Dr. Becky: How to Stay Patient When You’re Triggered

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Dr. Becky, thank you so much for coming on. I have actually truly been very much looking forward to that. I know we both are guests often on people's podcasts and it's an easy thing to say, but I feel like obviously we've been friends for a while and I'm so excited to do this. Yeah, me too. It's we, you and I have known each other probably what over a year at least now. Yeah, probably two I'd say. I feel like I'm older, you know, like us. Yeah, like us. Yeah, it's I feel like it's a zoom by. It really has been able to support you through every all the changes that you have. And you've certainly been there for me with all the things that we have going on, be able to talk to you finally face to face, even virtually is a true pleasure. So thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I'm excited for all the things I'm about to ask you have a lot. So one of the things that you have in I think it's in your book because I know I have it underlined is that when you realize that misbehavior in kids is is a skill and not a character issue, things begin to change. I know I'm paraphrasing here. Yeah. And I that to me now, you know, for anybody listening, I have two kids ages seven and five. How old are years? Becky. 13, 10 and seven. Yeah. Okay. You got you're on a different way. Okay. You we each have at least a seven, seven years old and you're you're on a different scale than me. So I when I read that, when I read that immediately was like, man, that was powerful because I know with my daughter that happened this morning, Dr. Becky, this morning, my son having a great just he's got bed head, you know, his hair is everywhere. And he's just eaten his cereal and my daughter is just like a tornado. Just anybody who's in her vicinity, she is going to wreck their morning. That's just kind of how it feels sometimes. It's like if you're just in the vicinity, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna get it. But when you put to have that line that misbehavior is a skill, not a character flaw. Tell me what that means to you because I love it. Yeah. So I think I don't know exactly how I said it in the book, but I think the way I'd say it now is two ways because we all feel like need different language depends on what hits us. So as you know, as soon as you start seeing your kids bad behavior as a sign of what they need and not as a sign of who they are, everything changes. Right. But another thing, which is can you say that again? Can you say that again, please? As soon as you see your kids bad behavior as a sign of what they need, not as a sign of who they are, everything changes. And I think another very practical way of saying that is that kids acting out where it comes from, it's a skill deficit, not a behavior deficit. So the misbehavior itself, like, I don't know if it's so skilled, it's not a skill to hit someone or say, I hate you or, you know, a lot of your parents face. But in all those moments, we tend to very quickly assume my kid's a bad kid. We tend to collapse a bad thing or a bad behavior into a bad person. And we do that so fast without realizing it. And then we all act based on that framework versus wait, and if I have a good kid, they did a, they did, I have a good kid having a hard time. And this is a sign that my kid has some skill deficit. There is not a character deficit. We just tend to walk down a very different path after that. I, I so much relate to that. I, in my communication stuff, and of course anybody who's listening, they listen for the communication tips, and we're going to talk about the practical stuff, is that we do the same thing with our words. You say nice things to someone, instantly you're a nice person. You hear somebody say mean things, instantly that's a mean person, or they say funny things. You're like, ah, it's a funny person. And I hear that in relation to our kids. Our kids misbehave, they're a bad kid. You know, a kid says something, they say, thank you, or yes, or no, ma'am, or whatever. Oh, it's a very polite kid. And so it's so easy how we hear one little snippet, and we apply that whole label to their whole identity. That's exactly it. And like, I mean, we could talk about this in parenting and communication. We could talk about this in like a world global scale, and how quickly we are to judge. It's happening everywhere. But behavior, the thing about it is it's visible. Like, literally, you can see behavior. You see a kid hit, you see your daughter who's a tornado, or your son who's a tornado, and when your kid says, you're the worst parent in the world, I hate you, you never do anything fun for me, right after you took off work and took them to an amusement park, and all you did was ask them to change their pajamas. That's a provoked whole moment. We're just talking about the pajamas I just bought you, right? What happened, our brain just takes what's visible behavior, and it collapses it into identity, which is always inherently invisible, lives inside someone. And then we just start asking the wrong questions, and we start intervening in ways that just deepens the problem, right? Because our initial framework, whether you see behavior as a character deficit or a skill deficit, determines everything you do next. And often people say, well, what do I do? What do I say? And give me a new strategy. Nothing's working. If nothing's working with your kid, what I would say is actually you don't need a new strategy. You don't need a new script. You definitely don't need me to tell you something to parrot. It's not going to feel like you. Anyway, probably the framework with which you see the situation, that's the thing that's not working. And so we have to start with the framework shift, which is kind of like saying the road you're on is just a bad, unproductive road. So like nothing along that road that's an unproductive road is going to help. We need to slow down and switch roads. And once we understand a new road, and there's a part of you that says, oh, that maybe that is what's going on for my kid. Now we can get concrete and think about strategies or different scripts or things to say. But it's actually about switching the road first. When you say road, is that like the mindset? When you say like that, is