Matt Quinn of Mt. Joy

Because this is something I think about with trying to grow Mount Joy. Yeah. How do we, what's the next thing? And I think sometimes it's just that it's just like when you're a band coming up, it's like, why do people go to sports games? It's like sports does is genius in the sense that the event itself is about achieving something. It's like, I'm trying to achieve this thing. Will there, won't they? Reality TV, let's find out. Yeah. In music, when you're coming up, you have that. Will they put on an excellent show tonight? Will they make it? Will this show move them to the next level? Like, will this, you know, can I go tell my friends like this band's this, this. So once you make it, you have this problem where it's like, well, now I'm just up here doing it again. Yeah. But what is the achievement? What is happening tonight that is transcending to the crowd that like they're doing it? What is that it? I always have these like long philosophical discussions with my brother in the morning. Nice. A little morning routine, at least like a couple of times a week. Nice. And who's a good one today? OK, well, there's a lot, there's a lot to get on about. I suppose a lot of things to think about. Yeah. But I was listening to you guys live at Red Rocks. Really good. Yeah, thanks, man. Good recording. Thanks, man. Actually, our front of house engineer mixed that, which I think is like a, we've never done that since. So I shouldn't say like that's an amazing thing, but kind of an amazing thing. Because he, he knew like what he wanted it to sound like. I think it's worked out. I actually feel like good live recordings. I feel like no one does it enough and it's it's easier now. Like there's more technology so you can record like more and maybe more people do it than I than I'm aware of. But I feel like no one releases it enough. I feel like we're going there and you guys are a band actually that could do it. Where you record as many shows as you can and you release those all the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, you know, I grew up like. So I grew up, I'm still a huge Grateful Dead fan. And so like there's a little bit of that, like in our music, just probably from, I don't think we sound like the Grateful Dead per se, but. I'm just sort of like trying to learn from the stuff they did really well. A little Grateful Dead in there. Yeah. Feels a little bit like. It's like if you squint with both. Dead stuff in there. If you squint with both eyes. Yeah. Not like a one-eyed squint. You know, it's like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think, I think just trying to learn from them. And the challenge, I think for us is like, because I think we'd like to do that. Is like, we vary our sets. Like each night is definitely different, but we're not like. A full experimental. Jam band. Jam band in that way where it's like, oh, we'll put out Tuesday's show. It's going to sound pretty similar, probably to other shows. So it's in that way. We kind of feel like we have to pick our spots, but. Or at least one of its whore. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, that's probably right. Yeah. Which is probably more realistic anyways. Because if you want to do it right, promote it and make it feel like special. Which I think also I learned then when I got older, but like you look back at all everything you put out, everything you release and you don't think about it at the time when you're young, but like it's your body of work. It's your, it's your book. It's your legacy. And you should try and no matter how you release things, I think at an older age. Cause I don't know how old you are, but I'm way older than you. 35. Okay. So I'm 11 years older than you. So I thought you were like, you're doing good, man. I kind of want to let you go. You look young. Really? Okay. I'm moisturized this morning. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So did I. It's working. Sweet. You look back and go, I wish I would have maybe just taken a little more time or put a little more, been a little bit more hyper focused in the process. Around releasing that or releasing that. Cause then, cause you eat once, it's not that you shouldn't release everything you want, but I think like you start to look, you look back and it's all stacked up and you can see the moments where you weren't locked in. At least I can. Yeah. And so taking the time around every release, even if it's like a live record or whatever is worth, is worth the effort. Yeah. I think of that both ways though, being kind of in it, like right now making, I'm going to head to the studio after this. It's like, I kind of find that it's like, and maybe it's easy to look back and think that cause it's like in the moment, there's a lot going on and you have to protect your like mental and not be so like too locked in where it's like you're overthinking everything. Yeah. You're neurotic obsessive. There's a line there. And I think like, you know, I guess like live album and stuff, it's like, yeah, you do want to put the proper like, it's like marketing mechanics or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But like the actual music stuff, I think it's hard to be like, I got to lock in more like for me anyway, because it's like, I think some of the best stuff is just like the reason you started playing music was it wasn't like you were like the most locked in or something. It was just like you were making stuff and there was a freedom to that. So there is a line there. It's like, you know, like you're right. Yeah. I think you just answered my question. I was one of the things I was thinking about today was that I was looking back a little too much. Yeah. And I was criticizing some things. Yeah. I think like the best music is like, and it's sort of impossible to create when you're like trying to lock in in a way because it's like, it's this freedom that like something that feels