Has Giannis Played His Last Game for the Bucks?

An engineer around a corner whenever you need British gas have over 6000 on-route at speed fixing lights that won't light or have started to blink a pipe with a leak and that weird smell under the sink. If your boilers could put and your blue fur needs a rinse, we've got your back to stop that cold water rinse. You don't need to be a customer, we can help you too, taking care of things. It's what British gas do. TZC supply 6000 engineers correct us of Jan 2026. Coming up on the Monday edition of the Zack Lo show we got Moe to kill here. The guy that if you want to know what happened in the game and what your team's up to, you got to follow him and we got a lot to talk about. Starting, unfortunately, with injuries. Has Yannis attempted Cumpo played his last game? Is it Milwaukee Buck weather? That means this season, off season, whatever it is. What's the trade landscape for him now as we are 10 days away from the trade deadline? What should they do? What will they do? It's rock bottom for the Bucks that lost against Denver on Friday when Yannis got hurt. Was rock bottom? Is rock bottom? Still is rock bottom? I don't know. John Marant, he's injured. What does that mean? Aaron Gordon. Aaron Gordon's legs. Aaron Gordon's hamstrings. Most important variable in the championship race. We're going to talk about how the nuggets are 9 and 5 without Yoke. It's a whole pile of other players. Kudos to the nuggets that juggernaut hiding in plain sight. Then we're going to talk about two teams that are up. The Clippers, are they doing it again? Are you buying it, people? The Hornets Bill was right. And then two teams that are on the way down. Isht the Orlando Magic, funky. And the Minnesota Temporals who have lost five straight. We're going to talk about all that stuff. We're going to talk trades. We got a lot to do with Moat DeKiel coming up now on the Zach Locio. Welcome to the Zach Locio. It's Monday. There's a footest snow at my house. And Moat DeKiel is here from Mondays with Moe from Seattle, where his beloved LA Rams lost the NFC championship game. Too bad, Moe. You'll just have to live with the Dodgers stealing every great player in baseball. I hope you're okay and can recover from this devastating setback. I think I will be able to survive this one, especially because we want a Super Bowl a few years ago. In LA, so this would have just been gravy for me. I'm pretty happy. But yeah, I heard your Dodgers hate on your last Metz corner. You and Sean Fantasy. I heard both of you. I'm just saying I noted it. I wrote your guy's name down on the list. Is that right? No, just noted it. Just noted it. Just just, hey, I understand. Okay, Dodger, hatred coming from them. I didn't expect it from you, Zach, personally. But, hey, it's okay. Like, I get it. Are you just, are you saying you're disappointed in me? Moe? A little bit, a little bit. You know, you have a rich owner in Steve Cohen. He splashed a ton of money around and it went nowhere. Don't be mad at us because we've splashed money around. And it's gone somewhere. Well, this isn't going well today, Moe. But you know who it's going, it's going better for us than it's going for the Milwaukee Bucks. And the story of the weekend in the NBA was, unfortunately, injuries and in particular, injuries to players who were potentially on the move, wanted other teams wish they would be on the move at the trade deadline, which is now like 10 days away. If I be worried fifth, whatever the math is, it's next Thursday. And that's John Marant, elbow issue. He's out for a few weeks. That's Jonathan Kaminga. The brief Kaminga resurgence was brief again. Another injury. He's going to be out a little bit for the Warriors. Aaron Gordon, which you will get to, not trade related, just Aaron Gordon related. And of course, Yannis, who suffered another calf injury, diagnosed himself after the game as out four to six weeks. We will see the Bucks as of it's 10, 45 in the morning on Monday. No timetable yet on Yannis's injury. And that game against Denver on Friday night was as close to rock bottom as I've ever seen. Any would be good team, good franchise get in the NBA. Bucks lose at home to a nuggets team missing almost everybody. I mean, literally almost everybody who's going to play any meaningful minutes for them. I mean, in fact, I don't know, no, no, it's not true, because I think like Jalen Pickett, Spencer Jones, those guys have earned meaningful minutes. But like everybody was out home game. It's the second time you've drawn the nuggets in this, like Yoke Hitch little interregnum that they're in. And Yannis was not right from the beginning. That was obvious. He wasn't aggressive. He couldn't just burst through the walls like he normally does. And the rest of the team did zip to pick him up, which has been the theme of the whole season. The Bucks are great. When Yannis is on the floor, horrible when Yannis is off the floor. And now he's presumably going to be off the floor for a while. And if that's the case, and again, this is Yannis. He said superhuman return timetables before. I'm not sure that his self-diagnosis should be taken as injury scripture. But this is several calf injuries now. And a reality that even before this, teams that might want to go super aggressively for him now at this middle stage of the season, would have had to grapple with, like, this guy's missed significant periods of time with the same recurring leg injuries, including a whole bunch of playoff games in the last four years since the Bucks won the title. And so here's where we are, Mo. It's done. Like, this is over. The Bucks are 18 and 26. They are 11th. It's over if he misses a considerable amount of time. They're 11th in the East. Charlotte, who we're going to talk about, is poised to pass them and shove them down to 12th. They're only hope if Yannis is out for a significant period of time. The only team they can look up at in the standings and say, maybe we can pass them and sneak into the play in are the Hawks, who are 22 and 25. And by the way, control the rights to the Bucks draft pick potentially in the coming draft. And are watching this like, oh, we've been rumored as a trade destination for Yannis. And what we can revisit that, Mo. But also, if they just, if they just sucked to rest of the season, we have the best of the New Orleans pick and the Milwaukee pick. New Orleans has the worst record in the, in the Western Conference, third worst in the NBA. We'll have two bites at the lottery apple. We get the best of those. And so the Bucks being bad is good for us across the board. The Bulls are now over 500. They've won four games in a row. Like the Bucks are four games behind them in the lost column. They're 3 and 11 without Yannis. They've looked positively helpless without him. Kevin Porter Jr. has also heard. And I mean, this is it for the season. Like this season is toast for the Bucks if he's out for a long time. The interesting thing is obviously what it means short term and long term for the Yannis. Whatever time table departure extension, whatever, whatever. I mean, as we've talked about, Mo, the whole league is assuming that at one point or another, the Bucks are just out of bullets. They're out of Hail Mary's. They're out of, not quite out of assets, but should they even dig the whole deeper or should they just rip the band-aid off and start over? I would say, and I'm interested to start here. As soon as this injury happened, everyone around the league started wondering, wait a second, does that make it more likely they trade them before this deadline? Less likely they trade them, as likely they trade them? And I would, after a weekend to digest it and talk to people, I would lean towards less likely to trade them. For a couple of reasons, any team going all in for Yannis right now, we as one guaranteed year left after this one on his contract, is doing so at least in part to try to win the championship this season. You're right. His injury complicates that if he's out for a long time and what is his recovery going to be like. And I just think we're kind of running out of teams that fit that profile. So as we've talked about, the really good teams in the West that have the assets, we're 50 games into this man and he's hurt. Like, I just don't, I didn't see any of those teams upending their teams in the middle of this season to do this now. Anyway, and now I definitely don't. The teams in the East that have been mentioned, Miami, I just don't think they're good enough either way to try to like win the title this year. And you could say what this is for next year too, fine. I mean, like we can revisit that in the summer then when we have more stuff to trade, the landscape's clear. Atlanta, same thing. Like we already traded trade young. That was a $40 something million salary we could have used to grease the wheels in this trade. In the West, golden state, like, like, I mean, okay, I mean, that means Jimmy or Dremond is going out. All our picks, all our young players, are we good enough? Should we wait until the summer? I guess that's interesting. The exceptions, I think, would be the Nix who have rebounded from their own rock bottom with two straight wins, including a great win in Philly over the weekend. And like maybe that's almost it. Nix, I guess Warriors would fit. And the Raptors have to be mentioned as a wild card just because they have all their picks. They have a bunch of contracts that they could send out. But, you know, those contracts, I'm not sure that if I'm the bucks, I want any of them. So to me, this would mitigate towards Milwaukee keeping you honest for now, potentially just tanking to increase the value of whatever pick they get and revisiting this in the summer when he can, if he wants to climb his contract extension, and that effectively blows everything up. What is your opinion? Yeah, I think, you know, you kind of laid it out perfectly in the way it sort of set up. It's just hard to trade for you honest in season. When you just think about the fact of like that totally changes your offense, that you have to revamp your offense. It doesn't matter what team you are like to maximize the honest's skills, you have to change in one way, shape, or form. And I think that's something that's very difficult to do. Then on top of the fact, you add in the whole injury riddled season. This has been for him. And even last year in the playoffs, like you said, like it's tough to kind of bank on that. With 30 games left to go, we saw Phoenix made that KD trade and then he's framed his ankle and then never got right. You know, and that was a team that they were like, okay, we're making this trade to try to win the championship right now when they first made it. And it didn't pan out that way. It's very likely that this is just going to be that type of year for you on his words. Come back, you know, might might be right, might not be who knows. Knock on wood, hopefully nothing else happens. You got to keep an eye on that stuff. And if you're a team that's trying to contend, going to send out a bunch of assets because it's going to take a lot for some of these teams to really gut their roster, you might not even be at that level. Like when you talk about the warriors and they got to send out Jimmy and I know Jimmy, it's most likely Jimmy not Dremon. Jimmy's hurt a whole deal, understand that. But there's still other guys that have to go out. You have to basically give up on your future. And I could see the warriors trying that as a last gas. I mean, you've talked about it a bunch on your podcast how it's that finals run against Boston was kind of it and sort of the the the bow on the that was the feel good ending. We just didn't realize it at the time. Everyone wants