that is that related? Or is it? I think so. Yeah, I mean to me, mindset road, like I guess, you know, whatever visual makes sense. But yes, your mindset is the thing you tell yourself. It's your interpretation of what's happening. And so again, I know I'm a concrete person too. Because we tend to see what's visible behavior and assume we know everything about the person, what's actually happening interpretation wise is something I call the least generous interpretation. We all tend to default to that LGI. Like you see your kid, I don't know, jump on the couch and you say very kindly, Bobby, Bobby, I'm going to need you to stop jumping on the couch. You're right near that glass table. I don't want you to crack your head open, whatever we say. And it depends on your kid and their temperament. But I have at least one kid like Bobby. Let's just say that. And that kid would look at me, smile, and continue jumping on the couch, but this time harder. And what we do is this LGI, least generous interpretation was my kids' sociopath. My kids' sociopath, that's it. My kids' sociopath, they're going to be in jail. They're disrespectful. And then everything that follows after Jefferson, right, it's nothing to do with my kid jumping on the couch. Everything that happens after is only because that interpretation in my mind, that least generous interpretation, what do you do if you think your kids' sociopath, you punish them, you make a random empty threats, you have no intention of keeping, but just feel good to like yell out in the moment. And we just end up getting more incendiary with our kid versus MGI, most generous interpretation. And this is really powerful with any relationship, just saying like, what is the most generous interpretation of why my kid would continue jumping on the couch or jump doubly as hard after I said to stop? And there's no right answer. But in that example, again, which is a framework, a thought, a road, whatever you want to call it, maybe I'd say, well, I do know this kid, all kids crave autonomy. This kid of mine, that's basically an orienting principle. It's kind of like Bobby thinks, if I'm not in charge, I'm nobody. And this is almost an existential threat to have to listen to my parent. And also, I don't know, he had a bad day. Someone made fun of him at school. And so he is really looking for a moment to feel extra in power. Once I have that interpretation, it doesn't make the jumping okay. That's what I would say. Oh, so it's okay that they jumped after you said, no, no, it's not about okay. It's just about being effective. But now I might say, oh, well, he's clearly not able to make a good decision. I know Bobby, I should just go over there and say, if you're not off the couch, by the time I get there, sweetie, I will take you off the couch because it's just unsafe to jump near the glass table. And now all of a sudden I'm acting in a way where I'm on the same team as my kid. And I'm actually protecting my kid and helping my kid versus seeing him and kind of treating him like he's my mortal enemy. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. My favorite thing that I have probably in my house, without a doubt right now, are my bedsheets. Like after this episode, I'm going to be going to bed. And you know what sheets are on my bed? That's right. Cozy Earth. And I know you might be saying, well, Jefferson, they're sponsored. Let me tell you, I liked them before they were sponsored. That's why they are a sponsor because these things keep me nice and cool. And I did not know at this age of my life that bedsheets were going to mean that much to me. Now Cozy Earth has lots of awesome things. They have lots of pretty much anything you can think of soft. They're bath towels, their sweatshirts, their hoodies, their pants. There's all kinds of stuff that's fantastic. But I right now really am digging the bedsheets. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. You stick with Jefferson and get 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. You stick with Jefferson to get 40% off their trial period, their money back guarantee. Fantastic. You need to go try it. CozyEarth.com. And now let's get going with the episode. In my experience, it's very easy to when I see maybe my son's acting out, my mind out of that fear of every parent wanting their kid to be the best as they can be, a wonderful human, a good citizen. We see that one instance of their character and I can in my mind see them at 30 years old making all the terrible decisions and all of a sudden I'm blaming myself for who I am in my mind. I am, like you said, giving the least generous interpretation of their behavior and now going, okay, well now they're on the path to doing terrible things instead of just seeing that one little instance of, no, he just wanted an extra piece of gum. Of just understanding that they're not getting what they want and I'm, instead of just looking at that one little instance, I am projecting out a fear that is most likely never going to actually evolve. Yeah. And I think that particular thing where we see this moment that's hard with our kid and we fast forward 30 years in our life, the reason that's a big problem is because we respond today with all the feelings we would have for the next 30 years versus just like, oh wait, I have a four year old. Right. And I think it's helpful to give things names. Like I call that and I try to, I catch myself all the time. Just because I can talk about this doesn't mean I can, you know, it doesn't mean I can do it. So I'm like, oh, I'm doing the fast forwarder. That's just what I call it. Fast forwarder. Like I'm fast forwarding the worst, least generous scenario. And then if I use that to respond, I'm going to respond with so much anger and I'm almost responding. I mean, you Jefferson both like, we're almost responding just to prove to ourselves. We're a good parent. Like we're not actually giving our kid again what they need. And so the flip side that I find very helpful is when your kid acts out, the truth is they're always younger today than they will be in the future. I know that sounds like a really silly thing to say, but it's helpful to me. And what that means is the stakes are always lower today. Whether your kid hits at age four, you know, I don't know, says, I hate you at age eight. She's on a test at age 13. All of those are lower stakes than when your kid is 18, 25 and 30. And so the good news, right? I think there's a book called The Good News About Bad Behavior, but really the good news about that is, oh, wait, I can actually help my killed, build a skill. They are clearly missing today before 30 years from now. And then the moment that yes, of course, is a hard parenting moment becomes like this really high impact parenting moment where you can actually help your kid become more resilient today and years from now. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I want to ask you a question on this is a person, this is for me. This is a person. Yeah, let's do it. Forget there's nobody listening. No one's listening. No one's listening, just us. So my wife and I, with our two kids, is we encourage argument at the house. It's not that we go, oh yeah, argue. It's that when they do argue, which is often about anything, you know, he's touching me when he's not, he's near my space when he's not. He has that toy that I haven't, I don't even remember it's existed for six years and all of a sudden, you know, he has it, is we allow the argument to happen. So we say as long as you're not named Colin, as long as you're not hitting, and as long as you're not kind of bragging that liquid, I got kind of behavior, we allow them to talk because it's like, nope, y'all talk it out. That's usually our phrase, y'all work it out, y'all work it out. Because we want to teach them these skills now versus waiting until later. I want to know, since I have you on the clock here with me, what do you think about that? I mean, I love it, right? And I think what you're saying, big picture, and then we'll just come back for the sibling rivalry and sibling conflict stuff is, I'm parenting for the long run. Like that's what I always say, I could inside we're very long-term greedy. Like, okay, when our kids are 30, they're going to be in a relationship with people they love. And in moments they really don't get along with, they want something that a person has, they're jealous, they're angry, they're disappointed. Like those skills managing anger, communicating in a respectful way, even when you're angry as someone that you want to continue being in a relationship with, nobody gives those skills at 30. Like no one's like, you're 30, here's, as you know, here's communication skills. You're 25, here, now you know how to manage jealousy. Like these, when parents say to me, well, what age will my kids stop arguing? At what age will my kids stop freaking out about small things? What I say is, like, again, what would you say if someone said at what age will your kid learn how to swim? Like there's no, I don't know, like what are you doing with the years? Yeah, not until they get in the water, you know. Yeah, like, well, have they learned how to swim? Are they level one or they level two? No one just like gets it at an age. We have age wrong, right? Development, like in skill building, doesn't just unfold. So what you're saying is, how can I set my kids up to know that first of all, there are limits. There are certain things that are never allowed in respectful relationships. And there are other things that are allowed. And honestly, you need time and skills and practice to get better at those things. That doesn't just happen with age. And so what you're saying feels perfectly in line with that overall philosophy, right? It's also why I'm guessing you're not going to tie your kids shoes until they're 18 and then expect them to do it at age 18. Like, so I think the other thing around that that I think about a lot in this kind of age of over functioning for our kids is just what jobs do I want to keep having for my kids over the years and what jobs do I want to work my way out of? And as my behavior is apparent, consistent with that. So like, my kids when they're older, like if they're, I don't know, they get fired from a job or they have a breakup, like I will always be happy if they're like, Hey, can I talk this out with you? Like being there for them in hard moments, always happy to have that job. Like water bottle, remember? Nope. Yeah, where your shoes are. It's just not a job. Yeah. Yeah. Picking up the towel, calling the doctor for your own appointment, checking in, ordering at a restaurant and deciding who's right or how to move forward in an argument. Like, I think what happens is we often in a moment with our kids when they're arguing, the quickest, easiest thing to do is something like, fine, you get the red cup today and you get the red cup tomorrow because in the moment they're like, fine. But then we shouldn't be surprised when our kids are like, you know, instead of four and seven, now all of a sudden they're like 13 and 16 and they're, they're fighting about who gets the car in the car first, something that seems, and we're like, why do you guys keep coming to me? Well, I have locked in this pattern. One kid gets upset at the other. They both come to me. I am the arbiter of who is right, which not only locks yourself into a role you don't want, but also reflects back to your kid, something that we don't realize we're reflecting back, which is I don't think the two of you are capable of solving your own problems, which is why I continue to do it for you. And so not only are we having a job we don't want and depriving our kid of the right to kind of build those skills, which they'll need for the rest of their life. We're also kind of saying to our kid that we don't think they're capable of doing something, which is why we, which again, none of those are things we actually want, but our behavior ends up communicating it. So I love what you're saying. There's rules, there's guidelines, there's limits, and then there's space to figure. Project Hail Mary is the cinematic event of the year. The world is counting on you, Dr. Grace. Starring Ryan Gosling. I'm not an astronaut. Two worlds, one impossible mission. So I met an alien. Project Hail Mary. You are the bravest human I have ever met. It's a joke. I only meet one human and is you. In cinemas everywhere, March 19. Put it out. Yeah. And we'll want to personally, selfishly grateful you approve because if you didn't, we'd be changing some stuff. If I didn't, you just have to lie to my face. For sure. Absolutely. The second of all is I want