free and you can't really replicate that when, and I think that's what's hard. Like this is our, this will be our fifth album. If it's an album, I don't know. We're just making songs at this point. But like, it's like, you're like, oh, let's do like what we did before because that was really successful, which is like, at that point, you're like chasing your tail a little bit where it's like, I think before we weren't thinking about any sort of future or anything. It's like, we were just making stuff and cracking jokes and, you know, doing whatever. And that was the alchemy there. So it's like to act like we were super locked in there is like, I think we were hungry. And you wanted to do something great. Yeah. But we weren't like, man, like, I definitely think more about like lyrics and stuff like that. Now that I did then people are like, Oh, these are great lyrics. I'm like, I don't know. I don't think that whatever. So I think it's always really hard to like judge yourself. You did great. You know, that's clearly like you did great. Like, you know, so. Oh, me? Yeah. Oh, thank you, man. That's really nice. You're doing great. Oh, well, thanks, man. Um, I think you're right. So you guys have accomplished a lot in what I would say it probably has gone by really fast. I mean, 10 years is it's a long time, but it's not a long time. So I look at your your your band and I don't think of you guys as a new band, but you're not an old band. Sure. And you've accomplished a lot in a time when I was thinking about it today. I'm thinking you guys came on my radar probably in like 2022, maybe. OK. And then last year was like a real like you guys really emerged to another level of like cultural awareness of like music fans. And I think also you probably as a band felt like all those years starting to hit like momentum where like on stage you can feel it. You can feel the experience. I think 10 years is a is a is a good amount of time for a band to become like fully mature as a group in like their craft, you know, which is what I think you guys the only way you get to like the big shows, right? Let's say you sell out. You guys sold out Madison Square Gardens. You sold out Red Rocks. Sold out the Greek. You sold out all these big venues. Really hard to do, especially the moment you're at now, you're making this record or making this project or making this music that you're making now, whatever it becomes, it'll probably be a record. But you did that against probably like a decade of an environment that wasn't really conducive to your success. Yeah. And somewhere in the you know, in the last few years, music's turned a corner and you guys have been here, though, doing what you do. Yeah. So it's interesting to me that you guys start up and obviously you probably had a main I don't know if you've been in other bands or what you've been what your journey was, but you started in a very unfriendly time for live in bands and all that. And then you had to go through COVID and then you had to all that. So it's interesting that you guys have survived all that as a band and thrived actually in a time where not a ton of bands were it wasn't easy to. Yeah. I mean, I think you nailed like kind of all of it. I think I'll always say like a big portion of its luck because like I know that first hand I tried like you said, I I tried for like, you know, when this thing started, I was like 20, 25, but I had been trying for, you know, since I was like a teenager, I was in bands and I felt like I had some good moments, you know, but it just didn't matter. Like just could never poke through. So luck's a big part of it for me that was like me. I followed my girlfriend at the time out to LA. She gave me the ultimatum. She was like, we went to school in Boston. She's like, I'm getting out of here. I know you got some guys, some Boston guys. Are you from Boston? No, I'm from Philadelphia, but I went to you from Philly. Yeah. Went to school up there and then I followed her out here and I met some some people out here and my manager to this day. He was doing like to a point about like in the box up, he was doing like producer. He was managing like EDM and like producer type stuff. And we just lived in the same apartment. So I was like, I'll do anything to break into music at this point. I'm sort of a failed songwriter at that point. And yeah, he kind of like from there, I started just meeting people who were like, hustling in LA. And some of that was like, I had a guy who knew a guy who could like, I don't know, like pitch our music for what we're called playlists at the time. Yeah. And I was like, I got a goofy song about Jesus driving an astro van. Like that I would play like, I remember a time period why it's like, you know, I like like sports and stuff is kind of my escape. So I would like, there was a many Pacquiao fought Floyd Mayweather, which was like the big event. Oh yeah, I remember that. And it took like, you know, we had this party with a bunch of people there. And it took like forever for them to fight and it was super boring. So I was like, I got this song about Jesus. I remember playing it for people there and they were like, song about Jesus makes it sound like a different type of song than it is. But but I have this goofy song that and I played it for people there. And they're like, you know, that's like really good. It started giving me confidence. I was like, all right. So I gave it to this guy who I'd met through people that was out here. And then that was the luck component was just like people at Spotify, I guess, liked it. And then it went whatever. So, you know, just that was the first thing in my life, musically, that had ever broken through at all in any way. And then it was like, all right, let's put a band together. The rest was sort of history. But I think that plus I think you nailed to like what's happening is like, I think about this all the time, like you realize that like part of