to feel good ending for Stefan the words. It already happened. That was it. Yeah. And so like this might be the last sort of like grasping as straws to try to try to get that one more time and get a magical run. But I don't even know if that team would be good enough with how good the West is and how dominant these other teams in the West are. I don't know if that would work. So I don't know if it would make sense for the warriors to go for that type of run in all that. Even for the Knicks for me, Zach, like I wouldn't make this move in season. Like fix the problems you have now. And then worry about the offseason in the offseason and then maybe make that move. Because that's a big change for Jalen Brunson. You know, you make this trade and now Brunson has to re kind of revamp his offense and figure out Mike Brown, who brought in a new system has to revamp his offense and figure this stuff out and all on the fly in a wide open east. We're even though they hit rock bottom a few weeks ago or just a week ago. They can rebound just as quickly and be right back in the mix. And we'll be talking about them in April. It's like, oh, then this might be the year for the Knicks. So you kind of have to leave it at at I think this is just those the teams looking at it going like maybe this isn't smart for us to make this move right now. Maybe it's something we have to revisit in the offseason. Seeing how it plays out. And for Milwaukee, I just think you get more if you wait till the offseason. I just think you can get more for Yannis in the offseason. Because in the offseason, everybody's happy. Everybody's trying to figure out, you know, everybody has high hopes for next season. Going into the year and the offseason and stuff. So when you trade for Yannis, you're like, it's going to be great. And all that like you have more opportunities and you're willing to give up more stuff. I think that's the right play. I think that's the most likely scenario. Well, here's the offseason. Number one, Yannis gets to decline the extension if he wants to, which is effectively the same as a trade demand, except he can say, I never demanded a trade. I just don't want to sign this contract that you're offering me, which is my right to do. And then it's over. We all know it's over. Even if we know it's over now. Offseason for Atlanta, we get to watch the lottery and know exactly what pick we're getting from either Milwaukee or New Orleans. And if it's number one, I think we probably just roll with that. If it's number two, I think we probably just roll with that. If it's something's three, four, five, depending on your draft analysis, maybe something opens the door. Offseason, you mentioned everyone's happy. More or less, everyone's optimistic, but not everyone's happy. Some people are going to be disappointed with the way they performed in the playoffs. Somebody really good with lots of draft assets is going to lose in the first round or earlier than they think they should lose. And all of a sudden, be like, okay, you know, we have three first round picks to trade. We're the Lakers. Maybe we'll try the rockets, the spurs, the thunder, whatever. I mean, I don't see the thunder ever getting into this. They've already won the title, but who the hell knows? And to it on the nicks, just to give you an idea of how hard this is, they're like a quarter under the second apron. Okay, they're looking at smaller stuff. How do we turn Yabwe Sully plus something into something that can help our team and stand on the second apron? Well, that's been their first priority. I'm sure that would love to entertain some sort of Yana's transaction. But to put it in perspective, there was like a wild rumour going around for the last 72 hours or so about a three team trade. And I say wild rumour, because I have not gotten anyone who would be tangentially involved to say that it's real, or any of it is real. A three team trade between New York, Milwaukee, and Portland. Because Portland owns pieces of three consecutive bucks picks from the trades that they made together, including the Dametrade, 28, 29, and 30 swaps and pieces of picks, etc. I'm like, okay, so how does that work? Like, what's the rumour? And I heard a couple different versions of it. One of them had the nicks getting both Yana's and Drew holiday, which would make sense because if the nicks are trading multiple for one, they're hurting their depth, right? So I've played with concepts where they get Yana's and Kuzba in a two team trade with the bucks. This has even been better. Drew holiday is playing outstanding when healthy for Portland. The bucks get some money, let's just say Jeremy Gran, I can't remember what it was. And the rights to some or all of their picks back from the blazers, which is the golden chip for the bucks in any honest trade is can we regain control of our draft assets? I was like, what's Portland getting? And in one version, they're getting cat. And in another version, they're getting cat and bridges. And I'm like, what, why? Like, why are they surrendering these super valuable trade assets to add cats, $60 million, whatever contract to a 500 team? They like, didn't pass the smell test for me. And that's how hard it is. And I mentioned Toronto and I just want to clarify this. I have no indications that Toronto is like actively trying to get Yana's now or later. They have been linked to him in the past. But say, Jerry had a good relationship, has a good relationship with the honestist agent. He obviously isn't there anymore, but his whole front offices. They're interesting to me hypothetically, only because they own all their picks. And they have big medium-sized whatever contracts they can bundle and send out. Not only the bucks would be super interested in a lot of those contracts. And the fertile contract with his unending back injury, which was crazy to begin with, is looking like really bad money. But they have all their picks and a couple of young players, whatever. They're interesting to me, only because of all these teams we're talking about. They're the most why not team. Like, I don't think they think this current iteration of the team can actually, like, win the East even though they're flirting with third or whatever in the East right now. I'm not sure how optimistic they really are about this particular nucleus developing into a 55-win team down the line. And so even if Yanis, like, if we do, and Scotty Barnes to be clear would be off the table. They're not trading Scotty Barnes for Yanis. Hypothetically reality, whatever. But if they could turn all this other stuff into Yanis, like, even if it doesn't really help us that much, this year comes, he's hurt and whatever. It's still exciting. And now we really get to build something going forward. So I'm not ever ruling them out, but this looks like a summer thing to me. And a totally lost season for the bucks who have been straight up pathetic without Yanis. Yeah, it's brutal. I mean, I think we kind of thought going into the season, this was the, this was the analysis of the bucks. If Yanis misses any time, this team's going to be really bad. And that has turned out to be true. You know, when we had the Ryan Rollins Renaissance in the beginning of the year, and he's still solid and he's a good player. Right. And it's all that. But at the end of the day, if Yanis isn't on the floor for this team, they're in trouble. And it's just they don't have enough. And it's them. They're essentially a bad team, which is also why, you know, when they made the move to get Miles Turner and dig the whole deeper with the whole Dame stretching his contract. And to me, that was kind of their last sort of shot. I was like, really, and Miles Turner's who you're getting. It was over for me then in that moment. And I don't know if they really can do anything beyond that. But again, like, are you going to get excited about a manual quickly? Yacke, fertile, like these, you know, these are the RJ. Even those guys are like fine. Like Ingram's had a nice season. Barrett has been helpful and healthy, but like the money is the money. Yeah. And you're just not moved by that in any way. And then you're sort of kind of locking yourself a little bit into this team when you trade for those guys. I feel like that's that's a difficult position to be in. If you're the bucks looking at just what the Raptors may offer. Right. And this is us speculating. But like these are the names that have all been mentioned in all the trade rumors that have been associated with the Raptors. So these are guys are clearly looking at like, hey, we, they're available. If you want them, we can for the right deal, we'll give them up. And it's not just Yana's right. Like for the Raptors, Jaws name was mentioned, you know, trade young. No. Yeah, you know, AD at one point, like there's like all this stuff. Where it's like AD, I think the Raptors actually had some meetings about before his it before his latest injury. Yeah. Right. And now you're so like this. But even that move, if you're, I mean, I've drifted to the Raptors. But like even that move's not something that moves you. But again, back to the bucks. It doesn't make sense to move them right now. The offers aren't going to be in a way where you feel like, yes, it's great. If you're able to find a way where Portland's going to give you all your draft assets back, do it. That's that's the the best move they can possibly make. I just don't see that happening. Well, and then you get to the summer and you can even brainwash yourself into thinking, okay, so the hawks get the best of our pick in New Orleans pick. Let's say we, that means we end up like both, we hit the lottery pretty well with both those picks. Let's say we end up with the fifth pick. Can we go to Yana's and be like, hey, we have either either this young player that you might want to grow with whoever it is at five or we can now, because the calendar slipped over, trade the guy we took at five plus two other first drum picks that are now freed up, plus whatever Kyle Kuzma is expiring or this and that. For, hey, this guy might be available that's better than Zach Levine. This guy might be available that's better than John Morant. We can really try it again. And I'm just like, when do we flip the discussion into what's best for the bucks? I mean, the bucks don't appear to want to have that discussion. I just don't see any roadmap where that's better, digging the whole deeper, digging the grave deeper is better than like rebooting the franchise. It's better for Yana's, it's better for the team. And by the way, that's it from the bucks. John Morant injured elbow injury out through the trade deadline. I said last week, I hadn't found a team that I could say was like realistically really chasing John Morant with offers that the Grizzlies would take. The bucks ironically sort of loomed as the wild card of just like how desperate do you actually get to try to try to fulfill Yana's desire to win now? Is that helpful? I don't love the fit there, but he's the talent is the talent, but like you've got some guards who dribble now already, but maybe that's over. And Aaron Gordon, songs were talking rock bottom with the bucks. It was the exact opposite for the nuggets to win that game in Milwaukee with so many guys out. They are now nine and five since Yokech got hurt. And it's not just Yokech. Valentgenus is missed almost all those games. Christian Brown is missed almost all those games. Almost all of them. Jamal Murray's missed a few of those games. Aaron Gordon has missed a few of those games. Peyton Watson was out in Milwaukee. Cam Johnson has missed all those games. It's it's everybody. Nine and five without Yokech. How are they doing this Mo? What is the secret? So I mean, I have some stats, but