to one highlight for everybody listening here. All right. Dr. Becky has an online platform called Good Inside. And this is my plug for it because we use it. We love it. All right. We use it all the time. The books, fantastic. Really love the membership and the community because that's where you get to go deeper. So and how many people do you have in it now? We're getting up there, you know, north of 90,000, something like that. And I think that thing I'm proudest of, which really though is, I think we're at, it's like 110 countries. So it's just like, it's really, it's amazing how different we are, but how we all struggle with so many different things. Oh my goodness. Yeah. There's going to be so many Dr. Becky taught kids out there. I'll do the same thing. Let me tell you some things that for the people listening right now, I want to make sure that they walk away with some very practical tools in terms of behavior, in terms of kids retaliating, in terms of defensiveness. There's something that we like to use here that we got from you. And that is I see you need help. So you use that phrase when it's somebody is struggling, we need you to go, hey, I need you to go upstairs and go get your shoes on please. Nothing happens. All right. I've already said it once. I need you to get on, go get on your shoes. And then if it's, we got, I see you need help. Let me go with you to go and like it is, that's when it's, it's kind of like the one, two, three, like my son, I can go one, two. By the time I'm at two, he's gone. He's a trailer dust. All right. My daughter, she will say three for you. You know what I mean? Like she's, she has no problem being in your face. That's right. Yeah. She's what you would call in, in your community knows us a D F K. And so I would love you to talk. Deeply feeling kids. Yeah. I want you to talk about that for a second. I mean, there's so many things in what you just said. So first of all, just I'll start with listening and then I'll go to deeply feeling kids because they're definitely a little bit different. And they're like my, my passion project within the passion project of Good and Side. Listening is probably, I think, one of the most common, it's one of the most common struggles we have, even though we don't tend to nape it in our head because you, but you actually need your kid to listen like a million times a day. Right. If you think about all the moments that are hard with your kid is probably a transition, either transition to the table, transition to putting on your shoes, transition out of the house, transition to ending screen time, transition to bed time, like there's a million transitions and all those moments you need your kid to listen. And we all tend to say the same thing. Me too, when I'm complaining to my friends, my kid doesn't listen, my kid doesn't listen. They don't respect me. I was never like this with my parents. We all say the same thing. But I think the reframe not really matters and inherently then changes our strategy is that when we say my kid doesn't listen, we really mean something very different because you and I, Jefferson, even your daughter, if you're like, come to the table and you can, I don't know, watch an iPad for, you know, three hours and have an ice cream sundae, my guess is she wouldn't even, she would not count. She'd be like right there. And so really we mean what happens when I ask my kid to do something I want them to do and they don't inherently want to do. Which just begs the question, well, what do I do in my life? When someone I love asks me to do something I don't want to do, but they want me to do. And it's nuanced. It has to do a little bit with the moment and how they ask, but probably even more than that, it has to do with stuff outside the moment and how our relationship feels and how listened to and seen I feel in general in that relationship. And then for kids asked to do other stuff too, they, they can't really hold onto multi-step directions. They prioritize the moment more than the future, like stuff with their immature brain. But going to your daughter, there are these kids, yes, I call them deeply feeling kids. And this all happened kind of my approach for these kids because I had my second kid and before I had my second, I really, really thought I knew what I was doing. Like I was giving a lot of advice to people and they say like it doesn't work. And you know, to their face, I was nice. I was like, well, let's try other things. And in my head, I was like, I think you're, I think you're doing it wrong, you know, judging and judging silently. And, and then I had my second kid and I was like, oh my goodness, I know what I'm doing and I'm not doing it. Quote wrong. This is the same thing I did with my son, but how is it that I do the same thing? And yeah, they are not people pleasing. So when you're like, kind of, I'm going to be disappointed or I'm going to take away your dessert, they're like, I don't even like dessert. And you're like, oh shoot, I just lost all my power, right? And they have big expressions. And these kids, I think the key thing to know about them is that they really have a lot of shame next to their vulnerable feelings. So without shame, kids can allow their vulnerability to be seen. You're like, oh, you're having a hard time. You need help. And inside they're kind of like, I do need help. That feels really good to hear. Right. Now some deeply feeling kids, because of that shame, when you try to help in the moment, they need you the most, they can explode. They say things that feel totally out of proportion. I hate you. You're the worst. Get out. You'll never understand me. You don't even want me in this family. And you're like, I literally just am trying to get into gymnastics class. Like, how did this become about wanting you in this family? Like, it gets dark and deep. And I think we then misunderstand those kids further by taking it personally, saying, oh, you're being so dramatic. Why can't you be like your brother? You make everything hard, which almost confirms their worst fear. See, I am too much and too different for this family in the first place. And kind of we're off to the races. And I think for those kids, I just want parents listening, you know, because there's so much more, there's so much more I want to say about that, that I can't get into the podcast is just, you're not making it up. These kids really are more explosive. They are more challenging. Traditional parenting things to help other kids actually don't help these kids. Like, again, you're not like crazy. Like, I hope you're like, oh my goodness, okay, it's not just me. And you are so not alone. You are not the only one with kids like this. Jefferson and I both have kids like this. And honestly, in our, yeah, in our good inside program, it's one of the most popular programs because I think it's, you know, a place where again, not only help, but you can connect with other parents and with our coaches really understand those kids. So you're not crazy and you're not alone. Before we keep going, I'm going to take a second to tell you about masa chips. Y'all, these chips. 