what was awesome about music was that shared experience. It's probably the best part. So that's where the concert thing comes in. I think that's where the band thing comes in. I think it's like it doesn't just have to be bands. But I think it took us years. Like that's sort of the 10 year story is like a feeling short for me is that like it was chaotic and like we believed in it a ton, but probably realistically wasn't smart until like a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. Like and if you amortize the success of the last few years across 10 years, yeah, you still have that's the thing I always tell people to is I'm like, and a career is is like peaks and valleys, right? So it goes up, it goes down a little, it goes up a little higher. And that's what you hope for. Yeah. The artistic life is playing out in front of everyone. And so the people that are listening to your music, that love your music are also in their own story arcs. Yeah. And there is like a through line to success and building a happy life and like getting the most out of life. Yeah. Like which I think everyone deserves to do. Or is trying to do. And yeah, exactly. Like they all deserve to write their version of a song. Like if it's arts or if it's business or if it's just in their personal life and being happy, like everyone deserves to have their art. Yeah. And I feel like most of us, the art thing gets killed when we're little because it's it doesn't make sense to do art. Not realistic. Right. And everyone has a medium of some kind if they can find it. Yeah. And it might be their company or it might be their fitness or it might be their love life or it might be their kids or it might be whatever they're guarding in the backyard or or there or it might actually be art, painting or drawing or music. But I think everyone deserves to have some artistic expression of themselves. Yeah. And like most of us don't like a lot of people don't. Yeah. Or they don't give it enough credit. Yeah. And so we're talking to music artists. We tend to be the most free because we're not in conflict with that. Sure. We just you want to go write a song. You'll go right now and you'll fucking write a song. You're not conflicted about is it good? Is it bad? Is it this? Is it that you just want to do? You just want to get it out and then you'll decide does this belong on the record? Do should I change it? Yeah. But you're not so conflicted that you couldn't step in the studio and start strumming the guitar or start singing, you know? Oh, a lot of people can't do that. Everyone should create something. Yeah. Like I always sort of preach that. Like I don't know what that looks like for everyone because it's different for everyone, but like, yeah, there's something about making stuff. I mean, some people like to like be handy with a hammer and whatever. Like I'm jealous of that. I'm jealous of that too. Because that's rad. Like I think the feeling of people hiking is like just the feeling of conquering something. That's what creating is. It's like you start with nothing and you end up with something. Yeah. It wasn't there and now it's there. Yeah. And that along with kind of stacking good decisions is the thing that I think no one really teaches you when you're young is like, yeah, discipline, discipline, like having disciplines in different things. Right. What's your discipline in that's another thing no one taught me is that everything actually is you get to choose your process. Yeah. And you should have a process, whatever it is for each person. Yeah. And what are my disciplines in every category of my life? What are my disciplines in my career? I do this every day or I do this every week or I do this every month. That is like the antithesis of like what draws me to music, which is like again, just like whether it's a hammer in your hand or whatever, just make something new. Like make something that and not even make something new because I we we make like music that is such a throwback to other music and constantly. What bands do you love? You know, I really do love like what would you come up on like Neil Young? Like, yeah, of course. I'm grateful, dead. But like Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, like that whole zone of what about the newer the newer stuff? Like I love Fleet Foxes. Fleet Fox is incredible. Vampire Weekend. I was on Band of Horses. And if horses wasn't huge for me, like, yeah, like, but all the weekend amazing. Amazing. Like all of those things, I think what drew to me in some way was like, there wasn't really other stuff that was exactly like it. Like it felt like it was original. But old guys would say that Fleet Foxes, Band of Horses were like Neil Young. Like that's the thing is like you play it for an old guy who loves Neil Young and they're like, it sounds like Neil Young. I love it. Sure. But every different generation and genre when someone's lived there long enough and they've seen it enough times or going to see like new stuff. Yeah, I think it's more like you're totally right. Like in Mount Joy is like super derivative of like a ton of our influences. But what I'm saying more is like it was and I don't think they were trying to be bold, but it was when Fleet Foxes when the year is 2010 or whatever it was, when they popped on, there wasn't other bands like that were like the Rosen Fifty other bands online sounding like Fleet Foxes. Fleet Foxes came in, they had this like four part harmony thing going in the crazy reverb and great songwriting tune. But the way they sounded and the way they felt was fresh. Like it was like, that was their thing. And it was like, whoa. You like my morning jacket? Love my morning jacket. I feel like there's some of the OG. Totally. Like I feel like he is, I don't know why. I felt like my morning jacket was like a trailblazing band for the whole movement. Now, if you think back, if you traced it back, I feel like they'd be somewhere in the early