like it's their effort level, their toughness, they're just valuing up every possession. It's been really one of the great stories of the season. This is 14 games now. This is not like three games or four games. And it boasts so well for them when Yokech comes back when Cam Johnson goes back, assuming Christian Brown comes back to the point that I will say it again. Aaron Gordon's hamstring is the single most important variable potentially in the championship race. Because if he's healthy and they're all healthy, this team is as good as anyone in the NBA, including Oklahoma City, and they have the best player. Yeah, I don't think that's really a question. I think one to your to answer your question about how are they doing this and nine and five is absolutely impressive mark with with Yokech out. Because I remember hearing you with Adam, you know, a few weeks ago, when the Yokech injury kind of came out, you were like, if they can stay 500, that's great. Oh, right. Look, yeah, that was now this is a grand slam at this point. And I think, you know, one thing that happens that I don't think people fully understand and I've seen it being in the NBA and working with teams and things like that. There's a level of like let down from the opponents when it's like we look at the roster. We see who's playing and it's like they don't have this guy's that will be fine. And that's an arrogance in a way that you shouldn't have because these guys have come out and played their asses off. And even with, hey, the coach is saying they're playing great basketball right now. They're they're nine and five without Yokech. There's all these injuries. Everybody lined up, you cannot take this team lightly. I think just naturally, you don't see Yokech out there. Some games you don't see Murray out there. You don't see Gordon out. You the the players kind of let down and play to that level. And on top of that, the way Denver is playing incredibly hard all out in the way that they're going and doing things. And these are guys that are earning minutes in the rotation down the road or at the very least if you're Adelman, you know what you have in these guys. I can trust this guy. I can trust Jalen picket. You may not be in our top Able more healthy. But I know I can someone gets in foul trouble. Whatever like the matchups, right? I can roll you out for 14 minutes in a playoff game. It's not even that. We need some juice. And we need to throw something out there a little bit unexpected. Come out there and and and and help us out. It's that is the most valuable data point a coach can have on his roster through across the point. Like I don't think people understand that like when we were talking about the spurs resting guys. Like yeah, it was all about resting Timmy, Monu and Tony. But it also allowed pops to understand who he could trust. You know, when it comes to playoff times and in a pinch, what do I do? And now this is something that Adelman has with these guys. I think it's a valuable data point for them. And I think it's extremely important for them. I love it. I'm so excited for them. And I hope this team gets fully healthy. I hope we get Aaron Gordon's hamstring, you know, taking care of and and and worked over and whatever needs to be done. Cause I think it just leads to an unbelievable playoff matchups that we can possibly have in the West and seeing how this place. Because we forget they were an Aaron Gordon hamstring away from upsetting the thunder last year in game seven. You know, he gave it a go, but could barely move. Like I think that's that's how close they were and now to me, they're even better. And I just I'm excited to kind of watch this whole thing playoff. And MPJ was playing that series with on one arm. Yeah. And the guy that they got for MPJ, his played like eight good games this season, but all eight of them came right before his injury flared up. And that's Cam Johnson. And he was trending the right way. Look, as much as we want to say, like the playoffs are about your top seven or eight guys and they and they generally are every team that wins four playoff series has like a jail and picket game somewhere along the way. Has a page of Stoyakabitch and Dallas game has a whatever game where that guy saved us for a quarter and swung a game that swung a series. You just need more guys. And just on Denver, you know, I always at their first game without Yokech in Toronto on New Year's Eve. And David Atelman after the game was so proud of that win. And one of the things he said in his press conference was I don't have the box going front of me, but they're turned. They only had like 11 turnovers in the game. And he said something that turned out to be so prescient, prescient. Um, I look in this stretch, like we're down a lot of guys. Just getting the ball to the rim is a big win for us. Like, we just have to get shots up on every possession and not get empty dead zero shot attempt possessions where we turn the ball over because we'll get free throws. We'll get offensive rebounds and low and behold, in these 14 games, they are second and turn over rate. They have the second lowest turn over rate and the third highest free free free throw rate. Their offensive rating is not particularly good. Their defensive rating is not particularly good. They actually have a negative scoring margin in this stretch where they're nine and five, but they're just grinding out possessions and winning close games and just doing it like picket. I think picket is super fun to watch. He's a really creative physical little score down low. He'd be at like this. He had to play against Milwaukee where it was a Tim Hardaway junior jail and picket screen and roll. Like, imagine that. Right. Jalen picket slipped the screen rolled into traffic. Timmy hit him with the pass. Miles Turner came under the rim to block picket arms up picket like just shoulder shoulder into his stomach moved Miles Turner and just laid the ball up and I love this guy's got little staccato rhythm to his game and boy, one of the wildest nights we've had in the Strother Straits where I still hold some real estate was that game in Milwaukee. The Strother Straits, we were up till four or five in the morning. We all noise ordinances were canceled for the night. We had a great time. Just a fantastic run for the nuggets and it should be said, although no one is blameless for the toxicity that enveloped the nuggets last year between Michael Malone and Calvin Booth and all the tentacles that had you got to go back on Calvin Booth's track record and be like these guys he took at the end of the first round they look like they can all play like a little bit of a redemption factor for him too. Yeah, I think that's an important aspect in that in that conversation. And I think the most important thing for those types of guys is getting minutes and being able to play and get minutes without having to look over your shoulder constantly when you make a mistake. Right. And I think not faulting Michael Malone like if he wants to trust his vets and this is a veteran heavy team all that understand that. But I think developing your end of your bench is so important. And like you said in the playoffs, that can win you a playoffs game. That guy can go nuts in a game and you'll feel like you're walking on clouds at that point in that way. And I think those guys are really important. And again, this is such valuable experience for them. And this will pay off big time for them when they get to the playoffs. Hey, Mo, let's take a quick break. And we're going to talk about another Western conference team. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. It's cold out. Yes, it's very cold. But basketball season is heating up. It's no secret that grade teams need grade teammates. And when it comes to insurance, State Farm is there to help you select the right coverage for your home, your car, and more. Whether you need an in person or digital assist, they're ready when life hits you with a full court press. Get a game plan that fits your life and talk to State Farm today. State Farm with the assist coverage options are selected by the customer availability and eligibility vary by state. Hey, Mo, do you remember who the nuggets beat in the first round of the playoffs last year? You know what? I'm actually drawing a clippers, the LA clippers, the LA clippers. I'm not falling for it again. I'm not doing it. But it must be said, they are in the process of what could be the single most dramatic in season turnaround in modern NBA history. This team was six and 21 and they looked every bit of six and 21. Yeah, sure. They had to get through the Bradley Beale disaster where it was very clear that Beale and Hardin could not share the floor defensive. The Chris Paul thing had to had to excise him, I guess. Brook Lopez off to a very slow start. You got off to a semi slow start. Kauai was out for a while. But from game one in Utah, when it looked like they didn't even realize the NBA season had started and they lost by a thousand points. Boy, did they look every bit of six and 21? Mo, they are 15 and three in their last 18 games. They are up to 21 and 24. They have now a pot. They are their scoring margin for the season is almost a flat zero minus 16. And we've seen this movie with them before. It's a more extreme version of their season last year when they were 32 and 29 hovering around 500 dead in the water, what were the clippers? And they roar to the finish, 150 games had people like Bill Simmons saying, this is the second best team of the Western conference and took the nuggets to a limit in the first round. Remember, they air in Gordon Alliou, but the buzzer that saved that series really for Denver in game four. Here they are again, 15 and three. That's a quarter of the season, man. That's like a significant period. They have in that span, the number two offense in the NBA, the number five defense in the NBA and the second best net rating in the NBA tied with the Celtics. They are now 10th. They are potentially going to pass Portland, who's won game up in the lost column. It's not that far fetched to start asking, can they actually get up to sixth? Because if they keep winning at anything like this rate, the lakers look bad. The sons have Booker out for a week. Thankfully, it's only a week. It looks like according to the reports I saw. You know, there are five games up on the clippers. Like at minimum, the discussion is, can they get into the seven eight bracket of the play internament and catch Golden State, whose three games ahead of them in the lost column and his out Jimmy Butler for the rest of the season. And if they get their mo and they're playing like this and Kauai who looks like the freaking Terminator again, like this is MVP level Kauai. Kauai in these last 15 games, 18 games either. 