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So if you're ready to give masa chips a try, which I highly recommend, go to masachips.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 25% off your first order. That's masachips.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 25% off your first order. And now back to the episode. I told my son, this is what he does now. He loves Legos. I was like, all right, man, come on, we need to stop what we're doing and get the shoes on. We got to go, go pick up a friend. And he just goes, no, thank you. No, thank you, dad. Like that's his big thing. Anytime I ask him to do, hey, I need you to go take a bath. No, thank you. Like that is his and he's, he means it. He really means he's, ah, thanks, damn it. No, thanks. So what do you do? What do you do? I usually laugh. You're more creative. Yeah, I usually laugh. I say, well, that is very polite. We need to go. We do it anyway. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But I do give him a little bit of bonus points, but he's, he, he's very much like me. She's very much like my wife and like they, we just, the way our brains operate. So to hear them argue, we might look at each other and go, that sounds, that's a little too close to home. Like we can hear them the way they operate, but it's, it's fun to see the little, the little personalities. So I'm curious, what have you found to be in all of your research, all the things you do for your good inside communities, well as your book, what are some of the most helpful scripts that you have not only used personally, but you, you find that most people go, hey, this really, some stuff that works. Yeah. I think so I'm going to start with, but I think is the foundation. I think when we're looking for like the most helpful scripts or what to say, honestly, the most important thing is how you talk to yourself. I will definitely give scripts for what to say to your kid, but they won't even come to mind to use any parent who's like, but I memorize them. And in the moment, I just scream at my kid, what that tells me is we're so triggered in the situation or we're looking at the situation again, I threw a set of glasses, that's just such a kind of me against you. My kid is the enemy moment that of course, when we're in that mindset, we literally don't have access to the things that we learned in a different way. So step one for a script to me is actually how we talk to ourselves. So number one, just this idea of most generous interpretation really helps. And another way of saying that is just, I have a good kid who's having a hard time. I promise you in any hard moment with your kid, instead of thinking about what to say to them, if you say to yourself, I have a good kid who's having a hard time. And yes, another version of that is I am a good parent who is having a hard time. That is true. You are doing something very powerful in that you are literally separating identity of a good kid from behavior, which is whatever they're doing that indicates they're having a hard time. Because when a kid is hitting, when a kid says, I hate you, when a kid lies to your face, when a kid has a meltdown, you know, at the exact moment that you're with your extended family and you're trying to kind of show off what an amazing family you have, like all that means is your kid is having a hard time. They're not doing something to you. They are struggling. So that phrase, I have a good kid having a hard time, is a very simple way of holding this duality and kind of separating identity and behavior. So that to me is the number one script. Okay, then what actually else is really, really helpful? To me, three words are probably, I think there are three words that I would wish every single parent to say to their kid, like almost every day. And I'll say them. No one really has to write them down because it's three words. I'm probably gonna write them down as soon as we end this. I believe you. Okay. And in almost every hard moment with our kids, they are really just looking to be believed. I mean, probably in every hard moment between two adults, someone's looking to be believed because our feelings are just so different from other hard moments or hard things that happen. Like, if you run and trip and skin your knee, and you're like, Ouch, right? That like really hurts. Like, someone saw you fall, you see blood, like you see the scrape, it is so obvious externally what happened, right? It's so obvious what's real. Feelings are unlike anything else in that they course through our body in such a visceral, intense way. Like any anyone listening, me and you, Jefferson, like I'm sure we have moments where you can remember like the way your heart felt, what your stomach felt, like the way your whole body felt, what was going on in your mind, like it is more intense than the blood from skinning your knee. But like it's not, it's not observable to you or someone else that it's very confusing. And it's really confusing for a kid, right? And so I often think that validating feelings, which I should say is widely misunderstood as agreeing with feelings or as letting your kid's feelings be in the driver's seat, neither of which good insight stands for. Validating feelings is essentially like saying to a kid, I believe that what you are experiencing is real inside of you. Like when you say to a kid, and I'll go examples, I believe you, this is gonna get real existential, but I feel like what you're saying to them is you are real, which is kind of the thing we're all fighting