like, yeah, I don't know. But like maybe there'd be a beef on reverb between Fleet Foxes and my morning jacket. But like to me, I love them both. I love them both. But I'm saying like, and I'm saying that's a stretch. Like I think those are two very different bands. But yeah, my point is, is just that they they're both fresh. They had their own thing. And like, I think if I hate anything about music, which I genuinely am not a hater in the sense that everything we've talked about, like show me a song that I don't care for at all. And I'll be like, and what they've accomplished and done to get like, I'll be like, they must be really talented. Like there must be a talent there that like, even if you think this guy sucks, like, trust me, everyone would be doing it. Maybe he's just like the hottest guy ever. And that's a talent unto itself or something. But like also they're like, just, you know what they had to do and how many times they had to show up to get to the position to be seen and heard. Sucks to be that successful in some ways. Like it's like to and how much it sucks to be that guy. Sometimes to wake up at 4 a.m. To be on some like, you know, today's show or whatever, like all that stuff is like it's nice to be rewarded that way. But it's like, it's not easy to to do that stuff and then go show. Anyways, all to say, I think if I hate anything, it's just like, I just want every artist to because I think it's something that I've fallen trapped to. I think every artist falls in this trap because you see someone having success in a certain way and you're like, I'll make a song like that. But it's like, that is a trap. And it's like, just do your thing and do it really, really well. And I feel like other artists are like sort of at least speak for myself. I feel like I can really sniff that out because I can do it. There's also value to let's call it like if there's let's say, right? Like pop folk. Sure. Like suddenly every pop station is playing the next Boke song and those tambourines and clapping in it. And there's like, you know what I mean? Like, that's real. They've just back package it up. Put it out. Yeah. There's some value to it, though. Sure. Because there's this new audience coming in and then what happens? They start to dig. They start to go back to the roots. Oh, it raises all whatever they say, raises all boats kind of thing. And it's natural order. But I think what you're saying is something I've thought about too. We're like, I think the lesson, though, for me anyway, what I've taken from all this is like in your time at EDM in 2011 or something like that. Oh, yeah, it was around the time, right? Yeah. 2000. So I was like making I've been making this kind of music. You said like Fleet Foxes and stuff like that. And that hit me so hard because I was like a contemporary and band of horses. Like these are like contemporary examples of like, man, what would it sound like if I was able to like achieve the influences that I love, like this sort of like throwback timeless, I feel like. Yeah, I think so, too. Like type of music and to hear people contextualize that in like when I was like, you know, I guess like early twenties or teenage or whatever was like, oh, my God, like I could do this. But then it's like it becomes a wave. And that's like right when I'm like first trying to like break through as well. So maybe that's why I hate it in a way is like I was once that guy or still in. And so what I learned from it is like, I think the lesson is, is like, we basically start doing our thing and we start hammering away and have whatever, not as much success. But by the time like everything comes back around. So like rather than trying to force yourself into the next thing, just stay where you are and just get really good at what you do. And it will come back around like there's almost this cycle of like EDM, which is like four on the floor. And then it's like we want to hear the stomp folk thing, because that's also four on the floor. It's like once our ears get tired of that, it's like, wait, we should break this beat up a little bit. Like I just feel like there is this movement like, I don't know if I could actually draw it out like that, like a cycle, but. There's something there is something there. And it's like it does cycle for a sort of natural reason where it's like, if you listen to this a bunch, you're going to tire and want this. If you listen to that a bunch and you kind of move around in a circle eventually. So it's like, there's not really much point in my, and that's part of the don't quit is like, just get so good at what you do that it becomes undeniable. And then you might get lucky because the wave might come and you'll be the best surfer for that wave or a really good one at least. And you can profit off of that as a band, you know. But I also think though that what you guys have done really well is life. I think if you build life and you put that as one of your priorities, yeah, a live experience that people like and that they get something out of, that they feel is worth their time and money. At the end of the day, that's always you want to feel like at the, you know, when you go to a Mount Joy show, you want people to walk away and go, I was glad I went. I that was worth every bit of my time, my money, and I want to go back. And that's a that is a handcrafted thing and timeless. Forever. And it takes a lot of effort and time to build that. You don't you don't start at the top. You start at the very bottom with life. That is the truest form in our business. That is the truest form of building it brick by brick. That is the truest. You start in a bar and you go to a small shitty club, then you go to a little bit bigger of a club by the time you're in a thousand and fifteen fifteen hundred cap rooms, you feel like you're getting somewhere. Like, oh, my God, this is amazing. But it takes real diligence and real cooperation. You have to learn