowed, the Secrets to Strategic Spending, Building a Financial Foundation for You and Your Family and Creating Lasting Generational Wealth. Make sure you guys get a copy or two. Grab some for your friend. You're trying to understand money more and feel more financially at peace. This is the book to get started. You've got a lot of great content on social media. And I love that you also said because I'm in like a next phase of my content journey. Yeah. I've been doing it for 15, 17 years of creating content. I mean, look at this beautiful office. Right. 13 years are doing the podcast every week for 13 years. And I'm in a whole new phase of like doubling down in creating content and really like leveling up with my own personal content as well. So you inspire me that you say you're willing to work harder, ideate stronger and keep like grinding it out for longer, for longer, even when not everything is going viral. It's like you keep showing up. And I see that in your content on social media and I dig that about you. I dig it about you. You do it amazing. I asked you these questions before in our previous episode. I'm curious your perspective now a couple of years later. If this was, if you got to live that 70 year relationship journey, but for whatever reason it's the last day on earth for you many, many years away. And you got to accomplish all your dreams and all your goals personally, professionally and all came true. But for whatever reason, all of your content had to go with you, all of your books had to go with you. And we didn't have access to that content anymore. But you could leave behind three lessons to the world, three things, three things you knew to be true personally, professionally, whatever might be, what would those three truths be for you? Okay. First one, you are partners, the most important financial decision you'll ever make. This is the person that you are going to literally navigate this world. It is hard enough as it is. You better pick someone who is your number one cheerleader and thinks the sun shines out of your butt. Because if you have a hater at home, you won't accomplish anything. That's a rain cloud at home. Snap. Two, I would say if you want to live in a village, you have to be a villager. I think so many of us have fought like the favors economy. We've given up on it. In our parents generation, if I needed to go to the airport at 6 a.m., I'd be like, hello neighbor Lewis, will you drive me to the airport at 6 a.m.? And what used to do it? You would be annoyed. Because it'd be early, but you do it. And then- I know I could count on you to watch my dog. Exactly. The next week when you were out of town, I would walk, you know, like Ranger and Ranger and I would go on a walk, even though it meant that I might have to come home from work a little bit earlier. Fine. We would do each other these little favors. But now these favors have been replaced by companies. And now you were spending an arm and a leg for thing that our communities used to do for us. Interesting. We got, you know, the apps that you can on demand get taken somewhere. You have these apps that can on demand come walk your dog or bring you food or do these things. And we don't have to care for each other in the way that we did. And when we don't foster that community, we don't show up to the PTA bake sale. We don't go to the housewarming. We don't bring over a bottle of wine on a Thursday night. Like we lose the village because we are not being villagers. Mm. You just say you're a good villager? No. No, I'm terrible. I think we could all certainly afford to be better. Yeah. I think I was a really good villager in college because I lived within a, you know, one mile, one mile radius of every single one of my best friends. I would show up for them. I would make time. But I also had so much more time. Yeah. Now you don't. And now I don't. And I am certainly someone who is a high earner have outsourced so many parts of my life in a way that sometimes I look and I'm like, oh man, it feels a little empty. Really? Yeah. It's not empty or lack of community. A lack of community. And I only feel it again and that warmth and that joy is like when I truly spend time with my girlfriends. Really? Yeah. Wow. It's really important to have that community. There are things that I can talk to them about that I can't like, it's not that my husband doesn't understand. It's different. It's different. Yeah. And it's good to have. Of course. It's both hand. Yeah. Interesting. So do you feel like you will actually reinvest in being a good villager in the tree tree? I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm seeing you got a lot of projects and you're creating and you're marrying. I think something that I did a really good job of is I just moved in Miami. I'm in a new building and I'm so devastated because this new building, it's wonderful. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. You're looking at the other ship. Yeah. Everything's amazing. But I'm devastated to be in this new building because the average age of the resident is younger than my last building. I would say the average age is probably 40, maybe early 50s and you're like younger. The last building I was in, the average age was like 70. And it was so easy to build community. I would go to Pilates the same time twice and somebody would be like, what's your name? Because these are people who came up in the favor's economy. There was one time, one lady handed me a bag and she was like, I live in the South Tower, but you live in the North Tower. Can you go bring this banana bread to somebody? I don't know this person, but yeah, I'll do it for you because you have now pressured me into doing this for you. And there was one time I was actually, I had gotten off of the wait list for a workout class. All of these 70-year-old women are stronger than me, more physically than me. It's fine. I got a text and it was like, 15. You're running late for this workout class. Like do you want me to save you a map? A