32 points, seven rebounds, four assists, two and a half steals, 51% shooting, 43% on threes. And he's getting threes up. He's shooting threes at a career high rate by far. If they're playing like this with that dude and I'm not like, look, we all know the caveats. Imagine if after all this, just imagine they get into the seven eight bracket and they end up facing they lose the seven eight game when the eight nine game. They face Oklahoma City in the first round of the playoffs with all the trade history between them. But look, we all like this is the team that we all expected to see more or less. This is the team that had it over under at 49 and a half going into the season. The talent is the talent when harden, Kauai and Zubat's are healthy. This team is really, really good. Yeah, the norm powell trade looked like a disaster. Two months ago, it's still not great. John Collins quietly has settled into his role as the starting four on the team shooting 46% on quarter threes taking the more more of them in his ever-addeness career and just starting to assert himself in the paint a little bit more on both ends of the floor. Chris Dunn's been fine as a fifth starter. The bench, but tomb is betoom, but Brooke Lopez has kind of got back to form defensively and these two way kiddos, man, Jordan Miller and Kobe Sanders are coming in and keeping the offensive float, manufacturing buckets, defending hard at the point of attack. There's something here and there's always going to be something here as long as Kauai is playing like this, but I mean, look, I don't know. They're not as bad as they were at 621. They're not as killer as they are right now, but you net it out. This should have been a high 40 win team. They're trending toward 500. They could get into the mid 40s and be a pain in the ass. Like this is pretty freaking real to me as long as Kauai is healthy. Yeah, and that's the biggest caveat right? Along is Kauai is healthy because like even during that run, they sent them home. We missed a couple of games with a sore knee and they were a little bit worried in that regard. He's come back and he's actually been Kauai again and sort of that terminator mentality that he has in the way he goes. I want to go back to John Collins real quick because it's not just, you know, the it was an incredibly slow start. I loved the trade when it happened. I thought it was a great trade. Well, he was kind of like a part of it, right? That's one of the reasons we, we, I don't, we people thought it was an acceptable transaction as you are effectively swapping shooting guards and adding a kind of athletic big man who could play the four and the five. He doesn't ever play the five really anymore. That the team has never had before. Right. And, you know, in this stretch, he shoot in 60% from the field and 60% from three. You hit up with the corner three numbers. And it's, you know, 3.6 attempts to game. It's not massive number of three. But that's a big number for them in the way from that position that they didn't really get a lot. And there are times where they don't have shooting on the floor with the guys that they have because they want to have more defense than that situation. I think that's an important number right there. And that's an important aspect of this rise at least is he's playing as to what they expected him to be at. And at what level they kind of were hoping to get out of this is probably again the high end of what they were hoping. And I think another thing that started out for them that really kind of started this run. Zoom missed a couple of games. You know, and that forced them to actually have to play a little more five out. And I think that opened the door to start this run. And it was funny because I have clipper fans in my life like four of them. You do have to say you do. Now you find a couple Darryl. Not quite, not quite, but I have a few friends. One that makes a point to send me notes constantly about the clippers and things. But, you know, they were worried when zoom was coming up. Hold on. Hold on. What kind of notes? This you have a friend who is spending his time sending you like statistical minutiae about the clippers? No, but like if I say something or I tweet something or anything, I'll get a comment from him of like, no, but what about this or these things or stuff like that? And he was worried. I will say I do have one friend of mine, a dad in town who's a huge net fan, huge enough that once a month or so, shout out Matt. I'll get a text like, hey, would you think it's a raft scam last night? And I'll be like, my God, man, you are in it. Like you might need, you might need to get out of it a little bit. But they were worried when zoom was coming back that they weren't going to play as much five out. Or they would lose this momentum. And I was like, no, when zoom comes, you're just going to get better. And you can always go back to playing five out when you need to. And I think that's been a big part of them just kind of having a little diversity that I think they thought they were going to have at the start of the season. And everybody kind of playing to their level, maybe a bit above at this point. But like we'll get them on track to where they're supposed to be in terms of, you know, they're not going to win 49 games after the start of the season they had. But they're going to be like you said, a mid 40s team. I think they're going to be in the race. I think they're going to be in the race for, you know, that seven eight seed and maybe even the 60 depending how the West kind of plays out with some of these teams. And it is really interesting in LA watching sort of the fall of the Lakers and kind of the rise of the Clippers this season in the way the start of the season went. And the way it's going now. And you're kind of feeling Clipper fans, you know, all seven of them a bit more excited. They're all on the wall. You know, and Laker fans feeling the consternation of how rough the team is look. It's been really impressive watching this team. And you got to give tie a ton of credit because he came out. I think it was depressed conference right after they went six and 21. And he was just like, no, we're going to say the course he was focused. I forget what he was saying. The record needs to be the rest of the way. But we got to be locked into playoff mode almost. And now that they've kind of gone into that, they're, they're, you're seeing them rise up. And it's interesting. But I'll be curious. Zach, as you started this with I will not fall for this again. I'll be curious when we get to April, who will fall for this if this kind of continues with them? Okay. So let's, let's do that then. The two way clock on these guys on Miller and Sanders is ticking. And they're going to have to figure some stuff out about how to keep those guys around, including potentially salary dumping, Chris Paul. That's one thing. Let's just assume that they do that because they need those guys. Derek Jones juniors also injured, right? Like that, you missed some of those games and Derek Jones junior who was a, who was a huge part of their team. And was shooting well enough to be almost a two way kind of player, not two way contractually two way on the court. I don't know what his time table is off the sub. I had a care member, but they could use him. And they still also have big game james. Like, do I trust him in a game six game seven of a meaningful playoff series? I'm sorry. I don't. But their team is very good. And I think there was a point where they were ready. I don't think they were ever going to like sell sell, right? They told teams, if you want Zubat, you got to come with way better than you got to bowl us over because we don't want to trade them. Harden, Kauai, very complicated trade, right? But I think they were honest in the sense of like, they don't really care about the picks that are going to Oklahoma City. That trades ancient history to them. It's a sunk cost, whether they're bad or good, the picks are gone. It doesn't really matter sort of what they are. If you get deals that make sense for your team. Now I'm looking at them on the flip side at that time. It was like, are they the team that's desperate enough to package all their expiring contracts to get Anthony Davis or Trey Young or John Morant? Now I think we've landed somewhere squarely in the middle where one of those expiring contracts is John Collins, who suddenly looks like a really important part of their team. They also have bogged on bogged on of it's $16 million expiring contract. They also have some draft assets that they can trade way out in the future. I'm not sure I would touch those to prop this team up. But if I can turn bogged on of it into a rotation player on a multi-year contract that the other team wants to dump. I have to think about doing that because he's not playing. I could use a little bit of a boost and my cap sheet is so clean after next season that I don't really care about taking on some money as long as it's not a gargantuan $40 million contract. I don't think they're going to do anything nuts but they could do something. Beyond that, what else have you other than Kauai being Kauai? What else do you think has changed in these last 18-20 games for them? I mean, the simple answers they started caring about defense again. I think that's the most important aspect of it. We're a long ways away from the sort of the shirts that Jeff van Gundy had. I forgot about those. The free season. They kind of just like, for God or didn't care about defense in that sense, now you see them and they're hustling defensively. It starts with those young guys that you mentioned. Obviously Kauai is Kauai. We know what he does defensively. But the young guys defensively have added a boost to them and has provided more fight and energy and vigor and they understand like we're going to stay on the court. We got to defend and that's what they're doing. And I think that's really kind of just the starting point of where they're at. And then the other aspect of it and this has been a big problem for them and it still kind of can be in some of these games. It's the turnovers. They started the season. They were, I mean, like the six and 21 run. They were 30th in turn. It's pretty. Freaking last. That ball was fine everywhere. And it was all over the place. And you know, now in this run, it's about 15th. It's league average. It will probably for them. It needs to get even better. But you're seeing progress, right? It's going up and just, you know, low and behold, you don't turn the ball over. You're not giving live ball turnovers. You're allowed to set your defense. You're allowed to play half-force teams after play half-court offense against you. You're in a much better situation than where you're at. They've given up fewer fast breakpoints than where they were at just, you know, during that stretch, right? I compare, I call it the shitty clippers and the good clippers, right? And so like during the shitty clipper run, 17 points, you know, fast breakpoints allowed. You know, now it's at about 14. You know, it's it's points off turnover, I think was was around 20. And now it's it's closer to like 16. Like they're getting those numbers down. And those are the two things. And turnovers affect your defense. And I don't think people fully understand it. Live ball turnovers are death to defense. Because now it's transition. You're not able to get back. You guys, you're in scramble mode. You're in a difficult position. When you can cut down live ball turnovers, your defense has a chance to be set. Your offense obviously gets a possession, gets a chance to get the ball to the rim the way David Adelman was talking about how important it was. That's important for everybody. And I think the then you're able, if one of the ball goes through the hoop, you're able to set the defense. And I think that's an important aspect. The defense is actually mattered. And they're cutting down on their turnovers. The two statistical changes that have happened are turnovers. And that's that's co-I like the way co-I plays. A lot of ice so ball, a lot of mid range jumpers. That's a low turnover style of play. And they've gone from free throw rate on offense average to number one in the league. They're getting to the line a ton. And their free throw rate has gone up what the leagues overall free throw rate has gone down. And on defense, obviously they've been playing way better. Look, this is an old geezer team. They play slow. They're always going to play slow. But I swear, the stats will not show it. At least the stats I like that. I didn't do too deep a dive on it. In their last three or four games, like the Lakers, they ran the Lakers off the