how to behave with other bands. You have to learn how to build positive in relationships with people so that they want to invite you and they want and they want to come to your show. And so that takes that to me as the most physical form, aside from making a record and actually crafting a record, the most physical form of our building of a career is life. And the people that miss that as not a priority. I feel like they also missed the point of why we do all this. It is if the song doesn't sound good in the room when you're actually singing it. Yeah, that proves it. That proves the song out because it also like takes on a life of its own. And live is the thing. Yeah, to me, the record is the commercial and live is the show. That's right. Like so if you get it backwards, then you're in big trouble. And I think they like there's great contemporary examples of that. Like we played Bonnaroo again and, you know, had an amazing set and then walked over, you know, with all these people who had just seen whether it's hip hop or whatever. So there's there's a huge, you know, over to the main stage, bunch of different types of music fans, Billy Strings walks on and you can feel it. Nobody, not nobody, but a vast majority of these fans do not engage with bluegrass whatsoever. Myself sort of like kind of because of the Grateful Dead thing, but I'm not like a huge bluegrass guy and he had people in the palm of his hand for whatever it was an hour, 90 minutes. And it was like in that moment, you didn't have to question what was going to happen to that guy or what was already happening because playing a big Bonnaroo set. But like it was like music genre and everything melts away when you reach a level, which is like a work thing. Like that's like a thing you can become at music. He's obviously like entered a conversation of like, is he the best at that? I don't know. Like like those conversations start to happen when you reach that level. It's been built over a long time and he does over a long time. But I guess that's what my point is, is like you can play whatever kind of music, polka music. But if you're like God tiered it and and it's like in you and that's what comes out of you and that's your expression, people are going to they're not going to look away. Like they might not like go home and bang the record. Like, but they're going to be like the next time that bands through with their buddies like, yeah, I'm going to see whatever they be like, that's on a great show. And I also think that it goes back to your kind of longevity for a live is wrapped up in authenticity. It's unsustainable if you're out there being someone you're not. I believe it wears on people. And so I think that like that goes back to where the the art you create that you're going to go and do every night. It has to be authentic to you. Otherwise you're not going to be able to do it every night. You're going to start feeling that at some point. You hit a wall. Yeah, exactly. So I think that that does what you're saying. People finding finding themselves and making music. That's true to that. To me, that's one ingredient for a big live career. It's got to be something that you truly are. Otherwise you won't be able to do it until like what I what I another thing I love about bands, especially like you guys, you could play this music when you're 45, you could play when you're 55. Yeah, you could play it when you're 65. You'll decide when you don't want to play it. Yeah, it's not a age specific. And by the way, we made it at a very young age. So I wasn't thinking about 45, you know, 30, 30 years ago. Probably good, though. In some ways, very good. And I thought for some reason, I was like, I'm not going to be touring when I'm like I thought for 40s was sounded really old and I was like, I got it. But now when we tour some things, we've left back there. Yeah. And the things that we like that we want to bring here, we've had to reimagine it to like where we are now, because I don't want to walk on stage and be a different age than I am not hiding my age. I'm not hiding like I want to walk on stage as a grown man in my life today and be there and really be there and do my best. And I think that's a better show. Because also, I think we've all seen like when it feels like someone's just phoning it in, it's weird. It's not fun to watch. It's when you see someone that looks like they're tired and they don't want to be up there and it's like that's not a good live experience. So we had to when we came back to touring after like seven years, we were like, I will get back to it when we feel it. And then when that came, we were like, the only way we can do this is if we reimagine the whole show and we go out and we're excited to be there because we want to do this. So I think that's huge. I think this is something I think about with trying to grow Mount Joy. Yeah. How do we what's the next thing? And I think sometimes it's just that it's just like when you're a band coming up, it's like, why do people go to sports games? It's like sports does is genius in the sense that the event itself is about achieving something. It's like, I'm trying to achieve this thing. Will there, won't they? Reality TV, let's find out. Yeah. In music, when you're coming up, you have that. Will they put on an excellent show tonight? Will they make it? Will this show move them to the next level? Like, will this, you know, can I go tell my friends like this band's this? This. So once you make it, you have this problem where it's like, well, now I'm just up here doing it again. Yeah. But what is the achievement? What is happening tonight that is transcending to the crowd that like they're doing it? What is that it? What is the thing you're doing that's raising this the ceiling for Mount Troy or Goodtroll or whatever it is. And that can be as simple as just like, man, it looks like they're like starting to do that song differently or like looks like they're