spot. Yeah. Am I late for this class? But two, it would never occur to me to text someone that I don't really know that well. These aren't my best friends. These are women that I met and had good conversations with. And I was like, wow, she really thought of me in that way. And she knew I was coming because I had come every Saturday prior to this. And so I think I could certainly do a better job fostering community. There are certainly situations where community is easier to build because everybody is so community-minded. And I think I'm going to be chasing that high for quite some time. One time. Okay. Yeah. And the third truth. And the third truth is this, at the end of the day, nobody is coming to save you. I am going to sit here and be the first person to tell you it ain't fair. Life ain't fair. Some people are born on third base. Some people are out in the parking lot with the person who is selling those illegal hot dogs that does not have a vendor's license. Fine. But just because our current society is not perfect, just because it severely needs legislative change to make the financial system more fair, it does not mean that you can lose hope. You still have to have hope. You still have to believe with every fiber of your being that you can improve your station in life, no matter where you start, you can end better. And here's a little tricky thing. I recently got the pleasure of interviewing Sean White. And I took away from this interview that Sean White is most possibly the pettiest man I've ever met in my life. How many why? Because he holds a grudge. He does not ever forget his enemies. And when someone told him that he couldn't do something or like, you know, he had a adversary at some competition, whatever, he would hold it in his head and he would use it as high octane fuel to give him hope and to power that hope with rocket power, rocket fuel to accomplish it, to prove them wrong, to be the best. And he jokes about it because he's like, these people probably didn't even know we were beefing. It was one side of me. I made it up in my head. But because he had something that was powering and firing his engine, he was able to keep going to do better for longer. And so don't lose hope and always have something that's feeling you. That's great. Your rich BFF over on social media, make sure to follow you, get the book Wellendowed. You can get the book Wellendowed at richbffbook.com. Richbffbook.com. I have one final question for you before I ask it, Vivian. I want to acknowledge you because the last time I saw you was a couple years ago on my show, then I came on your show for my book Make One Easy. And I want to acknowledge you because of your energy. I feel like I shifted each time I've seen you. You think? I really believe it. And there's something inside of you that shifted, you know, not like you were horrible or something before. But I see, I see you elevating yourself and reinvesting in your health. And I think we mentioned this briefly that there's a lot of wealthy people in the world who are not healthy people in their relationships or in their actual physical health. I want to acknowledge you for setting a standard. You talked about the mentor that you had that if you didn't have her, you want to be where you're at. And there's a lot of specifically women in the world who follow you that you're their big sister, you're their mentor. And because you're willing to invest in your health, they're seeing that as well. And they're probably making conscious decisions for their health also. Yeah. So you're not only helping people become wealthier with their money, but also wealthier with their health. I think that's the most important health, most important wealth in the world. So I acknowledge you for being on that journey. Thank you. It's hard. You got a lot of things going on. You're doing books. You're working at top. You're doing all these different things. And a lot of people make the excuse of, I've got too much on my plate. I can't go to the gym in the morning. I can't do it at night or I don't have time. And I think that's the most important thing is to invest your time in your health and your relationships. So I acknowledge you for that. Thank you. Shout out to my trainer. There you go. Shout out to your trainer. We're shout out to you for constantly showing up. Your trainer can guide you and push you harder, but you have to show up to the workout. You have to make the time. You have to not make excuses. Yeah. And so I acknowledge you. Yes. Yeah. The team supports you, but you got to make the decision every day to show up. So I acknowledge you for that. And shout out to the trainer. Final question, Vivian. What's your definition of greatness? You know, I feel like it's changed over the years. And if I'm honest, I think I said that the last time you asked me this question too. All of you know? It continues to change. But I think greatness for me now is being able to get to a point where I can just do whatever I want. Like it's all about getting to do stuff and not having to do stuff. Like I think for a very long time, I felt like I had to do this. I had to do that because I wanted a certain amount of wealth. The miracle wealth in my bank account. And I'm not there. I'm not to my FU number yet. Let me be very, very clear. I'm not there. But I'm getting closer. And the closer I get, the more I'm realizing, I get to choose me and I get to choose how I show up every single day. And I think if I keep saying yes to stuff that drains my energy or drains me, I don't then get to show up my best for the things I'm actually looking forward to. And so greatness for me is eventually being able to have the full freedom financially and also in my time to live unencumbered. Like I don't want money to be a decision, like be part of my decision making process. I just want to be able to do it because I love it. No, there you go. Vivian, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly, exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.