floor. And who'd they play on the nets? They smoked the nets. They're appropriately looking for, I'll just call it semi-transition. They're not going to be like a run and gun team. But Hardin is getting the ball up fast. They're looking at a hit ahead. They're playing a little bit early in possessions selectively, which you can do after stops. And Hardin, Hardin looks as quick, twitch, fast as I've seen him in quite in like years, possibly. And he didn't make my all-star roster. He was on my apologies list. I've seen all-star columns and listen to all-star podcasts where he doesn't even get a mention. He's got a real case to make the, I think it's an uphill battle. But if he makes it, I wouldn't, particularly because he's the durable one. He at least plays every game. He's been great. And this is a legit kind of, it's a fun team they got going. And we'll see what they do at the deadline. And they're shooting better from three. And that obviously helps everything. And collisbeen unbelievable, just like absolutely unbelievable. Yeah. Sorry. Let's go to another team across the conference, across the other conference. Do you remember which team selected Shay Gilgis Alexander with the 11th pick in the 2018 NBA draft? It was the Charlotte Hornets. It was the Charlotte Hornets and they traded him to the Clippers for the rights to Miles Bridges and two second round picks. Didn't work out great for the Hornets. However, what is working out great is pretty much everything for the Hornets right now. Another team that ran the Lakers off the floor recently, they are only 18 to 28, Mo. Only 18 to 28. That's good for a solid 12th in the junior varsity conference. However, there are only three games out of the Hawks. And they now have a positive scoring differential for the season. They are plus 24 overall for the season. They are eighth in offense. Overall, the Charlotte Hornets are eighth in offense. With ball, Miller, and Gil Simons favorite player on the floor together, they are plus nine and a half points for 100 possessions. They're starting lineup. Those three guys plus Bridges plus the switchiest hungriest offensive rebounder for an undersized center Musa Diabate is plus 69 total points at 138 minutes. This is like a real thing that's happening. The 55 point win over Utah is inflating their numbers a little bit. So let's just say there are plus zero instead of plus 24. That's a normal blowout win instead of a crazy blowout win. It's very clear something is happening here. There are structural things that Charles Lee has done that are really nice bed rocks to have as you build up from a team. They're first and free throw rate on defense. They do not foul. Now, they don't force any turnovers, but at least you're getting the tradeoff of being sort of a low risk play back defense. Another tradeoff they get from that is their first and defensive rebounding. So if you're going to sacrifice turnovers and aggression, you better nail fouls and defensive rebounding and they do. They don't allow a lot of threes and they don't allow a lot of shots at the rim. In fact, they allowed the fewest corner threes in the entire NBA. The fifth most above the break threes on defense. That's not an accident. When the split is that dramatic, that's a thing that the coaches are stressing and the players are executing. And on offense, they take tons of threes and they get to the rim a lot. All of that is like when the talent catches up to the infrastructure, it could get interesting. And that's happening right now in real time. What are you seeing with this team that's that's most interesting to you short term, medium term, long term? I think just off the bat when you watch their offense, it's really kind of the the movement in the way they get into sets. Lamello gets off the ball quickly. Look, he's always a good passer was always a willing passer, but he gets off it quickly. They have three guys that can initiate offense with between him, Brandon Miller and Con Kandiple. And I think when you're looking at it in that sense, it's a three headed monster in the way the offense is sort of operated. Lamello comes off a ball screen at the same time. You have Brandon Miller coming off of a stagger pin down and then you kick it to him and then he's going to work and it's it's all those different things. Meanwhile, you have Kandiple's movement off ball and and finding the right spots there. And then when he catches, if you run him off the three point line, he can put it down on the floor a little bit and you're getting some some actions there across the board. And then you're finding guys like, you know, Miles Bridges is sort of having a resurgence in that regard. And then, you know, the the Diabate pickup, you know, putting him back into starting lineup, I felt like has completely sort of changed and invigorated the team in terms of the way he's able to attack. And then it's just a fast team and they fly in the way that they play like it's it's incredibly offensive. Like impressive to watch. And I think the stuff we're seeing is like, you know, running pistol action, where you know, Lamello ball can kick it up the con Kandiple and it's either a handoff back to Lamello or he's getting a ball screen from Diabate and and ready to go to work. And at the same time, you got to be hugged up on the weak side because Miller's coming off of a pin down with with Bridges and you're having a whole sorts of different little actions that are going on there. I love everything. Charles Lee has put in place. And to be honest, this all started last year. The way you say it is perfect. Install the infrastructure. The talent level will eventually get to where the infrastructure will begin to show that it's working. And we're beginning to see that. The talent level is rising across the board with this team. And I'm just incredibly impressed with everything that they sort of put into place. And then it's like you said defensively, they're bought in rebounding, not failing. We're going to keep the ball in front of us. We're not going to let you guys get behind us. We're not going to silly fouls reach and think that's going to happen from time to time and and all that. But still, we're going to play solid defensively and not put ourselves at risk a lot of times. And then we're just going to make sure we limit the amount of opportunities you get. And we're going to fly once we get the rebound. Those are the things like just off the bat. I'm watching when I see them. And I'm kind of like, yeah, this is the fun team to watch. This is why Bill had them so high up. I just lead cast rating. And he's denied you the the right. I thought he was blinded by his adoration for conkiniple. But this team is really fun to watch. You throw an Eric Collins just I mean, I can't send that guy sprays this enough. You know, the coaching part is interesting because when you are low in fouls and when you're very good at not failing and getting defensive rebounds and all that, those are sort of bed rocks of a conservative defensive system that was very Mike Boudin-Holzery and Charles Lee is coached center Mike Boudin-Holzer in multiple spots. And you and it almost flirts with like the doc rivers were we're emphasizing defensive rebounding above transition offense. We're going to play super low risk. We're not going to crash the offensive glass at all. But it's almost the best of both because they're getting a lot of the Boudin-Holzer low hanging fruit stuff of free throws not allowed and defensive rebounds and all that. But they're also fourth in offensive rebounding. So there's a there's an aggression level when appropriate and they play fast and they should actually I think they should play faster. I don't think they're playing fast enough. So it's not just well we're going to just play this low risk ultra conservative style across the board. It's picking and choosing sort of the best elements of Charles Lee's coaching experience in his mentors plus what this team should be and like Kinniple ball Miller. Three like sized players right there are they're all more or less wing-ish sized players. Should be theoretically easy for defenses to switch all of their actions. But that's not how it plays out in reality because most likely you're going to have a small player guarding one of those three and a couple other big defenders who they can get switched on to if they're on the actions right. And they run a lot of dynamic stuff between them like Kinniple will be flying along the baseline. Take a total right turn like right angle turn come right up the gutter of the paint. Take a handoff at the top of the key and all of a sudden he's running a pick and roll that's like wait where did he come from? What's happening? And it might be a stagger screen with branded Miller as one of the screeners and Diabate as a second screener and that can and like that confuses the action or if Kinniple is one of the screeners and that kind of action he'll fake a screen and flare out to the three point line all of a sudden the defense is wait I thought we were switching now we're confused now we're and then and then you're dead and I like when they even get Lamello moving off the ball like that I'd like to see them do that more exactly the same way I described with Kinniple empty side picket rolls where he comes up from the corner into a handoff because the less dancing you have Lamello doing probably you want him to do a certain amount of dancing. And by the way one of the things I have loved about some of his recent games in particular that Lakers game is Lamello hunting chances to isolate against slower defenders and leaning into you know what Jake Laravia you know what Luke at Don'tchich I can just blow by you I'm not going to settle for a step by three I'm actually going to blow by you get into the lane and create something from there they're just finding the right sort of mix of actions and I mentioned smaller defenders and bigger defenders and that's where Brandon Miller is getting really interesting to me because he's got that old school Paul Georgie mid range game when he gets smaller defenders on him he doesn't always get all the way to the rim his decision making is still like a half a beat slower than you want it to be but it's it's progressing but he can rise up over your classic six three point guard and just score over them or through them and he's lately like when you get to big guy on the switch like I'll take you out and I'll like I'll dance with you and I'll blow by you and get into the lane he's the guy who I think they need to become like the switch destroyer in both directions and the three of them together it's just it's a really good mix yeah you you can't deny it and I think Miller will get to that right I think you know look his first season was derailed with injuries and things like that I think we're beginning to kind of see the what made him such eye draft pick in the way and they picked him over school and that looks really smart at this point right now and I think you're you're just seeing him kind of come into it and scratch the surface of all this next I think he's going to get into that stuff I think it's just going to take a little bit of time but when you're watching the way he plays now there's a level of calmness to it too and I really kind of just enjoy it and I just love to watch in the three of those guys play like just the trio with them on the court there's so many fun things you can see them do offensively and I'm excited this is a fun group to watch and enjoy in the way that they're playing and he will I'm telling you he will get there's like like in a year or two we're going to be talking about him as just absolutely smothering switches it just takes time right now and it's going to take him some time