whatever, like, which then feels like you're you're taking a turn and now you're going this way in real time. And I think for, for us at least, and for me, it's like, I just think that, you know, and like the Billy Strings is kind of a good example. There's a few amazing players out there. And now where it's like, well, I can become a way better musician. And then I can put that into the show. That's how we feel. Exactly. We didn't think that was possible for us. And then somewhere in our like thirties, actually. And then to now when we tour now, there's no rules. So we have other musicians. We've we've added like three musicians to the band when we play live and anything's possible. So when we want it, when we have an idea, we all get together and we have, we have firepower. Sure. Because we have all these musicians. So there's no, there's as many vocals as we want, because there's now there's like four guys on stage singing instead of two. Yeah. And if we need something, we just get it. We're like, let's get another musician. And there's no rules that we used to weirdly set rules. Like we don't, we this band, we can't do that. Or we, and now there's no rules. I could confidently say this, we're better live today, like by miles than we ever were in when we thought you were really good. Yeah. Yeah. Always feels that way, looking back, especially, but yeah, I think that's it. Like that makes me want to see a good show. Because it's like, that's the that's the internal challenge. I think is like, it actually is kind of easy in a way to be like, all right, this is the show. This is our first time in this place. Like hands in, like let's go conquer this. And the conquering itself is the achievement. Yeah. But it's like, once you've achieved the thing, it's like, I think there's a freedom to it, like you said, where it's just like, all right, well, now we just have to keep pushing this in a way that feels and try to match that energy. I guess. Yeah. So what are you guys working on now? Yeah, I'm about to go down the street here in Burbank and what studio? Heavy duty. Okay, cool. Yeah. Which actually, I think is where vampire weekend, at least there's vampire weekend Grammys in there. So either someone either someone robbed vampire weekend and your Grammys are at the studio. What'd you say? Do they own it? I think it's the producer's space. Yeah. Ariel. Right. I don't want to say his name wrong, but incredible producer and that some of those records are awesome. And are you working with him? No, we're working with a friend of ours, Joe P, who's incredible and engineer there's Gray's names, Kyle. Yeah. We, everything's been really cool, man. We just like, like I said, I feel like we're in this cool spot where, and you kind of described it all today. It's like we're, we're pretty free. That's cool. Freed up a little bit. And, you know, like there's not really any, in my mind, expectation of like what we need to achieve with a song. So we can just like try to make the best thing we've ever made, you know, like, yeah, exactly. Like it doesn't have to be like a song that, you know, maybe, maybe our management, who some of whom are here won't like this, but like it doesn't have to be a song that like goes on the radio. It could just be a song that like we think it's going to be badass live or something like that. They'll survive if you survive. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, and that's, you know, in some ways, I think that's the best way to make a song for the radio. Absolutely. It's to be like, this song's not for the radio. And then, and then you put your mindset into just making something really great. And, and then it's like people like it because it's like, that's the whole fricking point. So. Yeah. The, the rule I, I got to kind of in a zigzag way, but I was, I think I was doing it all along, but there were moments where I wonder if I was or not was getting back to just like, if you love it and you think it's cool and you like, are excited to listen to it in the car when you get the mix and then that's the feeling. 100% The buzz. And then everyone else will, will be okay. They'll probably like it. Yeah. I heard Kevin Parker say that like for him to put out a song, it has to be his favorite song for like 10 days or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like driving around in your car or like, I'm gonna put that back on. Yeah. You fucking like it. But if you're like, if you're like, which happens too, is like, if you hear it, and you're like, it's kind of dead on arrival at that point. You know. And it's like, if you're excited to play it for someone. Yeah, totally. Which was the whole, people have said that too. Like, I think the whole point of music, if you're like trying to A&R your own music is like the same as it would have been in the beginning, which is like, yeah, do you want to show your friends this music? Or do you think that they would crush you for this song? As the importance of having, we talked about in the band, like, I think bullying is bad, but I think bullying is also good. Yeah. Like, I think like loving bullying from people who care about you and are your friends and like ribbing and stuff like that, like actually kind of builds a sense of like what you value. Yeah. And I think that, yeah, like having people like that in your life that will genuinely be like, nah, this is not it or something like that. It's actually like super helpful. You can disagree, you know, whatever. But I think like having people you trust to like show music to or even the best case scenario is like, but that's the power of a band. I feel bad sometimes for like solo artists because that's a challenge. Who's going to tell you that like this sounds a little Disney, bro? Like, are you sure about this? Like this is going to take you down a certain path or like, you know, like that could be your guitar player who's like, I'm not, we're not doing all