to feel in our worst moments. And when we don't feel it, we really escalate our behavior just so someone will hopefully believe us. And then they usually invalidate us more. And we're in an awful direction. So a bunch of examples, like even now, like, okay, time to go, you know, do bath, no, I'm playing with my Legos. I believe you. I believe you. You really want to stay with your Legos. Any of it, right? The worst day at school. Oh, why? What happened? I had the worst day at school. The whole day was horrible because I had to go second on the slide. Okay, now you and I are like, like, really? And this is where we do the fast forwarder. Oh my God, am I gonna have that kind of kid who can't even tolerate one moment? Am I gonna have that right? If you actually just say, oh, I believe you. And then you're like, zip it, zip it and count to 692 in your head before you say anything else. I promise you your kid will de-escalate. And you're not setting bad habits because you know what helps the kid when they're an adult take a small moment and stay calm instead of making it into their whole day. It's their ability to believe themself. I believe myself. This thing really is hard. Once you do that and something inside your own body, you generally can move on. Like, it doesn't spiral because it's not looking for the thing it needs, which is just belief and acceptance. So I believe you when your kid is having trouble leaving the house, when they don't want to take a bath, when they tell you had a horrible day, when they tell you you're the only parent who whatever it is that they fill in the blank and you're like, I have four best friends in this town and I know they're stricter than whatever it is. When you say, I believe you, you're not being so literal, that's not even how they take it in. What you're actually saying to them is, I believe that the things you feel are real. And that is the basis of regulation, resilience and confidence. So you get like a lot of bang for your buck every time you use it. That's so good. So good. I love that. The phrase, I want to say that we got it. I feel like everything we've done we got from you with our kids is that's a bummer. Like so we'll have my son or daughter, they'll complain about something and they don't want to go do it. And I go, I know that's a bummer. Like just that right there, it's like, oh, okay. They just, it's like they get it out right then. Now they don't really complain about it anymore. But as long as I'm like, yeah, that's a bummer. I agree. It's, my daughter's really quick to go, this is the worst day ever. I'm like, I know it's a bummer. Bummer. And that's a version. This is what I love when parents tell me. Like to me, I believe you, they're literally words I say, but there's so many extensions that whether you're you're Jefferson or someone else, you're like, this is my version. Like for me, my version of that's a bummer that feels very much like, oh, that stinks. Yeah. That stinks when that happens. All my friends are in the same class next year and I don't, oh, that stinks. Right. And then I think what that speaks to also and why it's so powerful to have it as a period versus like adding a solution after is feelings in general, right? Feelings are looking for support, not solutions. And when they don't get support, they will, if you think about feelings as like a living thing in your body, they will get bigger and bigger and go to more and more dramatic ways to get support. And a lot of us, we approach our kids feelings with solutions, right? Where, oh, I take a bath, I hate baths. It's not that bad. I'll give you a light show. I'll do this. Hey, there are kids without running water. All of that is true. Usually just doesn't help in the moment because they're all solutions. There's solutions to move through the feeling more quickly. Or they're almost solutions. Like we say to our kid, it's like a solution to not feel the feeling. Even though in a weird way, it's like, well, my kid's already feeling the feeling. It's hard to not do something that's already happened. Right. So if you just remind yourself, this is looking for a support, not a solution, you're going to say, that's a bummer. Oh, that stinks. This is your least favorite part of the day. I get that. I believe you. They're actually kind of all quote, script versions of again, the same principle coming to life. Same vibe. Same vibe. Same vibe. Yep. And you're, the feelings want to be supported, not solved kind of thing. It's, it's the reason why I like that's a bummer is because I'm not telling her that she should not feel that way. I'm not trying to argue with her of like, the worst day. What are you talking about? I just bought you this. We just got this. I just had like, all the, I just got you a snow cone that had ice cream in it. Like that we never do that. Like the, so what are you talking about? Instead of that, instead of that, which does nothing, it's just the, I know, it's a bummer. Okay. Well, it's, that's, that's right. Can I give one more script? Please. That's really helpful. That's what we're here for. Yeah. Great. You really wish. And I'll show some examples of how you can fill that in. But that's the starting script. You really wish. And I'll tell you also the long-term impact. So let's say, I don't know, when my kids were younger, this is when my kids, I can't even tell you the number of mornings. He's like, I want an ice cream sundae for breakfast. Just like not one of our breakfast options on the usual, except for birthdays, when my kids can choose anything they want. And meanwhile, just so you know, if only we have some like super healthy house, like my kids have basically sugary waffles that just feel more breakfast to me than ice cream sundaes, but ice cream sundaes feels like a little much. You know, I want an ice cream sundae. I want an ice cream sundae. Oh, all my friends get ice cream sundaes. Obviously, it's not true. Right. And I would say to him, right, in addition to holding the boundary, because that's the other thing about Good Inside that I just want to make sure it gets in here. Like, we are equally about validating feelings, which we're talking about as we are about holding boundaries. This is where we've overcorrected as a world. We've gone from kids' feelings, not mattering to kids' feelings, dictating our decisions. I