to develop that a little bit more but even now we're just scratching the surface of what Brandon Miller can really do it's going to be really interesting to see what they do in the next 10 days because they have a lot of assets they have a Dallas pick top two protected next season they have an extra pick this year they have a Miami pick the tarot year pick oh boy uh-huh another extra pick in 2029 and they have Lamello ball most polarizing player in the NBA maybe well top five I think we could probably find other more polarizing players I'm confident in two things they were never going to splurge on like a win now veteran move you know people floated I even flew I even just said theoretically they'd be a really fun Anthony Davis team when Nico got fired they were never going to do anything like that for a player anywhere near that age this is a patient ownership group that since this since they took over Rick shanol and gay plockin and Jeff Peterson is a GM every move has been years down the line just accumulating assets years down the line very little interested like we got we got to make the play it like that hasn't been the M.O. and I don't think that's going to change um I also think they were never going to sell low on the M.O. ball and they're not going to now if you like really bold them over with a huge offer sure they would think about it and obviously everyone has a sort of love hate relationship with Lamello in terms of his decision making shot selection crazy stuff that he does on the floor all that defense comes and goes has been better last couple weeks we've said that before about other two week periods and it's it's backslid into wildness after that so we'll see I think the most likely scenario is they sell on the margins and if they make the play in by accident because milwaki stinks or Atlanta stinks um okay we'll probably lose in the play in a B in the lottery anyway and if we slide a little bit because we trade Colin Sexton for three second round picks and we trade Josh green for I don't know what you you can get for Josh green um like it's all like the the fact that Grant Williams has come back healthy and taken some of t-john salons minutes in some of these games when t-john salon has clearly leveled up as a player and has been a helpful player that to me tells me all I need to know about like hey anyone watching these Grant Williams games it's a couple second round picks he can really help you out right so I would expect him to proceed that way and if they got another bite at the lottery apple I don't think they would mind that that's just my educated guess but this seemed hell a lot of fun man in charlotte's a good NBA city good NBA market good fans cool uniforms and not the cream sickle ones they're wearing now now and then good for the NBA when charlotte is good I also just to kind of just I want them to stay the course right now like this is the team that hey let's make a run for the plan maybe we make it maybe we don't you know take around the margins no problem but I don't I don't want an earth shattering move right now because you're you're seeing what's that you're seeing kind of a foundation of what can be something here and this is like you said it's a fun city when this team is good it's a fun for it's a fun vibe across the board I mean remember the we had the the charlotte the mascot with you go you know caught on fire literally yeah I mean like we just have a fun mascot in that I don't remember him catching fire he's trying to throw a flaming hoop and they never think that's done again I don't think because he caught on fire you know I think that's the the stuff that you see from them I just just stay the course right now because this is going to be the team that we're we're looking at going like you know next season going like this really started last year when they made a push for the plane didn't make it but they were playing valuable games at the end of the season like this can be that team for even next season so just don't tinker too much and and and stay the course because I think you have a hell of a coach in charlesley I think you got a nice young core right now that's really kind of developing you're you're heading in the right direction that's sometimes all I want to see from certain teams um I mean you know how I feel about lamello and how I've always felt about lamello the mellows relationship with the paint and the basket one of the most fraught and interesting in the NBA he doesn't get there enough and other coaches Steve Clifford talked to me about this have tried to get him to keep his dribble alive and like prod the paint a little bit more slowly and patiently sometimes and sometimes he does and then it goes out of style for him this year his rim shots are down but he does look like he's making an effort to get into the paint and when he gets in there I don't really know what's happening in his brain because there are so many possessions where he has like a pretty good layup and he just doesn't want to shoot them sometimes Steve like double clutches and then throws a lob and like just man just just keep going you got a straight line driver you're going to get fouled you're going to get to the rim and when if that ever if that balance ever enters his game just look out he's a really good offensive player all the numbers have always been their offense is way better with him on the floor some of that is because his backups have not been good enough but they shoot much better when he's on the floor all that stuff is true this year I'm just saying okay well let's take one more quick break and then we'll talk about some teams trending in less good directions all right I want to talk about a couple other teams that are perhaps going through less happy times or lando in Minnesota let's start with the magic I mean it's not it's not like bad well they're 23 and 21 solid eighth in the east eighth with a bullet in the in the eastern conference so not bad they've obviously had injuries jalen sugs just came back over the weekend fronze vognor has missed some games after playing in the europe game uh mvognor just came back and on and on a palo bank hero miss time earlier in the season fronze is missed a bunch of time with the ankle stuff so 23 and 20 month you know it's like totally explainable except the welcome they are I don't want to send up any warning flares here mo they're down to 19th and offense tied for 19th and offense slash 20th you know my favorite stat that they haven't been at the top 20 in like 13 seasons since white how it was there and it looked like a lock to break the street book the parade route all that now it's not looking so great and they are 14th and defense they have a minus two point differential for the season they are nine and 12 in their last 21 games it just can't get in any kind of rhythm it's loss win loss loss win loss win loss win they can't win consecutive games god god forbid they win three in a row they have um this bancaro funk hanging over their team that he just hasn't he hasn't been good enough and he hasn't developed in the ways that they would hope he would develop and there's just a lot of interesting stuff here the bancaro fronze fit thing which is still sort of tbd because when they play with sugs and bane and Carter that lineup has been quite good they just haven't played together at all sugs has always heard anthony black has blossomed into a starter level player for sure and by a potential like fringe all star pretty soon if he keeps playing like this which gives them six starters they can't start six players so i'm curious who comes off the bench again is it anthony black i assume it is but at some point they're gonna have to pay anthony black and i just don't think they can play pay anthony black plus fronze a max plus palo a max plus sugs what he's making and you've talked about it a lot like i just don't think i just don't think this team runs enough functional offense under jimal moseley and that's not all jimal moseley's fault but if this team just farts out of the play in or farts out of the first round in the east after trading four first round picks for desmond bane i don't they're not gonna care that they had all these injuries they're gonna look hard at several aspects of their team bancaro and vognor the coach everything but this team it's just funky man i've watched them a lot recently it's just it's just funky it's good for a quarter bad for a quarter good for a night bad for two nights and that's just not injuries aside i get it it's just not it's funky yeah it's one of the more frustrating things when i watch this this group like this is you you're saying it's not bad to me this is bad okay look this is not this is not this is not who they were supposed to be like this is not who this team was supposed eighth is not what they were supposed to be you're doing the opposite of the dentist smith they are who we think we are yeah yeah it's whatever it was and i just think like i'm pretty frustrated watching them because it's it's a variety of things it's trying to figure out the pile of fronstein i still think that can work in in one way shape or form it's going to require creativity from your offense that i just do not see and i get and i get really mad about it because it's they didn't trade for bane right before training camp or right before the season they did it in the offseason why won't you in the lab let's figure out what we can do offensively because i don't see a lot of that stuff and it goes up and down like there there are moments i'm like oh okay that's some nice stuff okay no now there's now we're back to nothing i think that's important to note up and down there are moments where the process is what you would hope it would be there are moments when the process is more difficult than you want it to be because the fundamental reality of fronze and palo is there are more or less the same height and are going to be defended by players the same height who will switch and neither of them is the kind of three point shooter that teams are going to be scared of and in palo's case they're actively inviting him to shoot in fact several recent teams we mentioned how much we like charles leaves work to almost east slow and mempheus is really interesting coast to watch tactically the grisly did it the hornets did it the calves did it the other night teams are taking another step back against the magic and basically just being like we don't even other than bane all of you guys can shoot from 18 feet out we don't care at all we're going under everything Anthony black you're having a great season we're just gonna still let you shoot no matter what it's just not working yeah and it's it's in the sense of just like you knew kind of coming into the season this is still stuff you have to work on so how do we scheme around that how do we work around that if it's not schemeable okay then then now we have to start talking about we need to make a big or shattering trade whether it's fronze or palo and I think we all think it would be palo over fronze and I think you're you're trying to figure out what you're doing in that sense I'm not advocating they should make that trade before anybody gets all I'm just saying like when you're looking at like if we can't figure this stuff out we have to make changes and you made a massive move for you made a win now trade for bane I was running through the streets saying that's exactly what do you want teams to do and organizations to do when they see the moment they go for it and then they did nothing after that and I'm not talking about the for I just don't feel like they've really explored things I'm not seeing a ton of like yeah fronze and palo is a switchable screen cool have Anthony black constantly set