that. Like, or whatever. Like that's super important. It is. So are you guys at the beginning of the process, the middle, the end? Where are you at? This is like the beginning. Yeah. We just got here and. And is there any pressure on like any kind of timeline? Is there like a tour coming and that you have like X number of months to get some shit done before you have to go back out? Yes and no. Like I think for us, it's like we feel like we have some really cool songs that just kind of popped up from a break that we have. And we're like, man, it'd be cool. We're going to play them this summer because that's like when we have new songs, we want to play them and we're like, all right. Oh, so you're going to like play them live. I mean, we're going to Australia. My intention is to play one of these songs like in a couple of weeks. So I think like, well, that's cool. I was like, leave here in like four days. Yeah. Oh, well, what's the dates? I think we start like February 4th in New Zealand and then the it's like a festival laneway festival. It goes through Australia for like 10 days or so. That's cool. And then you tour this summer. US. Oh, yep. Yep. Yeah. Like US. We play in London. We have a show and some Canada. Yeah. Yeah. North America, I guess. That's cool. Yeah. We're touring this summer too. Hell yeah. Maybe we'll wind on the old. I actually, you guys played that Alter Ego show at the forum. I saw you walking on as we were walking off. Yeah, I almost came in your dressing room, but you know, that place I saw, I walk by. And there was like a lot of people and I was like, I'm not going to bother them because I knew you were coming on the show. But I was like going to pop in, but I was like, I got a little shot. No, we had just walked off and that show is like they literally spin you around for anyone that wasn't there. It's pretty hilarious. Well, we messed up because we don't really do stuff like that. I think you guys are like, you know what to do. So our dumb ass is stood on the stage like a frigging hot like a frigging hot dog at seven eleven and like it just like turned us around very slowly. And we were just standing there and then like we revealed ourselves to the crowd. But like it's such a slow reveal that you go from like side profile to like slowly like we were out there. And then it's even worse than that. Then like we were like, all right, let's hit. And they like it's an announcer. So like then a dude comes out and he's like, hey, I think it was actually not just a dude. It was like strikers like a legend. Like he comes out and does his whole bit. They're like striker striker. We're just sitting there like striker. It was all time bad. So then we saw we walk off. We see good Charlotte like mobbing the stage like they look super cool. And they just like walk straight on. Crowder rubs were like, damn, we blew that. Now you did it. No, we did. Sadly, we just have done so many of those shows. You guys are just in mid swing. You know, I think this thing becomes if you want it to, I think it becomes this living, breathing thing. So like I think it it's going to continue to take shape if you feed it. Well, I hope so. We intend to feed it. Yeah, if we don't we don't let us know like or bring food, I guess. Yeah. So how many more weeks do you have in the studio? Yeah, just like we're leaving. It was kind of a thing where it was like these two like last two weeks. Yeah, like a few days and then we're off to Australia. So it was like we've been here for like been in the studio for like a week. And you bang out like a song a day. It depends. Like the first like the first couple of days was actually like we hadn't been together in like three months and it was like let's pour a bunch of ideas in and sort of like put together some songs. And then yeah, I think it just totally depends. We do a lot of live tracking so it can go really fast. Right. Or it can be like one thing we talked about this session, actually, it was like because we do it that way. Sometimes I feel like being in the studio is super fun. At least for me. And you can get lost in this thing where you're like, all right, now let's start adding shit, which is the actual fun part when you're like, I've got a good performance down. Like let's like, what if we put a diggery do on this? Like, yeah, like you're on Amazon or like. Do you play guitar? I do. Yeah. What kind of guitars do you play? I play mostly acoustic guitar in this band, but I can play like electric guitar. You mean like what, like actual kind of guitar or? Yeah, what kind? I play like a Gibson Advanced Jumbo, but I love like it's become like an expensive thing, but I love like older acoustic guitars, just sort of like the lib. Even if it's not a nice one, my brother just bought a crazy one. Really? Like what are we talking? 1942 J45. Yeah. See, that's awesome. First off the line. That's incredible. But like to me, what's cool about that is like obviously J45, like a legendary guitar, workhorse guitar for like Gibson forever. Like that's the like Ford F-150 of Gibson, if you will. But yeah, but it's like to me, what's cool is that like I genuinely think you can buy as long as it's like, especially that era, like pick a company and it's the like story of the guitar. Not to be woo-woo. It's like what makes a 1940 something guitars obviously has to be somewhat well taken care of. But even if it's like pretty well taken care of, the wood takes a beating. It sounds different than when you just put a lacquer on a guitar. It's like brand new. That's how he feels. Yeah. He won't buy a guitar unless it like sings to him. It's a thing. And he said right when you pick it up, he's like, you can almost see it though. Like you see a guitar and for some reason it grabs your eye. It speaks to you and it's like four out of five times. He'll pick it up and it'll be like this song. This sounds beautiful. Yeah. And it just sings to you. It's just like speaks to you. Helps