would say both extremes are equally bad for children, where what's in the middle is I can see my kids' feelings as real, and I can still know I'm the pilot of the plane. Like, you know, just because the passenger is freaking out doesn't mean I need to freak out or I need to change directions. Right? So, okay, so I was not giving ice cream sundaes for breakfast. And one of the lines I'd say here and there is just like, oh, you really wish you could have ice cream. I get it. You really wish. Yeah. I remember the morning that he came out to me. And the first thing he said was I really wish I could have an ice cream sandwich for breakfast. When you use the language of wishing and don't use it like a million times a day, but when you're kid again, you're walking by the toy store and you say no, and then you just pop in this like, oh, you really wish we could go there. When you use it enough, there will be a day for the first time instead of your kid saying, I hate you, we're having a meltdown. They say to you, I really wish blank. And the thing about that language that is so much more powerful than we might know, but now you know it. So it's planted in your head is as soon as you wish something as a human, you know it's not happening. You've accepted reality. Anytime you have a wish, right? Like it's, so when your kid is able to verbalize a wish, they are regulating their disappointment in not being able to have something and it will transfer. So it started showing up more places. We have to leave the park. Oh, mom, really? I wish we could stay longer. And I remember I was like, hold on a second, you used to have a meltdown. And it's interesting. You might have lied now, but you don't go from not melting down to overnight saying, it is true. We have been here for an hour and a half. Thank you for giving me this time. It's time to leave the park. No, that's not like an overnight change. And what's in between melting down and gratitude is actually this idea of wishing. And so when you use the language of wish with your children, you wish you could have a sleep over tonight. You wish you could watch TV. You wish you could have ice cream. You wish you could stay at the park. You will notice a day when they use it for you. And I promise you when that happens, that is just a massive kind of regulation achievement. I want to take a second to tell you about Momentus. Momentus is a sponsor of this podcast that I used long before it was ever a sponsor. They are so much more than a supplement nutrition company. They make the science of better performance simple. And they do things for athletes, but all the more they do stuff for just normal people. I am at an age and maybe you're at an age right now listening, we go, you know what? I don't get enough of the nutrition that I need throughout the day. Yeah, that's why they make vitamins because our day is crazy. It's chaotic, right? You got kids, you got job, you got work. There's all kinds of chaos all the time. So for somebody like me, I need supplements and vitamins to make me healthy and a normal human. And I use all kinds of their products. Their lineup is simple and powerful. I use their magnesium L308 for brain support. I use creatine for recovery. I use their whey protein to keep my nutrition dialed in. I use a lot of their stuff, their sleep stack, omegas, you name it. And here's the thing, every product is their party tested and SF certified and designed for people who actually care about what goes into their body. I don't have to overthink the supplements. I want clean, effective, trustworthy, and that's exactly what I get with Momentus. I want you to go to livemomentus.com, use the code Jefferson and get up to 35% off your first subscription. That's livemomentus.com, use the code Jefferson, momentus. When your moment matters, make a count. And now back to the episode. We had been really big on using our breath and teaching first our son of, you know, when you're getting really worked up, because he's our big feeler. He feels everybody's emotions. So he doesn't want to, he won't do something if sister doesn't get it because he feels like she's going to be disappointed. He feels everybody's emotions. Daughter feels nobody's emotions, cares about nobody's emotions. And so it's such a fun dynamic. But to your point, he was upstairs one time and she's getting really worked up about something. And we just hear, take a breath. Like that, he was from upstairs telling her to take a breath, shouting, shouting down at her. And we're like, okay, well, that's, he's not wrong, but let's, let's talk about it a different way. So hearing, hearing your kids, the point is your kids really do absorb it. They, they really do what, what you pour into them. They might, may not show up right away, but over time it, it really does. And just to double click on that, it does not show up right away. Like I just, when I say to my son, look, by the time I get over the couch, if you're not off the couch, sweetie, I will pick you up and put you on the ground because it's not safe to jump near the glass table. Which by the way, I would say like A plus parenting intervention, if you're doing it, right? A plus. My children have never said to me, like when I get over to the couch, like, you're right, it's time to get off. Or if you know what, you're such a sturdy parent, I appreciate you protecting me when I'm not able, no, they scream, they cry. When I say you really wish, it's not like the next day they say, I do wish. Thank you for explaining to me that way. Like, I think because we don't, and we haven't been educated, that's why we haven't really got in a good education as parents in parenting and child development at all. They just sort of like, hope you have a car seat, which we should have at the hospital. But like, that's it, as if a car seat is going to like teach us all the things about parenting. I think we have a better understanding of how long it takes a kid to learn how to swim than we do how long it takes a kid to learn how to regulate their emotions. And while swimming for sure is like a very important life skill, I would say regulating your emotions is an even more important life skill. And I don't know about you, but people say, how long till my kid doesn't have tantrums? And like, okay, Dr. Becky, whether it's your app or this therapist