screens and then move on with that we'll just talked about how lamello plus cannibal plus miller is very switchable the differences two of those guys are good to great shooters and millers becoming a good shooter and that makes everything harder to guard but they're just running running better stuff well that's the thing they're just when you look at Orlando they're just not running a lot of stuff cool so move the spots run were okay we know they're going to go under screens cool re screen right after that and then the second time when when you're you're coming off of that you're able to probably get downhill more likely in that situation may create more confusion just all you have to do it doesn't have to be our guys can't shoot so we're in trouble and they're just going to go under and we just have to live with that you can fight that in the way you offensively you understand you have a gift you know everybody's going to go under those screens you know what the defense is going to do so plan for it how am I going to get my guys looks how am I going to get my guys opportunities for me they're the most disappointing team because I was and that's my own fault that's my fault I had high expectations for them they had high expectations they're over under was 50 and a half and I took the over like I mean a few weeks ago Zach we talked you know who we thought would be locks to get out of the first round and in the Eastern conference and I said Orlando's one of them for me and I was a little if he but I was like still confident Orlando will come out of the first round now I'm just like there's I just don't see it's going to be a first round exit they're all the way down in the play in tournament like I don't I'm not very enthusiastic I'm a bit frustrated if you can't tell in the way I mean just the other night against Charlotte a their transition defense was not good enough and that's when the magic start to take up take the foot off the pedal on defense you start wondering like this is supposed to be like their whole thing is like we never take the foot off the gas on defense and they did in that game you know like you said hit her miss there are possessions where they're playing with the right purpose where palo screens and rolls hard and makes a play out of that at the basket where they get palo on a switch against a smaller guy and he goes inside out into the post and they play inside out which is my favorite virgin maybe of palo I certainly like it better than the I'm going to dribble up not pass it all and take a 19 footer I hate that version right and then you see them hunting ratchups like that and then you see two straight possessions where lamello ball who they want I get lamello ball was hiding in various places in that game he was hiding on Anthony black which is not a safe place to hide anymore he was hiding on Noah Penda who actually think has been a nice little helpful player for them off the bench but he was stuck on bane uh two straight possessions and the magic are just like palo's dribbling around searching for stuff to do I'm like you've been trying to hunt that guy for like every fourth possession and it's been difficult because he's been on your least threatening players he's on Desmond Bane and Desmond Bane just stands in the corner doing nothing palo dribbles into nothing nothing happens like what's going on like where is the purpose to this possession and again two possessions later they'll run something with purpose and um and power um I also think palo I feel a little empathy for him because he hears all the noise he's been open about hearing all the noise the organization definitely hears all the noise he watched them thrive without him with fronds plus the three guards line up of of of sugs black and bane which has been very good and he came back and he has since played like someone who doesn't quite know when and how to assert himself the same way he used to and it's sometimes overly deferential and his decision making is just again like like i talked about the Brandon Miller he palo's a pretty good passer but sometimes his decision making of just like when he catches when the offense is in motion and the ball gets to him which is good like I've now we've created advantage and the ball has got to our allegedly best offensive player there are too many times when it's enough of a pause that the defense is able to reset itself and a pass that was there or a drive that was there disappears um this is why the beginning of the season when the honest writing was on the wall i was like my favorite fake trade for yonis is palo bane caro plus whatever they have left over which ain't much i think you can trade one first round pick plus something else for yonis because you need a player who's gonna help you win now and you sort of sell high on palo which is not possible anymore but it was poison pilled cap rule he's poison pilled but anyway i just i'm watching this team another nice thing i want to say another nice thing chase Richardson scouts some shit to his game he's got a little creative change of pace stuff he's a good passer and yeah i don't know i don't know what they're gonna they can't do much at the deadline because i don't think they're ready to make these kind of seismic decisions yet the one thing they could do is get out of the tax by dumping ties jones who's that been it just can't make a shot like it's been a disaster um any other thoughts on the magic and how does it disappointed you are yeah i just think you know there's still time there but it's seeing what we've seen over 40 to 50 games i can't expect and be crazy to think there's gonna be a massive change in terms of them finding of offensive philosophy i'm just disappointed in that but in that aspect like i don't understand there's i wanted to see them come into the season with an understanding of this is how we're gonna attack on offense and it didn't seem like they changed anything and you know they're and then like you said the defense when the defense goes bad for a team that that was your your backbone you're really in trouble so um yeah we'll see how it kind of plays out but this is this is scary times i think for that well i still want to see them with sugs in this version of anthony black and palo and france healthy which is why i've thought like is there a world in which they can steal eight minutes a game playing those five players playing palo at center because like when dole card juniors had a pretty good year but it's not like a huge stretch to say you could experiment with that and and that starting five has been good i have called jalen sugs the skeleton key of unlocking the best version of this team and i believe that there's truth to that he just played enough so i do want to see that before i just sort of get you know whatever about it but okay last team uh the timbre wolves uh as at right after i proclaimed them a legit championship contender they have lost five games in a row the circumstances are as such they lost a tough game to use in without ant i can i can live with that they lost that next night on a back-to-back to the spurs on the road when ant had 55 go bear was out i can live with that they blew an eighteen point lead against you to i can't live with that they lost at home to chicago uh four to five just absolutely baffling turnovers classic wolves in the last five minutes of that game and then they lost yesterday at golden state uh with all the circumstances in Minneapolis um the killings and the horror there i i i think everyone with the warriors everyone with the wolves that i've talked to that's just like we just had that game just what we weren't there they weren't there mentally like i can i can get by we can all get by that when people have asked me even before the warriors game to be clear what's going on with the wolves what have you seen from the wolves i'm just like there's nothing that's like shouting at me they just have kind of it's like death by a thousand paper cuts trickle trickle trickle trickle they just their offense has been a little less dynamic like there's a little too much randal holding the ball and not enough ant taken roll and let's get the blender moving when they double me up top which he's been very diligent about doing this year the turnovers have just been like even by minutes soda standards just baffling in a couple of of these games and then defensively there's just been just hiccups of like oh we messed up that switch oh i was late to close out on that shooter because i thought he was rotating there it just has struck me as a team there's not one thing that i can point to say like that guy's not playing well that rotation's not working that's whatever it's just a team that just collectively isn't a little bit of a funk which happens in the middle of the season which happens when what's going on around you is happening which happens when there's a trade that line coming and there people know like there there could be a move here um it also happens when a team kind of conceives of themselves is like yeah you know we two straight conference finals like wake us up no what's the conference you can't there's no wake us up nobody's too good for the regular season maybe the thunder are too good for the regular season but that's it and if there is one common thread here it's that the bones high land uh slump has happened and when there's a bones highland slump they're just getting nothing off the bench other than Nasrid and i think that's the reason i've said all season like i'll be shocked if they don't make a trade to upgrade their playmaking off the bench i'm not off of them i think they're a really dangerous team i think they could could actually like make the finals particularly if they make a small trade but teams go through funks this just feels like a funk to me i mean this is definitely a funk and of course what's going on in minnesota is affecting them as it as it would anybody else right like this is stuff you're seeing on a daily basis and it's it's very tough i think finch even said like we didn't even didn't feel right to play the game when they when they postponed it from Saturday to sunday and and things like that i think on the basketball side of it and where i'm concerned most about this team they're finally the start of this season they couldn't win close games they were blowing clutch games over and over again and then they started to and now we're back at where they lose the uta games the clutch game they lose um look you're right san Antonio Houston those are excusable losses chicago they're up five going into the game clutch win against yeah and you lose that game and that's where i you know you look at it and then when you go look at their offense their offensive rating is 116 point something in clutch minutes which is five minutes games uh five or fewer it's 110 so it's six points worse in that instance and it's really becomes difficult and then i go and i go back and watch i went this morning and and and watch those clutch games again to just kind of refresh myself and i just sat through the whole time asking myself who can make ants job easier because everybody's gonna double everybody's gonna get the ball out of his hands and then go into an immediate denial how can they make ants jobs easier after that you know and and they get the ball to randall and randall can play and make a little bit but it's it's not something i'm all that enthused about and it's not something that i'm gonna go running about you know don't take and do a little bit of stuff you know my connellese on and off and you know at this point with where he's at in his career it's hard to expect that stuff uh uh mcdangles is having a good year but it's not in the point where we're playing making who