you write a song or something. Right. You're like, man, there's like there's stories in this. And I always think about that. Like I think I used to think about it more because now we're all addicted to our phones. But like, you know, you drive by a house or you like wherever you go. I like that place so much. Yeah. Or like, do you think about how everything has a story? Yeah. And like how crazy that is. They're like, everyone, we're having this conversation. But like everyone in this room has like conversations in them and all the things that happen to them. And then like to buy a guitar from that long ago, maybe it's been through multiple owners, maybe like someone lived and died trying to be a songwriter on that guitar. Like and you now get a chance to like take it to Mass and Square Garden or like that you're continuing it, kind of like saving, not saving is for the wrong term, but like that you're continuing this, giving this guitar a great story. Like that's part of it. And I think that from a physics standpoint, there is something there. Like the thing vibrates for so long that it eventually has an impact on the wood that now they actually like relics some of these guitars. Yeah. They make say literally vibrate them. Like they put the brand new guitar in a, I don't know, some machine that vibrates the guitar super fast to try to age it. Right. Before they sell it because people believe that it like myself that like kind of got to put the guitar through the sound waves a bunch before they actually start sounding good. So. And do you ever play any electrics? Play electrics. I've always played this Starcaster. I saw like I was obsessed with Radiohead when we were like when I was like buying this guitar. Yeah. And I just have always had it. And then your fingers like your guitar players know this. Like I don't I think it's a great guitar. It's not like a super special guitar to me. I bought like other expensive electrics and I always come back to that when it just feels like, you know, if I were to like have a guitar solo and a big moment like tons of people watching, that's the only guitar I would play. Ben's just long just started his signature guitar with Sir. Cool. And he's got his first two came out. We were just sitting down. Sweet. To roll them out. And he's been playing Sir since like 2008. Great guitar. And yeah, they're beautiful guitars. They sound really good. I sort of end up in this world probably more where I think you are where like I think people think of me more of like the songwriter like like melody, whatever that is inside. I don't really get the guitar looks. But maybe someday it's got out my guitar game. But it'd be cool to play everything. Not really. Like I think I play guitar pretty well. And I'm like that's that's what I'm talking about. Like getting better at music. Like my goal is to like be a master at guitar. That's great. So I'm not there yet. But like Ben Jamiro just talking about this. He's starting lessons again. Yeah. And he's been playing for so long. He's a great rhythm guitarist, but he wants to be better. I mean, yeah, I like spend tons of time like on YouTube, watching kind of giving myself lessons and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, I would love to like take lessons, especially from. Yeah, like I think there's just to me a lot to lot to learn there. And like that's the cool thing about playing an instrument too. It's like whatever amount of success you have, like I don't think like that. I'm anywhere close to the ceiling. It's a fun thing to be involved with because the ceiling is like infinite. It's infinite. And it's in and in and there's two directions, right? Infinitely, you can be more and more and more expressive. So you can be more creative because you have more ability. And it's really beautiful and fun to listen to when you see someone who can make a guitar sing, which is I think what he wants is to continue to work on that because there's something really nice about when someone starts playing something and it just sounds good. And you're like, you know, even if you just like listen to the masters who play, it's like it's really special when you hear someone that can just make an instrument sing. Yeah, I mean, that's that's like the goal, I think to get. I think that if I have any like identifiable skill, you know, outside of like the luck conversation and stuff like that, it's like, I do think I'm like then better than average, at least at like coming up with melodies and like things just kind of like come to me like, oh, it should be like this. Like and that just sort of happens for me. But then the next step, I think is like now do that with the guitar. Like now, but in real time, because we do have moments where we improvise and it's like just sing in your head and have it come out the guitar is like my goal. And I think like that's a really cool thing to be able to do. It's another language, right? It's like another way to express yourself. It only makes the records better too. And it does the thing we were talking about where it's like, I think if people know or watch this or whatever, it's like that like my journey is like, if you're watching me up there, I get to try and fail in front of lots of people to become like a great guitar player. Yeah. It's not going to happen probably this tour, but like, you know, whatever, like maybe three tours from now or something, I'm doing stuff that I couldn't do. And that's like, that's how you can stack that, I guess. Well, Matt. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show, man. Well, thanks for having me, man. That was awesome, dude. Yeah. Congrats on the band, man. Everything that you guys have done is really cool. But I think, like I said, I think you guys are just getting started. So keep it up. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Thank you for watching Artist Friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.