I'm seeing, whatever it is, it's a lot of money. I actually get to drink, we spent a lot of us, I'm looking like I'm telling the secret, spent a lot of money on our kid's swim lessons. And we tolerate them not swimming for a long time. And the reason we do that is because we understand the arc. We understand a first couple of swim lessons, my kid's not swimming in the deep end, they're not even, maybe they're not even bringing their head in the water. Yeah, that's what we're listening to today actually. Yeah. Right? We have an understanding of how it goes. And so we're like, this is an investment, and it's going to pay off. And I don't expect it to pay off now. And I know it will eventually some kids swim in a short time, some kids take a while, same thing for regulating their emotions. Some kids, even the short time is still years till it shows up deeply feeling kids, they're like the kids who take a long time to swim. It doesn't mean they're going to be worse swimmers, but it does take them correct. Yeah, or even more so, when is my kid going to stop having tantrums? Well, are you, are you keeping them from getting in the pool? You know, like, are you, are you, are you stopping the very kind of behavior that you want to hear and that you want to see and that you want to demonstrate for them? Oh, no, no, no, don't, you can't get in the pool. You can't learn this. No, stay out. Yeah. How, how else are they supposed to learn to regulate and to learn to communicate? And just to go further. And this is why, like when people say to me, but are you about punishments and sending your kids to their room? And when I have been saying, no, not really, it doesn't mean I don't do it here and there. I mean, I'm a human. Everyone wants in a while, he goes like, go to your room, no dessert tonight or whatever we do, because mostly just because we feel desperate, you know, in that moment. But in swimming, let's take a kid who doesn't know how to swim and they're in the pool. And you're like with your kid in the pool and other kids their age are swimming. I don't know one parent, Jefferson, who sees you in the pool and it's like, Jefferson, your, your son still can't swim and you're just going to be with him. Like, I think you're reinforced. You're basically telling him it's okay that he's the only kid who's swim. Oh, you're spending extra time with him in the pool tomorrow? Oh, Mike, oh, Mike, you should send him, you should send him to his room and just tell him to learn how to swim and come out when he can swim like other kids. You'd be like, you are the type of person I shouldn't be friends with. Like that's a weird thing. Like it's crazy making. I, it doesn't make any sense. And so it's not that like, zero part of me is soft. I actually just think again, if bad behavior is a skill deficit, not a character deficit, nobody has ever learned new skills by being sent away to their room. Like you actually need to learn them and you need to practice them, which is yeah, what we're kind of all about. Dr. Wight, this is fantastic. I have been wanting to have this time with you to be able to share it with our community and audience. And it's just been fantastic. It did not disappoint. I know you have the busiest schedule and also your kid's book is awesome. We read it as a family, probably when it not too long after it came out. So it's a book all about hitting and with the fire truck. So I give everybody the title of it again. It's called That's My Truck. So that's my show. And you know, can I say one really, really quick? Because I hate the thing I just want every parent to know. Okay, it is so easy to hear all this stuff and be like, oh, that's it. I just I messed up my kid forever. I never said I believe you. I think I messed them up forever. I've been sent to your room. Truly the thing I believe more than anything else about good inside is that we're experts in imperfect parenting. Like repair, knowing how to go back, knowing how to go back to a moment that felt bad and repair is kind of the ultimate parenting strategy to get good at, which means you can't even get good at the ultimate strategy if you don't mess up in kind of an ongoing way. And so there's no perfection here. I definitely don't do all the stuff I'm talking about with you with my own kids all the time. But what I do try to say in the back of my head is, okay, it's not too late. I can repair and move forward from there. And so I just want to make sure everyone leaves knowing that. Absolutely. I want to make sure before we wrap up, where can they find you? How can they find good inside? Dr. Becky, we make it pretty easy. We call everything basically the same thing. So you can go to goodinside.com. And from there, you can find out about, you know, our children's book and adult book, the email we send out weekly, our free email of my podcast and yes, our app-based membership, everything. It's just all at goodinside.com. And I also just love, you know, on DM, on Instagram, Dr. Becky, at Good Inside. It's all one thing, like sending me a note like, oh, I like this part of the podcast, right? Questions about this. Like, I really still do check that and really do monitor it and love to hear from real people. And so please, please reach out. And I can attest she's just as nice as she sounds. I promise she's fantastic. Dr. Becky, thank you so much for your time. I always wrap up our episode in really three short little snippets, as is kind of my thing. This is what I've learned. I want to make sure that you agree. Number one, when you feel misbehavior, you get misbehavior from your kid. That is a skill deficit. It is not a character deficit. Number two is anytime you need to reshift as a parent, it's that mindset or road, as you talked about, just a decision to take a different road. And that is, I am a good parent having a hard time or I have a good kid having a hard time. And number three, if there are three words that we can instill in every parent right now at the day, it's for them to use the phrase, I believe you. And if they use it, magical things can happen in the relationship between them and their children. That's great, great wrap up. No notes? Okay, awesome. Okay, awesome. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for having me and for coming on. And we'll be in touch. Thanks, Dr. Becky. Thanks, Jefferson.