can make ants job easier i keep returning to that question and i don't they don't have anybody so then it becomes very difficult for ant he's got to come in take some really tough shots in the Utah game comes in dribble pull up you they're down eight at that point and he needed to to get a quick three drills it but it's like okay we're gonna just bank on hopefully he's gonna be able to make those and there will be games where he'll do that that duel between him and wimpy at the end of that clutch game was a lot of fun but like thy return always to that question and i think when connellese was going and was right you had that a little bit at least he can get other guys going and get other guys shots after they double ant i don't feel like they have that maybe a little bit from randall but not enough and i think when you get down to close games it's gonna be really difficult for them and i think that's where i'm most concerned for them yeah i mean the connellego bear empty side pick and roll was always kind of their security blanket when we're going haywire default to that and my connellese is just old means been in league for 19 years and clearly is not the same guy that's totally to be expected and i don't think this is a case of like we're saving him for the playoffs i think they would love to get more production out of him now taren shin and junior who i like has been hurt jell and carc is a good defensive player doesn't have a lot of juice offensive dilly ham's obviously falling out of the rotation and there's gonna be this revisiting of the nas over Alexander and Alexander walker discussion i i didn't mind it then i thought i thought it was totally defensible to keep nas over Alexander walker that's why you draft rob dilly ham and other perimeter players and bones bones had a nice two three weeks for them and we'll have another nice two three weeks for them because that's just the nature of his game i played the right way and you know they only have three rotation big guys not counting baron j who's been who was interesting when they brought him off the bench a couple games and it gives them sort of flexibility of if moves come that have to send you know one of those big guys out they have a certain ballast behind them so i i didn't mind it i like tender walkers been awesome for the hawks he would pee if you put him on this team and took nas read off it probably are a little better and a little more stable but very thin up front they'd have to find another sort of rotation big i think it trades coming i to me they're just just get a little funky now and and like ants gonna get doubled as you mentioned i've actually kind of liked the offense when ant is double that i've liked his decision making for the most part i like when they get the ball flying around the core like i don't i don't think that's been like a weak spot for them i think they have enough juice but it is their margins like jade mcdandell's head of stinker yesterday when he has a stinker it's just they need everyone to be really on point around ant i guess yeah and it becomes difficult and ant has made the right decisions off of that and and play making it and and and you know our buddy john kris is ski has written about it and and it's been good stuff and ant talking about yeah i got to get off the ball quickly or air yeah i he'll acknowledge i made a bad decision i love that he actually is aware of that in that stuff but it's after that it's it's an even one the ball flies but it's like it's i need my best player to get the ball back in his hands after it's we saw it in the Oklahoma city series where they basically just denied the hell out of him so much they denied him in this submission right like they just ended up everybody he he he give up the ball and then it was too hard after that and it was hard to the thunder in the way that they play defensively in the denials and everything not everybody can do that but the teams that can can really cause a problem for them offensively because then they can't get ant bet the ball back and that's who needs to have the ball at the end of games more than anybody else on that team i still love this team as is i mean obviously i have them a tier behind Oklahoma city and Denver who have in their own tier in the west but to be there right there with anybody else um should be but you can't mess around there's seventh now um tied with phoenix phoenix as the tiebreaker you know i think they should pass phoenix i think they should pass the lakers they're now three games in the lost column behind the rockets at fourth just can be interesting to see how all this conference shakes out and certainly how the next ten days shake out mode to kill tell people where they can find you because i keep i say it every time sky worked for the spurs and the clippers he's a real dude if you want to know what happened in the game like y1 team one y1 team lost what strategies they tried why they tried them follow mo mo tell them where they can follow you well you can follow me on all the socials mo d a k h i l underscore nba uh check out offside the startup i'm working with that's where i do a lot more videos and power rankings i break down and a game stuff i broke down brooklyn losing in double over time to the nets the other day over the weekend which was a crazy game lot of stuff there we have a ton of great creators jacin conceptioan cofee aboo we have zack harper michelle beetle a lot of fun stuff there make sure you're checking out the double dribble podcast with jared duban and myself where we kind of go through some fun stuff and and what we're seeing in the nba and catch me on nba tv every few weekends mo that was that was clean that was a good promo right there mo to kill you're the best thank you for your time bud we'll talk soon i'm sure there's always something going on oh thank you for having me zack i love coming on it's time for another edition of zacks insights to mediocrity we don't have mike terriko we don't really have the theme song but we have me and my mediocre self it's snowed it's snowed a foot here in Connecticut and a couple days before the snowstorm two very enterprising young men from the holocal high school came with a flyer advertising their snow suvelling services and i thought i like the idea of having young people do this work for me i'm old man shuffling snow hurts her it's my back hurts my legs it hurts my arms i don't want to do that would i love to pay other people to do it yes i would but then i thought you know if i really reached that stage of manhood where i can't just do this ritual of shoveling snow i think i can do it and i don't i don't want to just pay for i want to see my i want my child to see me do some manual labor like sudden examples i you know what we're gonna do the snow by ourselves now i will say i am mediocre enough or maybe smart enough to know that a foot of snow i don't want to deal with the foot of snow so if i have to shovel three different times during the day i'm gonna shovel three different times during the day three inches four inches at a time and man it was piling up so fast that i almost had to shovel again right after shoveling but i shoveled and we shoveled three times cleared all we'll solve it out and it worked that method was smart and my less of a man for doing it that way i don't care it was easier zzer my arms zzer on my legs but here's another tip my wife and i split the first shovel for about 10 10 30 in the morning maybe i did the second one maybe 12 30 one o'clock and then i took a little little power nap and while i was doing the power that my wife took it upon herself she's very fit she's very strong to go out and do the third shovel i woke up i looked outside she's like halfway done with the driveway and i'm like oh honey like i can i can yeah here's what you got to do you gotta offer you got to offer so i can come out i can come out and do it i can come out and help you i would like you can stop right now i'll do the rest key offer it's got to be sincere if she says yes gotta be ready to put on your snow gear and do it she shouts back you know no i good i like this it's good it's good exercise it's good i'm good and now here's the key you gotta offer a second time i said are you sure are you sure is a great question because it puts her on the spot like was that sincere are you sure about that and it makes you look like a good guy for offering when you really don't want to do it and you really want to take the i've got it from her and she said no i'm sure i got it so i got out of the the third snow shovel which leads me to my other tip for mediocrity related to this i'm guilty of hiring people to do tasks that i should do myself much to my wife's sugar and not all the time i don't have permission to do it all the time and i realize not everyone is in a position where you can pay $60 to someone on task rabbit to put together your daughter's toddler bed which is something i did when my daughter was a toddler you know why because that's $60 hey that guy got $60 easy income for him he knows how to do this took him 15 minutes would have taken us 90 minutes would have been minimum one fight one step that we messed up when we've got to tear the whole thing apart and started over it's just it's just not worth it and when we moved into our house we bought an outdoor furniture set and it was you know you got to put it all together and and of course i was like task rabbit task rabbit works into suburbs too and my wife is like you know what we're gonna we're gonna do it ourselves we're gonna settings now for our kid we're gonna do it ourselves and we did it ourselves we did it it's a nice sunny day took about three hours and she said to me at the end don't you feel better about yourself that we did this for ourselves instead of paying some one a hundred and fifty dollars to do it or whatever and i said no i don't i feel like i wasted my entire afternoon putting together outdoor furniture and i wish i hadn't done that that that is mediocre it's also it's also a little bit smart because the likelihood of me making a mistake much infinitely higher than a handyman or someone who actually knows how to do it example our garage door was broken uh maybe eight months ago during my sabbatical a year ago during my sabbatical and i was like you know what i'm gonna fix this we it needs to be fixed i need to fix it i start playing around with it i opened the wiring box i'm fiddling with switches all of a sudden our garage door is halfway down and slanted like one half is up here one half is down here clearly not like something horrible has happened to the point that i now have to call the garage door guys and pay them x amount of money to undo the damage your mediocre person is done so the lesson is if it's affordable and you can do it pay someone to do stuff like that for you including shoveling snow though i didn't do it to stump that is this week's insight to mediocrity all right that's it for today's initial we back later this week who knows what will happen in the NBA between now and then thanks to the great mode to kill for his time thanks to mike billy and johnathan on production thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the zack losho we'll see you soon must be 21 or over in president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 and over in president dc can tuck you or while mcgamblin problem call 1 800 gambler visit rg dash help calm call one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven of visit ccpg.org slash chat in kinetic it or is it md gambling help.org in marlin hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org or call 800 327 5050 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 1877 8 hope and lie or text hope and lie in new york